/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>51729434

Which is why I said that it was the weakest Arcanum by itself. You can definitely get up to some shit with prime as a secondary Arcanum.

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>>51729410
Rip the still beating heart out of some wyrm asshole and give it to the person they fancy

why do people like WtA over WtF?

Mummy backers should be getting Cursed Necropolis: Rio this week, the last Mummy book most likely until 2e.

>>51729583
It has a lot more direction and actual goals

How would you guys houserule awakening to make face to face casting a better option than sympathetic? Or how would you guys nerf sympathetic casting?

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>>51729553

Are all werefags this romantic?

>>51729583

It has complex set of politics lacking, unless the DM really REALLY makes forsaken his own thing and either disregard or create a lot for the setting, from forsaken.

WtA is Barbarians on modern times in which the modern sensibilities of the player should clash with the ancient values of Garu nation. Is a perfect analogy of the term "SJW", the garou nation has the righteous of goals but like a SJW they believe having said goals justify any action they take and that clashes with reality.

There is this feeling of honorable sword duels, lofty tittles and medieval politics that forsaken lack and dont wanna own to be its own thing.

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>>51729410
Drinks their Lover's Heart's Blood.
DIABLERIE

Which gameline lets me play as my fursona?

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>>51729636
Just for you bby
>>51729723
>comparing werewolves to SJW
We've gone too far
>>51729763
Changeling the Dreaming or Mage I guess

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>>51729763

Changeling: the Lost is your best bet. Folks are going to say Werewolf but they're wrong.

Mummy, with a specific Utterance.

>>51729780
>Changeling the Dreaming or Mage I guess
>>51729763
Changeling, Werewolf or Beast Anon don't try to work mage into it

>>51729819
Mages can do anything though!
Werewolf only works if your fursona is a wolf and even then you have to deal with him being a huge asshole since all werewolves are huge assholes. I imagine that wouldn't work for the type of people who want to play as a retarded fursona in the first place

>>51729819
Mage is for chuunis

>>51729410
>How do the splats celebrate Valentine's Day?

Mages are busy casting rituals.

You never want to waste an Environmental Yantra.

>>51729583
WtA
>apocalyptic theme
>the struggle between tradition/the litany and pragmatism
>the tension between breeds
>lots of opportunity of politicking
>there's plenty of reason to fight other garou
>the opportunity to deal with heavy stuff like the War of Rage and the Impergium
>you can play it angsty and introspective or go full heavy metal furry Captain Planet murder machine

Don't get me wrong, I like WtF's kinda fairy tale team but WtA is more appealing.

>>51730061
WtA

>Furry Captain Planet and the Planeteers
>Glorification of eco-terrorism
>The Beast of its time

>>51729583

I know I don't.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxveHUKxwBU9RnlfTkJnY2NyMjQ/view

What are your thoughts on the new Perfected Materials?

>perfected materials act as if they were the base material for the purposes of banes, ignoring extra qualifiers, like requiring consecration

Does this mean you could mass produce perfected iron weapons and sell them to changelings to rape true fae with?

>>51730209
>The Beast of its time
Not really

>>51730227
>could mass produce perfected iron

No, magic cannot make lasting perfected metals and their creation is not easy or without cost, they are naturally VERY rare, and creating them the old fashion way takes a very long time and is magical resource intensive.

Perfected iron also has a great many valuable uses, and I doubt changelings could offer mages much that would get them to part with it.

So, which splat has the potential to be the most romantic?

Please don't say Mages.

>>51730355
Vampires are the obvious option
Werewolf could do some forbidden love kind of junk since they aren't suppose to bang
Mummy could do some love across the ages thing

Other then that I don't really think any of the other splats have anything out of the ordinary in terms of romance

>>51729487
To be fair, of all those 4 level attack spells which all arcanas have, Prime is only one which is likely to work on everything.

>>51729763
Changeling, for specific fursonas also Werewolf or Beast.

>>51730061
WtF
>yiffing is allowed
checkmate

>>51730355
>Please don't say Mages.

You're going to be disappointed, as mages are indeed the most human of all the splats.

However, I imagine that Changelings have a lot of thematic background to be quite romantic. Of course, such romance will no doubt end in terrible suffering.

>>51730381

You forgot the Fariest.

>>51730381
>Werewolf could do some forbidden love kind of junk since they aren't suppose to bang

That's no longer the case in Forsaken 2e.

>>51730351
Except the link I posted, an excerpt from the next Mage book, has a Matter 3 Spell that lets you make Lasting Perfected Materials for 1 Mana and 2 Reaches.

Also, I'm not familiar with Changeling, but there's probably something of value in those Goblin Markets that a mage might want.

>>51730412
I don't know anything about Changeling

>>51730399
>such will no doubt end in terrible suffering
Acanthus x Fairest

Nothing could possibly go wrong.

>>51730426
Goblin Markets are interesting, but Supernal Magic would just turn such trinkets into junk

>>51730424
Do werewolves still bang actual wolves in Forsaken?

>>51730426

When the perfected metals spoilers was released, Dave asked for feedback about the Lasting option. The response was universally negative, Dave ultimately agreed, and he then indicated that he will remove the Lasting option in the final product.

>>51730426
>Except the link I posted, an excerpt from the next Mage book, has a Matter 3 Spell that lets you make Lasting Perfected Materials for 1 Mana and 2 Reaches.
DaveB's been back to say they're removing the Lasting option. Because quite frankly, that was bullshit.

>>51730355

Vampire has a lot of options: you love a mortal but aren't one anymore, the unhealthy ghoul/domitor thing, the blood bond... there's a lot of material there. I think Changeling is solid too (love-pledges and tragic romantic fairytales, fucked up Keeper love).

>>51730381

Werewolves can totally bang in Forsaken 2e.

>>51730469

The Forsaken don't care too much about real wolves.

>>51730470
>>51730475

That makes sense, I suppose. Just going to have to do it the slow way if I want some Arcadian genocide.

>>51729593

It is in fact out........NOW

Time to crack open my copy!

>>51730470
>>51730475

Source?

It's not actually hard for a Mage to create Perfected Materials.

Lasting or Indefinite, it doesn't really matter to the Mage in question.

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>>51730536
Other interesting tidbit is that this likely is giving a clue as to another rule to be released in Signs of Sorcery. How crafting spells turned into Attainments may be Lasting instead of having a duration as per the normal rules.

Primarily because this breaks an existing rule of their Legacy Attainment rules. I wouldn't be surprised if that were put at the 5-th dot level though. Being able to flat up turn anything into a perfect version of itself seems like a Gnosis 8 thing to do to me.

>>51729723
>>51729617
>>51730061
that sounds almost too narrow

>>51730531

Some of us missed that Kickstarter, so if there's anything juicy please share!

>>51729780
>We've gone too far

A better example would be the black panthers but SJW are a more contemporary example

>>51730247
Did you mean Changeling?

>>51730496
>yes, but it is still not encouraged, since it moves them away from the herd. It just doesn't spawn murder-children that want to kill you for having it cursed with life

Would it make sense to use tass as the main form of currency/quest reward for a Mage game?

>>51730933
>A better example would be the black panthers
Yeah i'd agree there. SJW just tend to whine about shit and not get anything actually done

>>51730209
>>51730209
>The Beast of its time
Unlike Beast, WtA acknowledges that garou aren't innocent. The War of Rage, the War of Tears, the Wyrmcomers, etc. all point to a spot and say "and here's where the garou should have known better but fucked up" whereas Beast tells us that Beasts do LITERALLY nothing wrong and that every supernatural loves them.

Beasts are Mary Sues, Garou are flawed (anti-)heroes

>>51730636
Having focus isn't the same as being narrow.

>>51731634
But Beasts can do nothing wrong. Are you an MRA that you would even suggest such a thing? Those Chads and Staceys absolutely deserved it.

>>51731634

Beast is honestly at its best when the story revolves around the sham of their morality. I wish folks could see that as a strength instead of a failing; the Begotten are spinning bullshit justifications for their predatory behavior and a part of each and evey one of them knows it.

>nobody has spoiled Rio yet

baka desu

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In honor of Valentine's Dat, you are all now Garou of the Fianna tribe, as they are the most... 'passionate' of the werewolves.

HOW DO YOU CELEBRATE THIS JOYOUS DAY?

>>51731656
>Stacey
Are you implying a woman could ever be in the wrong? Your blatant misogyny is triggering me

>>51731776
I don't think werewolves like faggots so I don't think we would get along well

>>51731776
Yiff my brethren probably.

>>51731776
The same way as my forefathers, unbridled alcoholism.

>>51731745
the problem is that the books are, so far, not written in this way. I hope that this will be polished in future supplements, but so far, all it does is sounding like juvenile revenge fantasy

>>51731801

That's against the litany, though.

>>51731796
You dare to think you have the luxury of not breeding the next generation?

