How advanced can the technology of a nation be before it will

the answer can vary between "as soon as we hit the enlightenment" and "never"

>>51522035

Depends on the power level of the magic... but it seems more likely to me that the wizards would move to the country with the higher standard of living.

>>51522048
This. OP, you need to specify the power levels we're dealing with here

>implying the curbstomp wouldn't happen the other way around

There's zero information present to actually base a conclusion on.

>>51522035

This depends on two very important questions:

1: how powerful is the magic? If magic is weak and can barely touch the other side, then you don't even need technological advancement, just enough of a bother to go hit those nerds with clubs until they squeal.
If magic is strong enough that a wizard can snuff out the life of another person at a distance, but they still need to cast the spell over and over again to kill multiple people, then guns will likely level the playing field.
If literally anyone who speaks the right words, regardless of whether they actually know what they mean and even if they cannot read the book, can summon a genie and wish for stuff that changes the world... tech of any level doesn't stand a chance.

2: Assuming something in the middle, is magic ALLOWED to advance? Most tech vs magic debates seem to let technology grow exponentially but magic is stagnate as fuck.
Because if wizards are allowed to research new spells roughly as well as engineers are allowed to invent new machines, the idea that magic users won't come up with a magical protection against bullets/a spell that instantly ignites all gunpowder in the area is dumb. And once wizards have a reliable counter to guns, the tech users have to go REALLY advanced to get the edge on them again, stuff like high altitude bombing.

Wizard vs muggle with a shotgun, etc.

Since you never specified how powerful magic is, it's impossible to answer. I'm inclined to say never, because magic isn't constrained by the laws of nature, while even the most advanced technology is.

About as soon as they can reliably hold the orbitals. This presumes the wizards don't have telescopes and detect them.

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>>51522709
>wizards
>no astrology
Mate...

>>51522326
It all inevitably becomes Magitech, Fusion of Magic and Science

>>51522035
Assuming D&D magic as used in D&D lore, not too advanced (modern day technology would be massive overkill). Assuming D&D magic as used by munchkins, nothing will ever suffice.

>>51522084
Wizards are welfare queens

Tower of the Unknowable, more like the Tower of Handouts! Get a real job, you pack of beardy moochers.

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>>51522035
>wizard who can make three fireballs a day
>howitzer which can fire as many times as it has shells

Gee, I don't know...

You know how in Shadowrun the freaking Native Americans beat the shit out of the US military in 2012 when the magic came back?

More advanced than that.

>>51524529
Shadowrun is the gonzoest of gonzo settings. What happens there means nothing.

>>51524237
But consider the logistics of each. While becoming a Wizard may take a great deal of time, a howitzer would require the scientific and technical expertise, not to mention the infrastructure required for it, as well as infrastructure of the component parts, and for those, etc.

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>>51522035
1945

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>>51522035

Depends (obviously) on how powerful magic is but also on how it's employed. The "first thought" of using it for, like, fireballs and lightning bolts and what not does look cool on paper and it's true that those would very quickly fall behind modern firearms, and we've all seen the copypasta about how many dragons a modern fighter jet with heat guided missile will blah blah blah but that's far from the full extent of what could be done with magic. We're talking about turning armies invisible. Teleporting commandos behind enemy lines. Looking into the future to predict and preemtively counteract the enemy's tactics. Mind controlling opponents. It's not the "magical means of replicating modern weaponry so the playing field is more even" type spells you need to worry about. It's the spells that accomplish things that a modern military could only dream of.

>>51522349
>Wizard vs muggle with a shotgun, etc.
[unsourced statement posted enough times, citation no longer needed]

>>51522035

That depends on what level of advancment the magic is. Much like the difference between a musket and a minigun, there is a major difference between being able to shoot fire from your fingers and conjuring a meteor.

Magic has advancment levels too, you know.

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>>51528755
>Muggle with a Shotgun

>>51522035
You haven't defined enough parameters for me to answer that question without a lot of assumptions.

Therefore, I choose to assume that it's an epic fantasy setting, and the answer is 'never'.

The nation has an industrial revolution and begins producing crude guns, while the wizard laughs and nukes their economy with his mind.

The nation has a technological revolution and brings armoured vehicles to the fight, and the wizard laughs and lances them all with ten million volts.

The nation has an information revolution and fires a hundred nuclear missiles from half a world away. The wizard laughs and obliterates them all, then creates a hurricane to carry the radioactive fallout back to the nation which fired them.

