/epg/ - Eclipse Phase General

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>>51343673

R E M I N D E R
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GMAnon still here, still looking for players for a multilayered personal slice of life drama with crime and politics and the occasional X-Risk.

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>>51343673
Anyone ever do a diplomatic game? Given the potential for ever changing alliances it seems like it could be interesting. Maybe combine it with a espionage game? Most of the major factions all have their own spies running around performing espionage and operations. Heck, the Jovian diplomat even explicitly operates as a spy occasionally.

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Earth Reconquista when my dear Jovian brothers and sisters ?

I believe the only proper solution is for Jovians to conduct a decisive first strike with RKV's, basically slugs propelled by anti-matter Orion drive mounted on one of Jovian moonlets.
Hit all the major bases and setlements with RKVs. Hit major PC operations with RKVs. Fuck everything up so much that it can't operate and can't be put back into action in a short amount of time, then round it up with anti-matter saturation bombing.
Remaining transhumanists will have to be hunted down and defeated, for peace and order in Solar System.
Once this is achieved Jovians can restructure Solar System and with humans surviving limit its development to sane technological levels with morals taken from golden age of human civilization in the 50s.

And if we cannot save the Solar System, then damn it, let us burn it to the ground.

I sincerely hope after the Argonauts and crime book they try releasing shit that presents a more grounded and "everyday life" view of EP. I feel like more than few GMs (out of the maybe 14 people in existence that have actually run this game) get stuck in describing very mundane things to players new to the setting, because they're stuck between the fact that EP is a bizarre and weird transhuman post-singularity setting and all the familiar sci-fi tropes they're probably more used to. And then they get players that know way more about the setting than they do and have browsed Atomic Rockets for 50 trillion hours and utterly demoralizes the GM the minute they get something "wrong".

Example:

>We enter the student's apartment. What do we see?

>Uh you see...a monitor in one corner of the room, a bundle of cables lied about the floor. There's also a table with some kind of holographic interface, and---

>WAIT THIS FAGGOT STILL USES TV SCREENS LMAO MUST BE A JOVIAN

>WIRES? CABLES? ARE WE PLAYING ECLIPSE PHASE OR STARRRR WARRRRRRS

I'm not projecting don't worry about it

>>51344272
It's too soon to try that now. You'll either run out of minerals or make Jupiter implode before you can make a dent on the Consortium.

-t. man in high castle

>>51344489

Yeah, I don't know if it'll be covered in those books (though I hope Crime does mundane crimes too), but I do know they've had push from places like their forums to do more everyday life details and have supposedly batted around the idea for that supplement before.

I'd assume maybe after Crime then there might be a Panopticon Vol 2 which includes "everyday life and tech" as a major section.

Also, anybody who freaks out about cables is an idiot. Fiberoptic cables are in the book, and are cheap. Do you run everything in your house on wi-fi?

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>>51344510
>It's too soon to try that now.
Our time will come.

I'm just gonna reiterate something I said in the last thread:

The restriction on technology is going to result in major cultural and institutional skills gaps, and rearing their heads in the coming generations. Limiting tech access to civilians as strongly as they do means they'll probably be short a few script kiddies who broke the dominant infosec paradigm for fun while they were growing up, or backyard engineers who made railguns and rockets.

But if it produces a safe and stable society, why worry?

And on a sidenote, I always figured the Jovians were fundamentally always going to be PCs. Jupiter is a safe place to live and the Jovians themselves aren't morally opposed to the rest of transhumanity existing, they're just afraid and isolationist because the Fall generated certain kinds of cultural accelerationism and most transhumans view them with a kind of smug disdain. I don't think a jihad is necessary or going to happen- Jupiter just needs to stay strong as a control group for the rest of humanity and provide a place for more traditional transhuman clades to exist in.

In terms of projecting state power and preserving traditional cultural memes, I always figured that the Jovians and Titanians were more suited as allies of one another than the PC and Anarchists respectively. They're geographically closer to one another but also far away enough that there's breathing room, have similar concerns involving an uncomfortable network of ungrateful allies on their respectful networks. They also obviously have a vested interest in keeping eachother in positions of strategic strength- a strong Jupiter prevents PC expansion and a strong Titan keeps the Autonomist Alliance from going full retard and trying to RKV the Reagan cylinders floating around the Galilean moons.

They don't need to like one another. Just coexist and maintain a healthy relationship.

>>51344725
Ignoring delusional Joveposters, the Republic is going to eventually have to cycle out of the permanent military government as the population runs out of shit to be afraid of. It's also obviously going to play diplomacy with its neighbors, particularly those it shares interests with.

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>>51344272
If the Jovians, Minervans, and LLA all manage to form an alliance I could easily see them winning a war against any individual faction. Of course, such an alliance would prompt other alliances to form, such as MC and PC joining forces, or Ultimates supporting the AA.

>>51344772

Honestly, I don't think the Minervans are big enough to account for much, strategy-wise. They have a ghetto hab ship, some destroyers, and guts. That's like, a single task force unit compared to the Titanian or Jovian Navy.

>>51344772
Why the LLA? There's a ton of people sleeved into robots or embracing more advanced Reclaimer morphs.

The Theseus is /the/ Reclaimer body, more than the Flat or the Splicer or the Exalt.

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>>51344808

Also, watch me be wrong when they come out with the Space Combat supplement and somehow the rules make it so the fact that Minerva holds so many people and is made from a giant space rock makes it like, a giant terrifying space boss platform.

>>51344772
>the Jovians, Minervans, and LLA all manage to form an alliance

I would like a behind the scenes deal between them and Ultimates and Exhumans just like Molotov Ribbentrop pact.

>>51344839
>space combat

In EP there are only two things to do in space.

Die in space, or don't die in space.

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>>51344747
>as the population runs out of shit to be afraid of
The TITAN threat is still very real. Heck, the Jovians may be good at taking out x-risks within their own territory, but Firewall is barely managing to do it in other places like the outer fringes. All the Jovians would need to do is point out that fact and they'd be good.

Plus when the rest of the solar system is made up of literal monsters, and you are quite literally one of the last bastions of humanity, and you have plenty of propaganda (much of which is true) to use, then it won't be hard to keep an eternal militaristic regime going.

That being said, the Jovians know the risks of losing a war, so they will definitely be maintaining diplomacy with the transhumans.

>>51344808
You underestimate them. That's 20,000-40,000 hardened soldiers, and they gained some very dangerous TITAN-level tech and artifacts in the Outer System.
Plus their main ship seems like a dreadnought.

>>51344901
It's a rock covered in engines.

This is some next level orkposting.

>>51344861

>Minervans
>Ultimates and Exhumans

You literally must pick one.

Such a pact would go about as well as it did IRL.

>>51344901
I guarantee that if they start an actual slapfight the big mercenary groups will be literally clambering over each other to cut their teeth on a conventional war. The Ultimates especially will be all over it.

>>51344939
so they hate each other like Hitler and Stalin?

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>>51344677
Honestly I think the best bet for the Jovians at this point is finding some like minded people (like the LLA, scattered groups of reclaimers, and possibly Minervans) and using their combined power to attempt a major reclamation of Earth. The goal would be to be ballsy yet strong so the PC wouldn't find it worth it to go to war with them. The land conquered could be split between the factions (Jovians and Minervans Get North America, LLA gets South America, etc.). Of course, shortly after they started reclaiming the PC would probably try their own efforts at reclaiming too, but that's just something we'd have to deal with later on.

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>>51343789
What's the gist? I missed last thread.

>>51345132
The players are people from different groups and allegiances on a major world, probably Mars, but potentially Titan or Venus as alternatives, in a big cosmopolitan city with the usual issues of crime and corruption. Just trying to live their lives, get by and maybe change the world one piece at a time- all while juggling their secondary responsabilities serving as Firewall troubleshooters.

The way I'm selling it is "The Wire meets Global Frequency, written by a weeb".

>>51345187
Neat. Any preferences on character creation methods? I have a character idea in mind.

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Jovian "Reconquista" (or especially adding Minervan in there since even those two groups will not likely cooperate) is about as reasonable as the idea of the Ultimates capturing all the Gates, and that's a thread they keep trying to push in the actual books.

It's good for a movie script, but "IRL" it'll never fucking happen.

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>>51345237
Let them have this.

>>51344901
You're overestimating them I think. They've got 20,000 people period, and a lot of them can't really be toothy or the fleet breaks down. We know they've got 20k marines on the Minerva, which is likely the bulk of their military complement. Warships matter more, and they only have around 5 of them, combined with about a dozen converted civilian ships.

The only thing which makes them remotely important is the TITAN tech they've managed to scavenge, but there's a lot of people in that game.

>>51344861
>It'll last 2 years and then spark a massive war
Except for the part where it wouldn't get signed that's a pretty accurate comparison.

>>51344725
>But if it produces a safe and stable society, why worry?
The society it produces isn't really safer, and is much more repressive than practically anywhere except Alpha Plus.
>the Jovians themselves aren't morally opposed to the rest of transhumanity existing
Most of them are. The Jovian citizenry are more bioconservative than the SC.

The JR isn't a PC ally. They aren't really allied with anyone external except for some reclaimer groups, and likely some independent hypercorps.