>>51731818

There's some of what I describe in the corebook, and a little more of it in thr fiction anthology. I hope it's a theme the Beast team can run with, because I personally think it's a really rich narrative space to explore.

I've got a Beast Dark Era festering in my head set in Ancient Greece, where the Begotten are self-styled Furies acting on behalf of gods none of the, have ever met or necessarily believe in, and how their reasoning falls apart in the face of Changelings who have been touched by the "divine" for real.

>>51729583
Nostalgia.

They don't, /tg/ is just full of people who hate new things.

>>51731912
New things are the only thing worse than the old things.

>>51731776
>be garou
suicide is the only reasonable response

>>51731925
>suicide is the only reasonable response
They'd probably find a way to fuck that up too.

>>51731912

I gave Forsaken a fair shake and it, along with its community, never gave me a lot to care about with its over all narrative. I feel that way about most nwod games honestly. VtR and CtL however were interesting and I would play them, and the mechanics of WtF are generally better thought out though I think Garou still gave a better impression that you are playing a bad ass death machine, probably has to do with the aggravated damage and Rage mechanic.

>>51731960
the thing i find weird is how people look at pure in forsaken and call them nazis
when garou had human concentration camps, practice forced abortions for the unclean and want the same thing as pure

>>51731317
Not really.
That's a bit like telling a Vampire if he does something for you, you'll give him this blood bag you found.
Pretty shitty compensation most of the time.

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>>51731776
I thought only the Children engaged on that stuff

>>51731831
> Garou Shall Not Mate With Garou
>mating: (of animals or birds) come together for breeding; copulate.
>breeding: the mating and production of offspring by animals.

Now mating for the purpose of CREATION that is creating offprings is forbidden that means all other kind of sex (anal sex, oral sex) is allowed since they do not produce offspring

So you can blow your bro and then he can fuck your butt and then you two can spit roast that cutie cousin after she finishes tribalising her other cousin as long as no pen00r is jamming a vag00 its all cool

I'm not a ragabash

>>51729583
it came out first
it has more fluff
as a oWoD game it has a set focus and story
it is more of a complete picture
it requires less input from the GM creative-wise

>>51732006

I thought yiff jizz was so mystically strong that no matter what you did it would still knock them up.

Group wants me to run a werewolf apocalypse game, and while I've had interest in the setting for a while I've never gotten the chance to run or play it (though I have played, but never run, a fair bit of masquerade and mage). I know the basic shit (gaia, wyrm v wyld v weaver, pentex,etc) as far as setting goes, but anything I should know beforehand about the system? Also, is the 20th anniversary edition the edition to use?

>>51731745
>>51731869

While you're not wrong, the issue is that Beast doesn't want to be that on the development side of things and explicitly tries to get away from that theme with books like Conquering Heroes and Tooth and Claw. Even with the tone of "this may/is a bunch of bullshit" that's being slipped in, ultimately Beast would like to present its protagonists as justified.

Beast honestly wants to be something like Nightbreed, where Beasts really are supposed to be a metaphor for the marginalized and the downtrodden who can't help but be who they are, even if it means they actively antagonize the regular world. Heroes really are supposed to be agents of the status quo, but ultimately only in it for themselves.

It works in Nightbreed because Midian has an established society with a sort of code, and Decker really is an absolute monster who hides behind the veneer of humanity. It doesn't work and can't work in Beast because Beast has to go bigger and broader than Midian and Decker virtue of having to be a game, and doing that muddys things up to what we have now.

Matt could decide to change his mind on the tone and theme of the game, and he probably should, but don't get it twisted: it only exists because of the re-write, and only because that material has to mesh with the original material.

>>51732006
Couldn't you just use a condom anyway? Or would even the slightest threat of pregnancy be a violation?

>>51731983
Garou are Nazis but they stopped being Nazis (although some want to be Nazis again cf. Red Talons).

Pure are Nazis but because of #notallNazis it's badwrong to kill them.

>>51732059
I'm interested in playing a WtA game but I have the same rules questions as you. If nothing else, you can grab the WtA introductory kit from RPGnow. It's different (d6s instead of d10s, no merits or gifts) but it's nice and light.

>>51731983

(Most) of the Garou realized and acknowledged that it was a bad idea is the thing. Its what created the children of gaia after all.

>>51729817
Is that cropped porn? Kind of looks like it.

Give it here

>>51732119

I wouldnt call the pure nazis because they people in this board get pedantic with the term. A more neutral description would be a hate group.

>>51731776

Well as all the fiannas i would ride the small yellow bus like my brethen, sniff glue and smash beer bottle with my forehead.

>>51731912

I started rpgs with forsaken but then read apocalypse and i like it much better......shitty rules aside.

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>>51731843
okay fine
I get really drunk and pick a qt red head and fuck her brains out

>>51732482
The Fianna really are like the Bone Gnawers but with alcoholism plus living in a trailer park instead of an alley. Not sure if they differ on the incest.

>>51732503
Sound like cool guys

>>51729410
>Mummy
"I have crossed an ocean of time to be with you... here, listen to this ballad from a civilization that has turned to dust..."
>Samuel Height
"I got you your very own fur coat...."

>>51731776
DRINK

>>51729410
Is Mage supremacy still gay if Chronicles of Darkness is a feminine World of Darkness?

>>51729410
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_xDL4_uXew

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>>51731796
you're in good company

>>51732013
>it requires less input from the GM creative-wise
and that's why I like WtF, so much can be done with some imagination. the same imagination that other people seem to not have

>>51733086
>mineshaft
>leathermen
>drug abuse
No thanks

>>51733086
can you really just hang out in war form on owod? I'm more familiar with cofd.

>>51733103
>and that's why I like WtF, so much can be done with some imagination. the same imagination that other people seem to not have

Sure because thats why i pay 60+ dollars for a game book, for it to need me to do the work for them.

>>51733164

I just thread through WtA for the first time and yeah, pretty much

It's the natural form for Metis so they wouldn't be kept around if they were perma-frenzied for the ten years before their first change

>>51733164
Yup. It's a common thing.

>>51732059
>Edition?
I prefer Revised to 20th. 20th crammed so much into the book that it ends up being light on detail; information on the Fera is light and sometimes nerfed for no good reason; finally, not much crunch was changed except dropping Secondary Abilities in favour of (I think) "Professional Knowledge", "Hobby Skill" and whatever the third one was, cleaning up a lot of redundancy and stupidity. I kind of agree with that last one, but 20th is far too expensive for my fortnightly TTRPG budget.

>>51732119
>because of #notallNazis it's badwrong to kill them.
Fuck. That. The liberals can fuck off back to their safe spaces, we invaded Europe in a massive coalition of nations and invented nukes just to destroy those genocidal assholes. It is always okay to #punchanazi and Indiana Jones would agree with me. If I ever see Richard Spencer he's tasting my knuckles.

>>51732503
You show your ignorance like a badge of honour, friend.

Fianna are Celtic, through and through. That means fierce clans that beat the shit out of each other at the drop of a hat, drink hard, party harder, love a good song, love a good story, and if one of them dies, the wake will probably turn into an alcohol fuelled punch-up. The men are hard, the women are harder. You're fucked if you talk shit about what they believe inn in front of them. That's just the kinfolk, the Garou are the same only angrier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6CHq9mXkJ8

>>51732482
Tha's the spirit, laddie!

>>51733172
This, this, god almighty, totally this.

I hate people trying to defend this utter laziness. "It's a toolkit!" Fuck you. Maybe they should drop the price by $20 if they love publishing a half-finished product so much.

>>51733172
>>51733280
Get some imagination you tools.

>>51733215
>You show your ignorance like a badge of honour, friend.
>Fianna are Celtic, through and through. That means fierce clans that beat the shit out of each other at the drop of a hat, drink hard, party harder, love a good song, love a good story, and if one of them dies, the wake will probably turn into an alcohol fuelled punch-up. The men are hard, the women are harder. You're fucked if you talk shit about what they believe inn in front of them. That's just the kinfolk, the Garou are the same only angrier.

As my Children of Gaia PC put it "Mother Gaia loves all her children equally.....but she also knows some of her children are special and have...special needs. So dont hate the Fianna, they have a place in the world, as fodder can... i mean vanguard. Yes they fight gloriously so more important, smarted and.....useful garou dont have to and they will thank you for it."

>>51733317

Pay me $60 and you get me one.

What is the single best Arcanum in 2e?

>>51733397
Whichever one suits your desired purpose best

>>51733397
I like space because teleporting is fun.

>>51733397
Spirit. Pokemon master and you can mimic other arcana with enough time.

>>51733397
None

They're all amazing

>>51733465
Death can be pretty ass if you want to stay Wise, and before Weaving (and to a lesser extent Ruling) Forces can be pretty mediocre.

>>51729583
The dog raping.

>>51730355
Promethean

>>51733491
You can still use it to travel through twilight, command ghosts, and manipulate shadow/cold/silence.

