/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>51412479
I haven't yet, but I plan on running my eclectic group of Technocrats (An ITX Cyborg, A VE Space Explorer, a Progentior Genetisit/Shapeshifter and an NWO Spy Master/Propogandist) through Chaos Factor when they get a bit more xp

>>51412479

Ran two parts of the Dreams of Avarice Chronicle for a Mummy campaign, it went pretty well though I had to make some major changes for the second part.

>>51412479
Im currently running blood drive, but my game is set in 1979 miami. I just changed modern mentioms and the end location is now Dallas instead of Chicago.
Its working just fine

What was Rasputin again? I thought he was a body surfing wraith, but people last thread said he was alchemical gen 1 vampire. I know he's been depicted has numerous different clans and even has Shadow lord and a Mage.

>>51413040

A running gag among writers at the time, no matter what the original intentions.

>>51413040
Rasputin was a number of different Clans. His end goal was to basically become a faux Caine by becoming a member of every Clan, probably for unlimited power. On the player side of thngs, killing him as a faux Caine would have tricked the universe into thinking that Caine was dead, and thereby Gehenna would have been averted.

But this was a) silly, and b) far too happy a potential ending for Vampire, so it was scrapped.

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A little update to Clanbook: Caitiff. This is going to take much longer than the VMM did, but I'll try and keep you guys posted.

And even INVOLVED, if you like! I want to have a number of "Caitiff through the ages" for Part One, but White Wolf hasn't made that many of them. Empusa is my first crack at that, a bronze age Caitiff of probably 4th or 5th Generation. Stoneman, who is canonical, isn't very helpful on that front because his past is deliberately mysterious.

I'd like suggestions/ideas for a Caitiff of note from the Ancient World up through to the modern day. It'll make my life easier! Anyone who contributes will of course be mentioned in the credits.

>>51413334
As someone with no history and little interest in VtM, what's a Caitiff?

>>51413537
A vampire with no clan, without clan disciplines and without clan curses.

>>51413537
Complicated question with multiple answers, but >>51413603 is what most people usually mean.

Caitiff can also refer to those vampires that DO have a Clan but don't know what it is; or in some cases, vampires to who do know their Clan but have been disowned by it for some reason. However note that in these cases it's a purely social title: in either case the vampire still, from a mechanical perspective, has a Clan.

Clanbook: Caitiff is about "true" Caitiff, those who mechanically lack a Clan, through some quirk of the blood.

Note, also, while they lack Clan Disciplines, they also lack out-of-Clan Disciplines. Caitiff can learn any Discipline for the same experience cost of [6xCurrent Rating], as compared to a Clan Disciplines [5xCurrent Rating] or out-of-Clan [7xCurrent Rating]. And I do mean ANY Discipline. Caitiff are famous for being able to spontaneously develop Disciplines from Clans they're in no way related to - Obtenebration, Serpentis, even Thaumaturgy or Necromancy can pop up among them.

>>51413537
The other anons are correct, but you'll also see it used to refer to thin-bloods (near-human vampires).

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>Just as you can heal the wounds you cause by licking them, heal the wounds caused by others by licking them
>licking
What part of vampire mythology is this from?

>>51413845
The part where they need to maintain a secret society for game cohesion.

>>51413845
Sexual themes have been part of vampire lore since Bram Stoker.

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>>51413927
They predate him by a good bit, actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmilla

Okay, hear me out on this one.
Vampire - Life
>animated by the power of life within Vitae, which also fuels their powers
Werewolf - Spirit
>native to the Shadow, literally half-spirit
Mage - Prime
>obviously
Promethean - Matter
>entire gameline references alchemy, gold, lead, etc.
Changeling - Fate
>influenced by the Fae, can create binding contracts similar to Acanthus
Hunter - Forces
>"Vigil" references light and fire, also one of the most combat-oriented lines
Geist - Death
>obviously
Mummy - Time
>tied to a cycle of Sothic Turns, have likely awoken in several different eras
Demon - Space
>both angels and demons can hack space (see Boltholes)
Beast - Mind
>basically possessed by Goetia, have a literal mind palace

>>51413862
Also there would be a lot more dead bodies if you couldn't quickly and neatly seal the wound

>>51413969
I can vouch for demon. You even store your unused covers in space drawer

>>51413969
Vampire being life feels wrong, mostly because the Arcana doesn't even effect them.

>>51413969
I don't think it's appropriate for Hunters to represent an arcana, since they're not really supernatural creatures at all, Endowments and potential endgame as Slashers notwithstanding.

>>51414091
Well, we'll see what Deviant brings to the table then.

>>51414073
Well spirit doesn't exactly affect Werewolfs. Maybe if we would do pairs of arcanas for each splat like

>vampire
Death and Time
>Geist
Death and Spirit

>>51413845
It's a mythology thing in general. Wound-licking is an instinctive reaction for a lot of animals and agents in saliva actually help to speed up blood clotting and an enzyme in spit actually helps defend against infection, although this doesn't mean you should just spit on your cuts because mouths are filthy. The whole phoenix tears thing comes from this too probably, because that same enzyme is found in tears.

>>51413334
Wait, are you asking for some cool Caitiff characters to go in there?

>>51413334
>>51414270
Speaking of cool caitiff characters, there was this cool spymaster from the Dark Ages who served one of the founders of the Camarilla.

I am horribly ill and trapped at work with nothing to alleviate the pain.

Tell me about your favorite game moments from any chronicles you were in?

>>51413334
Well if we're going by canon then Pander and Mukhtar Bey are obligatory.

As for original ideas what do you think of a Nosferatu caitiff, who is hunted and despised by the mainstream clan but at the same time is being searched for by the Nictuku who think that it's proof that Absimiliard's plan is paying off?

>>51414131
why doesn't spirit affect werewolves? they're half spirit

>>51414441
Hard to say. I liked the look on everyones faces when prince tossed guy who created revenant and was smug about it into the fireplace

>>51414513
I was thinking about effects like command/summon. Or do they work on them? I might be mistaken

When it comes to survival/self-sufficiency/utility, what are the greatest Disciplines?

>>51414519

That is funny. Did you at least 'like' your Prince?

>>51414595
n or o?

>>51414595

Protean, Obfuscation, Fortitude, Auspex seem obvious.

I don't think i need to mention Celerity.

>>51414535
You can't do that, no. You could trap one with a Spirit Ban, though.

>>51413969
I'd say Vampires are Death and Mummies are Life. but that does make issues for Geist. You could use the same argument for Mummies being Time on Vampires.

>>51414623
o

>>51414610
Well kinda. He was acting more like police chief from action movies mixed with someone straight out of middle ages than some scheming politician.

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>>51414441
Running Mage, shrine-maiden tried to rouse the spirit of a stegosaurus, botched, Paradox made the skeleton come to life in the museum and go crazy.

This was supposed to be a subtle mission.

>>51414646
well celerity and fortitude make a decent cant kill me yet i can kill you set. obfuscate is great. whatever level of auspex needed to detect invis people is extremely useful. protean can have its uses, mainly earthmeld and flight form/mist form. if you have lvl 5 dominate you can possess your retainer and stay at home all the time while still being able to interact.

those would be the general ones then things get kinda funky at elder levels.

