>The High Lords of Terra announces that Guilliman is a traitor

>>51835539

Why would they do this?
At least explain this before baiting people into shitty flame thread.

>>51835554
Because they're afraid of losing their power. When The Last Wall protocol was enacted, the High Lords flipped their shit and had to be reigned in. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the High Lords who pushed Cawl away from finishing Guilliman's life support armor all those thousands of years ago.

>>51835539
>Marneus, something more cheerful
And so Guilliman enters Terra undisturbed

>>51835539

OP, this is 40k. Sneezing in the fucking wrong place can trigger a small civil war. Any damn thing can get the Imperium fighting itself. That's par for the course. The answer is OF COURSE.

>>51835577
What is the Last Wall protocol?

>>51837596
where all Imperial fists and sucessors join up back to legion strength

>>51835539

Probably. Unless there is some irrefutable evidence of his treason to put forward, the Ultramarines and a good chunk of their successors AT MINIMUM will revolt.

Ultramar and its little empire are no small part of the Imperium. And a lot of the other space marine chapters are going to be in a weird spot too, because Guillman literally wrote the book they are all brainwashed into following. Given a choice between the the High Lords of Terra and the mythological primarch, loyal servant of the emperor? A lot of marines are going to be drawn to the primarch.

>>51835539
Yeah, a really short one, since the Ultima segmentum will declare for Guilliman and the rest of the Imperium will be a 50/50 split between Ecclesiarchy fanatics led by retards who've been driving the Imperium into the ground for the last 10,000 years and those loyal to the Emperor's last loyal son who also happens to be the greatest of Primarchs when it comes to large scale logistics and empire management..

Aren't something like 80% of extant marine chapters Ultramarines descendants?

If they try to excommunicate Guilliman, they'll have a couple of legions worth of marines out for their heads, not even taking into account all the mortals who'd consider a primarch to trump the high lords on the imperium's power pyramid.

>>51835539
Nah. If that happened, then all Space Marine Chapters, even those who don't follow the Codex and dislike Guilliman, would flip their shit and go straight for Terra because no uppity High Lords will declare a loyalist Primarch a traitor (even if some non-Ultramarines would dislike him).

And even then they cannot do it since Guilliman is the dude that established the whole HL thing in the first place, not to mention being a Primarch of a loyalist Chapter and a 1st Founding one that took the name of the original Ultramarines Legion as their own. Because if they did this, then it would result in the above thing with the Chapters flipping their shit and going straight for Terra.

And don't get me started on the fact that the Custodes also have something to say.

>>51838311
Even the most insane Space Marines would always choose Roboute over the High Lords...except for the Minotaurs.

Hoping Roboute will whoop Moloc's Termie ass at one point.

>>51838409
>large scale logistics and empire management..

And here Guilliman would literally conquer the other half of the Imperium. As much as a uptight guy he is and somewhat of a control freak, he knows how to Empire-building and how to make sure supply routes are 100% functioning and what stratagems are right for the job.

Now if we only at least had Vulkan and Corax to further back him up...

>>51835539
Yeah. Primarchs are worshiped as demi-gods remember, Index Astartes note that Dorn was upset that the Imperium had begun to worship the Primarchs almost as much as the Emperor.

It's like the Vatican declaring Jesus a heretic.

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>>51838446
And then don't forget the other non-Ultramarine Chapters. Even they wouldn't tolerate some literal nobodies (from their P.O.V) doing some stupid shit to the guy who's the gene-father of one of the 1st Founding Chapters.

Hell, all marines sans those that are literally lapdogs of the High Lords would march on Terra to have a "chat" with the uppity Lords.

Hell, even the Space Wolves would go with Guilliman if it means to bash some High Lord skulls.

>>51839522
>High Lords
>Being rational

Maybe one or two, but not all. If you consider the Assassinorum Master one of the two rational ones then it would be Beheading 2.0.

>>51839522
I'd say it would be more like calling Paul a heretic. Either way, the amount of chuckle fuckery it would take to get that to pass in earnest would be downright mind-boggling.

>>51840377
As in the High Lords debating over if to declare Rowboat a heretic?

Before they even pass it, he will open the doors to the senatorum while being escorted by a bunch of Honour Guards, Fallen and Grey Knights.

>>51835539
>The High Lords of Terra announces that Guilliman is a traitor and heretic
>Everyone ignores them
>The Captain General kills them all when he finds out what they got up to during the meeting he missed

>>51835539

Dude, if that happens the Captain of the Custodes will stroll in and kill all the High Lords with zero effort.

