What does /tg/ think of the Holy Grail War as a setting? What

>>51767725
The one with the adults was okay. The kiddie ones were super bad.

The setting feels very silly and the classes seem quite arbitary.

>>51767725

The anime about the adoptive father of (blank main character) was neat.

The setting shows promise, but of late the pandering got real and kind of shit.

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I know way too much about this setting in general, and I think it has promise. Tried putting together a homebrew with a friend, but we got overambiscious.

Asymmetrical PvP and pairs form an interesting game, if you can find 4-14 players and keep everyone engaged in a game where most of the players could just be... out of the game after a point.

In order to do it, you need to decide on some things first.
>do Servant players pick their Servants?
>are Servants preconstructed or do players build them?
>what bullshit levels are we looking at?
Last one is difficult. I tend to think that anything outside the original and Zero is bumb as shit, even when it can be fun. Endless genderswaps, character design reuses, historical figures as loli, turning poets into reality-bending mages, and uninspired uses of cool figures. But honestly, gauge your group. Maybe your friends want nothing more than Caesar to be a little girl in thigh highs and a laser sword.

Classes are fine as long as your players know it won't be fair coming in. Assassin should be difficult and underpowered compared to the melee classes. Caster will have problems given at least three Servants will have significant resistances to them. And Berserker is perfect for that friend who wants to participate, but only really knows how to murderhobo.

And if PvP isn't your thing, change it. Holy Grail war isn't a free-for-all, but a team-based trial. Holy Grail War is actually a treasure hunt. Holy Grail War gives two or three masters multiple servants, making it a player versus NPC situation. Possibilities are endless.

>>51769157
I think you are overlooking a lot of great side material. The other light novel series are quite fantastic. Fate/Strange Fake is one of my favorites.

>>51767725

It's not possible to work as a setting, because players aren't anime characters.

Like, even in Fate/Zero, the characters didn't behave pragmatically all the time. Most of the time, they acted as was necessary for the story to progress. For instance, what would've happened if Tokiomi had gone:

> "Hey, I just set Kariya on fire. Better head down to finish him off, doot-doot-doot."

You'd have problems like:

> "Saber, I want you to blow up the building. Yes, that entire building? Oh, you don't want to? I don't care, I have a Command Seal. Nuke them."

Bam, two Masters dead and two Servants out of commission.

This won't work as a game, at all. Everyone would hold up in their mansions and no-one would ever sleep, because the first guy to let down his guard gets gibbed by Assassin. The first guy who goes outside gets shot in the head by Archer, and in the first mano-a-mano fight, Saber just charges the enemy Master, shrugs off all spells, and fucking cuts him in half.

PCs being PCs, they would all constantly backstab each other. It would be rocket tag taken to the extreme, like a game where the PCs were all mortals and their best buddies were Solar Exalted.

Tsukihime>Fate

>>51769202
This post is pretty retarded.

>>51769262

Go on, tell me how you're going to run a game. Are the PCs Masters? Are they the Servants? Either way, there's a huge power imbalance and PCs don't work well when one guy's in a subordinate position.

Also, you have a really small cast - 14 characters, at most, though you can pad it with non-Masters and other unique individuals. But if you're running it as a last man standing game (i.e. the way the Grail War is supposed to unfold) you're going to have a very, very short campaign.

>>51769276
Come on buddy, they're all normal humans in the setting with no connection to the grail war. We're running slice of life.

>>51769315

Then why is it a Holy Grail War setting?

>I watched Zero and now I think I know everything: the thread

>>51769276
>huge power imbalance

Not really. Masters are less useful in a fight, but they are still powerful mages, and more importantly have more knowledge and resources than the servants. Two players working as a team (one being the "leader" who has better knowledge skills and long-term sorceries, the other being a more combat focused unit with particular special abilities) isn't too disparate, and these could team up with another team for four players altogether.

Also, while some masters are just little kids and are paired with super strong servants, there are several examples of masters being even more combat-capable than their servants.

>Also, you have a really small cast
>though you can pad it with non-Masters and other unique individuals

There you go.

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>>51769386
Tbf it and Fate-route are only major translated works that feature standard style heaven's feel (UBW is more focused on Shirou's ally of justice autism and last time I checked Fragraments translations were basically just couple summaries posted on boy's love) so they flocking around it is hardly surprising. Though wouldn't be too surprised if after Apo animu comes out we see increase in what does /tg/ think of 7 vs 7 servant wars-threads,

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>>51769399
Yeah. While no Master should be able to beat characters like Authuria or Heracles, you could build a combat-oriented Master, or have a set of C-list Servants, or just interpret the setting differently. Characters in lore are states to be able to at least survive melee wig Servants.

>>51769194
Okay, that one had cools ideas. And it didn't make anyone a loli or anything. Madness canceling madness, the pale rider, and an unsung Assassin was cool. I enjoyed a lot of Extra too, but the side material goes down the bullshit hole more often than the main stuff.

>Nero's just... a blonde girl who built her NPs out of ponies and dreams I guess.
>Astolfo is a little boy. 'Kay.
>Shakespeare is a Servant with physical stats at least 10x the standard human level and magic and stuff. Uh, sure.
>Jack the Ripper is a little girl. In her pants.
>Joan of Arc is how powerful?
>everything about Grand Order.

Not that it's amazing story writing making Iskander 7'13", or Arthur a girl aren't bullshit out of context, but it's backed up by good writing (once the sex scenes were retconed away).

>>51768892
The jap who wrote it looked at DnD 3.5e for about 5 minutes and decided he wanted to make porn of it

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>>51767725

Obligatory

>>51769657
Half of the point of the master/servant dynamic is that the servant makes sure the master doesn't die and the master tries to keep themselves alive as long as possible

So the servant protects the master from high magic while the masters beat the shit out of each other with less flashy shit

In theory anyway. Kiritsugu was/is an asshole

>>51769657
>Astolfo is a little boy. 'Kay.

Considering how he was an accomplished crossdresser in his myths so making him a trap isn't really the farfetched.

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>>51767725
I am a big Type-Moon fan.

Nasuverse is great setting, but the Fate side of it has been done to death and I want the fuck out. You would think they were being cheeky and hilariously self-referential in Loli Jeanne Santa Alter, but the newest servant is Mysterious Heroine X Alter. After Genderbent Musashi. I am so fucking done

>>51769678
I like the theory where Fate Francis Drake switched places with Queen Elizabeth earlier on in their lives when the Queen got her face scarred.

so Queen Elizabeth, the Virgin Queen, was a trap and actually francis drake the whole time

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>>51769678
Queen Elizabeth wasn't a bearded man, silly.

>>51769701
The mobage was kind of funny but then i realised they're unironically just pumping out fanservice characters for people to whale for

now I just ignore the shit

>>51769687
A good asshole.

>>51769723
Chaotic Asshole

No guns allowed

I really like the idea of the Holy Grail War, even if Fate is pretty stupid overall, and I'd love the play a HGW game, be it either an RPG or just online roleplaying

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>>51769723
>mr lets lobotomize humanity because i've emotional maturity of 4 years old
>good

>>51769701
One would had thought that you figured that out when Shiki became 2 servants and Kerry went full janitor.

>>51769678
Dumb, but they do lampshade that as the Mooncell Grail actually fucking up on the regular. They didn't sell that as FD was a woman in drag so much as We Like Tits So The Grail Is Broken.

>>51769687
True, but if you've got a group that would like one version over the other, go for it.

>>51769695
Huh, never came across that when I was looking into him. Magic horse, moon visit, magic horn and lance, and all that. Though I don't like much about Apocrypha so maybe I just dismissed the design prematurely.

>>51769701
Been dying for more non-parody Nasuverse for a while now. I'm kinda resolved to never getting it, and just pouring over Fate, Taukihime, and KnK until there's just nothing else to jerk off to.

