Is L5R still a thing? I know the tcg is getting redone but what

>>51583515
What is l5r

Plenty of people still play it. Was there another question you had that warranted started an entire thread?

>>51583530
Legend of the five rings. Fantsy bushido and honorobu samurai where lolrandum players are dueled or commit sudoku.

>>51583555
Didn't see any l5r threads available, so I decided to start one and get more people talking.

People still play the RPG, the CCG is deader than a thing that is dead, Fantasy Flight owns the entire IP and are at the very least making an LCG that they're revealing at GenCon.

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SOOO....

Which clan is the best and why is it Mantis?

Didn't they get bought out by another company? What happened with that?

>>51584179
Fantasy Flight Games owns it now and they're making it into a netrunner style game if i remember correctly. We should hear about it in gencon

So since the general is dead and gone, does anyone know if there's a no-dachi focused school in the RPG?

>>51584812
>>51584812
NO! Why would there be?? A nodachi is NOT a katana!!! WHY WOULD YOU ASK THIS?!?!?

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>>51584870

>>51584812
I don't think there is, but the 4th ed rules have rules to make this sort of thing. Sounds like a crab or a lion thing, though. Check there.

>>51584899
Look, kid - it's clear you want to max out on your uber-bigbad two-handed maximum damage sword.....but grow up, eh? If all you get out of L5R is "muh, I wanna use the BIG sword!", then you are missing out on literally EVERYTHING that the game has to offer. EVERYTHING. Go back and read the book again.

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>>51584973

Your autism is showing, my dude.

"Okay" he says, in an attempt to divert the oncoming shitstorm.

How would you properly play a Scorpion without going into the "lol im so sneaky and evul" territory? Sounds like they're kinda like oWoD malkavians in the maturity they require.

>>51584812
Just be a Moto Bushi and wreck the fuck out shit. A Moto Bushi can easily start with 8k3 damage (3k3 No-Dachi +3k0 Strength (school), +1k0 R1 Tech, +1k0 Kenjutsu 3 Master).

>>51585139
Nailed it. Mature players only. Scorpions aren't villains.....

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>>51585067
hue hue
That can't be the best you got....seriously, kiddo - lerk moar.

>>51584146
Because your bitch ass wanted to play pirates in a samurai game.

>>51584812
Mirumoto Sword Master works pretty good for this sort of thing.

>>51584812
No-dachi focus? No, but any school that has techniques usable with any type of sword and does not require dual wielding can use them.

>>51584812
There's a pseudo-canon school for a pseudo-canon Minor Clan. Otherwise, nada.

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>>51584146
That's a weird way to say Crab Clan

>>51585139
>How would you properly play a Scorpion without going into the "lol im so sneaky and evul" territory? Sounds like they're kinda like oWoD malkavians in the maturity they require.

The stereotypical loyal ninja retainer/bodyguard who does dishonorable things because his/her lord needs them done is supposed to be the Scorpion OOC stereotype.

>>51583515
Pre-Coup/Coup Era a best. The rest a shit. Spirit Wars was kinda okay. Exodus was also passable.

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>>51585663
That is the most fucked up way to spell Unicorn I've ever seen.

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>>51585830
Your inability to spell Phoenix disgraces your family.

>>51585830
Kirin ain't never heard o' this unicorn shit....

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Shadow lands now and forever.

>>51583515
>Is L5R still a thing?
Vaguely. Supposedly new setting update, new CCG, new RPG.

Supposedly.

Nobody's sure if anyone will care, though.

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>>51586032
That is Shit Clan Mon. This is the Shadowlands Mon.

>>51585234
>No-Dachi
>not Tetsubo
>not Ono
YOU'RE PLAYING CRAB WRONG ANON

>>51586133
>Shit clan mon

Literally because of that "shitty clan mon" the Shadowlands won. And it won so bad that even if they just wash away that victory, unless they burn all the connections and ignore all player input and hooks we placed in the empire that has to do with the Spider clan, the will of Daigotsu and Fu Leng lives on.

So fuck your divisive ass, and you are welcome.

>>51587365
The best thing FFG can do is reset the setting entirely.

>>51587365
>ignore all player input
>implying spider clan got plot armour because of player input
>people actually believe this
Players fucking hated the Spider Clan. The creative team made them win _despite_ player input.

>>51585663
>>51585830
>>51585966
>>51586032
No anons, >>51584146 anon spelled Mantis correctly

Impromptu haiku contest lets go!

>a "holy man" farts
>and fools praise its aroma
>as fools so oft do

Who will writes L5R now? How much influnce does Wick has on L5R? Fuck Wick

>>51587528
He has 0 influence on it for a while now.

>>51584146
I have a weakness for the Unicorn clan, way happened to them after Moto Chagatai did i write the name correctly? attacked the capital? Anyone got the links tha where posted in the general OPs?

>>51587506
"The Emerald Empire"

>>51587411
Blame the Brand Manager that lasted less than six months for Onyx.

The original post-Ivory story plan was likely originally going to be the Empire fracturing between Progressive and Traditionalist lines with the side whose heir did not become Emperor rebelling.

That Brand Manager pretty much said "Screw that! War with Shadowlands for 20th anniversary."

>>51587332
>Moto
>Crab

>>51587689
What's the name of this brand manager? I wanna send hime some anthrax in the mail.

>>51587702
I'm sorry, I'm a cock-sucking faggot who say "moto" and somehow thought that said "hida."
Please, forgive my stupidity.

>>51587555
Oh thank goodness, Wick is a terrible person who somehow still still try to lublish stuff but at least L5R has a chance of being fixed now

>>51587729
>Now
He has been gone for over 10 years, probably more. Have you ever read 4th edition?

>>51587717
No problem, mistakes happen.

>>51587689
Which was exactly what we did in Winter Court 4 and was a natural progression that would make everyone happy beside the people who hates the Spider clan.

>>51587740
I know, i mean he made at lesat another rpg or published something since he left L5R. Last thing i knew thathappened was the Moto attacking the capital so i am way out ofvthe loop.

>>51587411
Which Spider clan?
Infiltrator? What's to hate it's just the Shadowlands killing you from far away of the wall. It's literally the same thing as the City of Lost.
Spider Clan in the destroyer war? Yeah it fucking sucked but newsflash everything sucked in Destroyer War, it was a piece of shit.
Spider Clan as an actual great clan in the age of exploration?
Tainted individuals were sent to kill giant monsters in the jungle, Susumu manipulators were present in like, a couple courts and that's about fucking it. They barely had a presence in the setting and were relegated mostly to the Ivory Kingdoms. What's to hate here?

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>>51583515
I'm playing literally right now. Going fine. Scorpion clan all the way?

>>51587776
He did publish "blood and honor" which it's a thing that exists but he did so on his own, he was gone from AEG.

By the way, FFG owns the rights for the card game and the rpg now, but no new products have been released yet.

>>51587407
>implying FFG won't sell us the game multiple times over, once for each era.
Worked for Star Wars.

>>51587717
Can't find any real info on him. Dave Laderoute ended up replacing him in March of 2015.

>>51587757
Yeah, I was with you there.

>>51587784
>Spider Clan as an actual great clan in the age of exploration?
>Tainted individuals were sent to kill giant monsters in the jungle, Susumu manipulators were present in like, a couple courts and that's about fucking it. They barely had a presence in the setting and were relegated mostly to the Ivory Kingdoms. What's to hate here?

Most of the complaints were tied to Kanpeki conquers the Empire with unstoppable undead army in the lead up to Onyx and the choices Dave was pretty much forced to give the Spider clan in 2015 "Great Clan or Greatest Clan."

>>51587871
>no new products have been released yet.
They did put out a PDF of the Atlas of Rokugan.

>>51587871
He published something after he left AEG, a guide to GM called Play Dirty

>>51587880
As someone who played Spider exclusively ever since they were introduced, no.

I'm sorry, I don't want to sound like an ass, but no. People hate Spider for two factors:
Destroyer War asspull
+
Ignorance over their presence on the Age of Exploration. ("What Rokugan now accepts those who are tainted? They killed the setting!!!" was one of the most repeated argument I had to read with FRO posters)

>The Onyx bullshit

40% of the Spider player base voted "no" for that. I don't fault the community, I fault the choices presented. It's fucking retarded man.

Hate should be directed at the people who came up with that shitty idea not the "Spider clan" as a faction, hell the Onyx Empire aren't even the Spider clan anymore according to the limited lore we got out of that shitty event.

>>51587882
Not a new product, they just published when it was done. It was all created under AEG and was hyped for years.

