/btg/ Battletech General!

Post Civil War era, which Successor State military is in the best of shape just prior to the Jihad?

Whose is in the worst?

As I understood it for best shape it'd be:

Free Worlds League>Draconis Combine>Capellan Confederation>Federated Suns and Lyran Alliance.

Any thoughts?

>>51566542

The FedSuns is by far the most skilled and best-equipped.

FWL is the largest but isn't anywhere near as well-equipped or skilled as the Suns.

Dracs got pretty badly fucked up, their forces aren't overly well-equipped, and they performed badly against both the Bears and Suns.

Lyrans and Capellans are roughly equal. Cappies have more skill, Lyrans have better upgrade rates. Both are about the same size.

>>51566318
They've been used several times to block assassination attempts by getting in the way of bullets.

But you're right, it wasn't a 1S, it was a modified 1S. Though this is from battletechnology and isn't fully canon anymore. But the throne rooms were guarded by the -1RG, which was a -1S that replaced the LRM5 with 4 machineguns and ammo.

>>51566601
Wasn't the fedsuns military pretty royally fucked by the civil war? The civil war ended like, 6 months before the jihad.

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Can someone tell me if my attempt at a 55-ton trooper is okay?

>>51566631

Magic warehouses, anon.

The Dracs are marginally larger than the Suns, but the Suns shit on everyone for skill, gear, and reliability of units in FM: U.

>>51566608

BattleTechnology isn't canon any more and we have other sources saying they were -1Ns in canon.

It may or may not make sense to have those in a throne room but this is BT, so sense is highly optional.

>>51566664

It's not bad but prepare your anus for assault by anons who hate the idea of XL engines on trooper 'Mechs.

>>51566664
A medium with an XL needs to be a damn sight faster than 5/8/5.

Like, you've made a falconer with less guns.

>>51566706
>It's not bad but prepare your anus for assault by anons who hate the idea of XL engines on trooper 'Mechs.
Gotcha. What would I call this type of mech?

>>51566711
>A medium with an XL needs to be a damn sight faster than 5/8/5.
>
>Like, you've made a falconer with less guns.
I kind of tried to make a future variant of the original machine. I was going for something that could hit like a Hunchback at double the range and have the heat sinks to add that LRM and deal some anti infantry damage.

>>51566601
Funny thing is fluff wise the FWLM was supposed to be better equipped, but lol magic warehouses.

>>51566687

>The Dracs are marginally larger than the Suns

I think one of the passages in a manual mentioned the Suns had the largest army in the Sphere when discussing battle armor.

>>51566395
>6 wolvie-ms
I love them too, anon, but there are other 5/8/5s available to the FWL. Try trenchbuckets or griffins?

>>51566875

Fluff-wise the FWL was actually going slow on upgrades because they figured they might as well jew everyone else for obscene cash with exports and upgrade at a more modest rate since they weren't really expecting to fight anyone.

Applying any level of logic you would expect the Suns to not be so well off after the Civil War, but it's the Suns, so no matter what else is going on they always have to be better than everyone else.

>>51566911
Most trebs don't jump, only the 5J does and it loses half its armament to do it

The starslayer 2C is pretty rare in 3025 but it's fantastic. The Cronus is another solid choice.

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What's your favorite House Davion regiment?

>>51566986
Did any of them defect to the lyrans? If so then that one

>>51567011
Chisholm's Raiders did and died for it.

>>51566986
I barely have a favorite faction, anon.

>>51567176
What do you do, just play the game and enjoy it?

>>51567011

I think the 26th Lyran Guards were an RCT lead by a "Colonel Green Davion" that chose to side with the Lyran Alliance, despite his clear relation to the Davion ruling family.

>>51567191
Yes. For years I just looked at the TRO's mech pictures without even reading them (I'm not an English speaker and had barely no material in my language). I play Battletech because I really like the giant robots

>>51567260
Jinders Green-Davion. The "clear" relationship could be several generations removed, or not at all. In either case, he'd still be one man in an RCT of thousands of Lyrans.

>>51567260

Well, in the 40s there was a Hitler in the US navy.

>>51566687
>the Suns shit on everyone for skill, gear, and reliability of units in FM: U.

Not just there either. They're always in the top-tier, even if not the absolute top. Best RATs, best faction mechs too. My mind boggles at those entitled Feddie players who are forever buttblasted because they think the Suns have had it so bad since the 4SSW.

>>51566986

Davion Assault Guards. Assaultweight badasses who have loads of cool fights, but aren't showboaters like certain merc regiments. They wear sensible camo in the field too, even if half the players insist on parade schemes (fucking majorettes...).

I was also fond of the 5th FedCom RCT. Nuked their way out of danger in the FCCW, but then later on in the Jihad nuked their way INTO danger by nuking through the New Avalon WoB naval blockade because of patriotic loyalty.

>>51567687
>Best RATs, best faction mechs too.
That's the Lyrans.

>>51567687
We haven't been allowed to win a war since the 4th. Look at the Sarna March invasion and tell us that was fair.

>>51566986
I think it's funny how the Suns was probably meant to be some Anglo-French in Space state and ended up being Space America instead.

When exactly did Grasshoppers start being constructed again?

>>51567831

Won the War of 3039 by BTFOing the Dracs, won the FedCom Civil War (incidentally BTFOing the Dracs again).

>>51567815

Lyrans only got the good stuff so they could hand it to the Suns. Have a look at the RATs in FM: U some time, the difference between the Suns and everyone else is pretty stark.

Like, not even joking the Suns needs to be rolling on D and F tables to get a concentration of tech, mass, and time of manufacture to what others are getting on their A-grade tables.

FM: U cops a lot of flak, and rightfully so.

>>51567846

I thought they were Anglo, French and American?

>>51567862

Possibly as late as the 3060s for the Dracs, since that's the first time LexaTech gets mentioned as building anything new.

No idea for the Suns plant.

>>51567919
Even their Anglo and Franco aspects are Americanised. Like "leftenant" being actually spelled that way for the rank. It's amusing. Nothing against Americans, of course.

>>51567912
To be honest I forget about the festival that is FM:U.

What about earlier/later RATs?

>>51568068

Same problem. Earlier FMs were written with a much more modest upgrade program in mind and the later ones also rip out the Unseen and put in a lot more new designs and SLDF ones. The FWL and Drac RATs suffer badly from codex creep, the Capellans and Suns get really good RATs. The others are in the middle.

>>51568150
>The others are in the middle.
Except FM:P, which suffers HIDEOUSLY from "unseen never happened" syndrome

>>51568038
>leftenant
>Americanized
Run that by me one more time, limey

>>51568357

It's spelled as lieutenant and pronounced leftenant.

The Americanisation is that they then go and write it as leftenant.

>>51568467
How is that Americanization?

It's pronounced "loo-tenant" in civilized places like America. Spelling and pronouncing it "lef-tenant" would be Anglicization.

>>51568493

Americanisation of words involves changing them so they are spelled phonetically according to what some guy thought was good a long time ago.

Thus, aluminum, realize, and yes, leftenant.

What is the name of the source book that taught you how to paint minis and had a ton of sexy mini eyeporn?

>>51568561

Total Warfare has a bit in it. I think the old miniatures rules book probably would too.

