This man rises from his throne and asks you to follow him into

>>51425338
Sure. Compared to the warp, hell is pretty tame

>>51425338
I ain't got nothin' to do this weekend, why not?

>>51425338
No thank you, Hell is scary and I'm comfy at home. Somebody more qualified can handle this.

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>>51425338
On the condition that I recieve some power armor, lightning claws/flaming sword, and a jump pack?

I got your back anywhere you wanna go, no exceptions.

>>51425372
>being a bitch ass nigga when Big E is relying on you
how low test can you be?

>>51425338
whats yer fofer

>>51425338
As long as he's messing people up and I don't have to do much, I don't care. Sure I'll walk with you. Just keep the demons away from me.

>>51425338
How much equipment does he give me?
I can easily be bought.

Ask him if he's sure he has the right person.

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>>51425338
Dunno. Da Boss saiz we'z goin' ta fight da 'umies, not da spikey gits.

>>51425558
Why not both?

>>51425338
No. All that godlike power and he manages to fuck up so utterly and completely. Failure of that magnitude I can only explain through incompetence. He'll just have to find another patzy to follow is dumbass towards guaranteed failure.

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>>51425338
Na.

Well, I was headed there anyway

>>51425597
This. In addition to bein incompetent he's also a total dick and a hypocrite. Sure, Chaos is worse, but who sait you must choose either of them?

>>51425417
Thing is, I'm very average person so I'm not much help to him. Also I'm pretty lazy and don't like Turks to boot.

>>51425662
>Big E
>t*rk
Heresy!

>>51425338
>Nah stay put on your fucking throne and complete the Human Webway project.

Oh and while at it could you please give out clear-cut instructions on how to produce new Primarchs?

>>51425885
The emperor was canonically born in Anatolia. Look at his picture, do you really think it's of a white person?

>>51426017
8k years b.c. There were no t*rks back then.

>>51425475
>the most accurate one here

>>51426063
Yes there were but they we'rent called that back then.

>>51426017
>white skin
>has the chin of ten men
>conquered most of the galaxy before the imperium fell apart under its own weight

Yes, I do think he's white.

>>51425338
Will he save my soul from demons when I die for him? Same answer, No.

>>51425338
Fuck off, we gonna lose anyway.

>>51426157
And they were not in Anatolia

>>51425338
No disrespect, my Emperor, but I feel like I'm woefully underqualified for that sort of thing.

>>51426679
Same.
I mean, I could become a member of the guard or a scribe but even then, I'm not sure a scrawny white boy would be the best solider.

>>51425338
Maybe if he promises to be less of a huge idiot in the future.

>>51425597
>>51425656
>>51426925

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Heresy_from_the_Emprah%E2%80%99s_point_of_view

>>51426157
Using this logic you could call Constantine the Great t*rk

>>51427021
He's still a retard and a hypocrite. His plan was nonsensical at the most fundamental level. He should have known that ignorance wasn't a shield against Chaos, and have had the wisdom and circumspection to make allies and incorporate advanced civilizations into the Imperium rather than destroying them. For a being that has been alive since long before the birth of Christ, the Emperor is extremely myopic and rash. He's like 30,000 years old and he still can't come to terms with the fact that neither he nor mankind is particularly special. He's fundamentally the same as a conspiracy theorist that needs to feel like they're the main character in a heroic narrative, or an unfulfilled Muslim who decides to throw their lot in with ISIS because it makes them feel special, or a white nationalist up that needs that same feeling of validation and destiny to the point where they're willing to demonise others to get it.

Which is intentional, of course, because the Emperor and the Imperium are all about mankind's flawed nature.

>>51425338
Well I didnt vote for him

>>51425338
Let me just get my shitting pants first.

>>51425415
>wants equipment
Olianus Pius is looking at you disapprovingly.

>>51426482
He's right, tho. Most of the people just started to call themselves turks once they took over. Just as they did call themselves romans before.
It's not as if conquerers exterminate populations and then summon millions of their own magically...

>>51427204

... okay I'll concede that.

>>51427204
He's around 48k years old in 40k.

And mankind is somewhat special in that they managed a comeback after chaos fucked them over once.

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>>51427569
Ollanius Pius didn't know shit about bargaining.

>>51427626
But that's kind of like saying ants are better than beetles (if you're referencing Eldar).

There are just... swarms of people in comparison to any other race, almost ever. The Eldar swarmed, too, but their birthrate declined heavily and when Slaanesh happened they physically couldn't recover their numbers.

>>51427204
Actually the Emperor in the Battle of the Webway addresses these claims and says he told people all the time that the warp is evil and that daemons are like otherworldly creatures but he just didn't call them gods because it would be redundant.

He's also allied with plenty of advanced societies, hence how the forgeworlds/knight world Dark Age colonies/own terran scientists came into being. Its not his fault some advanced but prideful human societies decide to resist.

>>51425338
I'd be honored to, FOR TERRA!!!

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>>51425338
>Psychic
>Mutant
>Thinks he's too shiny for good ol regular reincarnation
>Not a good family man
He isn't pure, he isn't vigilant, and I bet he doesn't even behave.

0/10 of true faitful of humanity would follow

>>51425338
Sorry, but no chance. Best of luck doing whatever you want to do there.
Would you like to use my golden throne before you go, though? It's a long way down.

Yes.

No questions, no hesitation.

>>51427670
IIRC the Emperor restricted all knowledge of Chaos. None of the Primarchs had any clue what they were dealing with when it came to daemons and the like, so either the Master of Mankind is a huge continuity hiccup or he is lying there.

Also, Emps basically destroyed any civilization that refused to adjust their shit to suit the Mechanicus' retarded belief system. Or any civilization that wasn't human. Both of which are stupid things to do.

>>51427806
Maybe the Emperor only restricted knowledge of Chaos after he became the Emperor? Like, telling people of Chaos always ended up dicking them over so he played it "safe" by keeping Chaos a secret?

As for destroying civilizations... if they don't ally with the Mechanicus, they'll either a) create deadly and dangerous AI or b) come to blows with the very devout Mechanicus, who basically run the universe tech-wise. Emps didn't want to piss off the toaster-fuckers because he needed them, whats a minor civilization here or there compared to that?

Xenophobia... well, he probably wanted as little margin for error as possible in his "plan". Sentient aliens could throw huge wrenches in there at any point simply because of their unpredictability.

>>51427204
>he still can't come to terms with the fact that neither he nor mankind is particularly special
He's one of the most powerful beings in the entire universe, alongside chaos gods. And he's also human and grew alongside it. And he values humanity, because he sees himself in it.

>>51428109
>values humanity because he sees himself in it

I just realized how fucking self-absorbed this prick is. That's worse than the damn Eldar!

>>51425338

No. GOD no.

This is a man who has lived for tens of thousands of years and managed to learn fucking nothing in that time.

