MY PLAYERS ARE SIDING WITH THE FUCKING DICTATOR ASSHAT BBEG BECAUSE

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make the BBEG betray them or something lmao

>>51205668
Make it obvious that this asshole is Evil, maybe even Saturday morning cartoon levels of Evil, and that the only reason he's in the position he is in is because he's charismatic as fuck.

You can also throw out an option of a rescue mission for the rebel girl, try to have them play it off of getting into the Dictator's inner circle to make it easier to kill him?

Then again, I don't know how smart your characters are.

>>51205668
Just demonstrate that he's a hypocritical asshole. Show that he can't or won't deliver what he promises and is only interested in advancing his own power.

I dunno, have him kill a bunch of people in horrible ways for no reason. Like he's just paranoid about them when they're obviously loyal or whatever.

This shit is easy.

>>51205668
What kind of asshat dictator things is the BBEG doing to other (preferably innocent) people? Show them that, maybe.

Let them have it.

Then show them how it turns to shit. How the dictator betrays the ideals the was parroting. What destruction their patriotism has wrought, when it erupts a war.

I'm not saying you have to make them regret the decision. But it should absolutely lead to more conflict.

>>51205668
Let it happen.

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>>51205668
> definitely not about Trump

>>51205668
>"BBEG"

Know how I know your campaign was shit from the start?

>>51205668
Tell them to keep real life politics out of the game.

>>51205812
Sorry, did you need a trigger warning?

Sounds like everything is going right. Long live El Presidente!

>>51205668
Man that sounds like a pretty great subversion of the standard plot. "Oh the lord is evil and opressive, please help us overthrow him in a rebellion." "He seems pretty chill, and rebellions often just replace one dictator with another plus a lot of bloodshed so..." "But I'm cute..." "sorry, get in the heleocopter."

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>>51205668
Watch The Last King of Scotland.

Make something of the situation, don't panic and do anything stupid.

Liberal BTFO.

Fuck off sjw trash. Burn the party notes and leave the game.

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I honestly do not see the problem.

Fuck rebel scum.

Don't railroad them. If they want to be evil let them be evil. Let the BBEG give them some morally questionable quests, and react accordingly to how they handle things like burning down an orphanage to smoke out some rebel scum.

>>51205812
Oh not this faggot again.

>>51205668
You're going to have to tell us a bit more about the situation. You know, so we can decide whether we want to side with the dictator too.

>>51205812

I legitimately don't know, explain it to me.

>>51205668
>BECAUSE HE SPOUTS DUMB PATRIOTIC RHETORIC
But anon, nationalist fervor is a real thing, and one of the most effective ways to get a group of people to consent. On the surface, all of this rhetoric is incredibly effective, and the only real way to defeat it is to think critically about it, which is not going to happen in a superficial magical fantasy land.

>>51205872
This, this, this.

Let them help him. MEVER railroad the party into a certain side or try to punish them for it. Let them help him lead his nation into a glorious new age.

>>51205872
>rebels hiding in an orphanage

That's some ISIS-level shit they're doing using kids as hostages.

>>51205668
Accept it

They clearly don't care about your shitty waifu DMPC and strong arming them into helping will only piss them off further.

>>51205921
Those rebels are evil little monsters.

>>51205668
Play it out, give them missions for the overlord and so on, play on their emotions for having the waifu killed.
Have them destroy the rebels, then a new group of adventurers appears, and become their arch enemies.

Don't think about your ideals, think about the story. This is gonna be good.

>>51205668
Perhaps he isn't evil, you just disagree with his views. Don't punish your friends for having a different opinion about the world they want to live in.

Let them. Just don't do anything too stupid or else it'll seem like you're stonewalling their options intentionally. Have morally questionable thing though like collecting a traitor's family to the third generation and executing them all on the spot.

>>51205912
It's not going to happen in real life either, until millions of men, women, and children are bloated corpses for the crows to feast on.

>>51205668

Let them, see how well it works for them in the long run.

If it gets really evil to the point where you are legit freaked out and they are determined to keep it up, tell them you can't continue this game. Everyone has their limits.

>>51205668
have him execute your waif- cute rebel girl sorry, on national TV.

>>51205946
There's a difference between having a different point of view then your NPC's, and not knowing if they're good or evil.

Unless you don't know how to look at different sides of an issue, which is sort of necessary to be a good GM.

>>51205812
Are you serious?

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>>51205812
Don't start with this shit.

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>>51205668
Maybbbee the golden/balding haired Dictator is justified in his actions BROTHER!

I Think you need to let the little hulkamaniacs do their thing! Just make sure they eat their vitimins! D:<

>>51205994
Sure it will, the problem is that we live in a tyranny by majority, and the majority of people have no incentive to know about their electoral system because of capitalism.

The second people can't eat or get toilet paper, that kind of rhetoric is much less effective.

Take advice from North Korea.
>Dictatorship
>Control of all communication
>Constant propaganda
>Fake news
>People starving
>Prison camps where family will sell each other out to torture for an extra ration of bread.
>Zero tolerance policy on crime.
>Every traitor is made an example of, so murder their entire family in front of them before locking them in solitary for 20 years. In solitary they're in a concrete pit and you slowly fill it up with water before draining it so they can sleep at night or other such tortures.

>>51205668
Demonstrate how he's evil. Nationalist ideals are in vogue right now, so it's not really enough. They're just a different philosophy and not really ethically wrong for the most part.

Have him do some typical bad dictator shit. Stuff like having a golden palace made while his people are starving, or getting pissy and micromanaging some part of the country badly even when a capable leader is trying to do it themselves. Hell, you could go full bore character assassination and have him cheat on his wife or something.

>>51205996
>Wahh you killed mah waifu

>>51205812
oh my god he's back this is amazing

>>51206064
Seriously, the surest sign that a government is about to be toppled, like 100% surest, is if there are food riots. When people's actual personal lives are threatened by the government, that's when they actually get up in arms.

>>51206088

If the DM is that cringy, sure. I was thinking more like "ehm, guys, I don't really feel I can continue with the dwarf concentration camps and experiments using dismembered elves for longevity grafts. That's... kinda too gross for me."

Op stop it with the US election whining
First the trump as a BBEG thread now this

Just let it die

>>51206064
I hope you're right, Anon.

>>51205812
Agreed

This meme is cancer, and so are you if you use it

>>51205668
Hail, fucking, HYDRA!

Maybe you should have presented a viable alternative instead of just repeatedly saying "he's evil" and assuming everyone would go along with it.

>>51206191
Sauron was the BBEG.

>>51205872
>burning down an orphanage to smoke out some rebel scum.
This is just regular soldiering, though.

>>51205668
Show not tell faggot. This is basic writing.

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>>51205668
Roll with it, anon. Free helicopter rides (or tickets to Siberia or vacations in Cuba, depending on your ideology of choice) for ALL the cute rebel girls.

>>51205668
Play out a patriotic campaign instead? Players can join up with the BBEG anyway, that's always a possibility.

>>51206135
>experiments using dismembered elves for longevity grafts.
Oh wow, this idea had never occurred to me when it should've been obvious. Thanks sempai, I'll add it to my setting.

>>51205812
This.

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>>51205668
Why don't you make the dictator asshat BBEG less of an asshat BBEG and make the dumb patriotic rhetoric that he spouts less dumb and rhetorical?

I would probably just give them quests where they do evil stuff based on what the dictator is saying. Have them help him build a power base by doing North Korea sort of bullshit while he coats it in his rhetoric so they do not think about that sort of thing. It is not executing civilians; it is preventing a cult of traitors before they can launch an attack on the realm. It is not kidnapping children to be indoctrinated as warrior slaves; it is protecting the children from their treasonous parents. Give them an NPC who follows them who keeps pusher them deeper into the dictators fold; if he dies then they are seen as traitors. Keep things subtle, but plan ahead and place little moral obstacles. A parent who appears to one of the party members, begging them to not take the only thing they have left of their spouse for example. Introduce characters and try to make them appeal to the players, then make them have to act against them. If nothing works, just sit back and say "fuck it", It is a game after all.