>>51568527
Americanize
[uh-mer-i-kuh-nahyz]
verb (used with or without object), Americanized, Americanizing.
1. to make or become American in character; assimilate to the customs and institutions of the U.S.

"Leftenant" is the British pronunciation; "lieutenant" is the American. Therefore, spelling it "leftenant" is Anglicization because it is changing the spelling of the word lieutenant to conform to the British pronunciation.

>>51568598
>arguing semantics about a game made by Americans
I'd make an "American education" joke but this stuff writes itself.

>>51568598
>>51568527
>>51568493
>>51568467
>>51568357

in the far future of the fourth millennium, there is only autism

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>>51568598
>"Leftenant" is the British pronunciation
Brit here.

>>51568038
In my time in service I met a fair number of Yanks who honestly thought we spelled the rank lieutenant as the Davions do.

Stranger than fiction, eh?

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>>51568669
>>51568698
>>51568703
If you thought you could just be wrong on the internet and not have someone call you out, you were sadly mistaken.

>>51568708
What is he wrong about?

>>51568719
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/lieutenant
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/lieutenant

>>51568749

http://grammarist.com/spelling/lieutenant/

>while in the United Kingdom and other countries of the British Commonwealth the preferred pronunciation is “leftenant.”
>the British Commonwealth
>leftenant
>the British Commonwealth

>The “American” pronunciation is, however, becoming commonplace in countries like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and even the U.K., albeit mostly outside official usage.

And this is why the battletech community is awful

>>51568842

This is <a reason> why the battletech community is awful.

>>51568749
That doesn't prove his point wrong though. You don't have to agree with him, but you don't have a real argument.

>>51568842
>this is why
You didn't specify anything. So... everything?

>>51566601
The FWL should be one of the best equipped. The Feds might have a slight edge, but the FWL refit a huge number of its machines.

>>51569177
FWL is shit though

>>51569226
Muninn, please post purple burd image macros at this man

>>51569177

See >>51566928.

The AFFS' upgrade rate is complete and utter bullshit but the FWL wasn't modernising as fast as might have been expected either.

>>51569395

>FWL wasn't modernising as fast as might have been expected either.

Isn't that because their spending went more into their navy, armor, battle armor and aerospace forces than their mech forces?

>>51569415

No, as I said before they decided to make mad bank off exporting upgrade kits and so weren't upgrading as rapidly as other factions, reasoning that they could profit in the short term and plow all that cash into things like their navy then use their beefed up industry and economy to flash-upgrade as he arms deal started to wind down.

But both the FWL and DC FMs were written with assumptions of 30-50% upgrades for a lot of units, trending up to 70% or more for the very best-supplied. The Lyran and Suns ones are written later and with a very different set of assumptions.

>>51569415
>navy

Fat lot of good that did them

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The paint scheme I'm doing my army up as. They're a group I like to call the Lyran Irregulars.

Potatocam quality thanks to my brother's cellphone. Had to use it because said brother broke my digital camera.

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Oooooh taste it CA

>>51570026
Should look pretty good when inked and finished. I like the "one limb is a different color" paint scheme theme, so naturally I like this. Yellow cockpit is a bit odd; are you doing that thing where you basecoat yellow then do black over the top to make it look internally lit/one-way glass-like?

Interested in the WoB fighting the Ghost Bears. Are there any scenarios of that?

>>51570356

Don't know if there's any pre-written but the Bears went nuts like half-way through the Jihad. There might be a bit in JHS 3072 but Blake Documents, '76 on and especially the attack on Terra featured them pretty heavily.

A lot of those were naval battles, especially at Terra.

>>51570353
Going to use white and make it look like yellow glass. Everyone else in my group uses red for the windows and I wanted to be different.

>>51570417
Gotcha. I look forward to seeing it done. I have a lot of painting projects to do myself but it's too cold to prime right now where I am.

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>>51570286
I'll see your bet, and raise.

>>51570509
I did that on a snow day. lol

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>>51570531
Not only that, I'll triple down. Pay close attention to the ER PPC.

Battle report!
Broke out the 'ol introbox and showed some newbies what the shit this Battletech thing was.

Side 1: Whitworth, Cicada (that variant with a ppc), Jenner, Hunchback, Panther
Side 2: Awesome, Atlas

Map was the fortress that came with the spaceport mapset.

Battle got started slowly, with no shooting turn 1.
Things kicked off fast turn 2, with the hunchie and atlas both nailing each other with AC20s. Panther went all flanky, awesome stood on a roof (not worth tracking structures with newbies) and the other side 1 mechs held back and sniped.
The jenner then boldly charged in and got the atlas from behind, putting the atlas squarely in the sights of four of side 1's mechs. It, being an atlas, just blew off the hunchie's RT while giving no fucks. Meanwhile the panther and awesome traded misses.
Then the panther's pilot fucked up his movement, found himself at short range with an awesome, and was promptly cored out. The atlas chased down the hunchback, but lost an arm.
The atlas fucked up the cicada with a pair of engine crits, but then turned around to chase the jenner and got de-assed. A gyro crit saw it falling down, and a botched attempt to stand removed the gyro while it was in no position to shoot anything. Newbies were at this point introduced to the concept of an "initiative sink".
Awesome proceeded to stand on a rooftop playing turrettech with the remaining side 1 mechs, losing both arms in the process, then suddenly headshotted the whitworth and kicked the jenner's everything off on the same turn.
The overheating cicada tried valiently, but not much you can do when your only weapon worth shit puts you at +7 heat for the turn and your armor is gone.

Overall, the battle was marked by newbie "naw let's not move our lights" thinking and a disappointing lack of ammo explosions.

The awesome player wound up taking home his record sheet, and I'm damn sure I'll be seeing him back.

>>51571330

Speed is life.

>>51571469
A couple fluke hits when they followed my "move even if you'd take to-hit penalties" advice got them of the opinion that I wasn't so hot, then they got smoked.

>>51567862
Lexatech started production back up in 3064.
WoB had Bryant up and running again in 3058 but only for themselves.
Suns plant randomly shows up in HB:HD like a lot of factories sprout up out of nowhere in the handbook series. So I'd just date it to the book date, which is October 3067.

>>51572785
Wait, just saw that's the NAIS intro letter, the actual book date is November, 3067.

>>51572785
>>51572795

Also the HB:HD specifies that the Grasshopper is licensed when we know the Dracs were the first to license it in 3061, so it has to postedate that.

>>51571469
>Overall, the battle was marked by newbie "naw let's not move our lights" thinking and a disappointing lack of ammo explosions.
>Speed is life.

I'll be honest, I've been playing this game for over a decade and I still have a very hard time telling whether or not moving is good or bad.

>>51573016

Moving is worth it if:

-You generate at least as much of a TMM than AMM. So you need to Walk 3+ hexes, Run 5+ hexes, and Jump 5+ hexes (preferably at least one more than each of those to gain at least another +1 TMM- for example, a Fire Moth that Walks 10 hexes in a straight line has a +1 to-hit modifier but opponents suffer a +4), OR
-Moving closer gains you a net to-hit bonus by reducing range, OR
-Moving backwards gains you a net to-hit bonus by increasing range, OR
-You expect to be in a superior firing position in the following turn(s).

