>the princess is wearing the same dress as your barbarian

>>51550293
>What are some games with good social combat rules?

Honestly I think they're all terrible. They're all weird, goofy abstractions that don't really feel anything like having a conversation or an argument. As far as I'm concerned the best system is good old fashioned roleplay, using skill checks when trying to convince someone to do or believe something they are otherwise not inclined towards, and the difficulty of the check and any bonuses to the player all depending on the specifics of the NPC's personality and the merits of the PC's argument/lie/pick-up line.

I'm a firm believer in that "social combat" is best left with only a few, simple rules, and for most of the focus to be on actually playing the roles.

My players typically engage in social combat without rolling any dice, or referencing or even utilizing any mechanics outside of the occasional magical/psychic/special ability, and they seem to prefer valuing their own abilities to lie and persuade or see through falsehoods.

Personally, I think they should be rolling dice at least a little more often, but I run games to their preferences, and they seem to have fun getting into that "the dice would only be a distraction" mood.

>>51550293

Burning Wheel's Duel of Wits is pretty entertaining.

>>51550293

Legends of the Wulin.

In that courtiers can use social-fu in combat time with just as much effectiveness as punches and fireballs.

It also has a pretty awesome set of rules for out of combat stuff, too.

LotW is built around Chi Conditions, narrative clauses tied to mechanical bonuses or penalties.

Courtiers (and other kinds of Secret Artist, but you're talking about social) can make use of Passion and Inspiration conditions, drawing upon someones base emotions or their higher ideals to manipulate them.

While it's possibly to directly create Conditions by influencing people, the easier and more efficient way is Discovery. The Courtier has to give the GM a compelling argument or evidence for why a condition of a certain type should exist, the more tenuous the evidence, the higher the DC. It encourages thoughtful observation and clever argument, but it still lets you try for something that seems outlandish.

The other awesome thing about this? Chi Conditions are never binding. No matter how much someone messes with you socially, you always retain complete control of your character. It's your choice whether you obey the narrative clauses imposed on you or accept the mechanical penalty.

It creates a really great dynamic for this kind of thing, where having a condition imposed on you is limiting but doesn't remove your agency as a player, while also giving you a way of influencing NPCs which is effective but also isn't flat persuasion based mind control.

>>51550457

Burning Wheel is definitely the go-to option here. You only use Duel of Wits for the really important stuff (everything else is done with simple checks and roleplay)

It lends itself well to scenes where two people are trying to convince a third party or where there's an audience that is trying to be won over. So you can use it for 'cowardly courtier and PC each try to convince the king to go to war/not go to war', or 'countess vs barbarian' each trying to convince the partygoers that the other person is a knuckle-dragging moron/uptight product of generations of incest.

FATE, hands down. The social arena rules are fantastic.

>>51550905
Could you elaborate? I've only played FATE once and it was a short session.

on the note of female barbarian does anyone have a picture of the ork girl getting laughed out of the ball by the humans? I need it

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>>51551143

She's clearly an orc, not an ork, but you're in luck, I remembered a bit of the opening post of the last thread I saw it in and punched that into the archive search, and presto, here we go.

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>>51551256

And as an extra pack-in bonus, I'm shipping you the sequel image, for no extra charge!

>>51551256
Hmm i couldnt find in the archives thanks for searching tho
God dammit the 40k is seeping into the rest of fantasy to me.

>>51550349
I use social stats just as a quantifier of how much information I provide to a player.

One of my only lengthy campaigns involved a cute gala on Mechanus. My character finally had a chance to wear her best, fanciest dress to try and impress the busty necromancer in the party, who she had been sweet on all along. Unfortunately, ruffians invaded the gala, though that did give my character a chance to show off the full power of her mighty Ring of Arming, which cued her transformation sequence into Pretty Guardian Abjurant Champion Paladin of Wee Jas.

>>51551279
Is this where half-half-orcs come from? I just can't endorse orc-breeding, though. They're terrible, unethical monster-people. It's very unfortunate.

