How will we handle the mass exodus of Yugioh players to MTG following

>>51773218
What happened?

>>51773218
Wew will this replace DEF on every card?
DEF always kind of sucked as a mechanic

>>51773318

The Zones Pointed at by Link Markers Can be Used to Bring Out Extra Deck Monsters
Although Extra Deck Monsters can only be Summoned to the Extra Monster Zone Normally, if you have a Link Monster in the Extra Monster Zone, the Zones pointed at by their Link Markers can be used to Summon Extra Deck Monsters! So if you get out a Link Summon quickly, you can bring out Fusion, Synchro, and Xyz Monsters in succession. Of course, you can Summon another Link Monster in one of these Zones, so if you play your cards right, you can fill your entire Main Monster Zone with Extra Deck Monsters! The new metagame will require careful consideration of where to place monsters!

google any part of the post above for the full source

>>51773218
can someone who can read moonrunes translate so that we plebs can actually know what's going on?

>>51773318
Probably the most all-encompassing change to the ruleset since the game's beginnings. There are retailers threatening to stop stocking the game less than a day after the reveal.

Yu-Gi-Oh! Vrains Rule Changes


The first change, which will seem relatively minor once we're done here, is the ABOLISHMENT OF PENDULUM ZONES. Instead, Pendulum Monsters can be activated in the left- and right-most Spell and Trap Zones, with them being treated as Pendulum Zones only when a Pendulum Monster (as a spell) is in them.
There are two new zones on the playfield, the EXTRA ZONES. There are two on the board situated between each player's 2nd and 4th Monster Zone, and are initally not owned by either player. The first player to summon a monster from the Extra Deck (that's Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, or something new we'll get to) places it in one of these Zones, and the other then belongs to their opponent. With an exception we'll get to, YOU CAN ONLY SPECIAL SUMMON EXTRA DECK MONSTERS IN THESE EXTRA ZONES, meaning each player (initally) can only play one such monster at a time.
The fourth Extra Deck monster I alluded to is the LINK MONSTER, a dark blue card with no level or defense, instead having a Link Number. (Because they have no defense stat, they cannot be in defense position, or face-down.) They are summoned by tributing a number of monsters that fit a condition listed on the card equal to their Link Number, with another Link Monster counting for an amount of monsters equal to its Link Number. They are also the aforementioned exception to the limitation on Extra Deck summoning. Pictured above is Decode Talker, a Link Monster. Notice the arrows around the card picture. SPACES POINTED TO BY THE LIT ARROWS CAN BE FILLED WITH EXTRA DECK MONSTERS. This is a double-edged sword, notice the arrow pointing towards the opponent. Yes, this means positioning matters again.

>>51773318
>>51773402
Forgot the most important part


The Newly Created Extra Monster Zone
>You can only use one of them!<

When the Duel begins, neither Extra Monster Zone is considered to belong to a specific player. When a player Special Summons a monster to one of them, that Zone then becomes treated as part of that player’s field, and the other then becomes treated as the other player’s field. The tactics of a Duel will change drastically depending on who can grab an Extra Monster Zone first! An Extra Deck Monster can only be Summoned to the Extra Monster Zone! But if you Summon a Link Monster to one of the Extra Monster Zone first, you can utilize it to its max potential!

*Extra Deck Monsters, like Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, and Link, cannot be Summnoned to the Main Monster Zone, beware!


Essentially extra deck spam has been nerfed and the secondary market has been fucked.

>>51773408

You can only summon ONE fusion/sychro/xyz monster, in ONE specific new zone that is your sixth monster zone. The only way to do more extra deck summoning is to send monsters to the graveyard to summon a "link" monster, and that lets you summon extra deck monsters to other spaces, but only spaces that the link monster is pointing at. A link monster has 1-8 arrows and they point to different directions.

Basically every archetype that relied on multiple fusions/etc is dead and some monsters that have existed for years can't be summoned anymore without buying new cards. Shooting quasar dragon and stuff is not possible to summon the "normal" way anymore.

TL;DR: They errata'd every single fusion-like monster so they don't work anymore. Buy new cards, or don't play the game.

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>>51773402
>>51773427
>>51773435

>>51773632
this, I only played this game when it was first in North America, slowly drifting away from it once fusions were becoming common. I have no fucking clue what is happening at all

>>51773218
the actual new rules
>Extra deck monster cards(Fusion, synchro, xyz, and Link)can only be summoned (from the extra deck) to the new extra monster zone, or a linked main monster zone.
>Pendulum zones are now combined with the two outer Spell and trap zones, and are only treated as pendulum zone when a pendulum card is in that zone
>Synchro, xyz, fusion, monsters summoned by the effect of another card like monster reborn, or Cattle Call are played in the main monster zone like always.
>face up pendulum monsters in the extra deck can be summoned like always as well

>>51773738
they essentially nerfed every thing since the GX era

>>51773998
Technically even GX-era decks like Heroes, Cyber Dragons and Gladiator Beasts are also partially nerfed by the new rules changes.

Technically nerfs aren't the problem; it's that even in casual play, over a decades' worth of decks no longer even function under the new rules. It'd be like if MTG suddenly ruled that you could only tap a certain number of lands per turn.

>>51773982
its really not that complicated when you don't try to explain the new monster type at the same time

just like pendulum wasn't that complicated when someone who knew what they were talking about explained it

>>51774043
GX era decks and older barely even know this is a thing since they were lucky to get more than one extra deck summon at a time and could just sac and revive like always

>>51773427
What in the hell...

>>51773427
But why...

>>51774140
So every player is forced to shell out $200 on new Links monsters to be able to play their decks.

I'm quitting this garbage game.

>>51774126
>>51774140
see
>>51773982

>tfw never got into Yu-Gi-Oh because I thought the anime was stupid
>tfw the Yu-Gi-Oh club at my college is gonna have a shitfest
This is why I never played with you Wesley

>>51774174
all Ritual decks will be virtually un changed

>>51774266
There are currently 0 viable ritual decks.

>>51774282
not anymore

>>51773218
Sound great, a good fuck you to all the faggot's who've been hoarding rank 4's. And finally no one will wipe about pendulums since they're basically trash

>>51774043
Most gx era decks focused on a single OP fusion at a time.

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Well, at least Exodia is still playable right guys?

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Hey Yugioh, what's up? We haven't chatted for a while. How is life in the big three treating you? I figured we could take a minute to catch u...

OH MY GOD what happened? Oh no, not like this. Did konami do this to you? You don't deserve this.

>>51773218
How can anyone play this game is beyond me, l'd say it's the webshit but the artwork is terrible.

>>51774282
Ritual mons should be included in the extra deck, always should have.

>>51774445
Anyone who has ever played a card that wasn't one of the 4 base yellow/orange/green/pink is a degenerate and doesn't truely care about the game.

>Fusions replace Effect Monsters
>Synchros replace Fusions
>XYZs replace Synchros
>Pendulums replace XYZs
>Links replace Pendulums

>>51774895
Those last two things and that first thing didn't happen at all.

And fusions replacing synchros is sort of iffy when few used Fusions in the first place.

So let me see if I understand this after not playing YGO for a few years.

Extra monsters such as Synchro/XYZ/Fusion can only be summoned into one new slot, which kills off decks that rely on summoning these cards?

And you can use the new Link monsters to add more summon slots for a limited form of replicating these decks as they used to be?

>implying the YGO audience won't be moving to Vanguard instead

>>51773632
Yugioh has an 'extra deck' (read: second hand) of 15 monster cards.
You can only play those cards in special ways, but always have them "in hand".
Also, those cards are really really strong.

The rule change is:
Instead of having 5 monsters, you get 6 monsters but only one can be from your extra deck.
There's also a new card type that lets you spend a monster slot to convert a DIFFERENT monster slot into another slot for extra deck monsters.


No idea how pendulum work, but they used to have their own zone.
Now, you need to spend a spell or trap slot on them.

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>>51773402
>>51773427
>>51773435
>>51773543
I just read all this bullshit and I have no idea what is going on

>>51774997
Vanguard is underrated desu

It should also never be played competitively

>>51775434
We call it Wangtard here at my LGS.

The YGO players are mostly just nerdy teenage asians and blacks.

The Vanguard players are the social outcast asians and whites. Any time there's more than 8 wangtard players at the LGS, nobody else wants to be there due to the heavy body odour, high-pitched screeching and yelling.

