/osrg/ OSR General - Who's a Good Boy Edition

>>51221971
3rd night in the dungeon:
>Oh, guys! By the way, did I mention I had a hireling?

>>51222070
>hireling
>equipment
I like the cut of your jib, Anon.

>>51222070
That's how hirelings usually end up being desu.

>>51205010
>>51205120
>>51205381
>>51205499
thanks for the real answers that actually helps a lot.

also a beginner question in Basic it doesn't seem that many of the attribute scores actually suggest or synergize with class abilities, except DEX and STR for to-hit and damage bonuses. CON is useful no matter what you play but the other half of the attributes seem pretty menial. am i missing some rule elsewhere in the book that would lead to the idea that characters with high WIS should play clerics or INT play wizard?

>>51222506
A magic-user with high INT gets bonus XP, and in any case can sacrifice the other stats to boost up their INT. A Cleric has the same with WIS, a Fighter with STR, and a Thief with DEX.

It's a soft encouragement rather than a hard one, although Basic also has some pretty strict experience penalties if you want to play a low-INT magic-user so that's something to watch out for.

A 16-INT magic-user just needs 2273xp to reach level two - but a 5-INT magic-user needs 3125xp!

>>51222506
>am i missing some rule elsewhere in the book that would lead to the idea that characters with high WIS should play clerics or INT play wizard?
Eh, maybe or maybe not, depending on how you count. The prime requisite XP bonuses/penalties incentivize high scores, but not in the same way that STR (in particular) works by synergistic reinforcement of the abilities. That's more of an AD&D thing, getting bonus spells and such.

The thing is, in LBB OD&D, the three prime requisite abilities (STR, INT, WIS) didn't do anything at all *except* grant that XP mod; only the three secondary abilities (DEX, CON, CHA) gave direct mechanical benefits. Of course, that was spoiled right away when the Thief showed up in Greyhawk and had Dex for a prime requisite -- I'm not trying to repeat the "Thief: boo or yay?" argument here, just point out that originally and for about five seconds, each given ability was either tied to one class or affected a specific non-class system. (Greyhawk also introduced the concept of to-hit and damage bonuses for high Strength -- originally it was a Fighter class ability, not something everybody got, but still, damage done.)

Basic retains that outline, as well as the confusion from Greyhawk, which is why INT and WIS look shit on: the XP-bonus thing just looks like a quibbly optional subsystem instead of the entire reason for three of the abilities to exist at all.

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>>51222506
>am i missing some rule elsewhere in the book that would lead to the idea that characters with high WIS should play clerics or INT play wizard?
Check the magic section, the part about learning spells, for wizards. In addition, you get a 5-10% bonus to EXP as a cleric with high WIS or mage with high INT. Mechanically, in Basic and OD&D anyway, the stats did a lot less heavy lifting in the game.

>>51222740
Also, this soft encouragement means that while they're not actual class features, characters tend to have higher prime requisites.

A Cleric could have a higher Strength score, but you get more goodies from being a Fighter - so Fighters get a weird out-of-left-field bonus to hit and damage. Similarly, Clerics have better saving throws against magic, Magic-Users know more languages, and Thieves are dodgier and better suited to ranged combat.
Especially since you're somewhat encouraged to dump any above-average secondary scores to boost your prime requisite.

This isn't locked in (you can have a high-strength Thief, or a Fighter who knows a bunch of languages) but it's interesting how it reinforces archetypes.

>>51222506
Charisma is the best stat in the game actually, because it determines how many henchmen you can have. And you're going to want henchmen.

>>51222813
Don't forget! It also determines henchman morale, how loyal they are (in some editions), *and* monster reaction checks!

>>51222863
Yeah. Charisma is the god stat of old school.

Has anyone played the stonhell megadungeon? Thinking of using it as my game's primary dungeon and using isle of dread as the overworld

Is there an event/encounter table for a space fantasy game knocking around? Im looking for something that's basically warp encounters, it's for a space fantasy game i'm running.

>>51223993
Probably something in here. I only browsed through it though.
>http://swordplusone.com/warband_print.pdf
Its a rogue trader inspired chaotic warband osr game, seems like a place with warp related tables.

Also Stars Without Number has a lot of interesting tables just on its own for scifi/fantasy, and the supplement Dead Names has a lot of tables for generating ancient aliens, ruins, etc. that I've found very useful.

Any OSR systems that use opposed roll under?

>>51225128
What, Eclipse Phase-esque "roll under, highest wins"?

Not that I can think of. Most OSR games have very few if any opposed checks, really.

>>51225213
>"roll under, highest wins"?
what if both roll above?

>>51225243
Depends on exactly what's going on. If two people are trying to do something, they both fail.
If one person is trying to stop another from doing something, the one trying to do something fails.

>>51225243
either reroll or lowest difference wins

>>51223889
I have no idea but you or someone else has asked enough times I'm curious too. I
haven't played/ran any megadungeon. It doesn't seem to get talked about as much as hexcrawling or dungeons of normal or one-page size. There's a lot to chose from though. Anyone have opinions?

>stonehell
>barrowmaze
>dwimmermount
>deep carbon
>maze of the blue medusa
>castle gargantua
>castle zagzy
>castle of the mad archmage? it seems big, but is it mega?

>>51225271
>If one person is trying to stop another from doing something, the one trying to do something fails.
I don't think this is fair, I would rule "the on closest to his score wins"

>>51225293
>either reroll or lowest difference wins
which one do you think is faster? Both have potential depending on players, but I think reroll would be better in general

>>51225128
Whitehack has something along those lines.

>>51225317
How is deep carbon observatory a megadungeon but your unsure if castle of the mad archmage is?

>>>51225328 I don't think this is fair,
The justification is "if they fail, it doesn't matter whether or not you succeed at stopping them", but whatever floats your boat.

>>51225317
>castle of the mad archmage? it seems big, but is it mega?
Yeah, it is. It's an attempt to recreate Castle Greyhawk based on available notes, tidbits and maps, IIRC, so should be at least 13 levels deep.

>>51225128
I think PX1 Psionics uses opposed roll-under for some powers.

>>51225243
They both fail. In some cases this is pretty much identical to just the "attacker" failing (if you fail to hit, there's no need to roll for dodging), but IIRC there's some more intricate cases as well.

It works that way because EP is a d100 system and the alternative is that you work with margins of success. And the reason it works that way is because they want someone with 60% in a skill to be better than someone with 30% in a roll-off - the first guy can roll higher than the second, while if you were just going straight roll-under then you'd need to find margins of success to figure out who rolled the lowest under their score.

I'm probably not explaining this well.

>>51225328
I see it as ties going in favor of the defender, feels natural.

>>51224146
I had a look, I didn't see anything for what I was looking for.

>>51225546
>I'm probably not explaining this well.
It's easier to understand if you think of it like blackjack: you have to score higher than the other guy while not going above a certain number, which is the skill rating in this case. If Characters A and B have a Interest: OSR skill at 61% and 42% respectively and are arguing about whether rocks are overpowered or not, as long as A rolls over 42 but equal to or under 61 they will win the argument, but if A blows it and B succeeds then it's B's victory.

>>51226356
Not either of those Anons, but
>as long as A rolls over 42 but equal to or under 61 they will win the argument,
isn't the best wording.

If they roll in that range, they're *guaranteed* to win. But they can roll below 42 and still win if Character B rolls poorly.

>>51225317
>I have no idea but you or someone else has asked

It's because the question is ultimately drowned out by stupid thread-to-thread topics.

>>51226409
You're right. My bad!

I want to buy a physical book to run tabletop RPG campaigns for people. These are my criteria:

>Ideally based on OD&D
>Well-written with clear rules
>No assumption of prior knowledge (I intend to run games for a lot of people who've never played OSR before, and for some who've never played any RPG at all)
>Good physical quality so I can use it for years to come

Off the top of my head, that's it.

>reading dragonsfoot
>"If one of MY PCs decided to dual-wield shields then I'd just kill him."
>"Dual wielding shields isn't realistic, as history shows."
>"wtf Paladins need to give any treasure they find to the group, he falls"

>>51227110
Dungeon World

>>51227185
Dungeon World isn't OSR, isn't based on OD&D, and is shit.

>>51227202

>isn't OSR
True
>isn't based on OD&D
Also true
>and is shit
Your mom is shit.

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>>51227185
>"If one of MY PCs decided to dual-wield shields then I'd just kill him."
>Implying you could kill shieldwall masterrace.

>>51225317
>dwimmermount
Have been playing it for almost a year. The first few levels are generic and boring as fuck, but it gets better as you go down.

>deep carbon
Started running it two weeks ago. Works well, very flavorful and produces interesting situations. It's not easy to run, though: you'll have to read it two or three times just to understand what it is about, and there is a lot to keep in mind during the game, especially concerning the opposing party.

>maze of the blue medusa
I read it and plan to run it after DCO. You have to like weird and surealist stuff to enjoy it. There is a heavy emphasis on the "social" aspect of the dungeon: players will spend more time talking to people than planing fights. It looks promising.

>>51227185
Ah Dragonsfoot, where fun is forbidden and making any changes to the rules labels you as a bad person. I hate Dragonsfoot.

>>51227110
There is a hidden link on Lulu for printed OD&D, some anons might have it and share.

