/osrg/ OSR General - Enchanted Booomarang of Returning Edition

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>>51715139

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>>51715293

>>51715293
>>51715331
ded magazine lol

>>51715139
I tend to make them a bit more common but either 1 use or complicated to use.

>Glass Bottle Demon from Tower Of The Stargazer
>Oxide Tiger aka rust monster digestive gland that can be used to rust stuff
>Brain in a jar from ancient star people that can be consumed for flashbacks and a random psionic ability
>Dagger with multipart blade that does double damage backstab but 1/6 chance of impelling to backstab friends
>Shield that shows the body of whoever is facing it floating dead in a river that gives -1 to opposing moral checks but also reaction rolls if its out

>>51715202

I knew I had made my own version but when I saw the other guys, with the better presentation, that more then one person had done it. Obviously.

Hopefully they work well for you. I see value in both systems desu.

>>51715139
Continuing last thread's theme of a pseudo feat list for classes, what would a rogue's special abilities be?

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>>51715482

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• The Baron's jester is secretly _____
• _____ have been falling from the sky.
• Adventurers one table over just returned from ______
• The town _____ and the gates have been barred!
• A foreign Magic-User was hired by _____ to fix the fēng shuǐ.

Provide at least one more template with any answers.

>>51715660
>a gaudiophage, it needs you to laugh so it can feed
>dead and wounded birdmen of the upper kingdoms
>a fungeon, foam padded safe dungeon themepark
>desires novelty to incorporate in their illusionist magic rituals
>the ill-fated demigod who seeks to avert their fate

The black prowed ships bring ______ to your shores

>>51715660
>The Baron's jester is secretly [the baron's older brother, and rightful owner of the Baron title.]
>[Very small Slimes the size of marbles] have been falling from the sky.
>Adventurers one table over have just returned from [prying a the fangs out of a giant bat.]
>the town [folk have starting growing extra faces and fingers] and the gates have been barred!
>The foreign Magic-User was hired by [the rat catcher] to fix the fēng shuǐ.

• Local archivist found _____ back in storage.
• Last night at the pig festival _____, and the tanner's handsome son is to blame.

>>51715569
You my nigga.

Random question for my OSR game.

Is it bad to make your setting pitch rhyme?

>>51715569
Ok, now I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but is there a mage one?

>>51715660
>The Baron's jester is secretly [one form of the trickster god, and this is what he does when he wants to chill out]

>[Pieces of the sky] have been falling from the sky. [And the holes in the sky reveal that there's something behind it]

>Adventurers one table over just returned from [the final resting place of the negapharao, and they're unwittingly spreading a curse on the whole city]

>The town [is being swallowed from the inside by the rat-king] and the gates have been barred!

>A foreign Magic-User was hired by [the king, cursed with the ability to sense true perfection] to fix the fēng shuǐ [of the entire realm].

>>51716251
Oh, and I was supposed to post another template too. Very well.

• The prince has secretly been dealing with ______, which has now led to _______.

>>51716217
I had to introduce a "Fungal Jungle" the other day.

>>51716325
The prince has secretly been dealing with Fungal Jungle, which has now led to his betrothal to the spore queen.

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>>51714502
>what are some of this threads favorite helmets?

i have to admit i love the weird total impractical helmets

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>>51716217
>Under the Starless Sky and atop the empty bastions of years gone by. Delve deep and fight, do you really think you can outlive the Night?

I shortened it as much as I could and I tried to pick relatively standard words. Anyone have any feedback or feelings on initially hearing it?

>>51715660
>>51715856
>>51715941
>The Baron's jester is secretly [smarter than anyone else at court, and working secretly to promote the well-being of his beloved friend the Baron against the same's own moronic nonsense]
>[Astronomers] have been falling from the sky. [It's a fascinating story, and would be quite a funny situation if it weren't so gruesome when they hit]
>Adventurers one table over just returned from [looting the neighboring town, and are mow fortifying themselves in a castle ruin up in the mountains a league or two away]
>The town [was looted by adventurers] and the gates have been barred!
>A foreign Magic-User was hired by [The Celestial Bureaucracy, via his dreams] to fix the fēng shuǐ.
>The black prowed ships bring [the invasion fleet of the Bleak Elves] to your shores
>Local archivist found [drunk] back in storage.
>Last night at the pig festival [five local girls got pregnant, causing a looming inheritance crisis in the village], and the tanner's handsome son is to blame.

• Something has gone terribly wrong and the beer is full of _____, every last barrel.

By the way, how do I change to old-fashioned captchas? These are increasingly annoying. I'm pretty sure I read there was a way?

>>51716231

_No. I wanted to make one but couldn't think of anything good. That fantasy OSR game is mostly a dropped project at this point, it's getting dusty on the shelf.

>>51716217
rhyming stuff is dope, there was an osr blog doing monsters based on louise bogan's poetry. I forget which one.

>>51717334
Neat. I'd do it a bit different but I'm a wanker.

>Under starless sky atop,
>Through empty bastions, dark and dry
>Delve deep, struggle, fight
>Try as you may to outlive the night

>>51717389
check the expanded setting in the bottom right

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>>51717484
Thank you, I appreciate feedback and will consider how to make it better.

>>51717525
I just read Lovecraft's The Nameless City, so I've got thematic rhyme stuff on my mind.

>that is not dead which can eternal lie
>And with strange aeons even death may die

Its also a really evocative description of an ancient ruined lizardpeople city. Guy had a lot of cool words for old ruins that I'm going to loot for my own games.

>>51717484
>check the expanded setting in the bottom right
The only options I see are
>Disable keybinds
>Don't spoiler images
>Open threads in a new tab
>Thread Watcher
>Use drop-down navigation
Is something fucked about my browser settings?

>>51717594
Wait, shit, nm, I suck. I was looking on the catalog page in another tab like a fucking retard.

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Shamelessly begging here, but If any kind anon has pic related, and would be willing to send a copy to this burner email, it'd be very much appreciated.

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>>51715139
1-3 magic doodads per dungeon. Not necessarily portable or useful.
Most 'traditional' magic items are charge based.

Name Level MUs, 12th Level MUs, and Name Level Dwarves each get a chance to make permanent magic weapons (etc.)
But high-level characters are rare, they don't all do it, and the items aren't magically durable, so...


>>51715660
>The Baron's jester is secretly [the Baron.]
>[Giant spider webs] have been falling from the sky.
>Adventurers one table over just returned from [the bar themed dungeon in the tavern's cellar.]
>The town [has been magically transposed into a foreign city] and the gates have been barred!
>A foreign Magic-User was hired by [the trees] to fix the fēng shuǐ.
>>51715856
>The black prowed ships bring [vengeful Sloth-Men] to your shores
>>51715941
>Local archivist found [a book of Ancient Curses] back in storage.
>Last night at the pig festival [the Baron died of no mere earthly cause], and the tanner's handsome son is to blame.
>>51716325
>The prince has secretly been dealing with [not!Arab Djinn from the Plane of Earth], which has now led to [jihad earthquakes.]
>>51717389
>Something has gone terribly wrong and the beer is full of [vinegar], every last barrel.
• The world-hoping mathematician and fencer worships the God _____
• The Necromancer geases the party's Cleric to retrieve _____

>>51712593
Ayy! How's this?

>>51717659
c >>51676449?

Which system does each class best? I dig DCCs Warrior and LotFP's 'Thief'.

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>>51717659
Dude, I'm fine with you making these posts and all, but you've been asking for months at this point and the pdf is only 3 bucks on drivethrurpg. You probably could've made that money working for an hour instead of posting for months.

>>51717895
>The world-hopping mathematician and fencer worships the God [Arithmetrax of the Direct Path, praying to find the straightest, swiftest routes both for passing between worlds and pushing his blade through his enemies.]
>The Necromancer g[r]eases the party's Cleric to retrieve [the relic fingerbone the latter has concealed with extreme care.]

>>51717895
No dice.

>>51717994
I've only asked three times total over the course of like two weeks. It's a popular book I guess.

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>>51717139
>weird total impractical helmets
Speaking of, were helmets with antlers on them ever a real thing?

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>>51719021
Typically, the reason helmets, armor, and shields were as rounded as possible was to deflect as much of a blow as possible and transfer as little energy into the person under the armor.

This is why maces, warhammers, and similar weapons had surfaces designed to catch on armor and transfer as much energy as possible.

Horns on the helmet would add weight without offering any real protection, as well as making it less likely for a weapon to deflect.

Lastly, in the midst of a battle someone could grab the horns from behind and drag or throw the individual, or hold them still for a split second to get a more accurate shot to their neck with a dagger or similar weapon.

