Lurker here, noticed that the thread died. RESOURCES >A

>>51591573
>"Legacy General" in the title
Thanks for the thread though.
Reporting in for playing artifacts to win the game.

Thanks senpai. I also use artifacts to win the game. Usually don't win without LED.

>>51591573
>His combo win isnt charbelcher
Lame

>>51594346
*flame slash intensifies*
So, what do we do when they ban brainstorm in March?

>>51595615
>Banning brainstorm
Get a load of this guy

>>51595615
Are you the guy that I discussed the worth of void snare with? I had a revelation today about cutting rain of filth for the second decay main, which you also thought was bad. It occurred to me that it wasn't that I didn't want rain, just wanted only 4 rituals. I think I'm going to try 3 rit 1 rain.

>>51595615
Keep playing D&T :^)

I'm selling my collection of legacy and modern cards. A few people have suggested that they could buy the whole lot, but for a discount. So far one has named his discount, a "mere" 60% off. What's a realistic percentage I should agree to? 10 feels like a lot, but I don't think I might be able to sell them all even in the long run, so should I consider up to 20%?

>>51599349
60 is kind of retarded but I'd consider as high as 30 or 40 depending on how fast you wanted to move them.

>>51594346
Are there doomsday piles without LED?

>>51600590
Yes but the starting mana requirements are often significantly higher. Imagine a basic basic storm pile like Ideas Unbound, LED, Probe, LED, Burning Wish. The pile would still work if you replaced those LEDs wit Dark Rituals, but you would need UUBBR available after casting Doomsday instead of just UU. That's pretty simplified but you get the idea. Part of why Null Rod is such a pain in the ass.

>>51600000

>>51600704
Who cares

New to legacy here, building burn.
Will I perform well in a mixed environment?
I've been playing for quite some time and have a solid grasp of the rules and card interactions.

>>51599349
I'll buy any playset of FBB dark rits, since the last thread made me want them :^)

Bump. When will WOTC finally succumb to the pleas of the man babies and ban Miracles? What will they ban from it?

File: dark rits.jpg (335KB, 1200x900px) Image search: [Google]

335KB, 1200x900px

>>51605559
Kind of like these?
Too bad the Dark Petition doesn't really look foil at all in the picture.

>>51608860
Never ever. If they do though id bet terminus or sensei's

>>51608989
>FtV lore cabal rits
One of our shops players is switching to Rb reanimator with all ftv where he can get them and hideous alters for the rest. he is letting a local chibi artist do his phyrexian script elesh norn

>>51610109
Sounds like my nigga.

>>51602163
Burn is a "fair" deck, in that it doesn't just vomit its hand and deck onto the table and win. It's not a BAD deck by any stretch, and Price of Progress/blood moon can catch a lot of decks with their pants down.

That said, it lacks the explosive power of most of the combo decks and has little way outside Eidolon/pyrostatic pillar to interact favorably with them, which may be too slow.

It'll always be a tier 2 deck, and you can beat top tier decks with consistent solid play and a little luck, but don't expect to be winning a SCG 5k with it.

>>51610272
Honestly I think this post understates Burn's ability to perform well in large events. There are plenty of instances of it making top16 or better in events with 200+ people in the past 2 years or so. You can reasonably expect to perform well if you know the deck well and metagame correctly.

>>51610109
I picked them up because they were cheap and I had store credit. Didn't know what else to get, since I have TES and DDFT finished but haven't tried ANT yet.

>>51610574
How far apart are the three decks anyways? And how different are they to play?

>>51611582
In terms of card choice they aren't that far apart, but they all play pretty differently. TES aims for speed but often uses non-deterministic kills (Ad Nauseam or Empty the Warrens). ANT takes a bit longer to go off but generally sets up for a deterministic kill if possible (Tendrils via PiF loop or tutor chain). DDFT only has deterministic kills, and can worm its way through hate the others can't. The price it pays for this flexibility is a slight decrease in speed compared to the other 2, and increased difficulty of play/decreased forgiving-ness due to the all-in nature of the titular card.

File: IMG_20161231_002338.jpg (5MB, 4048x3036px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 4048x3036px

>>51608860
>COLD
>DEAD
>HANDS

>>51613086
Say goodbye to terminus next banlist update friend :^)

>>51608860
>man babies
>reasonable people who think the format shouldn't have a tier 0 deck

>>51613086
>He doesn't play the superior version with Karakas + Venser.
Why even play?

>>51613788
If you think miracles is tier 0, then I'm sorry to tell you friend, but you're a manbaby.

>>51613788
The banned Eldrazi deck in Modern was tier 0 and hit 30+ % of the metagame. Miracles is ~15% right now. Looking back through the results of large events for the past couple years, only GP Columbus last year had egregious numbers of Miracles, with 8 copies in the top 16. The deck is solidly tier 1 and likely will be forever unless it is banned. But it needs another 10-15% of the meta for it to reach tier 0.

Bumperino. let's not let this one die. Any of you built a local legacy scene from the ground up? How did you do it?

Hey, memers. What do you think about the post package in eldrazi? It's certainly cheaper, but I assume not as effective.

>>51619582
I've heard about this, but never actually seen it. I'll tell you what I told my friend who just bought into manaless on modo with no format experience: "seems bad"

>>51610515
>>51610272
Is there any way I could find out what the "better" decks are? I dont have many people to play and practice with. Are there games/tournaments I can watch of the most recent stuff being played?

>>51620572
I realize a list is up in the OP by the way, I mean how they're played.

>>51620572
Well there is mtggoldfish, which has a list of decks that 5-0 recent mtgo leagues or did well at major tournaments. There is also mtgtop8, which collects results from a bunch of different tournaments. Thats usually where I go to see the current trends in deck popularity.

>>51619582
Seems too slow, the biggest guy in Eldrazi is Reality Smasher at 5 iirc. If you're putting in a post package it might be worth including Newlamog as a 1-2 of, since he would also help you beat blowout hate cards like Ensnaring Bridge.

>>51620572
ChannelFireball has a decent amount of legacy video content on their site. There are also plenty of videos of SCG coverage on youtube, but you don't always get a great idea of why the players make the plays they do.

File: Trini.jpg (45KB, 418x305px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 418x305px

There's something magical about flipping the good old 3-Ball to the OmniTell players SnT game one. That is all.
/blog

>>51620745
>>51619888
I had the same idea, but I think I'll give it a try. From the lists I see the curse is slightly higher with ulamog and sower, endbringer. I also think it'll be easier to active eye of ugin with posts.

However, turn one chalice is less likely...

so i picked up magic a while back, because all my friends play it and i used to play in middle school so i figured why not?

so i dug out my old deck and im fairly certain its bad. im planning on going down to card kingdom next weekend and picking up some cards to fix it.

any recommendations? here's the deck currently (ive been adding to it with my collection i dug up) :

plains x 9
swamp x 10
myr battlesphere x 4
myr propagator x 2
myr reservoir x 2
myr incubator x 4
myrsmith x 4
lodestone myr x 2
hovermyr x 2
myr superion x 1
myr galvanizer x 1 (gonna pick up 3 more of him)
alloy myr x 1
perilous myr x 1
myr welder x 1
iron myr x 1
leaden myr x 1
golden myr x 2
maw of the obzedat x 1
origin spellbomb x 2
duress x 1
AWOL x 1
parasitic implant x 1
inspired charge x 3
dreamstone hedron x 1
bronze calendar x 1
im rubber, youre glue x 1

Rate my pico-budget jank dank. Any suggestions?


4 Ash Zealot
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Burnout
4 Immolating Souleater
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Lava Blister
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Skullscorch
4 Temur Battle Rage
20 Mountain


>>51623153
>im rubber, youre glue x 1
I'm pretty sure that isn't legal in legacy.

>>51623451
i couldnt find a thread to ask about casual so i asked here. sorry.

>>51623526
No worries, the deck I asked for C&C on isn't exactly tier 1 either.

>>51623153
Splashing blue for a draw spell like Thirst for Knowledge or Thoughtcast might be good. Master's Call is two 1/1's an instant speed for 2W, which is decent.

>>51623451
REEEE choice cards
You won't always be playing vs blue decks, Faithless Looting would let you drop the dead REB when they aren't relevant. Barbarian Ring is a RDW classic that can let you get those last few points of damage in.

Why isn't nivmagus elemental playable in legacy? I know it's not AS heavy in counterspell war as vintage, but there is still ton of daze/FoW decks around.

>>51623153
Cards with silver borders (I'm rubber you're glue, AWOL) aren't legal in any format, and generally aren't even accepted in casual play. They're from a joke set. But myrs are pretty cute. until you figure out where their eyes are

>>51625843
Oh boy, you are in for a treat if you haven't seen this yet.
Mono Blue Martyr vs MUD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwLJjBGzEE

>>51626481
Greg Hatch is pretty awesome

>>51626481
>2014
Well fuck this, I'm so going to try building a deck with nivmagus.

>>51627439
There's a slightly updated list out there somewhere that kills with tireless tribe and twisted image instead of nivmagus

>>51599349
60% is too much. Beware the giga kike.

>>51617366
One guy at my shop has a variety of decks but mains Elves and another guy is working his way toward show and tell. I've built reanimator, ANT, and nearly complete with miracles. Still haven't reached the threshold required to birth a scene and our area is very poor so it's been difficult. I badger everyone about it. One of the Yugioh players recently woke up so I'll see if I can't get him interested. He's been building a mono blue edh deck so I take that as a good sign. It was amusing to hear him exclaim to his yugibros "in magic, there are cards that say take an extra turn!"