These guys actually remember the Primarchs and the Emperor's original goals.

They hate getting involved but for something as urgent as this they will.

>>51840791
Is Valdor still alive?

>>51835539
>The High Lords of Terra announces
Do they high lords do press conferences?

>>51835577
>The Last Wall protocol

I'm laughing because I Googled it and Lexicanum lists three sources: all BL garbage.

>>51841279

The custodes' head honcho back during the Age of Apostasy was called Excelsor. Now this was in 2e SoB codex before Valdor was invented but unless they retcon it there is a way for him to get killed or disappear at some point.

>>51839596
Yeah, there's no way the other First Founding Chapters won't join the Ultras. All the first founding ones tend to back each other up on stupid shit like that, since otherwise they could well end up getting it done to them.

It's politics.

>>51840791
>zero effort
What about the Assassinorium High Lord?

>>51844918
He could be killed by a single marine with a Bolt pistol.

>>51844885
Not only politics, but also somewhat a attack on Astartes independence.

Space Marines answer only to Big E himself and will not be the servants of some bunch of nobodies that rarely get even the simplest of jobs done right. The Minotaurs are an exception here since they are the attack dogs of the High Lords created to police Space Marines, yet probably they at best will not interfere with any side (as in they won't attack Guilliman since he's a Primarch and if they did this then they'd surely be wiped out by the Ultras and their successors, but they also won't go up against their bosses).

>>51835539

Yes, Ultima Segmentum and the hundreds of Ultramarines successor Chapters alone would fight for him

>>51840546
>escorted by a bunch of Honour Guards, Fallen and Grey Knights

I want to see some art of this.

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>mfw The Lion turns / reveals he was heretic all along
>mfw my Dark Angels turn heretic / reveal they were heretics all along

I swear to God... I... fuck... please JESUS GOD NO

>>51848482
>lion
>heretic
this meme needs to die
yes there was some sketchy things in dark angels history
the lion's loyalty is not one of them
he once made a changer of ways give up trying to change him
he was the one who had to come and pick up guilliman's ass and get him to terra
he was literally the first son and known to be literally the most loyal of any of the primarchs.

>>51848591

I am well aware of all of this.

I am also aware of an army of Fallen marching at Guilliman's side which makes me nervous as fuck.

I have no idea what sort of TWEEST, they're gonna pull on us.

>>51835539
The ultramarines and all their successor chapters would side with him, as would most if not all of the worlds in the ultima segmentum.

It would be a fucking disaster.

>>51848657
>>51848270
>>51838311

Not to mention the Custodes as well.

>>51848657
If I was a GW marketing drone, I would have all non-trademarkeable factions in WH40k declare war on Rowboat Girlyman only to be utterly defeated and never mentioned again. From then on, the Imperium will be represented only by Adeptus Astartes and no other factions. All being absorbed into being slaves.

>>51848337
It won't be a simple opening of the doors.

Guilliman will kick the doors and simply take the seat of Lord Commander of The Imperium and have an eye on every single High Lord.

Then there will be a shitload of things to fix to better prepare the Imperium for the worst.

>>51848482
>>51848591
>>51848609
>Cypher sneaks to Big E.
>Kneels before him and presents the Lion's Sword.
>Emps fixes the blade and thus all Fallen are FORGIVEN.
>Sneaks then to The Rock.
>Finds Lion who was comatose for 10K years and puts his blade on the 1st Legion's Primarch.
>Lion wakes up.
>Lion and Cypher present themselves to the rest of the DA.
>Proceeds to give them a lengthy speech on the 10K years of fuck ups they did (actually commences on the Angels of Absolution for not being slaves to their past and actually get shit done).
>Dark Angels now instead of hunting the Fallen are now aiding the Imperials in many of the most critical warzones in the 41st...I means 42nd Millennium.

>>51848756
You should honestly write for GW

>>51848721
>>51840791

>The High Lords deploy the Assassinorum en-masse to deal with the issue
>Custodes vs. Assassinorum war on Terra

I'd pay to see it.

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>>51835539
Is Guillilman the Trump of 40k?

>>51848591
>>51848482
If not Lion, who will be the loyalist Primarch who turns traitor?
It better not be Khan, Vulkan or Corax.

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>>51848865

No

>>51848763
Nah, if I did so then they'd fire me on my first day for suggesting to revive Squats as a faction. Even after suggesting what to make grimdark certain elements of theirs.

