/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>51500053
>How does one counter the Plain?
Make a Demon Pact then call it in.

>>51500053
only a plain can defeat a plain...

>>51499982
>>51500015
It's also the only gameline (along with Mummy) that comes close to rivaling Mage in terms of oomph. The big three.

>>51500053
>How does one counter the Plain?

Unleash spirits or ghosts against them.

Use all political, social and technological resources short of physical violence against them and their loved ones until they kill themselves.

>>51500053
>plain
Shoot them?

>>51500074
The techno-espionage kind of demon, or the regular "I will stick my dick in reality's ear for your benefit if you only worship me like the slave you are" kind?

So could a group of plains armed with cellphones and a blog defeat a Antediluvian?

>>51500214
Nothing can defeat a legion of SJWs, Anon.

>>51500111
A mage and a demon walk into a bar-tomb...

I don't know where to go from here but it is probably pretty tight

>>51500214
Well, any one of them can automatically force it to flee, taking at most 1 damage in the process. Does that count?

>>51500234
>Not playing a Stigmatic Banisher Mage Against the God Machine

>>51500200
why not both?

>>51500263
I'd watch them fight. They both have sweet 'super mega battle' forms.

>>51500274
Cthulu vs wild wild west.

>>51500188

>the plain takes exactly one damage
>you are forced to leave them alone
>participating in violence in any sense is now a breaking point for you for the rest of your life
>none of this required a dice roll of any sort
>except for the plain take g one lethal, I mean.
> It's actually pretty likely you won't actually do any damage.

>>51500053

You beat the roll.

Seriously, do you all just make Resolve and Composure your dump Attributes?

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>>51500082
It's like a Wobbuffet duel, the first one to take a violent action loses.

I'm probably going to call Plains "wobbuffets" or "metapods" from now on.

>>51500214
Some one should convert the rules over to oWoD so Caine can lose to something new.

>>51498147

There are archmaster tI'm mages who are members of the time patrol in Genius's cosmology who would certainly take offense to you attempting to erase other archnasters.

>>51500312

1. Only if they have those Merits
2. The first one is once a session
3. Justify it and beat the roll, you probably have enough Willpower.

Ya'll are meming a mediocre Mortal Template way too hard in an edition full of bullshit Merits.

With another Plain

>YOU ARE BEING RECORDED
>NO, YOU ARE BEING RECORDED

>>51500430
What if someone is triggered by being recorded, is that an act of violence?

>>51500444
... Oh my god it might be
By recording me, you're triggering my PTSD

>>51500444
Filming someone without their consent is literally rape.

>>51500383
just thinking. the writers know we have the condition system right? we could have easily made that a persistent condition with a time length and a resolution condition.
....
>But Anon why would you want to play the bad man?
>Beast
This company's writers are confused

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>>51500230
Nothing?

>>51500214
Anybody can defeat an Antediluvian

>>51500274

I wish you could 'Create a Form' like in Descent. Makes me wish the VtM version of Protean was more like VtR's as well. That shit is fun.

>>51500567
>We'll see if he ends up impeached or not

Impeached by a majority Republican House of Representatives, no less removed by two-thirds of the Senate, also controlled by Republicans?

Good luck with that.

Besides, if Trump was removed, Mike Pence would become president. Pence is a more competent and ideological conservative who shares many opinions with Trump.

>>51500542

Kneel before Zod!

>>51500601
That's one of the reason the Mokolé were-reptiles in OWoD Werewolf are so cool, their Crinos form is born in dreams and brought to life so its build-a-form. I wish they used it more its such a fun mechanic to play with.

>>51500633
>born in dreams and brought to life so its build-a-form
Proto-Beast

>>51500682
Yeah but the cool parts and they can actually, you know, turn into it. Trivially even.

>>51500582

The Ravnos Antediluvian wasn't very impressive, was he?

>>51500053
>EX-AMISH HIPSTER SUPREMACY

>>51500763
She, she was a gril

The hot gypsy scum kind, the one you just want to take your hot iron rod and imprint your brand deep

>>51500682

Not dreams, memories of the ancient ages predating Man. Basically when dragons and shit roamed the world. Dinosaurs. Etc.

>>51500312
Beasts don't have breaking points. Step up your game cousins.

Quick question, so a Rank 3 Spirit born of the terror of surprise muggings/assault (but now grown stronger) could have as its Bane any weapon forged for the purpose of destroying it?

Because as a being of instantaneous action taken against the unaware, it would likely be vulnerable to a weapon made with the specific purpose of killing it?

Or is that too general for Rank 3?

>>51500759

And then you break things because they had the most powerful warform hands down and a ton of great Gifts for smashing shit.

Pretty good for a bunch of sleepy nerds whose job is to remember stuff.

>>51500796
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3NoDEu7kpg

>>51500845
>Archmage Frollo vs Antediluvian Esmeralda

Obviously the Archmage wins

>>51500540

See, that's something I'd rather be talking instead of just the percived power level, myself. And yeah, I've been thinking about it too, and it'd probably just be mechanically simpler to just project a Condition, maybe Shaken or something, on the target. Gets the thematic point across better, I think. Should still be a contested roll, though.

>>51500876

>implying he's not a Hunter with True Faith

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>>51500796
I know the type all too well.

>>51500822

I'm so glad I won't ever use, allow or play in anything involving Beast.

>>51500582
Shhush, don't want the vampfags to hear you say that. They seem to think they're the greatest things ever and can't be killed.

>>51500887
We live in sensationalist times

>Neck. Teeth. Then all awkwardness drains away. It’s so good.
>He moans in my ear. I muffle a moan that vibrates his throat.
>He breathes heavily. He holds on to me to keep from falling, and I gently lay us down. I can feel him stiffening. A flailing hand unintentionally clutches my breast, grasping and kneading, and the nipple stiffens, and my body never reacts like that anymore, except in this moment, and it’s so, so sweet. I drink, and we gently grind against each other, because what else can you do to keep from floating away? He gasps and shudders — a little death, just a little death — and I press his face against my shoulder to keep it quiet. I could drink down all of him, but I stop. We’re lying parallel on the bed, both breathing. Both warm and smiling and any troubles are a million light-years away. Then the mood cools and congeals into something sticky. We both startle and jump up, like we’ve just been caught in the bathroom.
>I’ve got my jacket on.
>“Also…” I say. “I need…”
>He opens a wallet with Spider-Man on it, and hands me his last ten spot. It breaks my heart, even more than the blood, because what the hell else could I possibly take from him?
>“This is the last time,” I say. It’s such a pretty lie. I jump up on the windowsill, the air feels good and I need to get outside. I don’t turn back.
>“Tell mom and dad I said hi.”

So this is from 2e. Is this how the Daeva curse works? It can make a sister be addicted to her younger brother? What kind of messed up stuff has happened in your games? Why do I feel like whoever wrote this has issues?

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>>51500383
>3. Justify it and beat the roll, you probably have enough Willpower.

Over Before It Started and The Consequences of Violence offer no roll to resist.

>>51501046
desu given everything else that has ever been written about vampires thats pretty tame

>>51501046
That's fucked up

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>>51501046

>>51501046
No that's just how the Kiss is. It feels amazing but then it gets cold after if you stick around till the kine exits a daze. All vampires are lke that when feeding, it is sex but better.

>>51501046
2e Daeva clan bane makes it so the Kindred in question becomes obsessed with a mortal if they drink from them more than once. RAW they have a second-stage Blood Bond with the mortal as the regnant. Only way to end it is the death of the mortal.

And yeah, "issues" and "messed up" are kinda core to the themes of VtR.

>>51501046
That's the good old WoD I know and love.

>>51501191
The part I didn't include is the part where it details her coming back for repeat feedings and forcing him and begging him. It made the post exceed the word count. I'll just post it here. The part I posted earlier follows this one.

