>setting is nature vs technology >nature is considered

>>51373363

One is a sci-fi trope and one is a political and ethical statement.

>>51373363
> >androids are considered right because humans refuse to accept change and advancement that threatens them
I can't remember a single instance where this is true. A species that willingly admits its extinction isn't a species that would fight for survival in the first place.

>>51373363
when you make humans unambiguously right, you are a little egocentric

when you make humans wrong, you can deliver whatever soapbox speech you had prepared

>>51373458
>I can't remember a single instance where this is true
A.I. Artificial Intelligence

>>51373458
AI and The Machine.

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>>51373363
Gunnerkkrigg court, maybe ?
Wouldn't clearly label this a "cyberpunk", but you get that clear cut and passive hostility between the forest (nature spirits, elves, etc...) and the court (basically psyonic scientists with lots of robots).

It is pretty clear that the court hides some dark stuff (first, where did they find all these gifted chidren, and what they are planning to do with their magitech devices), but the forest is clearly ruled by an almighty and childish god of death with a morbid humor, and his borderline crazy wolf-butler.
A shame we don't get to know more about the setting, but the comic's slow pace is quite entertaining.

>>51373458
Pretty much anything by Issac Asimov.

>>51373363
In real life humans are usually right, atleast some of them

>>51373664
And with who are they arguing with? Gibbons?

>>51373702
What do you think people do on 4chan?

>>51373375
I'd say both are political and ethical statements.

Since the only source of intelligence we know irl is mankind, painting the human in a bad light is almost always a cautionary tale about what irks the author in the current world.

Putting them in the good guy shoes is the same. If humanity triumphs over the aliens from Zorglub III because of the power of friendship/overwhelming firepower/..., that's probably because the author thinks that those traits are desirable, rather than humanity is superior.

Ideological separation is way easier when the two viewpoints belong to clearly different species.

>>51373363
>what are some cyberpunk settings where humans are on the side of virtue and the other guys are just assholes?
real life - for a given definition of "human" and "the othe guys"

This is why my little slice of oc cyberpunk sidesteps these issues with a handwave. The situation has already been dealt with and instead things like augmentation and the technology that has turned the world into curosant meets a forge world is considered the norm

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>>51373363
>cyberpunk settings
>someone is clearly on the side of virtue

This is some weird "I've had my mind poisoned by HFY" shit right here.

Nature vs. Technology? There are humans on Nature's side, and its ultimately for the betterment of humans.
Android rights? There are humans campaigning for android rights, and its ultimately for the betterment of humans.

Stop trying to act like these are X vs. Human plots, you dumbass.

>>51373363
>setting is nature vs technology
>technology is considered right because humans are advanced and need resources
>setting is sentient androids vs humans
>humans are considered right because androids refuse to accept tradition and biology that threatens them

>>51373363
See, I'd rather the setting just make up its mind instead of having both of these be true.

If Technology is Bad, then Androids are Bad.

>>51374583
I really hate how HFY turned from a fresh perspective on traditional SF into murder and genocide glorifying, jingoistic crap.

>>51374736
It was always going to turn out that way.

It's written by wannabe murderhobos for wannabe murderhobos. Where do you think you are?

>>51373363
>setting is blank vs. blank
>good v evil dichotomy instead of being subjective

>>51374736
>fresh

Shut the fuck up already, you stupid piece of shit.
"Humans being victorious" has happened since the start of science fiction, all HFY did was say "Boo hoo hoo, humans don't win ALL the time, that means they need to win more!!"

There's nothing fresh about it except idiots confusing complex concepts with "X vs. Humans", like they think it's some sort of cosmic volleyball game.

>>51374767
>subjectivity
>in a world where readers want to ESCAPE from nuance, complexity, and the total lack of any objective qualities in the world they know and live in

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>>51374783
Faggots in 4chan need it more since it become more apparent that everyone is dominating over them in real life too much.
They are more successful in life, marry the crush they like and have children and properties that those faggots will never have.
Dehumanizing the others and then making the plot supposedly underdog useless pathetic """humans""" (a.k.a their self insert) win satisfy their ego despite that those stories do nothing to change their real life situation where everyone dominate over them.

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>>51373756
FUCK YOU HAIRLESS APE, GIBBON RIGHTS

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>51373488
Is that a Hunter on the left?

>>51373458
The animatrix turned the matrix setting into that retro-actively.

>>51373363
>>setting is nature vs technology
>>nature is considered right because humans are too advanced and destroy nature for resources.

>nature is considered inherently good at all
I want the hippies to leave

>>51374583
>muh luddites muh trees muh progress is bad
>for the betterment of humans

>>51375008
>all this projection
Christ allmighty, there is nothing worse than armchair psychologists.

>>51374783
Jesus fucking Christ, it boggles my mind how retards like you can breath and type at the same time.

Yeah, that's exactly not what it was, you fucking idiot. It was about looking at humanity as something else than the "average". It all started with a point that even on Earth, humans are kind of weird, and that we just view ourselves as the default in science fiction because we are us.

You're an utter fucking retard if you think it was always about "winning", and that's exactly what I'm speaking out against, you mong. Try to fucking read the posts you respond to before getting triggered.

>>51375270
The only idiot here is you.

Quit trying to make HFY more than it was, especially with that old stupid "boo hoo hoo, humans are used as the baseline in D&D and that makes me think the designers are calling them boring because I exclusively play humans" bullshit.

You HFY fags just never give up, do you?

>>51375106
It's Robot.
It's a fugitive android who's friends with the two main girls.

>>51375208
>Implying trees stand in the way of progress

>>51374583
>There are humans on Nature's side, and its ultimately for the betterment of humans.
I want the earth liberation front internet defense force to leave

>>51374792
But I love nuance. I get so tired of the people around me trying so hard to pretend things are black and white that I want to escape from THEM and dive face first into a world of subjectivity.

>>51374721
You never find these in the same setting.

>>51374064

I really like the Uplift universe when it comes to this type of story. In the series Humans (and Neochimps and Neodolphins) are the plucky underdogs who keep pulling wins out of their asses, but this isn't really due to some unspecified quality of Humanity but due to the fact that Humans weren't raised to sapience into a billions year old civilization of stagnation. And later in the series we meet member of alien species who have intentionally gone primitive and rejected the galactic civilization, and with just a little push from humanity end up going their own way and they are much like humans in that they are able to grow, change, and adapt without just being humans in a different body.

>>51374682
>technology is considered right because humans are advanced and need resources

Yep, but resources are finite, so better direct all the resources and research into the whole mass and energy theory and create infinite mass and energy.

>humans are considered right because androids refuse to accept tradition and biology that threatens them

Why not give the androids a biological upgrade and make them techno-organic?

>>51379561
Well, they do kinda get in the way when you're putting in roads.

>>51373465
>when you make humans unambiguously right, you are a little egocentric
No you're not.

>>51373363
>humans are a faction
>advanced horticulturalism doesn't have environmental impacts beyond the positive
>humans don't immediately abuse the shit out of AI
>AI looks enough like a person that it either has or desires rights
>whole classes of beings acting like Bethesda RPG factions complete with varying degrees of sympathy and plot holes
>just wanting to alter how sympathetic your favorite faction is rather than scrapping the whole thing

Humans are virtually never a compelling entity as a whole in a story because it's hard to get a good look at something from inside it. It's kind of similar to the reason characters based on the author are so often so weak.

On the topic of peeves in general, the "high minded" shit often isn't much better.
>people have consistent identities, reliable memories, and a clear understanding of the motivations that drive their actions
>they both value and retain these things in a transition into something other than human
>they make the transition willingly rather than largely by accident or for reasons that aren't really clear to them either in the moment or in retrospect

>digital/dream/magic worlds look like the real world but with solipsistic power fantasies and whatever special effects are hot now
>alternatively blue shit with no consistent UI, except that space functions intuitively like space in spite of all the shit you can't do in that system (such as chatting with two people who are available to you but not to each other)
>illusions are pixel perfect recreations of things rather than concepts standing in for objects (the viewer is projecting the idea of a tree into the space) or pixel perfect recordings from past experience, leaving the implications of those alternatives unexplored

>Not having the human/android fighting end up completely fucking pointless since all the humans were actually extremely realistic androids that didn't know it.

>Humans vs Androids
The Animatrix is probably one of the fastest piece of media to turn people towards the Machines and against Humans.

It's a Romanticism vs Enlightenment argument.

>>51373363
I thought cynicism was a central element of cyber punk. Hence the punk.