>>51627870
I'm my area we have enough people with decks to get 8-10 a week, but it's hard to wrangle people into actually coming. I got the ball rolling with brute force. I kept pestering the TO at my lgs to run lefact tournaments and I badgered people into bringing decks to play between modern rounds. Eventually we got a weekly thing going but we usually only get like 4-6 people to actually show and end up doing round Robin or winner-take-all 3 round swiss.

SOME MADMAN TOOK PSI TO A 5-0 IN AN MTGO LEAGUE. IS THIS DECK THE REAL DEAL?

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14573&d=287393&f=LE

>>51628496
Why the DRS? Seems kinda strange.

>>51628564
It's to put under chrome mox mostly. You can pact for a bg card for the mox. Older lists played odious trow. The shaman is obviously an upgrade. It's also cheap enough that you can cast and cull it.

So I was thinking, right now I was planning on a Omnitell list which is mostly just the pieces, Halls, and Force with 4 Griselbrands. Should I change up my list?

Also what decks play with Strand and Delta?

>>51628981
Lots of blue decks could use those. Storm and miracles jump to mind. You could build esper delver if you want something more offbeat.

>>51628496
Of course it is. Its been an established archetype for yeara, and I'll defend it to the end. When did the myth that SI was actually bad even start? People basically pretend it doesn't exist anymore and then get fucked when it shows up. Expect to see it a little more over the next few months. The time is ripe.

What do you think the pros and cons of pact build vs. Classic build are? A lot of people think pact is strictly better but I'm not so sure.

>>51630317
It's just overall worse Belcher, you don't have the functionality of the wishboard, you can't play around FoW without Empty the Warrens and this list doesn't even run Cabal Therapy/Negation to protect the turn 1 and most of the time just die to Summoner's Pact after fizzling with the draw 4s.

>>51630576
>>51630317
It's on the same level as belcher, and belcher is a gambler's deck. You're gambling that you won't run into blue decks.

Realistically the only cards belcher wishes for are empty and their draw7s. Sometimes goblin war strike. If you're wishing for something else you're losing.

The pact version of SI gets a little extra goldfish consistency at the price of being drastically more all-in. The traditional builds with 0-drops actually can recover pretty well from countermagic by simply resolving another draw4. And you can still sequence your spells in such a way that you can bait them into countering the wrong spell.

The real question you want to be asking is do you want to play a belcher-style deck in a meta so saturated with blue decks?

>>51630744
Depends on the blue, not vs Delver but Belcher has game vs Shardless/any other non-Delver BUG pile if they don't rip the nuts g2 and g3 since they basically have 4 cards in their deck + whatever they side in. If they fow your t1 play they're most likely pitching brainstorm or AV and you have more consistent topdecks than them if they don't kill you with a goyf in 4-5 turns. If your 7 contains ETW but no Seething Song to yell counter me you basically can't lose vs Delver either.

>>51630017
Yeah, not too sure on buying Duals (Hence Omnitell), but I'll keep it in mind.

>>51630788
>>51630744
Also Xantid Swarm is a card and wishing for Telemin Performance to oneshot no-creatures decks or win vs Reanimator/SNT is also a thing. You might be losing when you wish for Pyroclasm/Grapeshot but it's not like you can't draw into more mana+action after wrathing the board.

>>51630788
The bit about "can't lose to delver" sounds like a bit of hyperbole. If you need to land grant, you lose the knowledge advantage. If they counter rituals you wont always have enough mana to go off. Obviously they delver player wants to counter the business spell, but with bug variants with discard becoming more popular, countering mana could be correct if they follow it up with discard. Empty is a great card vs force, and there's an argument for SI to play it too. But it's not a sure kill vs several decks in the format, including the most popular. It's all about tradeoffs, senpai.

>>51630744
>The real question you want to be asking is do you want to play a belcher-style deck in a meta so saturated with blue decks?

Because I'm a hard M and lunatic. I like a challenge.

Is there any listed combos in legacy? I want to see niche synergies. Also post your favourite unplayed cards.

>>51632266

I wish I had saved it, but there was a website posted here once that listed all sorts of goofy-ass budget legacy combo decks, like Worldgorger Dragon/Animate Dead.

>>51632345
Link in the first post. Probably should add this to the resources in the OP.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31126-Budget-Legacy-Guide-V5

>>51632619
I like the list, but my issue is that most of them have no means to win decks to beat. But then again, if they had, they wouldn't be exactly budget.

>>51632619

Oh shit, yep, this is what I was thinking of: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1me_bqX45Fh_auKaETDcE6GgxWq569qspmBk1VoOtBHU/edit?pli=1#

...I really want to make some of these decks, but my store only has Legacy once a month.

>>51632668
Yeah some of them are ok, and some of them are Jank As Fuck. But for poorfags who want to play locally, there are some good options.

>>51632743
I wonder how many viable tactics are there. I feel like you either have: Counterspell backup, Discard or Tax/Prison to be able to keep up combo in check. And for combo you are balls in the wall and hope your opponent doesn't mess your hand.

Is there other viable strategies out there? I know some decks are hybrids of those, like SnT is two card combo with counterspell backup. I like how eidolon is storm counter, but I wonder how well it works as storm trigger doesn't stack in damage.

Fairly new to non kitchentable mtg, and i was wondering something. Is there any format or deck that uses creatures with shadow? It seems so specific that it would be decent against decks. But then again I dont know shit about top tier decks.

>>51632969
Not really. Shadow creatures ain't too powerful in itself, even though they can attack through defending player. But compare 2cmc shadow creature hitting 1 against opponent who will hit you with 2cmc tarmogoyf back with 5 damage and guess who wins the race. Even rancor won't keep you in the game and that's upping the cost to 3cmc.

I think looter il-kor has been used at some point for the filtering effect, but it's a bit slow as well.

>>51632969

I do remember there was a budget build of a Suicide Black deck that had some shadow creatures in it floating around.

Ah, found it: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/budget-legacy/607937-budget-shadow-competitive-30

You can give it a spin.

Post your deck's theme song and others guess which it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwhOTNQcQq4

File: pox.jpg (1MB, 2816x2112px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2816x2112px

>>51617366
It has its ups and downs locally. Generally it dies, then a few months later, people will rez it, then it will die in a couple weeks. Generally its always the same 4-6 people. Modern made it even more dead locally for me. The store I play at actually has the option to opt into modern if legacy doesn't happen. I remember last time the judge actually offered to loan me his modern deck just cause i didnt have one. I politely declined and left.I stopped going cause it missed fireing for the last couple of weeks. So its back to the xmage for me for a while. I hate how modern seems to be sucking even more people out of legacy. I just dont see the appeal at all. I mean, like as jumping off point bnefore you get into legacy maybe...idk. From what small amount of it I played it just feels like legacy with shit cards. On top of it and just...wizards in general starting to take pages from the TCG yugioh format. It really pisses me off. On a side note, I got most of a pox core, just missing the wastes,thoguhseizes and lillies because $$$. Im torn between finishing it, but I dont want to if Ill never end up playing it. On another side note though, Do you guys thingk legacy will get any cheaper with everyone not seemingly playing it hardly at all anymore?

>>51636646
Modern is more popular because:
>Cheaper so more players, why pay 1500$ when you can pay $400?
>more support from Wizards
>Legacy has a bad rep for elitism and games ending as early as turn one
>Blue's supposed "dominance",
>Nobody wants to buy Reserved List cards
>Its easier to find people to play modern then legacy

I already paid 160$ for building a deck and I'm nowhere near done. I'm honestly thinking of making some Modern deck.

>>51637145
160 clams is chump change even in modern, my dude.

>>51637145
ehhhh, im not so sure on modern being cheaper anymore. I mean with the way the ban lists has been handled, why bother trying to build something top tier if its just gonna get banned later? I mean, blue is technically dominate, just because most decks run blue. I honestly don't get the turn one game legacy thing. I mean some decks CAN do it, but you dont see it that much. Idk people need to realize theres more to legacy than miricals and brainstorm. Just because top teir decks run duals and shit dosnt mean you have to play those decks. I honestly have way more fun playing the old/obscure decks compared to common stuff you see now.

>>51637248
Compared to how highly costed the Goal it's it's a far better deal.
>>51637361
Modern is still cheaper. Dredge wasn't a full ban and Probe didn't cripple anything other then the already dead modern Storm. Even with Wizard's use of Bans, people don't want to shell out that much money for magic. It's one of the reasons Frontier is even a thing.

Honestly, it's probably because there's so many ways to go from 0-60 quickly (Reanimator can T1 Whatever unless you have force, Show and tell by T2, Storm is storm.)

Legacy is a mostly competitive format, which is why when people want to enter they look at the top tier stuff with Duals. Nobody looks at old/obscure decks because they don't think they can put up a fight against top tier decks. Sure they might not be Spikes, but they don't want to be destroyed by the possible high tier decks they face with their Budget Deck/Non-Reserved

>>51634576
Grixis control?

>>51636646
>wizards in general starting to take pages from the TCG yugioh format.
How so?