The nation reaches the singularity, the AI guardians positioning a thousand satellites above the wizard, all gathering power to fire a catastrophic, continent-devastating laser. The wizard looks momentarily shocked, surprised by the power of the attack, before his illusory body is destroyed and he summons a swarm of angels to destroy all the satellites safely from his tower, which is hidden in seventh dimensional non-space on the plane of vague questions and faggot OPs.

>>51522035
A lot depends on the demographics of the two nations in question and the relative degree of militarization between them.

There's really not nearly enough to go on but... just taking a swing I'd say if "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" and magic exists separately from technology then the technology necessary to "completely curbstomp" a nation that has actual magic would have to be advanced sufficiently beyond our own modern understanding so as to appear to be magic even to a 21st century human living in a first world nation.

This is assuming that by "curbstomp" you mean conquer the magic-using nation without sustaining significant casualties and or expending significant resources to do so.

At the very least you're going to need some form of remote communication, telegraphs or preferably two-way radio as well as public education to ensure that most if not all of the citizens of the technological nation-state possess at least a late 19th/early 20th century understanding of chemistry, mathematics and other topics to form an industrial base built around mass-produced steel and precision machining. Since wizards fly I'd say you need to bump that forward by 10 or 15 more years to make sure that you have mechanical heavier-than-air flight and another 10 more at least to make sure you can send and receive those radio transmissions wirelessly from a man-portable platform since wizards can communicate remotely with magic.

Modern hygiene and medical practices wouldn't hurt either since you can bet a wizard fighting a war is going to hit some blankets with a disease spell and give your army typhus or cholera or something nasty like mummy rot.

I'd say to be safe you'd need at least 1930s levels of technology to take on even a medieval tech level kingdom that uses magic as presented in, DnD for example at all, let alone "curbstomp them."

>>51528233
It's generally not the relatable, wary soldier hitting the button. It's a bunch of fuckers in suits.
They probably won't even bother hitting the button because nukes work better as threats than usable weapons. The problem being that they destroy and irradiate all the stuff you supposedly want for yourself. Anyone that actually requires a nuking to defeat probably has nukes themselves which means you don't directly fight each other in the first place.

Also loads of shitty generic fantasy settings have magical nuke equivalents. Some kind of crazy crystal that explodes into a purple particle effect leaving "felltaint" or "manawarps" or some shit.

That picture is retarded and you are retarded for posting it.

>>51530744
>on the plane of vague questions and faggot OPs

I think I love you...

>>51527295

A wizard, similarly, needs an educational infrastructure or knowledge base, plus an infrastructure that can get him his spell components.

No amount of time will produce a wizard if there is no language, no way to teach that language, no books on magical technique, and no way to obtain the necessary materials.

Basically, each is a product of unique infrastructure bases, one with mass industrialism and technical knowledge, one with a magical knowledge base and presumably a trade base to obtain what is needed. If we're talking about competing infrastructure, individual wizards can Seven-League-Stride but contemporary industry can dismantle a mountain and ship it to you across an ocean or maintain ridiculous volumes of global trade consistently.

The level of technology necessary to steamroll a world of magic would be 1918. Assuming military arms have advanced to the same point as the end of the Great War this will give armies the equipment needed to wage warfare on an industrial scale. Mass produced arms, rations, bullets, even ships and airplanes. Artillery capable of lobbing shells over a mile that are filled with horrible toxic gases. Most of this thread talks about Magic and it's prevalence and effectiveness in combat but what is important to remember is warfare is not entirely based on fighting the enemy. It's outbuilding them, outnumbering them, and destroying whatever they need to conduct a war.

By 1918 ships are tough enough to blocky ports, planes advanced enough to clear the skies and bomb cities to rubble. With Magic you do not have to kill the wizard, just the country that surrounds them. Armies are not comprised solely of witches and warlocks, and it takes years of training to become proficient. A modernized nation can train a solider in as little as a month.

In a war between two nations as different as these, the first engagements will determine the result. When met on the field of battle, the fantasy army will be slaughtered by these unknown marvels before they can react. Initial casualties will be horrendous and the war could end right there.

Now if it dissolves into a war of attrition then it could go either way, but with such a devastating first strike it could shock a nation so greatly that they'd be afraid to keep fighting.

>>51534332
>No amount of time will produce a wizard if there is no language, no way to teach that language, no books on magical technique, and no way to obtain the necessary materials.

a sorcerer called
he said "wizards are nerds"

>>51534650
Laugh at him as his mighty repertoire of 15 spells fails to cover the tiniest fraction of the situations it'll have to in warfare.

