/5eg/ Fifth Edition General: Hexblade edition

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I tried to fix it. Be cruel and angry, you need practice for when the survey comes around.

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>>51714754
>>51715111
Doubt the posters are still here, but with this turbocharged Magic Missile, what happens if the BBEG has the Shield spell?

>>51720855
>Which makes a better gish? Stone sorcerer or pact of blade/hexblade warlock?

>>51720917
It doesn't even matter, because if your DM is allowing a nuclear druid in the first place then your campaign is already a fucking joke.

>>51720893
At level 2 only having cantrip-empowering abilities is definitely ok. At level 14 it's definitely not ok. Now let's decide around which level to draw the line.

>>51720897
Well that fucks up the whole thing. I still supportb light activity like walking (at a reasonable pace) during short rests, and I see absolutely no reason why riding in a cart would preclude a short rest even by RAW - if for no other reason than Warlock is my favorite class and I'd rather suck their dick than dick them over.

>>51720917
You need to have a counterspell ready.

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What are the best options for a spellsword, preferably Sorcerer of Wizard?

>>51720942
The whole short rest/long rest dynamic is fucked anyway. Any time a party is going to stop adventuring, it's almost always going to be a long rest.

Short rest classes are built to rest after basically every combat which slows the game down unbearably. Give short rest classes auto-recharge (abilities recharge while travelling and such) or shorten the definition of a short rest to like 15 minutes.

Hey 5eg, our group is coming from 4e and we all like that edition's particular style of combat, how would model something similar in 5e?

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Can a Hexblade just pick up the medium armor and shield they got and stick to Eldritch Blast, the whole time ignoring the magic sword telling them how awesome it would be to sword things?

>>51720942
A short rest should be things like, breaking for lunch, taking a nap, resting after a sports event, watching a show, things that let you just relax.

Walking isn't restful, it just isn't strenuous.

I've always let people rest in the back of a wagon or in a caravan if they don't have a job to do.

>>51720957
Use and enforce the 2-short-2-short-2-long rest cycle and everything works out pretty damned well. Time the lengths of each for the pace of the campaign. If the pace changes by which i mean, over time and lasting, not the occasional slow/busy day, change the rules to keep it working.

>>51720953
Favored Soul sorcerer, Bladesigner wizard, Eldritch Knight fighter, Blade-Pact Warlock (mostly if your DM allows the brand new Hexblade).

>>51720957
I don't think an hour is an unreasonable time frame as long as you allow non-strenuous physical activity like traveling or searching.

>>51720962
Literally 4e with different terminology, no minions, and no marking.

>>51720973
Yes.

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Any suggestions for running a low magic sword & sorcery campaign in feudal Japan?

I plan to create my own map and history for the setting, but it's going to be very similar to Sengoku period. It's going to be for a very small number of players (2, with a 3rd player who might be dropping in and out.)

I'm not sure if I should focus on Oni hunting in a strict kill monsters/get treasure kind of game, or if I should try to get the players mixed up in the less mechanical aspects of roleplaying in the era. Players have expressed interest in both types.

Any input or stories would be appreciated.

>>51720976
Not mentioning stone sorcerer

>>51720957
>Any time a party is going to stop adventuring, it's almost always going to be a long rest.
A short rest isn't stopping adventuring. It's stopping for lunch and catch your breath.

An hour is not that long of an amount of time. Unless you literally JUST ran from a fight with others, you're going to be able to get a short rest relatively easily. By the time your rest is done you might have people starting to do patrols for intruders that you can face off after you caught your breath.

Stop depending on 3.5e's 15-minute-work-day. You don't have to fully retreat to get some resources back.

>>51720996
Hadn't actually read that UA. I mostly tune them out - I paid attention to the latest because I am a huge whore for making the Bladelock better.

>>51720976
>I don't think an hour is an unreasonable time frame as long as you allow non-strenuous physical activity like traveling or searching.
Walking around for an hour doesn't let you do some of the things that might be required in a short rest, like treating wounds, spending time in prayer, mediating, communing with nature, or going over the notes of your spell book.

Walk for some of the time, sure, i'd let you do some window shopping for 10 minutes, and you aren't bed ridden, so feel free to get a snack, but if you are straight up traveling? No, that doesn't qualify for my games.

>>51720973
Yes. And Hexblade's Curse works on EB stuff too (meaning Hexblades are both the best bladelocks AND the best EBlocks). And also the best sorclock.

That's inevitable I suppose.

Going to be running a game for some relative newbs soon, was wondering if anyone on /tg/ has tried the alternative spell points rule in the DMG? I was thinking of applying it to sorcerers so they feel like something other than "worse wizard". It seems like it would be pretty good, anyone actually used it?

>>51721013
You missed this whole conversation in the last topic. Essentially every caster is a "worse wizard" unless your DM is doing something to reign in the power/versatility of wizards.

>>51720975
>>51721001

that's how it's supposed to be but that's never how it is with rests.

>>51721013
I use the spell points rules for sorcerers, but rather than the stated method of high level spells, which is a limit on straight up casting them, i use
>At level 11 choose a level 6 spell from the Sorcerer spell list. You may cast this spell without spending spell points. Once you cast a spell in this way, you can't cast it again until after a long rest.

>At level 13, choose a 7th level spell, at 15 an 8th level spell, and at 17 a 9th level spell for this feature.

It slightly hurts the versatility, but it also lets them spend more points on upranking spells, since they still the same number of normal points.

>>51721013
It requires slightly more bookkeeping, but as long as you enforce the 'only one spell per level per day of 6 and higher' it's exactly on par with spell slots until about level 19, where slot casters get a second level 6 slot. It also lets sorcs throw out about a billion level one spells per day at high levels, which is thematically appropriate.

If you do it, you should also roll their sorcery points into the pool and have all their abilities run from the same resource. The rules for converting sorcery points into spell slots actually cost the exact same as casting a spell with spell points, so it increases their options further.

As far as making them something that's not a 'worse wizard', the reason wizards are better is that, given enough time and resources, they can learn literally every spell on their class list - sorcs can't, and there's no way past that.

>>51721045
>never how it is
Except for in almost all of the games I've run for the last two years?

>>51721045
I always see people saying that, but the only reason it wouldn't work is if people choose for it not to. Instead of complaining that things aren't functioning HERE, change it in your game.

>>51721049
>>51721055
Forgot to mention that, like this anon says, i have combined sorcery and spell points.

I've considered altering when and how you choose the metamagics, since right now the additional ones are generally less used, but i haven't done it yet.

My sorcerers have appreciated the points system.

>>51721049
>>51721055
>>51721029
I appreciate that wizards are better because of their versatility, I'm just looking for something to make the sorcerer feel a little better to play. Although I can't for the life of me work out why WoTC expects 4 choices of metamagic, one of which comes way to late to be a factor in how the class plays, to be enough when some of them are compulsory and some of the are just meh. Might just say fuck it and go with spell points+all the metamagics.

Also, was it an oversight that the favoured soul didn't get ritual casting? I mean, thanks to that, favoured soul now has the unenviable position for being the only class capable of learning augruy without a way to ritual cast it. Seems weird.

>Running Lost mines of phandelver
>Druid encouraged Pip from the Stonehill inn to run away from home
>Deciding it was a better story than getting eaten by wolves, Pip stumbled into another plane and is now stuck in the beast lands until he finds his way to another plane.

>>51720975
>Use and enforce the 2-short-2-short-2-long rest cycle and everything works out pretty damned well.

the default is a 2 short rests and then a long rest

bending the entire campaign into NapQuest to make a fucked up character class less fucked is retarded

>>51721045
nope, its supposed to be 2 short rest: 1 long rest

and justifying 2, 1 hour breaks with no interruptions is pretty weird in any case

>>51720976
It's really like 4e?

For the people talking about short rests, I cannot understand DMs that won't give you time for them. Especially when travelling and rolling random encounters. Characters have to rest for 8 hours, and can only travel for 8 hours without going into a forced march. That leaves 8 more hours for meals, foraging, short resting, etc. Even if you're on an enemy location, get your fucking wizard to cast Rope Trick and you're good.

>>51721138
One thing that i worried about, although it hasn't come up for me as of yet, is Shield. Using spell points lets you cast it significantly more efficiently, and i could see someone doing a gimicky favored soul build using shield every single round.

>>51720973
nice reference

and the warlock can't sword if he ever does find Blackrazor so he'd better get used to EBing

>>51721167

And what on God's good earth is wrong with that?

>>51721155
Yes, 2 shorts followed by long. Which is what i said.
6-8 encounters, 2 short rests, 1 long rest.
That typically becomes 2-S-2-S-2-L, with 2 extra potential encounters in there depending on circumstance.