Does anyone know where I might find the guidelines for creating different power level NPCs for WoD?

Like how much exp do I give to an ancillae, elder, etc

Are they in the storyteller guides?

>>51733610
I usually don't bother with XP, I just give them whatever attributes, skills and backgrounds make sense.

>>51733491
Forces is easily the most versatile Arcanum.

Death is not even close to being crap as you seem to think.

>>51733280
> Fuck you. Maybe they should drop the price by $20 if they love publishing a half-finished product so much.
They drop it by $40 in pdf form.

>>51733514
>not giving the knot to your human kinfolk
That's literally the reason they are there

Abyss

>>51733924
Garou prefer to give the knot to wolves, anon. Red Talons do it exclusively, but canonically all of the Garou prefer to yiff their wolf kinfolk over their human ones.

>>51733956
That's actually not true for a lot of the tribes. Most of them don't even have very many wolves to knock up

Geist 2e already in Second Draft stage, looks like it's coming out before Hunter 2e. Hope they'll do open development blogs for it soon.

>>51730355
Vampire, Changeling, Promethean and Mummy most likely could lead themselves into that category. For every other splat I'd say it's a per basis sort of thing. I'm sure Beast is least likely to be romantic though, despite Beauty and the Beast scenarios being possible.

>>51733397
Acanthus is the best path, so it's a toss up between Fate and Time. My pick is Fate cause I'm a sucker for it's fluff. Being able to make the world got through the checkpoints you choose while not having to sweat how it gets from checkpoint to checkpoint is pretty sweet.

>>51734165

The Obrimos are still the best at fucking over other Mages.

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First for qt

>>51733317
Okay, given I'm now apparently doing OPP's job for them, where's my paycheck?

>>51734206
I disagree.
Why fuck with their spells, when with Time you can make the current dispute irrelevant?

>>51734282

Your payment is beer money and gratitude from autistic neckbeards!

>>51734282
Their job isn't to make up stories for you to play or to make some pointless overarching story for the whole world.

Their job is to provide a setting and a system for you, and they do that. The books contain everything you need to come up with your own story, and plenty of them have plot hooks, ready made NPCs, fleshed out settings and entire campaigns for you to use if you don't have the brainpower to make shit up.

So whine harder, you unimaginative little bitch.

>>51734229
I hate this but I also love the dedication

>>51734305

Which they can't do cuz Prime

>>51734229
Thrysus shouldn't be qt.

They should be wild and sexy af. If a Thrysus doesn't have the Feral Mien merit then she ain't no Thrysus worth fucking with.

>>51734353
You going to spend every second of every round continuously attempting to counterspell their magic?

>>51733397
The Translation Guide.

>>51734305
Dispel magic

Time magic doesn't actually take hold until the duration elapses. and while the spell is going anyone can dispel it snapping the time mage back to the present and nullifying anything the time mage tried to do.

Time Mage. go back in time
Prime Mage. prime sight. sees time dilation around everything
Time Mage. starts an action
Prime Mage. Dispel magic
Time mage snaps back

Prime is the fuck you mage Arcane

>>51734336
It's such a shame that Martin Elricsson and the majority of consumers agree with me then.

>>51734374

You really think that's all an Obrimos can do?

Silly Acanthus...

>>51733862
Even that is fucking extortion for a .pdf file.

In the gaming industry, pricing drops once a certain number of units have been sold. Yet in the RPG industry, 25 year old books that are scanned in get charged at top dollar until the oceans rise and consume us all.

>>51734336
>Their job isn't to make up stories for you to play

Then what are story hooks and what is the SAS system?

Checkmate.

>>51734391
Not how it works, hombre.

nothing is real until the ST says it is real. The ST has to say or present the setting to the players. So no matter what you have to spell out the setting, why not use a mix of both and have fun with it.

I mean the 5ed wta is breaking away from the one nation and going with this weird three way split.

>>51734401
It really is, because that guy is a fucking cringe-level writer and seems intent on repeating all the mistakes that oWoD made, which will just cause it to implode under the weight of its bloated metaplot AGAIN. Not to mention of course that if WoD does make this fabled comeback you fanboys are putting so much of your faith in, it'll just be bastardized by its popularity, IF it gets that far at all.

Also can you definitively prove that canned campaigns and bloated metaplots are what they all missed about oWoD?

>>51734437
>story hooks
Extras.
>SAS system
Another extra.

They're hardly necessities.

>>51734447
>awakening
yeah it is

time mage rewinds
timeline one (True Timeline)
time dilation and mages can notice that

timeline two
Time mage can use new information. and preform actions. the actions causes time dilation in the true timeline

Timeline two smashes into timeline one, at the time of spell expiration and becomes the true timeline.

There is a window in which the timeline one see time dilations. Prime mages can go lulz no fuck your attempt to alter events. You suck at mage

Prime is master Arcane

>>51734491

He really wants to tackle modern day isdues with the game line, at the expense of anything actually cool from the old metaplots.

Enjoy even more books about alt-right villains, Pentex controlled parodies of Breitbart or FOX News, and the heroic genderqueer otherkin vampires, leatherdaddy ftm homosexual werewolves and mentally ill rape victim mages, that will defeat these evils - or be consumed by them!

>>51734336
>>51734401
CofD's setting is on the same level as Pathfinder's Golarion
>dude robots lmao
>dude vampires and werewolves lmao
>dude fae lmao
>dude ____ lmao

All the shit gets thrown on the wall and there's something for everybody but it's all boring because it's designed to be aggressively generic and support splat expansion. And even worse, the mechanics are tied to the shitty setting so if you change things you're either going to have throw out or rewrite a lot of mechanics, which begs the question "why don't you just play something else that you don't have to heavily homebrew?"

>>51734464
>no matter what you have to spell out the setting
True, but it's easier to be subtractive ("ignore page X, that's dumb") than additive ("Well you see, dickety years ago under the reign of Prince Tom of House Calzone . . .")

>>51734491
>if WoD does make this fabled comeback you fanboys are putting so much of your faith in, it'll just be bastardized by its popularity, IF it gets that far at all.
Older editions still exist so it's impossible to truly bastardize the game.

>can you definitively prove that canned campaigns and bloated metaplots are what they all missed about oWoD?
Get with the times, we live in the era of the adventure path now.

>>51734529
You got some sauce for all those spicy claims?

>>51734409
>Even that is fucking extortion for a .pdf file.
It's about average price, actually.

>In the gaming industry, pricing drops once a certain number of units have been sold. Yet in the RPG industry, 25 year old books that are scanned in get charged at top dollar until the oceans rise and consume us all.
Video games are one and done (until recently, and now an entire game is about 200 dollars, including season pass + other dlc). RPG companies have to keep putting shit out..

>>51734556
Let Primeanon have his delusions. Lord knows they have nothing else to hold on to.

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>>51734569

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>>51734541

>tfw dracula will rape the technocratic union in 5e mage

>>51734546
>All the shit gets thrown on the wall and there's something for everybody but it's all boring because it's designed to be aggressively generic and support splat expansion. And even worse, the mechanics are tied to the shitty setting so if you change things you're either going to have throw out or rewrite a lot of mechanics, which begs the question "why don't you just play something else that you don't have to heavily homebrew?"
Neat claim.

Prove it.

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>>51734581

>>51734582
Something something stiff assrape blood gunk.

I forget how it goes.

>>51734546
>Older editions still exist so it's impossible to truly bastardize the game.
Wasn't talking about the game. I meant all the other media platforms it's supposed to be getting on, like movies and netflix and games.

oWoD=the game.
WoD=the setting in general.

I wasn't switching them up for shits and giggles. It's how I differentiate.

>>51734584
>A werewolf, a vampire, and a giant team up to fight a god-machine and its horde of mechanical servants

I'm I describing Pathfinder or CofD? The answer may surprise you!

>>51734629
You can do that, in theory. You can make up whatever shit you want. You can even do something similar in oWoD.

In reality though, crossover isn't very encouraged, and the splats have very different themes and fluff and power levels that keep them from meshing very well. Any official attempts to encourage crossover (cough Beast cough) suck ass, so most people just ignore it. And according to you that's perfectly fine, right?

Ignore X, that's dumb.

>>51734624
None of that will happen. I just can't see it.

>>51734685
None of what will happen? The extra media platforms or the extra media platforms sucking?

>>51734589
Neat. Many thanks

>>51734685
Trump would not happen either. look at the results

>>51734546
>True, but it's easier to be subtractive ("ignore page X, that's dumb") than additive ("Well you see, dickety years ago under the reign of Prince Tom of House Calzone . . .")

Being additive seems easier to me if we're doing OWoD to NWoD, just from the burden of having to read everything and know about Page X.

I mean, I'd never read Freak Legions of my own volition, so some player would just absolutely blind-side me if they brought up the infamous dong-related powers from that book.

>>51734676
>Any official attempts to encourage crossover (cough Beast cough) suck ass

Don't forget that the "official" Crossover Chronicles have actually been announced by OPP.