>>51551279
And that's how the alliance of Modrengran and Clan Shatter-Tusk was formed.

>>51551279
My god, I have never seen this before and it is fantastic

Had no idea there was a sequel to that pic. Not the one who asked for it but thanks!

>>51551435

Piss off, snooty elf girl. Nobody likes you.

>>51551435
>HUMAN'ED

>>51551632
Hey, I'm just speaking truth here. Nothing wrong with the color green or being physically fit, but Orcs are just too immoral.

How can they be fixed?

>>51550349
GURPS uses social skills as a way to get a good first impression, and as a guideline for the GM to see how their gruff, cynical NPC should act when they encounter a bombshell blonde with high Sex Appeal skill.

>>51551435
so are uthgart, it works somehow.

One of the worst things I every had to play through was social combat.

>Okay guys, roll social initiative!
>'but GM I just want to-'
>The Lords son goes first. He cuts a witty remark and now you are at a -2 emotional disadvantage (or some nonsense).

Maybe it can be done well, but I never played the Dragon Age game again.

>>51551279
The jungle fever is strong in that guy

Social combat is for people who don't have the charisma and wit their character is supposed to display.

I've had plenty of players who couldn't act their way out of a wet paper bag, barely able to string together a coherent sentence while trying to describe their character's supposedly unerring wit.

On the flip side, I've had people who could easily make a living as a con man talking rings around people, while playing a character who's supposed to be half illiterate. When these guys start throwing around fifty cent words, I have had to stop them mid sentence, and pushed a dice into their hands.

Good roleplaying will give players a bonus to their rolls, while a lack of will cause penalties. I'm not looking for your rousing speak to be written down word for word, but I do expect some highlights, or a tone for it.

Plenty of minor social encounters I don't bother to ask for dice, but I'll leave it up to RNGesus to help decide the big important things. How well did your lie with the king go over? How rousing was that speech to the hungry horde before you? Lets see what the dice gods decide.

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>>51550293
>the princess is wearing the same dress as your barbarian (female) at the ball you were all magically compelled to attend
>Princess
>Same Dress
>The Princess buys her clothes off the rack.

>>51553152
Thread/

>>51550293
4e DnD skill challenge works great in difficult social challenge or interrogation where the idea is to involve everyone, not just the party face or the skill monkey.
You can fail a few times and you need to roleplay or/and roll successfully a few times before it is over and everyone move on with the result.

>>51553195

I have had a great deal of fun going on quests to make the snazziest outfits possible for characters.

Made from exotic, sometimes unique fabrics, studded with more gems than an entire dwarf clan worth of beard jewelry, enchanted with mostly useless but incredibly shiny magic, like flowing around them like they were underwater, or matching the color of the sky perfectly at all times of day.

If a princess is wearing the exact same dress as I am, I'm going to be very curious how she ripped the wings off a white dragon to make her corset, or used to teeth from a megalodon for scrimshaw jewelry.

>>51553017

That sounds terribly designed.

>Dragon Age
>a tie-in RPG

Well, there's your problem.

>>51550293
>What are some games with good social combat rules?
Social combat is a meme, you're better off just roleplaying and using the dice in extreme circumstances, like an elf trying to negotiate with a racist against elves or trying to convince a hitman not to kill them.

From personal experience, the only people who would object to this are the sort of rollplayers who you wouldn't want sitting at your table in the first place.

>>51553975

>the "X is a meme" meme

>>51551375
I should start doing this.

>>51554025
It's a long-standing idea that has persisted through the decades because of morons who got fed the wrong information yet is being repeated anyways because people don't know any better, sounds like a meme to me.

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>>51554053

>people disagree with me
>they must be "morons who got fed the wrong information"

You must be fun a parties.

>>51554074
>Dropping facts is edgy
Brings a whole new meaning to the term "rapier wit" I suppose.

>>51554122

>calling hot opinions "facts"

>>51554207
Well if it was an opinion then you wouldn't be that upset by it right? You'd just file it away and go about your business.