The last is the most difficult to gauge.

Of course you can always just Gausswall in woods and give zero fucks.

>>51573016
>I still have a very hard time telling whether or not moving is good or bad.

Always worth it to keep your range bands ideal, get an advantageous position, or take cover. Running three hexes across open terrain into heavy woods is still a net gain TMM.

>>51570356
The battle for Dieron, the second biggest battle of the war was the Bears vs the Wobbies.

The robes managed to kill a Leviathan II there at the expense of six warships. Then they killed a second one at Terra. That made the Bears so angry they wrecked the O'neil Yards around Terra itself with their last one. Bunch of clanner faggots.

/btg/'s beloved 3rd WoBM was also at both of those.

Scenarios should be in the Hotspots and Turning Point books. There's a Turning Point for Dieron I know.

Flipping through TP:Dieron is fun

>“By order of the Khan, you will stand down.”
>“By the order of the Kanrei, you can stick that PPC up your furry butt. You may NOT touch my prisoners, much less exterminate them! Are you mad?”
>“You are in violation of the agreement made between our leaders! We have every right to treat the surat Blakists as we see fit!”
>“It doesn’t mean exterminating POWs that are in DCMS custody!”
>“There is no provision regarding custody matters. Every Blakist on this hellhole is subject to Dominion justice. There is no compromise.”
>“Yes there is. It’s at the end of my Gauss rifle barrel. Come get some, you thick-headed bastard of Kerensky.”
>“Bargained poorly but done. Rho Galaxy, attack!”

Fucking bears.

>>51570356
>tfw your two favorite factions fight each other

>>51573352
That's actually pretty badass.

>>51573069

One more situation:

-If you're playing in a scenario which requires you to move.

Pretty much every good group I've seen regularly plays scenarios which force you to move to accomplish your scenario objectives, and if you don't complete the objectives in the time alloted, even if you wipe the field of the enemy, you still lose. Movement can be helpful in such a case.

>>51573485

Found the furry sympathizer.

>>51573300
What is the 3rd WobM and why does /btg/ love it?

>>51573352
Sorry,this is the same DCMS with a standing order for hundreds of years to execute every prisoner?

>>51573599
This was the DCMS run by the head of the Black Dragons.

Kuritans took prisoners though. They even had some worlds full of giant prison camps and slave centers. Their policy is "kill them if they have no value to the Dragon"

In this case, they were probably keeping them as hostages to help crack Fortress Dieron..

>>51573900
Probably not, but were the people of Dieron pro-WoB to any major degree?

I recall some worlds were surprisingly pro-WoB and had to be purged.

>>51573589
Boys from the moderate Blakist faction that helped take Terra back in 3058, then fought all over the Inner Sphere in the Jihad, survived the two most brutal battles in the entire war and escaped into the void at the end of it.

You've seen the old "Pure Thoughts and Actions" picture occasionally.

>>51573933
>were the people of Dieron pro-WoB to any major degree?

No. They were actually old school Star League, the jewel of the old Lone Star district preserved through the ages. They had massive influence in the Combine and were left to their own devices about as much as the Azami. The DDG is where all the old samurai cowboy jokes come from.

So unlike many of the core worlds who got bombed into the dirt, Dieron flourished in the Succession Wars under the Dracs. Until the Bears bombed it into the dirt anyway and made it just another nowhere core world like Caph or New Earth by the Dark Age.

If NEA or one of our aero experts is here, I'd like input on organizing a 2nd Line and Solahma Aerospace Binary each. I got more SLDF fighters than omnis, so tried to decide what point of the former would complete each omni star.

What I have is what I rolled:

Second line:
>Alpha - 2 Kirghiz-A, 2 Sulla-C, 2 Avar Prime, 2 Batu Prime, 2 THK-63 Tomahawk
>Bravo - 2 Jagatai A, 2 Sulla Prime, 2 Turk Prime, 2 Sulla Prime, 2 IRN-SD1 Ironsides

Solahma:
>Alpha - 2 ZRO-114 Zero, 2 TRN-3T Trident, 2 AHB-443 Ahab, 2 HMR-HD Hammerhead, 2 HCT-213B Hellcat II
>Bravo - 2 GTH-500 Gotha, 2 RGU-133E Rogue, 2 SPD-502 Spad, 2 RPR-100 Rapier, 2 SWF-606 Swift


Thanks.

>>51573986
>The DDG is where all the old samurai cowboy jokes come from

And again, the title song of Rising Zan: Samurai Gunman starts to play in my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A1BptKRZpc

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now there are three(3) Locust body styles to choose from.

>>51568812
RCAF fag here. Canadians certainly use the British "leftenant" and not the Yankee pronounciation

>>51573986
>Dieron flourished in the Succession Wars under the Dracs
Lol somehow that surprises me

>>51570531
>3/5/5 AIV platform
why
>sold as parts to reduce cost
REEEEEEEEEE CHEATING BASTARDS GET OUT

>>51570602
>capped ERPPC and 15 SHS
[confusion]
>1/2/3JB movement profile
[laughing]

I'm more confused as to why anyone would use mechanical jump boosters ever. They're just bad at everything

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>>51572785
Source on WoB's Bryant production? I see it mentioned in TRO3050U but it doesn't give a date.

Also, TRO Prototypes has (extremely limited) Grasshopper-7X production by special request at Arc-Royal during the Jihad, and eventual full production of the -7P afterwards. MUL gives the intro dates as 3075 and 3081 for those two.

>>51575930
>1/2/3JB movement profile
Whatever editor he used didn't take the hardened armor into account. It's actually 1/1/3JB, with the possibility of 2/2/3JB if the pilot expertly manages the heat sinks to keep the TSM active at the sweet spot.
I love that 40 point kicks are listed as a huge deal for this 'mech, as though it will ever get close enough to anything that isn't a fixed structure to kick it.

>>51577056
Pretty sure it's mentioned in Double Blind by the Wobbies when the Toyamas are talking about the carrots they're using to get planets to join the Protectorate. Not the grasshopper specifically but more along the lines of "restoring manufacturing" to Bryant. Should be somewhere around the New Earth scene I think. It's been a few years since I've read it.

>>51577056
Different mech line but it was mentioned the robes also rebuilt a factory on Caph. What it built wasn't specified as far as I found out, but I thought it would have been cool if they did the Spartan.

>>51577370
It was the Caph Skobel plant so whatever they used to make, probably. Martinson was the one that made the Spartan.

>>51576370
Prior to IJJs they were the only way to get a jump greater than your walk speed.

While I acknowledge it's meant to be a piece of shit, what would you think of an Assassin variant which used, instead of that schizophrenic loadout, ML+Twin SRM4 or Twin LRM5?

>>51577752
notAssassin/10

Assassin's are meant to be shit-tier instead of functional and good, like your loadouts would make it.

After the Refusal War, could the combined FedCom and FFR forces have been enough to push what was left of Clan Wolf and Clan Jade Falcon out of the their occupation zones if Operation Gurerro hadn't struck?

>>51578096
>FRR
>Having forces

I think you mean the Comguard since, you know, that was 90% of the forces in the Free Telephone Republic.

Does anyone have any tips for running AToW?

