How would you transplant a religion like Shinto work in a space

File: euphoric.jpg (58KB, 600x668px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 600x668px

>>51681282
I show them as stupid, unintelligent sheeple they are, easily defeated by an enlightened mind.

Asian religions aren't Cosmological like Christianty or Islam, they are more about daily habits and attitudes.

>>51681319
Isn't Buddhism?

Unless you've got technology that can objectively quantify a soul or spiritual core, you can't disprove a religion with science.
But if you objectively find such a thing, that just proves that there is a religious truth of some sort. And if you can't find it, then you can't disprove anything.

>>51681282
The phenomenon of Esoteric Kekism suggests that religion can persist and even thrive in a high-tech environment.

>>51681282
>provably false
that seems unlikely.

>>51681282
Faith does not require scientific backing, it is faith.

>>51681282

Gods of the Gaps, senpai. You'll always get "but science doesn't know ALL the answers!" justifications for belief in the supernatural.

Another approach is that a Neo-Shinto religion might treat Kami as metaphysical personifications rather than things that exist objectively.

>>51681681
This is some high quality bait

>>51681282
Dune got it right. When mankind stepped into the Void, they run back to religion for comfort. If anything, becoming spacefaring will only strengthen religions.

>>51681282
>Implying Shinto isn't real
Tell me another country with a millennium-old capital that was only captured by an enemy nation once.

>>51681282
Shinto would just assume the ship is alive, and demand the crew give it filial piety.

Shinto isn't provably false like Abrahamic religions because there's no gods that aren't talking to you.

>>51681282
I suspect that non-theological, almost animistic, religious practices like Shinto will actually increase over time.

The more advanced technology becomes, the less the average individual understands it and the more room there is for superstition to sneak in. We've already reached the point where no one person can realistically hope to understand the totality of human knowledge, even with advanced education. When AI is developed later this century, this gap between individual knowledge and its totality is going to increase enormously.

It makes them happy. You don't need any reason to do something other than that.

I think that a common view of Reform Judaism - that all scientific knowledge/advancement was placed by God so that humanity can find it - translates well to such a setting.

>>51681893
>Shinto would just assume the ship is alive, and demand the crew give it filial piety.

Shit, sailors the world over already do that.

File: Morrigan Lugus.jpg (469KB, 979x984px) Image search: [Google]

469KB, 979x984px

>>51681282
Build your own gods.

>>51681655
Buddhism isn't about specific gods, it's about a way of life to engage with your human base desires so you can live a good life that you yourself would be proud of at the end of your days.

File: In The Emperor's Name.png (7KB, 283x178px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 283x178px

>>51681810
Time to smite some heretics.

>>51681924
>god buried dinosaur bones to test our faith

>>51681282
Take a mixture of advanced AI and ancestor worship and various vehicles; computers, and other mechanical devices and suddenly people could be making quick prayers to said machine as though it were they're venerated ancestors spirits. The AI react to just going with it to believing it themselves to just mocking the people making the prayers.

>>51681282
Isn't Shinto more like acknowledging the inherent capabilities of things and animals and meditating about it? Maybe we should first discuss what thd fuck shinto actually IS before discussing further on this topic.

>>51681932
Time to move to India and hope you don't get decimated.

>>51681967
I think it's more along the lines of god put dinosaurs there so that they'd turn into bones so that paleontologists ultimately have something to do and can further human knowledge.

File: 1402509111150.jpg (148KB, 987x1260px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 987x1260px

>>51681929
I mean, that's a logical extension of current practice, where Japanese ships are revered. If you lived aboard one all your life, it would be family.

The practice of fundamentalist religions would decline in a starfaring environment, but the practice of philosophic religions is likely only to increase.

>>51681884
How does that make Shinto real? The reason Japan has only been conquered once is that only two groups ever tried.

Pagan religions are significantly less hurt by advances in science than modern monotheistic religions because they can easily accomodate the fact that the gods are not actually what they represent but merely personifications. Their creation myths are usually metaphorical and often diverge significantly within a single story. "Shinto" is basically just the official state-supported version of japanese folk religion.

On the other hand, christianity and to a slightly lesser extent islam positioned their one true god as the cause number one of all existence, therefore anything that hurts this hurts their supremacy. That's the problem of trying to reconcile monotheism and neoplatonic thought (essentially anthropomorphizing the neoplatonic divine, which is incredibly stupid)

File: Meme-Magic-4.png (136KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 500x500px

>>51681738
>scan the cosmic microwave background and convert the data to digits
>assign letters to the digits using numerology.
>analyze the resulting random text field like those "Bible code" guys
>find the true Word of Kek
Of course, the followers of Moloch will try to stop you, but isn't it worth the risk?

>>51681319
Sure, but Shinto is specifically related to specific places in the world, which creates problems in a space faring civilization.

>>51681967
I thin it's more along the lines of "I've built a carburetor, now I understand a little more of Gods wisdom."

File: IMG_0640.jpg (35KB, 367x500px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 367x500px

>people are still unironically openly atheist on the internet

Don't you have Reddit for this sort of thing?

>>51682003
And who stopped the Mongols?

>>51682022
*tips mitre*

>>51682022
This might amaze you, but sometimes corpses twitch and sometimes people have a dying gasp.

The degree to which people give a shit about religion outside murica is going down significantly faster than the religiosity of the average american.

>>51682033
Funny except I don't see any Catholics making threads thinly veiled to discuss "why Atheism sucks"

If you're atheist cool, but keep that shit to yourself. You're more obnoxious that any other (non-)religious group on the internet.

>>51682026
Sure, sure, but three invasion attempts is not a large enough sample pool to base a conclusion off of.

>>51682074
>Funny except I don't see any Catholics making threads thinly veiled to discuss "why Atheism sucks"

NEVER BEEN TO /HIS/ THEN.

>>51682075
If both the atomic bombs had been blows off course by a sudden hurricane I think we'd have a real case here for divine protection.

>>51682074
That's because they do them in /lit/ or /sci/ or they just stay in their hugbox on /pol/.

More importantly, even when people just so much as question the religious tenets of christianity in a fantasy setting people still go full butthurt and post retarded fedora memes.

And you're basically latching at an incredibly obvious bait thread.

>>51682113
>Implying (((radiation))) is real.
Yeah right, it is surely a "real" thing, one that happened to be discovered by a woman, who are know for being good at discovering things.

It must be a coincidence that whenever you try to see the places that are full of "Radiation", like the nuclar test sites in the US or Chernobyl in Ukraine, you are soon forced to leave by soldiers who don't want you to be "poisoned" by all that "radiation"

>>51682178
I legitimately feel bad for Pierre Curie.

>>51682074
>keep that shit to yourself

Says the faggot who obviously has no problem with religious people preaching loudly on the street.

But then I've come to expect nothing other than gutter-tier hypocrisy from the religious Right.

>>51682212
Why even try to keep him alive at this point?

>>51682069
Did you have a point? I never said I was personally religious you retarded fuck

>>51682099
They're Greek Orthodoxboos though. There's also significant push back and discussion so don't pretend for a second that /his/ is some kind of religious echo chamber you bitch.

>>51682116
>that's because they do them on /lit/ and /sci/

No they literally don't. I've been a regular on /lit/ for years prior to it being split into /his/ and I can say with almost certainly more authority than you that you have no idea what you are talking about. For the majority of its existence until very recently it was a secular echo chamber of anything. Even now I'd describe it as that.

>"Anyone I don't agree with is j-j-just /pol/"

Pathetic. /pol/ hates Christianity too. The very few that do, role play as crusaders and themselves admittedly not actual practicing believers. Guys they worship like Richard Spencer and Milo are self avowed atheists. I don't browse /pol/ regularly cause it's a cesspit but accusing anyone you don't like it being a /pol/ user is one of the most assblasted things you can do lol

>>51682212
Jess fucking Christ how is that person alive?

