We've seen grimdark,noblebright,and nobledark... But

>>51733229
1984, Fahrenheit 451, The giver, Ayn Rand's Anthem(yes, I reluctantly admit to reading him) and the Tau Empire if the rest of 40k didn't exist. Basically any Utopia that ultimately results in the loss of human freedom, or core human ideals.

>>51733229
Everything actually sucks but you just don't know about it yet. Everyone thinks that the world is fine but something insidious is lurking around every corner.

Like Matrix I guess? At least the first movie.

>>51733286
>Fahrenheit 451

the ending disagrees with your assessment.

>>51733286
This, also anything where things are aesthetically bright and cheery, but fucked up. Kind of like Madoka, if it didn't have the whole creepy vibe for the witches.

>>51733374
Basically the main theme should be that human happiness comes at a great cost that goes unnoticed by the majority.

>>51733356
Then the book is wrong. It should be burned. It disagrees with my worldview and I don't like it.

>>51733286
>reluctantly admit to reading him
>him
?

>>51733286

>1948
>bright

Did we read the same book?

>>51733229
>grimdark
The world sucks, people suck and you're fucked.
>noblebright
The world is good, people are fundamentally decent and you have a good chance of living a good life
>nobledark
The world sucks, and some people suck, but many people still try to face the suckiness of it all with dignity and squeeze some happiness out of it. Your life is tragic.

amirite?

>>51733428
Apparently not.

>>51733229
I'd sort of say Utopia, the tv series. The style is very colourful, the music is upbeat and the bad guys are genuinely trying to save world. Pretty much all the characters have at least some scrape of humanity. But even with that humanity there is a sense that they are fleeting, anyone can die quickly and unglamoursly. Even with their lives and loves, everyone is just a pawn.

Even all the terror and horrible violence is treated in very brisk, almost playful manor, like it's all one big game. What the characters experience as deep fear, anxiety and confusion becomes a thrilling, high stakes challenge in the context of he show.
Life is cheap, the game continues.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhPTUog6DWc

>>51733434
Dark/Bright isn't "The World" so much as the Aesthetic. Gotham is Dark, and Metropolis is Bright, but either one can be Grim or Noble, depending on the writer.

>>51733434
Right. Therefore grimbright would be retarded murderers running around in a generally decent world. Or as I like to call it, 90% of all campaigns.

>>51733229
>him

>>51733286

>him

>>51733488
>>51733427
Ah, sorry, Phone-posting.

>>51733229
The world is pretty much fucked, but so long as you keep your ambitions in check and don't rock the boat too much, you and your own can carve out a decent chunk of it for yourselves.

>>51733229
>grimbright
You mean http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsaccharineWorld?

>>51733286
1984 and 451both have happy endings. youre thinking of brave new world which is still only like mehbright

>>51733689
>1984
>Happy ending
What the fuck are you smoking?

File: 3596842027_5998b205d9_b.jpg (157KB, 1024x682px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 1024x682px

>>51733689

>1984
>happy ending

>>51733456
Man, that aesthetic actually looks really interesting. I might add the series to my to-watch list. Are there any other properties that have that mix of upbeat visuals and music with dark, slightly humorous violence?

>>51733286
>1984

Shitposter extraordinaire.

>>51733710
>>51733732
like a third of the book is just going on about how the society is a powder keg waiting for a spark. the party is doomed to be ripped apart in the streets africa revolt style

also james used doublethink to give a fuck you to be brother as he dies

>>51733837

>like a third of the book is just going on about how the society is a powder keg waiting for a spark. the party is doomed to be ripped apart in the streets africa revolt style

You mean as described in that fake manifesto written by the Party as a honeypot for potential insurrectionists?

>>51733927
no the resistance os something different and is prob fake

they are actually going to end from the proles freaking out from a porn shortage or something and tearing the party apart, literally. its literally constantly talked about and explained in no uncertain terms that the party is incapable of dealing with a prole revolt and that the party is going to end violently sooner rather than later

File: 32330-22630-5820.jpg (42KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 640x480px

>>51733428
>1948

>>51733229
Nobledark is a world where things are terrible, but people stand up against the darkness to try and make things better.

Grimbright is essentially a dystopia. Things would be great, (ample resources, helpful technologies, etc.) if not for terrible people constantly trying to screw eachother over to make a quick buck.

>>51733229
The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas.