>>51522035
Depends on the magic.

>>51535335
Weren't we assuming d&d magic?

>>51528233
>posting HFYwank on a blue board
shame on you, anon.

>>51536348
>d&d magic
hahahahagood luck.

>>51522035
Is magic part of setting's natural laws?

If yes, magical and technological progress are literally indistinguishable.

If no, magic is too weird and wild and defies all expectations. So most likely we're gonna get a mutual destruction scenario.

If it's a half-assed fusion of first and the second point, then it depends on which side the author with and which side he's gonna wank about.

>>51536348
Which edition? Because a 3.5 shadow could destroy the entire muggle world; it can only be harmed by magic or magic weapons, and reproduces exponentially.

According to David Weber, late 19th century.

>>51522035
>How advanced can the technology of a nation be before it will completely curbstomp a medieval-like nation with magic?
I just noticed an extra layer of stupidity to this question.
>How advanced can the technology of a nation be
>How advanced can
>can
As advanced as they like, really.

Now if we were to ask how advanced does the technology of a nation need to be, then we're back to the levels of stupidity already addressed.

>>51536869
"How advanced can it be before" implies the existence of a maximum, a level of development past which technology will curbstomp.

>>51536898
>"How advanced can it be before" implies the existence of a maximum, a level of development past which technology will curbstomp.
I assert that "curbstomping" requires a will and desire to "curbstomp" and will not automatically occur once technology reaches a certain threshold.

>>51537000
The conflict is very much inferred from the OP.

>>51524529
And in anima christians do the same.
But with near zero magic and highest tech being first crusade/spanish reconquista tier weaponry and 12 magic swords given to 12 apostles and protogod jesus (still not a wizard just good at murder). And they literal genocide at worst and kick supernatural beings out of their 1/3 of the world so hard they put it on quarentine.


Question hinges on many factors, mostly magic power and army sizes.

>>51524237
You can't sneak a howitzer into enemy's territory.

>>51537213
Also; most of said supernatural races are all born wizards or psykers.

1 in one million humans is a wizard. Maybe less psykers.

>>51537271
>You can't sneak a howitzer into enemy's territory.
Anon, there are many, MANY wars that will beg to differ.
People have snuck airplane landing strips into other people's countries.

>>51537213
Also warhammer fantasy, where hyper powerful ancient wizard monster frogs still lose to shit shoveling peasants.

>>51537340
Didn't the Slaan basically win the setting, since all the lizardmen survived the Sigmarification of the Universe basically unharmed by leaving in their pyramid spaceships?

>>51537213
I'm pretty sure that Jesus had ki and the apostles had supernatural powers. Christians in anima are hypocrite as fuck, they're supposed to exterminate magic users and magic creatures yet the head of the Inquisition is literally a wizard that summons magic monsters. And basically every relevant inquisitor in the setting has supernatural powers too. But it's a-ok because "imma saint lol".

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>>51537271
Not with that attitude.

The thing is that while tech can be mass-produced to outperform the bulk of casters, a single top-tier mage is devastating. Via simulacrums, teleports, polymorphs, and curses, they can go straight for the enemy leaders with ease.

>>51522035
How powerful magic are we talking? Because I'd say as soon as they're able to establish air superiority, than the more advanced nation has an extremely high chance of winning no matter what.

>>5153936
Bulk of the army where normal folk, plus the only actual supernatural one was jesus (being a protogod and basically a less magic and more violent emperor) and I think one apostle had the gift the rest where martials (anima martials). And again solomon and imperium hyper tech goes full clarke.

>wizard
Romeo is considered HIGH HIERARCHY light elemental, basically an archangel. That also acts eldritchly and weird to normies. And he doesnt summon they bend a knee (or mikael sends em).

>>51540134
>>51539368
Woops.

Also ki isnt magic, since all but the dead (nemesis can be counted) can learn ki (that is why there is no ki yehudah(magic supremacist))

What if it's Mage: The Awakening magic?

>>51533934
But remember, you can mass-produce planes in weeks, it takes decades of study to make a wizard who knows fly
and in my mind wizards are RARE things in fantasy. a kingdom might have double digits of wizards who can cast 3rd level spells

>>51541935
Then all of their tech can be controlled using 2/10th(Forces and Matter) of what supernal magic holds dominion over.

>>51524038
Powerful wizards. But no Wizard starts as powerful one.

>>51536348
Why would we do that?