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>>51848865

>>51844974
Just like Abaddon

>>51848896
Already Happened. Is Called Horus Heresy.

Tyranids at their gates
Abaddon smashed through Cadia and is making his way towards Terra.

This is not the time for disunity. The High Lords cannot allow their authority to be challenged or question in these dire times. Guilliman will be targetted by assassins and the Sisters of Silence. His death is mandatory to save the Imperium.

>>51848482
It won't happen. It'd piss off too many players if they did it.
No one wants to go from playing a loyalist chapter, with allies and all their jazz, to a CSM one.
Even if they keep all the basic SM units etc (I guess you'd argue they got all the stuff while loyal) it'd fuck with allies etc.

>>51849061
They can always turn Lion and the high ranks into traitors leaving the vast majority of troops loyal. Cypher returns and becomes chapter master. You'll only lose Lion and other figures that don't have miniatures anyway

>>51849058
>Sisters of silence
>42nd millennium

>>51849058
>Sisters of Silence
But they are dead Jim. The Beast finished them off and nobody knows if the Black Ships do have some of those ladies.

>killing Guilliman
He made the High Lords thing, he can disband them or take complete control as Lord Commander of The Imperium. The post that was originally his to start with.

On the other hand how Rowboat would react to Nids and Crons? Not to mention Tau...

>>51848896
Wasn't that bullshit?
I haven't read the Magnus book, so don't know for sure, but there are a lot of claims, and I'm yet to see anything that actually shows it isn't bait.

>>51849083
Basically this. All the fallen are now the Dark Angels. Lion and his cohorts are now the fallen.

>>51849100
>But they are dead Jim.

Ehem...
https://regimental-standard.com/2016/11/02/a-silent-sisterhood/

>>51849187
So they actually survived? I doubt that the Sisters would comply with the High Lords on taking on Gorillaman and his allies.

>>51849100
>But they are dead Jim. The Beast finished them off and nobody knows if the Black Ships do have some of those ladies.

Actually, they are back. Wrath of Magnus ends with the High Lords officially unleashing the Sisters of Silence. Turns out they were hiding all this time.

>>51849675
>Turns out they were hiding all this time.
>For 10K years.

They must be good at hide and seek.

>>51849689
They were under the command of Anna Frankist

>>51848756
He will crush the current lord comander by sitting on him?

>>51849739
Heh.

>>51849786
This being Guilliman, yeah, because there is a 99.9999% probability that the current Lord Commander of The Imperium is a puppet.

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>>51849786
>BobbyG will never crush you with his flaming sword.

>>51835577
>>51838005
And people bitch about the Dark Angels legion building...

>>51849903
If you ask friendly, you might get an imperial fisting from calgar

>>51849904
Technically you could say that they are a legion at this point with all those Chapters of theirs.

Just have Lion step in and snap the finger.

>>51850052
Nah, he'll Cast Fist.

>>51839369
Minotaurs included?

>>51851691
oops didn't see the whole post

>>51851691
>>51851709
The Minotaurs would have a big problem here as mentioned a couple of posts earlier.

They'd probably not intervene at all, neither supporting Guilliman nor the High Lords here. If they attacked Guilliman, then the Ultras and all other Chapters (Ultramarine successors and non-Ultramarines by that extension) would simply murder them (sure, under Moloc they are Marine killers and always operate at full Chapter strength, but even they would be raped to death by 23 full-strength Chapters, especially after what they did to the Interceptors), and if they joined Guilliman then they'd loose the whole sweet bits they were getting from that one secret Forge World (including freshly produced Contemptor Dreadnoughts).

So the Minotaurs will rather back off and make up a story like that they were forced to fight a spontaneous Necron or Tyranid incursion.

>>51840377
Paul WAS a false apostle though

>>51852458
Guilliman isn't Paul.

The Traitor Primarchs are the Pauls (sans Magnus who didn't asked for it).

>>51848865

I don't remember Rowboat peeing on people and acting like a bitch.

>>51848896
>It better not be Khan, Vulkan or Corax.
It's going to be one of them because they have a negligent fanbase. Probably the Khan because no one cares about the White Scars.