The reality is that I'm right and you're too chickenshit to admit it.

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>>51554260

Your debate skills are downright pathetic.

>>51554278
Yet here you, still replying.

>>51554288

What can I say, I'm bored, and your doucheyness is kind of entertaining.

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>>51554335
Unlike yours. Not him, you're a faggot and also he's right.

>>51550293
> Barbarian
> Social combat

Grappling rules. Suplex that bitch through the floor.

I've always been a fan of Monsterheart's system, the way strings and conditions work, it means that if the PCs want a good chance of influencing an NPC then they have to engage with the subject matter of the game, which should be the entire point of mechanics.

>>51550293
Barbarian loudly points out the fact, declares they can be dress-sisters and attempts to high five the princess.

>>51551902
From a narrative perspective, moving away from the Tolkein version where they're literally created by torture and dark magic. Most of the Warcraft (or certain disappointing webcomics) conceit of "poor misunderstood non-human races" comes from other settings removing the "I took an elf and corrupted it until I got THIS" backstory but still writing orcs as being inherently immoral with no logic behind it. If you remove the evil backstory, then you can and should remove the evil everything else.

You can still have them be the antagonist race if they're not evil. It's not like people never fight people when both sides think they're the good guys.

From an in-setting perspective, destroy the metaphysical root of the evil and the culture that has been built around it. The Roman Empire was great at assimilating groups and destroying cultures. You lose the battle, you get enslaved, but then we use our polytheistic religion to say "yes, your gods do exist, but clearly your war god doesn't have shit on Mars, so here's some literature on our stronger and better pantheon", and we use our law to say that if you work your way out of slavery then your kids will be full Roman citizens.

A fantasy Rome would have orcish citizens within three orcish generations of encountering the orcish lands. They'd be wearing togas and looking down on the next group of barbarians to be brought into the empire. Orcs, fixed.

Or the orcs would kick their asses. Rome doesn't have a great record vs hordes.

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>>51555520
>You will forever live in a timeline where Rome has fallen and all attempts to revive it have failed

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>>51555290
I like this idea, especially if the princess is one of the rebellious tomboy ones.

>>51555575
I blame Christianity. A polytheistic society says "I'm right, you're right, but I'm stronger so we're doing it my way", which is not great for the weaker guy but then nothing is.

A monotheistic society says "I'm right, you're wrong". It's inherently divisive. Even given how good Abrahamic religion is at spreading, it's even better at being divisive at itself, which it doesn't really have an answer for in the same way that polytheism has.

>>51555634
Romans also had the ridiculous trick of saying "Well look here your god is actually part of our pantheon and there's a temple planned for him (three minutes ago after we won the battle) so just come on in".
Also Abrahamic religions were different because of their exclusivity but also because of being some of the first religions where spreading was a goal in and of itself.

>>51555641
>Barbarians hate this! One weird trick to integrate disparate pantheons!

>>51555722
kek

>>51554034
You can throw in some dice rolls as well for a bit of uncertainty, but I find it works well with most players, whether they be new or experienced.

>>51550293
Does it matter if they are wearing the same dress?

>>51555800
It's a pretty big social faux pas.

>>51555781
Whenever your players want to roll for information, and you know what information you want to give them, it's very easy to ignore the roll.

>You rolled high! You learn [the thing I was going to tell you].
>Oh, you rolled low. You only learn [the thing I was going to tell you].

Never leave critical information to chance. Any more than usual, I mean. Players will still ignore or forget that stuff.

>>51555800
Even a sexless autist knows that that's a giant no-no for women.

>>51555824
Oh, not for giving information, just for when a social interaction would result in uncertainty you can roll instead of doing it all by GM fiat.

>>51550349
>the best system is good old fashioned roleplay
Finally someone that kno-
>using skill checks when trying to convince someone to do or believe something they are otherwise not inclined towards, and the difficulty of the check and any bonuses to the player all depending on the specifics of the NPC's personality and the merits of the PC's argument/lie/pick-up line.
God damn it.