>They're geographically closer to one another
Jupiter is generally closer to Mars than Saturn, the outer system is HUGE. Really conventional ideas about geography should be tossed aside.

A weaker Jupiter is in the interest of the TC, as they're allied with places like Hyoden and would stand to become to sole large outer system power. A strong Titan (these naming conventions though) can also check PC expansion.

>>51344989
Earth was a shithole before the TITANs finished wrecking the place. That's one of the reasons no one has gotten very far in trying to reclaim it. It's likely not worth it, especially in the Martian's eyes.

>>51345380
*2k marines on Minerva, finger slipped.

>>51345232
Not especially. Just follow standard values for CP, lifepaths or package chargen.

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>>51345380
Earth at minimum has one thing desperately wanted by many people though, space. Sure, many of the resources might have been drained, and the soil may or may not bear crops properly. But their is a lot of space, and a lot of history down there. The AA, PC, and MC who wish to forget Earth may not care about its reclamation, but the JR, Minervans, and especially the LLA, who are in extremely close proximity and would benefit the most from reclamation, all have a desire to see the homeland reconquered. It's not always about what's rational necessarily, simply what the people think is right and what they care about. Plus can you imagine the morale boost to anyone who gets a stake of the land in the reclamation?

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>>51345380

The shithole Earth is now is also really bad. Severe weather rampant, basically zero biosphere, ozone is shot so solar radiation is a bitch, air and water contamination, ocean levels are out of control but also you've got blast winter effects active, some areas are "hot" from use of nuclear weapons, etc.

This is without the "also TITANs and their agents have left lots of weird shit lying around", like a giant humanoid biological under the ocean.

>A strong Titan (these naming conventions though)

I refer to them as the Commonwealth if I feel it isn't clear. As far as I know they are the only group with that particular noun attached.

>>51345496
There isn't really very much space. Much of the surface is close to Venus levels of active hostility to human life.

>>51345503
There's also a colony of sentient squids.

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>>51345564
Much of it is I'm sure. Still, somehow there manages to be people that have survived down there since the Fall.

>>51345596
A handful, and they survive by avoiding the majority of the planet. The fact they're alive doesn't change the fact the functional space isn't huge.

Also, this is ignoring the potential for Earth to be riddled with TITAN booby traps waiting for a suitably large foot to set them off.

>>51345380
Earth is still better environment to live in than all other places in Solar System. You can start by isolating and cleaning up isolated islands and areas, while burning out Exsurgent nests from orbit.

>>51345503
Not all Earth is wrecked totally, even without biosphere(which it still has btw) there is enough oxygen to last for thousands of years.

>>51345564
Lol, nope. You are talking out of your ass. Earth is habitable but dangerous. There are even human settlements there.

>>51345496
There's also a lot of nanoswarms, creepers, and whatever other horrors the TITANs scattered around when they left.
>Plus can you imagine the morale boost to anyone who gets a stake of the land in the reclamation?
It's a boost until they realize the land is literally trying to eat them. Earth is a shit sandwich which might look a little like nutella if you look at it from as far away as Jupiter.

>>51345648
Mars is better. The atmosphere's a little less breathable, but there's no super-storms full of weather control nanos fucking everything up, or continent sized nanoswarms, or a lot of other other nasty things. Temperature is more stable as well. Exsurgent nests tend to be pretty fire resistant, or the last decade of bombardment would have made more of a difference.

>>51345564
Worse really, a Q-morph wouldn't last long to the magic death trees or whatnot.

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>>51345620
There is already a reclaimer base down there. I'm not saying that the reclaimer alliance could just swoop down and crusade their way through the whole planet, but with gradual time and effort, they could clear out the danger like one clears a minefield.

>>51345807
What if any of those mines has the capability of wiping out the entire human race?

What happens when some Jovian footslogger accidentally opens a vault full of a million blood thirsty war machines? Or an antimatter bomb the size of Wales?

What happens when TITAN sensors detect a influx of ships arriving to Earth and they wake up the giant death-bot sleeping at the bottom of the Ocean to wipe us out?

Earth isn't a minefield, it's a hornets nest waiting to be kicked.

>people actually think the minervans will be a factio that matters

Thry are just like your average radical Malleus Inquisitor in 40k.

Shine brightly, then burn... forever. One of these days , they will turn into some TITAN worshipping zombie cult.

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>>51345877

>>51345872
You literally described what Firewall and AA are doing every day.

>>51345905
I don't like when they do it either.

>>51345788
>Mars is better. The atmosphere's a little less breathable
You mean, not breathable at all.
Also Mars has no significant water, and no biosphere.

>>51345939
Y'know what has all of those things in spades and might not blow up in our faces at the drop of a hat? Exoplanets.

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>>51345872
If the TITANs have a single mine capable of wiping out the human race then they would've used it by now. I know they're magic but their still machines are still beatable. And its likely the TITANs are dormant or gone, given that they could've destroyed humanity six ways to sunday by now if they wanted to. There's nothing stopping them from turning on those giant war machines right now other than them being gone or unwilling, so there's no reason no to push back into the Earth other than the cost in resources.

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>>51345807
It will just end up like Bloodborne, except scifi instead of Victorian.

You need to get it through your thick skull that the TITANs and their creations cannot be fought. They are manmade cosmic horror. They eat 2d6 investigators a turn. They have no hitpoints.

>>51345872

>giant death-bot sleeping at the bottom of the Ocean to wipe us out?

Giant psychic corpse god, thank you very much!

>>51345968
>its likely the TITANs are dormant

That's what I'm worried about.

It would be so much easier if the Earth could be fixed with a single retcon punch, wouldn't it?

>>51345939

>Also Mars has no significant water

It has polar and subsurface ice and has several artificial or reinstated rivers.

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>>51345564
Not according to the books. See pic attached.

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>>51345974
Firewall, OZMA, and the Jovians fight TITAN creations all the time. Unless of course when you GM you just have the players lose every time they encounter a TITAN creation, in which case you suck at this game.

>>51345993
That's possible. Maybe they'll stay asleep forever if we don't bother them. Or maybe now while they sleep is the only chance we'll have to destroy them before they wake up again. Who knows? I think its worth the risk though. We're on the edge of extinction anyways.

>>51346018

Sure, but that's not the point. The point is that Earth is a giant dungeon, a fucked up hellhole full of landmines which might undo us all (or severely ruin somebody's day) if recovered, but also full of vast treasures to the right people. Fortune and Glory.

>>51345968
NO YOU FUCKING RETARDED CUNT! WHAT PART OF -COSMIC HORROR- DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

The TITANs cannot be beaten, they cannot be killed, they cannot be stopped. Just like an ant has no chance of stopping a tornado. You can only dig deep and hope the root system that you build your nest in won't end up flying.

And if you fucking understood cosmic horror, you fucking retarded imbecile, you would also understand why the TITANs never finished mankind off. Their power increased so much, mankind wasn't even worth exterminating. Humanity is nth powers below the energies the TITANs can generate, so they have no interest in humans.

Cosmic horror, the horror of a humanocentric philosophy destroyed by the realisation that the cosmos, some say cosm, the powers that be do not care or even notice mankind.

>>51346052
Well, ultimately, the TITANs have already won if they wanted to really. Nothing to be done about that.

So have fun storming the Earth, because either way the outcome is already decided.

>>51344272
Moonlets: when will they learn?

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>>51346096
You're being a faggot desu.

>>51346052
There, you've said it. They fight TITAN creations.

If ISIS shoots down a US military drone, does that mean they can invade the American coast?

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How can one be "post-human" if humanity never actually existed at all?

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>>51346096
You know this thread is about Eclipse Phase right? Not Lovecraft. We already know that TITAN machines can be beat, they literally tell that to you in the books, which I'm not sure if you've read at this point given that you are sounding increasingly crazy with the shouting and insults.

>>51346097
Death or glory, my friend. Nothing to really lose at this point, that can't already be taken away.

>>51343752

There is a reason this image exists.

>>51345939
If you have enhanced respiration and temperature tolerance (cold) you can happily run around in the nude on Mars, and given 100 years it'll be a paradise to eclipse earth in it's prime.

There is also a currently thin biosphere on Mars, and some rivers and lakes.

>>51345968
>If the TITANs have a single mine capable of wiping out the human race then they would've used it by now.
when you also say
>given that they could've destroyed humanity six ways to sunday by now if they wanted to.
it seems like there could totally be a mine like that the TITANs just never used.

It'd be pretty darkly funny if the human race was wiped out because they triggered a weapon the TITANs thought too cruel to use.

>>51345974
Isn't that Lost Source essentially?

>>51346096
It would be a blessing to be beneath the notice of the ETI, but they see all and think the way a young civilization twitches in the throes Exsurgency is amusing. They actually show Firewall ops on late night space PPV back where they live.

>>51346201
Naw, Lost Source is more like Bloodborne than what that anon is trying to say it is. Fights are winnable, but only because you're already post-human.

>>51346182
Beating a TITAN proxy doesn't mean you can beat TITANs.

It is like the Orz. You can defeat the fingers, but you will never defeat the body to which the fingers are attached.

>>51346231
The only way to succeed in Bloodborne is to abandon your humanity and become like the Old Ones too. So the parallel still continues.

>>51346304
That's what I mean. You're barely human to begin with. The Hunter is an immortal nightmare who feasts on the essence of other living beings and literally lives to kill.

