When and why have tabletop RPGs started to take a downturn?

>>51712020
[Post that will obviously set everyone off.]
Isn't 5e gaining ground on players new and old?
[/post]

Tabletop RPGs, and tabletop games in general, are in the middle of a renaissance. There are more games and more players in the hobby now than there ever have been before.

If you don't think we're living in a golden age you're kidding yourself.

>>51712020
When women invaded our hobby.

>>51712089
>If you don't think we're living in a golden age you're kidding yourself.
Or haven't tried playing anything other than Dungeons and Dragons.

>>51712020
When you started playing them.

>>51712119
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WHY DON'T GIRLS LIKE MEEEEE ;_;

>>51712089

This, I've been into ttrpgs since 1981 or so, and this as good as it's been. There are SO many good games out there now it's crazy. If you want to talk about a downturn, you should have been there in '83 when the D&D hype train died out, the playerbase fell dramatically and it turned into "that nerd game."

>>51712020
Around the time you stock with 3rd edition for 15 fucking years.

I started with AD&D in 1995.

Shit's fantastic these days. Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to start a troll thread on /tg/ what a loser!

What, no "90s"?

>>51712020
I can tell you that it's probably the other way around, tabletop RPG like DnD has never had a base in my country and people only knew it existed through american tv shows depicting it as the ultimate nerd hobby.

yet recently, more and more people are gettin into it, started with groups playing at local GWs and then snowballed from there, what's insanely popular is playing over skype or teamspeak since the playbase is still few and far between, though I have been aproached from people in my own circle I'd have neer expected to play tabletop rpgs just a while ago.

Don't know how it is in America, but it certainly gained a foothold in europe.

>>51712020
If I had to pick products that damaged the RPG community I'd go with:
>AD&D 1e, which was the first concerted corporate push to tell people that there was a "right" and "wrong" way to play D&D
>AD&D 2e and oWoD which both pushed YOU NEED THIS SPLAT product line really hard and set bad examples for publishers
>3e and the OGL, both because of how many publishers sold out (White Wolf, Guardians of Order, etc.) and because of the expectations in created in the playerbase regarding how hard it is to learn RPGs and that the d20 can run LITERALLY ANYTHING
>Pathfinder, because it continues the 3.5 cycle

>>51712329
>If you like women you must do everything with them
I know that for nu-males raised by single mothers it's difficult to understand, but when our fathers and grandfathers went to the bar way back in the day they didn't take their wives. They just left and said around what time they'd be back. And their wives were okay with this, because they also had their girly meet-ups.

Men and women are different, and single gendered groups will always be different from mixed groups. Sometimes men want to do things with other men and sometimes women want to do things with other women. This is completely normal, and only those with a hidden agenda would disagree or call this sexist.

>>51714348
>implying there's something inherently gendered in RPGs and wargames

>>51712020
I started with D&D 3.5. Each passing year has enhanced my enjoyment of the hobby. You can't beat 3.5 for Shit that's Popular.

>>51714348

Except that isn't the point he was quite reasonably mocking.

The original poster implied that women participating in TTRPGs at all was a bad thing.

I don't give a fuck about what you personally like to do. Play with guys, play with girls, play with mixed groups, whatever.

But the notion that the hobby as a whole containing a diverse mix of players is in any way a bad thing is laughable, and deserves to be ridiculed.

>>51714348
But bars suck. It's just a bunch of loser capitalist fogies complaining about young people. It's awful.

>>51714348
Exactly. The best players I've ever had have all been females. It isn't fair to my other male players. Much better to keep them separated.

>>51712419
>83 when the D&D hype train died out
Wasn't Mentzer Basic the best-selling D&D product ever?

>>51714506

No? Every D&D edition has outsold its predecessors.

Saying that, the market has also gotten bigger each and every time, so comparing D&D sales as a portion of market share rather than on their own might produce some different results.

>>51714480
>loser capitalist fogies
>there are retards who will bite this

>>51712020
Who's this semen demon?

>>51714548
>No? Every D&D edition has outsold its predecessors.
That's the same kind of logic that leads people to make fallacious statement like "the average middle classer today is richer than the greatest kings of Europe three hundred years ago."

>>51714480
Let me guess...Underage or can't hold either your liquor or the center of attention in a discussion?

>>51714614

Read the whole post before replying next time.

That line is not logic or interpretation, it is a statement of fact. And immediately afterwards I comment that it is not exactly the most meaningful fact given the context around it.

>>51714661

Not him, but no. Bars just suck.

Pubs? Pubs are awesome. Bars are trash.

>>51714661
No, just an honest, upstanding communist dedicated to destroying capitalism and liberating the people.

>>51714611
Henriette d'Orleans?

>>51714614
>That's the same kind of logic that leads people to make fallacious statement like "the average middle classer today is richer than the greatest kings of Europe three hundred years ago."

That's not a fallacious statement considering that your average middle class people enjoy better living standards and luxuries than that of the greatest kings of Europe three hundred years ago.

>>51714699
In other words, someone who desires oppression.

>>51714348
god forbid you're forced to interact with females. All we've got left as men is cars, golf, basketball, baseball, football, chess, woodworking, hockey, wargames, hunting, fishing, bowling, pool, paintball, and programming, and bushido. How many of our hobbies must fall to the vagina before we resist this influx of estrogen?

Uh, who gives a shit? Find a game you like, or several, and run them. Unless you're living with literal wolves, it isn't hard to find players or even normies to drag into the fold.

You also don't have to play new, "fad" systems or whatever. All the old RPG material that exists is still as functional as when it was written, and many of those older games have new followings now that make it easier to get a group together.

Shit, I've played 30 or even 40 different games including a few of the "newbloods" to come out lately, but I've been running some form GURPS for the past 15 years basically continuously and I've literally never had problems getting people to play with, regardless of what style of game I was running or experimenting with.

Find your fun. Decide how/what you want to play, pick a game and pressgang a few people you like, sit down, and roll some fucking dice.

The only way this hobby can "downturn" is if it dies out completely, and that's never going to happen. Tabletop roleplaying is as popular, published, and widely recognized as it ever has been. And it's still on the upswing.

Be glad there's variety. That means everyone gets what they want. The fact that we can bitch about systems, playstyles, genres, and GM/player attitudes all day every day on this board (and many others) without people ever getting bored of it is a positive omen, as obnoxious as those can be.

tl;dr
>Quit complaining, find your fun. Decide how/what you want to play, pick a game and pressgang a few people you like, sit down together, and roll some fucking dice.

>>51714744
You would say that, swine!

>>51714721
That's exactly the fallacy. Rich=/=living standards and luxuries. Middle classers today don't hold a candle to the riches of 18th century kings, it's just that far, far, far, far, far, far, far less money today buys a far greater quality of life (of course, depending on your exact definition of quality of life).

>>51714748
>but anon how could I have fun knowing my hobby is threatened by Jews and feminists, think of our children

>>51714438
I didn't imply that, where the fuck did you get that idea?

>>51714746
>If you have ONE FUCKING THING you don't want to do with women then suddenly you don't interact with women at all. Do you even think before you type? What kind of hypothetical non-human doesn't interact with women at all? The kind who was abandoned in a cave by his mother and somehow fucking created a self-sustaining source of electricity and a computer out of twigs and stones so he can order food from a company that only uses male employees, paying them with the money he doesn't have?

>>51714758
In areas where i grew up, communists were killed on a regular basis. KKK and all that didn't mean shit since they knew well enough not to bother us.

>>51714831
>What kind of hypothetical non-human doesn't interact with women at all?

/r9k/ is full of them. Return to your people!

>>51714859
In the area where I grew up, we hunted and ate travelers with money to punish them for participating in the market.

>>51714831
Honest question, what do you get out of an all male gaming group that you can't get if women are there?.

>>51714934

Safety from cooties?

I bet you he's gonna say some shit about how women "change the dynamic" and oh, everyone starts trying to impress her, and oh my, she starts "demanding attention" or something like that. As if you can't all just hang out like normal human beings.

>>51712020
>implying there's a proper fa/tg/uy who doesn't think they're on one
On the contrary, this (2006-present) is a golden age of RPGs. For the first time since 1978 there's an appreciable amount of content being made for the best playstyle instead of a bunch of disordered, incoherent clones of clones of clones.
Ride or die, OSR for life

File: 1428662639684.jpg (24KB, 402x411px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 402x411px

>>51712119
>>51714348
>>51714831

>>51714548
>Every D&D edition has outsold its predecessors.
>actually buying the flak machine's spin output this hard

That's an extremely alternative fact you've got there, kid. Whoever told you that was just flat out lying. Mentzer Basic really is the best-selling individual D&D product of all time.