>>51721179
It was just a warning to keep an eye out and see if its making things silly or not. Like i said, my players haven't been doing that, so i don't know how it would turn out. It may be just fine, it may need some tweaking.

Master of Magic can't make you cast a spell that require more than an action to cast, like True Resurrection spell, because you forget how to cast it when the turn ends, am I right? Or there are some shanenigans?

>>51721138
>I appreciate that wizards are better because of their versatility

They are also better in power. Have more spells/day, better access to more powerful spells, and can use class abilities (that are on par with your sorcerous origin) without spending points. By core anyway, I'm not sure what happens when you heap on optional rules.

>>51721159

Why waste a Rope Trick on a short rest? That's the thing, if you can take a rest, you can probably take a long rest.

There genuinely aren't that many situations where multiple short rests are plausible unless you're exploring a dungeon with placid, mindless inhabitants.

Anons? I could really use a hand. Since the Hexblade mentions Blackrazor, I figured I'd try and set up an article for D&D's soul-sucking starbladed sword. As part of that, I wanna include all the stats from across the editions. Only issue is...

Back in 4e, stats for Blackrazor only appeared (to my knowledge) in the "D&D Alumini: Blackrazor Revealed" article for Dragon Magazine #384. And, of course, with the rearranging done to WoTC's website, all those old articles are gone now. And it wasn't included in the magazine.

So, can any anons help an anon get shit done and track down a copy of the 4e writeup? My googlefu is too weak to do it on my own, alas.

>>51721167
While that would be a pretty good trick, if that's the biggest cheese the class can manage then I think I can handle DMing it. Although I would actually be pretty curious to see whether the extra spell efficiency of the point system could lend itself well to more liberal use of counterspell as a sorcerer.
Hm, stone sorcerer with mage slayer and counterspell spam. Time to end magic. Probably still shit, but funny.

>>51721059
>change it in your game.
I'm not the GM. The only thing I can do is plead, and it does nothing.

>>51721199
If your game isn't hitting the pace, change the rest timings. 1 day vs 1 week, 8 hours vs 24 hours, 1 week vs 1 month, as long as you try and get close to the 2-short-2-short-2-long encounter schedule it all works out. Mostly. At least significantly better than not hitting it

Alternatively, add time elements to your campaign. We have X time to get that [item]! We need to rescue the princess! Timmy fell down a well!.

>>51721225
I'm sorry anon, bad DMs happen. If you get the chance to DM yourself, let them see the better path.

Can half-elves be black?

>>51721212
https://dnd.rem.uz/Dragon%20Magazine/351-400/Dragon%20Magazine%20%23384.pdf

I see other people saying it should be in here but I don't see it in there.

>>51721199
>if you can take a rest, you can probably take a long rest
You can only benefit from 1 long rest per 24-hour period. So say you get into the dungeon, freshly rested, have a couple of fights and people get hurt. But it's been less than 6 hours since your last long rest, so you can't take another yet. Will you retreat and wait 18 hours before heading back in? 1 hour is not all that much, relatively.

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>>51720995
If your players haven't seen Seven Samurai (or even in they have) you should include a quest that follows the plot of the movie. Would a "gather hungry samurai" hook for bringing the players together be plausible?

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>>51721212
I know you didn't ask for it, but i figured i'd post the 5e version just so people can see it here.

>>51721229
The problem is that 1) its not organic to most stories or scenarios, 2) the only benefit is to try to prop up warlocks.

Seems... staggeringly pointless and arbitrary.

>At least significantly better than not hitting it

Yet its not clear why contriving your entire campaign simply to please such a gimmicky class will benefit anything.

>We have X time to get that [item]! We need to rescue the princess! Timmy fell down a well!.

Now we care about not loafing off for 2 frikkin hours in the middle of the series of hit and run attacks?

>>51720855
>>51721250
>>51720688
>www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503194-Balance-Question-Extra-Attack-from-multiple-classes
We clearly read very different things from that thread.
>Complaint about how it sucks to take levels in a class and get dead/redundant features.
>A bunch of pedantic bs about how "you're not losing out on a class feature, you have it twice!"
The closest thing to a legitimate response was essentially
>"you shouldn't multiclassing two martials, two scouts, or two casters, and it's a good idea for the game to punish you for trying in order to discourage you from doing much of it.

As I don't share that POV, redundant features are shit.

>>51721246
That seems quite plausible actually, not bad.

Can Raven Queen sentinel and Chainlock Imp in Raven form breed? I want more birdy buddies.

>>51721256
2) the only benefit is to try to prop up warlocks.
Don't forget battlemasters. They really feel like weaker paladins when they don't get their rests.

>>51721266

Begone, days where every combat character must multiclass or fall behind!

>>51721256
The entire game is balanced around that ratio, whether or not its balanced WELL.

You are expected, by design, to have access to Channel Divinity in most encounters once you get 2, you are meant to be able to use multiple Maneuver dice per encounter, you are MEANT to only be able to Rage for some encounters, the benefit of Circle of the Land druids NEED short rests to make them actually have more spell levels.

It is ALL built for that.
Warlocks are just the most obvious.

>>51721212
I swear, it's like people forget the Internet Archive even exists.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100223101723/http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4alum/2010february

Really it's two different takes on Blackrazor as part of a contest, so they're fan submissions. But, hey, feel free to use em regardless.

>>51721156
Eh, in some ways.

Not so much with the shifting.
Burst and AOE effects are not square, they're round.
No marking.
No minions.
Magic items are not a requirement, optional by default.

Abilities scale by level better rather than becoming too weak and getting replaced.

And things are written in a more paragraph form.

>>51721277
I don't expect characters to multiclass to keep up. I just don't want redundant class feature bullshit. Your strawman is horseshit.

If I just wanted "single class keeps up" I could get that from fucking Pathfinder, where multiclass almost always falls behind.

>>51721301
Multiclassing in 5e is intended to allow versatility and options at the expense of mechanical power. It mostly works, although cantrip scaling is bullshit that goes against the idea, and fucks some things up.

>>51721256
Maybe it's because I usually throw hard-hitting encounters at my party, but they usually find themselves having to short rest in order to heal with hit dice. The moon druid and the fighter certainly benefit from it, though. I don't see why it's so contriving to justify a couple of 1 hour stops. Read this: >>51721246

>>51721270
Battlemasters are so universally lauded over champions and EKs that I don't feel the need to prop them up. Seems like its superiority rests on circular logic.

>>51721301
>I don't expect characters to multiclass to keep up.

Yes, you do. Remember? Everyone but the fighter only gets one second attack. So you want to simultaneously shit on nonfighters while stealing from the fighter's unique 11th level ability.

>Your strawman is horseshit.
You're the one who wants to make multiclasses even MORE powerful than they are.

>>51721309
Champion < Eldritch Knight < Battlemaster <<<<< Paladin

>>51721309
Champions are sort of fucked, they are like assassins in that, they appear to be the straight fighting class archetype, but they don't really work out as well despite having fewer options. And they both get kind of almost useful utility that isn't as helpful as they seem to be.

EKs are fine, they just aren't the arcane paladins some people want. They are fighters with defensive spells, not sword and wand.

>>51721293
Common mistake. Magic items aren't optional by default. Marking, feats, and multiclassing are examples of things optional by default.

>>51721306
Yeah, long rest as first resort->short rests are plausible. Under most circumstances, though, breaking into an enemy base, shanking a ton of people, and having the temerity to come back an hour later seems borderline suicidal.

>>51721328
>I'm gonna make up a bunch of bullshit about your wants.

No, what I want is redundant "dead" class features give you something of equivalent value rather than being a dead feature.

>Make MC more powerful!
I want to make MC no longer have dead features, and it would have a side effect of bringing MC closer to SC.

>>51721337
Uh no.

The math in 5e is balanced assuming no magic item bonuses. That's not an error, that's a fact.

>>51721361
>and it would have a side effect of bringing MC closer to SC.

MC is already on par with SC. The only thing you don't get is... third attack except by being a fighter 11! What a tragedy, that single classed fighters have a thing!

>>51721368
Being able to survive without magic items, like in every fucking edition but WotC's, doesn't mean magic items are "optional by default."

>>51721388
I know 4e has pretty good inherent bonuses rule, and I think 3.5 had one as well.

>>51721400
Minimum quality of magic items are expected in the math of both 3e and 4e.

5e does not do that. Ergo not "required".

>>51721361
If you want to see dead features, check out Clerics.