>>51733974

>at least I tried

File: 15497-26762-27575.jpg (17KB, 500x371px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 500x371px

>>51734069

>>51733229
Mirror's Edge is an example I've heard a lot.

>>51733229
Grimbright would be "life is shit now and in the immediate future, but there's light at the end of the tunnel." This is to say, human morals and fucky-fuck games are holding us back more than the setting.

>>51734350
Depends on the episode. It's basically Twilight Zone but with a focus on Technology.

>>51733229
Grimbright is the real world, as presented by media.

Fahrenheit 451 could be seen as ultimately positive. The civilization criticized in that novel is about to be destroyed (there's that line about bombs crashing through ceiling TVs), the protagonist discovers that there is a semi-organized resistance movement that attempts to save works of literature by remembering them. It's all a matter of perspective.

>>51733229
Real life is grimbright.

>>51735149
That's just regular Utopia tho?

>>51734617

I think the mere fact society is so fucked up it needs armed rebellion to have a chance at fixing itself is still a pretty grim implication.

It's definitely not as gloomy as similar works but it's not a feel-good story by a long shot. Pretty standard for a lot of Bradbury's stuff, honestly.

>>51733428
I don't know. As dark as it is, the book does have an earnest to it's idealism which stops it from truly being a cynical grimdark setting.

Winston is ultimately broken and defeated, but he is never protrayed as wrong or misguided, just powerless.

File: think.jpg (69KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 600x600px

>>51733229
Nobledark is what happens when you add a glimmer of hope to grimdark, then you get noblebright when hope triumphs, so i guess you get grimbright when things start going to shit again?

>>51735379
In this sense i guess the "default" fantasy setting is grimbright.
As in, the world is a pretty great place, but a terrible evil could change everything.
Like lotr.

>>51735260
No way. It's a huge dystopia that looks all shiny and bright on the surface.

File: Borderlands1.jpg (271KB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

271KB, 960x540px

I think Grimbright would feature plenty of gore and violence but everyone takes it in their stride. Death is not a morbid concept and murder is pretty standard fair. People basically accept the horror around them with a smile on their face and a cheery disposition.

I'm sure I've seen it portrayed in plenty of movies but I can't really think of anything at the moment, the best example I've got on the top of my head are the borderlands games.

>>51734540
No you're thinking of Black Mirror. Mirrors Edge was a pretty good first person parkour game.

>>51733837
Do you not realise that if somehow enough of the entirety of oceania a 3rd of the planet revolted it would only lead to the other two nations genociding them to avoid it sparking revolts in their own lands? Unless the whole world revolted at the same time the rebels would simply be nuked out of existence and covered up. The happiest possible ending to 1984 is that the 3 factions go nuclear and do such utter damage to eachother the few hundred thousand alive on earth are able to start fresh.

>>51733710
In fairness to him, don't forget that there IS canonically a happy ending to 1984. No, really. It's entirely an implied thing, I believe specifically via the appendix, but it's one that suggests that shockingly, it all ended up at least okay. Which is a strange place to put a happy ending but at least there is one.

>>51733752
Just watched the pilot on youtube. I thik I'm in love with this series.

>>51733972
The book goes on at length about how revolution must be started by the middle class.
That's why they control them and basically leave the proles alone.

There is a comma between grim and dark.
They're used to describe the exact same thing not two aspects of the setting.

>>51735238
Only in some parts of world. Some other parts are grimdark or nobledark. Noblebright never existed anywhere though even if many people have claimed their culture is like that.

First part (eg. grim) refers to the people and second part (eg. dark) refers to setting.

Basically grimbright is setting where people are assholes, but world is a bright happy place. Typical example is a utopia with a horrible secrets. Although many such stories might actually be more like nobledark or even noblebright in execution. True grimbright is extremely rare thing to see in fiction.

Also, nobledark is the best because grimdark is for edgy assholes, noblebright is lawful stupid and grimbright is fantasy for bitter old men who have lost their humanity.

>>51737698
The biggest shame is Channel 4 canned it after the second season when it was made for three, so the plot gets left hanging and completely unresolved.

>>51733413
>Fahrenheit 451
>It should be burned
Kek

>>51737923
Fuck dude no way :(. Me and my friends just agreed apoun it as our weekly mr robot placeholder. Well, thank you for introducing me to it anyway, May you find many good series yourself. Any semi-official ending rumour?