>>51205668
You're here so your players have fun. Suck it up.
If it's too much of a bother for you, talk it out like with your group like a mature human being, or change players.

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>>51205668
What's the problem OP?

>>51205668
"While I am heartened to hear of your support for my rule, and I applaud your initiative for seeking to pledge yourselves to my service personally, I am sorry to tell you that I don't have any openings for a small, rag-tag group such as yourselves right now. If you really want to make a difference speak to one of my recruitment officers in the lower city"

Then if the PCs go to the recruitment office they're sent to go dig ditches or build roads or some shit job

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>>51205668
Simple. Let them do it. Let them reap the ill-gotten gains of exploiting the people. Let them purge undesirables and political enemies from the state. Give them castles, women, money, anything they desire.

Then let reality ensue. Dictators are paranoid, and the fact that the players came to his domain to overthrow him in the first place will keep eating away at his mind. Sooner or later, they'll come at him again to get the whole hog... but not if he puts them against the wall first. Just need to wait a little longer, until their backs are all turned...

>>51205668
So what? They've sided with the BBEG, that's the campaign's story now.

>>51205847
>"sorry, get in the heleocopter."
>the new hit LN "I Want My Players To Fight The Dictator But They're All Fans Of Pinochet?"

>>51205994
>>51205912

Jesus Christ still thy beating hearts, liberals. If you want to cry about Trump go to /pol/.

>>51205668
Don't be a dick OP, if your players want to side with the dictator, change your story so he isn't the BBEG. If running an evil campagin triggers you so much, make him less of a jackass as the campaign goes on. I'm so sorry that your players didn't want to go down your railroad.

>>51206492
this.
Or maybe have a coup attempt from one of the Dictators other lieutenants, preferably one who doesn't like or trust the players.
If it succeeds then the players could be on the proscription list, and boom, right back to rebellion time, only with more moral ambiguity

>>51205812
Can this one faggot who whines every time someone so much as mentions the term BBEG start using a trip so I can filter them.

>>51205668
You know the answer is to go with it
Have them wipe out the rebels then help him declare war on another country or something if the rebels are too easy to kill

>>51206539
I'd buy that doujin

>>51206064
>blaming capitalism
>>>/leftypol/

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>>51205668
You seem...
U P S E T

>>51206090

Did I miss a meme? Please explain.

>>51205860
Ah Motti. The only Imperial willing and able to call Vader the equivalent of "Fucking Jew" to his face and survive.

>>51206492
This.

Don't listen to the people telling you to change your evil guy into a good guy, that's dumb. Instead have him be exactly like an actual dictator usually is - paranoid, self-interested, and absolutely not willing to follow through on any of the good things promised.

Show them things going quickly downhill when the labour camps get running and the purges start targeting anyone he feels remotely threatened by, and then show that hey, the PCs are pretty threatening.

>>51205668
What are the players' characters like? What would make them think this is the right way?

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>>51205668
Modify the campaign so that the BBEG is a questgiver/party member and go from there. What's the point in having opposing sides if the players can't pick one? Also, stop being a massive fucking faggot.

>>51206597
He only survived because Tarkin called him off.

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>>51206224

You, too, can own this expression of satisfaction.

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>>51205668

>They fucking sold out the cute rebel girl who was their contact. I don't know what to do.

Be less attached to your NPC.

It's ok to like them or spend lots of time writing up stats or background for them, but as a GM you need to learn that exposing NPCs to the players means that they are very likely to die unless you go full godmode with them, which I would not recommend.

If you wanted your cute rebel to keep doing cute rebel things, you would put her in a story or background fluff. Instead you threw her to the wolves.

>>51205668
Make him the good guy just like Hitler and Trump are IRL.

>>51206244

Patriotism is legit evil though, countries are a meme.

>>51206647
Details.

>>51206554
Nice idea, though let me add to it a little; while one of the Dictator's underlings is planning his assassination give him the bright idea to do it while the players are near him- and NO ONE else is...

Such is the price for dining at a tyrant's table. A single slip, and you're the one on a plate.

>>51206362
I like the argument for letting the players keep their agency; if they want to side with bad guys, let them side with bad guys.

But that comic page has certainly won the award for "cringiest thing I've seen today." How fucking insecure do people need to feel about their half-assed amalgamation of shit that makes up suburbanite WASP culture that they would buy into this shit?

>oh no, other people are moving in to my massive fucking country and are trying to also live here!
>it was a utopia, the city of peace and prosperity, before those dirty immigrants came!
Get over yourself, you retards. That's a literal Nazi offering you life advice.

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>>51206542
Honestly, the liberals are hypocrites. The success of nationalism and populism is just more evidence that governance should be taken out of the hands of the common man. It's never gonna end well. Regardless of what end of the political spectrum you fall on.

>>51206062

I wish he'd been nominated for something. Secretary of Wrestling, maybe.

>>51206064
>he majority of people have no incentive to know about their electoral system because of capitalism
It's not the fault of capitalism, it's the fault of the media and people's willingness to believe everything that CNN shovels them. Is capitalism a major part? Perhaps, but you don't just cut someone's whole arm off if their pinkie finger is infected.

>>51206687
>But that comic page has certainly won the award for "cringiest thing I've seen today."

Your post is certainly giving it a run for its money.
>let me call you names
>let me call the guy offering you sympathy some more names
>let me act shocked that you're siding with that guy over me

>>51206716
Ugh can you just like... not. I seriously can't even right now.

>>51206716
You can try to simplify it all you want but that's a lot of people accepting advice and bare-faced rhetoric from an actual bare-faced Nazi.

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>>51206651
Or instead of a disgusting commie wretch from the gutters of society, replace that slag with a fashy QT

>>51206643
This so much. Just change a few names around and reverse the scenarios you already had planned. Your players will love you for it and it'll be easier than trying to convince them what they want to do is wrong

>>51206751
Red-pilled waifus are the absolute best TBQH famalam

>>51206681
>details
>on one of the most iconic scenes in cinema

I... are you serious?

It's literally the Vader choke scene.

https://youtu.be/Zzs-OvfG8tE?t=9s

Motti is the Admiral that shit talks the force and tells Vader he's a fucking religious kook. Vader twists his fingers at him and chokes him from across the room.

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>>51206679
I'll give it a 3/10: pretty unconvincing, but the entire site is full of /pol/acks on a hair trigger and it only takes one serious reply to potentially derail a thread. The premise of the thread itself is kinda close already, though, so you lose points for low-hanging fruit.

>>51206702
Yes, because Fascist Germany and Italy were paragons of efficient government. And let's not even get started on Chinese authoritarian governments...

There's a reason why the Allies won, anon. Even if the Yanks had stood on the sidelines watching, the whole mess would've imploded from within.

>>51206702
>It's never gonna end well. Regardless of what end of the political spectrum you fall on.

Except that Republican Rome thrived with populist nationalism, up until the patrician class distanced itself from the plebians to an untenable level. And something similar happened again at the end of the Western Roman Empire as well.

It works as long as every single ruler/rulers over the generations keep sticking to the plan.

>>51205668
Have the players actually seen him do anything evil?
If not, then why shouldn't they side with him?

Have the rebels done anything good?
If not, then why should they stay?

Are you displaying the quite obvious attachment you have to the rebel girl in game?
If so, players might find her obnoxious enough to backstab out of sheer aggravation.

>>51206774
Look at South Korea and Singapore, those are both examples of Dictatorships going right.

>>51206679
So? Running an evil campaign is still a valid option.

>>51206687
>That's a literal Nazi offering you life advice.

That was the point of the scene. Red Skull saying things that SEEM reasonable and could very easily come from a modern pundit - except Red Skull is the Nazi who Nazi'd so hard Hitler was like 'jesus bro calm down don't be such a Nazi'

The PROBLEM is the author didn't do a very good job (or alternatively, did too good a job), and didn't sell Red Skull as a villain. Everything he said was reasonable and comes off as reasonable, and the following scenes where they murder a white homeless man for no reason and strap a bomb to a guy (for no reason) come off as hackneyed. The Author relied too heavily on Red Skulls reputation as a baddie to overwrite anything his said and make his words chilling and 'true to life'. Instead it comes across as clumsy one sided propaganda.

