What would be interesting alternate history/alternate world

Steampunk is pretty cool.

Too bad it triggers so many people who just post autistic rants about "cogfops" and "sluts in corsets".

>>51557887

one where the north american continent is divided into 20+ european stile states + russia has alaska

One where Australia is habitable

>>51557960
Too outlandish.

One where (for whatever reason) the Kingdom of Judea never fell, continuing to be a Middle Eastern "trading power" well into the Middle Ages or possibly even modern period, a la Egypt. This will naturally affect the nature of monotheism in the world, as it's unclear whether Christianity would've had as much of an impact if the Romans haven't curbstomped Judea like they did in our own timeline. Could be it would remain basically limited to the region, with the rest of the world remaining mostly polytheist.

If Akechi was able to defeat Hideyoshi

>>51557887
Humans arrive in the Americas 3,000 years sooner, which would put their technology more-or-less on par with that of Europe when Columbus first discovers America (if indeed he even does - maybe Americans make their way over to Europe first).

For better lulz, make the Americas settled 5,000 years sooner. Various Age of Sail native American nations thereby encounter and invade Europe and Africa while the Roman Empire is at its height.

I been toying with the possibility of a world where the various Native American cultures survived mostly independently, but thus far I've not been really able to make it work (even GURPS Alternate Earths lampshades how difficult that is when discussing Ezcalli - the only way to allow the Americas to survive contact with the Old World would have to involve massive changes at a very early point in both continents' history, and if you make those there's no telling how either would realistically develop. You certainly wouldn't see any recognizable cultures at the time you'd normally think about them)

>>51557887
Rome never fell. Make it modern though - legionaries with assault rifles and the like.

>>51558058 >>51558077
Huh, hive mind.

>>51558102
No. >>51558058 is just retarded.

>>51557887
One where polytheistic Mongols ruled most of Asia, Natives ruled America and wildlife mostly ruled Africa with fragments of society inbetween. All of these cultures developed culture and technology independently without the urge to explore others. Australia is presumably uninhabitable.

>>51557887
Fantasy Napoleonic Wars.

>>51558088
>legionaries with assault rifles and the like.

Which wouldn't be any different in looks, function, or most likely name even from current day soldiers. The early republican legions where not the Imperial legions were not the late proto-dark age legions, and there's a good few years of ever developing circumstances ever forcing them to change if you want Rome to just not fall the next year instead, on top of ever increasingly fickle whims of fashion.

Serious use of steam and water wheels starting in ancient Babylon

>>51557887
Anything with an additonal continent or a larger earth with more land.

Always interesting to see how Atlantis would change human history or even if certain continents were connected still like Eurasia to Alaska or if Australia had Mu still connected to it.

How about just a story set in a fantastical version of late pre-history/first history? Like in Doggerland or Mesopotamia? I never see that anywhere.

>>51558416
Or Roman's seeing the potential for steam engines for things besides toys

>>51557887
A game set in our world (in any modern era, pick your poison really), but if nukes either have never or can never be created because plot magic.

I'm curious where we'd be if the whole "global deterrent," thing wasn't really a thing.

>>51558456
I think it would make more sense for the Chinese to really do it. Partly because they didn't have slavery in the same way and partly because their iron and steel production was far greater.

>>51559193
Well, Israel wouldn't exist, that's for sure.

>>51557887

Islam never happens.

>>51560549
Alternatively, Islam conquers Europe.

>>51558456
They'd need to get a lot better at metallurgy - boiler explosions were a problem for ages IRL, and without boilers that can withstand more than trivial pressures or even just big sheets of metal Rome (or anyone else) could only flirt with steam power

>Ferdinand's assassination fails
>Napoleon stays in Moscow until spring
>Zenobia rebukes Aurelian's attack
>Mongols reach Japan without any storms

>>51560549
That doesn't sound plausible. Rather, try something like Muhammad or Khalid ibn Al-Walid is killed by an arrow in one of his early battles.

>>51559193
>WW2 ends in 1946 after a land operation in Japan, with several million more casualties
>War with the Soviet Union starts shortly after
>Soviet Union loses some of its positions in Eastern Europe, but occupies Japan
>another war breaks out in the 60s
>US is forced to withdraw from the USSR, but China occupies the Far East
>USSR collapses in the 70s-80s

England gets completely wiped out by super-syphilis in 1690.

Ottomans collapse two centuries earlier, Imperial Russia rebuilds a bumbling and corrupt Second Byzantine Empire, no communism, no world wars, France doesn't fuck itself over funding America's wars, remains stable and prosperous and successfully prevents the formation of unified Germany, China remains a backwater imperialist shothole, USA forms into an irrelevant, isolationist shithole, half of the world is ruled by chinless mutants from the same extended family.

>>51558443
Doggerland isn't that well known, and even if it where anything set there would be made up since we have absolutely no archealogical remains from its time, or any written records of its cultures. Nor do people know what the landscape was like.

Mesopatamia doesn't get enough credit, though. How come people give Egypt all the attention when talking about ancient civilizations?

>>51561106
We know Doggerland was one of the richest habitats of that time. There would have been almost no competition. And then there was the slow flooding. But yeah, the Mesopotamians were too interesting.

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>>51557887
The Peace of Amiens holds, cementing Napoleon's conquest of Europe. He doesn't invade Russia and founds a stable dynasty. Later, colonialism into what is now the Third World ensues.

The setting itself would take place in an alternate 1920s where the Great War is about to break out - a fight between the British, French and Russian empires against a massive American-aided uprising of their colonial subjects across Asia and Africa.

>>51561106
Because Egypt lasted mainly. Egypt kept on trucking for literally thousands of years when civilizations around them rose and succumbed to cultural drift or collapse.

>>51561212
>Netherlands is French
plz no

>>51561224
Because those others were surrounded by hostile nomads and empires. South of Egypt was fuck-all and west of it was desert. And no naval force from the north could invade them as most lived inland near the Nile. They did get invaded btw, their enemies just took over for a while.

>>51561061
>half of the world is ruled by chinless mutants from the same extended family.
This is our reality. They're called Jews.

The dinosaurs didn't go extinct but were in fact incredibly intelligent and advanced, and so left on a space-borne migration to avoid mass extinction. And they came back towards the beginning of the dark ages, conquered/colonized the Americas, and this is now what Columbus finds.

>>51561212
I doubt a Bonarpate-led turbocharged French colonial empire would ever let the US grow much. Plus Louisiana was sold after your point of divergence, it might just not happen, making it all worse for the US.

>>51560395
>>51561025
I'd like expanding on this a bit. What nations would wind up coming up in all of this? What nations that are major powers now wind up becoming backwaters because they no longer have (potential) nuclear capability? What does this mean for the areas around them?

Anyone good at making maps?

>>51557887
Lincoln lets the US South secede the Union without fighting--or giving up after a few sharp defeats so a prolonged war isn't something we live out--setting up a potential precedent for a balkanized America along social, cultural, and political lines. What does this mean for the world as a whole?

>>51563880
The CSA go from recession to depression, eventually join the Central Powers soon after US troops landed in France in 1917 and backstabs the US.

>>51563936
In this history Germany would have won WW1
Imagine such a beautiful world
In our timeline the world is run by banks and corporations

>>51564746
>Play Kaiserreich.
>Germany won WW1.
>beautiful world
Har har.

>>51564746
..you think the US had any effect on WW1?

>>51564983
Are you saying millions fresh soldiers getting into battle while everyone else, Germans included, was borderline mutinous had no effect at all?

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>>51564786
>Kaiserreich
I'm gonna ask this here because /gsg/ is more interested in shitposting and grossgermaniums than actual discussion, and /tg/ replaces every other board.

I've been playing DH for a few days now, and I don't understand the big deal. This is supposed to be the end-all-be-all of Hearts of Iron games, right? I understand that the combat mechanics are much better than in either HoI 4 or in HoI 3, but as far as I can see both diplomacy and espionage are utterly useless. They require loads of investments and give extremely minimal returns with a high chance of failure to the point where you're best off ignoring both of them (removing an entire dimension from the game).

So does everyone see DH as the best HoI game in spite of its diplomatic shortcomings, or do I simply not understand how diplomacy in DH works?

>>51565030
muricans always overestimate their roles in the world wars. The American soldiers had no idea why they were there. Their morale was at rock bottom and only a small minority even shot back. They lost huge numbers too. But Germany lost due to the civil war/revolution going on there.

>>51557887
Fantasy modern times with Eberron type portals to other realms with no post-apocalyptic bullshit.
Invading fantastical monsters, tourists and antagonists are of course, in it.
Airships and floating islands included.

>>51561061
Funding the American Revolution was only part of the problem, extensive pre-existing debt, food shortages, and internal discontent would all need to be addressed as well.

>>51558120
Sooo Flintloque?

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Pic related.

Also a world where events like the plague are a regular occurence and the disease can remain dormant and suddenly mutate. People are REALLY xenophobic and paranoid, even more than now. People wear veils, lots of dark rituals and phony medicine.

Also a world where anti-ballistic fibers and alloy concepts and materials were able to keep pace with firearms technology leaving melee combat still relevant and guns getting more and more obnoxious. Power armor is feasible and much sleeker. Tanks can be made as fast as lamborghinis and some aircraft use collisions to kill enemy aircraft.

>>51566084
Where the hell can I find the PDFs for this? The archive on the PDF Share Thread isn't giving me anything to work with.

>>51563880
The CSA rapidly falls to internal competition and ineffective government structure. After balkanizing, the individual states quickly become subordinate partners to various world powers, many with the USA, and the South as a whole is quickly boxed in by the expanding USA. Lack of infrastructure and industrial development sees the former CSA fall into economic obsolescence, followed by economic collapse as soil nutrient depletion and the boil weevil destroy cotton production.