>>51414719

Does anyone actually play at anciliae and elder levels? I like the gane more when you have some xp and discplines under your belt, a little more fleshed out as a vampire, but not the 6+ 'take on the antediluvians' scale people seem to focus on.

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In honor of the acclained Underworld series, how would you make a vampire - werewolf romance work?

nwod and owod apply.

>>51414939
Probably with abominations because I'm an edgelord faggot.

>>51414832
yes. i've played basically every gen that isnt 3rd or lower. games come in all shapes and sizes.

>>51414939
Gangrel takes wolf shape, werewolf takes wolf shape

wolf-fuckin' ensues

>>51414939
nwod is already gear to crossover read The Pack It's pretty good

>>51414986

To me it sucks when a lot of STs think of fledglings or neonates as 'level 1, but aldo X vamp npc's bitch'. That shit has turned me away from a couple of games.

>>51415018
well until released by your sire you still count as a childer and thus are his bitch. play an older character. now if you never wanna be anyones bitch, you're playing the wrong game. one of the big themes is that theres always something older and more powerful and smarter than you and yes he wants to use you and everyone else as puppets. thats how the jihad rolls.

>>51414997
no. at least not in Owod. vamps aint good at feeling sexy time as they dont have fully functioning sex organs. the gangrel can however subsume a wolf and fuck with all abandon while feeling the full joy of sex.

>>51415002

Another very good crossover section is in the Demon Storyteller's Guide.

>>51415018
Fledglings and neonates ARE pretty much unilaterally somebody's bitch. You don't really become your own independent actor until you hit ancilla, and in the fledgling phase you're basically an extension of your sire.

>>51415083

There is mote to it than that. It can be a student-mentor relationship, or a surrogate parent. Maybe the fledgling is thinks they are an inspirational leader and loyal of their own freewill.

There are lots of ways to do a childer and sire relationship, but the one everyone loves to default to is 'commanding antagonistic patriarch', at least in my personal experience. Why would you sire someone and pour resources into them if you disdain them? Isn't that what ghouls are for, not fellow kindred? They can't ALL be like this.

>>51415167
Yeah but remember that they're always paranoid their childer'll pull off a third gen and kill them, add to that that you're responsible for your childe's actions and it's understandable why they're so grumpy

>>51415248

ITT: Vampire elders are like bitchy single moms who were irresponsible and got knocked up with a kid they hate

>>51415002
>The Pack

You mean the book that blatantly states how much better an Apprentice Mage is at dealing with Spirits than an Elder Uratha?

Geared towards crossover, indeed.. .. ..

>>51415167
>Why would you sire someone and pour resources into them if you disdain them?
this can be found repeatedly throughout cannon. its usually because you want to fuck with their world view or they are extremely good at something you need.

yes thats not the only type of relationship but is a fully supported one.

So since anon's writing a caitiff book, I have a question.

How exactly does that work in vampiric terms?

As far as I know, when the embrace happens, a piece of the sire's soul merges with the childe's soul. So when a caitiff is produced, does that piece malfunction?

>>51415635
Yes, sometimes that's the case, other times it's the fact that the Sire was killed, scared off, or otherwise simply not able to raise their Childe.

>>51415555
>You mean the book that blatantly states how much better an Apprentice Mage is at dealing with Spirits than an Elder Uratha?

That isn't what it says though. You're just gobbling up what shit posters are feeding you.

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>>51415688
Dude, Shut the fuck up. It's bait.

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>>51415688

>"Apprentice mages can work spirit magic even elder werewolves can't"

Apparently the only edge Werewolves have is their intimacy with such things, but that doesn't really speak for much.

>>51415248
>Ever committing diablerie and thinning the blood of Caine
You only gain one Generation regardless of the Generation of the vampire you ate.

>>51415749
Different != Better.

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>>51415725

Perhaps if you picked up a fucking book in your life? >>51415555 Anon is right.

>>51415555

"Crossover" does not mean every pc or splat is equally good or bad at the same things.

For instance, not every mage is proficient in Spirit.

>>51415750
Unless he's really old, in which case you gain several

>>51415750
That's false. The books stated otherwise, and there was some 11th gen who diablerized Mithras (a 4th gne) and became 6th or so.

>>51415799
Even with the rare exception cases like that one, there's still some loss. There were two generations lost there. That brand-new sixth gen can't produce any fifth or sixth gens, whereas Mithras could had he not been eaten.

Why is there a wizard faction when it comes to vampirism?
I honestly don't see the point in the Tremere, at least a large portion of vampire powers are from myth or understandably vampiric.

>>51415836

Because folklore depicted Vampires as such in the past. You're going by a common stereotype that seems to think they got locked off from the occult.Bram Stroker's Dracula was a powerful sorcerer ane one of the ten apprentices under the Devil. They never actually stated what his teacher was, exactly.

Blood magic makes a lot of damn sense.

>>51415749
>but that doesn't really speak for much.

No?

>>51415798
>>51415799
>>51415832
From V20:
>The true benefit of diablerie becomes evident if the diablerist feeds on the vitae of a vampire of lower Generation (e.g., if a Ninth-Generation vampire commits diablerie on a Seventh-Generation vampire). The diablerist literally steals the power and potency of the victim’s own blood, and thus permanently lowers her own Generation by one, bringing her closer to the mythical power of Caine. All benefits of the lowered Generation — a larger and more potent blood pool, the ability to Dominate more Kindred and, in some cases, the ability to increase Traits above 5 — are bestowed upon the vampire.
>If the victim was of far greater power (five or more Generation levels) than the diablerist, the Storyteller may rule that the predator lowers her Generation by more than one step. This is particularly likely if the victim was ancient (two millennia or more). It would not be unreasonable for a Twelfth-Generation neonate who drank the blood of a 3000-year-old member of the Fifth Generation to advance three or even more Generation steps. Ultimately, this decision rests in the Storyteller’s hands.
So in almost all cases you'll only go up by one, and even if you don't there's still going to be some waste (of at least two Generations, unless your ST is feeling especially generous).

>>51415749
>interfering with a mage is a great way to find out which fates are worse than death

Damn, nothing is safe from Mage supremacy.

>>51415836

I think you're a bit limited on your history.

>>51415943
To be fair, interfering with a werewolf is also that.

Well, rather it's mostly a great way to find out all the fun and interesting ways you can die.

>>51415108
Aren't half-vampires a thing?
I pretty sure they're a sign of the end of days for the more powerful vampires, but they do exist.

>>51416072
I think thin-bloods can breed, yeah.

>>51416110
And their children can become completely immune to every level of Obfuscate!

>>51416072
There were several types of Quasi-vampires in oWoD, Revanents which were basically ghoul Families which can breed true and have their own blood pools also work.

>>51416159
Shoutout to KotE Dhamphyir.

>>51416005
While a Thyrsus is a counter to any Uratha, they also make for very powerful allies. Similar to the Acanthus and Changelings.

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>>51416179
The only thin I loved from KoTE was Thousand Hells and D E V I L T I G E R S. Everything else was kinda nuts.

>>51416193
Or a Geist and a Moros, or an Obrimos and a Demo- Huh...maybe not that last one.

>>51416213
Moros would also be a good fit for vampires.

>>51416200

Devil Tigers were awesome

>>51416228
Could also add a little sprinkle of Mastigos in there as well. Or just have the Moros get a few tricks in Mind.