It's also why some warriors would shave their heads so no one could grab them by their hair and slit their throat.

All these things make horned or any other odd helmet unlikely.

All that said, Vikings raiders typically didn't fight stand up battles, and didn't stick around to fight any stiff defense if it materialized. They focused on quick terrifying strikes on poorly defended villages, farms, and monasteries during a very superstitious period in time. Anyone dressed as some sort of beastman attacking in the middle of a night could definitely terrify an opponent and get a quick and easy kill.

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>>51715660
The Baron's jester is secretly [the Baron's mistress.]
[Bloody giblets] have been falling from the sky.
Adventurers one table over just returned from [the distant Space Past.]
The town [is throwing a Gate tournament] and the gates have been barred!
A foreign Magic-User was hired by [an enemy nation] to fix the fēng shuǐ.
The black prowed ships bring [cargo cults] to your shores.
Local archivist found [] back in storage.
Last night at the pig festival [the entire world was destroyed], and the tanner's handsome son is to blame.
The prince has secretly been dealing with [undead fairies], which has now led to [immortality. NOBODY can die].
Something has gone terribly wrong and the beer is full of [barrels], every last barrel.
The world-hoping mathematician and fencer worships the God [of Geometry, Geometron. But he's also being tricked to serve a demon.]
The Necromancer geases the party's Cleric to retrieve [the fairest maiden in all the land.]
• The book of spells is titled, _____
• _____ have been making crop circles to _____
• Orc raiders demand _____

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzuoJVr3IAo

>>51714782
>>51714990
I am also working on Wizard and Rogue versions of that, but the work is going pretty slowly due to my laziness.

https://youtu.be/4zxi3SClJGw

>>51720963
>Rogue before Cleric
The Cleric is at least in the pipes, right?

>>51721447
Perhaps calling them "Wizards" was a bad choice.
I am planning to bundle clerics with magic-users, with minor differences based on origin of their powers.

>>51718845
In that case I've either exaggerated the amount of times you've posted in my head, or someone else is asking about it too. Anyway, keep asking if that's what you want. I'll keep an eye out for a pdf as well.

>>51719495
This anon is not a Celt. He doesn't know that the practical is not what you go into battle with, its the fabulous.

>>51715660
>The Baron's jester is secretly have been falling from the sky

>>51715660
>Adventurers one table over just returned from the town and the gates have been barred!

>>51715941
>Local archivist found back in storage last night at the pig festival, and the tanner's handsome son is to blame
L-lewd!

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>>51715482
Here is an example of my attempt at that sort of thing (pic).
Slap it on top of B/X or LotFP or whatever.
Warning, may contain references to other houserules.

>>51717895
• The Necromancer greases the party's Cleric to retrieve _____

>>51720415
>The book of spells is titled, 'have been making crop circles to Orc raiders demand'

>>51722268
The Necromancer greases the party's Cleric to retrieve his keys from a crack in the wall. Only a properply lubricated person can fit in it, after all.

>>51722378
>>51722268
What's all this grease about?
The arbitrary geas was supposed to be an Underworld and Wilderness Adventure reference.

Anyone got the ACKS book Lairs & Encounters?
Is it worth buying?

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Have any of you actually played/ran any of the more arty adventures? Deep Carbon Observatory, Maze of the Blue Medusa, etc.

They seem like a lot of fun for the GM to read and look at the illustrations, but how are they at the table?

>>51715139
Relatively common for adventurers. I don't like pseudo-Cthulhu "weird" magic items.

>>51724425
Havent played them but if you can present them decently, they seem nice.
Here's a video of some guy playing online with his group through Maze of the Blue Medusa, seems to run smoothly enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZQQFUfZlio&t=450s

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>>51724093
>Anyone got the ACKS book Lairs & Encounters?
No one has that..
>Is it worth buying?
Everyone wants it.

>>51715139
I do rare traditional magic items with the occasional quirky weird shit. I want every magic sword to be Excalibur or at least Caliburn tier and what not.

>>51725651
>I want every magic sword to be Excalibur or at least Caliburn
Aren't those the same sword?

>>51718845
Dude give me like an hour and I'll see if I can buy a copy. But I'm concerned that it'll be watermarked.

>>51725979
Caliburn is Excalibur before Lady of The Lake upgrade

>>51725328
>>51725575

Who is in the right?
Who has better taste?

>>51726443

I think the second guy is more correct by RAW.

I also think RAW conveys the idea that alignment languages are supernatural gifts from the forces of Law and Chaos, granted to allow their champions to identify and communicate securely with each other, hence why you forget them the moment you shift alignment. If you stop being chaotic, old Arioch gets pissed at you and revokes your ability to speak the language of Chaos.

What are some good counter offers a camp of raiders could offer PCs to betray a settlement? Post-Apocalyptic, for clarity.

>>51726780
2nd pick of the loot; after Boss, of course.
But well welllll before the rank-and-file pick it over.

Maybe this is a dumb question, since the whole point of OSR is to ressurect old school d&d.

Are there any OSR games that do spellcasting differently than the pseudo-vancian system?

I really like what I've read out of the OSR stuff so far, but I've always desired a more rules-light/narrativist magic system.

>>51727088
DCC does it different, but maybe that's what you mean when you say "pseudo-vancian".

There's also a book called Wonder & Wickedness which is all about a different magic system. I haven't read it myself so I can't give any more details.

Oh, and there's this very improv-like and randomized magic system in Maze Rats. That game is also very rules-lite so it might be up your alley.

>>51727088
The Black Hack
Heroes & Other Worlds (spells from HP)
Dungeon Crawl Classics

>>51727231
>>51727249

Thanks, I'll check them out.

>>51727088
>since the whole point of OSR is to ressurect old school d&d.

Sure, but it's also to tweak, modify, and alter old D&D in new ways, while trying to keep sight on the things that make old d&d work. So that's a good question.

>>51727385
(I am >>51727088)

Admittedly, I should clarify - it isn't the Vancian style of magic I take issue with, it's the D&D style "You can cast X level Y spells per day" and "here's an entire chapter devoted to exactly what sort of spells you can cast."

I would much rather have some sort of "I want to cast a spell."

"Okay, make an Intelligence Save" or something like that, modified by how powerful the spell is.

>>51727487
>I am >>51727088
I could tell by context; but when needed, a great place to stick that is the name field.
I was just posting that because I happen to like Vancian casting thematically. But alright,
>Here's a mechanical argument:
The point of vancian mechanics is just that spells are a resource, like items etc.
It's a very OSR way to do things because of the resource management subtheme.

You could refluff it in plenty of ways, scrolls per day (MUs 'tie up' the magic until the scroll is used are stingy about passing them out incase they get lost), etc.

Poor rules for memorization/travelling spellbooks can muck up the scarcity, but... budgeting resources is part of Dungeon Delving and Hex Crawling.

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>>51727385

>>51727487
DCC and LotFP both have drawbacks for casting spells (the Summon spell in LotFP is a classic example, since it means a level 1 spell can end the world). I can't remember off the top of my head how Vancian they are.

For what you're saying, you might want to look into Dungeon World. It still has the "you know spells X, Y, and Z" system from D&D, but that led to people creating alternative playbooks that are more in line with other PbtA games:

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/108623/Dungeon-World-Alternative-Playbooks
(the Mage playbook is free and linked here)

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>Raggi will never make that new Referee Book

>>51727088
Beyond The Wall and Wolfpacks And The Winter Snow do more ritual based magic tied to locations. They're probably worth looking at.

Wonder and Wickedness has already been mentioned but it sounds like what you want.

Freebooters On The Frontier has a neat table where you mad libs a bunch of words and those are your spells to interpret.

There was someone's blog that gave lists of words the mages would know and could combine, each level gaining new words and larger vocabularies. I forget who though.

>>51727868
>There was someone's blog that gave lists of words the mages would know and could combine, each level gaining new words and larger vocabularies. I forget who though.

Dude, that sounds AMAZING. If anybody can remember what that is, it'd be awesome.

>>51727845
It's most likely top priority after he's finished his backlog. Veins of the Earth is coming out any month now, and then there's that vagina magic book. Unless Zak finishes his drawings for the amazon viking book, he'll probably get to work on it after those two.

>>51727822
>since it means a level 1 spell can end the world
I thought you could only summon things with HD up to twice your level?

>>51727966
Amazon Viking book?

>>51728027
It's a book about the heavy metal amazons in the north of Zak Smiths campaign. They haven't decided the name of it and Zak isn't finished with the art.