>>51733475
>90% of all campaigns
Just stop playing with edgy (pre)teens seriously.

>Grimbright
That's pretty much Berserk after the Falcon event.

You're all fucktards.

The Grim/Noble part refers to how much agency characters have - how much they can change their world.

The Bright/Dark part refers to how bleak the setting is.

Therefore, GrimBright means that the setting isn't that bad to live in, or is even a great place, but there's not much you can do to change it - nothing you do matters. Examples include Sandman, The Sims, most Tycoon games, Eclipse Phase, most of Zeus' flings with mortals (from the gods' perspective). I'm gonna dump a better explanation in a sec.

>>51738198
>The Sims, most Tycoon games, most of Zeus' flings with mortals (from the gods' perspective)
What the fuck are you even talking about?

1/?

Grim/Noble asks whether there are heroes that exist, may appear to change the world for good or ill. A noble setting isn't one where everyone is good, more like one where people are active : In a grim world, no matter what you do, an individual can't secure more than an individual victory, if even that, because the rest of the world is too big/scared/powerless/selfish to act upon his impulse. A noble world is one where the action of a single hero can change the world, and a single big villain can fuck it all up : there are important people, who are so either by birth, rank or sheer willpower, and every single one of these people MATTER. 40k is grim(dark) because it is static : your SM chapter may save planets for a living, yet the stars won't even notice they exist. In much the same way, Sandman (Neil Gaiman's) is grim(bright) : no matter how incredible the things Dream gets to experience are, he is ultimately trapped by the static nature of his existence and that of his companions : he could do anything, and it would all be for nothing. All victories are individual, and usually temporary, affairs. Something like Morrowind or Berserk is noble (bright and dark, respectively) because it is about one man forcing destiny's hand and changing the world.

>>51738212
>>51738198
somehow i understood this perfectly until someone pointed out how it made no sense

>>51738198
Sounds good otherwise, but this part seems to not work out very well:
>The Grim/Noble part refers to how much agency characters have - how much they can change their world.

I mean, what about settings that have villainous protagonist(s) who change things for worse? You really can't call settings like that noble despite characters having ability to change the world.

>>51738249
Sure you can, they can just change things for the worse, or present a credible threat that has to (and can) be surmounted. Or the PCs can just change things for the worse.

Noble/Grim doesn't have anything to do with the protagonists' morality, only their agency.

>>51738222
2/4
Now, a bright world is one full of opportunity, of wondrous sights to behold. It doesn't mean that it has to be MLP, it can be dangerous, but your first instinct when looking at a new location should be awe and wonder : people may adventure to save the world, but they leave town with a smile upon their face, eager to see what comes next. The shadow of Risk is largely erased by the glint of Adventure. In a bright world, it's quite possible for people to go on adventure just for the hell of it, since the journey is it's own reward. Resurrection, or at least means to heal grave injuries, are usually accessible, to counterbalance the fact that the risks out there are real. A dark world is one where life sucks, and usually not long : whether it be because of demon overlords 'nids or even the lack of water, everyone in this story may die, and they die for good. If you lose an arm, you play a cripple. In the extreme cases, even when you win a fight, your career is over (gangrene etc…). That means that, even though people may be ready to help (noble), people will need a good reason to do so, since stepping out of line is so dangerous.

>>51738222
Except that in Morrowind player doesn't have any real agency to change the world. He/she is just pawn of ancient conspiracies and plays them out by the book. It's more like grimbright setting or even grimdark depending whether you want to focus on brighter or darker aspects as it has plenty of both.

>>51738212
In all of these settings, wondrous things happen and the world isn't all that bad, but the protagonists can't do anything to change the status quo. There's no win or lose condition in the Sims or Tycoon games (outside of certain scenarios IIRC), nor do Hellenic gods really change how the world works in the long run when they do things with mortals.