>>51205668
>boohoo my players aren't faggots

>>51206542
Whatever is going to make you sleep better at night. See in you hell in 2018, faggot.

>>51205912
>all forms of nationalism, capitalism and self-determination are wrong, because some people took it too far and used it as a tool to do bad things

Why is it never an excuse to stop communism?

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>>51205668
>Dictators
>Evil

Well, it depends if he's Sadam levels of dicatator, in which he is evil, or if he's Hitler Dictator, in which he's the good guy, if not necessary or questionable evil.

If he's Baatorian evil, in that all the laws make sense but there's always something wrong with them to fuck the little guy over just because or they're Wolfram and Heart levels of evil, then there's all the reason to hate the guy.

But if you played hitler, then everyone wants Reichtime, and nothing will solve that sav for divien action, because there have been 5 events in D&D where humans got their shit togther and The ((Gods)) took them down.

>>51206769
Given that OP has clearly long since fucked off, I'd say it's a fire and forget bait thread.

Punishing your players because their in-game decisions disagree with your IRL politics is the fastest way to lose friends. I sincerely hope this a b8 thread OP.

>>51206774
>Fascist Germany and Italy were paragons of efficient government

This is the effective illusion that they built up, unfortunately, which persists to this day. It's why Hitler won 'man of the year', he fooled everyone so well. In reality, the Autobahn and Germanies many public works were built with virtual slave labor - slaves who weren't jews, weren't criminals, but were actual genuine german laborers who were shocked and confused by the conditions they were put into, and even wrote Hitler letters thinking he didn't know what his subordinates were doing, all the while it was his road map to build it. Hitler was efficient at the expense of everyone else, because above all he was an egomaniac.

>>51205812
fuck off

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>>51206687
>and the huge increase in sexual assaults, assaults, thefts, and the over-burdening of the welfare state

>>51205668
Stop being a filthy commie liberal.

>>51206776
At least we have more efficient ways of changing the regime than they did.

>>51206859
Imagine being so inept at voicing arguments that you need a folder of pictures to do it for you.

Some people really struggle huh

>>51206786
>South Korea
>example of Dictaroship going right
Holy shit. Your genuine fucking retard.

>>51206747
Nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi! Actual, bare-faced nazi! Literal nazi! Double nazi! Super-Nazi! Nazi nazi nazi!

Say, has anyone ever told you the story of the boy who cried wolf? Because it sounds an awfully lot like you're playing it out all over again, and you should probably know that the way the story ends is THE NAZI EATS YOU.

>>51206806
This guy has it right. You need to rely more on SHOWING your villains as being villains, and less on TELLING "nazi nazi nazi!" Red Skull is a particularly bad example here since he's basically the living embodiment of telling Nazi-Nazi-Nazi-In-A-Can by now but is being shown as, well, not even pundit levels of evil. I've heard tenured professors calling for worse.

>>51206876
Thats a really good argument.

>>51206806
That's the point.

Rhetoric is designed to make insane things sound reasonable. Red Skull's speech there is what Hitler's speeches sounded like.

>>51205668

Slight derail, but in our game

>Sent as kind of investigators on behalf of our country as to whom to side with in what is basically a fantasy balkan conflict
>Go around, meet with the various factions.
>Pretty much every time we meet a group, we wind up hating them more than we did before we met them, and more inclined to side with their enemies.

I'm not sure if he's just really bad at portraying these groups sympathetically, or our GM just wants us to go a full pox on both their houses mode.

>>51206687
>That's a literal Nazi offering you life advice.
That's not an argument, and you know it.

I don't want start the /pol/ discussion, and get into this decade-old debate, but the paradigm of the so-called "multiculturalist blindly accepting the people of other culture and expecting them to assimilate obediently into our society is simply not working.

I'm not the best person to hear it from, so watch the video related:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0OM4egCLBI

>>51206878
>Dictaroship
And it looks like I am too.

>>51206876
To further support your point
>Brevity is wit.
>And image is worth thousand words.
By the logic of these two combined argument made with image can never be witty because it's overly verbose.

>>51206876
>Imagine being so inept at voicing arguments that a mspaint comic blasts it and you can't even respond coherently to the comic.
Some people really struggle huh?

>>51206679
>Patriotism is legit evil though, countries are a meme.

t. Globalist jewcuck

>>51206867
Winston Churchill once said that Democracy was the worst form of government, whose only positive facet was that it still wasn't as bad as every OTHER form of governance

The key being Democracy is a methodology that allows people to change their government without force of arms (at least in theory), something no other form of government can offer. So Democracy allows for improvement over time.

>>51206889
Dude have you heard a Hitler speech? Hitler speeches are more like fucking Alex Jones. Hitler went OFF. He starts yelling, banging his fist, getting people AMPED. The only time Hitler was calm during his speeches was during the slow burn up to going ballistic. It was one of the reasons he was such a successful demagogue.

>>51206716
>>51206882

Not that guy but the 'don't call me names or I'll side with double Hitler because he doesn't call me names' argument always struck me as pretty dumb.

Like I don't disagree with the way you interpret the scene in that book because Red Skull is saying actual, reasonable rhetoric (right up until he gets to the Hydra bits) that doesn't explain his actions later in the comic.

But it's still Red Skull. Ethos is one of the pillars of argument for a reason, and we have to take into account who is delivering the message along with the message itself.

>>51206824
Communism does a fine job of torpedoing itself on its own.

>>51206776
Except that it only works assuming every single ruler toes that thin line instead of falling into the inevitable excesses and corruption that plague any autocratic/oligarchic government.

Theory is forgiving to all political philosophies; it's reality that separates the wheat from the chaff. Same reason why Objectivism isn't exactly a good ideology to base a society on.

>>51206926
One of the few good things I like about the complete clusterfuck that is Nazi Cap is that he's a better Nationalist than Red Skull and is already plotting to remove him for a kinder, gentler, more 'noble' brand of nationalistic dictatorial.

Captain America is so good at things he's even makes being a Nazi good.

>>51206679
They actually are, from a scientific viewpoint.

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>it's another "/tg/ political discusussion immediately devolves into people trying to argue that fascism is a good thing" episode

>>51205668
roll with it

>>51206901
The multiculturalism isn't working well, but would going full blown nationalist work well either? I'm the guy would said that people would realize the error of their ways when millions laid died, and that shit is going to happen again. The only way we can break this fucking cycle is by stop picking one fucking side, gut both sides, and make a monstrosity of the two ideologies. It's a fucking retarded idea, but it's better then whining about "Muh Nazis!" or "Muh Commies!". Fuck, when did everything become so fucking political now a days.

>>51206967
Fascism is attractive and has been since the Classical Era. It plays directly to many of humanities instincts, and it's so direct and immediate it feels RIGHT. it's only until you start seeing the consequences of the results shit falls apart.

Humanity will never be totally free from it's urge to rule itself like a Dictator, probably.

>>51206806
>everything he said was reasonable
Except no it wasn't, and that's the problem I have here. If you think what he was was reasonable, then you're clearly not actually thinking about it.

>first panel
Nothing wrong here. Just thanking dudes for showing up.

>second panel
This is pretty much just rhetoric about how immigrants--he uses the word "refugees," something with much less political charge, as if it were poison--an an actual invading army.

He claims they're fanatical (no actual evidence supports enough of them being "fanatical,"), beliefs (which is actually perfectly okay, yet he's framing it as a bad thing?), and crime (despite evidence showing that refugees are actually less likely to commit crime, which makes sense; they don't want to be sent back). So there's nothing but rhetoric here.

>third panel
More rhetoric, particularly in the form of exaggeration. Literally saying that helping your fellow man is surrendering your ability to live your life your way, and that helping people is "despicable."