>All the handholds of the tree are familiar. I don’t even have to knock on the second story window. It opens. He’s been waiting for me. The first time, I had to force him. The second time I had to beg.
>I’m relieved I don’t have to do that anymore, but part of me hates him for not resisting.
>“I need more,” I say.
>“Ok…ok,” he says. “I can stay home sick tomorrow. I hate algebra anyway.”
>This part is always awkward. I take off my college letterman jacket, and we both sit on his bed, a body’s width apart.
>Silence. Then we lean in clumsily, moving in the wrong directions — neck? wrist? somewhere else? — smiling politely like the people who keep cutting each other off, trying to pass in a cramped hall.

Then cue the disturbingly erotic description of a college aged (possibly Daeva) vampire subjecting her little brother (who she is possibly addicted to) to the Kiss.

>>51501130
>>51501159
lmao that you think that is somehow out of line for vampire literature and fiction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2AYynId1og

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How do you counter Over Before It Started or The Consequences of Violence?

>>51501298
Its written like the guy who wrote it is clearly getting off to it

>>51501313
>its permanent

>>51501298
That movie was great. Artsy films are a rarity nowadays.

>>51501313
They're both obviously Supernatural effects, so a Clash of Wills.

>>51501328
and interview with a vampire has a pedophilia subtext

vampires have been fap material for far longer than anyone on this entire website has been alive

>>51501328
Anon, please.

It could be a girl who wrote it.

Don't be sexist.

>>51501313
>How do you counter Over Before It Started
You don't need to. Just break the defenseless punching bag and get back to your target.

>The Consequences of Violence
This one is just fucking broken.

>>51501328
Sounds like someone's projecting.

Do you have something you want to tell us about your relationship with your sister?

>>51501313
>violence is bad. i'll make a brutal monster change their entire worldview by just sitting here and taking it
God. What delusional, self-righteous douche wrote this?

>>51501423
>Just break the defenseless punching bag and get back to your target.

The Storyteller rolls a die for you (you're not making an action, no Willpower for you), you fail.

The Plain takes 0 damage.

>>51501313
Do indirect or non-physical harm to a Plain.

Not sure what indirect even means. Is throwing him off a skyscraper indirect? What about locking him in a building and setting it on fire?

>>51501046
>He gasps and shudders — a little death, just a little death — and I press his face against my shoulder to keep it quiet
Is this their way of saying he had an orgasm?

>>51501465
So do it again.

>>51501482
Well, that is what the little death is.

>>51501489
It's purely encounter-based, not turn-based. That 0 damage is all that is inflicted over the course of the fight. No, there are no explanations for how this is supposed to work even in the narrative.

>>51501482
>>51501509
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_petite_mort

>an expression which means "the brief loss or weakening of consciousness" and in modern usage refers specifically to "the sensation of orgasm as likened to death".

>>51501509
>La petite mort
ohhhh
That's hilarious.

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>>51501456

David Hill.

>>51501627
>His words to them, as they destroyed him with their fists and their rage, changed these men. We never saw them again and so surely they must have changed their wicked ways.
More like they didn't want to hang around and get arrested for murder. It's also kind of fucked up that they just watched them beat an old man to death. You're telling me that nobody in a rural town had a gun?

>>51501712
This is a leftist fantasy so no.

>>51501627
Thematically self sacrificing pacifistic martyr is fine. The online blog is foolish but workable. It's the merits and powers that really are dumb and need to be either reworked or at least clarified. that auto infection one is really dumb, and takes away character agency. Being recorded is dumb, but I get they're trying to revision the holy cross banishing the darkness motif.

>>51501731
hey now don't put that neoliberal cult of nonviolence on the left here

this pathological worship of nonviolence is usually done by people who don't realize that every "peacful movement" was only possible because of idea of violent uprising being the implicit alternative, mlk needed malcom x and ghandi needed the indian people to be geared up for revolution so that the british were too afraid to just kill him

>>51501767
nonviolence only works if your enemy has a conscience

>>51501074

I was specificly refering to the "participating in violence is now a breaking point" part, my apologies. The whole template's still pretty mediocre as a whole. I assume it's only a thing at the moment because Secrets of the Covenants got all discussed out.

>>51501762
Honestly, I like the template as a weird NPC thing. Something for my Unchained to investigate or something, but I agree about the auto infection thing. That's just awful. Actually, I'm pretty sure I'll play with something related to them if I can get this damn thing up and running.

>>51501820
Honestly SoC didn't have as many juicy pieces of wtf as Beast did. mostly people complaining about writers

>>51501845

Well, I don't think anything's ever going to beat the Beast shitstorm. Probably the only time an entire game was leaked due to chan drama.

Do you guys RP in first or third person?

>>51501833
>get this damn thing up and running
computer problems?

they seem like an interesting mystery. and making parallels to saint martyrdom and noble calm death.

That being said. New Resident Evil. What kind of plot fodder can we pull from it?

>>51501884

Used to be in first, switched to third because my group used third.

>>51501845
Was that the one with the self castration?

>>51501886

>clancy doesn't get captured in the flashback because he was recording them

>>51501886
>computer problems?
Game problems. I had three, potentially four interested players, but only one of them doesn't work at the same place as the rest and the ones working at said place all have different days off. They tell me, yeah a game could be fun, but they're literally never available at the same time.

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>>51501762

>The online blog is foolish but workable.
>workable

That is giving a little too much credit to a magic ex-Amish blog.

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>>51501845

Oh, yes, Beast: Conquering Heroes.

How does it feel to know that in the Chronicles of Darkness, the GamerGate movement was masterminded by an ugly Spanish hacker spider-lady?

>Recently, Null Snyper discovered the adolescent man-children that exist where gamers and men’s rights activists overlap. She felt nothing but contempt for them, but she decided to try flexing her internet muscles. Instead of driving people to suicide through direct online interaction, she whipped up an angry mob to go after her targets. Through empty rhetoric and carefully coordinated campaigns of doxing and harassment, she terrorized players, game developers, and journalists in the industry who don’t share her trolls’ views. The first time she saw a man killed by police, live on webcam as a result of a swatting prank, ecstasy, unlike that from any other death she caused, filled her completely. She knew she was on the right track.

>Now she maintains a carefully cultivated legion of followers. Certain circles avidly follow Null Snyper’s exploits and celebrate her as a master troll. It only takes a word or two from her to unleash the fury of hordes of aspiring trolls longing to make a name for themselves. They’ll dox anyone or breach private accounts if it means gaining a small measure of notoriety by attaching themselves to her reputation.

She also has Allies (Internet Trolls) 5. Her legion of "adolescent man-children" wields so much clout that they can automatically cancel another character's 5-dot Social Merit, like Status (Military General) 5, for one session.

And the rules make it completely trivial to dox someone and get their government ID numbers and bank accounts: >>51489190

>>51501998
The more I read about Plains, the more I don't like them.

>>51501998

It's a setting with a heavy metal album that makes you a Satanist that can do magic on people's skeletons while they're inside them, it's not like it's a stranger to silly stuff.

>>51502037
That heavy metal album is also deliberately enchanted, and casts temporary spells on them. It doesn't permanently give people real magic.

>>51502037
Yeah I don't think the Plains are offensively bad like some of this thread seems too. I just think they're a really bad execution on an already dumb concept.

>>51502025

You know, for a line that's supposed to be all about the crossover, having the new antagonist be "you but worse but only you can fight them not those wimpy heroes see moral quandry solved right right" is a pretty boring choice.