At level 14 they get... Destroy Undead CR3. Some archetypes also rank up Divine Strike, but cantrip based ones get nothing else.

So the one improvement is they can destroy mummies and wights, instead of making them flee.

>>51721368
>be a fighter
>GM doesn't give you a magic weapon
>eat shit for the entire campaign because you can't bypass damage resistance
>"not my fault you didn't pick Paladin :^)"
Nah.

"This class that can do literally nothing else but hit things a lot is SUPPOSED to be completely ineffective at hitting half the enemies in the game" is your next line.

>>51721373
They get class features that do literally nothing, when as a single classes character they would get highly useful features.

But most classes don't give you an alternate feature you can choose to take instead.

That is unfun, and results in people avoiding going further than x levels (4, or 6) to avoid worthless dead features.

The game isn't going to break if characters have another option to replace these powerful features which exist in multiple classes, so that if they hit it as a dead feature (or otherwise decide to trade it out for whatever reason), they aren't stuck with a dead feature.

>>51721454
Some single classes have down levels, why should multi-classing let you entirely bypass that?

>>51721437
>Pedantic arguments
Okay fine, you need 'magic weapon'. You don't need specific qualities of magic item to keep up with the damn math, unlike in 4e (unless they use optional rules that correct the math). That was the point I was making, a point I thought was very clear.

But apparently not.

>>51721465
Multiclassing adds in extra down levels due to the dead features.

But ideally, there would be no down levels at all.

Is it possible to go over 30 AC or is it capped at 30 like all DCs?

>>51721483
Why would DCs be capped?
see: bullshit expertise on perception vs bullshit expertise on stealth

>>51721483
It's possible but extremely difficult and requires magic items your GM will never give you.

Whats a gish?

>>51721437
The difference is in the math. Yes, you are expected, at some point in a non-low magic non-low level game to get a magic weapon, the difference is that it isn't assumed and built into the monster math that it has to
>add damage
>add +hit
or anything else specific.

>>51721491
A racial class of the Gith which use both magic and martial prowess.I forget if it was zerai or yankee.

>>51721492
That's a magic item you are expected to have.

>>51721506
I'm not the other guy, i was just pointing out the difference in how magic items are treated by the system.

>>51721490
Well bladesinger with max INT and DEX already can get 30 easy with Mage Armor/Shield/Haste

If he gets Bracers of Defense/Cloak or Protection/Ring of Protection

>>51721512
>max INT and DEX
>easy

>>51721502
Githzerai and Githyanki. A race that renowned for being suited for classes that melee and magic at the same time also psionics.

>>51721489
PHB says that DC is capped at 30

>>51721520
4ASIs tops

>>51720855
>>51721386
>>>51721250 (You)
>>"you shouldn't multiclassing two martials, two scouts, or two casters, and it's a good idea for the game to punish you for trying in order to discourage you from doing much of it.
>That is actually a sentiment I wanted to get across.
But sometimes you have that cool concept that makes you want features from ranger and paladin. Or ranger and barbarian. Or whatever.

5e doesn't have "hybrid classes" or alternate class features, for you to make a paladin with an animal companion and FE (or whatever) instead of some paladin features.

It doesn't really have any mechanics for selectively trading one class feature for another, even in the limited capacity of themed prebuilt packages like Pathfinder.

Your only option if you want mechanics from multiple classes is multiclassing. And that's not always for a "hybrid party role", sometimes it's because you want a specific combination of features within a party role.

Then you see 5e's mandatory dead features, and you may give up on the whole character you wanted to play.

>>51721539
>you may give up on the whole character you wanted to play.

If you can't make your character concept work with one of the classes that exists already, it's probably not a character concept that belongs in DnD.

Try GURPS instead.

>>51721411
Right.

>>51720855
Gaze of Khirad
Prerequisite: 7th level, the Great Old One patron
You gain the piercing gaze of the blue star Khirad. As an action, you can see through solid objects to a range of 30 feet until the end of the current turn. During that time, you percieve objects as ghostly, transparent images.

Am I misreading this, or is this fucking fantastic for dungeon crawls, and for campaigns with a lot of ambushes and hidden objects like curse of strahd?

>>51721413
To be fair, being able to nuke ALL forms of necromancer minions in one go is decent.

>>51721562
Or Legend, which solved this whole archetype/multiclassing issue like, 5 or 6 years ago.

>>51721569
The GOO invocations were by far the most interesting/flavorful.

>>51721454
>That is unfun

Wow, the poor babies who are strictly superior to single classed characters in EVERY, OTHER, REGARD, don't get to be UNAMBIGUOUSLY superior to single classed characters for a single level of class progression.

What a shame, that multiclass characters are no longer UNDENIABLY superior to single classed characters!

What can we do to fix this and make the game less balanced, more generic, and more of a clusterfuck of 3 fighter/2 monk/3 rogue/dicksbane marauder 2/mayor of Cormyr 3

>>51721581
Legend is a fucking shit show for monster building.

"Build everything as a PC".

No thanks.

>>51721602
Well, I didn't claim it was better in any other regards.

I'm totally not working on a 5e conversion.

>>51721598
>Superior to single classes characters in every regard
Citation needed.

>>51721539
>Then you see 5e's mandatory dead features, and you may give up on the whole character you wanted to play.

Thank fucking God.

>>51721611
Every single min-maxed build is either a multiclass or requires 2-3 feats for a gimmick.

>>51721618
Or being a necromancer. Or just a wizard in general.

>>51721618
>Minmax builds will minmax every way possible!
No shit.

People often multiclass for non minmaxing, flavor reasons, but you can bet they're gonna go out of their way to avoid playing a character the system slaps them in the face over.

>>51721633
>wizard
Fair enough, but that's been an issue of late as well.

>>51721641
The only time you get nothing is if you go from an Extra Attack class, level 5+, to fighter level 5.

>>51721614
And instead say "whelp, my fun flavor build is out. Guess I'll just try this minmax build I found online."

Because that's what people do when that neat idea they had isn't viable. They say fuck it and play something they know will work. And the backlash against flavor is likely to make them double down on optimization.

Then everyone loses.

>>51721641
>but you can bet they're gonna go out of their way to avoid playing a character the system slaps them in the face over.

There is no benefit to appease minmaxers by breaking the rules just to add more ways to break the game. How fucking retarded and pointless can you get?

>>51721437
I just searched for "nonmagical" in the MM, you want to know what is immune to non magical weapons? Liches, demiliches, mummy lords, rakshasas, androsphinxes, empyreans, tarrasques, couatls, and krakens. 8 enemies. I think that's it. Anything else either has immunity to nonmagical weapons that can be bypassed with an adamantine weapon (4 kinds of golem) or silvered weapons (3 or 4 kinds of werebeast), or only has resistance, and a number of those with resistance to nonmagical weapons have that resistance bypassed by silvered weapons. In fact, the common elemental damage types are far more likely to have an enemy be immune to them than a simple nonmagical weapon, unless you exclusively fight liches, demiliches, tarrasques and krakens.

>>51721653
You don't have to get *nothing* in a level for it to be a slap in the face. You just have to get stuck with a feature that *does* nothing.

>>51721658
>Whelp, my minmax build is out. Guess I'll just try a different minmax build.

So to placate optimizers, we should... make multiclass garbage even more optimal? No.

>>51721672
Man, you sure take design choices personally.

Most people don't feel attacked when something isn't 100% in their favor.

>www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503194-Balance-Question-Extra-Attack-from-multiple-classes
I think I feel lumps

>>51721573
Don't get me wrong, Destroy Undead 3 is a nice thing to get upgraded, but having it be the sole feature of a level is pretty damned terrible.

If my War Cleric had 13 Cha i'd have multiclassed out to paladin at 12, instead of going up to 13, even with 7th level spells.

You know how many PHB classes have levels that are dead save for Extra Attack?

One. The fighter.

Extra Attackfag's tirade is SOLELY that he cannot combine Giant Buckets of Feats: The Class with other builds without having *a single dead level*.

That's what this entire minmaxing temper tantrum -- that has lasted days -- is about. That Fighter 5 would be the solitary dead level in his build.

>>51721674
Eh, it's not like having 4+ fighter levels if fighter is not your main class is a minmax-y thing. It'd definitely be a flavor choice.

If I get that other anon right, he only wants the extra attacks to stack with fighters, not every MC combination.

Honestly though, multiattacks and level-scaling cantrips on everyone were a mistake.

>>51721674
Right. If you want something that isn't covered by a single class, you must only care about muh munchkinry.

Grow the fuck up.