Fortunately YGO and Vanguard has been banned from my LGS because their fucking judges (or whatever you call their tournament organisers) got caught stealing.

>>51774997
People play Vangaurd?

>>51775373
Attempted YGO to MTG translation (I don't speak native YGO, go easy on me)

In YGO you get a second mini deck which has 15 creatures. You don't draw from it, it's like a second hand. These creatures all had to be played in some special way, not just hardcasted. The simplest one IIRC is combining two monsters, sort of like Brisela and that one giant eldrazi town thing. These creatures tended to be OP as fuck.

The new rule says that both players may only ever have a combined total of two of these creatures on the field at the same time, unless they play a a new special kind of creature that lets you play more special creatures.

TL;DR: Cheating Emrakul, Blightsteel Colossus, Platinum Angel, Ali from Cairo, and Elesh Norn at the same time on turn 1 is no longer possible.

>>51774976
Yes,

Basically every deck that relied on the extra deck is merged, also all competitive players must pay a link tax or else quit altogether.

>>51775689
*murdered

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>2018-1
>using an extra deck
It's like you nerds want to lose

>>51775666
Not always. The creatures are strong relative to low mana creatures, but comparable to high mana creatures.

>>51775550

It's having a tough time in the US due to cultural differences and shitty tournament management, but it's very much still being played in the US.

I really enjoy the gameplay of vanguard. Yea, triggers could have been implemented in a more elegant and less sacky fashion, but vanguard does a lot of things right compared to other card games.

* next to zero resource screw
* Next to zero bricking
* 30 or so supported deck types
* Fairly tame when it comes to broken-ness

I think that vanguard just has a presentation problem. Most players spend ten seconds reading the rules, go "lol trigger RNG." and then dismiss it. Then they go back to their own pet games that have much worse kinds of random screwing, but those things are accepted like the weather.

>>51775960
Vanguard has a shit, generic art style thats boring to look at and screams at everyone who sees you playing it "this guy masturbates to hentai"

This is a fucking massive rule change, holy fuck. Honestly it's good that they're slowing the game down though, currently if you're not about to win on turn 2 then it's over anyway.
I will say this though - instead of completely revamping the core rules and making many hundreds of cards that have existed for years completely unviable without the new link support, why not just make a new game?

>>51776013
tbf when I see guys playing any collectable card game I assume they masturbate to hentai

Imagine it like this.

A new smaller deck of cards is released. It's 15 cards big, and there are new creatures and new ways of summoning them.

All of the creatures rest in this deck. The deck cannot be drawn from and creatures can only be brought out from it via special conditions.

For the strongest one, you have to cast a new type of spell. There are some generic ones, some for different mana types and some for specific monsters. One might read "Send 2 creatures from you field or hand to the graveyard to summon X". Another might read "Exile creatures from your graveyard or field to summon X", or "If you have 10 or less life and your opponent controls a creature, send creatures from your library to the graveyard as materials to summon X."

These creatures are all-around strong monsters. The very strongest require specific (named) creatures, some might require something simple like "One Goblin and One Red Creature", or perhaps "One Legendary Creature and One Creature". For the weakest, it might even be "Two black creatures."

Next, there's a new keyword on certain creatures. If one of your creatures has that keyword, you can send it and another creature you control to the graveyard to bring forth another creature from this "extra" deck. Fewer decks can run this, but eventually staple goodstuff creatures with that keyword are printed, ensuring many decks can run it.

Finally, there's a creature that requires two creatures of the same mana cost, and instead of tapping to use abilities, it removes one of those creatures as material.

Everyone gets used to these new methods. Some run decks based around a specific one, others go for decks that run all of them at once, others don't really use them but can go into them for utility, and some decks get bonuses if their opponent has such creatures.

For a time, everything is fine.

Then they tell everyone aside from the last two groups to suck their dick, eat shit, new mechanics now, that old shit you bought is worthless.

>>51776052
savage

I love this change. I usually never summoned more than one extra deck monster at a time anyway. Also I'm excited for card prices to tank.

>>51776013
Vanguard at my FLGS (and sort of my region) has a serious problem with how the players carry themselves.

I'm no chad, but card games are a social thing, and playing sleeves with massive anime tiddies on them is not attractive to people considering the game.

>>51776195
Hopefully the expensive Nekroz tank...I've been wanting to collect them so bad. Got them all except for Valk, Brionac, and Sophia(who's cheap as dick).

>>51776233
At my FLGS, the Vanguard players are all very well kept, sociable and friendly. Easily got the most welcoming community.

Eeeeexcept for the massive anime tiddies sleeves, which get so explicit I wonder if they count against obscenity laws.

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>>51776268
The artwork is hit or miss. With over two-dozen clans and different styles, you have a super wide range of quality. I personally enjoy the cards that are goofy or have JRPG boss look to them.

My vanguard locals USED to be really nice, but some drama involving the largest LGS in the area hit every TCG community hard, and vanguard was collateral damage.

>>51776233
aren't vanguard cards like triple the thickness of regular CCG cards? Do they have special ultra wide sleeves?

>>51776372
They fit in yugioh-size sleeves.

Vanguard stock is really thick and sturdy. This makes them not very flexible, so you have to mash shuffle. It also makes them durable. I've had yugioh cards in a sleeve get creases over time just from the air resistance of placing them on the table from hand multiple times.

I going to assume that the players that don't quit outright are gonna split the game in two: pre-link and post-link. That seems pretty fair, even if Konami stop supporting pre-link it'd keep the core players relatively happy with their own banlist and stuff.

All you guys are welcome to Vanguard. Just don't play weeb clans and behave like an autist and everyone will have a good time.

>>51776438
gotcha, that's what I remember when I bought a booster box cause I was interested. It's kinda neat that the cards feel so weighty but it feels wrong that you can't bridge shuffle them

>>51776488
Vanguard is such a dead fucking game at my LGS that they put it in the corner of the shop alongside the deckboxes, dice, and sleeves

>>51774043
Actually I think Glad Beasts are untouched cause they can always Tag their fusions out. The good ones anyway.
But
RIP DDDs
RIP HEROs
RIP Ghostricks (The new monsters can't be facedown)
RIP Any combo deck in recent memory.
Who else is REALLY looking forward to more formats of unchallenged Kozmos?

>>51776692
RIP synchrons
RIP blackwings
RIP sabers

>but anon, those decks aren't metagame.

Yea, but at least the rules of the game never retconned them out of existence before.

>>51776772
Sabers being ruined hurts my heart the most, Anon.
I still have my secret Emmers and ultimate Dark Souls from waaaay back then.
Right after Rescue Cat was getting an errata too.

>>51776692
>tfw Ritual Beasts, Yang Zings, Lightsworns were my favorite Archetypes.

At least I still have U.A., and Gishkis...

>>51773218
I will never ever do this for economic reasons but holy shit did it ever make me consider it.
I'm almost ok with it in a way because of how it prevents swarming.

>>51776817
We need a moment of silence for Madolche and Evilswarm.
Evilswarm may make one monster and sit on it but these new rules make that one monster useless.
At least in the current format they could catch the odd Blue-Eyes, DDD, and Triple Omega bullshit player off guard.

>>51773998
I'm pretty jazzed about this actually, this has 0 effect on most of my decks. The only one that it even remotely effects negatively is my Skull Servant deck.

>>51776023
Now it'll be "if you're not set up to link summon on turn 2 then it's game over"

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Hold up. Now, I may be looking too deep into something that isn't there, but consider the following:

Pendulum Monsters are sent to the top of the extra deck when they would be sent from the field to the graveyard. They can be brought back into the Main Monster Zones via Pendulum Summoning. This is how they've always worked. Now, only Extra Deck Monsters can be summoned into the Extra Monster Zones. Because Pendulum Monsters reside in the Extra Deck after destruction, are they then treated as Extra Deck Monsters? If so, can we Pendulum Summon Pendulum Monsters into the Extra Monster Zone?

Has Konami just accidentally made it so we can Pendulum Summon six Monsters at once?

>>51777113
Only if the other five are in your hand.

