Pathfinder General /pfg/

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>>51685536
I know it's the source of a lot of cringe, but I can't help but enjoy the twisted fertility idol aspects.

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>the game I applied to as a joke is turning out to be more fun than the one I've been in for more than a year
>can't really get into the old game even though I still like the characters, and I'm having a hard time looking forward to it every week
>other game that had a character I really enjoyed playing has been on an unspoken hiatus for months now, with no sign of coming back

I can't say I'm upset, but at the same time I feel like I'm losing something important

>>51685656
A drow, out in the daylight without any sort of hood or other obscuring headwear? Imposter.

Been starting and stopping on a lot of projects lately, ending up sort of half finishing a lot of stuff. However I have recently got an idea that has caught my fancy.

The idea of a Bound class. Essentially it would have the following features:
>The player chooses an entity that is bound inside of them
>The player chooses how the entity was bound inside them
>The player chooses where the entity is bound inside of them

The idea is the character receives two tracks of abilities, which are Stable and Unstable releases.

An example would be the following:
>The player chooses Daemon bound, bound at birth, and bound to their stomach

So at birth someone forcibly trapped the demon inside of these stomach. Each of these aspects give you access to different Stable releases which are chosen as a talents class feature. Unstable releases are given as a track as you level up based on your entity and sealed place. Examples of stables releases for this would be the following:

>Stomach
Bite attack, breath weapon, bonus to fortitude saves, swallow whole
>Daemon bound
does wisdom damage on hit (soul damaging), soul trap, bonus to breaking objects

How it was bound also gives you a tract of abilities, these out of combat utility features.

Now finally Unstable Releases. A player can evoke their unstable releases for a temporary large boost in power, but invoke an ego feature like with intelligent magic items, what is bound in them taking over. This can reach a point where the person experiences character death because they pushed a bit too far and released the thing entirely.

For Origins and Locations I have all the general concepts down pact. Now I am struggling for entities. The classic would be to just grab different outsiders, however that seems a bit boring. Does anyone have further suggestions to bolster the roster besides outsiders. Ghosts would be another possible options. Maybe even a dragon? I am unsure.

>>51685701
What games? Roll20 or irl? Summary of the last thing you did in each?

>>51685713
So you want to bring Naruto to Pathfinder. Why?

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Earlier (>>51674442), I showcased a 3rd-level, Paizo + Spheres of Might build that showed that the most optimal possible build for a 3rd-level unarmed sage does nothing but spam the same action ad nauseam.

I have pieced together a 3rd-level sentinel/blacksmith this time, and the results are similar. The single best combat tactic of this build is to spam the same attack over and over, ignoring its more interesting options.

Presenting... Spheres of Might: Revenge of the Ordained Defender/Zweihander Sentinel.

Level: 3rd
Race: Oni-spawn tiefling (prehensile tail, scaled skin, underworld guide)
Class: Sentinel 1/blacksmith 2

Key Ability Scores: Strength 16+2, Wisdom 16+2
Key Traits: Empathic Diplomat (regional), Reactionary (combat)
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Extra Combat Talent

Combat Talents: 6 = 2 base + 1 sentinel + 2 blacksmith + 1 Extra Combat Talent
• Equipment (free, Weapons, Melee Weapon Training, martial focus always dedicated to this): Critical Hammer (free), Heavy Arms Training, Polearm Master
• Guardian (free)
• Lance: Advancing Carnage, Advancing Carnage, Calculated Violence

Maintenance: Sharpen Weapons: The blacksmith and his allies gain a +2 bonus to all damage rolls made with manufactured weapons.
Smithing Insight: Practiced Power: The blacksmith gains a +1 competence bonus to attack and damage rolls made with hammers.

Key Equipment: Masterwork full plate (1,650 gp), masterwork Large lucerne hammer (330 gp), both possibly self-crafted with Profession (blacksmith) and skilled craftsman

Numbers:
• Initiative: 8 = 4 Wisdom modifier from Wise Reflexes + 2 underworld guide + 2 Reactionary
• AoOs per Round: 5 = 1 base + 4 Wisdom modifier from Combat Reflexes and Wise Reflexes
• Attack Bonus: 3 BAB + 4 Strength modifier + 1 competence + 1 Equipment sphere dedication + 1 masterwork enhancement = +10
• Damage: 3d6 Large lucerne hammer + 6 Strength modifier multiplied + 1 competence + 2 sharpen weapons = 3d6+9, 19-20/×3 with Critical Hammer

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>>51685736

This character is fairly durable, between high HD, extra hit points from the Guardian sphere, temporary hit points from sentinel's reserve, rock-solid saving throws (including Wisdom-based Reflex), and full plate. Offense is where this character shines.

Every round, the character does nothing but go up to an enemy (possibly with a charge) and whack them with the giant hammer. Attack bonus +10, damage 3d6+9, 19-20/×3. If that hits, the Lance sphere, Advancing Carnage, Advancing Carnage, and Calculated Violence trigger, hopefully generating more and more attacks with which to smack down enemies.

The character can also contribute through fully-threatening reach and Combat Reflexes, and some party support from the blacksmith's maintenance... but these are passive effects that do not influence active combat options.

The character has some interesting combat options, such as the Guardian sphere's challenge and the Lancer sphere's impale... but why bother with them? The Guardian challenge expends martial focus and move actions, and the Lance impale deprives the character of a weapon. Better to dedicate the martial focus to the Equipment sphere for that extra point of accuracy, so as to ensure that each attack lands and the Lancer talents actually trigger.

Again, it is rather disappointing how some of the most optimal builds in Spheres of Might do nothing but spam the same combo ad nauseam.

At 4th-level, the character takes another level in blacksmith and takes the Power Attack equipment talent, of course. The build still does nothing but spam its single best attack.

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>>51685740

The value of the Lance sphere's impale is currently ambiguous, because it fails to clarify whether the penalties from impale replace the grappling penalties, or stack on top of them.

If impale replaces the usual grappling penalties, then it is probably not a good ability "out of the box." If impales stacks with those usual grappling penalties, then I will concede that if you have only one viable target on the field, then it would indeed be better to impale.

Then again, that is not quite a new option; it is more that your usual super-combo is inapplicable, so you settle for the next best thing.

The one thing I find most infuriating here is the Heavy Arms Training talent. It is no-brainer for most builds, be they archers or melee beatsticks; why would you ever pass up a talent that improves your 1d8 weapon to 2d6, or your 1d12/2d6 weapon to 3d6?

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>>51685749

Moving on, here is what I believe is the ultimate 3rd-level unarmed sage, again using only Paizo and Spheres of Might sources. This build works best in a game wherein the retraining rules are available, so as to retrain away Extra Combat Talent feats, but the build works just fine even without them.

This build also does nothing but spam the same combo over and over. I do not understand why the writers of Spheres of Might chose to write talents in such a way that some of them could be stacked into a single bread-and-butter combo that could then be spammed repeatedly.

Level: 3rd
Race: Human (heart of the slums)
Class: Sage

Key Ability Scores: Dexterity 16+2, Wisdom 16
Traits: Child of the Streets (social), Empathic Diplomat (regional), possibly Reactionary (combat) if a drawback is taken
Feats: Combat Reflexes (human bonus), Extra Combat Talent, Extra Combat Talent

Combat Talents:
• Equipment: Finesse Fighting (free)
• Open Hand (free, focus is always dedicated to this): Lunging Strikes, Snap Kick, Sweeping Kicks
• Scoundrel: Dirty Mugging, Playing Dirty

Key Equipment: Gloves of Larceny (2,500 gp), Ioun Torch (75 gp)

Attack Bonuses:
• Unarmed Strike: +5 = 1 BAB + 4 Dexterity modifier
• Sleight of Hand Bonus: +18 = 3 ranks + 4 Dexterity modifier + 3 class skill + 1 trait + 2 racial + 5 competence
• Trip Bonus: 7+2d6 = 3 sage level + 4 Dexterity modifier + 2d6 chi gong

~

What happens on this character's turn? They go up to an enemy and perform a dirty trick combat maneuver. Because of the Scoundrel sphere and chi gong, they roll +18+2d6, and probably blind an enemy for a few rounds. The opponent must spend a standard action to remove the blindness.

Landing the dirty trick triggers Dirty Mugging. They make an attack of opportunity against the foe. The sage's attack bonus is +5, but it will probably hit a blinded target. If the sage hits, they deal 1d6 + 2 + Strength modifier damage, plus 2d6 from chi gong, plus 1 nonlethal from Open Hand.

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>>51685758

If this attack hits, Sweeping Kicks triggers. They make a trip attempt, rolling +7+2d6. This will probably succeed, since the target is blinded (penalties to AC apply to CMD).

If the trip attempt is successful, Snap Kick triggers. That is another attack at +5, again dealing 1d6 + 2 + Strength modifier damage, plus 2d6 from chi gong, plus 1 nonlethal from Open Hand.

It is a little luck-dependent, but the payoff is impressive by non-DSP standards: a blinded and prone enemy, along with two reasonably-damaging attacks, all from one standard action.

All of this, by the way, is if the sage opts to *not* use Stunning Fist. If the sage used that, then the enemy could very well be stunned for a round.

~

What happens on the target's turn? It is screwed. The blindness will take a standard action to clear. Standing from prone as a move action will provoke an attack of opportunity. The enemy could also be stunned from Stunning Fist.

What happens on other enemies' turns? If they are melee-focused and they lack reach, then they will provoke attacks of opportunity from the sage. The sage can trip them with a +7+2d6 bonus, and a successful trip provokes a further attack of opportunity. Woe to them if the sage activates Stunning Fist.

The sage is quite frail against enemies who can attack from 10+ feet away, but Manipulate Flow and Sage's Riposte can offer some respite.

~

It is a shame how effective such spam is.

At 4th-level, the character uses retraining to acquire Playing Dirty as a regular combat talent, and takes Focused Sphere (Scoundrel). This allows them to charge and then perform the dirty trick combo, significantly improving mobility. The sage's cripple class feature also causes them to deal Strength damage with each instance of chi gong damage.

>>51685713
Right now the locations I am working on are:
>Arm
>Eye
>Heart
>Stomach
>Spine
>Mind

And the origins:
>At Birth (happened at birth)
>Punishment (as in you were punished by being its cage)
>Sacred Duty (you were assigned to do it)
>Accident (it just sort of happened)
>Chosen (it chose you)
>Tricked (you tricked it into you, binding yourself)
>Inherited (you were given it by someone)

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>>51685766

A 3rd-level "pure martial" character can, in fact, have a variety of options to them in combat.

We have already seen a basic framework for such a thing: Path of War, or, if we are being more accurate to its origins, the Tome of Battle.

