Should fighters always have the best to-hit of the classes?

>>51523853

Depends on what you want the class to be.
A "fighter" doesn't have to be entirely offensive in his abilities.

>>51523853
5E fighters are the best melee class in the system.
The fuck are you talking about?

>>51523947
Everyone in 5e has the same to-hit generally. Fighters do have more attacks though, and I think that works out better

>>51523947

He's talking about outdated mechanics and his inability to build an effective character.

I thought that was obvious.

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>>51523853
In 5e, all characters have a proficiency bonus based on their level, which is the same for any class. This is added to weapon attacks and skills they're proficient with, spellcasting, etc.
All classes, if built to the point buy/standard array "max" main attack stat of their class, can get at best +5 to hit at level 1. Fighters actually have the chance to increase this the fastest; While most classes get ability score increases at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19, Fighters get an extra one at 6 and 10, so you can max your main attack stat the fastest.
Also, they can instead spend these ASIs on Feats (and while there are no printed "weapon expertise" feats, there were some in playtest some time ago), and have access to the Archery fighting style (as do Rangers) which gives a bonus to hitting with ranged attacks.

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5e's pretty good about this. Everyone is useful in combat. Balance isn't perfect (you can't make it perfect without making every class too similar) but every class works and is good at it's thing.

I really like how they handled fighters, in particular. Action Surge is a great ability, and nicely represents how Fighters are skilled at moving quickly and decisively in combat. When people with less experience freeze up or hesitate in the chaos, the Fighter seizes his moment. It's only one round, but for that round it's better than the Haste spell, which I think is important. Magic is powerful and versatile, but Charm isn't better than a rogue's persuasion, and buffing up with spells doesn't equal years of combat experience.

>>51524126
>(you can't make it perfect without making every class too similar)

this meme will never die

>>51523853
>2017
>still playing a class based game
>I am happy people can enjoy different playstyles and a diverse gaming market is a strong base for a good community

>>51524183
Or making it a strict rock paper scissors system wherein there's no diversity of playstyle.

>>51525352
I know multiple weighed RPS games that manage to have diverse playstyles.

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>>51525024

I never really liked D&D before 5e.

I moved to a new city, made some new friends who wanted to learn to game. I used 5e as their first game. It was simple enough to learn quickly, and complex enough to hold their attention. As they had fun with spell selection and tactics, they gradually became more comfortable with roleplaying.

I was planning on teaching them a new system after the 5e campaign, but we all had so much fun that we decided to continue playing in our homebrew D&D setting, with our first party as legendary historical figures.

>>51524126
>(you can't make it perfect without making every class too similar)
Anima says hi

>>51524126
What's monk's thing?

>>51525688
Spamming stunning fist.

>>51525688
Stun gun, they're worthless at everything else if you allow feats

>>51523947
>best melee class in the system
Barbarian, Rogue, Paladin, and the Revised Ranger all say hi. Fighters aren't even better at combat than other classes for all their ineptitude in every field outside it.

>>51525667
>Anima
>Perfect balance

are you shitting me

>>51525730

Oooooh so you don't actually know the system. Okay, now it makes sense.

>>51525754
Good job.

>>51523853

Reddit would you please fucking die?

>>51525730
Wat.

Fighter are the single target DPR kings. Short of multiclassing (Sorclocks and builds that dip fighter for action surge anyway) and some broken spells (animate dead skele-army, polymorph simulacras, etc.) they are like a good 20% above everyone else, with absolutely ridiculous burst damage.

>>51525835
Sorlock doesn't surpass Fighter in single target damage in reality, sure it deals more damage in the long run but Battlemaster ends fights before the Sorlock surpasses him

>>51525880
It matches it over 4 turns. I think that's a good estimate length.

Also, you could go full retard, tank your spell levels further, and also dip 2 levels fighter to match it more closely.

>>51523853

Fighters should be remover from the game and replaced by an actual warrior or soldier class.

>>51525730

I think you may need to become open minded to the probability that you're a big fuckin idiot.

