So, what the hell happened? Why is GW still the top dog when

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>>51186705
Same reason MTG is top-dog, the company that produces is great at marketing and turning a profit.
There are a plethora of arguably better options for both types of games, but which two have global tourneys, extensive histories, and an extremely wide range of products?

>>51186999
>There are a plethora of arguably better options for both types of games

name five

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>>51186705

>>51187014
>Nightmare mode
Name five that are not Anime-based

>Nightmare+ mode
And not netrunner

>>51186999
Yeah, pretty much this. The biggest boom we've seen in wargaming as of late was X-wing and Armada.

Now, if wizards sat down and took MtG, made a bunch of minis for it, then created a Wargame that manages to operate at any scale, then you might have something that could compete with GeeDubs.

>>51187014
Warmachine/Hordes
X-Wing
Kings of War (Better rules, cheaper models)
Malifaux
Guildball

Off the top of my head

>>51186999
Also, Status Quo matters a lot in this hobby. That should be taken into account.

Because wargaming is a hobby with a steep buy-in wall, most people who play them aren't willing or able to spend much when to try a new system.

People gonna keep playing 40k because they spent so fucking much on their shitty models.

>>51187059
disgusting tripfag

>>51187111
>How to tell this anon has shot taste
>Warmahordes

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>>51187014
>>51187059
Well, since I'm more of a wargamer.
>Battletech
>Fire and Fury
>Axis and Allies
>Crimson Skies
>Blitzkrieg Commander
Can't really speak for TCGs though.

Well, where I live 40k is popular mostly because of the inertia of its fanbase. And a lot of people are leaving to another wargames. Some of the local clubs are actually refusing to support 40k, preferring Malifaux, Infinity and Warmachine. Warhammer is kind of alive, but it's definetly not a top dog now, especially when you have so many better options.

>>51187162

Except he doesn't have a trip, so now I'm him also.

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>The booty had me like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd5PUe-gJ5I

>>51187210
Where do you live?

>>51187249
Russia.

>>51187171
Even if Warmahordes is bad it's still better than 40k. Which is sad.

>>51187091
>Armada

Did somebody say ISDs?

>>51187111
I've heard Malifeaux has a pretty shit combat system. The analogy was you push minis around then play war at each other with cards.

I think warmahordes and infinity are both really good, but they both have a lot of things that easily turn off new players. Also, neither of them come into their own until you start to play in league type scenarios, at which point you must have invested significantly in the game.

X-wing and Armada benefit from easy rules with a rabbit hole of deep game play interactions, pre painted minis and one of the most recognizable IP's in history.

GW I think blends all the good things about the hobby aspect and a game with a lot of rules, but is accessible at all levels. I think 40k especially went awry with the formations or unbound or CAD etc. To a new player that shit is byzantine. But at least it's fun, a nice table with terrain that isn't an abstraction is the expectation, and the minis and kits offer a wealth of hobby opportunities. For example I've never wanted to convert or customize a PP model or army to a theme. Nothing is really provided for it and there's no artwork or writing that fires the imagination for that. Infinity models look samey from afar but they're so well done that theyre beyond the average hobbyists scope to alter dramatically and you don't get any parts to do it.

>>51187289
Warmahordes is what tourney players wants warhammer to be. So fuck the cactus.

These guys also gucked up Infinity.

>>51186705
Inertia.

Which, funnily enough, is also how the Imperium is still standing.

>>51187014
Dropzone Commander.
Infinity.
Warmahordes.
Malifaux.
Flames of War.

>>51186705
Because as shit as GW are according to neckbeards, the other companies are shittier than them.

>>51187354
>le competitive boogeyman meme

Frankly, Warmahordes is better for casual and competitive play. Tight, balanced rules and a thriving competitive scene in no way prevents you from playing casual games.

Tauhammer 40Wraiths hasn't been remotely good for any kind of play for years.

>>51187378

Corvus Belli can suck my dick with all there special con and long ass releases

>>51186705
People are stupid.

>>51187334
>The analogy was you push minis around then play war at each other with cards.
As opposed to "push minis around, roll some dice, shit may happen but probably not"?

For me, it's because I live in a small country and pretty much the only game people play is 40k so we are stuck with it.

