Mages. Why the fuck are there "mages" in a modern roleplaying

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>>51630729


2/2


You wouldn't see a bizarre concentration of all magical utility in a guy with no other skill set, remember, this works with the assumption that almost anyone can learn at least some magic. Rather, you'd see it distributed among people with other skill sets, often supplementing their more mundane abilities.


Except of course, TTRPG systems are heavy on the former and very light on the latter. What systems do distribute the magical abilities tend to be more towards modern, "urban" fantasy, where magical power is kept on the down-low, and often kept out of sight. Why the fuck do so many people go for such a retarded construction?

If you had access to a power that let you wave your hands and say some funny words to solve problems with barely any effort, would you really bother to learn any practical skills?

>>51630734
>Why the fuck do so many people go for such a retarded construction?
Because D&D 3.5 ruined a generation's creativity.

>>51630826
And people will defend it. Someone actually defended the idea of a "vegetarian" flaw for a warforged the other day, which doesn't eat in the first place. 3e causes brain damage.

>>51630872
Hoo boy, you're opening up that can of worms again? Because the whole point of that fiasco was that you're a shit GM for kicking people out because you couldn't be assed to pay attention to what homebrew rules you're allowing.

>>51630729
The only systems I can think of where this is the case are D&D, clones/twists/ripoffs of D&D, and systems that run settings where
>just about anyone can learn some magic provided they put the time and effort into it
is false.

Read more, suck cock less.

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>>51630729
>Rather, you're going to see magic use interlaced through other professions. The blacksmith enchants his forge to get hotter temperatures and a better temper in whatever he's making. The farmer weaves a spell to deflect a rainstorm away from his crops at the wrong season. The warrior knows a spell or two for an extra burst of energy, or to heal his wounds. The thief uses a bit of magic to help him remain unseen, or to pick a particularly difficult lock, and so on.
Oddly, under the only modern world (or near) systems I've played in where magic was common, this was exactly how things went.

In say, Shadowrun or Mage, magic is extremely uncommon, and, particularly in Mage, involves a whole lot of dedication and mental discipline (to the point where you risk breaking your connection with reality), so yeah, any other skills are going to suffer, and magic is so rare and so powerful, that you're going to specialize in it like a madman.

Granted, both games have things like Physical Adepts, and Martial-Art oriented mages, that are buff as fuck and basically muscle wizards who work some of their magic through their beefcakeitude, and thus do not fit the classic wizard stereotype.

But in games where nearly everyone can use magic, say maybe Castle Falkenstein, or some Gurp world variants, while magic does eat a lot of points, it's used to one degree or another by every profession, and maybe a handful of characters completely specialize in its general use.

So I'm not sure what game world you'd be complaining about - is it a house composed one?

>>51630729
Well, OP, this is applicable to any human discipline, and yet the world is made of specialists.

And if you don't like mages, don't play a class-based rpg. There are a bunch of them, even for modern fantasy settings.

>blackmith/farmer/warrior/...
I though we were talking about modern settings?

>>51630935
Oh, wait, you said "modern roleplaying system", and I somehow misinterpreted this to mean a game that takes place in the modern world.

As you were.

Fantasy era mages just follow fantasy mage motifs, that's about all there is to it. Not that even a shit game like D&D doesn't provide various magical hybrid classes through splatbooks... But also D&D, or at least most variants there of, don't allow "anyone" to cast magic, it tends to be a rare inherited trait, or the result of a rare supernatural influence or encounter.

I mean, if you ran a D&D campaign in which everyone could use magic, and didn't have well, everyone using magic, then yes, something is wrong... But such campaigns are rare.

>>51630729
I fucking feel you man. Hyper-specialized "magic as science" types are awful.

I do feel like there is potential in magic being somewhat out of reach, inaccessible and not a part of most mainstream societies instead of "the usual premises". Like it's something used subtly and rarely by mountaintop ascetics and characters who are only vaguely human.

>>51631000
>Fantasy era mages just follow fantasy mage motifs, that's about all there is to it.
Well that, and classically, it's a balancing function of their role in combat - even if that balance is invariably broken as fuck.