>>51770167
>Been dying for more non-parody Nasuverse for a while now.
Good parody Nasuverse is fine.

Carnival Phantasm never.

Angel Notes adaptation when?

>>51769671
Nah, it's based on his own homebrew system.
Also he worked on a Japanese RPG magazine making side material and adventure prompts

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>>51767725

An HGW is a super cool idea, and the idea of resurrecting ancient heroes to do pokemon battles with is really evocative. As an RPG setting it has a few built-in problems though. What are your players going to be? What are they going to do?

The first idea that usually pops into peoples' minds is to run it as a PVP campaign where everybody makes two characters, a magus and a servant, and they just go at it, kill each other for the grail as they're supposed to. I've seen forum-based RPGs that attempted this. They all crashed and burned. The problem with them is that without the intervention of a writer, _every single fight_ leaves the other side dead. Every single one. And since the number of participants is capped at seven, that means that your whole campaign is going to consist out of six fights or less, and those fights will usually consist out of like one move. Everybody just uses their holy phantasm and it turns into a matter of whose HP beats whose. The loser is out of the game - even if the magus survives, a magus without a servant explicitly cannot win a grail war, and the player will just drop out since he no longer has a stake in it.

(It's also really demoralizing to spend a few hours crafting two characters and just have them blasted out of existence in the literal first minutes of play.)

Are you going to run it as a co-op campaign then? How? You have 4-5 players normally a and the wars have a cap of seven participants. And even with that you still have the problem that fateverse fights, sans plot convenience, are just too lethal, too much of a rock-paper-scissors. Without a writer forcing parties to disengage for no reason and putting in long slice-of-life scenes between battles, the campaign's going to be very brief and violent.

The idea is cool, but I have not seen how it could work as a tabletop game.

>>51769157
Nasu is terribly for TTRPGs because the sheer variety of power levels.
You can have characters capable of ending life on earth walking on the same street as someone like Shirou, and depending on compatibility and ressources Shirou could have a decent chance of winning.
The system would need to have high lethality but also good mechanics for dodging/blocking damage.

>>51769701
This. I'm sick of Fate, it's not even the most interesting Nasu setting

>>51770977
I guess as solution would be have 3 or 4 player teams and use the other pairs as narrative convenience.
If Saber and Lancer are duking out and it looks like they are going to kill each other the GM has Rider and Archer crash the party.

>>51770977
>Are you going to run it as a co-op campaign then? How?
There is literally a book about this.

>>51770977
You could do it like Aprocrypha and have all the players in a faction opposing an NPC one, but that doesn't fix the issue with the battles.

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>>51771091
>>51770977
Having 5-6 players in Servant Master pairs, and the other participants being DM characters would help. Let them design a narrative, some possible twists, third parties to interrupt, pick enemy Servants and Masters to allow interesting but not broken interactions, and maybe some disappearing acts so as to not just have 6 fights max.

System I was working on would have had a block-parry-dodge rock-paper-scissors combat system, and enemies knowing your Sertant's name would allow them a combat and knowledge bonus.

>>51771045
And lethality would be good. High HP values, but penalties for having half and quarter HP so even damage to Servants matter, and the Servants that are notable for ignoring that damage are valuable.

But yeah, that level difference will be a turn-off for a lot of players. You'd have to pick either your players or Servant strengths carefully.

>>51767725
Not at all suitable for a group tabletop rpg.

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According to Typemoon...

LAWFUL GOOD
Amakusa Shirou Tokisada
Bedivere
Chiron
Dr. Jekyll
Gawain
Florence Nightingale
Hippolyta
Ishtar
Joan of Arc
King Arthur
Marie Antoinette
Mashu Kyrielite
Merlin
Queen Nitocris
Quetzalcoatl
Rama
Saint George
Saint Martha
Sakata Kintoki
Solomon
Tristan
Xuanzang

NEUTRAL GOOD
Alexander the Great
Queen Boudica
Brynhild
Geronimo
Illyasviel von Einzbern
Karna
Robin Hood
Scáthach
Tawara no Touta
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Zhuge Liang

CHAOTIC GOOD
Astolfo
Attila the Hun
Beowulf
Euryale
Gilgamesh
Helena Blavatsky
Jing Ke
Leonardo da Vinci
Medusa
Minamoto no Yorimitsu
Miyamoto Musashi
Musashibou Benkei
Nero
Nikola Tesla
Paracelsus
Siegfried
Stheno
Toyotomi Hideyoshi

LAWFUL NEUTRAL
Achilles
Arjuna
Buddha
Cleopatra
Cú Chulainn
Darius III
King David
Diarmuid Ua Duibhne
Hector
Lancelot
King Leonidas
Oda Nobunaga
Solomon ibn Gabirol
Thomas Edison
Vlad III

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>>51773746

TRUE NEUTRAL
Chevalier d'Eon
Enkidu
Fergus mac Róich
Fionn mac Cumhaill
Gaius Julius Caesar
Hans Christian Andersen
Inshun Hozoin
Maxwell's Demon
Okita Souji
Sakamoto Ryoma
Shakespeare
Spartacus

CHAOTIC NEUTRAL
Arash
Billy the Kid
Charles Babbage
Eric Bloodaxe
Frankenstein
Jaguar Man
Mata Hari
Mary Read
Mordred
Ozymandias
Romulus
Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Hashiba Hideyoshi)
Ushiwakamaru

LAWFUL EVIL
Charles-Henri Sanson
Hassan-i-Sabbah (Cursed Arm)
Hassan-i-Sabbah (King)
Hassan-i-Sabbah (Hundred)
Hassan-i-Sabbah (Serenity)
King Arthur (Alter)
King Arthur (Alter Lancer)
Queen Semiramis

NEUTRAL EVIL
Atalanta
Li Shuwen
Medea
Okada Izou
Sasaki Kojiro
Tamamo-no-Mae

CHAOTIC EVIL
Angra Mainyu
Anne Bonny
Caligula
Carmilla
Edmond Dantès
Edward Teach
Elizabeth Bathory
Francis Drake
Fuma Kotaro
Gilles de Rais
Goetia
Hyde
Ibaraki-douji
Jack the Ripper
Kiyohime
Lü Bu
Medb
Mephistopheles
Phantom of the Opera
Tiamat
Shuten-douji

>>51767725
The Grail Wars are in-universe supposed to be rigged & there are exceptions to every rule. It'd be an insane mess.

Having all the players participating in a grail war itself doesn't seem like it would be a good idea for a lot of reasons. One or two of them being a part of it while the others are just someone caught up in it could work I guess. The nasuverse itself would probably be fine as a setting though, since it's basically just weeaboo world of darkness until you get to the future shit

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>>51773746
>CHAOTIC GOOD
>Gilgamesh
every time

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...Tamamo and Atalanta really are Neutral Evil?

Is EMIYA a powergamer?

>>51767725

Remove Wormslut.

>>51774036
>self-centered borderline yandere and evil cat
>not evil

>>51773903
True Ego, more like.

>>51773746
>>51773800
That's a shit load of heroes.
How many grail wars have there been?

I only watched, like, two anime.

>>51773800
>Goetia attempts to give humanity true immortality.
>No death is what makes humanity, humanity.
I swear to Yaweh I hate fucking Solomon with every inch of my being and would've sided with Goetia.

Goetia is the hero humanity deserved.

>>51774357
There has always been atleast 1 Grail War in all timelines that exist.

>>51770972
You forget about chromatic dragons, boy? Or CON-based dragon breath?

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>>51769853
>hating on based Kiritsugu 'I bring guns to a Mage war' Emiya

>>51769202

They literally blow up a building on screen. That's one of the first things that happens.

>>51773746
>Attila the Hun
>Chaotic Good
>Good
The fuck Nasu?

>>51774357
>How many grail wars have there been?

In the main continuity, there has been five official ones plus an unknown amount of copycat rituals. But the spinoffs happen in the future, so no one can tell.