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>>51848591
Methinks the heretic doth protest too much

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>>51856888
Triple 8's confirm. Lion is a heretic

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>>51856888
AHHHH
I knew it was referenced that the fallen where the original loyalists and that the circle has been covering up the past treachery
but
this just proves it
if "loyal" primarch's start getting outed and a second division happens the empire might not be able to withstand it
truly the future is dark indeed

>>51858184
I love this if the Lion goes traitor we can laugh and say we knew it all along and if he goes loyal we can say he was the traitor that was foreseen to go good

>>51848482
Here's an alternative:
>The Lion was loyal all along! (or turned loyal)
>but the upper echelons of the Dark Angels weren't
>chapter schism
>or you could reverse it
Bam. Loyalist and traitor Dark Angels.

I would honestly like to see the 1k Sons either return to being loyalists, or go rogue and flip EVERYONE the finger. Or even Magnus discovers the Blood Ravens who were 1k Sons stock the entire time. Realizing that his sons survived (in a way) he tearfully reveals the truth of their primarchtage and with promises of GIFTS and KNOWLEDGE (and maybe a few dumptruck loads of psychic persuasion) turns them to his side. The 1k Sons rise again.
Plus Alpha Legion MAKING UP THEIR FUCKING MIND.

>>51860377
laughingagentsmith.jpg

Both the Fabricator-General and the Paternova are High Lords. The Tech-Marines swear oaths to Mars as well as their Chapters. There will undoubtedly be some conflict there.

The Imperium is extra fucked when it comes to tech. Good luck to Rowboat and his empire building skills if he doesn't have goddamn roads to build his empire on. At the Paternova's word no Navigator house but the renegades would serve Guilliman and no Tech-Priests would tend to the technology.

Guilliman is fucked if that happens. His 'empire' would be about as impressive as the Tau's without the very framework the Imperium functions on supporting him.

>>51860567

Oh yeah, and don't forget the Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. Good luck maintaining a stellar empire without any means of communicating planet to planet. All Astropaths are bound on Terra and owe their loyalty to Terra.

Remember, a full half of all the Primarchs fell to the powers of Chaos. Only one High Lord has ever perverted the power of his station and that was Vandire. He never fell to Chaos! Primarchs tore the Imperium apart. The High Lords inherited the right to rule the Imperium and have loyally served their duty for 10,000 years. Much longer than the Primarchs ever managed before they fucked up.

High Lords for life. Rowboat a shit.

>>51860653
t. inquisitorial dog of the high lords
you fuckers don't even follow the creed of the emperor.

>>51835539
Do you really think that the other imperial instutions have the strenght to fight ultramar and all the XIII legion sucessor?

>>51860653
>All Astropaths are bound on Terra and owe their loyalty to Terra.

That was true even during the Great Crusade...

>>51861235
at some point the sheer quantity of the loyal guardsmen regiments plus whatever mechanicum and space marines that follow the decree would probably emerge victorious

but GW wouldn't have their smurfs suffer such a defeat, god forbid they throw a bone to the other factions for once

>>51860567
>At the Paternova's word no Navigator house but the renegades would serve Guilliman
He will use safe webway from his new friends
>and no Tech-Priests would tend to the technology.
He makes Cawl General Fabricator.

>>51848915
Space dwarves have plenty of potential.

Hell they live in underground, youd have a race of terrestrials who learn to live in the warp, blockaded by daemons by massive castles built entirely on hate and contempt which no god lays domain on.

They stride into battle with ancient weapons made from the condensened warp, masters that would make the greatest warpsmiths of the iron warriors hang their head in dornian shame.

They have dynasties that are old when many gods were young and are utterly detatched from the world, arriving only as harbingers to collect the dying ashes of the lesser races.

>>51862389
Given the astropaths litterally are bound in soul the the Holy Emperor they, above all, will be loyal.

So the Astra telepathica would likely side with whoever was actually right.

>>51862910
>Guilliman suceeds where the Emperor spent years failing.
Fuck off ward.

As per the topic you'll get a very bloody war. It'll be likely some guardsmens and inquisitors will be divided on the subject but well, its not like primarchs are above corruption, they are infact very explicitely not. Plus Guilli's record isnt that squeaky. Plus since his gaunlets are unknown artifacts looted from a chaos champion its very likely to be tainted...

However all adeptus astartes are almost universely divorced from humanity with the idea they are superior to them. So almost all chapters will side with the primarch just because he's the primarch. Even if Guilliman was Khan this would happen.

All of ultramar would likely side with Guilli too. However the Guard themselves would either side with their Lord on Terra or be reminded by their commissars to do so.