What you want is cyberhfy.

>>51380337
Oh, and by the way, the setting you're looking for is either Star trek or Mass effect.

>>51373363
>Inhumans vs sentinels

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>Setting is Transhumanism
>48 fucking flavors of humanity
>Erryone mah nigga
>No aliens, just different types of human and biotech animals, some of which are so different to baseline as to be alien minded so perfect excuse for 'Star Trek' aliens and earth-like ecosystems all over
>Rampant expansionism due to out of control seeder ships means that humanities expansion is exponential and explorers just keep discovering new worlds that have had life dropped on them and left to their own devices
>No unsubtle HURR, WHAT IS IT TO BE A MAN type themes, just based space niggas being excellent to one another
Truly, best setting

>>51375803
It was explicitly about giving humans a hat other than "the normal guy", though.
The only way you wouldn't know this is if you were not here when it first happened.
This stance is further backed by how you seem to be adopting some sort of tribal stance instead of discussing the issue.

>>51373458

You, sir, are not well read.

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>>51373363
Hey guess what.
I wanna play as hexxus SUPER BAD.
No game lets me, though.

>>51381634
I would enjoy playing/running this.

>>51384774
I really love FernGully. No joke.

>>51384857
Check out Energeos if you can still find anything for it online.

>>51384926
>Check out Energeos if you can still find anything for it online.
All I can find is a couple of posts talking about it on /tg/.

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>X vs Y
>Someone is """""objectively""""" right

>>51381634
So, is that organism an article of clothing or a person or both?

>>51384923
Fern gully was great, but it added to my "the villains always are way cooler and have a much better time" mentality.

Now, as an adult, I fucking love polluting because everyone doing it, be it from captain planet or fern gully, is having a great time and getting super rich.

>>51384967
Maybe contact the author if you can find him? He joined the military and might have died, though.

>>51384704
>It was explicitly about giving humans a hat other than "the normal guy", though.

That's just about never been the scenario though. Humans as the baseline doesn't necessarily mean they're "normal" (especially because normal is relative), and more importantly they tend to have a degree of versatility that makes them either the strongest or one of the strongest playable races.

What most game designers don't do is try to define humanity with narrow and naive definitions, which is a common and embarrassing symptom of HFY.
And, there's never been an "explicit" HFY purpose, with different people arguing different reasons, each more inane than the last. Ultimately, it's just a purposeless writing prompt for people who have warped perceptions, somehow believing that the most victorious and popular race in fiction both isn't interesting enough or doesn't win enough, so they tackle that imaginary issue by writing terrible fiction with humanity succeeding by exaggerated aspects poorly understood by the writer that are then treated as the sole defining features of a race not quite so easily defined.

HFY is like a bizarre way to willfully make yourself stupid, to stop looking at stories in any terms beyond "are the humans winning or losing?" Even attempts to break away from this crippling question just end up going the long route back to it, because HFY has always only ever been a terrible joke made to address a non-issue.

>>51385966
>That's never the scenario though
>most game designers make humans the baseline versatile guys

You literally are agreeing with them RIGHT NOW and you don't even know it.

>>51373363
>What are the settings where humans, who can't even decide themselves which side they are on in even the most basic political questions, are on the virtuous side
Gee, I wonder. Maybe some kind of grand utopia where everyone is a clone of Bob the fiscally conservative everyman from Michigan.

In grand Bobtopia, humans are on the side of virtue, because every human is fiscally conservative Bob.

>>51386070
>baseline versatile
>boring normal

You seem stupid. The baseline is because something needs to be the baseline, and humans are chosen because they're not only the only real race so we actually have a frame of reference, but they're also the race we should be innately familiar with. Having Elves have +2 vision and humans +0 is no different from having humans have -2 vision and elves +0 instead. "Normal" is relative, and treating humans as the outlier serves no purpose for a game.

Versatile is far from being boring, and is in fact what enables humans to be the key to many of the more interesting character types. Beyond being the most popular race in every edition of D&D and just about every other game as well, they also tend to be one of the stronger races, and this "versatility" is the core of that.

To not understand this, and to complain about how the designers didn't decide to try and hamfist a "all humans are X" definition onto them, is being stupid and upset for all the wrong reasons. Everyone defines humans differently, from person to person, and the "versatility" allowed by the designers is so that each person can come to their own individual conclusions without trying to force their personal definitions on anyone else.

No human enjoys another human telling them that they can define humans better than they can.

>>51386324
>There needs to be a baseline, so we always choose humans
Yes, that is their point, and the thing they disliked.

>>51386324
>>51386369
Humans being the boring versatile ones is sort of super played out.
As is us being the diplomatic ones.

Just make the Human vs Android thing like any real life revolution, the sides may not be "wrong" but they are total assholes to each other and from an outside point of view both are unlikeable cunts.

>>51386369
>the thing they dislike is the thing that makes sense and has no reason to be disliked except due to warped perceptions

It's like you're trying to be stupid.

>>51386405
What part of what was written didn't seem to get through to you? It's not "played out", it's what makes sense. It's like trying to say that humans being human is played out, which is largely why most HFY stories aren't about humans, but bizarre caricatures of humanity created by people with very little sense looking through distorted lenses.

Humans are not boring. Their "versatility" allows people to personally define humans for themselves without forcing their ideas on people anyone who would disagree because they value different traits.

You need to stop treating your own personal mental hangups as having any basis. Calling humans boring because they serve as the baseline is forgetting that these are the same humans that the HFY idiots worship (when they're not inventing new races of "Humans except they're defined by a single trait and that results in something completely alien but I'm going to call it human anyway").

>>51386923
Since you seem to be so hung up about humans being "versatile", what's your opinion of human groups that aren't portrayed in that way, but only due to backstory about said group, such as political beliefs or past incidents? Most HFY stories that are good usually have this kind of approach, and distinctly make this clear.

Diff anon btw

>>51387057
"Versatile" is the wrong word. "Resistant to Singular Definition" is more appropriate.

>>51386923
>>51387114
So, are you being stupid on purpose about how someone might get tired of humans being the default versatile guys?
Because it seems like you are.

>>51386923
But humans shouldn't be the versatile guy if aliens exist.
Each should be good and bad at things due to natural species differences.
Them being the versatile guys is a lazy shorthand used by people who don't want to actually think hard about aliens.

>>51387181
What part of my explanation seems to have failed to enter your brain? You would need to be dumb on purpose, because "default versatile" is what I'm explaining isn't what they are, it's just a failure of your perception.

>>51387213
Regardless of what aliens appear, it makes sense to first compare them using humans as the baseline. How many times does this need to be explained to you.

>>51387264
How many times do you need it explained that regarding humans as a baseline is an error in perception, and they will most likely have traits unique to them like aliens do?
It seems your petty grudges are getting in the way of your capacity to understand these things.

>>51381634
>No unsubtle HURR, WHAT IS IT TO BE A MAN type themes,
You are the cancer that is killing science-fiction.

>>51373363
>when you realize that nature vs. technology is actually about whether to crudely remain with a dim and slow-burning light, or expire in a magnificent and fiery spark

>>51373458
the matrix

>>51374682

Close, but no cigar.

>Technology is considered right because with it lies the key to preserve the universe, and without its presence nature will eventually be subsumed by entropy and forgotten

>Nature vs technology story
>'Antagonist' is the Earth's will made manifest or some shit
>Shows up to wipe out humans because they 'are a disease to the planet and nature itself'
>Never once is it touched on the fact that humans are a part of nature, and any other species, if they had reached human's heights, would do the exact same, all for growth of the species.

>>51381634
That would be loads of fun, but I feel without some conflict their wont be much plot. Unless its something along the lines of
"Our Gorrilla Uplift niggas on Taris IV are all out of space bananas. The Tropical world of Nu Caledonia has plenty, but the local Mer people have relinquished technology for a more basic way of life, and have no means of transporting their abundant space bananas."

>>51387284
What part of you thinks that humans as the baseline is a universal statement, you absolute, irredeemable, aliens-can-use-your-personal-level-of-intelligence-as-the-verifiable-nadir-of-all-species idiot?

It's just for the sake of convenience and for use as a starting point. And, if you think that a trait humans have would be unique, what you're simultaneously describing is aliens who are unique for lacking those traits. In fact, from any sensible perspective, the latter is essentially the more interesting thing you are describing, and yet you somehow think that you are making humans the ones that are more interesting. Ultimately, we are familiar with humans, and at the point where you exaggerate a trait we possess to the point where you think you can write a story about it, you've exaggerated it to the point where the humans are barely recognizable as being humans.