>>51712089
>the middle of a renaissance.
>There are more games and more players in the hobby now than there ever have been before.

It's not a renaissance. It's gentrification. The scene is being mainstreamed, casualized, shat up by plebs. This isn't a 'renaissance', a rebirth. It's the start of the end. Games will get plebbed-down more and more until even normalfags get sick of them, and then it'll be dead and we'll all turn to vidya.

Increased numbers of female gamers are a symptom, not a cause. There have always being some legit femnerds, but the fake nerd girls (and some fake nerd guys) only come because tabletop RPGs have less stigma than they used to. The more girls you find in the hobby, the more it's been mainstreamed. If RPG makers RIGHT NOW suddenly went back to the good old days then you'd see fake nerds evaporate within a couple of years.

>>51715163
The good old days where when you were stigmatized?

>>51715163
>It's gentrification.
It's... people with more money fairly buying up shitholes due to the land they're on becoming more attractive, and then fixing them up far beyond the previous standard?

What's supposed to be bad about that?

>>51714934
The same thing women get out of their women only gyms, women only nights in swimming pools, lady's night in casino's... gee, it's almost like it's only a problem when men do it.

Long story short, a sense of brotherhood (or sisterhood, if we're talking about women) you don't get when with the other gender. It all makes perfect sense once we make the radical assumption that both genders are inherrently different and secondary/tertiary gender traits aren't fluid or social constructs.

This is why some women are called "one of the boys": they are by their very definition highly exceptional and not the norm. And even then I'd say they're still quite girly by virtue of being... well, girls.

The hypocritical assumption that is made by the critics of these obvious facts is that because you don't want to do every single thing with women, you utterly avoid them. Let me tell you something: to anyone who didn't come out of a test tube and who regularly goes outside, avoiding women is as easy as avoiding raindrops in a downpour.

>>51715163
>Games will get plebbed-down more and more until even normalfags get sick of them, and then it'll be dead and we'll all turn to vidya.
Yes, because the main trend in the RPG world right now isn't still far and away the OSR, the groggiest possible nard in gaming.

>>51715214
>a sense of brotherhood

If you want brotherhood you should take up an actually masculine hobby like fishing, hunting, camping, etc. Setting around a table pretending to be elves doesn't build brotherhood.

>>51715214
>The same thing women get out of their women only gyms, women only nights in swimming pools, lady's night in casino's

Not hit on or harassed by strange men?

>>51715214
I dunno, I have played with both all-male groups and mixed groups and haven't noticed any difference. Can you give some sort of concrete example instead of throwing around vague terms like " secondary/tertiary gender traits" and "sense of brotherhood"?

>>51715040
>a bunch of disordered, incoherent clones of clones of clones.
>not an accurate description of the OSR

>>51715163
>not a renaissance
>not nerdy enough like old days
>OSR is booming

File: 1478646339859.jpg (152KB, 800x1335px) Image search: [Google]

152KB, 800x1335px

>>51712020
No women allowed!

>>51715214

The biggest reason this is stupid is that it doesn't even make sense.

Sure, a lot of people are in the hobby doing things you might not personally enjoy. But the hobby is getting so damn large at this point that the portion you enjoy is getting bigger no matter what. It might be a smaller slice of the overall pie, but it's still more potential players whose interests align with yours.

>>51715163

I'm legit curious here. Explain to me the concept of "fake nerds". Who are they, what do they do and exactly why?

>>51715214
The things you listed for women only are more for creating space at all that women can do things men do all the time.

I get what you mean by a sense of special group membership though. Its a policy of exclusion and elitism based on arbitrary measures. Like, you can want those if you want, its an odd choice for someone who seems to feel so alienated though.

Where do you live that you have a hard time avoiding women? Or what about women do you want to avoid?

File: 1484405959537.jpg (205KB, 540x540px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 540x540px

>When and why have tabletop RPGs started to take a downturn?

>>51714785
You have brain problems if you mistaken rich for anything other than living standard.

File: 1416693352792.gif (39KB, 180x180px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 180x180px

>>51715481

Can everyone interested in this gender war bullshit in any capacity fuck off to >>>/pol/?

Talk games, not demographics.

>>51715603
They are directly related to each other

OP asked:
>When and why have tabletop RPGs started to take a downturn?

numerous posters replied with their, asked for, opinions. Which is generally:
>Women, and wider exposure to the public in general.

No one asked for what your shitty fucking opinion is so how about you fuck off to /mlp/ faggot

>>51715529
>I get what you mean by a sense of special group membership though. Its a policy of exclusion and elitism based on arbitrary measures. Like, you can want those if you want, its an odd choice for someone who seems to feel so alienated though.

It's just hollow tribalism. People who can't rise above that are not worthy of consideration.

>>51715677
Understanding what someone is doing is not the same thing as agreeing with it. I'm more interested in why though, and how this related to gaming.

>>51715677
>I don't like women in my tabletop games
You: "That's just hollow tribalism."

I don't like men in my sexual experiences.
Is that hollow tribalism too? Fuck off. You are making it tribalism when you declare it so. There's no need to place a fucking term on people doing what they like with the people they like to do those things with and not doings things they like with people they don't like to do those things with... God, you dense motherfuckers.

>>51715494

They pretend to be smart creative people who know a lot about a given subject but all they really do is play video games and whine about girls and "normies" all the time.

>>51715673
>numerous
like 2 or 3

>>51715736
How does this relate to RPGs somehow being on a decline?

>>51715731
>I don't like men in my sexual experiences.
>Is that hollow tribalism too?

Do you use your genitalia to play RPGs?

>>51715163
((((gentrification))))) would imply there's some kind of zero sum on RPG players and that somehow RPGs you don't like being played by people you don't like physically limits you and your friends from playing.

>>51715736
I've known a lot of legitimate nerds. I would never have considered any of them to be 'creative people', I would seriously hesitate to call them smart. I consider them extremely knowledgeable about a limited number of areas. Most of those are not creative on those topics, they are obsessive.

>>51715736
that sounds like real nerds to me

>>51715776
Yes, I deeply roleplay.

I once spent a whole month in the woods being arrogant before creating an elf ranger.

>btw your point is moot. For the purposes of the analogy the differences of the two scenarios is not relevant

Tabletop RPGs are about having fun with your friends, so if they're on a downturn it's because all your former gaming buddies decided to do something else with their time.

I know this has mostly been in the context of RPGs, but now is also a really bitching time for tabletop wargames.

GW lost their deathgrip on the market and there's a shit ton of good games with active communities to scratch your itches, and even the generic systems these days are pretty nice as well.

I mean if you guys want to keep having the exact same argument about woman playing /tg/ games that's fine too. Most women don't give a shit about /tg/ games either, and those that roleplay tend to do freeform online.

>>51715776
Not gonna lie, yes. The only times I ever seduced character's in a game was when I fucked the players too

The storywriting has a taken a turn downhill, but that's hardly exclusive to tabletop RPG's. It's more a symptom of the current social climate, where mediocrity is glorified and only what's loud is considered popular and good. Yes, the new stuff has fluffy bits riddled with feminism and minorities, but that's simply because the creators think it'll sell better if they write for the larger crowd. At the end of the day it doesn't matter - if you don't like it, just don't put it in your game. Unlike video games, you have the freedom of control, and always will.

If anything, though, the mechanics are being improved, and more content is being released, which is never a bad thing as you can simply discard what you don't like.

As for normies and women, if you're playing with strangers you're doing it wrong to begin with. That sort of thing is designed specifically so people can /try/ tabletop games. Some of them may get into it, some won't, but if you've a problem with it, then play with friends who share your opinions.

That's my two cents, at least.

File: 5a396a665ef9e3a60945b45cf5e3e119[1].jpg (49KB, 445x700px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 445x700px

>>51714704
You're about two centuries early there.

>>51714611
http://eves-rib.deviantart.com/art/French-cuirassier-379690034
it's dA fanart of pic related. Disgusting.

>>51715802
>>51715830

Must be a generational difference, I grew up in the 80s. Nerds used to be the smart kids, the guys who could build stuff or do stuff or help you with stuff.
Now I guess they're just lazy spiteful unsocialized consumers of mass media. What we used to call "dorks" -- IE all the lousy social skills, but with none of the talent or brains of the nerds.

