What happened to the guy who wrote the Mirrodin Besieged flavor

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>>51562760
Bad flavor text is not a recent development. Never forget this gem.

In fact, why not have a bad flavor text thread

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>>51565380
Or a favorite flavor text thread?

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>>51562760
>>51562760
not too far after it, it seems

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>>51565380
>Bad flavor text is not a recent development
No, but it is a recent development that bad flavor text is nearly universal. Compare this actual cringeworthy garbage to its prior prints for a good idea of how the writing quality of MtG has decayed over time.

I haven't followed the storyline closely since the Manateers became MaRo's pets but even just playing the cards it's easy to see the decline. Jace and co. are flavor poison.

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>>51565421
Odyssey block had the best flavor text.

Fucking fight me.

If this was printed now it would say something like, "Nissa learned that Otaria's druids are so in touch with nature, they can manifest bestial forms to defend their homes in times of trouble."

>>51562760
Scars of Mirrodin had really great flavour. Probably my favorite set desu

>>51565757
block*

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I don't get it. The newer supplemental product flavor text isn't that bad. Most still aren't as good as the classics, but its certainly better than the shit they put in the standard sets.

>>51565907
The difference is the supplementals aren't required by Maro mandate to shill the Jacetice League.

>>51562760
I like the Ogre one.


Are we supposed to not like it?

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>>51565479
God, this is egregious.

>>51565926
Made it 9 posts. You're getting better, /tg/.

>>51562760
that's chandra's revolution flavor text is pretty bad. it seems like two completely different thoughts. here are my alternate versions:

>Chandra pours her anger out with great generosity, for the man who killed her father, and anybody else who stands in her way.

>Chandra's driving force is anger. Anger directed at many, but most of all for the man who killed her father.

>Chandra fights for many reasons but none more fiercely than a man named Kiran.

i think in general i prefer flavor text to be in the present tense?

>>51565949
The image is clearly supposed to be a contrast between bad vs. good.

>>51566066
Fair enough.

>>51565479
This one has to be a joke.

>>51566035
Well, he's not wrong.

>>51566035
Are you actually trying to argue that Jace and friends is actually good for the story? I much preferred when the focus was on the plane itself and how they explored its unique characteristics. Now they shove these mary sue avengers rip offs in our face to try to capitalize on the current "MCU" hype.

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>>51566079
as a dedicated goblin player, i wish it was.

wizards always been keeping goblin kin down.

>>51566260
Same. I want to know more about the planes and the history and nature of it, not what some Saturday morning super hero's are doing meddling in the affairs of other planes.

In fact that's what I want to see next. The Jacetice league gets in shit for interfering with other planes and basically pull a watchmen on them.

>>51566439
I think I'd like it more if it was any good at all. I'm fine with it in concept, but the storytelling is just awful.

>>51565949
No, because it is miles better than the new jacetice league card.

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>>51566065
>Chandra fights for many reasons but none more fiercely than a man named Kiran.

Fucking five stars.

>>51565421
>>51565709
Both of those are directly from MaRo.

>>51566621
It's not news that MaRo can do good shit. Like many writers, the problems arise when he's given free reign. If you took his nuwalker pets away from him I have no doubt he could be competent again.

>>51566065
>Chandra's madness gave her motive, and her motive gave her might; all come to bear down on the mantle of the man she hated most, the maker of her father's memory.

>>51566739
Oof.

>>51566758
no good?

>>51566581
thanks i've applied to work at wotc on a number of occasions but they said i couldn't work there because i'm too gay

>>51566294
That's disgraceful.

I also love greenskins in games and that's such a waste.

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>>51565709
you're right, the flavor text would suck if they printed it today.

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>>51566807

it hurts

>>51566841
kek, that's actually really good

>>51566904
jesus. how did they fuck up so much on IDENTICAL cards in just one year?? Who actually looked at the m12 flavor text and thought, "yes, this is clearly an improvement over the last core set"

>>51565709
not broken enough
>Nissa learned, much to her dismay, that Otaria's druids are so in touch with nature that, in times of trouble, they can defend their homes by shapechanging into bestial forms

>>51566792
I believe the Oof meant someone jizzed their pants.

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>>51565643
I liked most of the Elderitch Moon flavor text

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>>51566987
they seem to mix up "goblins can be reckless and used for cannon fodder by even their own" with "goblins are retarded idiots that jump in volcanoes for fun"

i think its a conspiracy to keep greenskins down. show a goblin with too much success and everyone freaks the fuck out.

>>51567034
Someday...

Someday I'll be good at words.

>>51566904
>>51566987
I kinda like how fucking stupid it is. Like, I'm impressed.
It doesn't even make any sense.
The best way over is through? What?

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>>51566904
But those are both pretty good

>>51566792
Yeah sorry it's dreadful. Though I gotta say I like the idea of Chandra going crazy, if only because it would finally be advancing her character.

And maybe getting rid of her so we can have a new Red frontliner who isn't just Diet Jaya.

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>>51566904
and who could forget THIS classic?

>>51565479
>>51567445
goblinmind

>>51567462
o fug skimming through the thread i didn't see someone had already posted the chieftain.

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>>51567129
>>51567165
its not even like a cute but dumb line, its just flat and doesnt make any sense.

a quote like "Everyone knows that The fastest path between two points is a straight line! Duh!" would be better, maybe add "- Tun-Tugs last words" or something flavorful.

when did goblin lore just all end up with gobbos dying? RIP slobad and tuktuk

>>51567482
literally third post in a less than 50 post thread

>>51567508
yeah as soon as the thread loaded I shot down to like, post #25 I aint got time to read all that shit

>>51567551
there is no way you couldve missed that unless you are phoneposting

red players like you give red players like me a bad name

>>51567717
lolz not even phone posting just a lazy fucker

>>51566065

>Passion fueled her fire. Whether it was the love of her father or the anger towards the man who killed him.

>>51567901
that's a nice one. it has a good push and pull to it.

>>51567920

Thanks. That what I was hoping to get.

>>51567901
ding, we have a winrar

>>51565643

>Invention and aether flow together in a great Cycle, and to understand that is to understand Kaladesh.

>>51562760
>Chandra was cross with basically everybody, but she was the most peeved by the man who offed her dad.

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>>51566065
I think the problem is it that it is trying to describe her in a way that works if you are talking about a place or animal, but not really for a person. It just seems like she is lifeless in this text, not to mention how awkward it is.