Both Path of War and the Tome of Battle have serious balance issues within their disciplines and maneuvers, but the core conceits are good: you have a limited number of maneuvers readied, you must carefully ration out your standard actions and swift/immediate actions, you must intelligently expend maneuvers, and, when you are tapped out, you must weigh between resorting to regular attacks or activating a recovery mechanic.

There are very few 3rd-level Path of War and Tome of Battle builds that spam a single "best combo" again and again and again, because the framework prevents them from doing so.

In Spheres of Might, on the other hand, it seems that many optimal builds actually *do* just spam a single "best combo" ad nauseam. This is what happens when sphere talents are a mix of horizontal/flexibility upgrades and direct vertical/power upgrades; it is more optimal to take only the latter and stack them onto a single at-will mega-combo.

I am not saying that these builds are "broken" or "overpowered." They are only somewhat stronger than a Paizo-only barbarian rushing in with a greatsword and Power Attack.

What I am trying to convey is that it is so disappointing that optimal builds for these classes (blacksmith, sage, sentinel) ignore their menu of interesting combat options, and instead spam the same "best combo" repeatedly. I was under the impression that Spheres of Might was supposed to make optimal martial characters more interesting, not force them into at-will spammers.

That said, I have yet to crunch out optimal builds for the armiger and the striker. Those two classes have built-in class features for variety, so I hope they can encourage mixed tactics in combat.

>>51685766
Dude, I think the last thread got pruned because of this. Let's not get another thread deleted.

>>51685713
There's the classic Goa'uld type critter, I suppose it would be a larval aberration? Some kind of mega-plague could work as well, bound in a person so it doesn't spread, but maybe it starts leaking or affecting the person acting as a containment vessel.

I like the idea of binding an abstract concept like an emotion, maybe the person just wanted to be rid of their anger but could only siphon it off into another portion of their body, or some wizards removed their empathy collectively and stuck it in some poor apprentice so they could continue their research unimpeded.

There's also substances of course, things along the lines of magically plutonium. Think along the lines of Mordite in the Dresden Files.

>>51685771
Fucking christ man just put it in a pastebin, sheesh.

It's better for the thread since you aren't dumping massive fucking walls of text, and it's better for the actual Devs because a pastebin is gonna last longer than a goddamn thread will.

>>51685733
This sort of story exists in a lot more than just Naruto. There are examples in Dungeons & Dragons, such as in one of the Dragonlance Novels Films do it as well, Pirated of the Caribbean comes to mind.

>>51685784
>There's the classic Goa'uld type critter, I suppose it would be a larval aberration? Some kind of mega-plague could work as well, bound in a person so it doesn't spread, but maybe it starts leaking or affecting the person acting as a containment vessel.
I very much like these conceptually. I want to move away from just outsiders, likely going to condense them into a general "Fiend" binding.

Get a trip already for fuck sakes.

>>51685793
The concept, sure. Your execution of the idea is ripped straight out of your favorite Japanese anime.

Tonight's Pendragon Institute Session (Team CARP): http://pastebin.com/SzEEm1u5

Tonight's Rise of the Jade Regent Session: http://pastebin.com/eH4sU4CB

>>51685793
Hell, it was the lore for Trundle in LoL before it got retconned. His entire troll tribe was infected with a disease, which they were surviving due to their regeneration, but in horrible pain. So they enact a ritual to dump all their disease into the runt of the village. Unfortunately, the disease was also massively stimulating their regeneration, and the tribe eventually dies off. Trundle survives however, but at the cost of getting Deadpool'd (massively ugly, massive regeneration).

>>51685820
DHB actually posted his favorite anime a few threads back. Naruto isn't on there.

>>51685793
Your concept is straight from Naruto though...also where is it in pirates of the Caribbean?

>>51685867
Probably how Davy Jones's heart is a separate object.

>>51685867
Tia Dalma and Davy Jones both have aspects of it. Tia Dalma is forcibly trapped inside a human body but knows what she is. Davy Jones has his whole heart gimmick as >>51685885 said.

Are any of the Horrors X supplements any good? Or were they mostly disappointing?

>>51685885
But that's nothing like getting some demon implanted into you. Nobody ever gets a supernatural force implanted into them in PotC

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>>51685536
>praising Asmodeus
>not praising Groetus

Looks like someone's not prepared for the End Times!

>>51685867
The particular combination is.

Let's have a different example, as >>51685784
suggested.

In this case a:
>Abberation Parasite, Bound as Punishment, Bound in the Mind
In this case you a criminal who forcibly had a larval aberration put into his skull.

>>51685905
But they're completely different. Calypso is bound into a human form, she doesn't have an entity bound within her. Davy Jones tore his own heart out and gave it to her promising always to love the sea and shit.

>>51685845
I don't know who he is, nor do I care. What annoys me are people who want to rip off their preferred shows and games blatantly and try to supplant the show/character's "main feature" into my medieval fantasy worlds.

The group I'm forced to run with used to do this constantly. I'm tired of trying to balance Sol Badguys, Claymores, and any number of other shits against base-book classes. The aforementioned people get mad when they aren't gods, and the base-book players have less fun due to the bitching. Now they've resorted to just outright cheating base-book/expansion character builds since they couldn't be the god they dreamed of being.

What he's trying to do is just place Naruto into Pathfinder, which is why I called him out on it. You can make something inspired by the idea without plagiarizing it.

>>51685844
I hate the retcon, for what that's worth. Made the character infinitely less interesting and was an excuse to remove the "ugly" from him.

>>51685905
But you could at least try to be more original with your implementation.

I might be filling in for a player in a Skulls and Shackles campaign. Level 4, I think their party is a Swashbuckler, Druid, Kineticist and Alchemist.

Give me a nice concept to fit in between them for the one session.

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Hey all, the lancer update's been made, we're working on another preview, still up in the air about what to show, but I'm hoping it'll at least be the scout sphere to help give some fun stuff.

>>51685769
I can see a fair amount of abilities for each location, except spine and mind.
The obvious for spine is flight but having abilities that mechanically tie to the spine might be too limiting, but I'm pretty stumped with mind. Considering there's already going to be an ego mechanic, mind might cross to much into that.

For binding origins, punishment and duty feel to close together it terms of concept. It might be better to merge the two, while I can see a more distinct "line" with the other origins.

enjoying unchained fighter btw, good stuff

>>51685935
That was Davy's downfall, loving shit.

>>51685934
Your "variations" are purely for flavor and offer no other reason for existing. In short, you put them in to avoid being called out for the Naruto transplant.

>>51685728
IRC games, actually, since I cannot convince anyone I know IRL to even look at TTRPGs, let alone commit to a game. Old game just really needs some life injected in it, everyone's always so tired by the time sessions start, and people just seem to be on autopilot sometimes.

>>51685948
Nice
Do you know what's on the table / what are you allowed to talk about?

>>51685935
>Calypso is bound into a human form, she doesn't have an entity bound within her.
I actually played around with this idea too, but found it difficult to incorporate a corruption mechanic where the entity could be released at some point when you are in fact the entity.

>>51685941
The particular example I gave was similar to Naturo. However in numerous combinations you could come up with many things, such as what I posted >>51685934.

Half the reason I want to diversify the entity portfolio is to move away from sapient fiends bound, or at least condense fiends into a single choice instead of having individual species of fiend be a choice.

Other combinations:
>Disease, Bound as a Sacred Duty, Bound to your Heart
would be similar to what Trundle has in >>51685844

>Fiend bound to your arm, bound by a trick
is The Devil Went Down to Georgia in a way

Is /pfg/ always this autistic in "speaking" with other people?

>>51685934
Maybe you should make it as an archetype of the Avowed? I don't know if that's frowned upon, 3pp of 3pp, but you could probably drum up some interest that way.

>>51685955
>Naruto is the first and only form of media dealing with possession.

>>51685736
>>51685740
>>51685749
>>51685758
>>51685766

Hey, could you please use a tripcode so I can better identify you?

>>51686006
>first and only

Been through this already. The thread isn't even moving so keeping up shouldn't be an issue.

>>51685955
>Your "variations" are purely for flavor and offer no other reason for existing.
I am unsure what you mean.

Do you mean for variety of entity or location bound?

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>>51685749

Addendum: If you are a weapon-usnig, Strength-based, Spheres of Might character, your weapon of choice should be the lucerne hammer, full stop. Absolutely no other weapon can compare.

Take the Equipment sphere and choose Heavy Arms Training as your free talent. Then, follow up with Polearm Mastery and Critical Hammer.

You now threaten all enemies within 10 squares using a 3d6/19-20/×3 weapon. How can anything else compare for a weapon-using, Strength-based character? As a small bonus, if you like to sunder armor, because you are a blacksmith, the lucerne hammer also grants you a +2 bonus to sunder medium or heavy armor.

This could perhaps stand to change.

>>51685948

I can see that the splash-attacking now requires dedication, that impale's penalty stacks with grappling, and that the additional attacks are now at a -3 penalty rather than a -2 penalty.

As I go about updating the build in >>51685736, are there any other notable updates to the Lancer sphere?

>>51685948

Thanks, Jolly. Really enjoying the Striker updates so far. I can kind of do a Burst/Gold Burst thanks to some of the revisions.

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>>51685784
JAFFA, KREE!

>>51686017
You know, with your logic, you could say that Avowed is Naruto too. The ninjas did contracts with supernatural beings for power, after all.

>>51686017
Oh, back when you said >>51685820
Right. So the execution of something that does not have a word of actual execution, just DHB's early sounding board.

>>51686018
What would the Yeerk from Animorphs be? Chosen Aberration Mind?

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>>51685984
I've been having a certain someone look over my unreleased spheres, which are Barroom, Dual Wielding, and Wrestling. As far as classes go, only the Scholar looks good to go, as Conscript (build a martial) is still in a rough place at the moment.

Barrage got a huge revamp, I should really post that over too.

Aside from that, Sentinel was just reposted with its new mechanics, it's a little weaker now.

At the moment I'm getting feedback from that one playtest game that's going on that's been really helpful too.

>>51686021
Yep, those and a few other misc changes are about, hoping to keep things more balanced since I don't think old lancer had a dedication bonus. As far as I know of, there shouldn't be any other large differences.

>>51686026
Combo rhythm was important to me because it allowed things like that, and because it's cool. Also AC bonus clarifies it grows with level so you can't just pop in for con to AC.

Sentinel's bonus temp HP from reserve were also reduced and are now based on sentinel level, not BAB to make the class less dipable.

>>51685953
>For binding origins, punishment and duty feel to close together it terms of concept. It might be better to merge the two, while I can see a more distinct "line" with the other origins.
I can see what you mean here. The origin is however not meant to give you powers.

What they do now is the following:
>extra class skills
>utility Ex abilities
Basically powers based on social situation. Sacred duty gives you stuff like contacts and an allowance, Punishment gives things based on being a criminal.