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Sup friends. I've been curious for a while about OSR stuff so I'm rolling a character in Swords & Wizardry so I can get a feel for how it works. I have a few questions for people who are more familiar with the game than I:
1. What happens if you roll poorly enough that you don't meet the requirements for any class? I'm assuming you would just reroll.
2. Why the fuck is Thief emphasized as the optional class instead of the Cleric? The classic trio is fighting man, magic-user, thief. Not really a concrete question here, but what gives?
3. It appears that the Wizard picks up spells by finding them as loot and rolling to see if he understands them. What happens if the Wizard doesn't find any spells as loot? How do you run this as a Referee? I've heard of this idea before but I've never played in a game that didn't just handwave this away, but it sounds like more of an important concept here.

Lastly, the character I'm rolling right now has the following stats:
>STR 5
>DEX 12
>CON 13
>INT 14
>WIS 14
>CHA 11
Should I make him a Cleric or a Wizard?

>>51227260
>>51227185
>dungeon world
>for beginners to RPGs
Stop it.

>>51227110
Sword & Wizardry Whitebox looks like the best choice, with those criteria.

>>51227434
Dungeon World is fine for beginner players, but not so fine for beginner gms.

>>51227428
>1. What happens if you roll poorly enough that you don't meet the requirements for any class? I'm assuming you would just reroll.
Most likely, yes.

>2. Why the fuck is Thief emphasized as the optional class instead of the Cleric? The classic trio is fighting man, magic-user, thief. Not really a concrete question here, but what gives?
Historically, the thief was added after the cleric in OD&D.

>3. It appears that the Wizard picks up spells by finding them as loot and rolling to see if he understands them. What happens if the Wizard doesn't find any spells as loot?
He looks for another dungeon, hoping that it will yield better loot.

>How do you run this as a Referee? I've heard of this idea before but I've never played in a game that didn't just handwave this away, but it sounds like more of an important concept here.
You just add spell scrolls to the loot? I'm not sure I understand the issue, here.

>Should I make him a Cleric or a Wizard?
Just pick the one you to play. Stats don't matter much.

>>51227202
>he took the b8

wew

>>51227295
He was advocating a "no save Bolt from the Blue", an old Gygax trick of having a player take Xd6 damage for not following the railroad.

>>51227428
>The classic trio is fighting man, magic-user, thief.
You almost got me, great b8 my dude

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Requests for encounters?

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>>51227574
>>51227599
But it makes perfect sense, they all have their own specialized approach to problems. One of them fights things, one of them does thief stuff, the third one casts magical spells. Apparently the "original" trio was just one guy who fights and two people who cast spells, which isn't a trio at all. The name "magic-user" doesn't even make sense then, either, because there are two people who use magic, just different kinds. It's like the party from the Hobbit without Bilbo for heaven's sakes. Wasn't one of the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser duo more of a thief, too? I haven't read those books so I don't know for sure but I'm pretty sure neither one was a magic-user of any sort.

Man, if that really is what's original then fuck original. Thieves are cool as shit. Fighting man magic-user thief is the CLASSIC trio, and I'll die saying it.

Thanks for the advice anyway!

>>51227765
The idea is that OD&D characters are all thieves, regardless of class: they are here to plunder riches and run away as fast as they can.
The concept of "you need a thief class to do thief stuff" does not realy hold any ground.

>>51227551

I disagree, I ran it the first time I ever GMed, and it went great.

>>51227765
We had enough debate about the "essential core classes" meme in the last thread, quit trying to stir shit up.

>>51227574
>Historically, the thief was added after the cleric in OD&D

Threadly reminder that OD&D only contained things common to both Greyhawk and Blackmoor. The reason the Thief wasn't in it is that Greyhawk thieves were mechanically different from Arneson's version in Blackmoor.
Also virtually nobody saw OD&D prior to Greyhawk's release, as the time period was short and the first print run was truly tiny.

There are solid arguments against the thief, but the argument that OD&D didn't have them sucks.

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>>51227765
The Grey Mouser was a Wizards Apprentice. A better rogue, tho.

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>>51227765
Thieves weren't part of the OD&D Whitebox. They were added in a supplement (Greyhawk IIRC?)
All adventures are generally assumed to be semi-competent at all adventuring activities.

Trap disarmament (etc.) was handled with the same central resolution mechanic as everything else,
describing how you plan on doing it, and letting the referee arbitrate a reasonable outcome.
Even with a thief, you were expected to do it that way (up 'til 2e, at least).

Thief abilities are basically just insurance. The chance of success is terrible, because you aren't supposed to rely on them.
And they're outright supernatural powers, to boot. You could tap dance through the halls blindfolded and still get your stealth bonus.

>>51223889
stonehell has the same problem as Dwimmermount, but magnified. Namely, too much verticality, and not enough means to use it in a meaningful manner.

There are a lot of floors where there are floor-factions, who might have reasons to interact, but no links up or down. There aren't enough stairs, chasms, lifts or other ways to move up and down through the dungeon. There aren't enough 'shortcut' entrances to deeper within the dungeon- you'd have to really encourage the players to just take over the upper floors of the dungeon for it to be at all bearable.

Beyond that, there are a LOT of very dull rooms. This is sort of normal for megadungeons, but it's still going to bite when you hit the 10th 'this is a room full of dusty, ruined furniture'. Encounter tables and general usability are better for stonehell than they are for dwimmermount. Dwimmermount is much more cohesive however, and has more interesting 'unsolved questions' and campaign leads.

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>>51227656
Desert encounters?
Ethereal plane encounters?
Outer space encounters?
Elfland encounters?
not!Russia encounters?

>>51227656
kitchenworks of the megadungeon

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Has anyone managed to get a copy of ASE #2-3?

>>51227885
Sorry, I honestly had no idea. I just like rogues, specifically lovable ones, as opposed to edgy ones. My first character was one, in AD&D, back in high school. Not trying to start shit, I swear.

>>51227765
>Apparently the "original" trio was just one guy who fights and two people who cast spells
It was originally a duo, Clerics were added near the end of development and almost certainly after Thieves.
But we *just* had this argument, go jack off to the old thread (>>51199693) if you're so inclined.

>>51227428
>What happens if you roll poorly enough that you don't meet the requirements for any class? I'm assuming you would just reroll.
I thought Fighting-Men didn't have prereqs? Maybe I'm remembering that wrong.

>>51228415
>I thought Fighting-Men didn't have prereqs? Maybe I'm remembering that wrong.
It says "prime attribute: Strength, 13+ (+5% experience bonus)" which is, I think, the same as what all the other classes say about their prime attributes. Maybe I was wrong in assuming it was a requirement.

What character sheets are the best for BFRPG? My group dislikes the default one, problem is there's a whole bunch on the main website I don't know which one to pick. Any suggestions?

>>51228068
>You could tap dance through the halls blindfolded and still get your stealth bonus.
or not, because that's fucking stupid and any reasonable DM would say so

>>51221903
>Have you ever had dogs or other pets in your games that people grew very attached to?
One of my players in an AD&D 1e game had a pet rat. Said player was able to find a few scrolls of "Speak with Animals" and they had a blast using the rat as a spy.

>>51228496
>Maybe I was wrong in assuming it was a requirement.
Yup. That's saying Fighters with at least 13 Strength earn 5% extra xp.

>>51228574
I suppose you don't let people roll to Open Locks against stuck doors, either.

>>51229086
If you aren't playing AD&D® by the book then you aren't playing AD&D®

>>51229515
Go away Gygax

>>51229086
That's what your open doors check is for.

>>51230041

Even worse, it's Corporate Mouthpiece Gygax, the least collectible one!

>>51230097
I thought that was "I'm going to Hollywood and pushing a horrible movie so thank God it never got off the ground" Gygax.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/tabletop/features/14604-Inside-Lost-1980s-Dungeons-Dragons-Movie-Gary-Gygax-Loved

>>51230041
>>51230097
>>51230135
Yes, AD&D is a long dead system. Instead consider purchasing Gary Gygax's Lejendary Adventure™, an infinitely more balanced and polished system for discerning enthusiasts of fantasy role-playing.

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>>51229086
No amount of fiddling with the lock is going to get that swollen wooden panel unstuck from the stone frame, anon. Then again, I bet you're the kind of player who forgets to bring a crowbar, too.

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>>51230173
Incidentally (speaking of tools), I love how you can see that the knife blade in that Roman one was really damned good steel, and the rest of the thing is basically pot metal.

>>51230204
>I love how you can see that the knife blade in that Roman one was really damned good steel, and the rest of the thing is basically pot metal.

You mean like every multitool?

>>51230135

Speaking of movies, what would be considered OSR-tier in terms of fantasy film?

>game bill itself as OSR
>uses 3.x ability modifiers and saving throws

[doubt]

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>>51230277
Wizards.

>>51230277
Big Trouble in Little China has several literal dungeoncrawls.

The Thing and Alien are both about being trapped in dungeons with a killer monster.

Escape from New York has a mega-dungeon.

>>51230289

But which ability modifiers are the best modifiers?

>>51228148
Rappan Athuk?

>>51229515
>If you aren't playing AD&D® by the book then you aren't playing AD&D®
I'm not playing AD&D.

What should an evil sentient star be capable of doing to the populace of a planet?

>>51231018
Eternal day/night
Induce madness
Fuck with magic/laws of reality if you wanna.

>>51230171
Anyone ever play that?

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>>51231018

>>51231018
Disintegration. Drought. Blinding brightness. Cause disease (cancer). Heat metal. Evaporate water (or induce scalding). Bleach everything.