Sure, he has dabbled in genetics and other sciences. But he has no idea how to run a government beyond iron-fisted authoritarianism, doesn't understand how to motivate, drive, or guide people, and honestly doesn't seem all that competent a military commander either.

The Emperor doesn't display a head for tactics, just brute force. His idea of a master plan to to invent bigger, better brutes who can brute force more effectively.

He is a violent, bumbling manchild who fights enemies that thrive in secrecy WITH SECRECY and wastes every opportunity or talent he has ever had. He is so convinced of his own superiority that he lets his failures creep up on him in plain view until they destroy him.

I wouldn't follow him in a game of dodgeball, much less a real fight of any kind.

>>51428202

-- and that burn just put him back down on the Throne.
Shit, that fucked him up worse than Horus.

>>51428142
Literally /ourguy/

>>51427906
>Maybe the Emperor only restricted knowledge of Chaos after he became the Emperor?

Doesn't matter when or why he did it. It was still a demonstrably poor idea.

>Emps didn't want to piss off the toaster-fuckers because he needed them, whats a minor civilization here or there compared to that?

The Emperor should have understood that tying your science up with a regressive cult is a bad idea in the long run. It's also pretty much the stupidest shit ever to snub and destroy advancing societies to satisfy said cult. A small group of actual scientists without retarded Mechanicus doctrine are worth more than the entire AdMech.

Also, those minor civilizations are billions of people. Emps is a poor saviour of mankind if he's willing to just annihilate them.

>Xenophobia... well, he probably wanted as little margin for error as possible in his "plan".

We already know why he wanted to exterminate aliens. He thought mankind was perfect, hence the comparison to loony conspiracy theorists that need a narrative where they're special to cope with the fact that they're not special. In practice the Imperium's policy on xenos is a waste of resources.

I don't understand why people cannot accept the underlying theme of 40K and feel the need to insist that the Emperor was an infallible good guy. The point of the Emperor is that he epitomised everything good and bad in mankind, and the point of 40K is that the darker angels of our nature - paranoia, fear of the other, greed, hubris - have more sway over us than our better aspects. 40K is about what happens when humans give in to their worst instincts and cripple themselves as a result.

>>51427906

The emperor was convinced that people couldn't worship Chaos if they didn't know it existed, which completely ignores the fact that Chaos is an active party that can seek people out instead of waiting to be summoned. So when Chaos sought to actively corrupt his primarchs, they were fish in a barrel because they had no idea what was happening or that there even was a risk until it was too late. He believed that the best solution to a complicated problem was total ignorance, and this lead directly to his death.

The Emperor fucked over the entire Imperium because he bent the knee to the AdMech. It was expedient to do so, but expediency shouldn't have mattered. He is immortal. It doesn't MATTER if it takes 200 years to take Mars. If he can't take the planet next door, how does he expect to take the galaxy?
Hell, he couldn't even promise to follow their rules and then slowly co-opt them. Which is fucking embarrassing, because he had 10,000 years to wrest control of them AND host of psychic powers, but he just left the AdMech alone, costing him countless worlds and beneficial technological development because he made a promise one time to save himself some trouble and never thought about the long term consequences. This doomed the Imperium before it began, because the tech stagnation caused the Admech to split (costing humanity very dearly during the heresy) and has prevented the Imperium from developing the tools it needs to make threats like Chaos and Orks completely irrelevant.

The Xenophobia is just Emps being incredibly butthurt that the rest of the alien races in the galaxy didn't politely respect the obsolete borders of a massive civilization that no longer existed.

>>51428109
Power =/= meaning.

The Emperor is just another guy who couldn't handle the idea that there's no destiny or purpose set aside for us, and decided to soothe this with a genocidal hubris that eventually doomed him and humanity along with him.

Yeah, you're right. He thinks mankind is special and perfect because he thinks he is special and perfect, and humans are the things he identifies with. What you are describing is something we call egomania.

>>51427569
Hey, he had a laser gun at least. We don't even have a flashlight

>>51428309
>The Xenophobia is just Emps being incredibly butthurt that the rest of the alien races in the galaxy didn't politely respect the obsolete borders of a massive civilization that no longer existed.

The funny thing is, many of them did. The Great Crusade encountered loads of cases where humans coexisted with aliens. The Emperor had them purged because allowing them to live would prove him wrong, and he was too much of an insane narcissist to let that stand.

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Of course I follow him! I mean come on! A giant, perfect in every way, golden duded, who's mere presence is powerful enough to have me weep with bliss, ask me to follow him? I'd gladly do it, especially in our times, the guy offers you to work for the good of Mankind, not just your own personal advancement.

>>51428202
>he has no idea how to run a government beyond iron-fisted authoritarianism
But that's the most effective form of government in a critical situation such as being surrounded by bloodthirsty xenos and demonic abominations.
>doesn't understand how to motivate, drive, or guide people
Most of the Imperium were literally willing to die for him
>honestly doesn't seem all that competent a military commander either.
He was a scientist not a soldier and even then, he was pretty fucking competent.
>doesn't display a head for tactics, just brute force
When you can wipe armies with your mind, a good show of successful brute force does more for the moral than being tacticool about it, especially when a man clad in gold armor shining with golden light leads the charge.
>His idea of a master plan to to invent bigger, better brutes who can brute force more effectively.
The plan was a huge success
>He is a violent, bumbling manchild who fights enemies that thrive in secrecy WITH SECRECY
It would've worked if not for some primarchs, who were the actual manchildren because of their unfortuante upbringings. Reminder that Horus was raised by the Emperor and came out the best primarch, without autism or being a manchild. The only reason Heresy happened was because of Lorgar's shitty parents and his complete inability to listen to the eldest, wisest and most powerful fucking human being in the galaxy, multiple times.
>He is so convinced of his own superiority
He's convinced in humanity's ability to not be retarded for a short (relatively) amount of time. Yes, he was wrong, because he's still a human.

>>51428365
No that anon, but the thing is, Empy is objectively right. He doesn't even for it for personnal glory. He took power to mead us because he is legitimately, objectively, the most qualified dude to lead us, and the only guy that is ast the same time aware of the threat that is above Mankind (becoming a psychic race enslaved to chaos) and that has a solution for it.

It's not even up for debate. Yes he will stop at nothing to do this, yes destroying worlds and genociding planets and entire species is something he calls collateral damage, but in this case? The end most definitely justify the means.

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>>51428432
Plus, Empy is super motivating when you look at him like pic related.

>>51428365
>le no destiny and purpose meme
We create those things

>>51428479
Your argument relies on vindication by success, but he failed. By his own actions he demonstrated that he was not qualified to lead because he constantly made mistakes that even a decently intelligent mortal human would be able to avoid, never mind a 48k year old psychic superman.

>>51428463
> But that's the most effective form of government in a critical situation such as being surrounded by bloodthirsty xenos and demonic abominations.
Iron-fisted authoritarian regimes are not anywhere near as effective as people seem to think. They consistently waste vast amounts of resources on internal power struggles and corruption.

