ITT: Wasted Settings Post-apocalyptic VR hacker-pirates is

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Dumping some cool Matrix concepts

>>51229409
You completely missed the point of the movie.

>>51230258

I didn't. It's a pretentious as fuck message that has been done to death and in much better ways.

It basically takes the ideas and questions proposed by the works that influenced it, and plays with them in an objectively inferior way.

The setting is amazing though, and it's what saves the franchise for me.

My favorite concept from this is the alternate matrixes.
All completely different in settings and rules. Shame they used it once throughout the whole trilogy.

It would even be cool to put in a game.
Maybe the group is in the normal matrix, and on their way to their objective, they end up stuck in a world full of fantasy creatures.

>>51230751

All the VR stuff was really great, and had infinite possibilities; they really fucked it up by introducing the supernatural elements.

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>That one website full of weird surreal sort of canon alt Matrixes
>This was ignored completely for the sequel, barely touched in the Animatrix

Such a shame. I'd play in this setting too, but if you're going to question the nature of Reality, just play Unknown Armies.

Same shit, mildly different flavor.

>>51229409
This is just a thing that nerds do. We see great stories, then we obsess over minor setting details while ignoring the things that made the stories capture us in the first place. And then we wonder why no-one likes the works we put out that focus on those details.

>>51230471
>making Plato's allegory of the cave accessible to a modern audience
>getting a whole generation to seriously question the nature and authenticity of their experience
>pretentious

>>51231448
>That one website full of weird surreal sort of canon alt Matrixes
Explain more

>>51231619

>Blade Runner
>2001 A Space Odyssey
>dozens of Dr. Who episodes
>Alice in motherfucking Wonderland
>Ghost In The Shell
>Akira

And that's not even considering the hundreds of comics and books like Neuromancer and The Invisibles that had been touching on those themes for decades.

All of those do the philosophical questioning part better than The Matrix. The only reason someone would find The Matrix complex is if they were either very young, or they're exclusively intellectually fed by hollywood blockbusters and AAA video games.

The Matrix universe is cool as fuck, but its handling of philosophical questions is immature and pretentious.

>>51231448
Give us a link you double queer animal-loving sperm-wasting anonmyous with precious and valuable information.

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>>51231777
>B-b-but this anime did philosophy better!

Please. Explain how it was "pretentious" or "immature".

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>>51231777
>Dr. Who
>Not pretentious or immature

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>>51231448

>>51231888
2 of the 6 examples he posted are anime.

But!

Only 1 or 2 of those addresses the same philosophies as the matrix. And even then, only sort of. So fuck, I don't know.

>>51231777
You don't get to say something handles philosophy pretentiously or immaturely and then quote fucking Doctor Who. I like it but it's not deep, as hard as it tries to be sometimes.

Also, Matrix is very blatantly gnostic, which none of your examples (the ones I have seen, anyways) are. It's also an action movie and excellent at it.

>>51229409
I still get a little hard when Neo works up the balls to go toe to toe with Smith.

>>51232254

Eh, Old Who had some fantastic episodes on that front. Inferno or the The Curse of Peladon.

>>51232320
I'll admit I haven't seen a lot of the old series

>>51231888
>>51231911
>>51232242
>>51232254


I didn't name those for being deep or complex, I named them for bringing the same themes to the masses way before The Matrix came out.

I also said they do it better than The Matrix, which in my opinion they do. The Matrix is a blockbuster action movie first, and I like the allegories it plays with. My main point was that it tried to be much more than just that, and it failed miserably.

I was just adressing the guy who said I "missed the point of the movies" for saying they should've stuck with the tone of the first movie instead of going all metaphysical during the sequels.

I've heard that originally Neo finds out he isn't actually the chosen One, and the ending was supposed to be different, which would've been way more interesting of a conclusion to me, and more fitting with the tone.

Also the "Zion was a ruse all along!" thing REALLY turned me off. It's basically just a Cave allegory inside of a Cave allegory,and that's just shitty.

>>51232343

It was often a bit less on the nose than new Who. New Who tends to go in saying 'We want to give this message'. Old Who was more 'We would like to investigate this issue'.

Inferno is also honestly the darkest episode of Dr Who about. It's about the Doctor having to convince people to help him, those people knowing fully well that he couldn't save them and the people he was trying to help they'd never met before and would never know them. Every single person in Inferno from the very start is living on borrowed time and the Doctor knows that every single one of them will die, no matter what he does. So a lot of it's value is as a story about how people cope with death they know is coming.

The again: We also have the episode where the Doctor fights the evils of Margaret Thatcher and her candy cyborg Dr Mengle. So I can't say they were all hits.

Matix was overrated shit, SHIT! 13y-old queer edgelords, ruined movies forever. Worse then Firefly sheeple.

>>51231777
>Ghost In The Shell

This movie is kind of the definition of pretentious, even as good as it is.

>>51232393
> I named them for bringing the same themes to the masses way before The Matrix came out.
Almost no ideas are new. Matrix played its themes in a way that made them both a convincing explanation for over-the-top action that would otherwise completely shatter suspension of disbelief and presented ages-old philosophical questions and concepts so that they resonated with modern audiences.

What made the first movie cool wasn't that it was super-duper-deep but that it was deeper than usual for an action movie and made both sides work in tandem. And it had cool special effects which, while still pretty primitive and occasionally not that convincing even back them, worked to further the idea that their reality was fake.