>>51714685
What is the difference? I thought they were synonymous.

>>51715965
>saw the thumbnail
>didn't notice a difference
Do all French men look like cute girls from a distance?

Aside, the artist likely got the idea from the picture of the Prussian princess wearing a life hussar uniform. I don't mind - cute girls in cute uniforms is a double win. At least it's better than modern art.

>>51715971
>Nerds used to be the smart kids, the guys who could build stuff or do stuff or help you with stuff.

Grew up in the 90's here. I used to think about nerds that way, and to be fair it's pretty applicable to the nerds I actually know. But ever since I came into contact with the internet it's been clear that nerds are, just like everyone else, mostly shitty people.

>>51715971
maybe, I grew up in the 90s

>>51715975
I think a pub is like a café but with beer instead of coffee. You can buy small meals there and stuff. I think, I've never been to Britain and I don't really drink beer in general.

>>51715444
Of course this is bait, but for the sake of the trips I'll answer it seriously: the retroclones in the OSR are firstly, excuses to publish new modules for the original games first and foremost, and secondly, take pains to not become incoherent. When Anon says incoherent and disordered, he's thinking of things like D&D begetting Runequest, which had lost D&D's incentive structures and thus become effectively unplayable by someone who didn't start with D&D, then Runequest begetting other systems by inspiration which didn't even understand what Runequest really was, those systems then producing their own imitators and so on until we ended up with dogshit like GURPS where you can nominally stat out everything but not play out anything at all, or WoD where the rules are just a gigantic creaky heap of shit that falls apart with every other die roll because "the story is more important, uwaah". This happened because the creators of all those systems don't actually understand what a roleplaying game really is or how it's made to work, which led to the OSR (as well as to the storygames movement which noticed the exact same issues and went for a different solution).

>>51715926
this. Asking when and why RPGs have taken a downturn is like asking when and why cooking has taken a downturn. The general culture around it has almost no impact on how and what you do own your own.

>>51715329
I thought men and women were the same.

>>51715975
>>51716023
My 2 cents:
Pub: a place were you can buy alcohol and hang out and talk to with people.
Club: a place were you can buy alcohol that also includes dancefloors and very loud music.
Bar: General-purpose term that can mean either Pub or Club.

>>51716034
>Of course this is bait
It's nice you put that right up front, instead of making people read the whole wall of text to work that out.

>>51715084
>impact font meme
Ironic

File: cuirassier[1].jpg (88KB, 400x555px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 400x555px

>>51716010
>Do all French men look like cute girls from a distance?
Maybe it's just a cuirassier thing.

>>51716023
As a colonial, this is fairly accurate. Maybe the motherland has changed it's pubs but here in Australia pubs also serve meals (usually dinners) and often have local entertainment like bands.

Bars exist solely so people too old for nightclubs can still be drunken degenerates.

>>51716017
>But ever since I came into contact with the internet it's been clear that nerds are, just like everyone else, mostly shitty people.

Not if we subscribe to the asshat's theory of "fake nerds," then we can just arbitrarily decide that all the shitty people are just calling themselves "nerds" for the social cachet. Which actually makes more sense to do for a bunch of worthless dorks that no one will ever love than it does for your average "chad" or girl.

>>51716070

Morally and ethically they should be equal, but that's not the same thing as men and women being "the same."

>>51716086

This is pretty much accurate to Britain and what I've seen of the continent, too.

File: 1394415015726.gif (1MB, 633x475px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 633x475px

>>51716078

>>51715736
Someone sounds like their skin has reached its limit.

There is no such saying as, "the best offense is a good defense."

>>51716084
That one...that one I legitimately can't tell.

>>51716112

You didn't find that offensive? 'Cause it was intended to be.

>>51715926
Agreed. Playing with strangers is for con games and that can be fun as fuck but bread and butter gaming should be amongst friends.

File: 220px-LouisXIV-child[1].jpg (15KB, 220x248px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 220x248px

>>51716124
It gets worse.

>>51716017
I argue that being a true nerd involves a passionate, specialized knowledge of a subject at the cost of other skills almost always starting with social skills.

>>51712020
Economically and industrially this is patently false. Artistically (i.e. game design) this is arguable but I think we are in the middle of the tabletop equivalent to the Cambrian Explosion. Time will sort out the truly successful game design methods and models while evolution marches on.

File: Ulrik_Prince_of_Denmark.jpg (222KB, 742x1000px) Image search: [Google]

222KB, 742x1000px

>>51716133
Meet Ulrik, prince of Denmark, Prince-Bishop of Schwering, claimant to most of North Germany¨ (Actual picture of him as Prince-Bishop)

>>51716367
He - he's LITERALLY wearing a dress

>>51716382
It's not a dress lad it's a... fuck it *is* a dress!

File: Jan van Bijlert Portrait of a young boy.jpg (106KB, 800x1099px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 800x1099px

>>51716408
>>51716382
It was the German fashion at the time.
Or maybe dutch painters were perverts?
Who knows.

>>51716382
>He - he's LITERALLY wearing a dress
Nix. Even Wikipedia and some books by poorly read oafs make this mistake, but it's not, it's a "robe", which was considered distinct at that time. Basically, back before diapers boys also wore them until they could be trusted not to shit randomly, so they'd be easier to clean up -- wouldn't fuck up the robe, just their underpants. Also it's easier to just get *on* the can since you just haul up the robe and trop your underpants.

Once they could be trusted to unbutton the pointlessly fucked up buttoning and hook system of a pair of breeches they were "breeched" which was like a major life rite of passage for boys back then -- nobles would have special paintings commissioned, there would be parties and so on.

>>51716513
>It was the German fashion at the time.
Nix. It was all over Europe. Frenchmen, Englishmen, you name it.

>>51716632
While you have a point, the word "Kjole" is specifically used to refer to this type of garment by Danish writers.

That would be "Dress".

>>51716693
Period Danish writers, or just modern ones?

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally prepared to believe both, I only ask because in most languages/countries, the period writers are very careful to make a distinction, use words like robe or coat, and the garments themselves are also tailored differently (e.g. here >>51716367 you can see that the top half looks like a man's doublet, and this one >>51716513 looks like a gallooned buff coat, not a lady's or girl's bodice), whereas many modern writers are either ignorant of this or (unfortunately) are deliberately obfuscating it for various obtuse political points they think they're scoring.

File: Kirsten_Munk,_målning_av_Jacob_van_Dort_från_1623.jpg (56KB, 550x590px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 550x590px

>>51716817
Period writers.
Danish-Norwegian writers of the time quite clearly don't give a fuck about this gender divide, as evidenced by the fact that the word for cassock was, and is, "Præstekjole" (Priest dress).

As for the idea that the top part of his dress is made like a doublet, you've certainly got sort of a point. However it's also clearly modelled after dresses of the time.

(Picture of his dad's mistress, and mother of 12, that is to say about 1/3rd, of Ulrik's half siblings, for reference)

>>51716998
Hold up, I got her and Vibeke Kruse mixed up.

Kirsten Munk actually married him as his second wife, whereas it was Vibeke Kruse who was his official mistress ("Wife of the left hand" being the official title).
The number of kid's is still right though.

My bad.

>>51716998
>Danish-Norwegian writers of the time quite clearly don't give a fuck about this gender divide, as evidenced by the fact that the word for cassock was, and is, "Præstekjole" (Priest dress).
Oh, so it's like "frock". Huh! Interesting. (I should clarify that I don't know dick about the Danish language) That makes sense, I guess, I'll remember that as an exception.

>However it's also clearly modelled after dresses of the time.
I have to strongly disagree here, though. Look at those girls' bodices. Vertical lines, no frogs down the center, completely different contour on the lower front and a peplum. Also the open collar instead of a man's closed collar. I'm sorry, but this is your modern perspective butting in, mentally classing it as "a dress" on an instinctive level because of the stuff you're used to -- and I don't say that as a putdown, it's fully understandable. But those collars are as distinct for the period as a babydoll tee with deep cleavage is from a crewneck men's t-shirt now. (There are various other differences -- the shapes of the slash sleeves which the girls also show a different color beneath, the gold-laced shoulderpieces in place of the narrow foldback shape the boy has on his, again like a men's doublet of the period -- understated if anything, actually -- but in comparison, those are subtle details of cut, so forget it)

The grown woman, same thing with the collar and peplum. I admit that the style using frogging is superficially more similar, especially on the sleeves, but look how much more elaborate and for lack of a better word, prissy it is.