>>51555800
Absolutely huge problem

>>51555830
He knows it, but he doesn't understand it. Women are generally not on speaking terms with logic.

>>51555946
It's pretty logical anon, especially in the case of a princess and a stinking (possibly literally) barbarian, as it implies that princess is equivalent in some form, any form, to a barbarian. It's also because the princess, being the princess, is legitimately special.

>>51555946
>People are generally not on speaking terms with logic
FTFY
Daily reminder that when arguing, the human mind is primarily attuned to convince, not reason.

>>51555815
Why is it a big social mistake?

>>51555968
See >>51555955
Also just customs in general
Like for example, did you know that in Asia, tipping a waiter is insulting because it implies that he's some sort of dirty beggar, and the same goes for AA'ing when eating with friends?

>>51555006

Hey, fuck you. Barbarians can be diplomatic. I played one a while back who was a well-dressed, well-mannered warrior-poet.

>>51555974
>AA'ing
?
>>51555955
YOU DIDN'T EXPLAIN SHIT

>>51555978
Grappling is plenty diplomatic.

>>51556002
>?
Splitting the bill, you're supposed to let them pay for the entire meal then return the favor next time.

>>51556002
>it implies that princess is equivalent in some form, any form, to a barbarian.
Not that anon, but come on!

Women(everyone) want to be and feel unique and special. Being in the same dress as another woman, especially at a big event they spent who knows how long preparing for, strikes at the heart of that.

>>51556033
You did explain. Nice dubs.

>>51556033
It has less to do with wanting to be special on its own and more to do with the fact that a princess is royalty, so a literal nobody and presumably shit-covered barbarian who can't even read or speak a proper language like Latin being in the same dress is a huge insult
Like, if a archduchess did it it'd be a faux pas anyway, but wouldn't be quite as insulting because it just means the princess isn't being that special. It's not the same as what amounts to a monkey wearing a royal tiara.

>>51555974
>Also just customs in general
>Like for example, did you know that in Asia, tipping a waiter is insulting because it implies that he's some sort of dirty beggar?
You just explained the logical reasoning behind it though.
>Only beggars get hand-outs
>You're giving me a hand-out
>Therefore you're calling me a beggar
It wouldn't surprise me if this same kind of thinking leads Asians to hate welfare.

>>51556088
Right but the thing is, those customs don't carry over to the west, where if you DON'T give a tip it implies you're either a huge miser or you're some sort of filthy beggar yourself who can't afford an extra ten bucksfor the guy who's been serving you. That's why I mentioned customs, because even though they have logic, the exact same action could mean something else under different customs.

>>51556033
>Women(everyone) want to be and feel unique and special.
While I don't want to dispute importance of uniqueness in social wear, there's certain comfort in uniformity of an uniform as a symbol of allegiance and togetherness.

>>51556104
>west = 'murrica
sensible chuckle

>>51556156
to be honest I haven't had time to travel to Europe yet so yeah

>>51551301
>>51551279
We need to do a variant of this with an Imperial and an actual ork.

>>51556104
I'm not so sure this is a custom thing as much as practical issue. In places where people expect tips, they are paid less and tips are assumed to be part of the wage. Europe doesn't do tipping nearly to the same extent as America, even for the same jobs in similar economic levels.

>>51556182
But the fact that they're paid less is actually a custom in and of itself, is it not?

>>51556161
Well, to be honest I have no idea what Quran says about tipping either, but custom of the old denizens is usually "round up to nearest 1" or "round up to nearest paper".

>>51555955
> Implying she isn't a barbarian princess

>>51556189
Yes, but it is not some profound eastern vs western mind things. It is just a thing.

>>51556009
So, 'splitting the bill' or 'going dutch' instead of some term nobody outside of your family knows.

>>51556251
Yeah but like...it's still a custom. Customs aren't profound to begin with, they're literally "so people decided to do this for no reason other than they had to decide to do something so their kids decided to do it too and so on".