>>51583515

It's around, but it isn't popular.

L5R suffers from metaplot-itis, and while AEG has desperately tried moving away from that with the Imperial Histories books, I don't think that anyone can really disagree that the Spider Clan, Imperial Colonies, Destroyer War bullshit has irreperably damaged the integrity of L5R's setting with how botched they were.

The entire Iweko era and all its social upheaval was just too much for most people to deal with, and there was a large drop-off in players after it.

Which is a shame, because the Imperial Colony was the most exciting thing to me as a GM, since it was poorly defined and wide open for adventure, and frontier politics.

>>51587994
>Iweko Era
What happened during that time? I forgot L5R existed for a While after Iweko became Impress. I just didn't care anymore but that was before she even tried to get the throne

>>51587880
>Can't find any real info on him. Dave Laderoute ended up replacing him in March of 2015.

Found him: Rob Vaux. Freelance Writer and Movie reviewer. Was part of the original '95 dev team.

>>51587955
Sorry, meant most of the complaints for that section of time (Ivory) were tied to the Onyx bullshit. I'm a Crane/Spider fan myself and have been following the Spider since the final legs of Race for the Throne. Players were actually starting to mellow to the Spider presence before Onyx started getting revealed.

And yes, Goddess, Part 4 (?) was bullshit. Everyone was all hyped for an all Empire Kyuden Ashinagabachi final battle, but most of the hate started with people misunderstanding the Race of the Throne loser prize: (temporary) Clan dissolution and a Celestial Edition (potential) redemption story arc.

Seemed like every time the Spider hate started dying down something stupid would rekindle the dying embers.

>>51588206
>Rob Vaux.
Isn't he the guy who wrote Tomb of Iuchiban?

>>51588235
Yes.

>>51588317
What else did he do?

>>51588338
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/42816.Rob_Vaux list Book of the Shadowlands and some 7th Sea stuff, but he seems to mostly do Movie Reviews.

Seeing as he may have been the original Shadowlands nut I'm not surprised he tried to destroy the Spider.

>>51588425
1e core credits him with helping develop the Crab and writing up the Geography section.

>>51588450
Not surprising.

Is there anything about the Nezumi in the Relaunch?
After they killed them I lost all interest in L5R

>>51588518
Pretty much nothing is known at this point. Any thing anyone says is hearsay.

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>>51584146
Funny. I thought they were just a bunch of dirty ronin of the isles that think they actually have enough culture to be a clan?

>>51585663
And you don't call the janitor staff a clan either. It allows them to put on airs.

>>51585830
Who let the gaijin into the house? Someone call security. They need to be escorted out.

>>51585966
Well at least you brought out an actual clan. Too bad they spend so much time needing to be hunted down by the janitors for being unclean. Still can't claim best. But better then others.

>>51583515
Here's a permanent link to the new Discord:

https://discord.gg/Yr9AS


Features a bot,
Looking for group section,
Lots of resources,
And morrreeee!

>>51588740
If the Mantis were ronin they would never helped when they did more than once, The Crab clan is why you exist all clans have existed as long as they did, The Moto are not the Unicorn clan entire clan and the Pheonix aren't all aren't that unclean. big talk from a clan of money makers, people that gained their position as the left hand of the Empero by marriage to dynasty of Emperors, are born with expensive chopstics in thir mouth and are so arrogant they are hated by the other clans.
You disgust me little Crane

Hey guys, i stopped reading L5R years ago shortly after the Iuchiban fiasco so what did i miss?

>>51584812
Why do you need techniques for no-dachi specifically? It's already a kenjutsu skill weapon. If you want to use one more effectively, take a school that does melee attacks as a simple action; ie, Daidoji, Matsu, Bayushi, Moto, Taoist Swordsman, etc.

>>51585139
>How would you properly play a Scorpion without going into the "lol im so sneaky and evul" territory?
Standard Scorpion is honourable until ordered, and the standard scheme isn't a cackling evil plan, but simply helping other Rokugani not lose face or break Bushido, and owe the Scorpion a favour.

>>51587740
>Have you ever read 4th edition?
Mate. 2nd edition was 2000. Wiki says Wick was involved in Imperial and Jade editions, which puts his leaving around 98.

>He has been gone for over 10 years, probably more.
Closer to 20 at this point. How long til anon can just let it go?

>>51589135
http://www.kazenoshiro.com/fictions/

>what did I miss?
Lotus Edition, Samurai Edition, Celestial Edition, Emperor Edition, Ivory Edition, Onyx Edition (aborted, possibly about to relaunch in a few months).

>>51589473
What RPG stuff corresponds to what edition?

>>51589135
Age of Enlightenment (Lotus): the clans competed to be the most enlightened. Crane won but nothing came of it.

Race for the Throne (Samurai): The clans competed to see who would be Emperor and his/her Chosen. Dragon won Emperor and put Kitsuki Iweko on the Throne. Spider Clan (founded by Daigotsu) "loses."

Destroyer War (Celestial): a Shadowlands empowered Goddess from India invades Rokugan search for a chunk of her power. Much of Rokugan wrecked and a new pit is formed in the Scorpion lands after Fu Leng sacrifices himself and Daigotsu becomes a God to kill Kali-Ma in a widely unpopular stop named Goddesses. Spider wins the right to foster the/an Imperial Heir when a Pheonix decides that a Spider raised heir would be more interesting than a Crane raised one and Lion win an Imperial Legion (that is quickly forgotten about).

Age of Conquest (Emperor): Rokugan conquers the ruined remains of the Ivory Kingdoms (not-India). Mad Dragon Pan-Ku causes chaos in the new Colonies until elder of two Imperial Heirs (the one not raised by the Spider) asks him to stop and go back to heaven.

A Brother's Destiny (Ivory): Progressives (supporters of the younger Spider fostered Shibatsu raised in the Colonies) and Traditionalists (supporters of the trained by every clan but Spider Seikan) try to get their heir to be next Emperor. Seikan gets the throne because AEG hides a bunch of scoring metrics and then makes WC4 a fixed competition biased in favor of Seikan.

Unnamed due to sale to FFG (Onyx): Kanpeki (Daigotsu's son) rebels after being replaced as leader of the Spider clan by Seikan (now Iweko II). Kanpeki conquers Rokugan with army of zombies and shadowlands monsters. Iweko II and a bunch of others flee to the Colonies.

>>51589504
4th edition is "timeline neutral."

>>51589615
>4th edition is "timeline neutral."
The previous ones aren't, though.

>>51589644
I think 1st ed is Clan War, 2nd is up to Four Wind and 3rd is up to Age of Enlightenment.

>>51589755
Should be able to work it out from the dates.

>>51589615
Jesus the plot is such a terrible cluster fuck

>>51583515
Question of Honor: Use of the Sneak skill to ambush enemies is of course, a low act and corresponds to a loss of honor. Query: If a Crab Bushi uses Sneak to Ambush Shadowlands monster, should it equate loss of honor? They aren't Samurai, they're unholy abominations. CAN you lose honor as long as you kill them?

>>51589880
That is what happens when you allow cardgames to determine a plot. From the very beginning, a cluster fuck. It's a history of clusterfucks that finally petered out.

It's honor neutral for the most part. But do it in the Empire instead of the Shadowlands or the Wall and you could be called out for your cowardice and face the repercussion of that. But then again, anyone watching you kill Shadowlands monsters is in danger of being tainted themselves so...

>>51584146
Because they're big bullies who force other minor clans to lose all their individual personality and end up as just more big bully pirates?

>>51587729
Show me on the straw man where he hurt you, anon.

>>51590097
It worked at the very beginning.
Everything up to the Day of Thunder was fine.
I know that's hard to believe, because a lot of that was due to a guy that apparently went around to every middle school in America over the last twenty years and put every anon in a locker and stole their lunch money, judging by the irrational butthurt any time he comes up, but it was an actual success.
But that was, and should have been, The End.
And it wasn't.
Things went downhill from there.

>>51586133

You do realism the shadow lands mon is a close up shot of the spider clan?

The spider clan is the shadow lands

>>51590197
Anon are you ok? Are you having a stroke?

>>51590197
Are you making things up again, Spider?

>>51587994


The concept of samurai finally deciding to explore in the most haphazard way possible is pretty great. There was a story about the crab descovering elephants, they couldn't decide if they were oni or just beasts.

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>>51590222
>>51590221

Over 9000 hrs in Spen app

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>>51584146
>>51585663
>>51585830
>>51585966
>>51588740
I believe you were all meant to write "Scorpion Clan".