>>51561061
>irrelevant, isolationist shithole
If anything the French and Spanish would consume the Thirteen Colonies and British Canada into their own American empires and we'd see centuries of war between them for control of the Midwest and its god tier agriculture and river system, Appalachian coal, etc. Spain would probably win that fight thanks to control of Florida and Cuba. Then you'd have Russian incursions from the Northwest and more centuries of war.

Really, the British Empire and a USA that quickly expanded and solidified its gaina are the ONLY way colonization of North America wouldn't have resulted in half a millennium of bloodshed.

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>>51566301

Nowhere unless you buy them, as they were only recently released in PDF form. Although there is a free pdf that only has the rules for it.

>>51564983
I'm a New Zealander and I can give you a nonbiased perspective: Without USA WW1 would have led to a stalemate
Europe would have lost their empires, but the European nations would have roughly the same borders as they had before the war minus all their empires

>>51563880
Harry Turtledove has a series like that. The Americas are on opposite sides of the first world war, Germany wins thanks to Northern aid and the Confederacy is the bombed out shithole that gives rise to Hitler

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>>51558231
Well that's no fun. Although the setting doesn't exactly have to be modern. It could be last century when "modern" weapons and armor were still in development.

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A world where the Aztecs make it to the space age but are still really big on sacrifices. Fueling constant war. When the other nations get tired of their shit and triple alliance the aztecs out of the solar system, the space Mexicans just go raid weaker alien empires

>>51567212
How does modern knowledge of astronomy affect the whole sun worship thing? Like the idea of guarding the sun as it goes through the underworld falls apart when you know about orbits and stars

>>51566862
>I'm a New Zealander and I can give you a nonbiased perspective: Without USA WW1 would have led to a stalemate

No. If the US didn't come in the Entente would have lost. Not because of some "hurr durr Amerika stronk" bullshit, but because the US was on the verge of raising lending/collateral requirements to a level where the Entente wouldn't have been able to borrow any more money. When the US entered the war in April of '17, government loans were made with no lending/collateral requirements.

Prior to the US entry, all US loans to the Entente were being made by banks and other private institutions and those lenders had to follow Federal Reserve lending/collateral requirements. While the requirements waxed and waned as the Entente's performance did the same, by December of '16 the Federal Reserve recommended a drastic increase in those requirements and Wilson agreed. The next round of loans was due for negotiation in May of '17 and the UK, which was basically funding the entire Entente effort by that time, wasn't going to borrow anything near to what the war effort needed.

The flow of food, munitions, small arms, raw materials, and thousands of other items was going to be drastically cut around the same time Russia collapsed and Germany began her strategic redeployment to the Western Front.

The Entente would most likely be asking for an armistice in late '17 or early '18.

>>51567022
>Harry Turtledove has a series like that

And it sucks.

If you want ideas for some interesting AH settings, check out alternatehistory DOT com

There's an active timeline there about Age of Discovery Europeans contacting an Australia with several Bronze Age-level civilizations.

>>51563431
They would revolt and join the glorious Umighty States just like Texas.

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>>51567435
That's a fascinating question. It could be any number of things. Modern astronomy could create a schism between the priest caste and the palace or the science caste. Or, a better option, their religion evolves. Maybe the underworld is another dimension, or a section of space the system will one day pass through. Sol is still sacred, and most be protected

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>>51558058
>>51558077
Not quite sure that would be the style of Native Americans.

I have a question, what would have happened if the americas were left to there own devices instead of getting fucked by spain?

>>51557887
The Roman Empire falls.
Hadrian's Wall, however, does not.

>>51567975
Yes and? Roman Britain wasn't taken over by people from the north, it was taken over by people from the sea.

>>51566360
>b-b-b-but the south will rise again

>>51567965
Smallpox still fucks them over. Other European powers show up instead of the Spaniards.

>>51567975
>Hadrian's Wall, however, does not.
It never did. You can visit it today.

>>51567812
Thanks for explaining that to me
I didn't know USA was involved financially before they deployed troops
If USA didn't deploy troops when the Entente couldn't borrow anymore money from USA, Germany and Austria would have wrecked the shit out of the Entente

>>51568024
>Smallpox still fucks them over. Other European powers show up instead of the Spaniards.

Exactly.

ONE man had smallpox in Cortes party. That's all it took to fuck over the Aztecs and others.

Thanks to native trading routes, smallpox arrived in Peru over a decade before Pizarro and triggered a civil war among the Inca.

Intermittent coastal contact and limited trading were enough to transmit diseases which basically depopulated New England a generation before the Pilgrims arrived.

From the perspective of the native Americans, Europeans were walking bio-weapons.

>>51568163
The way you get around this is simply saying that Native Americans have more genetic diversity, allowing significantly more Native Americans to survive initial contact.

>>51568132
>Thanks for explaining that to me

You're welcome.

>I didn't know USA was involved financially before they deployed troops

Very much so. The US basically fed the Entente and, as industry retooled, provided a shit ton of finished goods. Not "high tech" stuff like tanks, planes, and heavy artillery, but ordinary stuff like ammo, shell casings, munitions, etc.

Here's the funny bit, the US would have loaned and sold to the Central Powers too IF they'd been able to import the stuff they'd bought. Germany even built and used a cargo sub and planned on building more.

>If USA didn't deploy troops when the Entente couldn't borrow anymore money from USA, Germany and Austria would have wrecked the shit out of the Entente

Exactly. When you look at how close the Kaiserschlacht came to knocking the UK and France out of the war in early '18, it's easy to see how the same without offensives would have succeeded without all the US food, supplies, and other materials.

>>51568208

Genetic diversity isn't going to protect against smallpox, measles, etc.

one where the entirety of the landmasses of earth's northern hemisphere were rotated much farther south, maybe 1000-1500 miles or so. way more ariable land, especially in russia/canada.

WW1 with magic on all sides minus magitek WW2 America. Magic is different for each country. Britain is classical wizardry, France is wild magic powered by emotions, Russia is necromancy, Germany is full of warlocks, Italy is ritualistic, Ottomans summon beasts from myth, and Austria-Hungary is divine.

The below is total fantasy, but I feel could make for an interesting setting:

> After the bombs are dropped in 1945, weird shit starts to happen. Prior "holy" items, sites, and faith from all religions actually start to have minor miracles occur (healing of wounds, curing the blind/deaf, healing the paralyzed, etc.)

> Spirital shamanic rituals actually succeed in calling forth the dead to ask for guidance or to haunt a hated foe

> Witches and wiccan spells actually work on a physical level, leading to stuff as simple as controlling flames to inflicting gross diseases

> People start to develop psychokinetic abilities (telepathy, telekinesis, pyrokinesis, etc.)

> All the while the world still recovers from the end of WW2 and the beginning of the Cold War, as when the USSR starts its testing these isolated incidents become more commonplace

> Ends up being nuclear explosions are so powerful they're breaking the barrier between realities, letting 'magic' return to the world after a millenia of being sealed away by... something

>>51568617
>minus magister ww2 America
Wait, so America is at the tech level of it's WW2 self in 1916, but with magitek?

>>51568823
Yep. Everyone else has magic and bolt actions and some early SMGs, America has little to no magic but better guns.

>>51568314
Not 100%, but if Native Americans have a greater diversity of Human leukocyte antigens they would have an easier time weathering the various diseases from Europe. IRL, many groups of Native Americans had the same HLAs, meaning that certain specific strains of a disease (such as smallpox) could wipe a hole tribe out. With a greater diversity of HLAs, only some individuals from that tribe would get sick, which would mean a greater number of survivors.

>>51568851
I think your putting this too lowly
You basically gave america to make the nuke a fuckton bigger,more destructive,easier to use,and over all a better fuck you flag

>>51568995
Don't even need the nuke if you have the industrial base to mass produce things like the Pershing

>>51568682
>The below is total fantasy, but I feel could make for an interesting setting:

Nice rip off of Gurps Technomancer, Skippy.

Got anything original?

>>51568955
>hole

Hole... uh huh uh huh uh uh huh yeah yeah yeah

>>51568208
That isn't going to do anything. What they'd need is to have been raising and living in close quarters to livestock for thousands of years. You'd have to handwave in some species in the New World that'd be more amenable to taming and domestication but this still wouldn't do much as the initial rewards for pursuing this wouldn't really be worth the effort.

This is because the Americas are oriented on a north-south axis meaning they have to move through radically different climate bands which all require different crops, different livestock, and different approaches to survival. They'd need a proportionally much longer time span to develop the practices that could adapt to these differing climates. Eurasian peoples never had this problem because the landmass is on an east-west axis which means the climate changes very little over thousands of miles. This in turn means that that it's easy to spread since they don't really have to change much of anything and when they do encounter changes they are much more gradual.

So if you want to make it so the indigenous people of the Americas to survive they'd need a head start. Probably a few thousand years of one so they'd eventually have to resort to domestication of livestock and crops to extend the land's carrying capacity. Of course this would also mean they're likely more developed in other areas as well but since metal was more of a pain in the ass to get there it doesn't guarantee they'd be on the same parity as Europeans unless you wanted to be very generous with it.

>>51569108
Honestly, I've never read a GURPS book.

Nausscia Valley of the Wind
Massive hostile jungles, acidified and polluted water, and deserts cover most of the earth. Human civilization exists only in small maintained pockets of grasses and non-deadly forest.
Firearms, swords, airships, armor, mechanical limbs
Some scattered ancient relics, the most famous of them being a weapon used in the apocalyptic war thats shaped like a giant human.

There's the movie and a few mangas that cover stuff outside the movie.

Here's a fun one: Earth is just a bit more massive, so that there can be no solution to the rocket equation. How does the 20th century change? Do we go full batshit insane and use nukes for spaceship engines? Do we write the whole thing off as a bad job? How do astronomy, communications, and spycraft evolve when stripped of their biggest tools?