>>51637361
>ehhhh, im not so sure on modern being cheaper anymore.
Scalding Tarns: $80
Steam Vents: $10
Volcanic Island: $300

File: tmp_1186-20170208_203902-1874724156.jpg (4MB, 3264x1836px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 3264x1836px

>>51610109
>ftv where he can get them and hideous alters for the rest
Spurn the man that deigneth to sully perfect fits with unclean printings and keep not the company of such unscrupulous heathens lest they corrupt thine own conscience. Be he single-sleeved, thou shalt bury him and remove his graveyard from the game.

>>51634576
My moneys on SI or RB Reanimator, you seem like the sorta guy who likes paying life.

File: sad_frog.jpg (7KB, 316x202px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 316x202px

>>51634576
tfw you cant think of one for your main deck
My backup deck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipqqEFoJPL4

File: burn.jpg (33KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 600x400px

>>51638064
High Tide? Merfolk? I bet its Merfolk.

>>51613849

Hey, man; what can I say? The Venezuelan Legends had their day. It passed.

>>51617366

Can't claim credit for building the scene from the ground up, but I'm definitely a big promoter of the format to people who might be interested. The local allows a (non-75) number of proxies, so I bring three decks that have a few crossover cards and lend them out if people are interested in jumping into the format. It's yielded little, but one hopes that people will get over their Tarmogoyfs and start playing good cards.

>>51628478

That's pretty much the way it is here. Twin States...

>>51619582

Can't speak to Posts (specifically) in Eldrazi, but I've seen a lot of lists run mana-artifacts like Grim Monolith—ostensibly to give an out to Blood Moon, but also to jump up to Eldrazi Titans and such.

Here's a thread I've seen that might give you some info: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30579-BigEldrazi

Can't guarantee anything (I've only started comsidering building a "Fair Deck" within the past week), but seems like a good place to look for info.

>>51637145

The problem with Legacy is that people assume it's hideously expensive even when Modern and Standard bottleneck into "pay $1500 or lose." Any Modern deck running Tarmogoyf is already reaching Legacy levels of investment, and the cards are worse and subject to format-wide fluctuations that ruin decks.

I still can't wrap my head around why people would play bad decks in an underpowered format for a greater cost than it would take for them to buy into Legacy and have better decks in the format.

The main reason I haven't gotten back into Modern (or Standard, for that matter) is that the cards are artificially expensive and notably lackluster compared to Legacy staples. I don't have any desire to pick up a bunch of Ovalchase Dragsters when I could just win with Cabal Therapies.

>>51638268
It's a lot cheaper to get a tier 1 modern deck then a tier 2 Legacy deck usually. What do you mean by good legacy decks being cheaper then a bad Modern deck, unless you mean power level.

Also Modern is more supported then Legacy, so there's more people to play with.

Even if you have no desire to get Dragsters, why would one want to spend money on LEDs/Duals/RL cards for when one could win Modern games for less? Sure there's Burn, but not everyone wants to play burn.

Honestly I've almost fully given up on Legacy, no people to play with nearby, Modern is cheaper and more popular. Sure it's not a good format, but it's the cheapest barring pauper which honestly doesn't seem fun.

>>51638600

One example: Modern Jund is significantly more expensive than a number of (comparatively and objectively better) Legacy decks.

>>51638979
I'll give you that, but Jund is known everywhere as just goodstuff and isn't the same stuff being used in legacy?

Modern is still generally easier to get into and cheaper usually. Sure it might not be a good format but nobody wants to pay that much money.

>>51639132
You're breaking my heart anon. Why do you hurt me?

>>51639258
Because I want to believe in Legacy, but it's pushing me away. I'm disillusioned. Doesn't help that a turn one Badland to dark ritual makes me want to end myself with Omnitell, a defunct wanna be sneak n show that I only choose because it doesn't use duals.

>>51638268
>Modern and Standard bottleneck into "pay $1500 or lose."
No. Top 8 at PT AER nobody was over $500. Is that too expensive? Hell yes. But it isn't reserved duals expensive.

Modern can get that expensive because of stupid 4/5c goodstuff.

Of course price ≠ fun, I play decks in standard and modern that are worth sub $20 each and still have fun.

File: 1485493576194.jpg (98KB, 640x637px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 640x637px

Theme music for your legacy deck, huh? How about this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0vwOvVuQe4

So I took shardless to my lgs weekly legacy night, and I got shit on. I usually bring storm or reanimator, and I do well enough to prize. Shardless is the first fair deck I've played in legacy, and on the surface it seems pretty easy. But even if I win I feel like I really need to work for it. Some games/matchups feel like I should be in control, but I end up just losing. sometimes it seems like I'm drawing the wrong half of my deck depending on the matchup. Like I'm drawing reactive cards when I need to beat down, drawing creatures when I really need to deal with an opposing true-name, etc. How do I get good at playing fair decks like this? I thought about switching to bug delver instead since that puts on a faster clock, but I'm still not sure.

>>51637735
Nope.
>>51637856
RB animator is correct, key words being counter culture from the underground, good job.

>>51640486
>Some games/matchups feel like I should be in control, but I end up just losing.

Isn't the deck first and foremost control? Control is being known for you to earn you victory instead of pooping your hand on table and saying "oops, I won?".

>>51639521
I took 5 deck prices for decks to beat in both format from mtggoldfish:

Legacy:
Miracles 2650$
Storm 2300$
Grixis delver 2550$
DnT 1300$
Shardless BUG 3500$

Modern:
Affinity 740$
Ban Eldrazi 830$
Jund 1900$
Tron 580$
Burn 710$

It's pretty clear how much more expensive legacy is and only reason for that is because lands are fkin expensive. Otherwise the price difference is nothing in between these two formats.

>>51640486
Probably you should just play it some more. One night isn't enough.

>>51640486
Shardless BUG always seemed to me like a deck that just can't close out games quickly. Goyf is your only real clock and I honestly think Aluren is a better Shardless Agent deck.

>>51642945
To me Shardless aluren decks just look more inconsistent. Is there really any real benefit to it?

>>51643703
It grinds a lot better than Shardless BUG but it does have a slightly worse combo matchup.

>>51643748
How does it grind better without AV, Hymn or LOTV and filled with do-nothings without the namesake card in play?

>>51643871
Aluren isn't that important, they still can grind out most fair decks fairly easily.
Strix does wonders against pretty much all the fair matchups and every other creature has an ETB or recursion effect. Shardless BUG durdles around a lot and has trouble closing games, Aluren focuses on grinding the opponent out in a more efficient manner.

>>51644387
I don't buy this. You are giving up so much slots to combo that isn't any faster than getting tarmo in game and hitting in the face. I can see aluren could go through things like ensnaring bridge, but we already have abrupt decay for such things.

What the hell is the solid reason to play aluren, I don't see it.

>>51644486
It's the combo f a m. The deck has a perfectly fine midrange game plan, but it can also just combo kill on turn 3. Is that that obvious?

>>51644486
That's the thing, Shardless just has goyfs to end the game quickly, but it eats removal almost as often as DRS. At that point Shardless starts to durdle around, even though they did cast AV or Hymn.
Aluren doesn't care if their creatures are removed as they already generated value and the combo is just a bonus. They can win without but the threat of comboing off is also not to be underestimated. It does just as much as Shardless but keeps going if threats are removed.

>>51644559
What?

>>51644582
I have to look into this. I still only see it hurting your main plan devaluing your starting hands.

>>51637494
>Modern is still cheaper.

Legacy burn is still cheaper to make than Modern burn.

>>51591573
I like playing enchantress, how do i beat combo?

>>51645240

It depends on what the combo is. Getting out a turn-two Solitary confinement definitely does the trick against most Combo. Side-boarding in Leyline of Sanctity helps protect against first-turn combos. Karakas helps fuck over Reanimator combos. Other than that, it really depends on what combo you're trying to beat, and slotting in the correct silver bullet enchantment that will kill it.

>>51619582
eehhhh. The think about posts and any deck that uses them as a main part of its mana base, is that wasteland makes you cry like a bitch. The nice thing about the sol lands eldrazi runs is that the make .......enough....mana AND come into play untapped. I mean, it could work, but you would be way slower and open to more hate. If you want posts and eldrazi, just pick up a couple prime times and run 12 post. The mono green version is pretty cheap if $$ is an issue.

>>51620798
Most of CFBs video content is Andrea Mengucci playing decks he doesn't understand though. The occasional Caleb or Duke video is great when they put them out

>>51645120
>"What the hell is the solid reason to play Aluren?"

>>51645186
>Legacy burn is still cheaper to make than Modern burn.
So? Modern as a whole is still cheaper.

>>51645751

Not by much, unless you're playing with blue duals.

>>51620798
>>51645458
Watching LSV also never gets old. Actually on that topic I was watching him play U/R Painter and was wondering about this supposed misplay. Is there a reason he couldn't put Force on top and tap SDT to draw it and have double force to answer his opponent? Since he had Painters Servant on the field the City of Traitors in his hand was blue so he could pitch it to Force. I guess he was playing around his opponent having double Force?
https://youtu.be/Zp4Qm3CdG_A?t=458

>>51647228
Hmm, thought I linked with timestamp, the Top activation is at 7:38

>>51620745
It has some utility in that you'll find yourself activating Eye a whole lot more, the deck becomes more toolboxey at the expense of its explosive start.

>>51627781
This, the second people hear you're selling out, even with no time limit and just to make a bit of room or whatever, someone inevitably shifts into maximum overkike and tries to bilk you hard. It's as if people don't realise the ill feeling that engenders.