>>51416179

While a Thyrsus would make an exceptionally good ally, a mage of any Path would provide significant strength, versatility and influence to any Pack (or motley, coterie, etc.).

>>51416213

If any splat engages in battle with anyone (including and particularly mages), requires stealth or may benefit from control of technology, they'll damn well appreciate their friendly neighborhood Obrimos.

>>51416200
>>51416232
This offends my Crane sensibilities.

>>51413969
Hunter and Vampire a a bit of a stretch, but still cool.

What's better, 1st or 2nd edition Awakening?

>>51416282
Forces is just so damn versatile.

Could perfecting magic empower gifts, disciplines, contracts, etc. Cause that would make crossovers a lot more interesting.

>>51416200
>>51416232
Devil Tigers got a lot of play in my KotE games because the other Dharma concepts were hard for my players to grasp.

Speaking of, how is there not a KotE20th or anything yet? Have they just not gotten around to it? I'd love some books that aren't printed with grey text on grey backgrounds.

>>51416316
Depends on the power in question. Some things, like what you're asking, require Archmastery. Sometimes not always. A Fate Adept can nullify and rewrite a Changeling's Contracts, for instance.

>>51416316
It can if you want it to. It wouldn't be much of a stretch really.

>>51416312
>Forces is just so damn versatile.

Anyone who can control gravity is a good ally to have (and someone not to irritate).

>>51416383
>reading through the Free Council book
>you can use Forces to fucking enchant cars to drive up walls

>>51416193

>Acanthus and Changelings

Yeah, the Acanthus will fuck over a Changeling entirely once they reach Adept status. Same with Demons. Fate is a bit too strong for my taste.

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>>51416420
>Thearch reacts to Libertine's bullshit

>>51416325

Too offensive to nips and gooks who don't play these games to begin with

Guys how should I make a Mage who supports other supers in a crossover game? I want to be the one giving out enchanted swords and mithril armor, using my magic and cunning to help them (the 'heros') along the way.

Think Gandalf, but modern.

So in oWoD are all the infernalists actually summoning up spirits of the Wyrm? Or are they actually dealing with demons from the Demon line?

>>51416598
Fate and Prime

>>51416325
Well, I mean they're not that complex
>Devil Tigers
Be Awful so that others are Better.
>Resplendent Crane
Proper Thought, Proper Household, Proper Nation, Proper World. Be Virtuous.
>Thrashing Dragon
Don't think, Act. Be Alive. Live so hard so that people start considering an intervention because you've missed too many Interventions.
>Thousand Whispers
Die the Little Death a bunch of fucking times and fuck that karmic wheel up.
>Bone Flowers
Be Wednesday from the Addams Family.

>>51416598
FATE and don't mention Arcadia to changelings, they'll get antsy.

>>51416598
If you're going to be enchanting shit regularly then read the Earth chapter in Tome of the Mysteries so that you aren't burning Willpower dots all the time.

>>51416460
Mage has always been the most powerful of the gamelines both old and new. Was this ever a big surprise?

>>51416620
Shhhhhhhhh, its okay.

>>51413946
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmilla
Uh, what?

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vampyre

This is just going to turn into another wank thread. I have given up at this point.

>>51414595
>When it comes to survival/self-sufficiency/utility, what are the greatest Disciplines?

All the physical disciplines are great for survival (Potence, Fortitude, Celerity) since you're sooner or later going to face off against someone who wants to kill you where a speech won't save your ass, and Protean and Animalism allows most vampires to survive extended periods in the wilderness and away from more permanent havens.

If I had to pick one that's more "survival/self-sufficient" than any other, I'd go with Protean, since it gives you so many different benefits: a way to reliably inflict aggravated damage, animal forms to help you move large distances, earth melding to protect you from the sun, mist-form to escape near-certain death, and so on.

Don't get me wrong, the other disciplines are awesome as well, but they tend to be very specialised in their areas; protean is a "jack of all trades" discipline, and in the long term, it's better to have multiple ways of surviving through the nights.

>>51416598
That's pretty much Fate.
Don't push it too hard though, or you'll piss off your GM.

Also consider Matter instead, and focusing on enhancing the weapons, armour, clothing and tools of your friends.

Do you think Proximi having the ability to either awaken as a Mage, or turn into another one of the splats is a bad idea?
I want to make a Proximi family that has branched out and intertwined itself with another supernatural thing, but I'm not sure that's even possible.... Or a good thing.

>>51415108
>no. at least not in Owod. vamps aint good at feeling sexy time as they dont have fully functioning sex organs.

Depends on the edition.

In V20, the latest edition, vampires can (and many do) have sex, and can even feel pleasure from it. That said, it's still noted to be "muted" in a sense compared to when they were alive, and drinking blood is still a hundred times more orgasmic, so many vamps don't bother with it unless they're using it as an excuse to reliably feed on mortals... or if they're just hedonistic sluts/manwhores like the Toreador oten are,

>>51416072
>Aren't half-vampires a thing?

Yes: Thin-bloods can have sex with mortals and on rare occasions this union will result in a child being born. This is called a "Dhampir".

The child can learn disciplines (only the first level), has his/her own self-regenerating bloodpool, ages more slowly, and can walk just fine in the sunlight. Kinda similar to a revenant (inbred ghoul bloodlines).

The Kuei-Jin/Cathayans (the eastern vampires) also have a form of half-vampire called "dhampyrs", who are much more common in the Kuei-Jin courts than the western dhampirs. Mind you, they're still rare, but not in the same sense as the "ERMAGERD, IT'S LIKE FINDING A UNICORN!"-western vampires.

>>51417797
Proximi can certainly Awaken as a Mage, usually to the path from which they draw most of their Arcana.

>intertwined itself with another supernatural thing
I'd certainly entertain the thought of them working with other Supernaturals.
Arcadian Proximi + Changelings, or Stygian Proximi + Sin Eaters sounds good.

But making Proximi Werewolves or Proximi Vampires?
Stupid fucking idea.

>>51417843
I'm not thinking of making Proximi AND things.... More like in this odd family it is possible to either awaken as a Mage OR become a Beast. Becoming one or the other results in them forsaking their base Proximi-ness.

>>51417945
Eh, maybe.
Tastes like a shitty crossover to me.

>>51417945
I don't see why not, but I'm not sure if being proximi would give someone any more chance of becoming a Beast/Sin-Eater/Whatever than a vanilla mortal

>>51416598
Forge Master my man, you can make the finest swords and lawnchairs from mana alone.

>>51418163
Which splat makes for the finest lawn chair material, Anon?

>>51418114
That was one of the things I was unsure of; I figured I'd have it so that a couple of Mages messed with something that they shouldn't have and it left a sort of spiritual stain that attracts whatever they turn into to them.
Or they were made to make a deal with some powerful thing that resulted in the change.

Again I'm just spit balling ideas here.

>>51418114
>>51417945
>>51417797

Wolf-blooded proximi?

>>51418416
Original Archmage thought it would be a hoot that as well as granting them Supernal powers, and potentially Awakening, some who fucked up would "fall" into being another shittier Supernatural.

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>>51418518
Sort of.
I'm either going to go with Beast or one of the changing breeds for this Proximi family.
I want spooky goatmen and they're the two splats that can do that easily.

>>51418733
>Beast or changing breeds

The two lines that even kindly could only be described as WW disasters?