>>51774357
In the main continuity, the fifth war was the last one.
In all the spin offs, it plays fast and loose with the rules.

/tg/ actually hammered out a few Servants a few years ago, but I'm too lazy to try to find the pastebins again.
I'm curious as to how any of them match up with the new heroes that may have been revealed, since that was as far back as Fate/Extra being new.

>>51774087
Kiritsugu, Shirou, Archer or Assassin?

>>51774487
EMIYA refers to the Archer specifically, nerdboy.

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>>51774468
She's also a giantess that's voiced by Mamiko Noto.

>>51774494
Not anymore, it also applies to Assassin Kerry.

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>>51774438

>Muh 6 billion

He cheated on his hot and loyal wife just to make himself feel bad.

>>51774521
I never got into the new shit. Damn, I guess I'm the secondary here.

>>51770977
How about changing the rules, as >>51769157 said?

One player is the master, the rest are servants, every master gets multiple servants. If you have seven players maybe the master is a weak NPC and every player is a servant. All other masters and servants are NPCs.
Also, if like me you think all the genderbending and weird versions of heroes are shit, just ignore Nasuverse and only use the concept of the Grail War in a generic urban fantasy setting. Make your own version of Arthur instead of lugging all the baggage from Arthuria. Also Nasuverse magic is pretty shit.

For system, any superhero system can work.

>>51774546

Fate: Grand Order is trash. Don't bother with it.

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>>51774397
0 - 1
SN - 3
HA - 0.5 (parts of 3rd heaven's feel gets witnessed by Bazett)
Prototype & Fragments - 2
Grand Order - 1.5 (1 whole war + immediate aftermath of another one)
Extra - 1
Strange Fake - 1
Apo - 1
Koha-Ace - 1

Of course there are also number of grail wars that 'ven't appeared on screen so to speak so the actually number is quite bit higher.

>>51774558
I wasn't planning to.

>>51774534
She was going to die anyways. If you can't save 1 and are supposed to feel bad, but aren't, why not give yourself a reason to feel bad.

>>51774534

arranged wedding. it started as a business deal. further, she didn't care. swingers are a thing.

>>51774582

Iri was absolutely loyal, even when she had Saber fawning over her.

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>>51774546
Yeah, as of Fate/Grand Order, and alternate reality Kiritsugu became a Counter Guardian like Shirou did, and because rules are very flexible things in Type-Moon, an alternate Irriesviel is summonable as a Caster.
And even Illya is getting in on it as a Saber, and I think Kuro gets to be an Archer.
So, the entire clan can be together.

Oh, and Rin has become possessed by a fertility goddess.

>>51771045

nasuverse runs on Bullshit over the top japanese spells and calcs

>>51773746
>>51773800

what a load of bullshit

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>>51774606

Ishtarin pleases everything that has a penis.

>>51774606
Tbh a greedy whore getting possessed by a whore goddess is probably the least weird possession in GO.

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>Win the Holy Grail War
>Wish for the Grail to never exist in all timelines that can and cannot exist.
>Grail ceases to exist.
>All timelines get pruned as humanity can't survive another 100 years + Grail Wars never occurring when they are supposed to.

Laugh at Angry Man Jew and Primate Murder for being incapable of doing their jobs better than a human.

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>>51774632
Bring back TOHSAKA

>>51774672

TOHSAKA pleases Alaya for money!

Ohohohohoho!

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Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?

>>51767725

>TFW Emprah and Sailor Moon's presence itself is enough to fuck with Nasuverse due to "LOL Willpower"

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>>51774711

None of the Fate girls can compare to the True Ancestor.

>>51774725
Even Ciel is better than the girls of Fateshit, my dude. You shouldn't even compare Arc to them.

>>51774725
Which is exactly why they didn't go and turn her into yet another saberclone for the remake.

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>>51774767

Saber was a mistake.

besides, this is and always will be Arc.

>>51774558
Isn't it getting anime this year ?

>>51774811

Already got it. It was an animated version of the intro.

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>>51774767
>>51774725
They will turn her into a cocksleeve for Self-Insert though, just like they did Void (Shiki)

>>51774831
Its getting another OVA called Next Order.

>this entire thread

Secondaries, I swear.

In other news, I ran an homebrew campaign that was set in the Extraverse. The Servants were basically NPC.

One of the players ended up getting paired with Medb, the sorry fuck.

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>>51774176
Tamamo only wanted to be a good wife. As for Atalanta... I don't recall a good reason to label her as evil.

>All those historical people just happened to be women.
>Leonardo Da Vinci actually was a guy, but chose to become a woman based on Mona Lisa when he was brought as a Servant.
Does Nasu have a fetish for genderbender?

>>51767725
What would you have to change about the setting in order for it to make a good RPG?

>>51775023

You're seriously asking that question? It's like asking is Takeuchi has a fetish for Saber.

>>51775023

>Implying that japanese doesn't love genderbender shit

>>51768892
>zero
>better than stay night
Zero was just as bad. What actually explores the setting is a more interesting way is the Kara no Kyoukai novels/films. They give you a much better idea of how magic works in the setting from the perspective of mages.

>>51775049
-Tone down the power levels.
-Tone down Noble Phantasm.
-Let the War have actual rules to follow.
-Keep everybody the correct gender.
-Keep history to real life for the most part.
-Magic for Masters has to be good in order to become a candidate for war and tone down the magic system.
-Remove historic/legendary figures eternally falling in love with highschooler cock.

>>51775092
KnK explores a different universe though, one with low human foundation value.

>>51774725
Everybody knows Fate's strong suit are the boys.

>>51774548
how about the reverse ?
the players are a bunch of mage cooperating with each others, and try to get the grail
you can even tweak the shit like each player get one command seal
it's not like the original setting makes any sense anyway, i think you should just take the premise and do whatever it inspires you

>>51775114
>KnK
>different universe
Nigga what?

>>51775180

There can only be one set of Mysticv Eyes of Death perception. So if Shiki has them, then Shiki can't also have them. Hence different universes.

>>51775180
>he doesn't know

that's what you get for pretending GO had no plot.

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>>51774811
>>51774831
and it's like fate, but the bad aspects are actually worse
the main protag is even worse self-insert/generic harem hero/retard beyond retardation, think of shirou at is worst in the fate anime by deen
there is also a cute mascot stupidly frilly and a girl
the fights are the only interesting thing, just like most things with fate, because who doesn't like mythical figure beating the crap of each other with the power of japanimation ?

>>51774087
EMIYA knew how broken Gilgamesh was going to be in the game and specifically built his character to counter the most powerful enemy. Then he got really into the roleplay with the guy who was playing as Shirou and got sidetracked by 1v1ing Hercules/hijacking the session with Shirou/needing to drop out but wanting to make sure his BS powers were still usable in game.

>>51775248

EMIYA also set it up so his past self could have a threesome with both the girls he was attracted to.

>>51775240
ho, and i forget the servant girl, which is as insufferable as harem protag number 185663

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>>51775278

We should have got Gudako. Psycho Gacha addict and Lesbian Molestor.

>>51767725
I think too many people retread F/SN too much when there's several other takes on the HGW available.

Or you know, make up a Singularity and make the rules wacky.

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>>51775278
>Hating on based Gallahad
You sure are a faggot.

>>51775135
Three mages, one servant?
That could work with a little comedy, actually.
>Be mage with two friends.
>Decide to enter the grail war, cause you have a relic.
>Friend A decides he's a better fighter, steals the relic
>Get friend B and stop A from making ritual
>B starts the ritual for himself while you are busy arguing with A.
>All of you start chanting at the same time, trying to finish the ritual.
>Servant appears, starts asking the question. Stops, gets confused as fuck
>"Are you my... masters? What?"
>You and your friends all have a single seal each.