>fourth panel
Trying to normalize what the Nazi Leadership did in WW2. Which, I mean, this is the Red Skull, so I'm amazed it took him this long to get that in.

>fifth panel
This is mostly just a "might makes right," mentality that relies on the structure his earlier rhetoric built. Again, it's Red Skull. Comes with the territory.

>sixth panel
"Men committing harm and hate crimes are treated like they broke laws? How dare the government!" This is one of the more low-key panels.

>seventh panel
Tolerance is called a bad thing here. Unironically. And it shouldn't say "call you a bigot!" it should say "expose you as a bigot!" because all of this sentiment is actual bigotry.

>eighth panel
He's blaming upper echelons of government--an actual clever ploy, and maybe the only sensible-ish part in here--and frames it as a revolution. Neat bow-tie of a finish.

So what part of all this is okay to you?

>>51205668
I'd encourage you not to subject your players to hamhanded political propaganda disguised as a game. Correct the record some other way.

>>51206919
>Dude have you heard a Hitler speech? Hitler speeches are more like fucking Alex Jones. Hitler went OFF.

I got the impression Red Skull is supposed to be doing that there.

Either way, they're saying all the same stuff.

>hey, you see these people
>they aren't like you
>also, you have less stuff because of them
>in fact all your problems are probably because of them
>and also they're all plotting against you, every single one of them

>>51206882
Red Skull is literally a Nazi, dude. Like, not figuratively in that "liberals call anyone who disagrees with their extremist points a Nazi," way, but an actual Nazi who fought for Germany in WW2.

>>51206926
It isn't solely about being called unpleasant names. The name-calling is a surface symptom of the absolute smugness, superiority, disdain, and disregard harbored by one side of the argument. It's the most counterproductive thing you could possibly do short of incitement of actual violence.

>>51205847
I have to admit that this would be by far the most interesting thing for me as a player. To be fair, your players are either too dumb to realize they weren't supposed to side with the dictator, or they're deliberately defying you because they either want to see you squirm or because they don't like your overtones. But regardless...

Actually running a game about propping up the dictator and making things better from the inside... that sounds like a way cooler, way more difficult and intricate challenge. It's a rare situation where CHA is more powerful than a wizard. The more you get the dictator to like you, the more you can influence him to make more competent choices. Think Stanley the Tool from ERFworld.

In fact, if I was playing a female for some reason, I would even make it my objective then and there to become the Empress, simply to puppet the King. Sacrifice my life to a loveless political seduction and lifetime of manipulation just to maintain stability and reduce the amount of idiocy and egomaniacal bloodshed. An empress hated by the people, marrying a man she hates, to save those people who will never know why she's beside the throne in the first place.

When she has his child, she will raise it to be better. And her personal guard- the rest of the party- will ensure stability in the Kingdom by doing all the dirty work. Keeping the King happy and trusting of their work. Becoming the spymaster. The Grand Marshal. The High Priest. When all the positions of power are ours, even if there was a coup- it would be bloodless, because all factions are ran by a cabal of friends. But in reality, if the King proved dumb enough and easy enough to manipulate, then a coup would just complicate the line of succession. No- he will best die of natural causes.

It isn't about the greater good. It's the realization that you don't build a country just by killing motherfuckers and throwing a party afterwards. Nobody ever thinks about the aftermath.

>>51206967
>it's another "/tg/ appeals to historically demonized viewpoints to refute the argument and shutdown the discussion of question that should be asked

>>51206984
>The multiculturalism isn't working well, but would going full blown nationalist work well either?
It wouldn't, but it's inevitable that for every radical point of view ("we should accept everyone into our culture regardless of consequences!") there would be another radical point of view that counters the original ("we shouldn't let anyone in regardless of consequences!"). It's black and white, yin and yang. When one exists, the other does too.

>>51206990
>implying tolerance is good

>>51206934
>It's not impossible but it's too difficult, boo hoo
Rome lasted strong as a republic for around 500 years, and another 300 or something as an empire, discounting a couple emperors here and there.
800 years is about enough to prove that a society can work reasonably well. Neither communism nor other lesser theories have such a similar example of success.

The dream isn't a lie, and being even beautiful as such, shouldn't it appear even more attractive if it is within our hands to achieve?

>>51206987
There's also the propaganda usually enforced by fascist countries pretending that everything is a hell of a lot more fine and dandy than it is. They get away with atrocities because either they pretend everything is business as usual or that if it isn't, it doesn't exist at all.

>>51206990
>Men committing harm and hate crimes
I don't follow the comic, but I'm fairly certain that was referring to the BLM standoff, which, while perhaps ill-advised, surely didn't devolve into any violence or hate crimes?

>>51207008
>these people come illegaly
>they dont go to the poor countries, they all want muh Germoney
>they commit actual massacres and visible crimes

vs
>these people control all the money
>they are trying to corrupt our pure culture by producing smut
>and a bunch of other conspiracy crap

Doesnt look the same to me.

>>51206919
Don't remember who said it, but they said that democracy is terrible at creating great leaders, but great at getting rid of terrible ones.

>>51206933
Except in reputation.

Why do you think you can wear a Che shirt and just get thought of as some pretentious asshole. Imagine wearing a Hitler shirt. You'd be branded a racist pig and somebody would probably take a swing at you.

>>51207013
So let me side with double-Hitler because tumblr hurt your feelings?

>>51207013
>he name-calling is a surface symptom of the absolute smugness, superiority, disdain, and disregard harbored by one side of the argument.
>One side

Are you serious? On the website that, in some parts, uses 'cuck' to flavor an argument the way a chef uses salt to flavor a dish?

People in an argument who think you're wrong will treat you less nicely for disagreeing with them. That's just how arguments happen, now. That doesn't mean you should automatically side with the people who agree with you without considering what both arguments are saying.

>>51206926
>Not that guy but the 'don't call me names or I'll side with double Hitler because he doesn't call me names' argument always struck me as pretty dumb.

The way to understand this is that 'double Hitler' is *itself a name*. Now Red Skull is ACTUALLY double Hitler as a matter of canon, at least until the next reboot needs to establish it all over again, but when the argument happens elsewhere with people who aren't basically waifus, it should be read more like:

> 'if you call me double Hitler I will conclude that being called double Hitler is not an accurate indicator of evilness, and consider joining the other guy you were calling double Hitler since at least it's an accurate indicator he is not on your side'.

>>51207063
...Bureau of Land Management, not the other BLM.

>>51207063
I haven't read the comic, my analysis went off that panel.

But considering how they go murder a dude right after this according to another anon, I assumed the statement of "brave patriots fighting the government's..." paired with "this is who your government sees as the transgressors?! What about the criminal trespassers who make a mockery of your borders?" gave me plenty of room to suggest the literal Nazi too Nazi for Hitler was supporting dudes committing hate crimes.

>>51206687
>That's a literal Nazi offering you life advice.

No, it's a strawman invented by some numale comic book editor who can feel his job slipping further and further into irrelevance each year.

>>51207071
>>51207075
I'm not bitching about being called names; I argue on a Cambodian shadowplay fletchingboard for fun. I'm just pointing out how it has in actual fact been a contributory factor in, for example, Donald Trump's election.

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>>51207115
>man look how fucking meta i am

>>51206747
Actually it's an imaginary character written by an American writer.

If I put a black Jewish queer actor in an SS costume and have him recite Shakespeare, is he actually a nazi spouting hateful rhetoric?

>>51207119
>I'm just pointing out how it has in actual fact been a contributory factor in, for example, Donald Trump's election.

I don't doubt that, actually. The left dropped the ball the entire way through.
>>51207080
>> 'if you call me double Hitler I will conclude that being called double Hitler is not an accurate indicator of evilness, and consider joining the other guy you were calling double Hitler since at least it's an accurate indicator he is not on your side'.

What about when double Hitler is accurate when applied to the guy you're joining, but not accurate to you? Do you still join him because some dumbass who dislikes him conflated the two of you?