>>51414441
Mage players escaped from a Void Engineer space station-cum-prison facility where they were being brainwashed and walked home through the Deep Umbra, giving the finger to the Void Engineers as they strode out the airlock and away without pressure suits.

>My paradigm doesn't recognise your bullshit explosive decompression

>>51418375
Gangrel, they're a bit uppity but once you tame them they're the comfiest lawnchairs ever invented

>>51418836
Well what else could I use to get spooky goat people?

>>51418903

I would design a Proximi dynasty linked to the Primal Wild, with a focus on shapeshifting, and have their curses linked to animal features.

>>51418375
>>51418882

MAGEFAGS GET OUT

>>51413334
How about this?

Zaracas was a humble merchant who plied his wares in the street markets of Carthage. He learnt not to question the immortal Council of Elders, he never asked where the missing people from the streets went or the bloodthirsty practices of the city temples. When the Roman army came, so did the Malkavian and Ventrue forces, and after dark when the soldiers bunkered down by their fires, shadowy forces fought on rooftops. Zaracas never saw who lifted him up and drained him, only felt and tasted the blood that pulled him like a lifeline from the void beyond. Was he a decoy? A panicked attempt at a shock troop? Was his sire Brujah, Ventrue, Malkavian? Baali?? He only knew he had to get away, and so stealing a small fishing vessel he made his way out the harbour through the fire and confusion, beneath notice even then. He learnt that he could pass himself off as a Brujah, and with the common knowledge of Carthage he was often welcomed by Brujah coteries, eager to hear stories of their "fallen paradise". He never spoke to them of the temples, the blood that poured in rivers to subterranean crypts, the unholy things that danced at midnight in the blasted fields. No-one wants to hear the truth when it comes from a Caitiff....

>>51414677
>Dammit Dracula, I've got the Justicar up my ass about the collateral damage on this one. You flattened eight city blocks just to take out a single cell of Blood Brothers!! What the fuck do you CALL that?

>A result, my liege.

>>51414939
Two species, both alike in dignity,
In World of Darkness, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean. 5
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes
A pair of star-cross’d lovers take their life;
Whose misadventur’d piteous overthrows
Do with their death bury their tribal strife.
The fearful passage of their death-mark’d love,
And the continuance of their parents’ Rage,
Which, but their children’s end, nought could remove,
Is now the two hours’ gaming of our stage;
The which if you with patient ears attend,
What here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend.

>>51418974
But then I'm missing the reason that I made them in the first place; to give mages a connection with another monster that's more than just casual acquaintanceship.

>>51418982
Who left this lawnchair lying here?

>>51418853
>Not using a Zeppelin to have a battle with a void ship.

>>51419233
>Give Mages a connection with another Monster
But the nature of Mage's power is that it is disconnected.
It's subverting the nature of the world as it is, to impose what it should, or could be.

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What kind of werewolf is this?

>>51419538
Looks like a Silent Strider to me.

>>51416542
You have the right idea, if even if you expressed it like an inbred racist.

OPP and WW seem too hypersensitive to causing offense these days. Expect the new Gypsies book to be ultra-PC.

>>51419538
The Hound of Dunkerville

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So is Vicissitude a "legitimate" Discipline or no? Are you corrupting yourself if you take it up?

>>51419560
Over half the groups in the World of Darkness fit some racist 'magic negro/native/savage' meme. I don't even know how they got away with it when they wrote them. Beast hardly even surprises me in that context.

>>51419605
Its a great way to get absorbed/become one with Tzimisce during Ghenna.

>>51416620
Neither. Book of Madness Revised says that they're actually the dreams of the Neverborn, the blasphemous monsters that sleep fitfully around the Void in the heart of the Labyrinth (Wraith the Oblivion setting). When the events in Ends of Empire occurred, some of those Neverborn stirred, and their dreams evaporated. This meant that the Infernalists suddenly lost some of their allies and mentors with no clue as to why. This is also why the Nephandi lost WW2, because Gorool woke up and went full Godzilla on the Kingdom of Iron, and the Nazi Nephandi suddenly lost all their Infernal buddies.

>>51419331
That's kind of a limiting view to have there buddy.

>>51419306
No etherites in the party. No Zeppelins available. I thought it was funnier if they walked home. Lots of reasons.

>>51419706
>No etherites
:(

>>51419538
>Homid Garou Can't Jump
>starring "Refuses-To-Pay-His-Taxes"

>>51419605
It boils down to ST Fiat. Ask your ST if Vicissitude is the right Discipline for you!

>side effects may include: poison blood, Derangements, infecting the rest of your Sabbat Pack, being hunted by the True Black Hand and merging with the Cathedral of Flesh.

>>51419606
>throw entire continents of magical traditions into a grabbag of generic how white man shamanism
>when people complain about it change the name to something stupid and call the old name their slave name
its a good thing abbos, injuns, mongols and africans don't play or else OP would have a lot of angry letters on their hands

>>51419712
Yeah, I know. These days I'd probably make one just as an ST character, because I have a fondness for old Universal Horror films. I'd have to give him a ridiculous accent and a constant quest to create Unobtanium, so zat I, Ludvig van Vinklerhoffen, shall become ze greatest inventor IN ZE VORLD!!!!

>>51419770
The thing is that the "name changes" are mentioned in the Intro chapter, but don't appear anywhere in the Character Creation chapter. They could have retconned it that way, but again, they didn't.

Fuck them. Dreamspeakers will always be Dreamspeakers to me. I don't see what's racist about that, it's not like they called them "The Darkies" or anything.

Same applies to SONS of Ether. Come at me, bro.

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>>51415749
Even the writers are Magefags. Fucking wonderful. Why do we even bother to second guess Mage supremacy at this point.

>>51419890
Because Science! is the true magick.

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>>51419913
My negroid companion

>>51419860
Changing the name is even more racist than leaving it since it implies the Dreamspeakers were too stupid, weak or passive to be able to simply correct people when they got the name wrong. The whole thing greatly diminishes the Dreamspeakers, who are supposed to be a member in good standing among the Traditions.

>>51419980
Phil Brucato and his unpaid writing think tank are all awful people who are so far up their own ass they come back out the other end.

>>51419980
>>51419860
1. Sons of Ether are always going to be Sons of Ether. The gender neutral is "Etherites" though "Sons" is also acceptable.

2. I like the idea that the Dreamspeakers grouped themselves together as a single tradition for better representation, as opposed to the idea that they were grouped together because they were all 'primitive'.

>>51419890
>Mage supremacy

Only misinformed biased dung monkeys disregard the power that is Mage. Currently, only Demon and Mummy come close to them, and that's before you even put forth the Archmasters.

Pointless argument, and only because people like to ignore material evidence. Or they just don't bother to even read Mage and how it works.

>>51420005
Brucato is THA BES' WRITER

>>51420009
>Sons of Ether
Feminists have always snarked at Etherites. Best not draw them out.

>>51420037
Don't go overboard now. Even if it's not necessarily untrue.

>>51420085
There is literally nothing wrong with calling a female member of the Sons of Ether a "son" or an "Etherite"

>>51420109
There never was. WoD is just full of SJWs and PC liberals.

I don't have a problem with the original name, I just like "Society of Ether" more. It's the only one of the name changes that feels fitting. Now, Virtual Adepts being the Mercurial Elite or whatever, that's some fucking bull right there.