Again, I can totally get that and why these things look similar to the modern eye, but they really weren't thought of that way, and the "jacket" part of the boy's outfit is definitely modeled on menswear of the same period.

>>51715327
>Setting around a table pretending to be elves doesn't build brotherhood.

That's where you're wrong. Probably because you're not a man.

>>51715199
Yes.

>>51717245
I can just stigmatize you here if you want.

>>51717218
That Anon is more of a man than you.

File: Kristian_IV_av_Danmark,_malning_av_Pieter_Isaacsz_1611-1616.jpg (297KB, 588x800px) Image search: [Google]

297KB, 588x800px

>>51717138
Yes "Frock" would be translated as "Dress", however male versions of frocks (Like those worn by modern era English gentlemen) are "Frakke" (Coat) and smock-frocks would be "Kitler".

Kjole is used about feminine wear, children's clothes and priest wear, and nothing else.

Anyway.
No, of course I'm not suggesting this child is crossdressing, seeing as that was literally illegal in the country at the time. However wearing things that are close to what we'd consider straight up womanly dresses was clearly within the fashion of the era, with cuts that are very close even to dresses of the era

To prove I'll post a picture of his dad in his formal doublet, which interestingly has no frogging (Featuring instead simple buttons) and features a more elaborate ruff which to this day is the fashion for priests of the church of Denmark, rather than the collar which I legitimately can only find equivalents on in women's dresses at the time.

Interestingly his brothers are also either portrayed with ruffs or collars that are essentially small lace capes, while he has a very distinct collar

>>51715211
He's just mad that now that it isn't a "loser hobby" like he thinks it used to be there are people in "his" domain that make him look bad for being socially maladjusted. Also, there are women around, and it's a constant reminder of how undesirable he is.

>>51717631
Oh, so his analogy actually makes perfect sense then! Thanks, Anon.

Personally I feel like it still kinda has a stain of "loser hobby" though, ngl. Hard to imagine someone in the club mentioning it to a girl he's hitting on, unlike say football or hang gliding

Things are better than they've ever been.

>bigger backlog of old games than ever
>more great new games than ever
>game mechanics being pushed further than ever
>hobby is less stigmatized than ever
>more people playing than ever
>3.PF market share declining faster than ever

What's not to like? You have new games to choose from, you can still play your old favorites, and you have a bigger selection of people to play with.

File: Frans_Pourbus_(II)_-_Portrait_of_a_Frenchman_-_WGA18248.jpg (148KB, 600x745px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 600x745px

>>51717609
To be totally honest this confused me at first and I wrote a whole other post based on recalled stuff like the boy's barred sleeves as being a distinctly older fashion than this 30 Years' War era stuff the king wear shere. Fortunately I went and looked it up, and it turns out it's just two different styles of fashion, so once I knew that I could shake out some pictorial examples. First, pic related is the Duc de Luynes from the same years as the portrait of Kristian IV -- note the collar and that shoulder fold.

>>51717804
>>hobby is less stigmatized than ever
>>more people playing than ever


They probably view these as negatives.

>>51716078
It's a typeface, you mong.

>>51712020
What's down about it?

>>51717609
So if certain types of clothes are virtually the same between genders, how do they determine who's crossdressing? Are they really anal about how something was cut, or is more about your accessories?

>>51717896
Alexander Charles Waza, 1619, heir to the throne of Poland until he died of smallpox, wearing a heavily pearl-embroidered doublet with essentially the same collar type and the same barred sleeves -- and notice he's breeched, quite possibly a breeching portrait. Demonstrates about as clearly as one could really hope for that the upper of the robe in >>51716367 is patterned on a doublet, I think.

>>51715163
It's diversifying. What you're describing is happening but at the same time we've got shit like SoS. Hell, there's like three games trying to be a successor to Riddle of Steel right now. And that's as grognardy and elite as you can get.

File: Zinn_Alexander_Charles_Vasa.jpg (147KB, 550x787px) Image search: [Google]

147KB, 550x787px

>>51717966
Shit, forgot to add the pic.

>>51714480
Go to different bars. There are bars where everyone in the room is CNT-FAI all the way through, and bars where nobody who's out of high school ever drinks. There's probably some where both of those things are true.

File: Louis_Dreizehn_France.jpg (1MB, 1417x1880px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1417x1880px

>>51717966
Louis XIII as a breeched boy, 1616 or thereabouts -- posted because he uses essentially the same doublet style as >>51717609 but with the other type of collar.

I think that should do for now as far as spamming images.

>>51717953
>So if certain types of clothes are virtually the same between genders, how do they determine who's crossdressing?
Well, I'm not him, but the whole point I'm trying to make is that the clothes were actually not virtually the same, it's just the span of time making us look at them as more similar than they really are. To them it was a fairly obvious difference. Again, look at how the girls' collars are cut, for example.

>>51715975
They're generally the same, but "pub" is the British word and "bar" is the American word. Presumably in his area where's some that are more in the American style and some that are more in the British style, using different names.

>>51715327
>fishing
How is sitting staring at a lake or river more manly than sitting around a table?
>camping
This seems to be about the same for men and women: Most people are pussies and only a small minority actually do things properly.

>>51717953
The only example I know of where someone was prosecuted for this law was a woman in a priest outfit, so I imagine it's another one of those laws that only came up when convenient. (Like the Danish law of the same era that said that any Swede who crossed the ice to Denmark was to be beaten with a stick until he went home)

But I imagine they were fairly anal about different cuts, where we see virtually no difference as outsiders to that culture.


>>51717896
>>51718084
I concede my point, but you must agree that it is odd that similar styles to his clothes are not seen in Danish portraits of the era, but we have to head to France.

>>51718197
>you must agree that it is odd that similar styles to his clothes are not seen in Danish portraits of the era, but we have to head to France.
Oh, yeah. Like I said, at first it threw me completely too. I'd like to suggest an explanation, but like I also said, I don't know jack about Denmark specifically, unfortunately.

>>51715575
It means having an abundance of wealth, you fucking autist. Some shithead Big Man from Papua New Guinea can be richer than you in whatever their local currency is, seashells or whatever. It's just that he's limited to using his wealth to buy better feather cloaks and more bananas than all his friends.

This goes triple for European nobility, whose wealth was measured in things we still attribute monetary value to, like silver and gold.

Just like a person can have a net worth of millions, owning companies and having made brilliant investments, yet live in a humble apartment and take the bus to work. He's still rich, he's choosing not to employ his wealth.

>>51715163
Oh no! New roleplaying games that are not the exact way I like them are being published!
Oh no! Other people than social outcasts are playing roleplaying games, and the nerds are getting more and more socially adept!
Oh no! For some reason I can't play the old games that are already published, with a group of people I pick out!

>>51715163
Holy shit, that pasta theory about being afraid of people who haven't paid prices was true

>>51715214
>a sense of brotherhood
>putting elfgames in the same category as fishing, hunting, fixing the car, war and barbecues
I bet you knew every crack and stain on the bottom of the high school toilets by the time you graduated.

>more people are playing games I don't like than ever before!

How did Rawls' principle of difference go? Inequality is acceptable so long as it allowed for the highest improvement in the state of society's poorest?

>>51720725
What the shit?

>>51721466
It's an ancient pasta from /tg/ where someone tries to explain why a certain type of geek is so upset to see "normies" in their hobby. Basically it comes down to: geeks have low self-esteem and a low capacity for introspection. Their whole life, in order to protect their egos, they've been telling themselves that the loneliness and alienation they've been feeling are just the "price" they've paid for their expertise in a deep and complicated hobby (meaning, they could've chosen not to and in that case would've been just as popular as anyone else - it was their choice). Seeing normies in the hobby terrifies them more than anything because it's a proof that it's possible to both play it AND be popular, meaning once again being confronted with the possibility that it is, in fact, their fault (and not the hobby) that they're lonely. Faced with such cognitive dissonance, geeks will turn to lines of thought like "the normies aren't playing it is *as well* as I am, my "sacrifice" of my social skills and love life still mattered" in order to dodge the introspective bullet.

File: anti_normie.jpg (62KB, 450x532px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 450x532px

>>51715163
>>51715214
incels locacted.

File: Fedora - The Tipping.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

This is relevant to your interests. If reading this makes you want to compose a long message about how wrong it is and how it's wrong: you are exactly the subjects.

>>51721504
This is pretty much the truth also for some people who refuse to realize their autism in using old techniques in an competitive market is making us losing money and clients so I am forced to let him go after giving him at least three chances for old times sake.