>>51230873
Oh, nevermind then. But do recall that the D&D® Basic Set™ is only for women and children, who are by nature too simple-minded to grasp the mechanical superiority of AD&D®

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>>51231240

>>51227110
OD&D
Labyrinth Lord
BFRPG
Swords & Wizardry

>>51227398
I would like this.

>>51231418
These, particularly BFRPG

>>51231018
Filling their day-dreams with malevolent lore and blessings of seeing what others may not. This comes with the sun's brand, glowing eyes that eventually burn through the head.

Alternatively solar flares that fuck up satellite god reception.

>>51231018
4e Dark Sun

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How well would this work for the system/campaign I am working on?

There are races with perks, but no set classes (ala Skyrim or something). You basically flesh out your character by choosing one of 3 options when leveling: AB, Skills or Saves.

>>51231594
why not play gurps

>>51231697
Never really tried it. I have the 3rd edition corebook that I picked up at a Goodwill a few years back, but it always seemed so crunchy.

>>51231594
It's weird that only Hobbits have a disadvantage.
It's also weird that Hobbits can hold their breath for hours.
It's also weird that not all hit dice are the same.

And considering there's free choice of race, Humans seem really weak.
Orcs in particular shit all over everything everyone else gets.

Not sure how good mutations are, but I'm predicting:
1-2 Elves per party (scouts), and everyone else rolls an Orc.

>>51231697
why not shit up pf general

>there's an official Dying Earth RPG
>it's a horrific hybrid of Palladium-esque minutiae with storygame snobbishness

lol(?)

>>51231594
>8 saving throw categories

Just fuck my game up familia.

>>51231697
Now now, Anon, keep it oldschool. He should play The Fantasy Trip or Heroes & Other Worlds.

>>51231835
Speaking of TFT, how are those Legends retroclone modules?

>>51231771
Corvans also have a disadvantage. It's really just due to size disallowing use of heavy shit.

Should I add a disadvantage for everyone?
Should humans start with 4 Skillpoints instead of 2? XP bonuses?
Should I change the Halflings underwater hours to Turns?
Orcs are meant to be the tanks, really. Should their disadvantage perhaps be in not getting skillpoint options?

>>51231835
8 categories, but only one number. Mostly there are so many because I wanna have rare armor that gives specific perks (Gasmasks, hazmat suits, welding goggles, etc...)

I'll shill my homebrew here.

>Fighters, get +1 to hit per level. If your attack roll is 19 or 20 you get go do a free combat move like attempt a trip or disarm OR deal +1 damage
>Thieves, stealth bonus, +1 to hit per level with sneak attacks, get a hunch roll (roll d20 start of adventure, use that roll once if you want)
>Zealots (clerics), have favor dice (d6) equal to level can be used to heal, turn undead, or smite. Restored by religious service.
>Magicians, 1 spell slot per level. Have to prepare spells still, but no limits on how many spells cast per day. Can use up a spell slot to create a permanent magic item or other enchantment
>All classes have a universal saving throw that gets better slowly as they level, plus a specific bonus based on class

How does this sound for a good lineup of classes?

>>51231072
I knew someone that owned a signed copy. She kept it in a cardboard box along with an old Mechwarrior RPG copy, don't know if she ever played it.

>>51231594
>stuff i like
>post apoc fantasy vibe, mutations
>waterworld ear gills
>picking attack bonus, save, skill as you level

>stuff I'm not sure about
>halflings with waterworld ear gills
>orcs being d10 hd AND dmg increase, seems huge
>skills, need to see a list and know how they work to see if the human +2 does much of anything
>so many save categories

mite be cool, need more info

Which parts of ACKS are absolutely crucial to.understand before running it? Cause I still don't get some of it after a once over.

>>51231917
Well, what don't you get?

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>>51231880
>4 classes
>2 casters

>>51231906
Its something I'm working on based off my old hack Ruinations.
>https://www.docdroid.net/FrxCKOl/ruinations.pdf.html
Take a look at that for an idea of what skills exist. Its a LotFP based hack.

I think ill knock Orc HD down to d8. I do want them to be the sort of heavy-hitters tho. Its what they were quite literally bred to do.

I could easily condense the saves to the traditional 5, but it takes away from rare items I wanna sprinkle throughout the land (a gasmask should only add a bonus to, you know, gas, not all Area effects.)

>>51231872
>Corvans also have a disadvantage.
I didn't even notice, since they're so underwhelming.

>Should I add a disadvantage for everyone?
>Should humans start with 4 Skillpoints instead of 2? XP bonuses?
I'm not sure how valuable skillpoints are intended to be, but you made them a level up choice?
Here's my thoughts: Humans' special trait is to start with sufficient xp to be level 3.
So... subhumans outperform Humans, but (especially under high attrition) Humans are the "safest" choice.
>Should I change the Halflings underwater hours to Turns?
Why are Hobbits the amphibious race at all? And how often will swimming even come up?
>Orcs are meant to be the tanks, really.
So why did you make them the damage dealers too?
>Should their disadvantage perhaps be in not getting skillpoint options?
Neat idea, goes well with their aesthetic. Still not sure how valuable those are.

>>51231771
>shit up pf general
Because shitting up a sewer makes no difference

>>51231872
You don't even need separate saves then!
Just have the items say, "bonus to saves against such and such" or "bonus to saves causing blah."

>>51231934
Just shut up, it's his homebrew. Don't like, don't play it. But at least give some positive feedback
>>51231880
What exactly do you mean "specific"? Like Thieves are better at avoiding traps, Fighters poisons and things like that? Also, do you have races or is it just humans?

>>51231989
D8 hd and a damage bump is pretty strong. If you go with d10, maybe cut back their potential for skill advancement, limit them to only 1 point. I'd go with d8 and 1 skill point per level but I'm an asshole. Depends on how far from baseline human the demihumans are suppose to be. You could have the dwarves be d6hd, the +1 con is already decent, which would show the orcs as something specifically made for combat instead of just being tough.

I get what you mean about the saves. What would you do if its a stun gas, or a poison gas? I think you can probably just add text for specific things like gas masks to take care of that save. Same for blindness if that's just when something bright and shitty happens near you, but I'm a fan of less saves.

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>>51232109
>shitting outside of a sewer
There's a time and place for everything, but not now!

>>51229515
Yup, you either play the game as written or you play AT the game. D&D is a game that encourages free-wheeling additions and alterations. AD&D™ is a complete system accepting no alterations, immutable—only able to be altered by its Author or TSR, Inc.

>>51230171
Nope, according to Gygax that falls under the blanket term "Generic Fantasy Roleplaying Adventure" and is by definition strictly inferior to AD&D™

>>51231240
Absolutely. As a strictly inferior system, the D&D game makes no distinction between female and male ability ranges. This is in order to cater to its target audience, women and babbies.

>>51232076
Skillpoints are valuable in the sense of wanting to be good at skills like a Specialist. So it really depends on your playstyle. Are you a Fighter or a Specialist? Magic is free to use by anyone because it's only in item form in this setting.

Hobbits are the amphibious race because I said so. Swimming will happen as much as the adventure calls for. (Their city is moored over an underwater vault that hasn't been opened yet.)

Orcs are damage dealers because they were bred to be government soldiers. They're the Supermutants of this. I do think I should lower it to d8 HD, but I was basing it off the BFRPG Orc race supplement mixed with LotFP Dwarf. I think limiting their ability to up skills is wise. Maybe instead of 1 damage dice higher, ill just do a +1 STR mod?

>>51232138
I suppose as a GM I'd dictate it should be a Gas save for those.
As far as there being so many, it's really just the GM knowing there are 8 of them and what this particular moment calls for. They wouldnt all be listed on the player's sheet.
"Make a save against this gas/electricity/radiation!" Everyone sees one Save number on their sheet, sees whether they have a written down bonus or not against it and rolls.

>>51230366
AD&D or OD&D probably.

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>>51232243
>>51232235
Just... Please, stop.

>>51227765
F/m/c is the classic trio, actually. Thief is just a fuckin superfluous fanboy addition. If you're going to pollute the milieu with thieves, at least have the fucking decency to make them GOOD thieves like in Warlock. Christ.

>HUrr durr I haz a 10% to find traps coupled with a 10% chance to remove the trap, so a net 1%, CLEARLY that means thieves have supernatural levels of competence xD

>>51228415
>and almost certainly after Thieves.

Considering thieves only showed up after clerics, are Air Breathing Mermaid: The Class, and were a fan suggestion hastily scrawled on a napkin, I seriously doubt it.

I swear I fucking hallucinated some point at which gnomes both got elven stealth and dwarven dodge bonuses vs giant classes, but I think I am wrong.

>>51227185
>Dungeon World
Just no. It's a modernist wishy-washy wannabe narrativist system of rules and not even close to being good at that.

>>51232404
It's not supernatural competence, it's supernatural methods.

>>51230366
OD&D 3LBB hands down.

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>>51232404
>Thief is just a fuckin superfluous fanboy addition

>Both Gygax and Arneson had thieves, probably before OD&D was even published

>fanboy addition

The fuck am I reading.

>>51232128

Yes, but not poisons specifically. Fighters get a bonus to combat saves, like when somebody tries to trip or blind them. Thieves get hazards, which include traps and environmental hazards. Zealots get saves vs death and disease. And Magicians get saves vs magic obviously.

That's what all the classes get as they level. I just want to make sure they're all strong enough.

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Can anyone come up with some cool mythos for ice discs? I head of them for the first time and they sound Neat.

>>51227110
Delving Deeper, maybe?