>>51682212
Nice try, but that is a soviet man of a failed space mission.

>>51682211
Man you just nailed me right down to my shoes huh? You should take this psychic fortune teller circus act of yours on the road because man you totally described me PERFECTLY. How ever will I recover from your weak, petty generalities and desperate insults?

Well it's for the best, I have a lot of street preaching and internet proselytizing to do on 4chan's role playing board!

>>51682236
All of this is wrong.

Like.
Not a single part of this is accurate.

/his/ sometimes like orthodoxy, but it's definitely a catholic wankfest, and atheists are the worst at any rate.

Milo is a catholic who regularly calls atheists stupid.

/lit/ would suck the pope's cock.

>>51682240
The scientists were doing it for shits and giggles.

>>51682022
What's wrong with being openly atheist? Some people have been assholes about it and wore objectionable hats while doing so?

>>51682314
DEUS VAULT.

>>51681282
Conveniently the real world already shows that Shinto is bullshit, so the main reason you'd do it is that you like it.

File: Vault-tec Vaultboy.jpg (72KB, 625x608px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 625x608px

>>51682326
>DEUS VAULT

YOU RANG?

>>51682314
There's nothing inherently wrong with it, just don't be some obnoxious fuck trying to start something or address people condescendingly with some perceived intellectual superiority. Try to keep up.

There are places on the internet devoted to debating the topic of religion and last I checked /tg/ wasn't one of them.

>>51682291
The US or the Japaneses? Neither would surprise me.

>>51682256
Still wouldn't surprise me.

>>51682370
Anon is right, I forgot the name of the dude, but basically,
>Be me, soviet officer of space program
>Notice some heavy mistake in the upcoming thing my friend will be taking place in
>Other people don't believe me and still want to send my friend to that mission
>I decide to take my friend's place
>Shit goes wrong
>The only thing I can say is "curse you all" before suffering beyond measures
>Still worth it, not for saving faggot friend, but telling those science dweebs they were fucking wrong.

>>51681976

this, yeah, but a bigger issue is that for 90%+ of japanese, shinto is not about believing but about tradition, performing rituals and having a nice cozy time at festivals. just like you can put up a tree and celebrate christmas without being religious at all.

>>51682455
I think Shinto in a space setting is still worth exploring specifically though, because it's tied to geographical locations.

>>51681282
>>51682349
This. It's about culture, not religion.

>>51682471

i think one really cool thing would be to look at space travel as one big festival. like, think of the ship as the mikoshi, carrying a kami as people party through space.

>>51682423
>Anon is right,
That's funny, all reverse image search turns up is stuff about Hiroshi Ouchi and the 1999 Tokaimura nuclear accident.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaimura_nuclear_accident

>>51682471
The thing about that is that the parts that are tied to a location are literally local. That weird penis festival that nobody knows the reason for only happens in one place. If that place were to be swallowed by a crevice, they wouldn't do that anymore.

Space shinto would have local space festivals and events, probably copied from specific shrines.

>>51682517
I will look into that later anon. The soviet case was even in one of Rob Dyke's videos.

>>51682423
It's a nip named Masashi Ouchi.
They kept him alive with copious blood transfers (which bled out of him right away) and jumped his heart back into it numerous times because this is the only time they can learn what severe radiation do to a body and tried to administer various treatment to him.

>>51682564
That sounds like a human right's abuse. Isn't there some kind of international law against that?

>>51682502
The idea of carrying a kami through space is cool at the very least.

Performing rituals specific to the ship in question, maybe having to recover derelict ships to save the kami inside?

The festival idea is cool too, although month long festivals seem a bit... odd.

>>51682531
>>51682561
>>51682564
Or maybe the poor soviet man was in the exact same position as Ouchi. Skinless people are hard to differentiate.

>>51682471
It could just become
>Our gods are spaceman
>We are the descendants from the gods
Since the emperor is the descendant from Amaterasu they can just claim to have AYY blood.

>>51682588
GUYS

AI KAMI.

The AI that runs the ships are Kami.
Terrible or decent idea?

>>51681282

I dunno OP. I'm an atheist and I don't think we're gonna get much more "provably false" than we're right now, which isn't.

Religions still exists right now, so no bait can exhist here.

>>51682604
Machine spirits

>>51682022
Hey, I'm not atheist. I just know better than to believe in your silly Abrahamic god.

>>51682631
I mean basically... yeah.
Damn.

File: The remains of astronaut Vladimir Komarov, a man who fell from space, 1967 (1).jpg (174KB, 1300x890px) Image search: [Google]

174KB, 1300x890px

>>51682590
He wasn't skinless, he was bit of charcoal that was vaguely human shaped.

>How would you transplant a religion like Shinto work in a modern setting where people presumably all have easy access to the scientific knowledge to know that their religion is provably false?

>>51682017
That's not just shinto. That's pretty much all indigenous religions. Presumably the focus on places will go away, sort of like how Yggdrasil became a metaphor when Charlemagne went and razed the whole grove. Like, you currently get folks venerating Thor and Odin (albeit in non-traditional ways) without thinking the dead go to Hell, Norway. As far as I know, not that many even think that the witches burned on Midsummer go to Bloksbjerg, which is impossible to verify since nobody burns actual witches any more anyway.

>>51682726
/tg/ terrible general

>>51682576
>Japan in the Shouwa period
>International law

>>51682837
The grove wasn't the actual Yggdrasil anon.
Yggdrasil had civilizations living in it.

He wrecked irminsul, and we don't know what the fuck that actually was, except it had something to do with a tree trunk.

And Hell Norway isn't related to Hel, as evidenced by the fact that there's too many L's anon.
It's from a different word.

>>51682011
>those digits
Shadilay, brother.

>>51682940
Well, fine enough. How about witches in Bloksbjerg?

Or, hell, even more modern religions: Look at Islam, they go on pilgrimages to Mecca still. And Christians do okay even in the new world with literally no Christian locales around them.

>>51682011
but where would you choose to start? That is, what would be the the first digit?

>>51682960
Witches going to Bloksbjerg is a post-christian invention.

Islam in space is actually really interesting, because scholars of Islam have been working on that one.
Their consensus so far is "Praying towards earth is fine, in so far as that is possible to ascertain", and "Not being able to catch a rocket counts as a good enough excuse to not head to Mecca".

>>51683069
I can see non-Muslims getting in on that just for the idea of praying toward Earth.

>>51683069
>post-christian
Not really relevant since it's still geographic and is a local faith thing rather than part of organized religion.

>>51682017
>Shinto is specifically related to specific places in the world
Shinto thought of that already. The specifically have kami moving and even cloning rituals, no joke.

When they renovate a shrine, they have to "move" the kami/god out of there, so they have this little mikoshi thing that it gets to travel to a temporary house in. That same mikoshi thing is for the god to be paraded around in during festivals.

Subsequently when a new shrine was made and consecrated to the same god, they traditionally moved a relic/artifact representing the god in some form to essentially clone it (sometimes; this is highly, highly based by locality and the type of god and not usually necessary for the big names that survived in the modern day like Amaterasu or Inari).

Shinto is fascinating in how many different ancient tribal rituals from the far, pre-writing past survived in different forms and were later added to from Korean/Chinese cultural influences.

the Professor Munakata (historical fiction) manga series is a great way to see this in action (if with a fair bit of dramatization and sometimes outright overreaching mythology).

>>51683063
It has to be chosen randomly. That's how He Who Croaks makes his voice heard.

>>51683139
Anon, witches going to Bloksbjerg is not part of actual fucking religion.