They're literally the best they've ever been.

>>51712020
>obvious bait
>146 replies
le sigh

>>51714785
you're aware that there are two relevant definitions of rich?

>>51720664
I'm pretty sure native New Guineans just use barter. Being rich would mean having the most bananas yourself, which you'd then trade for more fish. The feather cloaks are like the local Ferrari equivalents, you buy one to show the ladies you got bananas to spare.

File: 203a63b095c33ee7def66976c253af13.jpg (76KB, 564x734px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 564x734px

>>51721698
>bitches can't handle his swag

File: Chuunibyo - The Arm-Grabbing.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>51721547

They're on a downtread because current generation are ADHD attentionwhores who can't go 5 minutes without being on their cocaine-addiction phones to check Snap/Insta/FB/Twitter. The attention span is almost none existent.

Yes, there's tons of good games out there now because the internet and self publishing lets someone with a cool idea to just make it happen. But I personally have found it harder and harder to create and maintain groups that last more than a handful of sessions, and the sessions we do play, everyone is wanking to their own glory.

t. cranky old grognard

>>51721669
>replying to threads you don't like instead of ignoring them

Wow

File: Troll_9c12d5_2135951.jpg (37KB, 411x500px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 411x500px

>>51712020
HAHAHA... no.

>>51712180
Underrated post desu.

>>51718197
>(Like the Danish law of the same era that said that any Swede who crossed the ice to Denmark was to be beaten with a stick until he went home)
kek

>>51714348
Then just don't invite girls to the group. It's not like you're being held at gunpoint.

>>51717968
What? Is it considered old school now? Last time I checked OSR was about remaking hardcore D&D, not some obscure games general public never heard about like the Riddle of Steel.

>>51712020
Fa/tg/uys are by definiton not a species able to reproduce, RPG is a dying medium with no generational turnover.

>>51723997
What are you intending to imply with this point? I don't see the relevance at all.

>>51724540
It's weird to mention obscure games which slip under the radar and go unnoticed by most players as part of diversity.

>>51724707
On the contrary, that's what diversity fucking is. There's a ton of RoS-based games, there's a community built up around it. That was an example. There's also a ton of engines on the apocalypse engine, if you want a more famous example, and there's still a fair sized FATE community. There's the Japanese game stuff going on, with people localizing those games and making their own on similar design principles. And, yes, there's loads D&D retroclones being pushed out. Lots of different things. And I've no doubt that there's many other small communities that I'm not even aware of. That's what diversity is. And part of that diversity is that you personally aren't going to be following most of those, because the market is too diverse for any one person to reasonably do so, so some of it will seem obscure to you and go under your radar. But it's an obscure hobby, that's normal. If there was nothing that went under anyone's radar, that would be an example of a non-diverse medium.

>>51724803
It seems like fruitless diversity to me but fair enough.

>>51712020
Nice bait.

>>51715163

You live a sad and lonely existence and I pity you.

>>51720757
... I mean, yeah. The reason why those things are considered to give you a sense of brotherhood is because you're spending a lot of time with other guys and growing closer as friends. D&D is the same.

>>51715575
What middle class person today is rich enough to command armies, build fortresses and send exploration fleets across the sea?

>>51725270
I can attest that Steve Applebaum, 38, who lives across the street from me in Seattle has in fact recently used money collected over a decade of accounting to build a star fort around his apartment building, fill it with cannons and muskets, and declare it the sovereign dominion of Applebaum.

>>51721547
>Kafkatraps
>Current year

File: michaelbayerb.gif (4MB, 384x216px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 384x216px

>>51725359
kek

>>51724954
As long as there is a group in the world for a game, then making it is not fruitless.

>>51724954
It's not like tabletop gaming is known for its productive output. If people have a good time with it, what's wrong with that?

>>51725270
Building a fortress is well within the middle class budget. I suspect that commanding armies would stretch it some, but not to the breaking point, if they're armies of Africans or Indians. Commanding large fleets isn't, but launching exploration ventures by boat is. If we look at these specific metrics, those of dominions over the world, then the kings of the 18th century were wealthier. On the other hand, there was never an 18th century king who could sent a picture of his penis to someone on the opposite side of the globe in an instant.


>>51725359
If you had said he'd gone up into the mountains to do it, rather than around his apartment building, this would have been entirely credible.

>>51716181
Autism. What you're thinking of is autism.>>51716259

>>51726802
>Building a fortress is well within the middle class budget.
What the fuck is middle class to you?

>>51724954
>its pointless if it doesn't benefit me personally!

>>51728396
Between about $30k and $100k per year. How much do you think concrete costs to make? A modern fortress is basically just a fuckton of concrete plus some stuff that's in most houses anyway, so if your fortress is also your house it's not even very expensive.

>>51728450
That's not even close to equivalent, you obtuse cunt. Go fuck yourself.

>>51728656
What's your definition of a fortress that can't be built on a middle class budget?

>>51728669

Not him, but I'd say if you don't have at least fifty men at arms, you're just playing pretend.

File: hohensalzburg_castle.jpg (226KB, 810x556px) Image search: [Google]

226KB, 810x556px

>>51728669
You might have to take an extra big mortgage.

>>51728450
Property cost, labour, zoning fees, property tax, etc.

What we have here is a guy who heard a neat 'factoid' about how middle class people today are as well off as rich guys used ta be, and doesn't want to let go.

Trivia: The original definition of factoid is a thing which appears to be factual but is not; like how an android is not a human despite its human appearance

>>51728696
A fortress and an army are separate things.

Also you could probably rig up 50 automatic rifles to a central control system for way higher killing power. This would be illegal in many countries though. In the US you'd have to make a lot of the parts yourself in order to do it legally, which means you need a machine shop and that raises the price.

>>51728699
A fortress and a castle aren't the same thing. Fortresses don't imply anything about size.

>>51728700
You can't build a fortress in the middle of a city (except maybe Detroit) on a middle class budget. Doesn't mean you can't build one at all.
>labour
Literally do it yourself. It'll take like a year or two to get the structure done (depending on size and how you do the foundations), one more to get the inside livable, and maybe one or two more to get it comfortable and classy.

Then on to other projects like the guns, or maybe something sensible instead. But if you're the kind of guy who builds a fortress you're probably not that sensible.

>>51728810
That wasn't my "factoid", I think it's pointless to compare the two. But you could totally build a fortress if you really wanted to. People do, in fact, but it's more common to build a more disperse compound even for the sort of political outliers who think it's a worthwhile thing to do in the first place.

>>51712176

Tbh the reason people think it's bad is because there's so much out there. If theres a hundred good games, there's a thousand bad ones, and the famous ones(like D&d) are either famous because they used to be good or because there was litterally nothing to compare it to, so when you look at the first 10 games you just find garbage. I started shadowrun recently and it might be the most mechanically solid game Ive ever played.

>>51728872
>A fortress and a castle aren't the same thing. Fortresses don't imply anything about size.
Ah. You meant a pillow fortress.

>>51715329

Ah, so there's behaviour differences between men and women?

Look, it's perfectly acceptable on either side, i game with whoever wants to, but to pretend there isnt something someone could get out of a guy could get out of gaming with an all male group but there is validity to various "women's" events is so hypocritical it makes my head spin.

File: Sweet Summer Child.gif (1003KB, 245x173px) Image search: [Google]

1003KB, 245x173px

>>51728997
>started shadowrun recently and it might be the most mechanically solid game Ive ever played.
>Shadowrun
>The most mechanically solid game you've ever played
>Shadowrun
>The most mechanically solid game you've ever played

>>51728872
>it can't be too big
>and it has to be in the middle of nowhere
>and you have to build it yourself
>over years
>but its totally the same as ye olden times!
>I didn't even mean fortress the way everyone else does, just that I could be pedantic about it!

kys

>>51729389

It's only hypocritical if you buy into the idea that men and women are exactly alike and therefore must have the same needs. Which is false.
Men and women ARE different, so the idea that women might need a space where they can avoid being around men, while men don't require such a space is perfectly possible.
Women's needs are different from men's, and what's more, men are naturally more aggressive than women, so the bad men tend to push their badness on you WAY more than the bad women do.

I personally don't feel any need to avoid women, ever. Avoid a specific woman? Sure, but not women in general. The fact that some guys seem to want such a space makes them seem a little broken to me, and a little womanish.

>>51729513
You can build a nicer fortress than a lot of the old German castles that have since been revamped into hostels and shit.

>B-but it would be work
Yeah, that's why nobody fucking does it.