>>51775378
>Fuck you A! I don't give two shits if that Berserker MIGHT kill us all, if I use the Command spell then YOU WILL KILL ME

>You stupid retard C! So long as B has a Command Spell then I need MY Command Spell to stop him from killing ME with HIS Command Spell.

>How do I know you and B aren't working together?! What if he already burnt HIS Command Spell and said that Saber can never kill either of you two meaning YOUR Command Spell is now free to order Saber to kill me UNLESS I have my Command Spell ready to use to order to Saber to NOT kill me!

>For God's sake C! B is very well aware that I might double cross him with you because two command spells have more power than one! He would never risk diluting his command spell ordering Saber to not kill TWO people. He needs to keep it ready for an emergency LIKE THIS ONE YOU INSUFFERABLE PARANOID GIT.

>Masters, I am very confused.

>>51773746
>>51773800

Most of these alignments feel really wonky when you see how they interact with Guda(ko) during Valentine's.

>>51769202
Daily reminder that Saber takes two command seals if she doesn't want to, and several Berserkers require you to use all three command seals at once.

Frankly it seems the few Berserkers that are reasonable to work with are like, Mama, Kintoki, Kiyohime and Frankenstein.

>>51775624
>Mama
>Kiyohime

I understand that you want to fuck with secondaries, but this is taking it too far.

>>51775649
>controllability
Spartacus and Beowulf are a problem as bad as Berserker Herc.

>>51775741
>beowulf
>hard to control
>with ME E-

At least they won't roast you alive in a bell. I do agree with Spartacus though, he's bananas.

>>51775741
Not to mention that summoning Beowulf means that you also summon a powerful shapeshifting monster with him.

>>51774623
>>51774606
Gil-Luvia when

>>51775811

Never. And even if, it would be like Smeagol-Gollum.

>But I want to fuck Rin!
>I'm not touching Ishtar with a 10 foot pole

>>51775768
That means Vlad and Kintoki are pretty much the least difficult Berserkers to handle?

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>>51767725
>What does /tg/ think of the Holy Grail War as a setting?
Them doujins man...

>>51776000
this isn't actually a dojen anon. Just your usual illya manga

>>51775972
Vlad will kill you if you disrespect him but beyond that he is pretty chill.

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>>51776000

>what if we took a serious VN
>then, what if we took some random, unimportant side character...
>and then, what if we made her, and all her irrelevant friends lesbians
>prisma illya

a complete insult to the Fate franchise.

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>>51773746

>CHAOTIC GOOD
>Gilgamesh

>>51776094
>will kill you if you disrespect him

That can be said for a huge amount of servants across the spectrum of alignments.

I think the only ones who can take being disrespected are Buddha, Jekyll, Angry, Frankenstein and Redman.

>>51776149
What about Caster Gil?

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>>51767725
I think that wormslut should go.

>>51776212

Oh god this brings back memories.

>>51776149
Alignment is more how they were seen at the time than what they actually are.

>>51773746
>>51776149
Polite reminder that Nasu's alignment grid is not D&D's alignment grid.

>>51776305
>trying to teach stuff to zerotards
Give it up

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>>51776235

>>51775092
To be honest the magic and powers system in Type Moon is some of the most exaggerated nonsense lore I've seen in a non homemade/fanfiction story, up there with a religious denomination being a fighting style in Index. I like Zero, including from a setting point of view because of how it establishes more lore about the mage's association and the church via Kayneth/Waver, the conduct of the grail war, and Kerry's backstory. Granted I haven't read Tsukihime, but in this regard I find it a better grounded story than FSN and KnK, because it feels like the surrounding society isn't just conveniently absent all the time and there is some sensible anchoring on how the events of Zero's story fit into the broader world of magic as a whole.

>>51776531
It's already been established that neither the Association nor the Church care about the far east in general, much less Japan. That's why they are "conveniently absent". As far as the greater world is concerned, the Holy Grail War is a backwater ""miracle ritual"" that people go to and never return from. It's seen as a scam at best.

>>51775378
perfect
>>51775330
''gallahad'' is only here for being a damsel in distress and fapbait

>>51775198
>>51775211
No that's explained in Notes;. Shiki at this point no longer has them and shiki has them instead.

>>51776790

But if Shiki has them instead of Shiki, what about Shiki?

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>>51776099
the fate franchise is already an insult to himself.
i mean, THIS is supposed to be attila, the scourge of the gods
the concept of letting mythological hero beat the crap out of each other whith mages all competing in a survival game/battle royal is awesome, and has been utterly wasted

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>>51767725
It's workable, with some caveats.

First off, and most importantly, you need an extremely creative and fast-thinking DM, and you need players who are good at lateral thinking, prioritize roleplay over pure mechanics, and are willing to accept DM fiat as a valid trump to player agency. Why? Because every Holy Grail War, from an in-character perspective, is an exercise in rules-lawyering bullshit and outrageous coincidences. You need a DM who's willing to come up with interruptions to stop combat for the first half of the campaign - you need players who will take a hint when that happens. You need a DM who can tweak an RPG system to work for the setting, and who can then layer on a set of in-game rules for magic and superpowers that the players are supposed to cheat. Remember, every hero is overpowered in their own way - you need to have a DM who can make a party of utterly broken characters work.

Second, you need to think very hard about your party dynamic. Decide whether the players will be mages, heroes, or both - I recommend heroes only, because it gives the DM a way to force that take-a-hint moment when a fight needs to break off, and the heroes are usually the most mechanically interesting. But you may care more about what the mages are fighting for.

You also need to establish a reason for an alliance so that it doesn't immediately become PvP - that means you can't have a party bigger than 3 or 4 players, because you need the DM to be running some NPC participants, including the dumbass who expects everyone else to play by the rules, the complete monster who serves as an initial antagonist, and the real threat who needs to be defeated at the climax of the story proper before the party figures out how to adjudicate the wish-granting (which may well be PvP, but you want that to be a very small part of the overall campaign, and one not worth optimizing too much for).

Pic unrelated.

>>51769657
>Joan of Arc is how powerful?

To be fair, she always was a "Truth is stranger than fiction" sorta deal, and her noble phantasm, the strong thing, is a reenactment of her getting burnt at the stake, death and all.

In her case, that ones fairly accurate.

>>51774495
>setting
She's also an alien weapon that killed an entire patheon

>>51775023
No, Nasu actually hates it (like, going by interviews when Takeuchi suggested they should make King Arthur a girl to sell more copies nasu "glared [at Takeuchi] as if he had suggested that Guts, from Berserk, should be a woman").
It's just that he loves money much more than he cares about historical accuracy.

>>51774534
well, if you trust kaleid, kiritsugu crashed and burned the entire grail war in that world.

so there's that.

>>51774606
>kuro gets to be an archer

Who'da guessed.

>>51776825
Shiki becomes literally a god at some point. At that point, she doesn't need them. Thus, they went to the other shiki.

>>51776842
Hey, talk shit about historical accuracy all you want, she was fucking cute.

A rose by any other name and all that shit

>>51767725
You will face the natural problem of
> I want to bury my sword in king arthur's stone
Also
> Why aren't we doing the lesbian loli magical girl setting?
Best stick to non-anime inspired stuff to avoid fetishbait

>>51777021
If Guts was a girl it would still be good. And it would make more sense for Griffith to want her.

Also: >Not wanting Casca and Guts lesbian sex.

>>51767725
I think Nasu is a fucking hack and that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Ilya was okay but only because it was cute girls doing cute things also raging lesbos

>>51777407
And Bazett.

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>>51777479

>>51776790
The idea of low human foundation value VS high human foundation value was developed only recently though.

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>>51777575

>>51777763

I'm guessing whoever writes this has a major hard on for Bazett, given the levels of wankery involved.

Never watched it, but this thread makes it sound dumb as shit.

>>51767725
If I ever had to run a Grail War, I'd probably run it with World of Darkness. It's rules light enough to make stuff work, their Mage rules can be tweaked up for Origins and Elements, and you could splice on some Exalted rules for Servants.