>>51585139
How to run a Scorp by Class:
>Bushi: Study the character "Kuwabatake Sanjuro", in the movie "Yojimbo" (if you don't have that, watch Sergio Leone's "A Fistful of Dollars", and study The Man with No Name.) He's a great example of a Scorpion Bushi.
>Courtier: You read faces. You understand people, their strengths, and their insecurities. If they have an arm swung at you, you twist it. You make them say 'uncle'. Then, they should thank you for not cutting it off.
>Shugenja: You are the special effects guy in a play. You make sure that no gaffes are showing, no wires are seen hanging. You must suspend the audience's disbelief.
>Infiltrator: ...This is how you play an Infiltrator...

>>51587994
>The entire Iweko era and all its social upheaval was just too much for most people to deal with, and there was a large drop-off in players after it.

No, it was the Lotus levels of power imbalance that Emperor had that drove players away and overpowered Mantis/Crane economies at the start of Ivory. Emperor and Ivory were not casual friendly environments.

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>>51583515
>want to play L5R
>can't sell it to my players

Help me, /tg/. I think they just have the wrong idea and think of it as anime or something.

>>51584146

I was always a Tsuruchi player myself, which means now mantis.

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>>51590563
>>Courtier: You read faces. You understand people, their strengths, and their insecurities. If they have an arm swung at you, you twist it. You make them say 'uncle'. Then, they should thank you for not cutting it off.
sounds familiar

>>51583515
>I know the tcg is getting redone but what about the rpg?
No news so far, but I imagine it'll be a clean start if they release the fifth edition under new management. I personally never liked all the extraneous clans pat the initial seven ones because all others essentially just dilute concepts and ideas that could've been used as houses and bloodlines within existing clans.

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So I like parts of L5R
>the giant Clans warring off and on with each other
>Samurai, Monks, and Wizard by any other name
>A Great Wall guarding a No Mans Land with a portal to literal Hell at the center
>Foreign factions that could be used as antagonists and the occasional protagonist

But the constant muh honor super stereotypical idealized hyper weebshit turns me off

I like a lot of the settings elements and a few of the mechanics but I just can't get over some of the shit the game does

>>51590800
But, L5R is distinctly not weeb. If anything it would be a game aimed at samurai Japanophiles obsessing over strict social norms of feudal Japan. That's not really what being a weeb covers.

>>51583515
>dat feel when my 1st edition game is still on hiatus

Fucking lazy players. By god I should ditch them and find another group, but finding players who want to play L5R is rare enough to bear with it.

>>51583515
GMed a o eshot on a convent this winter. One of players really liked it and said that he wants to introduce it to his own group.
It's a good system with crunchy but balanced enough mechanics and enough additional books so you don't get bored with same 20-30 schools from core. I guess it will stay around for another decade or so at least.

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>>51590828
thing with legend of the five rings is you really need all the players to be on the same page with what kind of game you're going with. if people have different ideas about what kind of setting it is and what characters they're playing it just leads to conflicts and someone will walk away disappointed.

>>51590892
Which is true of pretty much any RPG.

>>51585139
The difference between Scorpions and cranes (both known for their scheming ability) is alike difference between crabs and lions.
All four are honorable, but Scorpions/Crabs are more likely to put Duty and Loyalty before Honor. In case of Crabs it is solving clan's and empire's problems via tetsuboing it till dead. In case of Scorpions - less honorable plots than empire's average. But only if more honorable options are less efficient

>>51588101
>What happened during that time?
Rokugan went to war with India, tried their hand at colonization, then got pretty fucked up by Spider Clan and shadowlands. In the end, Iweko was able to make a deal with Kanpeki into getting a ceacefire, but unreleased lore was gonna get rid of that and have the Spider Clan conquer all of rokugan, so that the exiled Rokugani in the colonies would have to conquer it back.

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>>51590828
>a game aimed at samurai Japanophiles obsessing over strict social norms of feudal Japan
That's what I meant, I looked at this game thinking I was gonna get something like Samurai Warriors, Vagabond, and Ninja Scroll
Skilled warriors from the great noble houses battling it out for control of the country or allying with each other to fight off demon or gaijin invasion
Instead I got nothing but internal politicking based around a Feudal Japan that never existed

>>51589880
>Query: If a Crab Bushi uses Sneak to Ambush Shadowlands monster, should it equate loss of honor?
Ambush is always a loss of honour. The rest of your actions may involve an honour gain that technically leaves you with less of a loss/net neutral/gaining honour, but the need for an ambush should gall you.

>>51591017
>Skilled warriors from the great noble houses battling it out for control of the country or allying with each other to fight off demon or gaijin invasion

But it is that. Or isn't depending on what your game is like. You can have an entire courtier campaign where you never even draw your swords or a Crab campaign where you do the opposite. That's really why anon above is correct - you need to be clear what kind of a game you're running.

>>51591035
> but the need for an ambush should gall you.

to be fair, it's not like samurai can't run mental gymnastics and rationalizations to get around that.

>>51591035
>Ambush is always a loss of honour.
Actually, I take that back. What seems to be lost in assigning everything an honour loss, is that the loss should be secondary to pushing the character's honour rank in the direction of where their actions dictate they should be on a scale from 0.0 to 10.0 Honour.

>>51590697
Make them watch soma Akira Kurosawa movies. Play earth-2 letality level (the only good one).

>>51591062
None of which matter. It's not about whether you feel good afterwards, but whether you are actually an honourable samurai or not.

If you do have ways to fool honour reading samurai who might look at you and judge you based on that, then Perceived Honour is the advantage for you.

It's just a shame that the 4e writers who felt that way didn't convince those who thought you should be able to be a lying, cheating SOB within the dictates of certain techniques and still come out of it with high honour.

>>51590735
Lesser clan's are fine fluff-wise. Just treat them as greater clan they are influenced by when calculating (dis)advantage costs.

>>51584146
Blatant creator favoritism.

>>51591120
>It's just a shame that the 4e writers who felt that way didn't convince those who thought you should be able to be a lying, cheating SOB within the dictates of certain techniques and still come out of it with high honour.

That's kinda part of the problem with the conflicting definitions of honor in 4e. Is it an internal self view or external cultural view? Different techniques, (dis)advantages and mechanics treat it differently.

Say something bad about a Tortoise? That is more an external cultural view.
Idealistic disadvantage makes you lose more honor? That is more internal.

>>51591155
From what I've heard WotC pretty much gave Mantis Great Clan status even though Fox was the preferred leading family for the player base.

>>51590800
Most L5R players I know enjoy honor mechanics. Half of them aren't weebs.

But if it bugs you, it is perhaps the easiest part of system to detach.

>>51591226
>Is it an internal self view or external cultural view?
Each samurai has been exposed to a dialogue on the nature of honour and what constitutes honourable behaviour in given circumstances since before they could walk. They're keenly aware of honour. That much is internal, but I'd say metaphysical - your honour rank measures your adherence to Bushido over your understanding of it, even if you took Doubt: Bushido, Perfection, Fukurokujin's Curse, and so on to the point that no Lore: Bushido roll will ever succeed.

I wouldn't say the Tortoise technique is external. It's not a glory loss that the Tortoise is telling others how shit you are at following the emperor's orders, instead the effect is simply there to tally when a specific edict of the emperor is broken. You broke it, and your honour is adjusted.

>>51591440
Could be wrong, but I don't think he cares that honour is measured, only that players can't into anything but "no honour" and "strength of 1000 ancestors!", with everything in between being lost in the noise. If you haven't experienced that, then count yourself lucky.

What's the best way I can build a tank in L5R?

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>>51591701
>Could be wrong, but I don't think he cares that honour is measured, only that players can't into anything but "no honour" and "strength of 1000 ancestors!", with everything in between being lost in the noise. If you haven't experienced that, then count yourself lucky.

That basically, everything seems to be this incredibly idealized and also inaccurate version of how bushido and face and honor are supposed to work in feudal Japan which if you are going by the rules and what the setting seems to want from you limits your options significantly. Or at least that's my take on it

Most of the stuff I dislike about it probably stems from my experience with the system, the game I played in was a very hackneyed court intrigue thing and I'm a guy that needs to see at least some action every now and then, and the GM was going full honorubru Samurai so anything that could possibly considered a slight or breach of etiquette was

>>51591868
I can see why you would think that. Most probably it was your GM's fault in this, because quoting a box in page 32 of the 4th ed core book:

"Rokugan, Not Japan
The world of Rokugan is heavily based on the history and culture of feudal Japan, with lesser but still significant influences from China, Korea, Mongolia, and other parts of Asia. However, it is important for players of Legend of the Five Rings to realize that Japan is a source of inspiration, not a rigid template. Many aspects of Rokugan differ, sometimes quite significantly, from the historical samurai culture of Japan. Players should keep this in mind before automatically expecting every aspect
of Rokugan to replicate the real societies and
peoples who inspired it."