>>51232606
As in "a fanboy presented the class, the notes were scrawled down into a book, and promptly never inspected or analyzed until late 2e."

>>51232473
>Taking bait from six hours ago

Yes, we know you anti-Dungeon World people have this weird kneejerk response, but can you possibly curb it a bit?

What do you like and dislike in modules? In terms of organization, layout and writing?

>>51232655
I hate room descriptions that give 0% fluff. Even if its a broom closet, give me something to work with.

>>51232635
hey now, those notes were type-written! And actually the original fan submitted thief was very different, in that it had to memorize its special abilities like a caster.

>>51232628
Leaks from the Elemental Plane of Ice. Can the PCs stop Cryonax from opening them into full-scale portals or will the world fall into eternal winter?

>>51232655
>writing
Purple prose. There's a really egregious line in Castle Spulzeer that goes something like "Despite their appearance, the wood of the doors is quite rotten. Like the inhabitants of the castle, their appearance belies their inner corruption."

Don't write shit like that.

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Ok, here's the beginning starmap of my space fantasy campaign. This is the DMs version, im going to take it and make a more artsy and less spoilery version for my players. There is a possible thing to do in every one. Barren systems have an encounter chance for their thing to happen. If it has special coloured text, it's real important. The players will start at the Rock of Bral and have a choice of quests to begin.

Did I do good? I've yet to name them all, and incorporate a great deal of mechanics to it, but I think im well on my way.

Still looking for a sort of 40k-esque warp encounter table that's OSR compatible.

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>>51231240
Reminder that Gygax exclusively ran LEJENDARY ADVENTURE in his twilight.

>>51232864
>sphere Are these Spelljammer-esque?
Remember that some routes can be one-way.

>>51232606
Playing at the World has the full story of the Thief, but no, Gygax didn't have it before OD&D was published, the guy(=fanboy) who invented the Thief called him long-distance from California to tell him about it, and Gygax included his half-understood version of it in Greyhawk. I'm not sure Gygax ever used it in the actual Greyhawk campaign; all the stories I've ever seen from Castle Greyhawk are about either fighters or magic-users, except for that one about the Orb of the Clerics.

I like the Thief as a role myself, but it's pretty clear that any stories of it being in the two original campaigns before OD&D came out are apocryphal. Also, the Complete Warlock version is clearly superior, fite me

>>51233021
I think have a copy of this somewhere, but I only skimmed it a long time ago.

Did anyone ever play it?

>>51232655
Like: Basically everything about Keep on the Borderlands

Dislike: Ebic plots to save the world!

>>51232864
Looks good to me, anon. Not sure exactly why there are routes, though -- isn't it space? can't you fly from any one point to any other?

>>51232635
Well, that's hw OD&D works. You can just add a class if you feel like it and wing it during the play. It's not very concerned about achieving exact balance on paper, it's more about player skill and GM's rulings.

Just gonna leave this here for future generations http://playingattheworld.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/gygaxs-thief-addition-1974.html

>>51233067
>Did anyone ever play it?
Only Gygax.

Why does it matter what came first, the thief or the cleric? OSR shouldn't be about slavishly following old stuff just because it's old, it should be about looking to the past for inspiration, taking what works and ditching what didn't.

>>51233049
Yes and you make a good point. I haven't decided what routes should or shouldn't be one way either. What would be appropriate for that sort of thing?

>>51233021
No its kind of like Spelljammer where routes connect Spheres. Except in my case instead of Phlogiston it's the Warp.

>>51233324

I'm with you, if you want to argue that the thief is badly designed, I can see that, but if you want to argue that the thief doesn't belong because he wasn't there first, I'm not interested. That kind of "authenticity" argument is for antiquers and punk rock kids. I'm more interested in validity than authenticity.

>>51233374
Amen. I couln't give a fuck less about what Gygax's notebook had jotted down. Thieves are a fine addition to D&D and fill a niche.

>>51230204
>skeleton key
>screw auger
>several chisels
>files
>what appears to be a pair of burins
>saw
>delicate blades
...it actually is a set of thieves' tools, what the fuck.

>>51225317
I wouldnt say DCO is really a megadungeon, more a really big overland adventure with some medium to large dungeons thrown in.

To what extent would /osrg/ class hard overland travel as a 'dungeon' for these purposes?

Why didn't Gygax hack OSRIC into his own version of 2e?

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>>51233484
>>51233374
Thieves were the original Chandelier Swinger prestige class.

>>51233522
Seems finicky.
>>51230204
Does that easily disassemble to replace broken tools?

>>51233597
No. Thieves are just skilled with a lack of combat. If not everyone should be able to cast magic missiles, why should everyone be able to charm a lock?

>>51233654
>a lack of combat
Tbqh this is my main problem with thieves. Does anyone know a good reason why they shouldn't have cleric HD, fighter attack progression and just be limited to using swords, daggers, clubs and leather armor? Losing the armor and a hit die size seems like tradeoff enough for thief skills.

>>51233791
Because then everyone will bitch about the Thief being OP.

>>51233931
But will it actually be OP? I don't care about the bitching as such.

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>>51230277
>Speaking of movies, what would be considered OSR-tier in terms of fantasy film?
There are a shitload, but these are the ones that make me want to play a game every time I see them:
The Thirteenth Warrior (Dungeon crawl, high lethality, orks)
Le Pacte Des Loupes/Brotherhood of the Wolf (Dungeon crawl, high-HD monster, political shenannigans, lotsa murder)
The Hidden Fortress (Hexcrawl, murder)
Evil Dead/Evil Dead II (Pretty classic one-page dungeon material, high lethality)
Record of Lodoss War (Literally a D&D replay, where a low-level party goes in and cleans up the mess the original party, now all name-level, left behind)
Yojimbo/For a Fistful of Dollars/Last Man Standing (Another great hexcrawl location/town drama, and inspiration for several modules. Plus, good for factionbuilding).
The Golden Voyage of Sindbad (Best wizard ever put in a film, animated statues, Appendix N included it for fuck's sake watch this now)
On that note, Jason and the Argonauts and The 7th Voyage of Sindbad are also fucking amazing.
The 1960s House on Haunted Hill (excellent example of how to run multiple factions in a haunting)

>>51234059
>Record of Lodoss War (Literally a D&D replay, where a low-level party goes in and cleans up the mess the original party, now all name-level, left behind)
Tangent warning, but I always wondered about this: is Lodoss those guys' second game and they actually ran the first one as well, or was that just how the DM did his worldbuilding? It seems like the Japanesebros like that kind of world building, where the "adventuring party" is a thing in in-game culture.

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>>51232655
>What do you like and dislike in modules? In terms of
>organization
Basic outline, dramatis personae, locations/descriptions, faction information, Endgames, lists of magic items/spells/ monsters/NPC stats, maps. Make sure the rules additions (if any) are noted in the damned ToC

>layout
Each two-page spread, or small group, of descriptions should have a mini-map on it for ease of running. See Maze of the Blue Medusa or Forgive Us for good examples

>writing?
Be clear, be consistent in tone, and don't split up critical rules for running the fucking thing all over the goddamned model.

In addition, I prefer some rumors and goals for the factions involved, which makes it easier to hook the players in. I also like "trappy" treasures that are hard to remove but valuable, and weird but neat stuff that'll tempt the players to keep it instead of selling it off. An actual treasure map or two leading outside the area (with the accompanying puzzles or maps for the players to work with) would be fucking amazing, since almost no-one has ever done it in a published book.
A unique monster that's part of a puzzle or requires some thought to kill is always great. So are people that are there for reasons other than getting killed and robbed.

And please, for the love of Christ, use a consistent, easy-to-read font. My eyes are shit, and I spend enough of my day job poring over shitty 17th-century orthography and type trying to puzzle the shit out. Please don't make me do it in my hobby, too.

>>51233107
>Not sure exactly why there are routes, though -- isn't it space? can't you fly from any one point to any other?

Imagine that map with a 3rd plane of reference. Systems that look right next to each other on a 2d starmap could potentially be hundreds of light years away from each other and travel between those might be more impractical than another route.

Even though two systems without a route are right next to each other visually, there isn't an indicated route because they're actually VERY distant from one another.

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>>51233522
>...it actually is a set of thieves' tools, what the fuck.
Artillerist's, IIRC, but why do you think I saved it? Some pretty good shit there.
>>51233597
>Does that easily disassemble to replace broken tools?
It appears that they're riveted in place in that example (so there's no interruption in the engravings), although I've seen plainer versions in the flesh that screw or bolt together. The Roman and early medieval multitools like in 51230173 usually use punchable pins or very simple rivets. Those make it extremely easy to repair and replace parts.

>>51234121
Given that Deedlit was a member of the original party and appears to be a GMPC I'd say probably not. Also, the TV series and OVA have markedly different plot details but elements of the OVA are assumed to have taken place before the TV series starts, so canon in the thing is pretty sketchy to begin with.

>>51230204
>I love how you can see that the knife blade in that Roman one was really damned good steel, and the rest of the thing is basically pot metal.

Just looks like lense flare from a light anon. The condition of the metal seems to be comparable to the rest of the set.

>>51234324
I don't think he's referring to the spikelike blade bottom right, but to the hank of rusted-to-shit carbon steel which used to be a blade, on the top of the image, opposite the other tools.

>>51234324
>Just looks like lense flare from a light anon.
JJ please leave.

>>51234322
>the TV series and OVA have markedly different plot details but elements of the OVA are assumed to have taken place before the TV series starts, so canon in the thing is pretty sketchy to begin with.
Well, that's to be expected from adaptations. I guess I have to read up on the original replay novels...