>>51728083
I'm already excited for it.

Northern amazons in corpse paint

>>51728009

Fail your casting save, roll a 20 for form, roll a 10 and get World Under Water. If you're deep underground, it's probably okay, you'll just kill the underdark. If not, look out:

>10. World Under Water
>Instead of summoning a creature,
>a portal was opened to a dimen-
>sion of infinite liquid. Whether this
l>iquid is something mundane like
>water or something more exotic is up to
>the Referee. The sea level will begin to rise
>immediately, worldwide, at a rate of 10' per
>Turn until the water reaches a level 50' higher
>than the caster was when the spell was cast.
>Once it reaches this level, it will drain away at a
>rate of 1d10 feet per day.

>>51728309
Well fuck I misinterpreted that as above the current sea level which is still crazy bad.

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>>51715660
>The Baron's jester is secretly [the Baron's leige's jester].
>The Baron's jester is secretly [the head Vampire].
>The Baron's jester is secretly [a foreign Magic-User who was hired to fix the fēng shuǐ].
>[Dying angels] have been falling from the sky.
>[Artificial satellites] have been falling from the sky.
>Adventurers one table over just returned from [two tables over.]
>Adventurers one table over just returned from [the day after tomorrow.]
>The town [was sealed within a book of spells] and the gates have been barred!
>A foreign Magic-User was hired by [the Highpriest of the God of Misfortune] to fix the fēng shuǐ.
>The black prowed ships bring [wereseals] to your shores
>Local archivist found [dead] back in storage.
>Local archivist found [an apocalyptic prophecy, dated for last week] back in storage.
>Local archivist found [the lich's True Name] back in storage.
>Local archivist found [a book/portal to another world] back in storage.
>Local archivist found [a foreign Magic-User fixing the fēng shuǐ] back in storage.
>The prince has secretly been dealing with [the Cult of FJAFJKLDSKF7JKFDJ], which has now led to [Phase Spiders killing and replacing petty officials].
>The world-hoping mathematician and fencer worships the God [of Dance.]
• The dwarven elder needs _____ to complete his Magnum Opus.

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Found another of the new re-formatted monsters

>>51729673
>The dwarven elder needs [an elf] to complete his Magnum Opus. [How embarrassing.]

>>51715569
>>51722259
>>51722259
Excellent. I love this sort of thing. I hope you guys don't mind if I steal some ideas.

>>51717403
Infinite sadness.

>>51724458
>pseudo-Cthulhu "weird" magic items

is there a list of those somewhere?

The fuck do I do with Fire Giants? Where does it make sense to put them?

>>51731729
Volcanoes and anywhere with geothermal activity and/or portals to the elemental plane of fire.

>>51731729
Anything you do with giants/humanoids.
Anywhere dry.

>>51730786
>Infinite sadness.

What kind of feats would you even give a Wizard?

It would either have to replace their spellcrafting ability entirely, or somehow allow them to do it.

What are some good resources for maps? Besides Dyson's work.

>>51731729
In a 10x10 empty room

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Anyone ever run this?

Is 5e worth a damn?

My players tend to enjoy more character options whilst I enjoy the simplicity of OSR rulesets.

Where can I meet them half way?

>>51731729
>The fuck do I do with Fire Giants?

I'm going to plug my blog:
http://buzzclaw.blogspot.co.nz/2016/07/maztica-bestiary-giants.html

tl;dr dying race of semi-religious marauders in lost cities

>>51732274
I like proficiency bonus, the saves, and advantage/disadvantage. I feel that backgrounds need some polishing.

>>51731806
Well I guess I ought to put all my cards on the table. I'm doing this same thing but more to my tastes-- I'm designing starting abilities so that the players have several choices for neat feat-like things, but can only pick a certain number based on their class (Fighters get 2, Rogues get 3, Wizards get 1). I'm also getting rid of Vancian casting and making each individual spell a skill that you roll for that has its own rules.

Admittedly, the abilities I came up with for wizards are either lame or overpowered. For example I gave them what is basically the Jedi Mind Trick that they can use once per day, which is cool but OP, and also the ability to levitate. I also have the option for a stat-boost in INT which is lame and dumb.

>>51732274
>Is 5e worth a damn?
It's 3e done right, but that's still a far cry from OSR.
>Where can I meet them half way?
OSR. Make and offer them lots of homebrew options.
While you're at it, try and solicit homebrew requests.

>>51732274
Play ACKS if you want actual character building in an OSR game. It has psuedo-feats and everything.

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>>51732321
From what I can tell, BFRPG is my best option for character customization; divided race & class, multiclassing (for elves), and all the extra classes, skills, etc in the supplements.

>>51732125
Both Arneson and Holmes did, as I recall. It's in the dungeons beneath Zenopus' Tower.

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>>51732375
OK.
So.
Disregarding how easy it is to steal stuff.
(Most OSR works with most other OSR, with a little effort)
It is really.
Really.
REALLY.
Easy.
To homebrew new content.
Especially when using top-down design.

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>>51732073
I'll See It When I Believe It has some really cool stuff, basically 2page dungeons that are really polished.

Dungeon Of Signs has really gritty ones I like. Pic related.

So I'm kinda conflicted. I kinda like the OSR philosophy, rulings over rules, and all that shit, but whenever i look at an OSR system I feel like it's basically garbage.

Like they're just so full of dumb bullshit. Why is listen the only thief skill that's a d6 roll instead of a percentile roll and why does every derivative system leave it that way? It's so arbitrary and dumb.

And that's sort of how I feel about every rule. No coherent design philosophy, mindlessly aping the older version of D&D, and all this incoherent arbitrary nonsense.

Also you guys say that the focus should be more on roleplaying but also decry any complexity in plot? Like what am I hearing here?

>>51733587
There are a dozens of systems under the OSR umbrella and I guarantee at least one addresses your concern.

>>51733635
Got any recommendations?

>>51733587
>Why is listen the only thief skill that's a d6 roll instead of a percentile roll
Listen is the only thief skill that outright replaces a non-thief activity (rather than supplementing or insuring a non-thief activity).
And non-thieves use X-in-6 for listening.

>and why does every derivative system leave it that way?
Don't know, don't care. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If I had to guess, 'the people who would care if they saw it' and ' the people who don't play with the thief class' probably have a lot of overlap.
If it matters, you could change it very quickly.

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>>51733587

> Why is listen the only thief skill that's a d6 roll instead of a percentile roll and why does every derivative system leave it that way? It's so arbitrary and dumb.

When I asked Gygax about it on dragonsfoot a while back he said that people listen all the time, so he wanted it to be easy and that people who think his rules are arbitrary and dumb are faggots.

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>>51733798
>people who think his rules are arbitrary and dumb are faggots.
To Gygax's credit, his arbitrary rules and his dumb rules have little overlap.

>>51733659
LotFP solves Thief skills.

>>51733587
>>51733659
LotFP reforms all Thief skills to D6. For the rest I basically recommend that you discard the idea that the rules in a system need to be somehow cohesive and all look the same. (Do you want 3.pf? Because that's how you get 3.pf.) OSR rules are written to solve specific problems that kept coming up in play, and each procedure is therefore adapted to solve its particular problem, not to fit in with the others in a system that has an aesthetic uniformity looking in from outside. That's the coherent (and superior) design philosophy: Do What Works.

>>51733587
>Also you guys say that the focus should be more on roleplaying but also decry any complexity in plot? Like what am I hearing here?
Half of the truth, distorted by your own ideas about how people are "supposed" to play.

What we say is that the focus in play should be on describing your actions, not on just declaring which skill you use to bypass the game with a die roll instead of engaging with it. Acting out your character (which when I run, for instance, is entirely optional) is not what is meant.

As for plot, what we decry isn't complexity (players can sometimes get themselves into absurdly tangled situations entirely on their own) but the existence of a plot at all, as made by you, the referee. Sandbox gaming is the typical way of the OSR, not railroads of playing a bad novel.

So I want to play a necromancer in AD&D and lead an army of zombies into battle.... is this possible?

>>51733873
That explanation about plot helps a lot, thanks.

My main problem with 3.pf had more to do with it having too many shitty rules that would bog down the game (like grappling), and by that same token I'm not really into all the arbitrary stuff in a lot of OSR systems.

I see what you mean by "do what works", but that hardly seems to be the impetus behind a lot of design choices. Like, why in the fuck does petrification and polymorph need its own save? Why would poison and death rays work off the same save?

>>51733957
Yeah, absolutely.
Spell power by level is kinda wonky in early editions because 5th level spells were intended for mass warfare rather than dungeon delving,
but Animate Dead (a 5th level spell) is GREAT at building armies. How many undead you raises each cast is tied to your level,
but there's no limit to how many undead you can control.