Though consolidating them could make sense.

>The obvious for spine is flight but having abilities that mechanically tie to the spine might be too limiting, but I'm pretty stumped with mind. Considering there's already going to be an ego mechanic, mind might cross to much into that.
I struggled with spine as well. At the moment what mind does is mainly espionage based things like Read thoughts and divination based effects as well as telekinesis.

>>51685948
More spheres would be nice. The classes are fine, but at this point I'm really just waiting on Conscript, the one that will probably be last to show. Additional spheres at least further increases the interactions in the system for people to look at and talk about.

>>51685993
>Fiend bound to your arm, bound by a trick
That's also basically the Slayer from DFO.

Instead of a ghost, how about an actual person's soul? Maybe you wanted to save someone from damnation, and every once in a while they just want to experience life directly again. Or perhaps you're a prison for a necromancer that they didn't want killed as he could just be brought back.

>>51686039
It's the implementation, not the concept, that matters. Remember, keeping up is simple.

>>51686018
You want to pretend the "location" and "manner" are relevant, when they aren't. Anything you want to say is restricted by location I can replicate anywhere else for any reason, logical or otherwise. And for the manner to which it's bound, that's utterly meaningless. The being won't care how it was lodged in your ass and won't impart specific ass-related abilities just because of that fact. The abilities are based on the being, not the location.

And that's why your variations are meaningless and serve no purpose other than trying to obfuscate the fact that you just decided to utterly rip Naruto implementation for an age-old concept. You had other methods to go with, but instead, you went with the tired and trite one.

>>51686095
>that's utterly meaningless
M A G I C
A
G
I
C

You blithering idiot.

>>51686057
Jolly, that certain someone (me) helping you with the unreleased Spheres is also a member of that playtest game. Just so you know.

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>>51686057

I simply cannot see anyone using the Guardian sphere's challenge at all. A move action and expended martial focus are a huge cost, and the penalty of the challenge is not anywhere near enough to warrant that cost.

This greatly undermines the sentinel as well.

D&D 4e's defenders place marks in a very action economy-efficient manner, and Path of War's aegis likewise marks enemies without burning move actions. Why does the Guardian sphere's challenge have to be saddled with such a huge cost for a tiny penalty?

>>51686095
Anon, it's kinda weird that you're so hyper focused on this, when there are countless other things that fit this just as well as Naruto does. It's like you don't know of anything other than Naruto.

>>51686095
>Naruto DEFINITELY did it this way first
>that means doing it that way is BAD

Y'know, for all the flack it gets, the series DID have actually cool ideas in the early stages, right? Even though it was already ripping off other shit, it did collect some neat concepts into a bundle of wasted potential.

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>>51686090
We want to show some of the less combat orientated ones, like trap and scout more than the others to show that it isn't ALL about combat. It's mostly intended to be about combat, as was our mission statement, but we're at least trying to shift focus to try and meet the requests of the people who have been commenting on our docs.

Also if you can playtest the material in a live game, please do. I'm cool with white room theorycraft, and I still suggest you do that if you want, but actual playtest data is invaluable due to the haphazard nature of games, the variables included, and everything like that.

Plus I can admit I've actually written at least one talent based on playtest data for 'things I'd like this sphere to do' involving a certain striker tiefling.

>>51686137
Awesome, keep up the good work.

>>51686139
This is fair; I'm not lead on guardian sphere, but honestly I can agree that at the moment, the guardian sphere takes too long to set up. I'll bring this up to the others, as I agree at the moment a swift would be a fair cost to set up a challenge.

>>51686095
>You want to pretend the "location" and "manner" are relevant, when they aren't. Anything you want to say is restricted by location I can replicate anywhere else for any reason, logical or otherwise.
I mean, yes if it was implemented like that. It would be odd implementing something like Swallow Whole, a bite attack, or the like with Eye as the location for example Well, Eyebite does exist.

>And for the manner to which it's bound, that's utterly meaningless. The being won't care how it was lodged in your ass and won't impart specific ass-related abilities just because of that fact.
Right now the manner of binding doesn't effect the powers it gives you. It gives you Class Skills and utility Ex abilities. In an earlier post I described the difference between Punishment and Sacred Duty and what they would give you. Punishment would give you class skills like Knowledge (local), Stealth, or Sleight of Hand (right now I am working on 'pick 2 from short list'). Sacred Duty could impart Knowledge (Nobility), Knowledge (History), etc.

>The abilities are based on the being, not the location.
I mean, if I build the class that way sure, but that isn't how I have been building it thus far.

>And that's why your variations are meaningless and serve no purpose other than trying to obfuscate the fact that you just decided to utterly rip Naruto implementation for an age-old concept. You had other methods to go with, but instead, you went with the tired and trite one.
I am really not sure what you mean here. I am unsure why you are focused on Naruto.

>>51686090
>Instead of a ghost, how about an actual person's soul? Maybe you wanted to save someone from damnation, and every once in a while they just want to experience life directly again. Or perhaps you're a prison for a necromancer that they didn't want killed as he could just be brought back.
That is also an interesting though.

>>51686139
If you're 2hu, your personal sentiments on the sentinel druid are completely unfounded. Play an actual game.

>>51686145
When your release example is "demon bound to your stomach" that's going to happen, kid. It's clear where the inspiration came from and every attempt from then forward was just sidestepping that fact without actually changing how it works.

>>51686134
Read. Follow along. Comprehend. Context is your friend and I suggest you use it.

>>51686160
I actually didn't say Naruto's use of the trope was inherently bad. What I did say was that blatantly ripping from Naruto and putting in your game unchanged was boring, uninspired, and will likely "crash" the game at some point.

>>51686177
Sentinel in Spheres of Might, not Sentinel Druid, you putz.

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>>51686165

The Guardian sphere's challenge requiring dedication is something I can see. Expending martial focus, on the other hand, is too much.

I have a major complaint about the one "noncombat" sphere so far, Scoundrel. It falls into the Path of War trap of having skills feed into direct combat actions. My build in >>51685758 raises Sleight of Hand very high so as to almost always succeed on dirty trick and steal maneuvers, which then chains into the rest of the build.

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>>51686174
What if I want to have one or two main spirits, then several lesser spirits bound to me, all vying for control?

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>>51686210
That's understandable, as we've seen you can get it very high, and skills as CMB is a slippery slope, so we'll take that into advisement. As that IS my sphere, I can speak about it with absolute heroic authority, so that'll probably get changed.

>>51686209
I meant the 4e sentinel druid, you blithering retard. He bases his assumptions only on theorycrafting and not on actual gameplay. In that context his opinions are utterly useless.

>>51686203
Anon, maybe it was chosen at random? Maybe you're the only person here who's so focused on that one example given that you linked immediately to your favorite anime? Nope, you gotta be right, you thought Naruto, so DHB is ripping off Naruto wholesale.

>>51686230
Where did he ever say the 4e Sentinel Druid, you dribbling idiot?

>>51686244
His personal opinion of sentinel druids is well known and he made mention of 4e, you pathetic three-chinned warbling autist.
And his personal opinion of them is wrong because he only knows theorycrafting and doesn't know how to play them in an actual game.

>>51686062
>Origins give extra class skills and Utility Ex abilities.
Gotcha, so nor as big as I imagined. Those being separate makes more sense now.

So the idea for this class, to summarize and simplify, would to have two sort of "path" options. Like if a class had Oracle mysteries and Sorcerer bloodlines. The modular part (which could be binding place, or the creature bound) and a static lv progress point (which would be the other). While also having the origin giving you less, but still something.

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>>51686229
And changed to how it is in the draft version, there's a lot of stuff that we've changed in the draft that hasn't made it to the preview for some reason or another. I've had a lot to work on aside from just SoM for example.

>>51685536
Do tieflings with their level 2 SLA qualify for Mystic Theurg after Wiz 1 and Cleric 3?

>>51686174
>if the class was built that way

It is built that way. You can pretend it isn't, but every feature you're using depends entirely on what the being is and what hole they shoved it into. That last part is idiotic, since I can easily duplicate any "locked" ability anywhere.

Bite is a bad example, for the record. Mouths can appear anywhere for any reason, because magic and because creatures like this already exist. Gibbering Mouthers are a thing, afterall, and dimensional beings aren't going to be bound by paltry expectations of where things should be. I can do a bite attack with my heel if I felt like it since that's where the creature was bound and it has a gaping maw.

The "focus" is because you chose to show your hand from the beginning as wanting to supplant Naruto into Pathfinder, and I have a long history of trying to accommodate that level of faggotry in my games. My frustration stems from the fact that your fervent defense of the concept stems from your narrow ability to understand what you're actually doing, positive that you've put in enough "balancing points" and "variation" to not be an annoyance. My experience is to the contrary.

>>51686240
Randomly decided to use Naruto's explicit implementation? I doubt it. You could learn a lot about someone trying to describe a concept based on their initial attempts.
In any case, it's clear you're only really interested in a positive reception of your dull idea. Carry on.

>>51686332
No, SLAs no longer qualify thanks to FAQ if memory serves

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>>51686229

I would personally consider CMB/CMD to be a lost cause and drop everything CMB/CMD related from Spheres of Might. I would instead focus on abilities that force saving throws from enemies. Fortitude and Reflex can save an enemy from being knocked prone, driven back, disarmed, or what-have-you. You could even replace feints and other forms of combat trickery with abilities that force Will saving throws to realize the deception.

Saving throws scale more predictably and consistently than CMD ever will.

>>51686230

I have been, and still am, in many an online campaign. I do not mean to boast here, but the builds I create almost always work out in actual play in the same way I had envisioned them on paper.

You must understand that with a refined enough ability to predict how "typical" gameplay will unfold, an "on paper" build is how the build will work as a baseline. The GM can pit the build against highly specific counters all they want, but that merely goes to show the strength of the build; the wackier the enemies the GM has to use to present a challenge, the greater a sign it is that the build is an outlier.

As for the 4e druid (sentinel), it is significantly better off as a hybrid class, since its hybrid version preserves many of its class features and sidesteps the awful Combined Attack encounter power. Only the most bizarre and exotic of house rules can change this.

>>51686344
That would have been neat.

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>>51686346
At this stage in the process, that isn't really too likely. Saves are just as swingy in places, so while we'd love to reinvent the wheel, we are working with a system in place.

>>51686343
Except the details of stomach don't fit Naruto particularly well, and he's apparently been working on this for awhile.
Just because you can come up with criticism doesn't mean your criticism holds water.

>>51686346
>Mnyeh mnyeh, CMB is haaaaard

That's what the system is there to help fix ya shitbag.