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>>51773218
Hi :^)

>>51777126
>5 monsters in my hand
QUICK
SOMEONE CALL MONKEYBOARD, TURTLE AND LIZARDRAW
THEY'VE GOT SHIT TO DO

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>>51777126
>We can only Pendulum Summon Extra Deck Pendulum Monsters into Extra Monster Zones and linked Monster Zones

>>51777190
RIP Amorphages.
They weren't even that good to begin with. This is just mean.

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>>51777126
Pendulum Link Monsters when?

>>51776023
>why not just make a new game?
Easer to make money off an already existing franchise.

>>51777159
This post gives me a realization.
Since the format will be slower, (at least until the absolutely busted shit they release in the second pack) imagine how salty your opponent will be when you Greydle away their Link monster and use it to summon your own Extra deck shit.

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>>51777159
After all these years...

>>51776692
ABC/VW/XYZ are dead (not that they ever mattered.

>>51773218
This is making me want to play Yu-Gi-Oh again. OTK wars will not be missed.

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>>51773218
>even more generic requirements than Xyz
Evil Thorn Simi-limit when?

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So if my monster's Link Marker points to a Main Monster Zone in my opponent's side of the field, can they Extra Deck Summon to that zone? If so, that's actually a pretty smart way to balance them.

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>>51777248
>Konami makes Pendulum Link Monsters
>Link Markers still work, even from the Pendulum Zone

>>51777547
Konami. I'll suck you to completion and refuse to buy Kojima's new game if you make D/D Pendulum Link monsters like this.

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>>51777526
>Be card pictured
>With tear filled eyes you gaze to the heavens.
>"Finally."
>"Its my time to shine."

>>51773218
I really like that they're finally making it so the location of cards is important beyond capping how many cards players can play. This is what Pendulum Monsters should have been.

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>>51777686
Gotta love the secondary market.

>>51774615

Purple fusions were in the game since day 1 man

>>51778017
And people who played them were degenerate

>>51774282
>What are Cyber Angels?

>>51778017
People always dissing and forgetting the rituals.

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>>51773218
TOPKEK

it's time to finally bring out those decks that don't need the extra deck, or ones that don't heavily rely on them.

>>51778078
Good thing they are the only fancy Monsters that went unnerfed with these changed. Maybe they'll finally see some usage again.

Am I the only one who is actually more interested in how this will work out, solely because I'm tired of seeing XYZ staples everywhere and I really like boss monster type decks?

I play XX-Sabers, can I do anything with this?

>>51778177
>Core Chimail (like Chimera Core Chainmail) gets turned to Koa'ki Meiru

FUCK YOU KONAMI OF AMERICA I HATE YOU SO FUCKING GODDAMN MUCH YOU MIDRIFF CENSORING BOOB SHRINKING FAGLORDS

>>51777159
What happens if you steal their Link creature? Would it invalidate the extra deck creature and remove it from the field or something?

>>51778256
it can potentially help summoning hyunlei even more safer

yeah, it probably has potential, though it still needs new cards

>>51773435
Soo, you can only control one extra deck monster and are forced to buy link monster now?

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>>51778252
>I really like boss monster type decks
>That's a nice boss monster you got there.

>>51778333
To be fair, you're just replacing one boss monster with another (technically)
It's just not the one I had in mind

>>51778375
Now that I think of it. Kaijus as a whole kind of invalidate these new cards completely and totally.
The formats will be nothing but decks filled with Kaijus to kill the Link monsters before they can be useful.

>>51778252
It's especially interesting because now players will have to either give up their Extra Monster Zone for their best cards, or try to defend their Link Monsters to keep their best cards around. I suppose that's why Link Monsters can essentially replace each other when being summoned.

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>>51773435
>Special Summoning in general got hard nerfed to justify another type of card
You really can't make this shit up. I gave up on Yugioh right as XYZs were coming out because I didn't want to spend the money to play.

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Well?

>>51778557
This is a good thing though; Special Summoning has power-creeped so hard to the point where the meta revolves around one-turn victories. This counters that power-creep and makes the game more strategic overall.

>>51778618
No, it just makes it slightly harder to get a Link-5 monster out onto the field once one comes out and then we do everything over again.

>all of my favorite decks involved either sitting on a lone dude, or wacky shenanigans with the maindeck
>they lose nothing from this
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YESSSSSSSS
Too bad toolbox decks will now just fish out one specific me-killing silver bullet from extra instead of overextending hard enough for me to exploit it.

>>51778618
This went too far in the opposite direction though.
Innocent decks that were only in the realm of locals were absolutely murdered by this and Kozmos were completely unaffected by this.

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>tfw no YGO rpg

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>Link Spider
>EARTH Cybers-Type Link Effect Monster
>ATK 1000
>LINK 1
>Links: Down
>Materials: 1 Normal Monster
>(1) Once per turn: You can Special Summon 1 Level {???} or lower Normal Monster to one of this card’s Linked Zones.
I honestly cannot tell if this is worth giving up one of my Extra Deck slots or not.

>>51778602
They'll just errata it to not include the Link zone.

>>51778687
Well, you might as well if you are gonna use that new Spiral stuff.

>>51778687
>it's not even an insect
fucking hell they have like 4 extra options that aren't archetype specific

>>51778618
i wonder what will happen to certain cards than needed them in order to be useful, like T.G Hyper Librarian

>>51778653
You can use Link Monsters in Link Summons and they'll be treated as multiple cards, so it's actually not all that hard to get higher Link Number cards out onto the field.

>>51778768
LOL FUK U
-Love, Konami

>>51778804
>-Love, Konami
Silly Anon, Konami doesn't love.

>>51778804
yeah, as always, more cards will more likely be dead

>>51778768
I would honestly be shocked if they don't add Spell Cards and/or Effect Monster Cards that can pseudo-link in some way, like being restricted to Fusion Monsters or something.

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Ojamas Tier Zero?

>>51778834
>Continuous Spell that makes every Monster Zone an Extra Monster Zone by paying X000 LP
It'll come out. And then get banned, and the mimicked, and then its mimic will get banned...

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>>51778834
>Continuous Trap Card that prevents every Main Monster Zone in the same column from acting as an Extra Monster Zone

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>>51778761
Who needs Insects when you can have Cybers?

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>>51779004
>>51779004
Wait, what? Doesn't this do nothing?

>>51779052
Main Monster Zones that are linked to a Link Monster are treated as Extra Monster Zones, so you essentially have to chain this card to another Link Monster to get the full benefits out of it. And some great benefits they are.
>Monsters that are Linked to this card cannot be targeted by effects or destroyed by battle.

Man am I glad I didn't buy a case of that Zoodiac pack so I can save up for a couple cases of this pack when it hits the tcg.

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>Castle Link
>Field Spell Card
>(1): Once per turn, during your Main Phase: You can target 1 Link Monster you control; move it to a Main Monster Zone on your side of the field that it is linked to.
>(2): Once per turn, during your Main Phase: Switch the placements of 2 Link Monsters in your Main Monster Zones, or 2 Link Monsters in your opponent’s Main Monster Zones.
So wait, I can use this card to move my Link Monsters out of the Extra Card Zones? So I guess Extra Card Monsters remain on the field, even if their Main Monster Zones don't remain linked to a Link Monster?

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>implying anything short of a bayonet will drive new players to Magic

Rip Karakuri

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>>51775749
BROTHER! ! !

>>51778323
>Soo, you can only control one extra deck monster or are forced to buy link monster now.
Ftfy

>>51776052

>not masturbating to hentai

why are you even here?

>>51773998
Isn't that a good thing? All every YGO player talks about is that the game's been steadily powercreeped to hell and back. It seems kinda obvious that an eventual critical mass would happen sooner than later and Konami would have to do something about it.

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So, I was thinking about learning and getting in to YGO in the not too distant future. Should I? I don't really understand what's going on, but am I supposed to take this as a sign from the Powers That Be to stay away?

>>51779407
Its one of those things that if you've been playing have have decks you like that are now deader than dead that pisses you off but if you are new you won't notice anything other than a bunch of extra deck cards that are kinda shit for how you are only allowed one of them.

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>mfw this kills swarm summoning and five hour long turns
>mfw at all you faggots freaking out over this

Thank you Konami, I pity the dead who can no longer know such joys

>>51778602
>>51778713
But you can still block linked zones.

>opponent link summons
>trigger Ojama tokens
>summon to opponents linked zones
>your linked zones are still in play

Vanitys Fiend inherits the earth.