Also, again, Matrix is very gnostic which goes a tiny bit deeper than just questioning the nature of reality
> they should've stuck with the tone of the first movie instead of going all metaphysical during the sequels.
You should have said that more clearly then because I doubt a lot of people will disagree

>I've heard that originally Neo finds out he isn't actually the chosen One, and the ending was supposed to be different, which would've been way more interesting of a conclusion to me, and more fitting with the tone.
The way I see it it would have been more fitting with the tone if you see it as primarily cyberpunk, but it'd need serious rewriting to make a lot of other themes coherent. You'd practically need a whole different movie

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>>51230751
>Shame they used it once throughout the whole trilogy.
What is this trilogy nonsense? There are only two movies: The Matrix and the Animatrix, the later of which shows us many different Matrices.

I always thought it was cool how the Matrix went through multiple versions and relics were left from them.

IIRC, the first Matrix was a pastoral paradise, but humans couldn't believe it was real and escaped. The second matrix was a monster-filled hell, and humans still couldn't believe it was real. The Merovingian and his cronies are leftover monsters from Matrix 2 that hid in the source when it was shut down.

>>51232436
Thanks for the summary, I think I'll get around downloading it around these days

>>51232565
>You should have said that more clearly then because I doubt a lot of people will disagree

"Post-apocalyptic VR hacker-pirates is SUCH a good concept, but they shit the bed with the whole esoteric Neo bullshit."

Literally in the OP.

>The way I see it it would have been more fitting with the tone if you see it as primarily cyberpunk, but it'd need serious rewriting to make a lot of other themes coherent. You'd practically need a whole different movie

That's bullshit. All the underlying themes are actually UNDERMINED when you realize Neo is a special snowflake destined to be THE HERO.

It would have worked much better if they went with the original idea that he was just a regular guy taking his destiny into his own hands.

>>51230907
>supernatural elements
You missed the point. Outside of the matrix was another matrix.
Unless you're talking about the vampires and ghosts and shit. That was pretty stupid.

>>51232732

That's fan theory AT BEST. That was never the point of the movies.

>>51232700
>"Post-apocalyptic VR hacker-pirates is SUCH a good concept, but they shit the bed with the whole esoteric Neo bullshit."
Most people love the "esoteric neo bullshit". It sounds like you just wanted a high budget cyberpunk movie.
>That's bullshit. All the underlying themes are actually UNDERMINED when you realize Neo is a special snowflake destined to be THE HERO.
The part about prophecy, fate etc. may need further analysis, but they're not undermined. Quite the opposite if you interpret it as Neo achieving gnosis. How many times should I say "gnosticism"?

The Matrix was a success because of its groundbreaking special effects and the badass visual style that hadn't been done before in a mainstream movie. The enormous budget helped too. Take those out and make it a movie about computer hacking and philosophy and it would have tanked.

Proof: The Wachowski sisters have done several movies since, none of which have approached the prestige of the Matrix.

>>51232858

Most people? Seriously? The sequels were trashed to shit exactly because of the direction the plot took towards those themes.

I mean, it's alright if you like it, but don't try to pain it as the consensus, because "most people" DEFINITELY resent the metaphysical esoteric bullshit.

Neo being able to bend reality while inside the Matrix because he began to understand it was all a simulation and started using his hacker mind to hack reality? That's awesome.

Neo being able to bend ACTUAL reality because... he's... the messiah or something? What? Get that weak shit outta here nigga.

>>51232902
You are missing my point completely. I am not defending the sequels. I am talking solely about the first movie. Take away the philosophical themes from the FIRST matrix movie and it's just a mediocre cyberpunk movie about leather-clad, sunglass-wearing hackers fighting evil robots which enslaved humanity

>>51232946

All the philosophical questioning in the movie IS because of all of humanity being enslaved by robots inside of a simulation.

The supernatural chosen one shit has is not exclusive to make it all work, and in fact it hinders a lot of points the films tries to make.

>>51232946

Actually, like >>51232884 said, take away all the flashy stuff and you're left with a pretty underwhelming movie that no one would remember like Gattica or something.

>>51232985
Anon at this point I'm just going to start crying and banging my fist on the desk while screaming "GNOSTICISM". It's one of the most obvious ways to interpret the movie. Also, on second thought I think you can work around the stuff with fate and the cheesy Trinity kiss scene if you consider gnostic beliefs on Jesus and the significance of duality/gender, but it's really more effort that I can muster to write up something decent about it

Please insert anime face

>>51233086

I know that it plays with gnostic themes, my point is that they're shit and most people agree that the franchise was better off without those themes.

>Matrix
>good
Holy shit, tg just hit a new low.

>>51233063
The point of >>51232884 was that the flashy stuff was what made it SUCCESFUL, not GOOD. The flashy stuff just gives the already interesting if very basic philosophy and esoteric themes more mass appeal

Also, I disagree with him about the Wachowski's newer movies. They've failed because they're generally badly written, not because they go too deep on philosophy. Which I think is almost completely absent from them

>>51233148
>They've failed because they're generally badly written

So, just like The Matrix then.

>>51233118
"Most people" didn't pick up on those themes because "most people" don't know or care about philosophy, and "most people" don't know shit about what makes good storytelling. "Most people" saw an inventive action movie with a totally unique premise by action movie standards and were sold by the action and the visual aesthetics. "Most people" then didn't like the sequels and couldn't explain why, saying things like "they were confusing" or they "had no plot" even though they were mostly just more of the same. It turns out, "most people" are fucking retarded. "Most people" went and saw Man of Steel, didn't like it, then went to see Batman v. Superman even though it was clearly just more of the same, and then complained that they still didn't like it. I think "most people" also saw Suicide Squad for the same fucking reason. Terrible movies can be successful, just like the Matrix sequels.