>>51569220
Nobody has. Some people have glanced at a page here and there, though.

>>51568995
Nukes aren't there except as a superweapon, but everyone else has some insane superweapon of their own. Due to MAD, no one wants to pull the trigger.

Well, MAD and the fact that no one really knows how effective their superweapon would be. America thinks that the A-bomb might set the atmosphere on fire, Austria-Hungary is worried that the seraphim they summon might turn on them, Ottomans might not be able to tame the djinni, Russian liches are kinda dicks, etc.

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>>51557887

OUTTA MY WAY SYNDIE SHITS

>>51557887
Otto von Bismark was never fired, thus preventing the triple alliance. The result is a series of proxy wars and a prolonged cold war between Tsarist Russia, Imperial Germany, The Third French Rebulic, and The British Empire instead of one big blow-out war.

>>51569905
Meanwhile the US is continuing to expand its reach in Latin America and the Pacific, and Japan edges ever closer to war. We would see the Pacific theater if nothing else of WWII play out much the same way, only without the US sending half its forces to Europe and possibly without nukes.

Now that I think about it, without Hitler going full retard there's no reason Einstein would have to emigrate. The Euro Cold War would come to an abrupt end when Bismarck could nuke London, Paris, and Moscow with missile strikes launched well within German borders.

>>51558088
Cry of the Icemark almost has this. Rome reaches the Cavalier Age.

>>51558443
>TFW Tolkien did a Doggerland setting five decades before Doggerland is recognized as having existed

>>51560549
So, Muhammad just gets called a heresiarch and gets stomped on by the Church?

>>51560559
That's just our timeline if Hillary had won.

>>51569294
I've not even seen a GURPS page, as I avoid any GURPS thread and have never downloaded or looked at a pdf of them.

>>51560890
>That doesn't sound plausible.

A single pedo's change of career doesn't sound plausable? On a board about fantasy and fiction?

>>51567956
>Muh peaceful natives
When the french and the dutch showed up, the mohawks were already going on wars of conquests for dominance of the northeast. The dutch sold them guns, french traders ended up working as mercenaries for their enemies before they settled in Quebec city. Then they went on genocidal rampages that led to the sioux becoming plains indians in the first place because they noped the fuck out of the great lakes and figured surviving as steppe nomads was better than getting murdered as farmers.

>>51568115
>what is the barbarian conspiracy
It fell.

More importantly, it wasn't even the border at the end, the border was at the Antonine wall to the north, the welsh kingdoms in the north straddled the wall until they were conquered by the northumbrian angles.

I once drew up an outline for a universe where the Miracle of the House of Brandenburg doesn't occur, basically leading to the formation of an Austrian dominated Greater germany. Shifting in alliances and priorities cause a greater french presence in North America and eventually a massive European war that sees both french and english colonies in the new world engaging in mutual rebellion. The unification of italy also happens around the same time as the Austrian unification fo rgermany and causes a huge clusterfuck

Instead of the Civil rights act, state and federal government resolve the "separate but not equal" issue by invest huge amounts of money into negro services

>>51571614
>t. WEB DuBois

>>51565042
>So does everyone see DH as the best HoI game in spite of its diplomatic shortcomings, or do I simply not understand how diplomacy in DH works?
Yup. The best mods are super heavily scripted to the point where vanilla diplomacy doesn't matter.

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For some reason some injun nation around the New England colonies doesn't get rekt by disease for whatever reason (perhaps they got rekt by Viking diseases, and the survivors' descendants centuries later had a greater resistance), and weren't in a huge mess when the English show up. Further, they manage to actually create a functioning nation-state that the Europeans recognize; let's just say the Iroquois pull it off. And they like the English colonist way of life (or at least significant parts of it), and come off as a civilized people.
England and France would technically be able to take them out, but practically that would be an issue, especially if there was no real reason to do so. The colonists, by themselves, wouldn't be able to pull it off I think, even if they were so inclined.
This nation, of course, would have the same expansion pressures as any other, and their less-united neighbors would be easy prey. There could be an expansion competition between the colonists/United States and this Nation.
Basically it'd be my EU3 Iroquois game. Pic semi-related: it's my failed Huron run, where I made a fatal error (can you spot it?).

>>51571665
Frankly the main hurdle for the Iroquois to do this Irl wasn't being perceived as civilized (east coast natives were to a much larger extent than plains indians), it's really the numbers.

At the time of US independence there were probably 10.000 surviving iroquois, claiming the whole of upstate New York west of the delaware. If it had been 100.000, things might have been different.

(although being seen as civilized especially didn't save the southeastern nations)

>>51568163
So then why didn't the Vikings wipe then out?

What if the First French Republic had succeeded in taking Ireland and then Britain. Western Europe would likely have fallen if the French had access to British resources and revenue. The Americans might have been willing to continue their support of the Republic if the French had enjoyed an early success. The world would then have been split between a republican West and feudal East. Russia would remain secure so this would become the status quo for many generations.

>>51571745
Small numbers and virtual technological parity; there isn't that big a gap between early medieval tech (which is basically still the iron age for a lot of Europe) and what the inuit had.

Like the Viking settlers very largely got wiped out by migrating inuit irl.

>>51571901
I'm talking about the disease/virus argument. If a handful of Europeans wiped out the tens of millions of Natives in years without doing anything, why didn't the vikings?

>>51571937
They had very limited contact and were in a complete backwater. Some of the peoples the europeans encountered there in the 15th century weren't even done migrating all the way there when the vikings landed. Their colonies were in the fucking middle of nowhere, even today there's barely anyone.

We know about the epidemics from spanish and french accounts, it's not some weird invention by modern academics.

>>51571993
Of course, but only from what they saw. 97% of them being wiped out due to it still sounds entirely unlikely. That's unheard of in history.

>>51572162
It's not one epidemic, it's multiple epidemics over 200 years along with other factors (the encomieda contributed to a lot of the death toll in South America, as did the various wars fought by the settlers on the eastern seaboard, often with the support of local allies)

The egyptians of yesteryear took control of the entire continent of Africa.

>>51557887
>Ctrl + F
>0 hits for "The years of rice and salt"
Seriously?

>>51558058
Sooner? So they would swim over ocean?
Also, I'm not sure you're aware humans reached southmost pieces of South America around 500 BC.

>>51572162
>Of course, but only from what they saw. 97% of them being wiped out due to it still sounds entirely unlikely. That's unheard of in history.

It's was a combination of multiple epidemics involving diseases and the resultant social breakdown, fuckwit. The Columbian Exchange is well documented and researched. Just because you're unable to understand it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

DeSoto led an expedition which wandered around what would become the US southeast between 1539 and his death in 1542. His group numbered about 700 men with the usual camp followers and had over 200 horses. They also had a herd of cattle & drove pigs.

DeSoto's scretary kept a journal which has been lost in the intervening centuries but referred to by others. There was an official report filed with Spain's king in 1544. The expedition reported a settled country with villages and fields within eyesight of each other. There were even stockaded towns, one of which near present day Mobile DeSoto's expedition attacked at a cost of 200 killed. During the expedition, the Spanish lost and had stolen horses, cattle, and hogs all known disease carriers along with carrying diseases themselves.

A century and a half later in 1682, de la Salle exploring for France entered the same region from the north and found a barely populated wasteland. The innumerable villages, fields, and stockaded towns DeSoto's men had reported were gone and/or abandoned. What people still lived in the region were one step up from hunter-gatherers tending a few plots. The multiple epidemics sweeping through the region each on the heels of the other had been devastating.

The term historians use is "slate wipers".

>>51572179
But there were up to 100 million in the Americas at the time. And that number went down very very quikly.

>>51572351
The absolutely devastating Black Plague killed about a third of Europe and that was during war, used as biological warfare, and in very dense areas. How does 95% work? Why aren't African or Australian tribes or Eskimos wiped out like that?

>>51572439
The vast majority of that 100 million was in the andes and mesoamerica, and while there was a fairly large population around those regions, it was a lot more spread out. Also we're not even entirely sure what some areas might have been like before settlement: the mouth of the amazon was home to a civilization that probably fell apart after portugese slaves introduced yellow fever in the region, we only realize they were there because archaeologists realized weird unnatural earth formations in the region were long abandoned agricultural fields and some of the local tribes in western brazil and venezuela have oral histories of once having been fully sedentary societies.

>>51572460
>Africans
Subsaharan Africa was at roughly the same level of development as early medieval europe, had strong pastoralist cultures all over, and had been integrated to major trade routes literally forever. Some parts of Subsaharan africa only started seriously trailing behind europe in the early modern period.

>Australia
They were

>Eskimos
They were to a lesser extent and by the time contact was established with them, government policies were a lot less prone to genocide them all. Most of their territory was also lucky to fall under trading companies who wanted to work with them as fur traders. They also came a lot later to the americas than other native groups, and at the very least some of them were developing a more pastoralist lifestyle.

Also again, this is 200 years of multiple diseases that the americas had never dealt with. These diseases were already present in Africa.

>>51572225
My main problem with YORAS from an alternate history perspective is that the plague was as deadly for the middle east as it was for Europe (the rat parasite that brought it west came from northern china). A realistic years of rice and salt world is one dominated almost entirely by east asians.

>>51572460

What part of multiple epidemics involving multiple diseases over multiple decades can't you understand?

The Black Plague lasted less than "only" a decade and still killed between 35% and 60% of Europe. Now imagine the Black Plague followed by the Plague of Justinian followed by the measles followed by smallpox followed by Black Plague 2.0 and so on over the period of a century. Just as you start to recover from one plague, another comes roaring in and sometimes you've got two plagues running at once.