>>51556285
It's a term widely used in Asia, excuse me.

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>>51556242
>implying barbarian "princesses" exist
>implying barbarian "princesses" are anything but glorified monkeys
*ohohoho's at you*

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>>51555955
I'll assume that barbarian is in D&D terms.
Rage can be fluffed as rage, battle trance, spirits of ancestors/nature helping out, anything. The barbarian in question might be well-civilised, just really good at fighting.

>>51556390
Well sure you can fluff them however you like. Pretty sure the default fluff (hurr) for the D&D barbarian makes them be essentially mudhut germans though.

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>>51556405
You don't need mud huts when you have Leomuld's Tiny Hut

>>51556449
To be honest I'd rather Barbarian be some sort of social class or roleplaying subclass, and Barbarian just renamed Berserker.

>>51551902
By making half-orc babies.

>>51553062
But orcs live in swamps!

>>51550293
>he needs mind-control railroading just to get PCs to attend a party

What kind of murderhobo sandbox are you running

>>51557017
More of a "this is an easy way to kekblock the 'inteligent' posters who would otherwise fill up the thread explaining why their characters would never find themselves in the situation described in the OP".

>>51556830
>But orcs live in swamps!
No, that's ogres.

Orcs, at least in my settings, dwell in plains and deserts, and whatever more fertile lands they can wrest from the humans and elves.
They don't usually bother dwarven lands. Mountains have no inherent value to them, and they'd rather let the dwarves extract the valuable metals and turn them into things, THEN steal the things.

The dwarves, seeing their metalwork as an extension of the mountainhome, take offence to this and wipe out any orcs they come across.

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>>51550293
I doubt the princess has the strength score for that.

>>51557587
Don't ogres generally live whereever the hell they want

>>51557803
Yes, which is mostly swamps. They get very angry if you try and use said swamp as containment, though.

>>51554260
It's /tg/, silly, being upset is part of the course.

Besides, the two examples you use are confrontations; a.k.a exactly the kind of things people mean by social combat. Nobody is gonna roll for saying hello to his family.

Ogres are plains creatures because hungary is just one big plain and nothing else except maybe a lake here and there.

>>51558046
In both examples, they're the extremes that I could see social combat being used for but that doesn't necessarily mean that the player in question can't use roleplay to sidestep both of those issues anyways.

>>51554260
>Well if it was an opinion then you wouldn't be that upset by it right? You'd just file it away and go about your business.
m8 I don't think you realize how this place works

>>51558178
I know how it works. Someone drops some hard truth and people get triggered and the thread reaches bump limit.

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>>51558178
I heard someone on /tg/ was trying to ignore an incorrect opinion

>>51558219
More often than not, the truth they drop is that they're a dumbass that needs to be mocked relentlessly.

>>51558337
And people wonder why the board is so shitty nowadays. You realize that the hide function exists for a reason and that responding to blatant trolls just encourages them to keep posting right?

>>51550293
How was this dress made?

>>51558494
I would assume that the top was made with sheer nylon and had embroidery stitched on to it. The skirt is probably some sort of cotton with a high thread count, considering its apparently smooth texture

>>51558494
>High Fantasy: magical tailor
>Low Fantasy: fairy godmother
>Realistic Fantasy: tailor
>Grimderp Game of Thrones bullshit: it was actually the formal dress for another royal female and it doesn't fit well at all but protocol dictates that you can't have it altered and also there's a spot of blood on the cuff from someone getting killed fifty years ago that your cruel stepmother points out to you

>>51552094
GURPS confirmed for teenager system

>>51551279
...Peter Quill and Gamora?

>>51558453
Like it or not, stupidity also functions as a source of entertainment, which is why (364 replies and 100 images) happens.
>nowadays
I've always been under the impression the quality has stayed about the same, just getting worse I'm the summer.