But this could just be them covering their arses, what do I know?

>all these people complaining that l5r is an innacurate/idealized view of feudal japan
As if all fantasy isn't an innacurate/idealized view on whatever historical setting its based on

>>51591925
>But this could just be them covering their arses, what do I know?
To a certain extent, Rokugan has never been Japan, and by the release of 4e they're absolutely covering their arses against anyone arguing that it's too much like Japan, or not enough. That actually became something of a problem, from what I've heard. Even in the original CCG, Wick & Co were looking at MTG and comparing how well legit Japanese names rolled off the tongue - which is how Toturi and Hoturi got their pseudo-Japanese names.

L5R is basically encapsulated in pic related >>51591868.

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Can someone post the .pdf for the core rule book? Thinking about starting up a game

>>51592069
Don't have the main link, but this should do.
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/xpa768hxwcezl/RPG#2nbbe1kyny4qo

>>51591925
>Lesser extend China
The entire court/imperial system is based straight of China without a single lick of Japan.

>>51590800
There are literally clans that give 0 fucks about Honor. The Crab being one of them.

>>51589615
>WC4 a fixed competition biased in favor of Seikan.
In wich the progressists won by their own insane metrics. But because a single traditional clan was the top clan it was awarded to then anyway.

>>51588206
>Seemed like every time the Spider hate started dying down something stupid would rekindle the dying embers.

Pretty much and it usually was BECAUSE they did not follow the plot decided by the fans. Kinda funny how that works.

>>51590800
But honor is precisely what makes it not weeb. The only people I've met complaining about honor were those who saw the breaking of their expectations of playing an ebin anime character.

And precisely what makes the setting interesting to be honest, otherwise it would be your classic D&D world but now with katanas.

>>51591868
>the game I played in was a very hackneyed court intrigue thing and I'm a guy that needs to see at least some action every now and then, and the GM was going full honorubru Samurai so anything that could possibly considered a slight or breach of etiquette was

Looks more like a problem of communication between you and your DM. For now my contact with L5R has been pretty much all action, investigation and travel. I made a teenager Dragon bushi that never left the mountains until now after all, so my DM knows I would get rekt in a court.

>>51594339
The best part about honor is that you can still play a ronin, a Scorpion, a Spider, A Mantis, even some type of Crabs and give absolutely no fucks about honor. Of course, doing so in a court setting is a highway to death, but in a more action/investigation centered game there are very little repercussions for doing so.

There is also canon characters from high honor clans that acted not very honorable. It's only limiting if your DM is a massive tool who wishes to fuck you for playing a pragmatic character.

>>51593753
No, they give fucks about honor. They *don't* give fucks about honor as interpreted by the Lion and Crane, and they don't prioritize honor over duty.

>>51594438
The whole point of paying attention to the honor system as a GM/player is to add a new layer to social situations and an easy way for actions to have consequences.

>>51583515
>actively misandrist setting where females are not only equal to men but get special schools
>weeb mash of Eastern cultures made by people that don't actually know how those cultures work, including samurai that hate guns

lol

Almost as much of a cuck shit game as Degenisis

>>51591701
>I wouldn't say the Tortoise technique is external. It's not a glory loss that the Tortoise is telling others how shit you are at following the emperor's orders, instead the effect is simply there to tally when a specific edict of the emperor is broken. You broke it, and your honour is adjusted.

The problem is that the honor loss is completely determined by the School Rank of the targeted Tortoise and non-Tortouse can also take the school. You can slander or attack SR1 Tortoise all day with no provocation without an honor hit, but doing the same to a SR 2 is a flat -4 honor, SR 3 -6, SR 4 -8 and SR 5 -10 no matter what your honor is. Slandering a Tortoise makes more sense as a Breach of Etiquette than as a Technique.

>>51595408
Well, a higher ranking Tortoise probably has more important business and, more importantly, more Imperial connections. Insulting some kid fresh out of their gempukku doesn't matter as much as insulting the guy who has probably met the Emperor in person and regularly meets with Otomo and Miya to discuss business.

>>51595396
Long time no see Mr "I hate female bushi." Ran out of dicks to suck at the Fuckotorium again or are you unbanned again?

>>51595408
In the case of the School tech, I'd place it as the Tortoise being able to wheedle and whine to make the target feel worse for his transgression.

>>51594698
I also like that there are mechanical advantages to striving to uphold an often contradictory moral code. You voluntarily restrict your actions to gain a powerful advantage.

>>51595628
>Long time no see Mr "I hate female bushi." Ran out of dicks to suck at the Fuckotorium again or are you unbanned again?

I have literally never posted about L5R on this board and the only L5R character I've played was female.

It's just a shit setting. Sorry you're offended I guess?

>>51595673
Funny how you have never posted about it, but post identically to someone who regularly whines about the same shit.

On the very-off chance that you really aren't that guy, the setting was, and still mostly is, male-dominated, with female bushi being rare and under special oaths, but as irl rolled forward and it became uncool for things to not be equal, it was implied to be more egalitarian by the writers so they didn't get screeched out by the rainbow hair brigade. The previously weird and special all-female schools are still around because they're established parts of the setting. Aside from all that, humans are literally magic in the setting, and there are gods and spirits that are female, some of whom are also warriors. Extending the same ideas to the divine-blooded mortals is not a big stretch for a highly religious society.
It's not historically accurate to grorious nippon because it's not supposed to be, and the only person who ever said it was is a proven idiot who hasn't worked on the game for almost two decades. It's a fantasy setting. Rokugan is not Japan.

>>51595595
Which is justifiable if honor is external.

>>51595628
>In the case of the School tech, I'd place it as the Tortoise being able to wheedle and whine to make the target feel worse for his transgression.

Which shouldn't be as effective against low honor characters like Crab, Scorpion, and Spider.

>>51595983
Low honor characters won't care as much, but doing something the emperor has explicilty forbade does hit kinda hard even if you otherwise don't care about honor.
It's very difficult for this kind of system to work, but ideally, a character's honor will center around where it actually should be within a few sessions.
Remember, the Tortoise rank 2 and the Miya rank 1 are almost identical. If you attack them, you are violating direct Imperial protection, practically a religious mandate.

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>>51595396
>actively misandrist setting where females are not only equal to men but get special schools

Way to miss a fairly important plot point, faggot.

>>51596152
>Remember, the Tortoise rank 2 and the Miya rank 1 are almost identical.
In the sense that they smack the honor of anyone attacking them.
There's a reason why the Kasuga are sometimes called the fifth Imperial family. Also, the Emperor himself is usually the Tortoise Clan Champion with the Kasuga Daimyo acting in his stead, which makes it double hard for anyone to fuck with the clan.

>>51596152
Which are actually covered by Breaches of Etiquette. I'd rather see the Miya and Tortoise techs being effects that double honor loss or increase the severity of the Breach rather than being flat losses based on SR if honor is internal.

It also doesn't make sense when non-Miya and non-Tortoise take the schools.

>>51596431
Very few non-Miya or non-Tortoise characters should be taking those schools anyway, since the Miya don't bother to politic and nobody cares about the Tortoise enough to propose student exchanges.
But that's actually a problem with a lot of courtier schools.
Non-Otomo in that school (Another one that should be more exclusive, since they cconsider themselves above everyone else) can literally yell commands in the name of the Emperor and have people instinctively follow them. Non-Yasuki in that school have access to the family's gift exchange network, ect.

>>51596498
True for most of those, but the Yasuki Rank 3 is merchant connections rather than family network.

I'd probably redesign the Otomo school to be around using status for things so it would be weaker in the hands of clan Samurai.

>>51597367
The sidebar on the previous page makes it very clear that they're Yasuki family connections, not just your own personal merchant connections.

>>51597438
Actually that sidebar is more about how the ability is not for outfitting PCs but smoothing negotiations.

