/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

I have a Promethean game coming up in a few days and I'm excited :D

Can't wait to see how magecucks ruin this thread

>>51450191
>What's something from a splat you've never played that entices you most about the idea of playing one?

"Going loud" I like the cheesy goodness of having a super saiyen form. Unfortunately, everyone in my area has too much of a hard-on for Judeo-Christian mythology to try nWoD demon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Ferrell

holy shit, anyone ever heard of this before?

>>51450322
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Ferrell
This man did LARPing right.

>>51450322
Never forget who you are

>>51450322
But what clan was he?

>>51450322
God, I was in high school when that happened. As a gamer from Kentucky, it was awwwwwwwful.

>>51450283
You can get your Judeo-Christianity in other splats, Demon doesn't obviate that

>>51450444
He was Baali. The guy took handfuls of LSD and washed it down with Kentucky liqour, until he lost the line between reality and fantasy. He thought offing Heather's parents would open the doors to Hell and grant him power, or some shit. By the time they locked him up for trial, he was telling the jailors how he would escape, because he was an "immortal ninja assassin".

My College came down extra hard on goths and wierdos that year. It fucking sucked.

>>51450511
I agree but some people in our hobby are of the mindset of "they've changed something so it sucks".

>>51450790
I mean, they doubled down hard on some themes of that in Promethean 2e even which came later so it wasn't retconned out or anything. There's a lot of shit going on in the setting! Not everything is spooky occult robot gods.

>>51450819
I've always thought of the GM as more of a Lovecraftian horror. Utterly alien and unknowable.

so do 7 humanity vampires have any type of feelings or whatsoever?

>>51450897
Yes, vampires still have feelings. Ignore VtR 1e, they backed that shit off with 2e and it was never true in Masquerade. Even low humanity ones have them.

>>51450897
Mine doesn't because feelings are gay.

>>51450191
>What's something from a splat you've never played that entices you most about the idea of playing one?

Mummy starting powerful and becoming weaker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG_0fna99p0

>>51451011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3vhpk7DhZM

>>51451033
>>51451011
Why are mummies the best pop culture thing that the WoD doesn't use as one of its big name lines?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1tAXVj8NHA

Are mummies all pseudo-egyptian or can they be based on other cultures that practiced mummification.

>>51451095
All mummies are from Irem. There's one singular origin point for them, though they spread over the world and given vagaries of memory they could easily think they come from somewhere else until about memory 4/5 when Irem starts to reassert itself in their deepest recall.

Also the Su-Menent are probably behind Mesoamerican mummification practice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVee6GU_RXM

Being unpleasant to be around or having trouble reading people doesn't give you superpowers. There isn't any sort of magical force that will give you something else to compensate.

Yet if you make your socoal group the lowest priority your character is suddenly much smarter and stronger.

How dare OPP fetishize having an unpleasant personality! It's incredibly offensive that they would treat a lack of charisma like it was some sort of payment to be made for other abilities.

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>>51451888
I can't figure out if you're just satirizing fat acceptance or also complaining about game simulationism as well

>>51451490
Elvira is mai waifu

>reading VtM books
>come across mentions of several vampires who actually have True Faith rating
>including a fucking Lasombra, who was one of the cardinals/archbishops in the Sabbat
>who used both True Faith and Abyssal magic at the same time

How? Just fucking how?

>>51452462
He got very lucky on his humanity loss rolls.

>>51452462
Moncada? He also made the Path of the Night because he thinks God made vampires to put the fear of him in mortals and make everybody better Christians

I don't know man Lasombras are bullshit I only like Obtenebration

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>>51452508

Yeah, Lucita's sire.

>>51452508
>He also made the Path of the Night because he thinks God made vampires to put the fear of him in mortals and make everybody better Christians
I see where the seed for the Lance in the nWoD came from.

>>51450322
Could Rod beat the Acid King, the other LSD-abusing teenage RPG murderer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Kasso

>>51453005
Well yeah, Rod's an immortal ninja assassin.

Would it be conceivable for the AA to come to the defense of the Seers if asked? Their charge is to 'defend the awakened' I'm looking for a moral conflict for a future game.

>>51453199
No, If the Exarchs are so great then they can save their own fucking Slaves

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>>51452462

>>51450252
>Can't wait to see how magecucks ruin this thread

Just don't question their undeniable superiority over the other gamelines. They want you to do that.

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>>51450191

That band is amazing live. If anybody an /tg/ actually enjoys going to shows I highly recommend them.

>>51453005
Excellent musical taste, though.

>>51453210
>If the Exarchs are so great
They rule the World of Darkness. Of course they're great. More than great, really.

>>51453352
So why do their slaves need Arrow assistance?

Fuck Seers

How do you get Attainments? Are they just freebies for buying new arcana dots?

>>51450932
2e Daeva Kindred have obsessive emotions as their new weakness.

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I have a question! Is there any splat capable of taking on a Mage on equal terms 1v1 ?

>>51453402
No

>>51453402
Demons?

>>51453402
A Mage

>>51453402
Deviants

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>>51453402

If that Mage is prepared and knows their opponent inside-and-out.

No. You're fucked. Not even a Demon is going to be spared.

Follow-up Question: Is there any two splats combined capable of taking on a Mage?

>>51453521
Only with the power of love

>>51453521
Beast and another Mage

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>>51453540

>Love is weak

>Hatred is eternal

>>51453562
Sometimes I think Dave developed Mage all too well. Hubris seems to rub off on its players.

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Are Mages the Jace of WoD?

>>51453588

The hubris is real. Power-mad munchkins abound.

>>51453199
Yes it would be conceivable for Praetorian to come to the defense of the Seers

>>51453402
A Mummy

>>51453199
>Would it be conceivable for the AA to come to the defense of the Seers if asked?
As a whole? No.

Now if there was a pylon of Seers who wanted out and came to the AA for protection, that would be a different story. And make sure they've done bad shit so that the argument for helping them can't be "No blood no foul".

>>51452508
>I don't know man Lasombras are bullshit

They scored points with me when I learned that they're the clan of pirates, including being the driving force behind the Sea Peoples, AKA the Bronze Age Vikings who actually did have horns on their helmets.

>>51453402
ST Fiat defeats everything.

>>51453402
Define "equal terms".

in Classic world of darkness do 1s take away from damage and soak rolls?

>>51453810
assume mages get all their advantages and the enemy gets none of theirs

>>51453902
Which is exactly how mages fight. They will deny you your freedom.

>>51453902
That's how it goes.

>>51453812
yes, but you can't botch either.

>>51454501
We get it, you love Mages. Now talk about something, literally anything else, you appallingly boring bastards.

>>51453812
>in Classic world of darkness do 1s take away from damage and soak rolls?

Every roll of "1" removes a success from the roll; if that removes all successes on your roll, it's a failed roll. If there are no successes and you also get a "1", the result is a botched roll.

This system still applies to damage and soak rolls, but unlike regular rolls damage/soak rolls cannot be botched, only fail/succeed.

So yes, 1s take away from damage and soak rolls, but you'll never botch such a roll, no matter how many 1s you end up getting.

>>51453199
No. Even other Seers won't come to the defense of Seers if there wasn't some pay involved or direct command from above. Seer society is edgy as fuck Social Darwinism on steroids.

>>51455464
I still don't get why some people think the Seers make better antagonists than the Technocracy. They are so ridiculously evil they make cartoon bad guys seem reasonable.

>>51455534
Nice generalization. I can do it too.

>I don't get why people think the Technocracy make better antagonists than the Seers. It's just technology vs magic bullshit. Wonder how long it took them to come up with that.

See?

>>51455534
Partly because the oMage is so badly written that even cartoon villains are more compelling antagonists than the Technocracy.

oMage will always read like the wet dreams of a luddite mixed with the worst kind of noble savage worldview.