What board are we on again?

>>51233148
Movies don't usually fail because of bad writing. Nobody can tell if the writing is bad until either they see the movie or a ton of critics see the movie and harp on the writing specifically, which they rarely do. Furthermore, plenty of successful movies have shitty writing. Hell plenty of all-around GOOD movies have meh or bad writing. Star Wars had bad writing.

>>51233118
The franchise's most lasting impact was re-introducing the allegory of the cave into pop culture, which you have admitted over and over in this thread. You can exchange the other stuff with anything else, you could make it a fantasy movie while leaving that core concept intact and people would still identify it with the matrix. On the other hand, VR pirate-hackers could be a fuckload of generic cyberpunk and unless someone's only exposure to that genre is Matrix it's probably not going to be one of their main guesses
>>51233179
The Matrix was wildly succesful, so no. And regardless of whether you dislike it I don't think you've watched Cloud Atlas or Jupiter Rising if you think Matrix was anywhere near that fucking horrible

>>51233222
He wasn't calling the matrix not successful, you mong. He said it was badly written, like the Wachowskis' other movies.

>>51233221
I'm going to tell you the same thing I told OP. Cloud Atlas and Jupiter rising may as well have been written by a high school freshman. The acting is terrible. The aesthetics are off putting. The special effects are terrible. Almost everything about them is fucking terrible. They have no saving graces and that is why they failed.

Matrix at least had good action scenes and special effects.

>>51233259
And I am saying nothing about Matrix goes as incredibly low as either Jupiter Rising or Cloud Atlas did. Also, my quote said "they've failed".

>>51233222
>The Matrix was wildly succesful

Exactly, because of the groundbreaking special effects. Which the other badly written movies lack.

> You can exchange the other stuff with anything else, you could make it a fantasy movie while leaving that core concept intact and people would still identify it with the matrix. On the other hand, VR pirate-hackers could be a fuckload of generic cyberpunk and unless someone's only exposure to that genre is Matrix it's probably not going to be one of their main guesses

The core concept of The Matrix IS hackers being awakened from a Virtual Reality. What the fuck, man. Are you telling me that the "chosen one" part is what you think most people identify The Matrix with?

How retarded can you be? That's like the plot of literally every shonen anime out there. Take out the VR shit and The Matrix is literally Naruto. I mean, fuck, IT'S THE NAME OF THE FUCKING SERIES.

>>51233222
>>51233269
>>51233299
>Jupiter Rising

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_Ascending

>>51233222

That has to be the most retarded post I've ever seen.

Are you telling me:

"That one series in which the protagonist finds out he's the chosen one, gradually accepts his destiny and finally saves the world"

is more defining of the Matrix series than:

"that one post-apocalyptic series with hovercraft pirates that hack into a virtual reality where most people don't know they're in a simulation" ?

>>51233335
>"That one series in which the protagonist finds out he's the chosen one, gradually accepts his destiny and finally saves the world"
>Are you telling me that the "chosen one" part is what you think most people identify The Matrix with?
Do I need to record myself saying "gnosticism" and "allegory of the cave", break into your house, take your phone and put it as your fucking ringtone so after a few months of hearing it you think back to our argument on 4chan and finally get my fucking point?
>ake out the VR shit and The Matrix is literally Naruto
You just reached peak shitpost. Bravo.
>>51233338
I don't even remember the name of the damn thing. I just remember it was essentially the same plot as one of the sections of Cloud Atlas, which was horrible too, and that everything in the movie ranged from underwhelming to terrible. I only watched those movies because, for Cloud Atlas, I was mortally bored while on a several hour long bus ride and for Jupiter Ascending because a friend wanted to watch it

You just came up with a setting, not a story.

>>51233369
>That has to be the most retarded post I've ever seen.

Said the pot, to the kettle. He's saying the defining part of the Matrix is the allegory of the cave, not the chosen one stuff. VR hovercraft pirates are a thing, they fit into cyberpunk like black men fit into your mom. Nobody is saying the chosen one stuff is defining of anything. That would be retarded.

>>51233414

>and finally get my fucking point?

Maybe try making one instead of running that goalpost around like a headless chicken.

>>51233428

Yeah, that's kinda literally the point of the thread.

>>51233440
I have been saying the same thing this whole thread. That's why I could make a joke about how I could sum up my argument with two phrases.

>>51233435
>He's saying the defining part of the Matrix is the allegory of the cave, not the chosen one stuff.

No, you fucking cock blaster, that's the point I'm making. His point is that The Matrix revolves around the gnostic themes and that's what most people identify The Matrix with, which is bullshit.

>>51233435

>VR hovercraft pirates are a thing

Name three things that have VR hovecraft hackers

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>>51233474
I don't even know what to tell you anon. It's like we're reading different threads.

>>51233491
1. The Matrix
2. The Matrix Reloaded
3. The Animatrix
4. The Matrix Revolutions

That's four things. Did I just blow your fucking mind?

>>51233521
I officially no longer know what this discussion is about.

>>51233521

kek

>>51233507

I don't know man, you tell me. The allegory of the cave is only present in the film if we have the people enslaved by robots and hackers who can jack out of the simulation and see the real world for what it is. This is what defines The Matrix.

The other part of the plot, about Neo being a mystical chosen one and having powers that affect the real world, a destiny that has to be fulfilled and the whole "power of love saves the world" stuff, is most definitely NOT what defines the series, and is generic as fuck.