While details still remain elusive, I do not envy the developer of such an ambitious project and do not anticipate its release anytime soon.

>>51734813
>dong-related powers

#ThyrsusSupremacy

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>>51734582
What is that dog doing oh my god

Is he alright

>>51734836
It'll undoubtedly suck, and be ignored by a majority of players. Proper crossover balance is a pipe dream and trying to mesh the themes in a melting pot would take away all the unique flavors of the different splats.

Not to mention for vampires to have any significant role at all practically everything will have to take place at night.

>>51731796
At least you aren't making metis

>>51734906
>It'll undoubtedly suck

Perish the thought.

I'm confident that in the Crossover Chronicles, an all-star development team of Phil Brucato and Matt McFarland will smooth out any thematic dissonance among the various game line settings, harmonize and balance all mechanics, conclusively resolve the mage supremacy arguments, and offer invaluable political, social and culinary lifestyle advice for all players. It might even cure cancer and end world hunger.

>>51734836
>>51734906

It's unlikely anyone will be able to successfully develop a truly viable crossover product, no less in one reasonable sized book, that manages to resolve all setting and rules problems without raising more questions than it answers.

It would be a herculean effort for conscientious developers like DaveB, and an inevitable train wreck for people like MattM or DavidH.

>>51734906

>unique flavors of the different splats

What, a more boring distilled version of Vampire, Werewolf and Mage? You don't have much to lose with Beast either. It would definitely hurt Demon, Changeling, Geist and probably Promethean.

And as for Mummy, I can't help but see one awaken and be confused at all these assholes trying to befriend it before decimating their buttholes with spooky Egyptian shit.

Do we have approximate release dates for CofD Changeling 2e, Geist 2e and Deviant?

>>51735114
I say this as a magefag, but kicking them out of the playground turns it from an impossible task into just a really, really hard one. Honestly, everything except demons, mummies and mages can sorta, kinda be mashed together and made to work.

>>51735208

Eliminating one of the "Big Three" splats in a crossover product is totally impractical.

I'm also curious how Hunter 2e will deal with similar issues. Will it keep the assumptions of 1e where the pc's only hunt lesser facsimiles of the major splats, or if 2e will have human hunters actually take on potential full-splat equivalents of mages and werewolves.

Is it possible to make a Tzimisce in Requiem? I ask this as someone who's completely ignorant about nWoD.

>>51735319
Yes and no. There's a bloodline called the Norvegi, their the Tzimisce but Norse and with weaker powers.Other than that, you could look into the translation guide.

>>51735339

No Vicissitude or Koldunic equivalents?

>>51734569

Yay!

>>51734893
If you check the text in the background, it's in what looks like thai. Considering that Thailand has a tropical climate and that dogs have sweat glands only on their paws, I would assume he's refreshing himself on cold water.
So yeah, he's ok.

>>51735350
The closest equivalents to Vicissitude would the Norvegi's discipline, Bloodworking, which is a watered down Vicissitude. The closest to Koldunic would be Cruac or Thebian Sorcery.

>>51730395

No it isn't.

>>51735339
There are "translation guides" (conversion guides) for VtM to VtR and WtA to WtF although White Wolf charges $3 for them.

Whats the best Merit to use singing and dancing as Yantra? Shadow Name or Techne?

>>51735938
mutra expression or athletics Rotes

>>51735057
And if you are not of the opinion that it does, you are a MRA, a Trump-Supporter and a satanist

>>51734491
>Also can you definitively prove that canned campaigns and bloated metaplots are what they all missed about oWoD?

I'm sorry.... did you just suggest an entertainment company would pay millions for an IP and not do market research?

I'm not talking to you anymore. I don't speak moron.

>>51734541
>Oh no, help, people who don't agree with me and echo every word I say back at me like the same games as me and want representation. Oh woe is me, what will I do?

People like you shit on about "special snowflakes wanting special treatment in their safe spaces" and then act exactly the same way as the people you criticise. What is it you inbred white powa motherfuckers would say? Oh yes, "here's your coloring book, you cuck retard." Is that enough "red pills" for you motherfucker? Take 22 reds and wash it down with some alcohol, do the world and the gene pool a favour.

>>51734561
>>Even that is fucking extortion for a .pdf file.
>It's about average price, actually.

Wow, the point went over your head so high it scraped the ISS. Other companies don't charge as much for .pdf files and they get by just fine. White Wolf .pdf files are scans of books up to 20 years old. The initial cost of making those books was reclaimed while you were still running home to catch Rugrats on the TV. There is absolutely no reason to charge that much money for a scan, except pure graft. I can accept OPP scans costing more because they need to recoup losses.... oh wait, no I can't, because the money to fund writing and producing them was taken care of from Kickstarter projects. Hi ho, a pirates life for me.

>>In the gaming industry, pricing drops once a certain number of units have been sold. Yet in the RPG industry, 25 year old books that are scanned in get charged at top dollar until the oceans rise and consume us all.
>Video games are one and done (until recently, and now an entire game is about 200 dollars, including season pass + other dlc). RPG companies have to keep putting shit out..

No, they don't. 1e Chrod books are written, published, established, the costs of producing them reclaimed. They are - as you put it - "one and done". There is no reason to keep publishing additional add-on content for gamelines if they're fucking "tool kits" that require the reader to create additional content themselves. The more they do, the more they cram bloat into the gameline until they have to publish Gehenna 2: Electric Boogaloo. There is no way it costs that much money to store an archival copy of a .pdf no matter how badly you wish on a fucking star.

>>51734584
>Prove it.

Well the "aggressively generic" part is pretty easy. Every splat has exactly 5 types and 5 factions. Why? Was there a massive convention in 843 BC where the supernatural community agreed they could only ever be as many races as Rose Bailey has fingers on her right hand? Do they go out and possum stompt anyone who starts a 6th movement because it upsets their sense of symmetry? How does it even remotely make sense?

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>>51734601
>>51734601
>>51734601

>>51734685
Unless you're a CEO of a multimedia company or a consultant in that industry, your opinion is dogshit and I advise you to die choking on a million dicks.

>>51734813
Or you could sack up and say you're not using that book. Show me the written contract we all signed agreeing to use everything Rich Thomas ever dripped his tertiary syphilus on and I'll back down quietly.

>>51735057

> an all-star development team of Phil Brucato and Matt McFarland

Please tell me you jest, anon

>>51734906
Come on Bryce, we have a lot more important issues than vampires participating during the day.

We have to end apartheid for one. And slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.

>>51737219

>less materialism in people

Welp that one is fucked.

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>>51737210
He's kidding. Rich Thomas tried to sell the idea of Brucatto yielding partial control over the Mage line to another developer as a workload issue, but Brucatto doesn't worry about workload because he just gets fucked up on drugs and types streams of consciousness to pad out his word count. If Rich Thomas has even one iota, one quantum of business sense and any ability whatsoever to google up book reviews, he'll realise that allowing Brucatto continued sole creative control on Mage - or, for that matter, input into any other gameline - would be a complete financial disaster.

Remember, we're still waiting on a THIRD book for M20 to explain exactly how the fuck to use the magic system. In a game ostensibly about Mages, no less.

Final argument: the only way Crossover Chronicles will work comes not from writing fluff - arguably Brucatto's strongest talent - but from writing concise, cohesive rulesets that smooth out inconsistencies and clashes between the established rules of the different splats, beyond any question or argument - unequivocally, Brucatto's weakest talent.

>>51735505
Sadly it wasn't updated to 2ed. Guess it's doable thou

So in Awakening if I want to make vampire unable to process vitae of other creatures but make him generate his own what arcana and of what levels should I use?

Same question for disquiet in promethean. How do I shield others from the effects of it or stop promethean from causing it?

>>51737362

Wouldn't curing disquiet for a promethean basically obviate the need to become actually human?

>>51737389

>implying using magic to trample and sidestep the failings of other splats isn't the height of Magedom

>#MageSupremacy

My character Awakened while being gang-raped. Can I use Magic to erase this horrible experience? I'm was saving myself for fiance' on our wedding night.

In awakening can Hunters awaken? They dont have those weird powers in cofd and I had a neat idea for a character who awoke and now is being hunted by his buddies and is struggling with whether or not he should 'take care' of them.

>>51737483
Hunters can Awaken since they are mortal splat

>>51737495
Fucking sweet.

>>51734336
>Their job is to provide a setting and a system for you, and they do that. The books contain everything you need to come up with your own story, and plenty of them have plot hooks, ready made NPCs, fleshed out settings and entire campaigns for you to use if you don't have the brainpower to make shit up.

Except the setting parts i agree. Chrod gives you a setting "outline" but never get into the much needed specifics or offer various bare bones options.

-How do a consilia works? The game shrugs or shrugs and gives me "well it could work like X, Y or Z".

-Thats cool but how would Y interact with the concept of the book? The game answers "Fuck if i know, we are paying you to come up with this kind of stuff."