>>51566294
It's because they have decided that rather than every color and race getting a wide range of emotions and tones, all things silly must be red, and all things dumb must be goblins, because everything must be easily broken down for marketing analysis.

it would be a boon to the whole game if superfriends and nico bolas inc. all kill each other in the next set with no hint towards what happens next. they could create something entirely new after that.

wouldn't that be nice?

>>51565949
The point here is that the flavor on the ogre makes me care more about that ogre then literally every generic Chandra flavortext ever.

>>51568650
That would be nice.

Unfortunately the packaging for the block after Amonkhet block was leaked and Ajani is confirmed. It's possible others could die before then but it seems unlikely.

>>51566968
>bear lore

>>51568080
The problem here is that "invention" is an abstract concept while "aether" is presumably a concrete one for kaladeshians. It reads like a brochure rather than a legitimate description. Come see beautiful Kaladesh, we have Invention and Aether.

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>>51568622
>tfw this logic made Viashino degenerate from crafty desert warriors and artificiers to screaming retard crocodiles and finally removed altogether when their overlap with Goblins reached 100%

Really hate the "each color gets 1 sapient race + humans" paradigm.

>>51568795

Yea, I know. I was trying to keep the same concept of the original.

>>51568886
And I respect the attempt, but while your take IS better there's just no salvaging flavor text that bad without redoing it entirely.

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>>51568622
i dont mind silly, but being flat is another thing.

compare >>51567508 with pic related. one tells a simple story and while doesnt have much synergy gameplaywise, it gets an idea across. this. THIS doent really work that well, pias flavor is better, and pia is a better card with little synergy other than most people would take the damage most of the time.

also this art looks rather flat. did aether revolt get a minimalist style or is it just this card/artist?

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In my opinion, this has always been the greatest example of the half-life of flavor text quality.

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>>51568948
This is the worst. I wouldn't even mind the new flavor text on a similar card, but replacing something like that? Fuck all of that.

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>>51568948

I always hated the new text. Hasn't Barrin suffered enough without making a joke of his lowest moment?

>>51568928

Holy fuck. I didn't realize that was combined art. Now I want a mat with the full picture on it. Damn it.

>>51569022
>someone, somewhere, actually likes Chandra enough to want a mat of her
Guess Maro isn't alone after all.

>>51569065
>you might not care, but others do!

>>51569065

I've always liked her, though not waifu level of like. Admittedly, I wish they'd stop having her act like a 12 year old.

>>51569065
Chandra is the most likable member of the Gatewatch.

Not that that's saying much.

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>>51569065

the art fucking sucks thou

>>51569161
When you consider that Jace is basically a harassed middle-manager who saves the multiverse mostly out of a sense of obligation he becomes a bit more charming.

>>51569214
Are you really defending Jace's character? He's a total cunt.

>>51569214
>>51569242
Flavor text jace is a total cunt.
Story Archive jace is a combination of harassed middle manager, every problem possible with telepathy, and a giant walking pile of dumb amnesia side effects brought on by TERRIBLE DECISIONS. It makes him a much more enjoyable character.
>That moment when you realize jace literally forgot how to solve the implicit maze, immediately before entering the implicit maze, because he thought that anyone knowing about it would be dangerous.
>Fucking six hours before Niv-Mizzet told everyone about it.

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I'm working on a custom set and flavor text really is quite difficult. I find myself defaulting to puns or exposition too much.

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>>51568928
The Pia text looks good next to the Chandra text, but honestly in a vacuum it sucks. I think the inherent problem is that the conflict itself just isn't very good. The Consulate isn't really evil, the renegades cause is really meh, and the whole thing feels a bit phoned in. No one seems really passionate, if you get me. I mean, look at these Mirrodin Besieged cards. Even the more boring ones are way better than anything in this set.

Actually, I think I figured out the worst part of the new flavortext. The story moment text is the worst by far, because it is literally nothing but exposition. It's all just "And then this person, who is like X, did Y, because Z."

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>>51568980
Also, I don't get the "Keldon soldier" part. The Keld I'm used too doesn't give a shit about the cost if even just one enemy is killed.

>>51569766

Phyrexia does tend to make for that kind of thing since there can't be any peaceable solution or middle ground. You either have to kill them all or be annihilated yourselves.

They also fit a niche in that they have an alien but not TOO alien mindset, so they don't slot into Bolas's saturday morning cartoon villain vibe or the Eldrazi's pretentious YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND bullshit. Their thought processes are strange and quite horribly insane from any perspective but their own but have their own kind of logic.

>>51568795
>>51565643
Actually, this one was an attempt at a callback. It's an obvious reference to the RtR one. That's one reason it sounds a bit awkward. It's certainly not the best but I'd hesitate to call it anything worse than mediocre.

Re: "sounding like a brochure," that may have been intentional: Kaladesh was supposed to be all bright and cherry, to better contrast it with the reality shown in Aether Revolt.

>51566439
>In fact that's what I want to see next. The Jacetice league gets in shit for interfering with other planes and basically pull a watchmen on them.
>t. Didn't read the story where Ugin chews them out for killing the Titans
They've been foreshadowing this for ages now

>>51569936

Although even Aether Revolt was pretty tame overall. The consulate forces despite the crackdowns and such fight using almost exclusively nonlethal tactics, as do the rebels, apparently. There's a fuckload of property damage but Baral and Liliana appear to be the only people in the story actually trying to cause casualties on either side. The revolt is based more around ousting a corrupt faction in the consulate's energy department than the overthrow of the existing social order, and after Tezzeret flees to Amonkhet, the two sides quickly reach an understanding. Aside from Kambal losing his job to Pia as a concession to the Renegades, it appears peace is restored surprisingly easily once Tezzeret is no longer in the picture.

Kaladesh/Aether Revolt is very blatantly a breather episode. Things were very high-stakes in the last two blocks with Eldrazi devouring everything, and SOI was pretty fucking dark, although most of that is focused on how the normal people on Innistrad are fuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked now.

Kaladesh gives us a bright, optimistic story and some feel-good moments for Chandra and the others while at the same time setting them up for a fall when their victory there spurs them to unwisely attack Amonkhet. It's the classic "the heroes have won some major victories, but in doing so put themselves in a situation where they have to cross paths with the big-leagues villains and promptly get their shit pushed in as a reality check." I'd put money on it, Amonhket is going to go very badly for the Gatewatch.