>>51779450
I could not give a fuck less about the swarm summoning this kills.
I'm pissed off about how the perfectly fair kind of decks you see at locals that are just fun to play and play against are completely useless now.

>>51779052
First link monster links down

You can probably link summon into the regular monster zone after the initial link summon

>>51779004
I guess links can't defend?

>>51779651
They can't even be in Defense Position. In other words, fuck Book of Moon.

>>51779521
No deck that simply exists as a rank4/pendulum/syncrecycle engine is fun to play against

>>51773218

> People still play this.

>>51779710
Sidedeck stumbling then?

>>51776772
>>51776692
I play Frightfurs. I can... survive? But I'm crippled.

>>51779791
I play Frightfur too, and I can safely say "Good".

I'm tired of getting OTKs, man. I want a game for once.

>>51779822
I guess we just play on different tiers (IE, I'm not great). I usually can put up an excellent fight. This makes me... dead in the water.

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How will this effect the king?

>>51776013
>"this guy masturbates to hentai"
As someone who masturbates to hentai I take offense to this. Just because I like my 2D doesn't mean I play Vanguard.

>>51779741
>what is reading
>not being smart enough to know I wasn't talking about zoodiacs or Metalfoes
>what is Ghostricks
>what is Gem Knights toolbox
>what is Heros
>what is Madolche
>what is ritual beast
>what is pure Crystron

>>51779845
The deck is even more of nothing but big beatsticks now that it already was.

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>>51779822
>plays Frightfur
>complaining about getting OTKed
Anyway all you have to do is to make the main focus to bringing out Sabre-tooth cause you can still special summon extra deck monsters from the grave to the main zones.

>>51779879
>any of those
>fun to play against

Kek

Someone post the skulls servant infographic, I wanna play some ygopro rl quick

>>51779099
hexproof and indestructible is fucking great, you're right

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>>51780234

>>51779895
Honestly, the Ritual Turbo variant is going to be a huge fucking pain to get over now without using the new Mirror Force variants. Running a 4k monster over only using Main Deck monsters is gonna be ridiculously hard.

>>51780356
You know you can still ED summon, right? You only get 1 space to do it, but it's still possible. Rank4 is never going away, but it won't be as free-form or safe as it was.

This will kill YGO, people play it for the bullshit special summons and now konami just made you have to buy new cards to be able to do them and they killed like 80% of all decks that used the extra

That's fucking shit, see Konami backtrack in a few months from the backlash. Oh well, I'll just go see the meltdown on dng and elsewhere on the web.
I'll just go for ygopro legacy games

>>51780568
>>51780580
Samefag

Cry harder Xyz's whore

>>51779292
I've played magic. I think I'd rather take the bayonet.

>>51780623
Not samefag and my petdecks only need 1 extra deck monster anyway so this doesn't affect me

>>51779450
Swarms were the best thing about this game.

>>51773998
sound like konami is trying to make yugioh great again.

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>>51780353
I love these things

>>51780707
Make one for link meta

>>51779741
No deck is fun to play against*
ftfy

>>51780707
>Stratos

F

>>51780353
>>51780707

Boy these shitty new ones sure are shit. The originals from the synchro era for sabers and infernities were way better

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>>51773218
I've spent too much time and money on Yugioh already, and now this shit comes along and kills the fucking game. Half my fucking cards are god damned worthless now. Fuck Konami.

And fuck net decking assholes who think winning is more important than playing the game. Ya'll motherfuckers with your 20 minute turns and drawing half your fucking deck right off the bat and filling the field with fusions and synchros on the first turn. Fuck you. This is your fault that Konami did this.

>>51780781

What is with /tg/ and their anti-net decking stance?

>>51780781
>winning is more important than playing the game
What are you talking about? Winning IS playing the game.

>>51780799
General 4chan elitism.

>>51780799
They're bad at games and need some sort of pedestal to stand on.

>>51780799
Autism, that's what it is.

>>51780799
I'm usually against doing it because I feel like I'm just having someone play for me otherwise

>>51780234
>>51780353
>>51780707
really wish people would include a proper deck list for these, without one they're honestly pretty useless

>>51780781
honestly introducing any of the concepts that came after GX was a terrible idea, this is basically the chickens coming home to roost

>>51780507
The thing is that you can only reliably kill him by running over with The Lightning, which means that you'll need to either have more than one ED Zone active or have that single one free in order to get over him.

For non-YGO players that are utterly confused, here's the lowdown.

>Konami dropped a mechanic intended to curb some of the worst parts of the game's power creep.
>Retards are running around with half of the info we need to make a sound judgement.

Any MtG players that are created because of this will be terrible for your game. They're retarded.

>>51780947
Kaiju
Swords of Concealing Light
Grand Mole

>>51780641
Swarms should be something hard to pull off, and feel rewarding when you do. Not a business as usual thing that happens almost every duel.

>>51780919
3x everything on the page (minus limiteds) + staples

>>51777526
Yeah they can use it, but anything summoned to those zones are linked to the link monster, so it can use them to pay for its effects
For example decode talker gets 500 attack for every monster its linked to, AND it can destroy a monster linked to it to negate a card effect.
So it will actually be more strategic

>>51779879
Pure Crystron, GK toolbox, and RBs are the only decks you listed there that I'm not compelled to punch the players of, and one of those is only because I've never seen anybody play GK Toolbox.

If you show up to locals with Ghostricks or Madolches, you're showing up because you want to run every godamn game into time. If you show up with HEROs, you're going to either be an easy-mode match or I'm going to see Dark Law before Turn 3.

The worst part is that you can STILL Dank Law no problem. You just can't make two. Or three. Or a bunch of other shit. Or Absolute -> Acid while Dank Law is up.

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>>51780799

Anti-netdeck mentality explained here.

>>51781304
>netdecking is skill; the post

>>51781185
most of the cards in that picture aren't named, and I have no idea what the "staples" are(haven't properly played since around 2012-3), which is why I'm asking for a proper list of the cards needed

>>51781496
staples = generic/splashable cards (ex. mystical space typhoon, mirror force. etc.)

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Working on my Ultimate Falcon Turbo deck. Any ideas on how to improve this? I'm not sure if the side deck is going to work against the new Zoodiacs.

>>51781574
well I had an idea what Staples meant, just didn't know what cards are currently staples

>>51781645
why does no one ever write a god damn list when they post these things, they're literally never legible enough to read the card names off of, they're basically completely useless if you're not familiar enough with the cards to recognize on sight(and the game has too many cards these days for that to be an even remotely reliable thing)

>>51781894
Every yugioh player is familiar with all the cards in the game, to the point where we know exactly what they are and what they do just from picture alone. And if you don't at least have these basic skills then you shouldn't be giving deckbuilding advice.

>>51781894
Main:
Battle Fader x3
Effect Veiler x2
Kinka-Byo x2
Kuribohrn x3
Mystic Piper x3
Raidraptor - Last Strix x3
Rainbow Kuriboh x3
Swift Scarecrow x3
Treeborn Frog x1
Dark Hole x2
One Day of Peace x1
One for One x1
Pot of Duality x2
Raigeki x1
Rank-Up-Magic Astral Force x3
Rank-Up-Magic Skip Force x3
Twin Twister x2
Upstart Goblin x1
Skill Drain x1

Extra:
Number 77: The Seven Sins x2
Number 99: Utopic Dragon x2
Raidraptor: Ultimate Falcon x3
Raidraptor: Satellite Cannon Falcon x2
Number 39: Utopia Roots x2
Number F0: Utopic Future x1
Slacker Magician x1
Number 54: Lion Heart x1
Lyrical Luscinia - Recite Starling x1

Side Deck:
Maxx "C" x2
Prohibition x3
Magic Deflector x3
Vanity's Emptiness x1
Mask of Restrict x3
Imperial Iron Wall x1
Debunk x2

>>51779942
I'm not complaining about getting OTKed man.

I'm complaining about getting OTKs.

>>51781946
I wasn't planning on giving advice(as I've mentioned before I'm heavily out of date when it comes to this game), just noting that giving an actual list will make it easier for people to give proper advice

>>51781965
that's better

>>51778428
Every Link monster needs some form of Tribute protection.