As for Africa, Australia, and the Inuit, read >>51572504

>>51572471

There was also de Orellana's expedition in the 1540s. His group was ordered by Pizzaro to explore east from Peru and somehow managed to pass down the entire length of the Amazon on boats they built. After reaching the Atlantic, they sailed north along the coast to Venezuela.

Like de Soto, de Orellana reported villages, fortified towns, settled agriculture, and all the rest. Like de Soto, by the time someone returned to the region to follow up, everything was gone so de Orellana's reports were thought to be tall tales.

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>>51569818
>le autistic monarcucks and turbo commies having an ideological struggle while writing the world mod
>le ignore and destroy all democratic states existing because both autistic sides hate people voting

I'll pass senpai

>>51560831
>>Ferdinand's assassination fails
alternatively, Ferdinand's assassination is blamed on some other party trying to stir shit.

>>51557887

>Tokugawa loses at Sekigahara, the Christian lords of Japan gain more power, Japan slowly becomes Shinto-Catholic and instead of isolating itself from the world, joins the colonialism-game. From India to Australia, Alaska and California, Red Seal Ships become a common sight.
>The South secedes peacefully, the Union is balkanized further.
>Central Europe is controlled by the Iron Pact: an union of German-speaking states, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Kingdom of Hungary.
>Italy is not unified properly, Italy becomes a loose confederation of city states, minor kingdoms and duchies with the Pope calling the shots.
>Magic is real, is very strictly illegal almost everywhere and if the police or one of the secret services don't get you for practicing magic, the Catholic Inquisition will.

>>51560831
>>Ferdinand's assassination fails

Good one. The fact that Princip was even able to shoot Ferdinand and his wife is absolutely mind boggling. So many crazy things happened on both sides that day that, if you'd read about the event in the work of fiction, you'd be disgusted about how wildly implausible it was.

Truth is always wayyyyy stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense.

>Sorqan-Shira doesn't let Temüjin out of his cage
Completely different world.

>>51573757
>Ferdinand: "When Im emperor, the serbs will totally get local self-governance, the empire is way too harsh on our different ethnic groups."
>Serb nationalist: "We have to kill that fucker Ferdinand"
>Princip: "But y tho?"
>Serb nationalist 1: "If we get local self-governance we'll never be able to rally people into glorious bloody civil war. They'll be too content."
>Princip: "Seems legit, I'll go get my brand spanking new semi-automatic, look at this fuckign sexy thing, I've been wanting to cap someone with this."

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I know Neo-Lovecraftian shit is considered quaint but this works really well for me, I don't know hwy.

>>51573757
>>51574746
>Princip: "Fuck, we fucked up the assassination, threw some bombs and shto at him when he was driving to City Hall, but we only wounded a few soldiers... Fuck. fuck. fuck - better call the whole thing off, we'll go this way."

Meanwhile at City Hall

>Ferdinand: "Good meeting, time to roll on outta town in a goddamn parade procession."
>Everyone sensible: "They just threw bombs at us, maybe we should just drive out in armored escort?"
>Ferdinand: "Don't be pussies. Get the fuck in."
Minutes later
>Driver: "So I go left, down the street with the angry mob, right?"
>Ferdinand: "No, you fucking mong, go right, down the street LINED WITH SOLDIERS."
>Driver: "Left it is. Ooops, is that fucking Princip and his dudes ?"
>Ferdinand: "Oh, fuck me."
>Princip: "CHECK OUT MY NEW GAT FERDIE, YOU IMPERIALIST SWINE."

History is fucking retarded.

>>51570231

More like he picks after zoroathrism instead.

>>51574788

This is pretty interesting in a weird way. Might I ask where it is from?

>>51561061
Without funding the american revolution the bourbons had basically two more years to go before going bankrupt. Louis XIV did a lot more harm, by multiple orders of magnitude, then the US revolution.

>>51574945
GURPS Infinite Worlds - Worlds of Horror

>>51563853
Great Britain no doubt.

See Operation Unthinkable.

>>51558120
I want a Temeraire game.

maybe it will even have decent rules for aerial combat

Cometary impact circa ~1914.
In the chaos of the impact winter, multiple tsunamis, famine and flooding, the war which results is worse than WWI by an order of magnitude. Rather than being concentrated in Europe, the war is all-encompassing. Trench lines run through the US, South American countries go at one another's throats for high ground and arable land, and India revolts. Russians commence to eating each other after three consecutive years of no harvests at all.

Twenty years later, with the impact winter being over and mankind making most of a return, the world looks very different.

>>51575419
What makes it different from from any other post-apocalypse?

>>51568003 not exactly.
367AD - BARBARIAN CONSPIRACY (Hadrian's Wall)
Tribes have overrun Hadrian's Wall in a Barbarian Conspiracy. Picts, Irish and Scots, assisted by Saxon pirates from northern Europe, seem to have colluded. This is the biggest revolt against the Romans to date.

>>51575488
That the apocalypse happened in 1914, and is now mostly over with. Recovery is in full swing, et cetera et cetera

>>51575419
Different how exactly? That's a fairly interesting point of divergence or whatever they call it, but it doesn't say much about the setting itself.

>>51575573
Coastlines have taken a big step inland, the British Empire is in retreat. Russia is under the grips of the Soviets, who have embraced cannibalism in a big way. The Brits turned India into a charnel house after the second Mutiny. The Japanese are charging through China in order to acquire more land (though this is barely a divergence). The South rose again in the US, with a large DMZ of a border between the US and CS. Both countries are largely irrelevant due to the wastage of the war, as well as the famines and winter. Australia has bloomed due to a shift in weather patterns. The only industry which thrives world-wide is fishing. Everyone is getting ready to settle scores from the last war.

>>51575652
Not bad.

>>51565042
in Kaiserreich and vanilla DH you're just supposed to follow the scripted events until you're too powerful to care

>>51574788
Soviet occultism is a pretty neat idea. It's not quite the same, but I like the music video Metallica made about the Soviets gassing America with a zombie parasite

>>51557887
>Rome never fell
>Rome always stayed a Republic
>WWI never ended
>Native Americans resisted being conquered long enough to form Kingdoms and Nation States
>Nazis won WWII
>Nazis won WWII then killed Hitler for being a fuckweasel
>Moors kept Spain
>Portuguese Royalty stayed in Brazil, triggering a massive war between Spain and Portugal for South America
>American South won the Civil War
>American Civil War never happened and there are 'Americas'
>Pearl Harbor did its job, keeping America out of WWII. Its still going on technically
>Crusades took and held the Holy Land
>America's invasion of Canada was successful
>America's war against Mexico led America to annex the whole country
>Manhattan Project never worked
>Manhattan Project worked too well, causing the near Apocalypse of 1945

>>51575805
>>Manhattan Project worked too well, causing the near Apocalypse of 1945
the calculation that said Trinity would set the atmosphere on fire turns out to be true and all life in massive swathes of the American southwest and northern Mexico is destroyed at the height of WW2

>>51575851
I always thought when the report said "the atmosphere" it meant all the atmosphere.

>>51575867
it probably did, but everything on earth dying doesn't make for a good alt-history

>>51575519
Ain't gonna do shit without the Batavii m8

>>51575884
That's why I said 'near-apocalypse'.

It would destroy just enough of everything to a) stop WWII in its tracks and b) put literally every survivor on the back foot, needing to rebuild in the burnt out wasteland

>>51575911
that works too, but I think the idea of one localized location being totally destroyed could play out in a more interesting way if it was applied well

>>51576114
It could be, but close to other ideas on my list. A localized disaster of that magnitude would cause the US to withdraw to take care of the home front.

Or use the Japanese that were imprisoned as slave labor to restore the area.

>>51566295
>some aircraft use collisions to kill enemy aircraft
We normally call those "missiles". Unless you actually mean crushing fighter jets into each other, pilot and all? Or hell, even a drone? Do you have any idea how inefficient that is?

>>51567435
>>51567889
The aforementioned Ezcali setting for GURPS Alternate Earths (featuring an industrialized Tenochca empire in a timeline where European civilization pretty much died out) has a surprising observation on this: heliocentricism wouldn't even surprise the Tenochca - they've known all along that the Sun was the all important character in the center of the universe. What WOULD cause chaos within their religious and academic communities would be the revelation that there are more than 5 planets, since each one is supposed to represent a god and suddenly their cosmology no longer fits the universe.

>>51576729
How the hell do they explain this?

>>51576779
Around the 5th century BC (IIRC), a Carthaginian ship is thrown off course by bad weather and ends up in the Americas (the book postulates that the Carthaginians were good enough sailors and had good enough ships that this isn't wholly unfeasible). Being a nation of traders, not missionaries, they shrug and commence to establish trade with the natives, providing them with metal tools, cows, sheep, horses and all those other goodies. The natives naturally get smallpox and 80% of South America dies out - but because this time they aren't also being warred with they're able to recover over the next couple thousand years, developing all the necessary communities.

Meanwhile, the Carthaginians bring maize and potatoes back into the Old World. Those new staple crops mean the Old World is no longer nearly as dependent on Egyptian wheat, robbing the Roman Empire of much of its economic power and eventually leading to its under barbarians. The barbarians, not united under Christianity into a single, powerful "Europe", stand no chance against the Mongols and when the time comes European civilization is all but wiped out, leaving most Asia and Europe divided between numerous Khanates (with pillage from the West, the Mongols become powerful enough to destroy Chinese civilization, too, though much of it is incorporated into their own).

In Africa, remnants of Carthaginian colonies live on.

The result is a world that, by the 20th century, is technologically spearheaded by the Americas (Tenocha in Central and South America, a version of our own timeline's Iroquois Confederacy spread over much of North America, similarly industrialized).