>>51566904
>post Goblin Chieftain
>What the fuck wizards, so goblins always gave to be comedic relief? This is bullshit!
>post this
>What the fuck wizards, what is this quippy bullshit? It's not funny at all!
You're a fucking child. The M12 flavor text is miles better than the older one, and more unique -- if you like goblins so much, you're already aware of just how many flavor texts boil down to "man, Goblins sure suck huh?"

>>51569065
Chandra is a cute and conceptually fine. The problem is the people writing her nowadays.
In The Purifying Fire and the webcomics she was a hothead, cunning daredevil. But WotC's keeps pulling it's interns from some Seattle comunity college's women studies courses and giving them stories to write.

>>51570052
Fantastic, hope that soppy knife ear dies or gets captured and turned into Bolas' fucktoy.
Hope Jace dies too, pretentious cunt has it coming. Get back to coolwalkers already wizards

>>51569928
True, and there is nothing wrong with having a morally gray villain. The problem is that the villains, while clearly the bad guys, aren't evil, but act evil in specific ways, which are not the direct reason the revolt is happening and...

Actually, a much less tortured way of saying it is either go big or go home. The Consulate basically did like 2 things that are bad, and even then they went out of their way to emphasize how temporary those measures were. And the rebels are all goody and don't seem to have any genuine hate or vengeance in them except for Baral. Either make the Consulate the Colombian Army and the rebels FARC (two factions that have legitimate arguments but both commit atrocities), or make the Consulate the Gestapo and the rebels the Partisans, so at least even with the mutual massacres one side clearly deserves it.

>>51570052
welp, you basically summarized what I was trying to say here >>51570118 about fifty times better then I did. Well done, have a cookie.

>>51566065
She raged about her family, about her life. But mostly she just raged.

>>51570052
we can't have people getting killed in this children's card game

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>>51569866
Where's the best Keldon flavor text?

>>51570190
That one is great. My only gripe would be a trivia one: we're not shown these "beasts of Keld" in the art, and the phrase is generic enough to not give you any idea what they are besides, presumably, large. Or you can read "footprints" and "beasts" more figuratively. That duality is kind of neat, but I doubt it was intentional.

>>51570118
It was really weird that none of the cards in Aether Revolt, not even the black or red ones, depict anyone participating in the revolt with anything but the purest of intentions. No dwarven war profiteers sensing an impending power vacuum, no vedalken interested in the freedom to pursue clearly unethical experiments, no aetherborn curious what a consul's soul tastes like, no humans too poor to be artificers who just want to vent their frustration. It really made the world kind of boring.

>>51570235
You just kind of have to infer from the rest of the set that it's figurative and they're humans (maybe human mutants) who behave in a bestial way.

>>51570187

Eh, people died by the billions in the last two blocks, one block where everybody's OK is fine as a breather.

>>51570280

Oddly, Gonti was clearly backing both sides of the conflict since they had an understanding with the exact faction the revolt was trying to oust but ALSO supplied the rebels with weaponry to rise up in the first place. What, if anything, they were playing at by doing so is never really made clear, so I had to assume Gonti was just hedging their bets so it didn't matter if Kambal or Pia was in charge when the dust settled.

>>51570158
under fucking rated

>>51570052
No Origins Five walker is getting killed or changed drastically until they get their god damned movie.
Hasbro is hellbent on selling the IP to Hollywood and riding off the cross-promotion. And the new WotC CEO is desperate to enter the "esport" world with Magic. Meanwhile half the shareholders want every rare to be Black Lotus expensive/rare, and half want to abolish the resserved list and throw the baby with the bathwater in a deluge of reprints.

These next couple years are gonna be bursting with conflicting interests.

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Does anyone have the whole poem from the Invasion novel? It's no Love Song of Night and Day, but I remember liking it at the time.

>>51570406

I don't expect any of the Gatewatch to die on Amonkhet, but I'm feeling like this is where they're going to get their shit pushed in hard by Bolas and then hit their "scattering of the fellowship" thing.

Y'know, like in the end of Season 1 of the new Voltron, where the crew go up against the main bad guy, get their asses kicked, and while running for it get separated.

The gatewatch fight Bolas, they lose very badly, and escape is messed up in some way that flings all five members to different parts of the multiverse where circumstances delay their reunion for a while as they develop individually, with a getting the band back together subplot that stretches through the next couple blocks.

>>51566065
>Kiran's death sparked the fire of her rage, and only death can quench the fires that torment her soul

Well I tried

If this is the lore-releated thread, then i have a question. There is a Blessed vs Cursed incoming, but what have happened of the Innistrad after Emrakul summon? And what happens during the Blessed vs Cursed?

>>51570080

wizards confuse passion = retarded

just because they are used as cannon fodder, doent mean they are complete idiots meant to be comic relief. i enjoy their shenanigans, but that doesnt mean they are all stupid, just that they are exploited by those smarter than them, be it human or gobbos.

see >>51565479 >>51566294 >>51566904

there are plenty of smart goblins, but they always DIE for some stupid reason. slobad was a fucking PLANESWALKER and sacrificed for a "greater good", as well as tuktuk.

M12 flavor text is so bad fucking 4chan can make better ones in a few hours.

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insert aristocrats joke here

>>51570521

It's ok, Squee is still alive.

>>51570436
I hoped for a decent storyline for the last 3 blocks and was always disappointed, so honestly I'm done. Of course they'll beat Bolas. They will fuck up, then Ajani will suddenly show up with a band of useless neowalkers, Bolas will run in the usual "And I would have done it, if it wasn't for you meddling kids" style (but his plans won't be revealed yet because muh super smart elder dragon), then off to Theros to save Elspeth cause we need her to be alive and in the Gatewatch for the inevitable Phyrexia showdown.

Screencap this.

>>51569608
These violent delights always come to violent ends

>>51569174
That looks like something you'd see on deviantart.

Look at the way all the cogs are directly facing the viewer.

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>>51565709
>Odyssey block had the best flavor text.

>>51569214

He'd be more likeable if he ever did his fucking job. I swear the next Ravnica set will have everything on fire because he never turns up to work.

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>>51570187
Hey pal.
You just blow in from stupid town?

>>51572423
>These violent delights always come to violent ends

somebody been watching westworld, and don't even pretend otherwise

>>51570521
>m12 flavor text is so bad 4chan can improve on it
So what's bad about it? You never said, just "it sucks." So what sucks about it? How do I know you don't just have awful taste?

>>51575832
He's obviously being sarcastic you dumb sack of shit

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>>51576220

>>51576237
Actually, I simply made a mistake for replying before I opened your image. I was under the impression that you were posting images from older sets showing lethality/people dying as a counterpoint to his sarcasm re: Magic being a game where people don't die, when what was actually the case was that you were refuting the claim of the person he was responding to and agreeing with that Kaladesh had very little lethality. So my bad on that end.