>>51578381
Have the latest (second) printing. Understand that combat is very lethal when planning encounters for your players.

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So gentlemen of /btg/, whether you are from the US or not, shall we celebrate the Super Bowl by telling of the football story in BT where clan elementals faced off against a regular football team? I don't have the info off hand, so I was wondering if someone had it.

>>51579376
>you will never be an Elemental of Clan Superb Owl
why live

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>>51579376
The 84-3 rout of the Sheliak football league all stars? I wonder if the Ghost Bears took the kicker of that field goal as bondsman.

>>51573069
Moving is also worth it if your resultant TMM would make a less squishy mech a more desirable target.

>>51579883
Huh. You would think with a team named the Bears they would have been on the losing end with a 84-3 loss. Go figure. I'm from the Chicago-land area.
Thanks though. Today is a special day.

>>51573900

Black Dragons would be even more in the "kill POWs" camp.

Benny boy didn't think things through when he wrote the fluff that says Dracs execute all their POWs all the time.

>>51578096

Wolves, possibly. The Thurston'ed Falcons recovered overnight though.

>>51575407

There's a bunch of planets in the Chaos March SB that magically weren't subjected to Capellan tyranny and were left largely to self-rule too. Which makes the area randomly developing a hate-on for everyone else come the Jihad even weirder, because they establish that there was no reason to.

>>51573995

Re-organise them by speed as much as possible since Squadrons are limited in speed by their slowest elements. There's not much else that can be done with RAT-generated forces.

>>51580533
The ones that got destroyed that hated everyone. It's the ones that weren't who got along pretty okay.

The really old 3025 material portrays the wrecked places as backwaters on par with the Outback or the Bad News side of the Pesht MD. The old 3050's material post-3056 Lyran succession talks about the resentment they feel as well, especially being abandoned and forced to make their own way. It's the old "They took everything from us and hung us out to dry."

So their hate-on is perfectly sensible, especially when the Wobbies came along and rebuilt so many of them back to the level of their glory days just for the Stoners to come smash it all again. Even the Senate Rebellion stuff in the DA is somewhat an extension of this sort of thinking, and it was written years before the Jihad stuff.

>>51577489
From what I saw it was the Martinson plant. Don't have the source handy atm

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Shit-tier/10

>>51579286

Is there a .pdf of the second printing?

>>51581488
I like it :(

>>51577752
Twin SRM-4 and ML would turn it into a Commando with 2 fewer tubes and better movement. Twin LRM-5 and ML turns it into a faster Valkyrie. Either way, not horribly bad, but it's been done already on a smaller, cheaper chassis.

Anyone have any 3025 bug refits that are actually interesting? I'm starting a mercenary game where I'm being thrown two companies of whatever bugs I want and dumped in the periphery to get going from there.

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>>51581788
It's OK. Just a joke from upthread.
I do like Alex's new art for it.
Reworking old pixel art is cathartic.
>>51582141
>3025
>interesting
Memes aside, 3025 mech's don't get interesting till 35+ tons. Unless you just want crit pack MG ammo and sprint around corners in urban maps.

>>51582141
The LCT-1E is fantastic imo

>>51582353
It gets even more fantastic if you drop the 2 SL and remount the CT ML.

>>51582141
Does a cicada count as a bug

Anyway, the only ones to consider in 3025 are the LCT-1E, LCT-1S, WSP-1L, and maybe the STG-3G

Maybe throw in an LCT-1M for laughs

>>51582398
Oh, and I'd probably take a few WSP-1Ds for clearing out infantry.

>>51582302
>3025 mech's don't get interesting till 35+ tons.

You, sir, have clearly never seen a Mirage. It's the ultra-limited edition variant of the Firestarter, and it's very nasty for a 3025 light.

>>51581577
Yeah, if you bought the first one you got auto-upgraded for free to the second.

>>51582141
Grounding a Wasp and stripping out the weapons for an LL plus a little armor is a decent bughunter in 3025. Pretty much the same idea as the later LPPC Stinger. You could also sorta replicate the Phoenix Stinger with PP Rockets.

If you mean canon, then the Rambo Stinger is never a bad refit to take and not faction locked. Locust 1E is nice too.

>>51582445
Not him but the Firestarter is 35 tons bro

>>51582445
And it's also 35 tons, so

The fire javelin is what you're looking for. That thing is a beast.

>>51582445
Yes, and it's 35 tons.

>>51582445
>>51582473

As long as we're listing ML boat refits, don't forget the Fire Vulcan and the Discoback.

>>51582473
Spiders are good too

>>51582487
Those are way more than 35 tons.

>>51582498
>Those are way more than 35 tons.
I didn't say anything about weight. I just felt like listing all of them for anybody who didn't know. You'd be surprised at the number of people who only know one or two of them.

>>51582544
There are people who don't know about the ML spam Hunchback? Where, Outer Mongolia?

>>51582141
20 ton bugs are utterly useless

Light mechs in general should be scrapped since vehicles can do their jobs better and cheaper

>>51582714
And yet, in 3025 half the mechs that existed were 20 ton bugs...

>>51582714
fuckmechsanon is back, everyone. We best just pack it in and go home, mechs are unrealistic and pointless.

>>51582714
Quickcell has deposited one cbill into your account.

>>51582806
Shit writing

>>51582806
And it's the worst era, grog. What's your argument?

>>51582892
... Anon, welcome to BattleTech. Since the first book published, every single paragraph is shit writing. What made you single out THIS particular pile of crap?

>>51582141
Well, here are a bunch from old campaigns, mostly periphery/merc in origin
>LCT-1KT: three MLs, very simple. Drac and periphery variant, also very common among mercs
>WSP-1T: Removes JJs and SRMs to add two LRM-5s and a ton of ammo; skinny taurian valk. Subvariant has only one LRM and 4JJs
>WSP-1MC:Removes all JJs and weapons, adds six MLs. Hideous in a city, also a hilarious bodyguard
>STG-3MC: removes all weapons and JJs for a LL and additional armor. Tries to be a trooper but can't quite pull it off. Good for hunting regular bugs, though
>WSP-1MP: removes the JJs and SRMs, adds a second ML and upgrades the engine to a 180. A few drop the second ML for a Supercharger. Nobody expects a Wasp to outrun their locust, decent for fast harassment

>>51582984
It's the era we were discussing. Might wanna look into some remedial courses to work on your reading comprehension there, champ.

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I might have the opportunity to do some art for that /btg/ TRO, what's the contact info of that guy?

>>51583117
Just say "FWL is shit" and he appears

Seriously now, Muninn has his email on the blog

>>51583173
Oh there's a blog? Huh. Well, guess I'll look for that then.

>>51583186

Link is in OP

>/btg/ does a TRO:
http://builtforwar.blog(not spam)spot.com

>>51577489
>>51580912
I haven't seen any source that puts Skobel or Martinson on Caph. Various TROs have Lang Industries making Shadow Hawks there, General Systems making Exterminators, and Stormvanger making the Cyclops, Falcon, and Javelin, plus the Striker, maybe.

>>51583029
Ok I'm sorry

>>51582806
I don't think that's correct, given that mediums were still the most numerous weight class.