The book points out that this is ultimately a laughable scenario since there's no way in hell you'd see anything RESEMBLING Tenocha civilization in the 20th century if things like horses and metalwork had been introduced to the Americas back in 500 BC - the domino effect would've meant whatever came out would be unrecognizable.

>>51576908
I like the in-setting quote about how historians refuse to believe this alternative world exists at all and rate the world where everyone that is the same as the Earth except everyone is a dinosaur with a different name as more likely than Ezcalli.

>>51576908
>>51576962
And that's the single biggest problem with "Native American Empires Survive" type settings: the only way to make that happen (barring Alien Space Bats) is to introduce massive changes to the Americas at a very early point in time (e.g. having them encounter old worlders earlier, giving them time to repopulate after the plague wave, or they had livestock the whole time). But if you do that, the changes to American culture by the time we can historically say anything about it would be so severe it would no longer be recognizable to us.

For example, it's unlikely that human sacrifice (which probably evolved from some kind of cannibalistic practice back in the day, necessitated by the scarcity of meat sources) would've been nearly as prevalent in Central American civilizations if they'd just had something like sheep or cows to go around. And Central American civilization without human sacrifices might as well be a completely fictional civilization with no relation to history, for all we could theorize about it. That custom shaped their entire culture and history.

>>51574746
And we're treating that retard like a national hero over here.

>>51557887
>America never joined WW1
>Germany never launched the spring offensives draining their manpower
>WW1 is still going on as of 1922
>Germany's allies have all fallen or are entirely propped up by Germany
>Every country is on the verge of collapse
>Riots are accepted as a daily part of life
>Famine is common
>Eastern Europe is filled with rebels constantly fighting German occupying forces
>Tanks, artillery, and storm trooper tactics see more and more widespread use making offensives even more deadly for each side
>Entente is planning one final series of offensives in every front at once to finally break the deadlock
>If the offensive fails the loss of moral may cause outright revolution in Britain, France, Italy, and Greece
PCs can be either side or perhaps even communist or anarchist agitators trying to prolong the war to ensure all of Europe collapses into civil war.

>>51577451
Can we go hunt Hitler down and skullfuck him to death before working to ensure the Fatherland's dominance over Europe.

>>51574788
>Is this Stalin being his normally Lawful Evil self or has he been bodyjacked by the Great Race?

>>51577016
>(barring Alien Space Bats)
please point me to the setting where mesoamerica becomes a dominant world power because of alien space bats because that is the next setting I will be playing

>>51577816
It doesn't refer to any specific setting. "Alien Space Bats" is the alternatehistory.com slang equivalent of "deus ex machina", basically being some asspulled, ludicrous "reasoning" to have something happen in a timeline. In this case, ASB would be if the guy making up the setting were to say "in an incredible coincidence, in this version of the timeline all Native Americans just so happened to evolve with a mutation which rendered them immune to smallpox".

>>51577850
Wouldn't a better example be "in this timeline, Aztec blood magic cures the smallpox"?

>>51577903
Shit, that's a neat idea for a fantasy setting. And since you're already dealing with magic and thus all pretensions of realism are out the window, you can even justify Aztec culture being recognizable by saying that magic only started actually working once Cortez arrived in the New World, thereby unknowingly fulfilling all the prophecies about Quetzalcoatl (albeit not remotely how anyone thought).

Also, completely arbitrarily, Aztec cosmology turns out to the be true one, thus only Aztec magic is real and there's no need to ask why God didn't protect the Spaniards or something.

>>51577016
>For example, it's unlikely that human sacrifice (which probably evolved from some kind of cannibalistic practice back in the day, necessitated by the scarcity of meat sources) would've been nearly as prevalent in Central American civilizations if they'd just had something like sheep or cows to go around.

Plus having pack animals that aren't just the camel's crappy mountain cousin might help

Interesting sidenote, I was reading about camels a couple months ago and saw that they hadn't really been domesticated at the time that a lot of Biblical stories were actually taking place, so their inclusion in the stories was just an addition years after the fact.

Maybe some kind of setting where camels were domesticated earlier/ later?

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>>51577963
I like this a lot. But I also like the idea of competing cosmology and pantheons. May the best civilization win

>>51578068
You can't pull that off while also involving monotheism. Omnipotence is absolutely vital to the definition of the monotheistic God. It wouldn't be the monotheistic God if it's not omnipotent and if it's omnipotent there's no issue with clashing civilizations, it automatically defeats all the other gods.

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>>51574832

>>51558058
>which would put their technology more-or-less on par with that of Europe when Columbus first discovers America (if indeed he even does
no it wouldn't, technology isn't a function of time

>>51557910
Well the problem is that Steampunk died in the delivery room.

>>51558231
>The early republican legions where not the Imperial legions were not the late proto-dark age legions

Sure, they weren't. Neither of course were the early republican legions the legion of the late republic, nor indeed were the late imperial legions the same as the late imperial legions in other parts of the empire, standardization being a luxury of a powerful state apparatus.

However even the late eastern roman foedarati who weren't even part of the empire, and some of them had never been.
Indeed the Tanukhids provided a huge portion of the manpower in the later part of the Roman-Persian war, and they were desert tribesmen, and in the conquests of Italy by Justinian Hunnic archers and Herulean warriors (That is to say, Swedes settled on the black coast) made up a larger portion of his forces than will ever be portrayed.

However, retro-futurism is a thing.

>>51560589
Improved metalurgy could be a function.

>>51560549
Well that leaves Persia as the defining power, there being no centralized Arab power structure, and Heraclius' forces aren't crushed in the Levant, and he isn't forced to leave the empire in the hands of the incompetent and corrupt, and he can focus on the Persians.

However that just means that once he goes, this generation of corrupt bureaucrats who fucked over the nation while he was gone have time to consolidate, and what happens then is up to anyone.

We may see women having a larger role in middle eastern politics, which will be much more focused on local mercantile city states rather than theocratic military states (Indeed, we may see the Polis becoming more prominent as Arab trade becomes more popular, if a similar enlightenment period somehow happens. Although without the influx of Roman and Jewish learned people, it may take a while for Arabs to settle into a golden age, but given that they are relatively undisturbed while the Persians and Romans fight...

>>51580224
>However even the late eastern roman foedarati who weren't even part of the empire, and some of them had never been.

Were recognizably Roman troops marching under Roman banners*

>>51580224
>Well the problem is that Steampunk died in the delivery room.

Being charitable aren't you, most people would call what happened to it a stillbirth.

>>51575805
>>Rome always stayed a Republic

Rome was officially a Republic until Diocletian, and the senate remained until the fall of the Ostrogoths in the west, and until the fourth crusade in the east.
In the east it lost most of its ceremonial duties, but retained its power to elect emperors, and even dominate them politically, while being made up of the same types of people who made up the senate in the Republic.
In fact, I'd argue that the Byzantine senate was more powerful than the senate had been in the late republic.

While in the west it just became a ceremonial thing, but with members holding vast wealth.

I always found that really interesting,

>>51576729

Yeah alternate earths 1 and 2, and Infinite Worlds, basically covers the "alternate timeline" concept so thoroughly that it's almost a conversation killer.

Most of the concepts I'm reading in this thread are in Infinite Worlds somewhere.

>>51580492
You know what I mean.

>>51580591
The only bummer is that they didn't collect the more fantastic alternate history settings (the one that made it into the various 4th edition PDF only releases, like the one where 18th century Europe invents aether based wooden starships and psionics, or the one where the industrial revolution is started by rabbis mass animating golems, or the bronze age Mediterranean is ruled by Etruscan vampires...) into an Alternate Earths 3 kinda book. Would've literally made the series perfect.

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>>51564746
It could have been great

>>51580788
>like the one where 18th century Europe invents aether based wooden starships and psionics, or the one where the industrial revolution is started by rabbis mass animating golems, or the bronze age Mediterranean is ruled by Etruscan vampires..
Which books are those from?

>>51580855
First one and third one are from various PDF only 4th edition supplements (for the Infinite Worlds setting, which is basically "Alternate Earths, Now GURPS' Default Setting Insomuch As Such A Thing Exists"). Second one is from GURPS Steampunk, 3rd edition.

>>51580628
The problem is that Rome flirted with monarchy a lot.

So the idea here is that Rome never gets another dictator?

What about people like Zenobia?
Does Caesar still happen? (He wore purple, but he was never really a monarch)
What about Augustus? (He was a monarch, but pretended he wasn't)

Where is the divide here?
Does Augustus happen and then his power is dissolved?
Does Augustus die in infancy?
Does Caesar die in Gaul (And when?)?

>>51580985
Caeser still saves Rome but doesn't take over.

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>>51572807

>not liking one of the best and most realistic pieces of alternate history ever written

For this, you must attend a reeducation course or you shall be declared a traitor and an enemy of the proletariat.

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>>51564746
>Implying bankers and corporations wouldn't have won out anyways

>>51581008
So Caesar accepts being declared a criminal, and is likely punished for it? (Probably killed)

I... can't really imagine what happens.
I mean the optimates and the legions are going to be **pissed**

I mean the martyrdom of Caesar was already what allowed Mark Anthony and Augustus to seize most of the power in Rome.

Especially given that the charge was treason, and the punishment for that was a torturous death, Mark Anthony is likely going to take the the thirteenth across the Rubicon, just as Caesar did just to avoid his own men murdering him for not doing so.

What happens after that is anyone's guess.
The thirteenth legion is still stronger than anything Pompey can muster, and unlike Caesar the mutinous legion has no reason to forgive and forget that time they were all called criminals and the guy in charge of paying them were killed.

>>51581409
Straight off the top of my head, and this is probably retarded, but maybe caesar saves himself from execution by riding a wave of popular opinion and offering to spend a decade warring against the barbarians with his men in some kind of penitence. After that decade he's such a big deal and has amassed so much power that he rides back in even stronger and declares the return of the republic, unfucking all the shit Sulla (it was Sulla before, right?) fucked up and getting himself elected legally, serving as many terms as possible before becoming just another politician, although an adored one.

