So let me ask, are there any human worlds, settlements and colonies

>>51624207
Of course. The unimaginable size of our galaxy, combined with warp storms cutting off regions for millenia means that there are at least hundreds of worlds populated with humans that don't know the iron fist of the Imperium. The Great Crusade absorbed most of these worlds, but not all.

As for your idea, well, once that letter is sent the Imperium would roll up with a fleet and fuck them over hard. The Imperium might be a bureaucratric mess but it would not allow an independent human empire to exist. The only reason Chaos and Tau get away with having human rebels is because they're strong enough to fend off the Imperium's response, or at least make it too much effort to be worth doing.

>>51624207
Yes, Macharius even encountered a human world so advanced he couldn't subdue it and was forced to destroy it by redirecting a meteor towards it. Ultimately the Imperium doesn't control the majority of the galaxy, it is made up of billions of pockets. Outside of those pockets are Orcs, minor xenos, Eldar Maiden Worlds, tomb worlds, and yes even human settlements that aren't part of the Imperium either because the Imperium hasn't found them yet, or subduing them would take more effort than it is worth.

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>>51624207
Is that image supposed to be some precursor to the Systems Alliance?

>>51624383
>encountered a human world so advanced he couldn't subdue it and was forced to destroy it by redirecting a meteor towards it.

Welp another reason why the imperium of man is not exactly the best of humanity and is actually pretty much the worst of humanity. I know, I know muh grimdank, but realistically the imperium would evetually collapse by pretty much shooting itself on the foot constantly and acting like the way they are.

Plus I'm gonna assume the independent human colonial system that OP's talking about might be one of those that are "not worth fighting" for some reason asides from the pic he uses.

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>>51624207
>So how'd it turn out then?
One of two things happens. The Imperium decides to invade and the Secessionists are crushed and brought into line.

Or because Felicity is so tolerant and multicultural some other "ideologies" spring up inside of it.

>>51624498
>is actually pretty much the worst of humanity.
Not really. Having a Social Democracy doesn't even kind of work when literally everything in the Galaxy is out to kill or subvert you.

The Imperium genociding heretics and rebels is completely necessary.

>>51624498
The Imperium acts this way mostly to survive Chaos. Human worlds that are not properly under control and spawn psykers, quickly turn bad most of the time. And who knows? Maybe they've lasted as an Empire because they use the Warp with the benediction of the Dark Gods. Allowing them to live is then providing many human souls to the Gods of Chaos on a regular basis. Which is both bad for Humanity in general and for the Imperium in particular

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>>51624207

The Imperium holds a 'million' worlds.

Out of the galaxy.

This is a pathetically low number. Numerous Imperials have engaged in Crusades or expeditions which have come across human empires and statelets, some more powerful than the Imperium in the immediate sense. There's nothing that bars a rather rich and modern human statelet from existing, even in the Segmentum Solar - the math just adds up to it. "Pirates" and "Raiders" might literally be the navies of these statelets, for example, mislabelled to save face.

I personally think that the Imperium is just the biggest connected network of humans, not the only one - far from it. And since it's been around twenty thousand years since the first Psykers popped up enmasse amongst humanity, I think the ones that did survive have either policies in place to cull them or they embrace them (and chaos, sure), but there's nothing barring a not!Terragen sphere or even United Federation of Planets (itself which holds a small part of the galaxy and seems to be reaching practical limits of hard power) from existing out there. And past a point, the Imperium will have to suck it up and admit they can't take out those humans since it'll be too much for relatively too little - that's how pressed the Imperium is. And even the ones they can steamroll, they have to reach, first. If a STL empire exists in the middle of a warp storm with a culture that kills psykers, chances are the Imperium or even the galaxy at large, save maybe Necrons, Orcs, or Nids, might ever come along their way. And mind, Humans fought Orcs during the Dark Age as well, so even that might not be a problem sans a war of quality over quantity or w/e.

>>51624207
Yeah there are. I don't remember the name, but in the Only War setting there's a small imdependant human faction that's loosely modeled on the Roman Republic

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>>51624207
>So how'd it turn out then?