>>51645186
But that's just burn. Not everyone want to play Burn.

The thing is that people will rather want to win in a mediocre format then try and play a mediocre deck.

How bad would it be to try and convert Michael Ruppens Fish list from Vintage to Legacy? I'm tempted to start building my second deck, but don't really know what to focus on.

>>51649711
You'd probably need Mox Diamonds and maybe Chrome Mox, this looks like the kinda deck that wants to play a bear(fish?) on turn one most of the time. Duskwatch Recruiter seems like it would be great for this.

>>51608989
Yes, preferably Schwarze Ritus

So I think I need to mix it up even more than I'd been mixing it up the past few weeks. Was picking deck by die-roll, and rolled Charbelcher two weeks in a row.

I'm thinking of building Nic Fit just to throw everybody for a loop. Anybody have experience with it and with its variants? Was considering some kind of BUG variant, though I don't know how good that is and whether it requires me to run walkers.

>>51650796
One of my teammates play bug pod nic fit and it seems decent. That blue persist faerie that counter shit is good I'll tell you what

>>51638231
Ya turns out there are way more songs about setting shit on fire than there are giants and eldritch gods lol.

Been doing some testing with xmage with expiditions in mono green 12post. I like how explosive it can make you, and its like a halfassed measure against wasteland too. Cause they can still waste you, but you can 'outrun' them cause you played 2 lands and they wasted their one land drop on popping yours. That being said though it is the most fucking infuriating feeling to open with an expedition and no green sources. I played against another 12post variant that ran white for reliquary knights and had a decent synergy with the landfall snek and fetches. But it seemed slower than my build. I also played against a mono red sneak and show deck. That seemed cool as fuck. Just throwing a bunch of big red dudes at the guy across the table. I kind of want to build it.

Is there ever a reason to run more than 60 cards? (even like, 61), where the math works in your favor? I think I read that in a post about The Cure

Have you ever come across secret spicy tech / subtle rule abuse that somehow make it work?

The only thing that comes to mind is shuffling your board in limited against troll mill decks, besides that goofy blue 200-card-library-wincon spell

Hey SI guy do you run vanilla SI? I've been playing around with PSI a lot recently and it's super fun.
My list for reference
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/pact-spanish-inquistion/

>>51595615
Keep playing lands :^)

>>51655274
Well running the 61st card isn't horrible and some people do it, but if you feel like you need that card it usually mears there is a card you don't need somewhere. If you have a high density of tutors you can run more cards. I've seen elf lists that run like 70+ cards because they play 4x gsz, 4x chord, 4x fauna shaman or something like that. I imagine you could potentially do something similar with tezz lists now since you could play 4x transmute artifact, 4x whir of invention. Cant sya if it would be good. I don't think I'd ever play more than 61 cards, and rarely more than 60.

>>51659856
>not playing battle of wits
*punches big red mb1*

Went 3-1 last night at legacy.

Round 1 against shardless bug, game 1 I suicide to ad naus, game 2 he has a 3-counterspell hand to make sure I can't get started.

Round 2 against elves, might have been moderately threatening had she been playing cards better than jagged-scar archers and blightsoil Druid.

Round 3 against BUG Delver, game 1 he gets stuck on 1 land with double goyf in hand, I ad naus for 17 life and kill from there. Game 2 he thoughtsiezes me turn 1 and takes tendrils, turn 3 he plays DRS. I check top, see an infernal tutor, and decide to shove. I have exactly enough mana to pay for the daze and give him the drills for 9. Had that tseize been duress I would have lost.

Round 4 against burn. Game 1 he gets double eidolon lockdown and wrecks me. Game 2 he gets stuck on 1 land and gives me all the time in the world to set up. Game 3 on the draw I see this hand:
>brainstorm
>flooded strand
>sensei's divining top
>lotus petal
>lion's eye diamond
>dark ritual
>cabal ritual

I draw infernal tutor. The route to make this kill deterministic is left as an exercise for the reader.

All in all not a bad night.

>>51660099
I've always wanted to play battle but I'd never build a real version. Maybe on xmage.

>>51660191
Fetch, D Rit, C Rit, LED, Petal, IT cracking led for RRR, tutor for PiF, C Rit, D Rit, IT, the drills.

>>51660191
>the line to make this kill deterministic
Crack flooded strand for an island, brainstorm putting infernal back on top. Petal, ritual, led, top, cast cabal rit and cracked led in response for rrr. With the 2 random cards in hand from brainstorm you get threshold from discarding your hand. Tap top to draw tutor, find pif. Pif, rituals, tutor, 12 drills. Something like that. Maybe a tutor chain would work too. I almost missed it because I forgot about the extra random cards brainstorm gives you and could figure out how you got threshold.

Okay, here's a Anti-Game
You're on the draw, and have a pretty nice hand.
How can me, the Eldrazi player ruin your day?

>>51661155
By sticking a Chalice like always. Although I've beaten that with cleanup Griselbrand land land exhume.

>>51661155
By not conceding and going home to rethink your life.;^)

>>51661155
Chalice on 0, ancient tomb, thorn of amethyst, exile two SSG plus the one floating mana from tomb, chalice on 1.

>>51636646
>wizards in general starting to take pages from the TCG yugioh format
If only, then we would have a flood of reprints.

>>51661155
Ripping a turn 1 or 2 TKS hurts me pretty bad, my hands can be kinda shaky to keep with no brainstorm so hand disruption can turn a decent hand into a bye.

>>51661809
Thorn costs 2, not 1

>ooh GP Las Vegas is Limited again
>wait it's actually 3 back-to-back GPs
Haha looks like I'm building Legacy burn and some awful Standard deck boys.

PS if you can eke out 4 wins a day, that'll singlehandedly give you enough planeswalker points to catapult you to Nationals even if you've done dick all for tournaments all the rest of the year. But Nationals aren't Legacy.

>>51660191
>Had that tseize been duress I would have lost.

This is why I keep arguing Duress is a better choice 70% of the time. Generally in Legacy you're not going to be wanting to grab a creature with your discard spell. Not when you're running black, which has multiple ways of dealing with creatures after they hit the board.

>>51665150
It's funny you say this, I've been testing a single thoughtseize in place of 1 duress in my list and likING it a lot. Haven't lost a game to it yet, but I'm sure I will eventually.

>>51660239
That's exactly the line I took. Had I suspected they were playing blue I would have played top and passed turn instead, but knowing he's on burn, I had a green light to go.

>>51660334
Turns out I don't need threshold when casting Cabal rit the first time because of LED, but I do need it when flashing it back.

>>51665150
Amusingly enough, abrupt decay was also in that top 3 - so had I not seen a line to kill I would have swapped with that and used a petal I had in hand to blow up DRS and buy some more time.

File: My Snapshot3.jpg (39KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 640x480px

wtf even is this deck? ajani, dust bowls, notion theifs, birds. like fucklandsnstuff.dek?

>>51669994
I guess I miscounted the mana. My head is too full of doomsday convolutions and I can't help but think about putting things back with brainstorm. Gotta overcomplicate things.

>>51662677
I meant more in terms of how the only good cards are rares and mythics anymore. And their modern lists of 'lets hit the top decks because they are the top decks''. The only reason shit like pot of greed and good old power cards get reprinted in ygo is cause they are forever banned. Jewnami have the terrible practice of only printing good cards in rare/supers IE rare/mythic and banning old stuff that could compete with the new stuff just to force people into buy the new stuff. The main format in ygo is kinda like......if legacy has a banned list that changed every few months and the newest cards were almost always top teir. So your old cards are either total garbage teir shit by comparison or banned.

>>51639289

The only reason I play legacy is because I want to play a draw go style deck, and use cards such as ponder and sensei's top

Try that in Modern, and you will get rekt in just about any match. Jeskai control is the closest, but still seems weak to half the matchups

>>51640788
how much of a price diffrance is would their be if those legacy decks just used shocks?

File: 1454544803516.jpg (23KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 480x480px

>>51660207
gif piles part 2

>>51664326
>awful standard deck
Have I got the one for you.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/standard-reservoir-combo-bonesaw-go-home/

>>51673121
Sorry it's been a while. I'm a busy man. I think I can get it done early next week.

>>51671720
It is worth noting that Japan prints the OCG set with rarities as it decides it wants, then about 4-5 months later, when they already have tournament results, the TCG set gets printed and sent out, with rarities adjusted to ensure that the most sought-after cards have the highest rarity.

At least twice, a card was a common in the Japanese set, and bumped all the way to secret rare in the TCG printing for max jewbux

>>51674321
thanks senpai

win a dual today, switched to reanimator since my friend told me there'd be a lot of lands. wish me luck bros.

>>51674602
Yeah Konami of America is the jew of the operation, in OCG everything is a lot better. But the reprint politics doesn't work like you said they normally reprint stuff that's not in the list too. At least once a year in the MegaTins.

Played vs a deck today with Hidden Herbalist and Burning Tree Emissary, think there's anything to a deck with them + Glimpse maybe?