>>51233563

OP here.

I just wanted to talk about cool settings, mang.

>>51233571
>"power of love saves the world" stuff, is most definitely NOT what defines the series, and is generic as fuck.

Name three things that have this.

>>51233507
Different anon but the gnostic themes are kinda shitty and it'd be better to stick with the setting and make either a different overarching theme or subvert the whole chosen one thing.

>>51233571
I never even mentioned the chosen one or the power of love. I even pointed out that the movie's back-and-forth about fate could be a thematic inconsistency and that it was one of the few things that wouldn't squarely fit into a gnostic interpretation of the movie. You literally pulled that whole thing about me being a grand advocate for Naruto out of your ass.

>>51233614

What the hell was your point then? What does define The Matrix for most people then? You keep saying "gnosticism!" but you haven't really made a point yet.

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>>51233629
GNOSTICISM AND THE ALLEGORY OF THE CAVE

WHAT MADE THE FIRST MOVIE MOST MEMORABLE WERE HOW THEY FIT SIMPLE PHILOSOPHICAL THEMES WITH AN ACTION MOVIE AND MADE SOMETHING GREATER THAN THE SUM OF ITS PARTS

IF YOU TAKE EITHER ASPECT THE RESULT IS MEDIOCRE

THE SEQUELS SUCK

I SAID THIS OVER AN HOUR AGO

>>51233629
>you haven't really made a point yet.
Replied the kettle, resentful of the pot's earlier accusations.

>>51233604
Kinda shitty is how you show a complicated concept to the general masses. Hollywood is actually really good at this.

>>51233673
And for the guy saying the success of Matrix came solely from groundbreaking special effects: Financially the argument may hold up, but in terms of cultural impact few people cared that much about Avatar

>>51231777
What? Which of those address the 'brain in a jar' question?

>>51233673

But those weren't what made the movie memorable, you stupid fuck. Those things had been done to death in cinema. What made it memorable were the groundbreaking-at-the-time effects and that 90s edgy cyberpunk aesthetics.

>>51233705

Are you fucking shitting me? People were going into clinical depression after watching the film from how impressed they were with the effects in Avatar. It was REALLY relevant for a period of time, just like The Matrix was.

The Matrix in pop culture, nowadays and after its release, are basically trenchcoats and leather clothing, bullet time and virtual reality.

None of the "deep philosophical themes that the MASSES would NEVER have acess to otherwise" were that big of a deal, and they're certainly not what made the series a pop culture phenomenon.

>>51233629
>What does define The Matrix for most people then?
Leather coats, guns, VR, evil robots, and a lack of spoons.

>>51233719
Ghost in the Shells' protagonist is literally a brain in a sexy lady shaped jar

>>51233755
Oh, and slow-motion flippy gymnastics.

>>51229409
It really is a movie/setting that would make for a great game.

>>51233744
>Those things had been done to death in cinema
2 of your examples from earlier were anime, another was some non-specific episodes from a tv show and one was a book. Off the other two, I only see one that isn't a enormous reach

And after seeing you trying to compare the cultural impact of Matrix with Avatar I'm starting to get really fucking tired of this argument.

>>51233629
Not him, but I think I can help explain the point he's been clearly and repeatedly making to you this whole thread.

Reality as you know it is not the "true" reality. It's an elaborate illusion crafted to entrap you and prevent you from perceiving the truth. Seeing beyond reality as it seems to be, and understanding reality as it truly exists, is the path to enlightenment.

There. That's the theme at the heart of The Matrix. That's the defining feature that makes it unique among any other high-budget action movie you might see. That's what "gnostic themes" and "allegory of the cave" refer to.

>>51233759
Isn't that more questions about her identity, though, not whether the external world is real?

I could be wrong, though- I remember the second film having a whole bunch of weirdness.

>Matrix is smart and revolutionary maymay
2017 was a mistake.

>>51234294
Nobody here called it smart you ass clown. And it *was* revolutionary - the word was IN THE TITLE OF THE THIRD FUCKING MOVIE YOU FUCKING DIP SHIT.

>>51233696

>replied the kettle

Sensiblechuckle.gif

>>51234863
Thanks, I'll be here all night.

Unfortunately.

>>51229409
>Post-apocalyptic VR hacker-pirates is SUCH a good concept, but they shit the bed with the whole esoteric Neo bullshit.

Maybe if it was just a setting.

But it wasn't just a setting. It was a film about a nigga achieving gnosis. Films have to have an actual emotional climax and Neo realizing what the One is and becoming it is one of the most satisfying action movie climaxes in cinema.

>>51233474
>His point is that The Matrix revolves around the gnostic themes and that's what most people identify The Matrix with, which is bullshit.

Not really. The identify The Matrix with those themes even if they don't know the proper term for them.

>>51233744
>But those weren't what made the movie memorable, you stupid fuck. Those things had been done to death in cinema. What made it memorable were the groundbreaking-at-the-time effects and that 90s edgy cyberpunk aesthetics.

It was a mixture of both. The Matrix would not have been as successful or memorable had it not presented its depth in an accessible and endearing way, and combined it with that groundbreaking effects work.

>It was REALLY relevant for a period of time

No, it was relevant to a few deluded escapists with nothing better in their life, for like half year. The Matrix redefined the action genre for almost a decade to come. We still see its effects lingering in our media.

And why were the immediate copycat films not as successful? Because while they aped the visuals, they didn't touch any of the interesting stuff that the visuals were there to enhance.