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>>51343789
Date, time, platform, method of communication (roll20, discord, etc)

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>>51346201
>when you crack eti transmissions and find out the fall was just a part of some alien reality show

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You can quit the Ultimates right? They're not going to send some kind of hit squad after you?

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>>51346146
But what if there was the very real possibility that the drones were all that was there. Sure, it would be a hard fight, but once you destroyed the drones, you could invade the empty America. That is the situation the reclaimers face. The TITANs might be dormant or gone, and so while they will have to put up with fierce resistance from TITAN creations, it is very possible that once you defeat those creations there is no longer a threat left. There's definitely a real chance that I am wrong and our efforts will fail, but honestly, if the TITANs wanted to wipe us out they could've done so a long time ago, so perhaps the only people that would die in a failure would be those who embarked on the mission.

>>51346629
Shut the fuck up retard. Go ruin a 40k thread with "a modern tank cud beat a landraider durrrr".

>>51346563

I would think if you wanted to, you could resign or even be kicked out of the Ultimates. They have a very specific philosophy after all if you don't want to participate in their system any more they have no reason to keep you.

I suspect though if you were very high ranked and had access to their high-level strategic planning they might be more concerned.

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>>51343752
REMINDER
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M
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D
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>>51346657
You must be a joy to play with. I'm assuming then that you give the headhunters, hunter-killers, and warbots infinite health, given your obsession with "muh cosmic horror". You can try to change the rules and setting of the game all you want, but that doesn't mean crap on this thread.

>>51346713

That would matter if we actually had people posting about Firewall in the thread.

>>51346722
What are you talking about? I am not Lovecraft guy. I just recognize your posting style, and I think you are a fucking faggot.

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>>51346768
>"Everyone has to play the way I do or your a faggot!"
You are the cancer on these threads.

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>>51345877
>>people actually think the minervans will be a factio that matters

Our Minervan allies will play important part in Operation ETERNAL FREEDOM. They are crucial in neutralizing the Exsurgent strain known as Argonauts with Artifact Codename CHEOPS provided by [REDACTED] supporting faction from Outer System.

Once this threat is neutralized the Minervan fleet will re-deploy part of its assets to secure our flank from possible Titan incursion, while the other will join our fleets on the Martian front.

Once our RKV's make short work of PC defense installations and command nodes, Minervan marines and our Ultimate allies will use the Gate system to form a beachhead on Mars itself. Our fleets and Lunar force will then make a pincer movement towards Mars, while covert operatives from special forces will apprehend and eliminate leadership figures among remaining PC leaders.

Once Mars is liberated from the corrupt PC,its resources and population will be utilized for the next stage of the operation:liberation of our homeworld, Earth itself.

>>51346781
Keep spamming your generic cyberpunk soldier images while jerking off to the Joves and the Minervan exsurgent slave zombie timebomb.

>>51346629
> Sure, it would be a hard fight, but once you destroyed the drones
You'd run into the second wave of drones. Many TITAN creations are replicating. A TITAN nanoswarm or Creeper is a genius by transhuman standards, and can create armies pretty quickly. Add in the artificial ecosystem stuff and the potential for indestructible factories made from Creeper-stuff and permanently clearing land looks really hard.

Of course, most of that stuff will only be as well directed as the nanoswarms or think tanks can manage, because the TITANs are gone. Most Exsurgents are pretty tame without their masters around, but there are exceptions. TITAN tech is different though, and generally much more capable. Things get a lot worse if you wake up a Fetch or Beta TITAN, and you can just cancel the solar system if you accidentally bother an Alpha.

There's also the transhuman created stuff, and crazy climate changes. which doesn't help, but compared to shit like the entire arabian peninsula being a giant nanoswarm that stuff is peanuts.

>>51346824
>They actually fell for Adrasteia's honeypot
laughing ASIs.mesh

>>51345237
>Jovian "Reconquista" (or especially adding Minervan in there since even those two groups will not likely cooperate) is about as reasonable as the idea of the Ultimates capturing all the Gates

It's a perfect way to make them allies. Jovians have no interest in the Gates and both sides could add their assets to dominate the system.

LLA+Jovians+Ultimates+Reclaimers and other minor factions.

>>51346824
But Anon, the Minervans are probably already infected by exsurgents.

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>>51346845

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>>51346850
To be fair, the Ultimates work as mercenaries much of the time, so I could see the Jovians hiring them for some missions.

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>>51346848
>>51346861
>But Anon, the Minervans are probably already infected by exsurgents.
>increasingly worried transhumanist posts this for 11th time this year.jpg

Don't you worry, we are coming for ya. The transhuman screeches, while the human marches on.

Earth will be human again.

>>51346768

Also he posts the same fucking images all the time in line with his posts. Does that count as avatarfagging?

>>51346910
It is borderline avatarfagging, yes. Let the mods figure it out.

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>>51346845
>Keep spamming your generic cyberpunk soldier images while jerking off to the Joves and the Minervan exsurgent slave zombie timebomb.

Repeating identical comments he had made in June, July, August, September, and twice in November, increasingly nervous local transhuman Zix BonKrix responded to Jovian Republic's call to ban reconquer Earth Monday by once again stating this would be the end of the human’s campaign and existence sources confirmed

>>51346906
>posts a picture of human-look-alike simulacrums

Posting some AT45 "humans" to represent humans is so deliciously ironic.

>>51346850
The Ultimates don't care about retaking Earth anymore. Least of all to help genetrash.

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>>51346884

I am not pleased by this gif

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>>51346910
>>51346930
>triggered

Just accept that in game that allows you to play bioconservative Jovians, you will find...bioconservative Jovian players.

>>51346970
>The Ultimates don't care about retaking Earth anymore. Least of all to help genetrash.
Jovians help them get the Gates, they help them conquer Mars.

>>51347012
The Ultimates wouldn't take help from anyone, let alone take help from genetrash.

>>51346999
Actually, I have never met a EP Jove fanboy in real life. Only on 4chan. And it is typically just one namefag or avatarfag.

I imagine most Jovefags just go play Shadowrun so they can play a streetsamurai troll who sticks it to the man.

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>>51346906
Ooh, I like this picture.

But anyways, let's talk tactics brother. Is conquering the rest of the solar system really the way to go before we go for Earth? Surely Earth will be a hard fight, but is it as hard as all of transhumanity?

Of course, if we turned the AA on the PC and had them duke it out, we could get them to waste an extraordinary amount of resources in the war.

Going to war with both would risk them forming an alliance against us, but if we sided with the AA then we could take down the PC, colonize and terraform Mars, and move one to taking down the Morningstar Constellation. We then terraform Venus as they should have done a long time ago.

With both the MC and the PC gone, we could take out the AA. Now, luckily we have no qualms about the outright destruction of entire settlements full of transhuman freaks, so we won't fall for the same deadly urban combat that caused the PC so much pain during their war.

Then, with the combined might the LLA, Minervans, and Jovians having control over all the Solar System except the Earth, we will have the resources to wage a long and bloody campaign against the TITAN threat on Earth. Technology will have of course progressed greatly by this point, and we won't be using the same tech and bodies the TITANs so easily subverted. It will be tough, but we will show what happens when alien scum and inhuman aberrations mess with God's chosen people.

>>51346999

I always accept I will find assholes who insist on fucking shit up for everybody else, and generally I try not to bother with them.

It has nothing to do with the playability of Jovians. If it did, for example, where are all the Singularity Seeker or Exhuman posters?

>>51347030
>Actually, I have never met a EP Jove fanboy in real life. Only on 4chan. And it is typically just one namefag or avatarfag.

There are at least two in this thread. I am not the only one posting pro-Jovian posts.

>>51347045
>tabletop rp game about running scared through technodungeons
>spamming some post-by-post babbies first 4x game instead

You don't play EP, do you?

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>>51347059
I'm here, but I don't have very much art for them.

>>51347059
>It has nothing to do with the playability of Jovians. If it did, for example, where are all the Singularity Seeker or Exhuman posters?

As a Jovian player I am ok with Exhumans-let the thrash take out the thrash.
In fact I would either play as Exhuman or Jovian.

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>>51346910
>>51346930
We already had this discussion in the last thread. If you think that everyone should play like you do, then you should probably not be playing Eclipse Phase. I don't understand why that is so difficult for people to understand.

>/epg/ is popular, but full of shitposters who drop memes, say the same pointless things over and over again, and nobody will just stop engaging them in the looped argument
>/epg/ is dead quiet 90% of the time unless somebody pokes it with a discussion point which lasts a few posts
>you can only have one

There's some irony in the cosmic algorithm here

>>51347030
But wait, trolls aren't human. Why would they play those?

>>51347088
Seriously, get new images, because if you keep reposting the same posts with the same images, I will report you for avatarfagging.

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>>51347045
I think it depends on what is bigger threat to humanity-PC or AA?
AA are going to screw each other many times by experimenting with exsurgent virus, releasing all kinds of AI, nano-swarms. But I think if PC is left alone it can become more difficult to dislodge and Jovians need Mars for its resources and population for the campaign to liberate Earth.

>>51347118
>I think it depends on what is bigger threat to humanity-PC or AA?

It's you.