>>51712060

5e was a step back from the cliff of shit that 4e attempted to throw us off of. But D&D is still shit.

File: 228280_20170212225453_1.png (2MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x1080px

It wasn't women. It was video games.

>>51712119
>>51712020
You two are just retards.

>>51712419
>>51712682
I started in 1989. When Magic hit the market in '93 it was a critical hit that almost got the RPG industry killed. New players just wanted to play MtG and even veterans quit RPGs to play and collect CCGs.
Today we got so many fucking good games!

>>51726028
Kafkatraps are great though anon, don't you want to feel smugly superior to the people you're directly insulting by not giving them the chance to defend themselves

>>51729528
You are why Trump won. Fuck you.

>>51731687

>butthurt about Trump
>blames me

Hey, I'm not a Russian hacker, anon. Or Hillary, thank god.

Remember when we had that thread were some guy said that not only does he not let female players into his game, or allow men to play as women PCs, but was also deadset about never roleplaying a female NPC? Very well could have been bait or trolling but man I can believe someone like that exists.

>>51721547
That shit was written by an obvious redditor pretending to fit in but being aware that they are an obvious redditor they double down on their moralfaggotry and smug self-righteousness as if that will throw people off of the trail.
You can tell because everything on there is harping on anon behavior, but there's no normalfag examples of edge as if normalfags can't be edgy themselves.
>Japanophilia
>Misogyny
>Hipsterism
>Revenge fantasy
>pseudo-intellectualism

But it completely ignores the other side of the coin that is just as prevalent and fits the idea behind the system just as well like the Fat Acceptance bullshit, or the unironic "mind my pronounce, shitlord" or "trigger warnings" or "People of Color can't be racist because racism = prejudice + power " or "safe spaces"
Like I said. Obviously written by an outsider. Got some of the memes right but their blatant bias that anyone in the middle would also be lambasting about internet subcultures gives them away.

>>51715084
"I have no rebuttal" -(you)

>>51732600

It was written by a fa/tg/uy, based on his own tendencies when he was younger. He posted threads here asking for help testing and improving it, I was there.
Good job jumping at shadows though. Now why don't you go check your basement, I think I heard some redditors hiding in there.

File: 1381887865729.png (500KB, 954x1022px) Image search: [Google]

500KB, 954x1022px

>>51733031

>>51733076
>It was written by a fa/tg/uy, based on his own tendencies when he was younger. He posted threads here asking for help testing and improving it, I was there.
Yeah because no one ever lies on the internet.

Lack of the smug centrism like no railing against the new pseudo-intellectual Agnostic "you can't know nuffin" that would place the writers experience as being recent or smug agnostic centrism itself gives the writer away.

>>51733090
you really can't think of a constructive way to refute what I'm saying, huh?

File: mfw.gif (5MB, 532x354px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 532x354px

>>51733131

You are not well.

>>51733152
Why make a long post that you will not read and even if you did you would not understand when I can just post a pic calling you a moron?

>>51733179
Also the fact that it's called "fedora tipper", and is specifically fun of 4chan users/culture even though the fedora meme was started by 4chan and targets a wide variety of people on the political spectrum.
For example it one of the things on there is themed around misogyny. Are some of the people labeled Fedoras misogynists? Sure. But a far larger number which is what generated the Fedora label in the first place, with it only becoming an insult to 4chan culture later, is the typical "M'lady, I will defend your honor on the Internets." Surely you have seen the images posted around. Or maybe not, because no one really does that much anymore precisely because the culture changed.
But anyways, the "M'lady/White Knight" fedora culture was far more significant in the Fedora insult development than /pol/ or /r9k/ misogyny. The complete lack of commentary on the "Maybe if I act like a gentleman white knight women will give me a chance" aspect of the Fedora insult is telling. In fact that aspect was prolific enough that the only way the writer would have missed that jab is if they are so new they only experienced the later MGTOW/MRA development. This gives the writer away as being new and/or biased.

>>51733273
because I'd actually read it? and calling someone a moron instead of arguing against something you don't like makes you look kind of unjustified or uninformed.

why woman come into hobby

back in old day we were peace

now war

why

File: timetostop.jpg (11KB, 229x183px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 229x183px

>>51733306

Damn, dude, turn off the internet for a while, you are seriously deranged at this point. The fedora meme has changed dramatically over the years, and just because this guy's book isn't reinforcing your current world view does not mean that he's your boogeyman secret agent trying to deceive you, and it certainly doesn't call for you to write these elaborate posts decrying same.
Get a grip, dude.

>>51733320
I doubt you would even bother and more to the point when you are retarded enough to be butthurt that a woman somewhere in the world is playing /tg/ stuff even that it has zero effect on you or your group then you are a lost cause.
>>51733408
Women have been in the hobby long before you have been born and they will be in it long after you have died.

>>51733482
>Women have been in the hobby long before you have been born and they will be in it long after you have died.

no woman did not rpg in cold war

only man playing woman only character pcs

now, woman playing woman or man sometimes

i protest this

no

>>51733482
wow you seriously think everyone on this site is one person, I critiqued your response, that's all, btw what people are saying is that the integration of the sexes in trad gaming, IE, trying to make it more "approachable" is damaging

>>51733438
I'm just calling a spade a spade.
The guy is obviously fucking new. Even your own post contradicts the statement he presumably made.
> He posted threads here asking for help testing and improving it, I was there.
If he was such a long time lurker, and writing based on his own experience why is it entirely devoid of older sources of cringe and on inspection seems to be exclusively making fun of recent 4chan culture, particularly /r9k/ and /pol/? For example
>Self-Doubt filtered through Japanophilia manifests in the idea of a society free of “feminist thought police”, “misandry” and “the Jewish agenda”
This shit is obviously based on /pol/ memes, even though weeaboo behavior was made fun of and far predates /pol/.
Nothing on the more prolific and certainly more edgy aspect of weeabooism like being chuuni and posting on gaia with XxSephiroth666xX. You probably don't even know what gaia is.

>>51733518
Go be a underage faggot somewhere else.
>>51733520
I know their and your posts are waaaah women playing /tg/ stuff somewhere world. Dumbasses like you can not be helped by anyone in 4chan, only professional help has a chance with this kind of thing.

File: [Disdain For Pink Skins Intensifies].png (699KB, 900x1155px) Image search: [Google]

699KB, 900x1155px

>>51733702
that was nonsense

>>51733563
>seems to be exclusively making fun of recent 4chan culture, particularly /r9k/ and /pol/?
It's only a couple years old, mate. It was dealing with contemporary issues not a "look at what oldfags we are" thing.

Like, maybe the dude was new. Who knows? He was anonymous, as are we all. But also, who cares? It was a fun thing we did on /tg/, the sort that used to be ubiquitous and still happens sometimes.

File: flying man.jpg (23KB, 640x604px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 640x604px

>>51733761
You are nonsense.

>>51733839
that isn't an argument, you're clearly just mad that I don't share your view.

File: 1389676016369.jpg (29KB, 490x333px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 490x333px

>>51733910

>>51733929
how?

File: 24361-29882-269.jpg (11KB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 320x240px

>>51733839

>>51715971
>Nerds used to be the smart kids, the guys who could build stuff or do stuff or help you with stuff.
None of that stuff actually makes you a nerd anymore. Nowadays the only defining factors are the shitty behaviors.

File: flying man2.jpg (57KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 1024x768px

>>51733965
Like it? Here is a another one.

>>51733929
give me one way women in the gaming community has helped

>>51733958
The fact that not everyone is cry crying about women playing /tg/ stuff makes you butthurt.

>>51734106
One of the ca/tg/irls on here is a freelance writer that's done work for White Wolf and Shadowrun. We chat on Discord sometimes. She's cool.

Also a large portion of the White Wolf fan base and community.

>>51734147
>White Wolf and Shadowrun
>helped

>>51734112
not really, it's just my opinion, it's not like it's a moral crusade or something, I just feel like I enjoy certain activities with guys because it's guy time, and I've never really had a good experience with a girl doing trad games, and I've been doing it a long time.

I guess it might not make sense to you, but I don't need people to agree with me, it doesn't make me wrong.

>>51734147
>white wolf

not helping the case in my opinion, but I mean if you enjoy it you do you, my problem is when people try to pander to a female demographic at the cost of the charm that came with what I associate with traditional gaming.

like, for example, I roleplay for fun, I don't want feminism, politics, or quasi therapy, and it happens so often when we have girls in the group.