>You are big beefcake with ton o hitpoints.
>I r glass cannon.
>You go front. Me mortar.
>Cleric go somewhere inbetween.
>No one know where thief went.

In these sort of combat-role oriented, something that can drops nukes and warps reality, tends to be made of paper mache in order to compensate and to provide the other players with unique combat roles of their own.

>>51630729
>just about anyone can learn some magic provided they put the time and effort into it
That's far from true in most settings, even if we assume that everyone has access to grimoires and masters.

RL comparison: Autohypnosis is pretty useful in everyday life. Yet I don't think that a lot of people know how to use it.

>>51631093
>mages are always OP.
have you tried not playing DnD?

>>51630729
Why isn't every human just good at everything? Why would you settle for just being a thief who can magically pick locks or a fighter who can heal their wounds? Why not have every single skill set? Furthermore, why don't real life humans learn every skill set? It'd only make them more desirable in today's economy and would be more impressive to potential mates.

Oh yeah, because learning skill sets takes a long time and a lot of practice and we have other people to learn other skill sets that we can cooperate with for mutual benefit.

>>51631147
>have you tried not playing DnD?
yes

>>51631147
>have you tried not playing DnD?
Well, yes, but when I say "classically", that's certainly the game I am referring to.

I mean, that was the original intent, and why those classes use the hit dice and tables they do, and have the equipment restrictions they do. Otherwise, obviously, unless the group is particularly drama oriented, everyone's going to be the exact same heavily armored self-healing sword swinging lock picking fireball shooting back stabbing reality warping death machine, that occasionally detects and disarms traps.

>>51631210
This is why these threads never go anywhere.

>Thing is an Issue in RPG's
Not in systems, X, Y, or X.

>I was talking about D&D!
It's still not an issue in 5e or AD&D.

>I'm talking about 3.5 and Pathfinder
Well there's your problem. Have you tried not eating Shit?

>>51631260
>It's still not an issue in 5e or AD&D.
Umm... I've yet to play 5e, but I spent about half of my life playing AD&D, and it sure as fuck yes was an issue, more than in any other version I've played (even 3.5 and Pathfinder).

But the topic isn't about how mages are OP, but why mages look like dweebs incapable of doing anything else.

Again, the practical excuse being a combination of game balance, and magic being rare and time consuming to train in such settings. In addition to, well, style.

But again, I don't know of a world with common and easy access magic, where it isn't exactly as OP wants it to be.

>>51630729
Specifically to piss you off, because it's cute when you're angry.

>>51631359
Eberron.

>>51631381
And we're back to...
>have you tried not playing DnD?
...But I never played Eberron, and I'm not familiar with the world or rule variants.

The green text meme is actually a problem in this case, as if it's based on the core D&D rules, that's a system that creates classes by enforcing specific differences between them (eg. mage weak, fighter stonk). It doesn't work well, at least from a point of immersion, in a world where anyone and everyone can use magic.

So, yeah, you need a different system to make such a world palatable without straining, or at least the changes you would need to make to the existing system would be so dramatic that it'd be more sensible to start from scratch.

>>51631471
I can't remember the name of the system for the life of me, but I recall one that involved some sort of periodic reality storms, and everyone had magic, but the type of magic you used affected your attributes.

So, if you selected fire balls and lightning bolts, you got smarter, if you selected summoning spells, more charismatic, and if selected super-magic punch, you got bigger and stronger. There was some circular flow chart with tiers for all these options, and you had so many points to invest in it. Very vydia gamey, but this was the 90's, so it was kinda unique.

Pigeon holed you like mad, but certainly explained why certain types of spell casters were as they were.

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You're just mad about my magic powers I'm a wizard irl

>>51630872
What thread was that? Can't find it anymore.

Want to go check for (you)s from amidst the shitstorm.

>>51631210
OP said "Why the fuck are there "mages" in a modern roleplaying system?"
That's not classical.

>>51631903
Follow the conversation back a few posts to learn of the arcane magic behind it.

>>51630729
I wholeheartedly agree but you're still a faggot for posting a badwrongfun thread.