>>51679006
Ok, played another round vs it.
>See BTE and Herbalist G1
>Expect some sort of Gruul aggro deck
>Sideboard accordingly
>G2 plays Fecundity, Abzan Ascendancy and Ashod's Altar and goes full Eggs on me, using Manamorphose to filter into white until he found Phyrexian Altar and Second Sunrise'd me.
I guess sometimes you just get blindsided by some offbeat deck.

update on the win a dual:

went 3-1, then dropped because I had other shit to do. the event started an hour late. 20 people, so 5 rounds cut to top 8.

r1 vs Romario Neto on bug aluren:
I win the die roll and keep island, trop, brainstorm, careful study, exhume, g-daddy, daze
I go island, careful study discard griselbrand and brainstorm. didn't draw a black source.
he plays a deathrite, which I daze, but he forces back. I draw bayou for my turn which feels real bad. he plays another deathrite.
g2 he mulls to 4 and I make a couple big idiots.
g3 I have to settle for a kind of late tidespout tyrant and i can't cast enough spells to keep him off lands. I didn't really want to bounce his shardless agents. eventually he finds two drs to kill me without attacking and there's nothing I can do.

r2 vs some other dude on bug aluren
I win the die roll and make a turn 1 Iona on blue. he plays a drs and then I reanimate elesh norn and he scoops.
g2 I make a turn 2 girselbrand and draw maybe 21 cards off it, finding abrupt decays for the three baleful strip he cast throughout the game.

r3 vs waterfalls
I win the die roll and make a turn 1 elesh norn on blue. scoop.
g2 I make a turn two elesh norn on blue he doesn't find enough bolts to kill me.

r4 vs my buddy on lands
I win the roll and ponder into grave Titan, exhume, lotus petal. turn two I thoughtseize myself and cast exhume off a couple of petals. he can't get to glacial chasm in time.
g2 I have needle for maze of ith and turn 2 animate dead a tidespout tyrant, which keeps him off mox diamonds for long enough to win. I conceded to him because I had to leave.

deck felt really insane. aside from round 1, none of my matches were remotely challenging. 10/10 would play again.

>>51679536
I realize I'm an idiot because I said elesh norn instead of Iona at least twice. luckily thebdeck doesn't need me to be smart.

>>51671806
I said originally wrong. Meant reserved list cards, but it isn't perfectly true either, because of FoWs and such. Interesting question tho, let's see.

Miracles 2650 - 550 = 2100 (this list has Jace, Fow, Flusterstorm etc....)
Storm 2300 - 1400 = 900 (LEDs are still expensive holy fuck.)
Grixis delver 2600 - 1800 = 800 (FoWs only expensive card, you could still cut more from that by changing fetches and taking out flusterstom)
DnT, again the lands are the expensive part, no duals tho.
Shardless BUG 3500 - 1800 = 1700 It just changes expensive things from modern to expensive things on legacy.

Reference modern
Affinity 740$
Ban Eldrazi 830$
Jund 1900$
Tron 580$
Burn 710$

So yeah... I think duals are the only reason why legacy is expensive compared to modern.... Along with things like FoW and Karakas, but modern has it's own stupid cards upping the price.

If I forget the name of a card i want to name with Cabal Therapy in a serious legacy tournament event, what happens in the following scenarios from a judge's perspective:
1) ask my opponent the name of the card and they tell me the wrong name, which I then name (incorrectly)
2) refer to the card with a colloquial (I.e "jitte", "LED")
3) look it up on my phone before playing Cabal therapy

>>51681634
If you forget the name but believe you can correctly and uniquely identify it based on what it does and costs, etc, call a judge. They can look up the name for you. Don't use your phone since you're not supposed to use electronics during matches. Your opponent has no obligation to tell you the correct name, although if they lie to you blatantly they could be punished.

>>51681634
Oh I forgot the colloquialisms bit. If it's commonly and uniquely known by that name a judge should side with you if your opponent is an asshole about it.

>>51681634
Everything to be said has been covered, but I thought I'd mention this. First thing I thought of when you mention Pithing Needle problems

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/the-mtg-ethicist-pithing-needle-and-concession-expectation/

tl:dr guy lost because he named Borborygmos
not Borborygmos Enraged

>>51681634
1 is beyond the scope of my knowledge. Go hit up GA's ask a judge threads, there should be another by monday if there's not one now.
2 is absolutely acceptable if you use a well know colloquial. You only need to uniquely ID the thing you're naming. If your local group calls LED "drop rock", then naming "drop rock" is OK. But try that at a non-local event and you're going to be in trouble.
3 is not OK, you're not allowed to use your phone during the game.

>>51591573
I have decided to start with legacy and the first deck that I saw and fell in love with is lands, I have most of the deck and I have to ask is it good for someone who has watched/played legacy a lot online? Also is imperial servant even good now, it seems like a really fun deck to me but I am not sure. Also the only problem with my lands deck is that I have chinaman pendrell vale proxy there is no way in hell I am shelling out 1000$ for a card lol

>>51682225
>I have to ask is it good for someone who has watched/played legacy a lot online?
I don't see how that makes it good or bad for you. If you like it, go full frontal with it. Whatever makes your dick fly the hardest. Not sure how many blood moon decks there is in the format at the moment, but that's about the only reason why it would be bad in the meta, no?

>>51682225

>Also the only problem with my lands deck is that I have chinaman pendrell vale proxy there is no way in hell I am shelling out 1000$ for a card lol

By no means is that the only problem with Lands.

>>51681634
The official rules regarding things requiring you to name a specific card is that it has to be "uniquely identifyable". That's it.

>>51682496
lands isn't great vs combo decks either.

>>51682559
for me it is as I just simply can't justify giving 1000$ for a card I got most of my cards from my neighbour who played druing times of vintage and just quit.

>>51671720
the best card in the most recent set for modern was recently printed at uncommon

>>51652598
what's the list look like? sounds interesting.

>>51689728
I don't know the whole list because it's got a lot of 1-ofs and they change sometimes , but the jist of it is something like
4x therapy
4x veteran
3x pod
4x brainstorm
4x green sun
4x death rite
~23x lands
A couple abrupt decay
Spice to taste, but I know he plays glen elendra archmage, I think he plays Damia, and i'd be shocked if he didn't play levold. Also plays a couple of the usual nicfit utility dudes like eternal witness and Rec sage. Plays force of will out of the board I think.

>>51690003
We'll, I'm sold. Gonna research a bit more and sleeve it up this week.

>>51679536
Congrats man, what did your side look like?
I'm going to a larger local tourney next week, and I'm still doubting over my 15... Meta's usually very diverse where I go, so I tend to second guess my choices fifty times.

So storm seems to be growing in popularity since eldrazi is withering away. What is your favorite storm variant?

I have played ANT and TES, personally I like ANT more, and I was hoping for some thoughts on the flex spots. do you guys like dark petition? 1 or 2? Or maybe the second past in flames is better? Is top worth running in the main? ETW has been popping up more frequently in the main of some lists online, is that a good call? Any storm discussion welcome.

>>51693841
I don't see storm as worth it until people start jamming 4 Leyline of the Void + 4 Faerie Macabre to their boards, I played TES for a few months but don't see the reason to continue over the current RB animator build, the latter just has almost a 100% g1 winrate (unless you mulligan to oblivion which happens very, very rarely given how the deck is almost a perfect split between mana/fatty/animate/discard+annex) followed by higher odds of just drawing the nuts in g2/3 and winning through Thoughtseize/DRS/FoW/racing under Rest in Peace. Sure you can grind through more stuff with any Storm variant but why grind when you can make your opponent's deck 56 do-nothings and 4 relevant cards against which you have 8+ discard spells?

>>51694281
But with reanimator you are turning on all of your opponents' removal. Spells like swords, terminus, karakas, etc. are all live against reanimator while they are dead against storm. I also don't think that BR reanimator is the better deck, there is a reason that storm is more represented in tournaments and online. Also, I personally feel that TES is a significant downgrade to ANT. You have different colored rituals and are running bad cards like chrome mox just to make your ad nauseams good, while PiF loops are just as strong and more consistent.

>>51694932
Terminus can sweep goblin tokens if you don't have the time and cards to setup.

Decks that run plow are a minority in the format and the card is deader than dead vs Griselbrand which is the most often the fatty of choice to hit the board, good luck with blindlfipping Terminus vs Chancellor, Karakas is an argument but again, Griselbrand draws you 14 and something else punches the damage through if they're tapping their lands to not die instead of advancing their board. Animator also makes every other combo deck its bitch.
>reason
Yeah probably Animate Dead being bugged and the deck being unplayable on modo is one and sunk cost fallacy/not being able to afford every tier deck on paper being second.

TES isn't a downgrade, it's a faster weighed coinflip heavily in your favor vs anything not running blue instead of trying to go deterministic 1-2 turns later and scooping to Surgical Extraction.

>>51695021
>>51694932
Another thing to keep in mind is with the BR variant against deck that run removal you can always get sire if they don't have mana up.

>>51693841
I still jam dark petition because it just does so much work when I draw it. I've been playing EtW and Top as my other two flex slots main, I think both are good options to have though I haven't really though about many other alternatives.

I'd say ANT is probably slower but more consistent than TES, and faster but more vulnerable to hate than doomsday. It is however probably the easiest to pick up and play of the three.

>>51693841

AnT is generally the most stable of the three, and it's probably easiest to pilot.

Personally, I think Dark Petition's great. I don't run it at the moment because I've been wanting to get more out of Ad Nauseam and I really want to keep double Past in Flames, but next to Past in Flames and Infernal Tutor, it's probably your best enabling card. I ran one in the main next to Ad Naus and double-Past in Flames for a long time, but I started to find that I was bricking on Ad Nauseam pretty often with it.