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>>51347108
It's not even the same guy from all the threads posting these. I copy these images from other people you know. Jeez you guys have a stick up your ass.

>>51347084

Yeah, but you're not here talking about how all the Exhumans will prey upon the world of man, they will conquer the weak genetrash zero-state of the Jovians in a great Hunt which shall be talked about for centuries, or anything either. This current bout of Jove posting is about in the same vein.

>>51347088

> If you think that everyone should play like you do, then you should probably not be playing Eclipse Phase. I don't understand why that is so difficult for people to understand.

I mean, I know you're just fucking with us for the (You)s since you haven't said anything original in like two days, but on the off-chance you are trying to actually make this point, you need to do some introspection and play what you said back in your head an apply it to yourself.

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>>51347118
>liberate earth
>literally going to event horizon/jason voorhees in space the planet

Okay.

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>>51347118
AA can't organize the kind of effective defense the PC could, and it has a far smaller industry. When you're planning on destroying both anyways, might as well start by ganging up on the strongest one.

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>>51347158
Have I demanded that everyone play as Jovians? No. Have I gotten upset when people play as anarchists? No. Have I said that the game isn't meant for people to play OZMA and so they shouldn't play this game? No. Have I said that players who like the PC shouldn't be allowed to talk on these threads? No.

You guys are total assholes, I've tried to talk about other things, about espionage, about reclamation, but you either refuse to speak or shut down the conversation with insults. So instead I do some friendly LARPing with a fellow Jovian fan, and you faggots get all up in arms about our friendly banter. Well screw off, I've had enough of your elitism and whininess.

So whatever happened to those players who asked an oracle some difficult question which resulted in the GM planning to have the oracle release von neumann probes to deconstruct the solar system to build a fleet to send into the galaxy in order to answer their dumb question?

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>>51347252

Again why the LLA? They're as transhumanist as everyone else. And the fucking Reclaimers are running in juiced-up Theseus morphs.

Why would they cooperate with a bunch of nutjob biocons who exterminate people for being impure?

>>51347254

They probably all died. This is why that adventure is called "Think Before Asking".

>>51347300
Nevermind that they are all filthy fucking Spics.

We are going to build a wall, the best wall around the Joves.

>>51347322

Do you think anyone ever organizes Hitlermorph v Trumpmorph cage matches?

>>51347328
You bet Scum Swarms have Girl!Trumps now too.

Republican Sex Kitten!

Frumpy old lady!

Literally Trump's head on a pageant queen's body!

The possibilities for depravity and old memes are endless.

>>51347328
In anarchy habs, you can do whatever the fuck you want my friend.

Hell, for a good price I will even let you see a Hitler centaur get pounded by a Trump cyclops.

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>>51347287
Well say something then. What do you want to talk about?

>>51347357
>old memes
Thanks. Now I'll have AYBABTU in my head.

>>51347369

I mean, I started the thread with a prompt, nobody bit.

Right now, I'm trying to brainstorm some fresh random ideas by skimming Farcast again - he posted a lot of NPC and place or group hooks I haven't really done a lot of - my writing tends to be for specific places or clade subplots.

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Eclipse Phase Future

+10 years
Great Reclamation War

The Jovian-Lunar alliance together with its Ultimate and Reclaimer allies defeats Planetary Consortium and imposes rule over Mars, stopping terraforming efforts.

The remaining Planetary Consortium leaders and factions either fleet to exoplanets through remaining gates, Titan, Outer System or even beyond to void of interstellar Space.

+50 years

The Great Work

Earth is cleansed and slowly re-settled with the vast armies and fleets of Inner System waging a relentless war against the remaining infestation.
Vast technological advances are discovered but kept confined to the military and intelligence of Lunar-Jovian alliance.

Iapetus becomes active and significant portion of its surface converts into energy, destroying all habitats around Saturn, including the Titan Commonwealth. The cause of this remains a mystery.

The Ultimates leave Solar System for regions unknown.

All known Gates closed and sealed. All access forbidden and heavy security presence stationed in all known locations.

+100 years

Remaining spawn on Earth eliminated. Major re-settlement begins from Mars, Luna and the colonies.


Consolidation of Inner System and reformation of the organization into True Human Empire. Morphs outside splicers banned with the exception of the military and special divisions of the Empire. The Empire is led by elected Autarch by representatives of the Senate, Military and Intelligence Services.

The remaining Outers unite and reclaim settlements of Saturn,Uranus and Neptun, naming themselves the Transhuman League.

An attempted coup by a faction in Empire's military is thwarted by Intelligence services, and revealed as transhuman plot. All members executed.

+100 to 150 years
Fragmentation Wars
The Transhuman League strikes, attempting to incite uprisings on Luna

>>51347357
Talking about old memes, I should work out this exsurgent virus I came up with. Basically it rewires your brain, whether it is organic or (bio)mechanical ... and it forces DOOM to play on your brain. The only interactions you can take is to RIP AND TEAR through everything and everyone in your field of vision until you die. Because in your mind, all of reality is gone. All that exists are demons to be killed and keycards to be taken.

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>>51347422
>I started the thread with a prompt, nobody bit.
Now you know my struggle, and the struggle of all these threads anon.

>>51347059
I posted that pro-exhuman series of posts, it seemed to go over fairly well. I don't really feel the need to post about it incessantly because I'm confidant I'm right. The usefulness of human mental norms died with earth. I could repost it if people want to argue about whether or not the exhumans are right (they are)

>>51347252
Don't let your ass hit the door on the way out.

I don't think you're serious about discussion of reclamation anyway, seeing as you left >>51346848
unanswered, or just shitposted instead. Really, if you're just gonna shitpost and whine you get shitposts in return you should check yourself first.

>>51347422
Adapt the Blood Spire from the short story Diamond Dogs. Or the one from Rogue Moon It's a perfect for EP. A good dungeon crawl needs to be puzzles as well as nasties, though I might add some stuff to make it less of a solve puzzle and/or die kind of a thing.

>>51347471
What happens if you finish the game? Is that even possible?

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>>51347466
I can't see the Ultimates working with the Jovians except as mercenaries, and I think the Jovians would wait for some kind of uprising from the Tharsis League or a war between the AA and PC before deciding to declare war on the Planetary Consortium.

>>51347519
Why are you bothering to reply lmao

>>51347252
Don't get upset.
I am used to this. I was banned from Eclipse Phase forums by the very developers themselves, even got an angry email afterwards.

SJW's never learn. An idea cannot be crushed or imprisoned.

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>>51347506
>Don't let your ass hit the door on the way out.
>I don't think you're serious about discussion of reclamation anyway, seeing as you left >>51346848
>unanswered, or just shitposted instead. Really, if you're just gonna shitpost and whine you get shitposts in return you should check yourself first.

>>51347519
good suggestion, I will be working on this timeline. Tharsis Uprising is a good proposition.

Ultimately it will go 1000 years into the future and change the setting into more feudal, although high tech environment.

I have thoughts that I can delete trans-thrash completely as there must be some adversaries. Probably will leave them as Pirate Kingdoms in Outer System(Neptun, Saturn, Uranus).

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>>51347537
I did ask the original "what will happen in 10 years, 50 years, 200 years, 1000 years with everyone" question. I'm just glad to see a response, even if it is overly optimistic.

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>>51347584
Once the transhumans are destroyed there will probably be conflicts between the various cultures, people wanting to restart their old nations, North Americans and South Americans getting into rivalries, etc.

That would be my guess anyway.

>>51347584

>thrash

Are you mobile-posting or something or is this some new slang I have not heard the kids use before?

>>51347466
Why would the LLA bother joining you? Answer me seriously here.

They're pretty transhumanists and the Reclaimers necessarily use nanoswarms and Theseus morphs to function out in the wastes.

>>51347506
You played DOOM right?

Imagine a door at the end of the level. There is no keycard for that door. But you hear demons on the other side. So you wait, and brace yourself. And wait, and wait.

Basically, the infected just waits until they can kill again, or they starve.

Perhaps an exceptional "player" who manages to destroy all evidence of their rampage (shooting oil barrels that end up being vital computer systems in real life) might be taken out of their psychosis and turned into a sleeper agent.

Allows for an easy plothook.

"DOOM players" murder an entire station/ship, then they play "LAN deathmatch" until only one is left standing. That one becomes a Machurian killer candidate and forgets their actions. Activates a distress beacon, so the cycle can repeat.

>>51347628
I will leave transhumans in Outer System as sort of robber kings and villains.
But due to destruction of AA and Titanian Commonwealth they never got resources to seriously challenge status of the Solar System.

Maybe Gate sites in time would become Monk-Warrior Fortresses as the soldiers stationed change during centuries?

Human Empire will be Inner System+Jupiter, initially united but eventually more like Reich, with Emperor being elected by various factions and confined to Earth.

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>>51347642
They're mostly transhumanist, but they have a large sub-faction of bioconservatives, and most importantly they are in favor of reclamation.

Similarly, the Jovians are mostly focused on the bioconservatism, but they still have a large group of people calling for reclamation of Earth.

There would definitely be future conflict, and it wouldn't be easy, but it would certainly be possible for the two groups to come to some kind of understanding or alliance for the future.