>>51597667
>Any Yasuki courtier's superiors within the family will tend to look askance at an underling who employs the family's connections and resources for such personal reasons - such an abuse of the family's wealth could lead to severe consequences.
Game balance is also an issue, but it is explicitly an in-game restriction by the Yasuki family on the use of their resources. Meaning the technique uses their resources and not the resources of the person actually getting the item. And that makes sense considering all you have to do to get the item is roll Commerce and not actually have any amount of money. The family's collective treasury eats the cost to further the goals of the family, which is what the Technique is for in the first place.
Someone from another clan who took Different School to get into this would basically have to be an honorary Yasuki (They would have practically been raised by them) who works with the Crab more than their own clan for this, or most similar Courtier techniques, to make sense.

>>51597926
That's more the IC justification for why Yasuki should not abuse it to outfit the party not explicitly that the tech must represent the Yasuki Family wealth. It could just as easily been justified around straining your merchant network.

Courtier schools do need to be much better designed in 5e.

>>51598296
IC is still IC, even if they made it that way for game balance reasons.

But yeah, it'd be nice if these techniques had some alternate rules for those who can't reasonably call upon family or clan specific resources or information networks.
Imperial schools get a pass because they're really exclusive and anyone who could get into one is probably half-Imperial or more anyway.

>>51583515
I am always looking for a group to play L5R but I can never find anyone interested. I got all the fourth edition books mint on my shelf never used because apparently I'm the only one that thinks the game is tight as shit. Even on here most threads die sub 100 posts.

>>51598590

I feel you. I feel like it would really benefit if you played it completely straight.

>>51598590
It's hard to find a group and hard to find a group that doesn't fall apart within two sessions.

>>51598884
Such is the life of a /tg/ anon.

>>51598374
A Crane with Yasuki SR 3 could easily be drawing from the Daidoji Trade Council with Treasures of the Carp and an Unicorn from Ide Gaijin connections.

>>51598940
But then you have to ask why they can only draw on those resources in that way when they're trained by a foreign clan.
And you also have to ask how a Dragon or Lion trained by the Yasuki could do it.

>>51598940
>A Crane with Yasuki SR 3 could easily be drawing from the Daidoji Trade Council
Come on, even when the clans aren't openly hostile to each other over the family's history, the Yasuki and the DTC are direct competitors. No fucking way either of them would allow something like that to happen. The Yasuki wouldn't train a Daidoji with those family connections (Or at all, depending on era) and the Daidoji wouldn't willingly send one of their own to train with the Yasuki.

>>51599030
Come on now, this is /tg/ where we had fucktards shitting all over the setting making retarded builds back in 3e because they abused the Multiple Schools advantage and claimed nothing was wrong with it because the rules allowed it.

>>51599278
Speaking of 3e, I only ever see people in these threads talking about playing either 1e or 4e. What's the deal with editions 2 and 3? Were they just outright terrible, or are they merely redundant next to 1 and 4?

>>51599321
2 is terrible all around and was coexistant with the even worse d20 edition
3 is... okay, some people still play it, but it's really easy to bust it open. 3e is the edition for people who like to make really crazy character builds.

4e is the "best" edition, with the least glaring issues. 1e is generally agreed to be the second best for similar reasons.

>>51598974
Simple the technique is about drawing on your clan's merchant network.

>>51599030
Depends on whatever treaty got you the training or favors were called in. Your argument is like saying "No Mirumoto would every train a Kakita as a bushi."

>>51590697
Thinking of it as an anime is better than the reality situation in which it is a bunch of 90s weebs vomiting bad Japanese onto a slurry of Oriental bullshit.

>>51599472
The Mirumoto/Kakita thing is not the same as the Daidoji/Yasuki thing.

The only reason the Trade Council exists at all is in response to the Yasuki leaving, and the economic wars between them have literally caused major economy crashes, along with mysterious fires burning down entire blocks of warehouses and every shop for miles around. They fight each other in an endless oroboros of economic hatefucking. At any point after the first Yasuki war, the Yasuki jew everyone out of their money because the Daidoji would strangle the Crab out of everything they could if they didn't, but the Daidoji only do it because of the Yasuki. No matter how friendly they might be to the rest of the other clan, they don't get along with each other.

At least the Mirumoto and Kakita respect each other as opponents. They disagree on style, not the basic existence of each other.

>>51599321
Pretty much what >>51599376 said.

With some detail...

2e reduced character competency to hilariously bad levels. In 2e you rolled a number of dice equal to your skill and kept equal to your attribute, so if you had a 3 Agility and a 2 Kenjutsu, you'd only roll 2k2. This wouldn't be so bad, but they kept TNs pretty much the same. Then you had the whole dual stat thing going on where half your books were useless and it brought in the retarded d20 crowd.

3e just was gonzo with static bonuses and free raises. Hitting the raises for a bonus attack was pretty trivial once you hit rank 2 and suddenly everyone was slinging all sorts of shit.

As an aside in 3e the most powerful school was the Ronin Duelist, from R2 with a few minutes prep time could get insane amounts of dice and one-shot about anything. It was really hilarious in a court setting as you could easily do all the prep time out of combat and get functionally unlimited dice. They did fix the school in 3e Revised, but it was insane for quite a long time..

>>51598590
>>51598884
L5R seems like a system that's rather vulnerable to a mismatch in expectations among the group, especially since the fluff and the mechanics are so closely entwined. The whole thing looks deceptively straightforward and even somewhat one-note at first: "Magic samurai in idealised bushido-Japan". But even within that, there's a lot of possible variance in tone to be found. Say one player is expecting a highly stylised high-fantasy wuxia-thing, while another looks for a relatively gritty renegade 13 Assassins-style romp. The GM for his part has planned an introspective drama full of family ties and backdoor diplomacy. None of them is necessarily wrong with their interpretation of the setting, but chances are also high that none of them will really walk away from the table feeling satisfied with the game.

It really seems best to first find yourself a semi-regular group, and then see about getting them into L5R specifically. It really helps to be familiar with the players and particularly the GM, knowing what kind of games and characters they run, what tones they enjoy and which they hate.

>>51599621
>>51599376
So...what does 4th ed need fixed?

>>51599866
It gets kinda rocket taggy at the high end, dueling upsets some people (Although I think it's fine as is), the mass battle and crafting rules are kinda shit, Minor Clans and Ronin techniques are shit and shitter compared to Great Clans (Meaning there's a noticeable disparity in power if you run a mixed game, although Techniques aren't the be-all end-all of what a character can do), katanas, tetsubos, bows, and sometimes grappling fists are the only weapons worth using if you care about optimization, and probably a few other things aside. It's really a lot less than previous editions had as problems.

>>51599866
The biggest ones, Remove Spider and give The Taint its teeth back. Though I suppose some schools like the Mirumoto and Bayushi bushi could use a little buffing as well.

>>51599935
Mirumoto is fine, they're only weak when compared to their previous edition versions. Bayushi is a little weak though, but still mostly fine.

>>51599918
>Minor Clans and Ronin techniques are shit and shitter compared to Great Clans

That is intended, it isn't a bug, it is a feature. Personally I'd like to see the Minor Clans go back to having 3 Rank schools like in 1e.

>>51599866
The weapons could do with a major balance pass to offer some actual valuable trade-offs instead of katana-supremacy. Polearms and spears in particular feel rather anemic, both in terms of weapons as well as skill masteries.

The whole roll/keep and attribute system could do with a certain je ne sais quoi to encourage more diversity in character building. There's a pretty significant bias towards the keep side of things. Generally the ideal XP distribution for a given purpose ends up being "trait as high as possible, fill up skill with what's left". Character builds tend to be fairly homogenuous within a party, with not that much in terms of variety.

Do something about Simple-Action-Attacks. Either all bushi should have them by default, or they should be something incredibly rare. As it is right now, every bushi starts out in a race to get them ASAP, because there's such a huge gulf in utility between having them or not.

>>51599973
I agree, but it is an issue when you run mixed games.
Minor clans rocketing to full 5 rank schools is silly, but everything moves ridiculously fast starting with the Scorpion coup. The Yoritomo alone grow 3 entire new schools out of whole cloth (Giving that family an unprecedented total of 4), every new minor clan that springs up gets their full 5 ranks of techniques within the lifetime of the founder, it's just silly. It took the Great clans hundreds of years to reach the full 5 ranks. Most of the Kami didn't even have their own school's rank 4 while living in Ningen-do because it wasn't invented in their lifetime.

BUT the extreme speed of things once the metaplot kicked in makes it inevitable.

>>51599973
Every thread we get this argument.

4e is era agnostic, and that means it has to provide the material necessary for running games in a future in which minor clans are old enough to have developed a full school in the same way it provides info on past eras for play in those periods. If your particular game is set in an era when that material is not necessary, it's up to the gm to restrict it. To suggest that instead it not be printed at all is the epitome of narrow-sighted butthurt.