Anyone else having an issue opening the MEGA link on mobile? Used to work for me before.

>>51234322
>>51234450
>the female elf Deedlit in Record of Lodoss War, who was played by science fiction novelist Hiroshi Yamamoto during the RPG sessions.

Looks like the original replays aren't really available either, just "retakes" played with their own (proto-Sword World?) homebrew rules. Who the hell replays a campaign they already played like that? Jap RPG culture's weird.

>>51234482
I used to have issues with MEGA on mobile, but as of ~2 weeks ago I've been fine.

>>51232128
>Also, do you have races or is it just humans?

Forgot this bit, yes there are other races but I'm not planning on race as class yet. I'm also not sure if I'm even going to give any stat bonuses either.

>>51227339

>forbidden
>any

You are over-generalizing.

>>51227860

All hail the original murderhobos. For they have shown us the way.

>>51228548

Treat it like shopping for carpet or paint. Put a bunch of samples out on the table and have your groups choose from what they like.

>>51229086

errr bash door?

>>51231240

you funny anon.

>>51228170
Filename is on point.

>>51228170
What book is that from?

>>51235771
Rules Cyclopedia. You can tell by the arabesques.

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>>51228213
I'm interested too. If no one has it, I'll buy and upload in a few days when I get around to it. the pdf price is bs all digital product should be donate what you want imo but since it can go in the trove, whatever

anyone run ASE 1 before?

>>51233484
>>51233374
I don't think anyone is arguing that. The question is what the fundamental classes were that the core game was balanced with in mind. For example: STR, INT, WIS are all stats that have no effect on your character beyond being prime req of fighter, magic user and cleric respectively. DEX, CHA and CON, however, have effects external class. The 6 stats can be separated into 2 distinct groups - unless you include the Thief, whose prime req is DEX, which undermines that balance y including the only 'original' class to have a prime stat that also has modifier bonuses. The misbalance was only (partially) remedied by tacking modifier bonuses onto STR, INT & WIS in later editions.

>>51236104

On the one hand, that makes the Thief stronger, so yes, it's affecting balance. On the other hand, the thief as a class is STILL underpowered in spite of this, so I don't see that as a balance issue worth noting.

>>51236279
I mean the balance of 3 "class" stats (with 1 primary class for each stat) and 3 "character" stats (with important game bonuses for each stat), not game balance.

>>51236319

Yeah, I can see that. Still that's kind of an aesthetics complaint, isn't it? And I think it could easily be solved by setting his prime to WIS as well, and having him be cunning and world-wise.

So I'm reading A Red And Pleasant Land and I have a bit of trouble figuring out how level drain is supposed to work. Do the players lose experience to the point of being back at the previous level, or do they lose a level without losing experience, making it so the levels go back if more experience is attained? How should hitpoints be removed, by rolling the hit die again?

Has anyone managed to snag the newest Stars Without Number supplement? Being stuffed into a pdf bundle until next month sometime is inconvenient to say the least.

Do games really need a max level of 20? Is name level fine for max level or so?

I just wonder if players mind being given an experience chart that goes up to 10 or so and no further.

>>51236762
It's fine. Players who complain about that wouldn't play from 1-20 anyway.

>>51231240
>>51229515
Hi Spoony

>>51236762
>Do games really need a max level of 20? Is name level fine for max level or so?
No and yes. OD&D literally goes to name level and then vaguely outlines what happens after that in leveling terms. Of course, people did end up playing the shit out of OD&D to the point of having 49th level demigod-fighters and shit, so...

Nevertheless, in Greyhawk, allegedly nobody ever got higher than level 16 (that was Robilar); First Fantasy Campaign mentions a couple people reaching level 20 in Blackmoor, which resulted in Arneson buying them dinner and the characters being retired. (It's also specifically mentioned that Greg Swenson kept his character from reaching 20 on purpose so he could keep playing him.) This suggests another advantage of Moldvay and Cook's B/X, which caps out at 14 (and incidentally, that's the only way I know of making the demihuman level caps make some kind of sense).

The mystic is on the rules cyclopedia, but where did it come from? It isn't on expert as far as I remember

>>51238025
It's from the Master set. Kind of.

The Thug and Mystic are in the monster section, see, and the Mystic is given a somewhat thorough write-up as an example of how to make a new class. Not all of that carried over into the RC, though - the varying fighting styles got lost in translation, for instance.

The Thug didn't get a proper PC write-up in the RC, but that's probably because it was a BECMI Assassin and 2E TSR had a "no evil PCs" policy going on for a while.

>>51235919
It's been asked about for a while so I don't think anyone has sprung for it. If you were to share it, that'd be really cool of you and you'd have my appreciation.

>>51238202
You have to wonder what they were thinking renaming the Assassin to the Thug, if they wanted to avoid moral panic.
>No, no, it's fine! It's not a hired murderer! It's a professional serial strangler! Who worships an evil foreign god which is really close to Satan but a woman as a bonus! CAN WE PLEASE TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE

>>51221903
I'm joining a game of AD&D 1e, and I want to make sure I understand how multiclassing works.

For starting HP, it seems to imply that you roll a HD for each class you have and then divide the sum by the number of classes you have, though it doesn't explicitly say that anywhere. So when you gain a level in one of your classes, do you roll just that class' HD and divide that by the number of classes you have to see how many HP you gain? Do you round up or down, or do you actually receive a fraction of a hit point if the result is a fraction?

I've heard that only elven fighter/magic-users can cast spells in armor and other kinds of fighter/magic-users cannot, though I can't find a rule for this written anywhere. Is that true?

If you're playing a campaign with nonweapon proficiencies, do you receive the full sum of starting proficiencies from each class, or do you take the average?

>>51238738
A lot of the multiclass rules are somewhat open to interpretation, so ask your DM.

>>51238738
>For starting HP, it seems to imply that you roll a HD for each class you have and then divide the sum by the number of classes you have, though it doesn't explicitly say that anywhere. So when you gain a level in one of your classes, do you roll just that class' HD and divide that by the number of classes you have to see how many HP you gain? Do you round up or down, or do you actually receive a fraction of a hit point if the result is a fraction?
Correct, correct, round down.

>I've heard that only elven fighter/magic-users can cast spells in armor and other kinds of fighter/magic-users cannot, though I can't find a rule for this written anywhere. Is that true?
I believe in 1E AD&D, elven fighter/mages can cast spells in magical elven chainmail only; it should say that either in the elf description or in the DMG's description of elven chain, I think.

This is one point where OD&D and Basic are superior, IMO. There Elves can cast in any armor, all the time, no matter what kind. I'd houserule it if I were you.

>If you're playing a campaign with nonweapon proficiencies, do you receive the full sum of starting proficiencies from each class, or do you take the average?
I don't think 1E has NWPs? Still, from my vague recollection of 2E I think you get your allotment from whichever class has the highest number of them, and then you can pick from all the classes' lists, or something. I haven't even read 2E for like ten years though, so...

Proposal: Thieves automatically succeed on opening locks, disarming traps, and so on. The roll is to see if they do it in a timely fashion without spending resources. If they succeed, they get the lock open right there and then. If they fail, then they still get the lock open, but not before breaking a few lockpicks and possibly triggering a random encounter roll.

>>51238914
That's pretty close to one of the common Thief skill interpretations, which is that you can reroll over and over, but each attempt takes a turn (expending the appropriate resources in light and with the attendant monster risk).

>>51238861
>This is one point where OD&D and Basic are superior, IMO. There Elves can cast in any armor, all the time, no matter what kind. I'd houserule it if I were you.
OD&D Elves are limited to magical armor, albeit any type - I don't remember how Basic did it, though.

However, do note that this is because the only magical armor in OD&D is plate.

>>51236486
honestly I'd just remove level drain as a mechanic, it's just a huge pain in the ass that only really exists to piss off players(probably replace it with some sort of temporary malady instead)

>>51236762
nothing inherently wrong with the level 20 cap, although it works better in WOTC editions of D&D(and other non-OSR OGL clones) than it does in TSR editions and OSR clones due to how leveling works in those editions, as >>51237929 points out the BX level cap of 14 works a lot better in an OSR context

>>51238914
I'd probably use it

>>51238861
A lot of the later 1e supplements use nonweapon proficiencies, and this DM is flooding us with options, including books and old Dragon magazines that I have no inclination to track down, so I figure he'll probably have nonweapon proficiencies, too.

>>51239062
You'll have to make sure to ask your DM, then - 1E's NWPs were very much a work in progress.

I kind of prefer OA's "peaceful proficiencies" myself, for instance, but that's because they're totally removed from ability scores.

Also, I think I remember hearing something about how Dungeoneer's Survival Guide and Wilderness Survival Guide disagree on whether or not a minus is good or bad?

>>51238998
>OD&D Elves are limited to magical armor
That's not entirely clear -- if you read it that way, magic-users and clerics can use non-magical halberds and crossbows.

I mean, I'll grant you that's what the book literally says, which is nothing to sneeze at. But there's pretty strong evidence they didn't mean it that way.

>>51239158
That's confusing. You're already trying to roll low on a d20 in a system where you usually want to roll high on a d20, and where +1 armor gives you -1 to AC.

>>51239292
No, like, the big question that they disagree about is whether or not a -4 in a skill is a penalty to the attribute (e.g. 10 WIS becomes rolling under 6, and thus harder) or a "penalty" to the roll (roll 1d20-4, try to get under 10 WIS - effectively roll under 14).