>>51738323
3/4

40k is (grim)dark because, no matter where you go, there is only war, and heroism's only reward is usually a notch on a gun or a corpse in a trench. No matter who you are, most of the galaxy probably wants you dead, and staying home today is the best choice you can make. Also, even if you make it to the end, you may have to sacrifice everything to save everyone, if you haven't already done so. Berserk is (noble)dark because, while there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel, it takes men and women of insane willpower to get there : no matter whether you are big or small, even when you have nothing, the only thing that may save the world is that will in you that says "go on !" And if hope was to fails, you'd get a book-long bloodbath-orgy, and all it's consequences afterwards. Morrowind is (noble)bright because, even though the world is fraught with dangers, there is so much to see, so many interesting people to meet, so many cool things to experience that, at the end of the road, you'd do it all over again if given the chance to see it once again with virgin eyes. Sandman is (grim)bright because the incredible vistas and interesting people are all that can distract Dream from the dullness of his existence. He will tire of them all, but even him has to admit that he saw some cool shit. Also, notice how the relative freedom from consequences (people can get somewhat rezzed/healed/characters don't die much), a bright trait, reinforces the futility of the struggle in a grim world.

>>51733286
>Ayn Rand
>him
>reluctantly

>>51738333 (checked)
Agreed; the examples I'm copypasting aren't all accurate, but the definitions work, at least.

>>51738348
4/4

In short, grimdark and noblebright worlds both exist, and both are interesting to play in. So do grimbright (those are quite weird, I admit) and nobledark (my favorite : victory is so much sweeter when you have to fight for it). Every type allows for evil and struggles to exist, and for stories to be told. Evil can even triumph : it's less of a matter of who wins, and more of a matter of tone. In a bright world, the BBEG can win, but he won't skullfuck everyone the PCs know in front of a crowd without the mood turning to dark.

>>51738198
Based on what?
Grim, dark future is just two descriptive words for the universe of 40k.
They aren't two aspects it's just pleonasm like saying tuna fish or free gift.

>>51733286
Forgot Demolition Man! I bet you don't even know how to use the three seashells, either.

>>51738323
I now get it, but words grim/noble still feel strange to me in that in context. Sure, "noble" as a word can mean also nobility (who have greater agency than most people) and nobility has no fixed morality, but "grim" is pretty much just grim, it's not a synonym to static at all. I get the feel here that we might need to invent some new words to make this classification work better since (atleast to me) this feels more like we're just trying to put sense into already retarded system that was originally made to classify traditional straightforward fantasy settings like most of D&D, 40k, Star Wars etc.

>>51733229
The proof is here: That Guys have the intelligence of a trilobite.

File: image.jpg (438KB, 1920x1152px) Image search: [Google]

438KB, 1920x1152px

Could you consider Fallout's Pre-War America to be a "Grim-Bright" setting?

>>51738555
I would and I'd also consider IRL fifties America as grimbright.

>>51738151
I feel like people play up how murderhobo-y campaigns and adventurers are as hyperbole and as a sort of joke.

>>51733229
>Grimbright
Bioshock Infinite?

>>51738629
True, but it's hard to know if one is just joking because such people do exist in real life. Campaigns where you have Edge McEdgelord and his edgy buddies running around literally murdering every NPC just to take their stuff, torturing and raping commoners for fun and even founding child brothels can really happen in real life, but it's a good thing they're fairly rare if you avoid things like roll20.

>>51738640
In reality, it's not even grim.
>Oh my god, XIXth century people have XIXth century sensibilities! That's so oppressive!

>>51738748
No, they are early 20th century people and their sensibilities are wildly inaccurate at that.

>>51733229
Grimbright would be the polar opposite of Nobledark.

Nobledark presents a pretty shit world, but where the characters can through nobility, decency, and heroics potentially make it... slightly less shit? If you can really fix things it's more noblebright so I guess it's more that they retain their positive, human aspects in the face of the darkness of the universe, and fleeting, individual scale victories are generally possible because Nobledark works, by their nature, have a bit more hope than Grimdark.

So then Grimbright is a good world with bad characters? aka the shiny end of Dystopia? >>51738433 mentions Demolition Man and I could get behind that. But in other ways I feel like that's more of a surface read and that outside of visual media a literal, physical brightness does not xbright make.

So I'd probably consider a Grimbright setting to be one in which the world is... honestly a pretty good place. It doesn't have a super ton of systemic problems and you'd probably enjoy living there as an 'average citizen'. But it's kept that way by the torment and suffering of a select few, who are probably the main characters. >>51733374 mentions Madoka and this is more what I'd see, though more the first few episodes or the world created in the finale of the series. The world is a fairly good place, and most people seem to be doing pretty fine. But Magical Girls are running around protecting everyone from threats they don't even know about and, while they all got a wish to make reality a little happier and more full of hope, the rest of their existence is to be spent isolated from mankind and battling horrible monsters until either they die in battle or become overwhelmed by the pain and despair of their life and meet a worse end still. >>51733333 isn't a bad assessment (and is an epic repeating numeral), I just place the caveat that the insidious something shouldn't be effecting the population. Yet.