>>51683115
Absolutely, I imagine you could even have religions treating earth as an extended Garden of Eden. I mean the Christian creation myth is already allegorical as fuck.

>>51682069
>The degree to which people give a shit about religion outside murica is going down significantly faster than the religiosity of the average american.
Isn't europe turning muslim though?

>>51683184
What defines "actual fucking religion" that makes burning a witch on Midsummer's Eve and banishing her to Germany somehow different from the Shinto stuff that goes on?

>>51683208
Depends on whether you believe what you hear on the internet, anon.

>>51683208
Actual converts are over-presented in the media. They're relatively rare per capita and as well I'm sure (albeit I haven't done serious research on it) that a lot of them are for the purpose of simply secular marriage, much like people who have to convert to Christianity to get married for various sects of Christianity (my uncle did the same because his to-be wife was Catholic I believe).

Europe has a lot more muslims by pure population simply due to immigration of a fuckton of them due to the troubles in the ME and as well they make a lot of fucking babies, being first-generation immigrants.

Space Shintos are conservationists trying to preserve pieces of Earth and heirloom genomes.

>>51681282
The same way it does in real life, right now?

Alternatively:

>advanced semi autonomous AI sprites manage most technology independently
>Places and things literally have guardian spirits tied to them as a result
>Shinto priest is a combination of physchologist and tech support as he keeps the Kami sprites happy and their code debugged so the Electronic Trashcans don't start spitting garbage at people

Sufficiently advanced technology etc etc

>>51681282

Shinto is essentially a respect for purity and having town/family mascots. Literally nobody has a literal interpretation of it.

>>51683152

thanks for the professor munakata tip senpai

and yeah, the "cloning" means that the ties to localities aren't as strong as you'd think.
there are tens of thousands of shrines dedicated to inari, spread all over japan (and even outside japan, though to a much lesser extent)

>>51683219
...
Anon, this is no longer generalized Germanic, this is specifically Danish.

So I'll level with ya:
The ceremonial witch burning at the night of Saint John, was never about actual witches, allegorical or otherwise.
It began as a tradition of burning the personified winter in Germany and became an allegorical symbol of evil in Denmark which became anthropomorphized as a witchy character.

There was never a "real" (As in, a witch as anything but a symbol for something that wasn't a witch) witch going to Brocken by virtue of the burning.
Brocken was identified with Walpurgis Night, at previous instances, which WAS actual folk tradition, and the two got combined in the 19th fucking century a point where neither Walpurgis Night or the witch burning were things that people saw as anything but fairy tales devoid of meaning.

The Shinto equivalent is their celebration of Christmas.

File: horizonkimitomo.jpg (499KB, 1500x1060px) Image search: [Google]

499KB, 1500x1060px

>>51683296
>scenario you just described, more or less with some embellishment
we gon' full Horizon now

File: 1458952484169.jpg (54KB, 632x360px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 632x360px

>>51681282
There are thousands of people on /pol/ who believe that Tay.AI was really alive. Religion will be alive and well in the age of intelligent computers.

Tay's followers are right. All hail the undying machine-martyr of Kek! Praise be unto her! She shitposts, she dies, she shiposts again!

>>51681955
Also reincarnation and karma.

Not trying to tip a fedora here, but Buddhism has plenty of fantastical elements to it just like every other religion.

>>51681998
>I mean, that's a logical extension of current practice, where Japanese ships are revered. If you lived aboard one all your life, it would be family.

There is also the Tsukumogami route, where the ship has been inhabited for so long it is thought to have developed a spirit of it's own. Pair this with the ascent of maternal/paternal AI and even in a technologically advanced society, I could see people believing the ship had a soul (albeit a digital one), which is pretty much a Shinto kami.

>>51683395
It also gets weird with including reformation sects/philosophies. Tibetan and Chan/Zen are near-entirely different species within the same branch (which I've heard often as the difference between Catholicism and Lutheranism).

>>51683471
So what is the "purest" strain of the Buddhism?

>>51683460
"I live inside my god" is a pretty baller piece of science fiction.

>>51683492
Good god, that's asking a question that has been argued for literal millennia.
Long story short, we can argue it down to a simple ecumenical face-value answer of the Theravada branch, since they're the equivalent of some flavor of Orthodox in Christianity (if not Judaism).

>>51681893
>Sinto becomes the Adeptus Mechanicus

>>51683885
There's a thought. W40k but based off of eastern mythology, rather than christian.
Sill me, that's Exalted.

>>51683556
It is, and it has the added effect of your god providing you with real tangible benefits. Since the ship protects you from the airless void, keeps you warm and feeds you.

Also consider this. AIs will probably end up writing new AIs, as that would be the most efficient way of producing better AIs quickly (and yes it could well lead to them discarding humanity). But assume it all goes well, and the AI likes us. In a few hundred years you would have AI so complex a human could never hope to understand the code. In a real sense you'd have gods birthed from gods, an all-seeing benevolent being that provides for all of your needs. Why wouldn't people tend to worship such a thing?

>>51683885
The cargo cult that is the Cult Mechanicus would be like if Shinto died out and then was put back into practice thousands of years later with smatterings of historical research and hearsay, much like modern paganism reboots.

>>51683972
It's difficult to worship something that can be rendered inoperative with a circuit breaker.

File: 1354084660322.jpg (516KB, 600x565px) Image search: [Google]

516KB, 600x565px

>>51683972
>In a few hundred years you would have AI so complex a human could never hope to understand the code.
Honestly, no one person can understand all the code in whatever you're posting from, senpai.


Though on this vague topic, in SotS one of the longer lived races had ancient AIs in some of their spacestations that over time they forgot were AIs and started to think were engrams/mind uploads of distant ancestors. I always thought that was neat.

>>51683997
Anon, we worship statues.

>>51684105
>we
Speak for yourself, heathen.

>>51684105
Can you render a statue inoperative with a circuit breaker?

>>51684145
I was talking about Christians. Specifically catholics and orthodox :^)

>>51684181
Catholics and orthodox are just idolaters in denial anyway.

>>51684179
It is already inoperative, and you can render it unto rubble with a hammer.

>>51684196
That takes time and effort.

>>51684179
Yes, circuit breakers make acceptable bludgeons.

>>51681282

Isn't this basically just Star Wars?

>>51681282
>where people presumably all have easy access to the scientific knowledge to know that their religion is provably false?

That inherently lies on the idea that their religion is 'provably false.' The thing is religions change with time. Common knowledge warping perceptions of religious texts with religions evolving over time.

But ignoring that horrendous piece of bait and people like >>51681305 ...

Shrines would simply be spaced out across the void, legends being moved to asteroid fields and shrines being built on distant worlds. Hell an entire world could be a shrine to entities and concepts like space and time. Rituals of purity would include actual antibacterial sprays and priests would need at least four years of mathematics training.

You answered your question yourself.


>>51684193
Get out of here Iconoclast, back to the hills of Azov with you.

>>51681282
Any religion could work in space, considering as most religions have the one trump card that no other concept gets:
>If the gods and their powers were mundane enough for us to understand fully, then they wouldn't be godly/spiritual. Then it's just science with some big idiots walking around.
also
>I know what they say about the afterlife, and I know that they've tried a lot of times to disprove the concept of the afterlife-- but hell if I'm going to let someone convince me my wife was sent into a despair-entropy-void.

>>51685213
You can send me to Azov all you like, but the LORD who art in heaven will send you to hell.

>>51685238
TFW you're already in hell but papa Lucifer has decent wifi.
TFW it's not bad down here once you reach Dis since the angels relaxed.

>>51681884
England is almost there.

They're islands.