But the most important thing that happens is that, after untold millions are lost in this civil war and chaos looms ever closer, these abandoned and shattered shards of the Empire turn to the only group that offers then shelter and defense against this war. The Tau.

Greater Good always wins.

>>51840642
It's surely something the Kitten would do.

>>51863209
>>Guilliman suceeds where the Emperor spent years failing.
Unlike his father he is on good terms with eldar.

>>51863302
That implies the Eldar would assist humans out of something like friendship. If "it was the right thing to do" existed in 40k a lot of obvious issues would have been resolved.

>>51835539
I hope something like this happens. Mabye not a war, but clear animosity, wich leads to deep devide in Imperium. I think that 99% of chapters would side with Gulliman.

>>51835539
The Emperor is a god.

Guiliman his son.

Guiliman is a demigod.

THe high lords are men.

In the face of a true son of the God Emperor, to declaire him heretic is to commit the ultimate apostacy and treason. It is to claim one is infact a better judge of godkin than the god that hand wrought them out of clay.

The Arch heretics of Terra will burn, their inferiors whose hands wring with anticipation of their seat will oust them.

The flames of the mob will do the rest.

Do you think Guilliman will take advantage of his 'divine' status for political purposes?

Or will he go on a secular autistic rant against everyone who says God-Emperor?

Will Greyfax be nice to him?

>>51863956
>Will Greyfax be nice to him?
I am more concerned of Celestine and Yvraine hitting on him.

>>51863962
>Yvraine

Keep that xenos slut away from my space dad.

>>51863026
Indeed. One of the things, apart of the team back then not knowing what to do with them, why the Squats were squatted was that they weren't sufficiently Grimdark...oh, and something, something copyrights.

Maybe one day they'll bring them back as a faction since they were mentioned as not dead and acknowledged by the Imperium as abhumans. Who knows? And if they do, then probably under a different name.

BUT FIRST FOR THE LOVE OF THE EMPEROR HAVE THEM FLESH OUT THE DEMIURG!

>>51863956
The only thing he'll probably do is force the High Lords to get shit done and punish them if they act like a bunch of incompetent morons as they were for 10K years.

So when is the book coming out?

Roboute Rebellion is catchy

>>51848482
My brotha, I fucking feel you.
It's like rooting for OJ at this point.

>>51848482
Loyalty is its own reward, brother.

I hope they don't fuck with other primarchs' backgrounds.

I am hoping for that Ghost Rider Ferrus Manus with Legion of the Damned tho.

>>51853390
who would Alpharius be?

>>51860567
muh roads

>>51851826
>implying Moloc isn't Valdor

or some shit like that

Anyway, if Guilliman's identity is confirmed beyond doubt, he automatically has the highest military authority in the Imperium. And given how Imperium is religious now, the Heresy-era Terran Court's supreme power isn't much in comparison with an alive Primarch.

>>51848721
The Custodes would do precisely dick all until the Emperor's body was threatened.

>>51864518
Anonymous

>>51863209
weebs fuck off

>>51857028
Triple 8's are a clear sign of heresy, you mean. Propaganda!

>>51864602
this
>memetic chaos bullshit

>>51835539
You have a general.

Use it.

>>51864640
A general is a general, here is a specific question you nimbus.

>>51849100
>On the other hand how Rowboat would react to Nids and Crons? Not to mention Tau...

He would probably realise tau are an upcoming threat that need to be squashed asap before they gain more ground and tech

Necrons and Nids are pretty unlike anything he has seen before though and on a much bigger scale of threat than anything they've faced (save the horus heresy)

>>51860457
Blood Ravens will never have huge impact in 40k. I think gee dubs left them to relic for them to do as pleased. And something major as reving that BR are TS will not be revealed in video game.

>>51864708
nimbus 2000?

>>51865261
It won't, but the hints will be strengthened.

>>51865434
I wanted a general nimbus, but a 2000 is acceptable.

>>51865015
Sotha had a Necrontyr tomb and Girlyman assigned a whole company to protect it which eventually became the Scythes of the Emperor.

Trazyn also claims that he is friends with the Primarch.

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>>51849447

>>51865550
Well the combination of Blank + Superior combat skills than those of the Sisters of Battle do make them lethal, but they really wouldn't be fighting Guilliman.

Fighting a loyalist Primarch would be horribly counter-productive.

>>51849904
Seems fair, the ultras rule their own mini-empire

>>51865595
I think its implied in the text that Sisters of Silence, or other Blanks in general, can be used to permanently kill a Daemon Primarch.