>>51187111
> Warmahordes
Dead game, man. Just ask any Skorne or Cryx player.
> Kow
Shit rules, shit models.
> Malifaux
Good game, lovely minis, not a dice game, it's a skirmish.
> Guildball
Really? A football game is a valid alternative for a wargame?

>>51187354
>These guys also gucked up Infinity.
Yeah, thanks to them we now have a shitload of ITS events and just a few scenario ones. It was better when we had just a few ITS events and just a few scenario ones.

>>51187014
>>51187059

Star Realms
Epic (same publisher as Star Realms)
Mage Wars
Game of Thrones LCG
Boss Monster
Mystic Vale

And of course Android: Netrunner

>>51187529
>Shit rules, shit models.
So, how is this different from 40k?

>>51187555
>borked the campaign rules with paradiso
>fuck it, let's just focus on ITS
aaaahhhhh

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>>51186705

These threads are so fucking cookie cutter

Its like the same people post the same shit over and over

>>51187529
>game is dead because 2 out of 12 factions are underpowered

Kek. Well 40k has even more factions and most of them are worthless so I guess it's dead too, amirite?

>>51187687

but these kind of threads are easy for 100 or even 200 posts


but its like 35 posters with over 150 replies

>>51187689
>game is dead because the 2 factions played by 95% of the playerbase have been made underpowered on purpose to sell extremely expensive metal minis of other factions

FTFY

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>>51187742
Why do you BTFO yourself eternally ?

>>51187687
Welcome to 90% of the posts on 4chan

>>51187555
>>51187598


ITS rules are cancer for Infinity but we receive so much crap


>but...but..anon 300 point armies isant alot plus it makes for better fights


Ill go back to Infinity when some new kid on the block proclaims they have the best competitive rules around shows up

>>51187598
TAGline is evidence that Corvus can make narrative things in 3E, but it's not terribly great at doing so. Flamestrike 2.0 will be better, r-right?

>>51187563
> Look for some battle reports on youtube
> Try to wrap your head around the stupid rules
> Go on Mantic's site and look at the shitty minis

Trust me, you'll start to fall in love with GW all over again anon.

>>51187844

HEY GUYS CARLOS HERE

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>>51187844
>Flamestrike 2.0 will be better, r-right?

>gw is still the top dog
Is it? I don't track global stats. All I know is that no GW games have been played in my lgs for years, and the ffg star wars games get AT LEAST 24 players a week. Where can I find comparative player totals for at least America?

>>51187226
What if you were also him before? What if I'm him now?

>>51187911
Yeah it really depends on the market but in most places it's not GW up top.

>>51187911
top dog for WARGAMES
Of course FFG is the biggest now

>>51187754
>because the 2 factions played by 95% of the playerbase
That's a sign of massive imbalance and potentially dead game right there.

>>51187803
>but..anon 300 point armies
What are you talking about? ITS allows for 200 and 400 too. Less than 200 is shit because you get power disparity between elite and horde factions, but if anything that's an argument for 300.

>>51187171
>shit taste

arguably, GW is complete garbage at rules. like, utterly.

>>51188526
> Skorne and Cryx.
> 95% of the playerbase.

I think Cygnar and Khador would like to have a word with you.

>>51187334
>I think warmahordes and infinity are both really good, but they both have a lot of things that easily turn off new players.
could you elaborate a bit on this?

>>51187529
>Kow
>Shit rules
litteraly wat

>>51186705

Lore/world building.

Game isnt amazing, lore is one of the best.

>>51188670
He said that, I don't play WMH.

>>51187754
>95% of players only play 2 factions

For one, I think more people play Cygnar, Khador or Trollbloods than Skorne. But moreso even if that were accurate then the game was already imbalanced and people who powergame may as well have their shit slapped down

>>51187014
Kings of War
Warmahordes
X-Wing
Infinity
Saga

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>>51187754
>game is dead because the 2 factions played by 95% of the playerbase

Are you having a laugh?

Skorne are not even close to being one of the most popular factions. They're not even close to being one of the most popular Hordes factions - Legion and Circle are vying for that spot.