>>51428536
>but he failed.
But he didn't? Yeah, it's not pretty and humanity is about to get fucked again, but they are still alive and were alive for 10k years after Emps got wounded.
>he demonstrated that he was not qualified to lead because he constantly made mistakes that even a decently intelligent mortal human would be able to avoid
He did the best he could, which is far beyond anyone else. Most human civilisations weren't even trying to reunite with each other. They would've been destroyed sooner or later by xenos.

>>51428296
>and feel the need to insist that the Emperor was an infallible good guy

Oh no no no, I fucking hate the Emperor. I was playing devil's advocate, I never said the guy was smart. He's a dickhead in just about every depiction, and a horrible father on top of everything you pointed out. I've always thought Malcador should just have straight up usurped him, told him to sit the fuck down and let somebody else take the reins.

>>51428309
I'm pretty sure he literally did not have the tech or army CAPABLE of taking Mars. That's why he bent the knee, not because he just thought it was easier. And he really, really needed them whole anyways - just look at tech in the 41st millenium compared to the 31st. It's literally gone BACKWARDS, none of the races have made decent improvements anywhere in 10,000 years. The Emperor needed the tech-priests of Mars because they were the only left in the galaxy who could continue improving humanity science-wise.
Then the cult part of the Mechanicus went fucking crazy and they're barely holding on to the tech level they still have, but that's beside the point.

>>51428585
>internal power struggles and corruption
>one guy in charge of everything

>>51428536
>He failed

He didn't though. The others failed him. You can't blame him for not predicting every single possible issue that could come along the way and that his generams would bhave like autist children (accroding to BL anyway) and betray him.

For all its flaws, Master of Mankind adresses exactly that. The Emperor shows a vision of a cliff to one of his most trusted Custodes, and the top of it is in clouds.
He says "The top is the goal, now climb."

Custode starts climbing, after a few meters, a rock that seemed solid doesn't hold up and he falls back down.

Each rock, each crevice to use to climb is a possibility that may or may not work. He knows his goal, and he knows how to get to it, but he can't predict accurately every step along the way.

>>51428599
> but they are still alive and were alive for 10k years after Emps got wounded.

Numerous human civilizations had survived Old Night without the Emperor. The Emperor made things significantly worse by creating a massive, horrifically oppressive regime that wastes time, lives, worlds, and resources on a level beyond any society seen in history. Thanks to the Emperor, humanity is united in a huge, stagnating corpse.

>>51426063
>>51427569
They were no turks here, but people there were persians who basically were pre-islamic arabs.
People here were conquered by turks and so were part of their empire and they adopted their culture with time.
Turks nowadays are descendants of the two, with varying degree of each.

>>51428637
> internal power struggles and corruption
> one guy in charge of everything
Take a look at how dictatorships actually work. Sure, you have a single, powerful dictator at the top. But no man rules alone, the dictator can't and doesn't do everything himself. He has subordinates who are constantly jockeying for power, sabotaging each other, and making a mess of things in an attempt to earn the favor of the guy on top and hinder their rivals. Look at the internal conflicts that plagued the Nazis. Hitler was at the top the whole time, but go down a level or two and you see a teeming mass of territorial squabbling as various underlings tried to establish and protect their own power bases within the Nazi hierarchy.

The image of a dictatorship as a unified whole is an illusion.

>>51428692
>nids
>necron awakening
>expanding eye
>orks
Yeah, all those separated colonies and confederacies would totally survive that.
No.

>>51428744
>but go down a level or two and you see a teeming mass of territorial squabbling as various underlings tried to establish and protect their own power bases within the Nazi hierarchy.
This is also due to the sycophantic, horribly inefficient way Hitler ran the National Socialist government, playing favorites and purposefully playing department heads against each other to determine his favorite and keep them vying for status. They acted that way because those who were best at that behavior are the ones who survived and gained prominence.

>>51428692
Humanity is united in a huge stagnating corpse because of Chaos.
If not for the Emperor, Humanity would have been persecuted by Xenos, slaves to Chaos, or outright destroyed as a species.

>>51428681
> The others failed him.

Yes, it's always someone else's fault.

Funny how people are trying to say that the Imperium was a good idea because it concentrated power in the hands of one person and all you needed was for that one person to be capable, but when it all comes crashing down they blame everyone but the person at the top.

>>51428761
Those separate nations at least had the ability to advance technologically. In the intervening 10k years, they could have developed much further than the Imperium did.

Fighting an enemy like the Tyranids or the Orks with numbers is foolish. Those species have an inbuilt biological advantage in a war of attrition. You're not going to beat them with quantity, you need quality. You need technological superiority, which the Imperium does not have and can never attain.

>>51428805
This.
Emperor should've listened to the psyker message about Horus.
Emperor should've seen Horus coming.
Emperor shouldn't have gotten fucked up fighting Horus.
Emperor should have LEFT BETTER FUCKING INSTRUCTIONS

>>51428805
You can't be that stupid.

Do you blame Obama for reforms he couldn't pass because Republicans blocked him?

As I said above, he was genuinely, objectively right. And when the fate of the whole damn race is at hand, the end justify the means. Might not have been pleasant, but between that and having your souls used as eternal cocksleeves for Chaos, the choice is pretty easy, especially when The Emperor doesn't even take power to have power, he does it because it is needed. He could have taken power looooong nefore he did, but didn't because he believed Mankind needed to evolve on it's own. He inly stepped in when there was no other choice, other than slow annihilation.

>>51428843
>In the intervening 10k years, they could have developed much further than the Imperium did
Aaaaaaaand Iron Men again.

>>51428854
You forgot
>Emperor should've listened to Eldrad's warning

>>51428843
You do realise that the factions destroyed by Mankind were those that couldn't be saved or rejected the Imperium right?

When your level of technology is too Chaptic or Xenos reliant, at some point it WILL fuck you up, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. And if the Imperium could easily crush them, they wouldn't survive for shit in front of Nids, Necrons, or even orks.

>>51428780
It's not specific to Hitler, it exists in pretty much all dictatorships. That's because dictators tend to run their governments in sycophantic and horribly inefficient ways. Playing favorites and pitting department heads against each other? That's standard practice in dictatorships.

Incidentally, it is also explicitly what the Emperor did when creating the Imperium. He purposefully created and fostered the rivalries among the Primarchs because he believed that it would somehow make the Imperium better. Turns out it helped tear the Imperium apart. The Emperor was totally unqualified to govern humanity because he had failed to learn anything from seeing humanity's previous failures. A decently intelligent mortal human could have seen that he was making a mistake. But he wasn't even as smart as that.

>>51428888
The Necrontyr and Eldar ruled galaxy for millions of years using automated servants. They did not rebel. They continued to serve until both Empires destroyed themselves via war or god spawning.

So why are the only the human AI is prone to forming Ironmen?

>>51425338
Fuck yeah!!!

>>51428936
>So why are the only the human AI is prone to forming Ironmen?