You can't tell me "Look how special humans are! We have two eyes, when those aliens have one hundred!" and then expect me to want to ignore the hundred-eyed alien just because you're upset because you think that no one appreciates how great having two eyes is. We do. Most of us have two eyes. We don't need to be conquering galaxies because we have two eyes for us to understand that two eyes are neat.

>>51388029
>It's just for the sake of convenience because we are lazy
Yeah, that's what they've been saying. It's lazy and boring.

>>51388029
Anon, you're the only one going on about conquering galaxies.
other people are going on about how humans should be markedly different than aliens, and not the bland versatile guy or diplomatic guy.
There's probably an alien out there WAY better at being versatile or diplomatic.

>>51388029
I don't think you have a single statement about this topic that isn't made of strawmen from one end of the spectrum of a genre you claim to dislike and want to destroy.

I hope this isn't another one of those "If I like it, it's not the genre I don't like" scenarios like that asshole was doing with steampunk.

>>51388049
Holy fuck, you're a moron.

This isn't about being lazy, it's about being intelligent.

You're the kind of guy who, when presented with a simple and elegant method, decides that instead you will choose a pointlessly roundabout that accomplishes less, produces worse, and only succeeds in satisfying you and your ego because you value that far above what you value sense and reason.

There's no reason to dislike humans as the baseline if you have a basic understanding of why humans are the baseline, and how a baseline is simply a matter of perspective.

>>51388067
>other people are going on about how humans should be markedly different than aliens, and not the bland versatile guy or diplomatic guy.

You mean aliens should be markedly different from humans.

And no one said anything about bland. And rather than versatile, resistant to singular definition.

>>51388091
Please, don't call HFY a genre. It's a dumb writing prompt at best, and you need to be a special kind of idiot to think that constitutes a genre.

>>51388091
Try reading for once. There's a fair amount of statements there you seem to refuse to allow to sink in.

Here. Let me highlight some important passages for you.

>And, if you think that a trait humans have would be unique, what you're simultaneously describing is aliens who are unique for lacking those traits.

>Ultimately, we are familiar with humans, and at the point where you exaggerate a trait we possess to the point where you think you can write a story about it, you've exaggerated it to the point where the humans are barely recognizable as being humans.

>>51388174
Those points don't really hold any weight, anon.
>>51388133
>It's not bland, I just refuse to try to accurately gauge what they are good at because it will offend somebody. I don't care how boring that is

That's pretty much the entire argument here.

>>51388122
Anon, understanding why they are the baseline doesn't make it less boring, overplayed, and lame. Your argument is based entirely around the idea that it's impossible for someone to get bored of a thing if they understand it.
>>51388144
It's a genre now. It's even got dedicated haters and everything.

>modern /tg/ shits on things it used to like because it is full of hipsters and no oldfags
>hipsters can't even recall the correct order of events, but argue until they are blue in the face anyway based on strange impressions and incorrect timelines
How "cringey"

>>51388939
Stop being willfully stupid, anon.

>it's bland because I say humans being humans is bland

Humans are not changed in the translation into statistics. They have their full capabilities and moreso.

You call it boring, because, once again, you are an utter moron who fails to understand that what we're talking about is a matter of perspective, something you fail to wrap your head around no matter how many times its repeated to you, you dense fuck.

You want to define humanity. You want it to be the X race or the Y race, when all you are doing is creating and defining fictional races by what they lack, and stupidly thinking that you are doing something novel when you're just going about the process ass backwards.

Also, it's not a matter of offending anyone. It's a matter of you trying to tell people they need to accept your version of humanity when they happen to be human too.

Tell me, how long have you been this stupid? This is some particularly ingrained stupidity that seems to be coming from you.

>>51389107
>It's boring because you're stupid, you couldn't possibly understand the reasons why people do it and then still find it boring even though they do it every single time
You've hit full retard, anon.

>>51388972
>Anon, understanding why they are the baseline doesn't make it less boring, overplayed, and lame.

Try understanding it first before you decide its "boring, overplayed, and lame." It sounds like you actually may be too stupid to understand why it's done, even when it's explained to you.

You genuinely seem like a moron, because this is not a matter of it being boring, this is it being a matter of not being stupid. The alternatives presented range from the dumbest ideas ever conceived to naive essays written by people who should be the last to consider themselves spokespeople of the human race.

>>51389107
>It's not a matter of offending people, it's a matter of offending people
>>51389054
Hipsterism apparently rots the mind.

>>51389127
>people do something smart
>that's boring

No, you're stupid.

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>>51373363
Humanity isn't meant to have certain powers...

>>51389158
>>51389151
>You can't be bored of the thing I like and do every single time, you must not understand it, you're dumb!
Full retard achieved.

>>51389154
>i don't understand basic language

Do you even understand the futility of trying to convince another human that you are more of an expert on being human than they are? Or are you permanently dumb?

>>51375144
I feel like Morpheus' VR PowerPoint implied that humans messed it up it in the original movie.

>>51389186
>unable to understand logical consequences
Everyone needs to be convinced of and like what you are doing! You don't want to offend anybody!

>>51389179
>bored of doing the smart thing

Yes, you are dumb. You call it boring because you don't understand why people do it, even though it's been explained to you.

People do it all the time because it's the right way to do it. Being upset about that is being upset that people aren't more wrong like you, you living testament of abject failure.

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>>51374583
>android rights
>ultimately for the betterment of humans

>>51389215
>you can't get bored of smart things
>It's smart because I say so
>It's smart because it's popular
Every single portion of your statement is full retard and indicates a basic misunderstanding of life.
You may actually be a robot.

>>51373363

Humans are shit. Especially you.

>>51389229
>>51389215
Man imagine a race where something being smart actually makes it not boring.
They'd be fucking titans of invention, assuming they ever finished accumulating all knowledge.

>>51389214
Who are you trying to convince then? What exactly are you doing, beyond masturbating to the sound of your own voice? I'm pretty sure you've long ago decided to abandon basic communication skills, but it's absolutely bizarre that you've forgotten even a basic purpose of communication.

If you are telling people "Humans are X" and they have no reason to ever agree with you because only an idiot would present those kinds of limits to humanity, why do you keep trying to tell people "Humans are X"?

Rhetoric question, don't bother flapping your lips any more.

>>51389255
Eh, they'd have a disadvantage of actually inventing stuff, because a lot of invention is doing dumb things for smart reasons.
You need dumb smart people for invention.
Like the sophons.

>>51389265
>All fiction exists to convince people of something because I am unable to imagine fiction that does not have some kind of political authorial intent
I think this guy is breaking down, he's getting more and more detached from reality.

>>51389229
I've explained why people do it, why it's smart, and why it's popular.

So shut up already, you retard.
You're bored? Of what essentially amounts to "You can define humans as whatever you personally want without imposing that everyone agrees with you", or, effectively infinite definitions without pretension?

Eat a dick, you dumb faggot. Choke on it, and maybe that will cure you of your boredom of other people not being an idiot like you.

>>51389268
>>51389255
Yeah, they'd be more some kind of weird archival race.
Actually, probably the kind of thing one of the stupid smart races would make.

>>51389285
>strawmanning

Guess you're done here, you moron. You've been strawmannning quite a bit, but at this point, you're not even trying to pretend to be anywhere close to what I'm saying.

Quit being retarded already, you dumb fuck.

>>51389302
>you are stupid for being bored of this thing that is done over and over!
>you insist everyone agrees with you whenever you write a thing!
Man, that second one is such an absurd strawman.
What kind of guy thinks every bit of fiction exists to convince people of things?

>>51389319
>I didn't say that
funny, because you did in
>>51389302
>>51389265
For some reason the idea of convincing people that this work of fiction is true is super important to you, going by your posts.

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>>51373363
What bothers me more is that nature only seems to ever come up in opposition to technology, so it's really a plot that's stuck in sci-fi, cyberpunk, or post-apoc stories.

You could argue fantasy includes it against civilization, but that's more because natural things are considered part of disorder and chaos. Aside from token druids in adventuring parties and wood elves (which is a cliche that a lot of people see and avoid anyway), you never really get to see nature in a positive light, let alone as a major part of a campaign.

>>51389353
Nature sort of really sucks, though.
That makes it hard to portray it well in anything but the most optimistic of story.

>>51389326
How many times can "it's the right way to do it" not enter your thick skull?