>>51455565
Let's try to be serious for a moment. The Technocracy has a semi-reasonable goal (channel magic through their paradigm, which helps the common man but also suffocates freedom), while the Seers serve what according to mages is essentially the Demiurge, because they like being evil power-mongers. That's not an appealing antagonist to me.
>>51455573
It's certainly full of that, but Awakening and its pretentious pseudo-Gnosticism and cave myth allegory isn't much better.

So given the Seers don't give a singular fuck about each other, beyond as pawns.

Would it be feasible for my game to have exceedingly few Seers in the city? Say probably about... 10?

Mostly because those who weren't super fucking subtle and smart about it were killed in horrendously dangerous fucking bombings and surgical strikes by Blank Badges and other anti-Seer factions? A faction which now devoid of Seers to fucking murder is trying to stir shit with the Diamond.

Creating a city where there's not even a single fucking clue about the existence of the Seers other than conjecture.

>>51455622
Seers serve the Exarchs for a bunch of reasons. Some are indoctrinated right after Awakening. Some think the only way to get ahead is to work under the beings that literally rule the world. Some just don't care who they work for, as long as they get paid. Some want to rise to power in the Fallen World, and others want to be rewarded with Ascension.

Those are all things that real people would do. If your ST portrays all Seers as mustache-twirling politicker wizards that eat babies to gain the favor of the gods then that's on him, because diverse examples of Seers have been provided, in their own book and in others.

>pretentious pseudo-Gnosticism and cave myth allegory isn't much better
What the fuck does this even mean?

Oh shit, are you the extremely biased Ascensionfag?

>>51450252

Actually, here's a very weird question. This is from someone who has never played Mage before.

What's this about an 'Avatar form'? Because apparently Mages (like Voormas) can transform into something similar to their Avatar when they cross the Gauntlet? If so, that's the coolest thing I've ever heard, actually.

>>51455534
Precisely because they are ridiculously evil. They aren't "extremists with good intentions", or "not evil, but misunderstood", or "actually better than player characters". MtAw is ultimately a horror game, and Seers are horror antagonists, producting pure nightmare fuel as a side product of their life.

>>51455622
Awakening has gotten away from atlantis (it leaning so hard on it early in its life was a problem, I concede that) and done a lot to improve its overall setting in the years since the first corebook, but even if it hadn't it would be better by default since it actually went to the effort of giving the universe a cohesive metaphysics (one that actually incorporates disparate magical traditions better than Ascension ever did) instead of Brucato rubber stamping "idk magic, also TECHNOLOGY BAD!" where he was supposed to actually write that part of the setting.

>>51455661
>So given the Seers don't give a singular fuck about each other, beyond as pawns.
Mostly. Some Seer pylons actually do come together out of common beliefs and common goals, like cabals. Your average pylon though, is formed out of convenience and any member will turn on another if they think it'll get them a leg up in the pyramid.

>Would it be feasible for my game to have exceedingly few Seers in the city? Say probably about... 10?
Consilium dominated cities are a thing, yeah.

>>51455661
>Would it be feasible for my game to have exceedingly few Seers in the city? Say probably about... 10?
Seers aren't as numerous as Pentacle mages, so no problem with this.

>Mostly because those who weren't super fucking subtle and smart about it were killed in horrendously dangerous fucking bombings and surgical strikes by Blank Badges and other anti-Seer factions?
That depends on a city in question, because big and powerful cities will invariably be claimed by some Tetrarchy, and said Tetrarchy will fight tooth and nail for their turf.

>Creating a city where there's not even a single fucking clue about the existence of the Seers other than conjecture.
You know that isn't the Requiem, right? Mages can travel with ease, and there is no reason for global mage community not to exist.

>>51455704

Isn't Atlantis like, a metaphor? I mean, it was basically the same thing as the Tenth Sphere in Ascension, wasn't it? Like, the whole idea is that once there was a community of willworkers and wizard-kings, then everything went to shit. Whether there was a physical Atlantis is sort of besides the point.

Also, Requiem for Rome is a great campaign. If only the players could do, well, anything.

>>51455680
No, I dislike both versions of Mage but I find the Technocracy a more appealing antagonist than the Seers.
>>51455691
Well, I prefer antagonists who are at least vaguely sympathetic to make conflict with them a bit less shallow, since Mage is never going to be a serious horror game anyway.

>>51455718
>Isn't Atlantis like, a metaphor?
Not in 1e, no. Which is why I don't like 2e that much - at least 1e had an idea in setting. 2E is literally "lol, make your shit up".

>>51455718
Yeah, and if it existed it probably wasn't even named Atlantis. That name is canonically taken from Plato as something that has Supernal resonance with "the time before" which wasn't so much an ancient civilization as a previous iteration of the universe

>>51455732
>Well, I prefer antagonists who are at least vaguely sympathetic to make conflict with them a bit less shallow
Well, I don't think that makes conflict a less shallow. IMO it makes it even more shallow, because nowadays there is more poor misunderstood villains with good intentions than honest rotten to the core bastards.

>since Mage is never going to be a serious horror game anyway
I find it hard to imagine Mage not being a horror game. Why do you think Mage can't be a serious horror game?

>>51455732
>Well, I prefer antagonists who are at least vaguely sympathetic to make conflict with them a bit less shallow
Seers are vaguely sympathetic, you tool. I just gave you a whole list of very human motivations. They don't do what they do because they're evil and like being evil, unless you want them to be that way in your game.

And answer my question. What the fuck is "pretentious pseudo-Gnosticism and cave myth allegory"?

Have you read anything on Awakening aside from skimming the 1e corebook?

>>51455754

> I find it hard to imagine Mage not being a horror game. Why do you think Mage can't be a serious horror game?

It's harder, because of the sheer power of Mages. For instance, vampires can't really deal with - let's say - the Strix, because the Strix's only weakness are the same thing that vampires fear.

But Mages are extremely varied and extremely powerful. More, Mage stories don't usually have go toe-to-toe with combat monsters like in Werewolf chronicles.

>>51455718
>Isn't Atlantis like, a metaphor?
Not in 1e. It was meant to be taken the same way as Caine and the antediluvians in Masquerade. Like yeah, from a character standpoint it COULD be a myth, but as players we all knew it was real.

>>51455780
>It's harder, because of the sheer power of Mages
And for all that power, they aren't protected from the Exarchs or even more powerful Mages.

>>51455780
The horror of mage isn't about fighting horrible gribbly monsters. It's about one day finding yourself holding the knife above a human sacrifices heart because this spell needs a bit more umph and realizing that you have no idea how you became this.

>>51455754
I find most of the evil bastards antagonist to be shallow, because they have no motivations beyond being evil bastards. It's a vicious circle, really.
>serious horror game
Because for me most horror relies on certain feeling of powerlessness compared to the antagonist (if there truly is one) and a relatively small scale. Yes, Mages are weak against the big evil of say the Abyss, but I don't find it relatable since they can blast away/circumvent most common threats and challenges with relative ease.
>>51455765
I don't think they are. If for example they as a group were trying to avoid more people reaching Exarch levels of power or even suppressing all magic (including their own) to protect the stability and the common man they could be, maybe. I only see backstabbing social Dawinists that make the Nazis look united and competent.
>cave allegory
"The world as we see it is actually a poor copy of the supernal world were everything is perfect, and a select few have seen the world how it truly is and with this knowledge can fight the Demiurge."
I haven't read much of Mage because it doesn't interest me very much and I'm likely never going to play it. I can't spend time reading game lines that I don't like hoping to eventually enjoy it.

Thaumaturgy isn't a real Discipline.