To handle the power balance, you've got a few options:
1: Balance? lolwut? Just let the PVP flow through you. Very time consuming, as I imagine people will want to speak privately or pass a lot of notes.
2: Small group vs. major threat. Pretty much what the VN spiraled into, but you'll need a mature group that agrees that that's what they're going for.
3: Freelancers contracted to support the Einzberns. This has potential I feel. Disposable operators who are there to provide extra intelligence, firepower, emergency prana, whatever. Probably needs a carefully written geas scroll so that they don't just turn on their employer, but has a way out so it's not a railroad.
4: Things just get weird.
>51775378
5: Solo/Duo game. Simplest answer, can be easy enough

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>>51777866
It's one of those things that sounds dumb but works in its writing. It can never be described in an adequate way.
A lot of people baselessly hate Fate/Grand Order for a similar reason, when they've never read it. Because Nasu is a writer who loves to take goofy concepts and play with them and write a compelling story with them.

>>51777866
It became dumber at after each installment

>>51777855
She fought Lancer to a draw. What's a shitty pseudo-servant to her?

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>>51777763

>>51777931

That just makes my complaint even more valid.

>>51777973
Read HA already you secondary

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>>51777973
It doesn't. Read HA.

>>51777855
In hollow ataraxia she was on par with servants.

>>51777973
You wanna know why this is wrong?

Because in original stay night she was the first person to get gibbed, before the shit even hit the fan.

>>51777049
I don't know much about Kaleid. How badly did Kiritsugu fuck shit up?

>>51778081
You mean in terms of shitting up everything or being a badass?

If you mean how much of a badass he was then 'It is a mystery.jpg'

Otherwise, it's actually a really noblebright place.

>>51769157
My friend did this. I played a female Fenrir beserker.

The idea was their was a claim that beserkers are impossible to rp as because mad enhancement makes them robots. I countered this by using Glephnir as a mad enhancement suppresing noble phantasm and kicked ass in a straight jacket.

>>51778081
He annihilated the grail war as a thing. The einzberns as a noble mage family are dead, the grail war permanently fucked, and he's off doing mage shit somewhere in the world with his hot german wife.

Slight spoiler, but the only reason shit is hitting the fan in kaleid is because of parallel world shenanigans.

>>51776149
Fate alignment is from the perspective of the time period and civilization of the character being summoned. Gilgamesh came from an era when might made right and was the strongest motherfucker around. Everything he does is considered "good" because he motherfucking Gilgamesh. That's how it was back then, and that's how the chart labels them now.

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>>51777897

Hatesex when?

>>51778144
Oh. Holy shit Kerry.

>>51778284
Yep. There's a reason Rin is trying to apprentice under zelretch rather than summoning a servant for the war.

>>51767725
The only good thing to come out of TypeMoon universe is Carnival Phantasm. There, I've said it.

>>51778339
But thats wrong on a factual level. If nothing else, at least kara no kyoukai is worth something.

>>51778046
Wouldn't she be utterly wrecked by a servant that abstains from using their most powerful attack or feints using it?

>>51778069
>To get gibbed.
In the original stay night she was stray servant from the previous war, and was suppose to be Saber's rival who Shirou could follow.

Stop spreading misinformation.

>>51778402
she would, but this thread is full of idiots who have no idea what they're talking about, see >>51778069

>>51778423
There's nothing incorrect in that post.

>>51778402
Fragarach has a 'normal' mode as well where it just launches a blast of energy. It doesn't do much damage in a single shot but if Bazett has all 5 of her orbs lined up then it can do some serious damage.

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>>51767725
Archah>all

>>51778456
there's plenty wrong with that post, since apparently the one who posted it doesn't understand that the only chance Bazett has against a Servant is her one trick pony.

Of course she gets killed by Kotomine, that's the man she loves and trusts.

>>51767725
Idk about the setting, only knowing the general idea, but Khârn for berserker

Any good systems for playing a game somewhat like this that ISN'T Exalted?

>>51778494
The posts states that she died before the war even started, which is true.

>>51778408
I dunno what the canon was meant to be at some obscure point, but as it stands right now, this minute, she was the master of lancer in the 5th grail war, and got killed before it even started.

>>51778494
The main point is that the original argument is that whoever was writing it really liked bazett. I'm saying thats probably not correct since she'd died before the grail war even actually started.

>>51778518
that part is true, I am saying the context in which this was said is wrong though.

>>51778537
Wut?

You're saying that the writer of Kaleid doesn't like Bazett because she died before the 5th war started?

No wait, I kind of understand. And I know why you're wrong.

Kaleid has a completely different writer to the original FSN. The argument is thus completely irrelevant.

>>51778537

Bazett is shown to be a nasty bugger to face in HA. Nasu said that she could outfight Soichiro if she survived his first strike.

>>51778595
Well yeah. Their style at its core is pretty similar.

>>51778580
How is it you got that one right but thought bazett was ever a servant?

>>51778616
Ok now I'm confused again. Who in the hell ever said Bazett was a servant?

>>51778636
this guy >>51778408

If you aren't him, my bad.

>>51778636

I believe Boudicca is a Bazett clone, but that would be about it.

>>51778645
Ah.

I'm not sure what that idiot is on about either, there's practically no crossover in design between Mashu and Bazett.

>>51778675
Or gilgamesh, for that matter.

Its like he confused like, 4 different characters for one that had no relation to any of them.

>>51778650
Boudicca is garbage in FGO

>>51775110
>-Keep history to real life for the most part.

This basically removes all mythological characters. Destroying the core concept.

>>51779862
> Implying the God of war George Washington wouldn't stomp the competition regardless.

>>51778537
>I dunno what the canon was meant to be at some obscure point, but as it stands right now, this minute, she was the master of lancer in the 5th grail war, and got killed before it even started.

And as it stands, she would have utterly destroyed Kotomine in a real fight. She trusted him completely and he stabbed her in the back.

Saying that this makes her weaksauce is like saying that a master swordsman is weak for being killed in his sleep.

>>51779899
Anon, you're obviously not a master swordsman if you can't eliminate the population of a small city while asleep.

>>51779878

I thought Edison was the avatar of all the Presidents. Except Trump.

Medusa is cute

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>>51782297

Most think that.

>>51782399
Get the FUCK away from Medusa, Rin.

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>>51782593

Medusa wants it as much as Rin does.

>>51782593
Medusa, Euryale, Stheno, Medusa Lilly, and Gorgon please Gudao for Mana.

>>51782697

Gudako rapes Medusa, Euryale, Stheno, Medusa Lilly, and Gorgon for fun.

>>51769247
Muh negro

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>>51782399
>>51782593
>>51782635

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>>51776582
Well that's partially true. The Holy Grail War of Fuyuki is not the only Holy Grail War. The name and status of the Holy Grail is given to any relic of sufficient power. The Church sends executors to each and every potential Holy Grail to oversee it and determine whether to seal it via the sealing agency, whether or not it is the One True Holy Grail and maintain order. That's why Kirei (A former Burial Agency member) was the overseer in Fuyuki.

>>51773840
>When "Ivory tower" design is a feature

"We don't want anybody not a part of our secrit club winning this, so these 3 are the only good classes, and this one is the wildcard just in case someone not us summons one of those classes before we do".

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>>51782593
>OLD
>MEN
>FOR
>GEMS

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>>51782788

Rin and Rider clearly have a thing for one another. Is there a problem with that?

>>51775023
From memory the original StayNight was going to have a female MC with a male Saber, but then he was convinced people wouldn't buy an "action/fightan" VN where the MC gets fucked instead of the other way around.

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>>51782807

Luvia's just salty she'll never get to be the one to make Rin squeal.

>>51776099
Doesn't it have Shirou being a badass to protect people more than once?