>>51734060
Patrician Taste.

>>51733229
Barney the Dinosaur, Teletubbies, the list goes on.

>>51733229
It's perfectly common.

Bright, rich world that's filled with assholes.

>>51738780
They lost contact with the rest of humanity in XIXth century and are therefore XIXth century people for all practical purposes.

>>51738798
They've been on the damn airship for less than ten years.

>>51738807
Launched in 1893, the game takes place in 1912.

>>51737291
> Implying the other 3 factions really exist

>>51738555
>constant wars
>plagues
>food shortages
>shadow government runs everything
>even worse outside of the US where there's totalitarian governments everywhere and everything shortages

Hell no. It's grimdark. Once you get into the post apocalypse era, you can argue it becomes nobledark, but nuclear war was inevitable - all of the pre-war geniuses (and hell, most people in general) knew that and made plans on what to do after the dust settled.

>>51733286
So grimbright is basically cyberpunk.

>>51733286
1984 is grimdark to a fucking te man, literally nothing good is left at the end of the book, julia and winston are forcibly seperated and will probably be murdered, winston starts to love his slavery, o brien's a fraud, nothing is solved, and some of the last chapters include cheery details like "imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever."
you're a fucking idiot.

>>51739043
Depends, there are plenty of food shortage-war enabling-life is worth nothing cyberpunk settings, it's just that most of them have some form of technological advancement that makes it seem alright like cheap free food and good drugs.

File: grimbright.png (1MB, 2000x1460px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2000x1460px

>>51739043
It doesn't need to be.

File: 3213843465_eff7f81916.jpg (63KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 500x333px

>ctrl+f "brave new world"
>1 post
Are you fucks serious? That's the epitome of grimbright. Everything is awesome and perfect, yet people find reasons to nitpick everything, and they specifically go out of their way to find the shittiest parts of civilization out of some weird "noble savage" ideology.

Anyways, The Redeemer from spawn is how I picture grimbright, but I guess SMT: Strange Journey does grimbright and nobledark pretty well in tandem. I always associate grimbright with post-humanity, and losing what intrinsically makes us human, in order to join with some sort of assimilating hivemind.

>>51739108
right above your post m8

>>51739108
It was posted as a picture.

>>51739119
>>51739129
>4 minutes too late
Just fuck my shit up senpai.

I love the shit out that book, but I feel bad about anyone who had to read it in school. There's no better way to make a child hate literature than by forcing them to read it.

It's particularly poignant because I live in canada, and there's this whole revisionist attitude where we need to incorporate "green" attitudes into our day-to-day lives, because natives lived together with nature, so we should be able to as well. In my opinion, I live in ungodly frozen tundra and anyone who had to survive winter without central heating was incredibly unfortunate. Gas has gone up like $1 per gallon (20 cents per liter) because of some ass backwards carbon tax targeted towards consumers.

>>51739021
I don't think he was refering to time when war was had practically started (ie. resource wars that caused those shortages), but rather back when Fallout's America was more like 50s America of real life mixed with super SCIENCE that was imagined by old times SF authors.

And yes, US was totalitarian dystopia with dark secrets. That's exactly why it's GRIMbright.

>>51739209
there's nothing bright about fallout

>>51733229
The world is ripe for adventure, but it is also an extremely dangerous place. Victory only comes to those with immense willpower. Kinda like Berserk.

>>51739240
>Berserk
>Grimbright
Nigga, the main character's love interest got turbo demon mind-raped in front of him by his best friend, like twice. Every single person Guts has ever known will inevitably die in some horrible way. Maybe golden-age arc with the whole "working class becoming nobility" theme, but definitely not anything recent.

>>51733837

Does the appendix ever confirm or deny if Oceania was actually a continental government, or if Ingsoc was in fact unique to Britain while the rest of the world was more or less fine?

1984 really nails the feel of being under the control of a totalitarian government, though. I mean, it feels like this omnipotent unstoppable force, yet collapses barely fifty years after forming.

>>51739225
Not in it's current state, but America at it's height of power was pretty bright place (literally) and wasn't a bad place to live for average citizen, but had some really fucked up shit going behind the curtains like human research and whole Vault Tec conspiracy. Then it all went to hell, ironically that was partly because everyone had so good living standards that America ran out of resources.