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So, /pfg/, my character is undead. What are some good items/spells/abilities that will stop me from instantly dying when my HP reaches 0? Alternatively, is there some way my party can bring me back if I do get dusted? Normal resurrection magic won't work - or at best will bring me back as a normal human again

>>51686343
>. You can pretend it isn't, but every feature you're using depends entirely on what the being is and what hole they shoved it into. That last part is idiotic, since I can easily duplicate any "locked" ability anywhere.
I mean I can't pretend it is either because I haven't written the class in its entirety yet.

>Bite is a bad example, for the record. Mouths can appear anywhere for any reason, because magic and because creatures like this already exist.
However it doesn't make sense for you to gain a bite attack if you have eye as the location and let's say fey as the entity. There is no thematic reason for it to give you a bite.

>Gibbering Mouthers are a thing, afterall, and dimensional beings aren't going to be bound by paltry expectations of where things should be.
If you have a gibbering mouther bound inside you that would make sense. An aberration entity possibly could give you bite no matter where it was bound.

> I can do a bite attack with my heel if I felt like it since that's where the creature was bound and it has a gaping maw.
Anon I really am unsure if I am understanding you because you are making claims like the class is already written.

>The "focus" is because you chose to show your hand from the beginning as wanting to supplant Naruto into Pathfinder, and I have a long history of trying to accommodate that level of faggotry in my games.
I mean you're painting me as wanting to force naruto into games. The example I gavewould apply to naruto, but I have given others.

I really don't understand what you're getting at because you're acting like the class is written already. I'm confused.

>>51686423
He's being a retard, simple as that.

>>51686346
>I judge how good I am by the monsters my GM makes me face

It could be that he just hates you as an individual. Plenty of GMs get sick of the uppity "my build is so good guys" type of player that they take pleasure in sticking to you as directly as possible without terribly impacting the rest of the party.

Just a thought.

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>>51686165

>a certain striker tiefling

I-I got noticed!
Woo!

>>51686412
You'll be needing something for Inflict Wounds if nobody you know has Channel Negative Energy.

>>51686423
It's probably hard for him to think about what he's typing while jacking off to SasukeXNaruto r34.

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>>51686452
Hey, thanks for playtesting for me! I really appreciate it. Some of the changes to sentinel were because of Wendy too, some from feedback, and some were from some 'WHITE ROOM TESTING' *BOO* *HISS*

I'm not in charge of armiger, so those notes were passed along to its dev, since I'm not making direct changes to someone else's content.

>>51686346
Sure they do.
You say Combined Attack is god awful, but if your vaunted intelligence is to be believed, then you would've used optimal positioning and tagteamed with your allies. Despite the fact you're bound into the class feature, it's actually one of its best features.
You should know how to use it, but it seems like you have no idea how to play the class.

No houserules need to change it because it doesn't need changing. You'd know this if you actually played.

>>51686472
Got that covered. Healing isn't the issue, but having some sort of buffer state between 0 HP and instantaneous destruction would be nice, or else have some way to return.

>>51686423
This is why I said your class is based on the being, yet you claim it isn't. You just said yourself that it wouldn't make sense for a fey to bite something (nevermind the fact that there are plenty of "bitey" fey creatures -- not all of them are Tinkerbell). The location of the creature isn't going to matter because it's the creature imparting the ability, not the location.

>>51686432
Ah, yes, the person experienced with stupid forced concepts is the one being retarded. Right.

>>51686477
You caught me.

>>51685771
Hey 2hufag, ever heard of Touhou Side Story? I want to know your opinion on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS9kNLOP_h0&t=34s

>>51686479
Watching Wendy go ROCKET PUNCH through a crowd of goblins was intensely satisfying.

Why can't you be in charge of Armiger? It is my favourite class, but I don't think Stoeckle likes me.

>>51683890
hey there, I also participated in the hunter playtest

I've gotta say that the double five foot step is extraordinarily good in terms of flanking and close combat, as basically we could've managed to flank the beast patients with relative ease (if we had a bit more coordination)

i played the base hunter, with a bootleg kirkhammer (longsword with change weapon damage type + upping the damage tricks)with a concentration on power attack/vital, the saw hunter badge, great lake and blood rupture runes

if i've got one comment, i've gotta say that the blood ministration combined with an attempt to become as hard as possible to hit gave me incredible staying power, as i believe i tanked around maybe 90-110ish damage, with a max health of 81 and during the whole time, i never dipped below half health

i really did enjoy playing the class, although i never got an opportunity to use create opening or the immediate five foot step since we got a moon beast dropped on our poor asses

although the best part about this is when the charred hunter detonated himself, and with his initial explosion, exploded the poor fuckin' kid carrying around 9 kegs of black powder, and therefore blowing everybody to kingdom come

What's your biggest disappointment in Pathfinder? The time your hopes got highest only to drop when more was revealed?

>>51686526
>implying my hopes have ever been high for Shitfinder

>>51686526
I've always assumed the worst of Pathfinder through its entire lifespan, and it's almost never as bad as I expect.

But the standout exception is when I tried Swashbuckler thinking that they'd finally made a DEX martial worth playing.

>>51686526
That the game still exists.

>>51686509
>The location of the creature isn't going to matter because it's the creature imparting the ability, not the location.
How it is designed right now both entity and location play a role.

Let us use bite again as an example. One can qualify for the Bite release using any of the following:
>Stomach seal location
>Daemon Entity
>Aberration Entity

Basically every release had multiple ways you can qualify, both from your location and the entity. It gives you a wider range of releases you qualify for.

Let's say you want things like a gaze attack, aura sight, true seeing, etc., but you wanted to be bound with a disease entity. You would choose Eye as the location because they qualify you for those releases where as the disease does not.

Both the Entity and the Location influence what you qualify for.

>>51686526
Discovering ROTJR ended up just being bog standard Burnt Offerings.

>>51686570
No, no, you're wrong. He's from the future, he knows that the class is just a forced Naruto clone, and you're wrong, and it's shit.

>>51686526
Molthune GM never showing up for the second session.

>>51686589
What the fuck is ROTJR?

>>51686622
Return of the Jedi Remastered

>>51686589
>It's exactly as advertised so far

What did you expect? It's gonna take time to really rev up anyway.

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>>51686524
I heard about that, the GM mentioned something about 'no longer doing maps with choke points'.

And I like armiger myself, it's probably my favorite class that I didn't write, second overall with first being the striker. I'm giving him the feedback from the group, so keep sending it!

>>51686412
What kind of undead are you? And what class?

>>51685955
duck off, not everything is a mature reference you complete cockfag.

When I first read it, my first thought was something like Parasite, or WH40K Darmonhosts, or the Kala'Cha from Neverwinter 2

>>51686589
I mean... yeah? It's what the GM advertised, Burnt Offerings followed by the entirety of Jade Regent.

>>51686412
False Life + Greater False Life and anything that gives Temp HP apply to undead.

>>51686526
Disappointment? Easy -- Pathfinder utterly hates multiclassing and forces you to pick prebuild "hybrid" classes instead if you want to be an effective mashup of two classes.

The one exception seems to be Oracle 1/Sorc (or wizard) whatever for Amazing Display or whatever it's called if you're an Illusion-focused character. Extending the life of Color Spray is stupidly good. Outside of that, multiclassing sucks and by extension the standard Prestige classes also suck.

>>51686570
Your arbitrary restrictions based on location are meaningless. Why that's so hard to get, I won't understand. You're forcing the player to adhere to your personal flavor rules, which honestly fits right in with Pathfinder given my gripe listed above about multiclassing. That's decidedly not a "wider range" as you claim but obviously an arbitrary restriction that reduces choice.

If you want location to matter, your best bet is to avoid full being implantation. At least that way, your powers will at least make more sense based on the implant type and being type. A claw of a dragon, demonic eyeball, etc. Trying to shove an entire demon into someone's eye and telling them they only get See Aura for it is dumb.

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>>51686525
Hey man, thanks for trying the class out!

>I've gotta say that the double five foot step is extraordinarily good in terms of flanking and close combat, as basically we could've managed to flank the beast patients with relative ease (if we had a bit more coordination)
I'm glad that it seems like it could come in handy. One of the common complaints for martials is that it can be difficult for them to move around, so I had hoped hunter's grace would help give a little better mobility without going overboard. It sounds like it is working well in that regard.

>if i've got one comment, i've gotta say that the blood ministration combined with an attempt to become as hard as possible to hit gave me incredible staying power, as i believe i tanked around maybe 90-110ish damage, with a max health of 81 and during the whole time, i never dipped below half health
Interesting. Did you have the opportunity to use your Blood Rapture rune in conjunction with Visceral Attacks, or was healing from rally the sole thing keeping you fighting. Still, my intention was to give the hunter far more staying power in a fight than a normal martial so that they could be a little more self-reliant. I'd like to look at how hunters fare against different kind of opponents and how rally helps them across multiple combats, just because of ow unusual blood ministration is with regards to martial abilities.

>although the best part about this is when the charred hunter detonated himself, and with his initial explosion, exploded the poor fuckin' kid carrying around 9 kegs of black powder, and therefore blowing everybody to kingdom come
I've heard some about him. Sounds like a cool dude; I'd party with him.

Glad you all enjoyed your session. I really appreciate you taking the time to let me know how things went.

Tiefling with the pass for human characteristic with a non human tiefling, let's say a half elf...could he take Paragon Surge?

>>51686709
Definitely not by RAW, but ask your DM. I'd personally never allow it since it's obviously fishing for min-max stuff while throwing flavour out the window.

>>51686709
No. Pass for Human specifically makes you a humanoid (human), not humanoid (any humanoid race). It would let you qualify for the Racial Heritage feat, and you could pick Half-Elf for that to take Paragon Surge.

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>it's a "witch hunter misconstrues something entirely to a particular thing, and will obsess over it horrendously in a bid to out autism DHB because of his creepy stalker obsession with him" episode.
Someone shoot this dicker in the head with a nailgun already

>>51686700
I am still unsure what you mean. Is what you're advocating for a long list of releases that do not differ by entity/location?

Because otherwise your argument does not make sense to me. If it is limited on either side then it is still a smaller list of choices based on flavor. Demons only being able to give you certain abilities.

Having both Demon and Eye gives you Demon and Eye abilities. What you seem to be arguing for is only Demon? Or not having Demon be a distinction and having it be any release?

As for the implant rules instead I toyed with that idea too, but decided against it.

>>51686707
never got to use my blood rupture since we didn't have any way to stagger/whatever status you need for the visceral, and when people were down i failed my heal checks to figure it out, but just from the normal blood ministration i basically tanked extraordinarily hard with just 20ac

i initially thought that the hunter would've been the king of 1v1, but it seems like a group of hunters can also do fairly well against huge groups of enemies as well due to the steps, and if we did manage to use create opening, we probably would've wiped that entire group of like 13-14 beast patients

anyways, i really enjoyed the class and i would've enjoyed it a little bit more if i had more time with it

>>51686750
Stop trying to argue with him. He doesn't have a point, he's a shitposter with a freaky stalker obsession with you who decided to use his week interest to try to harangue you over something he doesn't even have interest or knowledge in.