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>>51553152

You do realize that the reason dice rolls are used for deception etc. is to allow people to roleplay something they're not, right? Some people just aren't very convincing, but they should still be allowed to play a charismatic character. The way you seem to be handling it feels like asking someone to juggle to see if they get advantage or disadvantage on their dexterity check. Obviously hyperbole but my point is that relating your player's real-life abilities to in-game success defeats the purpose of roleplaying, which is pretending to be something that you're not. Plus, if a player comes up with a terrible attempt to convince someone but he rolls a 20 the resulting situation is fun in its own right. I'm probably just misinterpreting or exaggerating what you're saying but I'm not sure, if I am then tell me.

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>>51558642

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>>51558692
Isn't that Voltaire? The picture, not the quote.

>>51558655
Here's the thing that you and people like you need to understand. STR, DEX, CON, and WIS are stats that can accurately be quantified during game because there's no way to transfer the strength, flexibility/accuracy/speed, longevity, or perception of the player to their character.

INT and CHA on the other hand can be expressed through the player's roleplay and attaching a mechanic to determine the overall skill of the player rather than the character is where a lot of these idiotic instances of "lel I rolled a NAT 20 so he HAS to believe whatever I say!" or "why should I have to roll INT just to use fire against a fucking troll? generally comes from.

It also doesn't help that D&D is way too abstract when describing some of its conventions either.

>>51558655
Thing is, INT and CHA specifically often require the player to also be intelligent and charismatic (or at least understand the theory behind being charismatic) even with rolls. You can't ask the DM if you can roll for INT to see if your character can think of something when you as the player didn't think of it at all.

>>51559173
>You can't ask the DM if you can roll for INT to see if your character can think of something when you as the player didn't think of it at all.
Of course you can, that's the point of high INT - character is smarter than player and can think of something player didn't thought about.

>>51559239
But the point is you wouldn't even know to fucking ask. At most you might ask the DM "hey does my character know anything" and he'll tell you to roll INT, but you need to know to ask to roll INT.

>>51559301
>you need to know to ask to roll INT
Which is what you always do then there is situation which requires intelligence to solve, like you always roll DEX to solve situations which require dexterity. What's your point?

>>51559335
My point is that unlike DEX, where you roll to cross the Very Dangerous Bridge, rolling for INT is not always immediately obvious.

>>51559350
For example?

>>51550293

Fantasy Flight Games Star Wars RPG has excellent social mechanics

>>51559350
I think you might be mixing INTELLIGENCE with CREATIVITY, coming up with a solution is different than knowing the parts needed for that solution.
Intelligence means you might know how to make a rocket fly, not come up with the idea to maybe refabrish a toaster into a rocket.

>>51559424
Let's say for the sake of example that you're fighting a troll or something. In D&D, troll weaknesses are very obvious, they're weak to fire, but for some odd reason, fire isn't doing anything to this particular troll. You won't know that something is wrong when you initially use fire and realize that it's either ineffectual or making him stronger.

So now, you'll have to use a knowledge roll to discover that this particular troll is one that's weak to cold but strengthened by fire, which is a situation that you wouldn't automatically assume since trolls being weak to fire has been ingrained into D&D's history since its inception. So you're going to waste at least one action making it stronger before you realize what you're actually supposed to do.

By contrast, it's immediately obvious when confronted by a rickety bridge over a deadly cavern that DEX is going to be used, barring something like Fly, Air Walk, Misty Step, Teleport, or any other spell.

>>51559424
For example, when you're conversing with the Duke, it's not immediately obvious that you can roll for INT to show that you know that the Duke's family was the historical royal family 200 years ago but lost during a civil war, so the Duke's appreciation towards the King and his patronage of the Prince may be more than what it seems.
I mean sure, the DM might be able to let you roll (this is probably more of a knowledge check anyway).
Still, it's also sstrange when someone who has 30 INT acts like a bumbling buffoon in encounters or fails to piece together clues dropped at random through the session, or even just flat forgets important details because the PLAYER forgot that important sounding name even existed.