Although that does make me wonder why you included cards from SoI, BfZ, and EM in your image.

>>51576047
i did in another post. it boring, flat, and doesnt make sense. its not even dumb but funny, its just kinda there. there is no punchline or purpose.

>>51569174
Yikes, you're right. In card form it looks ok, but now it looks like it was sent in accidentally when it was only 70% done.

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>>51565479
M11 was a flavor text goldmine.

>>51570235
Why would you not immediately assume the figurative meaning, especially considering that art? The flavor text is a poem, for heaven's sake.

>>51570474
>"To Chandra, changing the world was only incidental to avenging her father."

>>51566065
first is bad, "great generosity" is overdone and weirdly nonliteral in an otherwise matter-of-fact sentence
the second and third one are decent
>>51566739
Semicolons go between independent clauses. "the mantle of" is superflous and confusing to boot, and so is "maker of her father's memory." The guy killed her dad, this only communicates that if you knew it beforehand.

>>51567508
>criticizes M12 Goblin Tunneler flavor text for not sounding dumb enough, not including "Tun-Tug's last words"
>next sentence, complains that goblin lore is only being about goblins dying anymore
Are you fucking kidding me?

>>51576652
i meant legendary goblins

>>51566260
I think it's more of a Godwin law thing

>>51576312
>it boring, flat, and doesnt make sense.
>boring
How so?
>flat
What does that even mean?
>It's not even dumb but funny, it's just kinda there
What does that mean? I find it clever.
>There is no punchline
>What is a one-liner?

>>51576704
Post an example of M12 flavor text that you consider objectively 'clever' and please explain why it's objectively 'clever.'

>>51576693
So, all goblins are dumb cannon fodder, except for the ones with extra supertypes? By that standard, the M11 flavor text for Goblin Chieftain is the better one. He's not a legendary goblin, after all. Is that what you mean to say?

>>51576756
>post M12 flavor text you find clever
I already said that I found Goblin Tunneler's flavor text clever. The guy is good at tunneling. When somebody asks him how to get OVER the mountain, he responds that the best way is by tunneling THROUGH it -- Semantically, he's not answering the question, but in shorter terms he is suggesting that tunneling through would be a better route than any possible way over the mountain. He's suggesting this because, as noted before, he seems pretty good at tunneling. I can't believe that I have to explain this.

>objectively clever
It might just be best for you to leave English flavor text judgments to people who have picked up a book since high school.

>>51576838
You're the one getting offended by other people finding it to be dumb.

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>>51576898
>u mad bro?

>>51576939
Well, you are calling people 'fucking children' over the flavor text of a fantasy-based card game whose primary demographics is kids.

It's pretty evident you're sort of mad.

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>>51566904
>>51576838
I have to agree that this is a case of actual good flavortext.

For proof, lets look at an example that isn't a goblin.

>>51576963
Complaining about everything, regardless of what you supposedly want, is childish.
>print goblins dying, being dumb
>wtf wizards stop disrespecting gobbos >:(
>print goblins being skilled, not dying
>wtf wizards this isn't even funny why isn't he dying >:(
It's the same as giving a toddler a toy and watching them pitch a fit because they arbitrarily don't want that toy anymore. That's childish behavior, and letting you know that you're acting like a child is letting you (and anyone reading) know that your opinions have no value because they're just arbitrary.

>inb4 opinions ARE arbitrary!
No, opinions are supposed to have substance depending on taste, e.g.,
>I like dumb goblins, I think they're funny. Smart goblins don't fit with what I like about goblins.
>I like smart goblins, I think they're cool. Dumb goblins just make them into one-note joke characters.

>>51565479
See, I always thought the first iteration was a tad purple and grandiose, ESPECIALLY for fucking goblins.

>>51577071
I could still challenge all of the statements you have listed by incessantly asking why.

For example:
>Why do you think dumb goblins are funny? Why do smart goblins not fit with what you like about goblins?
>Why do you think smart goblins are cool? Why do you think that dumb goblins are just one-note joke characters?

And then I could ask why regarding your responses as well. You can't build an argument by just repeating 'why do you think that' over and over again.

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>>51577104
I agree. But, I also agree that the second flavor text is downright awful, so I prefer the first. If they'd just maybe cut out a bit of the first one it'd be perfect. The last line, alone, for example, would be pretty cool -- I've never gotten the impression that even the smarter goblins ever gave a shit about anything like "legacy" or being "heirs" of anything.

>>51577145
There's too much dignity in it. Goblins can be dangerous, goblins can set fire to your village and gnaw the flesh off your ankles and shiv you with a rusty piece of scrap metal, but they'll do it with snot dried on their upper lip and without stringing together a working sentence. They don't have dignity in heaps.

>>51577144
>I could still challenge all of the statements you have listed by incessantly asking why.
You know what else is childish? Incessantly asking why. And that's not a problem: opinions are backed up with material. The first guy grew up with dumb goblins and likes them more because they fit his sense of humor. The second guy got sick of all the dumb goblin jokes having essentially the same themes. Saying "why" isn't going to change any of that, nor should it.

But here's the problem. Your tastes appear to contradict each other, which is something that ought to be explained. Otherwise, there's no point in paying attention to your taste in the first place, because you don't like anything and have no reasoning behind how you think.

>>51576767

not all goblins have to be dumb, its just that going from a speech about being a proud and passionate race to "me smash! less words!" is kinda pushing the childlike idiot side, instead of a race that has a cheap worth of life. with goblin tunelers you go from "dig those tunnels, casualties be damned!" to "DIG, DIG, DIG, DIG, DIG, DIG, DIE!"


look at mizzix and daretti. both started out as underdogs that used theirs wits and cunning to get what they want. they aint dumb, but they were treated as such. grenzo looks like a big dumb brute, but hes got street smarts.

>>51572693
Japan has ruined me.

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>>51569214
>>51572715
He does his job offscreen. It's why they're base of operations is on Ravnica in Jace's sanctum. He spent the months after Shadows Innistrad recovering and working, and he spent the entire first half of Kaladesh chained to his desk by Lavinia.
Because a story of Jace trying to fill out forms would be boring as shit.