>>51781304
Oh please, you aren't the engineer making a new product. You're the min-wage guy on the assembly line putting together a mass-produced product a million people already have.

I still have a watt deck sitting around somewhere
I wonder if it might be alright now

Okay, I get that the arrows open up main monster slots for ED summoning.

But what exactly is this "You can send X effect monsters from the field to the graveyard to Link summon" thing mean?
What are you summoning with a Link summoning with a Link summon? One of those blue Link monsters? So you cant normal summon them? Are they in your hand?

>>51781894
>Staples
Such as?

>>51782667
Take Decode Talker in the OP. He's in the Extra Deck, and his Summon requirement is three Effect Monsters. You send those to the Graveyard to summon him in your Extra Monster Zone.

>>51782667
The new Link monsters are in the Extra Deck. Link monsters have to be summoned by sacrificing the correct number of monsters that add up to their Link number.

ie A Link 3 monster needs

>Three regular monsters that meet the requirements
(1+1+1 = Link 3)

>One regular monster and one Link-2 monster (Adds up to 3 since Link monsters count for the same number of materials as their Link number so 1 + Link 2 = Link 3)

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>konami breaks the entire game instead of giving digital bugs better support
Thanks konami.

>>51778220
BLS, and Shinobirds are going to be nightmares to deal with

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I used to play fableds for fun when I was younger before I quit, my archetype is still dead right? Just checking if this could make them decent or if they got new tech.

>>51783624
So, anyone speak jap to translate the general thing this image is supposed to be?

>>51783689
Stores not wanting to stock the game

>>51773218
basically this will be great for the people who didn't like that you can't play yugioh like the protagonists of the show do (I.E having signature cards and their permutations/advanced forms)

for anyone who has actually gotten used to the idea of playing in the real life metagame this is probably a game ruining change that's just gonna make us play magic/hearthstone/vanguard/pokemon/shadowverse/whatever instead.

>>51780919
>honestly introducing any of the concepts that came after GX was a terrible idea

>fusions and rituals weren't good because they were hard to summon
>they include newer versions that are reasonable to actually summon

makes sense to me

>>51780802
he means that it's not really fun or playing the game if all your duels end in 2 turns, it's just winning at all costs.

like how 90% of the units in starcraft would be pointless if every 1v1 was won or lost in 5 minutes

>>51783949
that's the problem, Synchros and the other concepts introduced later were too easy to pull off, especially in combo format(in my opinion no duel should under normal circumstances be winnable in under 5 turns, and indeed it should average 10-15 turns)

>>51784024
>he means that it's not really fun or playing the game if all your duels end in 2 turns, it's just winning at all costs.
exactly

>>51784200
>that's the problem, Synchros and the other concepts introduced later were too easy to pull off, especially in combo format(in my opinion no duel should under normal circumstances be winnable in under 5 turns, and indeed it should average 10-15 turns)

no such thing as too easy, I like actually being able to summon monsters.

there's basically no game that's that slow, literally every PVP game ever(except chess) is fast paced. all this nerf is going to do is make 90% of all cool cards worthless and make the game boring to play since none of the decks you like or monsters you like will actually work.

and even if this was meant to stop people from summoning 5 monsters in one turn for an OTK, there's ridiculous collateral damage since this dumpsters basically every deck that even uses extra deck monsters

a better way to do that with no collateral would be making it so every extra deck monster you summon is minus 1 from the total amount of monsters you're allowed to have on the field (so, if you have 3 extra deck monsters on the field you can't have any more, or 2 extra deck monsters and 1 regular monster)

>>51784238
Instead of making a single zone for them they could have simply made it a once per turn thing.
Boom problem solved.
There are no degenerate combo decks that make 3 omegas their first turn and decks that are slow anyway and can only make one extra deck monster per turn anyway are unaffected.

>>51784266
that's also a pretty good one, I like it

but I guess our solutions don't sell new cards

>>51775666
Ok, I play(ed) Yugioh and this made more sense to me (Like >>51775373 I was kind of confused).
So basically they've limited the number of Extra Deck summons to two (for the whole field or per player?) and you have to play a new creature if you want more (which means a bunch of decks will probably run them and they'll be super expensive, right?)

>>51775550
I tried to get into it, and have a fairly decent amount of cards but it's a pain to get into so I can see why it hasn't done well. You basically have to buy a bunch of singles or several booster boxes just to get a legal deck. That, or get a starter deck and work off of it. Kind of a pain.

Fun enough otherwise, but I hear they've added stuff since I played so I can't comment on the current version.

>>51777269
Couldn't they just reboot the game though? Still an existing franchise and name-brand recognition but a fresh start on the game.

>>51776317
>but some drama involving the largest LGS in the area hit every TCG community hard, and vanguard was collateral damage.

I'd be curious to hear about that, actually.

>>51776692
I still play Dark World- can I do anything with that or am I still screwed under the new rules?

So, like, for fusions/synchros that require multiple synchros or fusions as prerequisites, link cards are now obligatory?

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>>51778256
I mean I guess you could use this one.
I don't know if it is worth it just to force Sabers to work.

2 EARTH monsters
All EARTH monsters on the field gain 500 ATK and DEF. All WIND monsters on the field lose 400 ATK and DEF. If this card is destroyed by battle or card effect: You can target 1 EARTH monster in your Graveyard; add it to your hand. You can only use this effect of "Missus Radiant" once per turn.

>>51784731
>Dark World
They don't get screwed by the new rules but they have been powercreeped so hard they have no chance in hell of becoming relevant.

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>>51784742
There's also this thing which looks like a pain to use and you'd be better off just using the errata'd Rescue Cat.

You can shuffle this card you control into the Deck; Special Summon any number of monsters from your Deck whose total Levels equal exactly 6, except "Rescue Ferret", to Link Monster's linked Zones on your field, but they have their effects negated, also they are destroyed during the End Phase. You can only use this effect of "Rescue Ferret" once per turn.

>>51784736
Yes, links are basically a summon tax. You want more extra deck monsters? Well you have to play these blue cards first to get more zones.

The problem here is that while this seems like a perfect idea to slow down the game it just makes a lot of irrelevant deck complete trash and some meta decks just can play around the link limitation. In other words this summon tax makes bad decks shitty and is just an inconvenience for meta decks. We will still see the same old fuckhuge/long combos down the line they will just include link monsters so we can extend them or start them. This new rule just fucks over old decks the need the extra in my opinion.

>>51784791
oh, I don't care about that, I'm no competitive player, I just wanted to know if I had to buy new cards in order to keep using my big dumb space dragons. Thanks.

>>51784820
If you plan on summoning more than one extra deck monster then yes. If not then you will not notice the difference at all.

Whoever has to make the cartoon must be fucking pissed how needlessly complex everything is now

>>51784974
I dunno man, the show just kinda follows its own rules, regardless of whether or not the cards can actually do what they make them do

>>51785035
This
Remember that guy in GX that had a deck based on a TV game?
And the protagonist of the last generation create Pendulum summon out of nowhere

>>51774174
theres always magic, the game that doesnt fundamentally change every few months and remains reasonably balanced

>>51785174
>remains reasonably balanced
I play magic casually and I've seen some of the new shit that has come out that that is a load of bullshit.

Yugioh>Cardfight=Force of Will>Magic>DBZ

This new format is gonna raise up Yu Gi Oh even higher.

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Vanguard is best weeb card game

>>51785251
>Running Bermudas

Fucking disgusting. I would destroy you with my army of robo insects, bruh/

>>51785251
Meh. I can always build a waifu deck out of yugioh cards. Don´t even know if vanguard is avaible in germany. It´s not at my locals and we have force of will here.

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You can't stun RGs that aren't on board bro.

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I love Vanguard.

The art is objectively better for the waifu cards.

>>51785317
I play Neo Nectar too. I am kicking myself over not getting "Glorious" SP when it was $20. Oh well. Do you have a good deck list? Are you running the marajuuka build?

>>51785192
I've been saying that for fifteen years, kid.
Power creep doesn't unbalance a game, it just makes it more complex

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>>51785174
it's not diverse compared to yugioh

>>51785174
And costs $5,000,000. Card games were a mistake.

>>51773218
I jumped to MTG sometime around the time pendulum summoning became a thing.
Konami's power creep is just too ridiculous; even the most expensive decks become completely irrelevant when a new set is released.
Synchros were a good concept, but ultimately it was the beginning of the end.