Cygnar and Cryx are about equally as popular, and they are barely just above Khador. Cryx aren't even massively underpowered either, they're just not as powerful as they were.

It sounds a lot like you have no clue what you're taking about.

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>>51187111
>Warmachine/Hordes

Hahahah, you're joking right?

>>51186705
Must be a pain in the ass to wipe with that claw.

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>>51190282
>Wiping with the right hand
Oh my fucking god, you uncultured savage.

>>51190339
t. Chink

Brand recognition of course. Lots of people know and love 40K.

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>>51190339
>letting go of your main firearm in the grim darkness of the 41st millenium

>>51190470
What you say is that even if you're literally caught with your pants down you still won't be figuratively caught with your pants down?

>>51190524
Yes, though I would also opt for a pair of brown pants in this instance.

>>51190225

I think he threw in Skorne as a technicality to pad the number. Cryx takes you there. Skorne gives you two factions.

>>51188748
This. Whilst the rules and crunch for GW games may suck, their fluff is absolutely topnotch. I play 40k for the background, the stories, the opportunity to play as a race I fell in love with. You have a great set of rules? Sure, fine, but the race I play has 30 years of backstory, I can create my own flavoured army from it. Holy shit I love GW fluff, and that's what keeps me coming back to it. They've made mistakes, they've fucked it up sometimes, but the bones of the story are rock-solid and that's what keeps me interested. Iyanden 4 lyfe fagots

>>51187558
Of these I've heard of of Boss Monster, and it's not a TCG. Try again.

>>51191974
The fluff has been a nonstop stream of diarrhea ever since the release of Chaos 4e. At best it was "up to personal preference" with the Necrons.

>>51191974
>iyanden
My nigga, that chick with legendary spear was my first waifu

>>51191974
I honestly think 40K lore turns off a lot of people but it just happens to coincidentally hit a sweet spot for the type of people that are OK with spending lots of time alone painting/modding and lots of time in arm-pits masquerading as LGS's.

The best selling armies are all the masculine compensatory equivalent of setting a giant pick-up truck in your front yard when you really never have to haul anything with it.

>>51192458
Land of the free nigga, if I want a truck I'll buy one and I'll get one with a giant V10 if I want to.

>>51192458
Yeah, I feel like 40k is basically the kind of lore where you'd like it if you're thirteen and if someone says it sucks you just say it's parody.

>>51186705
brexit

>>51192458
>The best selling armies are all the masculine compensatory equivalent of setting a giant pick-up truck in your front yard when you really never have to haul anything with it.
I have to agree with you there. Warmachine, the second biggest game out there, also has lots of guys with huge pauldrons and equally large muscles.

Meanwhile stuff like Confrontation, Malifaux, Infinity, and anything where guys are lithe and gay always lags behind.

>>51190470
>Not learning to shoot with your superior metal hand.

The Warmahordes developers don't understand their own game and are too conceited to listen to others, so don't fix the glaring issues that top level players are screaming at them. Like, everyone expected their first wave of erratas for the current version of the game to be huge, but they literally fixed just 1 of the broken spam lists while creating another one to take its place at the same time.

And just yesterday they released "theme lists" that give you benefits for playing a thematic army. Except the benefits are way too small to build the lists fully, and spam lists can actually get the benefits. They literally just buffed the cancerous spam lists. It's unbelievable how incompetent of a company Privateer Press is.

>>51186705
GW has arguably one of the best Sci-Fi settings among other games. Few other settings are as comprehensive or as widely accessible. Even top video game settings aren't as accessible as 40k is.

>Making IWND roll

It's not being forced to make these rolls in the first place. GW literally spent millions to produce shit-casted resin fuckery and still hit sales targets. The closest GW has been has been to crumbling has been from the past few years of Kirby induced Sudoku. This is because Kirby is you typical 'Businessman' whose concern was money and pushing a culture to see how deep the customer pockets were. At the moment Rountree a) Has played the games, b) Understands the fucking customer base and c) Understands the whole hobby domain.

Finally:

>>51187171
>>51187354
>>51187529
>>51190266

Are prime examples of Why GW continues to endure.