>>51455894
Of course it's not. The Tremere aren't even real vampires, how could they have their own real Discipline?

>>51455881
>I don't find it relatable since they can blast away/circumvent most common threats and challenges with relative ease
...so don't give those common threats and challenges? The main enemies of mages are other mages, powerful spirits, paranoia and their own hubris. You can't make a horror game with common slasher after your mage, that's right, but you can make a horror game with Tremere liches after your soul.

>because they have no motivations beyond being evil bastards
That's there you wrong. Seers are good, because they have simple and very relatable motivations - they want to use their magic for their own gain - to get money, power and live a good live. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

>>51455881
>I don't think they are. If for example they as a group were trying to avoid more people reaching Exarch levels of power or even suppressing all magic (including their own) to protect the stability and the common man they could be, maybe. I only see backstabbing social Dawinists that make the Nazis look united and competent.
So for you to consider bad guys sympathetic they have to Technocracy 2.0? Basically good guys? That's retarded. You don't have to agree with bad guys for them to have sympathy, you just have to see where they're coming from.

>"The world as we see it is actually a poor copy of the supernal world were everything is perfect, and a select few have seen the world how it truly is and with this knowledge can fight the Demiurge."
None of this is true. The Fallen World is not a "copy" of the Supernal Realms, poor or otherwise. They used to be together, on the same frequency, if you will, and the Fall separated them and put the Abyss in middle. This is why Demesnes nullify Paradox, because the sympathy of a Mage's soul stone puts that area back on the Supernal frequency.

And there is no fighting the "Demiurge". The Exarchs have won. It's game over. Has been for all of the Fallen World's existence.

>I haven't read much of Mage
Obviously. All of your opinions are misinformed. How you can even hope to be taken seriously when you admit that you have no clue what you're talking about is beyond me.

>>51450322
Where I live, a kid got beaten to death while on the way home from a LARP.
Media took it and ran with, and claimed it was likely a vampire-satanistic ritual killing.

I seem to recall that it was a bunch of kids who bullied him in school, who, while drunk, lacked restraint.

(Kid in this post refers to teens, btw.)

>>51456060
The news loves to sensationalize shit.

>>51455984
Let's compare the Seers to the Camarilla or the Invictus. Many members of these organizations aim more or less to gain power and wealth by screwing over the next guy, but for me the Camarilla and the Invictus are more compelling because they were founded for a reason other than that: fear of being killed by rebellious neonates, the Sabbat/Strix or vampire hunters. The Seers instead decided to flock to the Exarchs, hoping that they reward them, and that nuance makes them completely different.
>>51456001
I paraphrased the core concept of the game, and I think it is a somewhat valid description of it. The exact nature of the "perfect world" and the demiurge is not what I was trying to define.

>>51456129
>The Seers instead decided to flock to the Exarchs, hoping that they reward them, and that nuance makes them completely different.
Great, more reductionist bullshit. As previously stated, the Seers serve the Exarchs for various reasons to various ends. I know this, because I've read the books and played the game. You haven't. You literally do not know what you're talking about.

>I paraphrased the core concept of the game, and I think it is a somewhat valid description of it
Debatable, but either way it's not the whole story. The concept of the game definitely is not to fight back against the Exarchs, and it's focus isn't so much on the last world being perfect as it is this one being a lie.

Please stop spouting misinformed and vastly generalized opinions. It only makes you look stupid.

>>51456129
>Camarilla and the Invictus are more compelling because they were founded for a reason other than that
And Seers were founded because somebody needs to upkeep the Lie and keep humanity Asleep. Why that doesn't make them compelling villains?

>>51456191
Whatever. As you said, I haven't played the game and I think it's Gnostic bullshit, so let's leave it at that.

>>51456210
Don't bother arguing with him. He doesn't know anything.

>>51456129
>Let's compare the Seers to the Camarilla or the Invictus. Many members of these organizations aim more or less to gain power and wealth by screwing over the next guy, but for me the Camarilla and the Invictus are more compelling because they were founded for a reason other than that: fear of being killed by rebellious neonates, the Sabbat/Strix or vampire hunters. The Seers instead decided to flock to the Exarchs, hoping that they reward them, and that nuance makes them completely different.

The Invictus were formed to keep vampires alive when Rome fell.
Constantinople lacked the vast set of catacombs Rome had had, which the vampires used to have a parallel society. Thus, a new order had to be established. They enforced the rules of silence, making sure vampires could live among humans.

Honestly, their drive to gain power is mostly convenience, as those in power know more, and thus can keep the Masquerade better.

>>51456256
Is this in Fall of the Camarilla? It sounds interesting.

>>51456339
Yeah. It's in the "What happens next"-part. Where they explain how the modern order began to grow.

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I just like How mage can explore other realms inside their head or in the concept of things. The weird things like the lower realms, planar exploration, and the creepy disturbing weirdness that can come from it.

Toss a bit of delta green low key, something is just off vibe and things are so cool. Keep the mages strong but not broken (like who would ever let wizards in 3.5 greater invis fly while SoDing everyone. Apply common sense, and creativity).

What's the coolest or creepiest mage encounter you've seen or ran? Best spell or combination of spells? This one my favorite, best setting? Be it planar or a home brewed local city or town!

>>51456391
>What's the coolest or creepiest mage encounter you've seen or ran?
Can't say for sure, but my players were freaked out by Abyssal car spirit which consumed all local car spirits and started possessing and fusing material cars with itself.

What happens to a Tremere that wasn't sired according to protocol and isn't a part of the pyramid scheme?

>>51456946
nobody knows, because to date everyone has FOLLOWED THE FUCKING PROGRAM!

>>51456946
They go Anarch, pose as an other clan or become extremely valuable Sabbat members since they aren't branded.

Right, finally getting round to uploading the 5 (!) session podcasts of the Eater of Names that I'd fallen behind on. Here's how the situation went with the human & Wolf-Blooded hunters I was asking anons for help last week: a wonderful clusterfuck.

Some of the hunters tried to lure the pack's weakest member into an ambush. It started badly, as she made the watcher assigned to keep an eye on her before the team was ready, but he managed to bullshit her into going to the prepped ambush location, where the 'bleeder' Wolf-Blooded had poured his Essence-stinking blood over everything to mask the ambushers' scents.

Unfortunately for the team, she figured out she was walking into a trap a moment before it sprang, and bugged out. She ran back to the pack, had a bit of a 'holy shit I am a liability to my pack' moment, then the group decided to track the hunters and put a stop to all this shit.

End result was a counter-ambush launched on about half the hunter cell in a warehouse. Absolute carnage for the hunters, but their silver weaponry inflicted some serious damage on the wolves, a big angry fire spirit got loose during the fight and set everything on fire, and the pack nearly had a death-raging Uratha running wild - the Elodoth used her auspice ability to calm the Rahu when he got stabbed with silver, but then she got shanked as well. A timely exceptional success on keeping control meant she managed to snap out of it.

The hunter cell has been half-gutted, and the pack captured one of the Wolf-Blooded for interrogation, but the damage has been done; they're gonna be walking into a diplomatic meeting with a Pure pack badly hurt and with virtually no Essence, setting them up for future predations as the Fire-Touched will think they're weak and vulnerable. The remaining hunters're gonna lick their wounds and come back for another go in the future; and the triad Incense Master who instigated the whole thing will next begin Phase 2 of his plan to deal with the pack.

>>51457100
>become extremely valuable Sabbat members since they aren't branded
>extremely valuable
Even if they weren't taught shit?

Guys, what if Atlantis isn't a literal past or a metaphor, but instead a destined future that Fell and its ruination was scattered backwards in time to the Sundered World due to sympathetic resonance of the coming symbolism of the wolves assassinating Father/Mother Wolf and the emergence of the Gauntlet?