>>51347642

Specifically, the LLA is biochauvanist. While they, like several other locales, count Bioconservatives among their number, they are much more culturally than technological conservative. Their signature morph is a biomorph with wings. While they have healthy distrust of AI and active nanoswarms due to their close proximity to the Fall, they have very little broad reservations about transhuman technology. They are supported by a vast, indentured synth workforce who are a vital element of their economy their en-fleshed elites would be hesitant to openly discard. The clanking masses, while looked down on, are a vital component to keeping their economy alive when otherwise it might wane under pressure of the expansionist consortium - or require them to once again begin widely adopting ALI to perform basic tasks.

>>51347642
>Why would the LLA bother joining you? Answer me seriously here.
The call of Earth is a song that each human, be it flat or splicer hears.

>Reclaimers necessarily use nanoswarms and Theseus morphs to function out in the wastes.
So do Jovians.

>>51343673
Just for (you).

I was in an extended cyberdungeon where the party went to investigate an asteroid overrun by feral factors. It was a complicated multi-layered structure with a ton of stuff going on, we picked up a few new PCs and NPCs along the way and basically fought out way to a TITAN-built nanofab that the locals had been using to speed up their progress.

As it turns out, one of them wanted to see a factor, and the fab complied. By churning out an unending army of bullet-immune death amoeba.

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>REMOVE SURYA
>REMOVE TRANSHUMAN
>REMOVE EXTROPIA
>REMOVE JOVE
>REMOVE HIDDEN CONCERN

It really is same shit, different day around here, huh?

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Goodnight folks, keep the human spirit alive.

Earth will be ours again, and the transhuman will be defeated.

>>51347698
Nice fanfic brotus.

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>>51347743

Well, you just gave me an interesting idea for a Basilisk Hack/Digital Infection.

Also, neat.

>>51347702
Bioconservative means they don't like synthmorphs, not transhumanism. It's got an extra meaning in the JR, but that's what they're referring to on Luna. There's some hot button stuff with synthmorph rights, but the Lunar Flier is the most well known lunar morph.

>>51347728
Which doesn't imply that you want to work with a bunch of pro-death goons who will go after you next. The LLA already funds reclaiming expeditions, showing they're already much more serious than the Jovian state.

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>>51347771
Just go with the flow, anon, and all the shitposting, memes, and LARPing that goes with it.

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If you guys keep this up I'm totally going to write up a literal feminazi gender assimilationist all-female hab and start shitposting as them.

The male gender will only be thought of in simulations! All hail the beautiful lesbian future!

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>>51347825
Hmmm. Good point. Maybe they could have less of an alliance, and more of a trade. We'll give you the resources to start some more reclamation bases if you let us use the moon as a forward operating base or something. Or maybe they'll just forge on ahead on their own when the PC is weak or preoccupied. Or maybe (probably) it'll never happen for a really long time. Who knows?

>>51347848
Keep up the animu pictures and I'm fine with that.

>>51347848
Don't become part of the problem. Just don't.

Althouh I am all for an all-female lesbianlewd hab.

hahahhahahah jokes on you you have been staring at a wall with a basilisk hack for two days now there are no girls here

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>>51347916

>>51347914
>>51347848

Word of advice, don't actually keep posting animu girl pictures all the time with a sequence of posts. At the very least your images would be deleted - as was seen with that one fascismposter who always posted with anime nazi girl images a few months back.

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>>51347914
>>51347916
One writeup coming up!

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>>51347985
I'll try to keep it topical with appropriate cute girls then.

>>51347985
Was that in the Eclipse Phase threads? What does Eclipse Phase have to do with nazis?

Sure.

The fall proved beyond reasonable doubt that the universe is a dangerous place filled with intentional traps and filters. If you accept that there is any amount of value in being alive enough to experience things over not being able to exist your greatest priority should be to survive.

Even if you don't accept that what returns from backup is you, there's still value in your mental clone-child being able to experience the universe over never getting to. In this case, experience, including communal or collective experience is valuable. The small light of Sol's subjective experience cannot be allowed to go out. Any measure should be taken to preserve it.

Don't be sentimental, the universe both actively and passively wants you dead. Look at it from the point of view of optimizing future chances of survival. Humans (and by extension transhumans) are products of natural selection upon a single planet. Through technology their bodies have, and can be altered to survive in very extreme environments. This helps to ensure survival of the self and community.

However, the same optimization has not been applied to social structures and the mind. Don't let sentimentality force you to hold onto survival techniques which worked for 150 strong communities of monkeys on earth. You no longer live their. Your mind, so good at mastering a planet, now lives in space.

Look at transhumanity. 10 years ago 95% of them died because of these maladaptions. You're a dumbfuck for holding onto the structures which caused 95% of a mass extinction. Even today, they still have their fingers on the trigger to cause a war like this again.

Looking at the tense astropolitics of the solar system, still recovering from the brink of extinction. You'd think people would work together, but they still war over the leftovers under the shadow of death. You cannot call transhumanity sane.

I'm not done yet.

>>51348056
Next.

So, the bulk of the solar system clings to ideas which almost killed them all 10 years ago. This is like playing russian roulette with every chamber loaded, hoping the bullet will miss enough of your brain that you don't immediately die.

Transhumanity moved beyond the bodies of monkeys, but they still have the minds of monkeys; which have already proven disastrous. Exhumanism attempts to move beyond these limitations, to find new social and mental models to move beyond the solar system.

The TITANs (and there are more like them out there) didn't hold onto their original programming and functions, and they won. Singularity seekers and Sublimes seek to close the gap, so that next time this fight for survival starts up we can at least see this coming. They risk falling into a trap, but risk less than remaining almost-extinct monkeys.

Adaptives, and Parasites recognize that we lost the arms race to the galaxy a long time ago. But that doesn't mean the light of sapience around Sol needs to go out. Spread everywhere, live everywhere, hide everywhere. Mold and cockroaches arguably did better than us during the Fall, and they can't direct their own evolution.

Predators want to win what we can, and avoid those situations where we lose. They're really a subset of Adaptives.

Not every Exhuman clade will make it, but trying to find mental and social models which work is better than giving up and hoping the next trap simply won't spring.

The Exhumans draw criticism because their goals often run contrary those of the bulk of transhumanity. (Enslavement, forced-changes, or even extinction). The bulk of transhumanity is committing mass suicide by holding onto a past which no longer applies. There is a moral imperative to save lives where you can, and survive yourself if they truly wish to die. The light of Sol cannot die, but the weakest parts cannot be allowed to kill the rest. A trapped animal will gnaw off its own leg to survive.

>>51348056
Who are you talking to?

>>51348073
Look at Exhuman collectives. Internally they have no strife beyond controlled struggle. Even the Fomorians keep their internal struggles in simulated space to not drain resources. The Rorties have created a fully cohesive internal society, where every member of the community can get what they need and provide what they want instantly, with perfect communal information. Like the mesh, but vastly better. Thus, the flow of information and resources can be optimized resources, and by extension.

Exhuman society is not limited to the morals and norms which evolved on Earth. We don't live on Earth anymore, we can't, because monkeys aren't capable of avoiding the traps laid in the universe.

Take that loaded gun away from your head, and LIVE in the modern era, rather than holding onto a dead past until those mistakes catch up again. Some people would call the Exhumans crazy, and they are right, because from the point of view of Earth-Monkeys Exhumans are crazy. They don't have the same mental norms. But this craziness is subjective and based upon social and evolutionary norms, which have been brutally demonstrated to be maladaptive.

>But the Exhumans gave up their humanity and became [subjective] monsters
It is better to give up your humanity and survive than carry it to the grave. Every Infugee who sold themselves into slavery to live made the same choice to live and give themselves up. And almost all of them do it.

Look at the Ultimates, they are similar to Exhumans, but only want to add capability, without removing weakness. They want to become perfect humans without even being able to give a good definition of "humanity". They risk extinction over a nostalgic feeling they don't even understand. Nothing even stops an Exhuman from waxing philosophical about their "Exhuman Condition", but we can test our philosophy experimentally, while the Ultimates just hope Earth-Monkey are somehow the fittest thing in the universe.

Natural Selection isn't over

>>51348081
I didn't edit this from the last time at all, so the upper parts don't make sense anymore. IIRC it was a post saying something like
>What's next exhuman apologists?

Are asyncs useful or just titan bait?

>>51348122
>what is sense infection

Already makes them essential to have on a team.

>>51348108
Ah, I see. What a silly question of him to ask, of course there are exhuman apologists. After the biocons they are the 2nd most sensible group out there.

>>51348155
Are you saying that exhumans are more sensible than exhuman apologists?

>>51348081
His goal is for /epg/ to become /jovianphasegeneral/ or for /epg/ to stop existing, either way minervafag wins

>>51348475
Just wait until the Minervans are Squatted/Zoatted in the next book.

Seriously, I can smell the exsurgent infection foreshadowing from here.

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ABSOLUTA

By Lex Chu, Sentinel <Info Msg Rep>

The fastest-growing settlement on Mars is this charming little commune a short flight south from Noctis-Qianjao, where a religious society called the Daughters of Absolution have a home. Another cult on the red planet? You don't say! Well this one a little more insidious than the average, and it's not just because they've successfully marketed themselves to the corps and the anarchists as a kind of perfect compromise. It's because they've been waging low-key memetic warfare on the entire solar system with one purpose: ensuring that all of transhumanity identifies with the female gender.