>>51569396
OLD flavor text Jace is a cunt. He's gotten better since the Gatewatch was brought to center, now he can act like Jace on the cards. He was always a pretty calm dork, never a
>*Fade in*
>*Counters your spell*
>*Swishes cape*
>"I feign interest."
>*Was really an illusion*

>>51577212
Funnily enough, I only entered the thread because I found issue with your arguing technique.

Incessantly asking why is exactly what you were doing. >>51576704 doesn't like the new text for Goblin Tunneler because he thinks it's boring, flat and doesn't make sense. That was his response to you asking 'why' then you proceeded to dissect every other section of the guy's post as ask 'why' about that afterwards. You were engaging in exactly the sort of technique that you're calling childish.

And that's as useful as asking why dumb goblins fit the first guy's sense of humor after growing up and why the second guy got sick of all of the goblins.

>>51565380

I do not recall that flavor text being anywhere near later long or stupid. Is that an edit or a reprint?

>>51577196
thats just the classic goblin, there are many planes and different kinds. mirrodin are metallic, zendikar are stony, tarkir are little yetis.

look at lorwyn. their main shtick is that they are sensory fiends and have a big "family" with their own set rules, which is to absolutely share everything. they will grab a pie because it smells new and they want to share it with their kin. the fact they are stealing doesnt even enter their minds, they just dont think of the consequences. they arent really malicious and have good intentions. they dont go out of their way to do harm, they just happen to bring harm along with them.

>>51575859
I'm almost sure those are Depeche Mode lyrics.

>>51577643

It's from Romeo and Juliet.

>>51572288
>inevitable Phyrexia showdown.
Which they will win, and then everyone lives happily every after except for me, since most likely then not, all the new sets will be shit.

>>51577058
You can go across the dunes while soaring above.
You cannot go OVER the mountain while digging THROUGH it.
This is an "a diamond dozen" situation. The goblin thinks it's being clever repeating something he's heard in his own words while not making sense.

>>51577673
All purple prose leads back to the source.

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>>51570354
You realise what this is, I hope

>>51577537
My last reply was shitty and mostly based on semantics. Let me have another wack at it. You have a point: incessantly asking "why" is something that resembles what I was doing. But asking for elaboration is essential for developing an understanding of a position. Asking "why" is useful to a point for determining the depth of an opinion, which can be useful for determining how seriously to take it.

If you ask "Why do you like dumb goblins?" and the other fellow says "Because I think they're funny," that's a reason. If he has a reason for why he thinks dumb goblins specifically are funny, that's another layer. But if he just says "It's not funny," and isn't capable of articulating why it's not funny, then he's done a very mediocre job of forming an opinion.

The person I'm talking to here has come to seemingly contradictory opinions. Asking him to elaborate was intended to dig at that, but as it turned out his opinions had no depth at all: Goblin Tunneler's flavor text was "flat" because it was "flat," which is bad because... well, we know it's bad, whatever it is. I see no reason to value a well-thought out position the same as a knee-jerk one from someone who seems literally incapable of introspection.

>>51577537
>>51577935
>>51578053


its like i get the joke, im just not laughing. he didnt need to explain the line, i just thought the line could've used more 'juice' and not be so plain.

i like that goblins can be dumb and funny, they can have a drive to an end but not a practical means to do so makes them funny. theres a card that has a line like "imma lift this rock, and if my arms dont rip off, imma get HUGE". yeah basically one gets stronger by lifting heavy thing, but he is oversimplified the means and is comically overdoing, that makes it funny and adorable. but i dont like it when people think ALL goblins on EVERY plane of existence boils down to "children that like to stab and sing the smash smash song". being simple minded is different than being retarded. ravinica has both extremes. gruul is what most people think of, and izzet shows they can be intelligent and even geniuses.

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>>51569174
Hard to believe that this is the same artist.

>>51578263
Even artists are tired as fuck of the jacetice league. If they wanted to draw the same characters over and over they'd be comic artists.

>>51576432
The majority of MtG art is churned out according to very specific demands from a very rigid stick-up-the-ass art director.

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I can't decide if this is too edgy or not.

>>51578322
just edgy enough, you have to have some of that old-time edgyness. It's a charm point

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I don't think that flavor text as a whole has gotten measurably worse. The more character-focused storytelling does lend itself to garbage like pic related, though.

>>51576579
This is way better.

>>51572693
I can't decide if this is cute or knot.

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delicious Odyssey

>>51578497
I like both Mortify

>>51562760
Not enough trannies or dykes. :^)

>>51572288

Phyrexia have been my favourite villains since they first appeared. I swear to fucking god if they get punked like the Eldrazi by the Jacetice league of all things then I'm done with the story for this damn game.

The best decision Wizards ever made was having New Phyrexia win. It actually gave some weight to the risks that were at play, for whole blocks afterwards.

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>FTV: Lore
>New text is less story based

>>51575832
Did you? He's talking about character deaths, the only death that matters.

>>51569766
Well, that's to be expected when they say they want players to understand the story entirely from just reading cards. You're basically saying "let's take a novel-length story, but you can only describe it in segments of single sentences, and you can only describe actions that can be put on a card."

>>51569161
but that isn't Ajani

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Richard Garfield was talking to a man who was designing his own TCG. The man expressed great admiration for Magic, but said that he would avoid the mistakes Magic had made - like "the overpowered card."

Garfield asked what he meant, expecting him to answer "Ancestral Vision" or "Time Walk". Instead, he said "Orinthopter." Ever since, the idea of zero-mana creatures being overpowered has been a meme in Magic R&D. This card's flavor text is a reference to that meme.

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>>51579765
I love the big cat, but he got some exposition filled duds in the oh-so-flavorful world of Kaladesh

>>51580662
I too read Maro's last article.

>>51565643
>Named Planeswalkers are poison meme.
Quick - name the guardsman that was the center of the shitty Ravnica stories without looking it up.

...

I said without looking it up. You're lying.

>>51581237
what point are you even trying to make?

>>51581237

Agrus Kos.

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>>51581237
>shitty Ravnica stories
Can you imagine going through life with taste this shitty?

>>51572693
How long has white been getting bears with upside?

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>>51582215

>Few things motivated Chandra to her fullest: Rage and Patricide.

>>51582562
thats not really a bear because it has double white casting cost. usually bear means one colored mana and one generic

>>51580829
i dislike the phrasing here

i'd prefer:
>When Baral constructed his trap for Chandra, he did not account for the arrival of a large axe-wielding cat man.

the idea that he would know what a "leonin" is detracts from his implied surprise. ending the phrase with the bit about the "twin-headed axe" makes the axe seem like the most important element rather than ajani.