>>51418518
Parent Path: Thyrsus
Special: All _____ are Wolf-Blooded and may purchase Wolf-Blooded Merits.
Blessings (Life, Prime, Spirit):
Life:

Analyze Life (o), Web of Life (o),

Heightened Senses (Life oo) Lure and Repel (oo),

Prime:

Pierce Deception (o), Supernal Vision (o),

Supernal Veil (oo), Wards and Signs (oo),


Spirit:

Exorcist's Eye (o), Know spirit (o),

Channel Essence (oo), Ephemeral Shield (oo), Gossamar Touch (oo), Opener of the Way (oo), Shadow Walk (oo),

Bolster Spirit (ooo), Reaching (ooo),

Curse
Persistent: Must take part in a Sacred Hunt at least once a lunar cycle.

Severe: Whenever _____ suffers a Paradox, they fall into Wasu-Im for 15 minutes,

but they don't transform unless they have a Tell that activates do to entering Wasu-Im, such as Anger Issues.

If a ____'s Curse is triggered by missing a Sacred Hunt, they fall into Wasu-Im from sunset to sunrise.

>>51420492
That curse is rubbish.

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>>51419622
>>51419758
>optional/not inherently corruptive
Woo
>Cathedral wants you and it to make like a vore doujin
Might be interesting regardless.

>>51420142
Wouldn't they just as likely be in support of calling female Etherites "sons" though? Like with that whole "women can be kings too!!" shit.

>>51420901
>>51420217
>>51420109
>>51420085
It doesn't matter what you call them Science! and the Sons of Ether are still the best thing about the game.

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>>51421619
Tell me about your Sons of Ether. What were they like, what did they do?

Why is Czar Vargo best human?

>>51419890
I don't think anyone has ever proven that Mage isn't the greatest gameline, now that I think about it. They're extensive as all hell and have no real limit to the power they can achieve.

>>51421654
I burned down a building of homeless people trying to zap a spirit with an ether ray! And phased myself out of reality trying to hide my lab from reporters! And injected drugs into my brain to see spirits and ghosts! It was such a fun game. I once accidentally blew up a nuclear reactor thing and had to get purified by the elders to not die. Fun times.

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>>51421747
In my campaign I'm running one of the NPCs is effectively an older Jonas Venture Sr. He's the most knowledgeable person in the city about the supernatural and fought the Technocracy in pulpy fashion during the 60's and 70s with ray-guns, robots, rockets, and flair.

He's out in space for some reason [probably something to do with lovecraftian abominations or threat null or something stupid like that] but his daughter is helping the PCs run tests on Excalibur [long story].

Tell me more about this PC of yours.

>>51421722
They don't like Mage because the idea of people enjoying high-power games offends their sense of weakness. They've made this perfectly clear over the last few threads.

>>51420009
>I like the idea that the Dreamspeakers grouped themselves together as a single tradition for better representation

In the face of the overwhelmingly Eurocentric existing traditions, yes, United We Stand is the best policy.

It's also acceptable to think that they grouped together because they collectively put an emphasis on the power of spirits, the concept of animism and the role of the Shaman in their respective societies. But then Brucatto would have to acknowledge Paradigm, wouldn't he? And Shatyros can't do that, oh no.... we can't have people working True Magick by playing TTRPG's again. Not like last time....

>>51420142
I don't know about "SJW" or "PC liberals", I don't see what desktop computers or Single Jewish Women have to do with anything, BUT!!! I do think that the game devs have become like those white guys who refuse to acknowledge when someone is black for fear of someone calling them racist.

>Can you describe the perp?
>Well, he was.... he... he was tall, and.... um...
>Skin tone?
>he, um.... he looked.... ah, uh, d-darker.... complexion....

>>51420217
"Mercurial Elite?"

How does that fit with what they are or what they do in the slightest? It makes them sound like hangers-on from a Roman Mercury cult.

Yeah, fuck M20. I'm off to order more 2nd hand books.

>>51421928
You should go back to wherever you came from

>>51421880
Order of Hermes [European, but its roots are Near-Eastern in large part]

Celestial Chorus [Primarily European, but roots are Near-Eastern]

Verbena [European]

Akashic [Asian]

Euthanatos [Asian, specifically Hindu]

Dreamspeakers [Not-European]

Cult of Ecstacy [Not sure]

Sons of Ether [European]

Virtual Adepts [European]

So that makes for 5 European Traditions, 2 Asian Traditions, and 2 Who Cares Traditions. I'd say thats about right.

>>51421945
Cult of Ecstasy is european

>>51421959
The wiki says its originally Hindu, just looked it up.

I sure love reporting shitposters. The offensive post disappears from my sight, the Mods are summoned from their Umbral Glade and somewhere a dickhead is forced to leave their basement. Everyone wins.

>>51421995
And the thrill of having power for once must be a great comfort

>>51421943
I've always been here. I make up about a third of the posts on this thread, and have done for over six months.

Maybe you should leave. I'm sure as shit going nowhere.

>>51422017
>making up a third of posts on a general for six months
that's sad

>>51422015
I'm sure it's nothing compared to the heady rush of reading Masters of the Art and pretending an ST would ever let me play as an Archmage.

>>51421945
The Euthanatos are supposed to be a direct tip of the fedora to the Thuggee cults of India. The original concept was to suggest that not all of the Traditions were strictly "good guys", but over time - and especially with Brucatto muddying the waters - the Euthanatos have lost cohesion as a group. It's not entirely clear how they resolve ritual with paradigm, besides being "magic serial killers".

>>51422021
>what is exaggeration, Daddy?

>>51421873
>high-power games offends their sense of weakness
Good point. Requiem, despite being quite popular, was never among the stronger gamelines

>>51421945
>>51421959
>>51421990
The Euthanatos and the Cult of Ecstasy both have ties to the Greco-Roman world, not predominantly South & Southeast Asia. The former Tradition was actually named after the Greek personification of death, Thanatos.

>>51421995
I don't actually see any shitposters, Anon.

Which arcana should I use to summon fish to the dish, although I like the Chalet Swiss?

>>51422095
>an ST would ever let me play as an Archmage
Then why was the book written If not for that specific purpose? Overpowered as it is.

>>51414645
Ah, but nerfed CallOfDuty vampires don't do much with their time anyway. #MageMadeAllHistoryHappen

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>>51422529

The book was written so mages could turn Cain into a lawn chair. Or just blow up galaxies instead.

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>>51422559
Did somebody say Acts of Hubris?
I think I heard somebody say Acts of Hubris.

>>51422474
I like the sushi cause it's never touched a frying pan

>>51419890
The writers just keep fucking CallOfDuty more and more.

Vampire ancient conspiracies: They, ERM, keep fighting over chicks who look like the one someone embraced instead of them, so erm, they snark for eternity.

Mages: Was Alexander the Great a Mage? Well, we're not saying he wasn't!!!! It's your game, so hey, let's assume every great historical figure was a Mage!

>>51422701
>let's assume every great historical figure was a Mage!
Eh, many of the remainder are Lizard People.
Or robots.

>>51422762
I want Reptilians the Conspiracy. Things that aren't human and never were human and are infiltrating human society is one of the few angles they haven't worn out yet.