But yeah, if I come up with 2 character concepts (those can require specific abilities, despite what some retards who think you can refluff a gnome into a vampire with none of the iconic abilities) that I think would be fun, and the system fights me on it?

I am highly likely to just say "fuck it I'm just going to play this effective thing I've seen a dozen other times. At least it works."

And I've seen many other players get fed up and do the same over the years.

>>51721692
To be fair, yeah, I can imagine a lot of DMs aren't going to be using wights and mummies at that point.

>>51721699
Have you tried refluffing?

What is your concept?

I'd be glad to think about it.

>>51721697
>Eh, it's not like having 4+ fighter levels if fighter is not your main class is a minmax-y thing.

Feats. Of which you get four... ever. Although like a good powergamer, I'm sure he would be a variant human, and thus get five otherwise.

>>51721694
Nah, shithead. I'm not even playing 5e, I'm the GM. If I was playing, I'd have no say over mechanics.

>>51721702
Wights, sure, but why not mummies? They don't make good mob enemies?

>>51721699

Please anon, regale us with how many "flavor builds" supposedly demand Fighter 5+, exactly, that you have seen over the years, and what is so "flavorful" about a multiclassed fighter.

>>51721714
They are a pretty specific creature to have an entire level dedicated to.

>>51721708
>Feats.

Not worth it, compared to what you get in other classes for the same levels imo, unless, again, you are going fighter main anyway, at which point you wouldn't want 5 levels in other classes for your attacks to stack.

>>51721707
No concept. Trying to fix the problem my players complained about in the last 5e campaign, and the reason why they nagged me to go back to Pathfinder where they had so many options they didnt get these dead features.

>>51721454
Hitting level 5 paladin as a 5 fighter/paladin multiclass isn't the same as hitting level 5 as a paladin and not getting extra attack. You got great abilities for the last four levels. You know you'll only get 2nd level spells here. Take it if you want it. The single-classed Champion got just a second fighting style at level 10. You don't deserve any more for multiclassing.

>munchkin-anon putting up with a phone keyboard for this asshat.

>>51721714
Mummies are rather sucky mob enemies. Their on hit effect doesn't trigger til well after the fight, and saving against one mummy's glare saves against all for 24 hrs. One mummy is about all the dread glare you need per day, and one mummy punch is about all you need per character.

But I just mean, I think most DMs will eschew the undead a cleric could otherwise destroy.

>>51721736
>back to Pathfinder
This isn't a mechanical issue, as evidenced by the fact that, as stated, minmaxed builds still use multiclassing.

It's a mindset and feelings issue, which your players need to get over.

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>>51721736
>Pathfinder
>Not having dead features

Man, 80-90% of the options in Pathfinder are fucking traps that end up useless in the end anyway.

>>51721736
There is a distinct design difference in Pathfinder and 5e, your players are still trying to achieve themes and flavor by going for the individual mechanics granted by various classes. They are trying to pick and choose a build your own class.

5e wants you to refluff. You want to be an animal companion paladin? Be a ranger that took an oath. In the game, you are a paladin.

>>51721728

>Not worth it, compared to what you get in other classes for the same levels imo

Ignoring level 5 (which is extra attacks fag's sole beef with the system that has prompted his multiple day tirade, so lets pretend fighter 6 is fighter 5), I don't see what non casting class gives in 4-5 levels that is not so great that a 50% increase in feats, action surge, a martial archetype feature and a couple other things is not worth it.

>>51721539
You can MC dip for features, wait for the system to get more mature with alternate class features, or suck it up and MC more heavily because you're only level 5 once and no other levelup has as big of a power budget.

>>51721751
And yet, you don't have to take any of them to take levels in a class. Every class feature has at least a couple things you can trade it for.

But yeah. I liked the various simplified elements, they would rather avoid the landmines than get stuck with stuff they can't make use of, such as getting the same feature twice and not having the option to trade it out.

And, were I a 5e player rather than GM, I would kindof agree with them. But as a GM I like what 5e brings to the table.

(One of them runs games, but only runs Shadowrun)

>>51720957
Only a fucking terrible GM would not allow a short rest recharge between most standard encounters. Unless you are specifically doing a gauntlet of encounters, there is no way the party is facing that many random encounters at once.

I basically always let Short resters regain whatever they can right before almost every encounter. If I don't, either:
1. The party is specifically trying to "rush" something (mad dash from encounter to encounter, refusing to rest or at least take it easy after a fight, etc. - all on purpose because of in-game time constraints or something similar.)
2. Because they are in a Gauntlet type of scenario, where a new encounter pretty much shows up within minutes of the last, or the party is moving through a dangerous dungeon, where they simply can't afford to just sit down and rest.

Most of the classes relying on short rests clearly intends to get these fairly often. They just didn't want to reuse the old encounter powers, so they called it "short rests" instead.

>>51721765
I believe the specific example that came up last campaign with paladin/ranger was wanting paladin spells/smite with an animal companion, and not wanting a tracking and nature focus. But it's been a while.

>>51721776
Congratulations on not knowing how to DM 5e, always remember
>2-short-2-short-2-long
>6-8 encounters, 2 short rests, 1 long rest

>>51721751
>Man, 80-90% of the options in Pathfinder are fucking traps that end up useless in the end anyway.
Experienced that one first-hand. Some peeps wanted to get a PF game going and I'm like "Hey I haven't been not the DM in a while and I got the PDFs from that bundle, might as well."

I want to play a Paladin, they say "No paladins, no barbarians, no sorcerers!". Fine, then I want to play a dex-based elf fighter and not just people in the group but others not in that group told me that was suicidal due to the crucial feats I'd waste getting dexterity with weapons... So basically my only option to be any good was a brawny fighter with power attack and great cleave and a falchion otherwise I might as well not even play.

>>51721768
Barbarian and Monk scale meh beyond a dip, and rogue doesn't get multi attack anyway.

>>51721790
Hunter's Mark's now him smiting people.

His exploration stuff is divine guidance.

Done.

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>>51721776
>Clear 1 room of a dungeon
>Warlock has blown his 2 spell slot load because that's all he's got for half his existence
>Warlock wants the rest of the party to wait an hour before moving on to the next room

Fuckthat.jpg.I've made short rests 10-20 minutes in my games and believe it or not the universe hasn't imploded yet.

>>51721790
I don't know how good this is, but...

http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/171305

If it's any good, it should give you a point value for all class features, and you could use it as an ACF guidebook, if you don't want to go full point buy classless.

>>51721790
Magic Initiate - Find Familiar
Get yourself a cat or the like.

If you want it to fight, be a Ranger and fluff out your Hunter's Mark as smiting.

Natural Explorer is a divine urging that always lead you on your path.

Favored Enemy - Undead even mimics Smite bonus damage.

>>51721793
>if you don't DM exactly how I like it, its badwrongfun
>regardless of how much the PCs are challenged, regardless of how much fun there is, you didn't adhere to my tastes and thus you are bad and should feel bad

ok

>>51721808
>>51721816
And the paladin spells?

>>51721797
Was it a core only game? Unchained Rogue/Slayer (possibly bounty hunter) does DEX based fencer-fighter adequately.

>>51721798
Hence why as it turns out, munchkin anon is sperging out over genuinely nothing, or at the minimum, claims of "flavor" and "dead levels" are total lies.

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>>51721793
>People actually think is good DM'ing.

>>51721817
You are literally not using the system as intended. It is "wrong" in the sense that it breaks the intended math and balance. Keep having fun, its a good thing, but
>Only a fucking terrible GM would not allow a short rest recharge between most standard encounters
says you are a giant fucking hypocrite anyway.

>>51721826
Which ones? What does he want to be doing with them?
About the only special things are the Smite spells, Elemental Weapon, and the Auras, of which only the auras really are hard to replicate.

>>51721826
Boo-fucking-hoo. You want Paladin with an Animal? Get your DM to change your find steed into one.

You want to make a Paladin-Ranger? You refluff or play the multiclass between to classes with very little synergy in anything.

>>51721814
I'll check it out. If it's got good point costs measurements for class features, ACFs would likely solve the issue by reducing the desire for multiclassing.

>>51721832
>durr why are wizards da bess
>lets sleep bros, i cast magic missile

>>51721831
That's EXACTLY what he's sperging out about.

That (minmaxed) dips are fine and dandy, but there's no real support/benefit for investing more evenly/heavily into leveling two classes.

Now, I don't know/care how much it'd improve the viable character space, but it feels like slightly tweaking things to better support that would be a low investment, overall +EV change.

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>>51721855

>>51721846
>I can't read! I think this is a player having trouble with a build instead of a GM who has several players have trouble with their builds.