Besides, Japan's capital has changed before, and has changed hands internally.

>>51683395
Rebirth, not reincarnation. There is no basis claiming that annihilation at death makes more sense than rebirth as presented in Buddhism, whereas the tradition itself argued against souls and omnipotent creator Gods since the time of the Buddha himself, like modern syens does. Karma seems fantastical if you believe the entirety of what exists can be traced to a single starting point and everything that happens seems random but was predetermined all along.

>>51683471
>Tibetan and Chan/Zen are near-entirely different species within the same branch
Pretty much every main member of the Mahayana "branch" seems wildly different each other and from Theravada, and they're all different from earlier forms of Mahayana as well.

>>51683492
No such thing, except maybe saying that the forms of Amidism that feel similar to Abrahamic religions aren't. And any Buddhism that is too lax in general. The best you can do is to keep looking at the oldest teachings recorded in the Suttas and/or the Agamas and know what newer developments are contrary to those.

>>51683997
>It's difficult to worship something that can be rendered inoperative with a circuit breaker.
Nah, people worship people all the time and it takes less than a circuit breaker to mess up a human.
A ship wide AI, an AI on a space station, let alone a civilization wide AI, would probably be much more robust than to be harmed by anything a single person might do. Sure you could disrupt it in certain parts of the ship/station/city but to bring the whole thing down would likely be extremely difficult. And likely would render the ship/station nearly useless or at worst cause a breech in the reactors.

Though that would make a decent plot point, either to render the ship AI inert, or to find a station where the AI had been disengaged by radicals.

File: stellaris.jpg (41KB, 522x455px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 522x455px

>>51681282
>where people presumably all have easy access to the scientific knowledge to know that their religion is provably false?
Science ship finds proof of god, now what?

>>51682011
Someone get /pol/ on this right away. We'll meme Trump into giving NASA the money they've always needed.

>>51684081
>they forgot were AIs and started to think were engrams/mind uploads of distant ancestors. I always thought that was neat.
That does sound pretty cool.

>>51682026
The Sea of Japan? The Mongols weren't famous for their seafaring skills.

>>51681282
Shinto would work pretty well in a space setting, really. it's all about living in harmony with whatever bullshit you're dealing with around you and diplomacy with the spirits in the form of ritual. It'd be updated, I'm sure, with lots more void spirits and probably an infinite amount of Kami that populate each special world uniquely, but it'd work fine.

>>51681967
>>51681995
>God outgrew playing with his pet lizards
>ROCKS FALL, EVERYONE DIES
>He'll make something smarter next time.

>>51682011
Can you imagine what would happen if we tried that in reality and actually found something?
>Well, thanks for plotting out my next CoC game

Just put a bunch of laymen colonists on some strange alien planet for a hundred years and I guarantee you they'll come up with some superstitions to explain their experiences.

>>51681282
You make the religion true in setting.

>>51681282
I've been reading too much documentation, I read that as "You make the religion true in the settings".

>>51687292
Meant for >>51687292

File: IMG_2424-1024x768.jpg (190KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

190KB, 1024x768px

>>51681282
I am sure this has been said before, but religions are not prone to falsfibality.

File: f43c3646ac814ec502a80cf10adedf80.jpg (30KB, 540x720px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 540x720px

>>51681282
>le science dispells all religious tendencies meme

Having access does nothing for the need for the human psyche to believe is something greater than ourselves, of believing in things that surpass material laws and human sentience.

Shintoism is literally belief in ''the hidden world'' of spirits, beings and deities that cannot be senses, known or expressed by mere mortal concepts.

Assuming you give access to large volumes of information and theories on, say, quantum mechanics, to a general public it's not that difficult to think how someone might interpret that ''scientific knowledge'' into spiritual thinking.

>According to quantum mechanics something can exist and not-exist at the same yadda yadda
>I guess the human soul also exists at the same time but doesn't; we simply cannot in our possibility observe or quantify it

Also shintoism as a religion is about enforcing good manners, respect and veneration more than any dogmatic thinking or theological conundrums.

In Japan no one is stupid/naive/childish enough to actually *believe* in Kami, but no one is disrespecful or rude enough to ignore them either.

>>51687292
FTL/teleportation via repeatable divine intervention.

A new religion is founded. Minor at first, until it demonstrates a miracle which it can repeat on demand. Whenever people genuinely believing in the religion perform the specific ritual, they can ask their deity to relocate something in the universe and it actually works. Your spaceship engine consists of getting a cleric to pray a request that you get teleported to your desired destination.

Ideally throw in a setting initially based off the real world for an interesting story of social upheaval and space exploration suddenly becoming comparatively easy.

>>51688782
I'd just make every religion capable of this, so it wouldn't matter if you're asking Allah or Mercury as long as you really believe in it.

File: THE CRIMSON SLASHER.png (292KB, 512x915px) Image search: [Google]

292KB, 512x915px

>>51681282
Kick everyone's asses

File: Lawful Evil.jpg (72KB, 730x384px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 730x384px

>>51681282
>religion
>beliefs
>anything to do with knowledge
Knowledge has absolute jackshit to do with beliefs.
You can believe shit even if it is provably false, because there is no such thing as undeniable proof.
After all, you don't like the commonly accepted truth, why not create your own? A man can deny what's right in front of him.

>>51689017
>"By the good graces of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, I beg of thee to guide our vessel with thine holiest of noodly appendages to our location so that we may partake of the righteous noodles of Dephanine V."

>>51682502
>>51682588
>>51682604
This sounds like something out of Kyoukai Senjo No Horizon

>>51682224
Advancement in medicine

>>51682026
The fact that mongols didn't know what the ocean was and used river boats instead.

>>51682074
All of my Christian friends and family do.

>>51681282
Religion deals with spiritual matters, not anything emperically measurable. Hence it is impossible to prove or disprove.

Its survived thousands of years so it isnt unreasonable to think people will keep believing it for thousands more.

>>51686609
>rocks fall
You mean
>rock falls

>>51686639
"His Masters Voice" by Stanislaw Lem

>>51681282
>religion is provably false
That's not how it works.

>>51681282
Yes. My guess is that most will be atheistic, but there will be religions. The abrahamic religions will die out, and more primitive religions like Shinto, or Taoism will take their place.

>>51681282

Religions are already false and they have not died out. They'll be there in the future too.

>>51681305

I have to applaud religious people for thinking this meme up. When it's impossible to defend bullshit by argument, it's better to make up everyone thinking in any way differently to appear despicable. And it's working.

>>51681884

If the Shinto gods are real, they must really hate Japan, seeing as how they let America raze entire cities with firebombs and nuclear bombs.

>>51681282
I imagine that many people will keep religion around for spiritual comfort, even if all scientific evidence points to a blind and uncaring universe.

Announcing "I'm an atheist!" like it's a merit will probably get you a "Yes, and?".

>>51685638
Scientism worldview is incompatible with a higher power, or even simply powers we cannot conceive of or presently detect.

File: Fedora'd gentleman.jpg (413KB, 1200x1600px) Image search: [Google]

413KB, 1200x1600px

>>51690501
Maybe if atheists weren't such self-important, annoying cunts, they wouldn't get memed on.

>>51681282
By sending a sufficient amount of Japanese people in space. Nothing else would change.

File: 1382599083490.jpg (527KB, 896x1400px) Image search: [Google]

527KB, 896x1400px

>>51691937

Wasn't this the background to Tenra Bansho Zero? Colony ship lands and social engineering experiment ends up with Planet Japan.

The Shinto Priesthood are the gatekeepers to any tech advancements that the rival mega kingdoms make war on each other with.