I feel like there are two major schools of thought regarding AnT: either run Ad Nauseam, Past in Flames, and double-Petition; or run Ad Nauseam and double-Past in Flames.

The first variant is better for quick Tendrils kills, but it's weaker to countermagic and can fold to its own Ad Nauseas relatively often. The second variant is great against counterspells and gets a lot more out of cantrips, but it goes more slowly unless it finds a quick Ad Nauseam.

One other thing: I have yet to see evidence that TES is better than fast-combo decks like Belcher, PSI, and All Spells.

You can't have it both ways: you can be resilient against counterspells, or you can jam everything really quickly to force your opponent to Force or die. TES seems to me to be trying to hit a middle ground that doesn't really exist; you've got off-color rituals and little-to-no backup for your Tutors/Wishes, you're slower on average than the aforementioned decks, and you can't rebuild against anything but the "fairest" of "fair decks."

I still don't think it's a bad deck. I just don't think it's an appreciable improvement over dedicated YOLO decks.

>>51697638
>yet to see evidence
Who is Bryant Cook and what is scg coverage on youtube baka senpai.

>>51655609
Yeah I run the classic build. PSI is cool and fast but it has an literal 0% chance of going off again if it whiffs. CSI can get do-overs so I like it better.

>>51655609
And as for your list it looks good. Personally I fucking hate Ill Gotten Gains and I'd ditch it but that's just me. Not sure what you'd put in instead

>>51697531
What are your thoughts on a full-full-on grinding station style deck? No ad naus main, 2 pif, 1 or 2 SDT?

>>51697709
He is one guy who obsesses over his mediocre ANT-ripoff. I also think legacy is a format that rewards intimate knowledge of a particular deck, and since cook knows TES inside and out, he is probably the best pilot. However, why do you think TES almost never places well at big events while ANT consistently does? It's because the deck is, in general, much weaker.

>>51690891
thanks bruh! from memory, the sb was:

2 flusterstorm
2 duress
3 abrupt decay
2 pithing needle
1 coffin purge
1 blazing archon
1 inkwell leviathan
1 golgari charm
2 massacre

I sided in needle every round, abrupt decay 3 rounds, g-charm twice, and coffin purge once, didn't use anything else.

>>51697709

Cook is excellent at Magic. I'm not, and (no offense) I'd be willing to bet you aren't, either. I'd be interested to see how well Cook would do piloting other decks of a similar kind (AnT, Doomsday, etc.), primarily because I wouldn't be surprised if he were to perform very well with them as well, perhaps with a little practice.

As >>51698090 said, the proof is in the pudding, really; TES rarely places well, while AnT pilots still put up results even in a pretty hostile metagame. A part of that may be that fatigue is definitely a factor in large tournaments (again, TES is harder to pilot), but I think that TES has obvious weaknesses that AnT doesn't have. This wasn't always the case—TES, as I recall, came about to optimize the use of Ad Nauseam and Infernal-LED when AnT lists were still running multiple copies of Ad Nauseam. But times change, and Past in Flames has been an enormous boon to Storm decks that TES hasn't really been built to optimize.

>>51697819

I've never been a fan of those types of lists. I think they're great if the opponent doesn't have the means to close the game quickly, but it feels to me like they lean on cards that are generally awkward to have. The big difference, I feel, between "grinding station" and traditional lists is the number of copies of Tendrils. I really don't like drawing Tendrils pretty much ever. It's the kill card, but it's super awkward much of the time. Sensei's Top is also something I rarely use in AnT, primarily because it's really slow.

With all that said, I still have a Top and two extra copies of Tendrils in my sideboard. Desperate matchups call for desperate measures, and grindy builds definitely handle decks like Miracles a lot better than the typical plan does.

>not playing with a $30,000 deck

when did you realize you were a pleb?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8zv8irGIvU

>>51698786
I feel like if I were to play ANT, I would lean more towards a griding station style deck. But I guess if im going to play a sensei''s diviningg top storm deck I might as well be on DDFT.

>>51699854

I think Doomsday's a better choice for what it sounds like you want to do. Top is great for a number of things, but its comparative slowness certainly doesn't help. I tested it in the Storm maindeck for a bit and I didn't like it.

>>51698808
Fuck this guy. What is even the point of that? I get collecting things but it's fucking cardboard.

>>51702081
because he is obviously not good enough to play the game, judging from the video

Why is chalice 80 dollars now? Is there something I missed?
This makes putting together aggro loam a little more annoying.

>>51703469
I thought it was 40-50. Maybe you are looking at the masterpiece

>>51703788
It looks more like its 65ish. I was looking at the wrong number on tcg, yeah.

>>51703469
Cheeri0s has transcended meme status and become a deck in Modern, as if that format wasn't bad enough.

Cool rule of thumb: if a card is spiking it's Modern's fault, if a foil/Expedition printing of a card is high it's Legacy's fault.

>>51704215
>has placed literally nowhere on paper
>not meme

>>51704406
That's not quite true. It top 8'd a 160 player event on the 4th. The new version of the deck with Sram hasn't existed long enough for it to have a chance to put up real paper results. Its definitely still meme status in modern but it's getting enough hype to artificially drive up the cost of chalice, which kills it comically.

>>51698090
>>51698786
Cook is easily in Top 5 best TES pilots. Fatigue, luck, amount of decks played are all factors in tournament results.

TES is played much less than ANT, TES is harder to play at it's best compared to ANT. ANT has better recovery from hate if opponent can't close the game quickly. All these factors, especially the fact that ANT is played much more goes in to why TES doesn't have similar standings to ANT.

To top it all off, most competitive players very rarely choose to bring decks that are tolling or in other words require you to be sharp throughout the whole event to get the best results. If you're a good player, you'll have better chances with a good deck that's easier to pilot than with a good deck that's demanding to pilot and requires more practice.

If I went to tournaments for money, results and "career" - I would heavily reconsider taking a storm deck, even more so in the current meta, where most popular meta decks are a naturally bad match up.

However, please don't forget that what makes a deck good or bad are not the tournament results, but the design and player behind it.

>>51706694
To some extent this goes for lots of underelayed decks. I think there are metagames where any given storm variant could be the best, from Belcher to Doomsday.

>>51708575
>be high tide player
>forever irrelevant
>tolarian academy is banned

WHAT DOES A MAN HAVE TO DO TO PLAY A SOMEWHAT COMPETITIVE 20 MINUTE COMBO TURN MASTURBATION DECK?

http://wpn.wizards.com/en/article/whats-new-amonkhet

Full Art Promo lands confirmed.

Unban Mana drain.
Make scepter great again

>>51709786
Just play the deck anyway my dude. It occasionally puts up results. Make a bug version so you can play abrupt decay so you can beat miracles.

File: 37896_200w.jpg (16KB, 200x285px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 200x285px

>>51710240
>Full Art Promo lands confirmed.

What's everyone's favorite Full Art lands? For me it's Unhinged.

>>51710682
when was the last result it put up? 2012? Trust me I would love to play but its getting really frustrating when I am doing my best and all I get is shit on because wizards decided creature tapping is just the fun part of magic and should be the only fun part.

Hell, even fucking storm is having a problem putting up consistent results now.

>>51710862
Based on mtggoldfish and mtgtop8, storm seems to be the third most popular archetype, behind miracles and various delver decks. It is also the most represented combo decks. I think storm isn't actually as bad as you are saying right now, especially since eldrazi has been fading away over the past few weeks/month

>>51710862
I'm more than happy if I don't see high tide against anyone. Fun deck, but it's awful to play against. Storm is ok as it's at least fast to resolve when they do the combo.

>>51710976
I'd rather see high tide go off for 20 mins than watch another fucking Miracles vs Miracles stand-off

>>51711877
Stop it! My dick can only get so hard.

>>51710862
Someone 5-0'd the MTGO league with High Tide 2 weekends in a row last month. Of course if you comb through league results you'll find plenty of fringe decks. I don't know f a m, I'd just play the deck you like. If you really can't win, switch it up. There's gotta be another deck you'd like.

>>51710787
I'd have to agree

Why do they even make "normal" lands anymore?

>>51591573
>lurker here
>he posted

>>51714705
because then they won't have something to make the packs seem special.

>>51636646
I'm interested in getting into LEgacy playing pox, and I've been playing 8Rack/Smallpox in modern for a while now; what are the most crucial cards I need to get to get a list like this http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/8rack_with_tom_ross.html to be legacy playbe? from what it looks like 4 Sinkhole, 1 Tomb of Urami, 4 Mishras factory and 4 Pox look like all it takes save for some changes to the sideboard of course

>>51715483
As far as I know, there are two flavors of pox in legacy: the typical mono-b and then g/b loam pox. Both are sort of fringe decks, but if thats the style you want to play, then go for it. I don't think many current lists play sinkhole or original pox, but sinkhole might still have a place in mono-b. For pox to actually function in legacy, you definitely need wasteland and hymn to tourach. Most lists also play dark ritual for a faster start. I also think innocent blood is better than other removal spells like dismember. Cursed scroll is a pretty good card in a pox shell too. Also a lot of lists play the expensive stax cards from legends like the abyss, nether void, chains of mephistopheles, and maybe even a tabernacle or two. However, I dont think these are 100% necessary, especially for smaller events.