You guys think the devs get their hard-ons watching Magefags get snarky? Like David Hill taking pics of his small dick, cowering before DaveB's slightly below average penis?

And then the girls laugh and try to seem impressed and keep secret the fact that they Google map'd Hagen's home address and seeing his enormous cock literally literally from outer space.

>>51422791
Eh, theyre probably created by some archmage

>>51422808
Rose stop talking about your dick

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>>51422382
>Good point. Requiem, despite being quite popular,


Is it? I can't really find any groups running it anywhere I look. And I'd really like to play it or run it.

So much magehate. Edgy

>>51422826
I cried

>>51422808
This is one of the funniest things I have ever read on the Chronicles of Fagness.

>>51422888

This is no longer the Chronicles of Fagness, Anon. The werefags were driven out by the magefags.

>>51422791
>Things that aren't human and never were human

Exactly why they won't touch it. Every other splat was Human once upon a time. How can we identify with the monsters otherwise?

>>51414270
I am indeed.

>>51414371
Gonna have to look him up.

>>51414480
Pander, Mukhtar Bey, and Stoneman at the least are all going in, as is Alexi Darba, or at least mentions of him (he's been dead since '73).

I like the idea of a Caitiff who has to deal with his clan's baggage.

>>51419052
Ooh, I like this too.

>>51422826
She's trying to make us think about it

*unzips*

>>51422888
Trips of truth

Holy shitcakes anon

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>>51422961
>The werefags were driven out by the magefags

B-b-b-BUT how could they do this!? Those vile Magefags!! Where did the Werefags run off to?

>>>/trash/7419414

>>51423245
You know where.

>>51421945
>Dreamspeakers [Not-European]
outback Australian

>>51423486

What kind of resonance does gasoline have?

>>51423741
entropic
static

death energy instilled over many millennia at the very least. Same thing as elder vampires

>>51423245
Who likes werefags? They got shitposted to extinction. Even the vampfags can respect what the magefags did.

>>51423894
I did not even noticed we have werefags

What about Aspel? What happened to that thing? Was it one of the werefags?

>>51423998
Aspel disappeared over 2 weeks ago. I don't know if he's even still alive. He did have a blog, but fucked if I can find it now to check.

It's a shame, his argumentative bullshit drove discussion, even if had no bearing on the books themselves, he admitted never actually reading them and felt the need to apologise and justify for OPP's more idiotic gestures constantly.

How shamelessly do you guys steal from movies, books, and tv shows?

>>51424080
Shamelessly and all the time. We even play "what actor does this npc look like"

>>51424080
It takes a little jury-rigging to convert inspiration to WoD, but I had a Verbena with twigs instead of hands based on a scene from Titus Andronicus. I lifted the Children of Judas from the comic series CRIMSON as an Infernalist ally. Also, I don't know an ST alive who didn't run a story inspired by the movie SE7EN.

>>51424080
I get all of my WoD ideas from songs.

>>51424143
Oh holy shit, yeah. Forgot about that. Listening to one song on repeat because it inspires a single scene, then germinating an entire story off that scene....

>>51424157
Btw. Do you guys make playlists for your adventures or just to get in mood when working on a game session?

>>51424217
If I was doing a "Major Event" that I'd been working towards all chronicle, yeah, it had a soundtrack for certain unavoidable scenes. Otherwise it's a bit impractical. Fight scenes drag out much longer than fight songs. Movie soundtracks shift and chop in mood, sometimes right in the middle of your sentences, making a single track play mode your friend.

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Any VtR players looking to get a game together or recruiting? I want some cheesy noir-flavored vampire melodrama, damn it.

>>51424587
Yeah I agree. I mostly just play song I thought of when I was writing down a session at the wrap up and post game talk.

>>51424765
I have an awesome chronicle in the works but I never trust people I meet on the chan

sorry anon

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>>51424849

>>51412479
about to start a new campaign in CofD 2E. Primary template will be Mage (i fucking love the GMC rules and Mage 2E by the way).

One of my players is a big vampire fan, so I'm thinking about letting him play one. My plot is not depending on everyone in the party being a Mage.

Is this a good idea? Do multi-template groups work worse / equal / better than in first edition?

>>51425289
I will tell you from my experience only playing as a demon in vampire group.

Power level should only bother you if you plan on having conflicts among the players. Now bigger problem is in themes of the game. If you can reconcile them for the plot of the given campaign it's great. IMHO in the end however they are bound to split even if they would remain friendly because of divergent tones of both games.

Also my demons cover was severely malnourished due to lack of sleep and forgetting to eat but this is unlikely to be a problem in your game.

>>51425289
I wouldn't advise crossing ver with Mage. It is arguably the most powerful game-line and can overwhelm much.

The same goes for Demon and Mummy to a slightly lesser extent.

>>51425289
>Is this a good idea?
No. He might love vampires but he'll be the odd man out if he plays one in a Mage game. He won't have any bearing on Mage politics, he won't bring anything to the table that the Mages can't accomplish with magic, and what the fuck is the player going to do while the Mages are out and about during the day?

If he loves vampires recommend to him that he play a Moros that focuses on Death, maybe with Mind as a tertiary arcanum. That would let him work magic similar to Disciplines (manipulating and turning into shadows, mental domination, etc). Maybe have vampires as side characters and let him socialize with them. Maybe let him have a vampire girlfriend. But actually letting him be a vampire among a bunch of mages will only lead to salt. Splat inequality is real.

>>51425531
At the starting character level? I wouldn't worry too much. Average mage needs his cabal to back him up. Even if one member of the "cabal" is a vamp what does it matter?

>>51425560
>Average mage needs his cabal to back him up.

This is not true. Once a Mage reaches Adept it's good game for the Awakened and a lot of pain for the Vampire.

>>51425553
This is sound advice simply becouse:
He loves vamps. So he probably loves vampire politics/other themes. If he will spend most of the time hanging out with mages he will not only miss out a lot but he will likely not get what he wanted out of the game.

Mage and vampire can be buddy buddy but more in a way "I need to borrow your car" or "Lets hang out on friday" than working full shift together.

>>51425582
Why is it a pain? The biggest problem is the theme of the game not the "power level". Power level can be worked around but theme of the game is completely different and this is where one guy from other splat hanging out with group composed of another is in trouble

>>51425614
Your comment is contradictory. I don't really know how to respond to it.

>>51425593
>>51425553
Exactly this.

>>51425582
Why, outside of your white room theorycraft that if you have the correct combination of abilities and circumstances, you could maybe win forever disregarding whatever your opponent could be doing and/or their defenses.

>>51425650
What I'm saying he should say no to mixed group on accout of game themes not power level. That's my point

Power level and mechanics you can fuck around with no sweat. Divergent themes require fucking with the setting and splats and that's much harder to do

>>51422983
>Every other splat was Human once upon a time
>What are Prometheans
>What are Demons

>>51425704
Prometheans want to be human, and emulate humanity.
While Demons are forced to act like humans to avoid death at the hands of Angels.

You can probably forgive him neglecting that minor element.

>>51425675
>white room theorycraft
I stopped reading there.


>>51425678
Ah, I see now. I can agree with all of that. I much prefer social games.

>>51425704
Prometheans were humans, from a certain point of view.
Speaking of Prometheans, what are your favorite fan-made lineages/extempore ideas? I'm pretty partial to a sort "Orphean" version of the Ulgan or a Promethean Sin-eater, linked with ghosts instead of spirits.