Or that's what I remember from the discussion, I haven't actually bothered leafing through those books.

Anyone got any advice on converting b/x monsters to DCC?
We're just first level, and I feel like the party Warrior is just cleaving them in half, with his d10+d3+2 attack

>>51239724
>d10+d3+2
Well, no shit. That's 4-15 damage, average 9.5, with a 92.08% chance of killing a 1d8hp critter.

How are DCC monsters designed? That's probably the guideline you should go by.

>>51239897
I'd love to, but I don't feel the guidelines are that clear on this issue. I'm just considering giving every monster an extra d6 of HP to make up for the difference.

Have you ever just ditched ability scores completely for a game?

>>51236486
>Do the players lose experience [...]?
Yes.
>How should hitpoints be removed [...]?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I subtract 1d6

>>51239403
Exactly, so a "-4" is either a 20% improvement or a 20% penalty, and it's not super clear which.

Does anyone have the newest printing of DCC that they'd be willing to share? The one in the trove is out of date.

>>51239061
I kind of think so too, but now we've already ran a session and some level drains happened. I'm going to have the players be able to do an unbinding ritual to get their levels (and humanity) back though, and after that the vampire bite does something less crazy.

>>51240227
I decided to subtract half of the class hit die every level.

>>51240227

>>51240546
So how do you handle gaining hit dice/hit points?
Every level I reroll everything, then keep whichever (new/old) is higher.

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I've been reading some grog blogs and something jumped out to me that made me confused.

Why do poeple think that "balanced party" is a 3.pf and AD&D thing?
This is a preface from x10.
Most other b/x adventures have something similar.

The game clearly expects you to have at least one cleric and one magic user or elf for the ride.

>>51240601
I just let them roll their hit die and add it to their max hp. I like your method though.

>>51240609
No idea, but wouldn't a balanced party be pretty hard to pull off in OSD&D what with the class requirements and all that?

>>51240609
It's one of the weird roundabout ways in which grogs end up being closer to newschool gaming that they would care to admit. ONLY ROLLPLAYERS MAKE OPTIMAL CHARACTER CHOICES and all that '90s era crud.

>>51240670
aren't the requirements on b/x just 9 in the main stat?
Since the assumption is 6 players, I guess they think someone would eventually get that 9 in the right place.

>>51240609
I think it was less of "BALANCED party" and more of "VERSATILE party".

>>51240726
the end result is the same tho
1 of each base class

>>51239061
>probably replace it with some sort of temporary malady instead

But level drain IS a temporary malady. You end up being behind a level for a couple of sessions, then you're right back up.

>>51240726
>>51240682

I don't know why some people are so vocally against it when people prefer that everyone play a different class. Maybe they see it as some sort of weird precursor to 3.x caster supremacy where a cleric and wizard were mandatory inclusions to any party.

>>51241012
Caster supremacy or not, I don't see how on-demand healing, high damage and utility toolkit spells are any less mandatory in pre-3.x D&D.

>>51241012
I'm totally fine with players choosing different classes. I don't think anyone is against that. I just don't like it when one player gets forced into playing a class they don't want to because "muh balanced party".

>>51240609
Eh, that's more just because at some point modules got somewhat linear and started requiring certain things for solving them. The "true" style of play - megadungeons - is quite a bit weirder, since the non-linearity means that you could go adventure as a solo first-level magic-user and still succeed on the trip.


The game certainly expects a healthy mix of character types for various reasons (just to start with, a mixed party is more versatile and able to respond to varied challenges), it's just that most of them are "soft" and you can work around them if you don't have those classes.

Things get a bit weirder once you start considering group sizes, though - for instance, note how your picture of X10 suggests 6-10 characters. That's the point where random attributes mean that you're actually likely to have a mixed party simply because it's mechanically non-optimal to make the low-CON low-STR guy a Fighter rather than a back-row class.


Also, X10 is BECMI and BECMI was all about a 2E-esque focus on story. Fuck, isn't X10 the big metaplotty diplomatic wargame campaign?

>>51241146
OD&D Clerics suck ass at healing, for one. Being unable to stick first-level spells in second-level slots hurts a bunch.

>>51241156
Well, enjoy dying because no one had remove poison
or enjoy that cursed sword of DM hatred because no one had remove curse

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What do you guys think is more balanced / fun for a OSR Barbarian class when it comes to Rage?
A) +3 to hit and damage
B) 2 weapon die in damage (ex 1d8 => 2d8)

>>51241275
They better enjoy it if they were such special snowflakes none of them could bite the bullet and play something that would support the party better.

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>>51241241
>Eh, that's more just because at some point modules got somewhat linear and started requiring certain things for solving them.
bullshit. You're trying to attribute a trend that only appeared at AD&D 2e to everything after OD&D.

>Also, X10 is BECMI and BECMI was all about a 2E-esque focus on story.
I wrote x10 but I mean X1. That preface is from x1 isle of dread. A very open beginners hexcrawl.

Either way here's one from b2, keep on the borderlands.

>>51241275
>Well, enjoy dying because no one had remove poison
Eh, sounds fine, PCs die all the time. At least they got to play a character they enjoyed.
>enjoy that cursed sword of DM hatred because no one had remove curse
Why are you playing with an asshole DM?
>>51241353
>They better enjoy it if they were such special snowflakes none of them could bite the bullet and play something that would support the party better
How is wanting to play a fighter instead of a MU or Cleric being a special snowflake? You don't have to get upset just because two players want to be fighters.

>>51241425
A constant that gets repeated over and over in the thread is that players shouldn't get that attached to PCs, and that they are to be used like pieces in chess. If players aren't using the pieces they should, fine by them - but then the DM has to balance the encounters now that they don't have the expected party composition (which is a no-no in sandbox gaming) or put them at risk of being completely run over without any chance of making it out by encounters they could otherwise deal with (which reasonably pisses off players) Why are you allowing players to put their own desires over the needs of the party, when D&D revolves around the common efforts of the party to get loot and treasure?

>>51241425
The idea that you get to choose your character instead of picking the class that best suits your random rolls is whats wrong here.

If timmy wanna be a fighter but rolled a 3 in str and a 14 in int tough fucking luck timmy youre a wizard now

>>51241547
Didn't you hear? The '90s called, and Timmy must play a Fighter with those stats for the sake of roleplay and story.

>>51241502
I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. Parties that aren't 100% "balanced" can still work fine if the players are smart enough.
>>51241547
If the player rolls stats that work for a class, and they want to play that class, they should be allowed to play that class. They shouldn't be FORCED to play something else if they don't want to. Would it increase the parties chance of success if they did? Probably, but they should still have the option. Hell even if they rolled shit stats to be a class and they're okay with that, that should be fine.
>>51241563
I never said anyone MUST PLAY anything. Please stop strawmanning.

>>51240609
>Why do poeple think that "balanced party" is a 3.pf and AD&D thing?
Uh, this one's kinda going to take while to untangle. Buckle your ass in.
First of all, the OSR is big enough to contain variation. One strain (the original one infact) is very HURR MUH AD&D; another likes B/X-style dungeon/wilderness gameplay with simple rules in a verisimilitudinous milieu. Yet another is "fuck it, let's go apeshit". These guys are the gonzo guys, and they typically ain't give a fuck about balance, at all. Like, it's okay that you die from one chop, but it's also okay (to take an example from Planet Algol) to give first-level PCs an item of raise dead with 50 charges that anybody can use. A lot of the "fuck balance" stuff comes out of these guys, who notably don't give a damn about a lot of the well-tuned exploration procedures beloved by /osrg/, or merely regard it as a very good frame to hang murderous robot clowns from.

The other thing is that a lot of grogs regard *inter-character balance* as insidious toxic bullshit. 3e did do a bunch of shit where it tried to standardize and make every given thing of a certain level/CR as exactly dangerous as every other (which it then promptly ruined by making wizards insanely OP, also hated), especially in combat. A lot of OSR types feel this was wrong-headed in about five ways at the time, but they may very well still think it's reasonable that the *party as a whole* should be well balanced to handle all types of challenges. And even failing that, they might think that warning the referee in advance about what sorts of abilities the module is written for is sensible even if the referee might not give a fuck himself -- same as with level ranges. (I certainly think so myself, and I don't see the quote in your pic as being much of an exhortation, just something along the lines of "note that there are gargoyles in this dungeon so if nobody has magic weapons they'll be spattered over the walls".)

>>51241734
>are the gonzo guys,
The true cancer
Every single thread consuming argument of the last few threads happened due to them.

>>51241856
>thief isn't cannon
>rocks op pls nerf
>gonzo

2/10 see me after class

>>51241971
Anon-sensei, why are you discussing hobbies with your students instead of teaching?

>>51242026
>Gutei raised his finger whenever he was asked a question about Zen. A boy attendant began to imitate him in this way. When anyone asked the boy what his master had preached about, the boy would raise his finger.

>Gutei heard about the boy's mischief. He seized him and cut off his finger. The boy cried and ran away. Gutei called and stopped him. When the boy turned his head to Gutei, Gutei raised up his own finger. In that instant the boy was enlightened.

>When Gutei was about to pass from this world he gathered his monks around him. "I attained my finger-Zen," he said, "from my teacher Tenryū, and in my whole life I could not exhaust it." Then he passed away.

>>51242108
>Mumon's comment: Enlightenment, which Gutei and the boy attained, has nothing to do with a finger. If anyone clings to a finger, Tenryū will be so disappointed that he will annihilate Gutei, the boy and the clinger all together.