>>51229409
That's what the mmo was for dummy

>>51230471
I bet you think Neo saved Zion.

I bet you think Zion ever existed. I bet you think all the characters in the movies are real.

The only real character is Neo. Everyone else is just like the lady in the red dress.

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>>51229409
>>51229409
If you want more inspiration, check out The Matrix comics.

They have the mysterious and paranoid atmosphere of the first film.

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>>51229409
I prefer the alt ending for the first movie where Mr. Anderson wakes up in a mental institution and discovers it was all his brain trying to rationalize his descent into schizophrenia.

Until Zach Snyder ruined that concept with Sucker Punch (a surprisingly apt description of what he did).

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>>51229409
>Wasted settings
>Implying Matrix was either about cool quasi-cyberpunk fight with The Man or it was a post-apo movie
What kind of millenial revisionism is this?!

>>51232580
Out of entire Animatrix, ONLY Program counts. Because it's good. Because it has style. Because it's not just some convoluted bullshit.

people loved it because most people not opennminded as nerds, you fucking nerds. we percept thing through different media and its shapes subcounciously. whatever nerds also pursuit meta knowledge we take those seeds into surface with time.
most people doesn't think or process that way. so when they say no spoon=bullet time their mind blows.
thats it. because of it they love this movie in this particular style. if you try to change flavour, no body watch the fucking movie. in this terms matrix did nothing wrong.

>>51242492
I'm 100% with you...
... and still the 2nd and 3rd movie was just awful. All the set pieces involving Smith in those two were fucking joke.

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>>51242492

>>51241962

Ask and you shall receive

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So...what system would you run a Matrix game on? Modified Shadowrun? Cyberpunk 2070? Paranoia?

pic related?

>>51242871
>2017
>Not just using GURPS

>>51242871
Check this one out lol

>>51241962

>>51229409
I actually came up with a bunch of mechanics for a Matrix RPG, with the intention of tacking it onto whatever system I was playing at the time.

I kinda want to run it, desu. I just don't have a decent setting to base it off, or whether I'd want to throw supernatural stuff in too.

>>51232254
The Truman show does Gnosticsm better. DESU lots of Hollywood movies have blatantly Gnostic themes (In b4 somebody blames the Illuminati/Jews). It's kind of played out now.

>>51231888
The Matrix was literally pitched to producers as a "Like ghost in the shell, but live action." It's a derivative work which fails to live up to it's inspirations.

>>51231448
HOLY FUCK I READ THAT WEBSITE TOO
IIRC there was a story where the AI overlords are attacked by aliens and they yank an engineer out of the Matrix to help them fight because he's more useful that way than as a battery. Or maybe he was a fighter pilot. This was at least 12 years ago. Then there was another one about a guy who lives on the surface as a hermit because he was rejected by the Matrix or something, unaware that there are other free humans.

>>51243460
I found the first one I was talking about.
http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/Goliath

>>51231777
>but its handling of philosophical questions is immature and pretentious.
Maybe.
Could be.
Still using it on Buddhism: 101 classes to explain people all the more complex stuff in a visual way.
At least the first film, that is.

The really scary part is when you try to explain it with Matrix and suddenly no student in the room even heard about it. Makes you wonder how out of time you are getting lately, since those kids were around 5 when Matrix was cool.

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>>51242871
Based anon reminding us of the based pre-matrix flick! The Truth has never been what it seems...

The latex outfits were awesome whatever else was shit at least we had that

>>51242148
I enjoyed sucker punch as brainless but very pretty fun, and the soundtrack is good shit. Fiteme.png

>>51242148
>I prefer the alt ending for the first movie where Mr. Anderson wakes up in a mental institution and discovers it was all his brain trying to rationalize his descent into schizophrenia.
Does this really exist?
sauce please

>>51246379
>Does this really exist?
No. Because the Matrix is too expensive a property to get WB to let you use to show George Lucas how to fix movies.

>>51247001
I mean just ask Zach Snyder. Why do you think he made Sucker Punch?

>>51243399
"Like X" is pretty much how you pitch anything to producers. That line of reasoning is pretty much non-functional if you are trying to prove something to be derivative.

>tfw no benevolent AI who runs Matrixworld for you to indulge your imagination as you see fit while keeping you alive indefinitely through cybernetic life support

>>51232700
>Literally in the OP.
"Esoteric Neo Bullshit" is not the same as "the first in the trilogy was the best", you fucking sperg.

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I don't know why, but seeing people shitting on the Matrix here makes me really sad. It's not like my favorite movie or anything, just a small something I enjoyed and remember fondly from my childhood. Seeing the picture on the OP made me feel nostalgic for it. And then I started reading the thread.

Fun times guys.

HALT, SINNERS!

>>51231709
>>51231828
>>51232185


http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/WhatIsTheMatrix.com

It's not real anymore

>>51239843
Complete speculation, impossible to prove in any way, shape or form given the informations the movies give us.
You're not smart, You just talk out of your ass while mantaining the façade of actual intelligence.

>>51229409

Look into a game milieu called NeoTerra by BTRC. Right up your alley.

You'll need the EABA game system by the same company to play it.

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>>51247445
GIVE YOURSELF TO JESUS!!!!!

>>51229409
>Post-apocalyptic VR hacker-pirates is SUCH a good concept, but they shit the bed with the whole esoteric Neo bullshit.


>Western-styled fantasy adventures across a vast world with tons of mythological intrigue is SUCH a good concept, but they shit the bed with the whole esoteric Frodo and the Ring bullshit.