>>51734027
We're going to be doing Temple of Elemental Evil... will I get a chance to raise some good zombies if we play through teh whole adventure?

>>51733587
>Also you guys say that the focus should be more on roleplaying but also decry any complexity in plot? Like what am I hearing here?
I think it's less about dislike of complexity and more a dislike of scope. Grogs view Dragonlance's world-saving antics as the start of the slow death of "oldschool" D&D

>>51733989
>Like, why in the fuck does petrification and polymorph need its own save? Why would poison and death rays work off the same save?
That's why I don't use saves but instead use roll-under ability checks.
Alternatively, games like Whitebox use a single save for each class.

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>>51733989
>Like, why in the fuck does petrification and polymorph need its own save?
Fuck if I know.
>Why would poison and death rays work off the same save?
Alright, so here's how the saves work:

>Paralyzation, Poison, or Death Magic _ Save versus getting removed from the fight.
>Rod, Staff, or Wand _ Save versus bound (weakened) magical effects.
>Petrification or Polymorph _ Saves versus incapacitation.
>Breath Weapon _ Save versus undodgeable attacks.
>Spell _ Save versus magical effects.

That list is IN ORDER. If something fits in multiple categories, you use whichever save is listed earlier.
Different classes are better at different saves, but (broadly speaking) characters are better at earlier saves.

I'm fairly new to OSR, how would I go about running Dark Sun with B/X rules? Would this be so much re-inventing of the wheel that I'm better of just playing AD&D?

>>51734653
>Would this be so much re-inventing of the wheel that I'm better of just playing AD&D?
You'd have to re-invent psionics (or spend quite some time converting them), otherwise that riffs wholesale.

>>51734711

There are some Psionics supplements for B/X, one from the Trove-reporting jerkbutts at New Big Dragon Games Unlimited, one called "Psionics v1.0" by Courtney Campbell, and I think there's another one out there, but I'm a little hazy on that.

>>51715139
Any idea where a guy could just find a shit-ton of OSR art without flipping through a bunch of books? Drank google and bing image search dry already

>>51734711
>>51734800
Thanks for the advice. I'll try to hunt these PDFs / books down and give em a look.

>>51734833
Check archives of classic OSR art dump threads.

is there a convenient way to get b/x in print besides POD / buying used

>>51734879

Labyrinth Lord is like 90% that, with a couple of changes.

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>>51734879
There is not.

>>51715660
>[Nooses] have been falling from the sky.
>A foreign Magic-User was hired by [a renowned gambler] to fix the fēng shuǐ.
>A foreign Magic-User was hired by [the barkeeper] to fix the fēng shuǐ.
>Local archivist found [a map to Uglyface Mountain] back in storage.
>Local archivist found [an extra-planar dictionary] back in storage.
>Local archivist found [a (heretical) to-scale model of the world] back in storage.
>Something has gone terribly wrong and the beer is full of [Vegepygmy], every last barrel.
>[Beholder druids] have been making crop circles to [summon extinct monsters.]
>Orc raiders demand [war engineers.]
• OSRTGzine-anon will go _____ threads without a submission.

>>51734833
http://fuckyeahosr.tumblr.com/

>>51734653
>>51734711
>>51734800
Where does this "AD&D psionics aren't compatible with B/X" meme come from? You can literally just drop them them in.

>>51735218
It comes from >>51734711, everyone else played follow-the-leader.
t. No.51734711

>>51735218

I'm one of those guys, and I wouldn't say they're not compatible, I just don't like them.

>>51719495
>the frogs have evolved and learned to use simple weapons

deep_goncern.jpg

>>51725986
You could get a copy and half the folks at the PDF thread or on 7ch's /tg/ scrub it for you.

>>51733798
>people who think his rules are arbitrary and dumb are faggots.

That's our Gary!

H e R o l l s O v e r I n H i s G r a v e E v e r y T i m e Y o u R o l l D i c e F o r S y s t e m s O t h e r T h a n L e j e n d a r y A d v e n t u r e ™

>>51735812
It's Lejendary AdventureS™®© you evil person

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>>51735732
The frogs are the least of your worries.

>>51735838
>AdventureS
It is DEFINITELY just the one.

How do you know whether or not your read up on the RPG system enough so that you're ready to run it?

>>51735913
Gut feeling. Worst case scenario, you wing it a bit more than usual for the first 2-3 sessions.

>>51735855
Abyss Ants is a better Legends card for AD&D monsters since they have a MC sheet (several versions) and they are good.

Get on this

Brown, Timothy B. A New Crystal Sphere. Polyhedron 74, p. 21-24, 31.pdf (8.36MB)

https://www.sendspace.com/file/gsucfe

>>51735913
By trying.

>>51733989
>I see what you mean by "do what works", but that hardly seems to be the impetus behind a lot of design choices. Like, why in the fuck does petrification and polymorph need its own save? Why would poison and death rays work off the same save?
I'm glad you chose that example, as it's one of the clearest examples of Do What Works vs. the 3.pf design mentality.

The principle of saves is this: Poison and Death kill your character, so they should be relatively easy to save against. Petrification and Polymorph are similarly permanent but easier to get rid of, so they should be easy but not as easy. Breath Weapon is dangerous, but it's just HP damage, so fuck it; still, it makes sense that fighters would be better and mages worse at avoiding this than Spells, which is kinda the baseline save, used most often. Finally, the save vs. Wands is easier than Spells so that a wand user can't just walk all over a wizard's limited spell slots and upstage him. It's all about how they work in play and how the rules produce the outcomes you want directly, instead of going through some intermediate layer of simulating physics.

Ask yourself, why *should* saving throws be linked to stats the way Fort, Ref and Will are? Is there any particular reason? It's not a divine mandate, five-category is how it always was until some oik grafted his houserules onto D&D to make it more simulationist. It doesn't work better, the 3.pf save system is an infamous heap of shit, it goes to pieces completely at mid-high levels. It's not some natural associative connection either, mixing the stats in just makes the game play worse.

You just think of it as how saves are supposed to be because you started out with 3.pf and that's how they are there, but that's not a reason, just an explanation.

>>51738501
the 3.pf version is crap due to the math and power creep breaking it. The idea itself is sound.

>>51738548
>The idea itself is sound.
Not really. Stats affecting saves is a bad idea. Organizing stats by method of resistance rather than by severity of potential effect is a bad idea. "Bad" and "good" saves that diverge ever more drastically is a bad idea. The power of the caster affecting spell saves is a TERRIBLE idea, on the level of "I should replace my perfectly functional sphincter with a high-tech robotic asshole".

>>51738501
That's clearly a rationalization made up after the fact.

The main way in which 3.x saves are an improvement is that they clear up a ton of ambiguity. There was so much overlap in the AD&D saves that you didn't know which one to use half the time.

Also, the save vs. spell was so broad and used for so many effects that straight-up ended the fight - it's not like it was only used for weak effects to counteract its difficulty to save against.

>>51738835
>"math and power creep break it"
>"not really, let me instead list bad math and power creep reasons"

>>51738935
>There was so much overlap in the AD&D saves
>that you didn't know which one to use half the time.
c >>51734583

>>51738501
Ask yourself, why *should* saving throws be arbitrarily linked to class and five random categories as they are?

t. roll-under ability check masterrace

>>51738548
Agreed with this. I personally like 4e's spin on it, where you can have high Fortitude, but low Constitution. High Reflex, but low Dexterity.

To take it farther, rather than have just the higher of the stat modifiers be relevant, I combined the two so that way none of the ability scores can really be used as "dump stats" without fucking that particular save. In my particular homebrew, if both modifiers are the same (i.e. positive or negative), then the larger number is used. If one's positive and one's negative, they're added together. This keeps things bounded by the typical +3 to -3 range, which as I like a little more heroic fantasy kind of game tends to work for me.

For example, if Charlie Chucklefuck's Strength is 17 (for a +2) but his Constitution is 15 (a +1), his Fortitude Save would get +2. If they dropped to 7 and 5 (for -1 and -2 respectively), it would instead be at -2. However, if Strength was 17 (+2) but Constitution was 5 (-2), the total save bonus would be +0.

And that's it. A small buff to saves right off the rip that doesn't really end up being much as the game goes on. It helps to give players that extra chance of not completely losing their character to a bad Save vs. Poison out of the gates, but at higher levels a +3 (if you roll really well) to a save you already make at 2+ doesn't really matter as much, imho.