>>51502025
>gamer gate killed several archmages, three demons, five gen five plus vampires and over thirty werewolves

>>51502037
First, Dead Metal does not work on living things. Second, listening to the grimoire record doesn't necessarily make you a Satanist, just anti-authoritarian. Third, fuck you Metal Dead is an awesome spell and is way cooler and thematically appropriate than magic radical pacifistic Amish people who get powers from a blog.

What would happen if I opened a gate between the abyss and one of the lower depths? Would the influx of unreality stabilize the degenerate plane into something that resembled the fallen world?

>>51502025
magic spider is magic. owod had pattern spiders who could do the same

nah man you need Voice of the Victim in your life man. Literal Rape Apologist narrative

>>51502025
Beast does not exist in my World of Darkness. Plains will probably wind up not existing there either. Jury is still out, but it's not looking good.

>>51502049
>>51502089

I'm sorry that the silly thing you like is just as silly as the silly thing you don't like.

I don't see why we're supposed to be up in arms about another dull Mortal Template when Null fucking Snyper is in the thread.

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>>51502109
>What would happen
Nothing fucking good.

>>51501998
it's pussy Hunter Net -shrugs- I didn't say it was the most inspired idea

>>51502137
How does Network Zero feel about Plains?

Is Netzo pissed about it having been that easy all along?

>>51502147
Having what easy?
Talking people down?
How does that find out the truth about the Supernatural?

>>51502131
The heavy metal grimoire is not silly, you tool. It might sound silly when you misrepresent it with a reductionist approach, but in the Grimoire of Grimoires book it is presented in a way that is plausible and thematically appropriate for its gameline. A heavy metal Free Council band that uses Satanic imagery to embody their anti-authoritarian philosophies is hardly on the same level of silliness as Plains and Null Snyper.

>>51502109
Do it, see what happens

>>51502109
>Would the influx of unreality stabilize the degenerate plane into something that resembled the fallen world?

Lol no, BEST case scenario is a nonstop forever war between Anti-Reality Demons and Reality Devouring Horrors

>>51502109
Are you an NPC? Because this sounds like the kind of shit the PCs would have to stop/clean up.

>>51500383
>1. Only if they have those Merits
Those merits cost all of 1 fucking merit point.

I literally can't see a reason to not take them.

>>51502147
Don't know. I can image Net0 wanting to do a sever raid on them. maybe find some monster pics on their severs and their weird powers. Might be useful on missions. Net0 wants proof it doesn't want conquest like other hunters

>>51502166
Having the Plain reader makes them a sleepwalker

>>51502178

It's very silly. That it's better executed than other silly things of its caliber in the CofD doesn't mean that it isn't silly in the first place.

Silly isn't bad. But let's not pretend that Radical Pacifists gaining magic through a goddamn blog is somehow crossing the line in a setting with a Banisher Tom Cruise expy, a dragon that runs a Wal-Mart style chain, and yes, a heavy metal grimoire.

>>51502258
>Having the Plain reader makes them a Sleepwalker
So does literally any other Supernatural merit.

>>51502268
I maintain that the heavy metal grimoire is not silly. It was created by a popular band to bring more people closer to Awakening, which is in keeping the Free Council's themes. You want to talk about silly grimoires? How about the best selling fantasy series that parodies the Atlantean Orders and is protected by Fate spells so strong that a Guardian who tried to destroy one was suddenly crushed by a roof suddenly collapsing, with his hand just poking out of the debris, holding the book, which was perfectly unharmed?

>>51502134
>>51502196
>>51502200
>>51502245

Guess what's the plot of the next chapter of my campaign? :-3

>>51501712
The amish are breddy big on pacifism. Of course it's that Christian flavor of pacifism where you're supposed to love your faith more than your life and you shouldn't kill anyone since they may come to the Lord in the future so the plain are even more stupid and implausible.

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>>51502110

Okay. Voice of the Victim.

Please bear in mind that Candy here was repeatedly raped by her Beast "friend," while Candy sleeped, until she killed that Beast.

Candy here is supposed to be a Hero and thus a villain.

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>>51502462

Candy's vlog unwittingly allows other Heroes to track down and kill Beasts.

This antagonist's main tool is a YouTube vlog.

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>>51502471

Also from that page with the illustration:

>Beasts noticed Voice of the Victim’s actions as their addresses, places of work, and families were featured on the publicly-visible website. The furor surrounding the site made Candy’s visible aims a particular concern to Beasts lairing on campuses. A youthful brood attempted legal action against the Hero initially, but, finding no traction, plotted her abduction. Foolishly, the brood broadcasted plans of the attack across social media, where word of it leaked to Candy.

>Rasmussen anticipated their assault and recorded every step of their aggression. The Hero’s loyal fans on campus — students and teachers both — intercepted the Beasts. After forming a human wall around the vlogger’s building, they fanatically and violently defended Rasmussen.

>Candy uploaded footage of the brood’s unsuccessful raid that evening, along with her voiceover mocking the “vengeful beasts.” Police intervened to ask Candy whether she wished to press charges or required protection. The Hero declined both. She knew other Heroes would soon eliminate the Beasts, whose faces were online for everyone to see.

The Beasts' righteous plot was foiled because they posted it on Twitter beforehand!

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>>51502484

>As one of the Beasts enters a church, a therapist’s office, or another place of quiet refuge, they spy a heavily-disguised Candy Rasmussen exiting. Supposedly, Rasmussen goes nowhere alone, yet in this instance she’s unaccompanied by any of her hangers on. This is a golden opportunity to stalk the Hero, engage her while she’s undefended, or simply find out more about her. What darkness does she contain that drives her to a place of counseling and contemplation, and is it possible to reach her with words instead of resorting to claws and Horrors?

"So, you see your enemy coming out of a therapist office after having been traumatized by the bullshit someone on your side pulled. Perfect time to rap- I mean, kidnap them!"

I swear, Beast was secretly made by a bunch of serial rapists/murderers to act as a cover for them planning out their fantasies, like Slasher without the "and this is a terrible thing" added on.

>>51502471
>that speech
>going viral
jesus christ how out of touch can these writers be?

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>>51502495

>“The sad truth is we’ve made this world a gray, uncaring place where everyone does the bare minimum to get by. The people want to believe in ideals, but harsh reality tells them hope and faith are mistakes. To hell with the needs of innocent victims crushed beneath the wheels of grinding prosperity. The man who sat beside me is a crook — a beast. Nobody will address this because he has the most expensive lawyers in the country. But let me tell you now, live: the people need to hear the strong voice of someone bold enough to tell the greedy magnates, bent politicians, and violent criminals they’re wrong. Their victims won’t take this any longer. The beast beside me, and everyone like him, need to be shown we won’t take their shit any longer.”

She was wielding a 1,000 degree knife while giving her soliloquy.

So what books detail the powers and capabilities of Archmages for CofD?

>>51502343

Which is exactly as silly as the heavy metal grimoire. Something can be completely on-point with a splat's themes and executed well, but still be a very silly concept at heart. But I'm willing to agree to disagree on that. I don't want to come off as disparaging Grimoire of Grimoires, I really like that book.

>>51502462
>>51502471

Fucking hell, Conquering Heroes is so bad. Christ, this entry never fails to make me angry. I try not to think about Aspel when they're not posting as general principle, but boy am I glad they're not around anymore and vanished before the book came out. I think if they tried to defend it I'd actually have to admit to being made mad by someone over the internet.

>>51502501
Which she followed up by testing whether an unfleshed promethean will blend

>>51502501

What would happen if you cut an archmage with a 1000 degrees red hot knife?

>>51502502

Imperial Mysteries! It's good stuff, I like the Archmages factions the best, even more than the actual power stuff.

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>>51502462
>>51502471
>>51502484
>>51502493
>Candy’s reasoning is one of misguided altruism. She believes Beasts taint what they touch and harm what they love.