>>51733229
Most fantasy RPGs with players from the real world end up as grimbright.

>>51733286
>any Utopia
>loss of human freedom, or core human ideals.
why did you say the same thing twice?

>>51738222
>>51738323
>>51738348
>>51738363
Would Elite be grimbright, by that logic?

>>51735427
Lotr is nobledark. Most of things are in a degenerated state (good side kingdoms, relations), elves are gtfo. The unlikeliest heroes save the day against the odds.

>>51733689
nigga you what?
Plus, acourding to Huxlay on his deathbed, BNW is the good ending

>>51733974
welllllllll the book was writen in 1948 so at lesat he got something right

>>51739182
It's not 4 minutes too late. The picture was posted near the beginning of the thread.

>>51736979
brave new world is a utopia, its just that the main characters amd author think its a dystopia for some reason.

out of 1984, 451, brave new world amd basically every dystopia book ever, where would you want to live? hell brave new world is a nicer place than real fucking life right now

>>51739566
It's got some nice elements, and things are generally peaceful and plentiful, but the society is vapid and shallow, with an ignorant mass ruled over by a very minor elite. Hell, they genetically engineer disabled people to serve as a slave class. There is a LOT of fucked up shit in BNW.

>>51739566

BNW was written in mockery of what a Utopia entails, it came from an era when casual sex, casual disregard for human life, mass consumption of prescription drugs and wasteful hedonistic lifestyles was seen as monstrous.

>>51739587

Excluding the eugenics, how is any of that any different than the modern day?

>>51739566
>bread and circus lmao xD
Plebeian spotted

>>51739566
It's not a nicer place than real life, it is modern real life and it sucks balls for that.

>>51739591
i understand, its why i said the author thinks its a dystopia. its not though and there is even a part in the book where thr lord of the northern hemisphere or whatever explains to the characters that its not anf is just really a chill place. they didnt even face any punishment for trying to overthrow the government

>>51739623
>that spelling
>that grammar
I'm starting to understand why you think it's such a great society.

>>51739614
its a society with literally zero problems where people spend their free time playing in parks with their friends and enjoying their life

>>51739635
good just admit youre wrong next time though instead of changing topics. im a phone poster so everything is fucked up

>>51739603
It's not, which is why it sucks so bad.

But seriously, people in modern day are a lot more educated and intelligent than the ones in BNW. The problem is the idiots in the modern world, have a platform where their monkey-like screeching can be heard easily

>>51739677
>im educated because i parrot what my professor and literal propaganda news sites told me to

people are retarded nowadays and people point to a bnw type society as the reason for it

>>51739704
And here we have a perfect example of what I mean.

>>51739727
please explain anon

>>51739744
He's calling you a retard
I don't blame him
I think you're a retard too

File: nick-young-confused-face.png (74KB, 300x256px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 300x256px

>>51733286
>1984
>Utopia
What the fuck did I just read

>>51740692
It is if your only aspiration is to be piss drunk 24/7

>>51733229
why are those kabutos eating doritos

>>51740692

It's worth noting even the original Utopia in Thomas Moore's book was a pretty authoritarian state with limited personal freedoms. It was a stable and safe place to live but only if you just sort of mindlessly accepted the system.

>>51733229

I'd guess it's something like this:

Grimdark = everything is shit and you can't make a difference
>40K
>Lovecraft

Grimbright = everything is shit but you can make a difference
>Bioshock
>Bloodborne

Noblebright = everything is great and you can make a difference
>Lord of the Rings
>Elder Scrolls

Nobledark = everything is great but you don't make a difference
>ASOIAF
>anything grand with a cycle

>>51740836
Everything is great in A Song of Ice and Fire? Isn't it super in your face with how much it sucks to not be the 1% of those who are nobles, and how those people are horrible assholes to each other and anyone who isn't a super cut-throat bastard is easy picking for those who are?

>>51740836
You have Grimbright and Nobledark mixed up

>>51740877
Everything is great in Bloodborne?

>>51740867

I'm thinking more of the setting, as opposed to society. I should've maybe used "grand" instead of great.

>>51740896
No, I mean you have the definitions mixed up

>>51739537
Do your hands not work correctly?

>>51740903

That wasn't me (I'm the one who gave the tentative list), but why do you think the definitions are flipped?