-No, i am paying you to give me a setting. And the game answers "Who is the idiot now?"

If chrod just gave us mechanics to play a monster thats fine but they set this societies and either dont explain the nuts and bolts of them or just such special snowflakes example that are useless like the 1st city examples from the core.

How a protectorate works? The game answer is a bunch of packs in a city or region that organize to massive hunts. Thats fine and dandy but how they organize? Do they got inner ranks? What happens if a beta in a pack gains more rank in the protectorate than the alpha? How do the protectorate react to pack vs pack conflicts when both pack belong to the protectorate? Do they assign territories? How involved they normally are with the day to day of the packs? All this are question that the game avoids in the name of "toolkit freedom" which is fucking bullshit, you can give me "hey this is how normally works and how, but feel free to change it" and still be a toolkit.

Chrod doesnt need a metaplot but it could use an "standard" for player and dm to start with.

>>51737521
How the books explain to you how they work. Its up to you to create a scenario.

>>51737547
>How the books explain to you how they work. Its up to you to create a scenario.

You might wanna get a refund on your english classes.

>>51737108
>can't prove his claims
>gets ultra defensive of his lord and savior Assrape Dracula BloodGunk

oWoDdfags everyone.

>>51737730
I'm sorry, did you say something? I couldn't make out the words through all the smoke rising from your burning asshair.

>>51737389
I wonder about this. Disuaiet isn't the only thing that fucks with promethean so I guess most would continue on with pilgrimage.

With vampire hunger for vitae is the biggest downside and the thing that keeps you from having normal interactions with everyone. So even if fear of sun and fire stay in place without the need to feed while keeping ability to use vampiric powers you would be golden.

IMHO this isn't the case for the created

Do any of these threads not devolve into 2 faggots fighting over oWoD and nWoD?

Also, since there has been a bit more werewolf talk, Apocalypse ST's, Pentex. Yay or Nay? I tend to use them, and their subsidiaries, quite heavily, but a friend of mine never goes near them. He finds that using real companies adds a lot for his players, since they can relate, but I find it a bit too tryhard. Where do you stand?

>>51737800
I would say it all depends on how much you want to differentiate between setting and real world

I do use real places and products but I draw a line on real people

>>51734561

The average consumer does not buy a game for 2000 USD.

>>51737764
We're on a website. You don't need to hear me, since we're conversing with a visual medium.

Also what I said was: Dracula is a cringe-inducing hack and he will fail you. WoD isn't going to make an amazing comeback. At best you'll get a shitty preachy Werewolf game and maybe new supplements and editions, each one filled with more progressive and culinary sidebars than the last.

So... Anyone ever played a game set in the 1920s?
Which splat would be the most interesting in the prohibition era?
Vampires?

>>51737800
More recently it's largely been devolving into two faggots arguing over Vampire or Mage. Which, frankly, is a retarded argument to have when you can be playing robotic superspies on the run from reality.

>>51737914
cofd or wod?

Because sin-eater paranormal detective in 1920 sounds nice imho

>Lily truly had a heart of gold. Sadly it didn't beat since 1834.

>>51734529
Too bad that:
1) Prime sight doesn't show time dilatations at all, mage would need active Time sight to notice any.
2) There is no reason why timeline one should continue. By your logic timeline two would have to be faster than timeline one to be able to "smash" into it. In timeline one only opportunity to cancel the spell is at the time of casting by good old Counterspell - Clash of Wills, therefore not very reliable.
#TimeSupremacy

>>51734906
>It'll undoubtedly suck
most likely
>ignored by a majority of players
not likely, probably home ruled by most players but there is no reason to think it will be to greater degree than any other home rules

>>51735542
If you specified what part of the post you refer to, I could properly refute it, but this way I can say just:
Yes, it is.

>>51737362
Easier would be probably some Time fuckery to let vampire consume animal vitae regardless of BP.
#TimeSupremacy

>>51737952
Yeah, I'd imagine that Geist, Vampire, Promethean, or perhaps Demon or Changeling would be the best fits for the era.

>>51737914
I imagine vampires would have fucking ruled the Prohibition, what with speakeasies and such, not to mention that disappearances wouldn't be questioned too closely, especially if you were setting it closer to the Great Depression, which saw a lot of people leaving their homes to look for greener pastures.

>>51738012
Speaking of Great Depression Carnivale tv series would be some great inspiration for cofd set in that time period

>>51729410
I was reading about the Asakku recently. This isn't the first revision of the souleaters I've seen. Conrad Hubbard's website had an article which retconned the souleaters into pre-Revolt Tzimisce elders seeking revenge against the Sabbat. IIRC, Greyjackal fan productions intended to expand the Asakku to encompass other disciplines like Chimerstry, Dementation and Obtenebration and explain the Baali as the Asakku's allies.

Does that expanded Asakku idea have merit?

>>51738012
Perhaps even just a mortals game, occasionally brushing up against Supernatural stuff, as they investigate and try and deal with spooky, or just plain creepy stuff.

Every time I think about a historical game, the historical parts eventually just keep getting pushed aside by the Supernatural stuff until it feels like nothing but wallpaper.

>>51738157
Hunters as cops in prohibition era shoul allow enough supernatural stuff while protecting the "fluff" of the setting

>>51737800
Yay.

I even use the Pentex subsidiaries in other games. It adds to the overall "feel" of the WoD, adds to the unique flavour. Players fill up on fuel at Enron fuel stations, meet at midnight in O'Tolley's Burger joints, get wasted on King Lager.

Then they wonder why the strange Lupines hate them even more....

I want to run easygoing Mage game so the characters can get aquainted with local Caucuses and Consilia. Nothing world shattering, that for the big boys. What kind of Mysteries can they investigate at a local, street level?

>>51737899
Oh, so now you're a psychic? Did your Pickup Artist Handbook include crystal ball gazing instructions as well as "redpills" on how to be a fucking loser?

Vampire 5th is being handled entirely "in-house" by WWP, sucka. Onyx Path and it's culinary bullshit are being kept at arm's length, to sell crappy Chrod add-ons to pathetic millenial bitches. You should be well catered for.

>>51737914
I ran Giovanni Chronicle IV, "Nouva Mallatia" and that started in that exact period. Fuck it was fun... but it got really dark, really quickly. I kept my players stoned out of their minds so they could cope, but even then....

there's a bit where they suggest you get one of the players to run a child prostitution racket out of a bus behind a speakeasy, and keep it quiet from the others. Humanity rolls ahoy.

>>51738609
Get them haunted house on the hill maybe? It's cliche but you can probably put a spin on it.

After they are almost done with investigation everything out of nowwhere wrecking crew comes in and destroys the house along with answers your players are looking for so they can start investigating wrecking company and discover it does not exist. And there is a new fast food joint in the place of the house. And everyone they talk to thinks that joint was there for a long time. I guess this would work more in hunter or something.

>>51738609
How about a Numbers Station?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station

One of these starts communicating and it seems like the broadcast is following the players. Pretty soon the numbers on it start haunting the players, showing up again and again. What the fuck is going on? Who is doing this, and why?

>>51736065
But isn't that true? If you're feeling challenged and threatened by trans characters, gay characters and characters with a mental illness, but you don't take issue with diabolists, infernalists or rape metaphors, maybe you should do some soul searching and ask yourself why.

>>51738879
There is a difference between feeling threatened and pandering.

>>51738879

People don't feel threatened by those.
They feel like it takes up unnecesarry wordcount and doesn't really need to be included.

I get the two to three pages spread of Body dysphoria in Mummy, where you sometimes inhabit a body completely different from your own. If they had something like this with Demon that'd be fine too.

Mental illnesses have been part of WoD since time immemorial.

What seems stupid is the Xie/xhu/zie/whatever, the whole thing about vampire menstrual cycles, The need to include at least one trans character in every new supplement. That's kind of annoying in all honesty.

Imagine if every supplement had to contain at least one Satanist, MRA or Trump Supporter. Wouldn't that get annoying fast?

>>51729583
I think they both suck, so I just mix and match the fluff I like with a better rule system. I adapted a three faction model: the Wylders/Garou want to turn Earth into a fascist SJW paradise where humans are cattle, the Weavers/Technocracy fight for progress, and the Wyrms/Forsaken fight alien invaders. They more or less operate openly but Lunacy convinces the muggles no supernal nonsense is involved, just an epidemic of terrorists and vigilantes.

>>51739488
>the Wyrms/Forsaken fight alien invaders.
did you just turn Werewolf into XCOM? that would be tight as fuck

>>51739488

SJW literally doesn't mean anything in the context you're using it you fucking retard. The only SJW Tribe is the Children of Gaia.

>>51739400
Yes, and the difference is the groups in question.

If it applies to me, then it must be pandering.

If it doesn't apply to me, then I feel threatened.

That seems to be the way most of you in this thread operate, anyway....

