>hi Dex makes you more precise, so you're better at hitting

>>51475471
Stop playing bad games.

>>51475471
ITT: OP, too busy with the "fill your mouth with as many cocks as possible" challenge, assumes that every RPG is D&D

>>51475515
>>51475548
In his defense, Dexterity, Agility, Grace, whatever is often a really awesome stat and Strength often a really shit stat.

>>51475548
Half the things described don't happen in D&D. In fact only the first and third can happen and require a lot of investment to make work.

Because designers don't understand how to make stats.

Instead of figuring out what their system cares about and evenly spreading the important assets among the stats, they instead choose an arbitrary list of stats and then halfarse the job of making them all important despite them all costing the exact same.

It's an unfortunately common bit of bad design, but there are more and more games which avoid it and do stat systems well.

>>51475471

>Dex analogue is used to initiative, makes you harder to hit
>Does not give you more HP analogue
>Is not used to attack
>Does not increase your ability to utilize heavier armors or carry more shit

Play different RPG's, you monsterturd cumduck.

>>51475548
Off the top of my head, two systems that suffer from Dex=god badly are WoD and Interlock.

>>51475471
System? because D&D, PF, D20, M&M and a lot more systems don't work like that at all

>>51475548
That literally DON'T happen in D&D, so your argument is invalid

Any stat or ability that lets you take more actions is guaranteed to be the most broken one.

>>51475471
Because you play games where dex = coordination+agility+reaction time+reflexes, and str is just str.

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>>51475471
The 40k RPGs have almost none of these problems.
>Hitting things is tied to Weapon Skill and Ballistic Skill; Agility is used for things like dodging, performing acrobatics/parkour, etc.
>Barring the odd talent or trait, everyone has the same number of actions that they can take in a turn; agility only gives you an initiative bonus
>Certain rules allow you to do extra damage based off of agility and/or WS/BS, but this bonus doesn't usually give a huge advantage over more traditional forms of fighting (a sniper rifle with Accurate can do a ton of damage with a good roll, but so can a heavy stubber or chain-axe)
>Speed can be a problem, though rarely in my experience

The only case I can think of where Agility becomes massively OP is with the Vindicare Assassin class in Ascension, which most GM's forbid as a matter of course for that very reason.

>>51475548
Let me see
for the last 4 or so editions Dex doesn't determine they number of actions you can do, nor your speed, nor your damage nor your accuracy with melee weapons. So I'm going to assume you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

D&D has a lot of problems, but Dex being OP is not one of them, not even in 5e.

>>51477469
>What is Finesse?

Admittedly, though, that just lets you use Dex instead of strength, and when heavy armor doesn't even let you add any Dex to AC the difference becomes that the strength character can carry a bigger load (and probably has more armor) while the Dex character will have a better initiative (though the die roll is radically more important than the modifier there)

I don't think the OP is entirely wrong in the general sense, but dexterity is a poor choice of words since that usually means DnD, and DnD doesn't really have this problem.

>>51477606
>>51477469
In 5e dex would give you

+Accuracy, +Damage (Assuming ranged or finesse weapon), +Initiative, +Reflex, +Ac, +Skills that rely on dex (Stealth, Acrobatics (Grapple defense), Sleight of hand, Thieves tools)

Str gives

+Accuracy, +Damage, +Carry weight, Enables heavier armors (This can be given to dex if Mithral), and +Str skills the most important being Athletics, because it lets you initiate grapples.

The only times it's better to go str over dex is if you're using a weapon or class that requires it. Barbarian or a heavy Two-hander/polearm. (Though the new kensai allows all weapons to be dex now)

One thing to consider for str is it's one of the few stats that has items that can modify your value. Gauntlets of ogre strength set you at 19, the belts can push you past twenty. Though I feel this promotes boosting other stats and keeping str low.

>>51477606
>What is finesse
Assuming you're referring to weapon finesse in 3.5 I'd say it's both not overpowered, and a pointless feat tax that should have been built into the game instead (and had been since then)

>>51475471
I personally am okay with this because I am one hundred percent biased and prefer fast characters to hulking brutish ones.

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>my character is strength AND dex

>>51475471
It's the god stat IRL too.

>>51477707
reflex isn't a thing in 5e. There are both dex and strength saves, but dex saves are arguably better for being more common (dex saves tend to mean avoided damage, strength saves tend to be resisting forced movement). Also strength weapons are generally better as they tend to have higher damage dice as well as more variety as opposed to dex ones which are generally piercing. Strength is generally better for barbarians, paladins, and fighters that focus on melee

>>51475471
GURPS DX makes sense. It's used in combination with HT (health) to calculate speed, and is used as a base for pretty much all physical skills, because stabbing with a sword isn't something you do with raw strength.

The ST stat controls damage, Basic Lift, encumbrance thresholds, used to keep a hold of your weapon should it be grabbed, used in wrestling moves, etc. With sufficient strength, you can hold two-handed weapons with one hand a-la dark souls, do enough damage to push people 4 yards back, and pick up heavy shit (like another person) and toss it at people over large distances.

>>51475471
>Not separating Dexterity into 4 sub scores
>Hand eye coordination
>Agility
>Reaction speed
>Enunciation

>Not doing the same for the other main attributes

What kind of fucking pleb are you.

>>51478199

The sort who realises arbitrary attribute systems fucking suck

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>>51478310
>Arbitrary

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>>51478310
>Not using a system with extensive rules

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>>51478310
>Using arbitrarily grouped skills that have little to no connection to one another.

What the fuck is an acrobatics check.