>>51785174
Standard and Modern are unstable with shit balance to a point where everyone hates the formats they are playing and Legacy and Vintage require you to drop thousands on a fucking card game for formats that are barely even supported by anyone.

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>>51785236
The problem is that unlike previous new mechanics that have come out, there were never these massive rule changes that essentially fucked the functionality of many archetypes while at the same time saying "if you want these to still work you have to invest in our Brand New New Card Type™."

The game already gets to Modern levels of expensive with many tech cards and extra deck choices hitting high price points due to their usability, but then saying you need this new card type just for certain things to work essentially screams into existence cards that will be way more expensive than Baby Jace during KTK-BFZ Standard, hell maybe more expensive than Nekroz of Brionac was in his prime.

Of course my casual Yubel deck is going to love the change with the game slowing the hell down enough for me to probably have a better advantage, and Monarchs are going to be going at the same speed unaffected by this, but anyone else who touched an extra deck is essentially fucked if they went even a little bit hard.

It's complexity creep at it's finest.

>>51785192
Desolator please leave. Go back to shilling your epic xD double strike tribal and cuhrazee bananas. Leave the card evaluation to people that know how Wizards designs their sets and why the power goes intentionally up and down.

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>>51779450
100% agree with you. This has now got me looking at the game with interest again. Not sold, but interested. (Also, source on that gif?)

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>>51787309
No I don't want to buy any Magi- OH SHIT DAMNATIONS? I'LL TAKE TWENTY!

>>51773218
Catch up, scrubs.

>Q: If Special Summoned an Extra Deck Monster normally, and it goes to the Graveyard, and I want to Special Summon it with “Monster Reborn”, which Zone does it go to?
>A: It goes into the Main Monster Zone, not the Extra Monster Zone.

Rapidly summoning, sacking, and then reviving your Extra Deck Monsters is the new meta.

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>>51785251
>>51785306
>>51785317
>play vanguard with us anon
>it has a better system than magic
Yeeeeaaaah...

>>51784749
that grass looks greener is a thing now

>>51785099
The show can be silly and have a lot of self-contained dumb stuff.

My problem with it is when magic helps people make new cards or change cards unreasonably or without explanation.

As another reminder, the characters in Arc-V constantly get new deck upgrades despite having had no opportunities to go get more cards.

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Part of me wonders if Yugioh will try to make more formats than just Advanced and Traditional.

Duel Links has shown that new deck building rules stimulates more creativity and players both new and old really enjoy it.

>implying they won't run to pokemon

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>>51788443
I've played pokemon and it just isn't my thing.
If it wasn't for the fact that its dead and I am litterally the only person I know who still goes out of his way to collect what cards he can from the game I'd run to pictured.

>>51781946
>>51781894
>not memorizing every card in the game

Is this what MTG players actually do?

>>51788645
Apparently.
To be fair though the game does have that stupid single name for complex effects thing.

>>51788465
>animelatino
what is it with minorities and a love of anime?

>>51788722
I have no fucking clue.
That show and game wasn't even from Jap land.

>>51788672
Keywords are a good thing. How long did it take for yugioh to get the text for peircing damage simplified?

>>51783926
>for anyone who has actually gotten used to the idea of playing in the real life metagame this is probably a game ruining change

Anyone who plays competitive and lived through Xyz's and Pendulums has to have expected this type of bullshit. Any player worth their salt will pay the link tax and getgud. Rankswarm has always been degenerate.

>>51788818
Iirc they still differentiate between "piercing" and "piercing when target = facedown".

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>>51788818
Well the good news is that they don't have to explain Vigilance as a keyword.

>>51788818
How are they a good thing?
They just make the game harder to jump into and play cause the new will constantly have to have a glossary with them to read and check what everything does which will just annoy the piss out of their opponent.
Keywords should be shorthand used by the players when talking about cards and no where else.

>>51776438
>I've had yugioh cards in a sleeve get creases over time just from the air resistance of placing them on the table from hand multiple times.
YOu're not supposed to play them like they do in the anime.

>>51789161
Starter decks already come with rulebooks

>>51789218
I have no idea how one accomplishes that shit just playing their cards.
I even do that bad habit of snapping the bottom right corner of my cards and they don't have any creases.

>>51789237
Anyone who knows anything about playing card games knows that starter decks are completely worthless for anything than pissing away 10 bucks or however much magic starter decks cost.
And yes they do, that is where they got the glossary that they have to constantly reference until they have that shit memorized.
Its more annoyance for established players from noobs than it is worth.

>>51785251
>implying bushiroad has a better sense of balance than konami

>>51785317
Fucking hell, those look hard to read at a glance.

>>51789623
It's not that bad once you learn what the symbols mean. The worst is that they have text in red making it awkward to read on most backgrounds.

>>51789314
And anyone who knows anything about card games knows a 10$ starter deck is a great place to start when playing a new game for the first time.

>>51789742
Not really.
You're better off just looking up the rules online and buying cards that are actually good and not the worthless shit you're given in a starter deck.
Its kind of hard to learn to properly play the game using a deck that has no hope of ever winning even a casual game at a locals without even entering the tournament.

>>51789314
>implying new players don't get confused and intimidated by long paragraphs of microtext on every card.

>>51789886
>You're better off just looking up the rules online
In which case they can look up the glossary

>>51789886
Are you saying a new player of a game should be able to compete on a tournament level the first time out of the gate?

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>>51779450
It really doesn't. Zoodiacs are completely immune to the new ruling.

>>51789936
>Are you saying a new player of a game should be able to compete on a tournament level the first time out of the gate?
>that has no hope of ever winning even a casual game at a locals without even entering the tournament
Clearly that's not what I am saying, but it should at least be worth the cardboard its printed on.
In terms of magic you should be able to buy four copies of it and at least win a couple matches at a local tournament and in terms of yugioh you should be able to buy three and at least win a couple of matches.
If you want to win the whole thing you have to shillout for the real good shit in packs like the couple of guys that always top that every locals have do.

>>51789914
I'm not saying they can't look up the glossary.
I'm saying when they do look up the glossary it will be fucking annoying and game slowing that they have to do it at all.

>>51790019
>If you want to win the whole thing you have to shillout for the real good shit in packs like the couple of guys that always top that every locals have do.
Sure, but if you and your friends want to try out a new game and its mechanics spending 20$ on a couple starter decks is usually superior to dropping 40$+ on a single deck that is only barely viable in the lowest ranks

>>51790058
So they should be able to play without ever consulting the rules to begin with?

>>51790118
Glossary =/= Rules
Nice try moving those goal posts.
I'm talking about the effects that are boiled down to one simple word not the basic mechanics of the game.

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>>51790149
From the official yugioh rulebook

>>51790197
And the only one word effect that you'll find in there is the stupid piercing change.
Everything else is mechanic terms that card effects refer to not the effects themselves.

>>51789998
>Once per turn special summon
Holy fuck this is broken.

>>51789998
Pure Zoodiacs yeah but no deck can use them as an engine anymore.
Cause, as far as I have seen the decks on ygopro, most often they just make and sit on a 0/0 Drancia or whatever its english name is and do whatever their deck actually does beside it.

>>51790238
>Mechanics =/= effects
What even are you saying?

Yugioh already has all sorts of simplifiers that people might have to look up (icons/abilities/card types) no one expects to understand them all the first time they play, effect keywords are the same. I have never heard someone complain that it was hard getting into MTG because of keywords, and I've never heard anyone say yugioh cards with lots of text were easy for casuals to interpret and play.

>>51788821
>Anyone who plays competitive and lived through Xyz's and Pendulums has to have expected this type of bullshit.

it's not like XYZ completely invalidated Synchros

>>51790943
They actually kind of did by like the second set. And Links didn't invalidate anything. The rules change did

>>51790984
Mermails and agents existed

>>51791000
And fire fists
And rulers

>>51791000
And under these new rules, the way they use synchros (and xyz by the way-- xyz was at least as important as synchros to Agents, and Mermails also became more xyz centric after the level 7 ditch 1 search) is not affected at all by the only able to control one limit.

>>51791055
That's wrong though. All the decks I listed are crippled by the rules change.