>>51721862
>i have no actual input, i just post images

>>51721833
>You are literally not using the system as intended.

Good. The fact that anyone thinks that such a suffocating intrusion into the DMing style of... every 5e game... on the planet... is inherently "breaking" anything is insane, and is proof alone that breaking this 2-2-2 garbage is good for its own sake.

>says you are a giant fucking hypocrite anyway.

Not the guy you were responding to.

>>51721437
Just remove "immunity to nonmagic weapons." It's stupid that a monster immune to a greatsword can be killed by a shiv of charisma. Unless it's a ghost or a demon (where you need silver or holy weapons) most things will get hurt from being hit. I don't mind "immunity to non holy/silver/lightning/etc weapons" but "magic weapons" is such a vast and general type. Do your fists count as magic weapons if you wear magic rings?

>>51721668
>elemental damage is more resisted
But fighter only have acess to physical damage. Casters can adapt or could have adapted if they had not fucked up their spell list.

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>>51721871

>>51721828
>Boo-fucking-hoo. You want Paladin with an Animal? Get your DM to change your find steed into one.
Core only because the DM and some of the players were new.

>>51721872
I only bring up 2-2-2 when people are complaining about rests in one fashion or another. Most often, the specific complaints made are actually solved by getting closer to the recommended encounter/rest structure.

>>51721886
Ignore the quote, I did not pay attention.

>>51721886
Core only is Pathfinder with all the fun stuff stripped out except for wizards and druids and clerics.

>>51721871
To be honest, it's more funny than him responding with more pointless strawman arguments like you're doing.

>>51721857
>That's EXACTLY what he's sperging out about.

That one class in the entire cosmos has dead levels when multiclassing if both are at 5?

>but there's no real support/benefit for investing more evenly/heavily into leveling two classes.

There's no real support/benefit for... fighter 5 + other hitdudes 5. That is the summary of his issue. Literally nothing else, as his dead levels problem only exists for fighter 5.

>>51721029
My Lore Bard seems to disagree, as does the two wizards in the party who constantly bitches about being half as versatile as the dumb bard.

>>51721865
Alright. 5e doesn't do the stuff your players want to do.

Feel free to homebrew the shit out of the game for people who want to play "Builds" and can't live without a multiclass, but people who like the system won't agree. It really sounds like another system might be best. not trying to be an ass but if you want a system that can handle stuff like that, 5e isn't great.

>>51721865
And yet you still can't explain what unique flavor is lost without fighter 5 and only fighter 5.

>>51721901
You'll note he didn't complain about dead levels, he complained about wasted features.

Presumably that also includes double Evasion

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>>51721905
Pls, everyone knows Lore Bard is just another class of Wizard.

The BEST class of Wizard.

>>51721915
Wizard tier chart

SS
Lore Mastery
College of Lore

S
Theurge

A
Illusion
Divination

A-
Everything else

>>51721911

>>51721465
>>51721480
Seems that, yes, it really is about fighter 5 and nothing but fighter 5. In all likelihood, the issue is with the +1 feats of level 4 and 6 being the sandwich around a dead level.

>>51721897
Well, I guess at least 5E doesn't require a splatbook or two to make a game fun for all.

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>>51721929
This is pretty accurate, yeah.

>>51721268
Tiefling raven offspring.

>>51721811
You'd have to adjust the times of hour long spells like armor of agathys, otherwise it'll be a case of
'Okay, I wake up I cast armor of agathys. Now I wait 10 minutes.'

>>51721945
Pathfinder players typically don't use any books other than core( if they use any books at all), and core isn't used for player options so much as rules reference for things like combat.

D20pfsrd and/or Archives of Nethys everything in terms of mechanics is available online, legally, for free.

>>51721187
No, that does seem to be the intention.

Which is good, because it prevents it from just being a super overpowered ability. Wizards are not intended to just be able to pull out something to fit every situation, and the new type can almost do that already - Being able to pick any spell, from any class, and any spell level (that you still have slots for), and AS A WIZARD SPELL, is completely retarded. This little limitation prevents the truly stupid spells from being utilized, which at least keeps the other casters relevant.

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>>51721967
Why? Because it will give them one more spell slot worth of a spell when they desperately need more spell slots anyway?

Lets be real, 2 spell slots until level 10 is pretty awful, letting them squeeze out an extra spell this way isn't going to make the universe end.

>>51721846
>Very little synergy in anything
The multiclass is actually pretty good.

>Horde breaker
+1 attack that can potentially add Improved Divine Smite or crit for a chance to crit smite.
>Colossus slayer
+2d8 a round, typically, since you'll have a PAM reaction attack.
4 levels gives you an ASI and 2 levels of spellcasting, but removes half a level of spellcasting from paladin.
You also get some handy spells like pass without trace.
You then also, if you're the UA ranger, get a possible +2 damage to all your attacks (With horde breaker instead of colossus slayer that's up to 5 attacks per round adding +2 damage), you can get a second fighting style (get both duelling AND defense or GWF and defense) and all the nature stuff it sounds like OP doesn't want.

Of course, other multiclasses like bard or warlock might compete and you need 13 wis and 13 dex on top of 13 cha and 13 strength, but as long as your DM allows multiclassing into UA material...
Well, honestly, that's the catch - does your DM allow you to multiclass into UA material?

>>51721945
>>51721984
But yes, the appeal of Pathfinder (for those who like it) lies in the massive variety of options and near "build your own class" status it has.

Before the glut of options, people would typically combine Pathfinder core with 3e character options.

I have yet to meet anyone who thought Pathfinder was fun without a glut of options.

>>51721237
Yeah, I actually checked that out myself, hoping maybe it was different tot he version I downloaded when I had D&D Insider, but, no, it's actually missing the D&D Alumini article, which is bullshit. I was hoping maybe there's a web-archive or something that'll dig it up, but my network's too shitty to go for it myself.

Thanks for trying to help, though.

>>51721233
Sure, if black humans and/or black elves exist in your setting.

>>51721283
Thanks! Like I said, my network is for shit, hence why I didn't get this posted before you did, so tracking those down was a huge, huge favor to me. Many thanks!

I don't suppose you can also get the 3.5 free web updates of White Plume Mountain to work?

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20051207a

>>51721502
The Githyanki call it a Gish. The Githzerai call it a Zerth. Either way, it's a multiclassed fighter/mage.

>>51721998
Don't forget, the concept only necessitated ranger due to an animal companion, which means it has to be Beast for the example.

>>51721199
>Wizards who wants to sleep after every fucking encounter
Wizards confirmed as being house cats.

>>51722009
Wait, i think i understand
Wizards=House Cats
Dragons= House Cats
Wizards=Dragons
Sorcerers=Retarded offspring of Wizards

>>51721998
>MC into UA?
I would likely allow them to do so if they wanted to, yes.

>>51721967
>Short rest automatically ends any buff effects currently active.

BAM, done.

>>51722014
>I don't want to short rest billy, i cast Mage Armor 4 hours ago.

>Better not short rest, we ate a heroes feast before we went in

Could anyone tell where I can find the Sorceror pdf download? I can´t find it in the mega.

>>51721562
I've actually been considering running a GURPS campaign. I expect my group would like it.

>>51721254
>That fucking writing
Is this made by a German 12 year old? Holy fuck, my head hurts trying to read that.

And USE PUNCTUATION FOR FUCKS SAKE.

>>51722027
>http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/sorcerer

Boy, that was hard.

>>51722035
>eats souls
>tsundere for Whelm Wave
>DOOOOOOOOM

There, saved you from reading it.

>>51722034
But the fact remains that I like 5e on the GM side and would like to run it and have my players also have fun.

Hopefully that classless point breakdown of 5e gives me a good baseline for on the fly ACFs. I'll buy it tomorrow.

>>51721996
They already get more than enough spell slots from having very quick short rests that likely means they'll get ~5 short rests a day or something.

Well, it depends how you pace encounters, but if it's normally
>encounter
>encounter
>short rest
>encounter
>encounter
>short rest
>encounter
>encounter
>long rest

then it'd turn to adding two or three short rests in there.

At level 5, warlocks get 2 level 3 spell slots.
Wizards get 3 level 2 spell slots, 3 level 2 spell slots, 4 level 1 spell slots.

With 4 short rests a day, the wizard gets 3 level 3 spell slots, 4 level 2 spell slots, 4 level 1 spell slots.
The warlock gets 8 level 3 spell slots, not to mention some invocations giving them at-will spells.

Of course, the argument comes down, probably, 'who runs 6 encounters in a day anyway unless you're in a dungeon?' and 'warlocks can't save all their spell slots for the boss fight'.