>>51686707
Moonlight trick user over here, we actually didn't get a chance to use Visceral Attacks save for the guy using Blood-Addled Hunter.

As far as I knew, nobody took the Blood Rapture rune or they didn't mention it. Somehow, though, all the damage I was taking during the test was via the Charred Hunter's church cannon splash damage. Having the Guidance rune meant 4d8 rally heals every round, so I wasn't gonna die easily.

It's a bit of a shame I didn't get to share those CL12 shield of faith potions with the rest of the party.

>>51686781
That's a lot of unfounded information you have there. Since this is literally the first time I've ever said anything to this person I didn't even bother to care he's a tripfag. Can't stalk someone I give no fucks about, you know.

>>51686750
I have no need for any such list. In fact, your argument sounds an awful lot like Riot's arguments for why both Runes and Masteries are still in the game when one or the other would suffice and be infinitely easier to keep in check/balance.

Don't mistake complication for choice. Many early designers fall into this trap.

>>51686734
By selecting pass for human and racial heritage half elven, when it comes to favored classes can he pick any of the three races?
Does it work with picking racial heritage elven? Since he's already human?

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>>51686765
>>51686788
So you guys went up against one CR 11 encounter, and one CR 12 encounter (Someone had said the beasts were broken up into a group of 6 and another of 9).

What were your respective levels? There was only five of you together, right (6 with the cohort)?

It sounds like the hunter is on the higher end of power for classes, but not wandering into unreasonable territory.

>>51685713
Sounds like an Avowed, except with annoying Kineticist levels of book keeping.

Remember, if a class is comparable to a Kineticist in terms of mechanic complexity and bloat, then you have a problem

>>51686863
Eh, I mean, Create Opening didn't really get to shine because nobody was doing TWF (Well, the blood-addled hunter had his natural attacks).

As for the 5-foot stepping, it was kind of pinned down because the charred hunter was making difficult terrain everywhere.

We were a 4-man party of 7th levels with a 5th level cohort whose sole job was helping load the cannon.

>>51686822
I think you are still misunderstanding. There are not two things, as you described with Runes and Masteries. There is one list of Releases that you can qualify for a number of ways. Both Location and Entity can qualify you.

I am unsure where you got that there was two lists.

Let us say there are a list of 100 total releases. Demon qualifies for 20 of the 100. Eye qualifies for 20 of them. The two lists of 20 in fact overlap so that the character qualifies for a total of 35 (5 of the releases being shared between the two lists).

>Don't mistake complication for choice. Many early designers fall into this trap.
I am unsure where you are getting this either.

Wait, I have thought of a good example. As a vigilante you have 1 of 2 specializations. Either Stalker or Avenger. You need to qualify for some vigilante talents by either being one or the other. In this case it is much the same way, except you have two separate specializations to choose from, location and entity and the talents are possibly quantifiable with either the entity or the location.

>>51686870
This is something I struggle with is class complexity and cutting down on it. It'll have to come through with the final design of how to cut down on that complexity. The unchained fighter suffers from this to a degree.

>>51686829
1) Yes. Pass for Human lets you take tiefling/human, racial heritage lets you take tiefling/human/half-elf.
No, since half-elf is its own thing that has both the elf and human subtypes via elf-blood. Half-elf is its own thing, not something that's both human and elf.

>>51686863
yeah, the beasts were broken up into 6 and 9
there were 4 of us, 5 with the cohort

we were level 7s, rolled for stats

i really do believe we would've taken out all the beast patients, had we not all failed our will saves against the moon beast

my stats, including magical items were:
22,13,16,15,10,10

>>51686909
Thanks.

Side question, for the elven branched spear it says that elves wield it as a martial weapon. That would apply with racial heritage elven?

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>>51686895
>>51686917
Hmm, so that'd be one Epic +1 and one Epic +2 encounter, and it sounds like you guys didn't have too much trouble with either.

I don't necessarily trust the CR system but it may be something I need to look into before my next update.

Thanks for the info, guys.

If you guys have anything else that comes up and I'm not around (or suggestions for abilities or adjustments you'd like to see in the future), feel free to drop a comment on the doc.

>>51686931
I'm not sure on that, I'd need to double check the original printing of the elven branched spear. I believe it may be a result of Weapon Familiarity (Elven) which allows those who have it to treat weapons with 'elven' in the name as martial weapons, but it might be a specific ruling that anything that counts as an elf can use it as a martial weapon. Just keep in mind, again, that being human with racial heritage (elven) does not qualify you for Paragon Surge.

>>51686901
I don't care about lists. You're the one going on about lists. The fact of the matter is that you want to complicate things needlessly by trying to say both the being and the location matter regarding abilities when it should just be locked to the being only. You could actually argue for location generating some minor bonus to abilities related to that location, but that's about as far as you should go regarding location mattering. If a demon normally grants Dark Vision 20 feet, but you bound it to the eye, you'd instead get Dark Vision 30 feet or something to that effect.

Location should be an RP aspect with minor perks, not a class-defining feature. You're already taking up a lot of design space with binding to a creature to begin with. There's no point in mucking it further and trying to convince yourself that you're making the class more interesting with additional "choice."

>>51686973
>>51686931
And yes, that's the text from Melee Tactics Toolbox. By RAW, if you are an elf you can treat an elven branched spear as a martial weapon, regardless of whether or not you have Weapon Familiarity.

>>51686960
actually, let me clarify, as we basically got completely wiped by the moonbeast due to somewhat shite will saves

here's a general timeline of how things went
hunters vs 6 beasts (meh)
few rounds later (doing fine)
9 more beasts later come in (still fine)
after we've taken out maybe 5-7 beasts, on my end still full health, moon beast showed up

after that, it all went to shit when he managed to start dominating people, one by one until demoman blew us to the next world

in terms of health, we managed the beasts fine but the moonbeast wiped us

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How would you stat him, /pfg/?

Assume Spheres of Power and Path of War are both in play.

>>51686974
>You could actually argue for location generating some minor bonus to abilities related to that location, but that's about as far as you should go regarding location mattering. If a demon normally grants Dark Vision 20 feet, but you bound it to the eye, you'd instead get Dark Vision 30 feet or something to that effect.
This as written would cause a lot more total writing and complication than just having both being able to qualify you for things, as each location would need a list of synergistic abilities rather than a single qualified for list.

Instead of being:
>Name
>Prerequisite(s)
>Ability

it would become:
>Name
>Prerequisite(s)
>Ability
>Synergies

That would be more complex as multiple things could synergize with single abilities and bloat the abilities.

>Location should be an RP aspect with minor perks, not a class-defining feature. You're already taking up a lot of design space with binding to a creature to begin with. There's no point in mucking it further and trying to convince yourself that you're making the class more interesting with additional "choice."
Really at this point I think it just comes down to we differ in opinions on it. I personally see location and unlocking abilities by location interesting, you do not. Likely I am going to design it the way I find interesting because this seems to simply be a stylistic different between us.

>>51687016
shit anime/10

>>51687016
Well, I know he's got some form of time manipulation (maybe Riven Hourglass?), and can somehow possess a small child after his death.

Not sure beyond that.

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Making SoM Sentinal for a gestalt game, and having hard time trying to determine what the other half should be.

What are some classes that would synergies well with the Sentinal, especially one based around using Polearms like Glaives or Naginata?

>>51686997
>>51686973
Awesome, thanks.

>>51687034
Reincarnated Master Incanter with the time sphere, Riven Hourglass, and enough self-buffs to pump his melee game up high?

>>51687020
Who said anything about "synergies?" Why do you insist on overcomplicating everything? First you want to throw 15 extra abilities at someone just because they put a creature in their eye when the answer is to add minor perks to eye-related abilities the creature would impart. That "removes" options but enhances the flavor. The point is that the character is bound to a demon, not that the character is bound to a demon WITH HIS EYE, WOW, SO COOL RIGHT?

It's very simple to add a line regarding bonuses to location at the top of your location table. Something simple such as "abilities granted by the bound being gain 25% more damage, range, or duration if the bound location thematically matches the ability in question; DM's discretion."

You're making things complicated for the sake of complication at this point.

>>51687128
I don't know if you're purposefully misconstruing things. I am unsure how to explain it a different way because it still feels like we are not on the same page.

Like:
> First you want to throw 15 extra abilities at someone just because they put a creature in their eye
I do not know what you mean by this. It is a list much like Rogue Talents are where you select one every few levels, not receive all of them based on your initial choice.

>It's very simple to add a line regarding bonuses to location at the top of your location table. Something simple such as "abilities granted by the bound being gain 25% more damage, range, or duration if the bound location thematically matches the ability in question; DM's discretion."
DM discretion abilities written into mechanics is simply bad game design.

I can't tell who is in the wrong here. Naruto anon or DHB.

>>51687167
They both are, in near equal amounts

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>>51687005
Thanks for the clarification. I'll be heading to bed shortly, but do you perhaps remember about how many rounds the whole ordeal lasted?

>>51687227
off the top of my head, about 8-10

>>51687167
>>51687198
Mostly DHB is in the wrong for not stopping feeding the troll an hour ago.

>>51687016
The issue with statting him is that we've literally only seen him fight once and the pic you posted was half the fight we got to see. Maybe we'll get more info when the new Ozpin gits good, but until then we can only speculate.

>>51687145
The type of bonus is up to the DM because it's contextual to the ability being enhanced. "Extra damage" for Dark Vision wouldn't work, for example, and "extra duration" for instant abilities is pointless. That's the concession one has to make with a blanket "boost these things" line without bogging the player down with your insistence on overbearing specifics.

You want to call elegant solutions "bad design" because you're trying to craft an overly specific masturbationesque character concept and anything that doesn't let you do that is going to be viewed as a negative.

>>51687280
>You want to call elegant solutions "bad design" because you're trying to craft an overly specific masturbationesque character concept and anything that doesn't let you do that is going to be viewed as a negative.
No really, if you think that's good design you need to try pulling your head out your ass. Fuck off. Mother may I gameplay is a fucking plague.

>>51687280
No, that's shit rules, you're shit for thinking of it.

>>51687295
Oh, I'm sorry. Illusion spells want to have a word with you. They're simultaneously the most broken and the most useless spells in the game because how they get implemented is really up to how much the DM lets you get away with. If you don't want to work things out with your DM prior to the session, that's your own damn fault.