Oh, I get it. You're just genuinely retarded.
You're going to keep doing things the wrong way no matter how people explain to you that your half-assed attempts at defining humanity are retarded and about as interesting as listening to people ask "what if humans stopped being humans but were still called humans" and none of them appreciating the irony.

>all this "humans are varied and undefinable!" shit running around the thread
Humans are easy to define.
They're those weird tribalistic monkey fucks who don't get tired fast.
Yall are crazy.

>>51379910
good argument friend

>>51389383
I dunno, they seem pretty interesting.
I mean you were interested enough in them to argue vehemently about them for, what, hours?
And interesting enough for people to be on the lookout for any mention of them in order to get into hours long arguments about it.
Say what you will, but calling them uninteresting is pretty self defeating.

>>51389414
The only interesting part is how stupid they have to be. You have to be pretty damn retarded.

>>51389383
>People can't get bored of things that I declare the right way to do it! That's impossible!
>>51389438
I think the problem here is you are too dumb to enjoy HFY. That explains your entire post chain.

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>>51389386
>Humans are easy to define. They're those plucked chicken–looking fucks with broad nails.

>>51389447
Yeah, you have to be pretty stupid to not see the enjoyable parts of HFY.
Doubly so to make claims about what people can get bored of. You can get bored of anything. The internet taught us that.

>>51389447
You wouldn't be "bored" if you understood what makes it not boring. Your own stupidity is at fault, because it was explained to you already, but you are just genuinely a moron.

Fuck, how dumb do you have to be to declare humans boring for no other reason than that their statistics and abilities are presented in a useful manner, and then say pigeon-holing would make them interesting?

You fucking moron.

>>51389470
that's more a physical definition than a niche definition, mr. ancient greek guy

>>51389480
Nah, people can get bored of anything, understanding or not.
I know you have this real solid objective opinion thing going on here, but people really can get bored of fucking anything.

Can't any of you niggers learn an insult besides "dumb," "stupid" or "retarded"?

English is a really great language for insults, if you're just willing to put the work in.

>>51389514
Apparently not, this guy's entire thesis is based on how you have to be dumb to not like his opinion.

>>51389470
Go to bed Diogenes, you are being mean.

>>51389497
Before you tell me of what people can find boring, try not being an idiot first.

You've literally got humans as is, and you say you're bored of that because the infinite exploration of what each of us defines as humans is apparently less exciting than "Humans being good at running long distances" or some other equally trivial shit like cooking or breathing oxygen.

You're not just an ordinary moron. You're a barely-fit-to-be-called-human moron.

>>51389514
Repetition is necessary for idiots of this level.
You have to call them an idiot a hundred times before they even consider the idea.

>>51389532
>You don't like my opinion, you must be stupid
>Only dumb people get bored!
God forbid someone enjoys the idea of humans being good at a thing.

>>51389542
see? What'd I say. He's got to call people dumb or else what he's saying falls apart.

>>51389548
>god forbid I be an idiot in the face of common sense and understanding

God forbid.

Stop being an idiot already, and do yourself a favor and actually read what the fuck I'm telling you instead of willfully ignoring it all just so you can maintain your stance of "Humans are boring because we're familiar with them and that upsets me because I can't comprehend that's not enough to make something as vast as the breadth of humanity boring."

You're bored because you're an idiot. That's what idiots get when faced with questions they can't comprehend. You need to simplify it down to your level, you moron, and that level is apparently "Humans need to be good at one thing, otherwise I'm bored."

Fuck, how dumb you must be.

>>51389542
I don't know which anon you are, or what side of the argument you're on, but I do know that you're a loud-mouthed wasting disease that should have been sprayed across your mother's face for an extra fifteen dollars. And what's more you're a dumb idiot retarded dumb stupid.

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>>51389514
>put the work in
>insulting strangers over the internet
Someone's feeling euphoric tonight.

>>51389574
>bitching about people willfully ignoring you while willfully ignoring the other argument for the entire duration of the conversation
Not once did you read the post you were responding to. It is a shame that your tribalistic bullshit is getting in the way of conversation here.

>>51389580
Your half-assed insults are embarrassing. You're really not as clever as you really wish you were.

>cyberpunk setting where the central theme isn't that humanities are using technology to be the same sorts of dicks to each other that they've always been

That's not fucking cyberpunk.

>>51389532
I think we're going to have people being tired of all that namby pamby infinite human possibility shit until after everyone who grew up with "everyone is special' schooling dies.
>>51389591
Man, that sailed right over your head.

>>51389366
But treemen and dryads and all sorts of mushroom and vine monsters and satyrs and stuff...

>>51389580
It's actually pretty amazing how cordial the pro HFY guys are being when faced with the anti-HFY guy's low level insults. I gotta give them a hand for being good sports about it even though the other guy is petulant as fuck.

>>51389597
It's not even infinite possibility. It's just trying to comprehend a question that has an answer that's more complex than "humans need to be good at one thing."

That answer has humans stop being humans.
And that makes it dumb.

>>51389616
>If humans happen to be good at something in comparison to aliens, they aren't human
>If a system uses some other race as the baseline and humans are a crazy outlier, the humans aren't actually human
I mean, yeah everyone has a right to an opinion, but yours is kind of crazy and exclusionary of all others.

>>51389615
Pat yourself on the back if you want, but you're just hoping that being a pussy is enough to hide how much of a dumb faggot you are.

Add that to the fact that you can't really call someone educating you on really basic shit an idiot without looking dumber in the exchange, and it's hardly worth jerking yourself like you are.

>>51389612
>nature forming cool things that we can talk to and interact with
>not just forming a million dickwasps to sting you and then fuck you
See, this is what I was talking about. You can only portray nature positively if you are super optimistic about it.

>>51389640
A nice round of facts and opinions would cheer you right up.

This thread makes me want a system where humans are the weirdos with all sorts of special rules required to play them, and everyone else is some kind of fucking crazy alien space monster.

>thread hijacked by antiHFY nofunallowed retard

Every time. Are you CTR or something?

>>51389726
That's just the power of easily triggered crazy people, anon.
They have no jobs and all day to go on about things they don't like.

>>51389667
Start building it. Hopefully, it'll be what finally makes you realize how stupid the idea is.

>>51389738
Man you a nut, anon.

>>51389667
My favorite version of that is in caves of qud, where the expected hero is a mutant with all sorts of powers.
An alternate hero type you can choose is pure human. No powers, but fucking huge stats. Because he's a genetically perfect uuberman.

Really split up the gameplay.

>>51389746
Go on. Maybe all you really needed was to actually try designing a system to really understand why people do the things they do.

>>51389733
Ugh. Can't he accept that people have different interpretations of humanity?

>>51389772
Caves of qud is sick. I always play extreme egomancers with light manipulation. Miiiind lasers!

>>51389615
No one here is pro-HFY. They're pro-the original concept which inspired it, giving humans a recognizable niche in a setting the way most aliens have one, which is a far cry from the rotting pile that HFY is.

>>51389640
>>51389890
Go, shoo. This is /tg/, not /b/.

>>51389890
You've got no grace, buck.

>>51389901
Those are clearly two different people.

>>51389915
He didn't say they were.
Are you?

>>51389254
And if you think getting rid of them will change everything, bad news. Everyone else is just as bad, if not worse.

Spell LIVE backwards and you get EVIL. Coincidence, or a subtle hint that life itself was a mistake?

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Which is actually cooler, technology or nature?

>>51373458
BSG

>>51381634
Check out the "Fragged Empire" system. It's baseline setting is pretty close to this.

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>>51389984
Why not both?

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>>51389984
I gotta say technology.

Even though the real answer is artificially generated nature.

>>51374533
Pretty much this. OP was dumb for looking for clear "virtue" in cyberpunk.

There's plenty of sci-fi where humans are good, why specify cyberpunk?

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>stupid!
>dumb!
Learn some new words kids

>>51389910
You've got no style
You've got no grace
This Kong has got a funny face

It's almost like allegory helps us explore modern issues.

It's almost like not everybody wants to explore social issues with their leisure activities.

>>51373488
>
I would consider GK more a a WoD style urban horror. Also, I suspect the pace might pick up a little in light of recent events.

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>>51390205
>>51390235
Can we healthily resolve this difference of opinion?

>>51374783
I was in the very first HDY thread, from when we were all bitching about Avatar's magical alien Indians
I remember three stories from its earliest days: the one where we get our shit together but an alien RKV fucks our shit anyway and we go on hyper mode, one where aliens reach their moon and find a plaque placed there by a human welcoming them to space, and one where we're from spaces Bermuda Triangle and play up that angle to troll everyone.