>>51722017
To be fair, if most people had natural arcane power, they would probably be hopelessly stupid, lazy, and selfish.

>>51722049
To be fair

>>51721254
Is this one of the original edge weapons?

>>51722022
That's too general. There are buffs that last 8 hours or 24 hours or even longer.

>>51722019
>Allowing multiclassing into UA

>>51722006
Eh, still kind of works, but they can just work with the DM or fuck off if they want a pet. Or just become a fucking ranger.
Or if their DM sucks, kill themself.

>>51722004
>I don't suppose you can also get the 3.5 free web updates of White Plume Mountain to work?
Sort of? I mean you can find an archive of the page on the Wayback machine but the conversion itself is in a zip file that isn't saved on the Wayback Machine.
Seriously if there's a dead link and you find no mirrors, just use the Internet Archive yourself.
http://archive.org/web/

>>51722054
Should I not allow multiclassing into UA? Why is that so bad?

>>51722053
It's anime swordonafieid.

>>51722004
99 cents on DriveThruRPG.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/170094/White-Plume-Mountain-Revised-35

>>51722065
Stupidly powerful shit.

Example: Hexblade 1 to get +Cha to hit and damage for paladins.

>>51721254
I want to make a campaign with a Hexblade/Shadow Monk BBEG wielding it. He's just a weeaboo with zero skill who the sword found easy to control.

>>51722065
Ignore that anon. He tells people, every single time, not to allow UA multiclassing because of his raging autism.

In the end, just do what you feel is funnest, my friend.

>>51721254
>Blackrazor devours your soul
>But you gain temporary HP equal to your maximum HP
>And then someone heals you, and you're now alive again because nothing says you need a soul.
>Blackrazor only understands common by default
>Tsundere
>Conflict
What even is a 'conflict'? 'Hey, I saw you're not killing people. Go kill people.' 'No.' 'W-why won't you listen to me senpai'

Also, just, seriously, that stupid temporary HP thing.

At the very least they didn't give it additional damage beyond the +3.

>>51722065
UA has explicitly been called out as being entirely untuned for multiclassing.

>>51722083
Hmm...

I see. Maybe I should be skeptical about allowing UA at all then?

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Looking for cool pics of magic warhammers. Specifically for this weapon:

>Extra 1d8 thunder damage per hit
>If you hit the same creature at least twice on your turn, it must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw or become stunned until the end of your next turn. If you rolled a 20 on any of those attacks, the saving throw DC becomes 15 and the creature is deafened for 1 minute.

>>51722065
There are many, many broken combinations you can do with it.

UA is not balanced with multiclassing in mind. As it stands, almost every single class would benefit from a level in UA ranger or UA hexblade or UA shadow sorcerer or various shit like that. Forge cleric AC stacking shenanigans, too.

I'm not saying to ban it outright, but be very cautious if someone says they want to, make sure that it's for a purpose other than 'I want to abuse its mechanical effects' and that it won't be overpowered. A good rule is to never allow single level dips of the revised ranger because fuck that.

>>51722082
A conflict means the sword can take you over.

>And then someone heals you, and you're now alive again because nothing says you need a soul.

Well, you are dead and require a wish.

Also this Blackrazor iteration is positively conservative compared to its original incarnation, quite possibly the all time most powerful artifact in D&D.

>>51722091
It's fine if you put actual work into it.

Things like the UA Revised Ranger are overly frontloaded, so spread out the features a bit.
Assume that any "level" based feature actually means levels of that specific class/archetype
If something says "spell", assume it says "CLASS spell"

Things of that nature.

>>51721584
Definitely.

I am going to pick up all of those for my GOO Blade lock. TENTACLE MACE, HERE I COME!

>>51722091
Only a bit. There are some things people don't really like like theurgist wizard and the new lore wizard and oathbreaker (which is in the DMG) and kensei some things like that, but most UA is fine. Multiclassing is a lot worse because many UAs are too frontloaded, either to get it playtested faster or because they couldn't be assed to balance it against multiclass abuse.

>>51722101
Yeah, honestly, after seeing that wall of text I thought it'd be some sort of DanD wiki tier shit, but actually it doesn't seem too bad. It doesn't double your damage output like CERTAIN SWORDS DO
But the temporary HP thing seems kind of silly since monsters always tend to have more HP than players.

>>51722102
>>51722109

Gotcha. So where I'm inclined to allow unrestricted multiclassing, I should avoid running most UA content as-is, and rewrite it as homebrew and add it in piecemeal?

It would be nice if they had more polished options.

Thanks for the heads up. UA is now going to be allowed on a case by case basis, and possibly just a starting point for more reasonable homebrew.

Does necrotic energy heal the undead?

IE can I be a Lore Wizard with a posse of undead and just drop Necrotic Fireballs on them to heal them while fucking the enemy into gibbets?

>>51722136
Nope. Only Aura of Vitality heals undead, as far as i'm aware.

>>51722136
stupidly, not in 5e

>>51720953
Also: Sorcadin. Paladin 2/Sorc 11/Whatever you thonk works until 20.

Google it, then start the Smite-Party.

>>51722125
I wouldn't bother adjusting it. You might break it if you don't know what you're doing.

But UA is generally better than homebrew, and DEFINITELY better than DanD wiki stuff.

Even if some of the classes are a bit frontloaded, it's mostly fine as long as you don't then allow people to multiclass to gain the benefits of those frontloaded classes. For example, ranger is frontloaded with having +2 damage on humanoids, advantage on initiative, ignoring difficult terrain, etc etc, but honestly that won't break them at level 1. They might be a bit better than some other level 1s, but they won't be significantly better, and other shit like moon druid would be better at those low levels.
What is broken is a level 12 guy deciding 'okay, my next level of assassin gives me jack shit, so I'm going to take a level of UA ranger to get all those lovely ranger features which has direct synergy with so many things I have.'

>>51722119
The original Blackrazor instantly kills in one hit, and survivors have half their levels drained, which still heals you/gives you temp HP. Its OP, but such a classic that they may as well have kept it OP. Contrast this with 3e's Blackrazor, which is Literally Nothing (TM) (its not even remotely the best Stormbringer Expy in 3e) or 4e's Blackrazor, which is okay but blips out forever shortly after you get it.

>>51722136
No.

>>51721811
Honestly, in a dungeon, I just make sure the rooms aren't using all of the resources of the party.

If the first room made everybody blow their short rest cool downs, then I fucked up. They might blow them over a few easier encounters, and then get to a safe haven inside the dungeon, from where they rest for a while, before elan event forces them to keep moving again.

They usually leave the dungeon dry of everything, but after having used a lot of it on the boss.

Took a while to teach some of my players this, though. They started off burning through their entire spell allowance like crazy in every single encounter. This is fine for a mid level sorcerer using level 1 spells, but not a wizard or warlock who burns through everything in a combat or 2.

>>51722154
It's not even about its power level.

It's that its effect it to give you fucktonnes of HP and make you tanky by.. Eating someone's soul?

You'd think the process isn't 100% efficient, maybe only granting you a fraction of their maximum HP, because blackrazor wants to consume a load of it now or something rather than letting it hang on you like you've got a whole fucking dragon wrapped around you as a meatshield.

So I think it'd be better if they reduced the temporary HP gain and put some other blackrazorey shit on to buff it afterwards.

Can a Lore Wizard/Tempest Cleric multiclass use the Tempest cleric ability to maximize damage on any spell the Lore Wizard changes the damage to "Lightning" for? The entry for Spell Secrets just says "spell slot" and does not specify wizard spells. Likewise, the Channel Divinity for Tempest Clerics just says you can max the damage for any lightning or thunder damage by using your Channel Divinity instead of rolling.

Kinda want to throw Lightning Balls, or Lightning Disintegrates.

Is there anything wrong with playing a character who begins as a wanted criminal? My new Sorcerer killed an anti-mage sent by the Kingdom over and I figure there would be some negative responses.

>>51722175
Honestly, I'd rather see a criminal in my party than a sorcerer, so I wouldn't worry about any negative responses for killing an anti-mage. It's your class choice that's going to wrinkle some noses.

>>51722125
See this?>>51722170
That right there is why you want to keep an eye on UA multiclassing. Not as in not allowing it, but making sure people don't try retarded stunts that it isn't ready for.

>>51722185
Because of the power level, wild mages being stupid or the fact most players demand a fix?

So. Hexblade talks up Blackrazor a lot.

But I shudder to think how many Critical Role fanboys will just use the ripoff of the ripoff from that show instead for their hexlocks...

>>51721882
>but fighters only have access to physical damage
Good thing physical damage immunity is so rare then, hey?