Most DMs aren't going to dick you in the ass from the outset, and the ones that are aren't worth playing with so who cares. When you're using spell-context abilities with a blanket bonus to some aspect of that spell, you're going to have to involve your DM with the design process. Otherwise, you end up with otherwise fine abilities reaching beyond their bounds.

>>51687315
You're just retarded. Give up.

>>51687325
>They're simultaneously the most broken and the most useless spells in the game because how they get implemented is really up to how much the DM lets you get away with
Did you read what you typed? That's why Mother May I design is a bad idea. It's like I'm arguing with a particularly stupid brick wall.

>>51687335
It's only a bad idea to you because you can't come to a balanced agreement with your DM or your DM is a dick. In either case, you find a new DM, shitlord.

>>51687357
A class should not be designed around "if your GM is good you'll have a great time, if not you'll have a bad time". I can't take you seriously if you actually think that's the proper way to make a class.

No seriously are you trolling? You have to be.

I'm going to be playing on Pathfinder for the first time in a few weeks (it's also my first time in this kind of thread). My group and I are used to the 4E system and we recently started up a periodic campaign using 5E.

Pathfinder looks promising and I can't wait to see what I can do. My DM is allowing me to play a custom class (I'm amazed at the amount of custom material for this system) so I'm going to try out a Dragoon, based on Final Fantasy (http://www.finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/dragoon.html).

My concern relates to acrobatics as I'm trying to get the most of that skill in terms of feats and items. Fortunately, there are some class features that'll make jumping great, i.e. no fall damage at level 20 and no restrictions to vertical height. My friends teased me by saying if I follow something overly specific and to the letter, I can meet or exceed a 200 ft. jump. I'm not really sure how to even go about looking how to do it.

>>51685713
> Ghosts would be another possible options. Maybe even a dragon? I am unsure
For the love of god don't do dragons. Please. I'm sick to death of them.

Anyway, what about Plants and Constructs? Cordycypts/Weird symbiotic plant and full and weird Cyborg/Magi-tech stuff.

Oozes could be another weird one.

>>51687368
You do understand that every class is shit when a GM is bad, yeah? It's like none of you even realize the GM puts up with a lot of shit to make sure everyone is having fun. If the GM wants you dead, you're going to die. It's happening. You can't stop it unless you never sat at the table to begin with. It doesn't matter what your class is. That's a bad GM right there, by the way.

Have any of you been a GM before? I mean, honestly. You act like you should get to do what you want, and that's not how it works. At least, not without consequences.

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>>51687280
>You want to call elegant solutions "bad design" because you're trying to craft an overly specific masturbationesque character concept and anything that doesn't let you do that is going to be viewed as a negative.
>elegant

>>51687396
>pretending to have a point

>>51687403
Explain how "swing 25% depending on roleplay" is elegant design.

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>>51687396
>Elegant design
>WHITE WINE SPRITZER

>>51687415
It fixes every issue he has. Full-on ability bloat is a problem he refuses to recognize. This fix gives him the "location matters" bit he cares about so much, maintains the focus on the type of creature being bound, and enhances the RP aspects of the character. You're stuck on the "oh no, I have to ask my DM" part that you're not seeing the point.

The ability bonus is contextual to the ability being enhanced. More radius more Dark Vision, or more duration for Dark Vision if it's not a permanent boost. Who cares? It's minor flavor shit. An extra 5 range on Acid Splash? Sure, why not, that's kinda neat.

This isn't a case of "the DM makes me godlike or pointless" like Illusion can be. Illusion does it wrong because the point of Illusion is about deception and deception is easy for a DM to ignore. And even Illusion can work if your DM is accommodating, respectful, and logical about what's happening.

This isn't Illusion's case. These are literally RP flavor bits designed to impart the idea that the location of the implant matters, but not in a class-defining way. It's doing the "DM makes my choice for me" correctly. Rarely will any of these minor bonuses actually impart palpable power outside of a potential additional damage bonus, depending on the ability.

This is the very definition of an elegant solution. No amount of the same guy posting reaction images is going to change it.

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>>51687458
If the bonuses are tiny enough that it doesn't fucking matter to you if you get them or not, why the fuck are they even THERE?

why not just ask the fucking DM for some random tiny-ass ability any other time?

A bunch of fucking tiny mostly irrelevant bonuses isn't elegant, it's BLOAT.

>>51687458
From where I am I'm seeing nothing but you seeing problems where there aren't. Because all he has said is that it "qualifies you for more things" not "gives you more abilities".

>>51687458
You're describing bloat, DHB's solution where both qualify you as prerequisites is more elegant. You are bloating it where he isn't.

What you're describing is location increasing a narrow range of abilities given to you by the creature bound. He's describing that location and type of create qualifies you for a wider ranger.

I'm really not seeing your argument having any leg to stand on.

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>>51687458
No anon, you're the bloated one.

>>51687458
explain how:
>I choose two things, it qualifies me for things on a list, I choose a number of them
has more bloat than
>I choose two things, one of them RP, the non RP one qualifies me for things from a list, I choose a number of them, I ask my GM if my RP increases the abilities I have from the list of qualified ones

I can not see any way your solution isn't bloatier

So I'm going to be making a one-off character for a session sometime in the near future, he's a Catfolk Paladin with the goal in life to destroy a massive dungeon that's in the world my GM made.
We're going to be starting at level 7, and I don't think we're going to progress much further past that, but I've been trying to work in some way for him to be able to jack up constructs (there's a lot of those in the dungeon) and so far all I see as options are either taking a dip into Warpriest for that sweet, sweet Artifice blessing at the cost of having a useless spell list and one use of Smite/day (his Wis is 6 so there's 0 chance he can cast WP's spells), or by taking the, honestly, garbage archetype Temple Champion and getting the blessing that way, but if I do that I lose my paladin spells and Divine Bond.

Any suggestions?

>>51687554
>>51687525
>>51687516
>>51687504
>>51687498
It's very clear to me that all of you play with shit DMs or you burned the bridges with your DMs at some point so that they refuse to accommodate you. Being one of those "but the booooooooooook" fags tends to do that. That's fine, but it colors your perception of the solution. The numbers I gave were examples, intentionally reduced in power to showcase the concept without focusing on the implicit power of that concept. Hell, it really only exists because he insisted on location being a factor and was my concession to accommodate his desire.

I DM for a reason. Either none of you have, or you're bad at it. Does your DM not grant you bonus damage because you did some impossible stunt, actually succeeded, and he rewarded your creativity to encourage the rest of the table to look up from their character sheet every once in awhile? Did a player decide to brandish his dagger during an intimidation check and the DM gave him a silent +1 bonus?

That's what this is. Helpful bonuses that don't overtake the system. It was already complicated enough and he wanted it to be more complicated. That was retarded and frankly, so are the rest of you for defending it.

If you want to keep sucking his Naruto-flavored cock, be my guest.

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>>51687751
Circumstantial things like that are good, yes. But actual mechanics are not the place for them.

I will not debate your ability as a DM, because I don't have anything to judge that off, but you are not a good designer.

>>51687751
You did not actually answer my question >>51687554

And I thought the end of that last thread was pretty cancerous. /pfg/ has been real shit these past few days.

>>51687812
Well at least we're talking about game design I guess?

>>51687832
Yeah that's fair, though this exchange clearly needed to end half an hour ago.

At least it isn't a couple people with no leg to stand on shitting on the characters of complete strangers, and then TWO deleted threads.

>>51687780
You refusing to say "so, I just got Dark Vision as a power and my parasite is in my eye. Is 5 extra radius okay as my bonus?" doesn't make it bad design. You're just unwilling to have perfectly crafted control of every aspect to your character reduced, even when those aspects don't affect how your character plays or functions.

>>51687808
Not every power even qualifies. Each being would have a list of powers to choose from at whenever he gains a power. If you happen to pick a power that goes with wherever your parasite is latched on to, in this continued example of the eye for Dark Vision, then you take 5 seconds to ask if extra radius is fine for a bonus.

These bonuses wouldn't exist otherwise in his original proposed system of "check my demon table, now check my eye table, sift through 30 skills that I have to read the effects of before I decide."

>>51687875
>You refusing to say "so, I just got Dark Vision as a power and my parasite is in my eye. Is 5 extra radius okay as my bonus?" doesn't make it bad design.
That's not what makes it bad design. Mother may I abilities where written into a class feature there are "the GM can increase this by up to x%" is really bad design.

>You're just unwilling to have perfectly crafted control of every aspect to your character reduced, even when those aspects don't affect how your character plays or functions.
Class features should do what they say on the tin. The point here isn't a good or bad GM. The point is class features should be able to survive any style of GMing. Also if it doesn't actually effect your character's play then it shouldn't exist, obviously in this case he wants it to.

>Not every power even qualifies. Each being would have a list of powers to choose from at whenever he gains a power. If you happen to pick a power that goes with wherever your parasite is latched on to, in this continued example of the eye for Dark Vision, then you take 5 seconds to ask if extra radius is fine for a bonus.
You're describing different design. Your idea is still more bloated than his. What you're describing is something like Oracle Mysteries and Revelations rather than Vigilante Talents.

> "check my demon table, now check my eye table, sift through 30 skills that I have to read the effects of before I decide."
Except that isn't what was proposed at all? Have you not actually been reading anything posted? It is "check the releases table, do I qualify for so and so". It's no different than a rogue talent with prerequisites. There are no separate tables. There is one big list and you check if you qualify. Like vigilante talents. I don't see how "rogue talents" is more bloated than "GM discretion ability increase". Or do you just not like Rage Powers/Rogue Talents/Alchemist Discoveries?

You're making it out to be 10 times more difficult than actually described.

>>51687941
Once again, the DM "decides" because the ability is contextual. If you get a Breath Weapon power and your beast is in your eyeball, the player is going to try to say it's a beam breath, beams shoot from eyes, I get a bonus. DM steps in and says "no, you're dumb, stop it." It's that simple.

I'm saying what it is because of what it is. You're saying what you want it to be. There's a difference.

>>51687975
That sounds like the whole ability is an argument in a box

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>>51687975
You're still not making a damn lick of design sense.

Just saying.

You shouldn't have to convince a DM of some circumstantial bullshit as part and parcel of a class feature. Getting a bonus because you're bringing a chandelier down on a guy, sure. But not an intrinsic part of your goddamn class features.

>>51688024
If you want to consider minor bonuses to be class features, be my guest. You're dumb, but that's your right.

Is Fighter only bad because it's shit out of combat? Or is it not even that good in a fight?

>>51688032
If it is written into the class's abilities it is literally a class feature. What the fuck else would you call it?

>>51688032
If they're included directly in an ability, then they ARE being treated as class features.