>>51456946
They get killed.

>>51457192
>The remaining hunters

Aren't these your players? So what about the ones who just got killed, no rolling a new PC till this is over? That has to be boring.

>>51457223
Another Tremere or any other Sabbat who knows it can teach them Thaumaturgy which they will still learn quickly, and then send them to spy the Camarilla or in their labs.

>>51457335
Nope. It's a Werewolf: the Forsaken game; the hunters are an NPC group trying to kill the werewolf PCs.

>>51457510
Okay, I could have sworn they were the hunters from the way you framed this story set up there.

>>51457526
Nah; I posted to the /cofd/ thread last week about it, asking for creative ideas as to what the NPC hunter cell could do with their limited resources to try and cause trouble for the pack. I figured some of the anons who contributed suggestions might be interested to hear how it all went down in the end.

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>>51457192
>a werewolf podcast
cool I'll have to check it out. Surprisingly little of that line out there

>>51457324
>>51457446
So chances of staying neutral/not associated with a serious faction and staying alive are nil?

>>51457650
That's generally how it works for most abandoned fledgelings. It is not exclusive for Tremere. The Anarchs are probably the best choice in this case.

>>51457650
>So chances of staying neutral/not associated with a serious faction and staying alive are nil?
Unless you're Gangrel, yeah.

>>51458128

Or a Follower of Set. Or Giovanni.

Or a Tzimisce. They just don't like Camarilla fucks, but not all of them necessarily side with the Sabbat. They can just fuck to wherever and change their whole appearance whenever they want to and unless they have something unique to their aura you can't even tell who they are with a casual Auspex.

in Mage 2E, what are the possible sources of Geas?

The players in my new campaign will be some kind of (Mage-) Suicide Squad. Instead of bomb collars / whatever they will be bound by strong (but not unbreakable) Geas by the program chief (Fate or Mind Master, but I can also change that).

Would Changeling powers enable something like a Geas?

>>51458300
The thing is all of those are serious factions, except for the Old Tzimisce, but why would they embrace anyone who isn't an old Hungarian noble with his own castle and servants?

>>51455573
>oMage will always read like the wet dreams of a luddite mixed with the worst kind of noble savage worldview.
All of Brucato's writing comes off like this.

>>51458444

Hungarian? I think they were more into Wallachia/Romania.

>>51458479
Transylvania was mostly Hungarian until the 20th century.

>>51458497

I don't know much about the region myself, I just tend to be distrustful of bozgor claims over anything.

>>51458513
Well, it mostly was populated by Hungarians until they were deported after WWII, even if Germans, Romanians and other groups were very much present.

>>51458372
Adept/Master Fate magic could definitely do that. But I recommend the source of the spell being something beyond normal awakened magic like archmage or supernal being or True Fate or some other plot device.

From campaign experience binding a mage to a task is a great way to grant them arcane beats by the boatload and encourage them to learn a lot more about Fate magic. Once they get strong enough to sever the Geas things will get violent.

What do you guys do about player death? Do you let them roll a new character who's behind the curve or give them enough experience so they're equal footing with the rest of the party?

>>51458662
If it's not their fault and it was bad dice or it was a reasonable plan (even one using typically odd player logic), they come in at the same level as the party. If they died because they decided to bodyslam Godzilla and got justifiably eaten for their stupidity they come in at a lower level

>>51458662
If their character has unfinished business I let them come back as a ghost with their Arcana as influences.

>>51458662
I use a giant cloning vat that restores their avatars to new bodies with an added quirk or two (Like Venture Brothers but with more paradox markings). But I'm going for pulp adventure.

>>51458925
Whoops sent too soon, Basically if they die on an adventure they still get session XP but none of the more fringe benefits like stuff or hidden arcane lore or fancy new cyborg parts and materials.

>>51454501
remember this is what magefags think equal terms are

>>51459096
It is equal because its Fate and Time magic that made it unequal.

>>51459096
What do you think equal terms are?

>>51452508
i miss casting shadow tentacles in requiem

>>51459271
I was so happy when I read the Death Arcanum could do this, writhing shadow tentacles are the best power.

>>51455906

They are a bloodline of the Tzimisce, as Vampiric as you can get. They were made off of a mage turned into a Vampire, whose blood was used to turn other 7 mages into Vampires with a spell, after that, new childe are embraced like all other major clans embrace theirs.

As much of usurpers as they might be, they are kindred alright.

>>51457595
The podcasts of My Eater of Names campaign so far are all up at http://shoutengine.com/InSanityWeTrustProductions/

There's a thread on the OP forums for it as well, with notes and rules and all that sort of stuff.

>>51459421
Yeah I found the podcasts via google but
>There's a thread on the OP forums for it as well, with notes and rules and all that sort of stuff.
is nice to know

>>51459271

I haven't read any of the 2e shit. Did they take that away?

>>51457100

Aren't Tremere embraced outside the clan stucture, automatically branded as Antitribu by the ritual?

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Which type of Bastet makes for the best boyfriend?

>>51459552
The only good theriomorph is a dead theriomorph.

>>51459462
If you're descended from Goratrix's blood, yes. IF you're one of the weird rare Unbondable ones who avoid their clan flaw, or have that Merit that makes you not bound to the Pyramid, no.

>>51459616

Admit it, you'd suck his dick. I'm sure everyone who posts in this thread would suck a hot cat guy's dick if presented the chance.

>>51459631
Aren't unboundables killed on the spot anyway? Isn't the point of the Tremere system that there aren't antitribu?

Any straggler that's not of Goratrix's blood that bumps into the sabbat will be snuffed by any pissed off Tzimisce they come across.

>>51459616

After a hard day of exploring Mysteries, there's nothing like sitting back in your vampire recliner on your lycanthrope rug drinking some wine in front of a cozy fire.

>>51459685
Generally, yes, but sometimes you get lucky (after all, player characters are Speshul Snowflakes). As far as Antitribu, that's what Goratrix's line and those who defected with him are. Ignoring the massacre of them near Gehenna, they are a valid part of the Sabbat.

But generally, 99% of non-Goratrixian Tremere are in the Camarilla; that 1% of Independents are mostly Telyavic (Pagan sorcerers who ran away long ago) or those few freaks who were able to escape the Pyramid's thumb somehow.

>>51459685
>Aren't unboundables killed on the spot anyway?
sure. they use their unbondable locating rituals to do it.

>>51459738

It's enough knowing who the sire is, and use their blood in a ritual.

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>>51459552
I don't know about boyfriends but lion girls would make the best girlfriends

You could sit all day sleeping and drinking and have her do everything

>>51459738
Path of Blood 1 tells if the target as blood bonds.

>>51459701
>not having your "fire" be an imprisoned flamesiren changeling

>>51459769

I didn't ask about your stank ass vagina hoes, I asked about some big dick kitty boys.

>>51459761
you seemed to have missed to point of them not having a way to figure out who is unbondable.

>>51459769
>You could sit all day sleeping and drinking and have her do everything
Werelion packs are the best way to piss of Black Furies.

>>51459794
since when? oh never? ok.

>>51459825
feminine catboys is where its at

>>51459820
>>51459701
>drinking some wine in front of a cozy fire.

Not wine, rather delicious changeling tears in a goblet carved from the bones of a Beast.

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>>51459908

Do I look like I want some faggot twink? Get the fuck out you homo. STUDS or BUST!

>>51459829

They tend to know if you leave the clan, though. unboundable as you might be.

>>51459890
I'm sorry, you're right. I'm used to using the new LARP version which has that function if you have a specific Focus, TT does not.

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>>51459936
>>51459825
I give you this offer of peace you big cat lover

>>51459832
>Werelion among Black Furies
There's no way this doesn't end badly

>>51460002
>There's no way this doesn't end badly
If I ever get the chance I'm going to do it in a LARP.