Here is a pretty bare bones list I found online: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14215&d=284756&f=LE

And there is always the source pox page where a lot of more current discussion takes place. I also think they prefer the loam version to the mono-b version, because of the power of cards like loam, abrupt decay, and crop rotation.

>>51715483
This guy >>51716371 covered most of it. Tomb of urami is kind of spicy but personally i've liked it a lot. You probably only want 1-2 big poxes. If you have liliana of the veil already there aren't really any super expensive cards left to make a decent mono-b pox deck. Ensnaring bridge in the board maybe is the only one, except you should have that for 8rack already. I think you should pick up a Nether Spirit as well, freely recureable wincon. Good card in mono b. The BG version is probably a little better but a lot more expensive since you need a few duals, wastelands, etc.

>>51715483

Cursed scroll is excellent, Mishra's factory gets there, nether spirit is a good one of. But honestly the best wincon I ever played in monoblack pox was 2 empty the pits. You grind them down really well but it actually just wins the game when you cast it at the end of their turn for 5-10 tokens. Have some kind of answer for planeswalkers too, factories work well with a clear board but sometimes you really just need to kill a top-decked jace straight up. b/g doesn't care as much since you also can run pulse and decay. Cursed scroll works against lili but not so much jace. Spinning darkness can be a good mainboard if your meta allows for it to have targets, I ran it and syphon life in the side. Spinning darkness for delver, syphon life for burn, worked well enough. I'll agree with the other anon that innocent blood is very good, throw a deluge in too if you run mono black, pernicious deed would be fine in b/g I think? I've never run or seen b/g but I'd probably try it.

My lgs owner is being stupid and worrying about shit too much.

Examples of this as of late are
Overpriced boxes and fat packs at or above msrp.
increasing price of obnix vs nissa dd to 23$ because price of nissa spiked.
Satin towers being sold for 20$ each.
Increased cost of pre-release by 3$ because we had 20 some instead of 40some that we had in 2015/16
Opening planeswalker decks from this set to put rares in the display to sell.(3of each deck)
Not selling off fetchlands and other cards to vendors that have litterally been in that case for close to a year.
Having people open the standard showdown packs so that the indivual packs get drafted to winners.(yes really)
Bunch of other shit like that.

Anyways i only go on pre-release now and thats rare if i feel like going to those, and free commander nights if they get posted.
I got tired of wasting money on the game, got really heated and salty one night blew up and sold collection within a month.
There has been at least 4 people in store who have quite litterally stated to me or staff that the prices on products are too high but the staff don't even bat an eyelash and make an excuse.

But yet he was worried that not alot of players were going to show for aer pre-release so he jacks up the price a few bucks. That doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me.

Anyways, i kind of want to send him the latest rudy video that basically tells him to chill the fuck out, but since rudy says "you probably wont be at your current job 5-10 years from now" and it seems like he is going out of business and im no longer spending money there he may see it as an attack and attempt to ban me from the store.

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=lxZDOKLKl1c
Video in question.
Thoughts what i should do?

Also no im not desolater magic levrls of autism and going to give out store name since we all know what would happen there.

I love magic but i hate playing it.

>>51719286

sounds like he either has a failing business model or he's just fucking up. Stores won't make much money through the front-end. My lgs makes almost ALL it's money via sales on ebay, tcgplayer, etc. Everything else is totally unnecessary and honestly from a business standpoint makes little sense to continue to maintain. The owner just happens to enjoy having a good place for people to play games at, so it continues to exist. It just sounds to me like your guy is actually focusing on the front-end sales rather than online distribution and whatnot.

I played my store's monthly legacy event tonight. went 3-2 with Pox. Perhaps my favorite play of the night was against a Merfolk deck which sent in Mutavault, which I blocked with Mishra's Factory, then tapped the workshop so it was a 3/3.

That'll do, Factory. That'll do.

I pulled a Leovold, Emissary of Trest, and noticed it's fetching a pretty huge price. What is it played in?

>>51719870
Every bug deck

>>51719286
Since when does Mark from CGR play MTG? Why would he share this video?

>>51721448
He doesn't. Been using the tag for years now.
Pc monitor died have a phone so use it for everything now and it likes to link to your account when sharing.
But that can be easily changed.

Regardless i think game store is totally fucked.

Maybe i should move again before store up and dies.

>>51719286
Have you tried talking to the owner? The employees may not be relaying your concerns and likely can't do much on their own. Maybe you can convince them that their business practices are driving away customers before you up and leave?

What's everyone's best/favorite tournament result they've ever achieved in legacy?

>>51728113
4-0 with Belcher.

>>51728113
I went 3-1 with burn once. played against elves and two pox decks only to get btfo by miricals. That was way back when people were just starting to brew it. I remember the last pox match of that tournament I actually made a guy drop. I was on the play.
>land, bolt, pass
>swamp, thought seize, pass
>top deck a thunderous wrath, play it, land pass
>swamp, hymn, pass
>top deck another thunderous wrath, play it, pass
I don't remember what he did on his third trun...I think it was another hymn or something cause I didn't have a hand
>Top deck the third thunderous wrath, play it, pass
>"I just cant play this fucking game anymore" scoop phase, drops.
I love it when people get salty about dumb shit happening.

>>51728113
Perfect finish with DnT once, where I got to cast cataclysm 5 times over the evening.
That card feels so good when it resolves.

>>51728443

>Thunderbolt
>Thoughtseize
>Thunderous Wrath
>Thunderous Wrath
>Thunderous Wrath
>...pass?

Boy he was dead. That's 20 damage.

>>51728653
READING COMPREHENSION

>>51729147

I reading-comprehend just fine, thank you. You said you "passed" after the third Thunderous Wrath, though. 3+2+5+5+5=20. I'm just pointing out you wouldn't have passed after playing the third one, he would have just been flat out dead.

>>51728149
My best performance with Belcher was 3-3

>>51728113
My favorite tournament was when I drove 2 hrs through a blizzard to play a local win-a-dual while I had the flu. Top8'd, scrubbed out of the top 8 like a demon, and walked away with a Scrubland.

>>51730082
You're reading uncomprehending, anon. Where in the world are you getting a 2 from?

>>51730314
thoughtseize

>>51730397
Yeah, zero reading comprehension gong on there.

Lemme walk you through this right and slow. What was he playing? What was he playing against?

>>51730425
anon was playing "burn." his opponent was playing pox

>>51730425

He's playing Burn. The opponent is playing pox. When the pox player played Thoughtseize, he got to see the opponent's hand. He then gets to choose a nonland card from the burn player's hand for them to discard. The pox player then loses 2 life.

The pox player is then burned for 15 more. Along with the bolt, it's 20. I don't see why you're being difficult about this.

>>51730590
>>51730621
Yes, wonderful.
Now how did the opponent respond to getting blown out by topdecking?

>>51730697

He dropped instead of playing a second game.

>>51655609
Different SI guy here i run vanilla mono black SI, Death wish is fucking sweet and nobody gives a singular rats ass as long as you can keep above one life and maindeck a couple discard cards so you can shit on stifle or counters/burn.

>>51730734
Wonderful! Ten points to faggotdor!
You can do it if you try!

>>51730697
>thunderous wrath. pass
>pass

as opposed to

>thunderous wrath for lethal?

or

>thunderous wrath. gg?

>>51730747

So... you don't have a point? Congrats on wasting all of our time.

>>51728113

first time on high tide I went 5-0 and made every round go to time (unintentionally).

lmfao

Is there a 'booster' generator where I can select a set and generate X random cards from that set?

>>51731601
Tappedout has a draft simulator IIRC

>>51731601
http://mtgen.net/

>>51728113
Beating lands, nic fit, and ANT then elves in under 30 minutes each round to 4-0

Gimme the straight and narrow on UB Reanimator

I just watched LSV play it and my dick is rock hard. Looks fuckin rockin'

23 ticket burn deck went 5-0 in a mtgo league. Turns out Pyrostatic Pillar is as good as Eidolon.

>>51735699
It's a good deck. Very consistent and resilient. The black Show and Tell. Who doesn't want to play Yawgmoth's Bargain on lifelinking legs? It has a faster RB cousin if underground seas makes you nervous.

generals are what killed this board. Stop that.

>>51738299
Of all the places to complain, this is the one?

Also what are some good mono color decks?

Apparently Zoo is back, and this time with blue:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/this-month-in-legacy-february-legacy-challenge-and-reassessing-threats

Delver-Kird Ape-Narnam Renegade makes a whole lotta sense. Does it still count as Zoo if it's including Blue, though?

Also, it's interesting to see that Goyf, Bob, and Stoneforge are losing a lot of favorability with the printing of Fatal Push, and the rise in popularity of Gurmag Angler in decks with Black in them.

>>51738853
Death and Taxes and RB reanimator (technically mono black). I like to think you can get away with a mono U omnitell list too.

>>51738873
Golf and Bob had been on the way out before fatal push was printed. Removal has scarcely been a reason not to use something.

>>51739197
I was thinking of Onmitell except that I have a bad matchup towards D&T and seeing a dark ritual makes me cry.

>>51738873
>Does it still count as Zoo
Looks like rug delver to me.