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>>51207129
But it's literally someone taking the words of someone they don't agree with and putting them into the mouth of a fictional uberNazi.

It doesn't mean anyone who agrees with fictional Hitler is automatically wrong.

>>51207179
In-universe? Yes.

See >>51207129.

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>>51205854

That movie was really good.

>mfw the airport giftshop

>>51206565
Wow, you're really upset that people don't like your pet term.

But, do go on about how saying "Big Bad Evil Guy" doesn't make you sound like a fag.

>>51206651

She was supposed to make it through to the end, she was the old king's illegitimate daughter, I had an entire speech written for her abdicating the throne to found a people's republic based on fairness and equity.

>>51207180
That's the problem with calling everyone double hitler. When you use it to describe people who don't fit the bill then some people will begin to think the term simply doesn't matter and will pay no mind when you use to identify people who really are double hitler.

>>51207199
Fucking christ.

>>51207199
>transitioning a Monarchy into a Republic with little to no prep-time

ahahahahaahaHAHAHAHAH

>>51207199
>based on equity
Some sort of merchant republic then?

>>51207180
>What about when double Hitler is accurate when applied to the guy you're joining, but not accurate to you? Do you still join him because some dumbass who dislikes him conflated the two of you?

No. But that requires you to make an independent accurate measurement of who is and isn't a double Hitler, and if you just assume "no" you'll be correct in like 99.99% of cases, which means a lot of people will reasonably assume it's blanket false. And hence, wind up joining double Hitler because they think "there's no way this is actually a double Hitler, just some other guy who got on the wrong side of the insult brigade, like I did".

>>51207180
>What about when double Hitler is accurate when applied to the guy you're joining, but not accurate to you? Do you still join him because some dumbass who dislikes him conflated the two of you?
Why don't you take that up with the leftist philosophy of "no enemies to the left"? It's not exclusive to any one side.

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>>51206987
Just like many other social animals, the instinct for leadership by alphas is strong. As historian David G. Herrmann noted, warlordism is the default condition of humanity.

However, we and our problems are far removed from nature, and thus better alternatives must be found. If wolves and lions had the capacity to build skyscrapers and nukes, they too would be feel the need to give this newfangled democracy thing a go.

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>>51207199

>She was supposed to make it through to the end
>I had an entire speech written for her

Like I said, you got too attached and put in too much work too soon. It's a lesson that you have to learn the hard way at least once. I remember making a charming, roguish bandit that was supposed to be a reoccuring rival for the party, but they had other plans and had him trampled to death by horses.

It's going to hurt at first, but it's an important lesson if you're willing to accept it.

>>51206766
I was being flippant when corrected, not an idiot.

>>51205668
Stop playing with Trumplets

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>>51207199

Let's all talk about this instead. You don't even need to be a /pol/fag to see where this is going.

>>51207274
>All men are created with equal equity
>that equity doesn't stay static over life though
>We use a complicated series of equations to determine a persons value based on their potential economic value to society
>yes this does take art into account
>And no, your equity number does not qualify you as a human being. You are now officially sub-human. Thankfully we have jobs for your kind as well.

>>51207230

So instead of thinking about who the term is applied to you just assume the word now means nothing because the word is used by people you don't like?

>>51207334
So communism?

>>51205668
Go with it. Maybe they see something you don't.

Or be a shit DM and railroad them back to following the "cute rebel girl" cliche that you created for masturbatory relief.

>>51205668
By rolling with it. If the 'BBEG' is too overtly evil they should realize it themselves.

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>>51207334

>>51207299

Not once did I even pretend that this phenomena was exclusive to one side. I well remember the arguments people made in defense of Hillary Clinton during the election, thank you.

>>51205912
Tell me where the man in uniform touched your mommy anon?

>>51206647
Plus, y'know, probably died a few days later anyways when the place blew up.
Seriously, what does it say about me that I preferred a room of cold, bickering bureaucrats to a lightning-throwing evil wizard as the top of the Evil Empire?

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>>51206901
>That's not an argument.
It actually is; pointing out the flaws in an opponents Ethos is entirely viable. The only reason mudslinging is a dirty word in modern politics is because every politician has dirt on them.

>>51207385
>he doesn't know about the Darth Vader comic

>>51207343
I'm not advocating it, it's obviously not a solid way to think, but people are going to do it and if you want to convince people of something you probably should avoid calling everyone names. That's all I'm trying to say.

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>>51207334

>>51207343
No, instead of thinking about who the term is applied to, you just assume the word is being used to mean "people I don't like". People don't have the time to take everything everyone says at face value, and if they see a word that should be weighty being instead bandied around like a common insult, they'll start to tune it out.

>>51207334
The only problem with this is getting the formula right. But once you manage to do that, it should be awesome system.

>>51207406
What about corruption?

>>51206984
Never heard of Hegelian dialectics?

>>51207343
Keep thinking you live surrounded by those only capable of pure reason and logic, immune to emotions and pettiness. See how far that gets you.

>>51207400
What korean pictograph is this?

>>51205913
This.

With a little work you can make a great campaign out of this. Remember, no side in a real conflict thinks of themselves as evil or the other side as good.

The players actually have a much harder road ahead, especially if the general population thinks the rebels are the "good guys".

If the party isn't evil, they have to defeat the rebels and show the people that the rebels aren't the heroes they claim to be, all while keeping a possibly questionable leader on the straight and narrow.

You should thank your players, they just turned a campaign that looked to be a cliched pile of garbage into something that might actually be interesting.

>>51207406
>communism will be a great system once we get the kinks worked out--don't mind all those engineered famines and bloody purges!

>>51207406
The problem with it is the formula is impossible, you can't boil the value of a human life and experiences down to dollars and cents. Economies exist to serve humanity, not the other way around.

>>51206064
>Sure it will, the problem is that we live in a tyranny by majority

>I have no idea how the electoral college works: The Post

>>51207399
>>51207404


That makes sense to me, sure. I don't find cuckspam and bigotposting to be productive or useful anywhere. I just find it worrying that there's a response that involves just not thinking.


>>51207434
I don't think it requires being a being of pure reason and logic to take a minute to think about what's being said, who's saying it, about whom, and why.

>>51207446
I mean, theoretically, those both have to do with the people in charge of them not the system itself. Neither of them are in the communist manifesto or any other literature.

Not that those kinds of people aren't always going to rise to the top in communism. It's like curdled milk.

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>>51207452
See, this is why you're not cut out to be a cute rebel girl.

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THIS THREAD FILLS ME WITH AMERICAN PRIDE!

/tg/, you are NOT KEKED! It is a pleasure to be among patriots! Let us drink and laugh at the tears of cowards!

>>51207466
It is extremely unlikely he has balls of any size based on how many steroids he took

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>>51207452
>you can't boil the value of a human life and experiences down to dollars and cents.
And why not? What value do any of these values actually have?

They probably did this because your "cute rebel girl" DMPC was annoying them. Then in comes the presumably bombastic and charming BBEG telling them how to make *fantasy country* great again, and even if he's an asshat, they find him more fun to be around.

In any case roll with it. See where it takes them.

>>51207435
Read the first image filename.

>>51207416
The right formula would take care of that. Those prone to corruption would be brought down in value and as such would never reach the position where they corruption can do much harm.

>>51207446
Exactly. The same way monarchy works great with wise monarch and cadre of competent noblemen.

>>51207452
Head like a hole,
black as your soul...

>>51207505
Took a second to realize you meant the image in the image

Guilty Crown, got it.

>>51206687
>oh no, other people are moving in to my massive fucking country and are trying to also live here!

Nice bait, I don't want to get banned for posting the statistics, but why don't you go look up what percentage of AMERICAN Muslims, who are considerably more liberal than fresh-off-the-desert Syrians, believe violence against Americans is a justified punishment for blasphemy? Their religion is literally incompatible with our First Amendment.

>>51207513
>The right formula would take care of that.
Yes, and it's called the invisible hand of the free market.