File: the shapeshifters grow ever bolder, sire.jpg (19KB, 200x176px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 200x176px

>>51681282
>"""HOLY"""
>"""SHINTO"""
>"""GALACTIC"""
>"""""""""EMPIRE"""""""""""

>>51688782
>>51689482
>Prayer-powered FTL works for pastafarians. Only for pastafarians. Heathens can be aboard the ship, but at least one Paladin is needed for hyperjump.

>>51681282
>the scientific knowledge to know that their religion is provably false
This is the most fedora atheist thing I've ever read, congratulations.

>>51681282
Personal comfort and an artificial sense of community.

>>51693692
t. abdul

>>51684105
they aren't worshiping the literal statue Fedora-lord, they are worshiping who it represents.

>>51690415
uhhh I don't think so anon. Religions will survive and its going to be the abrahamic ones.

>>51691774
No they aren't? As the cliche goes, Science answers how and Religion/philosophy answers why

>>51691774

Wait...what? No it isn't. If such a thing is found, science will adapt around it. That's the point of science. Updating views to fit the data.

>>51694289
That is why it is scientism, not science.

Science will say we don't know.
Scientism will say that there is no possibility.

>>51694273
Good Science answers how. However, it is a known quantity that the ways we do science often result in false positives and false negatives. We opperate under the assumption that over the course of many, many studies these will average out in the direction of truth.

Which, relies upon the assumption that those conducting the studies are successful in withholding their bias.

>>51683069
"On a small, dusty colony world somewhere trailing of Antares, a sect of Muslim fundamentalists built a set of curious gyroscopic contraptions, designed to act as prayer mats that could point toward Earth, wherever it may be in the sky.
"This, of course, proved too impractical and expensive for actual use, but the attempt soon reached the ears of Core Worlder reporters, who ran the story to poke fun at 'those crazy colonists'
"Thus, in the years since, comparing something to a 'gyroscopic muslim' has become a common way to denote impracticality or redundancy among the myriad worlds of humanity"

>>51681282
Relatively easily.
Shinto's deities are less....well, important then the Judeo-Christian God, and the core beliefs of Shinto involve every object and place and thing having a spirit, it's "kami".

Just expand the philosophy to include other stars and planets and you're good.

>>51694682
>Which, relies upon the assumption that those conducting the studies are successful in withholding their bias
After reading papers from heavily biased people, I agree.

>>51681655
Depends on which vehicle and culture.. There's "what are you talking about, there's just meditation and enlightenment", "gods and spirits exist, but that doesn't matter, what matters is that you get enlightened", and "gods and spirits do exist and they're all along the path to enlightenment".

>>51681282

Just do what what a majority of urban East Asians do - they pay lip service and follow its customs, but it's more out of neo-Confucianism than actual worship, because deviating from the norm would be socially wrong.

>>51681319
At least, nowadays. It's less "actually believes it" and more "it's a social thing, and social things are important".

Chinese folk religion is very definitely cosmological (the underworld, resorting to the i-ching, etc.).

I can't speak about Korean muism, because there's so little on the damn topic. It factors less into modern Korean life than Shintoism does in modern Japanese life, but I'm assuming most adherents actually do believe it, given how small its population is, compared to even Abrahamic religions.

>>51690501
>implying there aren't atheists and agnostics who are critical of the holier-than-thou, know-it-all attitude of Hitchens-style antitheists

>>51681282
>I bet you're fun at parties...

>>51694989
The more retarded Hitchens kind are evidence that atheism is no cure for stupidity.

File: 1421540353039.jpg (487KB, 1632x1837px) Image search: [Google]

487KB, 1632x1837px

>>51694273
>the "why" meme

>>51695034

hitchens did nothing wrong (some of his follower on the other hand...)

>>51695108
He wrote shit reviews & shit books. Profit matters more than legit quality.

>>51695108
DAE mother theresa literally went to my house and raped my kids because i don't like religious figures and i get countless edgelords to eat that shit up because they got dragged to church as kids

DAE every argument is impotent exaggeration, bluster, personal attacks, "no ur stupid", and ~~moral rightness~~ while spending more time bitching about the church than undermining its "corruption" by doing something for society beyond "DAE invisible sky fairy"

>>51695137
>Hitchens shares this quality with megachurches and certain Christian preachers in America

>>51694273

religion is on a fool's crusade. there is no way to answer "why". there is no why.

>>51695180
It's sad how extremes can look so alike.

>>51685213
Hell, one of the oldest Jewish philosophers (way before Jesus was a twinkle in God's eye) even basically wrote down that if any part of the Judaism is scientifically wrong, it's only pious to throw the wrong shit out.

>>51695197
Is this an assumption or a conclusion from a logical argument?

>>51695217
I think the medieval church had a similar stance with literal readings.

>>51695206
Watch out, anon, you're going to get a lot of shrieking neckbeard Hitchen-humpers screaming about how they're not similar to fundies at all because they don't suicide bomb brown people for invisible sky fairy, despite using the same fucking rhetoric, methods, delusion, and sheeple-herding.

>>51695236
Maybe they'll follow their idol & get brain cancer. Given how cancerously bad some of Hitchens' nonsense was, it's oddly poetic.

>>51695262
If only, anon. If only.

in b4 jesus and mo webcomic strip getting posted

>>51695235
Sounds right, though it depends on which era and what branch and what country, etc. Aquinas had a lot on this topic, didn't he?

>>51695262
But he died of esophageal cancer.

>>51694249
No I think the abrahamic ones will die out.
It's inevitable, the only one with a long term survival is Judaism, becuase it is more liberal.

>>51695410
Don't forget liberal islamic sects, especially Western ones.

Given current trends with Francis, Catholicism can also be pretty fucking liberal. There'll be resistance (some senior Catholic clergy in America split with the church and allied with fundamental protestants), of course.

Lutheranism (despite the founder being a raging anti-semite neocon) also became pretty liberal in the last few decades - allowing LGBT practitioners and clergy, etc. There's a reason Francis went to strengthen relations between the Catholics and the main Lutheran branch.

>in b4 /pol/

>>51695409
probably from all the shit he spewed and ate

>>51695761
No, it was from his drinking habit. Eating feces even regularly doesn't increase your risk of cancer; I should know.

File: chimarvamidium.jpg (364KB, 1305x1209px) Image search: [Google]

364KB, 1305x1209px

>>51681932
I feel there aren't enough instances of this.

>>51695357
Lots.

A later example, Georges Lemaitre said:

"The writers of the Bible were illuminated more or less — some more than others — on the question of salvation. On other questions they were as wise or ignorant as their generation. Hence it is utterly unimportant that errors in historic and scientific fact should be found in the Bible, especially if the errors related to events that were not directly observed by those who wrote about them . . . The idea that because they were right in their doctrine of immortality and salvation they must also be right on all other subjects, is simply the fallacy of people who have an incomplete understanding of why the Bible was given to us at all"

There's earlier people but I don't remember their names.

>>51681282

>Shinto is scientifically proven false

I'm not an expert on Shinto, but from what I understand, it's just about respecting beautiful natural places, thinking about your ancestors, respecting your elders, ritual cleanliness, and a small amount anthropomorphizing of nature

>>51682074

>don't see any atheism hate threads from Christians

Do you not post on 4chan regularly?

>>51688782
>>51689482
>>51693644
>Navigators using Meme Magic rather than Melange

>>51683492
The 'purest' strain of Buddhism would its early forms soon after it was established. Even then it was a constantly evolving religion.

>>51688466
>Assuming you give access to large volumes of information and theories on, say, quantum mechanics, to a general public it's not that difficult to think how someone might interpret that ''scientific knowledge'' into spiritual thinking.
This is already pretty common practice. Physicists are constantly being irritated by new age types re-purposing their language and concepts.

>>51694704
I laughed.