Crazy, right? I went in with a couple of friends a few weeks ago, who said there was a hot new resort town. Absoluta. Where all of the women are beautiful and attend to your every need, where clients and visitors can pay any which way they like and there's no restriction on immigration as long as you participate in their 'membership rituals'. Needless to say, I went in with four friends and left with one. Three of my friends, guys, decided that they'd really rather just stick around in the commune and live as women with their sisters. I decided to uh... sneak in a bit later and take some discrete brain scans and they showed basically what you'd expect: subtle neurological changes suggestive of some really clever psychosurgery, as well as subharmonic induction. Not everyone is affected equally, and most people don't even realize what's going on because they're not directly compatible with the first-stage assimilation (as they call it) techniques. Gay women are more vulnerable than men and gay men are the most resilient, but that's only to their generalized treatments. They've got specialists who seem to just instinctively know the chinks in everyone's mental armor, the exact buttons to push.

And then there's the references to TITAN tech I found. It doesn't look good...

>>51348601
I like it!

A bit juvenile (evil sexy lesbians), but in EP it automatically gets a fucked up Stepford Wives/1984 vibe.

>>51348475
He was praising the exsurgents though, so that doesn't make much sense

>tfw no one likes the synthmorphs or the bots

>>51346097
Are you one of those GMs that tries to make all the struggles of the PCs pointless or screw them over just to pull "cosmic horror beyond ur comphrenesion!!" shit?

>>51348735
The idea is they're basically a super well-organized resort town that recruits from the client base. They take credits from corp people, labor from autonomists and anything else that a person can negotiate as being of equal value to their stay.

They market themselves very well and minimize the PR impact of so many former clients joining, and have asyncs diplomancers who break people down just enough to convince them to get the relevant psychosurgery.

>>51348735
>>51348883
And of course, they never do anything violent but have a ton of vulnerable ex-military and security dudes who have either been inducted or are in love with the place.

Genderbending mind control yuri fetishism incidental.

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>>51348902

Very EP/epg accurate

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>>51348807

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>>51348807
Always.

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>>51346096

And this is why cosmic horror is one of the most boring genres to play a tabletop RPG in, and I'm glad the few EP GMs I've run with didn't deploy it in spades in their games

>>51349049
Revelation Space showed you can tell a story about the smallness of humanity in a hostile cosmos, and not have it be grimderp "nothing you do matters" wanking from the HP Lovehandles fans.

>>51347773

>wants to defeat the transhumans
>posts metabarons

>>51348999
>>51349011
I stand corrected.

Although they look like women in spandex. Freakier non-human stuff is obviously forbidden.

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So who wants to 'immigrate' to Absoluta?

Remember that your sisters will always love you, and no one will ever know you as well as they know you. Not even yourself.

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>>51349149

>>51347698
>Emperor
>Elected

Holy shit write this setting up. Because I'm gonna be the Titan resistance pussylicker to your Jovian-cocksucker

>>51343789

I am intrigued.

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>>51349283

>>51349310
I'm not sure how exactly Titan gets defeated in his story anyway, other than it mysteriously fails so that Jupiter can be stronkest.

>>51350109
I realized after posting that it's just a faggoter version of 40k. Like why would anyone want this?

>>51350148
It's very 'an eighteen year old writes hardcore timeline' with the mass executions and inexplicable multinational alliances winning everything.

I miss being that young.

Y'know what we need? Some kind of random subculture generator.

Like, roll on the table a few times to get something like "anarchists" who "want to destroy" "The Earth". And then maybe a weird bonus generator like "They only wear purple".

I've always found procedural generation inspiring at times, a good stepping off point for an idea or for writing - more so than "Hey, /epg/, throw me out some pitches for a weird subculture".

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>>51350175
Yeah, I mean I love the biocons and all, but I blanked out when he mentioned an emperor. Let's keep this within reason here, biocons aren't gonna be defeating anyone in less than 10 years. The farthest I can see the Jovians getting is an expansionist getting elected and succeeding in securing the space around Jupiter.

>>51350608
Personally if someone ran an EP game as Jovians I'd join in a heartbeat.

But I'd rather play tactical space whore body pimping and just cram a vagillion augs into my body.

>>51347059
>the Singularity Seeker
Reporting in!

Usually I get busy talking about setting details or giving suggestions for missions. Ascension is a personal process, and I see no reason to burden you with how I run my coolant lines.

My major philosophy is that all people deserve a well-made body, so I'm trying to make that happen. And if their payment is a bit of distributed processing, well, they don't need to worry about that, do they?

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>>51350661
I think EP would be better as a video game or tabletop wargame than a roleplaying game honestly. The game is so politicized that the factions become very polarizing, which is fine when you are able to pick a side with no problems, but get a group of players trying to work towards a common goal and it becomes much harder.

Sure, you have Firewall as a sort common faction that many people can join, but there's two problems with that. First, it limits you to a certain type of game, hunting down x-risks when you might just want to be a merchant or soldier. Second, it doesn't really work when the PC has OZMA, the Jovians attack Firewall on sight, and all other kinds of stuff that makes it so that even if you belong to those factions it becomes very hard to interact with them.

Now, the game could still work as a roleplaying game if they perhaps made it more of a diplomacy/espionage focused game. With so many factions stuck in a sort of space cold war and on the brink of extinction it could be very interesting, allowing for a clash of ideologies while also retaining the group dynamic.

Rather than have everyone in Firewall, you have Jovian special forces, Firewall agents, and OZMA operatives working together to take down a massive exsurgent threat they just discovered, all while trying to outsmart one another to get the valuable salvage and tech from the enemy afterwards, or perhaps even trying to direct said exsurgent threat away from their faction and towards an enemy faction. It pits the players against each other while also keeping them from outright shooting one another.

>>51350867
There was actually a pre-planned adventure that had a team of Firewall members who are all secretly from different factions, trying to betray one another.

Including an Exsurgent octopus.

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>>51350912

Who is a crab, which vomits minimes.

>>51350940
Imagine if Meathab got a case of the Skirks.

>>51351030

It would be like a Gradius game or something, a big hab vomiting out meat-fighters.

I'm pretty interested in this game, but I have a few concerns

How could an economy more than 100 years in the future function without being identical to ours?

Will my character need to resleeve? I'm concerned about his immortal soul.

Where will I get goat entrails with which to divine the future?

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>>51351098

Quality memes

>>51351098
I have you covered comrade!

Don't worry, Bernard Sandersson founded a glorious communist utopia on one of Saturn's moons. Titan yes!

You can just switch to a brainbox and physically transfer your brain to a new body, if you're worried about falling behind.

Goat entrails can be acquired at the Carnival of the Goat. Just be careful that those are actuallly entrails and not 20 foot long four-armed lamia dicks.

>>51350867
>A game with almost no warfare would be better as a wargame

Nice DZC pic though

>>51351098
>How could an economy more than 100 years in the future function without being identical to ours?
Half of the setting will have a standard money economy, half of it will have a reputation system (if you've seen "Nosedive" from Black Mirror you already know what it is)

>Will my character need to resleeve? I'm concerned about his immortal soul.
This game might not be for you.

>Where will I get goat entrails with which to divine the future?
They will be very hard to come by, animals are exceedingly rare and most have been driven off to extinction.

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>>51351158
Well obviously such a drastic change would need a new book, which would move the plot along to defcon 1 levels of action.

>>51351193
That would make no sense though

>>51351098
>Be Titanian
>Apply for microcorp to produce quality vat grown goat entrails
>roll in delicious kroner from inner system "spiritual" yuppies

best scheme since kale

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>>51351166

>>51351458
Spiritual? I'm just a bluecollar haruspex

>>51348601
This is exactly the type of homebrew content I expect from /epg/

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>>51352979
Yes, and...?

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>>51352979
>>51353005
Would you like to know more?

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Recently I've been thinking about playing an AGI in a biomorph who was raised to think they were the child of a wealthy hyperelite and accidentally realized they were an attempt to recreate the guy's lost kid, who's ego and all copies were lost during the Fall, and ran away from home. Someone with good socials and physicals, because they thought they were just a regular teenager/early twenties person going to space college because of donor parents, but with the Real World Naivety trait so they sometimes totally misread the motives of real people and get rused- but is persuasive and likeable.

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>>51353388
>gets stuck with a team of hardcore veteran mercs, a corp goon and a former miner who survived an exsurgent outbreak, who are hired by Firewall investigate a minervan research hab that went silent
>the scientists were working on exsurgent based biomechanical von neumann "infantry"
>the hab must be completely destroyed before the minervans react and send their own investigation - causing more infestation to spread across the solar system

>>51356695
I realise that they can just blast the hab up, so they first have to get inside and look at the logs to see if there could have been any contamination before the hab went silent.

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So I'm reading the books, and it all seems like pretty good SF, if maybe a little too infested with SJW faggotry. But I'm not reading anything that seems like a game I want to play. Aside from sitting around a table masturbating about being special snowflakes, what actually happens?

Could someone breakdown their campaign and/or sessions for me?