>>51460002

>Simba among Garou, period

That will never end well regardless of Tribe or affiliation. That's the two biggest, cuntiest groups of shapeshifters in the WtA world stumbling into each other.

>>51460002

Thanks I don't have that one.

>>51460002
There is no way that bulge doesn't end amazingly.

>>51460002

If that's Appearance 0 then I don't want to know what an Crinos with App 5 looks like.

What happens when someone has Charisma or Appearance at 10?

>>51459936
All I'm saying is femboys are better than bara. I don't think that's such a controversial opinion to make :D

>>51460188
So beautiful that anyone who looks on immediately falls to his knees and takes his life because they shall never behold such beauty ever again

>>51460188

I would help if Appearance actually did anything mechanically besides be a dick waving stat for how hot your character is/isn't.

>>51460268
I'm glad they made it a merit it NWoD. Makes it easier to spot the snowflake.

>>51460268
It helps with seduction and first impressions.

>>51460334

>knowing how to dress, groom yourself, work out, convey body language and confidence, and ''''''genetics''''' is being a 'snowflake'

I guess that makes sense coming from the jealous troglodyte board.

So if Ventrue was struck down at the second city, what happened to his wraith?

>>51460421
It sounds like you've never run a game with over 30 people. Its only one type who goes for it every time, and its not the pretty people.

>>51460435
Vampires don't make wraiths.

>>51460481
Cappadocius?

>>51460441

I'm sorry most nerds re: you don't know how to dress, groom, or obtain aesthetics. Even people with good genetics need to put effort in to look attractive.

>>51460441

>running a game with 30+ people

LARP doesn't count, that's a homing beacon for unwashed social outcasts and hamplanets

>>51450322

I wish my players were this dedicated

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>>51452462
Its not impossible for a vampire to have True Faith. One time a friend of mine was going to run a Victorian Vampire game [never ended up happening] and my character idea was a nun who became Embraced against her will.

I was going to fluff it as her True Faith actually relieving her of many of the 'symptoms' of the curse of Caine, by giving her every single 'be more human' advantage there is. Light Sleeper, Eat Food, Blush of Life, I even made her count as Caitiff despite a relatively low generation purely to RP her as lacking a Clan Curse [again, due to True Faith]

Was going to make much of her RP finding some way to 'adapt' to vampiric existence without compromising her beliefs and principles.

>>51450932

But they had feelings in 1e as well if I recall correctly, I think the wording was that they had feelings, but they were 'echoes' of feelings, so a bit muted. Fits a corpse, I'd say. I think 2e seems a bit unnecessary for Vampire at least, what's the consensus on it?

>>51451490

Surprisingly not as shit as the sentence 'Elvira monster rap' indicates.

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>>51452462
>>51460544

These two had a very compelling story and reason for why they might have True Faith.

Also a surprising happy ending for a VtM campaign. What a trip that game was.

>>51460544

I could see that working but I don't know how well the character would last. After awhile other Kindred are going to take an interest.

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What's the best way for a Mage to 1v1 a Werewolf?

>>51460617
Exist.

>>51460617

Do you want the 'lul instant win' lazy faggot way or the Fun way?

Are Space and Mind cool enough to warrant having Matter as an inferior arcanum? Because matter is tight as fuck, but I also am in love with Space.

>>51460617
Turn parts of his body into silver with a transmogrifying ray.

>>51460617
Depends a lot on the mage's path and the werewolf's particular Gifts, really.

>>51460617

Use Life and Forces, craft your own 'warform', slug it out with the werewolf mano-a-mano. Also throw fireballs and shit. Or set yourself on fire. Give yourself silvered claws, fangs, pincers, etc.

Be sporting about it! Its more like an exhibition for you than a life or death battle. Approach them on their level - but have contingencies if he's too dumb to realize you're just messing around.

>>51460631

You could always join a Legacy with Matter as its Ruling Arcanum.

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>>51460631
Be a Buddhist who flies while sitting criss-crossed and does lots of iddhi [psychic powers]
>>51460615
The only things that would really 'give her away' as any different to a usual kindred is that she has an unusually high Humanity [not that unusual for a neonate] and the fact that a cross in her hands actually repels her kin.

Not the most difficult thing to avoid detection.

>>51460220
Except not all guys want femme. If we did, we'd probably be with women. Also, take this shit to /soc/ God damn it.

>>51455717
>That depends on a city in question
It is a big and powerful city.
However I'll likely justify that by saying they did fight tooth and nail.
They just lost.
But the other Mages paid a hefty price as well.
Brutal Shadow War.

Also yes I know that there's global mage community.
And the people of the city know Seers exist.
However they have no idea where the remaining Seers in their city are, if they are even there.

>>51460617

A Thyrsus is going to make short work of that Uratha. Or a Mastigos just uses Ban.

>>51460665
I did that once with an Obrimos specializing in Mind.
Even wrote a Legacy about it.
+2 Yantra for levitating in midair in the Lotus Position

>>51460665

Okay, now.. how does this fit into a standard game? Where does this character work within a Coterie? especially if they are completely uninitiated into the Kindred world and a Caitiff at that.

I'm sorry but your concept works better as an NPC or a character in a novel, not in a TTRPG that necessitates group play.

>>51460673

Some of us might also be women who want dude characters who look masculine and aren't gay bara homos for fucking once.

>>51460627
>'lul instant win'
Transmute their flesh to silver?

>>51460697
>A character with high Humanity who resists indulging in vampiric nature doesn't fit into a Vampire the Masquerade game.

I. Uh. What? Unless every other character in the group is a bloodthirsty low-Humanity monster, I don't exactly see a problem here.

>>51460678
>Mastigos mentally rapes the Uratha

Fixed it for you, Anon.

>>51460673
I just want to have a femboy character who crossdesses, is that so wrong?

>>51460722

Right, we have lots of answers like this, which is why I suggested >>51460657

Because honestly, if you wanted to be demeaning to the werewolf in question (and werewolf fans) then wouldn't you want to break them at their own game? Fight them head on their way and kick their ass.Show them that you're better even at their own specialty.

THAT is how you act like a supremacist shithead. Not going 'lol lawnchairs!!' and sniffing your own farts. That's so basic bitch and lacks any creativity or effort in how your humiliate your inferiors.

>>51460749

You got Changeling, Vampire, Mage, Promethean.. just about every other line for that.

>>51460749
If your fellow players and ST are cool with it, no.

>>51460749

>thinks a manfaced crossdresser with mental problems is more likely to touch his dick than an actual woman

lol

>>51460657
>Or set yourself on fire
Werewolves can't catch you when you're on fire?

>>51460792

What if that Mage used Matter 4 to turn that fire into SILVER fire, instead? Could the Werewolf even touch him at this point?

>>51460735

Why would your character be hanging around them? You even admitted that they would repel them. The character has no initiation into Kindred society. Why would they want to explore it and operate within it? Why would they beholden themselves to an Elder? Why would they do 99% of the things Kindred do when they're actively trying to avoid them?

Why would they ever leave their convent? Why wouldn't they vanish into a small parish in the middle of nowhere and hide out their bleak unlife existence in simple servitude to God, away from all these horrible monsters?

How does this work at all with a standard group of Kindred PCs and Kindred plots? It doesn't. I would honestly say this is an actual example of being a snowflake, because what you're described and designed would slow a game in its tracks to bend and contort around your character - or actively ignore her. At best (and worst) you've forced the ST to run scenes seperately mid-game *just for you* because your character can't function within the rest of the group and their society. Do you have any idea how obnoxious that is, to both PCs and the ST?

>>51460764
Why would I need other players permission to play a character I want to play as?