>>51390262
NO

>>51380040
Didn't Megaman kind of end up like this?

>>51390343
yes, actually.
That's the final plot twist of megaman legends.

>>51390017
Okay, wtf is that?

>>51390528
Animation of a motor protein.

>>51373363
How would androids vs nature look like?

>>51390604
Studio Ghibli films and half the Xbox/GC/PS2 JRPG's that ever came out.

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>>51373363
If you want a HUMANITY FUCK YEAH setting then cyberpunk is one of the worst places to look. Ambiguous morality is practically a staple of the genre.

As for settings that hold humanity in high regard compared to everything else literally any setting with an alien invasion of some sort will do.

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>>51373363
I'd like to fuck over the Ranger and the Druid, say "to hell with this tree hugging bullshit!" and join with the technologists.

Fun fact: Nature doesn't give a shit of you life happily or die in agony shitting yourself to death. Therefore, the only logical end is fr humanity to embrace transhumanism, science and technology in the name of survival. Anything else is nothing but feelgood bullshit and stupidity.

>>51373363
>ctrl+f princess mononoke
>0 hits

I mean it's not a perfect example, but I can't think of anything closer. The technology side in the movie see all the creatures of the forest as demons, which to be fair it hosts a LOT of them. The strength of nature seems to be fading with the advancement of guns and other tech, but not all is lost. A few guardians still remain that understand the well being that the spirits of nature are supposed to provide. Caught in the middle of the fight is the protagonist- a man cursed by evil and charged with healing himself and ultimately saving his home.

>>51390741
I thought the protagonist was a teenage girl who rides gliders better than everyone else.

>>51390759
Different film by the same company.
Incidentally also a story of nature and machine, but far more one sided.

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>>51387790
I'd love to see this though if humans who started living like Australopithecines were spared by the "Earth's Will" creature(s). Sort of like how in Predator the alien would only kill you if you were armed. Then it becomes a question of "is losing everything that makes us human worth avoiding extinction?" That's a genuinely interesting question.

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>>51389470
Humans are easy to define. They're those guys who fuck everything but don't like being naked for some reason. They fucked the sky once or twice.

>>51389642
>>51389366
Well nature includes crops to eat, animals to hunt and air, water, wood and stone to build homes and pretty much everything else we need. And it's not like this stuff is super hard to get, most of it is just lying around.

It just happens that we aren't the only ones occupying "nature." It doesn't centre around us but that's a pretty shitty reason to put it down as evil.

>>51391031
I'm not putting it down as evil.
I'm putting it down as AWFUL.
Slight but very important difference.

>>51379819
>Why not give the androids a biological upgrade and make them techno-organic?

Because that's my fetish.

>>51389890

I'm pro-HFY. It's a decent trope, people just get too upset that's it's open for anyone to contribute to.

>>51373363
Modern urban liberalism is a religion. Environmentalism is its original sin, and transhumanism is its rapture.

>>51391664
>trope

It's not a trope though.

It's not anything except people saying "Oh, humans win? Yeah, that's HFY."

People try to define it, try to give it purpose, try to formalize it give it some semblance of structure, but at the end of the day the stories themselves are just human wank, and anything it's supposed to address is a non-issue.

You can try to claim it's not shit or that its a trope or genre, but the stories assembled in the HFY collections themselves say otherwise.

>>51392263

Yes, it is a trope. Look up what trope means.

But I do like that you try to define what it is, and then try to say people aren't allowed to try to define what it is. So allow me to say HFY is just a trope that allows for a different point of view on something humans generally take as mundane. You may not like it, or even agree with it, but it hardly matters.

>humans need a specific niche!
>no they don't
>yes they do, otherwise they're boring
>that's not true, humans are the most popular race likely because they don't have a predefined niche and they can vary greatly from character to character

>no they are boring
>what niche then
>what
>what niche should humans have that isn't a terrible idea
>well, anything I suggest is just going to be picked apart because humans are not homogenous and there's wildly varying opinions as to what defines us, so any answer is weak and only provides enough for a "what if?" question. "What if humans were the [blank] race?" really can't go very far because it's imposing a cultural limitation on humans that isn't sustainable for any prolonged examination, and any answer I gave you would just be argued against because likely the only way I could even try to define humanity is by presenting invented races to serve as anti-humans

>so, what niche?
>I don't need a specific answer, I can change it however I want
>so humans don't need a specific niche
>but they do, because otherwise they're boring

>>51392314
The stories don't match your definition. You can't say "HFY is this pointless personal definition that excludes the majority of the stories written for HFY" and then expect anyone to accept it. You can pretend that it's one of the professed purposes of HFY, but it falls apart under any scrutiny and fails as any major definition.

>>51392451

Name one HFY story that doesn't match the definition. Go ahead.

>>51392523
Even the infamous "humans breathe oxygen" story doesn't match your definition, because it's less about allowing a different point of view on the mundane, and more about masturbating to the insignificant.

You can try to use euphemisms, but there's no exploration, only exaltation, in the most cringe-inducing manner just short of the aliens deciding to give humanity a collective blowjob at the end.

>>51392603

>Even the infamous "humans breathe oxygen" story doesn't match your definition, because it's less about allowing a different point of view on the mundane, and more about masturbating to the insignificant.

So you picked one that perfectly matched what I was saying, and then just went "nuh uh, I don't like it". It's still about us taking being able to breathe oxygen and making it something we take for granted.

>You can try to use euphemisms, but there's no exploration, only exaltation, in the most cringe-inducing manner just short of the aliens deciding to give humanity a collective blowjob at the end.

Still waiting for you to give an example that doesn't match my definition. Go ahead, you get another chance.

>>51392687
You missed the point. Your definition ignores that it's less about simply viewing a lesser trait in a new perspective, because that would include negative approaches. Your definition is barely half-true, because it serves only as a lip-service front to the actual underlying purpose, an ultimately mindless exaltation of Humans, with your personal definition falling into "masturbate to the most banal shit."

It's called Humanity Fuck Yeah, not "making mountains out of humanity's molehills."

>>51392914

>says a definition doesn't apply to the stories
>can't find one example to prove he's right so says the definition now isn't valid

Whatever, you got called out. Take it like a man.

>>51392959
>doesn't understand what someone told him
>still persists

Why. I just have to repeat what was already said, just for you to repeat the cycle of either feigned or genuine ignorance.

>>51373363
>what are some cyberpunk settings where humans are on the side of virtue and the other guys are just assholes?
Blade Runner. The movie can be interpreted to have the androids in a more positive light, but in the book they are more explicitly assholes.

>>51393075

No, no, don't squirm. You said, and I quote:

>The stories don't match your definition.

Now, when I asked you to give one example, just one little example to back up the certainty you had, you couldn't do it. Instead, you decided to try to reject the definition, and I quote:

>Your definition ignores that it's less about simply viewing a lesser trait in a new perspective, because that would include negative approaches. Your definition is barely half-true, because it serves only as a lip-service front to the actual underlying purpose, an ultimately mindless exaltation of Humans, with your personal definition falling into "masturbate to the most banal shit."

So we went from my definition not matching the stories (even though they do), to now my definition is invalid because they cover the stories too well.

Take. It. Like. A. Man. Bite down on the pillow and just stop struggling.

>>51373363
> Technology vs nature
In such cases PCs create biotech horrors and confilct sides are either erased or unite to fight them.

>>51393127
They don't match your definition, because your definition is neither all-encompassing, nor the shared core, and ultimately frivolous and disimgenuos. Dolling it up doesn't change that, no more than calling genocide "population-control."

I don't understand how something can be explained and resisted so fervently. It's like you don't like the taste of knowledge.

So, treat this like bitter medicine, and take these truths like a man.

HFY is kind of a DUMB concept because it tries to take humanity as a hivemind where at best everyone seems to have the qualities of whoever is authoring it.

Example humans like to fuck and the story is about how humanity conquered everything by fucking things into oblivion sexually. Except watch our birth rates shatter right now.

Or humanity as being incredibly resilient, fearless, and fighting to the last drop of blood yet we have enough people just freezing whenever there is a murder going on nearby with all their survival instincts getting shut down, or soldiers dropping down and thinking they are done for the moment their vest gets hit by a bullet that didn't penetrate and at most bruised some ribs.

In the end it's stupid since humanity has a gigantic political and moral spectrum and believe different things. It just ends up glorifying some kind of image of perfect human you had in your head as the pinnacle of humanity, which is stupid.