See: The Interex civlilzation

Spoiler
They're all dead now

>>51625158
>a culture that kills psykers
How can a space faring civlization exist without Psykers? How do they communicate FTL without astropaths? How do they navigate without Navigators, who are similarly mutated to psykers?

>>51625158
Anon that's just one source. Other sources place it at billions.

>>51624498
>Implying they aren't supposed to be the worst

>>51625158
>Implying every planet is inhabitable

>>51624207
The galaxy is enormous, so there are plenty of independent human polities out of sheer necessity. None of them are as big and powerful as the Imperium, which grew to absolutely monstrous proportions during the Great Crusade. The imperial policy regarding any independent human polities they find is simple: they are conquered and subjugated. Independence is intolerable for the Imperium. All humans everywhere need to be brought the light of the Emperor's religion. All resources everywhere must be taken acquired for the Emperor's war machine. According to the rulers of the Imperium this is the best way these people and resources must serve all of humanity.

If human civilization besides the Imperium were to prosper without a level of cruelty and tyranny similar to that of the Imperium's, the Imperial dogma that such cruelty and tyranny is necessary for survival would be called into question. It is therefore important for the Imperium to stomp out all alternatives to itself.

>>51624498

The Imperium has actually gone through quite a few upheavals, GW even added a new one in 6th Edition, they simply just don't get focused on a lot.

Part of why the Imperium has continued to survive however is that it isn't monolithic in certain ways. As long as the various planetary governors meet the criteria required of them, they're free to rule however they damn well please.

>>51624760
>>51625044

Yeah, some of the bad shit the Imperium does is necessary, but a lot of other things are simply done so as to show an alternative future of humanity. A future where instead of magically becoming better it regresses and doubles down on its worst aspects.

>>51625505

They stay within their own system.

>>51624498
I don't know if you noticed, but the Empire is very much in the process of collapsing because it is impossible for it to persist. The level of misrule in it is simply too great for any polity to bear.

>>51624207
Depends on the year you set the story.

In the Macharian crusade circa 930.M41 there were a lot of worlds to be conquered for the Imperium in Segmentum Pacificus

In the Badab War there was a separatist movement

The Only War lore gives a separatist faction, the Severan Dominate, that resists against any attempts to return it to the Imperium

Diasporex and Interex were a thing millenia ago, not in the present of the game 999M41

>>51626129
Pretty sure anon got it, the imperium has to be the worst representation of humanity in any sci-fi type of setting.

>>51624207
I'd probably be tempted to say for your idea: That Felicity Colonial System would be better of giving up their "independence" and just join the Tau for the sake of getting further help. Since your OC faction sounds like a open minded and multi-cultural and democratic one.

There could pretty easily be a human empire the same size as the imperium covering the galaxy that the imperium has just incidentally never met. Space is big, yo.

>>51627652
>the imperium has to be the worst representation of humanity in any sci-fi type of setting.

not even remotely

>>51626271
>it regresses and doubles down on its worst aspects.
Such as? Ideologically pretty much everything in the Imperium makes sense.

>>51624207
Yeah, there are still plenty of human-held worlds that have yet to be rediscovered by the Imperium, and there are also factions like the Severan Dominate.

>>51624207
>US army with recolors
Meh, uninspired. They could change at least the stupid hats into something more practical and sci-fi

>>51624207
The Imperium's response comes in the form of an invasion and systematic genocide. Your fedora-tippers all die.

>>51624207
>Send in sisters sabines undercover.
>A few decades later, the population revolts and kill the system's leaders
>Imperium comes to reap the prize

alternatively
>Send in assassins
>New leaders in place
>Rinse and repeat until you get a favorable response.

alternatively 2
>Crusade, brother Emalios?
>Crusade, magos Perrevin!

>>51630268
I agree. Even the marines flag is uninspired.
I'm really sick of USMC in space, I wish we had more variety. It's not like human military history is limited to them.

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>>51630322
/thread

Yes, the galaxy is a big place and there can be any kind of human settlement, from cavemen to hyper-advanced civilisations, including technobarbarians. There are even some freeports in places where the Imperial presence isn't too strong.

>>51627652
AT-43 had the terrans as cyborn nazi zombies, so no.

>>51630499
>implying the Imperium would waste a planetful of perfectly good slaves.