But this is totally true. Beasts ARE complete and total shitheads! They have, like, only 10% redeeming qualities and 90% dickishness.

>>51502518
It would be extremely painful. For you.

>>51502508
Alright, fine. Agree to disagree.

>>51502517

>The Try Guys Try: The Hedge

>>51502462
>>51502471

This honestly reads like it was written by someone who spends all fucking day on Twitter and thinks retweeting hashtags is "activism"

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Null Snyper.

>If u can’t take criticism, GTFO n00b! LOL
"How do you do, fellow kids?"

>As soon as she graduated high school and was on her own, she saved up enough to buy an old laptop. She spent every moment of her free time engrossed in it. Her favorite forum was one that criticized people’s self-made costumes. Members of the community would take pictures of other people’s cosplay and upload them for everyone to ridicule. Maria gleefully joined in savaging the images. One picture turned out to be of a regular poster to the group.
Null is also from /cgl/.

Null Snyper's second page is here >>51502025

>>51502550
No I don't think David Hill wrote this bit

>>51502525
Isn't that book old? Like, middle of nWoD old? It isn't second edition is it?

>>51502557
>Isn't that book old?
no
>Like, middle of nWoD old?
no
>It isn't second edition is it?
that seems more like a recommendation by the book

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>>51502552

>Rumors
>“Null Snyper is so active in the men’s rights activists’ forums, we’re probably looking for a socially awkward male in his teens to early 20s.”
A little on the nose there.

>One of the local Begotten is doxed. Now, a coordinated campaign of harassment has begun. Null Snyper had an epiphany on how to use the Primordial Dream to integrate herself more fully into the realm of information, but she needs a Beast’s Lair to enact her plan. It’s a race against time as the characters attempt to find the source of the harassment before the operation reaches its bloody conclusion.
Oh no! Someone is being harassed on the internet and cannot turn off their computer! Clearly, this is a job for the valiant Beasts. Such tension, such high stakes!

>>51502557
It isn't second edition, but it's almost entirely fluff, with very little mechanics to translate. Most of the fluff is even 2e compatible; it helps that DaveB wrote them both.

>>51502557

Late nWoD, and still considered to be mostly comparable with 2e. It's the only Archmage material we're getting at thr moment since Mage 2e wants to focus on regula Mages for now.

>>51502552
>forum that savages and ridicules and criticizes self-made costumes
Wow throw in a rabid hate-boner for Jessica Nigri and that's /cg/ to a T.

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>>51502578

It really gets my goat how Null Snyper has Allies (Internet Trolls) 5, enough to go up against Resources 5. For that matter, how does this even make sense?

>Now she maintains a carefully cultivated legion of followers. Certain circles avidly follow Null Snyper’s exploits and celebrate her as a master troll. It only takes a word or two from her to unleash the fury of hordes of aspiring trolls longing to make a name for themselves. They’ll dox anyone or breach private accounts if it means gaining a small measure of notoriety by attaching themselves to her reputation.

Why would Anons ever rally around a name/tripfag?

>>51500053
Which book is that picture from?

>>51502584
>>51502579
So while it is 'compatible with the fluff', it isn't 2nd edition.

So Archmages currently have no material written about them in actual 2nd edition?

All this talk of Archmages and they aren't even canon yet?

>>51502552

To be fair, if you told me that a terrible creature who ruins people's lives for sustinance and doesn't fucking shower came from /cgl/, I would completely beleive you.

>>51502602
>Why would Anons ever rally around a name/tripfag?
What's even more amusing is that they think we could do anything beyond namecalling.

I don't know how to hack shit.

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>>51502634
>Your Allies (FBI) 5 gets shut down because 5chinz called them niggers

>>51502602
This reminds me of when my friend was asking "what is anonymous?"

basically a bunch of coordinated scribe kiddies + a small group with a minor mental social effect

>>51502613
Signs of Sorcery is supposed to talk about Archmages, so they're still a thing.

>>51502634

>"Go my minions! Hack forth and crash free and do my bidding! For me, Null Snyper!"
>"What did she mean by this?"
>"Oh, it just means call 'em a cuck or a neoliberal or something till they log off"
>"Cool."

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>>51502644
>fbi tries to arrest her allies

>>51502644
>your friendly neighborhood archmage went back to his chantry crying because someone sent him a tweet saying u ar a cuck

>>51502667
Yeah, but we don't know how powerful THOSE Archmages will be.

Until they are reestablished, all talk of how awesome and godlike Archmages are doesn't apply to 2e. It is all speculation.

Until Signs of Sorcery, Archmages are just a concept.

You guys all still here?

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>>51502613
>All this talk of Archmages and they aren't even canon yet?

>>51502674
>>"Go my minions! Hack forth and crash free and do my bidding! For me, Null Snyper!"
>NYPA

>>51502694
>Until they are re-established, all talk of how awesome and godlike Archmages are doesn't apply to 2e. It is all speculation.

No. Not it's not speculation. Dave has repeatedly stated that the Imperial Practices still exist in 2e. You are going out on a limb here.

>>51502674
Remember, everyone thinks Null Snyper is a dude. Because GamerGate is 100% MRAs.

>>51502704
Don't have anywhere else to go.

>>51502694
Are you retarded? There's a small section for minor Archmage rules in the 2e core. Archmages will always be canon as they are a big part of the lore.

>>51502719
Wow, they're really subverting stereotypes, aren't they?

>>51502613
Time Archmages are shitposting from the future. They need the butthurt for a Quintessence.

>>51502710
Archmages are still canon. Never have not been canon.

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Bonus round: The rules for doxxing from Hurt Locker. It is so easy to dox someone in this system. Computer dots are for IT experts only, remember?

>To scrape social media for personal information, roll Intelligence + Computer, opposed by the target’s Resolve + Computer, in an extended action. Each roll represents an hour of work on the hacker’s part; rolls by the target represent longer-term vigilance to prevent metadata leakage. The hacker must accrue a number of successes equal to twice the target’s unmodified dice pool, and the target must do likewise — the first to reach this number is victorious. If successful, the hacker gains access to personal information, including name, address, and frequently visited places. An exceptional success grants government ID numbers or bank account information, giving the hacker access to the subject’s Resources Merit, if she has one (if she does not, he’ll likely open a credit card in her name and run up obscene bills, saddling her with debt).

>If the target is victorious, her stalker’s efforts are stymied, and he cannot gain access to her information through this means. On its own, doxxing (the publication of personal information to a wide audience) may not seem like the worst thing that could possibly happen. The truth of the matter is that doxxing never happens in a vacuum. If someone cares enough to dig up information and publish it, odds are others will be sufficiently motivated to act upon it. The Storyteller should roll a die every chapter — a failure indicates that the victim is clear of harassment for the remainder of the story, while a success indicates that a stalker will harass him in some way. This could be as subtle as taking selfies outside his workplace or as blatant as leaving dead animals on his doorstep — or worse. For every dot of Fame or Status the target has, add one die to the roll — bigger names attract more attention. Other Merits affect this roll at the Storyteller’s discretion.

>>51502750
Whoever wrote that spends way too much time on the internet.

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>>51502750

So, a target with Resolve 3 and no dots in Computer? Down to a chance die and a target number of 3 successes.

The target's IT crew could help with teamwork actions, but the target number is still only the unmodified 3... and the doxxer's friends can help the doxxing with their own teamwork actions.

Exceptional success? You now have the government ID numbers or bank accounts of a mortal president, a hierarch, a vampire prince, or whatever suits your fancy.

As written, there are no rules for un-doxxing oneself. If someone gets doxxed, then for the rest of the game, the GM rolls a die at the start of each chapter (session) to see if they get harassed.

A failure means that the target is clear for the rest of the story (adventure arc)... but the roll gains bonus dice equal to the target's Fame and Status dots. Status dots are extremely common among NPCs, which means harassing NPCs will be trivial.