>>51865015
Now I want to know how he would react after hearing about the Tau that they are next to Ultramar.

But seriously, he'd spend sleepless nights analyzing the Nids and Crons.

>>51865468
This is the time of truth. I really do hope Roboute and Tranzyn know each other.

>>51865603
Ultras loopholed the whole thing.

Sure, Macragge is one planet and marines are allowed to have one planet under direct rule. It happens that Macragge is the center of the Realm of Ultramar, thus by that extension they have a shitload of planets under their control with having Macragge as their homeworld.

>>51865653
That's what grinds my gears about the ultras.

The codex partly tries to limit the power of the legions by splitting them into chapters, but we'll just control our own massive realm. Anyone who disagrees is a traitor.

>>51865649
Has it ever be cleared what happens to a bona fide demon if you get him into a blank's bubble?

Does he cease existing, is he merely banned?

>>51865649
>can be used to permanently kill a Daemon Primarch

Implied, because killing even a average Greater Daemon/Daemon Prince would require the following:
>Knowledge of its True Name and speaking it out flawlessly
>A bunch of OPPLZNERF Psykers with Titan-sized wills and Alpha Plus levels
>The right place that has some psychic properties
>OP artifacts that would be used by aforementioned Psykers
>A SHITTON OF THE EMPEROR'S FORTUNE AND HOPING IT'S CRAZY ENOUGH TO WORK

Blanks and Pariahs can greatly weaken a Greater Daemon/Daemon Prince, while a Black Pariah is essentially a psychic black hole, but the last one that was around disappeared. That said Blanks/Pariahs would weaken them, but not kill them permanently. They are more like anti-psychic banhammers in human form to any other psyker or warp entity.

>>51865679
I honestly think that Guilliman left these loopholes intentionally not only for Ultras.

It was proven that Space Marines can do a better job than most Planetary Governors.

Give a Chapter a planet and they will make it work flawlessly.

Problem is when you have a dork like Lugft Huron/Huron Blackheart going pants-on-heads-retarded. Then again he simply seized the place. If he just paid his geneseed tithe and didn't blatantly start legion building then none of this bullshit would've happened.

>>51848482
As a dark angels player, im actually terrified this is going to be memed.

>>51865706

Their connection to the warp is cut off, making them much weaker. In theory, if you left them in the null field long enough they would starve to death and die on their own, but that takes a while.

The important bit is that if they can't reach the warp, they don't return to it when they die. They can't. Kill a demon in a null field, and they just... die. For real.

>>51865958
...and hence, kill a demon primarch in a null field bubble and his way of cheating death doesn't work. Unless he's become a perpetual. Thanks for the clarification.

>>51865736
Pariahs erase people's souls if they use their powers correctly. See the assassination of the astropath High Lord in the Beast series.

>>51865958
>>51866151
You mistaking things. The Pariah aura weakens the daemons connection to real space and banishes it to the Warp.

Trained Pariahs with the right tools can however destroy Warp being forever by erasing their essences from existence.

>>51867478
>Trained Pariahs with the right tools can however destroy Warp being forever by erasing their essences from existence.
...And cue the Sisters of Silence. They are the ones with training and tools to do it. In 30k they were just witchhunters. I think in 40k their (upcoming) role has changed somewhat.

>>51867461
Daemon's dont have souls.

>>51867461
Don't forget that one fluff text about a Farseer getting killed by a Culexus so hard her soul ceased to exist.

Then again this would be much more preferable over being the plaything/snack of a certain thirsty chaos god.

Also Daemons have no souls. They are pure warp-stuff made manifest and given a form.

>>51868107
And conversely, at least according to Eisenhorn, if a null tries to mess with a Demon that's too big for it, they just sort of fucking die. They cannot handle that much Warp fuckery and their brain has an aneurysm. At best. I imagine a weak enough one would possibly literally explode or something.

Which is pretty metal, not gonna lie.

>>51867546
>30K had them as Witchhunters
>40K will have them do triple as Witchhunters, Daemonhunters and general anti-psi support force for fighting psyker-heavy armies (betting they'll have abilities that will force Tyranids to take LD tests or else they go out of control even when around a Warrior or other synapse Nid)

>>51868177
Agreed. Also are there any ways to make Blanks/Pariahs stronger anti-psychic-wise without giving them Culexus gear? Or is their powers set the moment they are born?

>>51852458
>Paul was a false apostle
I know it's not related but according to the old meme of "you don't even need another board", mind giving me some sources, info, or articles on that?