>>51428861
Obama isn't the fucking God Emperor of Man. The United States isn't a dictatorship, the Imperium is. You can blame people other than Obama because Obama wasn't some all-powerful tyrant. There was also a Congress and a Supreme Court that were not subordinate to him, and they could also screw up.

The Imperium had no such system. All power rested with the Emperor, and thus all responsibility rests with the Emperor.

>>51425558
But wot duz da boss say 'bout da spikey 'umie gitz?

>>51428955
My head was spinning when I wrote that but you understand what I am saying.

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>>51425338
>Do you follow him?

Only if i can be a marine.

>>51428936
A better question is how come the Tau haven't had an issue with AI with the amount of advanced drones and machines they use?

>>51428957
All power rested with him, but you're not going to blame the guy who fucked him over? Just going to blame the victim?

That's some Chaos-dick sucking if I ever saw some.

>>51428888
>Emperor should've listened to Eldrad's warning
I'd rather listen to a fucking ork than Eldrad. Fucking Eldrad.

>>51428854
>the whole magnus situation
somewhat yes, but Magnus was a fucking retard about it, should've known better and was completely responsible for Emps not listening to him.
>Emperor should've seen Horus coming.
Too many "if"s in his betrayal thing, so much in fact, that it become a whole other topic
>Emperor shouldn't have gotten fucked up fighting Horus.
Funny thing is, he was the most human in that very moment.
>Emperor should have LEFT BETTER FUCKING INSTRUCTIONS
He did his best while trying not to loose his consciousness

>>51429018
Because they are still FAR from the level of technological advancement Humanity was before the DAoT. Shit was scary back then.

>>51428936
Pretty sure the Eldar don't have robots of any kind. Why would they ever risk Eldar lives (which they hold very, very highly) in war if they had some type of robot tech?

Necrontyr... I don't think it ever goes into detail about what type of servants they actually had, does it? I mean, it could be anything from cars to full-on robots, we don't know. I doubt it was super advanced, because they didn't even have space-faring technology before becoming Necrons.

>>51427204
>>51427806
>>51427670
We find out in Horus Rising that the Emperor did tell at least the Primarchs among others about Chaos. He just said that it was the warp, and that life forms from there could infest people outside the Empyrean, and that they were aliens by another name.

Horus obviously went on to tell at least Loken about it, as well as a couple of those Remembrancers, so that level of knowledge wasn't forbidden, and the Primarchs weren't forbidden from telling others if they felt it necessary. Seems he might have actually trusted their judgement on it.

Alpha Legion also knew about "Chaos", as did multiple other legions (and let's not even get into Magnus). Honestly, Loken seems to be the exception in that he hadn't heard the "yeah, there's things living in the warp, but they're just aliens by another name" excuse.

>>51428898
> When your level of technology is too Chaptic or Xenos reliant, at some point it WILL fuck you up, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when
And some how the Imperium isn't a massive fuck up? It is a long, drawn out death. It is the thousand year terror that Mark Twain spoke of. It is a failure, and the fact that /tg/ is eager to call it a success is laughable. It is an amalgamation of some of the worst dystopias that fiction has invented. It is that by design, its ridiculous level of oppression was an intentional choice by the authors. Treating it as some kind of success ignores the fact that it is specifically written as being hilariously awful.

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Here is Laurie Goulding (former chief editor of the HH series and FW's HH books) underlining and explaining the Emperor's plan.

>>51428692
>The Emperor made things significantly worse by creating a massive, horrifically oppressive regime that wastes time, lives, worlds, and resources on a level beyond any society seen in history.

Wasn't his plan just to reunite humanity, clear out the xenos siders because he didn't want them coming with him, and then leading all humanity into the Webway where it could, beyond the reach of Chaos, finish evolving into a psychic race?

>>51429029
Magnusfag here, how is it his fault? Didn't Tzeentch trick him into overpowering and blowing up the Webway?

>>Emperor should have LEFT BETTER FUCKING INSTRUCTIONS
>He did his best while trying not to loose his consciousness
So much this. He was literally dying!

>>51429029
>I'd rather listen to a fucking ork than Eldrad. Fucking Eldrad.
>the great Farseer who didn't notice a mighty and powerful daemonsword of Slaanesh when it was sitting right in front of him
Fuck that guy.

>>51429120
Its HIS opinion in the Emperors plan NOT the Emperors plan. Sure its an interesting read but still ultimately bullshit.

>>51429022
If the Emperor wants to hoard all the power for himself and build an entire nation to conform to his will alone, then its failure is on his shoulders. That's the price of power. The Imperium belongs to him, so its failure does as well. He was the one who decided how the Imperium should deal with Chaos (namely hiding its head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist). That "strategy" led to the Imperium's failure. So yes, it's the Emperor's fault.

He was a god, or at least had godlike powers. He was a rival to the Big 4, some even say he was as powerful as all 4 put together. He had control of an army and demigods at his service. He fucking failed. No two ways about this, he Failed, and he was far, far too powerful for any excuse besides incompetence and inadequacy to have been the reason.

>>51429081
>Pretty sure the Eldar don't have robots of any kind.

Both codex fluff and novels confirm that the Eldar let their empire be managed by automated drones as they partied all day long.

The Necrontyr relied on Cenoptek bots as a labour force and big computers managed them.

>>51429170
Not really. Plenty of it comes from the HH series.

>>51429139
Not really. He wanted to conquer the galaxy, exterminate anything that wasn't baseline humanity, and rule over the Imperium. That was pretty much it. He wanted a galaxy where it was just a ton of normal, non-psychic humans on the bottom, him on top, and absolutely nothing in between. The webway project was about eliminating the need to use the warp for travel/communication, thus eliminating the need for navigators and astropaths.

>>51429248
>exterminate anything that wasn't baseline humanity
LACK OF SOURCE INSTENSIFIES

>>51429029
>I'd rather listen to a fucking ork than Eldrad. Fucking Eldrad.

He was right though.

It doesn't matter what you think of his predictions. He was objectively correct.

>>51429277
The only person who was objectively right was the Emperor. Eldrad was just spewing crap that served his agenda.

>>51429029
>He did his best while trying not to loose his consciousness
Bullshit. Why would a being of deep wisdom and intelligence not think "Oh, I've got to go fight this huge battle I never expected in order to save what I've built- I should probably leave some kind of document behind, considering that I've told almost no one about what's going on Chaos-wise, just in case this Chaos-related thing overwhelms me and humanity still needs my guidance. Or, even, I could just implant a clone of myself in this neat little Primarch pod I've got laying around, and in case I die I'll be reborn and Humanity won't lose it's way!"

>>51429248
Master of Mankind says otherwise on that, he literally says because mankind is turning into a much more psychically powerful race than the Eldar, their awakening will be Slaanesh all over again on a galaxy wide scale, so he wants to get all humanity into the webway where they'll be safe.