>>51502716
Dave can say whatever he wants.

By the raw, we don't know the power level of current Archmages in 2e.

There is really no way around that. If anything, anyone who says they are just as powerful as before are the ones 'going out on a limb'.

>>51502704

Atamajakki. I've been here, in various incarnations of WoD General, for like eight years. I started writing for some of these books because of this thread. I've somehow outlasted Aspel somehow.

I can't escape. I'm a Guardian Immortal and WoD/CofD general is my charge.

>>51502704
Haven't you heard, Jakki? You're here forever

>>51502750
This makes it trivial to dox elder vampires who don't even know what an internet is. What were they thinking?
>>51502793
>I started writing for some of these books because of this thread.
Well now there's something to be proud of

>>51500053
So I've been playing Mage: the Ascencion and my little mage is about a year into his career. We started him getting into the game and getting in deep with Gehenna and the various cults surrounding it. He has mind 1 time 2 fate 3 at this point, and can see visions into the future with his dreams. He lets the sensations he gets from deja vu to guide him through the future and is trying to guide himself to going to the right people to stop the apocalypse.

He's had some success. He telepathically talked with the woken antedeluvian Malkavian and convinced him to not diabolrize his childer like the prophecy stated and instead to embrace the amount of godhood they had as being "as close as it gets to perfect without being tempered".

But now I don't know how to stop the next stage of the apocalypse, when the Abyss starts going haywire and anamolies have a chance of opening long sustained gates to the abyss. As it is, he's trying to talk with technocrats in order to understand the quantum nature of magic, but I'm not sure how effective this will be since a lot of technocrat mages in the metaplot seem to be hellbent on making rifts to the void.

So, trying to save the world what do?

>>51502770

>Touhou picture

Don't get my hopes up like this. Someone tell me how I can use these rules to cyberbully Task Force: VALKYRIE.

>>51502792

Archmasters are briefly defined in Chapter Six of Mage 2e. All of the ten Arcana are ruling and they automatically win any Clash of Wills. Their spells also can't be countered by any means. They still exist to kick your sorry asses into non-existence, Anon.

>Dave can say whatever he wants

He can! He's the authority here. Not you. Archmages are still as powerful as they were. The Imperial Practices still exist as of 2e. Get over yourself, buddy.

>>51502822
So, when I asked what books define Archmages, no one thought to say 'oh yeah they are defined in Mage 2e?'

Is it my fault the only book I was told was not a 2nd edition book?

>>51502864
Yes.

Now go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

>>51502864

This is on you, Anon. You tried to argue that something wasn't canon due to differing editions. This isn't always the case. Learn this and learn it well.

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>>51502821

Intelligence 5, Computer 5, an Availability 4 personal computer (+4 bonus), Library (Computer) 3, Hobbyist Clique (Computer) 2, Area of Expertise (Doxxing) 1, and as many doxxing-related specialties as possible.

You might as well have Plain Reader 1 (possibly free), Over Before It Started 1, and The Consequences of Violence 1 too, so you can shield yourself from reprisal in person.

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Magefags are getting aggresive with their lectures.

>>51502864
It's your fault you don't even know what's in your corebook yes

>>51502887
But I'm still right? We don't know the full power level of Archmages, or how they work in 2e. A small sidebar of rules openly isn't everything there is to know about them right?

So I learned that... Archmages aren't canon!

>>51502910

That means I'd have to potentially break my Integrity to fuck if I get unlucky, but it's worth it if I get to get those vampire loving ADAMSKI freaks running scared. Thank you, Anon.

>>51502913
Not my corebook, I don't play Mage.

Which is why I asked.

>>51502935
>We don't know the full power level of Archmages

Yes. Yes we do. What part of the Imperial Practices still existing as of 2e don't you understand, Anon?

>So I learned that... Archmages aren't canon!

This is the part where I label you as a retard and walk away.

>>51502704
I don't know how to leave :(

>>51502710
There's some stop-gap rules in the core to hold you over. It's ludicrous. All arcana count as ruling, clash of wills rolls against 'lesser templates' auto-succeed, super mage sight, spell factors beyond the advanced table, cannot be counter-spelled, spells that cannot be dispelled.

Destruction of your physical form is a minor inconvenience. Plus the usual arch-mage 'magical law' breaking allowing previously impossible spells.

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>>51502935
>Archmages aren't canon!
>discussed in the corebook
>discussed by a notable author of the gameline
>confirmed for being discussed in an upcoming book
>but not canon

>>51502960
Dave has actually mentioned that he knows how to convert Imperial Mysteries over to 2e. It will be while before then, however.

>>51502960

>Mage still the strongest gameline in 2E
>Mage supremacy

>>51502911
it's about damn time

>>51503045
>>51503012
>Go out of their way to make the 2nd edition updates for every game line create interesting new ways to play, smooth out power levels, and really bring the universe together.
>Still throw in Archmages because why not?

It is always one step forward and two steps backwards with OP.

>>51503045
>>51503090

I mean, Elder Vampires and shit aren't even in the quasi-statted superposition that archmages are in. Thousand Years of Night could have equally crazy shit.

>>51503100

Methuselahs aren't going to be the Archmaster equivalent for Requiem according to Dave.

>>51503100
Naw. Because that would be interesting.

Instead they'll just be old and cranky. If anything, life for them will suck more than normal vampires, because of all of their restrictions and such.

This is just how OP works.

>>51503100
Thousand Years of Night isn't going to be Tier-4 play.

Does anyone have a PDF of that take on the Purified where they were either drugged out sorcerer-engineers or taoist-priest serial kilers?

>>51503100
I get annoyed when people automatically assume that the other splats are going to acquire new upper templates comparable to that of the Archmasters.

>>51503208
Was it a fan thing?

>>51503217
Probably not as annoyed as everyone is of constantly being reminded by OP themselves that nothing matters but Archmages.

>>51503225
Except how does that affect anything other than Mage? It doesn't.

>>51503239
CofD is a connected world.

When any question has to go against 'why hasn't an Archmaster just removed it from existence' and the answer is 'I dunno, reasons?' stuff can lose its oomph.

When the biggest bad guys in the whole universe are evidently able to be unmade on a whim by Archmages, it sort of makes your whole story look like piss.

Whether or not your ST brings them up, or makes them part of the story, Archmages exist in the same universe, and they could have solved the problem already if it was actually important enough. But they didn't, so is your big problem actually important?

It is like Superman in DC comics. Sure, Batman deals with a lot of really difficult problems, oh boohoo. Everyone knows Superman could clean up Gotham in a day. They literally have to come up with convoluted mystical reasons why Gotham is still a crapsack when Superman lives in the next town over.

>>51503218
It was. There's a few PDFS of different takes on them lying around. Seen one that really drove home the spirit nature, another that was a straight conversion of the wu t'ian to fit into the WoD, another that was some sort of 'echo' version of the nMummy rite and one where it was an 'additional' template that sort of turned them into spirit ghouls. And that one I'm looking for, of course.

>>51503279
>CofD is a connected world
Not if you don't want it to be. It's as simple as that. This is a sandbox setting.

>>51503279

Archmages don't interfere with the lesser splats. They just don't. They look at Kindred and laugh. These are beings concerned with the pillars of reality, not petty politics or monsters running amok in the streets.

>>51503297
Yeah. I mean you can ignore stuff. But you'll still know.

>>51503315
You need to realize that CofD is only loosely connected in that sense. It's your Chronicle.

>>51503326
And you can run DnD with no magic, or dragons, or dungeons. Both are sandboxes, and you can make the setting do whatever you want.