That means they're taking up room/value that may even be getting compensated for elsewhere, when they should just be "minor circumstantial bonuses"

>>51687975
>Once again, the DM "decides" because the ability is contextual. If you get a Breath Weapon power and your beast is in your eyeball, the player is going to try to say it's a beam breath, beams shoot from eyes, I get a bonus. DM steps in and says "no, you're dumb, stop it." It's that simple.
This seems like a problem completely solved by the two qualifying you for different things and treating the abilities like a big package.

Would Dis/Adv work as a mechanic in PF?

>>51688136
It's bad (less bad recently) because all it can do is kill well.

Problem is, EVERYONE can at least kill okay, and many can kill DEVASTATINGLY WELL, not just 'well' or 'okay'.

And then, there's all those classes that can do way more than just kill well. Ones that can, with a wave of a hand handle situations in entire other ways. Like deciding how that shopkeeper feels right now. Like putting words in the king's mouth. Like pinging the great artifact on their magic radar thus saving everyone a whole lot of trouble. Like skipping the entire travel phase of an adventure. Like bringing the dead back to life. Like literally calling down a miracle.

All of these, and they can kill well too.

>>51688138
I'd call it a waste of time, because it only existed due to his insistence that the location mattered. They wouldn't exist at all otherwise, and that's why their impact is minimized. I literally don't want them there, but he wants to whine about it so it's a compromise that appeases both parties involved.

>>51688136
The underlying problem is that everyone designed to be in combat is at least passable at it, and oftentimes more-so, while being able to do other things.

>>51688162
I understand casters being heads above fighters but I've been wondering why fighter loses out to other combat martials. I figured Weapon Training and all the bonus feats would go a long way, but tier lists constantly place it below other frontliners.

>>51688181
>I'd call it a waste of time, because it only existed due to his insistence that the location mattered. They wouldn't exist at all otherwise, and that's why their impact is minimized. I literally don't want them there, but he wants to whine about it so it's a compromise that appeases both parties involved.
It seems the root of this is you think where the thing is sealed shouldn't matter. He does. This is a difference of opinion. I personally think location should matter as well.

>>51688195
>>51688162
Fighters do not. An fighter, as in all your levels are in the "Fighter" class have a higher optimization ceiling than any other pure martial. There is a reason Autism Fighter is a fighter rather than a Barbarian.

Maybe now is a good time to ask, if I am gestalting a rip-and-tear natural attacker, and I want one half to be either Fighter or Barbarian, which should I choose?

>>51688276
If you're going with Natural attacks, and you already HAVE all the natural attacks you want, go Fighter.

Weapon Training is better than rage offensively if you're not twohanding. Getcherself some dueling gloves and enjoy.

How good is vital strike in practice?

>>51688350
I'm a fan of it, particularly when you think your extra attacks aren't going to land anyway. At least, if I'm thinking of the correct ability.

>>51688276
To play Devil's Advocate, if whatever the other half of your gestalt is doesn't give you the amount of natural attacks you want, Barb is going to get you beast totem. It's two 1d6 claws that eventually improve to 1d8s with a x3 crit mod, some natural armor, and of course Pounce. You could also get a an amulet of mighty fists that gives Furious, I think?

Also consider your starting and projected finishing level, since you get Rage and rage powers early.

>>51688421
>You could also get a an amulet of mighty fists that gives Furious, I think?
dont think so

>This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons.

>>51688442
Natural attacks tend to be melee weapons, anon.

Menacing or Underhanded for Ranger combat style on a Slayer for more sneak attacks?

I think Shatter Defenses is probably going to be more reliable, but dirty tricks are fun.

>>51688458
yeah i was thinking in the context of it being on an amulet not a weapon, but i guess they probably mean no furious bows

>>51688350
It works pretty great with Two-handed Fighter at early levels, and not bad to good if you pick up the improved and greater versions.

>>51688333
>>51688421
What would some good choices for advanced weapon training with natural attacks be?

>>51688499
Cut/Smash, obviously.

>>51688473
There are three main paths to set up your sneak attacks, and all of them have pros and cons.

For intimidate, what a lot of people fail to realize about Shatter Defenses is that you don't actually get your sneak attack until the second hit. First you have to land a hit on a shaken opponent, and only then do they become flatfooted. In addition, it doesn't work on enemies immune to mind-affecting or immune to fear.

Dirty Trick is good because most things have eyes, even undead, and can be blinded. Dirty Trick is not so good, however, due to it being resisted by CMD, widely considered to be one of the fastest-scaling enemy defenses in the game, so you'll eventually be hard pressed to actually succeed with it.

A third option is the Deceptive style, which governs feinting. This is usually best with Moonlight Stalker Feint or Two Weapon Feint, both of which allow you to full-attack while feinting. Feint works on anything that isn't mindless, and targets an easy defense. With Greater Feint, all feinting now causes them to be opened up for the whole round, even allowing allies to join in. Aside from a few exceptions, though, it only functions with melee attacks.

>>51688499
Trained Grace is always good.

Fuck strengthlife, fuck dexlife.

Q U A L I T Y

>>51688543
Those are feats, not AWTS you goon.

>>51688499
Focused Weapon, Item Mastery, Warrior Spirit.

>>51688545
Thanks for the information, I appreciate it.

Feinting does wear off after one attack though, right?

>>51688556
>>51688570
Hmm, yeah, the other half is going to be a Protean Prowler so I think I might go Barbarian for beast totem so that I can save an evolution point.

>>51688556
>Those are feats, not AWTS you goon.
Literally one of the AWTS is just "get a weapon mastery feat," which includes Cut/Smash.

>>51688650
Why the everloving fuck would you spend an AWT getting a single feat? You're a Fighter, you get a fucking million of them.

Hey /pfg/ we have run into a issue in a campaign and i need your advice. We are fighting a cabal of seven warriors that represent the seven sins. Their goals seem to be godhood. 3 are confirmed demons... is there anyway to remove a demon permanently, or even make them mortal/human? In this setting, demons dont die, they just start over as level one demon things, so we need to take them off the board permanently as they seem to have been trying for millennia.

>>51688661
If he goes Fighter. Seems he's going Barb: >>51688631

>>51688703
You're gonna need a Daemon.

Using a Daemon you can trap them in a soul gem and then destroy the gem.

Another answer could be trap their physical form in some manner rather than killing them. Trap the Soul, despite its name, traps their body in a crystal.

Banishment will at least send them back to their home plane.

>>51688631
not a bad idea since you'd in theory be saving the points you might otherwise spend on pounce as well

>>51688609
normally yes, but greater feint lets it last the entire round, so it's pretty much mandatory if you wanna full attack.

>>51688734
Yeah, and 1 evolution point is still magic weapons to all of your natural attacks, or a +8 to a skill, or scent, or a movement type, and the Con buff from rage is going to let you use the Protean Prowler's features more often to swap these things out as you need them.

>>51688276
Barbarian, you can get more natural attacks out of it, depending on what your starting natural attacks are.

>>51688823
What's a good build for a natty barb?

>>51689045
Well if you do not have a bite or claws you pick up the beast totem line, and animal fury
Be a rage bred skin walker and pick up the feat to get two shifted effects at once.
This will give you a 1d4 bite, two 1d6 claws, 2 1d4 hoofs, and 1 1d6 gore.
Once you can get pounce at level 10 the claws become d8 and you can make all those attacks basically every round. At level 12 you can make your gore auto crit, and get an aomf with burst effects if you want, or just stack modifiers, and get a bodywrap of mighty strikes with all the burst effects you can on it, then use it with the gore.
And you will want to take tentacle as a discovery as well. But by level four you should have seven natural attacks.

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>>51689201
>Ragebred

Like motherfucking Bebop?

>>51689201
Also forgot to mention, pick up natural attack and pick up vestigial arm once or twice, this will give you the ability to full round attack with a weapon, including bombs if you want to, then use all your natural attacks at -2
So let's say you are at level 12 and have two arms with str 22 so mod 6 your attack entry would look like this we will also assume power attack.
Greatsword 15/10/5 2d6+21
Bite 12 1d4+14
Gore 12 1d6+14
Tentacle 12 1d3+14
2 claws 12 1d8+14
2 hooves 12 1d4+14
This is ten attacks every round, and this is before items come into the mix.

>>51689429
Oh and that gore auto crits if it hits

>>51689429
Where's the tentacle from?

>>51689456
Alchemist wasn't this a mix with an alchemist gestalt?

>>51689462
Someone said a Protean Prowler? That's a Vigilante archetype.

You can't use the tentacle discovery in full attack, in any case.

>>51689487
Hrm... that is a weird way they word that, yeah I guess tentacle does not work with giving more attacks but can make attacks... Either way, that whole thing hinges on having alchemist discoveries without that drop the greatsword attacks, which will lower the attacks, but will raise the ab on some of the natural attacks.
And if it was protean prowler I misunderstood something, Let me go look at that.

By raw, if a slayer never takes ranger combat styles by 10, can he take 3 of them by 16 at 12, 14 and 16?

>>51688159
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes---3rd-party-publishers/hexes/common-hexes/hex-fortune-su

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes---3rd-party-publishers/hexes/common-hexes/hex-misfortune-su

>>51689608
Three feats yes, three styles no.

>>51686674

Speaking of, how did the session go last night?

What's the best way to kill a witch with the element of surprise? Her familiar is absolutely vulnerable, and we're frequently camped or quartered in the same place.

>>51689995

Seduce her publicly with overly cutesy displays of affection. She'll die of embarrassment inside of 3 hours if you do it right.

>>51690082
>Ma'am, I couldn't help but notice that new hat of yers. It's real purty.

I like it. Operation Enduring Cuteness will be put into effect as soon as possible. The best part is that no one will suspect a thing, and there will be no signs of a struggle or traditional homicide.

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>>51690108
i want someone to assassinate me with cute advances.

>>51690177

You need it rougher, more aggressive.

Thorough headpatting and giggly raspberries on your belly!

>>51690177
Those glasses perfectly frame your lovely eyes, you know. Would you care to join me for some tea on the hill overlooking the Blasted Wastes this afternoon? I hear the Bulette migration is beginning this week, and it's quite the sight.

>>51690237

>head pats and raspberries square on the belly

Jesus Christ that's like third base. This is a blue board ya crazy fuck!

>>51690275

You asked for an assassination, not a date!

One minute we're holding hands, than the other I've got you on your back, tears welling at the rhythmic pounding against your belly button!

>>51690108
>>51690177
>>51690237
>>51690269
>>51690275

and some people wonder why /pfg/ gets called a containment thread

>>51690334
I just love the way you shitpost, Anon. It's quite fetching. I hear the Egorian Opera Company is in town this evening, and I've secured a box with an ample view of the show if you're interested.