>>51627652
The IoM aren't even the worst people in 40k. Chaos is way worse.

>>51625505
Same way as Tau. Short computer calculated jumps, courier ships and so on.

Technically you don't even need to kill psykers if someone was able to pick up Gellar studies and was able to miniaturize some of the derived tech. Like psyker suppressors. Make a collar or a crown that suppresses psyker powers and you will be okay for the most part.

Though to do it effectively you probably still will need pretty tyrannical/militarized society capable of reacting fast to misbehaving or possessed psykers.

On the other hand such tech allows to train psykers with less risks and damage to them. Doesn't mean it will be easy.

Something like a military junta with military police in long coats and emotion suppressing medications for psykers in addition to psi-suppressors. Just look at Equilibrium.

>>51632649
It is the 41st millennium and all psykers must wear tard helmets.

>>51624383

can you name that civilization or remember which book you read that from at least? I wanna read up on it.

>>51632730
Just 15 years of training in the most elite of our military schools for psykers and you will be able to remove the helmet and become the most trusted agent of the Big Brother.

You will become his eyes and ears. And sometimes his right hand that punishes those who try to break The Order.

>>51632649
Just blanket all the cities and spacecraft in psi-suppressors. You'd be at a disadvantage when fighting against factions with space wizards, but it's worked out okay for the Tau so far.

>>51632824
Yeah. Add small enough fusion reactors and you can even push demons a little with mobile variants. Bigger fuckers probably will be able to withstand but most others will go back to the warp outright.

>>51624207
Are you that faggot who keeps posting his stupid request in the drawthread?

>>51632760
Its Adrantis V. Not really much on it just a footnote.

>>51624498
>Welp another reason why the imperium of man is not exactly the best of humanity
Well it isn't like that world was helping uplift humanity. They were just one planet that sat around doing nothing. If the Imperium collapses they will eventually just be destroyed by Chaos, the Necrons, or Tyranids.

>>51624498
>>51624760

>To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.

The Imperium has always been the worst parts of humanity.

>>51624207
While a lot of anons have made their answers I just want to know more about this OC faction of yours which is the Felicity Colonial Systems. Are they the usual modernized and or futuristically advanced sci fi civilization?

Also asides from the usual purging, I'd guess there are times the imperium might be; "you wana be independent? Fine have it your way, but don't say we didn't warn you!"

>>51633997
Im pretty sure the worst parts are the ones wearing spikes and the often still living skin of their enemies like a party-mask.

>>51634532
Hello, thr3ad OP here, just checked the thread and saw this. Well its not an oc. Just something I got for a question needed asking. But fine maybe just for the sake of answer I g your question. Give me time and maybe I might add some world building that can give me more answers and responses to my original question.

>>51633125
I am sorry. Who are you talking about? The images I used is something I just found on deviantart if that triggered you.

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>>51630577
>Therians
>Nazis
No Anon, Therians are worse. Therians are post-singularity 4chan.

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>>51624498
It's a cruel system, but it's a system that works surprisingly well for something that was essentially slapped together at the end of the Horus Heresy from the smoking wreckage of the Crusade-era Imperium. In some ways, it can actually be fairly nice, since it's so feudal planetary governers have an equal chance of being kind and reasonable individuals as much as cruel despots.

And not to get a boner over 'muh grimdark,' but I hate the people who think that they can just be reasonable (by their standards) and everything would magically get better, or that their super special space human government is the best because superior ethics. OP's example isn't outright bad, but it reeks of that.

>>51624207
>So let me ask, are there any human worlds, settlements and colonies in Warhammer 40K that are not part of the Imperium of Man?

Yes, tons.

>As in independent worlds or colonial systems with their own governing bodies?

Yes, tons.

>I remember personally a friend saying; 'Yes, there are likely independent human worlds or systems that exist in 40K.' So how accurate is it?

It's not "likely", it's an established fact of the setting.

>So how'd it turn out then?

It depends on how good the defenses of this "Felicity Colonial Systems" are, and how far from Imperial controlled space they are. The Imperium will want to conquer them on general principles, but they could get passed over if they aren't worth the trouble.