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>>51523853
>>51525730
What the fuck

Are you fucking retarded

Fighter is so good in 5e that it's ridiculous when you compare it to 3.5/Pathshit

A Battlemaster Fighter with a polearm or a hand crossbow is only beaten out in usefulness in utility non-murder situations

>>51524126
The best use for action surge isn't for fighting with weapons. Fighter 2/Caster X

>>51525948
Action Surge doesn't let you cast another spell unless the spell has a casting time of a bonus action, thereby limiting it's potential compared to an Action Surge of two extra Great Weapon Master/Sharpshooter attacks.

>>51525992
Read again. IF you cast a bonus action spell, you may only cast a cantrip with your standard. It says nothing about having 2 standard actions to cast spells.

Dunno about fighter, but I'm having a blast with my Paladin (devotion)/Warlock (undying light)/Sorcerer(draconic), sure, I gave up a lot of ASIs

>>51526026
>Standard action

Do other editions suffer from "I didn't read the rules" anywhere as bad 5e does?

>>51526088
Yes, a lot

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>>51526043

>>51526114
I still dont' see standard actions in there

>>51526100
I figured. I wasn't into table top gaming for the release of 3.PF or 4, so I imagine most of that was just a long enough period of time for people to adapt and bother to read. I guess 5e is still new enough that people haven't argued the rules out for themselves yet.

>>51526114
"Standard" is a keyword form 4e. 5e does not use minor or standard keywords. 5e uses action, bonus action, and reaction. While this is a pedantic technicality, you're still dumb so whatever.

>>51526141

>regular action
>additional action
>and a bonus action

it definitely specifies 3 actions including the bonus

>>51526161
>Regular
>Additional
>Bonus
No Standard though

>>51526148
People will always read what they want to read

>>51526148
>"Standard" is a keyword form 4e
And 3.PF.

It had been in use for, oh, 15 or so years. And it means the same fucking thing.

So, to quote you
>you're still dumb so whatever

>>51526088
I've never played 3e with anyone who knew the rules and I DM'd 3e for years without knowing the rules.

It's kind of like monopoly, if the system is enough of a mess you won't notice that everyone at the table is winging it.

>>51526114
>you can't cast a second spell after casting a spell that takes a bonus action
>action surge gives you a second action
>nothing says you can't cast a second spell after after one that uses an action
The best part is, this can't even be blamed on 5e's abuse of natural language and assumptions, since it's even more concise to write
>you can only cast one spell of level 1 or higher per turn
so it has to be assumed that it was intentional.

>>51526228
>caring about 3.PF
No thanks.

>it had been in use for, oh, 15 or so years
That's neat. It's not a keyword in 5e.

>it means the same fucking thing
No, you equate the two in your brain, so it means the same thing to you.

You wouldn't call a touch down a goal or a home run, even though they are functionally identical.

>>51523853
It goes without saying that fighters should always be the best at fighting, whatever that entails, but it's fine if specialists are better at their specialties compared to the more general fighter.

>>51526334

Except, in the very beginning of the PHB, it states that specific rules trump general rules.

So yeah, getting an extra action from action surge does allow you to cast two spells. Concentration still applies, so it's not like you're gonna break anything.

>>51526334
"You can't cast another spell during the same turn."

>>51525730

Two-Weapon Paladin has amazing burst damage, perhaps best burst damage in the game before very high levels when a Fighter can attack you something like 8 times in a round several times an encounter. But a Battlemaster always has more sustained damage than a Paladin, and better damage per round than any other class besides Paladin.

>>51527484
>A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, [... and y]ou can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Doesn't say jack shit about spells with a casting time of an action.

>>51525940
>hand crossbow
Why not a heavy crossbow?

>>51527388
5e has a rule that when you cast a spell, any other spells you cast that turn have to be cantrips. So yeah, you can cast 3+ spells a turn, but all but the first need to be 0th-level.