Which is a pointless statement when talking about the greater game itself, in which case it is assumed everything exists up until a particular GM of a particular game says that in their own particular version, X, Y, and Z don't exist.

In CofD as written, Archmages exists, and they are better than anything, and nothing your characters face could have ever posed a challenge to them.

>>51503279
Archmages aren't superheroes. They tend to do their own thing, as far as I can tell. What's more, if you think they ruin the setting, then they don't have to exist in your games. They exist in Mage to show how much power a Mage can achieve if he wants it badly enough and is willing to give up his mortal life to get it. Which is intrinsically tied into the game's core theme of "All the power you want, but at what cost?".

And I reiterate, they do not have to exist in your games. Mages don't have to exist in your games. Beasts don't exist in my games, and I'm perfectly happy with that. They can be as canon as OP wants them to be, but that doesn't mean I have to accept them.

>>51503356
>Sorry. I had to correct my previous post.

>Archmages exist, and they are better than anything, and nothing your characters face could have ever posed a challenge to them.

Again. How does this affect your Chronicle?

>>51503372
I already answered that question.

>>51503315

The game doesn't assume crossover by default. If you're playing Vampire, there's no Archmages unless your ST wants them, and even then I'd say Hunter-style "there are mages who aren't the Awakened" approach is more likely.

>>51503100
Vampires aren't going to get their Archmage tier template. The book isn't what you think it is.

>>51503393
I disagree. Most of the game lines have some mention of the other main lines now, and throw in at least one of the other splats. The 'we don't know how these work' details are usually left for books from the viewpoints of mortals. Werewolves know of the awakened, and have opinions of them. The core book knows this, and doesn't pretend that Mages aren't out there doing Mage stuff. Mages and Vampires are canon to Werewolf and at their normal power levels.

So while the mortal book doesn't assume crossover (because that wouldn't make sense, the mortal book doesn't assume supernatural PCs except the occasional psychic), every splat book knows the settings will crossover.

>>51503375
And I'm asking you again. How does it really affect anything unless you say it does? Mage as a gameline has the highest potential power (it's one of their biggest themes!) compared to the rest, but that shouldn't determine and affect how you run your story.

>>51503424
You asking the question again doesn't change that it does. I've already given you the answer, you just don't find it sufficient for you.

But it IS a problem for some, which is why it is so frustrating that OP feeds into the Magewank even when they are given a chance to start fresh.

>>51503419
None of that means that Archmages have to exist in your games unless you want them to. This is even explicitly stated in the books. "If you don't like it, don't use it".

>>51503432
You are literally upset about nothing. This is a non-issue caused not by OP, but by your own inflexibility. YOU are the one insisting that Archmages have to exist in your games, not OP. If you don't like Archmages, chuck them to the curb! Problem solved.

>>51503432

Mages being potentially more powerful than the rest of the supernaturals makes complete sense, Anon. It's like trying to argue that Vampires shouldn't drink blood.

Knowledge is power. Deal with it.

>>51503482
There is a lot of room to play between 'being potentially more powerful' and 'able to unmake anything, impossible to resist, unhinged from time, and can never truly die.'

I mean, you do realize it doesn't have to be one or the other right?

>>51503492

Masters are terrifying. This is something we have all learned from experience or from relative discussions. You don't have to use them in your Chronicle.

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>>51503492
>Practice of Unmaking

Ain't nobody got time for that!

>>51503507
>You don't have to use them in your Chronicle.
Don't bother trying to get this through to him. Anon is a whiny little shit who just wants to bitch about a problem he made up in his mind.

>>51503593
No one has to use Beasts.
Still doesn't stop people from complaining about how much they suck.

Are we not allowed to complain now? Do we have to praise DaveB before bed, and kiss OP on the ring finger with every post?

>>51503623
Complaining about Beasts is more of a fun pastime than actually being upset about something. You can complain about Archmages all you want, but what you're actually complaining is how they ruin the setting for you just by existing in the same world. This is retarded, because the books actively encourage you to disregard shit you don't like. You can still complain, of course, but I can also call you out on being a stupid whiny little bitch who is complaining about a problem that has a perfectly fine solution.

>>51503674
Except it doesn't have a solution, it has hiding from it.

The power level of the game is out of whack, in a disproportionate way. It is perfectly fine that Mages are more powerful, whatever. This isn't that, this is someone at OP having their dick balls deep in Mage lore, and being unable to pull free.

I'm sorry that you're too dull to see that, and are willing to just 'go with the flow' or whatever you use to excuse swallowing shitty design choices. We can call it shitty taste.

Archmages are poor design, and letting them continue as is just shows OP has no idea what they are trying to do with nWoD.

This guy isn't even trying and thus deserves no (You)s. Ignore him and let's talk about something a little less autistim inducing.

>>51503775
You'll just end up talking about Archmages within 5 posts anyway. I'll see you guys then.

>>51503775

Agreed.

What should I be looking for in general if I want to make a really strong combat character in MtA (revised)?

At character creation, and through advancement.

Come on, Dark Eras Companion. I want to see if there's anything up to the standard of Sundered World in there.

>>51504336

High hopes for Roman Werewolf, Black Death Promethean/Vampire (new Lineage!) and the two Mummy chapters.

>>51504413
Meanwhile, Hunter got nothing.

>>51504458

Hey, I voted for it in the polls. People wanted Werewolf more.

>>51504474
We're going to have generic barbarians Werewolves, very original. Maybe it'll have some interesting tidbits for Requiem for Rome, like the Ventrue entering the game. Remind me, was Werewolf up against Pacific War hunters or the Book of Judges?

I've got an itching to play some WoD after many years of hiatus, looking at vampire specifically. But I'm unsure of what edition to play, I've read a bit in each book and I'm most familiar with nWoD 1e. Which vampire-edition is the best in your eyes? oWoD, nWoD(1e) or Chronicles(2e)?

I'm worried that Chronicles is corrupted by SJW-bullshit, so I'm a biy partial to oWoD at the moment, I don't really care about the rulesystem that much, my question is more about setting, fluff and 'feel'. (I know that the rules are better in the new editions already).

>>51504493
While it's not exactly related I would love to see a book about other supernaturals in days of Irem as a Mummy supplement.

>>51504493
>We're going to have generic barbarians Werewolves, very original.
The information we have on it makes that sound unlikely. From what I remember, the focus is on the Romanized.

>>51504547
I prefer Requiem 2e out of all of them.

>>51504635
Not the OP but strix in 2ed are kind of my personal pet peeve

>>51504685
You don't have to use them.

>>51504724
Sure and I don't but they seem more of an integral part of the setting than in 1ed. Same as Indigam in second werewolf

>>51504685

Yeah, the strix are one of the major things that makes me worry that 2e might not be all that. Fucking demon owls, so dumb.

>>51504744
Wasted space if you ask me. They kinda wasted space they could have used for Belials Brood and VII. I loved the Brood book in 1ed but VII left me kind of meh.

Thyrsus Tantric Massage Therapist. Go to her for some "healing"

How different is Fate and Space when figuring out relationships between things?

>>51505027
Space shows you if they have a relationship.
Fate shows you whether the universe gives half of a shit if they have a relationship.

>>51505046
Examples?

>>51503217
I take it you haven't seen Chris Allen's proposed Boddhisatva Predator add-on template for werewolves.

>>51505423

Well would you at that. Explicit immunity to Unmaking and having their personal timeline fucked with. How oddly specific.

I'm GMing a fairly long running sabbat game of vampire the masquerade. One of my players managed to attract the attention of the black hand and has done a few tests, so I'm working on a 1 on 1 session for him.

Need help with a few things.

1. He sleeps with protean 3, can he just be straight dug up? Can he be found with auspex? How does that work exactly? Mostly just need to get an idea of where the weak point is, can't imagine earth meld is just everything proof.