>>51207479
He's a multi-millionaire, not some high-school wrestler doing roids in a gym bathroom.

There are tons of drugs that stimulate natural testosterone production after a cycle - if you can afford them.

>>51207499
Well, some people are not worth their own weight in sausage stuffing, I can tell you that much.

>>51207535
>not worth their own weight in sausage stuffing,
Well no, you'll need to subtract the weight of the bones and fluids.

>>51207416
If you've nailed the formula down, you ought to be able to make the criteria public and allow people to fact-check judgements based on it. Sure, people will try to powergame their numbers up, but since you boost your score by adding to society that should just mean they're being even better citizens.

>>51207452
This is a consequentialist board.

Deontologist scum belong on >>>r/Kant

>>51207535
Natural sausage casing is pretty expensive

oh you said stuffing

nevermind

I like sausage though

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>>51207535
Everyone is worth at least their own weight in sausage stuffing as long as there's someone willing to pay for human sausage stuffing, moron. That's the whole point!

>>51207504
>He already had a victory speech written for her.

Yeah, it was her campaign. The players were just along for the ride and, like most players do when the find themselves trapped in that situation, they found a way off that railroad to nowhere.

>>51207561
Well no, there's a lot of their weight that can't be converted into stuffing (bones, blood, bile, intestines contents etc).

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>>51207373
Ah, good, that means your confusion over 'double Hitler' is genuine, and not you taking pot shots at The Other Side.
I blame bubbles. Like, we've decided that people on The Other Side can never be correct.
So, it's more like 'Because you're the kind of guy who always calls me Hitler, I have no reason to believe you when you call that other guy Double Hitler. I will, of course, be unable to recognize how often I refer to you as Stalin, and your favored candidate as Double Stalin.'
Two sides who are completely incapable of using anything other than emotional arguments and choir-preaching in their conversations, and pretending that this represents actual, coherent debate.
It's like watching Orks try out conversation as a new way to wage Waaagh.
(See? I almost made it /tg/-relevant.)

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>>51207529
>Free hand of the market is GREAT.
>Aw fuck why did it crash again, oh shit a dust bowl and mass starvation all over the world, oh god everything is on fucking fire.

>>51207398
In my experience, the Expanded Universe is where they keep the cancer.

>>51207595
Speaking as a Chinaman, the Cantonese will buy up everything you've listed and serve them as delicacies.

>>51207553
Maybe we could also let people have some sort of "points" they can exchange in value transactions. Then we'd have a sort of decentralized system for determining the value of goods and services.

But what do we call it?

>>51206747

A nazi who happens to be completely right. He's not telling me to go kill a bunch of jews, after all. What? Is JoJo's Bizarre Adventures anti-semitic because of Stroheim? Does the presence of a nazi automatically make something wrong?

>>51207612
>Aw fuck why did it crash again, oh shit a dust bowl and mass starvation all over the world, oh god everything is on fucking fire.
Remind me of what glorious China is like?

>>51207600
>Like, we've decided that people on The Other Side can never be correct.

Okay see this, this I understand, because I've seen it in action. Hell, I've done it myself before I sat back and thought about it. But how do we fix it? How do we make the two halves of our country realize that just because they hold different values, they're not the doublebad retard enemy more dangerous than anything else?

>>51207556
>t. Mass murdering organ donator

>>51206194
What is the election?

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>>51207634
Bullets.

>>51205668
DESTROY THEM
DO IT

>>51207199
I had the same issue except it was a precog in a heroes game. They dropped a cruiseliner on her.

>>51206843

That's why you never trust a lefty socialist artist.

>>51207612
Sorry to hear you're still parroting 1930's propaganda. Even Keynesians can admit that bad monetary policy exacerbated the great depression, and that some of our lending regulations helped inflate the real estate bubble.

>>51207656
Lynch the executive staff of Facebook, Newscorp, et al? just an idea.

>>51207656
Separation. Secession. Texit, Calexit, whatever. People on The Other Side are *much* less hate-able when they're off running a country of their own and not fighting you for the tiller of the one where *you* live.

>>51206843
OMG source?

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>>51207639
You mean the bits that stomp on basic human rights, the waves of uneducated bastards working in rice fields, or the modern slavery going on, which runs counter to the so called 'capitalistic' ideal?

Man, fuck economics. Capitalism blows and Communism sucks.

Also, too much double Hitler. Take a Cap'n America, when he was good.

>>51206809

You mean when our majority expands? Yeah, you enjoy that now.

>>51206747
But he's not. He's a fictional character. He isn't actually a nazi. He's a character that, in his universe, is supposed to be a nazi, but the words, the advice don't come from a nazi. They come from a writer, who is presumably not a nazi, who either thinks "this is what a nazi would say." Which if well written, rather than be a strawman might still be persuasive.

The author only has one voice, his own. He can, at best, approximate the voice of others.

>>51206362
>Europe
>My HOMELAND
So American it hurts me physically.

>>51207726
Said like an apathetic fence sitter.

Although you're partly right, Mercantilism is the best.

>>51207716
AKA local autonomy or state's rights. Doesn't have to require breaking up the union.

>>51207755
Who knows, he might believe in the EU.

>>51207726
I have beef with this image. It simplifies moral issues in a way that's basically just defeatist. Utilitarianism isn't really great either, but at least it's not just being selfish.

>>51207656
There's likely no fixing it at this point. These views (on all sides) have been cemented with enough pettiness and bitterness that those who hold them will likely grow old and die with them. 'Wolf' has been cried too many times, by all sides involved, that trust no longer exists.

>>51206826

Which events? It doesn't surprise me, D&D gods are almost universally boring, bland, and exist to play Reddit Mod on a grand scale.

The one exception was the 4e god of chains, torture, and Silent Hill, who was fucking perfect.

>>51207702
Your conclusion is correct but perhaps couple words too long.

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>>51207787
Well, the EU does put Germany in charge of a greater European empire.
So hey, Red Skull approved I suppose.

>>51207716
>Balkanization
Because that worked out so well for the Balkans, am I right? Like it or not, we're more prosperous together and that prosperity is the only thing keeping us from war in the streets.

>>51207811
Never trust an artist?

WTF mang?

>>51207833
Or a lefty, or a socialist. Don't have to be all at once to be a snake with legs, y'know what I'm sayin'?

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>>51207705
>Wants Invisible hand of the Free Market.
>Also wants Monetary Policies modified from the 1930's equivalent.

What the hell are you going on about? If you modify the freedoms the Invisible Hand may make, it is no longer truly a Free Market.

Call it the Invisible Voodpoo hand of Ungoliant, but those two things you want can't coexist because one is anathema to the other.

>>51207725
http://www.dw.com/en/the-myth-of-hitlers-role-in-building-the-autobahn/a-16144981

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rule_during_World_War_II#Organisation_Todt

>>51207738
Red Skull has always been a demagogue who latches on to whatever motivates rage in people in a given time period. That's his thing.

And frankly, he's using the same rhetoric actual white supremacists are using right now.

There is some sense in it. That's the trick to good propaganda. There ARE extremist Muslums who want to hurt people. There ARE people among those refugees that won't mesh into western society, and when they don't, there will be conflict. But the point of rhetoric like this is to pretend that these people are universal, that everyone with [insert nationality/religion/creed] is the same, when in reality that's not the case at all. Reality is more nuanced than that.

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>>51207852
I think I do, was worried you hated artists is all.

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>>51207852
Or we could truly make it simple, and reduce it to
>Don't Trust.

>>51207833
They lead you on with this this cute shy girl letting loose, having fun, gaining confidence. and then bam - it's all spiraling destructively into drugs, depression and death.

>>51205668
Don't stop them let them advance his goals until they stop following his orders.

>>51207199
>Implying there's not going to be a gigantic political clusterfuck instead of a complete reformation in seconds
But anon, that's where all the good adventuring comes from.
I have a 'reforming' political situation in one of my settings, and while it's holding together for now, it's gonna take some time to actually settle.

>>51207871
>Forced labour.
>Through the unemployment office.