>>51782829
Delete this before I delete you

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>>51774623
>Ishtar pleases everything that has a penis
Be careful what you wish for... No one survives Ishtar`s divine sexuality in all its glory during the Final Dance. Resistance in the face of perfection is not a possibility.

>>51782866

You've never been in a Prisma thread on /a/ before have you?

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>>51782944

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>>51782869

Rin's not the only one Rider's gunning for.

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>>51782969

>>51782953
I've been in Fate/Type-moon threads, and every now and then there's a page posted that's Shirou making a comment about protecting his sister or something and it looks like he's either going to kick untold amounts of ass because they don't want to "level up" the MC, or he's going to get bodied on the next page and just be a bloody pulp so someone else can be the hero.

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>>51782980

>>51782997

>>51776099 is troll pasta posted in almost every Prisma thread on /a/. You'd have missed it because it's usually deleted. It's a recurring joke in Prisma threads when it's posted.

>It only takes 60 yrs to set up for a Grail War.
>You can speed it up by having a large pool of mana and using live sacrifices in a city full of millions.

So who the fuck is stopping some magus from illegally conducting a Holy Grail War in New York City or some other place?

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>>51783081

Arc and Gil look like they could be brother and sister.

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>>51783083
The Church and the Magus Association wouldn't permit it, and then you'd have a lot of problems on your hands. Likely a sealing designation too. More pressingly, you'd have to find a Holy Grail artefact that hasn't already been found by the Church.

>>51783169

Ciel's one hell of a badass. A shame she's become mostly a joke. She even made the redman red.

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>>51783181
I like her too, and it's a shame about how she became such a one note gag character. Probably the only thing I dislike coming from Carnival Phantasm. Fuck Ciel's "Good Ending", and fuck you Nasu. Give Senpai her glasses back in the redesign

It really is a shame that her route is mostly worldbuilding.

>>51783181
Church executors exclusively produce badasses.

>>51783083
The various conspiracies keeping magic secret/in check mostly. The church and association are the major fate ones, but there's also Atlas and probably some random unknown ones since Japan is specifically noted as bumfuck nowhere as far as the magical community is concerned

>>51783169
>Church and Magus Association wouldn't permit it.
>World was about to end twice if it wasn't for some guys with a Hero Complex saving it.
>All of humanity was straight up killed and was brought back because the literal Solomon, Yaweh, and random Who had to intervene to save everyone.

They can't do actual shit.

>>51783262
I haven't played Tsukihime in a while, which one was Ciel's good ending? The one were she plays second fiddle to Arc or the one where Arc promises to murder you?

>>51783335

The one were she plays second fiddle to Arc. Arc just swoops in and says "Shiki's mine now bitch."

>>51783083
Also if the shit you were doing was really serious then the Counter Force might show up to ruin your day.

>>51783334
>FGO
>Starts out with the world being destroyed by a literal deus ex machina piloted by a demon after it's controller incarnated
>implying Alaya wouldn't have deployed counter guardians if Angry Manjew had ever actually incarnated via the Holy Grail and retconned it
Also, the Church was involved in both said times, FGO notwithstanding. The former of which no-one knew that Angry Manjew had corrupted the Grail, and in the later the Executor involved was a mentally broken psycho specifically hiding the fact of Angry Manjew and was trying to see him be born to help solve a personal philosophical problem.

>>51775198
>>51775211
Even if its not the same universe as the one(s) where the events of Fate and Tsukihime take place, it still has the exact same rules and lore.

>>51776149
>>51778156
Also Gil was too pure and was corrupted by the Grail and Modern World

>>51783436
How dare the internet ruin such a pure good boy.

>>51783394
Doesn't the Counter Force only show up when you're planning on ending humanity?

>>51783447
Or life on earth, I don't really understand if those are separate departments though as I don't really get the whole alaya/type earth shit and it seems more trouble than it's worth to make sense of

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>>51783436
>>51783446
It's more that everyone these days is a normal human. He comes from Uruk, at the height of the Age of the Gods when man was incredible. All mages were casters of a tier comparable to Medea, and yet nowadays there is not a single Magus alive who could actually hold a candle to her in a magecraft battle. The only ones who might even stand a chance are the few Mages who posses true Magic, such as Aoko or Zelretch and as to whether they're human or alive is a big debate as the Counter Force itself claims that the 5th is not something that can be achieved by humans or the planet.

All Gil wants to do is return humanity to it's true state as it was in his time when they were great.

>>51783512
>return humanity to it's true state as it was in his time when they were great
So in essence, make humanity great again?

>>51783539
Unironically yes. Humanity is literal siht compared to what it was and for this reason he's got the Good alignment. He is trying to better humanity.

>>51783447
They show up whenever what you're doing could lead to humanity's end. If a mage ends up breaking Gaia's Laws too hard, then Gaia will notice and might just wipe out all of humanity in a measure of self-defense. For example, trying to brute force a route to the Root would break Gaia's laws too obviously and egregiously, so the Counter Force steps in before things get out of hand. This is why the experiments to reach the Root have to be incredibly obtuse and subtle.

>>51783512
>Humanity was great back in the Age of Gods.
No we weren't. We were constantly shit on and had only a few true (Pure) Humans rise above the shit being flung around.

Age of Gods was a big circlejerk. Humanity has made more advances in this current age than ever in the Age of Gods. Gil is just being a tyrannical faggot.

>>51783582
>Tfw you start a Holy Grail War for the sole purpose of getting humanity as far away from Gaia/Alaya and its shitty ass history on it, to another planet across the vast ocean of stars to start anew with no interference from anything already set up on Earth.
>You get Counter Guardianed
Just fuck my shit up fampie.

>>51783573
I'm pretty sure his alignment is just due to the legend he comes from, and how his motivations have changed since being summoned aren't really reflected. Fate Gil is just kind of weird in general. It sort of makes sense if he's supposed to be Gilgamesh right after Enkidu died and he's at the high of bitchfitdom I guess, but I'm pretty sure it's easiest to explain by him seeming like a cool final boss for a story where heroes fight each other

>>51783582
Wasn't there also something in KnK that a mage who actually reaches the root doesn't really have a reason to exist anymore and just sort of zero summon anyway?

>>51783633
>would have to somehow hijack another Type's powers or generate power comparable to a Type to create a reality marble
>implying Gaia would just allow humanity to start somewhere new and live on beyond its lifespan
>implying its possible to escape Gaia(or whatever Type manifests)/Alaya (Humanity's collective survival instinct) conflict

As long as its possible for humanity's ambition to to surpass its will to survive, the conflict will never disappear

>>51783686
Sort of. Any mage that reaches the Root never returns from it, because its basically reaching Nirvana.
A mage viewing the Root is never the issue, the problem is getting there.

>>51783694
>Gaia will kill humanity if it puts it in danger.
>When humanity tries to leave Gaia be and do thing somewhere else she won't let them.
The fuck is Gaia's problem? She a tsundere + yandere?

>>51783717
Gaia has known for most of it's existence that it will die at the hands of humanity, and they will ride its corpse through the stars. It doesn't want this, so it called all the TYPEs is knew and said "Hey come kill the fuck out of my murderers."
As for being unable to leave, that's unknown. Gaia would probably not care, Alaya maybe. If it happens, anyone able to do so would immediately become the TYPE-Earth though, as a TYPE is merely a life-form able to survive outside of the Reality Marble of its planet.

>>51769354
>run into mage and servant, everyone dies

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>>51783098
take it back

TAKE IT BACK

>>51783083

Because you need the power of the Third Magic to fucking make a Holy Grail War. The thing only works because Justeaze Einzbern has been its core Heaven's Feeling the heroic spirits into their vessels for 200 plus years.