>>51791086
No they weren't. The ONLY decks crippled are ones need to always summon more than ~1-2 guys from the extra deck at a time to function. That's it. You are barely affected if you don't do that, much less "crippled". If these were you >>51791049 and you were intending to imply that these decks, ESPECIALLY, are crippled, you are unbelievably dense and have no idea how these decks were. Every single one you mentioned are main deck centric decks. Playing Xyz or Synchros at all don't mean you are "crippled" by the rules change. The only way you'll be hurt is if your strategy hinged on being able to make one and then immediately follow it up with another in the same turn.

>>51791152
You mean like horse into cardinal, or the ruler basic combos that went into multiple synchros and xyz? And don't forget, it's not a once per turn limit, it's a highlander limit, where your deck stops DEAD if you can't capitalize on that one single sync/xyz and your opp doesn't pop it their turn.

>>51791152
Different person, but I would like to point out that the modern meta is filled with decks that outrageously just dump 2-3 things onto the field at once. I think that this limitation is a good thing, though I feel that the new Link mechanic is arbitrary and not needed.

>>51791199
>>51791199
During the Arc-V era we honestly probably had a longer period of time with non-extra deck based decks being the strongest than extra deck based decks being the strongest.

>>51791198
It isn't once per turn, but it is effectively once per turn. If your opponent isn't threatening your board presence and removing your guys, they aren't pushing for damage and forcing their momentum. If your opponent is keeping your one extra deck monster alive, are they winning? If being able to strategize around keeping a useless extra deck monster on the opponent's field while still managing to keep up tempo becomes a real strategy, isn't that a good thing, a new twist on the game?
>>51791199
Yes, exactly, the best decks do it, and people bitched about it. People bitched about it a lot that this game was all about who could vomit the most extra deck at once. Konami makes it so that that can't be done without jumping through hoops for the decks that can and people have the gall to cry bloody fucking murder over it? I don't fucking get people. BUT WE DIDN'T WANT THEM TO MURDER XYZ AND SYNCHROS! They didn't. They murdered a very specific use of them. Your average deck that plays an xyz to kill something or make an answer or whatever is not hurt at all and that's the majority of decks that don't have a specific gimmick and/or aren't those summon spam decks people supposedly hatred.

I like Yugioh and I liked what it was. A lot of people will say that now after the fact, but I 100% guarantee you if you look in the archives of old Yugioh threads you will find the exact complaints the rule change fixes. The Link mechanic, also, actually HELPS synchros and xyz. The rules change are what made it so you could only control one without links. If Links didn't exist, decks that focused on summoning lots of extra deck monsters, even if it was for mostly innocent means like making quasar or the quantal dude, would BE ACTUALLY, FACTUALLY unplayable as opposed to now. You can still do it even with the only cards revealed.

>>51791259
R4NK spam was still really powerful and common for a good part of the Arc-V era. And don't tell me that it wasn't, because Performages were godawful.

>>51791259
I can't remember any meta of ARC-V where a non-extra deck centric deck was the best save for Nekroz which I guess one is better than none but even previous eras had chaos and dark variants so. People will cite Qliphorts but they weren't the best deck in any meta that they were available in to my knowledge. In OCG they had to compete with full-power shaddolls and in TCG they dealt with burning abyss

>>51791363
Do you not remember the months after Pepe got E-banned and the best decks were Monarch and Kozmo?

>>51791383
No since I wasn't a part of that. So 2 instead of 1. Oops?

>>51791383
>>51791391
Also I actually just remembered Nekroz doesn't really count since it was actually a Rank 4 deck in disguise.

>>51791406
>Rank 4 deck in disguise
retard

>>51791421
No, really. Go back and look at some videos of Nekroz. It really slipped under the radar and no one really acknowledged it, mostly because it wasn't really a "spam" deck maybe, but that deck functioned on a ground of rank 4

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>>51791324
it isn't even just the best decks that do it. I've not played meta since t2 inzektors back in 2012. Nowadays, I play little but silly jank decks that do nothing except achieve very limited goals. My all-time favourite decks are D/D/D, which are crippled by this rule change, and super quants, which are now unplayable.

Looking at my current decklist on pro, which has the decks I've not deleted, this is what this rule change has done:
abyss actors: relatively untouched.
DDD: dead
dinomist: crippled
E-HERO: dead
fluffals: dead
gagaga: dead
glad beasts: crippled, but playable
insect spam: crippled, but playable
inzektors: dead
magician girls: crippled, but playable
melodious: crippled, but playable
red dragon archfiend: dead
SPYRAL: dead
Super Quant: dead
Utopia: dead
Non-ED performapals: untouched
morphtronics: dead
crystal beasts: dead
neo spacians: dead

This rule change hurts far more than just meta and spam decks, it hurts any deck that actually special summons more than once, no matter how casual the player or deck. It is ludicrous that konami thinks this will bring balance back to the game, especially since, as many have already pointed out, main-deck focused decks have dominated several formats in the last few years.

>>51791406
The only rank four it really depended on beyond the simple rank 4 outs that every deck uses when they need to was Lavalval Chain to dump Releaser of Rituals.
Nyarla doesn't exist in the tcg so being able to use Arc Light twice wasn't an issue.

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This is obviously a pander to nostalgiafags, but my question is why? They don't fucking play the game, and no matter what you do they won't play the game. They're not the ones who go out and autistically buy boxes of this shit, at most I can see them buying a yugi starter deck while waiting in line at Target or something. Was Duel Links so successful that they would shift demographics that hard?

>mfw as a synchro player

>>51791324
>People bitched about it a lot that this game was all about who could vomit the most extra deck at once. Konami makes it so that that can't be done without jumping through hoops for the decks that can and people have the gall to cry bloody fucking murder over it?

>the same people that complained are the ones complaining now that their for fun decks are murdered while monster spam decks just have more shit to go into
Do you have special needs?

>>51791522
I'm pretty sure I said somewhere that yes there are some summon spam decks that are mostly innocent.

Also Super Quantals are playable. You can easily get 3 open spots on the field with Decode Talker into Gaiasaber. It's not great but still functioning. And considering that you apparently like decks that do it regardless of how good they are, that shouldn't matter that it's not great.

Ignoring that information and any potential misevaluation of "dead" versus "crippled" in your list (of which there appears to be a lot-- Dinomist? Spyral? Gladiator Beasts? What the fuck?), that's a tiny fraction of decks in this game. If most decks weren't good to begin with, and they got made worse, who cares?If you played a bad deck, why does it matter that it got worse? It wasn't competing in the upper echelons to begin with, and it should still function in whatever casual environment you're playing in.

I feel like people are thinking "HOLY SHIT NOW I CAN ONLY SUMMON AN EXTRA DECK MONSTER ONCE PER GAME HOLY SHIT MY DECKS ARE DEAD". No. It's actually much, much closer to once per turn, and even that's not hard. And as explained, in the situation where you're actually unable to summon another extra deck monster because the opponent couldn't kill the one you have, in how many situations will you lose because you can't summon another one?The only instance I can think of is if your opponent wipes your whole board with their own huge dude but kept your one weak piddly extra deck monster on the board. That's an extremely narrow situation at best. It's the natural flow of the game that players kill each other's mosnters. They have to in order to get to you. The times where you lose because you were locked out of playing a second extra deck monster to answer something your opponent did without killing the first are going to be few and far between.

>>51791707
It wasn't just nostalgiafags. Citing extra deck spam as a flaw of the game from both "pros" and casual players, for years. Since Synchros. Just because you like and play a game regardless doesn't make it not a flaw. Whether it is one is another issue entirely, but people pretending like this suddenly wasn't an issue with anybody but the lowest common denominator when we finally get a change answering it is frustrating.

>>51791732
except even with 3 slots open, it remains impossible to use 3 mechs on the field to make magnus, because that requires summoning a fourth Xyz, or you pop one of your xyz which means you're drastically limiting the number of materials magnus can realistically have, meaning his 6+ effect is likely going to become an impossibility for more than the near future.

and it's not a tiny fraction, it's a vast majority. Only two very limited playstyles are now even possible to play with, that being either maindeck monster spam or control with a single ED. Just because YOU like playing against nothing but the same boring control decks doesn't mean that's what everyone enjoys.

that's not even taking into consideration how decode talker requires a minimum of 3 monsters unless you have link monsters, further slowing you in the assumption you can crap out 3 effect monsters, summon talker, and still have materials for another, and assuming you don't immediately LOSE decode talker.