>>51583323
Looks like Blakists built brand spanking new Skobel and Martinson plants there in the 3060's. It's in the Oppie entry in TRO:3075.

>>51583384
The problem is the way that they gave hard numbers for how many bugs there are. It's the same way that techhnically the majority of assault mechs should be chargers and banshees; my best guess is that the writers of OG TRO 3025 imagined larger militaries than canon ended up giving us

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Quick question. Is there a clan version of the old standby SRM and LRM carriers?

>>51583524
Nope, thank God

>>51583323
Now are you citing historical factories that made mechs there or rebuilt factories?

>>51583390
Merc Supplemental Updates too

>>51583524

The Clans don't really believe in artillery so that probably wouldn't be found in their inventory.

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>>51583524
Well, you could call this thing the Clan decendant of a LRM Carrier... on crack and steroids.

>>51583644
Makes me think of that Ost IIC the Falcons were working on...

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>>51583524
No, as >>51583577 said, you should thank god, as here's an SRM carrier.

>>51583635
>Merc Supplemental Updates
Anyone have a PDF of that? I can't find it anywhere

>>51583644

It really depends on the Clan. Some are much more likely to use it than others - let's not forget that the incident sparking off the WoR was a highly contentious artillery strike made by the Jade Falcons (pro arty) vs the Steel Vipers (rabid conservatives).

But yes, even among Clans that do use artillery, it's not exactly popular and will usually be the first thing bid away, even before 2nd line aerospace or conventional infantry.

>>51583694
At least they had the damn common courtesy to put a clan robot happy smiley face in the back.
>>51583724
So a possible 90 missiles that you could have to roll for location.
Why do you hate life? Kidding. Does MegaMek basically stop keeping track of missiles halfway through and tell you to do it yourself?

>>51583384

Mediums have never been the most nuerous weight class, anon.

They get described as the backbone of militaries and shit but lights, by the descriptions and by the numbers, have always been the most numerous.

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>>51583965
I've got dice boxes upon dice boxes anon. Take this too, which is basically a Bane 3 but better.

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>>51583992
And I thought the anon who made the Clan Archer using Streak SRM-4s was dangerous.
I take it worrying about a tank costing over 22 million is worthless since things are usually counted via battle value for games, except for things like mercenaries worrying about the bottom line, am I right?

>>51584167
Well C-Bills are worthless to the Clans anyway, and I can't think that anyone beyond the Horses would build it though.

>>51584189

>I can't think that anyone beyond the Horses would build it though

Maybe the Ravens?

>>51584189
Bears?

>>51584220
Ravens would want a flying version, most likely. Or something cheaper.

>>51584226
They'd want it, but do we want to give the Bears more good things?

>>51583789

Falcons are anti-artillery and pro-hypocrisy.

Which is to say that artillery is doubleplus ungood when anyone else does it, but it's totally fine to assign artillery vehicles to combat engineers and have them bombard the enemy. Because they're not part of the bid, they're just providing engineering support during battle.

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>>51584189

>I can't think that anyone beyond the Horses would build it though.

Anyone who brought the Pheonix Hawk IIC with the quartet of LRMs maybe?

>>51584257
I know they get some BS stuff but it's not worth hating them over it.

>>51584325
The fluff for the tank notes that the Star of tanks the Bears *did* have were used in the Second Dominion War on the Nova Cat civilians. Fragmentation rounds errywhere.

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>>51583789
>>51584270

The Falcons also created their own Artillery vehicle as of the Dark Age, and are noted as using the Carnivore and JES II apparently.

>>51583976
Canonically, mediums outnumber lights in every military except the DCMS, actually

>>51583464
Pretty sure we can safely discard many of the numbers cited in those early books as... mistaken.
The old addage "fasa was not big on errata" works well here.

>>51583976
What numbers do you go off of? Mine indicate that lights are most numerous only in Draconis space, and the only other faction that does not have a number bias towards mediums is the Lyrans.

>>51585099
>Pretty sure we can safely discard many of the numbers cited in those early books as... mistaken.
Oh, I agree. I was just talking about where that wanker was getting his numbers from

>>51583464

>chargers and banshees

I would have thought the Atlas would have had the Banshee outnumbered.

>>51584368
Ouch.

Though I can see why they hate the Nova Cats.

>>51585080

No, that's just the weight classes averaging out as mediums.

Lights have always been the most common machines.

Backbone =/= most common. Average mass =/= most common.

>>51585099

>What numbers do you go off of?

The ones in the TRs saying so.

>>51585122

Players, novels, and SBs ignore a lot of what's said about force compositions to do something interesting instead. Going by what the TRs state, a lot of Companies should have 2-4 Stingers, 2-4 Wasps, 2-4 Locusts, and 1-2 Archers before getting to anything else, but when was the last time you saw or fielded anything like that?

>>51585122
Hah, no.
The atlas has always been rare, but the banshee is absurdly common for an assault if one takes these dumb numbers games at face value, than there are enough banshees to fill dozens ofregiments' assault compliments with only banshees, and another hundred or so worth of chargers

>>51580533
I appreciate the speed suggestion. Still not easy given the different options but it works better.

Do you think I should keep the omnis all in one binary? As it is I have the omnis sorted into two stars, each with one point of SLDF fighters of similar speeds to round them out.

>>51585335

Speed is the key factor really. It's a surprisingly high number of OmniFighters but the RATs will spit up odd results. If they could all be consolidated into one Star or if only a pair of them had come up I'd say do that or give them to the officers, but it is what it is.

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>>51585220

>Going by what the TRs state, a lot of Companies should have 2-4 Stingers, 2-4 Wasps, 2-4 Locusts, and 1-2 Archers before getting to anything else, but when was the last time you saw or fielded anything like that?

To be fair, a lot of militarizes may be substituting the bug mechs and what not for other designs and relegating all bugs to their Garrison and PDF forces and out of their Front Line unit.

Also, are we sure the information in those TR's haven't seen any revisions or retcons over the years?


>>51585224

>the banshee is absurdly common for an assault

Doesn't that mean most Banshees in current operation are the Lyran made BNC-3S, BNC-5S and BNC-9S?

I read the Lyrans have the bulk of all Banshee in the Sphere and that all of theirs are the gun heavy ones.

>>51585509

Most will be the base model or regional variant outside of the Lyrans.

It may not make much sense but welcome to the wonderful world of canon, where the Wolverine-6M remains a FWL exclusive despite being such a logical variant and easy to refit.

>>51585220
Canonically, 40% of mechs in the IS are mediums, and 30% are lights. That's just canon. The logical inference is that bugs are extremely common in militas and private security and pirates and other units not part of the listed armed forces

>>51585583

We went through this a few threads ago, anon. That figure is from BattleForce and clashes with literally everything else.

New canon beats old, and in this case we have many, many sources newer than BF specifying numbers that make lights far more prevalent.

>>51585565

>Most will be the base model or regional variant outside of the Lyrans.

Which means the original and most of those variants are the minority in terms Banshee numbers aren't they?

>>51585763

Depends on era. But prior to the -3S the standard model with the A/C-5 and PPC will dwarf the numbers of everything else no matter where you go.

The Lyrans were refitting to the -3S as fast as they could but there's no hard numbers on that or the -5S upgrade process.