The only reason other people can make Grails in Aporcrypha if I remember correctly is because the secret of Heaven's Feel is unlocked by the mage community at large via secret info about the Grail's structure being leaked by the Nazi Mage who stole the original from Fuyuki. As alluded to in the VN, knowledge of it becoming commonplace and the inevitable discovery of the mechanism that makes it possible (when the whole point of a True Magic is to do something that is impossible by known physical/magical/scientific laws) takes away all its Mystery and it just becomes another spell anyone can do. Even then none of the garbage Grails the scrubs around the world made could summon more than 5 Servants and never got to the point of granting a wish, let alone opening the path to the root. The Einzberns were in the process of making a new 7-Servant Grail but it was far from complete.

>>51769354

So Rider can have sex with you in an alleyway because you are a sexy tomboy archery captain.

So Caster can mess with your memories and make you uncomfortable in public because you consider her husband your brother and sometimes have impure thoughts not befitting a future monk about her.

So Lancer can be exasperated when you point out how few fish he's managed to catch because you are a blunt-talking loli with no tact.

So you can be in love with Shirou because you saw him trying to jump over a hi-jump bar in middle school no matter how many times he screwed up.

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>>51783903

>>51783860
>Even then none of the garbage Grails the scrubs around the world made could summon more than 5 Servants and never got to the point of granting a wish, let alone opening the path to the root
Why not just create a whole bunch of 5 Servant Grails and then connect them all into one system making a mega Grail that will only activate once all the Grails you set up are won?

>>51783860
But the original HGW of Fuyuki was to recover the 3rd Magic that the Einzberns lost. How can the HGW need HF, when HF was and is the goal for two of the three founders. Even Illya doesn't have full usage of the 3rd.

>>51769657

Why is it weird that Nero's noble phantasm is a weird conceptual whatever instead of some actual sword she had in real life? Why is it weird that Joan is powerful when she's one of the most famous legends on earth? Why is it weird for Shakespeare as a heroic spirit to have physical abilities beyond what he actually had in real life, Avenger had E Str too.

And Jack is an awesome concept. How can anyone not like the amalgamated ghosts of all the children killed during the industrial revolution possessing an unwanted prostitute's child and giving her all the powers of deadly smog, knives and identity erasure along with an unquenchable desire to kill women who are of a kind with her mother so she can return to the womb? That's a great Jack The Ripper concept. Also she learned how to be a doctor from studying the bodies she mutilated! Jack is a good girl.

>>51783978
>Why is it weird that Joan is powerful when she's one of the most famous legends on earth?
>one of the most famous legends on earth
>this is what frogs actually believe

>>51783961

The War was to recover the 3rd Magic for the family at large (or allow the Tohsaka's to discover a magic of their own by reaching the root or to allow hot young Zouken to get laid, depending on who you ask), but Justeaze Einzbern could use an incomplete form of it, which is where the concept of the Grail came from. Remember, the Tohsaka's only provided the land and the Matou's only created the Command Spells. The Servant system was all Justeaze, and it needs HF to work because it involves taking a soul and moving it into a vessel. The Fuyuki Greater Grail only works because some fragment of her body/mind/soul/whatever is inside it in a weird not-really-living-but-not-dead-form doing the most important thing for the last two centuries.

Illya can't use the "real," HF because she's just the latest clone of Justeaze and it gets worse every time, but she's a LOT of itterations later. Back when they invented this shit it was still workable, but no new Einzbern since then as far as we know would be capable of being the core of a Greater Grail.

>>51783753
Hold the fuck up. Planets are reality marbles?

>>51784047

Ilya's not a complete clone. She's half normal human. She was born naturally, not created the way most Einzburn Homunculi were.

>>51784047
The Tohsaka's provided both the land and the Servants though. The Einzberns created the grail and prepared its Vessel and the Makiri's made the Command Seals.
>>51784051
Yeah, Earth is just a barren rock covered in the Reality Marble of Gaia that humans live in.

>>51784055

Maybe that's why she can use HF well enough to save Shirou. Its never even implied that Iri was capable of doing something like that, she was just there to be the Cup.

>>51784079

No, the Tohsaka's only provided the land. Nagato Tohsaka was such a lame mage he couldn't even help with the ritual directly, they needed to use his daughter for his part of the Greater Grail's physical construction.

The Servants are a product of the grail, it prepares the vessels, calls forth the Heroic Spirits from the Throne, and puts them inside. That last part is what you need HF for. Its only possible because of Justeaze, and even then she was only able to achieve a form where she could do that much by sacrificing her "human life," and becoming a being without mind or will that simply processes the grail's functions.

The grail only gained any kind of will of its own when the Manjew got inside. Then again, Illya and those of her line seem to have some kind of link to Justeaze and all the prior Grail Vessels who's minds got dissolved into the Grail when their time to go Cup Mode came, which the main family doesn't know about. That's how Illya is able to channel her voice to speak to Zouken in HF, among other bits.

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I feel that you could run a slow play-by-post game similar to the classic 7 free for all, but what's a good setup to actual run at a table weekly?
4-6 players split between masters and servants in some kind of alliance? Nasuverse's rules are no rules and it's table canon anyways, so they could be a small faction out of a big mess like Apocrypha, or even some bollocks "hundreds of servants" battle royale. I just think it'd be better for servants to be RPed by separate people, and also to have the players work together, mostly.
What would be a good system for this? Something based on ability buying to give lots of variant options? It seems like something that'd be more fun as a bit complex in combat, rather than fast and loose like...well, FATE.

>>51784168

If I were doing a week by week PNP for Fate, I would strongly consider having a team of Mages/Normies with one player I trust playing the Servant, or making the Servant a DMPC so the players have to take their relationship with him into account.

The obvious problem with the later one is that the players don't get to do the coolest stuff, but the Fate series is all about the normal mortals finding their way through the war and their relationships with their Servants. The only real purpose of the Servants fighting other servants is to resolve PHILOSOPHICAL DISAGREEMENTS or HONORABLE DUELS. Good players should relish the challenge of being so outmatched by their primary enemies and their best weapon being kind of out of their direct control. Also, you have to be a good GM and make sure your DMPC is not the fucking star of the show. The Protagonists of Fate are Shirou and Kiritsugu, Saber is critically important but she is not the lead.

I would think a highly narrative system like Fate (hah) would be best because the name of the game in Nasuland is bending the rules and using drama and grit to overcome what should be guaranteed death.

>>51784168
Apocryha style 7v7 featuring lots of mooks. Apo had Dragon Soldiers and Golems for said mooks. Naturally, your table would be either Red or Black team.

>>51767725
honestly the only thing I'd actually take from Nasuverse for an RPG would be the whole Servant concept(although I'd toss out some of the rules relating to them), I'd ditch the Holy Grail War and most of the other aspects of the setting cause they just wouldn't work in an RPG context

>>51769701
eh a friend once tried running a game set in the non Fate parts of the setting and it ended up so bland and boring that the game fell apart in a couple games(and I dropped out after the first one) probably didn't help that he was using BRP as a system though(because that system just isn't fun at all from a mechanical aspect), honestly Nasuverse isn't really all that interesting outside of a couple really crazy parts

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>>51774486
>/tg/ actually hammered out a few Servants a few years ago, but I'm too lazy to try to find the pastebins again.
here's one of them;


Assassin: Fantomas

A man whose crimes were so legendary and grotesque that upon his death at a ripe old age any record of him was expunged, banishing the memory of him into fiction, for a man this vile and unpunished could only exist in nightmares.

Master of Disguise: His features and voice are his to mold! You may be safer all alone!

Collection of Crime: The tools of the cruel! IgNoble Phantasms! The world is sabotaged, a giant trap which you can never escape! Plague-infested rats, Acid Sprays, Poisoned Food, Giant Snakes, Rooms that fill with sand, Booby Trapped Clothes!

Maestros of Demise: His popularity as a fictional icon has only made him stronger and has allowed him to bypass that pesky barrier preventing his ilk from infiltrating! A wretched version of Zabaniya, bringing forth his equally powerful and repugnant successors to enter the fray! Satanik! Diabolik! Sadik! Kriminal! Demoniak! Mister X! Zakimort!