2. Any good ideas for how you give someone the ability to invoke the kiss of asp? Is it just something they learn over time or is their a mystical ritual involved? Ideas for how the ritual would look?

3. Because its the first game I've ever ran I made the mistake of setting it in 2015. In game its January 2016 now and I don't wanna end up running a game set in 2040 while its 2017 irl, so I'm trying to avoid year long time skips. Ideas on how to condense some of/most of the black hands training down into just a few weeks? I'm fine taking a few liberties if needed.

>>51504739
But they're designed so they can be completely ignored. They are merely a tool in a Storytellers toolbox.

>>51505527
>He is a set part of reality and cannot be removed from it except by his death; attempts to delete Lycaon-Ur from the timeline, rewrite reality so that he is not part of it or otherwise utterly unmake him will fail.

Mages aren't the only ones with that sort of power, though. Demons and Mummies definitely have reality-fuckery powers too, and The Pack references Lodges that may be able to mess around with time.

>>51505060
Space will show you a person's connection to their life. Fate will show you if that connection is related to any upcoming momentous events.

>>51506087
>life
Wife.

>>51501627

>they are Amish surerheros, except not all the parts western libetas find icky

in what sense is this not highly offensive cultural appropriation?

>>51506163
because it's okay when they do it, because they are progressive and all others are shitlords

So, did anyone else notice/have a brain aneurysm that caused them to think that all the Supernatural templates from Hurt Locker are based off of Matchbox 20 songs?

>>51506306

That would imply that any human being can accurately remember a Matchbox 20 song.

Tantric massage therapist who herself is virginal.

>>51506996
Character concept? Story hook? Random collection of words?

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>>51502910
I miss your DnD 4e char op threads. Those were good times.

That and your insane mage possession of a gun, possessing him, for crazy stats and fun times.

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>>51502770
>>51502910
A-are you back? Have you returned to us?

If I remember from reading Imperial mysteries all this fear about arch mages Is unfounded, sure they have unstoppable power but it's like going from a pistol to a nuke. They can't interfere in the fallen world basicly at all because of the pax arcanum and all the other arch mages, exarchs, and other insane things all pointing magical guns at each other. They are effectively limited, and if the overstep their bounds everything they can do can be undone.

Expect a master mage to impact the world more than an arch mage. At least from the point of the world and all the splats archmages don't impact it, maybe they can pass on. Some wisdom or create an artifact but archmages can't simply warp down and solve all the problems themself, everything they did would be undone and they would face unmaking, or whatever happens when archs and exarchs fight.

Great power, less impact, little to no influence.

>>51507086
Character concept. Thyrsus who heals you physically and mentally using sensual tantric massage. No intercourse.

How do I make my Mage game focus more on ritual. Spending a reach just to install cast seems to easy.

>>51507324
Plus there's also this.

>Creation blossoms in an endless number of branching and parallel worlds. When an archmaster uses Imperium Rites he doesn’t change any of them, but moves from one world to the next, searching for a universe that allows
his Ascension. This explanation is not only convenient when you want to maintain a stable base setting for your chronicle, but manages crossovers as well. An archmage can enslave every werewolf in her personal universe without
affecting your upcoming Werewolf: The Forsaken game.

>>51507410
Keep in mind that if they are consistently spending reach like that they will be gaining paradox dice pretty consistently as well. Even if they mostly use free reach for it that is a free reach they can't spend on anything else.

>>51507378
If there's no sex then it's just a regular massage.

>>51501884
I alternate. Can't help myself.

>>51502025
I am playing a hacker demon that pulls shit like this. Not because she believes in any particular cause, it's usually a side effect of her machinations or rather twisted sense of humor.

>>51507688
>>51507324
Only took a few hours.

>>51507895
>girl hacker demon with a twisted sense of humor
L O N D O N
O
N
D
O
N

>>51507839
Don't you know tantric massage involves sensual touching of erogenous zones such as genitalia? Usually both the client and therapist are naked. It's more sensual and erotic than normal massage.

>>51507895
>hacker with a twisted sense of humor

MOM'S GONNA FREAK

>>51508174
So she gives happy ending massages?

>>51508126
Not in LONDON. She resides in a bunker in LA with her paranoid stoner mage roommate. Also started the in-universe Tits Out For Adler movement to prevent a piece of God Machine infrastructure from being built.

>>51502719

That's correct. Because everyone who dislikes Beast is automatically an MRA. Regardless of actual gender.

That's word of God/dev people.

A Promethean that wants to be come a Mage instead of a human because they are the ultimate lifeform

>>51508582

So basically a starry-eyed Argentum, then.

>>51508582
Mages are humans, the only difference is the awakening

>>51508225
Orgasm isn't the point but it can happen. Its supposed to be pleasurable not just in the sexual aspect

>>51508573
Beast confuses me on what stance its trying to take

So it has a bunch of social justice stuff as like the bad guys right? So the guys behind gamer gate aka fake 4chan are the bad guys but then the 'good' guys are all horrible people who exist just to make others suffer so doesn't that mean the shitty trolls / bad guys are really the good guys?
So is it like saying that SJWs aka Beasts are leeches that just make people suffer? I don't get it

>>51508821
That's all SJWs are so that sounds like a reasonable reading.

>>51500053
>How does one counter the Plain?

A werewolf?

Technology gifts counter "you are being recorded"

The rage of the garu form counters "i am bleeding on you"

The regeneration of the garu form counters "Phantom pain" and "the push" only works if the enemy is attacking someone else and not the plain or just attack indirectly with spirit and shit.

Another counter is common sense, the plain is a fucking stupid idea born of, as always, David "i have issues" Hill so they should never appear in any game by any reasonable DM.

Has anyone ever tried reading Beast without looking at it as a way to write a 'me too' witty post for /wodg/?

We get it, the game sucks, jesus people shut up about it.

>>51508886
But there are new ways in which we find out why it sucks all the time. Like Conquering Heroes, the supplement that literally just came out.

>>51508875
An easier answer is to just use logic and ask your ST.

Sure the power of the Plain may work in X/Y/Z scenario, but there are a million and one situations not accounted for in the book that you can use a power to override their ability.

Are we turning into DnD 4th edition players in here, where we need 'how to roleplay' spelled out for us in the crunch?

>>51506557
I don't believe in Mathcbox 20. They're just a god -machine trick

>>51508922
Well Humanity is a stat block, just saying

>>51508875
What is the Plain?

>>51508582
Mages are humans. In theory a Promethean can complete their journey towards humanity then awaken as one. Which is now a character idea I want to see done

>>51508967
Most Prometheans don't remember being a Prommie once they become human though. Doing so is pretty exceptional and rarer even than just reaching humanity. It is like making a starting character that was previously a god that fell. Might look strange outside of games that call for it.

>>51508967
>all that work to become human
>just ditch it anyways in the pursuit of power
Could be a neat character arc

Next new power:

AM I BEING DETAINED!?

Resist grapple and provides increased defense

>>51509007
Should call it 'I thought this was America?!'

>>51508967
>>51508997
>>51509002
>All that work to become part of a lie you may have discovered as a Promethean
>Wanting to escape it and have true freedom
Makes sense to me.

>>51503135
What is Tier-4?

>>51508680
Beasts are human, the only difference is the Devouring.

Sin-Eaters are human, the only difference is the Bargain.

>>51509063
Seems to be used here to talk about god-like tier of splats, like Archmages. That impossible level for characters of a type to reach, where they are the rare, legendary, overpowered, beyond anyone else and barely what they originally once were. etc etc.

>>51508965

Were-Amish. Bitten by a radioactive Amish now they are curse with triggered pacifism.
Or this

>>51501998

>>51509102
Changelings are human the only difference is the Durance
Vampires are human the only difference is the embrace.