>>51600065
Not really, I ran a Wasp bushi back in 1e and was fine. I was down a Family trait bonus on top of having a weaker school.

I liked the old Minor Clan fluff where the creation of a Minor Clan was something that happened a scant dozen times in 1000 years, the whole "Minor Clans are made all the time, they just fail and fall to obscurity most of the time," is lame as fuck.

>>51587790
Stay off your phone at the game table, dude.

>>51600106
>>Wanting mechanical differences between Great Clans, Minor Clans, and Ronin is a sign of narrow-minded butthurt.

>>51600157
Nah, having them that rare means that they really aren't threatened all that much, considering that only one or two of the few made were ever really destroyed. Having them be more relatively common (They're still "one every few generations" at best), but obscure means that threats against them actually mean something. There are real stakes in play when the precedent is that they are vulnerable and can be destroyed without consequence.

>>51600065
>It took the Great clans hundreds of years to reach the full 5 ranks.

A fair number of schools are "secretly" 8 ranks. 5 for the basic school and the 3 ranks for the advanced school. Developing a 5 rank school over a hundred years isn't to bad.

>>51600157
That was a stupid Wickism.

I'd probably divide the Clans into 3 groups Great Clans, Major Clans (what all the longstanding powerful Minor clans are) and Minor Clans (which are born and either die or get eaten by more powerful clans) .

>>51599858
You are right there. I've run into this problem before. I wanted to role play out the ass and follow all the lore rules and everything and the guy next to me just wanted to cut things with his sword. He got mad when we went to long without a fight.

>>51600205
It also means that you can insert new ones for niche campaigns without upsetting anything in the greater setting. Not that anyone should care about the metaplot, but it also gives an easy way to completely ignore it all. The Gull Clan doesn't care about your national theological crisis, because they're busy trying to fend off a bandit lord and not starve to death, and the rest of the country doesn't care about them because they're tiny, insignificant, and not contributing to the crisis solution.

>>51600200
It's not hard. If you run in the year 960 or whatever, you say ''these school don't have access to these techniques''. If you run in the far-off year of 1450, you say ''these schools do have access to these techniques''. Because you what? Minor clans are already in the book of water, which means the whole thing is firmly in ''ask your gm'' territory from the word go. And to suggest that the answer you give should be the only answer possible IS butthurt.

>>51595628
>In the case of the School tech, I'd place it as the Tortoise being able to wheedle and whine to make the target feel worse for his transgression.
There's nothing to suggest it requires any direct action on the part of the Tortoise, but were it ruled so, I'd agree.

>>51595983
>Which shouldn't be as effective against low honor characters like Crab, Scorpion, and Spider.
That would make the technique somewhat complicated for 4e, imo.

>>51600205
Minor Clans are under the Emperor's Protection against Great Clan aggression so there have always been consequences to shitting on them. That protection is why the Lion hadn't gotten away with wrecking the Dragonfly for over 400 years.

>>51600412
There are more threats to tiny, isolated groups than bigger groups shitting on them. The Snake and Boar clans should be taken as dire warnings, not flukes. If the setting can fuck entire families who have the full support of an entire Great Clan (Hiruma, Moto, Horiuchi, tons of vassal families), it should be able to fuck smaller families with less support much easier.

>>51599866
Attack damage should be moved entirely to school / martial art.

Weapons should be for maneuvers.

Mundane martial kiho and maneuvers should be combined into a single system of non-standard attacks and moves that each cost xp.

>>51600106
>4e is era agnostic, and that means it has to provide the material necessary for running games in a future in which minor clans are old enough to have developed a full school in the same way it provides info on past eras for play in those periods.
Minor clans got 5 ranks for the same reason Shadowrun got essence free transgender surgery. People complained. Minor clans originally weren't supposed to have the spare time, knowledge base, and resources to develop those last two techniques, no matter how long you wait.

>>51591925
>Rokugan, Not Japan
Is a copout and HAS ALWAYS been a copout

When people cite real world Japan/China, they aren't saying the setting should be exactly like this

They're saying that the way shit is done in Rokugan is STUPID and would never develop as a social system because it's so stupid no society that actually followed it would ever develop past banging rocks together.

It lacks versimilitude simply because the world could not function.

>inb4 thats why Scorpion exist

Scorpion are also a cop-out and you know it.

>>51600785
You forget that Rokugan has literal divine intervention. It's honor system didn't develop, it was introduced whole cloth by literal gods at the dawn of the Empire and has been reinforced by an ever increasing number of ancestors, elemental spirits, and fortunes as time went on.

>>51584146
Easy question. None of the clans are the best because the game and 99% of people who play it are shit teir.

How to fix L5R:
- Chop off entire metaplot
- Remove school ranks
- Remove social combat
- Give everything point buy
- Rebalance weapons so there is a point to choosing each one

>>51601159
>- Remove social combat
I can't get behind that, politi-fuckery is just part of the game. It can be refined so it becomes less "fail at this roll and your character takes an action you didn't tell it to because I said so, also now they have to commit sudoku"

>>51601159
Sure, easily done by using an earlier era as a base and never advancing or looking into the past
Trickier, and I don't see the point
There's barely any to begin with. There are skills for it, but it's mostly roleplay
Why? What you start with is fixed bonuses to stats and skills and an amount of XP that has the same value as any XP you get in play
Yes, although shittier weapons should be shittier except in the hands of a specialist

>>51601203
I'd like to see combat and social combat combined, a la Legends Of The Wulin. In fact, a lot of what I'd love to see come out of a hypothetical fifth edition L5R is a better presented LotW.

-Movement by zones instead of feet.

-Weapons that fall under stylistic choice rather than straight damage.

-Schools being less facelessly monolithic and more open to internal competition.

-Social skills being a viable method of attack in combat for the exceptionally skilled.

>>51601209
>Yes, although shittier weapons should be shittier except in the hands of a specialist
http://johnwickpresents.com/games/game-designs/chess-is-not-an-rpg-the-illusion-of-game-balance/
Much as I don't like Wick or where he goes with ideas; katana, tea cup, thumb - the PC should be able to kick some mook ass or hold their own in an equal fight with any of them.

>>51601535
Sure, but the guy with a tea cup should be at a serious disadvantage to a guy with a sword, unless he's some kind of improvised weapon fighter. Why would anyone bother making swords if they could fight just as well with any old stick off the ground?

>>51599918
>Mass battle kinda shit

It's perfect for what it is, one of the better mass systems for a rpg out there. Because it abstracts the whole combat and focus entirely on the players giving oportunities to them to shine.
You do not need to play a general or build for it to be relevant.

It is not a legit mass combat, more like "opportunities for scenes inside of a mass combat".

I'd rather weapons go the 7th Sea 1e route.

Katana - 3k2
Heavier Weapons - 3k3
Lighter Weapons - 1k2
Bare Handed - 0k1
Bows - 2k2

>>51601159
>Let's remove the metaplot, this one thing that makes it a different card game

Here's why this is a stupid idea in 2 points:
1) Timeline books are a thing. There is barely a metaplot on the core 4e book, only general guidelines, including guidelines to use the Spider rules without an actual Spider clan (hence removing them is just Spider haters hating on something they don't really need to deal with)
2) Even recent metaplot was a mixed bag. Age of Exploration had a pretty damn good boxed set, Destroyer War barely even showed up on the actual RPG game.
"B-but sometimes the metaplot is shitty" ignores all the time where it wasn't.
To your other points
>Remove the things that make the game and setting unique

Just move over to another game please.

>>51583515
Why is Masked Samu-Chad staring at the inexplicably blonde princess' boobs with such intent and contemplation, even though it's clear he's offending her?

>>51601159
>Chop off entire metaplot
Okay, we're starting off strong here
>Everything else
kys

>>51601737
The worst part of the metaplot is that it all happened over the course of a few decades, because the CCG needed recurring characters for later sets, but also needed massive, nationwide problems that you could have a factional card game set around.

>>51601771
>Crane shows Scorpion proper fingering technique.jpg
Alternatively
GENNNNZOOOOOMAAAAAANNNNN

>>51601780
How is that bad by the way it was handled by 4e?
Core is pretty much absent of metaplot, has rules to use pretty much every clan that had anything going on including Snake Clan and even has guidelines to remove more timeline specific factions while keeping the rules there.

Example: Spider rules could easily be used for "Tainted Samurai Faction", from city of lost to Death Moto or lost Hida.

Then they released a bunch of timelines in book format, even with some what if scenarios that allow you to play the setting in many different ways.