Dark Saint: Fantomas escapes death! Fantomas escapes justice! Fantomas escapes, endures, and eventually prevails. Such is the power of fame and notoriety.

Pray you never meet him, or worse, corner him, think you've won, because he will say in the language of his choice:
"Fantomas never fails."

What terrible fate has befallen Hassan? We can pray it was a quick one.

>>51775198
less there can only be one more the odds of even one set are so abysmally small that having 2 would be a statistical anomaly of the highest calibur

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>>51784291
I'm personally a fan of picrelated.

>>51773800
>medea
>evil

i know nasu isnt the best at these things, but gilgamesh is good while she is considered evil?

>>51786062
Because in her myth at the end she becomes full-blown evil witch. (After a lot of murders)

>>51773746
>>51773800
>>51786062

To be fair, from an in-universe perspective, the only thing that could have given data on everyone's alignment is the Throne/Alaya itself, which is likely going to be weigh things in a horribly weird way compared to actual humans' perspective of things.

>>51786410
in her myth yes, but if i remember correctly the actual servant/person just took the blame for every bad thing that happened around her - like a proto angry majew

>>51783334
The world is always ending on Nasu verse anon.
Some mage trying to reach the origin of all things is always trying t odestroy anything.
If Araya had succeeded the world would have ended.
Kiritsugo's dad started an zombie apocalypse by accident.
Nathalia almost had a zombie apocalypse transmited by bees on NY.
The Third, Forth and Fifth grail wars almost ended with the end of the world.
Arcueid can always get pissed and bring the moon down on earth.
ORT could awake up from her nap and murder everyone ad turn earth's surface into solid crystal.
etc

>>51783594
The idea is that there's only so much soul stuff to go around, if there's more people living then the average person has less soul stuff and thus is lesser

>>51774623

FOR FREE

>>51786650
Nah, she absolutely turned into a witch out of desire for revenge. I'd call it justice, personally after what happened but turning into an evil witch who then has to be slayed is still E for Evil.

>>51783396
>>implying Alaya wouldn't have deployed counter guardians if Angry Manjew had ever actually incarnated via the Holy Grail and retconned it

FGO's Fate/Zero arc did send Kerry as a CG, guns and all, to put down Iri.

>>51783633
If Extella and Extra CCC is any indicator, this doesn't happen.

>>51783594
>>Humanity was great back in the Age of Gods.

Humans really didn't have their own free will back then, wasn't it? They had the gods to decide everything for them, until Gil came along.

>>51783717
>>51783753

What is /vg/ blurbing about Extella where the Moon Cell is the "new Earth" ?

>>51786906
Pretty sure that's /vg/ being dumb as per norm.
iirc; On the moon, there is the Moon Cell. A supercomputer simulating a copy of reality that also has a copy of the throne (sort of). Extra, CCC and Extella take place inside the simulated reality that is inside the Moon Cell

>>51784168
>even some bollocks "hundreds of servants" battle royale

So E Pluribus Unum across the entire American continent?

>>51786869
>>51783396
You need to be updated with new lore. Merlin explains what makes Heroic Spirits and Counter Guardians different in the Garden of Avalon, latter one are bottom tier shitters, by the way, born from despair, while Heroic Spirits are chosen champions of hope who answer humanity's prayers and function as guardian angels now. The Human Order, not Alaya, chooses who becomes a Heroic Spirit. The human order was a creation/system by King Solomon apparently. One of his many legacies.

Church and Association seem to be very disappointing when his reborn self picked Chaldea as his true heirs. He brought the miracles the Church uses and the magecraft magus wield, and both groups are shitty. Waver exists to revamp that piece of shit Clock Tower someday.

This is Fate setting. Tsukihime setting is a parallel franchise which isn't set in the same world anymore. Nasu retconned Arc and the DAA from Fate.

>>51786945
>>51786906
Extella name is Engrish of Ex Terra. The Moon is becoming the new Earth in Extella. It's a theory explored by Sion's sister (I forgot her name) who died (Sion died at birth) later who said humans could become spiritron and live in the mooncell. She was proved right.

>>51786888
>until Solomon came along.
Fixed it for you. Solomon described his times as most people having no sense of individuality either. While the Age of Gods began to crumble with the Sefar, the Age of Men began with him. Because Yawheh, through Solomon, gave men tools to become independent of gods: miracles and magecraft they could access with their own understanding. Solomon sired the magi bloodlines that carried and spread all this.

What Gilgamesh did was to refuse to subjugate them to gods again, but he didn't encourage their independence so they still remained as sycophants.

>>51787836
>become spiritron

You mean the same wacky stuff Servants are made out of? Why, what happened, did the Earth become uninhabitable instantly?

>>51767725
Great in concept, terrible in execution.

Also, Archer is amazing.

>>51788897
Spiritrons are what you get from digitalizing the "output of consciousness," which is the post-mana redefinition of the soul.

>>51788897
>Why, what happened, did the Earth become uninhabitable instantly?

It started going down the shitter in the 1990s I think? Or shortly thereafter. Supposedly, the DAA, the big elite of Vampires, decided to go ahead with their ritual to summon the Big Bad but it kinda messed up and now the world is going to shit. 40 years after the fact, the world is half dead and probably not recoverable.

>>51783990
Even if she isn't, her power is largely from a self-destruct representing getting burned at the stake.

Powerful, yes. Usable, not really.

>>51787819

Isn't the Common Sense of Man just another name of Alaya, the collective will of humanity to survive made manifest? Every link to Human Order on the Type Moon Wiki just links to the lore on Alaya

Also isn't most of that Solomon stuff from Grand Order? I thought Garden of Avalon only mentioned Solomon in passing without giving any real details about him, although its been like a year since I read it. I only recall the bit about Hope vs Despair.

>>51767725
It suffers heavily from a combination of doujin syndrome (good ideas with godawful execution) and fantasy writer syndrome (constantly coming up with new ideas and having no idea what yo do with them).

The core concept of wizards summoning mythological heroes to fight each other is solid gold. I'm surprised no-one has ripped it off yet. All of the heroes are public domain after all, and I don't any court would accept that Nash has copyright over "these guys fight".

>>51792007
>don't any court would accept that Nash has copyright over "these guys fight".
That was supposed to be "I don't think any court would accept that Nasu has copyright over " these guys fight.""

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>>51792007
Wouldn't even be in the top 50 stupidest things that people have tried to copyright desu.

>>51782794
>The Church sends executors to each and every potential Holy Grail to oversee it and determine whether to seal it via the sealing agency,
>The grail in japan is LITERALLY SATAN
>Apparently not worth sealing

>>51792300
Remember when World of Darkness sued Underworld over the concept of "werewolves and vampires fight"? Remember how they actually got a settlement out of it?

OK, technically it was White Wolf suing Lakeshore Entertainment and there was a abit more to it, but you get the point.

>>51792375

Zoroastrianist Satan isn't Christian Satan silly. Just another idolatrous bullshit pagan thing.

Tabletop player vs player feels like it would lead to disaster, unless it's a literal board game.

You could run a weird team based Grail War. Due to [Obscure Magical Rule] this grail war sorts all the masters into teams of exactly the number of players you have , with a number of teams equal to however long you want the campaign to run.

I would run it in Mutants and Masterminds, but I like my heroes crunchy and detailed. Legends of the Wulin might work as well. I do think the game should be something fairly low lethality. Despite all the talk, the fights in Fate tend to end with all participants surviving until an appropriately late stage of the war.

>>51786806

And yet she won't ever touch pussy.

>>51793699
Doing something like Fate/Labyrinth where there's built-in dungeon crawling could work too, for that matter.

Has anyone got a good system that can model both the servants' and masters' capabilities?

Has anyone already brought up the idea of a Tsukihime TTRPG?

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>>51798171

only if it means I get to bang this beautiful girl.