>>51730747
>>51730734
>>51730697
>>51730621
>>51730590
>>51730425
>>51730397
>>51730314
>>51730082
>>51729147
>>51728653
I done goofed. It wasn't actually a thought seize. It was probably duress or cabal therapy, because I deistically remember him not actually being dead. WHOOPS! On a side note the first tournament I started playing 12post was fun too, just because of everyone's reactions. It made the vets start reminiscing about the olden days and they had a few laughs when I took a game on them because they weren't prepared to see it. They adjusted accordingly on games 2. The newer players that were on delver and D&T got BTFO because they had no idea what I was actually playing.

>>51739299
Yeah you could call it tempo zoo or something but really it's just a slightly more aggressive rug delver.

What does Cephalid Breakfast need to be a good deck? And why aren't all decks named after breakfast?

>>51728113
Getting a burn player to ragequit gp new jersey in the first round
>Nervous as fuck, first major event
>Drove from upstate ny to new jersey at 5 am with the windows down
>Get there
>R1G1T1
>Mountain, rift bolt, pass
>Land, inquisition, had o e more mountain in hand, take a bolt
>Plays his second land, drop to 13 turn 2
>Swamp, smallpox discarding bloodghast
>He hits me to 9, passes
>Swamp, sinkhole other mountain
>Doesnt draw another land the rest of the game

>G2
>goblin guide giving me a land
>Urborg, mox discarding wasteland, smallpox discarding ghast
>Guy is visibly upset
>Plays a land, bolt pass
>Swamp, sinkhole, swearing
>He draws a mountain and plays it, bolt
>Play a land, hit with ghast, LotV uptick
>He has one card in hand and bolts me
>Kill his last land, beat face 2 damage at a time
>Find out he scooped the gp and did side events the rest of the day
>Lose to 3 miracles decks and a D&T for the next 4 rounds

>>51738077
I was looking at ub because it seemed to have more play with the opponents deck.
Force of will is nice

>>51741757

It might have gotten a necessary combo pieces with Recruiter of the Guard. The rest of the deck just has to be geared towards protecting the combo, which uses activated abilities and creatures (so you'd have to be able to fend off creature kill and Pithing Needle).

As for why all decks aren't named after breakfast, it's because certain people get super upset when you don't have a deck name that gives information about the deck. But fuck those folks, honestly.

>>51741981

Sorry, I meant to type "It might have gotten a neccessary tool to search out combo pieces with Recruiter of the Guard."

Bump. I just recorded part 2 of my Doomsday piles videos. Gonna try to get it up later tonight.

>>51637145

>blue's "supposed" dominance
it's not hypothetical m8, the 2 most played cards are brainstorm and force of will

The format is good IN SPITE of the imbalance in colors

>>51744410
Brainstorm is good I'll admit, especially with fetches. Force is pretty much a necessary thing.

>>51671733
I want to play legacy because there's more interesting stuff (Omnitell, Turbo depths, 12post), and I thought maybe the cost might not so bad but I realized that it'll be a long time before it'll amount to anything.

>play legacy for first time since innistrad
>$10 to play
>meh sure
>cheapy burn deck that can surprise people with T3 kill
>first match
>3 mother of runes in a row
>Thalia
>TWO GAMES IN A ROW
>second match
>three tarmagoyfs
>TWO GAMES IN A ROW
>mfw in 4 games I saw one of my 4 Fireblasts or Lightning Bolts

Is there any fucking hope to find a place to play legacy that doesn't have scumbags running shit that should be on a ban list?

Modern is a skub format but Legacy should be fun. I can take losing with grace, but seeing this shit (with no fetching of said creatures) is fucking infuriating.


Also if you're a faggot who plays permission you deserve to be kneecapped. Making someone watch you slowplay MTG solitaire should be punishable by public flogging.

>>51745941
I'm prolly falling hard but git gud faggot.

>>51746031
>git gud
>at drawing cards randomly

Right lemme just slight of hand shuffle my way to a pro tour victory.

Why can't people who don't like legacy go back to their frontier containment threads

>>51746075
Why you not playin brainstorm nigger?

File: waste.jpg (1MB, 2816x2112px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2816x2112px

Wastes came in today. One step closer to pox. yay

>>51747089
>not judge wastes

>>51747944
>not white-bordered judge wastes

How do you guys like MTGO?

There is nobody in my area that has the money for Legacy so I don't even bother to buy into paper. However I do play on Xmage, which I hate.

Is MTGO really worth it? I hear nothing but bad shit about it

>>51748200
I mean, if you like paying for a defective product it's pretty OK.

>>51748227
What's wrong with it?

Every time I watch anyone stream it appears to work fine for them

>>51748255
It has a rules engine, IE it automatically does what the cards do, but it's buggy shit and frequently locks up or crashes on certain interactions.

>>51748200
Why play that when I can do the same thing with xmage for free?

File: LOL.jpg (331KB, 517x768px) Image search: [Google]

331KB, 517x768px

>>51747988

>>51748374
Because Xmage is buggy as hell too and has a very small Legacy playerbase.

The competition is also pretty lacking. Most players are bad or will just rage quit.

>>51748415
But you dont have to give hasjew your sheckles. I dont get the lacking legacy player base though. Like, its magic with no cost of entry, why botyher with dumb modern shit.

>>51748200
I play more Legacy on MTGO than in paper. I mostly bum around in the tournament practice room. There is a cost of entry but if you're like me and only play 1 deck, it's basically a 1 time cost. Xmage is ok too. it's harder to use than MTGO, interface wise. MTGo isn't great either though. Also the competition is better on MTGO, you can expect to play against someone who knows what they're doing the vast majority of the time.

Going to try to purchase some dual lands soon. Not necessarily for Legacy, more so for Commander but maybe theyll slot into something someday. Im either getting Unlimited Duals or Alpha/Beta.

Really wish the Legacy meta wasnt so stale right now

>>51746031
Parent dislikes counterspells, obviously he's a troll, you did fall hard.

>>51745941
if you hate control, play 12post and rotflstomp though it with giants and eldritch horrors.

>>51637773
Are you playing the list from the GP? Whats your opinion on Grave Titan over Tidespout tyrant in the main board?

>>51637773
Why RB over UB? Is the speed really worth more than blue cards?

Especially since UB is capable of going off immediately as well

>>51750348
12post is the most satisfying play experience of all time. Nothing quite like watching fancy delver lists with techy splashes flail helplessly against a chalice on 1 and a trinisphere on t2

>>51750529
the really reason to play rb intead of ub is because your turn 1 win percentage is much higher, mostly because of sire of insanity and unmask chancellor

>>51750560
Is 12post playing chalice thesee days? Don't they want to play crop rotation and shit?

>>51750529
RB is a more even split between all the necessary pieces with more ways to bin fatties and Annex protection instead of pondering to find more ponders and not being able to race DRS. The deck goes off like 80% of the time t1, 95% t2 given you know how to mulligan.

>>51753083
Ive actually considered doing that. I mean theres no way to turn 1 it, butalthough crop rotation is good, it makes me a bit uneasy. Just cause if they counter it, you just payed one mana to pop your own land. And almost every deck runs force now, and most of the ones that dont run wastes.

>>51750529
I guess people wanted more speed. Iv'e been told the RB is WAY cheaper than the UB as well. I mean I would think RB has a way better combo match up. Witch was one of UBs problems if I remember. I think it would be 'better' against miricals as well since its so fast. I also wouldnt be that surprised if reanimator making a comback just because there hasn't been a big graveyard deck in a while, so maybe people went away from grave hate in the side? Espically after delver and miracles started running the format.

File: 6.jpg (86KB, 267x267px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 267x267px

>>51750401
I was running mostly the same list at the GP. The only difference being the sidebaord (which was built to take advantage of a Scrubland since I couldn't get a hold of a Bayou in time), Tidespout, and the Moxen which I'd been eyeballing just before the event but didn't pull the trigger on. Haven't been disappointed with their inclusion yet.

On the topic of Grave Titan vs. Tidespout, I dropped Tidespout as it felt like UB was better equipped to take advantage of it. That may be the wrong assessment. It seems like something you want to bring out after you've landed G-money to lock out your opponent or to deal with Lands. I've yet to encounter a situation where I really wanted Tidespout over something else so I'm inclined to label it as a meta call. Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm not thinking about something. I'll keep it in the side for now.

>>51750529
Black is my favorite color next to blue and I've always wanted a reanimator deck. Since my blue staples are tied up in Storm and Miracles, BR gave me an excuse to pick up all the other cool black cards without dismantling either of my other decks. I'm glad I built it when I did. Scored a playset of NM Badlands while they were half the price of what there going for now.

>Playing vs High Tide
>I play Chalice on 1 and see nothing but Polluted Deltas for 3 turns, conclude he's on some Storm deck
>He wishes for Hurkyls and goes off
>3 Time Spirals and 10 minutes later he fizzles
>Game 2 I bring out all of my creature hate, bring in a Notion Thief, a Trinisphere and 2 Flusterstorms
>Play another Chalice on 1 and durdle for a bit, get Thoptersword online but it doesn't matter since he wished for Hurkyls again
>He goes to 5 before blowing it
>Starts going off next turn with High Tide
>He's got 2 cards in hand, goes for the Time Spiral
>Windmill slam Notion Thief

Post blowout plays

>>51757121
>Playing nic fit
>His turn one is putrid imp
>My turn 2 Anafenza from my toolbox list
>He ditches a grave troll in response to keep it from exiling
>He dredges, I have him reiread the card