>>51868247
Not him, but check out this

https://www.amazon.com/Mythmaker-Paul-Invention-Christianity/dp/0760707871/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487871354&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Hyam+Maccoby+the+problem+with+paul


tl;dr, Paul's "biography" given in Acts and various pieces of his epistles makes no sense. He claims to be a devout Pharisee scholar before seeing the light and becoming Christian with the Road to Damascus vision. However, he betrays an incredibly bad understanding of contemporary Judean theology (for instance, he doesn't seem to realize that a Passover sacrifice has nothing to do with forgiveness of sin, and that bulls are the preferred sin offering). He gives no evidence that he knows Hebrew, as his quotations from the OT are almost universally from the Septuagint translation, which contemporary Pharisees rejected and thought was shit, even in places where it wouldn't be theologically meaningful. But most importantly, he claims to have been aligned with a Sadducee High Priest doing his persecutions, which a Pharisee wouldn't have recognized as being spiritually valid. (Acts also claims that he was given permission to persecute in Damascus, which is another can of worms).


Furthermore, that while statements made by Jesus can pretty easily be fitted into a Pharisee-Essene syncretic position, assuming the statements in the Gospels are accurate and representative statements of Jesus. However, even relatively primitive early Christianity, 1st and 2nd century stuff, has a whole lot of resurrective and very contemporary mystery cult notions, a suffering deity sacrificed to redeem his followers being the most prominent part. Paul, the guy in contact with the Gentile community as opposed to the largely Judaic James group, seems the logical vehicle for such idea diffusion.

>>51860567
>the paternova
A blob of mutated flesh that sits somewhere and powers the sight of all navigators, which are filthy filthy mutants, through blood magic. Is still alive because the Emps told people to stop killing of that specific kind of mutant because they were useful.

>goes against high lords
They can't do nuthing because that would incapacitate everything and everyone except chaos and nids
>goes against Guilliman
Navigators, if needed at all, loose the imperial protection that was theirs in the end and either get rekt, exterminated or become a slave race
If Guilliman starts using the web way and showing people navigators are optional, he's going to go against him though.

I think theyre just going to continue being the Jews they are, operating within the Imperium, only breeding amongst themselves, trying not to get overly involved and then do fishy trade and have many riches and secrets.

>>51863962
>concerned
You mean "aroused" I think

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What if the Primarch who will return to the Imperium and the Primarch who will turn to Chaos are the lost Primarchs?

>>51868399
Woah literally nothing, Who Cares and Mr Nobody will return with their Chapers The Wholios and Nothingtoseehere, what everybody was asking

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>>51868433
Savage

>>51868331
You can NOT enslave navigators. Emperor would if he could. The thing is the Navigators hold the biggest card in the entire deck which is that all space travel requires them that isn't xenos.

You put the fate of trillions of people in the hands of people who have no reason to actually want you to live and your going to see a lot of battleships get throne into the warp as the navigators become chaos pirates and the Imperium falls.

Guilliman probbably doesnt even KNOW about the webway, its not like Emps was a open person. And even if he did there is no reason to believe he could magically finish it besides just "He's guilliman and thus perfect".


Any move against the navigators is a death sentence for everyone involved and even the most imbred imbecile on the high council is completely aware of it. Same with the fabricator general.

If Guilliman goes against the Imperium he either gets quickly toasted or the Empire goes from "Presiding force of the galaxy" to "Weak eldars". Full stop.

>>51868610
Emperor could not enslave navigators because they were absolutely indispensable for warp travel, yes absolutely. Back then.
I think that Emps would have done away with navigators as a whole if he had gotten his webway stuff running.

Now, Guilliman gets waken up by eldar shenanigans. I THINK they will tell him how they got there. If Guilliman manages to have an access and a working knowledge of it (doubtful) navigators know their days are going to get less nice in the future.
Imagine you have a monopoly on a certain product and someone brings a better one on the market all at the sudden. You'd be pissed.

>>51868610
>Guilliman probbably doesnt even KNOW about the webway, its not like Emps was a open person. And even if he did there is no reason to believe he could magically finish it besides just "He's guilliman and thus perfect".
He would ask guests politely how craftworlders, commorites and harlequins appeared on his homeland, Emperor was trying to bruteforce his way into it without knowing anything, Roboute has people who can help him.