I would expect that by 3050 at least half of the Banshees fielded by the Lyrans would be -3S models, maybe as high as 75%. That's just me though.

According to Xotl, the average is 30% light, 40% medium, 20% heavy, 10% assault.

FS and CC follow those averages. Lyrans are 20/30/35/14, DCMS is 40/20/30/10, and FWL is 30/40/22.5/7.5

>>51585868
*lyrans are 20/30/35/15

>>51585868
Yeah but that's entirely non canon and unsupported. It's Medron-tier.

>>51585949
Dude's on the mul team, I trust what he says when it comes to mech availability and numbers desu

>>51585949

I'd trust Xotl a fuck ton further than I would Medron, but yeah. The source for those numbers is old, suspect (since it was meant to be used for creating large formations with the BF rules and didn't fit too well with existing canon) and has been retconned since then any way.

>>51585963
MUL has been known to be corrected... More than a bit.

When it's published it'll be credible.

Well, then give a source for these new numbers.

>>51586011
There isn't one.

>>51586011
I'd bet captain copypasta's work on TRO 3039 is the source

>>51586037
>TRO 3039

Why does /btg/ not like it again?

>>51586034
??
So are people saying xotl's numbers are old and new sources prove them wrong but there is no source for new numbers?

Actually yeah I checked TRO 3039 and it quotes medium mechs at 40%

>>51586011

There are no hard numbers. It's just that those percentages are completely impossible with the figures for Light 'Mechs given in TR 3039.

It shouldn't even need saying, but the militaries trended heavier over time too, focusing on building bigger machines and losing a lot of lights in combat. So what's true in the early eras is less true as you go on. By the Jihad those numbers would make sense given everyone's focuses and what tech allows, but not so much in the Succession Wars.

>>51586088

... in 3067, which is its actual production date. You did slow down to consider that, didn't you?

No wait, of course not.

>>51585220

To be fair, maybe the Stingers and what not were falling out of favor as the years went on from the 4th Succession War onward?

Though the 3085 TRO calls the Wasp a "staple of light lances", it also mentions the Project Pheonix upgrades "returned it to prominence".

Did the Ghost Bears fight any major battles or campaigns between Operation Revival and that spat the Wolves/Hell's Horses started?

>>51586135
lol what a passive-aggressive bitch way to type

different anon ftr

>>51586135
Cite your sources saying that it was different in different eras.

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>>51583587
Those a re all factories that predate the Succession Wars. All of these facilities were destroyed during the Amaris Crisis or shortly after.

>>51586138

Wasp is specifically stated to be the most common 'Mech in existence in its TR entry, with the Stinger close behind. With the kinds of numbers that are thrown around there with 5K Stingers active at the start of the 4th SW there has to be at least 92.59 regiments worth of *just* the Stinger and Locust, out of ~500 regiments total. And that's minimum, with like one more Wasp than there were Stingers, even though the Wasp is supposed to be far more common. Then there's the Locust, which isn't supposed to be that far behind the Stinger.

>>51586162

Virtually all of the Field Manuals have some flavour of "Thanks to new tech allowing bigger things to go faster and new designs being manufactured average weight is trending up."

>>51586100
So I ran the numbers on the light mechs.

It says that 5000 stingers remain in service in the inner sphere by the 4th succession war. Xotl estimates a little under 32k mechs between the 5 great houses in 3028 (assuming each regiment is 108 mechs strong, maybe take 15-20% off that number) and that's not counting all the mechs in periphery and mercenary service.

So reduce that number by 15% for actual strength to get ~25k mechs, and take 1000 or so off for those not in use with a house military. You get around 8000 light mechs assuming the 30% ratio. About 4000 of that would be stingers. Problem is it then says wasps are more numerous than stingers and locusts. So let's ballpark it and say 3000 locusts, 4000 stingers, 4500 wasps. That'd be a little less than half of the estimated mechs in the great houses, just between the bug trio.

Now, this could be solved if the regiment counts aren't considering garrison forces (which would have proportionally a much higher ratio of bugs), and it depends on just how many of these are in periphery and mercenary hands, which could be higher than I estimated.

>>51586285

And how many of those Wasps and Stingers left with the SLDF during the Exodus?

>>51586305
200k were produced, TRO 3039 says 5k are still in the inner sphere in 3025.

>>51586295
>and it depends on just how many of these are in periphery and mercenary hands, which could be higher than I estimated.
Periphery 1e also suggests that most periphery regiments primarily use medium mechs, and all the canon battalion+ mercs also have weights listed in the 3025 housebooks. The apparently hundreds of unlisted lance to company sized merc units could absorb a lot of fucking bugs, though, it's true. Add that to the many extant but unlisted militas and widespread but again unnumbered and unlisted pirate groups not worth the title of bandit kingdoms and the once more unnumbered and unlisted small periphery independents, and you could probably account for those bugs.
But CGL just not including those numbers in their presumptive "3039 with shimseen" TRO is certainly an easier solution. Or just ignoring the bugposter along with the rest of the FASAnomics shitposts, that's easy, too

>>51586295

I know that unstated (and massive) militia and private forces are a favoured way of explaining the discrepancies in numbers but when we get scenario write-ups and SB details on invasions the numbers of 'Mechs (and ASFs) that show up beyond what's listed in FMs are virtually all there is.

I'm more than willing to say that the two statements don't match up and leave it there though. 40% isn't workable with the number of light 'Mechs we have figures for.

>>51586408
The mercenery books have continuously stated from the very beginning.up till now that hundreds (or occasionally even thousands (!) )of small merc units exist, and they're rarely accounted for in books, but their existence is continuously reenforced

>>51586485
Yeah. And I'd bet 2/3rds of those are just a lance of light mechs, which would account for a lot of these.

>>51586485

We do however have hard numbers for the House militaries, as per >>51586295. Those comprise virtually all the known forces, even accounting for small merc commands and militias.

The numbers just don't add up.

If you want to register on the OF and ask them to commit to either the 40% mediums comment and reduce by around three quarters the number of Stingers said to be in operation to bring things into line or reduce the Medium count to like 25% so it all meshes, be my guest.

>>51586553
The taurians, canopians, and marians have pretty decently sized militaries not accounted for in these numbers.

The taurians are regularly fighting off the FS.

>>51586553
These numbers for the house militaries is just me multiplying the listed regimental count of the houses by 108 and taking 15% off it to account for reduced strength. I don't know if those regiment counts include PDFs and garrisons.

>>51586052
retcons a lot of mech production, who has access to what chassis (especially TRO2750 downgrades), and when the great houses implement recovery of lostech (i.e. 3040's as opposed to 3049-3050).

>>51586572
>marians
They had a single regiment until the 50s, and then they had three. Even the OA had more mechs

>>51586572

The IS, Periphery, and known Merc forces in 3049 have about 540 regiments between them. And that's after beefing up a bit from 3025.

I didn't just pluck ~500 out of thin air.

>>51586686
Oh? My bad, I thought they had more than that.

>>51586691
The 3028 numbers show about 300 regiments for the great houses.

So, I'm interested in BattleTech. Problem is I have no idea of where to start.

You all have more experience than me, so I ask for your help. What books should I read first?