>>51724425
MotBM is too fucking long desu

I know it's a mega dungeon but it's so fucking dense that every room is something - removes a lot of tension and resource management

does the zine still exist? I never even saw issue 1 released

>>51739823
>five random categories
Gives a decent range of being better or worse at things.
>linked to class
Because what you imagine an archetype surviving is part of what you imagine an archetype doing.

You expect high-level fighters to brace their shield against dragon's breath a few times, but a wizard would be toast if not using protective wards.
A fighter can't shrug off a spell, but two dueling wizards can trade spells all day.
Vampire's like to remove people from fights, so Vampire Hunters are good at resisting that.
Yadda yadda yadda.


>>51739823
>roll-under ability check masterrace
Your referee sounds lazy.

>>51739823
>Ask yourself, why *should* saving throws be arbitrarily linked to class and five random categories as they are?
Because when a level 1 fighter and a level 10 cleric explores the Emerald Pit of the Ant-King, I don't think they should have the same chance to resist the spider-vizier's wand of petrification because both of them have an intelligence of 11.

>>51740115
What about stat + 1/2 your level?

In your case the cleric would be rollinh 16 or under, while the fighter would still be 11

>>51740186
But why should a fighter and a cleric, of the same level and ability score, have the same chance of resisting the Evil High Priest's finger of death? Why should a thief and a magic user have the same chance of halving the damage of a dragon's breath?

>>51739897

It came out, but TroveGuy hasn't been around much since.

>>51740012
>You expect high-level fighters to brace their shield against dragon's breath a few times

A shield blocking fire is dumb though.

>>51740443
Yeah, that's why it only halves the damage.

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Sell me race-as-class.
I like it for its simplicity / genre asumptions it sets, but my players will need better arguments than that.

Out of curiosity, how many maps do you make for your campaigns? Do you have a world map? regional map? town map? dungeon map? One for every encounter?

Do you make one for yourself and a different version for your players?

Got wrangled into starting up a game soon and here I am committing the worst of GM offenses, overpreparing, but I still want to do some preparation anyway.

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>>51740858
Do you have more than 7 players? If not that's still one each before they overlap, and even then two people can probably figure out how to make their characters different if they put a full minute of thought into it. Their expressions of creativity and roleplay can develop overtime from there.

If you really have to, get them to roll some random personality traits.

Talking to them beforehand about what your genre assumptions are is probably a good idea too. Same for explaining how simplicity is what the game is going for. If you're not all on a similar enough page about how the game plays you're going to have a bad time.

>>51740858
It's really just a simplification / streamlining of the way base-level OD&D worked. In OD&D's little brown books, each demihuman was effectively restricted to a single class (think how demihumans in AD&D have class restrictions, only you're playing a game with just 3 classes). Dwarves and halflings could only be fighting men, and elves were combination fighting men / magic-users. So Basic comes along and says "why bother with two different tiers with separate race and class, when we can just subsume race into class and end up with the same result?" There's no need to have dwarves stack racial abilities on top of fighting man, when you can just roll them in together (and then gain the ability to easily tweak everything to accommodate the specific circumstance of somebody playing a dwarf). Granted, Basic has one more (non-race-) class that the LBB--thief--but you get where they're coming from.

Now, B/X has a total of 7 classes, including 3 race-as-classes. For a human-centric setting, that's honestly about right. 57% of the classes are human, and 43% are demihuman. If it had a dozen human classes, and 3 racial classes, then it might start looking a bit lopsided.

Anyway, in theory, racial classes make the races more distinct. It's not just class X with pointy ears, infravision and a heightened ability to find secret doors. With split race and class, the races can end up being a bit cosmetic, and your selection may just come down to getting the right bonus to the right attribute. A demihuman racial class sets them apart--again, in theory. In practice, dwarves and halflings are a bit too close to fighters to be particularly distinctive, though elves , at least, stand apart.

>>51739823
You got good answers already, especially
>Because what you imagine an archetype surviving is part of what you imagine an archetype doing.
In other words the categories and class links aren't arbitrary at all, but chosen based on what fits. You don't have to like those choices, but that doesn't make them arbitrary.

I just thought I'd add that the same goes for the number of categories. For instance, I don't think anybody here (or okay, there's one in every thread, but fuck that guy) would criticize you for something like preferring non-lethal types of poisons and so moving Poison to its own category that's harder to save against, or just having significantly different challenges from dragon breath, death rays and petrifying gazes and so making your own categories. IIRC Wolfpacks does this and I've never seen one complaint about that.

>>51740933
>rough world map
>make the region map and town map with the players via Beyond The Wall/Further Afield
>new towns/villages get rough sketches
>generate, steal and make dungeon maps
>quick sketches of encounter maps if necessary

Players have to make their own maps of the dungeon. That shit's fun.

>>51740858
>"I want non-humans to actually feel different and not be Star Trek aliens."

or

>"I'm running the game so deal with it."

>>51740933
>start with a few levels of dungeon map (this is the most important thing, you can start runnin g the game at the gates of a megadungeon and be fine, everything else is less crucial)
>hex region map
>while/after drawing the region map, rough out a sketch map of the continent on unlined paper
>use this for reference when drawing more region maps later
>keep working on dungeon levels
>fuck town map, who needs it (and if you do, use the CSIO)

>>51741125
>"I'm running the game so deal with it."
I sometimes have to question the social intelligence of some people here. "Go to sleep cuz I say so reee"

>>51740186
>What about stat + 1/2 your level?
That puts way too much emphasis on how well you roll for your attributes. 1/2 your level + your attribute *modifier* could work though.

>>51740249
>But why should a fighter and a cleric, of the same level and ability score, have the same chance of resisting the Evil High Priest's finger of death?
Really, your class should directly affect your attributes. Fighters are tougher than thieves, right? So why not just up their Constitutions? Then, instead of rolling different size Hit Dice, everybody would roll the same size, but they'd have different average Constitutions (and thus different Constitution modifiers to apply to their HD rolls) thanks to their classes. This would effectively give the classes different strengths and weaknesses when it comes to saving throws.

>>51730121
is anyone compiling these?

>>51741317
True ANoN™

>>51741121
>>51741221
This is helpful, thank you.

What's CSIO?

>>51741251
Well, if I'm running the game I have final say on what material gets used. If someone doesn't like that then he can run the game instead an do things differently. GMs are scarcer than players and beggars can't be choosers.

>>51741251
I'm not in charge of your sleep, but I am in charge of your game.

Does anyone here actually ran BX D&D by the book? How did it go? What went horribly wrong?
(don't link me to the Fellowship of the Bling, already devoured that)

>>51742165
I did, it went fine. B/X is probably the best version of D&D out there, it has just the right amount of crunch while remaining rules-light.

>>51741008
>Do you have more than 7 players?
Nah but I let them overlap anyway. MU groups ftw!

>>51741059
I get it mechanically and I like it, but I need a clear way to present this to my players kind of like >>51741125 option B

I play with a lots of newbies, usually against the clock. I've gone so far to remove Con and Wis to avoid "why I'm so strong but also about to crumble?" sort of discussion during chargen or play.
I don't mind nerding about our fave game designers' decisions, but I'd rather have a big red button to end race-class arguments. And just play.
Probably, >>51741125 option B

>>51742339
What about the combat sequence? Sounds over complicated to me. Same for encumbrance tracking.
Did you roll everything btb? For example, roll # of enemies encountered, hp of each, lookup the treasure type table, roll coins, gems, jewelry...
Too many tables, imho...

Also, did you hack XP? sounds awfully slow and I don't see the point of not using unified XP tables -- this goes for all the clones aswell.

>>51742367
Just say that the system is supposed to be light and simple, with less of a stress on mechanics, and more of a stress on GM calling the shots. Maybe at some point you might possibly add some more options, but for now, you want to stick with the simplicity of the core stuff. You could also say that shit is taking place in human territory, far away from the homelands of the various demihumans, and with a smaller presence, there is no need for the same variety of options as humans have.

The OSR Paradox:

"Fuck skill systems."
"Ability scores shouldn't be overly important."


>No skill system; roll under Ability check lol.

>>51741273
Your system effectively says that ability score bonuses, class bonuses, saving throws and hit dice need to be rebalanced. If you want to do that, great, but I don't see how it would actually help the game.
If you really do make something though, make sure to post about your progress here.

>>51742744
Rolling under ability scores should only be done when an action can have a win or lose state, but it both isn't easy to roleplay and isn't important enough to warrant an actual ruling. So basically, it's a ruling. If you want to do things that are integral to dungeon crawling like lockpicking and listening without a skill system, it's better to use the 1d6 mechanics from OD&D or make your own.