There's a lot of overplaying the prestige and power of the High Lords on this thread, and their unity in times of extreme crisis. The Beast Arises series clearly shows how quickly the Twelve can effectively lose control when disaster strikes and infighting and finger pointing begins, and the Imperium has only grown more dysfunctional since M32.

>but muh headcanon carries more weight than BL trash

>>51868776
>He would ask guests politely how craftworlders, commorites and harlequins appeared on his homeland

THIS

Why are people assuming Guilliman wouldn't be able to assess the situation, gather information, and adapt? Isn't that what he's known for?

>>51868955
Your implying Eldar will let them.

They have spent 10k years being dicks who hide the secrets of technology that would really have been useful.

They aren't suddenly going to change that and be besties.

>>51868931
The book was stupid but thats unrelated.

This isnt a unrelenting army of inexplicable super orks. This is one guy.

The arrival of Guilliman isn't that threatening and if the High lords decide to be hostile to him the imperium is not going to end up improving for it.

1 Primarch is not greater then the whole of the Imperium of Man's forces, not even one primarch plus the adeptus astartes.

>>51868973
He could promise them to wipe out Belial IV and get fifth cronesword.

>>51848957
This is something i've never understood. It's a meme and it has its moments, but seriously. A massive galactic empire beset by multiple apocalypse scenarios manages to stave off complete and utter destruction and hold itself together and still hold the basic tenants the emperor held dear together.

>>51869337
Not that anon, but the Imperium of Man could've done much more if the people in command had this thing called COMPETENCE.

While you will find people of various levels of competence, most of the people in charge are not as competent as they are supposed to be, or are downright so incompetent that you'd want to shoot a Inquisitor and not give a flying damn about what happens to you because you'd rather want to die a cruel and unusual way instead of living in a mockery of what Big E wanted to create and which is run by people that shouldn't be in a position of power. ESPECIALLY IF THIS IS THE HIGH LORDS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Also what person would you like as Lord Commander of The Imperial Guard? Governor General Vance MOTHERFUCKING Stubbs (alternatively General "GRIT INCARNATE" Sturnn), or the likes of HERMAN "I DON'T GIVE A SHIT AT ALL ABOUT ARMAGEDDON" VON STRAB?

>>51868177

There's a Horus Heresy short story in which Sisters of Silence are transformed into talking psykers with a hivemind in a ship that gets lost in the warp.

>>51869015
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Beheading#Aftermath

50 chapters, about 5% of them all, was enough to scare the High Lords into complying with the Lord of Macragge.

Guilliman would get a lot more than 50.

It would never even come to an Imperium-vs-Ultras scenario. Mars would likely be neutral and the vast majority of the Imperium's forces could not be pulled to Terra or every battlefront against Orks, Chaos, Tyranids and Necrons or every minor race would collapse and the Imperium would cease to exist.

>>51869950
>It would never even come to an Imperium-vs-Ultras scenario.

This whole thread is basically an antiUltra fantasy where Guilliman acts like a complete idiot and gets crushed by High Lords who can do no wrong, but only in this case against Guilliman.

>>51869888
Probably they were given powerful souls...

>>51869888
What.

>>51870071
Really this thread is very pro Ultry in my mind.

>>51869950
>50 chapters, about 5% of them all, was enough to scare the High Lords into complying with the Lord of Macragge.
Anon, I think you are underestimating this story.
It's not that 5% of chapters showed up, it's that having so many chapter masters in one place, at one time, is fucking UNHEARD OF in the annals of the Imperium since the Heresy.
Due to the nature of how every chapter is engaged in or preparing to muster for a war, having so many of their leaders, including many first founding chapters, in a single place is outrageous in scope.

>>51870071
>This whole thread is basically an antiUltra fantasy where Guilliman acts like a complete idiot and gets crushed by High Lords who can do no wrong, but only in this case against Guilliman.

HAHAHAHA...no.

This thread is very pro-Guilliman since as much as a control freak and as tight as he was, he did care about people, his Legion and was overall a good person (except when he was an arse towards other arses).

Also the fact that he is a pro at empire building and logistics makes him a better choice over the High Lords of Terra. Especially when you analyze the fail to win ratio of theirs.

>>51843613
BL is canon [*]

>>51869888

>Horus Heresy short story
>Black Library

LOL

just no

>>51872921
>just no

>In utter denial over BL being canon
>unreservedly accepting shit tier GW 40k End Times storyline

>>51835539
If this happens would the Fabricator General join in this or would the Mechanicus just hide on mars until this all blows over?