Dear god it has been too long since I read about this stuff. Basic idea seems solid though.

>>51581642
Spending a decade fighting against the barbarians with his men was EXACTLY WHAT HE DID THAT WASN'T ALLOWED.

Because it did exactly what you said it would, it made him super rich and popular.

And what you said he should do afterwards is basically what he did.
He got in on a huge wave of popular support, and he started making reforms all over the fucking place which made him unpopular with the Senate who had him killed for threatening their power..

I mean the main difference here is that you want him to pull a Sulla and retire once he's won?

>>51564746
You mean unlike the nation of Prussia where the Junker class and the industrial sector bled together to create a super bloc of screwing everyone?

>>51581858
>Because it did exactly what you said it would, it made him super rich and popular.

Yeah I was thinking basically he'd finagle a way to make it look like he was making a great personal sacrifice, some kind of political bullshit so that in order to reject him the patiricians would have to piss off absolutely all the plebs. I mean, they ended up doing that anyway when they killed him, but they weren't expecting it to be so poorly recieved.

>I mean the main difference here is that you want him to pull a Sulla and retire once he's won?

Basically yes. Bring back the old democratic ways before Sulla semi-fucked everything with holding on to power and all the murders etc,eventually just retiring and bringing back the full republic.

>>51575419

So, Skippy, a rip off of Stirling's "Peshawar Lancers" set 50 years later?

Got anything original?

>>51577451
>>WW1 is still going on as of 1922
>>Tanks, artillery, and storm trooper tactics see more and more widespread use making offensives even more deadly for each side

Got love a timeline which contradicts itself in as little as 6 sentences.

Got anything that isn't an insult to our intelligence?

>>51581642
>>51583546

In These Posts: Someone who knows next to nothing about Rome suggests changes to Roman history.

>>51584123
Don't be a dick man.

>>51583546
>Yeah I was thinking basically he'd finagle a way to make it look like he was making a great personal sacrifice, some kind of political bullshit so that in order to reject him the patiricians would have to piss off absolutely all the plebs

So he comes back, but instead of beating them militarily, he spins a story so good that they instead lets him... become dictator?

But okay, the triumvirate is now a duumvirate, with Pompey and Caesar, who are both agitating for pro-optimates reforms + the power of the tribunes.
Let's not question it. (If I were to device a scenario, I'd probably go with Caeasr losing at Dyrrhachium and Cato managing to seize control with the senate with the biggest "I TOLD YOU SO" in the history of the universe)

So we're back to the old legislative gridlock of the old days, and the SPQR probably trots along doing just fine for a while, especially with careful men like Cato and Pompey in charge (And hopefully most of the rest of the senate taught a very big lesson), although without all the public works from Augustus (Although lets imagine most of those happen anyway).
The first big crisis will be the rise of Zenobia or a similar regional power, the only real way for Rome to respond is to delegate greater regional control, or to appoint a dictator, and if they start delegating more regional power we're looking at Rome slowly fracturing into a federation of sorts.
If they keep going the dictator route, it's honestly only a matter of time until someone seizes permanent power.

Beyond that it's hard to know.

>>51583546
>Basically yes. Bring back the old democratic ways before Sulla semi-fucked everything with holding on to power and all the murders etc,eventually just retiring and bringing back the full republic.

The Plebs had ONE position in government, that of Tribune of the Plebs.
And while it's true that this was perhaps the most powerful office, in theory at any rate, it also had some pretty severe limitation.

1: He had to be physically present to veto something, and there was no rules about bringing a matter up again later.

2: His powers only worked in Rome

3:He stopped being sacrosanct after he stopped being a tribune

And most importantly, there was just him.
He had to deal with both the senate and the magistrates on his own (Well, him and the other tribune(s)).
In effect the tribune was the sole check and balance on senatorial and magisterial power over the plebs. He had to stop all the unfair laws in the senate, but he also had to stop all the excesses of the senatorial class outside of that, as well as the actions of the magistrates when they went too far.
As in, the only legal recourse a pleb had against a patrician or a magistrate was physically yelling for the Tribune to come say this was illegal, which he had to decide on fairly arbitrarily.
The only legal recourse against unjust laws was the tribune physically being present at the vote and saying no, until they gave up the matter.

And what if two tribunes disagreed?
Well they could just veto each other until someone got mad and started stabbing people, as indeed happened with Tiberius Gracchus and Marcus Octavius.
The people being mad and starting to stab being, of course, the senators.

>>51584947
>tfw all the evil-emperor stories we know of come from buttmad senators
>tfw the "palaces" that Nero built were refugee housing for the plebes of the city who lost their homes in the fire
Suetonius deserved Damnatio Memoriae

>>51557887

I give you Left Beyond Quest: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=left%20beyond

Basically, that Christian book series, Left Behind? It happened. Here we see the few unbelievers left after Turbo-Jesus took over the Earth dealing with it.

>>51585969
I mean, you are of course kidding, but Nero DID codify rights for the plebian class and slaves.

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>>51567036
I like the romans

>>51586406
In fact, historically, the working classes have traditionally benefited in the short term when a leader wants to consolidate power.
The Roman emperors often aligned themselves with the plebs against the senatorial class, as the senatorial class was a rival for power and the plebian class provided stuff like soldiers.

In Scandinavia the rise of the absolute monarch killed serfdom

In Prussia Wilhelm II was sympathetic to unionists and wanted to reform labour laws, while Bismarck wanted to shoot them.

Lenin may have been bad for political rights in the long run (Which is hilarious since his predecessors had basically invented secret police), but in the short run the average conditions were much better post-revolution that they had been under the Czar.

Perón fought poverty rather effectively.

Hitler's spending policies were retarded in the long run, but they brought short term prosperity to Germans.

If the British never recieved the falsehood that they lost the Battle of Wellington, causing them to not sell their shares and prevent a huge power grab by the Rothschilds.

>>51586846

You meant the Battle of Waterloo and the stock market story is a myth created in 1846.

HOw the Rothschilds made a killing during the 100 Days was by winning the government contract to supply Wellington's forces with cash money. You can read about it in Ferguson's "The Ascent of Money".

>>51586846
>>51586948
But how do the snakemen of Lemuria tie into this?

>>51588929

Who do you think made Napoleon's hemorrhoids flare up and who do you think sent the conflicting order which kept d'Erlon's I Corps out of both the Ligny and Quatre Bras battles?

>>51578170
Just make it so that pantheons of gods are real. But any/all monotheistic religions aren't real. God, Allah, etc. are all just glorified fairy tales.

In fact, that would be a really interesting twist, judaism, christianity, islam, none of those religions took off, because their gods are "false gods" so empires like Rome, Egypt, Aztecs, Vikings, China, Mongols, all remain strong and their "real deities" prevent false monotheistic religions from conquering the world.

>>51578292
I want to see a world where magic mirrors are real, and during the bronze age and shit take off as someone figures out a way to mass produce small magic mirrors that save a tone of power by only receiving communication from a single centralized mirror.

Basically ancient television/wifi.

Can you imagine what it would be like watching the Fox News during the rise of Rome?

>>51589840
Or you know, God/Allah was a war god who killed the rest of the pantheon and ordered he be the only one to be worshipped.

>>51589947
Which leaves him completely outnumbered against rival pantheons with dozens of gods each just as powerful as he is, each with at least some individuals who know how to work with each other, and lets not forget that their are multiple pantheons from different continents on all sides who would be more than happy to either enslave or kill his murderhobo cultists.

Sucks to be all alone when surrounded on all sides by enemies.

>>51577963
The advantage of using just the Aztec pantheon is that it's relatively easy to justify history progressing MOSTLY unimpeded by complete supernatural gonzo while leaving enough room for fantastic elements. Why isn't magic or divine appearances any more common? Gods are far too busy running the universe. Nothing short of stupendous mass sacrifice even grabs their attention. Done.

>>51568293
In a scenario where USA doesn't join the war so Kaiserschlacht knocks off UK and France early war, does this mean in a scenario where USA doesn't join WWI, Germany and Austria conquer the entirety of Europe except for Russia?

>>51589947
>>51589984
Can anyone come up with an at least semi plausible reason why Russian pagan folk music would sweep across the globe and even gods of rival pantheons would admit that it's at least not bad, thus allowing the people of various races to adopt it in droves (as long as they don't neglect their native/traditional/religious music) even pantheons such as native americans?

I recently fell in love with that kind of music and I need an excuse to include.

>>51589984
Nah see, he gets all the worship, so on his own, he's as strong as any one other pantheon.

>>51590103
Receiving all the worship of your individual religions faithful making you a one god pantheon doesn't mean jack shit if every other pantheon on the face of the planet outnumbers your faithful a thousand to one.

You need to remember that christianity and islam both originated with judaism, and jews were originally so few in numbers they were a slave race, and even after they gained their freedom they were nothing more than nomadic goat herds.

In our hypothetical altworld the other pantheons would never have lost followers to judaism or any monothiestic religion because each individual god would be able to perform every day miracles like healing cancer to keep the faithful from straying.

Why worship a god so fucking crazy he slaughtered all of his brothers and sisters and is unable to compete with other deities so his faithful are perpetually trapped in poverty when you could worship a god that can heal you, educate you, elevate you in the eyes of society, and enrich you? Not to mention smite any motherfucker who tries to invade.

If dinosaurs, such as the triceratops, were to have survived, or been revived, in the South America long before Christopher Columbus arrived, where would be the ideal location for them to live, in order to continue surviving in the modern day world?

In the Amazon Jungle? Brazil? Mexico?