>>51742968
>to warrant an actual ruling
I meant "to warrant an actual rule".

>>51742744

>Actually using roll under ability checks

No. Roll under ability checks and saves are cancer. Overly reliant on ability scores. Use a universal saving throw number or simply give the task a difficulty with a BONUS to the roll based on stats, not making it reliant on stats.

That way your stats only give you a max +5%, +10% or even +15% improved chance as god intended.

>>51742968

>If you want to do things that are integral to dungeon crawling like lockpicking and listening without a skill system, it's better to use the 1d6 mechanics from OD&D or make your own.

So, a skill system lol. Cause that's LotFPs skill system in a nutshell.

>>51743049
Have you read the OD&D rules? It's a rule. It existed before skill systems did. Every class could use it and had the same chance to succeed.

>>51742519
>I don't see the point of not using unified XP tables

Because a level of Fighter is more valuable than a level of Thief. Unified XP tables hurt weak classes and buff strong ones.

>>51742744

>rolling for unimportant stuff

>>51743122
If there is a chance of failure there absolutely should be a roll.

>>51743176

You could argue that, but even granting "there should be a roll" that doesn't mean you can then jump to "there should be a roll under attribute check.."

>>51743241
I don't do or like attribute checks; I like simple skill systems. The OSR community leans towards hating on them and preferring attribute rolls "for simplicity".

>>51741691
>>51741740
I mean, I was goofing around, but I still think trying to explain it is the best approach. Gotta communicate and all that. And I'm sure you guys would do that as well on the actual table.

>>51743176
Just a chance of failure? Should I roll for when a character tries to tie their shoes?
I get what you mean, but that anon wrote that unimportant stuff shouldn't be rolled for, and you didn't exactly counter his claim.

>>51743300
I don't think I've ever seen rolling under ability scores even being discussed in these threads. But hey, maybe this will be the next thing for people to become anal about and ruin threads over.

>>51743300

I don't know about that, folks around here tend to hate on attribute checks pretty strongly (and with good reason), and mostly prefer rulings to fit the situation, or simple skill systems like LotFP's, rather than the heavier skill systems like the NWP in AD&D or stuff like it.

>>51743329
I think that response was because the questioner wrote "but my players will need better arguments than that". He already had an alright reason, and that should really be enough to at least try the system out.

>>51743023
>Roll under ability checks and saves are cancer.

delet this

>>51743329
>"Race-and-class systems are unbalanced and I prefer the race-as-class paradigm. However, after your 1st level in a racial class you may advance as Cleric, Fighter, or Thief if you wish."

>>51743361
So if a PC attempts some Zorro shit of swinging off a chandelier onto someone's head and there is no general "Acrobatics" skill, what would you do to resolve this feat? Or say you want to search the forest floor for herbs to use in a remedy but there is no "Bushcraft" skill? Do you just allow it? These are obviously learned skills that not everyone can or should be able to do.

I mean it's easy to handwave and allow it by just saying "adventurers should be able to do these things" but that seems lazy.

>>51743446
>So if a PC attempts some Zorro shit of swinging off a chandelier onto someone's head and there is no general "Acrobatics" skill, what would you do to resolve this feat?
Depends on what he's trying to do.

>Or say you want to search the forest floor for herbs to use in a remedy but there is no "Bushcraft" skill? Do you just allow it?
Depends on what herb it is, what the reason for trying to find it is, how rare it is, and how dangerous it should be to search there.

>>51742519
>Same for encumbrance tracking.
Encumbrance isn't complicated.

Weight carried almost never changes except for:
• using consumables
• dropping gear (usually when over-encumbered)
• picking up treasure

Before the session, calculate an record "0 / [encumbrance limit - gear]"
[encumbrance limit - gear] occasionally changes (almost always increasing as you lose gear), But usually only the 0 (how many coins you've picked up) changes.
If you pick up too much treasure, you get encumbered.

>>51743510
>Depends on what he's trying to do.
>"PC attempts some Zorro shit of swinging off a chandelier onto someone's head"

Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

>>51743607
That that Anon, but I read that as
>PC attempts some Zorro shit like swinging off a chandelier onto someone's head
the first two times I saw it.

>>51743607
Is he trying to attack the person? Pin the person? Pull a prank on the person? Using the person to get up to a higher point?

If you were DMing a game and one player goes "I swing on the chandelier onto someone's head!" out of nowhere, you would have no idea what he's trying to accomplish.

>>51743660
That is what it says.

>>51743674
You absolutely would through context, the player's personality and the sort of character they are playing as. Quit playing dumb.

>>51743674
They're clearly trying to knock someone down.

>>51743721
All of those different situations require different rolls or no roll at all. You can't ask me "what would you do" if you don't give me more information.

>>51743752
Okay. Does the game have rules for pushing or knocking an enemy over? Perhaps grappling rules? Then use that and potentially give the player a bit of a bonus on his roll.

Wow. Okay so

>ask for description of action
>factor in equipment, location, difficulty and other context
>cool, you've got a good run off and you're only wearing leather armour so make an attack at -3

and you're done. Make the ruling and move on with your lives.

FWIW I don't mind roll under ability checks either, they give players more things to feel like their stats do between +1,+2,+3.

>>51743868
Sweet, an actual answer!

>>51743694
It says "of", I read it as "like"

I personally like Skills. They add variety to standard archetypes.

I've adopted one based off LotFP (slightly expanded) that uses a d12. All start with a 2-in-12 chance adjusted by attribute modifiers (no lower than a 1-in-12).

So a Fighter with a high Dex is gonna naturally be slightly better at sneaking or sleight of hand while a Wizard with a high Cha might be able to persuade or lie to folks better.

Works for my table.

>>51744052
Neat. Anything specific about why you used a d12?

>>51741466
>What's CSIO?
The City-State of the Invincible Overlord, a truly ancient but also truly brilliant D&D supplement, perhaps the best of all time depending on your playing style.

>>51744125
>https://www.docdroid.net/Mq1ENYg/lotfp-d12-skillset.pdf.html

1. Cause LotFP uses a d6 and I thought a d12 was a fair way to be able to add modifiers (and give PCs the ability to have a skill chance above 16.6%) without stepping on the Specialist's toes as the "skill dude".

2. The poor d12 never gets used.

>>51744196
The system is still a little wonky though. I wonder if there's an elegant way to change the open doors and backstab skills to d12 as well.

>>51744405
Runs pretty smooth at my table.

If you wanted, for Open Doors just add 2 points per modifier using a d12. It seems more obtuse to me than just using a d6 tho, as it's a non increasing skill (always seemed dumb to me that you can 'get better' at kicking open a stuck door.)

Same for Sneak Attack multipliers: anything above x6 damage seems overkill. Easier to list it on the sheet visually as a d6. (It isn't a rolled skill anyhow).

>>51744405
For backstab you could just add damage every other pip. Its getting a bit girbbly, but would work I think.

I'd also personally not be opposed to people learning how to smash open doors better, ie figuring out where to brace, just knocking the handle off and reaching through, where hinges in walls are, stuff like that.

>>51744520
>opendoormind

>>51744580

I'd do 0.5x per pip, but then I'm comfortable calculating 2.5x damage in my head at the table.

File: shrike.giant.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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Bomp bomp

>>51744720
Is the Platonic Form of AD&D™ aligned with the Sphere of Chaos?

So how do you guys do your game worlds? Do you design whole things from scratch, do you mostly use published stuff, or do you just have a few ideas and throw your players in developing as you go?

I was thinking of using a combination of the Perilous Wilds world creation stuff to make the gist of the known world and the Beyond The Wall village creation method to make the starting area, then flesh it out as needed while the players progress.

>>51744935

I created a few basic ideas like cosmology and races, but I haven't been inspired enough to make anything else that's good

>tfw can't worldbuild as well as your favorite bloggers

>>51744974
I wish there were more good resources on Worldbuilding really. It can be daunting when you take it seriously for the first time.

Everybody has at least 1 or 2 good ideas in them to make a kickass setting, it's trying to keep the good stuff at the forefront while fleshing out a bunch of generic shit that nonetheless has to be there that use to get me.

>>51744791
I dunno. Do you think the TSR core font of 2E is Palatino, Zapf Calligraphic 801, or Book Antiqua?

>>51744935
I honestly wing it as my PCs hexcrawl.

>>51744935
I tend to be extremely critical of my own worldbuilding, so I mostly just run published setting and modules. The campaign world in my game is basically just 17th century earth, unless I want to run some other setting in which case the PCs get teleported there or something.