>>51714608
Apparently you're one of them.

>>51734106

>one way

Okay, I'll bite. Here's one. Wolfpacks and Winter Snow was made by a female resident of the OSR General, and it is fucking dope.

http://falsemachine.blogspot.co.nz/2016/08/wolf-packs-and-winter-snow-by-emmy-allen.html

>>51734596
not my thing, try again?

>>51734106
Give me one way men in the gaming community have helped ;^)

File: Catan.png (340KB, 675x4241px) Image search: [Google]

340KB, 675x4241px

>>51734106
Good prizes.

>>51734655
they created it

>>51734644

>moving the goalposts
>again

I don't see why anyone should take your request seriously anymore, at this point.

>>51734644
>try again
Why? No one made any claim they cared about what contributions you valued. You asked a general question about how women helped, and you got you answer.

You could have saved time by asking "How have women in gaming helped me specifically?" so we could all just say "Fuck off."

>>51734671
good point I suppose. alright I concede

File: 1287212757320.jpg (25KB, 400x533px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 400x533px

>>51734671

>>51729427

What? Its really solid. Most of what I've played is d&d, and while I won't hear a negative word about my poor retarded baby, it has flaws. Shadowruns only real flaw is how out of control dicepools get.

>>51734671
>>51734867
also holy shit I just read that and I hope it's fake but I totally know there are people that depraved

>>51729528

Have you considered you might be the exception? Most guys have atleast one thing they do "with the guys". Not having something you want to keep between male friends is weird. Maybe you're just so autistic you don't understand that there's different social expectations you're supposed to live up to around women, and thats why many men want a men's only space? Btw thats also where"one of the guys" comes from- it describes a woman who you can have hose barriers down around who isn't romantically involved with anyone present. This is why it's typically a co-worker or very old friend.

>>51734929
>>51734896
Huh. I'm kind of surprised that enough time has passed for Catan to fade from the public consciousness.

File: 1451977758802.png (470KB, 468x810px) Image search: [Google]

470KB, 468x810px

>>51734966
you get it

>>51734984
everyone knows the game, it's great. but who would want to play with some inconsiderate polygamist satanist edgy dom-sub asshats

>>51734988

Well yeah. Unlike the rest of this board im a high-functioning autistic, not a shit-my-pants-and-call-it-modern-art autistic.

>>51735007
I meant that story in particular. It was quite well known for a good long while. Enough that on /tg/, that story was the thing people thought of first when they thought of the game.

>>51734966

I get what you're saying, but if you want a male only space you make one with your buddies by telling your girlfriend you're going out, like a man does, you don't whine on the internet about how no-one will make one for you, like a pussy.

>>51735023
oh yeah, well, 2011 was a little while back.

>>51735049
yeah, you can say that with d&d sure, but how do I deal with the invasion of girls just loitering around the shop where I play 40k always annoying players. I appreciate y relationship with the people there! they just ut a big wet blanket on it.

>>51735094

Go play at a friend's house, like we used to always do. If you're gonna play in a public place, you'll have to deal with the public. Chances are good that one of your wargaming buddies has a sweet setup at his place.

>>51735170
I'm working on my own for that, but my point is that it isn't exactly a good thing for people to be driven out of a store by people who aren't even interested in the game.

File: eyebrow.gif (263KB, 480x479px) Image search: [Google]

263KB, 480x479px

>>51735049

Hey, I'm not the one who wants it, I'm just pointing out your idiocy. I've got different places I go to be around just groups of big, strapping, manly men.

mmm.

sorry, what was I talking about? I'm not gay.

>>51735211
If just the presence of woman is enough to drive you away, you have issues. If they're actually being a bother just tell them to stop.

I'd say the downturn happened around 2012, when the western culture war escalated drastically. The older generation of fa/tg/uys are currently on the losing end of that culture war, and as a result the mentality that led to the birth of the average reddit goer has started to overtake it and they've started infiltrating and following indoctrination protocol - assimilating and trying to convince others that the perverse turn things have taken is the norm and should be taken lying down. Just look at this thread, you wouldn't have seen this in 2009 /tg/.

There are a lot of forces working at once and it certainly didn't happen overnight, but inclusion and the push for mainstream appeal and diversity is definitely a damaging thing - if you look at 2012 in gaming you start to see the exact same things that have killed video gaming really taking root RIGHT NOW in our hobby. It's nearly a 100% mimic. The giants of the video game world getting bolder and greedier and making big moves for the sake of mainstream appeal that alienate long time fans and only appeal to wave riding bandwagoners who are just a short term cow to milk, the rising of kickstarter and crowdfunding to push out mediocre products or failures to deliver altogether, video game journalism and bloggers taking an extremely liberal stance and peddling Marxist ideology and identity politics in an entertainment medium and taking the hobby at gunpoint and trying to shock it away from it's roots by forcing attention to imagined issues.

You can replace video games with traditional games and it's an exact parallel. Video games haven't recovered and doubtfully will in the near future and we probably won't either.

>>51735211

Why are you being "driven out?" Can't you speak up for yourself? Ask them to be quiet while the game's in progress? Save their questions for later?
Maybe even ask the guy who runs the shop to put up a "quiet please" sign near the tables if you're really having trouble with it?

Imagine they were guys -- what would you do about their behavior then? Do that. (Unless it's "punch them," then you might need some anger management or something)

When casuals started getting into it. When "being a nerd" became a badge that bloggers and tumblrites pinned on themselves to enhance their status as a special snowflake.

>>51712020
They're entering into a renaissance after the 90s 2000s dark ages

>>51735359
>>51735389
1st, not just like a woman is there and everyone goes "oh no" and runs. the problem is that the people who come in are pretty obviously trying to be social chameleons.

bring in their either brothers or bfs armies (I ask, usually it isn't their own) constantly say stupid shit while mishandling the minis (I'll use one as an example, within a single game called warhammer 40k "star wars" at least 10 times, never got the name right, and broke a beautifully painted demon prince) constantly bring in food and drink and the staff don't stop them because "hurr pretty gurls"

I try to treat them like I would everyday assholes, but it ends up vilifying me. the worst part is that we usually have a few girls in who play eldar or tau who are fine.

>>51733702
it is you that is underage

I bet you play with women in your games you nu-mael

File: 1453051705144.png (40KB, 627x555px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 627x555px

>>51735473
yes yes yes yes yes this this he is right that gold metal bingo

File: about to no u man.jpg (24KB, 640x604px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 640x604px

>>51735509

Has anyone actually ran into games where the GM outright didn't allow women players into their RPG group?

>>51735563
I've been in plenty of groups that didn't have female players but not because they were barred from joining.

>>51735563
yes, in fact I was in one during the campaign that prompted the decision

>>51735600
Which was...?

>>51735667
4 girls 2 dudes including myself, it was an uprising in an orc kingdom and it was the worst game I have ever played. gm was fine. but the girls were fucking atrocious, Imagine 4 competing rules lawyers who don't know the rules who for some reason hate eachother and metagame the fuck out of things and use their real life vendettas as in game motivation and attempted to break the game any way they could despite not knowing the rules including one of them attempting to bribe the DM.

>>51735756
>4 competing rules lawyers who don't know the rules who for some reason hate eachother and metagame the fuck out of things and use their real life vendettas as in game motivation
sounds like half of the games I've ever been in

man, why do tabletop games attract so many fucking retards

>>51735790
no clue

>>51735790
btw when I say they hated each other, I mean they spent their predominant time making all of their "chaotic good" characters try to kill eachother off, and doom the party and the world by extension.

>>51732600
Nice going proving the guy right, shithead.

>>51732600
>he hasn't even read the sections on Hipsterism, Anti-Intellectualism or SJWs
It's nice how anon reacts to the document mocking people who mishandle their own personal issues by raging at boogeymen by raging that it must've been written by a conspiring Redditor.

>>51729389
>What is equality
Read your Aristotle, moron. Equality is by definition recognized between two things that are acknowledged as being different. The formula is literally "A and B, despite being different, are similar in aspect C and therefore deserve similar treatment in fashion D/dissimilar in aspect C and therefore do not deserve similar treatment in fashion D". Nobody worth listening to has ever claimed men and women were the SAME, people have claimed that they are similar in various ways (the most common being "their inherent humanity"), and therefore deserve similar treatment in various fashion (e.g. equal rights).

>>51730096
>playing "enhanced" edition
Well, there's your problem right there.