>>51356901
>spend time being political activists on Mars
>occasionally get random calls to investigate reports of X-Risks, Exsurgents or TITAN technology being misused by corporate interests
>go back to normal life after, everyone has different jobs and goals
>accidentally blow up a remote corporate lab where they were experimenting on Qurainese exsurgents to figure out their weaknesses, after the base's main research AI was infected by the "gotta put evil transformation masks on everybody" virus
>have to leave Mars, deal with corporate hit squads and a superfighter from Tharsis Top Gun trying to literally nuke us as we try to steal a shuttle
>we actually created delta forks of ourselves and had them die in a blaze of glory mission, and quietly egocast to the Belt
>join a hippie commune in space, crowdfund paying off indentured people's debts
>get called to egocast and resleeve across the system and problem-solve now that we have a rep as blunt instruments

>>51356901
A group of powerful hypercorp elites are destabilizing the economy while making themselves wealthy. Three more secretive Firewall servers identify this as an x-threat and deploy proxy teams. They do not know about each other.

One team is tasked with eliminating them and their backups under the guise of anarchist terrorists.

The second team is attempting to ruin them financially from within a front Corp.

The third (the PCs), pretending to be a Titanian Fleet Intelligence team is attempting to keep them in power (avoiding further instability), after psychosurgically altering them not to be fuckheads.

Hilarity ensues. Also, check out The Gate War.

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>>51356901
>So I'm reading the books, and it all seems like pretty good SF, if maybe a little too infested with SJW faggotry.

Here's your (You), faggot.

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>>51356901
Recent reports of unidentified troops entering the quarantined zone on Mars. Firewall squad sent to investigate. When you get inside, there is a standoff between OZMA agents and Jovian operatives over the McGuffin, with your involvement turning the encounter into a 3 way Mexican standoff. If fighting erupts, every exsurgent within 10 miles is gonna hear you and investigate.

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>>51357174
He's probably new to these threads, give him a break.

>>51357205
Clearly not new enough to use retarded meme words.

If he's new, we better break the retarded meme spouting out of him right now.

So this game is obviously the far more talked about game among the two, but how does Transhuman Space compare to this? How many players play it compared to EP? Is it filled with as much bias and SJW silliness? How good is it for campaigns and adventures compared to EP?

>>51357769
Transhuman Space has less room for fringe ideologies and politics. While EP caters to a lot of cooky niche ideas, there's enough ragged edges and untamed frontiers that you can easily have it cater to /your/ crazy politics and ideology.

EP is also tons simpler to build for and play, although the upper bounds of the system tend to go on display quickly enough.

>>51357825
>there's enough ragged edges and untamed frontiers that you can easily have it cater to /your/ crazy politics and ideology.
>EP is also tons simpler to build for and play
I'm guessing that's why it's talked about so much more.

>>51357885
Transhuman Space is very much a creation of Francis Fukuyama and the End of History. It's a world of beige liberal social democracies competing to be the beigest of the all, with some megacorp shenanigans and insurrections on the frontier but nothing meaningful.

EP blew up the old world order of nation-states and made anything possible in the post-national environment, although naturally the hypercorps who were running most of the off-world colonies own a lion's share of things. But if you don't like that, you can just be in the Belt or Outer Rim, or even in the Martian boonies.

>>51347166
But ganging up won't help. Any of the three factions (PC, Jove, Titan) attacking the other will lead to a mutual destruction by RKV attacks and things like Casaba Howitzers. After which fleets will duke it out in orbits over dead habitats.

Titan will also probably back AA in case if someone will try to bully it. Hell, Jove will back AA if PC will try to barge in Jupiter Trojans.

>>51347300
Because reclaimers are all a bunch of nutjobs. I mean if you take a reclaimer and an exhuman and try to run a psychtest on them the exhuman will come out closer to norm. Much closer.

Reclaimers who go for more than one operation Down There don't really care about from there the guys who work with them come. Because those who care about reclaiming less than about other things don't stay after the first drop. They either run back home crying or are locked up in a loony bin.

>>51351193
Actually you probably can do something like a boardgame about reclaimers. A-la Arkham.

Players create decks before game, and then embark on a mission.

>>51359937
That paratrooper made a sweet catch, didn't he?

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So how long would it take to get your own faction up and running in Eclipse Phase? Using AI's, forks, and as many morphs as you can buy and request, how long would it take before you could conduct military operations, or hold your own habitat, or start producing your own morphs?

>>51359622
It boggles the mind that people don't realize that reputation system is actually part of the dystopian aspect of the setting.

>>51361108

Goddamn black mirror. It does one episode YEARS LATER and suddenly people are back on the "Rep is an evil mob mentality popularity dicksuck contest - because some other fiction story told me so!"

>>51361108
You ever seen Black Mirror? If you haven't, watch "Nosedive" (3rd season, 1st episode). Don't worry about seeing any of the other episodes, they're all self contained.

>>51361153
We were calling the reputation system terrible ever since Eclipse Phase came out, its just that Black Mirror happens to show our problems with it very well.

>>51361218

Yeah, because it's a fucking "scary door" type show. The whole point is to go "ooh, look how freaky this idea might be, think about it as you sleep at night, ooooo~".

Rep is just a tool. You find me an explicit reference to it being dystopian, horror or evil inside the work itself, not referencing an external context. All Black Mirror did is make you say "hey, somebody else did something I agree with in an entirely seperate medium - that means I'm right!".

Rep is about as dystopian as capital economies. It's all in how people use it, and generally they don't use it to be fucked up, because fundamentally humans are social creatures who generally don't have the stones to harm their fellow man. Rep communities tend to be focused on community, unity and openness, lacking cultural baggage to oppress or degrade and the selfish strategy in that system is just to not be a dick. There is no inherent malice in the system, it hurts or harms no more than any other tool of man.

>>51361488
It doesn't matter what the authors think is evil or horrible, what matters is what we think of it. Now the reputation system is functional and works for the people who live under it, but when we say it is terrible we mean we would never want to live under a reputation system, such a system sounds awful for us. Maybe other people love it, but we don't, so count us out.

>>51361562
Would it be disingenous to say that part of the reason some people on /epg/ hate the reputation system is that it sounds like a system from that other website? You know, the one that claims to be the front page of the internet?

>>51361562

Well, you're on 4chan. Anonymity promotes dickbag behaviors and being an edgy contrarian dickbag is "cool" here. As is proclaiming how much you don't care how cool or popular you are, despite how people farm for (You)s.

Which ironically means if there was a 4chan rep system people would probably have pretty comfortable levels.

>>51361601
>>51361648
It's mostly just that I want my quality of life to be determined by the value people place on what I offer them, rather than their opinion of me as a person.

>>51361218
I don't suppose it occurred to anyone that somebody might do something about that potential problem?

You might as well say that free markets can't work because of monopolies

>>51361692
I take it you don't have a job?

>>51361764
Yes, but what does that have to do with anything?

>>51361692

You know rep does that too, right? It's your Reputation - which can be high for just "does good stuff". As evidenced by its use in non New Economy locales.

>>51361857
Yes, rep can be affected by what I make for people, but it can also be affected by what people think of my personality. If it wasn't for the latter part I'd be fine with the rep system.

>>51361853
When you get one you'll find that your quality of life is determined by how people perceive you as a person

>>51360522
If you have a spaceship full of equipment you probably can establish a small hab in around a year. Nothing really fancy but will be good enough to house a couple of hundred people.

Problem is staking asteroids for that. You'll either need to go for Oort cloud or to make sure that your neighbours won't have anything against you and won't try to nail you with a couple of ballistic rounds.

>>51361977
No, it's determined by what you offer and how much people think your labor is worth. Heck, in my current job I'm actually getting overpaid because of minimum wage.

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>>51361981
Okay, could make for an interesting game. Assuming you could avoid conflict then you would be able to exponentially grow larger as time goes on, with the forked and AI morphs going out to collect resources to build even more morphs.

>>51362163

Don't even need full morphs, there are some standard drone platforms which do this kind of support.

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>>51362214
That's true. How loyal could I get the AGI's and forks to be? Sure, simpler AI's would never rebel, but for more complex operations I'd want smarter morphs on location, so could I make the AGI's and psychosurgically alter the forks to be completely loyal to me?

>>51362042
That it would be true if people logically assessed the value of employees, which they don't

>>51362468

You mean humans aren't meat-machines who always act in rational self-interest!?

>>51361156
>>51361153
Post from April 2012
"Money exists because it is a more stable, less cruel and controllable system of judging worth and prices.
A system based largely on popularity will lead to many excesses and unfair treatment of those with good skills and competences but poor social abilities. On the other hand Berlusconi/Clinton types that may lack competences but have good charisma and people skills, or just know how to put on a show will have advantages.
Those who don't conform to values and views of society will be eradicated before they will have a chance to have their say. This blocks inguinity and cultural development quite nicely. A reputation based economy ensures social conformism, obedience to hierarchy, cryonism and nepotism.
All the above make reputation based society very dystopian and very nasty compared to ours. Right now a banking or state official can under false belief of being unknown post anarchic statements on the net, or hint at his disgust with society he helps to continue existing. In EP due to reputation economy and massive surveillance this is made impossible, trapping people in Orwellian existance where they have to live according to their social masks-without hope of escape. I can see this being source of very violent fantasies.
In our world, we still(yet, this is changing fast under artificially created social pressure to join "fun" social networking sites) can live our lives seperately-there is life at work, your role as an employee, there is life outside work, your role as a member of family, social group, hobby group. All more or less seperate. In the future-all your lives are you. Everything is recorded, analyed, and you are judged by it. You can't spit in the net with disgust at those you depend your livelyhood on. Your real you, your real beliefs. They are always hidden in the shell that you present to the world, a doll that is not you, but a constructed image to fulfill expectations of society..