What's the issue here?

>>51601569
>Why would anyone bother making swords if they could fight just as well with any old stick off the ground?
Because you have greater ability to enact specific combat options (anything beyond "I attack my target") with weapons that support them, even if you can damage / kill someone equally well with anything.

>>51601996
It's bad in that if you want to actually use any of the metaplot, the next bit is mere months ahead and the previous three or four bits are mere months behind. There's no room for anything else. If you're playing in the Toturi era, several world shattering events just happened and several more are just about to happen. It should be spread out by at least a few more decades, if not a century or two.

>>51602045
Why would you bother equipping your minimally trained ashigaru with spears when you could tell them to grab the nearest stick and be just as effective as basic infantry for an infinitely lower cost?

>>51602083
Again; because spears offer combat options that sticks do not. They may even come with drawbacks that spears do not, like fragility, imbalance, and difficulty piercing armour.

That said; why not arm your levied farmers with sharpened bamboo spears, when specifics dictate that you can't arm them properly?

>>51602221
So you do think that they should be shittier than real weapons. Why even start arguing?

>>51601569
I prefer leaving "can kill someone with anything" to Kobo-ichi-kai and drunken mantis brawlers. It's more special that way.

>>51602255
The well educated cultured poster.
While you guys are arguing about weapons this sly dude is sneaking "Ancestor: Kaimetsu-Uo" and picking "Mantis Brawler" and killing people with a ladder.

>>51602221
To follow that up, you would most likely use a spear in LotW because you can hit someone in adjacent zones (not just your current zone), long reach effectively means advantage in defence and attack unless your opponent also has long reach, and it does give a bonus to your character's damage.

>>51602083
There really should be rules to distinguish the bamboo yari of peasant levees, the metal bladed su yari of the ashigaru/boduka and the Jumonji Yari of the Samurai.

>>51602239
>>51602306
>Improvised Weapons were never intended to be wielded like they are. With Sage permission just about anything can function as an improvised weapon, from belts to tools to tree branches. As long as the object somewhat resembles the weapon you intended to mimic it’s alright. An improvised weapon allows you to use your kung fu style that you normally wouldn’t be able to with your bare hands, although they don’t get to claim the specific properties of the weapon itself.

>>51583705
Suppose I may as well ask, how well does L5R translate for groups that have only played D&D before. Our group is looking for something new to play and japanese fantasy is something we all like.

>>51602369
Peasant levies aren't really a thing in Rokugan. The Crab let their peasants arm up, but mostly with small weapons and a handful of extra spears or tools remounted into polearms. Other than that, it's weekend ashigaru, seriously professional ashigaru and samurai.

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>>51602418

>>51602415
It's a bit of a jump. Social conduct actually matters and wandering adventurers are not really normal. They can exist (Usually as Imperial cartographers), but it kinda misses the point of playing L5R. Dungeon crawling doesn't exist and the few places that might enable it will kill the characters really quickly.

>>51602435
Looks more like an angry mob to me, or maybe a peasant rebellion.
There's no mention of levies in the fluff. Some ashigaru are basically just conscripts, but they get the same armor and weapons as the full time ones.

>>51602437
Do characters murderhobo as much?

>>51602458
They shouldn't, but some do. There are a lot of ways to die in Rokugan, and being ordered to kill yourself for being a shitbag is one of them. Failing to kill yourself after being ordered to do so means you get executed instead.
Everyone uses the same rules, the lethality is fairly high, and grudges don't stop with the dead guy, so getting into a bunch of random fights for petty reasons will not usually end well.

>>51602418
but you get my point that there should be a difference between the spears the three groups use.

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>>51602456
I don't think it matters what you think it looks like. Peasant. Levies.

>It may be noted the Wall’s garrison has a much higher proportion of samurai than other clan armies; although the Crab do use ashigaru in their armies, they try to minimize their reliance on peasant levies at the Wall.

>>51602501
Sounds pretty good for us. We all enjoy social encounters, except for one guy, who always plays some lone killer stereotype, then thinks its good roleplaying when he reveals his dark past to us all at once with no prompting.

>>51602540
That's just the writers being bad at words. What you're describing is what the game calls Ashigaru. Not professional peasant soldiers.
But there are also professional ashigaru, which are more like real ashigaru. Both kinds of peasant soldiers are called ashigaru, but one is more like a levy and the other is professional and full time. And then there's the third kind, the Budoka, who are like professional soldiers, but on a much more personal level, direct servants, bodyguards, and sometimes proteges.

>>51587790
....kenjitsu?

>>51587872
oh god, i dont want a l5r with the gimmick dice system, works fine for star wars but roll and keep is too nice to dump

>>51602582
Yes. Peasant levies are called ashigaru, some survive long enough to be considered elite, while other peasants are trained as more martially inclined servants.

>>51602540
http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Peasant_Levies
Peasant Levies were drawn by most military commanders when an army was understrength and there were no able bodies to recruit. They were the bottom of the military food chain, commonly men ill-or non-skilled in combat, who have been given peasant weapons.

http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Peasant_weapon
Peasant weapons were generally farming tools [1] developed as weapons by monks and taught to the peasantry so they could defend themselves. Samurai did not use these weapons, with two exceptions: magistrates frequently carried the jitte and the Doji family had been known to employ the bo staff.

They don't even get spears. They get farm tools.

>>51602710
Professional ashigaru are full time, not emergency "throw literally anyone we can push to the front at them" troops. They get proper armor and weapons. Peasant levies don't get shit.

>>51587872
And it fucking DESTROYED Warhammer fantasy.
Also it "worked" by creating a very particular experience that has nothing to do with l5r. At all.

>>51589615
wait, they where REALLY gonna do thousand years of darkness in the timeline? wtf...

>>51590097
the storyteller are to blame a little for lack of flexibility. remember when the ratling won a major tournament and their reward was.....the complete destruction of the ratling?

>>51590126
please dont forget that they literally took the empire hostage to become a great clan (make us great clan or we ally with the shadowland)

>>51602749
>Peasant levies don't get shit.
See >>51602540. Hastily trained troops get hastily crafted armour.

>>51603055
See >>51602736
Peasant levies aren't even hastily trained. They're literally whoever the commander could round up and give something resembling a weapon.
>>51602540 is for the second kind of ashigaru. The ones that aren't professional soldiers, but are raised just before a war.

>>51595396
mechanically you are right
battlemaiden and moshi shug dont accept males
the lion's pride lion advanced school is matsu female only (son of the pride is a copout and you fucking know it)

is there any male only schools? i cant think of one

>>51603126
No (Although the Utaku Mounted Infantry is implied to be in practice, since the women go Battlemaiden), and the reason is obvious if you know the game's history.
Back in the day, almost all bushi schools were functionally male only, with bushi-ko (Just called samurai-ko then) being really rare outside of the specific female bushi schools and a handful of metaplot characters. The Moshi are like that because they're hardcore worshipers of a female diety. Female Bushi schools were like that because it was a heavy contrast to the norm. The game got less gender specific to keep up with the times and avoid constant harassment for perceived misogyny, but the female-specific schools stuck around because they're important parts of the setting. Nothing stops someone from rolling it back, the core book of 4e even has a page for how to do it if you want.

How would a l5r miniature wargame go?

>>51603295
There was one at one point, no idea how it played.

But I would imagine that it would be fairly tame. Yes, there are sometimes battlefield shugenja, but for the most part, it's just mundane soldiers hacking at each other. If it were really accurate to how "normal" battles are described, ashigaru would tangle up opposing ashigaru while samurai break their lines to fight each other 1 or 2 v. 1 for glory.
If it was hardcore Rokugan vs outsiders, it'd just be block formations, but a lot more supernatural support would be in play, from monks and shugenja pulling out all the stops to near perfect ninja doing crazy sneaky things.

>>51603240
>Nothing stops someone from rolling it back, the core book of 4e even has a page for how to do it if you want.
Or going whole hog in rolling it forward into real equality.

>>51603295
Clan War was a thing. The last printing was in 2010. I heard it did terrible.

>>51603386
I think a skirmish game would be the best way to do it, Maybe platoon. Got to keep it focused on the heroes, whether they're all heroes or just the leaders. They'll have to have some good bonus effects or synergy with their guys too.

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>>51588740
"...and that's when the crane courtier woke up naked in the horse stables."

>>51583515
Are they adding a bath requirement to the tcg revamp?

>>51606603
Maybe at the lgs' where it's played, hopefully.

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>>51585663
If you ever want to get married, marry a Hida woman. They can cook, clean and wrestle you to the ground.