>>51425725
>Promethean want to be human

I always see so much potential in Promethean because of just that. Acquiring new templates and such.

>>51425730
>I stopped reading there.
No no, prove that a mage at an equal level of a vampire will always win without relying on silver bullet type abilities, a specific string of abilities that have to be taken in order to hard counter, AND takes the vampires defenses up to that level into account.
You can't, because people on /tg/ masturbate to UNLIMITED POWER with no idea how to actually use the shit they talk about in play, because none of you PLAY these games, just bitch about the devs.

>>51425758
Where have you been for the past fifteen threads? This has been discussed so-many-times. Your average Vampire is not going to be a match for the average Mage. Why do you care so much? Just play your damn Chronicle.

>just bitch about the devs
Funny that. Considering the lead developer for Mage blatantly stated that mages, demons and mummies are "noticeably more powerful than vampires". He's also annoyed by white-room discussions. You're not helping by complaining.

>>51425758
The concept of an "equal level" is impossible to emulate in CofD where different splats use different powers in different ways to generate different effects, and even if someone did manage to create two of an "equal level", by fucking definition the Mage wouldn't always win because they're on the same. Fucking. Level.

Mages can be bullshit powerful.
It's their fucking main theme.
People just need to fucking get over it.

But they won't.
Because they enjoy arguing, and shitposting wildly.

>>51425796
I left these threads to play the game because these threads are virtually useless to an ST.
>>51425809
My issue is the people who claim, unequivocally, that mages can and WILL defeat everything forever because if they have a specific combination of abilities that hard counter another creature, they can defeat it.
It's D&D tier nonsense, and it is ALWAYS in these threads.
Yes, mages can become very powerful, but that doesn't mean they are guaranteed victory over everything else, which is why I call out the white room bullshit for what it is. If you are going to make claims, then the math should be able to back it up, especially since 2e math is far more stable across all splats, with no WtF1e issues.

>>51425845
>but that doesn't mean they are guaranteed victory over everything else

None of us are suggesting that. Calm down, we're talking about majorities here, and the majority of vampire confrontations are going to be in favor of the mage.

>>51425704
>>Every other splat was Human once upon a time
>>What are Prometheans

Some of them are literally sewn together from dead Humans. All of them are working towards being Human.

>>What are Demons
Beings that merge with and lose themselves partly in human identities in order to hide. Before they were possessed they were... um... let me see.... handbags? No, that's not right...

Fuck me, you really need to read these books before you try arguing over them.

>>51425845
You're confusing moderates for trolls, buddy. trolls are always going to harp on about "MAGE SUPREMACY" because they've learnt it gets a reaction. The moderate posters really don't give a shit because it doesn't come up in their games, which after all, is the only thing that matters. The trolls probably don't even play, they're just fishing for a reaction on the school computers at lunch hour (I refuse to believe a grown adult is that inane).

Personally, I don't care either way. I'm the ST, what I say goes, and if I want an entire Chantry burned to the ground and full of corpses of bled-out Acanthus, no-one can fucking stop me.

>>51426087
This anon gets it.

What level of Forces is necessary to create a black hole?

>>51426223
In chronicles Arch level and in old 9 sphere

>>51426223
>>51426843
You also need some skills in matter as well unless you use an existing star

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>>51426087
I always wonder why people say STs are the absolute worst kind of GMs when it comes to arrogance, abuse of power and cuntishness. Now I see.

>>51426871
Anon, he's saying he's the GM and if he wants to decide which one is more powerful at his table his word is final. Or, in this case, both of them killing each other.

>>51426918

No they get it, they just don't like it. You've never encountered a TGD-style style of gamer philosophy before?

>>51426871
>I don't like ST's being in charge of my game

Okay buddy, you just sit in a corner and roll dice by yourself then. No-one is going to stop you, even if you do sound like a total crybaby. You can write fanfic if you like, all about your superpowered Archmage collapsing the known universe. It's no skin off my ass. It still won't change a damn thing about what happens in my games.

>>51426918
That's an abuse of power and an example of sheer hubris because the book clearly states that mages kick vampire ass. He might as well tell his players instead of playing Chronicles of Darkness we will be playing Chronicles of Anon

>>51426949
What a gross example of strawman. And don't worry I would not ever play a game where you were the ST thank you very much. I don't even like c/wod I am a shadowrun/SWs player.

>>51426950
>the mage troll is bitching about rule 0 now

So, you've hit rock bottom them?

>>51426970
So you came into this thread to bitch about a game you don't even play? Wow, you really do have too much time on your hands.
>>51426950
Your tears are the sweetest wine of all. You know, I think I'm going to do a special story this weekend, in your honour. A strange "paradox storm" robs all the city's Mages of their power, and the Prince declares a blood hunt to eradicate their filth once and for all. Maybe a few lucky ones will be blood-bonded and serve an eternity as the player's personal gophers, sex slaves and blood sluts. Yeah.... I like that.

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This nigga looks like lacroix lmao

BRING. ME. THE. KEY.

Alternatively,which Technocratic convention would he be in?

Is Mega not working for anyone else?

>>51426223
a black hole is just gravity / mass, therefore there is only a hard limit of Archmage Forces (so 6+). It's not like it will swallow the planet. To create that amount of mass would be insane, as you would require a mass larger than Earth itself to do so. And that mass is appearing suddenly. This is not just Mass Effect Singularity VFX, this is gravity waves disrupting the whole mage universe within much less than a second, and it will tear space itself asunder during that time.
So basically, a good description of what the the destruction of the Ladder would probably have looked like.

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>>51427005
All you have proven is that vampfags are the saltiest most insecure babies on the planet. You can't make this shit up folks!

>>51413334
Big thanks for the Vamp monster manual btw! I'm planning on running WoD for the first time and that resource is gonna be a godsend

>>51427348
And yet, the salinity of your post is far beyond anything that can sustain life. Through your tears, your still cannot acknowledge this simple fact: my games are my own, and your taunts will never change that. Sorry, bitch.

>>51427117
Microscopic black holes are routinely created by CERN inside the Large Hadron Collider. They exist for a split second and then collapse in on themselves. Without sufficient mass, any "black hole effect" will do the same. Still long enough to leave one hell of a puzzle for the Forensic Dept. of the local police force if it's big enough, though.

>>51427056
Syndicate, of course. The kid probably wants CREAM tattooed on his chest when he turns 18.

>>51427091
I just checked it and it seems to be working fine.

Try erasing your cache and existing cookies, then try again.

>>51427749
De nada

>>51419605
Well, depends on the edition and what the ST decrees...

That said, Vicissitude by itself is not corrupting or makes you enslaved to the Tzimisce Antedeluvian, no more than any of the other disciplines. Though, there are the Asakku, vampires whose minds have been twisted through a presence within a certain strain of Vicissitude. They hear whispers and lose more and more of their mind and free will until they eventually turn into walking manifestations of Vicissitude, spreading their version of corrupted Vicissitude to anyone they find and trying to convert any vampire who isn't infected with the Asakku's disease. They also absolutely hate anyone that "inherits" Vicissitude through Clan/Bloodline lineage.

>>51426223
In oWoD? Archmastery.

In nWoD? Theoretically just 5 dots, same as creating anything else.