>>51791791
It hasn't been an issue for years though. It doesn't change the fact that recent decks that have been T1 don't rely on spamming from the extra deck. The only time it has ever been an "issue" is when D-Rulers were a thing because they had access to high rank/level extra deck monsters which have strong effects and power.

>>51787441
Gonna pull this post again as being important.

There's literally a workaround for decks that like to use their Graveyard as a second hand.

>>51791815
If you have all 3 mechs, you can clear your link to summon the magnus. Im going to assume youre smart enough to figure out how. This is also assuming that you wont be able to use a filled spot to summon a new xyz with the old one ehich. We currently have no reason to believe this is the case. You could still rabbit with only one open space, or tribute summon with none. We dont even know how this mrchanic works yet exactly to be crying about how decks are dead. For all we know we can do link spider into honeybot for a relatively easy 3 spaces. We just dont know yet. People are going to these massive extremes.

>>51791934
there's a reason jap stores are already threatening to drop stock and fans are pointing out just how many of their decks are unplayable without running links, and if you've played many decks, you'd know how limited ED space can be. Konami has never so obviously grandfathered out old mechanics to make space for the new one.

>>51792009
You know.
I'd be able to accept these rules without a single complaint if it was just synchros and xyzs that had to be suck in that zone. Cause with fusions you do need to use an extra card to be able to summon them in the first place.
I'm not even one of the people who bitched about them either. I was perfectly fine with synchros and xyzs existing when they first came out.

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>>51792009
I think most stores are holding off buying or selling cards until we get a clarity of the rules of how exactly the Link rules work.

>>51792089
me too, and I came back after 6 years of not playing, and the first thing I played against was full-powered wind-ups.

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>>51792089
>muh fusions can do no wrong

>>51792132
no, stores are threatening to drop the product because konami is butchering the secondary market with these rule changes and insisting that at official YGO stores, only official, NEW ygo playmats with the new field layout be allowed to be used.

>>51792162
And it was banned and we haven't had an issue with them since.

>>51792009
So, the issue is actually that you have to PLAY links at all? The situstion isnt the same as when they were first released, but xyz are the same thing. You had to be playing them. The reason is different but the fact is if you werent playing xyz your deck didnt function the way it should. People also arent considering what kinds of decks links open up. Not as many as xyz did. But now we have a generic way to use monsters that summon other monsters somehow with a different level and arent tuners. They also give xyz and synchro decks optiona for that situation. Extra deck space is an issue, but some could argue thst having too many options in the extra deck was never a good idea in the first place. Rank4 was so strong for example because it could answer almost anything. Rank3 had gotten to that point as well.

I honestly and genuinely believe the biggest problem is if it ends up being that inatead of people worrying about spam of other things, now its just link spam.

Some decks really did becomme unplayable, less than I feel youve lised anf certainly not the majority of decks in the game (there are a lot, the game is big, and not just purely ones that can be named cleanly with a theme name) but yeah. But for some of them, people didnt play them because they were good anyway. And it indirectly helped any decks whose strategy wasnt focused on summoning multiple extra deck monsters a turn. And thats the key, multiples a turn. Your tehnically locked out by having one in the extra zone but monsters dont tend to live between turns in yugioh.

I also believe its konamis right and even duty to curate the game. Even if the strategies aren't "good", should summon spam decks exist at all? Konami apparently believes they should not. This is an issue magic faced and dealt with with split formats, but the face format of their game is he curated one. Yugioh doesnt have multiple formats but the point is this hard line decision isnt new or even bad inherently.

>>51792253
no you didn't. a few decks at the release of Xyz didn't use them

What the fuck decks does having a majority of your combos limited open open up? Links are just a non-level-restricted Xyz.

>>51792280
Literally 0 decks on release of xyz played none of them. I guess I shouldnt say literally, but its also the fact that not literally every deck on release has to play links either. When Xyz were released, being able to normal summon a 25 atk moster was huge game. Being able to turn 2 tengus into Utopia instead of leaving them because you had no tuner was big even after they didnt trigger off detach. Theres no reason for any deck that plays more than one of any of their monsters to not play xyz besides space issues.

Also, did you read whst you said? By definition something with less restrictions opens up more options.

>>51792355
except the rules change adds restrictions, it doesn't remove jack shit.

>>51792355
But it is still a factor of you weren't forced to use them. If you just wanted to keep on chugging away with your petdeck, than feel free.
However, If you want to have more than one fusion/synchro/xyz, you are REQUIRED to use Links.

>>51792372
Rules change and links are different things.

>>51792393
While technically true that you werent FORCED to use then, if you didnt use xyz, your deck was gimped anyway. Your deck was worse for not playing them. To me there is no difference besides how it "feels".

>>51792419
My ass there is no difference. You could still do what you wanted when xyz dropped. You could run a utopia, or you could not. Your deck might be better or worse, but you could still do it. You could still run synchrons, you could still run lightsworn, you could still run any number of things. You're leaving the possibility of getting destroyed by say, dino rabbit, but it was your choice to not run it.

With the new rule change, you CANNOT just do what you want. You CANNOT run Syncrhons, you CANNOT run Gem-Knights, and you CANNOT run any number of archetypes that rely on the extra deck, unless you run Links.

How do you not see the difference in that?

>>51792467
I rdcognzed that there is a tehnixal diference. But the primary issue to my understanding-- i.e. your deck isnt good unless it plays the new cards-- still exists. It just feels shittier becayse you LITERALLY can not play the deck now, whereas before you just werent playing optimally which as Ive said is a difference I recognize but feel pointless to make a distinction on as the end result is again the same-- decks that dont play them are bad.

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>all these assmad rank 4 and synchro peasants
>tfw member of the rank 10 master race

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So what does this mean for clown control?

>>51792560
I actually made a clown control deck on ygopro not too long ago and it actually took people by surprise and won more often than it had any right to.

>>51792397
I'm not at all mad about links, I'm mad about the rules change butchering the vast majority of decks I've ever enjoyed playing, and making a huge portion of character decks unplayable, which is a large amount of the decks I play nowadays.

>>51792601
Im pretty sure this doesnt hurt the vast majority of character decks other than I guess having to play unrelated cards maybe. And I hate to say it but this just means Konami is saying youre having wrong bad fun. Sometimes this just happens with any change to anything. Even dor higs widely consodered good changes there will be people upset because they took away thing X that they loved. Its unavoidable and was going to happen with any change. Does that mean yugioh should never change? I dont think anybody would say that. But that also means that sometimes things you like will be gone at some point

>>51792662
well, off the top of my head, assuming you're not going for inspiration rather than accuracy:
kaiba: crippled
jo: crippled
mai: dead
johan: dead
judai: dead
yusei: dead
jack: dead
crow: dead
kiryu: dead
rua: dead
bruno: dead
yuma: dead(all builds)
gauche: dead
droite: dead
kaito: dead
shark: dead
any of the barians: dead
yuya: dead
yuto: dead
yugo: dead
yuri: dead
yuzu: crippled
serena: dead
rin: dead
ruri: dead
gongenzaka: fine
shun: dead
dennis: dead
jack: dead
chojiro: crippled
reiji: dead
BB: crippled

should I go on?

>>51792727
I dont see ey i should trust your opinion how dead they are over my own considering how much contradiction I see, like Kaiba, Alito, Joey, and more. I repeat, the only decks hurt any relevant amount by this rules change are ones that literally can not function unless you put multiple extra deck monsters on board a turn. Your evaluation is pretty much "does it play any extra deck monsters at all? Its fucked". Which obviously not correct.

>>51792791
no, my evaluation is "does it generally summon more than one in a turn for its plays" which the decks I listed do.

>>51792791
Blue-Eyes and Red-Eyes do depend on the extra deck and more than one at that.

>>51792835
How so? I wont say In terribly familiar with those decks but I cant see how they would be unplayable even for a character theme deck unless it could summon two or more extra deck monsters at a time. I have no idea what these decks are doing that they have to do that to work. We know monsters have to be properly summoned from the extra deck to go into the extra zone, and we know via previous interactions (though it could change) that if something occupies a space, if its gone before the summon its used for resolves, you can use that space (so if you used spirit to summon azure eyes or xyz change, for example, that should still work).