>>51248656
False equivalencies do not become you, anon.

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>>51229409

A high fantasy setting where music = magic, cars and guitars are ancient artifacts, the wildlife is a fusion of machine and beast, and everywhere looks like its ripped from a metal album cover.

Has DEEPEST LORE. You want world creation? The world was full of darkness and hateful little creatures that were so ugly they hid in it. Ormagöden, a giant fucking chrome beast of molten metal kamikazeed and drowned them all in his blood making the ocean while given birth to sound, ore, and the motherfucking SUN. Then some Titans born from the blood ocean starting making shit from his steel. the steel from the molten beast was too fast for chariots, so you know what they did? they ditched the beasts and they made fucckin CARS. Thats just the tip of the iceberg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcPm-MQiCQ8

You know what magic is? no you dont. its doing a sick solo to actually melt faces and summon a giant goddamn flaming zeppelin on a fucking army of S&M demons and goth zombies.

this type of magic and high fantasy meets music could be done with any genre of music, but metal has always had its fantasy influenced bands and songs. expanding to other genres could bring alot of cool ideas like actual keyboard wizards and head drumming barbarians. Hell there is a bassest in game that can bring people back from the brink of death!

they had so much lore and story for a game that got cut short, and we will be lucky if a sequel to properly finished the game as intended ever happens.

and the fucking skybox is fucking dope. it is the best skybox in any form of reality. fite me

>>51232620
>Merovingian and his cronies are leftover monsters from Matrix 2 that hid in the source when it was shut down.
my girlfriend at the time thought they were vampires or something equivalent

>>51233585
It devolved into arguement without anyone mentioning Dark City. I'm sorry OP.

>>51242294

It wasn't, that's the entire point of the thread, dumbass.

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>>51242871

This one is pretty awesome.

>>51247359

It is when the first one was the only one that wasn't focused on that. The sequels are almost entirely focused on the real world, while the Matrix is just some place they go occasionally to do resolve some subplot.

>>51249297

YES!

Fuck, Brutal Legend had a fucking 10/10 first chapter, it could have been so much more.

>>51247368

To be fair if this time the point is that Matrix was stupid...

... welll, yes, it was.And it was pretty clear even back then.

First movie WAS pretty entertaining, mind you.

>>51249385
That's all but stated outright - if they're not actually those things then they're at least the inspiration for those legends.

>>51249911
>It is when the first one was the only one that wasn't focused on that.
Bullshit. It was entirely focused on the most fucking important part of it: his apotheosis. The rest was a tacked on pile of shit created because the Wachowski's realized they wasted the whole trilogy's plot in a single film.

Should have been one film about him becoming a great leader in the resistance, the next one about questioning how they define reality, and the final one about him becoming the one. Instead, they had to asspull a plot out of him questioning himself, when that shit should have came before becoming a god did (and was literally what the Oracle visit was about, so it did happen before).

>>51250115

Sure. I meant that it took place almost entirely within the Matrix, and the outside world wasn't really the focus of it.

The whole Neo plot is pretty dumb and generic, to be honest. The way he goes though his apotheosis is literally just like in any other "chosen one" fiction. It's the least interesting part of the series.

A really good hacker who was chosen because of his mad coding skills (like Trinity) to be redpilled, and then coming to grips with this new reality and finding his place in it would be much more interesting than the "UR THE CHOSEN ONE!!!" plot.

>>51249942
I still remember an old Game Informer that detailed about how you were going to drive across the world recruiting ALL of your troops- not just the troops for Ironheade, but for Drowning Doom too, and then the game itself just sort of stops once Lionwhite's dead.

Fucking Shafer.

>>51229409
>ITT: Wasted Settings

There's an anime company out there that makes fantastic settings with incredible premises, and turns them into shitty harem animes.

>The last stonghold of humanity is a long-distance generation ship that happened to be far enough away when ayys blew up Earth. It's centuries later, resources are strained, even the giant mechs they rely on for defense are hand me downs. And the ayys just found them...
Buuuut which hot space cadet is the hero gonna bone? The one which the tits? The trap? The ayy chick?
>(oh yeah, it turns out the ayys are just shoggoth chicks who want the D).

>Rifts are opening randomly between a fantasy universe and a modern one. The respective governments immediately militarize and send exploratory parties into each other's reality.
The protagonist is a member of one of those parties but fuck that, which of these girls is he going to bone?

>>51250341
Not his fault. Publisher fucked with the game constantly.

>>51250344
>Sidonia
Don't remind me, it had so much potential and the science was amazing.

>>51250383
No, see, that's what I thought too, at least until it came out that Shafer blew all of the money they gave him on frivolous bullshit, refused to come to meetings, and didn't have half of the shit he had promised he would do done by the time the deadlines rolled out.

Tim Shafer's the only person in the fucking world who can make EA look like reasonable businessmen and not fucking supervillains.

>>51250400
Watch Ajin, it's by them too and doesn't have any of the harem bullshit. The animation is terrible but the premise is great

>>51250428
Yeah, Shafer's incapable of working with big publishers, which is why he's shitting out $10 games.

>>51250281
>A really good hacker who was chosen because of his mad coding skills (like Trinity) to be redpilled, and then coming to grips with this new reality and finding his place in it would be much more interesting than the "UR THE CHOSEN ONE!!!" plot.
Probably, but that was never really the Matrix. as someone said before, many people love the first movie, Messiah archetype and all. The sequels were just not up to par. It was a three-act film that got another act II and III in more films because muh profits.