>>51460766
I don't have a dick :)

>>51460792
In OWoD Fire is man's tool against the darkness and it does aggravated to damn near everything. They're welcome to try catching an on fire wizard, at least they wouldn't frenzy over it like a Vampire.

>>51460617
>What's the best way for a Mage to 1v1 a Werewolf?

Too many variables.

If the mage is a master, it's game over now matter the Path or Arcana. Moreover, if sufficiently creative, can use any Arcana to beat anyone, werewolf or otherwise.

I personally like using Forces. Controlling gravity is just so fun and useful, whether you're sending an opponent hurtling towards the outer atmosphere (or in any direction of your choosing), crushing them like an insect or just dropping them (or something on them) from great heights,

A death rage is nearly as impressive when the werewolf is 50 feet in the air and can't go anywhere but down.

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>>51460617
>be Moros
>find a suit of armor
>like a real fucking knightly suit of armor
>transmute it to silver
>enhance its durability and efficiency (even weight distribution, fluid movement, etc)
>shape spikes on the plates and on the gauntlets and knuckles
>now throw mage armor on top of your literal armor
>then use necromancy to summon an undead horse with the "Metal Dead" spell
>this spell animates skeletons and transmutes them to razor sharp metal with razor wire spikes for joints
>silver in this case
>obviously
>find or make a knightly weapon, enhance it and transmute it to silver
>preferably a morning star for maximum smitage
>next summon tons of ghosts and zombies and more metal skeletons
>quicken them if possible
>preparations complete
>mount your death metal steed and lead your legions of undead on a unholy crusade to purge the bastard wolfmen
>?????
>profit

>>51460631
Inferior arcanum is a speed-bump at best. Play whatever you want.

>>51460832
1. Crosses wieled by a person with True Faith have to be held and presented to repel a vampire.

2.
>Why would someone who became a vampire, had no idea vampirism was a thing, and had no idea what was going on with her seek knowledge of her condition.

Really I could go on, taking apart every piece and parcel of your post, but really I'm too busy laughing that such a simple concept as "High humanity vampire more horrified then happy they have fangs", literally a bargain store char concept in that game, has somehow managed to make some anon on the internet so upset.

Never play WoD again, tap-dancing Christ.

>>51460823

Silver fire would require Matter 4 and Forces 4.

As a general point, unlike other splats, never forget that all mages can inflict aggravated damage at a distance with any Arcanum at 4 dots. Using silver is just adding insult to injury.

>>51460860

Classic over-kill Necromancers. They have just too much fun, don't they?

>>51460823
Fire isn't actually a substance, its a reaction. Doesn't transmuting shit require equivalent masses of material? Fire would fall under Forces or something.

>>51460631
Then just be a Moros who also studies Space.

>>51460823

Depends on the Werewolf and the Gifts they're using, and if we're talking WtA or WtF.

If WtA, assuming its an Ahroun, they could have Kiss of Helios which makes them immune to natural sources of fire and unnatural ones only do 1/4th of their normal damage (reminder that Garou can soak aggravated damage..)

If he is also a Silver Fang, he could use Luna's Avenger to become immune to silver for the scene, and gains +2 dots of Stamina and an extra health level.

So the conventional ways of murdering them are out, but you could totally fuck them up every other way. Or simply kill them before they can activate any Gifts.

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>>51460481

The funniest thing about the mage supremacy posters is that most of them don't actually know how the Awakening rules work, even when they're assuming the perfectly spherical mage with all Arcana at 5.

>>51460901

see >>51460889

Is there any kind of trend in the types of people that awaken to different paths? I'm trying to get into this game. Trying to wrap my head around what making a character would be like. I just don't grok the why of this game.

>>51460873

Its a problem if they're actively avoiding Kindred society and other Kindred but expect to otherwise participate in a group game. Its a group game at its core. Everyone else is a normal ass Kindred. Compromises are going to have to be made on behalf of the nun player.

>>51460889
Fire made from burning silver doesn't do anything special to werewolves. It's just fire.

Turning a werewolf into silver doesn't do anything special either, since it's not actually inflicting damage. I mean, beyond the fact they're now dead anyway due to having been turned into something other than living flesh.

>>51460915

I feel like you're just typing that because of an obvious disagreement on your mind. It's okay.

>>51460939
Literally no more then any other high humanity character. No one said the nun character would avoid Kindred society, and there's a half dozen reasons such a person would be involved, from seeking to understand vampirism, curiosity, being manipulated.

Hell, where's her sire in all this? Last I checked neonates aren't exactly totally free to do as they will anyway.

>>51460944
Feel what you like. While you're crying over in the corner with your emotions, some of us will play the games with their actual rules.

>>51460938
None that the awakened can discern. People who become mages tend to be obsessive and goal oriented.

>>51460942

Forces 4 and Matter 4 would do far more than just burn silver. It would create a substance/energy that has the properties of both silver and fire combined. While interesting, it would be overkill.

>>51460942
>Fire made from burning silver

It is entirely possible to give fire the qualities of silver. Creative Thaumaturgy is a thing.

>>51460963
Literally says that they're a Caitiff.

>>51460971

How mature. Let's call people illiterate just because they have opinions opposing that of mine. Grow up.

>>51460991
>Caitiff is a complicated term with two general meanings. The first meaning is more of a political term: those of a flawed or unknown lineage, who have been abandoned by their sires. It's not so much that they lack a Clan as they lack the support that comes with the Clan structure. It carries the implication that they were a mistake by their sire. Many of these unfortunates are considered Caitiff simply because they don't know which Clan they come from, because they had not been told. It's an arbitrary title and may refer more specifically to an Outcast.

>The second and more biologically-oriented Caitiff, also known as the clanless, are rare cainites that do not officially belong to any clan. These vampires have no inherent clan weakness, but no inherent disciplines as well. None of the typical clan markers apply to them.

>>51460975
>People who become mages tend to be obsessive and goal oriented.
Well, I think I've found why I can't get into Mage. But seriously, so the only reason a Mage awakens to a particular path is the player felt like it?

>>51460889
Is there a spell that lets you do that at those Arcana, or are you assuming its possible with creative thaumaturgy?

>>51461053

They would have been forcibly initiated or , more likely, executed by the Prince's orders.

A high True Faith human-acting Kindred who doesn't want to play by the rules is a huge liability..

>>51461053

Isn't the Inquisition still active during the Victorian era? If the Kindred didn't get her they certainly would.

>>51461058
Certain personalities tend to cluster around certain Paths but its not an absolute thing, its just a trend.

Scientists, academics, theologians and the like tend to become Obrimos, and its very odd for someone whose bubbly and cheerful to be a Moros.

>>51461087
>Scientists, academics, theologians
>HOLY FIRE AND COUNTERSPELLS.path

not sure

>>51461058
Essentially yes. The inability to predict awakenings is a source of frustration in universe.

>>51461079
The Technocracy in that era is headquartered out of London, Victorian Vampire doesn't even make sense. The right response to such metaplot is ignore it.
>>51461077
I really don't see it that way. Besides the fact that crosses can be weaponized and people with Auspex may be a little freaked out its no different then any other high humanity nobody being made into a vampire.

>>51461059
>assuming its possible

>assuming it's possible

We know it's possible. That's entirely the point of the Practice of Patterning.

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>>51461059

Creative thaumaturgy, but all direct attack spells in the book permit infliction of aggravated damage with Reach and mana.

Also, Arcanum 5 attack spells are save or die, and with an exceptional success, there's no save.

>>51461058

You can't choose your Path. The Watchtowers seem to have a particular bias for certain personalities and choose for you.