>>51625505
>How do they navigate without Navigators

Navigators are only necessary when travelling long distances. There is such a thing as a "calculated warp jump" which just uses technology, not Navigators. Calculated jumps can't safely be longer than 4 light years, but that's more than enough to move around the average sub-sector. Travelling across a sector is also feasible, but it would take a very long time as each jump takes about a day.

In all likelihood most FTL ships in the Imperium wouldn't have Navigators. Only official government vessels and major trading organizations would even need them.

>>51635505
You would still need some sort of Psyker to spot the astronomicon and do the math.

>>51635525
Why? Tau don't use them, and they get around fine.

>>51635525
November, you wouldnt. The Imperium is the only one who travels with the asteonomican. Like he just said, the Grand majority of ships use computers for warp jumps. It's only longer range ships that need navigators to triangulation with the astronomican

Fundamentally you need to fix the psyker problem somehow or your civilization will be annihilated by Chaos. If you don't do that, it's 100% better for everyone involved if the Imperium rolls your shit in before daemons do.

If your civilization has managed to solve the psyker problem by, say, shooting them all, then you might have a better thing going than the Imperium but they're going to ruin your shit anyway.

>Humans start their own empire seperate of the imperium
>Lack the sheer scale of Imperial presence
>Dark Eldar farm the planets or Orks slaughter the people or Necrons just show up and claim everything while the humans hope they are considered property or pests on top of property

Non-Imperial systems survive entirely off of luck since there's no Marine chapters stationed or Imperial reinforcements around to help.

>>51635830
*instead of pests

>>51635525
No you wouldn't.

Warp drives have feedback systems that react to the region of the warp immediately around them. Even in real space a the warp drive can tap into the warp and describe the local conditions. However, those local conditions can change significantly with the passage of a few hours, or when traveling across more than a few light years. This is why it's called a calculated jump; the ship's computers consult the warp drive and then calculate the entry vector, speed, and jump duration you need to reach your target. What you need Navigators for is to reference your course from the Astronomicon, and adjust the ship's trajectory to compensate for changes in the warp. The navigator can also see threats coming (Warp storms, Daemons, etc.) and avoid them.

With the four lightyear limit on calculated jumps you can easily putter around a sub-sector with multiple jumps. Your jumps won't be as safe or quick as it would with a Navigator, but in a well mapped region with stable warp routes it would be good enough. You could even get by traveling between neighboring sub sectors, but long voyages across the entire local sector would take months if not years. A journey to an entirely distant sector would be really dangerous and take a very long time. Navigators aren't needed to make warp travel possible, other races travel the warp without them. Navigators make warp travel faster and safer, that's their appeal.

>>51635830

A single well developed star system has the resources to build a fleet of thousands of ships and arm millions if not billions of troops. That's more than enough to hold off an orc WAAAGH, much less a few Deldar raiders. The main use of the Imperium is that it will bring you re-enforcements when things get dire.

>>51634604
>But fine maybe just for the sake of answer I g your question. Give me time and maybe I might add some world building that can give me more answers and responses to my original question

Why yes anon, please do. Curious what details you'd add.

>>51636929
But if a star system can do that, why does the Imperium always need to defend so many?

>>51638712
Because it's fucking huge. Even if it is "only" a couple million worlds it is still more than enough to constantly have some shit going down in one or another part of the Imperium.

Add to that Mechanicum who don't like to share and prefer to establish their Forge Worlds in systems with most minerally rich planets and asteroid belts.

For each Imperial world to be able to defend themselves you'll need to disseminate technological knowledge while also providing additional re-education programs.Because imperial worlds stand on different levels of social and technological progress. Many feudal worlds are simply providers of bodies for the guard and some luxury products. Even their agriculture is not enough to support more than their own populations. In the long run Imperium probably will like to uplift them but it takes a lot of resources and time.

>>51636929
The resources? Yes probably.
The infrastructure? Highly unlikely

Remember that the entire Imperium is built around mutual reliance, nobody has access to all the things needed to be self sustainable, because that way its really damn hard to rebell.

You might have tanks, small arms and bodies but food must be almost entirely imported

you might have shipyards, but raw materiel is non existant etc etc.

Yes it is inefficient, its intended to be.
Yes it stretches the logistics past breaking point.