I want to introduce my friends to this universe, so I guess the easier way would be either novels, videogames or RPGs. I know Battletech is a wargame, but I'm going to try and get my friends into the universe before I ask them to buy miniatures.

I also have a lot of questions about several things like editions, rules, and requirements to play, but I'm not going to bother you about that for now.

So, yeah. Where the hell do I start? Is thera a relatively recent RPG of this? Is it "good"? If not, what would be a good way to get people into this?

Thank you for your attention and patience.

>>51586696
They got rome sheng'd later on, but they really were just a regular bandit kingdom with delusions of grandeur until the 60s

>>51582846
Shots fired.

>>51586728

There is a recent RPG but it's a pain in the ass to get into. In a lot of ways the older MechWarrior 2nd Edition is a better choice than the more recent A Time of War or MechWarrior 3rd Edition/Classic BattleTech RPG.

In terms of getting to grips with the universe there are a lot of jumping-off points. The old Gray Death Legion novels are for the original, Mad Max-esque feel of the universe, but things quickly changed from there. The Warrior trilogy for the 4th SW or the Blood of Kerensky novels for the Clan Invasion are the next two points to start with. You can start with the Clan stuff not really knowing much about the Warrior trilogy but everything after the Clan Invasion kinda of requires that foundation.

>>51586762

Not with a Quickscell vehicle, anon.

>>51586728
Best advice, if you're looking to teach them how mechs work, the BattleMech Manual is your clearest option. There is an RPG, but running it relies on the GM knowing a significant portion of lore. Also, avoid the official forums for the game, most of the posters are retarded, confrontational, or both.

>>51586850
>>51586865

Thank you both. I guess I will read the two novel trilogies and the BattleMech Manual and I will sort of figure out my way from there.

>>51585651
Then state your "New" canon sources if you are going to call out someone else's sources. Basic debate protocol moron. Along with insulting people.

>>51586158
Says the passive aggressive bitch. Point noted.

>>51586864
Oh, they would have still been fired. Just all were whiffs. Bad fire control. Luckily, he was a big immobile target. Even Quickscell can hit a hex.

>>51586989
Also grab the old Battletech Master Rules (revised) from the OP. It's probably the most playable comprehensive set of battletech rules ever produced, has rules for tanks and infantry and power armor an stuff. Stuff you'd want that isn't in the Battlemech Manual, but without the utterly pointless complexity that the most recent incarnation of those rules has.

>>51568573
What's the name of the old minatures book? Anyone know the book number?

Trying to get into painting, need some well painted battlemech miniature eye porn to get me motivated.

>>51587675
http://camospecs.com/

>>51587675

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Classic_BattleTech_Miniatures_Rules

>>51587107

It's a damn good manual, though I do prefer some of the changes in TW. Like partial cover, for example. And I love me some TacOps options.

>>51586728
You don't technically even need minatures to play the tabletop game. You can proxy everything. Try the game out once or twice, then decide if you want to buy minatures.

Start with the introductory rules or new Battlemech manual.

>>51583117
Yo. builtforwartro (at) gmail.com

>>51583173
>>51583225
Thanks bruh

Holy crap, the Muninn summoning thing works!

>>51585949
>xotl
>medron-tier

>tro3025
>100% reliable and infallible data

whew lad

there was a god-tier painter whose moniker was 'novacat_gon' anyone know him?

>>51586709
That should be around 385, not 300.

>>51588774
Xotl puts it at 293 in 3028, 320 in 3039, and 356 in 3050 for house regiments. He says the numbers are canon but doesn't cite the sources other than 20 year update.

>>51588807
I just checked the original house kurita book as an example, which shows 78.6 regiments in 3025 compared to the 66 regiments Xotl lists, so I'm not sure what the discrepancy is.

>>51588856

Merc units?

Numbers for House regiments are taken right from official books, but don't include Merc units.

Sources were: House books, 20 Year Update, Field Manual series, FM U, FM 3085, FM 3145. Can't remember offhand where the 3075 figures come from.

Force percentages are pure conjecture apart from the values from BattleForce 1st ed, but I know of no reason to reject them (and I needed something to work off of). They're applied consistently across all factions and times (until the slowly approaching 3057 tables anyways, where I started changing them to reflect the fact that now the Houses can actually build what they want).

>>51589376
Looks like this is correct. I count 12 mercenary regiments and 2 battalions in the 3025 deployment postings. Meaning that more than 15% of the DCMS in 3025 is made up of mercenary regiments which weren't part of my original tally, and this isn't considering mercenary forces smaller than battalion strength. Definitely makes it looks like mercenary regiments are taking up way more mechs than were estimated. Though as a note, 5 of those regiments are Dragoons.

So, where does the 385 number come from that >>51588774 is talking about? Is that with mercenaries?

>>51588401
I mean, if you count it taking like 8 hours...

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It begiiiiins

>>51589547

>So, where does the 385 number come from that >>51588774 is talking about? Is that with mercenaries?

IDK, probably.

Like I said, I went with 500 regiments as a baseline to cover the known merc, periphery, and pirate bands with a fair bit left over. On the numbers given for Stinger, Wasp, and Locust being around 15K total at minimum (and I would expect more given the Wasp numbers are supposed to be greater than the 5K Stingers we know about) that means over a third of the known forces are Bugs. Then you've got to deal with the number of Valkyries and Panthers out there for the Dracs and Feddies.

I can't see how the 40% mediums thing works. Your headcanon may vary.

>>51589853
Probably wanna shoop the background to make it less of a glaring contrast with the mech

>>51590061
He's right. It looks like two very competent animation studios didn't collaborate on their art styles. Both elements are good, but they stick out rather badly.

Interested in starting a small MoC force to serve as an OpFor for my players. Time is Dark Ages, picking MoC cause I want a faction that has a mix of shiny toys and old stuff and is small enough that my players can feel they're having a big impact on the enemy by themselves if they do well enough.

So, what do I need to know about the MoC's military in the Dark Age?

>>51590395
>So, what do I need to know about the MoC's military in the Dark Age?
That it's functionally the Capellan military. The Capellans provide jumpships to keep communication going in the reaches and the MoC provide troops for the war.

>>51590477
That much I know - a lot of the campaign will revolve around them trying to mess up the MoC on the sly, due to the lower level of troops they have with a bunch of units off in the CC.

>>51590492
For who? Marians are about the only option. NeoFWL has bigger problems and Taurians are busy getting their faces beaten in.

>>51590558
Right now their employer is mysterious. One of them checks in here from time to time so I won't go into beyond that.

I'm mainly trying to get a feel for the different units they use so that when I play the OpFor they feel like they're Canopian as opposed to Lyran or Feddies or whatever.

>>51590558

Why would the Marians be doing anything? They're even further away from the FWL, and already occupied.

>>51590395

Looking at FM: 3145 they have a surprising number of Veteran and Elite units so I guess XIN SHENG XIN SHENG is still the order of the day. The lines that survive the Jihad in Objectives: Periphery are:

'Mechs: Marauder, Koschei, Ostroc, Eyleuka, Marshal, Shadow Hawk, Phoenix Hawk, Anubis, Stinger, Wasp, Toro*

Vees: Hummingbird

ASF: Thunderbird, Troika, Lightning, Seydlitz

BA: Trinity BA

*Primitive.