Story was cool in that players "affected" it, but the game had too steep of a entry requirement for non-US players.

Legit, in Australia it feels like you either play MTG or Konami-Money-Printer, and then you play Netrunner or GoT as a side game; to break that norm it'd have to be a hell of a game.

>>51602828
I'm not talking about the dice system you Spider. I'm talking about how they managed to sell the same system thrice (EotE, AoR, FaD) by having slightly different options in each.

>>51606883
That said,
>implying they won't just rename the Force die to Honor and keep everything else the same

>>51606806
There are/were groups; you just have to look around and ask people. Probably more so once the LCG comes out.

Brisbane: Annerley Ace Comics
Melbourne: nfi, but a guy who ran a store that sold l5r was at a few interstate tournaments and was friendly.
Sydney: Burwood Good Games? (all I remember is Games Paradise in the city)

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>>51606782
That seems like a singularly awkward outfit to go wrestling in.

>>51607700
The elbow digging into his back can't be much fun either.

>>51603295
There was one: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13584/clan-war

And there is a skirmish game with simmilar setting: http://www.bushido-thegame.com/
It has pretty good rules and it's quite entertaining.

>>51583515
We usually even have a fucking general running, so go figure

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>>51587790
>Intelligence 4
>Only Int Skill is Medicine

What the ever-living fuck is this?

>>51609600
Probs Sage and/or Crafty.

>>51609672
The character is a Shosuro Infiltrator, so Sage would be still WTF. Crafty is useless for Int 4 because no Low Skill uses Int.

My bet would be a poisoner build, but I can't see Craft: Poison.

>>51609916
>no Low Skill uses Int
Craft: Poison, Lore: Anatomy, etc.

>>51609916
Pseudo-skills like Sage, Crafty, and Soul of Artisan tend to work better on characters who "shouldn't" normally have the skills they add. An infiltrator with Crafty has pretty much wasted points, since they will have most, if not all, of the relevant skills at 2 or higher very soon after the game starts.
Crab Hands is an exception, in that it is actually better for most bushi to take it.

>>51610366
Well, a Scorpion Ninja would only be using a single point for the safety net of always counting as Skilled, which is more important than counting as having at least 1 rank in the skill, so it's not that bad.

The differences between Skilled and Unskilled rolls are pretty big. Unskilled rolls can't explode, and can't have raises called for them, which can be crippling even if you're rolling 4k4.

>>51603386
It obviously should be like in 40k where there's different nations but the protagonist one gets half of the playable armies while for the rest of the setting it's one for each.

>>51611835
More like seven ninths of the playable armies.
>Crab
>Crane
>Lion
>Phoenix
>Scorpion
>Dragon
>Mantis
>Unicorn
>Moto inexplicably by themselves
>Shadowlands
>Spider (Like shadowlands, but less so)
>Minor Clans
>Monkey inexplicably by themselves
>Imperial Legions
>Ronin and Rokugani bandits together
>Yobanjin
>Maranae and Thrane together
>Yodotai

>>51611973
You forgot...

>Brotherhood of Shinsei (like the Sisters of Battle never gets a codex update)
>Naga (Like the Tau a shooty outsider army)
>Nezumi (Orks that repeat-repeat everything)

>>51612463
All three of those will throw in with the samurai when it comes down to it.
So 17/21 factions are Rokugani, 4/21 aren't.

>>51612463
I think the Imperial Legions are the ones who never get a codex update. Look at how they're handled in the RPG. "They exist" is about the most you ever hear of them, and even direct Imperial military actions tend to use the Lion clan or a mix of different clans, rather than the IL. Defensive actions are also usually Lion, but at least mention the Seppun.

>>51583515

I liked the setting overall. It is really neat when you can get the players to think about more than just themselves, but their clans, families, diplomatic relations, etc.

But the setting has a truckload of flaws that wax and wane in severity. The Emperor as a nearly divine being in social status is fine, but in physical prowess is silly.

I also scowl at the Good Undead and Spider clan edgelord garbage. There was a time where being even a little tainted made you an outcast and that is probably the high point in the setting.

>>51612878
It's not just the emperor. The direct ruling lines from every kami has characters that rocket upwards in Insight Ranks as soon as they become adults. That's just how the setting works. They usually don't have any overt signs of divinity, but have the potential to really be the most competent person in the room. Divine right to rule applies in more than one way for them.
Also, the emperor usually isn't actually that great at combat. The few times an emperor has actually gotten into a fight, he's had the best equipment in the world. Their ancestral sword is literally guaranteed to one-shot-kill anyone they attack with it, and their armor and anything else they might wear is similarly magical. Any shmuck could win a fight with that kind of advantage.

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>>51612878
>The Emperor as a nearly divine being in social status is fine, but in physical prowess is silly.

The Emperor is actually full mortal physically. He/she might have a head start, but he/she is just an average samurai dude otherwise. The Emperor is not a true god/demigod who can beat everyone into shit without breaking a sweat.

Tho, it would have been quite funny if it had been the case:
>Be Shoju, do your coup
>Face the Emperor in his throne room
>He promptly throws you out of the window
Welp.

>>51588837

This link is expired, anyone got another?

>>51614748
https://discord.gg/vutcC

Ok I want to give my PC a blue and white striped hakama.

So /l5r/ weebos, whats the rule on striped hakama? Both in L5R lore and Japanese culture/history.

Wikipedia says, "While striped hakama are usually worn with formal kimono, stripes in colours other than black, grey and white may be worn with less formal wear."

So is a white and light blue striped hakama formal or not?

>>51614909
It can probably be both, depending on what else you wear with it. Unless you're heading into court, it won't really matter.

>>51614956
>Unless you're heading into court
Oh I might have to anon

>depending on what else you wear with it
A kimono and a vest

>>51615155
Depends on how formal the kimono and vest are. How many layers you got? Less than three, probably switch it out or stack on some more. Patterns? Fancy on the inside, modest on the outside is classic. Colors? Coordinate that shit. Blue and white pants means blue, green, grey, and other cool colors. Formal means big ol' mons for your family, clan and school have to be prominent on that vest, one huge one on your back, two smaller ones on your upper chest. Which is placed where sends a message to everyone who can see you. One of them goes over your heart, but another one is huge, and the third is just kinda there, so make that choice count.

It's generally best to have a definitive formal outfit when heading into court. Don't just hope that what you're wearing is good enough.

>>51606943
I will cry if they do this and become a grognard of an older edition. THE CYCLE PERSISTS.

>>51607700
Ninjas can't wrestle you if you dress like a whore

>>51615247
Actually, scratch that, the third one is on your combat hand side, so it's important too. Clan on the back (So it's prominent and clearly important), Family on the left (So it's near your heart), school on the right (So it's near your main sword hand to indicate its influence on how you fight and interact) is a good way to set it up if you can't think of a good reason to make it different.

>>51615247
>Blue and white pants means blue, green, grey, and other cool colors.
Seems like I'm good there. Originally planned for sea green kimono with a dark green vest. The vest has the large mon on its back.

Would a red obi be good addition?

>>51614071
>The Emperor is not a true god/demigod who can beat everyone into shit without breaking a sweat.
While that's certainly true by Hantei 38th, earlier emperors weren't so mundane, and the four winds had some pretty kick ass unique techniques ... which they never passed on to anyone or wrote down before dying without children. (probably)

>>51615247
>and the third is just kinda there
Over your sword arm, you nong.

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They're not the best rules, but they're as close as we have to official rules for the Imperial Archive minor clans.

>>51616164
Nice

>>51614793
>>51588837
Wait, there's a discord now? Shit, sign me up. Old link expired, could someone drop a new one please?

>>51621768
https://discord.gg/63UCX

>>51611973
If a skirmish game, Crab are the tanks who deal damage but don't have the duel abilities, Lion shit bonuses, Crane duel, Scorpion debuff, Dragon monk/duel, Mantis storm magic/pirate, and Unicorn do mounted.

>>51583515
Here's a permanent link to the new Discord:

https://discord.gg/87ZQa


Features a bot,
Looking for group section,
Lots of resources,
And morrreeee!

>>51583515
>>51585262
Has anyone here ever been in/ran a game where pcs were spider clan?
I can see how you could have a whole party of spider clan but any mixed group seems like it would be a clusterfuck not to mention the type of people atrracted to the edgy "ebil" clan probably wouldnt last long in L5R

>>51627888
Almost. Despite a clear "no taint, no evil" starting point, players went full gerbil before chargen options were even finalised, and the game was nixed pretty quick.