Humans who don't get on board with it, well, if he just left them, they'd still be outside the webway when the alarm goes off, and that'll fuck his plan sideways. So cleanse purge kill it is.

>>51429304
...Except the Emperor was wrong about his son being loyal. No two ways about it, he was 100% wrong.

As usual.

>>51429318
It says also that the Emperor wanted to cut off humanity from the Warp, severing their connection to it after they evolve so they would avoid the fate of the Eldar.

>>51429151
>how is it his fault?
>the guy who lived fo 48k years
>the guy who guided humanking throughout it's history
>the guy who united humankind under a single banner
>the guy who saved humankind from the brink of extinction
>the guy who has created the largest force in the galaxy atm
>the guy who has created legions of superhumans
>the guys who is the most powerful psyker in the galaxy
>the guy who is your father

>he tells you to do nothing and trust him
>you do what you think is best anyway
>you listen to a fucking warp creature your father told you not to listen to
He could've just went to Terra himself, and it still would've been a better fucking option than what he did.

I understand why Magnus did what he did, but he's still a fucking retard and should've known better. Like the level of his fail is so high he could almost sniff Hillary's presidential campaign.

>>51429162
>fuck that guy
Fuck that guy in particular

>>51429326
That's Horus's fault, not the Emperor's. The Emperor isn't to blame for the fact that everyone around him was a colossal manchild. His plan would have worked perfectly if the Primarchs had been anywhere near as patient as the Emperor, but instead the moment he was looking away they started a massive clusterfuck.

>>51429354
Also the guy who said that the very thing you're good at is an abomination and is banned under penalty of death. No reason given, he just says no and if you defy him you die.

>>51429354
Daily reminder that Olly Pius who is the most decent guy you will ever meet, hated the Emperor's guts and was only willing to help because the Emperor is better than ''Them''.

Under normal circumstance, Pius would not waste time or effort for that ''Thing'' they call Emperor.

>>51429193
Must be a big flaw with human AI, I guess. Begs the question, if Big E is so smart, why did he sanction inhumane servitors instead of creating AI that wouldn't be murdery?

>>51429354
>>He could've just went to Terra himself
>Dont use the warp Magnus!
>Just use the warp in this other way!
Ask Mort how that worked out will you?

>>51429434
...to forge a lasting alliance with Mars who hated AI?

>>51429394
Because he know better. It's the motherfucking Emperor. He's not asking you to die in a ditch, he orders you to just sit on your ass and do nothing. How fucking hard could it fucking be? Maybe he has a good fucking reason to make this claim AT THIS MOMENT? Maybe something has changed?

>>51429394
Don't forget the whole "Oh, but Russ and his wolves are totally allowed to still do all that stuff because it's runes and bone fetishes and shit, which is totally not witchcraft like the stuff that you are doing."

>>51429420
>nuPius
At this point he should've remained a fucking custodian

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>>51429318
>Master of Mankind
Here's MoM and the webway project summarized for you.

>>51429457
If you think just saying "Because I know better" is a good way to lead, then you're as bad a leader as the Emperor. This is exactly what people have been saying, the Emperor learned nothing from tens of thousands of years of human history, and that willful ignorance led to his and humanity's downfall.

>>51429439
Mort got set up by Typhus. Magnus could've just brute forced his way through the warp. He was second only to Emps himself.
>Dont use the warp Magnus!
war travel=/=sorcery and wapr travel was still allowed

>>51429507
> If you think just saying "Because I know better" is a good way to lead, then you're as bad a leader as the Emperor.
> This is what magnusfags actually believe

HE DOES KNOW BETTER YOU FUCKWIT.

>>51429457
>Maybe something has changed?

Maybe he should have explained. It doesn't matter who or how powerful you are, people don't like being told to do things "just because". Anyone with even the slightest degree of experience interacting with other human beings should understand this.

>>51429354
I think all the primarchs are autistic, and Magnus in particular is an egomaniac. Still love him though. I get what you're saying, but Magnus probably thought even his father wasn't perfect all the time. Despite everything you say, he still had issues and Magnus knew it. The idea of accepting his father as infallible and letting something like this happen with no comment was worse than trying to win him, especially when Magnus had no idea about the Webway.

Considering absolutely everything we as readers know about the situation, Magnus was horribly, horribly wrong. But considering everything Magnus himself knew, it was his only option.

>>51429549
lel

>>51425338
Sure. I've always wanted to see Cadia.

>>51425338

But what if we run into Doomguy?

>>51429549
And where the fuck did the God-Emperor 'knowing better' lead to? What the fuck did all that power and wisdom amount to? Fucking failure is what.

>>51429539
>war travel=/=sorcery and wapr travel was still allowed
Magnus wasnt allowed even to do that according to the Edict Anon. Thats how retarded it is after the retcon. Him even touching the warp at all was disallowed and punishable by death.

>>51429018

Because 40k does not, and never has, run on the logic that AI = instacorrupted. That's the AdMech line of propaganda, fed by a history where one specific set of machines went rogue.

The Iron Men went rogue because protecting and serving humanity was put at odds with human survival and expansion. Humans existing in the numbers they did during the DaoT, combined with their psychic awakening, would have destroyed the material universe. The only way to save humanity was to dramatically lower its population back down to a safe limit.

Necron AI doesn't have this problem. Tau AI won't either. It was a single, specific set of circumstances and its asinine to assume it would happen again to someone else by default.

>>51429591
Then it's rip and tear on a level that makes Khrone say "Damn, I need that guy on my side".

>>51429354
When did he demonstrate actual wisdom though? Or skill at governance?

The Emperor's main accomplishment was in genetics. As an actual leader of a nation he was just a bog standard human dictator. He said it himself, the difference between him and every other human dictator in history was simply "I know I'm right." Which is what all of them have said.

The Emperor was able to conquer the rest of humanity because of the space marines that he invented. While an impressive scientific accomplishment, that doesn't make one a good leader any more than being a good surgeon makes you a good leader. This is demonstrated by the fact that as soon as the space marine legions started turning against him, the Imperium came unglued. It had nothing else going for it. The Emperor's leadership wasn't anything special, it was just your standard dictatorship.

>>51429594
It saved humanity from the brink of extinction at the hands of xenos. Without the Emperor, there would be no humans. With the Emperor, humanity survived and dominated the galaxy for 10k years and will continue to do so for thousands more.

>>51429561
>Maybe he should have explained.
To whom? To fucking Magnus? He did fucking explain it. He fucking taught Magnus in the ways of the warp, Magnus literally learnt from Him. He, of all people, should've know better. The worlds wasn't revolving around Magnus and Magnus alone, and he should've fucking knew that. If the fucing Emperor considers something to be so important, that he can't even inform his children about it then you should just fucking listen to him and do what he says.

>>51429457
>How fucking hard could it be?

If I'm in a situation where I can do something good or helpful, I can't not do it. It's literally worse than actively do the opposite of that, because at least then I have a goal in mind. And that powerful effect is just as a mortal person - the primarchs have extremely hightened and exaggerated emotions (probably why they're so fucking autistic), so this would effect them EVEN MORE. For all we know, not acting on this situation could put one of them in physical pain.