>>51393221

>They don't match your definition

Go ahead, find one example then. That or shut the fuck up with your whining. It's pathetic.

>>51393253
>humans like to fuck
> Except watch our birth rates shatter right now.
Dude condoms exist. Humans don't like paying money for children they didn't intend on having.

>>51393285
This goes much further. Japan has their virginity meter leaning to kissless even more with this generation.

Millennials as a whole are the generations to have the least amount of sex comparably. You could argue some but there is enough humans that just seem indifferent to sex with their own species. Saying we're all gonna fuck weird aliens is kind of strange.

>>51393316
I personally, wish to fuck a weird alien.

>>51393356
Get in the van weirdo

>>51389993
In the original BSG, the humans are the good guys. In the reboot, everybody is terrible, but the cylons are arguably worse than the humans.

>>51393278
I gave you an example already, it's just that you've failed at basic comprehension.

Calling the theme of Humans Breath Oxygen "different point of view on something humans generally take as mundane" is no different from saying "decapitation is a headache cure" or "water is toxic".

In fact, beyond the central theme of masturbation, the story revolves around presenting oxygen as poisonous and dangerous. We've got two layers of "missing the point" going on here, and you are still insisting on your disingenuous definition.

Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe you. As a human, I would be embarrassed to call your ilk kin.

>>51393463

>still can't prove his point
>getting all buttflustered

ONE EXAMPLE
N
E

E
X
A
M
P
L
E

>>51393492
>if I ignore his point, I win!

What a fucking loser you must be.

>>51393517

One example.

>>51393532

>>51393463

>>51393517
One example.

It's cowardly and shows a lack of integrity to make accusations without proof. Provide one example.

>>51393576
Thats disimgenous

>>51393576

Unos examplos.

>>51393590
Ignoring proof is ten times more cowardly.

>>51393624

Provide proof, then. One example.

>>51393658

>>51393463

We can do this all day, except you look dumber each time.

>>51393673

And you look more like a cunt. One example, just to prove yourself right. Go on, do it.

>>51393690
Learn to read.

>>51393463

>>51393750

Fine, I'll tear your shit apart if you really insist on it:

>I gave you an example already, it's just that you've failed at basic comprehension.

The example fits my definition perfectly.

>Calling the theme of Humans Breath Oxygen "different point of view on something humans generally take as mundane" is no different from saying "decapitation is a headache cure" or "water is toxic".

Completely redundant and irrelevant.

>In fact, beyond the central theme of masturbation, the story revolves around presenting oxygen as poisonous and dangerous. We've got two layers of "missing the point" going on here, and you are still insisting on your disingenuous definition.

The "story" is that aliens find us terrifying because we breathe something considered poisonous to them, while we don't even think of it. It's exactly something "that allows for a different point of view on something humans generally take as mundane".

>Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe you. As a human, I would be embarrassed to call your ilk kin.

More foot-stamping tantrums from you to distract from the fact you have fuck all to disprove me with.

Now that's done, back on with the show: ONE EXAMPLE, YOU THICK FUCK.

>>51393807
>Completely redundant and irrelevant.

Not at all.
In fact, it the crux of why your definition is irrelevant and meaningless.

So, we're back to square one, with you being stupid, your definition pointless, and missing what makes HFY HFY.

>>51393826

Why can't you find one example that disproves me? One example.

>>51393839
Sure thing.

>>51393463

>>51393871

Already refuted. Give me one example.

>>51393881
>refuted

You mean you tried to dismiss the central argument as irrelevant because you couldn't refute it.

>>51393910

No, that's you just trying to avoid responsibility for your own failure. This is what you said:

>The stories don't match your definition.

I've asked you to provide one example. You've been unable to.

So, where's an example?

>>51393937
>I've asked you to provide one example. You've been unable to.

Except you're ignoring this.
>>51393463

In fact, you've gone so far as to read it, read the central argument, and then deliberately say "No, please, don't argue that, please don't bring that up, I literally can't handle that."

>>51393966

I'm ignoring nothing. The example you gave perfectly matches my definition.

>a trope that allows for a different point of view on something humans generally take as mundane
>aliens view oxygen as a poison and humans don't, which scares aliens

Now, if my definition is so wrong, you should be able to find dozens of examples disproving me. I'm only asking for one.

>>51393999
Calling the theme of Humans Breath Oxygen "different point of view on something humans generally take as mundane" is no different from saying "decapitation is a headache cure" or "water is toxic".
In fact, beyond the central theme of masturbation, the story revolves around presenting oxygen as poisonous and dangerous. We've got two layers of "missing the point" going on here, and you are still insisting on your disingenuous definition.
Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe you. As a human, I would be embarrassed to call your ilk kin.

>>51394017

Already refuted here >>51393807

One example.

>>51394032
>refuted

You mean you tried to dismiss the central argument as irrelevant because you couldn't refute it.

>>51393316
Probably because courtship is costly and people are beginning to realize they can do things besides have children. Probably a bit of a population scare too.

Though obviously this will vary by part of the world too.

>>51394043

Your central argument is that the HFY stories don't match my definition, and we've already established the oxygen breather ones fits. So go ahead, find me one example.

>>51394087
Calling the theme of Humans Breath Oxygen "different point of view on something humans generally take as mundane" is no different from saying "decapitation is a headache cure" or "water is toxic".

In fact, beyond the central theme of masturbation, the story revolves around presenting oxygen as poisonous and dangerous. We've got two layers of "missing the point" going on here, and you are still insisting on your disingenuous definition.
Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe you. As a human, I would be embarrassed to call your ilk kin.

>>51394098

Either re-write your shitty post to make sense to this imaginary point you insist you've made (despite it clearly being that the HFY stories don't match my definition, which has no proof so far), or accept it's been refuted.

Now where's my one example?

>>51394126
Or, you can try reading it once. Or, at least stop pretending to be as stupid as you seem to be.
Like I said earlier, you being stupid this long just makes you look dumber.

Apparently, there's not even any room for you to argue, Mr. "I-reject-any-point-that-I-can't-refute." I can understand why you've given up and are hoping to move past the point that unravels your everything.

>>51394188

So now you can't even clarify this point you've apparently made and I've apparently missed? Makes me think you never had one and it's all been a weak attempt to deflect. It didn't work, though did it.

One example.

>>51394203
>now you can't even clarify this point you've apparently made and I've apparently missed?

Here, let me help you out.
>Calling the theme of Humans Breath Oxygen "different point of view on something humans generally take as mundane" is no different from saying "decapitation is a headache cure" or "water is toxic".
In fact, beyond the central theme of masturbation, the story revolves around presenting oxygen as poisonous and dangerous. We've got two layers of "missing the point" going on here, and you are still insisting on your disingenuous definition.

You've got the choice of either continuing to pretend to be stupid, or give up, because there's nothing here that's particularly hard to grasp. But, here's a last bit of help. Like I said earlier, you might as well be calling genocide "population control." Your definition is so far off the actual mark, it's embarrassing for you to even try to present it.

Again, you're not re-writing your point to make any sense. Right now, all you're offering is something I've already refuted. I'll even do it again, just you it gets into your thick head.

>Calling the theme of Humans Breath Oxygen "different point of view on something humans generally take as mundane" is no different from saying "decapitation is a headache cure" or "water is toxic".

Completely irrelevant and redundant. Obviously humans breath oxygen fits my definition because it is aliens seeing humans as frightening over something we see as mundane. The decapitation and water bit is nonsensical and if you really think that's an argument, you're a moron.

>In fact, beyond the central theme of masturbation, the story revolves around presenting oxygen as poisonous and dangerous. We've got two layers of "missing the point" going on here, and you are still insisting on your disingenuous definition.

It's very clearly taking something we find mundane and looking at it from a different viewpoint. The exact same as my definition. How are you so retarded not to see that?

>You've got the choice of either continuing to pretend to be stupid,

Which isn't the case.

>or give up,

Nah, not when I've got you by the balls.

>because there's nothing here that's particularly hard to grasp.

Other than why you can't see how wrong you are. One example and you can't even do that.

>But, here's a last bit of help. Like I said earlier, you might as well be calling genocide "population control."

Another completely irrelevant strawman. If you want to argue analogies, you need to get ones that fit.

>Your definition is so far off the actual mark, it's embarrassing for you to even try to present it.

And yet you can't refute it with a single example.

One fucking example, you stupid cunt.