>>51461114
>The Technocracy in that era is headquartered out of London, Victorian Vampire doesn't even make sense
No, that at least does make sense. London was very much the technological capital of the world during most of the 1800s. Germany didn't really start giving them a run for their money until like 1880 or thereabouts.

>>51461089
Giving one thing the qualities of another thing is not the Practice of Fraying.

Given that Elricsson is a huge Vampfag and its going to, again, be the flagship game for One World of Darkness, how much do you think they'll change Mage in 5e?

Especially now that everyone has to share and respect each others metaplot. =^)

>>51461059
Unraveling attack spells do lethal damage by default and with reach and a point of mana it turns to aggravated.

Combined with the proper spell factors it means you can put out spectacular amounts of damage at the adept level against targets without magical defenses.

>>51461155

I have deleted it out, Anon. It is the Practice of Patterning.

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>>51461095

Obrimos are about finding order in chaos, and equally appropriate for scientific and religious types.

>>51461095
An awakening is an intense and possibly traumatic experience. Most emerge with changed personalities.

>>51461172
Patterning can do so much more than just turn fire into silver-fire. You could also add Life to it, transmuting you into a living pillar of silver-fire. A terrifying thing to see for any single Uratha.

>>51461172
You realise that's not what the Practice of Patterning says it does, right? Or is my version of the corebook out of date?

>Patterning spells allow a mage to completely transform a target into something else that falls under the Arcanum’s purview.

Note the 'completely' part. You can probably give fire the properties of silver more easily than with Patterning, by using Weaving at 3 dots instead.

>Weaving spells can alter nearly any property of a target without transforming it into something completely different.

>>51461215
>Holy Thermometer Of Doom

best spell

>>51461149

So how does one know which Path he/she will Awaken to?

>>51461215
>transmuting you into a living pillar of silver-fire

While impressive, how many mages actually possess Forces 4, Matter 4 and Life 4?

>>51461233
One doesn't

One has a bad trip and the next thing one knows, one is a magical demigod

>>51461233
IC: The Mage doesn't know until they awaken.
OOC: The player chooses the one he thinks fits his character.

>>51461233
It's determined by the manner in which you Awaken, which is determined by the mentality and perspective you foster with your nascent obsession, influenced by perhaps your mystery play.

>>51461246
Virtually none. Most areas won't have any mages with that particular triple set.

>>51461233

A person has no idea what Path they will Awaken to. However, certainly personalities tend to Awaken to certain Paths.

>>51461246
A fair few, but likely not a significant number in any given area.
Third degree Adepts are somewhat rare.

You do only need Gnosis 4 for that though.

>>51461246
>>51461280

Dave has said non-Masters can be fourth-degree Adepts. I don't know where you're getting your statistics from.

>>51461315
PERFECTLY SPHERICAL MAGES

>>51461159

I'm guessing the consensual reality thing is going to take a big hit in the balls and writing, mechanics development, etc. should be a lot tighter but ultimately they'll keep the same laughable system imbalance within and especially across splats because 'muh nostalgia'.

>>51461058
>Obrimos
Dutiful people, believe in order, usually religious to some extent.
>Moros
Morose, single-minded, has had a brush with death.
>Acanthus
Flighty, unrestrained, whimsical. Gypsies and the like.
>Mastigos
More focused on ends than means, individualists, impersonal and distant.
>Thrysus
Wild, unrefined and unorganized. Think hippies and nature-oriented sorts. Likes to fuck werewolves.

These are all just stereotypes. The books clearly say that there is no solid way to predict who will Awaken, and what they will Awaken as. They focus more on telling you what the Mage is more likely to be AFTER Awakening, because one of the big themes of the game is the effects that your power will have on you.

It's on you to decide how your character was as a Sleeper, and how their power will change them as a Mage.

>>51461350
>Acanthus
>>power gamers and general twats, probably also DaveB's girlfriend's favorite

>>51461315

Adepts seem to be far more common than I realized.

>>51461222

You realize some Practices mimic other Practices, right? Givine life to fire isn't the same thing as changing it into a bear.

>>51461095
An Obrimos could also use their power to interface with and enchant machines.

Don't buy into the stereotypes anon.

>>51461315
'Can be' and 'commonly are' are two very different things.

>>51461411
>machines

Sounds kind of Moros-ian

>>51461315
>Dave has said non-Masters can be fourth-degree Adepts

"Can be" is not the same as saying or implying third degree adepts are even remotely common, noless with the precise Life, Matter and Forces combination.

>>51461323
>PERFECTLY SPHERICAL MAGES

That only requires Life 4. It's practically amateur hour at the sanctum.

>>51461410
Most people will use Patterning over Making for this exact reason.

>>51461350
Thanks, this helps a bit. Still stuck feeling lukewarm to the game and only wanting to like it.

>>51461448
If you want to feel good about Awakening, don't come here. None of these idiots have ever actually played the game, let alone the second edition, but they will insist their opinions are fact.

>>51461233
You don't. Most awakenings fall under two categories mystery plays and supernal journeys.

Mystery plays are the most common. The potential mage develops an obsession perhaps they're hunting a rare beast, trying to build a better super-charger for their car, or trying to find a faster route through town while delivering pizzas. As they focus on the task over the course of hours, days or even years symbols of supernal truth may appear. That game warden telling you to get off the property may represent preservation, the timing chain that keeps slipping may be entropy, the angry motorists trying to run you off the road maybe personal demons of doubt. Eventually the task will be complete and there maybe a moment of insight into reality and the meaning of what they've been trying to accomplish. If the person realizes this and accepts it they'll awaken and it'll be like an explosion of supernatural power.


The less common but no less significant awakening is an astral journey the potential mage usually in a moment of emotional stress will find themselves in an out of body experience in a realm completely alien to earth. There they will stay potentially for years by their perspective until the reach a tower which afterwards they'll return to earth with an explosion of supernatural energy.

>>51461477

Are you some sort of psychic? You seem to think so.

>>51461477

This. I'd read the book and come to your own conclusions. Second hand info is misleading.

>>51461477

>doesn't like other peoples opinions

>calls them illiterate

I'm starting to wonder if you have even played Awakening, to be quite honest.

>>51460915
People read an old version of a rule book, read the 'big' changes and update their knowledge with that. They don't reread the book and find the little changes that make big differences or the little nuances that make all the difference. Also there is a lot of contamination with 1e and that can't be good.

A lot of people say a mage can spend a willpower on a wisdom roll. If you bought a hardcover and turn to page 88 it explicitly says you can't.

Read the section on Gnosis(pg 84 - 86). That is your hard cap. The limits of arcana section(pg 84) is about when you need a teacher(never for your ruling and only at the end for common, while pretty much everything in your inferior).

So with Gnosis 3 you can pick up your first 4th dot(you don't need a teacher but they do help), and you can pick up a teacher for your inferior arcanum to raise it up to 3.

The greatest mistake mage made was putting the experience section before the Gnosis section. because seeing the costs to everyone and the caps at what you can get without a teacher made everyone think those were the hard caps for Gnosis 1 mages(those hard caps are on the actual chart).

Seriously we would have half the mage supremacy if they put the EXP section after Gnosis and mana.

>>51461414
Here Is what Dave has said about that

>"It's more common to raise a second, or third, Arcanum to 4 than buy one up to 5"

He also mentioned that it can take anywhere from a single year to a decade at most to reach Adept status. Adepts are far more common than you realize, Anon.

>>51452462
Those who really believe will do circle reasoning and goal-post moving as much as it's needed. That's the point of true faith, and faith in general, it's the opposite of reason. If it doesn't make sense, that's faith.

>>51461572

Are you trying to make yourself feel better by pretending like you know what people have/haven't read? I am starting to feel a bit depressed on your behalf if you care this much.