>>51429563
Yeah, and that tentacled fuck playing mind games with him didn't help any.

>>51429591
We join forces. Doomguy of all people would understand.

>>51429648
>The Emperor's main accomplishment was in genetics.
> The Emperor was able to conquer the rest of humanity because of the space marines that he invented.

And Black Library took even that away from him. The Primarchs were only able to be made because of a deal that the Emperor made with the chaos gods, and the space marines have always been weaker versions based on the primarchs.

His one great accomplishment was, in fact, making an incredibly stupid deal with the devil, trying to back out on it because he thought he could outsmart the devil, and then managing to crib half a page of notes from the primarchs so he could stabilize his previous Thunder Warriors research into space marines.

>>51429698
He's essentially humanity's version of Kharn, but without the whole Nails thing.

>>51429724
I want to know what the deal actually was. I think Emps told the Chaos Gods he would give each one a Primarch to possess fully and become avatars and on Molech he tried to give them the 'leftover' ones and Chaos said "No, we get the pick of the litter'. The reason for the big E's whole "Gods don't exist, it's all lies" was to try and keep us from learning about it.

>>51429831
If anything the Emps coming down so hard on Magnus would have to do with him seeing Magnus making the same mistakes as he did.

>>51425923
Why would you want new primarchs?
The old ones had a 50% failure rate.

>>51429724
I still don't understand why BL writers go out of their way to rewrite Emperor into a maniac and lessen his achivements in every way possible. It just devalues the whole story, turning it into an circlejerk of autists and manchildren with daddy issues.

>>51428463
>Most of the Imperium were literally willing to die for him
That's just meatshields. For continued growth of the nation you need people who know how to live for themselves and their leader.

>He was a scientist not a soldier and even then, he was pretty fucking competent.
That's why scientists don't lead armies. They are great advisors but not the best people to put at the top.

>The plan was a huge success
It actually fucked up Imperium forces morale in the long run. He created a schism in the army between normal people and marines. After his death it only grew bigger. Basically instead of helping themselves people now hope for external help. Imperium of Man transformed into Imperium of Space Marines. And you can't build a real Empire on that. That's why it is stagnating.

>The only reason Heresy happened was because of Lorgar's shitty parents and his complete inability to listen to the eldest, wisest and most powerful fucking human being in the galaxy, multiple times.
Or maybe Emperor's inability to teach. Because after so long a time he forgot what it means to be ignorant.

>>51429906
> I still don't understand why BL writers go out of their way to rewrite Emperor into a maniac
They don't go out of their way to do that. They honestly think that they're writing a good and wise, if somewhat distant, ruler. In much the same way, most of the 40k fanbase that reads the stuff that BL prints thinks that the Emperor is just that, a good and wise ruler, and they believe that his BL portrayal is an example of good and wise leadership.

>>51429668
>He fucking taught Magnus in the ways of the warp, Magnus literally learnt from Him.

The webway project. All the Emperor had to do was take Magnus aside and tell him "I know this is difficult, but I'm working on a very sensitive project which will protect us from the malevolent entities of the Warp forever. It's entering a very sensitive stage and any additional psychic turmoil might screw it all up, so hold off with the Sorcery until I give you the all-clear."

Magus gets his ego pandered to because he's been let in on a secret none of the other Primarchs have, and he now knows enough not to disturb the Emperor which psychic shenanigans.

Then again it's not a bit surprise that so many people don't understand this. Antisocial autists and shut-ins can't deal with people, so they idolize the autistic, socially-retarded Emperor.

>>51429919
>That's just meatshields
Those meatshields stood and fought with him until the end, and made sure that Horus failed in his rebellion.
>They are great advisors but not the best people to put at the top.
He was still better than others.
>It actually fucked up Imperium forces morale in the long run.
It was combined arms until the end of Horus Heresy, the rest is on Robaut.
>Or maybe Emperor's inability to teach
He did taught him, Lorgar just wasn't willing to listen

>>51429919
> Or maybe Emperor's inability to teach. Because after so long a time he forgot what it means to be ignorant.
More likely he never learned to teach in the first place. After all, why would he? Up until the primarchs were created he could get anything he wanted by simply psychically commanding people to do his bidding. He never had to explain anything, never had to say why something needed to be done, and never had to convince anyone of anything. For tens of thousands of years he just got whatever he wanted with zero effort on his part, so when he was finally presented with an actual challenge in the form of dealing with the primarchs he completely botched it.

>>51429960
I always thought the Emperor appears to you as your ideal leader, as you think of it, which is why for Land he was emotionally dead, to the Primarchs he was each one's ideal father (which means Angron, Morty, Fulgrim, Cruze, Perty and Horus has some serious daddy issues) and it completely fucked Lorgar's shit up when Emps essentially showed him that he doesn't want love, only obedience.

>>51429987
>It's entering a very sensitive stage and any additional psychic turmoil might screw it all up, so hold off with the Sorcery until I give you the all-clear.
People also seem to forget that its canon that Magnus stayed in contact with he Emperor through the wrap after the Primarchs were scattered. Him going out and contacting the Emps was not a unique event. Breathing the wards on Terra was however, and thats the secret that Magnus couldnt(but should've) been told about.

>>51429906

40k has been taken over by chaosfags.

This is why Nurgle is personally resposnible for literally every disease that has ever existed throughout time (which means he is responsible for the evolution of any life at all), Tzeentch knows the thoughts of every living sentient mind in real time and no one can keep a secret from him, and Khorne draws power from natural disasters and exploding stars and and can (and has) destroyed galaxies before.

Which creates something of a problem, because these guys are still regularly BTFO by a dude in power armor with a grenade launcher.

Chaos lore is completely out of control these days. Making the Emperor look incompetent is just another way of wanking Chaos.

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I would follow him in a heartbeat.
This is a man, a mortal, who has gained, achieved and lost more within the span of a couple hundred years than all of humanity probably will ever gain, achieve or loose ever.

Sure, he wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but he did what he had to do.
He had to ensure that Humanity survives whatever darkness lies in the future, and despite the absurd amount of fuck ups by every party involved, Humanity is still up and kicking ten thousand years later, and only continues to do so because of him. Literally.
Within the setting, i would do absolutely anything he'd ask of me without a second thought.

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Yep. I'd probably die, but Big E wouldn't, and he might remember me as that one guy who went to hell with him. A man dies two deaths. One when his soul departs his body, and another when his name is spoken for the last time. I could love forever.

>>51430083
The Imperium has been an awful dystopia since rogue trader. It's neither new nor specifically chaos wanking.

>>51430083
>Which creates something of a problem, because these guys are still regularly BTFO by a dude in power armor with a grenade launcher.

The Gods aren't, their followers do.