>>51566648
>his nuwalker pets
He doesn't even touch the story any more. Entirely different department. That's the problem.

>>51583046
Well, fine. Since about Darksteel, then.

Still, cheap value creatures has always been a thing in white.

>>51579086
No one even mentioned the subject until you did /pol/.

>>51583653
/pol/ is obsessed with trannies, homosexual men, and african male genitalia. I'm glad we have a containment board for those perverts.

>>51583725
Why don't they just admit to themselves that they belong in either /d/ or /lgbt/. They'd be much better off to just accept themselves.

>>51581237
Wait, you mean Agrus Kos? He's that asshole who stopped based Momir Vig from bringing about the genetic singularity! Fuck that guy.

>>51583653
>>51583725
>>51584068
Is /tg/ completely incapable of detecting irony?

>>51584495
If they were saying "Not enough trannies or dykes." ironically, that would mean that they would be saying that they either don't think there should be more or that there are too many. The responses to that statement would necessarily require that /tg/ detected irony. In other words, come up with an argument that's more than a meme buzzword.

>>51577483
>He's gotten better since the Gatewatch was brought to center
This. New-Jace may be a bit milktoast, but he's not an asshole.

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PICK A CARD YOU LIKE WITH SHIT FLAVORTEXT

MAKE SOMETHING BETTER

>>51566065
>>51566739
>>51567901
>>51568080
>>51568091
>>51570474
>>51576579
>>51582998
THAT'S THE FUCKING SPIRIT SON

SO LONG AS IT'S BETTER THAN THE ORIGINAL YOU DONE GOOD

ALT MODE: GIVE A (NOT M13/CONSPIRACY MURDER) CARD WITHOUT FLAVORTEXT, FLAVORTEXT

>>51585489
><unintelligible beatboxing>
>-Jace Beleren

It's ok, I didn't need my sides anyway

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>>51585489
I think that it's a travesty of justice that split-cards don't have flavour text.
I've decided to present my own take on the matter.

>Some say the world will end in...
>Others say in...

>>51585571
Does it make me a horrible person that I want to listen to that song, just so I can lose my sides again.

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>>51585489
>that last one
>unintelligible beatboxing

haha holy shit, im having quite the giggle

>>51570406
>And the new WotC CEO is desperate to enter the "esport" world with Magic.
Then include codes in the fucking packs like Pokemon does I fucking swear to God.

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>>51577145
Reminds me of that episode of Futurama.

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>"You speak as if you have the experience of years, but you are trying to solve the complications of eons. How many consequence of your plan can you fathom? How many that you can't?"

>>51585489
Thanksgiving though.

>>51585489
Don't do it, Avacyn! I have the high ground!

>>51585950
Fuck that's good

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Has there ever been GOOD flavovtext on a counter-spell?!

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>>51585895

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>>51586114
There has been, its just rarely when it is what the caster says to their target.

>>51568948
Why would they keep the text that references somebody no one knows about anymore?

>>51586254
The second printing only came about 3 years after Invasion.

>>51586254
because it's evocative. You don't need to know what Barrin and Tolaria are to know that this is a powerful man who lost his family and fucked shit up because of that.

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>>51586114
I like the newer text on rewind.

>>51586233
>Last Word
>good flavor text
You're kidding, right?

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>>51586114
>>51586233
>>51586289

best counterspell flavor text coming through

>>51586306
Is Jaya that based in the books, or only in the cards?

>>51586271
Yeah so why would they keep the text? Do you think new players right now know what Ravnica is or who Ral Zarek is beyond "that one UR planeswalker?"

>>51586114
Literally all of them you pleb.

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Is this good flavortext or bad flavortext? I can't tell.

>>51586396
It's good, "zen master is an ass" is a time-honored cliché.

>>51586396
>>51586414
Yeah, considering who the Jeskai are (or were, I suppose) it fits really well.

>>51580829
So much cringe for this one

>>51585950
it's over, you mean

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>>51586114
i kind of like exclude

as far as "quip from the caster" ones go at least

>>51580829
>>51586637
>Baral's trap took into account all known variables. Then came Ajani.

Better?

>>51580829
>>51586824
How about
>Baral's trap tool into account all known variables. If only he'd known about Ajani.

>>51586857
It seems more in line with their trend of "punchy" and "humorous" flavor texts, and it's certainly better than the actual one. I just equate brevity with badassery, so I tried to keep it as short as possible.

>>51586857
>Baral had laid a perfect trap, but it wasn't for Ajani

>>51586914
wait, second pass:
>Baral had set a perfect trap, but he hadn't set it for Ajani.

>>51586956
>Baral laid the perfect trap for the pyromancer. Unfortunately, it wasn't her who sprung it.

That's not quite it, but we're getting there.

>>51587027
>Baral built the better mousetrap, but Ajani was a giant cat.

>>51587067
>Beral was all "Haha bitch" but Ajani was like "Not even."

>>51587087
>Ajani made Beral his BITCH with his double-headed axe

>>51587103
>Beral took the knot.

>>51587103
>Ajani AXED Baral a question

>>51587115
>Beral and Ajani's wedding is on Tuesday. Quite frankly, Chandra is not sure she will find an appropriate gift in time. If push comes to shove she'll get them a Cracker Barrel gift card or matching aprons or some shit.

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>>51587115
>>51587169

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>>51587169
>>51587115
>>51587103
God fucking dammit, stop.
My sides don't need this!

>>51587027
>>51587067
>>51587087
>>51587103
>>51587115
>>51587169
/tg/'s fucking train of thought is something else

>>51586254
Back to bed, kiddo.

>>51587067
That's some Legacy playable flavor text right there. Shame you don't work for Wizards, and I mean that

>>51577104
What, goblins aren't allowed the full range of human emotions, pride, and self actualization?

Is it because they're an inferior race, who can't fully live life, and exist only for our amusement?

'cause if you think goblins shouldn't exhibit complex emotions and individual character, you're a disgusting racist.

>>51579666
and that's the problem. THey shouldn't be telling the story like this, they should be implying the existance of a story with individually good bits.

If they want the full story, write a damn magic novel. They exist.

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>>51562760
Alright guys, this thread was fun, but I think I have the best flavor text here

>>51587494
That's reminder text, but "The land continues to burn." is top tier flavor text.