>>51461510
Personally from my reading it's got the Geist problem, possibly worse. The only things to do are the things you decide you're going to do. And they've got too much power. How you get there is more interesting to me than what you do with it. Even if it takes a bit more experience to get that the fact that fucking every problem can be dealt with through magic makes them very boring to me. I'm asking because clearly a lot of people find them very interesting and I'm wondering if there's something I missed or if it's just a fundamental difference between what I find interesting and what mages do.

>>51461618
>Adepts are far more common than you realize,

This issue is how common are 'third-degree' adepts or anyone with at least 4 in three Arcana, no less the combination of Forces, Matter and Life which any two are not Ruling for any Path.

>>51461666

No, most people find them fascinating because its an exercise is power fantasy. The same reason people who play D&D 3.5e masturbate so furiously over full spellcasters like Wizards, Clerics and Druids, et al, and get their hackles up any time they get tweaked, nerfed, or anyone who isn't a full caster gets buffed. Or when the entire edition shifts to a system that doesn't explicitly favor them above everyone else (see: 4e.)

>>51461666
There's nothing wrong with Mage being the strongest of the gamelines. It has always been so despite the pretention of the deniers.

>>51461572
>Seriously we would have half the mage supremacy if they put the EXP section after Gnosis and mana.
A minor point. But I understand what you're saying. but really fighting memes on this thread is hopeless

>>51460676
That's perfectly feasible. Just don't forget that new Seers will appear sooner or later.

>>51461685

I am going to take Dave's words over yours, sorry. You seem to think that you are omniscient. You could always just call me illiterate, like you do to everyone else. It seems to be the only way you can ease the stab of that low self-esteem of yours.

>>51461572
You're trying way too hard arguing over absolutely nothing.

>>51461786

No one has suggested that adept mages are uncommon. However, Dave has not stated that third-degree adepts (or even second degree adepts) are common.

You're extrapolating based on your own preferences, not anything contained in the books are said by Dave.

>>51461666

They gain the most power for the least amount of sacrifices and drawbacks. They are still basically human, or human+ if you prefer. An optimizer's wet dream.

>>51461696
I never said there was a problem with it being strongest, I just said the methods it becomes the strongest are boring.

So who actually opposes the Antediluvians?

>>51461818

>preferences

Third-degree Adepts are apparently more common than Masters. There is no preference in that.

>>51461818
>>51462056
Dave mentioned that Gnosis 4-5 mages make up around 60% of Awakened society. That's a good bit.

>>51462027

That one handsome taxi driver who is totally not Cain.

>>51462096
Doesn't he have anything better to do than wank Mages even more?

>>51462027
The sabbat.

>>51462027
The Sabbat.

>>51462115
>>51462125
That's it?

>>51462096

That was in 1e where higher-level Gnosis mages were necessary to maintain the legacy system.

Those assumptions are no longer valid by design in 2e.

In any event. just because a mage has Gnosis 4-5, doesn't imply he has *three* Arcana at 4 or above.

What's the deal with Attainments?

>>51460899
No kill like overkill.

>>51462151
I don't know Jerry, you tell me

>>51462147
That doesn't actually invalidate anything. For all you know Dave still considers that to be a reasonable number.

>doesn't imply he has *three* Arcana at 4 or above.
Third-degree Adepts still more common than Masters. I don't really care for your theories.

>>51462151

Arcanum or Legacy attainments.

Arcanum attainments are just little benefits you receive based on your understanding of an Arcanum. They are also free.

Legacy attainment are paradox-free spell-like abilities gained by altering your soul. They also cost experience to learn.

>>51462151
In MtAw 2e?
Arcana Attainments are gained automatically when you get the respective level of each Arcana. They usually enhance Mage Sight, provide Armour, provide some special ability, or allow you to modify your spells.

Legacy Attainments are learned from your Legacy (or you make your own) when you have the requisite Gnosis, spending 1 Experience each. They're usually activated abilities built like spells, but with fixed reach and factors. However funkier Legacies (not yet officially written) may have other abilities, like the Crytologists who can enhance their High Speech.

>>51461421
Forces is actually the dominant Arcanum when it comes to being a technowizard, although Matter is also useful.

>>51462219
>technowizard
For software, yes.
Otherwise it's Matter, hands down.

>>51462138
The Nosferatu and the Children of Osiris are opposed to specific Antediluvians. Maybe the Inconnu do as well. Caine hates all of the little bastards.

>>51462195

I thought third degree Adepts were already common? The sourcebooks have a ton of them. Some of the Masters are people barely over the age of 25. I don't think the Anon you're arguing against has actually read the books.

>>51462195

Dave has actually stated on multiple occasions that the 1e Gnosis distribution is no longer valid. It was an intentional design decision in 2e, and reflected in the wider and earlier attainment distribution for legacies.

Also, what's evidence from the books or Dave's statements that third-degree adepts are more common than master?

I don't care about theories or your personal preferences. Although in your chronicle you can have Gnosis and Arcana distributions as you wish, I'm interested in official setting and rules, to the extent they exist.

>>51462257
>Caine hates all of the little bastards.
Lazy shit should get off his ass then.

>>51462267
Why should he? They are doing nice on their own.

>>51462138
Welcome to the World of Darkness!

>>51462259
Precisely this. People seem to think multi-Arcana Adepts are rare when they're not. The Silver Ladder and Banisher supplements had Masters in their early twenties.

>>51462236
Most machines run on electricity and software programs. Cars, cellphones, computers, cameras, televisions, and more all fall under the purview of Forces.

>>51462138
>>That's it?
Everyone else mostly pretends they don't exist despite being manipulated by their blood in a top down system.

>>51462236

Forces allows control of electrical and mechanical devices, and very fine control of anything electronic. Matter is far more limited to the mechanical.

If you intend to be a "technowizard," choosing Forces and Matter would be optimal,along with dollops of Mind and Space.

Could Forces be used to turn a flashlight into a lightsaber?

>>51462309
Darn, I was certain that Matter could command computers and so forth just as easily as Forces does.

My bad.

>>51462309
Don't forget Mind and Spirit to give your machines intelligence and bind their spirits.

>>51462297
>Masters in their early twenties

Dave said it can take anywhere from 1 - 10
years to become a multi degree Adept. Masters aren't far off.

Is there a common age to Awaken?

>>51462369
There is no common age. It is a lottery system.

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594KB, 200x150px

>>51462331
Forces 4, Patterning.
That being said, if you want it to be anything more than this, you'll need one crazy fucking battery.
I'd talk to a space or matter Mage for that.
Actually, preferably both.

That is, unless you have Forces 5 for a perpetual energy battery.

>>51462342
So let me pitch you a character with Arcana and you tell me a reasonable amount of time it would take him to get there.

>Moros
>Death 4
>Matter 4
>Space 4
>Prime 3
>Mind 2
>Time 1
>Gnosis 5

I'm not interested in arguing I'm just curious.

>>51462369
Eleven.

>>51462027
>So who actually opposes the Antediluvians?

Archmages, Celestines, Cain & God.

>>51462288
>>51462306
So their fuckery can't be stopped?

>>51462375
It most certainly isn't a lottery, it takes a person of specific mindset. In many ways, there are likely to be cluster points for people to Awaken for different paths.

Though I wouldn't be surprised to see a large cluster at the end of puberty and with young adults. With others at middle age, and nearing the end of one's life.

>>51462390
Or just make a magic lightsaber blade from your hand.

>>51462405
If Archmages opposed the Antediluvians in any way, the latter wouldn't exist.

>>51462369
Nope. It's totally random.

>>51462401
Not him, but I'd say likely 20+ years.

>>51462401

At least five years. Depends on the individual. The Banisher kid awoke at 16 and has Arcana at 4, 4, 5, 3, 3. He's 21 now.