Noble/grim is how the setting feels.

Bright/dark is how the characters impact the setting.

>>51740900
Grand is Noble? But 40k is the definitive GRIMdark setting and one of it's main features is how grand the setting is allowing people to have huge local adventures that aren't affected by other ones and how every shade of a group can exist alongside each other due to the vastness of the galaxy.

>>51740938
Wrong, Bright and Dark is the overall outlook and feel of the setting, and Noble/Grim is how characters can impact the setting.

A setting can be Dark and have a Dark Fantasy feel to it, but still have a chance of hope or improvement to it, and thus a Noble narrative

File: Tone Alignment.jpg (289KB, 1640x963px) Image search: [Google]

289KB, 1640x963px

>>51733229
Here you go.

>>51740938
They're usually defined differently:
Noble/grim is agency that characters have for changing things (or how people in setting are)
Bright/dark is state of the world (or literally how bright the world looks)

>>51734060
Great taste anon

>>51740867

This is just a meme. The world is by no means cuddly but you'd think it was worse than 40k with how people talk about it.

The reason things kind of turn to hell is because the series is about a large scale war consuming the continent. At no point does GRRM imply the current state of Westeros is the norm. Once you get out of the places affected by conflict the world is relatively comfortable by medieval standards.

>>51741096
Well then you run into the issue of story vs setting, if a story takes place in a dark times of a otherwise comfy setting, is it grim or noble?

File: 1320940345.jpg (5KB, 229x220px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 229x220px

>>51733286
>Basically any Utopia that ultimately results in the loss of human freedom, or core human ideals.
>Utopia
>1984
1984 is pretty fucking grimdark.

Discworld is grimbright. It's a fantastic setting with knights and dragons and wizards in colorful pointy hats, but the people in it are all cunts, criminals or corrupt. The romantic notions of chivalry and 'classical' heroism are more or less gone but otherwise it's a traditional high fantasy setting.

>>51741304
I'd say the words of Death and his stuff gives it a Noble air.

>>51738151
I play with a group that's like this and we're all in our early twenties. It mostly comes down to the DM taking all the jokes at face value. You joke bout punching the King? You actually punched the king. You ask if you are a boat? "Natural 20" Your character is now replaced by a rowboat. Roll up a new character and stop asking stupid questions. He borders on being a That GM, between running a difficult campaign and an unfair campaign. At the end of the day the party IS an abomination of uncoordinated homebrew so it works. We had five character deaths in the last two sessions from a combination of bad judgement, homebrew mishaps and one suicide-by-crystal. I think the party is turning over a new leaf.

Mirror's edge is the perfect example. It looks like a Utopia but is a hellhole.

>>51739491

Pretty much. Life goes on despite all the conflict

>>51733689
>implying going to island devoid of normies and brainlets to be among your own kind isn't the happiest ending possible

>>51733229
why are those isopods enjoying a bag of chips on what appears do be a car seat?

>>51733551
Or Ayn Rand is a trap

File: screeches martial artistically.jpg (267KB, 533x565px) Image search: [Google]

267KB, 533x565px

>>51733229
To quote a poet;
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Omae wa mo
Shindeiru

File: vhiivlckpf3mricwkxu1.png (719KB, 800x470px) Image search: [Google]

719KB, 800x470px

>>51733229
The world is heavily implied to be a post apocalypse that covered the planet in ocean, massive monsters roam the seas making travel immensely dangerous, the World Goverment is 40k Imperium of Man levels of fanatical (they even have their own version of Exterminatus for when an island needs to vanish from history), nations of pirates rule half the world that abuse magical abilities to keep control of their territories with their rules of iron fists...

The main character is a pirate made out of rubber, his first made uses three samurai swords (one in his mouth), the skeleton is a bard, and the cyborg runs on soda.

>>51751748
One Piece is a pretty grim setting once you get past the aesthetics.

>>51751759
That's even forgetting the fact that a the entire region around the equator seems to have given up on following the laws of reality. Examples include weather patterns that can change in an instant, a segment of the ocean that is literally just fire, and lightning rain.

>>51738425
This.
You're all just making shit up.

>>51751759
It gets really fucking weird sometimes, like that arc on the island where children were slowly dying as test subjects for addictive combat drugs and the asshole running the operation also gassed everyone including his troops but everyone stays pretty cheery and comical all throughout the whole thing.