>>51556181

Doesn't really work though. A 40k ork would respond to the snooty Eldar gossip's cruel words with a hearty "WAAAAGGGH!" and proceed to kill everyone at the party in a rage. Also, orks are all dudes.

>>51558747
>>51558692
We all know frenchmen are basically the same.

>>51559559
>>51559556
I feel these are DM problems, he should make you roll for INT or knowledge on these cases, just as they might make you roll Perception to see if you heard some footsteps.

To pu it in DEX terms, if you are on a ship and it suddenly moves vilently, the DM will ask you to roll for DEX to see if you can keep balance, this is a reactionary roll, just like encountering an enemy might be.

If you try and walk across a narrow beam, you ask to roll DEX to see if you can keep your balance, this is an active roll, just like trying to see if you know anything about the duke from afar might be.

>>51550293
Barbarian does punk-up the dress to the point it looks distinctly different.

>>51558642
HE IS THE SUMMER

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>>51559712

Build him a throne, for the Summer has come!

>>51559625
The difference is that DEX saves are immediately obvious because the price of failure is taking damage.

Failing a knowledge roll just means that you don't recall something important before you learn it anyways through trial and error.

>>51559881
Bullshit, failing knowledge roll could easily mean your immediate death on spot, just as failed DX roll could mean nothing but your inability to jump high enough. And not is all cases you can have trial and error way.

>>51550293
Sorcery must be involved because before mass production the chances of someone else ( especially a noble ) having the same clothing as you would be extremely small because that shit is LITERALLY made to order.

>>51553195
Or clearly, they coordinated before the event, because they're friends since that time the barbarian saved her life, and as it turns out, this court has better things to do than reflect American High School values of aesthetics.
(No lewd meant to be implied, but hell, go there if you want to.)

>>51559897
No good DM worth their salt is going to put a "Save or Die" effect on a knowledge roll. Also, considering that most DEX saves revolve around staying balanced or dodging fireballs, the effects are immediately obvious to anyone who has even a general understanding of how the game works.

>>51559918

Could also be the plot of an evil tailor, or maybe one of the princess' rivals blackmailing the tailor into copying the dress so she can give it to a filthy barbarian and then say "Oh look, you're just like sisters!" at the party.
Man, there's a lot of story to be mined in this kind of thing. I never thought about it before.

>>51553361
Green Ronin is actually so proud of the AGE system, they've made it their generic fantasy system.
It even powers the most recent version of Blue Rose.
So, more accurate to say that 'trusting Green Ronin' is the problem.

>>51559953
>American High School values of aesthetics.

Nigga you dumb. The idea is far older than the USA, and can be found all over the place. Hell, in ancient china, you could be executed for wearing yellow, because that was exclusively worn by royalty and they passed laws to make sure nobody could wear the same thing as the Emperor.

>>51555578
...If I knew who the character on the right was, would I hate her as much as the character on the left?

>>51555641
This is overlooking the fact that Romans actually had no native theology whatsoever. There are important native Roman gods that, by Caesar's time, nobody actually remembers what they're the god of; like, they appoint priests, and the priests do rites, but they don't know why anymore. Foreign gods getting adopted wasn't because of some idea of inclusionism, it was because it was easy as fuck for foreign religions to win the debate about which religion is better, by actually knowing what they were worshipping.

>>51557581
There are several 'd100 reasons to go to the dungeon' charts out there.
It occurs to me that we also need 'd100 reasons to go to the party' as well.

>>51558546
See, in the first three, I can see how we got to the wacky social faux-pas shenanigans, but, in that last example, how the fuck are there two identical dresses?

>>51560086
>no native theology
But they did. They had gods with no direct counterpart in other parts of the world, they had for a long time assimilated and cross-influenced with sabines, greek colonies, carthaginians, gauls, and so on. They had rituals and oracles from the time of roman kings, and special rituals including the infamous god-bribing one.