What's the best way to find a sympathetic yantra to teleport off planet?

>>51739682
I'm not sure if teleporting can do that in 2e, but stones or sand from the moon or asteroids could do the trick.
Also, you could possibly argue that the sun is in sensory range.

>>51739656

So what happens if something doesnt apply to me but i think is pandering? I dont exist? I am a paradox?

>>51739469
>What seems stupid is the Xie/xhu/zie/whatever,

I'll grant you that one. I know a bunch of people with very unusual identities, and not one of them wants their own unique gender identifier. Trans people identify as whatever they're transitioning to. It's outsiders that tend to want to pidgeonhole them as some kind of "3rd sex", and Brucatto is guilty of this too. The message is clear: Trans people have given up their first gender to transition to the second gender, and end up becoming neither. No trans person thinks that way.

> the whole thing about vampire menstrual cycles,

You'd be amazed what players have arguments about. Then again, if you sit and think about it, I'm sure you could come up with a few anecdotes yourself.

> The need to include at least one trans character in every new supplement. That's kind of annoying in all honesty.

Why? There are no reliable statistics on the prevalence of trans people in any given population, but trans people often dwell on the fringes of society. So does literally every supernatural splat. Why is it so triggering for you to consider that the two groups might overlap? Why does it upset you so much that trans players might want to see some representation in media that doesn't involve them pulling off the old Crying Game "surprise, I have a cock" trope?

>Imagine if every supplement had to contain at least one Satanist, MRA or Trump Supporter.
Given the prevalence of people identifying as the last two, it wouldn't surprise me if that becomes the case in future titles. If that happens, I will do something stupendously radical - I'll choose what to use from the books... or even change stuff. I know, I know, dangerous thinking there. After all, when we bought OPP/WWP products, we all sat down and signed a document written entirely in Rich Thomas' precum promising that we would use every single facet of every publication ever put out by those companies, and I will likely be sued into oblivion. Right?

>>51739760
I seem to recall something about this on the official forums. I believe you can the trick is finding something with a link to where you want to go.

>>51739575
>waaaaah you're not using my meaningless buzzword appropriately
>i'm dobbing on you
>@therealdonaldtrump - OMG 4chan is picking on me, nuke m00t's private moonbase, okthnxbi #triggered #ein_volk_ein_reich_ein_fake_tan

>>51739575
I take a dim view of WTA's ecoterrorist stance. I like having penicillin and clean drinking water and not having my wisdom teeth rotting out of my mouth. The Garou will only ever be villains to me and the setting is contrived to make them right.

>>51739503
>did you just turn Werewolf into XCOM?
Idigam are LITERALLY aliens from the moon in WtF

>>51739797
Then you're threatened by it pandering to everyone except you, obviously. Duh.

>>51739830
Tell that shit to Flint, Michigan, pal.

>>51739503
I haven't play so I don't know. The aliens want to xenoform Earth, but they have to do that or they will die off. It's a choice between death or genocide for both sides.

>>51735204
Possibly all within this year. I'd guess Changeling is coming in spring or so. Since it was supposed to be out last year. Geist is moving along surprisingly fast, but I'd guess maybe around Fall release? Deviant is hard to tell but Beast didn't take too long to come out after its kickstarter.

page 165
Prime
Purview: Magic,

>>51739857
>UFO: the aliens are harvesting earth for food and DNA to perpetuate and strengthen their war machine and take control of an ancient martian city that is the last remnant of the extremely advanced race that created humanity
>TFTD: a half dead half alive horror begins to awaken and intends to turn the earth into a hatchery for their new empire
>APOC: aliens from another universe seek to colonize our universe on a quest to inhabit the ultimate physical form

>newxcom: the aliens seek to harvest DNA to grow their already considerable psychic abilities
>X2: alternate time line where you lost in NX, the aliens turn out to be fighting a two front war against something that's consuming sapient races whole planets at a time.

but what you got there, sounds pretty fuckin' xcom to me lad

>>51737980
>>51739977

Time dilation is magic therefore prime can see it. knowing prime

page186
While still in the past, if the spell that projected the traveler
backwards is dispelled, he returns to the present but any changes
he made to history are reversed.

yeah I'm right. otherwise this sentence makes no sense.

#PrimeSupremacy

>>51739830
>I take a dim view of WTA's ecoterrorist stance. I like having penicillin and clean drinking water and not having my wisdom teeth rotting out of my mouth. The Garou will only ever be villains to me and the setting is contrived to make them right.

The Technocracy were the only true heroes of the oWOD.

#RealityDeviantsOnlyCareAboutThemselves

>>51740013
Didn't they was a thing with creep covering Earth and dying into a psychic scream, leading some human tribe to develop mutation. Then human living into space station after getting BTFO by the Aliens come back on earth to reclaim it. A bunch of Alien riding basicly Space Horse as giant ship come in and nobody know why.

And then we learn that the Space horse where the master since the begining and they want to fuck the creep cause they are the male and she is the female.

Fucking Asimov Tiers.

>>51739799

>Why is it so triggering for you to consider that the two groups might overlap? Why does it upset you so much that trans players might want to see some representation in media that doesn't involve them pulling off the old Crying Game "surprise, I have a cock" trope?

It's not 'triggering' to me. I was mostly translating what I saw from most of the arguments here.

That being said Trans people do dwell on the edges of society. Which makes it odd for them to show up in every book. If they're really that uncommon, why are they in nearly every book?

Personally I'd leave changing gender up to the players and the GM. We don't need sidebars explaining what they are or what they're doing in the game. It's as irrelevant as talking about cucumber farmers if your game doesn't deal with cucumberfarming. It's taking up space for more generally applicable stuff.

I'll just file the last part of your post under 'incoherent anger' and not respond.

>>51740227
I'm going to need a goddamn rosetta stone to decipher that post

>>51739977
Too bad that's not how Sight works, read p. 191 to understand what to respective Sights actually detect.

>>51740042
Time dilatation is not magic, it's time dilatation (duh). Even Demons can fuck with time, hell in GodMachine chronicle time travel is "common theme".
As for page 186, simpler explanation is that whoever sees the time traveller (identified by Time Sight) in the new past can dispel the spell also in that new past (which actually doesn't even happen if the dispel is successful).

>>51740282
>I'll just file the last part of your post under 'incoherent anger' and not respond.

...he typed, as he responded.

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>>51738091
>Does that expanded Asakku idea have merit?

Hmm, potentially... though, I do prefer the idea of the Asakku having to use a *physical* discipline to spread their curse/influence/whatever, rather than just pointing a finger at someone from across the street and going "lol, u one of us now, kthxbai".

If Chimerstry, Obtenebration and Dementation were included, then the Asakku could spread their "gift" through many other avenues than just fleshcrafting, and to me, that sort of "cheapens" the concept of the Asakku as I see it, because I really like the idea of them being spread through flesh/blood and nothing else.

>>51739830
At least Garou have an excuse of trying to save earth/the universe. Meanwhile mage traditions just want to do it because muh paradox.

>>51740590
I was always under the impression the traditions just wanted it because they got butthurt they aren't god kings on earth anymore, but i guess you could sum that up as 'muh paradox'

#TheTechnocracyWasRight

This guy again:
>>51732059

Anyone have any experience randomising things like vampire clan or, in this case, your werewolf auspice? I was considering having my players roll to see which auspice they belong too (still choosing their tribe) to try and make things more interesting, rather than have the super generic party that literally everyone has seen/played.

Also, what age do people usually go through their first change? As I was thinking of having all the characters start a few weeks after their first change, and go from there.

>>51729410
in 2E mage, can you have a spell as both a rote and a praxes?

>>51740677
No, and buying a rote you have a praxis for refunds your xp on the praxis IIRC

>>51740702
aww, i was hoping to have a super signature spell.

>>51740607

In wta the first change happens in adolescense. For ramdom auspice you could roll a d10. I wouldnt recomend random tribe though some tribes dont fit all games.

>>51740607
>Anyone have any experience randomising things like vampire clan or, in this case, your werewolf auspice?

Don't just randomise shit when there's no need to do it.

If you've got a player who wants to just pick a random ahroun or can't deicde what to pick, roll the dice. Otherwise, let the players decide for themselves.

Nothing sucks more than making a character concept centered around, like, an academic or a scholar, and then getting a random stat that goes "WELP, LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE BEST SUITED TO BE A WARRIOR, LOLOLOLOL, NO TAKEBACKS".

Give players more options, not less.

Although, while more options is usually better, in the case of vampire clans it's sometimes a bit different, since noob players (or just idiotic players) might want to play a clan that pretty much belongs to another sect entirely without understanding how that's both A: rare, and B: not always such a brilliant idea... like Lasombra or some shit.