>>51690310

Somewhere along the lines she's gonna have to start making fort saves keep from drowning (Laughing too hard, cant breathe)

>>51690351

Those two-bit actors are hardly better than a smelly gang of sleazy Varisian salesmen! You want the Kintargo Opera, or Korvosa or heck, even Westcrown.

Egorian's only good for bureaucracy and mismanagement! Get the fuck out of here REEEE

>>51690394
>Westcrown

BY THE LIGHT OF THE SWORD, DEATH TO HOUSE THRUNE! DEATH TO DIABOLIST SWINE!

>>51690412
There was a village that was harried by a group of nasty bandits. When they prayed to Sarenrae, Iomedea or any "good" god, nothing happened. But when they sacrificed a little bit of their livestock to Moloch, the bandits disappeared overnight in a puff of brimstone and smoke.

Just sayin'.

>>51690466
Did any of them try sacrificing livestock to Sarenrae?

>>51690466
Lies and slander from an untrustworthy slattern of fiendish masters!

>>51690481
The fuck kind of a god of mercy forces people to sacrifice in her name? Reaaal merciful.

>>51690310

>Witch tries her damnedest to resist but her low close combat skills wont allow her to avoid the assault. She's helpless before the raspberry.

>>51690493
Just saying, it doesn't seem fair to compare what you get by trading to what you get by begging and then proclaim that whoever traded with you is a more reliable partner.

Hey /pfg/ I need some advice.
I'll be running a new game soon that's heavily inspired by dark souls, the short and long of it is that the gods are dead and the party is trying to become the new batch of gods.
Because of the setting divine classes will be disallowed, but what I'm wondering is, should we stick with 1pp classes, or use initiators?
If we use initiators, should the only other type of character available be full casters?
For reference, three out of the five people (excluding myself) in the group are kind of inexperienced with pathfinder and I have both of the path or war books.

>>51690493
Maybe sometimes a goddess likes to be shown the people care once and a while. A goat here and chicken there never hurt anybody. Moloch is just going to escalate things.

>>51690493

The same Goddess that blew up a town and created the gaping rancid anus of Rovagug in Casmaron.

Is there a way to make Magus use Wis or Char instead of Intelligence? I know the skill points are going to hurt, but it doesn't fit the character to be smart.

>>51690610
That one Spiritualist Archetype from the new Psychic book

Spheres of Power.

>>51690610
There's a cha archetype(or maybe even two), but it sucks.

>>51690528
PoW is a bit too much to give to new players right off the bat.

>>51690596
See? Asmodeus would never do that. He at least keeps up his part of the bargain and doesn't poke holes into Rovagug's cell. He keeps it closed. Stop worshiping paladin gods, worship Asmodeus. Guaranteed results, just for 19,95 PP.

Or Kurgess 'cause he cool.

>>51690623
They aren't totally new, but they've never had a long pathfinder campaign before, only one-offs and short campaigns. They've all played 4e and 5e plenty though.

>>51690544

>Sarenrae stamping her feet and yelling "praise me! Praise me! Spoil me rotten!" While Shelyn puts on her best ojou-sama look, covering her mouth while saying "how embarrassing~."

>>51690507

>Her familiar points out she's actually liking it

>>51690678
I want to praise Sarenrae under the sheets with my mouth!

>>51690394
Do you know what an opera is anon

>>51690691

Yes?

>>51690704
>actors
It's not a play.

>>51690684
> She tells the familiar to help even if she likes it.
>she gets free.
>The familiar wont let her have Chocolate cake for dessert anymore. Because even if she likes it, its bad for her. Especially since she has a ring of sustenance.

There's no winning move.

>>51690730

They're singer-actors!

>>51690783

C-can you do that? Can you eat dessert with a ring of sustenance on? What does that even DO to you?

>>51690824
Fucking multi-classing powergamers.

>>51690836
Obviously. You just don't need it, so the food goes straight to your rump for later use or abuse.

>>51690836

It's empty calories, the Ring of Sustenance gives you exactly as much nutrition as you need to maintain an active lifestyle.

Is the pfsrd down for anyone else?

>>51690839
Using opera characters as inspiration for a bard would actually be a really great idea.

>>51690851
>>51690848
>>51690836

Rings of sustenance don't give you the sensation of a meal, just put the nutrients directly into your body.

This isn't gluttony, she's bored!

This is a shit magic item. It doesn't even give you the taste of food, like that three course meal chewing gum.

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What do paladins do at Paladin school? What's a typical semester like? Is it co-ed?

>>51690961
Do you really have all Paladins attend like a college, anon?

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>>51690961

Of course its co-ed, and all the teachers are dressed as lusty nuns and Adonis priests. If they cannot survive the schooling with their purity intact, then they flunk.

>>51690910

What's worse is that she probably has the Flight Hex and never walks anywhere.

>>51690871

I've been seeing a lot of "View limit reached" and outright outages recently.

Looks like it's about to collapse.

Appropriate, considering the myth-weavers catastrophic failure.

....What will happen to /pfg/ when the only decent optimization and building guide vanishes?

>>51691052
pfsrd just needs to compensate for the higher traffic they're getting

>>51690968
The Tempering Hall is a real place in Golarion. It's in Absalom, and serves as a place for instruction of paladins of Iomedae, Shelyn, Abadar, and Irori, iirc.

>>51691067
The question is why is traffic increasing?

>>51691038
>>51690910

I need art for this lady

>>51691135

inb4 lewdgames killed the pfsrd

>>51691135
Probably because more people are playing games, and the pfsrd is hosting more content.

Looks like they're switching servers right now.

>>51690968
>http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Tempering_Hall

>>51691100
>>51691242
Clearly that is exactly the same as a modern co-ed college.

>>51691261
It's probably more like a military academy, but with a dramatically greater emphasis on physical ability.

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What are some rare professions for an adventuring hero?

For instance Torturer, I doubt they travel that often, if they're employed.

>>51690637
What do you mean? Asmodeus is a paladin god.

>>51691368
I could see a Kuthonite as a traveling independent contractor torturer. He or she is super professional and extremely skilled, and they value the opportunity to practice their art in many different locations on many different kinds of people.

>>51690910

Bored eating IS gluttony.

>>51691386

I think that got retconned-the Glorious Reclamation kicked things off by destroying the one LG Hellknight order.

>>51690903

I had a player do that.

She made a prima Donna.

Extravagant clothes, lots of makeup, huge breasts and wildly voluptuous figure... Basically a peacock, complete with sounding horrendously petty and vile when she starts bitching about things.

>>51691441

These things wouldn't happen if Rings of sustenance actually simulated meals. Its a quality of life thing

I'm a noob, where can I read about optimising characters and learn which traits go well together

>>51691368

Babysitter, courtier, wet nurse, carpenter, actuary, therapist, architect.

>>51691607

You can learn optimization here, and for traits you need only search on the Trait Filter offered by pfsrd (Google Pathfinder Traits and look for the filter, it's one of the first choices.)

Remember, traits are about as much for fluff as they are for optimization.

>>51691582
I was more thinking actual character roles but sure. It's a quirk of opera that your singer does not really have to be much like your character either.

>>51691368
How rare is chef? I just keep thinking of that one guy traveling to find all sorts of exotic ingredients for his recipes.

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>>51691608

>Adventuring wet nurse

>>51685604
Lamashtu is my fetish, drakania is only maybe too far

>>51691608
>Carpenter

I'm pretty sure a certain Carpenter Oracle and his party of 12 were some of the most famous adventurers of them all.

>>51691651
I think Drake Fenwick (Supermegatopia) featured a ninja with that profession.

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>>51691657

She seems to be a nice lady.

>>51685536
>>>51691607
>
>You can learn optimization here

I want to play a Sorcerer of some descript, not sure of the character yet was gonna figure that out when I knew what skils and stuff they'd need.

Whats the optimal way to build a DPR Sorcerer?

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>>51691608
>>51691651
>>Adventuring wet nurse
Yes, we can!

>>51691691
Yeah, slugs and tentacles are too far, thanks for reminding me it had art.

>>51691651
>>51691704

I mean ultimate mom was already made, might as well make ultimate mom's helper.

>Infernal Duke Ruzel
>Profile: Blasphemy, Humor, undeath
I would love to be a Cleric for this guy. There would be no end to the terrible puns. Every zombie would be a prop.

>>51691578
Godclaw was a shitty LN order. Thrune must fall! Asmodeus is the Devil, not your husbando!

>>51691638
I wanted to play an Urgathoan chef once, but my DM didn't like the idea.

>>51691737

Who was ultimate mom?

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>>51691578
You had to take a trait to treat Asmodeus as a LN patron.

>>51691691
I'd take her out on a hot date, no question.

>>51691738
Why puns when there's slapstick and gallows humor?

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>>51691773

The vessel of rebirth herself, Amalthea.

>>51691673

>Oracle
>Not a bard with the divine template

>>51691773

Amalthea, a character for RotJR who was given a blessed womb destined to rebirth heroic spirits into the world and, potentially, Aroden reborn.

As a result she was the ultimate figure of fertility, and lusted after being pregnant and having a man by her side and in her bed.

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>>51689841
Saturday RotJR Greentext:
>When last we left our party, goblins had just crashed the Swallowtail festival
>The first wave of goblins were dispatched fairly quickly and handily, despite Onryou spending her first turn shouting at civilians to get clear of combat (read: SwimmingEagle was running a little late) and Valeriya spending most of the combat on her back
>Thanks to the warder aegis hug zone, the only injury to the team was a crit to Valeriya which was little more than a scratch
>Team regroups and players wonder why we're still in turn order, Corwin pulls out his wand to heal Valeriya
>ENTER GOBLINS WITH FIREWORKS
>Corwin drops his wand and prepares for battle, team charges across the courtyard at their green foes
>Goblins set off harmless fireworks in party's direction
>Valeriya skewers a goblin so severely that she kills another goblin standing behind him
>Unattended flares from the goblins cause three gouts of flame burst forth from a cart singeing our heroes
>Onryou is relatively unharmed by the effect, but the same cannot be said for her clothes
>Aranha bites off a goblin's face
>Onryou charges at a pair of goblins with a spinning kick and kills one despite not making contact with either
>Flares eventually extinguished by Onryou's create water spell
>Combat done for now, Father Zantus and Corwin heal party back to full
>Screams from the north
>While running to the next battle Casimir notices that Aranha is wielding an Aldori Dueling Sword, a story for later
>Arrive at North Gate to see goblins execute a barking dog
>IT'S ON NOW
>Casimir is still a little put off by seeing the weapon of his people and is slow to act (last in initiative)
>Goblins hear Corwin and Onryou express affection for dogs aloud and attack them in a rage, no blows land
>Seht shoots an arrow with an arrow to defend himself
>Aranha fells a goblin with her gun, the noise startles both Seht and Mori causing a few misses
>cont'd