>>51752063
>everyone stays pretty cheery and comical all throughout the whole thing

That's just because it's still a children's comic for boys despite also featuring more adult themes.

>>51752888
This matches me assessment as well. Does this change that it's Grimbright?

>>51733374
Do you really think 1984 is "bright and cheery" the book explains that London is run down and shitty.

>>51735149
I hate this book so much.

Goddamn it.

It was real early too, I tapped out at the orgy of three year olds. Had to finish because of school though...

File: 1387265159009.gif (482KB, 300x186px) Image search: [Google]

482KB, 300x186px

>>51737124
This is a good point.

>>51754715
Nope, but I wouldn't be very sure that it will stay grimbright after it's ending (unless they plan to continue it forever) because it's shonen. I'm pretty sure things like World Government will be toppled or changed atleast. It will be long time before the series reaches (if it ever does) to that point though.

>>51741304
Discworld is definitely not Grim, the main characters are so awesome they literally twist Narrativium around them, and the big subtext of the Ankh-Morpork books is that Vetinari, the Watch, technological innovations, etc... are changing the city for the better.

>>51733286
>1984
>grimbright
>any kind of positive at all in that world
Found the dirty commie

Can someone re-explain grim and noble?

I feel like I get it but I'm not so sure.

>>51757221

Not anything to get. They're arbitrary distinctions some grognards try forcing onto literature and worldbuilding.

Consistent mood is important. But reducing an entire work to one square on a two by two grid requires intentionally shallow thinking.

>>51757221
>>51757286
It all comes from this thread from the /tg/ of yore

Scroll down until you see the namefage posting the grey and yellow chart, then he explains his idea

After that we ran with it and anons sometimes made up new definitions

>>51757417
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/5881187/

herp

>>51754802
I had to read it over the summer for school. I thought it was immensely fucked up, but that it would lead to some GREAT discussions.

Or, it would have had we not ignored it entirely in favor of the other book we read over the summer - Jane Eyre. Goddammit, that unit sucked.

File: 91xBPptrUqL.jpg (597KB, 1342x2056px) Image search: [Google]

597KB, 1342x2056px

You want GrimBright? Right here.

Violence is a fact of life, no amount of splattered brains changes a thing, the bad guys are large and in charge, and nobody is the wiser.

But it's semi stable, everyone (important) is rich and has cool super powers, and for the average person, it's not really that much worse off than real life.

>>51737124
Kinda reminds me of We Happy Few. It's all about living in a world where everyone is high on drugs and acts cheery while they beat the everloving shit out of people who disrupt their happy little fantasy with a smile on their face.

Vid for those who don't believe me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc67_BrCdPc

>>51756996
Funny thing is that 1984 was written by a commie despite being practically a critique of Soviet Russia.

But then again not all commies liked or like Soviet version of communism.

>>51757727
>critique
You gonna have to show me how it is that and not a blatant warning against communism buddy

File: NobleGrimBrightDark.png (56KB, 918x959px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 918x959px

>>51757221
I think part of our problem here is that nobody can agree on what positive elements are "Noble" (as opposed to "Bright") and which negative ones are "Grim" (as opposed to "Dark"). Personally, I see Bright/Dark as a matter of how the setting is on a scale of cool place to live versus shit place to live and Noble/Grim as a matter of how much the struggles and sacrifices of good characters are worth (The grimmer the setting, the less seems to get done with a given cost). Pic related.

So to me, a dystopia is virtually always Dark no matter how shiny its coat of paint. Other people disagree

>>51757798
Because people make shit up. Your image is a common example of trying to move it into "what's the future like" territory.

Just go with the original examples instead, seen here >>51757433

>>51757770
Because it's clearly a warning against totalitarian communism that was practiced by USSR, Chinese etc.

George Orwell himself was an anarchist and socialist who fought on the commie (who were anarcho-syndicalist, not Soviet style totalitarian commies) side during Spanish Civil War.

>>51733229
Currently watching an excellent example of grimbright

>Heavy Traffic by Ralph Bakshi

Go watch it now

I think of Lisa the Painful, but it may be too dark.

I believe it's bright because despite the end of humanity, everyone is just doing whatever makes them happy.

The obvious grimness, comes from the fact that nothing they do will ever matter, no matter how much money you have, no matter how big your gang is, no matter who you kill, no one will even be around in about 50 years.

So it's kind of like a last party for them, an effort to have fun until they die.