>>51722167
Well, yeah, it is odd that Blackrazor is 100% efficient like that.

I like how Daemon Blades in Realms of Chaos handled it; they turn wounds into instant death (this doesn't mean that you can necessarily _hurt_ every foe), but instead of healing you, it bolsters your strength, which is much more akin to Stormbringer. Its only 33% efficient: for every 3 points of strength drained, one goes to the wielder, one goes to the sword, and one goes to the Chaos Gods.

RoC daemon blades are probably the most kickin' magic swords in any RPG: they were boosted forms of chaos weapons iirc (which are like Elfblades; variable and potentially increasing random list of powers), but also have a daemon inside which can be anything from a pleb all the way up to a greater daemon or a daemon prince, which is itself a fully fledged ascended PC-analog with its own stats etc., and the daemon within the daemon sword can in turn have a daemon sword as well.

Are the 5e legendary games kingdom/warfare rules any good?

Some kingmaker type stuff could make for a fun campaign.

>>51722209
>resistance is nothing bro just hit harder

>>51722250
I don't know of any kingdom rules, do you mean the UA mass combat stuff? It looks very, very good.

Currently I'm debating whether a stand of 10 guys should level as 1 guy or as 10 guys.

>>51720855
>new invocations
that's pretty nice.

>>51722170
Ayep. Totally legal.

>>51722267
Legendary games published a bunch of ebooks for 5e that do mass combat and kingdom building stuff on dtrpg.

Was wondering if they were good enough to merit the purchase.

Are Lathander and Amaunator still the same guy?

There's no mention of the connection in SCAG

>>51722209
Their existence alone shows that 5e is balanced around fighters getting magical items at some point.

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>>51722314
>There are Pokemon who are immune to electric attacks. Their existence alone shows that Pokemon is balanced around Pikachu learning Surf at some point.

>>51722329
Why yes, Pokemon IS balanced around getting more than one type of pokemon.

>>51721958
Pics?

>>51721905
What are your magical secrets ?

>>51722329

So it's balanced around 'Oh, it's a ghost. Time for most of the group to sit out of the fight'? As the Rogue or Barbarian are not doing much better there either.

>>51720953
Swashbuckler/Dragon Sorcerrer.

Use GFB/BB all day long and dash like a madman.

Has anyone got a collection of pdfs from the dms guild to download?

>>51722373
Just gotta be Scrappy anon

I can't wait to throw a flat 48 damage lightning-fireball at an NPC *from a mile away* while he has to make an Int save for half.

>>51720855
I noticed something in the 5egmega tool. The 7th level primeval guardian ability says it has a short rest cooldown but on the actual UA it doesn't have one listed and I can't find anything that says it has one. Is this a mistake or am I not looking hard enough?

>>51720995
>Any suggestions for running a low magic sword & sorcery campaign in feudal Japan
Yes, invite me.

>>51722209
>77 monsters resist or are immune to nonmagical damage
>24 monsters have their resistance/immunity bypassed by silver or adamantine
>aside from poison (100 monters resist/immune) and fire (77), all other damage types are way less resisted
So I guess martials just have to suck it for the remaining 53 creatures, huh?

>>51720995
Sword of the Stranger is an enjoyable movie. It might give you ideas.

>>51720995
Wouldn't that be better in Lot5R?

Or at least change the setting to that. I don't think feudal japan could survive in a place where you can randomly be granted magic powers. Would wreck havoc on the caste system.

>>51722553
>aside from poison (100 monters resist/immune) and fire (77),
Remember that you can take elemental mastery to negate resistances entirely.

>>51722566
I've met hardcore weeaboos who sincerely insist that L5R gets Japan so wrong and is so boring compared to real Japanese culture and real Japanese mythology, that you'd be better off playing any edition of D&D with a Japanese coat of paint than playing L5R if you want to play a feudal Japan game.

I really fucking hope the Mystic take 3 is released next week rather than the barbarian.

>>51722591
>I've met hardcore weeaboos who sincerely insist that L5R gets Japan so wrong

Well, that much is very true. Even L5R fans admit that L5R is more 'I saw half a samurai movie once and remember half of that' than historical.

>>51722591
Right, Lot5R is Fantasy Japan through the lens of someone who knows absolutely shit all about Japan aside from the movie/anime tropes he saw.

Which is fine, unless you really want to go for... authentic fantasy Japan? I mean, I'm just not sure what you'd gain from that.

>>51722427

I don't think puppy power will help here.

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>Whenever an ally deals lightning damage to a creature within 10ft of you, you can use your reaction to redirect part of the energy to another creature within 10ft of you, as long as that creature wasn't already affected by this instance of damage. A new attack roll or saving throw must be made. The new target takes only half of the original damage.

How's this as the property of a magic spear? Is it too powerful? Should the wielder take some damage?

>>51720953
Hexblade Pact Warlock 1/Paladin X.

Video related, it's a Paladin taking a level of Hexblade Warlock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO_3EO-Vd5o

>>51722604
According to these weeaboos, authentic fantasy Japan would be much more fascinating and interesting than L5R's Rokugan.

There's this one faggot that got banned from a L5R channel on IRC because he didn't play games with anyone, he just sat in the OOC channel and went on endless tirades about the various inaccuracies and how L5R would be be much more interesting, exciting, fantastical and novel if it was literally just fantasy-Japan.

It reached a point where he declared even the system fails at emulating Japanese fantasy so bad that he would rather just play D&D set in feudal Japan than try to make L5R adequate for weeaboos.

>>51721256
>the only benefit is to try to prop up warlocks.
I don't have my books with me right now (phone posting) but I can think of at least one other class that benefits from short tests: Wizards, with arcane recovery.
I don't remember specifics, but I know there are other classes that benefit from short rests as well (beyond just health). I think fighter recovers some stuff.

>Starting CoS
>All 5 players show up with Bards
I am already looking forward to having the entire group of players roast Strahd. Not even sure how I am going to play out his reaction to this, either.

>>51722669
Battlemasters recover martial dice
Bannerets recover healing shout
Monks recover ki
I believe sorcerers recover sorc points
Druids recover wild shapes or spells
Clerics and Paladins recover channel divinity charges
I think Bards recover inspiration
Healers recover kit uses

>>51721598
>strictly superior to single classed characters
I hope this is bait

Can Raven Queen raven attack?

>>51721156
Not really, no.

>Going to kick the shit out of a fiend
>Want to ensure it is destroyed or suffers forever due to the chaos it has caused.
>killing these things just makes them respawn in Abyss/Hell

Is there any way in the game that mechanically supports this? Perhaps arrange for a summoning into a Planar Binding spell, then polymorphed into a worm, locked in a secure box and sent to the ethereal plane? Or something. I dunno! It would be nice to get this damn thing dead and forever dead.

>>51722908
You can't put a permanent end to a fiend unless you wish it I think, otherwise the best you can do is bind it

>>51722803
Yes, but it won't do much damage.

>Beak. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1 piercing damage.

>>51722908

for years and years people have been able to designate whether they kill a foe or just render them unconscious at 0 hp anon

>>51722925
I thought you could at least banish them and then go after them in their home plane to permanently end their existence. Might be wrong though.
Or you could just employ something strong enough to destroy souls to kill them.

>>51722971
Yeah, I thought killing things on their home plane was a proper, permanent death.

>>51722065
OP as fuck combinations means its unwise to allow multiclassing with UA. UA is balanced around itself, not others because now you can go Hexbladelock 1/Paladin X and use your charisma for everything.

>>51722971
>>51722979
You are correct. Killing fiends in their homeplane effectively destroys them.

Which one is better overall, /5eg/?

Fighter Scout or Rogue Scout?

3rd level.

With the Folk Hero background, the fighter actually gets 7 skill proficencies, while the Rogue gets 6 (although they gain two more at level 6).

The rogue is more mobile in combat, and has sneak attack, but the fighter is as expected better at consistently dealing out damage.

The rogue doubles it's proficiency bonus for Survival and Nature checks, which is pretty sweet, but the fighter's superiourity die kinda compensate.

Or perhaps I should just go with some kind of Ranger build? I'm not a fan of the class overall though, and casting spells doesn't really fit to the concept.

Race is Human. I'm also rather new to 5e, but played 3.* and PF for ages.

>>51721790
>paladin/ranger was wanting paladin spells/smite with an animal companion, and not wanting a tracking and nature focus.
Find Steed. Magic Initiate for Animal Friendship. Homebrew trade subclasses. There are ways.