The only thing that can defeat the Chaos Gods is a another god (Ynnead in 40K) or a noble person whose pure heart is filled with justice and compassion for his fellow man (Archaon/Kastner in AoS).

>>51429434
Because full working AI on humanities side will sooner or later raise questions about citizen rights. And that will lead to questions about possibility of some select aliens and citizen rights. And so on and so on.

Even if AI works there is a possibility of civil unrest or even war due to its existence. It is not within the general line that Emperor wanted.

>>51429113
But we're ot talking about the Imperium as it is.
We're talking about the Impreium as it could have been, had Empy not been fucked over by the Heresy.

No one's arguing that the 40k Imperium is great and lovely. We're saying that the 30k one was by fzr Humanity's best chance to rule the galaxy and survive, lead by a competent leader that cares about the preservation of the species as a whole.

>>51429906
Because he was always meant to be a maniac?

The Imperium is a dystopia and the Emperor is a tyrant. He and the Imperium represent mankind's squandered potential and insistence on falling prey to their own demons.

>>51430030
>Those meatshields stood and fought with him until the end, and made sure that Horus failed in his rebellion.
Horus failed. But he was not the mastermind behind the rebellion. Four actually succeeded. They didn't got their whole pie but took enough slices for a definitive win by the points at the end of the round.

>He was still better than others.
It doesn't matter. People will remember that it is he who was not good enough.

>It was combined arms until the end of Horus Heresy, the rest is on Robaut.
So he fucked up in teaching Robaut.

>He did taught him, Lorgar just wasn't willing to listen
Then he shouldn't have fucking installed him as a head of a legion. But Emperor's inability to understand people is notorious. He failed at the skill that most leaders deem a requirement for that position - ability to find worthy subordinates.

>>51430204
The Imperium under Emps was pretty bad.

It still functionally enslaved 99% of humanity in appealing conditions to fuel its constant genocidal wars, it still bred an ignorant and malcontent populace, it was still technologically regressive and ideologically stunted. The big difference between the modern Imperium and Emps' Imperium is the Ecclesiarchy.

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>>51429960
>In much the same way, most of the 40k fanbase that reads the stuff that BL prints thinks that the Emperor is just that, a good and wise ruler, and they believe that his BL portrayal is an example of good and wise leadership.

Not they don't. Don't tey to give yourself some high ground by saying you're better than the others. Pretty much everyone agrees that the rewriting of the HH is the worse shir BL has produced in years, and Empy's character has a lot to do for that.

The HH is just self righteous authors trying to shove their own atheist/christian/chaos boner and then change it completely.

Empy was great, near perfect as a dude who DID fuck up, by not seeing the betrayal coming towards him, but only if that remained his only flaw, to trust too much, making him a tragic figure, and chaos the bad guys, without any shades f grey, with it corrupting the sons, because that's how it works. Now we have a turbo autist atheist, autists sons with half assed reasons to rebel, acting like manchildren, and Chaos fanboys authors trying to push their idea that Chaos were the good guys.

>>51430362
>appealing

Appalling.

Why is autocorrect so fucking retarded? This is probably why the Iron Men shit happened, somehow.

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>>51430157
>Archaon
Say what?

>>51430373
>Empy was great, near perfect as a dude who DID fuck up, by not seeing the betrayal coming towards him, but only if that remained his only flaw, to trust too much, making him a tragic figure, and chaos the bad guys, without any shades f grey, with it corrupting the sons, because that's how it works.

This version of the Emperor has never existed in any 40K literature. It's purely a fan-created concept and it does against the core concept of 40K.

>>51430362
>Enslaved
Yes and no. It was more like>>51428432. When someone like Empy asks for your help, you bet your ass you help because you're right.

And it's a bit hard to swim in riches and good living conditions when you're in a galactic war against litteraly everyone else, trying to unify and reconnect the galaxy.
As soon as the great crusade ended, the living conditions of the populace would have improved tremendously, since no war and all.
Hell the fact that SM were scheduled for extermination, like the Thunder Warriors, when they duty was done, shows how much Empy was expecting Peace and Prosperity after uniting mankind.

>>51430324
>he was always meant to be a maniac?
No?
He was presented as a Bigger Than Life figure that cared for all of humanity and wished only good to humankind, sort of an ideal person. He was a contrast to what Imperium has become after his death.

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>>51430402
>Core concept of 40k?

Which is...?

The original HH fluff was way simpler. It was Horus got corrupted by chaos, he wants power, he wants to fuck shit up, and Empy didn't see anything coming because he trusted him too much.

None of this gray area bullshit where authors try to make Chaos the good guys and justify why you'd fuck up Humanity's chance of survival just because you didn't vote for the dude leading you.

>>51430157
>archaon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7fCQlUhj0

>>51430443
> the living conditions of the populace would have improved tremendously, since no war and all.
Except that dictatorships throughout history have shown that they're pretty terrible at providing a good standard of living for the people. The incentive structure in a dictatorship encourages the exact opposite. You get things like hoarding resources in order to keep your power base secure, diverting money to your cronies to keep them on your side, etc.

>>51430443
>Yes and no.

Yes and yes. Most people in Emps' Imperium lived in the same awful conditions as they do in the current Imperium. All of which could have been avoided if, instead of tolerating the Mechanicus, he actually took in advancements made by all the civilizations he demolished. Or, better yet, formed a federation rather than an Imperium, one that would require less of his effort to control personally and could achieve a common good without plunging the majority of mankind into exactly the kind of abject horror and ignorance that Chaos thrives in.

>>51430525
Absolutely no one is trying to make Chaos the good guys or justified. They are going with the core concept that mankind, the Emperor included, is flawed and prone to creating awful systems out of greed, or hubris, or simple xenophobia. Remember that all this shit was basically inspired by Judge Dredd and hate for Thatcherism.

I don't know why you even want the Emperor to be perfectly right. There isn't a single compelling mythological figure that was perfect, because that never makes for a good story. Gilgamesh was tragic in many ways but he was also a dick who created his own problems. The Emperor is much the same.

I miss Pre-Heresy books Big E.

>>51430917
He was the same guy. We just saw less of his internal monologue then.

>>51430804
The First Heretic is all about how the WB are bringing the "truth" and how the Emperor is such an evil bastard for daring to hide Chaos from the general population.

I'm not arguing that He was perfect, on the contrary. When I said he was perfect wayyyy above, I meant perfect as "well written" and in thay case, he was perfectly written in my eyes as a tragic figure, with his flaws, namely being unable to connect with basic human emotions, while trying to lead humanity, and being too absorbed in the grand scheme of things he forgot the details that mattered, like his sons.

>>51430940
Naaaah, he was less of an autist.