Frankly that doesn't sound too bad, even if it's for peanuts.

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>>51207890
#notallartists

>>51205668
Just let them join him, and then he'll kill them off once he gets to the paranoia stage.

>>51207034
>le balance meme

That's a very convenient way to avoid actually looking hard for the truth and what works best, isn't it?

>>51207766
In theory, it doesn't require breaking up the union, but the union wasn't supposed to be this way in the first place.

One of my favorite examples of relatively non-partisan utter retardation legal munchkinry is the lawsuit of Wickard vs. Filburn:
>Union government has the power to regulate interstate commerce
>Farmer grows wheat on his own land for use on his own land
>Government tries to stop him
>Court rules that farmer is engaged in "interstate commerce" because by growing his own wheat he's reducing the demand for wheat from other states and thereby driving down the price of wheat there

At this point you can pretty much drop the "interstate" from "interstate commerce"; the court has backdoored in an interpretation that lets the government regulate "commerce" pretty much however the fuck it wants.

Secessions and separations to GTFO from this kind of thing are certainly a long shot, but I'm not convinced that trying to half-assedly keep a union but roll back a hundred stupid legal precedents is better.

>>51207826
>Because that worked out so well for the Balkans, am I right?
Can you please make an argument instead of a rhetorical question?

>>51207987
>Can you please make an argument instead of a rhetorical question?
Re-read the post, nigga.

>>51207873
This.

It's actually great, because it's something you could almost buy, if you didn't know it's the Red Skull. You can understand why the people side with him, regardless if you agree with him or not.

But looking through the lenses of "wait, this is actually fascist propaganda that is playing to our fears" it's pretty blatant what he's doing. That some people reading it and are like "Hey, he's actually right!" is a huge success for his (the writer's) rhetoric, because that's how Red Skull should be... on the other hand, it's also sort of a failure that this could happen, that people could still fall for this.

>>51207949
Honestly if you're on benefits and you give nothing back, you are in debt to every person you pass on the street

>>51207951
I feel like I should recognize this one. But Katou Jun doesn't do heart-pupils and the lines are too even for Hirame.

>>51207826
It unironically did, cut down the ethnic and religious violence massively.

>>51206071
but ANon if they weren't criminals that wouldn't be in prison. I mean come on

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>>51208021
Hop on in while you give it a think.

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>>51206990
>He claims they're fanatical (no actual evidence supports enough of them being "fanatical,")

Pic related

>an actual invading army

Considering they're mostly fighting-age men, they are.

Islam is a religion founded on war. Its very name refers to submission, at swordpoint, to Allah. You can put as much lipstick on the pig as you want, but you can't hide its tusks. I'm fine with Muslims who don't really believe or just say "yeah I'm Muslim because my parents were now gimme another beer and bacon sammich mate", ones who assimilate, but actual for-real Muslims will never fit in with a country that believes in freedom of or from religion. At best they form their own little communities isolated from the rest of the country and suck up welfare like a hoover vacuum.

>Tolerance is called a bad thing here. Unironically.

If you tolerate attacks on your countrymen, on your culture, on your way of life. If you tolerate attacks on your women, on your land, if you tolerate them gloating publicly about it...then yes, it is a bad fucking thing and you are not a moral person but rather a gormless coward.

>And it shouldn't say "call you a bigot!" it should say "expose you as a bigot!" because all of this sentiment is actual bigotry.

If not wanting those things is bigotry then bigotry is a laudable trait.

>>51208027
>Yugoslavia is united for 80-something years
>ethnic and religious violence happens in the last 10
>break up into a bunch of shitholes so irelevant, nobody even wants to fight over them

>>51205668
SIEG HEIL

GET BTFO YOU FAGGOT LEFT WING KEK PIECE OF SHIT SUBHUMAN

>>51206990
>More rhetoric, particularly in the form of exaggeration. Literally saying that helping your fellow man is surrendering your ability to live your life your way, and that helping people is "despicable."

There is no morality in forced altruism, and yes, it is forced when taxpayers have to pay the brunt of these deserters and their bad behavior. In the first place, any man that would flee his country rather than fight for it (and before you go "but muh family" consider that most of the "refugees" are unaccompanied fighting-age men) deserves nothing but a bullet in the brainpan.

>>51208093
Yugoslavia was irrelevant before the split up, it was due to the failing economy that the societal tensions snowballed out of control.

>>51208071
Fuck. I do recognize that one ... I might even be able to pin down specific volume. #20 ?

>>51208172
Right you are.
First one's from DANKE DANKE REVOLUTION.

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>>51206088

>>51208134
Their economy was decent for the Eastern Bloc until the 80s.

>>51207806
Well, there was one Sorceror kindom the gods blew up because the humans got their hands an an anti-deity weapon
There was an entire human civilization wiped from history and throw into the vestigal realm because it was 2cool and made into a collective of algamated human souls
Zarus.
And two others which I can't quite recall as of now.

>>51207954
Never fucking said that, so don't twist my words. All I said that is when one ideology arises, a counter-ideology arises in response, just like day follows night.
What we need is not "balance", what we need is start asking fucking questions and hopefully giving answers and creating solutions to the problem we created ourselves, our politicians created for us. Censoring the discussion and anti-migration sentiment shuts that discussion down.

The freedom of speech is the crux of this era.
The radical lefties that say about the sin of white man, just the same as radical righties that blame everyone else for everything bad that is happening simply DO NOT LISTEN TO EACH OTHER.
We should welcome our opposition in discussion, not shut them down, because they point out the flaws in our logic so that we can correct them.

We will never find reasonable and optimal solutions to our modern problems unless this strange idea of safe spaces, of hugboxes and echo chambers where reasonable discussion vanishes and gives place to fanatical belief and opinion-spouting instead, well, until this strange idea disappears.

We should allow any opinion, no matter how dumb or retarded it is, to be expressed, but ONLY provided the people who espouse that opinion are willing to listen to other opinions too. I welcome the opposition. It is only in the debate that is the truth born. Shutting down the discussion by spouting your opinion without being willing to listen and examine the opponent's opinion is simply unacceptable.

I am willing to tolerate people who are willing to participate the discussion. What I'm not willing to tolerate are fanatics, both politically left AND right.
Look at the American election campaign. Look at the Europe of the last decade and the Islam in particular. Look at third wave feminists. Look at the rise in Internet safe spaces and echo chambers. THIS IS FANATICISM AT ITS PUREST, PEOPLE UNABLE TO TOLERATE AN OPINION DIFFERENT FROM THEIRS.

>>51207075

Learn how ad-hominems actually work. For someone who writes these long, pseudointellectual posts you are remarkably stupid.

Ad-Hominem: You are wrong because you are a cuck

Not Ad-Hominem: You are wrong because your argument has no merit, and furthermore you are a cuck.

The standard liberal argument is "You are wrong because you are a bigot. Dude, how can you say you aren't a bigot, you disagree with me!"

If you call normal people racists for long enough, they'll stop caring about racism. This is why you lost and will continue to lose forever.

>>51207184

This.

>>51205946
Maybe anon was the evil one all along.

>>51208127
Why should anyone be expected to fight for a concept that has no tangible, physical nature?
A "country" is dirt and politicians, nothing more. I legitimately ask you, for what possible reason should anyone want to waste his life for a bunch of businessmen and gravel?

>>51207033
I like the way this Anon thinks

>>51207716

I don't think that would work, really. There will always be people who disagree, even in a smaller society. There are conservatives in California and liberals in Texas. Not to mention that even if those bits were separate and ideologically pure, they would very likely start snarling at each other pretty soon. Distancing yourself from the Other Side removes the immediate stress, but makes viewing them as the Others and not regular people even easier.

I think social media and breaking up of the information monopoly has led to this, but it would be difficult to put the genie back in the bottle. As far as I am aware, the idea that most of the media is inherently biased and dishonest is relatively new to the US. This means that people can simply disregard news that does not fit their views as just biased. However, since it is a market-driven system, news organizations are driven to differentiate themselves and push themselves even further to the side. In the end, partisans on both sides don't watch whoever is in the middle, because they would be too biased against what they want to be true.