There's a section in Broodmother Sky Fortress about how to make a simple campaign world. Those other world creation things seem good too. I think that I have a better time "accepting" how a world looks like when it's randomized rather than when I come up with everything myself. It's easier to just fill in the blanks.

Is Maze of the Blue Medusa in the trove? Don't see it. Sorry about the gratuitious levels of spoonfeeding this is asking for.

>>51745517
Supplements, adventures.

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>>51745561
Shit, thanks. Missed it completely.

>>51733587
>decry any complexity in plot? Like what am I hearing here?

Nothing in particular stops you from writing up some epic quest for your group and playing it out with an OSR system (aside from your players, who will blow your novel to smithereens).

I would argue that most OSR players do not despise plot; they despise playing through a story written by the GM (which is the implied default mode of probably 80% of the commercial RPG's out there).

Plot is awesome, but I prefer to let it develop out of player choices and the emergent properties of the rules rather than trying to write it out ahead of time.

I'd also argue that fragile, randomly generated characters can actually improve roleplay a bit, as players can imagine a fictional character who develops through play instead of an avatar for themselves.

TL;DR, try it before you complain.

Question for the thread:

What are some interesting incentive structures you've seen in tabletop RPG's, old school or otherwise?

It seems to me that one of the unique qualities of OD&D and OSR is that gold for XP incentivizes the sort of play that fits the theme of the game (clever rogues robbing treasure).

Whereas something like Vampire the Masquerade sort of requires a group of players who already want to play vampires struggling with their identity (for example, my high school group tried it and pretty much went straight to playing hyper violent murderhobos with magic powers).

Another way to ask the question--what in-game rewards make adults want to play pretend even though it's silly and time consuming?

>>51746205
>Another way to ask the question--what in-game rewards make adults want to play pretend even though it's silly and time consuming?

Because it's
>Inherently social
>Unlimited content
>Do anything (not literally, but not prescripted content like a game)
>Cheap or free
>Fantastical escapes from reality

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>>51740443
No, it's good.

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>>51733587
>Why is listen the only thief skill that's a d6 roll instead of a percentile roll and why does every derivative system leave it that way?

Because fools have lost sight of True AD&D™.

>>51744720
Where are these compiled?

>>51746205
>what in-game rewards make adults want to play pretend even though it's silly and time consuming?
https://youtu.be/RwKztsXquoM?t=3m20s

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>>51746205
Depends on the setting. Few of my players really desire money as a motivator. I've been running a post-apocalyptic game and the offer of a homebase in a main town and some knick-nacks are enough to motivate the initial campaign. Now I'm simply feeding off what they've expressed desire in:

One wants ranking in a 'gang' from the city.
One just wants to fuck shit up and become nefarious. Seriously, murdering is his passion.
One is jealous of her mutated companions and will do about anything to get mutations herself.
One desires old-world artifacts. You know, grenades, artifacts, armor etc.
One wants to climb from the bottom of the rung to become some kind of Aunty Entity.
And the last is just a bumbling half-child/potato bug who enjoys the journey.

Basically, run a session, scope out what your players express interest in and leave seeds for those things to become realities.

So hypothetically, if you had to use any of the games in our Trove to introduce half a dozen kids ages 12 to 15 into the hobby the OSR way, which would you use?

Did Chainmail use a grid like D&D usually does, or did it use measurements like most contemporary wargames usually do?

>>51747705
I haven't played Chainmail in years but the guys I played with used minis and measuring tape.

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>>51747696
LotFP, if you're choosing to play by the book. And here is why:
- Encumbrance System is easy peasy, like a videogame.
- Skill System is neat, simple and understandable.
- Every class has a defined role. Fighter Dude, Magic Dude, Healer Dude, Skillz Dude, Fighter-Wizard Dude, Tank Dude and Sneaky Ranger dude.
- If you already understand D&D Basic, there is very little else you need to know.
Throw in some Critical Hit tables to make them feel like badasses when they nat 20.

If you want something where you can wave off a bunch of rules like encumbrance or class restrictions etc then BFRPG is the fucking shit. You could buy a 6 person group a rulebook each for under $30 total.

Now, if the kinds are kind of retarded, I'd use The Black Hack.

>>51747696

Beyond the Wall.

>>51747705
Almost everything TSR made used measurements.

>>51747788
The kids are fairly smart I was gonna go B/X because that's what I first played as a kid.

But LotFP seems like a good choice, the only thing that deters me from that as a choice is the inherent Grimdark and Edge baked into it.

>>51747855
>the inherent Grimdark and Edge baked into it.
Play that up as comedic, just don't use audacity as a crutch.

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>>51747855
All in the art, modules and a few spells, amigo.

I've ran light-hearted, traditional D&D games with it. You know, like this picture. And you'd never know about LotFPs 'edge'.

>>51747909
>>51747875
I'll just avoid letting them take summon so they don't kill the world.

Thanks, gents.

>>51747705
>Did Chainmail use a grid like D&D usually does
Not sure there were rules for using a grid in any TSR edition? I remember that as being a fairly new thing in 3E, giving templates for bursts, cones and stuff showing covered squares instead of just giving a radius.

Either way, Chainmail definitely uses measuring, it's a miniatures wargame. I don't think there's a single word about grids in it.

>>51748176
>Not sure there were rules for using a grid in any TSR edition?
Combat and Tactics used them.

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Legend of Zelda classes for LotFP.

>>51748199
I should've known.

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>>51748406
I shit you fucking not, it has you run different parts of the grid at different scales.

>>51748806
You don't have to use Combined, it just makes it so you don't need a giant table or to deal with blast radii that come to fractions of squares.

>>51748327
Will you marry me?

>>51748806
I can't help but wonder what the train of thought behind that is.

Like, there is zero logic in that. At all. No one but some hackjob intentionally trying to over-complicate a simple concept would ever dream of something so idiotic.

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>>51748902
>No one but some hackjob intentionally trying to over-complicate a simple concept would ever dream of something so idiotic.

Well this is the OSR thread...

>>51748902
>I can't help but wonder what the train of thought behind that is.
Long range fireballs, and other things with blast radii smaller than 5 yards but bigger than 5 feet. Missile Scale is 15 feet to the square, Melee Scale is 5 feet to the square.

>>51747855
>>51747788
How's it compare to B/X or ACKs?

>>51749089
Its basically a streamlined B/X with a simple d6 skill set tacked on.
The "thief" (specialist) is better, because you can create a skilled character outside of larceny.
It removed weapon restrictions (very good) and gives Clerics a spell at lv. 1 (also very good).
Only the fighter has a growing AB now, which makes his role a bit less 'meh'.
Unarmored AC is 12.

It is, however, geared a bit more towards low fighting encounter adventures and makes getting HP back a tad more trialing.

Never played ACKs, so I dunno. LotFP with some houserules and supplements is probably my favorite OSR system to run.

>>51734583
I fail to see why these saving categories are so ambiguous. They literally say what they save against. Now, the distinction between rod/staff/wand and spells is almost entirely redundant, given that it's usually the case that the prior is a save+2 vs item spells.

>>51747909
What Monster Books do you use and how do you go about converting AC?

>>51750886
>almost entirely redundant, [...] it's usually [...] a save+2 vs item spells.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The spell save has the lowest precedence, while the magic item save comes before everything but death.
Still not a good enough reason for a separate save, but the precedence is often relevant.

>>51747909
I love that man's art. Erol Otus is great too.

Also, whoever's posting the Amano stuff, you're doing god's work.

>>51750980
Like, I think sometimes the progression for the staves/rods/dildos save is instead like a +3, but serious, they should have just put somewhere in the magic items section that saves for those items are at +2.

>>51750977
A ton of my LotFP experience has been just running the "World of the Lost" hexcrawl. I really cannot recommend it enough. That has taken up a few months of my time, but before that, I made some random dungeons just to get a feel for it and I really liked the S&W bestiary because it listed AC as Descending and Ascending.

S&W has a base AC of 10, not 12. So I just add 2 to most creatures, if I feel like it. The game is so deadly sometimes that I just tend to keep it at S&W values and give my players a chance to whoop ass.

>>51751043
I can't think of any Save-as-Rod "Breath Weapons" off-hand, but Save-as-Rod "Petrification/Polymorph" reverting to Save-as-Petrification almost always lowers your odds of success.

>>51751138
Dude, any spells cast from wands use the rods/staves/wands save.

Petrifaction/Polymorph is for the monster abilities.
Paralyze/Poison/Deathray are also all monster effects.
Breath weapons are monster effects.
Spells save is for magic cast by a being, regardless of type.
Rods/staves/wands is for any spells cast from those devices.