If what you're saying is you love the setting, hate the story, that's great. But some would disagree.

>>51250341
The music gets real shitty after lionwhite too, since they throw out awesome 80's hair metal and turn into 90's emo bullshit which doesn't fit the aesthetic that they worked so hard to build up.

>>51250564
>If what you're saying is you love the setting, hate the story, that's great. But some would disagree.

Yeah, well, that's kinda the point of the thread.

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>>51250341
>>51250567

man lionwhyte flying on his hair was great. i need to make a bard that does that.

thinking about making a campaign based on it. gotta write up story and stats and whatnot. dont know when it should but i was thinking after a timeskip of sorts, with the tainted coil having a new ruler but still has some doviculus followers that refuse to accept the new leader forms their own sect. ironheade dissipating after their campaign means everyone sort of splits after establishing a new capital in place of the pleasure palace. lake of black tears is sealed up but still leaks. with all of the truths doviculus kept under wraps spawns various religions worshiping the titans(probably will be presented as dethklok in visons), atulia, the first king, and perhaps even eddie himself. wherever he might be.

so the fire baron and fletus are running amuck like the speed demons, barbarians, and bandits they are. killmaster is snoozin on his hill. the coil is split among infighting. meanwhile you have black tear cultists that worship atulia as a dark god rather than the lifebringer that some bassist would worship as. then theres some mad scientists that experiment with the water of the sea of black tears among other thing. some hairmetal mitalia looking guys are around but they mostly are scumbags and con artists, looking to make it big since various trades and whatnot has open up with various towns and kingdoms forming an economy.

fan guisers might be a powersource, so regular shows are needed to power a small kingdom proper. not sure if i want to go about doing that, still looking to build upon the lore in my own way.

pic not by me just happened to find this cool fanart

>>51250344
>Rifts are opening randomly between a fantasy universe and a modern one. The respective governments immediately militarize and send exploratory parties into each other's reality.
>The protagonist is a member of one of those parties but fuck that, which of these girls is he going to bone?

Wait, what?

>>51249297
God damn that game was cool. I hated the RTS shit though. If it had been Heavy Metal Open World Zelda where you're gathering an army and casting off chains of oppression to fight one bigass Dynasty Warriors battle every now and then and have team up moves and shit that'd be fucking rad. The inclusion of tactics and tower defense wasn't a whole lot of fun for me. I still beat it, just to see more of the world and finish the story.

>>51252439
>to fight one bigass Dynasty Warriors battle every now and then

Yeah, that would've been perfect. If instead of RTS style combat they'd went with a more musou-like aproach, it'd been perfect. They wouldn't even have to change the mechanics that much. Just instead of a trench like map with bases and shit, you'd be going around the different battlefield areas and killing troops while clearing objectives.

Fuck, that's would've been so fucking good.

>>51249563
dark city is amazing, and basically how i run my Ravenloft games, but the aliens are way more powerful and my players have never gotten close to figuring it out.

>>51251575
Gate, probably.

>>51233896
The second film played with the question of reality more, with the first film touching on it with the hacked dustbin man. Manga was better.

This thread only further reinforce my sentiment that setting fags are the most autistic people in the hobby. Because they can ignore just about everything and focus on useless background trivia, elevating it to the prime positon over just about everything else.

>>51255644

>not being a setting fag

what the fuck are you even doing in this board

>>51255644
The setting and characters are vehicles for a story of speculative fiction, therefore, we become autismo about setting and characters.

On that note, this thread really makes me want to go and re-watch The Matrix and play a Matrix campaign.

>>51232884
>sisters

>>51256533

I did exactly that last night. Watched the first film, and read through There Is No Spoon (pdf is in this thread, some posts back).

I like the system, but I think I'll use some of the ideas to make my own homebrew.

>>51256672
I was just gonna go with D6 Action/D6 Space and customize it a little bit like I usually do. Really easy to do that with OpenD6. I swear nobody does D6. I always feel autistic talking about it.

>>51256754

I don't know much about it. Got any pdfs?

>>51247887
But the good part is how you're fucking furious about how right I am

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>>51256796
http://opend6.wikidot.com/

Currently licensed under OGL after West End Games went under.

System is a pretty great toolkit, kind of like GURPS. Some shit sucks though, like the magic system in like every game. Best you can do there is homebrew some stuff up. Fortunately, the base mechanics and balancing are dead easy to understand so it isn't hard to come up with your own stuff. Also there are a few popular variants of OpenD6 like MiniSix. I'll upload the pdf.

Imagine OpenD6 as a sort of GURPS-lite. Easier to run and play, and the core books are more generic, focusing on 3 primary genres.

>>51256851

Oh, I know Mini Six! I really, really like it, for being a non-narrative rules lite game.

It has a very nice crunch level that is extremely easy to grasp for new players yet isn't super vague or narrativist that will confuse new GMs.

>>51258341
I want to add that if you just cut out a few rules and steal shit from games like Dungeon World most D6 stuff can be made in to a primarily narrative game. It's interesting how hackable it is. Not that I'd play a narrative hack of D6, I'd just go play Fate or something. Two generic games that stick to their strengths.

If you've tried Mini Six and liked it, the real deal D6 books are like a step up in crunch and complexity, with more options. My favorite generic system.

>>51233744
>None of the "deep philosophical themes that the MASSES would NEVER have acess to otherwise" were that big of a deal, and they're certainly not what made the series a pop culture phenomenon
I think both of you are right. The sequels had the same shit and nobody liked them. Hell, Equilibrium went out the same year or close, had trenchcoats and good special effects and totally flopped.