>>51430804
>Absolutely no one is trying to make Chaos the good guys or justified
>almost every book about the traitor Primarches tries to absolve them of responsibility and places the entirety of the blame on the Emperor
>nearly every book written about the HH paints the Emperor in a purely negative light with NO redeeming values, on top of retconning even smaller humanizing moments like his love of Horus
>I don't know why you even want the Emperor to be perfectly right
I'm not the same guy, but it's not about the Emperor being perfectly right, it's about the current authors doing everything they can to make the Emperor wrong about literally everything they possibly can.
The only thing they haven't gone on about the Emperor being absolutely wrong about is creating the Primarches/space marines in the first place, probably because casting down the Primarches as a project doomed to fail from the word go would be too offensive to the writers who have spent years trying to make the traitors look better than what they are.

>>51430940
I don't believe that anymore than I believe Abaddon had a super sekrit plan about destroying Cadia's pylons over the crusades.

>>51430943
>The First Heretic is all about how the WB are bringing the "truth" and how the Emperor is such an evil bastard for daring to hide Chaos from the general population.

...Because it's written from the deranged perspective of the guy the book title drops.

>I'm not the same guy, but it's not about the Emperor being perfectly right, it's about the current authors doing everything they can to make the Emperor wrong about literally everything they possibly can.

Have you considered that he was always meant to be wrong, and you've simply misinterpreted the character? Kinda the point of him is that despite his incredible power and knowledge, he makes a lot of mistakes, because he's subject to the same failings as mankind - and his worst failing of all is that he doesn't see that.

He definitely had some good ideas, like cleaning up the Webway, but his entire methodology was flawed, not because he was stupid or uninformed, but because he was prideful and paranoid, like many dictators have been.

>>51431453
> because he was prideful and paranoid, like many dictators have been.
Only he wasn't prideful, paranoid, or a dictator until the chaosfags got their hands on him.

>>51425338

Do you mean I can die at the Emperor's hands in Khorne's name!?! I could ask for no higher honor!

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>>51425656

>>51431453
>>51431595
Indeed, the old fluff had him still dumbstruck that Horus was rebelling, while the Eternity Gate was getting pounded, he still couldn't believe it.

And if you read >>51430525 you'll see that he loved Horus dearly, and held back during the fight, getting his ass handed to him in the process.

>>51431595 Not him but
>he wasn't the way you're describing until he was the way you're describing
>because earlier lore is always true
>it just happened earlier

>>51431595
He was always a dictator, even as far back as Rogue Trader. He is the Emperor of the Imperium of Man.

>>51431724
Earlier lore was better written since they weren't trying to push a bullshit "chaos are the good guys, Emperor/Imperium bad" agenda. When the chaosfags took over it all went to shit. Aside from a few gems here and there like Gaunt's Ghosts, BL is garbage.

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>>51425338
Yer not mah king, THIS is mah king

>>51431714
>Indeed, the old fluff had him still dumbstruck that Horus was rebelling, while the Eternity Gate was getting pounded, he still couldn't believe it.
He couldn't belive not because he was prideful, but because he loved Horus with all heart as his favorite son. He got wounded because he didn't want kill him, because of his love for him. Pius had to die in front of him, to prove to Emps that Horus was beyond help.

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>>51431810
Someone talked about a gem from BL?

>>51431843
>even a bigger collection of autists as her inner circle
>with THE Autist to out-autism all autists in the face of Lancelot
>literally a cuck
>got her kingdom fucked over by saxons
>responsible for the Eternal Anglo

>>51431724
When traitor legion fans started writing the lore, that is when the Emperor became objectively wrong in everything ever, anon.
That is a recent affair.
>>51431810
>>51431865
This.
>>51431843
Is this her titty Lancer version?

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>>51425338
My Body Is Ready!

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http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/212959-the-first-heretic/page-9#entry2566916
>> Btw. in collected visions it is made clear that Lorgar had been ruthless in enforcing the imperial doctrine on the worlds he conquered, which was also something the Emperor regretted. Is that mentioned in "The First Heretic"?

>Negatory. But there's a reason for that. The only 'looking back' to past worlds is done by Lorgar, who shines everything up in his own special way. He speaks about how grand everything was; how glorious; how it was perfect, and so on. I want the moment of "Are you kidding me? You guys were fanatically religious tyrants sometimes" to come when the Legion confronts the Ultramarines at Calth, and the Word Bearers are brought face to face with their sins.

>As it stands, the Word Bearers are pretty much the only Legion still in possession of their Remembrancers. The tyrannies of the past are going to catch up to them when they unleash the sins of the future, especially as Argel Tal is a reflective soul.

>Narratively speaking, it's not an omission, it's a more dramatic reveal to have it in The Two Towers or The Empire Strikes Back, rather than blow everything in Fellowship or A New Hope.

>>51431865
>Pius had to die in front of him, to prove to Emps that Horus was beyond help.
>Pius
The Terminator never had a name.

>>51425338
His potions are too weak

>>51431453
Warhammer was never about that. Warhammer was about satire and Dudes Bigger Than Life doing Bigger Than Life things. By making everything gray you devalue the sense of epic and heroism in the setting, turning it into realism, which is ridiculous, because it's still a setting about knights in power armor fighting with chainsword and tanks bigger than buildings shooting at demons and green tritangulars. The result we can see in HH novels, where Emperor literally uses fedoralord arguments and generals who live for hundreds of years behave like children incapable of any reasoning outside of "muh edgy teenage phase".

>>51432110
THIS.
Gray has no place in 40k, and trying to force it in the HH novels is a huge part of why they're utter shit. It completely ruins the mythic nature of the story. There are heroes and there are villains and that's it.

>>51429729
I mean he had zero time for Hayden.

Would he be down with the Big E's secretive tendencies and demands for unquestioning loyalty?

He's so goddamn singleminded that I'm not sure he's capable of believing in the Emperor's vision.

The Kharn comparison is incredibly apt.

>>51432302
>I'm not sure he's capable of believing in the Emperor's vision.
He doesn't give a fuck about Emperor's vision. But he will belive in the Emperor himself. HE knows that Emps only wishes good for mankind and they are both willing to sacrifice everything for it.

>>51432380
Only until the first time Emperor tries to subjugate a planet that wanted to be left alone.

>>51432415
He would understand if he could see a bigger picture. He didn't destroy the last argent filter, whe Hayden told him that it would lead to energy crisis and countless deaths. So doomguy can be reasoned with. He would hate Emps for it, he may not even follow him, but he would always help him preserve humankind.

>>51432415
He would understand that a united humanity is stronger, and that people who want to shirk their responsibilities to humanity do not deserve sympathy.

>>51432505
>>51432460
He doesn't seem like someone who is okay with compromises or half-measures.

>>51432544
Which is why he would stand by the Emperor.

>>51432554
Or throw him into the warp and jump after him. To take a more direct action.

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>>51425338
I already do.

>>51427754
CREDO!

>>51432091
Yes, fucking thank you. This retarded Pius shit was never true.

>>51432110
Preach it brother, 40k is about absolutes.

Hell, its poster boys, SM are basicallh children in their behaviour, believing in absolutes all the time, unshakable faith in the father figure, aspiring to be heroes, and going at it again and again.