But damn if it doesnt prevent a whole lot of rebellions

>>51625505

Slower than light. Some empires in the technobarbarian age did so.

>>51626136

Every rock can hold humanity, if determined enough, inhabitable or not. Acidic atmosphere? Float in balloons. A planet of ice? Ice is actually god damn fucking useful. So on and so on.

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>>51630971
>chaos
>people

>>51638884
What I'm saying is, if a system can defend itself so well without Imperial aid, why is Imperial aid needed for Imperial systems?

>>51639826
dat Commissar's cute. Anyone know her number?

>>51633514
So you just destroy it and not infiltrate it ?

>>51634581
I'm sure the people would be so relieved that they were genocided by the Imperium for not joining them instead of by chaos.

It was an absolute obsession of the Emperor to gather every single scrap of humanity under the rule of his Imperium because he believed even the tiniest group outside his control would tear the galaxy a second warp anus with their own psychic awakening.
Even if ignorant to his reasons, his followers still follow this command with uncompromising religious fervor.

Ironically, it was his own works that almost opened a second warp anus in the galaxy, right on Terra no less and he has had to spend the last 10,000 years on the Golden Throne to keep it plugged up.

>>51639026
True, but that's how the Imperium is built. We're talking about independent systems.

>>51638712
see >>51639026
The Imperium keeps it's local systems weak and dependent to prevent revolts.

>>51624207
A Imperial world does have quite a bit of freedom to be honest. They absolutely can be a social democracy or a pretty peaceful world.
As long as they take "care" of psykers, pay their tithes and have no other gods than the emperor.

It does not matter at all how they govern themselves as long as they follow these simple rules. Even the worship of the Emperor can be done in a fuck ton of ways.

>>51635570
i thought tau dont exactly delve into the warp to travel, they "skim" on it or some shit, which is slower but safer.

>>51639026

Not quite. This is also caused due to overspecialization. You have hive worlds that serve no other purpose but to breed billions of humans. Forge worlds that exist only to produce weapons and are so polluted that nothing could grow on them.

You can certainly have well rounded planets but they'd never achieve the production quotas of specialist worlds.


Lets look at WW 2 levels of production for example - since that was the whole world at war.

The USA produced 300 000 warplanes of various types.

Now imagine a factory the size of Brazil that is solely dedicated to producing Leman Russ. They'd probably make 300 000 tanks for a month.

Can this highly specialised Forgeworld live on its own? Nope - but a network of specialist planets - a forgeworld, a hive world, an agri world to feed the and a mining world to supply them with raw materials will shit out infinitely more ships and regiments than 4 well rounded civilized worlds.

>>51639936
Because you can deal only with system level threats. Unless your civilisation is not military junta (or say tyrannic theocracy) with iron grip over its population there is little you can do to always keep your fleet at the ready.

Stopping smaller ork "Waaaghs!" is possible. But bigger ork groups, those that say already pillaged one planet, normally have pretty good leaders and insane number of military assets. Or if the Tyranid comes. Frankly Dark Eldar are the least of your problems.

To battle such threats you need either superior technology (minimum is probably Tau level of understanding + Imperium material sciences) or you need your whole economy working non-stop at supporting your space fleet.

Also without navigators and astropaths effective response range of your fleet is around 10-15 light years. Farther and you probably will arrive only to see how your enemies leave with goods pillaged from your colony.

>>51642884
It's not that they intentionally keep things that way, it's just that it ends up being that way with various planets. Hive worlds grow too overpopulated, so they need constantly imported food. Forge worlds produce the best weaponry, but they've run out of natural resources long ago and need to rely on materials brought in from other worlds, or recycled from hive worlds. An agri-world grows infertile from overfarming, it's turned into some sort of other world - perhaps a hive world.

If there were smaller independent systems, they would probably end up developing the same problems over time, because almost every system in the galaxy - especially ones that the Imperium doesn't already control - has to have been around for at least ten thousand years.

>>51639936
Because it's best and brightest soldiers aren't there for the most part. The good ones get sent to the Guard and thus off-world. The PDF that are left are second or third-stringers and are only good for taking pot shots ant feral orks or angry grox.