>Gutei cheapens the teaching of Tenryū, Emancipating the boy with a knife. Compared to the Chinese god who pushed aside a mountain with one hand, Old Gutei is a poor imitator.

>>51242108
>>51242210
This doens't make any sense

>>51242271
I found it plain, actually.

Raising the finger in imitation of the master is no different from repeating his words and wisdom. You look wise but you're not really learning the stuff. When you free yourself from the finger/the empty forms and actually understand, that's when enlightenment comes.

>>51242271
I read it to mean that Anon-sensei isn't teaching because he's already dismembered all his students. Possibly for shitting up /osrg/. I endorse this.

>>51242345
nut why:

>Gutei cheapens the teaching of Tenryū, Emancipating the boy with a knife. Compared to the Chinese god who pushed aside a mountain with one hand, Old Gutei is a poor imitator.

>>51242373
Buddhist commentary can be catty as fuck sometimes, I don't know.

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If Encounter Anon is around: 50 ways to stop an unkillable wizard, please!

>>51242373
>nut why:
The second line was severing to,
> "I attained my finger-Zen," he said, "from my teacher Tenryū, and in my whole life I could not exhaust it."

Basically, Gutei acquired the habit of raising his finger from Tenryū. The same way the boy did from Gutei.
Gutei learned from his mistake, but by the time he had the damage was already done: Gutei became wise, but never as wise as Tenryū.

>>51242108
>>51242210
"I don't get this at all."

"I guess Gutei doesn't believe that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

"I like this story, for some reason, but I don't know what it means."

"Gutei is just trying to dominate and control the kid."

"Whose finger did Gutei hold up at the end - the boy's or his own?"

"Did the boy become enlightened because of Gutei, or just because his finger got cut off."

"This story hurts!"

"Yuck!"

"Weird!"

"You can't imitate or own enlightenment."

"Imitation is no substitute for real knowledge and truth."

"When you lose the single most important thing that means enlightenment to you, maybe that's when you REALLY become enlightened."

"You don't know what you've got till it's gone."

"I don't entirely understand this story, but I do believe that the finger pointed in the air might represent "one", as in "not two"..

"In the end the boy realized Gutei uses his index finger, not his middle finger. Gutei took exception to the boy using his middle finger."

"I sense that this story does tell a great truth, but I just can't see it in the darkness inside my head. I guess if I were enlightened, I could."

"When you can no longer point at truth, maybe that's when you see it most clearly."

"Stories like this make me want to lash out. Gutei becomes the enlightener, when maybe he should just lighten up. Now we know the reason for lawyers, To sew crazy old self appointed wise men that carry pocket knives."

>>51242560
>severing
*referencing

>TSR made a trilogy of adventures alla bout being sidekicks to this one boring NPC

>>51239897
>How are DCC monsters designed?
Like 3.x monsters.

>>51239724
Why not convert 3.x monsters instead? It's easier that way.

>>51241353
>muh meta
>muh team comps

I wasn't aware I was in /esports/

>>51243027
>>TSR made a trilogy of adventures alla bout being sidekicks to this one boring NPC
Hey, TSR published some pretty damn good adventures.

It's just that they also published some absolute dreck, like The Forest Oracle.

The worst part is when one part of a series is fuckin' great but another is mediocre at best, like in the Gazetteers. Guess that's what you get when you have one guy writing up Glantri and another writing up Ierendi, though.

>>51243027
>I wasn't aware I was in /esports/
Think again, pal, it's XCrawl time.

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>>51241146
>>51241156
>>51241275
I'm running a game with 2 Barbarians, 2 Fighters, and 4 Specialists right now. Cleric died a while ago of severe retardation, but everyone else is doing fine. Honestly, shotguns and hirelings do a pretty good job of replacing wizards most of the time. Granted, one of the players' henchman (and in-character wife) is a Witch, but her spells aren't all that impressive and she spends the majority of her time back in the party's base.

Clerics are useful but not critical to low-level crawling - they're basically a resource that extends the amount of time the party can spend Below, and only really get going in the level 2-5 range. It isn't until they get the anti-poison and curse stuff that Clerics start being useful in ways that can't be patched with potions and temple donations post-adventure.

>>51241345
>What do you guys think is more balanced / fun for a OSR Barbarian class when it comes to Rage?
Always Press (+4 TH, -2 AC), roll two damage dice and pick the best.


>>51241734
>regard it as a very good frame to hang murderous robot clowns from.
...I like you. I mean, I play a grotty historical game, but I drop a little gonzo into the dark corners of the Earth because (in moderation) it's fuckin' fun. Hell, sometimes I run a weird gonzo one-shot. Everyone probably should now and again just to get that shit out of their system.


>stuff about 3e wizards
The big problem there was that all of a caster's balancing factors in AD&D were metagame and resource-management ones (other than getting stabbed, anyway), and the late-2e/3e push to remove all of those for the sake of easy bookkeeping is what made them become woodchippers on the front of a bulldozer instead of just dangerous as fuck.

>>51242373
Honestly, IMO the explanation to that is just that Mumon is not a great commentator.

>>51243275
>2 Barbarians, 2 Fighters, and 4 Specialists
8 characters and 4 of them have the more powerful skills from LotFP, which is also a system that reduces the powers of casters and increases the powers of fighting classes and thieves.

So of course you have room for absorbing losses from not having a diverse party.

>>51243199
Specifically I'm referring to the Marco Volo adventure trilogy (Departure, Journey, Arrival)

>>51243646
Out of all things to bring back for 5E's nostalgia push, why Marco Volo?

>>51227656
Occurances while travelling through Astral Space? It's for a space fantasy game, the space between is like the Warp and the Void from K6BD.

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Goddamnit, Jim.

And people asking me "but how do you >know< he's a giant troll?" and I'm like, "read the motherfucker's blog".

I'm still crowdfunding the damned thing just to find out what's inside.

>>51243657
The guy behind Volo's Guides is actually a different guy with a similar nickname - Volothamp Geddarm. The plot of Departure kicks off with the two people being mixed up.

>>51243838
Huh, the more you know.

>>51243864
They had an NPC with the name Volo, and they had a guy who wanted to make a globe-trotting adventure with a guy punning on Marco Polo. A match made in heaven, really.

A review I found said that there's an Amadeus Wolfzart in The City of Greyhawk. I'm not sure whether to be glad at the levity or groan at the uninventiveness.

>>51243941
Is this the part where I point out that half the stuff on Oerth is an anagram of "Gary" or "Gygax"?

Do I even need to?

>>51244137
Hey, guess how Oerth is pronounced?

Also, incidentally, Aerth, Uerth, Uerth, Yarth, and Earth?

>>51244219
>Oerth?
Earth
>Aerth, Uerth, Uerth, Yarth, and Earth?
Gaia

>>51244219
The AEIOU System, the homeland of mystical race of Vo'Vvels.

Habitated planets include:
Aerth
Earth
Iorth
Oerth
Uerth

>>51244433
And sometimes Yerth, depending on if you still consider it a planet or not.

>>51243027
>Why not convert 3.x monsters instead? It's easier that way.
Is it? Does that even work?
Statblock kinda seems hellish

>>51244758
>Is it? Does that even work?
Dude, have you seen DCC statblocks?

Screamers (6): Init -4; Atk claw strike +3 melee (1d4, plus
DC 12 Fort save or take 1d3 radiation burn damage); AC 9;
HD 1d6; hp 4 ea; MV 20’; Act 1d20; SP undead, radiation
burn; SV Fort +4, Ref -4, Will +2.

The Hound of Hirot: Init +2; Atk bite +3 melee (1d8) or claw
+3 melee (1d4); AC 15; hp 4d12; hp 20; MV 30’ or fly 30’; Act
3d20; SP demon traits, gaseous form, immune to charm effects,
immortal; SV Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +0; AL C.

They're literally just slightly condensed 3.x stats.

>>51243835
seriously, is their cover design supposed to be one big in-joke or not? it's always fucking hideous but bloggers make a point of saying how good it is.

>>51245036
That cover looks like a mockup/placeholder...

There's some novelty value, and they set the tone for the modules. Icky subject matter aside, it's nice that they've established a house aesthetic that isn't just harkening back to nostalgia or mimicking WotC.

>>51244877
A bit longer than B/X ones, but they're nowhere close to being "condensed 3.x stats"
Especially considering it'd be easy to condense it even further.

>>51245193
>but they're nowhere close to being "condensed 3.x stats"
I'm not the fella you're replying to, but I could pull one of those stat blocks he posted and plop it into a game of D&D 3.5 without any modification. They're literally 3.5 statblocks with all the line breaks removed and some superfluous words cut out.

>>51245193
>they're nowhere close to being "condensed 3.x stats"

Compare this from a random 3.5 adventure:

Thorn: Female worg; CR 2; Medium magical
beast; HD 4d10+8; hp 34; Init +2; Spd 50 ft.; AC 15,
touch 13, flat-footed 13; Base Atk +4; Grp +7; Atk or Full
Atk +7 melee (1d6+4, bite); SA trip; SQ darkvision 60 ft.,
low-light vision, scent; AL NE; SV Fort +6, Ref +6, Will
+3; Str 17, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 6, Wis 14, Cha 10.
Skills and Feats: Hide +4, Jump +11, Listen +6, Move
Silently +6, Spot +6, Survival +4; Alertness, Track.