>>51528458
God fucking dammit I even made an image>>51526114

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFtcLJVN8yg

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>>51524126
> fighter is a spellcaster in 5e again, with once-per-day abilities like second wind and action surge that refresh like spells

Yeah it's trash.

>>51525459
Feel free to name some then, faggot

>>51523853
of all the PHB classes, a battlemaster has the most impressive damage per encounter
due to the ability to action surge, and add a superiority dice to each attack

>>51528562
but anon, weren't there a shitload of 1/day abilities in 3.5 ;)

>>51528413
Bonus Action attack with Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter

>>51524025
This. The ASI at 6 and 10 usually make them the best to hit anyway. Most games I've played in that started at a standard lvl 1-3 end at or before lvl 12. At this lvl, the Fighter has 5 ASIs, most other classes have 3.

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>>51524126
>Charm isn't better than a rogue's persuasion

>>51528735
have you actually read the charmed condition? (that said, the bard with expertise in persuasion and charm person would be the best at diplomacy)

>>51525835
The pally might have better single target damage, I think.

Of course, this is offset by only being better a couple times a day.

>>51528692
Not for fighters, and not until late in the splatbooks when that fuck-wit Merals got his hands on the system and decided to start dumping resource management bullshit onto martials in an attempt to make them "better"

>>51528562
Action surge refreshes on short rests. I feel like second wind refreshing after a night of sleep makes sense?

>>51528565
Yomi, Starcraft, fighting games in general.

>>51528803
Stunning fist was a fighter bonus feat.

>>51525940
>A Battlemaster Fighter with a polearm or a hand crossbow is only beaten out in usefulness in utility non-murder situations

DnD player mentality, folks. Cancerous game for a cancerous fanbase.

>>51530080
I have no idea what you're insinuating. How is this a cancerous mentality?

>>51530080
Ooh! Are you Rage-anon? Can I have a rant with a side of virtriol?

>>51530080
>>51530302

I think what he's objecting to is "only" non-murder situations, implying anything non-murder is just side content or whatever

>>51523853
Fighters should have the best balance of resilience, damage and versatility out of any martial class. In 5e they're outshone in every way by the Paladin and Barbarian except as a ranged option (in which case you're still probably better off going with a Rogue or Warlock).

>>51530841
In damage battlemaster isn't outshone by anyone but ok

>>51525940
>Fighter is so good in 5e that it's ridiculous when you compare it to 3.5/Pathshit
Well first, that wasn't really my experience at all, and second why the fuck are you comparing it to the Fighter instead of the thousand Fighter+ classes in 3.5?

>>51528853

Second wind refreshes on short rests. The only ability Fighters have that require long rests is Indomitable.

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>>51528853
>Yomi

DeGray and his spirit of justice waifu were the shit.

>>51525688
choking on dicks, mostly

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>>51531262
>were
>implying

Is battlemaster the one with cool maneuvers and stuff or the one that's just "you get a pile of bonuses, keep rolling regular attacks forever with no deviation or variation"

>>51523947
No. Well maybe, but only if your game is 90% combat, in which case play dnd tactics, better known as 4e instead.

Fighters are only good at combat, and combat in 5e is so boring I would never actually play a fighter.

>>51535381
Battle Master has the maneuvers. Champion is underwhelming the one that's basically just crit bonuses.

>>51535547
Ah, good. That's the one that seemed cool, glad to hear its also mechanicaly good.

>>51535574
Since then we've got some other options too from Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide and the Unearthed Arcana.

Banneret: a lot like the Battle Master except focused on buffing allies instead of control.

Scout: non-magical ranger.

Cavalier: mounted combat

>>51535745
>>51535574
Scout and Cavaleir also have maneuvers like Battle Master, just not as many so they're more specialized.

>>51535745
Your missing all the new UA options
Samurai
Knight
Arcane Archer
Sharpshooter

>>51527388
>Except, in the very beginning of the PHB, it states that specific rules trump general rules.
Exactly.

General: you get another action.

Specific: you can only cast one spell of level 1 or higher a turn.