If that happens (let's say they want to play a Lasombra), either tell them to make a Caitiff instead and let them pick Obtenebration as one of their starting disciplines, or impose penalties upon the player for picking that clan/bloodline... for example, the Lasombra are very gung-ho when it comes to wiping out their Antitribu and "defectors", and young fledglings are usually easy prey for a Sabbat warparty, so include stuff that might throw wrenches in the party's plan on account of what clan/bloodline they picked, and that sort of thing.

>>51740607
>Also, what age do people usually go through their first change

>"The First Change usually occurs around sexual maturity, between ages 10-16 for humans and approximately 2 years of age for wolves."
-- W20 Core Rulebook, p. 42

>"Metis are born in Crinos form, and may undergo the First Change anywhere from their first year of life to the onset of puberty. For this reason, they are raised within a sept, away from human eyes."
-- W20 Core Rulebook, p. 44

>>51733215
>shitty version of Finnegan's Wake

Better version here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6QTwZDzak4

>>51740677
>in 2E mage, can you have a spell as both a rote and a praxes?

Yes, you can purchase both the Rote and Praxis of a spell.

However, you cannot combine them when spellcasting. You can cast either the Rote or the Praxis, but not benefit from both.

>>51740872
gotcha.

>>51738624
Yeah we'll see how it turns out with its stiff assrape bloodgunk.

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>>51740922
I'm hoping for a 5th Edition Freak Legion book personally. And I know they don't really need it these days but I hope they bring back the 'Black Dog' name for the more ridiculous supplements.

>>51740607
I've played in a few games where the storyteller had us roll for clan and generation, it made things interesting, though I wouldn't do it if your players aren't ok with it. If they really want to play something specific, I see no reason to stop them.

>>51740805
>Nothing sucks more than making a character concept centered around, like, an academic or a scholar, and then getting a random stat that goes "WELP, LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE BEST SUITED TO BE A WARRIOR, LOLOLOLOL, NO TAKEBACKS".

That would be true if he was talking about making all of character generation random, but I don't think picking auspice randomly will impact characters all that much, would make them more interesting if anything.

A scholarly type who is pushed into a warrior role, seeing whether that character accepts his place reluctantly or tries to fight this forced placement would be an interesting character arc. Its not as if this isn't unheard of

>>51740957
>incorporating Extra Limbs into this Power can duplicate some of the weirder perversions of Japanese animé, like vaginal tentacles or gun-wielding phalli

So this book is a joke, right?

>>51741182
>So this book is a joke, right?
Brucato has a writers credit so I doubt it. It fits in with the rape tactics of the Black Spirals well enough. Mix that in with the body horror of the fomori and it almost makes sense.

>>51741063
>I don't think picking auspice randomly will impact characters all that much

Except for all the extra Rage, the Starting Gifts and the Renown, much of which might be completely at odds with the character concept.

Again, in my opinion, there's zero need from a ST perspective to have it be random, just as there isn't a need to force people to pick only certain auspices because "muh story" or some other unnecessary crap.

If a ST can't deal with the fact that players want (reasonable) choice rather than randomness when designing their characters, then I'd urge the players to find a new ST who isn't a huge faggot.

>>51741063
>A scholarly type who is pushed into a warrior role, seeing whether that character accepts his place reluctantly or tries to fight this forced placement would be an interesting character arc. Its not as if this isn't unheard of

Sure, I wouldn't mind such a concept! But it's not about what *I* want, it's about what the player wants and whether or not such a character would be fun to play in their eyes.

If a player wants to play a scholar-forced-to-become-a-warrior, awesome. If a player wants to play as a regular scholar, great. If a player wants to play a stereotypical berserker-werewolf, go for it.

As long as it's reasonable, as a ST I really don't care what sort of concepts they want to play, as long as it's not some mary-sue fetish thing or some shit like that. My job is just to create entertaining stories that will let both them, and me, to have fun in our sessions.

But hey, if the players all *want* to have random auspices/tribes/breeds or whatever as a houserule, fine by me. I just don't think it should be something that an ST should force upon a group in any way, because that just doesn't sound fun to me.

>>51740957
Like, this makes sense, but why did they ever feel like this needed a rule?

>>51740501
Technically each type of Asakku would be wholly separate. You can only be the puppet of one antediluvian at a time. The vector would be different for each, but equally difficult for balance reasons.

Chimerstry uses Changeling's chimerical reality as the vector, so a Chimerical Asakku would essentially be an adhene. They develop a Shadow/Po that will gaslight them with thorns.

Spreading dementation would involve gaslighting the subject and convincing them of the insane truths underlying reality. They're crazy, which isn't obvious but makes them a danger to everyone around them.

Spreading Obtenebration would use the subjects' reflection/shadow as the vector (or mental shadow/khaibit/po/etc if present). The obvious symptoms are loss of reflection, corruption of digital recordings, phobia of mirrors, and an animated shadow.

>>51741337
So that you know that the enemies in the setting aren't just rapists (who are bad), but Super Rapists (who are Super Bad).

>>51741333
> I just don't think it should be something that an ST should force upon a group in any way

agreed, which is why I told him to only do it if his players were ok with it.

But I also think that choosing things like auspices randomly CAN be entertaining, and it has the potential to add quite a lot to a character who may otherwise have been fairly plain. I don't know what that other guys group is like but I know plenty of players who just don't make good concepts, or who fail to think deeper about their PC's. Not people who WANT to play simple characters but rather, players who wish to make interesting characters but just don't have the experience or the know-how as to what makes characters interesting.

>>51740590
>>51740602
The handling of factions is marred by heavy handed writing and political bias. I think they would work better with genuine moral ambiguity rather than making the heroes and villains into caricatures.

WTA could give the triat good and bad sides rather than forcing the Weaver and Wyrm into villanous roles.

Maybe the Wyrm has several factions: crazy destroyers who don't understand what they're doing but believe it's right anyway, heroes who want to purify the world, and an innocent anti-gaia who thrives on toxic waste.

Same for Weaver and Wyld. The Weaver could have an OCD faction that wants to freeze the world, a heroic faction that believes in technological progress, and some guys who just want to live in a world with plumbing and medicine. The wyld could have crazy religious far-left luddites who want to conquer the world, crazies who want to return reality to pure chaos, and those who are simply trying to protect their corner of the environment but don't care about the rest of reality.

It's easy enough to spin the Technocracy, Traditions, Marauders and Nephandi into heroic, villainous and ambiguous sub-factions.

>>51738733
They actually did number stations in Summoners. It's ghosts working for demon-worm things looking to devastate the world.

>>51741660
>It's ghosts working for demon-worm things looking to devastate the world.

So, a typical Tuesday in the CofD.

As with all apocalypse-level events, better call in the mages...

>>51741697
Wasn't that the point in the book? Mages fiddling around with the Mystery of number stations and cracking their codes would actively free the demon-worm things (Helmenth)?

>>51741898
Yeah, the numbers were coded coordinates that led to obelisk things, and activating like 6, 7, or 8 of them would release the Helmenth.

>>51739799
>There are no reliable statistics on the prevalence of trans people in any given population

Most of the ones I've seen suggest it's around 0.03% in America at least.

I'm not the anon you replied to, but personally it feels like the trans people that keep getting introduced always seem to have their gender as the central thing about them. Their being trans is nearly always their defining trait, and as a result the characters feel shallower and made-for-quota than they should as people.

>>51742001

So like when DC or Marvel write a brand new gay character and their defining feature is being gay?

>>51742001
To be fair, I can imagine that it's tough to please both crowds. On the one hand, you don't want a character to be only defined by their sexual or gender identity, but on the other hand, the point of representation is an exploration of the issues, struggles or whatever of the group that is represented.

>>51731869
>and a little more of it in thr fiction anthology
Which story?

>>51737176
nah, demons don't.

>>51742066
>DC
>Marvel
>writing brand new characters
o i am laffin.

It's all about minority legacies these days anon. Iron Man is a black girl, Thor is a woman with cancer, Hulk is asian (that book was good though), and there's a younger version of Iceman running around who is apparently gay for some reason when his adult self is straight.

>>51742066
As a fagfag myself I really hate this virtue signaling bullshit. That the Onyx Path writers are often LGBT themselves only gives us all a bad name.

Write characters first, then assign the diversity quota. Don't write them as gay first and characters second. Also, don't write minority characters into a game where everyone is literally a blood-sucking reanimated corpse, a technophobic dogfucker, or an evil magician with aims of world domination.

Vykos is an evil undead transhuman, not a goodly transexual. No real transexual would ever identify with that thing.

>>51742001
>Their being trans is nearly always their defining trait
fucking this

Its the same shit that bad female characters get, where them NOT being a male is all the character has going for them. For trans-characters, a lot of their 'character' is that their trans. Its just bad writing.

The thing people need to realise is that while transitioning genders IS a big deal to the person in question, it doesn't keep being the most important aspect of someones life. I know people who where born men and have been women for years, and the fact is that it stopped mattering after a year or two. They stopped being a trans-woman and just ended up being a woman.