>>51734192
>tell me about one, just one way a woman helped the hobby, see I'm objective, I'm willing to listen to reason
>btw since the judgement is all mine and I hate women in the hobby so much I'll never acknowledge anything they do as helpful good luck with that m8 :^]

>>51712020
Video games. The grognard faggot autismo rules lawyer types especially just sit around playing video games instead. They play Blizzard/Valve gambling "lootdrop" bullshit games, or the less idiotic play video game RPGs. D&D peaked right before the explosions of RPG style games in the 90s.

>>51734192
>One of the largest RPG companies in history and one of the most popular games
There's an OSR thread going right now, you know. You could go there and pretend the eighties never passed with all the other bitter faggots.

>>51737234
>>51737333
>Expecting someone to read all that horribly formatted shit
I only looked at the first dozen pages

Still looks like redditshit masquerading as self-criticizing anon.

What is so so difficult for some of you to understand that occasionally we don't want to be around women, and that we prefer our games to be one of those activities where women aren't present? It's difficult to relax around women, who are always the first to object if banter comes up. Gaming should be a relaxing activity, I don't want to be walking on eggshells during the entire time because my description of brigands sacking a village sets off some girl's sensibility.

>>51737467
Look - straight out of the horse's mouth. Nu-/tg/ hates OSR and calls anyone who likes it bitter.
This is the depths we have sunk too. This is what happens when you challenge crossover with /cgl/ and /co/.

>>51737599
*don't challenge.
To elaborate, NOT telling those people who post LARPing stuff on /cgl/, and not telling tumblr-/co/ idiots to fuck off when they started coming here circa 2011 due to cartoon shit is what caused this board to lose it's dynamism. We're all now self censoring, and refusing to call out very basic things - like how women are in general terrible when they join a gaming group - because of feelings.

>>51737579
You have thinner skin than the whiny bitches you're complaining about.

>>51737643
The classic "Insult him because I don't have an argument" tactic. Go ahead and say the same thing about those buddies at the bar who have just come off working at the foundry and are grousing about their wives, I'm sure calling them more thin skinned than women will do you wonders.

>>51737608
>tumblr-/co/
What madness is this?

File: hello dark souls my old friend.jpg (19KB, 208x362px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 208x362px

>>51712020
When escapism stopped working because nobody would just let an elf game be an elf game anymore.

No, I don't want to play a game about your political issues. Why can't I just pretend to be an elf wizardman? And then run my own game and what do I get? They always wanna make it about the 'big issues' at present, even in their backstory. It's tiring, ya know?

>>51737811
Roleplaying games have been political since the very near beginning, it's just that until recently those were politics you agreed with so it felt natural rather than intrusion.

File: 20170214_203120.jpg (56KB, 202x379px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 202x379px

>>51715163
I want to be in the screenshot!

>>51714699
Haven't you got some trash cans to tip over? Why do you guys do it btw? Is it because they remind you of all the trash cans your resumes have been cast into?

>>51715494
Posers, as soon as an otherwise obscure subculture becomes mainstream huge numbers of people who were never part of it before pose as a part of it because it's suddenly "cool". Look at hippies, look at punks, the examples are endless. Why do people try so hard to deny this?

>>51715789
It kind of does, if companies see those games getting popular then they'll either make their games more like them or abandon their old games and make entirely new games that are like the popular ones. Life is a zero sum game dingus, there's not an infinite amount of everything for everyone, choices have to be made and some people inevitably lose out. Sure they could keep on playing older editions of the game they like, but isn't not having your game updated anymore still losing something?

>>51723022
No you're just stuck in the past grandpa! Everything always improves constantly and never gets worse, that's why the 1940s were so much better then the 1930s! More people like these games, therefore they're better!

>>51725270
What middle class person today is rich enough to even own the land they live on? That's what makes the comparison so ludicrous, you're still just peasants except you pay your dues to the bank/landlord rather then your local lord, wow what a difference. If you don't own land you're poor, end of story.

>>51737366

so why does that mean men aren't allowed to have spaces they go just to be with other men? You didn't include an actual argument, shithead.

>>51728810
But anon I've got an iphone! Who cares how difficult it is for me to pay my rent so I can keep a roof over my head, who needs that when you've got dick pics and netflix?

>>51738026

... what.

provide a fucking example or shut up.

>>51731895
>implying Hillary wasn't being controlled by russian hackers the whole time
"Concussion" HA! That was just a cover up for installing the brain implant, connect the dots people! They hacked Hillary! How else can you explain how monumentally retarded her campaign was?

>>51733438
>The fedora meme has changed dramatically over the years
Yeah it doesn't mean anything anymore, god I miss the days when it was just used to insult atheists and I am one! At least it meant something now it's just literally "u wear silly hat therefore u r wrong lol XD".

>>51738465
I got the impression she was drugged out of her mind the whole time, barely holding together; not sure if because of mind control, addiction, or health concerns, but I can totally see why someone would look at her and say "you know what, at least the other guy is stronger".

>>51737579

assert yourself. instead of acting like a fucking coward, tell the women who can't handle your brigands that if they don't like it they can leave.

>>51731895

pls tell me you don't believe the russian hacker BS. It was clearly a Bernie Bro.

(massive email link, basically the entire democratic party gets some shit slung their way... except bernie... I wonder whose supporters might have wanted that result?)

>>51737608
What if there's just people who like different things than you, and the things you're saying are pretty dumb? Does it hurt your feelings? Does it endanger your safe space? Does it in any way make it so you can't pretend to be a wizard?

>>51738488
There were some wikileak emails that talked about her having a drinking problem, apparently some people said that's the reason she didn't give a concession speech the night of her loss, she was too busy boozing. Sounds reasonable to me, why else would you do such an unprecedented thing after making a huge deal about how your opponent might do it and how horrible that would be? She probably needs to drown out the guilt over all the corruption and warmongering.

>>51738556
It was probably Seth Richards, why else would wikileaks talk so much about some random guy who got murdered and worked for the DNC? This isn't fucking rocket science.

>inb4 senators and presidents don't have men killed
Now who's being naive /tg/?

File: 1419723.jpg (65KB, 356x356px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 356x356px

>>51738439
>chainmail is a wargame
>war is an extension of politics by other means
;^)

>>51738696

I don't know whether I love or hate you.

File: Worst Buddha Ever.jpg (94KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 1920x1080px

>>51716034
>GURPS where you can nominally stat out everything but not play out anything at all

>>51737467
Ironic statement from someone pretending the nineties never passed.

>>51739177
Not even the same guy, but how was any of that "pretending the nineties never passed"? Did they have OSR threads in the nineties you could tell people to move over to?

>>51739263
>White Wolf
>Shadowrun
>at all relevant since the 90s

If you're not the same guy, why are you still strawmanning about OSR?

>>51739278
I know it might come as a shock to you (you might even want to take a seat), but not everyone who likes things you don't like is the same person. I know, it's wild, but MULTIPLE people, in fact, may not like what you like! It's a plague! A veritable plague!

Men behave differently with women around. It's a proven fact. I wouldn't say girls necessarily play RPGs differently but they certainly affect men and how they play. I will only let women play on games I play on roll20 because they Are a disembodied voice and not a woman.

File: 1486934040824.jpg (25KB, 400x500px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 400x500px

>>51714348
I'll support you guy, I agree. /tg/ tends towards the inclusive and all that, but consistently women have been the worst in the group, or at the very least, the source of most of the problems. If they themselves arent sarcastic the whole time and trying to do stuff in game to get laughs, then everyone is always vying for their attention, causing drama.

>>51738247

Dungeon World being printed did not make the ink melt off my AD&D core books.

>>51740520

I dunno, man, the way some fa/tg/uys rage over it, I think it might have happened to some of them.

>>51740230
>>51740195
>men behave differently with women around
>its the woman's fault!

File: gkpgi.jpg (6KB, 267x189px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 267x189px

>>51740720
They couldn't help it! Their lust overwhelmed them! Women should wear something to hide their faces, it's the only way to protect those poor men's innocence!

>>51740788
Hey, for all you know, for the amount of interaction these guys generally have with women they could be just panicking.

>>51714475
>underrated post

A sure sign that a poster is talking out of their ass is when they ignore intelligent replies making points against them.

>>51740720
I haven't had any problem when I play with women I wouldn't date.
Which makes sense, because I can't think of a woman that would want to date me, much less play D&D with me.
If it's all friends at the table, there's no problem. Dating within the party is a bad sign.

File: 1450584200416.jpg (13KB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 320x240px

>>51715736
>dat stealth shade
Nicely done anon