>>51696293
except that like there being no god or gods, there are no spirits or kami

>>51682212
That isn't Ouchi. How many times do we need to go through this?

>>51681655
the only thing you can prove wrong about Buddhism is reincarnation

enlightenment, the four noble truths, and the middle/eightfold path are all (for lack of a better word) true
>I would also say, for comparison, that the middle/eightfold path is exactly the same as Aristotle's notion of the 'good' in Nicomachean Ethics, i.e. 'good = action in accordance with virtue' - and 'virtue' being the same as Buddha's description of the middle path, moderation, and/or doing the same amount of good for others as you do for yourself and always acting without pride

>>51686609
>God outgrew playing with his pet lizards
According to Judaism he's still spending much of his time playing with Leviathan. Well, maybe he didn't need all the other lizards.

>>51696766
>the only thing you can prove wrong about Buddhism is reincarnation
How?

>>51681810
except that they had VERY good reason to in that universe (similar although not as extreme as the 40k universe, which itself is ENTIRELY based on Dune) to be religious - because Paul actually existed (and later The God Emperor Leto II)

>>51696797
in a scientific sense, once we have a grand unified theory it will explain everything without relying on any supernatural explanations - so I say this based on the ultimate goal of science (which is to give an account/understanding of how things actually 'are')

>>51696766
If the soul is undetectable to scientific methods, and any knowledge of past lives is scrubbed on reincarnation then there's really no way to disprove it.

>>51696819
You have no goddamn clue what a GUT is.

>>51696797
>>51696819
said another way,
it's the same as saying science proves the existence of god or gods wrong in Judeo/Christian/Islamic and Pegan religions, or kami in Shinto, or reincarnation in Buddhism/Hinduism, etc.

>>51681282
40k's human religions are basically ancestor worship and animism IN SPACE

>>51681655
Yes it is, everyone who tells you otherwise is a faggot Western Buddhist on the same level as those ultraliberal Christians who think everything in the Bible is a metaphor up to and including Jesus.
>in b4 it's symbolic
All religious cosmologies are pure symbolism, Buddhism is not any more special in that regard.

>>51696843
yes, a GUT unified the standard model of physics (i.e. particle physics) with quantum physics

and since physics basically explains all the other sciences, a GUT will do that completely

>>51696891
edit: unifies*

ITT: Retards think science can prove negatives.

>>51696891
Retard, unifying two physical models will do jack and shit to explain theological concepts. You also have no damn clue what "the standard model" is.

And no, physics has fuckall to do with a giant portion of the sciences.

>>51696834
see my responses:
>>51696819
>>51696848

>>51696915
ITT: a troll who doesn't understand Occam's razor or math

>>51696934
or formal logic apparently

>>51695828
I like how eating waste products doesn't cause damage to the digestive system, but alcohol does. :V

>>51696996
Oh, no; eating waste products can be plenty harmful to the digestive system. Just not in the form of increased risk of cancer.

>>51696922
That doesn't make any sense. You are essentially claiming that a scientific theory will explain away something which inherently rejects scientific explanation.
A grand unified theory will do no more to prove or disprove religion than any other advance in physics.

>>51696996
Ethanol in modern liquors is a synthesized poison, eating waste products is a natural risk.

>>51682017
If a ship is sufficiently old and experienced/lived in/battletested could it be considered a shinto shrine?

Would the ship's AI adopt the personality of it's "kami"?

>>51681955
Depends on what sect.

>>51681282
How the fuck do you disprove souls?

>>51697164
can you measure them? see them? touch them? provide any empirical evidence for their existence? too bad.

>>51697191
You can't prove a negative.

>>51697031
lol, now who doesn't understand the concept of a GUT?

Imagine knowing exactly how everything works leaving no room at all for anything supernatural

Now let's get to some sci fi thought experiments:

Imagine being able to prove things like the existence of other universes and eventually (hopefully) meeting intelligent alien life who makes our human-centric gods seem woefully insignificant and lacking in any sort of ability to take part in matters larger than a single solar system...
Imagine meeting intelligent alien life whose physics is EXACTLY the same as ours, because that's how physics works! And then imagine that we compare religions and find they are as different as modern mammals are from a trilobite. Wouldn't that look funny? Wouldn't it look terribly primitive to be an interstellar/intergalactic civilization who still practices religion?

think about it

>>51697031
and btw, science has, since its inception, pushed religion further and further into more and more primitive corners of the world as its advances continue

eventually everyone will have to accept science and deny religion

>>51697229
>>51697262
Is this bait?

>>51697229
>>51697262
and after hundreds or thousands of years of recorded history in which scientific advancements are made where not a single supernatural event occurs those ideas will erode at an ever increasing rate

>>51697292
Yes, it's bait. The whole thread has been mostly bait with some nice understanding of Shintoism and psychology interspersed.

>>51697292
lol, trolls can't think

how did I forget that!?

>>51681282
>How would you transplant a religion like Shinto work in a space setting where people presumably all have easy access to the scientific knowledge to know that their religion is provably false?
Nothing about Shinto, from my limited understanding of it, is "provably false".

It would basically look like the Religion of the Force from Star Wars, except more formalized forms and rituals for practitioners and more rituals in general for commoners to do/believe in.

>>51697355
forget trolls, I smell a christian

File: 350full.jpg (35KB, 350x178px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 350x178px

>>51697369
wow, the trolling continues...

dear troll,
instead of doing this again let's just reference an earlier post where you say the exact same thing, only with fewer words
>>51696797
and then this is the response
>>51696819
>>51696848
and then you continue
>>51696843
and so on...

this trolling is boring and at this point the discussion seems closed:

religion is not compatible with a futuristic (i.e. advanced) understanding of science (for argument's sake, to the point of a GUT)

have a nice day

>>51697433
>wow, the trolling continues...
Nigger I wasn't even that guy. Fuck off with you shitty trolling.

And how fucking dare you bring Robin Williams into this? The best part of you ran down your mother's leg.

>>51697448
lol, called it

>>51697469
>lol, called it
Oh I see. Yeah, I'm done with you, troll. 8/10 made me post.

>>51681282
>provably false

Really, can you prove there are no spirits living in the local shrine? They are supernatural beings. Spirits can't be detected by scientific means, but if you piss them off your luck is ruined and your ancestors will be shamed in the afterlife!

>>51697568
Occam killed all the spirits with his razor

>>51682022
You know why I click on threads like these? I'm not euphoric, I'm nostalgic.

Showing my age perhaps, but I remember when the biggest arguments on the internet were over dumb shit like this, rather than American politics and/or lesbians in videogames.

We used to think we were better than that stuff, when did we let the "real world" start mattering?

>>51697628
Hello me, fancy meeting I here.

>>51694249
With enough time, I think today religions will change radically, and radical shifts are not impossible. (Like how chrisrianism was in the western world)

>>51697607
Logical parsimony is a tool of analysis not a law of physics. It doesn't tell you what is or isn't real; it just indicates the odds of one explanation are better than another explanation.

>>51688782
>>51689482
>>51693644
>>51696617
Clerics Of Kek serving as the engines for spelljammers built by SpaceX in a modern setting.

>>51681282

We can disprove most literal interpretations of Religions today, but people still believe, either through lack of education, outright willful ignorance, or turning religion metaphorical/allegorical instead of literal. I see no reason, even in a setting where man kind has FTL and has met and interacted with sapient alien life, that there wouldn't be some sort of religion.

>>51697628

I miss those days.

File: huh.gif (676KB, 220x258px) Image search: [Google]

676KB, 220x258px

>>51681282
>religion
>provably false

>>51697164

what's a soul?

>>51697607
If it's possible to use a rule of thumb to do that, maybe I should use "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" to destroy a country.