>>51394334
You might as well be trying to argue that what defines HFY is assembling letters in long sequences. You're ignoring the point even when it's explained twenty times already.

>And yet you can't refute it with a single example.

Already did, it's just you refuse to actually listen to what's being told to you.

>>51394334
>The decapitation and water bit is nonsensical and if you really think that's an argument, you're a moron.

>the point
>your head

>>51394394

>You might as well be trying to argue that what defines HFY is assembling letters in long sequences. You're ignoring the point even when it's explained twenty times already.

So your other point (which I already made clear ages ago here >>51393127) is that my definition is now far too broad, even though you started by saying it was just incorrect?

That point is fucking nonsensical. It means absolutely nothing. HFY is about taking the mundane and seeing it from an alien perspective. If you can disprove that with an example, go ahead and fucking do it. If you can't, fuck off and take your "oh but it covers all the examples too well so it doesn't count" with you.

>Already did, it's just you refuse to actually listen to what's being told to you.

Humans breathe oxygen is the perfect example to prove my definition. The fact you keep referring to that makes me realize you're actually a cripple.

>>51394454
>HFY is about taking the mundane and seeing it from an alien perspective.

Except you're missing the point with that useless definition. Keep in mind that most HFY is very far from the "mundane", exaggerating traits like exceptional mindless bloodlust or sexual prowess. More importantly, it's not about looking at them in an alien perspective, but to congratulate humans for possessing that trait. We're not saying "look how disgusting humans are for breathing poison", it's "Holy shit, they breathe rocket fuel, they're the badasses of the universe."

The example presented shatters your definition. This has been explained fifty times now.
Are you still going to pretend to be stupid?

>>51394499

>Except you're missing the point with that useless definition.

You mean the definition you can't refute.

>Keep in mind that most HFY is very far from the "mundane", exaggerating traits like exceptional mindless bloodlust or sexual prowess.

Nope, they're all mundane for us in comparison to how the alien sees them.

>More importantly, it's not about looking at them in an alien perspective, but to congratulate humans for possessing that trait.

But we are looking at them from an alien perspective.

>We're not saying "look how disgusting humans are for breathing poison", it's "Holy shit, they breathe rocket fuel, they're the badasses of the universe."

My definition says nothing about it needing to be disgusting.

>The example presented shatters your definition.

Not even slightly. It seems you just don't understand what the definition is, despite basic English.

>This has been explained fifty times now.

Nope. You repeatedly referred back to a single refuted post with a couple of irrelevant strawmen. No clarification, just repeated insistence that your pointless post was being overlooked, despite it having nothing to overlook to begin with.

>Are you still going to pretend to be stupid?

The only one being stupid here is you, but you aren't pretending. You tried to claim the HFY stories didn't fit my definition, but couldn't come up with a single example. Now you're trying to argue that my definition is both wrong still (despite no examples to counter it) AND that it's too broad to work. It's one or the other, retard.

Pick either argument you're trying to make, you still need to provide one fucking example of a HFY story that disproves my definition.

>>51394570
>You mean the definition you can't refute.

Too late, already did.

A hundred times now.
You're looking to be told a thousand times or something?

>You tried to claim the HFY stories didn't fit my definition, but couldn't come up with a single example.

You keep saying this, only to repeat the same cycle of having your definition thrown out the window with an example that shatters it. Again and again, what a glutton for punishment you must be.

But, that's enough. You're clearly going to keep asking for examples while ignoring the ones that refute you, so I'm going to go ahead and give you one last "I can't believe you are actually this stupid, you can't even stop and say 'I was just pretending' at this point."

>>51394653

One fucking example. Do it, cunt.

>>51394665
>>51394653

So this is what it looks like when two autists meet in the wild. It's like watching chatbots talk at one another.

>>51394665
Okie-doke.

>>51393463

Example provided.
I accept your resignation.

>>51394732

Humans breathe oxygen was already shown to match my definition. Try again. If you can't link anything beyond that same refuted post, you willingly admit defeat.

One example.

>>51394750
Tell me more about how genocide is population control.

You are literally too stupid. You are immune to intelligence treatments. You are cancer in ignorance form.

>>51394803

One example.

>>51394810
You got it, boss.

>>51393463

Example provided. For the thousandth time.
I accept your resignation.

>>51394853

Linked back to the same old refuted post that only provides an example that matches my definition. Thanks for willingly accepting your defeat, even if it took you all this time to realize it.

>>51394879
>refuted

Ha.
And look, you're still trying to ignore the central point.

What a moron you must be. One million times, and still nothing enters your empty skull.

You're incurably stupid.

>>51394945

One example, or you admitted defeat. You couldn't do the former, so you did the latter. Don't get salty about it now, cupcake. You lost and your little mind just couldn't handle it.

>>51394965
>one example

Already provided, and thus, you lose by your own admission. Glad this is finally settled.

Let me beat you to the punch.

>refuted
You just ignored it.
>one example
Already provided.

And, your loss, once again.

>>51395014

Aww, he still thinks his "example" did anything more than reinforce my definition. Poor bab, even after he gave up, he still can't work out why he lost.

You know what the worst thing for you is, though? The memory of this. Whenever you see a HFY story, and the whole alien perspective on a mundane thing, you're going to remember this. You're going to remember me forcing your face down into that pillow and just fucking you senseless.

I'm sorry for that, but you really should've been smarter and just accepted you were wrong right from the off, instead of arguing with irrelevant and pointless shitposts. Too bad, cupcake.

>>51395055
>Aww, he still thinks his "example" did anything more than reinforce my definition

You need to be one idiot to think that, when I explained how it unravels your purposeless definition.

And, done.

>>51395072

And the bab keeps going! He's rung the bell but he's still swinging at a shadow. He couldn't offer up a counter-argument, so he sat linking the same old tired post that had absolutely fuck all in it. It's like watching a hobo who believe his empty beer bottle still has stuff in it.

Wake the fuck up, you delusional cunt. The sooner you accept you got fucked, the better you'll feel.

>>51395055
> the whole alien perspective on a mundane thing,

If this is true, what if I write a story where humans suck because of something mundane?

>>51395104
>giving up like this

Kind of sad. You type a lot worse than you think you do.

Thanks for the win though. Kind of sad to see you reduced to this though, but hey, you brought it on yourself by choosing to be stupid.

>>51395104
>losing this hard

Give it up. You got your example, ages ago. Now, with your mental exercises spent, it's time for you to stop posting.

>>51395120

It'd still be good. Imagine a story where humans are too fat to float like the aliens can, so they end up being mole-like people who fight from underground, where they can catch the floaty aliens easier?

>>51395137

And the memory of his fucking haunts him still! He's like a masochist that can't work out the safe word.

>>51395155
This is getting too sad. You're almost too pathetic to be real.

>>51395153

He still thinks his "example" didn't fit my definition perfectly. He's so precious.

>>51395164

You just can't stop yourself, can you? It's upset you that much that you lost. Just calm yourself down, son, and wind your neck in.

>>51395164
Just leave him alone. He's not well.

>>51395195

>replying to himself

Hey, knucklefuck, I can see posters haven't increased since we started all this. Don't try to act like anyone would be stupid enough to back you up.

Don't do it. Just ignore him. I think this guy is legitimately sick.

>>51395267

Do you not understand where the poster number is? I can see it's clearly you, you fucktard.

Hey fuckfaces. You're not winning any prizes or praise for this. You are both losers.

>>51395331

Here's your (You).

File: HFN.png (41KB, 1327x400px)

41KB, 1327x400px

You know, I'm not a big fan of the humans/technology/nature conflict THING you see a lot of in fiction, but a lot of the reactions to it are fucking textbook examples of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

How about this, you're all fucking morons who can't get over the thought that someone has different tastes than you.

>>51395546
No, one is a brain-damaged baby that can't stop mouthshitting over the fact that his mindless masturbatory fantasies are being critically examined and keeps shoving his head further and further up his own ass to hide from the obvious, and the rest of us think that shit tastes like shit.

It's like the mentality he excretes into his HFY wankfests is the same one he uses in day-to-day life: smearing his shit all over the walls and being proud of it.

>>51392398
Humans don't need the same niche in every story.
Humans might work well as generalists in baseline fantasy stock because humans are the point of entry for the reader.

In other stories, it might be better to choose aspects to emphasize that make humans a good foil for whatever else there is.
For example, first contact stories either make humans less advanced (there's a reason they found us) or more advanced (same reasoning flipped). While it's more typical for humans to find the artifacts of extinct aliens, there's no real reason why you couldn't write a story about a federation of unique aliens finding the remnants of human civilization.