Your logic is a little spotty even more so given Beasts have their actual souls eaten.

>>51509142
So are there any splats other than archmages that are tier 4?

>>51509102
Homecoming for beasts was much better. Too bad they ruined it.

>>51509176
demon?

>>51509020

Perhaps:

DON'T TAZE ME BRO!

Lowers targets composure and he takes aggravated damage from electricity for the remainder of the scene

Ok, I'll stop shitting up the thread now, but that camera-thing is a fucking joke

>>51509102
Except that Mages fundamentally retain their humanity afterwards. No ghost is whispering in their ear and they gain no unnatural hungers.

Mages have more in common with hunters than they do any other supernatural. They also are the only kind of supernatural that makes turning sleepers into themselves a central conflict of their game line.

>>51509176
Only theoretically, none of the other game lines have had material published of how to play at that level. The closest I've read is a True Fae winning the game of immortals and ascending. But it never says to where or details post movie on. (And probably never will with 2e).

>>51509194
Uhm, vampires?

They have central laws about whether you can make someone else a vampire, and you risk getting dead for doing it, risk for keeping them alive after, etc etc.

It is a bigger conflict for vamps than for Mages. Only some of Mage society takes a big interest in how more Mages awaken.

>>51509281
That doesn't sound like a conflict, it sounds like a culturally solved issues that the only conflict is when people break the rules. Awakening people is highly contentious from Apprentice to Archmaster.

>>51509319
And you sound like an idiot.

Mages don't even know the full details of how people awaken. Their whole 'conflict' is them trying to figure out the full details. That is about as much conflict as wondering why your 10 piece is only 9 pieces. Who cares, you're already eating it.

Making more vampires is one of THE central conflicts of Vampire.

>>51509194
>and they gain no unnatural hungers.
What are Obsessions?

Mages may be the most human of them all, but psychologically they aren't the same. Wisdom and Obsessions show this.

>>51509281
You are missing the point

Vampires: have laws and shit about making more vampires, but do not view turning people into more vampires as an ethical imperative and if the whole world woke up one day as vampires it would not be viewed as a good thing. View mortals as prey, view themselves as something seperate from them.

Mages: Try to awaken more people, have philosophies saying that all sleepers fundamentally deserve to awaken. They view awakening as the natural state of humanity that has been supressed by the Exarchs.

>>51509413
>Try to awaken more people, have philosophies saying that all sleepers fundamentally deserve to awaken.

That sounds like a culturally solved issue.

>>51509441
Except it isn't and you clearly haven't read mage at all.

>>51509461
Whatever. It is still a lie to say 'They also are the only kind of supernatural that makes turning sleepers into themselves a central conflict of their game line'

You can twist words to make that sound true, but it just isn't. Mages are already unique enough, you don't need to lie to further that point.

>>51509441
Sure. Except that practically all attempts to speed people through Awakening turn out damaged monsters.

>>51509493
Like I said, the guy hasn't read mage and is just being a general vampfag wanting to be special.

>>51509536
>Mage player says Mages are unique
>Vamp player says no
>WHY DO YOU WANT VAMPS TO BE SPECIAL?

Magewank everyone

>>51509406
Obsessions are just an outgrowth of the aspiration mechanic all mortals have. Integrity is a feature of the lie (which is why seeing supernatural phenomenon is a breaking point) which the mages have escaped.

Mages don't gain any bans from their state (like silver, iron, fire, or sunlight) aren't granted longer life through their template (mummies, vampires) don't have another entity grafted onto their soul (beasts, geists), and don't have their physical nature's fundamentally altered (werewolves, and changelings)

>>51509556
Its not our fault all the authors (and the written material) agree with us.

>>51509556
Except that the whole point is that Mages aren't unique because they are the natural state of humanity, it's the other supernaturals that are the different ones.

>>51509595
read
>>51509194
and actually figure out what conversation is being had first.

>>51509612
>telling me to read my own posts

>>51509630
For the sake of your reading comprehension, I guess. Since you managed to forget already. I mean, that just makes it more depressing.

>>51509567
>>51509595
Dave mentioned that before Atlantis fell most people weren't Mages. There were more Mages, but it isn't the natural state of humanity.

>>51509666
I don't know why you think those posts are in any way contradictory.

All mages are humans but not all humans are mages. Humans should all be mages but the lie prevents that. This is the entire central conflict in the game but you would know that if you read even a single book in the game line.

>>51509712
Mages themselves aren't sure though, right? Some assume it to be, others assume it should go at a natural progression, others wish to block it because awakening seems to rip at reality.

>>51508573
Sadly, McFarland seems really to think this way

>>51509712
Some didn't practice magic sure but the potential for magic exists in all of humanity. That potential is what the Exarchs stripped and the Watchtowers put back.

>>51509731
If you don't even know what point you're trying to make anymore, no point in continuing the conversation bud. Just go back to arguing with the other guy.

>>51509731
Sleepwalkers are the actual true state of humanity.

>>51509741
And he can't stop his shit political views from leaking into this writing.

>>51508886
If they would manage to write a decent supplement, no one would complain

>>51509441
The Guardians of the Veil disagree

>>51509841
Yeah I know, which made >>51509413 's post a little weird. But I went with it for the one liner.

>>51508875
>Technology gifts counter "you are being recorded"
>The rage of the garu form counters "i am bleeding on you"
But What if they break out you're being recorded while in garou form? RAW it should go off without a hitch! Balance is a lie, there is only Archplain!

>>51504493
>generic barbarian

It's going to cover Romans, y'know.

>>51510124
Honestly, as an ST, I would rule that 'you are being recorded' only works on those who can listen to reason. While it would work on someone just in normal war form, if they entered into any sort of rage and were in 'attack nearest enemy' mode, the Plain would become a blood stain.

>>51510275

This 'you are being recorded'-nonsense, what is it from? Is it from beast, as I suspect? Is it a supernatural ability that uses cellphones or is it just misplaced and just trying to rule-ify the actual reaction to being filmed?

>>51510417

>>51510400
It's from the new blue book Hurt Locker, which has not been released with errata yet, so it may change. It is an ability from one of the pseudo-supernatural splats introduced in Hurt Locker. They are templates that you can apply to Mortals that are basically made up of a series of Merits.

>>51510275
>Honestly, as an ST, I would rule that 'you are being recorded' only works on those who can listen to reason.

This.

The idea that the Plain could somehow force stuff like rampaging werewolves or frenzied vampires to back off with comments like "b-but think of the consequences, you're being recorded" is just plain retarded, pun totally intended.

Yes, I can see it maybe working on a vampire not in frenzy because at that point they're still rational thinkers (for the most part). But the moment frenzy hits them, you either kill 'em or run away, because the third alternative is turning into bloody wallpaper.

>>51507324
>Great power, less impact, little to no influence

I thought you read the book? Archmasters shape the world. One of them literally erased the previous dominant world religion and Christianity was born. He swears on his life that he's trying to fix it. Dave described them as super-mages playing blackjack over their preferred versions of reality. Their impact isn't noticed because the previous version of reality never actually existed from your point of view.

>>51509491
>It is still a lie to say 'They also are the only kind of supernatural that makes turning sleepers into themselves a central conflict of their game line'
It's not, actually. Awakening is a much bigger deal for Mages than Embracing is for Vampires. Vampires have laws in regards to making new vampires, but that's about it.

Meanwhile over in Mage land each Order has different stances on Awakening, because they all have different philosophies and beliefs about how it can affect the world. It's a much bigger point of contention and a more prominent aspect of their culture.

So atamajakki, was Conquering Heroes the supplement Beast needed to become a good game? Because that *is* what you keep saying. That BtP will magically become a good game once it has a supplement or two under its belt. Well? Has it?