>The Hexblade: Hex Warrior

At 1st level, you gain proficiency with medium armor, shields, and martial weapons. In addition, when attacking with a melee weapon that you are proficient with and that lacks the twohanded property, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls.

>Eldritch Invocation: Curse Bringer
Prerequisite: The Hexblade patron, Pact of the Blade feature
You can create a greatsword forged from silver, with black runes etched into its blade, using your Pact of the Blade feature. If you reduce a target cursed by your Hexblade’s Curse to 0 hit points with this sword, you can immediately change the target of the curse to a different creature. This change doesn’t extend the curse’s duration.

When you hit a creature with this weapon, you can expend a spell slot to deal an additional 2d8 slashing damage to the target per spell level, and you can reduce the creature’s speed to 0 feet until the end of your next turn.

I overall like the hexblade and since my pally died I'm otally gonna have a go at a PoB Hexblade but what the fuck were they thinking for Curse Bringer?

>>51723079
They were thinking they don't want to make Hexblade essential multiclassing for Paladins.

>>51722968
>I knock him out with my Fireball

Fuck off.

>>51723106
>not knocking them out with a force damage fireball

>>51723120
>Not knocking him out with a maximised thunder damage fireball

>>51723128
>not knocking him out with a maximized thunder damage fireball from a mile away

>>51723106

Yes, actually, the most likely 0 hp result of being hit by a Fireball is that you'll scream, pass out, and become a horrible freak.

>>51723134
not knocking him out with a maximised thunder damage magic missile with harvest damage.

>>51723106
>knocking out a fiend with a fireball
Good luck.

>>51723181
That's why you convert it to thunder damage, 'tard.

>>51722968
Only in melee. You're arrow can't suddenly stop before it punctures his lung.

>>51723079
I think it's annoying that you don't get to use your class-feature Cha attack/damage rolls with the Curse Bringer becaude it's a two handed weapon

Like what the fuck.

>>51723220
Oh you're right.

>>51723094
Why not just go quarterstaff+shield then?

It still is essential multiclassing, that's why you don't allow it.

>>51723079
>>51723222
The curse bringer is probably the most powerful weapon there, so it's only natural they introduce a possibly MAD option than make everything a boring SAD fest.

>>51723222
Warlocks of Blackrazor cannot use +Cha to hit and damage while wielding Blackrazor.

>>51722968
>>51723106
Melee attacks only anon, no saving throws no ranged, just melee, spell or weapon.

Could I fluff the goo bladelock as instead of a flail being straight up just tentacles?

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Soon my PCs will encounter a village led by a witchdoctor who needs to exorcise spirits from a nearby town. One of the PCs will eat a hallucinagenic spirit mushroom and quest his way through the spirit realm to kill the spirit while the other two PCs tend to his body which is freaking out in the real world.

What challenges (skill checks, puzzles, combat, etc.) can I pit against the PCs in the real world and the PC in the spirit world?

>>51723079
All the other patron also get STR-based weapon with 2d8 damage per spell slot (except archfey who get a bow).

I guess they are balancing off that fact? It's still weird though.

Hitting Bard 14 soon? What are some solid magic secrets reccomendations?


I've heard Simulacrum and Contingency

>>51723279
Fluff with no mechanical benefit is easy to get approved of, relies on the DM m. Just make sure you aren't using it in an ERP game.

Unless that's the plan.

>>51723320

Finger of Death, Disintegate and Divine Word all deserve a looking into

>>51723290
Probably the PC in the spirit world's body is flailing around, athletic checks to grapple him and also to keep him from hitting you.

The body may be muttering what the character says, perception/insight checks to make out what he is trying to convey.

Oh and when combat happens the body is probably going to be reacting the same way. Greatsword swings, maybe even a fireball.

>>51723320
What kind of bard are you playing? Supporting? Damaging? Face? Something in between?

So is Ravenlock now one of the most combat mobile classes.
I mean, 6th level Soul of the Raven "During this time, you gain the benefits of your raven being perched on your shoulder." Which was the following;
>darkvision with a range of 30 feet
>bonus to your passive Wisdom (Perception) score and to Wisdom (Perception) checks. The bonus equals your Charisma modifier.
>can’t be targeted by any attack or other harmful effect.
>can’t take damage, and it is incapacitated.
and a fly speed of 50ft because Raven.

Sure you can only Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Hide, or Search during this but hey, move anywhere you want without fear.

>>51723322
I was planning on use it to go full eldritch abomination, being warped into turning into some far realm creature.
That sounds just as lewd I'm just trying to go full bloodborne.

>>51723370
>not being a Tabaxi Shadow Monk/Ravenlock/Rogue to become the king of mobilityfags

>>51723370
I want to be a ravenlock with the observant feat, and a rogue dip for perception expertise.

>>51723380
>VERY fast cat moving at incredible hihg speeds

>>51723370
You can still take damage. That is only for the raven when it's on your shoulder. Same with being targeted.

Just imagine it's a better wild shape for scouting and spying.

Why are official 5e maps so small?

>>51723361

Utility and Face, basically.

>>51721153
>not having Pip become a werewolf

>>51723406
Just read it again and damn your right, my mistake. Still like you said its a superior scouting wild shape, and probably still handy elsewhere.

>>51723380
Honestly tempting as fuck, i'm thinking what, 7 rouge/6 shadmonk/7 ravenlock; get decent sneak attack die, the teleport, and 4th level slots. Could be fun time.

So what's an appropriate familiar for pact of the raven queen?

A pseudodragon? A Boggle?

>>51723531
A Cat

>>51723479
Plane Shift can be very useful if your party does that stuff, ask your DM how hard in his setting it is to get a metal rod tuned to a plane.

Divine Word is pretty neat.

I personally am a huge fan of Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, but it's more of a safe space/fluff. But you do get 100 servants that look exactly how you wish them too. A very Bard like spell. 100 cat girls with varying shades of blue hair in maid outfits really does add to your character.

>>51723531
A raven. Think about it TWO ravens.

>>51723642
New thread.

>>51722053
It's inspired by stormbringer.

>>51723621

>Have two ravens
>Pluck out one eye
>Be the Odin

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>>51723621
This...is actually a good idea

>>51723656
It looks like he's being held hostage by the ravens and trying to smile at the camera assuring everybody that everything is fine.

>>51723649
>no OP question
>picture is completely unrelated to the UA
>could have easily made a question in regards to the UA
>posts when thread is only on page 5
Fuck anon at least wait until page 9

>>51723531
Go full Odin. Take a second raven.

>>51723222
You can't cast your magic weapon or elemental weapon pact spells on it either.

> rolled 4d6 drop 1 in order
> got 18 12 7 14 10 17
So... Dwarf Paladin..?

>>51723077
anyone?

I was thinking of making an Archfey, blade pact warlock so I can grab the Moon Bow invocation from the UA.

Any tips or ideas?
Never played a warlock in any of the systems and unsure on how to build him.

>>51724151
If you're going Bladelock and not going Hexblade for the CHA base, you'll want high DEX (obviously) with CHA as your other main stat, though DEX should take priority.

Use your bonus action to lay down Hex on a target, focus target with your Moonbow. That's pretty much all there is to it. Maybe multiclass with Rogue for the Sneak Attack advantages you're likely to get over range and to take advantage of your high DEX, or Fighter or something for the archery style.

When you can, pick up Darkness, then cast it on yourself, because although you give yourself disadvantage, because the enemy can't see you, you get advantage, which cancels that and cancels any disadvantage from massive range. Dumb rule, but good for ranged Warlock builds. You can always tack on Devil's Sight too.

>>51724338
Thanks for the input!

That does sound pretty reasonable. Also I'd probably go Hexblade but if I do, I can't take the Moon Bow invocation since it's solely for Archfey pacts.

>>51724426
Yeah, it's a shame the CHA build Hexblade enables wasn't an invocation, but what can you do?

As a non-EB, non-melee Warlock, you're missing out on a lot of things like the SCAG cantrips, EB itself - which is the main Warlock design feature - but you are picking up a few nice things. Capitalise on the invocations that suit your character and multiclass into something with synergy.

>>51724485
Fair point, I'll look around and see what options I might have.
And aye, it did bum me out a bit, but I do like the concept of a bow warlock.

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>curse bringer invocation
>gives the hexblade a greatsword
>hexblades can only use charisma for attack and damage with one handed weapons
>mfw

>>51724640
>not just homebrewing away the 2-handed restriction

>>51724640
Only strong boys are allowed the coolest swords, charm and wit will only get you so far

Does Master of Magic allow casting of spells with casting time higher than 1 round?

>>51724640

And it was completely intentional. If you ask them about it, they basically just tell you complain in the survey.