>>51560014
Okay, I'll bite.
If you're running the kind of campaign where this shit matters, then you don't need the social rules, because clearly the only reason the barbarian wore the dress was to start a fight. (There'd be no way for her to 'accidentally' acquire a forbidden dress, so it's on purpose.)
If you're not running a game where bullshit like that matters....then it doesn't fucking matter.
And no, I don't feel bad at all about dismissing court etiquette of past civilizations as American High School bullshit.

>>51559967
>No good DM worth their salt is going to put a "Save or Die" effect on a knowledge roll.
Why? It isn't much worse than Save of Die on DEX roll, or Save or Die on CON roll.

>>51555634
I'd argue Christianity held the Empire together for awhile longer. (fuckers forgetting bout the Eastern Roman Empire)

By the time of Constantine Rome had long stopped conquering externally, there were way too many internal splits and fractures. Hell Constantine's father had been one of a quartet of co-ruling emperors who eventually fell to infighting. When Constantine adopted Christianity he gave his troops another common identity, and when he made everybody convert he erased (for a time) the very significant local religious differences that y'all are glossing over. Hell, within decades of the first Christian emperor the now legitimized church was an integral part of the government, often times the bishop of an area would also become the governor, and vice versa. Early basilicas were built as slightly tweaked governor palaces, and many churches already bringing in the tithe were also tasked with collecting state taxes.

>>51560047
Probably not. She's from Wakfu, I believe.

She's basically just fucking crazy.

>>51560150
I was just talking about the princess. In the last two, the situation wouldn't arise, so it's a who point.

>>51560273
SoD vs. a DEX save usually implies something like falling down a chasm that's several km deep and SoD vs. CON is usually something like Power Word: Kill or disintegrate or something along those lines that's designed to stop your heart or just outright destroy you.

Even then, the game gives the players plenty of ways to either boost their saves or become outright immune to the effects anyways, provided they cast the right spell in time.

It also goes without saying that people don't like Save or Die effects in the first place.

>>51553225
>4e
I knew one of you idiots would try to shoehorn this piece of shit in.

>>51560814
>i don't have any actual criticism so i'm going to bitch and moan about nothing

>>51560406
>CON is usually something like Power Word: Kill
>Power Word: Kill aka Console Command:KillActor
>saving throw
A-anon, I have bad news...

>>51553195
No, as in, the princess and the barbarian are together enclosed in a single piece of fabric.

>>51561152
My bad, I was thinking of "finger of death," not "power word kill".

>>51560213
She could have been tricked into wearing it without realizing the faux pas. She is a barbarian, after all. The various nobility and gentry don't say anything because they're rather looking forward to seeing how the shit goes down. Either the loathsome barbarian is finally removed from polite society and executed as she deserved, or she kills the Princess in a rage, thereby furthering their own schemes since it means the heir to the throne is now her weak-willed brother who can easily be controlled by one of their own progeny once a marriage can be arranged!

>>51560406
>It also goes without saying that people don't like Save or Die effects in the first place.
I love them
I've been playing a pure wizard archwraith (actually just a normal wraith but she calls herself an archwraith because chuuni) character lately. The rest of the party basically has to roll to convince her that in fact power word: kill is not the solution to every problem, and that in fact humans don't appreciate being raised as wraiths and "freed" from their bodies.

>>51561607
>The rest of the party basically has to roll to convince another PC

Anon you could have just said your game was shit right away.

>>51561818
I'm the player, anon
And to be honest I'd say I'm pretty good at realizing when I'm being that guy, since I've known these guys for years and can tell when they're annoyed
They don't literally have to roll
There was just a mini-arc where the wraith came to an understanding that people don't like being killed after a lot of prodding from the other players.

>>51559496
"Buy our shitty dice!" system and rocket tag combat. The social mechanics weren't by any means fantastic either. My only good experience with the game was because a good GM knew when to throw the rules out the goddamned window.

Roll one d6 for every five minutes of social interaction. If you roll a 1, you fall down and everybody laughs at you. If you roll a 6, you fall down but manage to catch yourself gracefully. Anything in between, you fall down but it's not funny, just awkward.

That's the only rule for social situations I ever use.