This would work a lot better if the landscape was heavily pruned, but I can't see this happening without a catastrophe or the sort of governmental action that the US has probably never seen since WWII.

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>>51205668
cry more fag

>>51207199

I know you're not OP but good job on that bait.

>>51207036
>I love stabbing my neighbors for being different
You know other people aren't Orcs right?

>>51207716
That just leads to an India-Pakistan situation. And we really don't want another pair of them.

>>51208277
>Distancing yourself from the Other Side removes the immediate stress, but makes viewing them as the Others and not regular people even easier.
I'm not convinced that this is necessarily true. I'm pretty sure say, Danes view Italians as regular people rather than Others, to take an example.

>>51207949

It was done in Eastern Europe under communism. The problem is that a lot of the work was done shoddily as all fuck. It can be useful at times, like when you need to rebuild a country that was bombed to hell and back, but most of the time the country/economy just doesn't NEED that labor.

Anyhow, what IS that evil dictator up to that the players know about? It could be that they think he is the legitimate authority and they didn't pick up the hints that he is no good. That could make for a cool story.

>>51208211
>until the 80s.
And according to my mommy I'm a handsome boy.

Also no it fucking wasn't, the oil shock of the 70's plummeted the country into debt as literally no one wanted their products. By the start of the nineties roughly 20% of the workforce was unemployed and a further 20% worked with no pay.

And this was considered good for the Eastern bloc.

>>51208310
No, people are elves.
>Stay out of muh forest or become pincushion.

>>51208261
You can't say that people from shit countries should naturally want to flee to good countries and then turn around and say that countries don't exist and aren't worth fighting for. That's exactly how you become the people from shit countries who want to flee to good countries, except now there are no good countries left to flee to.

>>51208344
Alternatively the rebels are just pieces of shit the players don't like.

Who knows.

>>51207456

And that is precisely why "racist" no longer has any force as an insult.

>>51208191
Oh, that's... something else than the older stuff.
Still quality though.

>>51208216
>furthermore you are a cuck

And that's where your argument falls apart. Do you have to CONSTANTLY assume your opponent is and accuse them of being Achmedl's bitch, no matter what his argument is? Or do you think any compromise is a sign of weakness, when it's politics 101?

>>51208205
>having an NPC waifu
>having an NPC waifu your GIRLFRIEND knows about

this is just pathetic enough to believe.

>>51208333
The reason Denmark is a separate country from Italy is certainly not because of differences in political opinion.

>>51208428
>Can dish out ad hom but can't take it.
Colour me surprised.

>>51205668
Sounds like your players are being based.

>>51208333

They have never had much interaction, though, so they have no reason for bad blood.

When you already have people that think the other side is hypocritical, retarded and plain evil, I'm not sure just placing them over there will work. The issue is that in some places we have already reached that stage. I think that if this happened, there is a pretty good chance that some of those places will want to mess with or even take over other ones.

>>51208444
The worst part? It could realistically be any of us here.

>>51208216

>Point out that it's not just liberals who are smugly superior and disregard those who disagree with them
>Anon comes along and insults my intelligence, then call me a liberal

Like pottery

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>>51207033
Radovid Approves.

>>51208496
The "that your girlfriend knows about" criterion makes that a bit of a stretch.

>>51208261
Because if you don't, you're at the mercy of people who do. If you won't organize with the people around you at least for basic security, you won't have material comfort or the vestiges of self determination we enjoy in the developed world. The whole reason people want to live here is because our nations have worked extremely well at securing peace and liberty more or less continuously, for centuries--at least when compared to historical norms.

>>51205668
Perhaps it would be good for you to take a moment to study WHY patriotic rhetoric is so effective at persuasion. You need to knock down the base it rests on, if you want it to ring hollow.

>>51207069
because capitalist actually give their oponents the same intellectual level as their own, giving their opinions weight and meaning, while communists just disregard their opponents as "decadent"

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>>51208543

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>>51205812

>>51208027

I don't think so, no.A lot of the violence persisted until most countries became mostly ethnically homogenous, but it took a century and a half for that.

The Balkan peninsula had notably more wars and internal violence than was typical for Europe from the early 19th century on. They used to call it the powder keg of Europe.

>>51207728
你认为你的总统会救你牛仔吗? 你要死了 猪

>>51208465
There are words spoken to express meaning, and then there are snarl words spoken to express passion. You automatically defaulted to the word 'cuck' when you felt your views were challenged, whereas no one called you anything. Hell, they didn't even use any language that was remotely combative or loaded. And you call yourself the rational guy in this argument?

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>>51207199

>>51208576
>it took a century and a half for that.
Versus never happening.

>>51208428
>And that's where your argument falls apart

No, judging by your posts it's a fairly accurate assessment

>>51208588
I'm not the other guy, I just find the whole thing hilarious.

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>>51207199
Jesus fucking Christ.

Run the Pinochet fantasy game, it sounds infinitely better than this.

>>51206201
Actually Morgoth was the BBEG, Sauron was the mid campaign evil wizard boss

>>51208636

>Implying the 1st age stuff and the 3rd age stuff weren't different campaigns in the same setting.

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>>51205812
<<

>>51208577
>你认为你总统能够救助你吗,牛仔?你会死掉的,猪!
FTFY

>>51208604
Would it be shocking if I told you I wasn't the guy who wrote those posts?

And why are you still trying to defend the guy who, by all accounts, pulled the cuck card on the other guy trying to have an honest, civil debate with him? Are you so blinded by hatred that everyone who doesn't humor you and your buddies is a smug Liberal, when not even Conservatives have a consensus on the weather on a good day?

>>51207456
>bigotposting
>your moral system is exactly as good as this one used by third-world countries that didn't outlaw slavery until the 1980s, and if you disagree you're evil

Yeah, nah, go fuck yourself.

>>51208675
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH I like you. Good luck, cowboy.

>>51208660
Yeah, but the GM kept foreshadowing another campaign that going to tie up the previous two and reintroduce characters from both, including the BBEG from the first.

>>51208694

I was referring to people who call anyone who disagrees with them a bigot but feel free to twist the meaning until it hurts your fee fees so you can post about how offended you are on a drow spiderwebbing simulator.

>>51207716
>shilling to reduce the power of America

No. California will fall in line once the foreign-born 25% of its population is deported and federal funding cut off.

>>51208634
>PCs throwing rebels off of airships
fund it

>>51208764
So going to Lincoln it?

I can dig it.

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>>51207873
>And frankly, he's using the same rhetoric actual white supremacists are using right now.

Jesus, stop responding to yourself and think about what you're saying. People who support a candidate who openly sided with the one visibly minority candidate among his rivals, who doesn't care about gay marriage or what bathroom shemales use, who want border controls to stop an EPIDEMIC of heroin that has cost countless lives, who want to pay less taxes and have more freedom, are somehow white supremacists to you...but you're supposed to be the reasonable and moderate one? Get real.

>>51206064
the EC is created just to prevent that, heck the whole structure of our legislature ensures that small groups of individuals can put a wrench in the whole system.

>>51208774
>Have to find a merchant lord to fund it due to failing revenue (perhaps due to the Dictators lavish tastes).
>"You see m'lord every rebel killed has a positive effect on the economy, producing indirectly more wealth for you."
>"With an initial investment of, let's say 10,000 GP, we could start as early as Tuesday"
>"Provided we meet our quota of ~50 Rebels by the end of the week you should see returns by the end of the fiscal year."

>>51207075
If you want to convince someone of your point of view, calling them the most vile names you can think of is not going to help your case.

>>51205668
Make the players start rolling to resist Mind Control everytime the dictator speaks.

>>51207199
>gains the political power she was fighting for
>abandons it to leave a vacuum that will be exploited immediately by demagogues and warlords for decades
>leaving the realm weak and easily conquered by forces from outside

I would also support the dictator under those circumstances.