>>51587494
That's reminder text, not flavor text. I also don't get why it's always heralded as the coolest thing ever, they likely just wanted to shorten the length of an already wordy card so they just said "burn" instead of spelling it out

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>>51587566

>>51586803
Teferi's a pretty cool dude

when's he getting his spark back

>>51587621
Hopefully not soon, since he'd inevitably become the token black character

>>51570488
>There is a Blessed vs Cursed incoming
The hell are you talking about? Blessed vs. Cursed was a Duel Deck that came out last year.

>what have happened of the Innistrad after Emrakul summon
Humans have no force but Sigarda, a handful of angels that didn't get turned, and themselves to keep them safe from all the horrors on Innistrad. Very little was detailed but outlook isn't good.

>>51587621
Never ever, unfortunately.
The only exception is when they reveal that the Raven Man is actually Mishra

>>51587554
>>51587566
"That's the joke" - Rainier Wolfcastle

>>51581237
Fuck you it was Argus Kos, I still remember and I didn't even read the Ravnica stories.

>>51581237
>even implying forgetting Agrus Kos

You're a cockgobbler you are

>>51579488
Holy fuck that flavortext is horrible. ..


Suddenly I'm happy I have a foiled darksteel memnarch. That ftv one looks like shit

>>51577555
That's an edit.

>>51581237
>Guardsman
>Not the detective/bouncer/drill-sergeant/ghost

I didn't even play back then or read the story and I know this shit.

>>51587670
If that chess game was suppossed to be foreshadowing of the future, Emrakul sealed herself in the moon for the sole purpose of using it to control all the inhabitants of Innastrad for a new Eldrazi army.

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Phyrexians have the best quotes.

>>51588368
The chess game was Emrakul explaining the definition of futility to wonderboy. It's more likely Emrakul was feeling the loss of the other two titans, or more aptly, the loss of their affect on the multiverse.

Emrakul is growing another Kozimog and Ulalek confirmed

>>51566065
>Chandra's anger was a fire, a literal fire, she was setting people on fire. She MAD.

>>51566841
jeez that is bad its like they were so ashamed of the joke they decided to go with depth instead (something they can be good at at times) but it just warped round into retarded.

>>51565643
Thats not bad it is informative without having pointless details it is only a problem if it is all like that.

>>51569174
Okay don't get me wrong Clint's a nice guy and everything but literally he has the laziest backgrounds. I guarantee you this one is just a straight paintover of a photo with some random photoshopped gears on it.

>>51568980
this some things should be kept

>>51569214
jaces problem is his flavor text always makes him out as more of an arsehole then the actual storys have him as.

>>51578290
>If they wanted to draw the same characters over and over they'd be comic artists.
this

>>51578313
god i dont mind the house style but you need a few things to be in a different style or it gets unbearable.

>>51578497
I dont mind the sorin text it is kind of funny in its absurdity but they could have put it on a different card so we could get the classic flavor

>>51579488
why would you do that if it was the other way around and this was the old text with the old one the new It would be fine but you cannot make a vault about lore then remove the fucking lore.

>>51586396
I think it works best when compared with the way that under dragon rule there became only the one path.

>>51587494
I hope if they ever reprint it assuming they change the formatting to no longer have the reminder text they actually give it that as flavor

>>51586774
I didn't actually look up the quote.

>>51587672
I thought Mishra died like 12000 years ago.

>>51586254
If you don't understand why you need to grow up

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I understand why they had to change the flavor text for new phyrexia but why all the other times as well.

>>51588397
Fuck the Phyrexians, they ruined Mirrodin

>>51589426
Fuck the Dragonlords, they ruined Tarkir

return to lorwyn when?

>>51591146
Didn't Shadowmoor fuck over the setting?

>>51591217
How so? Oona's out, no more great aurora and the day/night cycle is restored. We still don't have many details on how the two versions of the plane merged together, getting info on that would be a decent plot hook (or at least it would be if they ever stopped focusing on the adventures of our merry band of planeswalkers).

>>51586114
Last Word.

>>51591030
>Fuck the Dragonlords, they ruined Tarkir
If we ever return to Tarkir the story will either be about how the khans overthrow the dragons, or they will already have had their positions usurped.

The khans were way too popular and the dragons way to impopular for them to do anything else.

>>51591146
According to Mark right after return it Kamigawa because according to Wizards a set with mechanics that don't quite work poisons the setting and lore so badly players will be physically upset if you expose them to it

>>51591323
But Lorwyn was Tribal: The Plane, and MaRo has said that they won't ever to tribal again.

>>51591490
In which case, we'll never get a third Zendikar block.

>>51591588
That makes me sad i like tribal.

>>51591622
good

Zendikar is done, I don't want to go back to that boring plane again. Two times seems like enough for a plane in any case

>>51591636
Same here, and I love Lorwyn but missed out on building when it was current.

>>51585489
most of those are pretty garbage, though.

>>51591588
>they won't ever to tribal again
>we will never have a vedalken tribal
I don't like this feel

>>51591706
not every tribe needs tribal synergy, anon. Can't you just love them the way they are? In't it nice when you include a vedalken because you think they're cool or they're a good standalone card rather than because they just have tribal synergy?

>>51591728
Anon, there's a difference between adding a vedalken over a non-vedalken, and adding only vedalkens. I can easily do the former, but not the latter.

>>51591588
I thought he meant they won't ever do tribal spells again. We still get new cards with tribal synergies even now.

>>51591838
I think what the meant was that Innistrad style tribal will be the only kind of tribal support we'll get moving forward.

>>51591490
so? return sets always have new mechanics so who cares

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I loved when flavour texts were connected without being an exposition cringefest.

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>>51591706
I have an Aetherborn tribal right now. Plays sort of like Aristocrats. We have two lords in the form of Metallic Mimic and Midnight Entourage and I use Herald of Anguish as the finisher. Although if I wanted to stick 100% to the tribal Aetherborn Marauder might be better.

>>51591962
I believe there was a card with "five little goblins" on it, but I don't remember much about it. I'll have to search later.

>>51592733
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&flavor=+%5B%22little%20goblin%22%5D

Just 4 unfortunately.

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>>51562760
speaking of shitty new flavour text.

>>51593151
>"I-it's not like I want you to but in or anything!"

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>>51586114
i like it when counterspell has no flavour text. it keeps it simple and is more of a statement than having anything other than the effect on it. thay did this on wrath of god too and i love it the implication that there is just nothing left after to make flavour text of.

>>51593173

first he butts in then he nuts in

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>>51593303
Jace only has love for one waifu

>>51576509
Is he a royal assassin because he is royalty, because he kills royalty, or because he is hired by royalty?