>>51590472
>If dinosaurs, such as the triceratops

Oxygen levels would be too low for them. That being said, you'd need a very large region for them to constantly migrate in to forage on seasonal vegetation.

>>51577794
Who could tell the difference?

Also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin_was_a_mushroom

>>51590550
>Oxygen levels would be too low for them.

Not necessarily, from the very first dinosaur to the mass extinction that killed off the last of the "true" dinosaurs was a span of time longer than all mammalian species have existed, let alone homo sapiens.

This is why it is divided up into different periods, such as the Jurassic period.

Through all that time the atmosphere kept changing. There were points in time when the dinosaurs were alive that the atmosphere was so similar to what it is today that we could have breathed it just fine without any ill health effects.

>>51590583

He asked about triceratops, not every dinosaur species over 100 millions years.

>>51590590
He asked about dinosaurs in general, not just triceratops. Probably to prevent the thread from derailing into "BIRBS ARE DINOS, GBTFO SCALE FAGS!!!"

>>51590590
Well the triceratops wouldn't have survived without change for 100 million years, but even "living fossils" adapt to their changing environments a little, at least enough to keep breathing the atmosphere. I guess if you just teleported one specimen from xx million years ago it would probably choke, yeah.

>>51590615
>birds are dinos

Wrong m8, dinosaurs are just birds.

>>51590628
If dinosaurs are birds then what are spiders?

>>51590625
Well yeah, but that doesn't say much when the exact same thing would happen if you instantly teleported a human from a sandy beach to the top of a mountain.

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>>51590625
Presumably he wants something that closely resembles late Cretaceous North American ceratopsids than exactly same creature as it was 70 million years ago.

>>51590550
>Oxygen levels would be too low for them
Large animals needing a high oxygen level is mostly a myth as far as vertebrates and other organisms with a robust pulmonary system are concerned. It's also a non-issue in a lost-world scenario where the creatures had more than enough time to adapt to slow changes. Maybe it will be subtly different from the Cretaceous triceratops (20% larger ribcage, 10% smaller body mass or something) but it will still be a big fucking lizard.

>>51590650
Indeed.

>>51590681

If he want's something weird, instead of magically saving some dinosaurs and preventing them from evolving over 100s of millions of years, he could have the dumb fuck Paleo-Indians not hunt the glyptodon to extinction.

>>51590550
>>51590685
You know, it's funny, because whenever I see this argument it's usually that they wouldn't survive our atmosphere because there's too much oxygen, rather than not enough.

That's how I learned that you can technically die from oxygen poisoning, same as water poisoning.

>>51590713
Do yourself a favor and google that ancient city in south america that has all of the stone carvings of anatomically correct dinosaurs.

>>51590685

I'm not saying high oxygen levels is required for gigantism, fuckwit.

I am saying that air bubbles in amber dating from the Cretaceous era indicate an oxygen level of 30% compared to the current 21%.

>>51590728
>whenever I see this argument it's usually that they wouldn't survive our atmosphere because there's too much oxygen
I've never heard that claim, especially since the periods most popular in pop culture (Cretacean, Jurassic, Carboniferous notably) had significantly higher oxygen levels than the present.

>>51590738
It's a common mistake, that's why I pointed it out. If you don't believe that it's fine.

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>>51557887
When Lucifer rebelled, all of Heaven fell.

No, not Fell, fell. Literally. The rebels dragged it with them in a final suicidal act of hatred. It smashed into and through earth, with the remains showering Hell in divinity, turning it into an endless pool of light.

Earth itself is now part Heaven as well, and has been for a few thousand years now. As you can imagine, with God silent, the angels dead, and the demons burning eternally in light, humanity had its own ideas of what to do with the newly en-Heavened earth.

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>>51590738
>purely fictional altworld scenarios
>vampirism is perfectly fine
>magic is perfectly fine
>gods that walk among us is perfectly fine
>dinosaurs...
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

>>51591001
let the nerds obsess over their numbers anon

anyone who isn't a red-born moron knows that ANY game is improved if you have dinosaurs somewhere in it

>>51591015
>red-born moron
???

>>51590993

Sounds fantastic. Could you expand on it?

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>>51590550
>>51590713
>>51590738

>>51590550
What? The oxygen level only matters for invertebrates who breathe with trachea.

>>51591149
Yeah, didn't dragonflys used to grow to the size of eagles when dinosaurs lived? But alligators, crocodiles, sharks, turtles, they are all pretty much the same as back then?

>>51591236
Yes. And the largest animal to ever have lived is the modern blue whale.

>>51591365
What kind of creatures existed before the dinosaurs? I know that there were vertebrate land dwelling animals before them, and the dinosaurs rose up to dominate the planet after a mass extinction the same way mammals did.

But I've never seen or heard anything about that time period, except for ocean dwelling species. Nothing about the land dwelling species that predate dinosaurs.

>>51591055
Not sure how without making it an entire setting writeup. I'd imagine there's probably areas of Heaven ecology, which might not be as safe as people assume, and all manner of divine 'tech' and alchemy in use, and some very strange religious variants.

>>51591458
Big amphibians and huge insects.

>>51591667
So reptiles are amphibians that grew scales?

Are mammals amphibians that grew fur? Or reptiles that grew fur?

Serbia wins at Kosovo.

Alternately, Serbia wins at WWI, then turns east removes all the kebab. All of it.

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>>51591458
While there was a mass extinction, it wasn't really as dramatic as the one that led dinosaurs to extinction, it mainly concerned insects. But there was a very impressive group of reptile-like animals that went extinct except for one branch. The group is called synapsids, they are different from reptiles in their skulls. They also developed some interesting features like highly specialized teeth. Or fur. In fact, the one branch that survived turned into mammals. So here's what our ancestors looked like.

>>51591667
There were a lot of different reptiles and reptile-like groups before dinosaurs. Like lizards and crocodiles, for example, and may others that died out.

>>51591758
>So reptiles are amphibians that grew scales?
Amphibians that don't need water, have more complex skulls and differnt skin, and some other features.

>Are mammals amphibians that grew fur? Or reptiles that grew fur?
Synapsids that grew fur. Synapsids are one of the several similar evolutionary paths that stemmed from amphibians.

>>51591833
>>51591861
Cool, thanks anons!

>>51591833
But they weren't all other the place already, were they? The reptiles during the big amphibians/huge insect era.

>>51591833
>End-Permian Mass Extiction
>Largest extinction event in Earth's history
>An area the size of Siberia literally exploded
>Took 10 million years to recover
>Not as dramatic

Please, animal clades that had existed for hundreds of millions of years went extinct, live could only survive at the poles and IIRC it rained acid for 60.000 years

>>51591929
Well, okay, I looked it up, maybe it was catastrophic like that. When I read about it it was described as a very slow process that just cut all the redundant groups that weren't as adaptable as their cousins.

>>51584094
Nothing about tanks, artillery, or storm trooper tactics or high casualty rates prevent the war from continuing. Cambrai was a major success involving combined use of tanks and artillery but due to German counter-attacks the offensive was ultimately pointless. Without Germany bleeding themselves out in the Spring Offensives just prior to the US joining the war it is certainly possible that Each side could continue for longer.

>>51574788
Considering their suppression of Occultism and general religion, it's entirely possible that they might've plunged the other way and gone full Oprichnina on the Old God's servants. One wonders if the only reason our souls haven't been devoured by eldritch horrors is because everyone who could summon them got purged...

>>51557887
Atlantis exists

>way ahead tech-wise
>spread their horizons across the globe with their superior travel technology
>becomes dominating force world-wide
>becomes an influence on every culture it touches
>some nations even come under direct rule from the Atlantian Empire
>suddenly, Atlantis falls into the sea
>empire mostly falls apart, leaving 3/4 of the world with nothing but infrastructure and a power vacuum
>the remaining quarter are held by Atlantian Colonists, the most powerful and wealthy among them renaming themselves New Atlantis
>Wars fought throughout human history after that use tech scavenged from the fallen empire

>>51591474

Sounds better and better! Any more ideas for it?

>>51572535
>YORAS
>Realistic
Literally pick one.

I mean did you've missed the fucking point it was a fantasy setting to begin with?

>>51592382
>Nothing about tanks, artillery, or storm trooper tactics or high casualty rates prevent the war from continuing.
>high casualty rates
>high casualty rates
>high casualty rates

When you pull your head out of your ass, look up the ages and conditions of the men both sides were calling up during 1918.

Another four years - hell, another two months - was completely unsustainable.

>>51591774
>Serbia wins at WWI
This is about as likely as those self-imposed HoI challenges where people try to conquer the world as Tibet.

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>>51574788
>Ultravioletovie
And Upravlenie is spelled wrong too. It's Upravleniye.

Also it would be The Directorate of Ultraviolet as written.

Sigh.

>>51557887
One where the japs weren't retarded in their surprise attack and hit the Panama canal as well as occupying Hawaii.
It would be extremely difficult for the US to come back from that sort of attack.

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>>51593913
Well, if Ultravioletovie was actually a word. It's not. It's Ul'trafioletovyy or Ul'trafioletoviye I guess.

God this entire thing is infuriating.

>>51557887
Man in the high castle style scenario but with the US divided between the PRC and the USSR with the players playing Wolverine style guerillas fighting from the rocky mountain neutral zone

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>>51593913
>>51593943
Pst.
Hey.

>>51593943
Maybe it wouldn't be so infuriating if you were less autistic? It's perfectly fine to spell it Upravlenie, an the fucking apostrophes denoting soft consonants are pointless and look ugly as fuck.

>>51593931
>One where the japs weren't retarded in their surprise attack and hit the Panama canal as well as occupying Hawaii.

Can you even comprehend just how far away Panama is from Japan? In order make it to ~200 miles from Hawaii and back, the IJN destroyers escorting the carriers that hit Pearl had to carry extra fuel in drums on the deck.