So probably most of their stuff is that, with the gaps filled by Capellan imports.

>>51590587
Canopians make Bugs, Shadowhawks and have a stash of a some Stalkers and Marauders. They got a few upgraded things from Detroit later, mostly phoenix bugs and the Eyleuka .

By the DA they make the Pentawhatever (walking motorcycle), the Ebony, Phoenix Marauders, Calliope, Agrotera, Koschei.

Pretty crazy how much their manufacturing grows in the middle of the state being burned down by Blakists but that's some of that old Capellan magic at work.

>>51590764

>Marshal, Toro
That's for the Taurians. MoC didn't have access to all the Detroit lines.

>>51590783
Oh, also the Ostroc was being built for the Taurians at Detroit so that's not MoC either.

>>51590783
>walking motorcycle

come again?

File: Penthesilea.jpg (209KB, 519x545px) Image search: [Google]

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>>51590805
>So what if we make a walking motorcycle
>Then what will we do with the wheels?
>Put lasers on them of course!

Is it possible to clone people in BT?

>>51590829
Clanners do it. Sorta.

>>51590829
Yes. That's literally how the clans work.

If you mean magic adult clones, no. What they do is take somebody already pretty close like a modern body double and then enhance them with advanced brainwashing, gene treatments and surgery. That's how Mad Max tried to replace Hanse Davion in 3025.

>>51590848
>>51590841
I meant growing them, like in Star Wars.

>>51590858
That's clanners. They get called tubebabies for a reason.

>>51590858
Clanners do grow crops of people in artificial wombs if that's what you're asking.

>>51590793
>>51590783

Detroit was held by the Magistracy at the end of the Jihad and gifted to the Capellans eventually. Since they had a serious rift with the Taurians after the Jihad I doubt they were overly keen on maintaining Trinity-era norms.

The Toro was being built at Bermuda.

>>51590829

The tech is certainly there but there's no rapid-aging stuff to replace people with sleeper agents.

>>51590848

>That's literally how the clans work.

Somebody failed biology.

>>51590858
Clanners warrior cast quite frankly works like the clone army, except they don't bottleneck themselves with exact replicas.

>>51590848
The clans don't really clone people. They take the genetic material of particularly skilled warriors, mix it together, and use that to brew up a new batch. They're not clones so much as they are the mass produced children of the previous generation's best warriors.

>>51590932

This. Cloning people is the exact opposite to what the Clans want, the whole goal of the eugenics program is to produce the ultimate warrior by cultivating the right mix of genetic traits.

Making copies defeats the excercise.

>>51590902
>Somebody failed biology.

They don't take eggs and sperm. They literally shuffle the genes around and produce a gamete by inserting a complete nucleus in the exact same way as cloning. They just think it's better to constantly be trying to improve their soldiers instead of making a bunch of direct copies of the same ones. So yeah, the clan trueborn technology is 100% the same for if you wanted to make clones.

>>51590956

>They don't take eggs and sperm

But they do, anon. That's what the Giftake usually though not always is. The Clans explicitly only use normal genetic recominbination via meiosis to create new generations, they do not engage in genetic engineering because reasons.

The technology and expertise to do so has to be there because they can whip up physical copies from electronic masters if need be but directly messing with genomes is an ideological no-no.

I was just looking at the MUL and noticed the Regulans are apparently manufacturing the Hector in the Dark Age. Any fluff on that anywhere? I've always loved that hunk of junk, for some reason.

>>51591022

MUL is the only place I can see that. It doesn't get a mention in FM: 3145 or Objectives: FWL at all.

>>51591006

>directly messing with genomes is an ideological no-no.

Or was for most of their history, at any rate. To get the ElStars fromn the Dark Age fluff the only reasonable inference is that they finally have gone full Genecaste and started deliberate gengineering.

>>51591022
>>51591057

I think it's a retcon of the Harmony Mackie line since the MUL doesn't give the primitive Mackie to the Regulans despite the mention in Objectives FWL.

>>51591076
The scientists have been doing that stuff behind the warriors back basically since forever. The difference is whether they bother to try and hide it or not.

>>51591139
I also just realized Objectives FWL Industry at a Glance doesn't have Ronin listed for the Regulans. Now that's some seriously sloppy proofing.

File: btfo.gif (2MB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x281px

ZAWARUDO!!!

File: a3d2c9f5cf192d6ce8078c274d9fc4e9.jpg (19KB, 500x280px) Image search: [Google]

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>>51591177

>bad fact-checking and proof-reading
>in a CGL product
>done by MadCap

>>51591139
But the MUL lists the Mackie as well.

Maeve Wolf was a female clone of Jaime Wolf, so it IS possible to do.

>>51591300
Given that anon said "the" primitive Mackie, they may have forgotten there are two models of primitive Mackie.

What would the BT equivalent of the Helghans be?

>>51591566
Capellans

>>51590783
>have a stash of a some Stalkers and Marauders
I'd heard of the Marauders, first time hearing about a "stash" of Stalkers.

>>51591308
>cloning a female Marko Ramius
scary...

>>51591213
I hope this game is awesome. I have great reservations about it already.

>>51590941
What about copies of the ultimate warrior?

>>51590764
>Looking at FM: 3145 they have a surprising number of Veteran and Elite units
They had those going all the way back to FM:P. Just sloppy, shitting writing by fanboys.

>>51589544
>pure conjecture
>no reason to reject them
fucking christ, stick to your day job

>>51579883
Football or real football?

>>51577782
Do they have to be shit? Can't we make a mediocre one?

>>51573937
True Believers were awesome. I wish we'd seen more of them in the Jihad, but surprisingly (and sadly) we never really got much on the WoB Conclave factions or their PoV in it.

>>51591765
>American game written by Americans
Why would you even ask this question when you already know the answer?

>>51591790
I still play BT when it's run by CGL and Coleman and MadCap write things. I clearly must be a masochist.

File: Thanatos_battlemech_colors3.jpg (784KB, 1421x1125px) Image search: [Google]

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>>51590061
>>51590265
Well, the aim is to give both the mech and the background the same sort of aesthetic feel, though I can add colour filter layers for the background later on.

Originally intended to imitate Alex' later concepts, what with the black and white background and the start contrast to the coloured mech as the centerpiece.

>>51591765
That was a handegg game. IIRC the Ghost Bears and the Jags were big on handegg, some others played rugby and yet others played proper footy.

>>51585470
test

new thread
>>51591822

File: udb1.jpg (19KB, 512x384px) Image search: [Google]

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>>51591730

An army of Ultimate Warriors would collapse stars under it's collective ego.

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>>51591765
Found it. Also, the Wolves, Coyotes and Fire Mandrills are keen on lacrosse.

>>51591831
Not to mention run out of steam by the time they run into the battlefield.

>>51591841
>handegg emphasizes teamwork and planning
>Jaguars played it
Must be wrong, rugby would be more their thing.

File: BGC_motoroid.jpg (130KB, 512x768px) Image search: [Google]

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>>51590805
>walking motorcycle
>come again?

There'll be a hurricane tonight.

>>51591808

I like that a lot more. Both the 'mech and the background have similar texture now, so it looks less out of place.

>>51566986
Which ones die horribly?