>>51478357
>>51478427
>>51478481


Arbitrary as in 'starting with the attributes and trying to make them fit', instead of the far smarter option of figuring out what your system cares about, and then shaping the attributes to fit that.

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>>51478489
The initial complaint being that dex overpowers str. If dont like that, play a system that equally balances the attributes. Adding (sub)attributes further seperates and designates what does what. Nothing is "arbitrarily" grouped together.

>>51478557

That just sounds like an obnoxious clusterfuck that would be hell to actually play.

>High str makes armor less effective against you, so you're better at hitting things
>You can take more actions "because you can push yourself beyond normal limits"
>You can deal more damage because "your strength trumps technique" or some shit
>Makes you more durable somehow too.

Why is Str so ridiculously overpowered? In every RPG I've ever played Constitution gets completely fucked.

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>>51475515

>>51478629
>>High str makes armor less effective against you, so you're better at hitting things
>>You can take more actions "because you can push yourself beyond normal limits"
>>You can deal more damage because "your strength trumps technique" or some shit
>>Makes you more durable somehow too.
In which systems does this happen?

>>51478617
Yeah, that describes FATAL pretty well.

>>51478617
It's FATAL

>>51478652

In d&d, your attack modifier is based on whatever your primary attack stat is. That's kinda par for the course though, so you could rewrite the first one for literally any stat.

The second one I'm guessing comes from fighters getting extra attacks as part of their class features, but that's stat-independent.

Third one is true aside from the justification. In the games I play (shadowrun and d&d), str does more raw damage per hit, dex trumps it in number of hits dealt.

And the 4th one literally never happens.

All in all, 8/10 representation of the OP post. Could probably be used to bait another thread later on.

>>51478481
>>51478557
>Basketweaving
>Three variations on Comedy
>Coppersmithing
>Mangling
>Math is its own subability
>Nature, Trees apparently doesn't overlap with Nature, Plants
What abomination is this? FATAL?

>>51477182
>Dex=god
>WoD
Ironically, while Dex is indeed more important than Str in WoD, it doesn't do the things listed in OP other than helping you land hits.

>>51477606
A waste of a feat?
Congrats, you now attack with Dex on a small amount of weapons, your damage is still Str.

Also what you say is a feat, not a default rule.

>>51477606
Taking int account that with feats I can hit, damage, use ini and have CA with Int/Wis/Cha due feats and/or classes, what makes Dex so special then?

>>51478729
Yes.

>>51478629
>high con makes your dick harder, so you're better at hitting things
>you can take more actions 'because you're so hard'
>you can deal more damage because "you're hitting while hard" or some shit
>gives you more hp somehow too

Why is Con so ridiculously overpowered? In every RPG I've ever played Intelligence gets completely fucked.

>>51478838
He's not saying that all of these are things that dexterity always do, but that those are things that dexterity often do and sometimes it doesn't make fucking sense.

>>51477182
Also Shadowrun. Although there it's not called dexterity.
Point stands though.

>>51477281
The Vindicare assassin has so many fucking problems beyond that though.

>>51477168
>Doesn't suggest games.
>Is actually really unhelpful and kind of a fucknugget.

Unsurprising.

>>51478722
>And the 4th one literally never happens.
In other systems STR occasionally contributes to your HP.

>>51478629
No game I can think of has made strength overpowered though.
Like... none.

>>51479536
Could have well have replaced durability with speed since it more often contributes to speed.

>>51477167
Yet you'd failed to name one.

>>51475471
Literal manlets that can't accept reality. Str and speed alone are both weak, the real dangerous men are the ones who have both. A big fat guy can always get into shape and take up endurance training, but a manlet will never be able to grow taller and bulk up more than 20-30 lbs. And thus the trope of dexterity being greater than everything came to be.

>>51479512
Shadowrun at least splits the abstract concept of "dexterity" into "agility" and "reflexes" as separate stats, and your action economy is determined by entirely separate mechanics.

It doesn't matter if I hit a man in space in his armor if it will feel little more than a bee sting. It will always matter when I smash a guys head it.

Id rather be slow and get the hit than fast, precise, but do so little damage I wonder why I bothered

>>51477469
Attacks of opportunity. If you have a spear and high dex you can slaughter things before they even get close.

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>>51477786

>Not going Arcane

>>51479943
This didn't use to be the case though. It used to just have one generic gottagofast stat, and one generic gottabetough stat, and the fast stat was just... so much better.

And the action economy is based on reflexes, it's why you have reflexes.
It's just that they made the bonuses from magic or cyberware in that department so significant that they're basically the only thing that counts.

>>51478199
>Enunciation
wait hang on a second

>>51479214
desu intelligence IS kinda useless in 5e

>>51480026
>that serious response
holy fuck my sides

>>51480063
Well, in SR4 at least (which I admit is the only one I'm familiar with) Reflexes gives you initiative but not initiative passes. The only conflation between the stat and your number of actions is that things that buff initiative passes usually buff reflexes too.

>>51475548
That's not even DnD
>Dex and strength both improve your odds of hitting and your damage, except strength is usable for many more weapons.
>Don't get more actions for high dexterity
>Don't get to run faster for high dex

>>51475471
You should try D&D. Str handles melee. Dex handles missile. That's it.

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>>51478481
>>51478557
>Comedy, Buffoonery
>Delousing
>Impaling
>Massage
>Milking
>Pursemaking
>Remember Detail

my fucking sides

>>51480662
>Doesn't recognize FATAL

I remember when /tg/ would get together to try and make characters for this game

>>51477827
This reminds me of why I hate GURPS
>>51478199
This reminds me of why I hate Shadowrun despite how hard I try to like it