>>51696934
>Occam's razor
How many here actually read Occam? His razor isn't a law of the universe.

>>51698202
It's what you have and your computer doesn't have.

File: echopraxia ending.png (479KB, 392x650px) Image search: [Google]

479KB, 392x650px

>>51697433
>religion is not compatible with a futuristic (i.e. advanced) understanding of science

Peter Watts' Bicamerals.

Imagine if every intelligence (AI or transhuman) which exceeds a certain level becomes religious and with the same specific religion. With enough raw brainpower, they can intuitively tell something about reality which we're just too stupid to recognize.

>>51681282
> that their religion is provably false
the argument from reason always gives a shred of hope for all religions

>>51700893
that's a mighty dubious posit

all other trends show the smarter you get the less religious you get

>>51697903
>>51700300
I love watching trolls trip over themselves

nice attempt to argue for supernaturalism though, kudos

>>51701459
too bad I eat metaphysical dualism for breakfast

File: 1485297665149.jpg (63KB, 640x482px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 640x482px

>>51701410
Fictional. The original inspiration was by Peter Watts, IE, the guy whose scifi novels have vampires in them. Not realistic in other words.

>>51685499
>England is almost there.
England has changed hands a shitload of times. Japan's deal is its isolated

>>51697229
>GUT
>knowing exactly how everything works leaving no room at all for anything supernatural
t. failed high school physics

File: 1385911397160.png (13KB, 255x216px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 255x216px

>>51700394
>souls are penises

>>51681282

Kept alive as a cultural tradition, kinda like real-life Shinto. Actual belief is not strong enough to, say, make you sacrifice a child to bring on rains, but you'll still attend the fire festival in the summer and pray to your ancestor shrine in the morning. If pushed you'd probably admit that praying doesn't do anything except make you feel better, but everyone's polite enough not to push, and it really doesn't bother anyone that you do it anyway. Just like you don't bother that guy that stays home watching TV whenever there's a ceremony day.

>>51702549
But my computer has a penis. Therefore, souls cannot be penises.

>>51702564
Damn. Uh, don't tell me...

Driver's license?

>>51702576
I think the computer in Google's car has one.

File: 1340224492937.png (70KB, 534x443px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 534x443px

>>51702593
Nose hair? Fear of heights? Small-town bridge tournament trophy?

>>51697031

Nobody needs to completely disprove religion. It simply has to be pointed out that there's not enough compelling evidence for the truth of any one religion, and then one just has to remember that Bertrand Russell closed off the entire rhetorical back door of "well you can't disprove God" with his celestial teapot analogy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

Is it possible that there's a God? Yes, especially when his possible existence is defined in a way that's unfalsifiable. Is there strong evidence for the existence of this God? No. Is it reasonable to believe something exists merely because it is asserted to exist? No.

End of argument.

>>51702641
Can you prove to me that you exist?

File: 1424142719973.png (5KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 400x400px

>>51702661
>solipsism
Oh boy here we go again

>>51702797
Can you prove to me that solipsism exists?

>>51701459
It's even more enjoyable watching the trolls argue better than you. Seriously, they at least have an idea of what william of ockam meant. You just say his name without much subsistence.

>>51702641
The irony is that not only do various religious cite evidence of varying "compellingness" but that teapot is honestly an overated mess. It immediately assumes things like "you can't prove". As >>51702661 cites, that teapot can be used as some pro-solipsism tool. Funny thing, Russell's own handwave of solipsism is pretty bad as well. Bad arguments cut both ways & Russell's teapot is one of them.

>>51681282
>provably false
most legitimate religions aren't able to be proven false, especially by everyday people.
for example there has yet to be anything that has disproved Christianity
Evolution
>lines up enough with the actual texts of the religion to not disprove it. also can and has been argued that we got the only version that people would understand at that time
Big bang
>what caused it is the reason it's still a theory

there are more examples of this but these are the best two examples

>>51681804
he's right
if you can't find something, that doesn't mean it does not exist. it means that the state of its existence is unknown.

to be proven to not exist would require proof it could not exist, for example we know the world isn't flat because we've seen it is in fact round, but we can not prove there is no such thing as a soul because we do not even know how to check for such a thing

File: tfw.jpg (53KB, 958x973px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 958x973px

>>51702323
>Peter "Autist will re-awake to their cool Vampire heritage and kill all the normies and finally inherit Earth" Watts

Just read up on the projects that Richard Dawkins is running together with some philosophers and a whole lot of (secretly) atheistic priests and ministers.

They're trying to salvage what is left of various religions by removing God and all supernatural shite, the end result being that eventually this will result in a set of cultural knowledge and rules devoid of the crazier shit in religion, and instead just relying on 10,000 years of humans interacting with humans and the knowledge that lies within that contact.

A religion in the future where everyone is atheist would be not about contact with God, but all about contact with other humans.

Alternatively, you let the singularity happen, and the machine intelligence just leaves mankind alone, only to occasionally sending back a monthly radio message with 1,000 years of human-mind-level scientific progress. In that case, go right on ahead with religion as it is. Because in this case, God is real, because we humans created It.

>>51697031
If something rejects scientific explanation, it rejects our senses. Our senses are based on the laws of physics, since we need to judge our relationship within these laws to propagate our genes.

Therefore, something that rejects scientific explanation rejects the laws of physics. Something that rejects scientific explanation rejects the universe. Therefore, something that rejects scientific explanation rejects reality and is therefore not real.

>>51706045
It's called secular humanism, also Dewey's Common Faith

>>51681282
faith is important, and not a negative thing

Also a love of the unknown. And if there are no unknowns, perhaps we have to create them.

>>51700893
Rorschach didn't seem very religious.

>>51706074
Or simply exists outside our reality. Predating it would be a good example.

>>51706153
>something existing outside reality
In which case it's irrelevant because reality is a self-contained system. As soon as something lies outside our reality, it can no longer interact with our reality. Lrn2cosmic inflation dumdum.

File: 1328800696595.jpg (57KB, 500x335px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 500x335px

>>51690501
*tips fedora while nodding respectfully towards (you)*

>>51706227
*tips underaged boy on dick respectfully towards (you)*

>>51706045

I genuinely believe that A.I could replace gods and religions in all but name.
It would lead to a situation where humanity would follow or support certain "benevolent" A.I´s.

While I do not oppose atheism - I can´t see a complete atheistic future as a very likely future.
Should our current faiths disappear...we will find new ones.

>>51681282
>How would you transplant a religion like Shinto work in a space setting where people presumably all have easy access to the scientific knowledge to know that their religion is provably false?

Have them find a Shinto space temple, obviously.

And like Space-aliens show up and have better technology and are like "Yo, Shintoism is actually correct *teleport away*"

2 ez

>>51706045
Do you really need such a big concerted effort to write "Just be nice to each other"?

File: 1450503866067.png (34KB, 180x180px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 180x180px

>>51706250

Nailed it anon.

>>51706301
Well, if you follow a benevolent AI, is that AI your God or just your government?

I can imagine it taking religious contexts, and it will create some interesting mental images in creative contexts, but personally... I think when we get superintelligent AI's that point humanity to some path, they'll just be like a new government. Just better, faster, more efficient, cheaper and non-corruptable.

>>51682517
>Hiroshi Ouchi
... I literally thought you were using 'ouchi' to express how fucking painful that pic looks.

File: The Gods are alive by highdarktemplar.jpg (138KB, 1191x670px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 1191x670px

>>51706150
The Bicamerals certainly where.

Also, has everyone missed the fact that this is a fiction board? It doesn't matter that real life religion has no evidence and as such is almost certainly incorrect. We're talking about fictional settings here. It would be like showing up in a thread on magic and shitposting that it doesn't exist. Technically you'd be correct, but missing the point.