It's not hard to grok.

>>51749387
Hmm it's relation to B/X makes me question how easy it would be to try and convert some of the crazy immortal shit from Mentzer.

I'm going to explore this further

>>51748902
What's hilarious is that most minis games already scale back the ranged weapons, to get this effect. They just don't tell you that the ground scale is fucked.

>>51747696
Into the Odd. It's all about growth and development happening in-game, it knocks them out easily, but less likely to kill them, and it's mechanically incredibly simple.

I want to play Into the Odd in a more post-apoc setting.
Does everyone know a nifty and catchy term for ancient technology to replace arcana?

>>51753848
Oddities
Leftovers
Artifacts
Numenera

>>51753848
Archetech
Lostech
Ghostech

>>51749387
>Only the fighter has a growing AB now
>Unarmored AC is 12.
Can somebody explain to me why, in a game that stresses horror, people are considerably harder to hit, resulting in less immediate danger from attacks? Why make it take significantly longer to kill things?

>>51754386
Cause most stuff will be save or die, or no save at all.

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>>51754386
Raggi: "The combination of Fighters getting +2 to hit to start, 0-levelers getting no bonus, and other classes in between, just felt like it had a lot of impact with base Armor 12. Didn't go any deeper than that."

>http://test.lotfp.com/RPG/discussion/topic/625/base-ac-question/

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What do you think of OSR products which take D&D and place it in a new genera, with rule changes to match?

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>>51754386
A non-fighter without any negative or positive ability score bonuses will hit an AC12 on a roll of 11 or better, which makes it a 50% chance. This is a pretty good starting point, design-wise. Personally I like it to be lower though, for both PCs and NPCs. I really dislike fights where everyone keeps failing their rolls.
>pic related, me before and after an encounter.

>>51754587
I think they're great. I really like the idea of using OD&D as a framework and then change a bunch of stuff to make it fit your own homebrew world. The later editions seem to be a bit harder to do that with, since D&D started to become more of a "style" that people wanted to use.

Also what are those books and where can I find out more about them?

>>51754697
Two unreleased games by this guy

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/studiodenmark

Also on drivethrurpg.


I wish someone would scan the extra adventures

>>51754536
That picture annoys me. Stop molesting Scotland Raggi.

Does anyone have that Into the Odd article to run ASE Wizards?

>>51754632
>A non-fighter without any negative or positive ability score bonuses will hit an AC12 on a roll of 11 or better, which makes it a 50% chance. This is a pretty good starting point, design-wise.
Except that everybody else is harder to hit than that. In B/X, a name-level thief or cleric has to roll an 11 or over to hit a guy in *plate mail*, the same chance they'd have to hit an unarmored guy in LotFP. Against plate mail, they'd have to roll a 17 or over in LotFP. So that's a 50% to hit in B/X and a 20% in LotFP, meaning that it takes 2 and 1/2 times as long to dish out the same damage. That's pretty fucked up when you consider how durable 9 HD monsters and characters are.

>>51753848
Doodad

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>>51733587
The 3rd party White Box Heroes supplement for Swords & Wizardry White Box has a thief that uses a d20 for everything (see pic). Castles & Crusades uses the d20 mechanic for everything, though you could argue that doesn't count because that mechanic is imported from 3e. As has been pointed out, LotFP uses a d6 skill system.

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>>51733659
>Got any recommendations?
Don't feel compelled to use all the rules of a particular game. You can import something from another game, or homebrew your own thief skill system (pic related).

Which OSR systems have the crunchiest combat systems? Something with enough options to make combat more tactical while still being OSR-fast.

>>51756323
DCC

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Has anyone combined LotFP with the Chainmail combat rules?

I'v been thinking about it and how to balance removing the weapon and armour restriction of chainmail. Even more fiddly seems the attack advancement, multiple attacks/heroic attacks instead of a single, more accurate attack.
Not exactly sure where to begin I'd like a bit of advice if there is any.

>>51756323
Off-hand, I would guess DCC has the most rules for varied combat?
If your referee is quick to make rulings, any system fits your bill.

>>51756416
>Not exactly sure where to begin I'd like a bit of advice if there is any.
Start with as few changes as possible. Then playtest.
Simulate fights until you know where things feel weird.
Add or tweak a rule. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

>>51754587
Sometimes it works. Usually it doesn't.

>>51755955
I'm talking about level 1 non-fighters, not name-level non-fighters. And I thought you had a problem with the PCs being hard to hit, not the monsters. Since you correctly stated that LotFP stresses horror, it makes sense that it should be hard for non-fighter PCs to have trouble attacking enemies.

>>51757508
>I'm talking about level 1 non-fighters, not name-level non-fighters.
At level 1, the systems aren't that different.* They're basically just a point apart. At that point, being hard to hit is fine, because damage relative to hit points is high. It only takes a blow or two to take somebody down. It's when you get to higher levels with higher hit points that you need people to hit more often if you don't want combat to drag on forever.

I guess my point is that if make it so that most characters don't get better at hitting, ACs should be significantly reduced, not increased (or THAC0s should be better).

>And I thought you had a problem with the PCs being hard to hit, not the monsters.
I was using monsters generically to refer to enemies in general, but really it seems like combat should be deadly all around, unless the creature you're fighting has exceptional statistics (AC outside the normal range, a ridiculous number of hit points, etc.).

*Though that extra point can make a difference when you're pushing limits of AC. A halfling in plate mail with a shield has an AC of 21.

>>51758222
This is why the other 2 combat focused classes (Elf and Dwarf) have the Press options. And why firearms reduce enemy AC.

It's a job niche thing. Those dudes fight. Fighters fight hardest. Wizards and Clerics spellcast. Specialists are skill monkeys who have a potential to sneak attack for wicked damage.

I've been running LotFP for a while now and combat has never had the tendency to drag. Then again, PCs rarely live past level 3. I also removed the whole "minor weapons have a -2 to hit an A.C. of 15+."

So has someone done the necessary math and translated Chainmail combat to AC or are the AC systems in OSR games simply different?

>>51759286
At least one person converted the M2M table to d20.
Do a few searches on fireden, I guess? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Really though, you should use the 2d6 outright or not use M2M.

>>51754587
I'm a fan of it(Hideouts & Hoodlums and Colonial Troopers are two of my favorite OSR games), in fact I was going to do one of those for an RPG contest on Something Awful, but had to drop out due to a combination of RL issues and having a hard time finding my muse when it came to mechanics

>>51756323
DCC, ACKS, and Fantastic Heroes & Witchery all come to mind, probably AS&SH and Microlite74(with all the optional stuff being used) as well

>>51717525
Yours was already better than his, just fyi.

>>51756323
Torchbearer. Not OSR, but thematically the same.

>>51760227
MouseGuard is better

Could any of you guys link that one animated music video that looks straight out of a Heavy Metal Carcosa-like campaign? It's been posted in these generals a couple of times.

>>51761187
youtube.com/watch?v=7PvJ1zBJ-us

>>51761213
I like that one too, but it's not the one I was looking for. Thanks anyway though.

>>51761187

Probably this one by High On Fire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZlgBRokTCg

But someone also linked this one, which might fit too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yetRJ9aAyvc

>>51761418
It was the first one! Thanks anon.
The second video is great too, I hadn't seen it before.

>>51759286
The Chainmail Man to Man system conversion is in the Greyhawk Supplement book, also in AD&D DMG I believe. The adjustments anyway.

Did anything ever come of Savage World of Krul? What game was it supposed to be played with? Was there ever gonna be published material?

>tfw have to save up your big OC post for next thread because this one is too close to autosage, but it's just far enough away that you're bored

so what new in the osr world? or atleast something cool to read

>>51765928
>>51765934
>>51765946
>>51765958
>>51765969
>>51765982
>>51765994
>>51766014
these are some nice maps, where are they from?

>>51766987
Planescape

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>>51766987
The Land of Two-Axis Alignment

>>51767013
I meant a specific book(or books), I know they're from Planescape

>>51766987
If you would take a look at the bottom right corner of >>51765928,
you will see that these are actual maps from actual box-sets that TSR actually sold for actual money.

"Lazz", the map guy for Planescape, has stuck his name on every map.

>>51767098
Here's every Planescape fold-out alongside a product number:
>http://www.poisonpie.com/words/others/collect/planescape/text/planescape_posters.html

>>51760227

Combat is what makes me not play Torchbearer. I love everything about the game, except the conflict resolution mechanics. It's too damn vague and nebulous.

>>51767405
>>51767405
new thread