HFY still usually sucks, mind. But "humans should always be X" is a shit alternative.

>>51375106
it's a robot who's gay for a shadow and has a cyberarm and also is maybe the prophet for a new religion for robots centred around a strongly psychic teenaged machine savant

who is a lesbian

>>51379910
well he made a declarative statement

go home boys, it's over, he's won everything forever

>>51385016
yes

he's a friend who likes being a cape

but he's a squid

>>51395770
Your autism and self loathing are showing, anon.

>>51396115
I thought the robot had a wood arm?

>>51396146
>My bro, I have decided to dedicate my life to making you look stylish as fuck.

>>51390235
It's almost like leisure activities are embedded in a social context that will exist no matter how much one tries to ignore it.

>>51373488
lol they look like Bratz

>>51394725
Chatbots are at least interesting from a PolSci perspective. This is just...

Embarrassing? I feel like embarrassing is the right starting point but it isn't all encompassing enough...

>>51396176
Cid the Squid was well liked at parties for a reason

Would that we could all be as excellent as Cid

>>51396150
He did (and may still do? I can't quite remember) but he now also has a bio-mimetic arm which is some next gen cybernetic shit

>>51395482
I don't understand what that expression means in this context.

>>51396648
i think he means to imply that the story in the screencap he posted is bad, and that stories like it (reactions against HFY stupidity) are bad

>>51396893
>>51396648
Oh no, it's kinda the other way around. I'm annoyed with the brand of HFY that desperately tries to glorify even the flaws in humanity. You know, the kind that says things like "pollution is just nature failing to fight back".

You see the same with people who, rather than try to reach an agreement with druids over the acceptable amount of logging/hunting, would instead burn down the forest. Because sustainability is for people who hate themselves, I guess.

>>51397314
>with the brand of HFY that desperately tries to glorify even the flaws in humanity.

You mean HFY.

>>51397314
fair

>>51373363
The green text has reminded me of the Eternal Earth setting. My reaction was roughly that of the OP image.

For those unaware: It was a setting wherein historically Earth was once inhabited by both humans and Furries (I think you can already guess where this is going). Humans were generally roaming around breaking shit and tweaking their mustaches, while Furries were doing awesome things as individuals such as Beowulf and Zeus (shit you not the lore states them to have been fuzzy fleabags). Shit eventually gets so bad with humans breaking shit that the Furries are evacuated into a pocket dimension so that humanity is by itself. Of course as a result we make Robots so that we can have someone to oppress still in the time until we nuke ourselves to death / leave Earth an uninhabitable toxic wasteland. The gods come back shortly afterwards, fix everything (but keep the humans gone), bring back all the Furries they temporarily displaced along with some good Demons and Vampires that they spared (but not humans, they were all bad!) and reward the remaining Robots with souls for everything they suffered at humanity's hands / being so kind to the Furries after they returned.

I had pushed this from my mind for several years you fuck.

>>51397378
I get what he's saying.

It's one thing to go 'humanity is pretty great, look at what we could accomplish compared to some other races. Despite our flaws, we're not worse than the special aliens we keep seeing.'

It's another thing to go 'humanity has no flaws, any bad thing that we do is going to help in the long run because we're just that special. Everyone else cannot deal with how great humanity is, they're baffled by sheer awesomeness.'

>>51397745
>It's one thing to go 'humanity is pretty great, look at what we could accomplish compared to some other races. Despite our flaws, we're not worse than the special aliens we keep seeing.'

Which is as far from HFY as you can be while still liking humans.
It's essentially "Humanity's Not Bad", the sort of thing that most people who hate HFY can agree with.

>>51397745
How often do you genuinly see that last thing in HFY threads? I mean really.
Often it's about something like humans being really great cooks or something.
Anti-HFY faggotry is just contrarianism.

>>51397955
I was about to say the former is effectively nonexistant, because even when humans are simply cooks, they are cooks so good that aliens fear and respect them to the point of mindless adoration.

HFY is always about silly extremes with no sense of balance, because for humans to be just good cooks isn't enough for humans to be glorified.

HFY faggotry is just.. faggotry.

>>51390017
Is that a virus that is moving via a protein chain? Can they do that

File: dancing abominations.gif (922KB, 500x263px) Image search: [Google]

922KB, 500x263px

Clearly nature and technology should work together against the insidious shape-shifting agents of madness and oblivion.

I mean, just look at this sick display of their false humanoid forms!

>>51399175
right so i know the middle one's nyarlathotep, and the one on the right's probably Hastur or the King in Yellow because yellow hair

who's the ABOMINATION on the left?

>>51398211

That's a myosin protein dragging endorphins to a receptor. You're literally watching happiness.

>>51400388
Fated to watch, and never to feel.

;_;

>pop in to thread hoping to talk about OP topic
>Anti HFY autists get triggered, proceed to shitpost for over 12 hours
holy shit

>>51400944
it's pretty impressive

>>51400944
>HFYfag gets told
>can't let it go

Sad.

>>51401520
As an impartial observer, I gotta say the anti-HFY folks got blown out so hard this thread I am considering that they might be HFY folks or trolls false flagging.

>>51401569
>As an impartial observer, I have to give victory to the shitters who spent the entire thread spamming U MAD while ignoring obvious facts even when they're explained to them repeatedly.
No wonder you'd like to think "they" are all false flags.

File: 1441225971832.gif (2MB, 200x167px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 200x167px

>>51400944
So you're just popping into the thread to go 'wow this side won' instead of trying some last ditch discussing? Makes it almost seem like you're biased instead of coming in late and without reading through anything.

>>51401569
I don't know what thread you read, but I'd like to know how you're posting from an alternate and much better universe where rhetoric wasn't a dead artform and teeg wasn't just spergs

angry, angry spergs

>>51401569
>impartial observer

Sure. Like I said,
>HFYfag gets told
>can't let it go

Sad.

>>51401938
>>51402138
see, real anti HFY fags wouldn't melt down this hard.
That's how you can tell it's HFY fags trying to make anti-HFY fags look bad.

>>51402177
>someone doesn't like your bullshit
>"lol u mad, u triggered, u retarded baby, u super duper pwned" (repeat for several dozen posts)

The HFY's master pwnage plan in a nutshell.

File: confused anime girl.gif (1MB, 430x360px)

1MB, 430x360px

>>51400944
>made this thread because I was bored on a Tuesday night
>contribute nothing to the thread besides the OP
>two days later the thread has hit bump limit because people hate the opinions of others
I shouldn't have come here

>>51402225
Real anti-HFY fags also wouldn't act like petulant little children like this, especially if they thought they won.
I mean, this is some straight up /b/ tier shit.

>>51402247
/tg/ has way too many badwrong fun board policemen. They derail every third thread with meaningless shitstorms.
It sort of makes this place way worse for actually discussing things. Most discussion occurs in generals these days as a result.

>>51395770

The little spastic is still upset he lost and couldn't come up with one example.

>>51402248
>>51402269
>lol u mad, u triggered, u retarded baby, u super duper pwned
This nutshell is bigger than I thought.

That's to be expected, of course. HFY is basically a self-congratulatory love song to random and mundane things about humanity, so it's no surprise that its supporters would proudly boast about their misbehavior as if it were some sort of ultimate victory.

>>51401938
>>51402083
>>51402138

All this samefagging.

>>51402324
>complains about being insulted when his entire argument up until now has been insults
So, troll confirmed?
Shit, I was hoping that you were legitimate in your beliefs, and not just trying to start a ruckus.

>>51402266
This has been a growing problem on /tg/ for a while now.
There's not much that can be done about it, sadly. Not even bans work on them, in this age of easy evasion.

>>51402366
>complains about being insulted when his entire argument up until now has been insults
That's you. All you've done is claim victory and spew fountains of insults while ignoring (or denying without logic) what people are actually saying to you.

>>51402410
You sort of lost any ground to stand on there when you went on a tirade about how you have to call people stupid and are unable to let things go.

>>51402434
...he spewed, ignoring what the post he's insulting actually says.

>>51402448
...he spewed, ignoring what the post he's insulting actually says.

>>51402463
No, I did the exact opposite of that and described it accurately as another example of you spewing insults and ignoring what people are actually saying.

Of course, if you're already ignoring what I'm saying then you're likely to baselessly accuse me of doing the same, not caring that your actual behavior is what's being described.

>>51402498
...he spewed, ignoring what the post he's insulting actually says.