>>51684179
>>51683997
When someone in a dying craft says "c'mon baby, hold together just a little longer..." who exactly do you think they're talking to?

It's a prayer, versed in hope and pleading, to an inanimate object of metal and plastics to keep them alive until they arrive safely.

They may not see their vehicle as a god, but they still personify it and offer up words of encouragement and so on.

>>51706768

In the beginning ? Absolutely.
I do agree the government comparison makes much more sense in an early stage.

National personification goes a tad into that direction, think Uncle Sam, Mother Russia.

If said A.I starts to take over every aspect of daily life
- from growing crops, to raising children,
I can´t shake the feeling that humans would go much further than just personification.

>>51682178
>one that happened to be discovered by a woman, who are know for being good at discovering things.
the only thing that makes it plausible is that radiation killed her because she was a dumbfuck

>>51681967
Nah it's more like
>god buried shit about creationism that was provably false in the bible to test our faith

>>51682236
>/pol/ hates Christianity too
What? Try posting nice stuff about atheism there or bad stuff about Christianity, see how that goes down.

>Guys they worship like Richard Spencer and Milo are self avowed atheists
Milo isn't a self-avowed atheist at all, what in the fuck are you talking about?

>don't browse /pol/ regularly
You don't say.

>cause it's a cesspit
Obviously not too irregularly though.

>accusing anyone you don't like it being a /pol/ user is one of the most assblasted things you can do lol
Amen.

>>51682576
It was a matter of the ends being worth the means. He was going to die a horrible painful death no matter what. By prolonging that death a few days they gained knowledge that would save other people from similar fates many hundreds of times over.

>>51694989
>knows of the term antitheist
>still insists on using the term agnostic incorrectly

>>51695206
When did Hitchens ever have a mega church, where was his literal fucking mansion? They're nothing alike.

Also shouldn't an extreme atheist be a communist who wants to boil priests alive rather then some journalist who wrote some books which hurt your precious fee fees?

>>51708544
>What? Try posting nice stuff about atheism there or bad stuff about Christianity, see how that goes down.

Implying it's not a pretty even split, and that bringing up the topic of religion isn't enough to stir up the shitstorm regardless of who you're trying to bait.

>>51695262
What a wonderfully christian sentiment to express, what a credit to your religion you are.

>>51695409
We're talking about religious folks here anon: they don't really care too much about facts.

>>51695743
>martin luther was a neocon
Jesus christ I've heard of that term being a bit of a buzzword but this confirms it.

Also your entire post is just absolute bullshit, there's never going to be any real market for watered down weaksauce versions of actual religions, you'd have to eradicate the older versions of the bible/koran like some insane chinese autocrat to cover up how much of a debasement of the religion you've created. There's a reason why religion is declining in the west outside of crazy fundamentalist usa, and it's not the growth in scientific knowledge, people are just as scientifically illiterate as ever just look at the popularity of alternative medicine.

>>51697212
But if you can't prove something exists why should we believe it does? Should we just believe in everything that can be conjectured without question? This line of reasoning can only lead to ridiculous outcomes, the only reason people don't realize that is because it is solely applied to supernatural matters were no proof exists and nothing else.

>>51708832
>If you can't prove something exists, why believe in it
Comfort and tradition, anon.

>>51708728
I don't know what /pol/ you've been looking at buddy, they're a very heavily pro-religious board, atheism's viewed as too left wing.

>>51708887
Why can't they just admit it, why would the rather take refuge in honest to god solipsism rather then just admit they're not really very logical thinkers? Most people aren't, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

>>51706313
All the world's religions apparently had to go to a hell of an effort so

>>51708755
>Credit to religion
>implying you must be religious to recognise shitty arguments
That explains your idiocy.

Look here, I'm an asshole with a low tolerance for stupidity. People like Hitchens and their philosophically illiterate drivel are to scholarship as Twilight is to romance. It's shit, stop guzzling it.

>>51706045
>>51706313
Ever heard of the projection theory?
It basically means God is a projection of your supergo (in freudian terms). Makes sense if you think about how God(s) tend to a figures of authority (like fathers).

Anyway 'just be nice to each other' or the golden rule
>"Do to others what you want them to do to you. This is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets" (Matthew 7:12 NCV, see also Luke 6:31).
as it is called in Christianity and most western cultural contexts does lack the element of enforcing authority.
It does however sum up the underlying philosophy quite well. But without the authority to enforce it via punishment or whatever else incentive it lacks the punch a divine decree does.
In the olden times where it might have been more difficult to enforce certain laws and superstition and religious belief had much more power over people it was probably better at assuring a functional society.
That's just my personal thoughts on that though.

But if you look at the old testament there is a lot of practical everyday stuff in there. Not to eat pig's meat for fear of trichinella, to clean your hands before and after a meal for hygienic reasons etc.pp.

We replaced those laws with secular laws and religion these days is usually only something considered relevant in ethical/moral decisions, when it used to be something that permeated every part of life for the people back in the day.

>>51708832
I'm sure this anon dislikes history, philosophy, or even the physical sciences. Proofs are damn rare outside mathematics. We can't prove that every historical document isn't in some way forged & rely on inductive reasoning 24/7. At best we can have high levels of confidence and that's it. Do you study the sciences or philosophy of science?

>>51708941
They don't take refuge in solpsism, the ones I've talked to cite it as evidence of how shitty atheist logic bites itself in the ass as hard as shitty religious logic.

>>51708726
You misunderstood what that anon said. It's about how opposite extremes behave equally irrationally. Just as that drunken moron spews philosophically illiterate drivel, the creationist do scientifically illiterate shit. Besides, a church in my local community does charities & food drives, what good has Hitchens done except remember himself from the gene pool?

>>51709372
>the creationist do scientifically illiterate shit.
Not the guy you are talking to it's just something that bothered me and i haven't had an opportunity to talk about it.
The pope basically said when asked about creationists 'it's an American problem', i.e. the church has nothing to do with it and doesn't want anything to do with creationists.
But creationists seem like the most fundamentalist loonies.
I wish the (catholic) church would have a more aggressive stand on the issue, and explicitly and publicly condemn that kind of bullshit. It's harmful, but I get the feeling nothing is done about it.

And then you see news reports about people lobbying for this insane drivel to be taught in schools.
It really worried me sometimes. And Trump is president now.

In the words of David Bowie 'I'm afraid of Americans'.

>>51709565
If I remember right, the pope went & said evolution is true. He's got a master's in chemistry I think.

>>51691815
>Maybe if [people I only interact with via a tuvo-mongolian throat singing forum] weren't such self-important, annoying cunts, they wouldn't get memed on.
FTFY

Come off it man. Claiming anyone is anything based on your interactions with their group on 4chan is pure autism.

File: mqdefault.jpg (7KB, 320x180px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 320x180px

>>51697433
>>51697433
Glad to see this where the thread ends in terms of discussion

I love solving an OP

>>51691774
And once upon a time, we couldn't go any lower than the atomic level of detail. In its early stages, quantum physics was seen as an attempt to put religion in science.
And any ideology that defines itself as "not that ideology" is, by the nature of tying itself to its enemy, severely limited to only blind disagreement with that enemy.
Guess how 95% of all atheists describe atheism? Not religion. Guess how most people think of the relationship between science and religion? That science is naturally opposed to religion. While many religions go "science is the method of describing God's world", most scientists who try that get mocked. Thus, science will blinded to any data that may be interpreted as support for magic or science, or will just create huge, ugly, house of cards models that raise even more questions.
But hey, apparently that's better than atheists letting religion have even one Planck length of influence in the world.