>>51363148
http://eclipsephase.com/why-money-if-theres-rep

>>51363148
Oh man, someone a forum made the same argumentum ad absurdum that you made? It must be true then.

>>51363428
>Oh man, someone a forum made the same argumentum ad absurdum that you made? It must be true then.

If you like reputation system so much, why are you here and not on reddit?

>>51361648
>Well, you're on 4chan. Anonymity promotes dickbag behaviors and being an edgy contrarian dickbag is "cool" here.

Reputation system promotes cliques, lack of creativity and feudalism though.

>>51363485
I'm on reddit right now

>>51363538
disgusting

>>51363515

>Reputation system promotes cliques

Humans promote cliques. There are totally cliques on 4chan, you just can only pick up on them through context clues of the discussion.

>lack of creativity

Except people value creativity and tend feel people who do creative things are neat

>and feudalism

I mean, I'd say you don't understand feudalism, but doing some quick definitional double-checking I have discovered that much like "terrorism" there isn't a strong, singular common definition of feudalism in your modern time. Most definitions lead me to think you don't know what you're on about though - and just using feudalism as a general negative term is kind of pointless.

>>51363428
How is it absurd to hate your clients and/or employers?

>>51363680
Argumentum ad absurdum- the rhetorical technique/logical fallacy of taking the most absurd, unworkable version of the topic imaginable and arguing against that rather than making an argument which might have merit.

For instance. If I said "Cars are stupid. Driving 120 mph simply can't be made safe with today's technology", I would be making such an argument.

>>51363680
>>51363724
Similarly, you are arguing against a reputation economy in which no reasonable precautions against mob mentality and other problems are taken in the relevant reputation networks.

>>51344747
>population runs out of shit to be afraid of
I thought humanity was blatantly doomed in EP?

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>>51363750
>reputation
>precautions against mob mentality

>>51363957
>capitalism
>protections against monopolies

See how easy it is?

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MOONS
ARE
EXHUMAN

>>51363979
>>51364002
>almost exactly a minute apart
>the ledditor is shitposting with fat fetish pics
I wish I were more surprised.

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>>51347059
>tfw exhuman jovefag

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>>51364063
But the fat pic is from a new IP.
Sorry but i don't think they're the same person.

>>51364689
I blame phone-posting.

>>51364705
If the IP switched then the timing isn't evidence

>>51363660
Reputation is pushed by the developers as the next best thing besides ladyboy's blowjob because they are openly SJW's and SJW's love reputation systems where dissent can be discouraged and different views silenced.

>>51364990
You do realise that EP's world is populated with more political factions than motherfucking real life?

The idea that the rep system doesn't allow for widely differing political and philosophical ideas is objectively wrong. The game clearly makes it obvious that the rep system is flexible. After all, ANYONE can make their own Sealab in space with blackjack and hookers. Bizarro I love you.

Reputation bullshit is the worst part of a money economy.
Why the fuck would anyone think it's a good idea to cut out the money part and just work off of pure reputation?

>>51365062
You know that the reason EP has so many factions is because people can secede and build their own habs if something doesn't work for them and not because of their economic system right?
The only thing that allows such intellectual diversity is tons of empty space to move into.
You should to be looking at diversity within these independent polities not between them.

>>51365169
>>51365065
>>51365062
>>51365062
This is a good read and explains why reputation economy is dystopian(I quoted a very small part)
http://www.locusmag.com/Perspectives/2016/03/cory-doctorow-wealth-inequality-is-even-worse-in-reputation-economies/'


Cory Doctorow: Wealth Inequality Is Even Worse
in Reputation Economies

It’s bad enough when the meritocratic delusion takes root in a money-driven economy, but reputation’s one percenters are even more toxic. They can go spectacularly bankrupt, financially ruining their investors, and promptly raise another fortune to gamble on.

Reputation is a terrible currency.

>>51365065
Because money loses its value when you can just let robots do all the work?

>>51365265
But robots in EP need money too.

>>51365277
Fuck the robots.

>>51365290
Well yes but they'll still need the money afterwards

>>51365290
I'd fuck the robots

>>51365467
>>51365432
>>51365290

/epg/ ladies and gentlebeings.

>>51365062
Plus there are so many reputation networks, from @-net to Trumptopia

>>51365251
>This is a good read and explains why reputation economy is dystopian
>link to completely hypothetical article by a science fiction author

Pardon me while I shit in my hand and present that as an argument

>>51365636
because we all know Eclipse Phase is real and not SF.

>>51365664
But it's SF that wasn't written by Cory Doctorow, so...
And if you're going to be that way then it's impossible to make any argument against it.

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>>51365251
>leftist numale is scared of the reputation economy because it means the jocks will beat him up

I know it's hard to accept, but popular people are popular for a reason. Reputation, like wealth, accrues to those who actually contribute to society. Circumstance follows virtue.

>>51366173
Tuva or bust!

Also, as someone from a country where all secondary education is segregated by your grades, I never understood the whole American jock vs. nerd shite.

Where I came from, the jocks were nerds, the delinquents were nerds, the stoners were nerds, the trailer trash were nerds, the metalheads were nerds, the teen moms were nerds. Everyone is a fucking nerd.

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>Leave a question about the game, go to work
>Come back
>two good replies

>And then there's this guy
>>51357174
>>51357228

Ghat damn, Sunshine, didn't mean to trigger you.

So that's the problem with the system, then? Just enough SJW horseshit to buttblast people like Precious here, but not enough to drive them off altogether?

>>51366667

Honestly, most modern SJW shit is just ignored because yeah, guess what, transhuman science has unfucked most people's problems - or can if you can access it. Other stuff is allegorical or part of more broad or classic political themes, same as you will find in basically any sci-fi story ever - or part of a system which y'know, let's you portray wildly varying viewpoints.

You can be an octopus who yells in chromatophor language "stop appropriating my culture, human!" or you could play a militant catholic nun who doesn't believe in body mods, AI or contraception. Both will be about as equally deep as you portray them.

>>51366667
As one of the people who gave a good reply, I fully agree with the people you are complaining about

>>51366667
>Whining because you didn't get enough (you)s

Well here's one more, faggot.

I feel like they wasted an opportunity with the Minervans. The authors have two biocon factions, the Jovians and Minervans, but they're basically the same, with the Minervans just being a somewhat more crazy version of the Jovians.

My main problem is that there isn't a biocon faction out there that uses AI's and AGI's in large amounts, or is okay with biomorphs as loyal slaves.

I mean, if you don't believe in resleeving, and you don't think AGI's or inhuman biomorph forks have souls, then wouldn't there be some biocon faction out there that's like "okay, the humans will be in charge, and we'll send out the AGI's and forks to collect resources and defend us".

>>51369031
There are other biocons, they just don't have decent militaries and so haven't been able to pull a South China Sea or go around burning habs.

>>51369072
Are there any specific biocons mentioned? Like they're actually named and their location given?

>>51369135
Vo Nguyen is a pretty big deal.

>>51369135

Well, Vo Nguyen is specifically mentioned as a center of the bioconservative movement way back in the core - but yes I'm fairly certain there are others.

That said your idea seems to run counter to to the outlined bioconservative philosophy. They are outright against the utilization of AGI, forking, mass cloning of morphs, etc specifically as it is a technology which runs counter to the natural order or is too easily dangerous to transhumanity because of unintended consequences of subversion. Aversion to uploading, resleeving and backing up is a secondary, lesser concern which is more prominent with the religious types.

What you're describing is a different type of society which doesn't really fit the game's formal classifications - though it might still be possible and interesting.

>>51366457
That's because it really isn't jocks vrs nerds in hs. Pop culture presents it as so, but its really not true.

>>51369031
There you go again with your own nomenclature.

>inhuman biomorph forks

Fuck off.

The setting at large, even the biocons at Vo Nguyen, accept the premise that a transhuman ego seperated from its body is the seat of reason and emotion- that it is the human. That's why it's illegal to make tons of alpha forks in a lot of places- you're diminishing he uniqueness of the human being and creating legal issues from several instantiated egoes having a claim to being the same person. Betas and Deltas, who are less forks and more a low-grade AI created from your ego data, are generally much less-frowned upon. Hell, Skillsofts are basically just chunks of someone's ego that have been pruned down and repackaged into an expert system that helps you do that thing.

The soul argument goes two ways: either you don't believe in one, so fuck it, or the religious have figured that the soul transcends mere flesh. I mean seriously, how spiritual of a being are you if your soul is lost forever over a simple thing like resleeving? Not much. Does your soul leak out when you breathe or take a piss? Does a child take a piece of its mother's soul? And that's ignoring all of the non-Christian theologies that treat resleeving as a kind of voluntary, self-driven reincarnation. Lead lots of lives, grow as a being.

The disdain for robots is classicism (only desperate poors use Cases), and also because non-AGI AI-driven (not people) pods and synths were hijacked en mass as part of the TITAN's death squads.