Think about it. The allegory of the cave is something deep, amongst the first ever devised in philosophy. Even if you don't know about it you can feel there's something at work, maybe the same thing as Plato discovered. I think it stuck a nerve because it didn't rub the philosophy straight into viewers faces. That's why people say it's a "good plot".

I always liked the idea that the pod grown direct Matrix interface capable humans were genetically engineered in comparison to the "Free range" people of Zion.

Also the machines being capable of surviving without tapping pod people if pressed along with being smart enough to figure out more energy dense generation methods makes me think they were still 3 Laws compliant.

After all they were making sure that they didn't allow mankind to come to harm after the batshit hissy fit civilization pulled in The Second Renaissance. Keeping your creators in a tidy energy farm dreamworld might still count on some primal level. Cognitive dissonance is one sign of advanced AI eh?

How many of you would have moved to Zero One before the nukes hit? Imagine that much SCIENCE going down. Likely at least some of the Matrix maintenance programs were based on sympathetic brain scanned humans from that era.

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>>51247445
FUCK!!

>>51252439
>>51252651
i actually like the rts hybrid, makes me wish there was a tabletop wargame of it. i picked up hordes farrow subfaction because fuck yeah warpigs and the black sabbath reference.

>>51255183
Damn. That's not by the same studio as Sidonia and Ajin, though.

>>51229409
I mean, it is interesting, and they didn't do much with the... I guess it's technically the more mundane parts that you mention, but I liked what they were doing anyway. The whole post-apoc cyberpunk hacker etc. was a means to end, and that end was always telling the story of a man who unwittingly becomes enlightened and becomes a demigod if not a god.

>>51234976
I think OP didn't actually want a movie, they wanted a series, or more realistically a comic book or manga, that just explored the setting and how people dealt with it.

>>51260327
I think a lot of people wanted that after the first film.

>>51230471
You know, I know this post doesn't exist. I know that when I look at it, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is stupid and bait. After 10 years, you know what I realize?

Ignorance is bliss.

>>51231619
I'd say it's more a thing autists and obsessives do, and I'm thinking more and more the nerd community is mostly those people or lead by those people.

>>51229409
Belated reminder that there were no Matrix sequels.

>>51232393
well a lot of people thought the whole thing of there even being escaped humans should've been a ruse, which would've had that same effect on me

>>51232580
What even implied they were different Matrices?

>>51260370
>autists and obsessives

I think it's more that sci-fi fans aren't trained to examine the underlying structure and theory of stories. All we know how to do is break them down into a sequence of events, a set of characters, and a setting, which are each scrutinized largely independently of the others.

>>51250039
>That's all but stated outright
He flat-out says they're monsters, IIRC, then they go after the heroes with werewolf teeth and superhuman strength, dressed like extras from Underworld.

>>51250567
They needed to go with proper 90s metal rather than all the edgelord goth tripe they ended up with. Industrial and groove metal. Imagine all the 80s power metal stuff defeating hair metal, splattering grunge on the way past, and then running smack into the 90s with sludgy riffs and machine-gun bass and LionWhyte's forces returning with New Sound Albums.

>>51243165
Shadowrun. Only once the players get established, they encounter the Pills. Blue pill, and you go back to your life, with the corps on your ass and Lone Star knocking at your door. Red pill, you see how deep the rabbit hole goes, and you run for US.

>>51250444
Ajin was fucking great, I love watching a bad guy that is just full-on evil and loving it.

>>51260370
>the nerd community is mostly autists and obsessives

Truly shocking.

>>51233744
>Those things had been done to death in cinema.
most people were not aware of this
it blended action and philosophy like nothing else
that's what makes it stand out

I like how everyone is missing the most obvious philosophy in it, but maybe that is because it's so obvious.

>>51260357
...and instead we got craptastic films about robo-god, or something, with multiple smiths getting btfo'd, or something....and giant robots - kinda.......with....some other stuff...........
Jeez: did the wach sisters forget that, in the first movie, they described the real world as depressing and bleak?? Why would they base their two followup films on the depressing and bleak aspects of Matrix?????????? wtf!

>>51260365
cue harp
So, do we have a deal?

>>51242871
I would run it using FATAL

>>51260937
You people complain about everything. They set up the world and then had a protagonist and antagonist story line. That's good and a great way about going establishing a story. The matrix existed for many generations prior, many many generations of human life starting from when the robots rebelled which was according to fluff centuries ago. You can easily have your little wankfest of characters and world building from that yet you complain studios found it good to have 3 movies to generate a story. If it was only one movie you would still complain even if it didn't have the whole Neo is Jesus concept.

Fucking bitter neckbeard/nerds.

>>51231777
Name an action film with the production quality of the matrix that even tried to touch on the philosophical in any meaningful way. Matrix may not have been the best in application but it was the first time anybody in the genre had even attempted it. Up until the matrix those big budget kung fu influenced action films were all fight scenes and no substance, matrix proved at the very least that the genre didnt have to be devoid of a deeper meaning just cause it had dope fight scenes

>>51232393
>Also the "Zion was a ruse all along!" thing REALLY turned me off
I really liked that part. It really blew me away when I first saw it, and that's why I liked the movie so much. I've never seen something like that before it. Also, it makes total sense that the robots would have thought of that.

I also liked the analogy of the reboot. It's like any complicated system that develops quirks over time, and you can't solve it but you can "deal with it" by rebooting the system.

>>51231777
Indeed.