To these >>51244877
Now watch me "convert" it to DCC

Thorn: Init +2; Atk +7 melee (1d6+4, bite);
AC 15; HD 4d10; hp 34; MV 50'.;
Act 1d20; SP trip, darkvision 60 ft.,
low-light vision, scent; SV Fort +6, Ref +6, Will
+3; AL N.

"Referee" or "Dungeon Master"?

>>51246140
Depends. If it's telling a story and stuff, it's Dungeon Master. If you're just running a dungeon crawl, it's Referee.

>>51246161
DM if you're running D&D, Referee if you're running Traveller, GM if you're running anything else.

Grogs are so fucking afraid of 'story' that even common D&Disms like Dungeon Master scare them off.

>>51246233

"Referee" was the OD&D term. (Not that it makes it better or anything)

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Probably gonna run a pickup LL game for the first time in a few hours, very little time to prep, gonna be heading out in a bit. 4-5 players, all more or less new to D&D. What's a good quick minidungeon? something varied to get my friends a taste for the game, hopefully make it a regular thing. saw pdf related recommended in last thread, only thing I don't like is it's a bit linear, and I'd probably replace the fire bit with something more sensible.

also don't understand the fungus pit (R) or mirror trap (F). the only way to push the mirror to e is by passing c, no? is the trap meant to be players cover up the second mirror before pushing it? I think I'll replace all 3 segments. any recs? going through one page dungeon codex now for ideas.

>>51246259
Not everything OD&D did is set in stone, holy fuck.

>>51246353

That's what I meant when I said "Not that it makes it better or anything."

>>51246140
"Storyteller"

>>51246468
You joke but I heard it used as a generic term for GM for a long while.

>>51246468
>>51246508
storyteller makes me think of the 90s so I get traumatic flashbacks whenever I hear it

>>51232404
>at least have the fucking decency to make them GOOD thieves like in Warlock.
What are the thieves like in Warlock? I've never heard of that system. Or setting. I don't know what you mean by "Warlock."

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>>51228170
>>51235771

tl;dr
>>51244051

>>51246618
>I don't know what you mean by "Warlock."
http://blog.retroroleplaying.com/2012/05/caltechs-warlock-d-variant.html

>>51246577
>makes me think of the 90s so I get traumatic flashbacks whenever I hear it
So you're saying that it plunges your world into some kind of darkness, that it makes you feel forsaken or lost, or perhaps as though you've cast into some sort of oblivion?

>>51246839
There'll be a reckoning, for sure. Stand vigil for it.

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>>51246839
>>51246885
I HATE IT

>>51246915
just masquerade your feelings

>>51246781

Man, I had no idea they kept working on Warlock for twenty years after the original release.
Looking over that giant-ass pdf, I gotta say they really shouldn't have. Warlock 2000 is some 90s second-wave RPG autism writ large.

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>>51246933

>>51244219
I've always say it "ore" as in ore and "rth" as in hearth.

>>51246993
Man, you're making it sound like an apocalypse.

>>51246347
>the only way to push the mirror to e is by passing c, no?
Scratch off the engraving on c, cover the mirror as you take it past, trap c to hurt the clones as they arrive, etc.
If your players decide to do something clever sounding, reward them for it.

>also don't understand the fungus pit
You could probably kill the humanoid fungus from outside the pit? It's just an optional encounter with optional rewards.
Really though it's more like a trap, take a or b and you get attacked from above while you're down in a pit.

>>51246140
I prefer "referee" because it describes the role that I want for myself and as a bonus it doesn't sound like something that belongs on /d/.

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>>51247075
>engraving on c
Actually, c looks more like a mirror. Smash it, I guess?
Or you could wheel c past e, then bring m to e without them crossing?

>>51246140
Lejend Master©

>>51247168
/d/ungeon master is the best title shut up

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>>51246140
Interchange Moving Force, Creator, Designer, Arbiter, Overseer, Director, Umpire, Referee, and Judge depending on what they're actively doing at the time.
But usually it's Umpire, Referee, or Judge.

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Just wanting to add this here, found this last night while exploring the internets and I don't remember seeing it in the trove.

>>51247240
>>51247168
I personally hate 'referee' and 'umpire'. You're not arbitrating a sports match between two opposing teams, you're actually in one of the teams yourself. Even if you're running someone else's module and sticking to random reaction rolls and the like, it's still you making the calls (shall we say, the rulings instead of the rules) Referee and umpire imply a level of neutrality that just can't be present in RPGs.

(Incidentally, I have seen umpire in board games before - wargames, where the umpire is a truly neutral party that does not play the game at all but instead mediates between two or more opposed players.)

>>51232404
>>51246618
>>51246781
To clarify about the Thief for those of you who just tuned in, the reason Warlock keeps coming up is that the Warlock "variant" Thief is most likely closer to the original inventor's rules (he ran a hobby shop in California which was one of the big early adopters of OD&D out there). The Caltech guys would have been in a position to receive his ideas from himself at length, unlike Gygax who only spoke to him on the phone once and then wrote his own off the cuff. The result is a version that ends up being a lot more considered and functional; e.g. if you choose Pick Locks as a skill you start with 60% in it.

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>>51242499

Somebody else already did this one.

http://whatwouldconando.blogspot.com/2016/12/wizard-weaknesses.html

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So I'm rolling a character in Swords & Wizardry, just for fun.
>Magic-User
>Hit Dice: 1d4 (Gains 1 hp/level after 11th level.)
So if I'm rolling a character, are my starting hit points equal to one roll of a 1d4? I think that's how it works, but I'm having trouble finding anything that confirms that.

>>51247407
Yeah, roll 1d4 and that's your weedy wizard's HP.

>>51247407
Yes, also of note you can receive bonus hit points every level* from your constitution score.
*only levels where you've gained a hit die, so not levels 11+

People are a bit inconsistent on this, but that's how it works.
"Level 1 characters start with max possible hit points" is a popular house rule to reduce attrition, but even with that a level 1 fighter can go down in 1 hit from a goblin.

Another inconsistency is gaining hit points.
Some people say, "roll an extra die and add that to your total." Some people say, 'reroll everything, keep your old total if it's higher."

Referee or judge is too wargamey
Storyteller is too faggotey

Game Master or Dungeon Master are clearly the best choices.

TSR 2137 PDFs are always missing monsters (Lankhmar City of Adventure). There are 15 monster sheets in all the PDFs but they stop at S. Where's the Web, Living? Where's the Whale, Killer?

Anyone have the accessory with the original MC sheets?

>>51247407
>>51247455
>>51247486

Does anyone have a simple list or graphic that shows the 'everyone uses the same d6 HD' method for advancement for all classes?

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>>51247455
>>51247486
Thanks. I remember some of this stuff from when I first played AD&D in high school, but it's been a long time and we handwaved a lot of shit so I'm trying to make sure I understand the base rules before I go thinking about how I'd modify them in a game I were running.

For example, carry weight. Is everything on the "general equipment" table supposed to have negligible weight? It doesn't list how heavy that stuff is, unlike weapons.

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>>51247537
Here's a Basic conversion to all d6 HD.

>>51247658
What's the difference between "2+1" and "1+2" here?

>>51247501
Proof
http://lomion.de/cmm/weblivin.php

Proof
http://lomion.de/cmm/whale.php

While one would think these monsters come from TSR 2104 and TSR 2140, respectively, nevertheless Lomion insists they are from TSR 2137. Living Web even has a different picture than in MC3. What's the deal? Where did he get this Secret Information?

>>51247738
2 dice plus 1 point, vs 1 die plus 2 points.

>>51247738
2+1= 2 dice +1
1+2=1 die +2

standard HD notation, usually used for monsters tho

>>51247582
>Is everything on the "general equipment" table supposed to have negligible weight?
Probably not? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Use google to find reasonable weights, I guess.
It's also kind of weird that S&W doesn't do weights by the gold piece.

So, anybody here actually read through the entirety of Appendix N? What's the most worthwhile (both from an entertainment standpoint and from the perspective of likelihood to provide inspiration for an adventure or campaign)?

So far, all I've read is the Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stuff, which I absolutely love.

>>51247886
I've read through a bunch of it, but certainly not all. Some of it is apparently real shit, but Vance and Howard are both great.

Also there's this http://www.tor.com/features/series/advanced-readings-in-dungeons--dragons/ which is pretty cool

>>51247886
Vance and Moorcock are both brilliant, though somewhat on the gonzo side- Dying Earth has dick-ass wizards jumping through dimensions and into outer space to steal shit. Also obviously the inspiration for magic.
Moorcock's writing isn't stellar, but he has an amazing imagination and imagery. The use of Law and Chaos as tangible forces is lifted straight from the Eternal Champion series.

>>51247982
>The use of Law and Chaos as tangible forces is lifted straight from the Eternal Champion series.

It's also a thing in Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions, arguably more important for three-axis alignments..

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>>51247886
Don't forget to read John Bellairs' books for Young Adults also, not just his old man book about the wizards. There are more wizards who employ Vancian magic in the Young Adult gothic horror books.

>>51248013
Dostoyevsky's Brothers Karamazov / Tolkien's Lord of the Rings are the inspiration for the alignment chart

>>51221903
>Have you ever had dogs or other pets in your games that people grew very attached to?

When I was a kid my older bro was running a game for me and I had a really great horse named Shadow named after a dog that had recently passed. I miss Shadow

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>>51213963
>Absolutely. But the emphasis here is on "riffing", not "duplicating"
>not "duplicating"

They respirited it probably after getting a Cease & Desist, but that's literally a Beholder.