There's a Tzimisce character in canon that changes his gender somewhat frequently, and while I can't tell anyone if he's well written, as I don't know, I do know that his transitioning gender is a very minor facet of his character, especially since hes centuries old. I feel like this is the way to go, have it be a part of their character, but I minor one. Since gender is rarely important to a lot of well written characters anyway. Its occasionally an incredibly important aspect, but that's the exception, not the rule.

>>51742146
Not him, but I see your point. The thing is though, writers should try and write good characters. By simply filling an acceptance quota, you literally do not help ANYone. Do trans-people/blacks/woman/literally anything that isnt a white male, want to look at the characters that represent them and see nothing but poorly written garbage? Maybe, but I doubt it. I'm not a writer, so I cant pretend to know how to write them properly, but I know it has to be something better than what we get.

>>51742185
Umm its wolf fucker and not all werewolves fuck wolves anyways you bigot
#NotAllGarou
#GarouDidNothingWrong
#FuckTheWyrm
#KeepThingsPure

>>51738879
It is not "threatening", it is annoying, pure and simple. Keep the preachy stuff out of your writing and your sidebars (since it only takes wordcount away), incorporate well-written characters that are more than a collection of attributes like "trans", "mentally ill" or "gay" (unlike the M20 quickstarter) and no one has any reason to complain

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>>51742240

>#KeepThingsPure

GET BACK TO YOUR SPIRIT COPS GAME FORSAKENFAG AAAWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>51734569
By the gods, is the appointed hour nigh? Has the light of Sothis at last stirred this ancient from its tomb?

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What is your favorite Bastet tribe, /wodg/?

>>51742312
The dead ones.

>>51740478
well, he didn't respond to the passive-aggressive last part, didn't he?

>>51742312
Cats are shit
>>51742282
I like both

>>51742192
>There's a Tzimisce character in canon that changes his gender somewhat frequently, and while I can't tell anyone if he's well written

If you're talking about Sascha Vykos than its most defining character trait is being a horrific gender monster who most notably tore off and threw its penis at someone in canon.

>>51742312
Why does that cat look like a instagram celebrity?

>>51742347
>tore off and threw its penis at someone in canon.
If that's not what being a vampire is all about I don't know what is. What's a few vitae for the look on the face of someone who just had a cock thrown at them?

>>51741458
Isn't that exactly what happened in later editions to the Technocracy?

>>51737176
>Prometheans have seven Lineages and ten Refinements
>Changelings have six Seemings (eight now) and four Courts (later expanded to an infinite number)
>Demons have four Incarnations and four Agendas

???

>>51741458
Werewolves as a whole aren't great with nuance, a subtle enemy would fail completely as a game for the culture presented because they can barely agree to attack the cartoon overtly evil one.

>>51742347
>who most notably tore off and threw its penis at someone in canon.
Fucking damnit.

Daksha are trannies done right.

>>51737176
A mage did it

>>51742312
The ones with the Disney names

>>51742405
Archmastery in nWoD does prove intelligent design...

>>51742342
>Cats are shit

You're shit.

>>51742404

Daksha are Theosophical throwbacks to proto-Nazi philosophy and exist as either a third gender or as heramphroditic "perfected beings" akin to an alchemical rebis more than any sort of trans representation.

I think OPP has been pretty even-handed with trans characters, speaking as one myself, though I am pissed that the Promethean 2e chapter with nonstandard pronouns used them wrong. Did that ever get fixed?

>>51742236
>The thing is though, writers should try and write good characters.
I agree wholeheartedly. If I had to give a recommendation, maybe link the character's sexual or gender identity to one of his issues, but make the issue not wholly dependent on that. Something like "He was brought up in a strict catholic household, and thus struggles not only with the blooddrinking/magical experiments/praying to Luna, but also with the fact that he feels himself drawn to men". Or something.

>>51742441
Wasn't really talking about representation so much as I was that Daksha seems like an ideal legacy for trans Mages who want to permanently change their genders.

If you can get past the third eye and all the Nazi shit that is, but hey, I did.

>>51741660
>>51741697
>>51741898
>Mages and number stations

Mages are apparently the primary source of and solution to most of the worst near extinction-level events in the CofD.

Mages, can't live with them, can't live without them.

>>51742370
The problem is that many fans refuse to recognize their preferred faction could be anything but paragons of (incredibly warped) virtue.

>>51742383
>cartoonish
That is why I don't like the game. I'm not a child watching care bears anymore.

>>51742240
Couldn't we retcon them as separate species rather than literal human/wolf crossbreeds? Or retcon wolves as fairy tale talking animals?

>>51742066
>So like when DC or Marvel write a brand new gay character and their defining feature is being gay?

Gay Lightning ?

Trans Lightning ?

>>51742497

The Daksha don't really transition from one sex to another; they rest in a sort of middle ground. A lot of occult tradition has that sort of weird union of masculine and feminine as a metaphor for perfection.

I still think its stupid that you apparently can't just cast a Lasting sex change Life spell and be done with it, but whatever.

>>51741458

>durr every faction should be dindus

>>51741458

>a heroic faction that believes in technological progress

Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers already exist, as do a number of Fera who aren't completely 'hurr durr Weaver'.

Werespiders already get to be snowflakes who follow a Mary Sue version of the 'Good' Weaver who can totes fix every setting problem if she wasn't locked up in her magic prison.

>>51742404
>Daksha are trannies done right.

Neo-Nazi mage supremacist sociopaths ???

>>51742550
I am aware that Daksha are hermaphrodites, but they can switch between a male and female form.

>>51742352

Good facial symmetry from a human perspective, also the photography.

>>51742517

They're made of spirit stuff as much as human and wolf.

>>51742589
Yes.

>>51742550
I mean indefinite is fine, unless somebody at the Consilia meeting is a massive asshole it's not going to be an issue.

>>51742517

I wish you faggots would actually read up on the material you claim to hate instead of scrawling through a cliff-notes version found on 1d4chan or fucking tvtropes.

>>51742517
>I'm not a child watching care bears anymore.
Its really more like Captain Planet than Care Bears... But the xenophobic bigot angle can get old pretty fast.

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>>51742630
I can't hate it no matter how dumb it gets and I don't know why.
Freak Legion is such a fun book.

>>51742580
The books state the Glasswalkers are misguided. A few obscure camps scattered across dozens of books are hardly representative. This moral ambiguity needs to be front and center. We can't have radical technophobic terrorists represent the average character.

>>51742618
Then make them the demigod children of wolf spirits, not wolves. It's way less creepy.

>>51742630
I read the 1e storyteller handbook which had essays on moral ambiguity. The problem is that the fans only seem to want loony ecoterrorists.

>>51742621
Yeah can't you make spells have indefinite duration now in 2e?

So that would be what, a permanent Shapechanging spell?

>>51742591
>I am aware that Daksha are hermaphrodites, but they can switch between a male and female form.

As can virtually all Thyrsus, and a great many other mages. When you can alter reality with ease, changing your genitals doesn't really seem all that impressive a feat.

Mages are one of the few splats where the included short sidebar about a character's physical sex was at least generally relevant to the material and not blunt and blatant pandering or virtue signalling.

>>51742700
Im hoping Signs of Sorcery will have more information about when you can make a spell lasting and alternate ways to release spells.

>>51742716
>short sidebar about a character's physical sex was at least generally relevant to the material and not blunt and blatant pandering or virtue signalling.

As opposed to Mummy (where characters' shifting Memory literally shapes their physical forms and they can also transplant into new bodies leading to obvious dysphoria) or Demon (where characters switch between many bodies and have to decide their own gender because sex is fleeting and unassigned for them) or Promethean (where you are in someone else's body and the game is all about building up your own identity in a manner that some can and do read as a transgender metaphor narrative)?

>>51742716
You'd need to be an Adept of Life though, and for a non-Thyrsus that's a heavy investment.

You'd have to really want it.

>>51742621
>unless somebody at the Consilia meeting is a massive asshole

Have you read Mage?

Have you encountered Mage fans?

If a group of mages have an opportunity to dicks, they will definitely be dicks on a cosmic scale. I believe this is actually a rule. Resisting being a douche is Sin against Falling Wisdom.

Mage could easily be re-titled to Mage: The Assholing

>>51742769
What about werewolf butt-babies?

>>51742692
>Then make them the demigod children of wolf spirits, not wolves. It's way less creepy.
They literally are in Forsaken

>>51742787
I never did like this stereotype.

In all the Mage games I've played I've never encountered any kind of special assholishness that the other splats couldn't have themselves.

>>51742812

Wasn't that in the context of "spirits are already fluid creatures who reject the strict nature of flesh and so the Forsaken likewise aren't terribly bound to a sexual binary or a singular form?"

Which reminds me, Forsaken By Rome had better stick real close to the Mother Wolf thing. It makes much more sense in that setting and I hope more 2e material plays with the "Mother Wolf and Father Luna" stuff.

>>51742787
>>51742821

I am a proud asshole

>Mage Supremacy