As for invading Hawaii, the IJN would have to get the troops from the IJA and those crazy bastards were almost completely focused on China. The IJN fought the IJA as much as it did the US.

>>51593931
>It would be extremely difficult for the US to come back from that sort of attack.

>>Panama is far from Japan, isolated, gets retaken within the month.
>>All US shipyards are still safe anyway.
>>Hawaii has to wait an extra month before being liberated.

>>51594508
>panama canal destroyed
>an extra month
kek

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>>51593931
Better way for Japs to buy time would be use merchant vessels carrying explosives and other stuff to disable and/or destroy at least couple of Panama Canal's gates and bomb the ever living fuck out of Pearl Harbor's oil storage facilities instead of wasting munitions on obsolete slow as fuck battlewagons. Of course in the long run this would probably at most mean that Japan lasts a year or two longer and gets hit by more nuclear ordnance during the final days of WW2.

>>51594576
Thought "occupy", not "destroy".

>>51594598

All merchant vessels using the Canal were searched beginning 1 September 1939 when the war started in Europe. Before that, vessels were randomly searched.

As for the oil farm at Pearl, Nimitz wrote that if had been damaged/destroyed the US would have simply parked more tankers in the harbor until it was repaired/rebuilt. As it was, extra tankers were used early in the war prior to the farm being expanded.

>>51594087
The whole point of translating something is for it to be understood. Why would you fuck it up by using non-standard transliteration and incorrect grammar?

>>51562481
That pic and the treaty arent chronologically corresponding. The treaty was around 1802/3 when Holland was still a republic and not even a Kingdom under Nappy's bro.

The treaty wouldve been great for the NL actually and unlike what the poster posted wouldnve been a victory for the bonaparte family, but a french republican victory as the empire wasnt founded yet (let alone even being consul)

>>51594337

Go the other way, make things worse for Japan. Have Pearl Harbour be the same, but Germany not declare on USA. USA is only at war with Japan, and puts all effort into fighting the Nips, leaving the Brits alone to fight in Europe. USA begins its island hopping across to Japan. As they're focusing entirely on Japan, they get to the Japanese mainland before nukes are ready, and start a horrible mess of a land invasion. The need for more munitions and the like for the fighting in Japan and lower overall level of mobilisation due to not fighting so many enemies leads to reduced lend lease to the Soviets and Brits, making the situation in Europe far worse.

USA eventually defeats Japan via conventional warfare, and sets up puppet governments in Japan and Korea. Due to working closely together against the Japs, USA backs Nationalist China against Communist China, leading to the defeat of Mao and Nationalist China being heavily USA influenced and moving more towards Western ideals.

In Europe, Brits despair due to lack of USA help and worsening situation in Russia, and sue for peace while the Nazis are bogged down in Russia to get a better deal. As part of the deal, France and the low countries are restored to freedom, but with Fascist governments. Although France gains semi independence quite quickly, Netherlands and Belgium become puppet states of Germany. Italy formally anexes Greece as well as British colonies in Egypt, although the Greeks break free in a brief war for independence just a few years later.

With much improved support from France, and no real aid from the USA, the Soviet Union is pushed back beyond the Urals, and although peace is not attained, the war eventually devolves into a messy conflict zone with no real open warfare. Horrible things happen in German occupied Eastern Europe.

>>51595014
>non-standard transliteration
1. There's no such thing as standard transliteration.
2. Unless we're talking about official documents and shit, where it's important.
3. The transliteration you suggest is shit.

>incorrect grammar
That's a valid point, I wasn't arguing about that.

>>51595224

After the war settles down, the Brits find themselves in a very awkward position, and attempt to remain roughly neutral, but are much more Imperialist, simply maintaining their Empire. India is lost just after the war, however, and Egypt to Italy during it. Australia and Canada increasingly aline towards the USA and desert them. The Empire crumbling, they end up in a silly war against Italy due to Egypt. Italy calls upon Germany to help, but get turned down, and the Brit-Pasta war drains both nations, and eventually leads to each losing most of their colonial possessions and declining as great powers.

Strongly backed by America, China rises much more quickly, and during the seventies emerges as the third great power, largely breaking away from the US sphere of influence.

Germany and France do not collapse as the irl Soviet Union did, so the cold war continues way past the modern day. The space race continues for longer, spurring efforts to reach and colonise other celestial bodies. Men land on Mars and eventually Titan. Technological progress is faster.

I think the setting would be best depicted as cyber-punk, probably set in London. Due to being in the officially neutral UK, which has good relations with both great powers resulting in rough tech parity, but also in economic ruin in many ways.

>>51595224
>Go the other way, make things worse for Japan. Have Pearl Harbour be the same, but Germany not declare on USA.

No. This idiocy comes up all the time at alternatehistory DOT com and has to be shot down just as regularly.

The US and UK and ALLIES in the war against Japan. Japan attacks them both Dec7th/8th. In fact, Japan HAS to attack them both. The US is now going to begin shipping all sorts of shit to it's ally the UK to help the UK fight Japan. However, there isn't referee like in your laser tag game to make sure the UK uses all that shit ONLY against Japan.

For example, the Spam being sent over to feed that UK munition worker doesn't have a label on it saying "You can only eat this when you're making an artillery shell that will be used against Japan and not Germany".

Germany is now looking at the US shipping tons of stuff to the UK because they're active allies. While Lend Lease was bad enough, there were still limits imposed by Congress to it. Now the fucking floodgates are open. Germany has to do something while it still can do something.

The US isn't ready for an ASW campaign in the Atlantic. Not enough escorts, planes, no centralized command, none of it. Sooner or later, Germany will have to try and stop the US shipping stuff to the UK because there's no way some of that stuff won't be used against Germany and Germany will never have a better opportunity to sink a shit ton of ships off the US East Coast than NOW.

So, Germany declares war on 10 December 1941, U-boats arrive off the US in January of '42, and they run wild in what is called the Second Happy Time until August.

Declaring war then allowed Germany to get it's best punch in before the US had the escorts & planes needed to defend it's shipping.

>>51557887
One where after the Imjin war, Korea got massively into dutch studies (basically european science books) and industrialized early. This led them to establishing the Asian Co-Prosperity sphere early and on confucian principle, dragging China and Japan into the industrial era with them. This led to Britain loosing the Opium War (even though this never stopped the opium trade) and Korea, China, and Japan allying with the Triple Alliance during WW1. As a result, WW1 dragged as the Co-Prosperity Sphere and the US had some truly Massive battles in the pacific.

>>51595399
There is definitely a standard transliteration for both Russian and Ukrainian; it's in use throughout the US government and the UN.

For the same reason there's a transliteration standard for Arabic that doesn't use "o" and "e" (phoenemes that don't exist in the Arabic alphabet).

As for the soft sign I know it seems dumb but it can make a huge difference.

>>51557887

Agriculture never succesfully catches on as a trend, anywhere in the world.

>>51598237
it said interesting, not boring

i mean i can see how you could confuse those two, they're almost the same thing

>>51598237
That would just be like a normal pre-agriculture stone age game.

>>51568293
OK can someone correct this retard? USA revisionism is not fun to hear.

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>>51598269
>boring

Perhaps the problem lies with you

>>51559289
In order to have China as a scientific advanced empire in the past it would need only two changes, noticing the potential of steam power and developing glass. The lack of glass manufacturing held back the developing of ancient China.
With steam and glass they could be way ahead by now and the world would be quite different.

>>51561025
Russia occupies Japan
Anime was never created

>>51598099
>it's in use throughout the US government and the UN
See point 2.

>I know it seems dumb
No, it is ugly, unreadable and doesn't make any difference, especially when English peakers don't even understand the difference between soft and hard consonants. AND it is not used in official documents.

>>51599029
I don't see any logic here.

>>51592961
I mean that's basically wet Rome.

>>51599609
>AND it is not used in official documents.
Uh.

If you say so, Tovarishch.

>>51599634
Do you see anime getting created in a commie country?
If anything it would be used as propaganda and not at all the Disney inspired stuff it was at the start.

>>51599634
The Soviets exercised heavy state control over media. That was why modern art was encouraged in the 50s and 60s, as a CIA psyop to fuck with the Soviets by demonstrating the reductio ad absurdiam of artistic freedom and making it successful.

>>51599884
... maybe?

I mean Rome wasn't super ahead tech wise, as much as they were incredibly willing to steal any idea they got close to and up the scale, so they had ALL the tech.

Their swords were Spanish, their armours from the celts, their fighting style was a refinement of Greek tradition, aqueducts from the Greeks (Although, again ,they upped the scale by A LOT), concrete they got probably from the Egyptians through the Greeks but they improved upon it to a huge extent.

Other people invented the things. But the Romans saw these things and saw their true potential.

>>51600120
Also Roman naval tech was PATHETIC for a long period.

In fact, even after they'd nicked Carthaginian ships it took until they'd eliminated all reasonable rivals in the mediterranian on land for them to be the undisputed naval power.
Sure they kept that up (It was a CAPITAL offense to teach a barbarian to build ships)

>>51599960
Kek, funny that you say this as there was a lot of "Disney inspired stuff" in Soviet animation. Like the 1957 adaptation of Snow Queen, which, incidentally, had a major influence on Hayao Miyazaki, one of the people who made anime popular.

>Setting where the Cathars survive and spread

This probably hasn't been done before, and with the right amount of perceived "intervention by god", you could handwave a lot of converts to the Cathars. It could end up right apocalyptic in the minds of the people of the time: Two megalith world-churches, both convinced that the other is the final enemy as prophesied by their religion.

Or it could turn out completely different. I think there's a lot of fertile ground there and I'm not just saying that because I think the Cathars are seriously interesting.