>>51586289
[K I N G C R I M S O N I N T E N S I F I E S]

>>51593434
Definitely the third, but it could be the first and second as well.

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>>51593255
Huh. Know what? I agree. Some cards with huge impacts are a statement all their own.

>Not that I don't enjoy some flavor text sometimes.

>>51593476
but what if a card is already on the stack? this is confusing as fuck.

>>51593592
End the turn.

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>>51593592
Same as with Sundial of the Infinite

>>51585489

I was actually inspired for "good flavor text" for Anguished Unmaking, by the story. Not sure if I missed the bus for "better flavor text page" or not.

>"I am Avacyn. I am to protect."
>-Avacyn's last words

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>>51567508
>goblin lore
THIS is wisdom.

>>51586396
It's actually quite good. Not only does it capture the traditional smugness of Zen masters, it actually has a deeper meaning than is immediately apparent. It seems to me that he's not just saying, "Quite a lot!". The addition of "Then find more grains." makes it more like "I know of quite a lot, but there are even more than I can show you here."

Plus, it gels nicely with the actual Zen belief that there's not a single, universal path to enlightenment, and lessons must be tailored to the capabilities and needs of the student.

>>51578263
>candelabra of tawnos.jpg

was this art ever on a card, even online?

>>51587621

>We could have had Teferi be our token blue mage

>We would have had Phasing instead of all this milling bullshit

It hurts, /tg/

>>51593898
It's art for online.

>>51593966
phasing is a meme mechanic.

>>51593966
I don't think we could have, and I think the world is better for it. I don't even like mill that much, either.

>>51585489
"Evil blood leaves civil hands unclean."
For Ancient Grudge

>>51593983

Everything is a meme to you. Milling is the worst. It will never, EVER be viable.

Also Elspeth should have Banding mechanics.

>>51583116
See Darksteel-ish era (post 8th) was what I was imagining too, but Patrol Hound (>>51572693) was from quite a while before that. It probably wasn't the first either.

I also take exception to your tone, if you're going to act arrogant at least have the decency to be correct.

>>51593592
Cards on the stack get exiled

>>51568948
>Keldons
>Calling anyone with a palace (or former palace) "Sir"
I am irrationally angry now.

>>51586114
I like the one on counter spell. It just saying "no" is hilarious.

Also I believe Jace feigning interest at chandra's pyromancy is also suitably dickish for him

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When I think bad flavor I think Seventh Edition. They decided to make everything super fucking generic for the sake of attracting new players, which is practically the opposite of what they should have done. Is turning creepy pale monocle elves who threaten to break your bones into... this actually supposed to be more appealing? That's not even getting into how bad the art itself was. All of it.

>>51586280
This shit! The best part of flavortext is to get you to ask and try to learn more about the setting and the events that are happening on these cards. Now it's like a poorly constructed and poorly written comic book playing out.

>>51593592
there's a paragraph and a half of reminder text to explain what the fug that means on the non-foil printing (IIRC)

Which is why the foil version of the card is way gouda moneydollars.

>>51593476
>>51593652
what happens if you use it in combat phase?

>>51591362

I'd really like if "Rebels of Tarkir" had dragons joining in with the Khans. Like, Dromka dragons loses a group of humans they particularly likes and discovers about Kin-Trees in an effort to reconnect, Ojutai Dragons discovers there is more than one path and Ojutai has been denying the entire idea, Silumgar dragons grows tired of their decadence and want to be hunters again, Kolagarn dragons see that honor among themselves actually makes the whole stronger, Atarka dragons learn to live beyond the moment and beyond hunger. Just stuff that brings them into the original Wedges.

I'd also like to see Sarkhan really conflicted about the entire situation. On one hand, dragons! On the other hand the dragons aren't really all that different from the Khans themselves and with dragons joining humans in rebelling that means the Dragon Lords aren't necessarily the right thing for Tarkir.

That's what I'd like to see, anyways.

>>51591030
Mirrodin was a shit plane for cunts. After what happened to Glissa, Slobad, and Bosh everyone there deserved what they got.

>>51594349
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Ending_the_turn

Holy shit anon, does everything have to be delivered to you on a silver platter? Takes about one minute to find the rules governing this shit, you moron.

>>51594439
A way to go back to what we loved without having to find a contrived reason to undo the time travel?

Good idea, have a cookie.

>>51584736
An interesting thing I find, and I wonder if this is intentional, is that Jace now really embodies blue even moreso than before. Mark did a podcast about allied colored recently and ended it with something about how all colors have an internal conflict, and blue's was about perfecting the self or society. Jace joined the Gatewatch so he could learn more about multiverse and solve every world's problems and puzzles. But by abandoning his post as the Living Guildpact, his quest to improve his own knowledge is interfering with his duty to serve Ravnica. It falls pretty neatly into place and I wonder how intentional that is.

>>51595070
To be fair Wizards already planted those exact seeds. There's already hints and and tidbits about the alternate past in the Dragons present that the humanoids are aware of or are being made aware of. We know there is a secret sect of Dromoka clansmen who still maintain kintrees, and that a group of Atarka shamans have hidden their soothsaying ability and have a secret information network. I wouldn't be surprised if for example some Kolaghan humanoids rediscover he Edicts of Illagra to unite some rebels under its text or whatever. To be honest I don't really know what makes Sultai all that green (I think in context it was the idea of survival of the fittest, but that was more like black's kind of survival of the fittest in context already, or maybe more specifically it's the idea natural born leaders or something)

>>51594541
i didn't really care enough to google it. thanks for doing it for me

>>51586332
Jaya's like Chandra if Chandra was good.

>>51593151
i like this one. it reads well and gives a lot of character to both jace and chandra in a small package. i'm not wild about the guildpact or whatever but this is good writing.

>>51587494
i've never seen this before. very strange. not necessary reminder text at all.

>>51595403
kill yourself.

>>51594032
>It will never, EVER be viable.
Never EVER? Painter grindstone wasn't a thing anymore?
Plus there was that "attempt" from Origins to make a mill deck, although it was only for standard and never panned out. Also there's the new altar of the brood deck for extended formats.

>>51594439
If anything, they should have made the separate clans function differently. In Khans, they all felt unique. By the time Dragons came out, it turned into "they're all ruled by dragons and the dragons of different clans all act the same, except I guess this one is a LITTLE more dickish".

You'd have thought that the abzan and jeskai would integrate with the dragons more, and it was KIND of true, but not in a meaningful way - more just to show off that yeah Silumgar was a dick haha look at black being evil guys