>>51426223
It would be easier to do it with space.

>>51427768
I actually prefer a completely non-scientific 'black hole' (dubbed by the press that way, because the press loves dubbing things that way) which is actually just a plain immovable rod / one-way bag of holding.
Which is actually a Space 5 spell at most if I think about it...
Damn, this is going to appear in my next Session. And the police will stand around just being plain confused.

>>51419090
Whelp, I have my next chronicle concept.

>>51429066
There is no way the guardians are going to be okay with weaponized singularities.

>>51427117
Which is why a singularity would be easier to create with Space magic. Any mass no matter how small when collapsed past it's Schwarzschild radius will form a singularity. However it'll probably evaporate suddenly and spectacularly.

Since we're on the topic of exotic physics and magic. Would matter magic protect you from anti-matter.

>>51429673
Hmmm. I don't know. Matter magick might allow you to contain it or manipulate it, but any attempt to counter or nullify it would leave a hole in the continent the size of Phil Brucatto's ego. I remember reading that a hand-grenade sized antimatter device would be on par with a thermonuclear bomb in terms of destruction. Safest bet would be to fold space and send it far, far away. The Orion Galaxy, for example.

>>51429810
Anti-matter matter reaction directly converts to energy equal to twice the mass times the speed of light squared.

So for a 2kg reaction
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2kg+*+(speed+of+light)%5E2

You're looking at about 45 Megatons of TNT or so

>>51428825
Interesting. Thanks.

Can a male vampire impregnate a human female in requiem 2e?

>>51430910
Probably.

>>51430910
1e had a devotion that was basically super blush of life that let you do so. I assume you could just use that.

>>51430910
Half-Damned is going to include Dhampir, so I'm sure there is some way for it to happen

>>51430910
Yeah they creat daywalking half breeds called Dhamphir. They have all of a kindreds strengths but none of their weaknesses. Princes have forbid their creation due to their danger.

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>>51431102

Why is Vicissitude+Protean so great?

>>51431166
>Why is Vicissitude+Protean so great?
Because being an immortal shape shifting nightmare monster is pretty great.

>>51423021
...like, old player characters or just cool concepts?

Why is mind magic so lame?

>>51431229
Wut. Mind Arcana is best after Fate/Time.

>>51431229
Because its not as flashy as the other arcanum.

>>51431229
It's not flashy but it's powerful.

>>51431229
What's lame about reading minds, controlling thought, or creating knowledge?

>>51430910
With Coil of Ziva 5 it's definitely possible... but that's not exactly a vampire doing so.

>>51425845

I only have issues when a Mage is better at the niche of a given splat, for example the Uratha thing everyone keeps posting. Especially if they're expected to share the same universe and even have cross-over play potential, unlike owod (this of course may change....)

>>51431586

I mitigate any mage supremacy problems when crossover is an issue in a chronicle by simply making mages very rare, and thus outnumbered.

>>51431586
A mage is meant to forge never Spiritual Hierarchies, a werewolf will never be more than truly a part of one.

>>51431630

They should probably be the rarest splat desu

>>51431647

You sound just like DnDfags. That's not a good thing.

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>>51426223
Forces 9 in oWoD. You can also annihilate entire galaxies and effect the whole universe if it pleases the Archmage. Cain and the Antediluvians just can't compare.

>>51427348
Vampire players being insecure is something I have always neglected to mention out of fear of a bad reaction. They really hate being thought of as weak.

Werewolves are pretty cool

>>51431755

I like both WtA and WtF. Both were fun to play. My favorite splats for both games, really, though VtR is kind of cool.

>>>/trash/7426418

>>51431736

>Cain and the Antediluvians just can't compare

This has been done so many times. The Archmages always win in these discussions. They are potentially stronger than anything in the setting. That's the entire fucking point. Now fuck off and stop shitposting.

>>51431764
I need to look more into WtF. I kind of dig the new direction they went with them

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I have a question. Previously I had been told that the Ananasi were the friendliest of the were-creatures to vampires, if only to the point that they would talk to them and not try to immediately kill them on sight. Reading the Changing Breeds book, however, seems to imply that they hate vampires just as much as other Werewolves and don't kill them merely because it's their nature to scuttle around beneath everyone else's notice. Have I been believing a meme this whole time?

>>51427005
>I'll show you I'm going to fuck up mages with st fiat in a game you aren't in!
Stay salty vampfag

>>51424080
My players fought and then befriended Kung Fu Panda last wednesday.

>>51421943
Uh oh, hit too close to home?

Mathematically it much harder to get the required successes to pull off major effects using spheres magic. Getting godlike effects is always at minimum 20 successes at highestsphere+3 which starts at the city wide effects or toppling a skyscrapers. With threshold mechanics make it even harder

So a while the mage is charging there spirit-bomb werewolf murder machines can wrench his defenseless ass with rage actions

>>51424157
In a non-WoD game I'm running right now the core seed of the entire adventure is a drunken live rendition of Loch Lomond

What is my game and what is my plot? If you get it right you win a prize: Witch hunters at your door because you're a fucking unsanctioned psyker

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>>51432001
Stop injecting your fucking politics into our game discussion.

>b-b-but liberals do it too!

So fucking what. We'll tell them to fuck off whenever it comes up just like we're telling YOU to fuck off.

>>51432015
>Spirit Bombs
Those are 5-dot effects

You also forget that there are 3-4 spheres (Time, Prime, Space & Spirit) capable of holding pre-rolled spells. Good luck fighting a prepared Archmage.

>>51432047

>pre-rolled spells

Charms are so fucking useful. Wards as well. Turns you into a DnD Wizard capable of killing anything at the snap of your fingers.

>>51431659
Especially with of how easy it is for them to communicate and commute long distances. Just hold meetings in the Astral.

>>51431874

Eh its a bit over simplistic to me, but my group kind of ignores it and runs with everything else. The mechanical side is a nice step up at least.

>>51431914
Quick bump.

>>51431914
I haven't read the entirety of the Ananasi book, but from the large sections I have read Ananasi's opinions of vampires vary from individual to individual. Or, perhaps more faction to faction. They think associating with them is a bit shit, but there are Ananasi vampirophiles.

>>51432651

>>51432047
>holding a spell
yeah this isn't dangerous or noticeable at all

>>51432870

>Doesn't know how holding spells works

>>51432870
Held spells aren't noticeable until they are let loose. I don't know what is giving you the impression of otherwise. Charms themselves can be anything. Absolutely anything.

>>51431102
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESU43fx5Hx8

>>51431713
It's a good thing no-one gives a fuck what you think, then.

>>51431736
Rule 0. I'm the ST. Every Archmage in my game was eaten by Lasombra Ante. End of story.

>>51431914
Some of them infiltrate the Camarilla, given how they drink blood and show no emotions. The Ananasi are split three ways between the Wyld, Weaver and Wyrm anyway, so there is no overall consensus.

>>51434507
And that's entirely your call. You can write as many fanfics as you want.

>>51434507

Vampfags will go to any length to ease their fears of being inferior. You can house-rule all you want, buddy. It doesn't make it any less
true.

>>51434764
DaveB, stop posting here no one wants to buy your Mage books

>>51435037
The fuck did that post have to do with mages?
Or is every post that doesn't bow down to vampire whining a mage supremacy post now?