They are the caustic asshats who declare they are 'done' with 40k/GW/whatever game, move to another game, provide the revenue it needs to limp its first couple of years and then drag a load of people with them so they don't feel lonely. Then when their new games change or move on turn into caustic cucks again and move off, except less go with them and they just return. It's a revolving door nearly every neck-beard gets caught in because of how socially retarded and group-think the wargaming community actually is.

>>51193511
Still sounds miles better than 40K

>>51193125
underrated post

>>51193541
>GW has arguably one of the best Sci-Fi settings among other games. Few other settings are as comprehensive or as widely accessible. Even top video game settings aren't as accessible as 40k is.
This. In basically every discussion I've ever witnessed/taken part of involving how various tabletop games stack up against each other, everyone agrees that, despite arguably not having the best rules or the best models, GW has the best fluff by far, and that counts for more than you might think.

>>51186705
They reached critical player mass

>>51187289
>Even if Warmahordes is bad it's still better than 40k.
I'd agree with you, if it wasn't for the fact that
Warmachine plastic is shit
They switched from metal to low res plastic
They still make abysmal resin/plastic/metal kits
Their sales have been dropping ever since the new edition
Warmachine is still "Kill caster, win" regardless of gametype.

>>51193906
This, same reason WoW is still top dog.

>>51187111
There's also warpath, and bolt action.

>>51194112
I also find it unfortunate that no one mentions Flames of War.

>>51194066
>Warmachine is still "Kill caster, win" regardless of gametype.
This is the worst fucking thing

Having the constant caster-kill mechanic kills narratives in big games, makes the low-point casual play toxic, and keeps a constant source of pressure on new players. It's not fun to lose because you moved your big guy too far to the right and opened up a charge lane to your dude before you could do anything.

At least in 40k you aren't constantly in danger of losing and being unable to continue playing; Lose your HQ? No biggie, just keep throwing dudes and dice at a problem.

>>51187529
>Guildball
That game has a lot of focus on killing others. And I am not sure what Malifaux not using dice has to do with anything.

>>51194435
Can't help but laugh at these people who play for the 'narratives'. They're the reason minis games are such a shitshow.

>>51186705
Because they have a 30+ years headstart.

What other piece of entertainment has dedicated hobby stores in almost every major city?

You don't simply buy a game. You buy an experience and become part of a vast community.

Simply by being able to easily find players it is the superior option to all alternatives.

I don't even play the game and understand that.

>>51186705
>Why is GW still the top dog when it comes to Wargaming?
Because only autistics buy tiny plastic statues for the associated rules

>>51186705
As said with MtG, WoW, amd Monopoly.

It's inertia.

>>51187014
Warmahordes
Xwing
Infinity
Hellderado
Maulifax

Rage
Force of Will
Destiny
Dicemasters
B5

>>51191974

I don't think Infinity's lore is bad, last I knew anyway, and Warmachine and Hordes was somewhat interesting. 40k does have something about it however that is quite hard to beat.

>>51193155

Malifaux and Infinity could suffer from being smaller games and thus not as widely played. In addition they may have things about them that turn people off for one reason or another. I liked Malifaux's card mechanics and Infinity's anime aesthetics and such, but I suppose I could see how those are turn offs. Infinity can also be daunting modelwise if you're used to recent 40k, Fantasy, or AoS since you're going from plastic models sculpted in a heroic style to metal models that are closer to being proportionate.

>>51193541

That last point is right on the mark. Every new wargame that starts up gets filled with some people who have a chip on their shoulder about GW and they make part of the resulting fanbase toxic. However as soon as their new interest does something they don't like, they're just as ready to jump ship and be toxic about them and GW in another game.

>>51194813

Wargaming might not even be a thing if it wasn't for people who play for the narrative or similar reasons. What else are historicals but playing a narrative?

>>51198371
>Every new wargame that starts up gets filled with some people who have a chip on their shoulder about GW and they make part of the resulting fanbase toxic
I just can't see how this is true at all outside of anecdotal evidence. I mostly play Flames and most people I know started with the game rather than opting for it over 40K due to grievances.

>>51186705

IMHO, the reason for the GW's success is the setting:

It's a dark, grim & edgy place where war never ends, taken to 11 - all the way around to the other side.

It's (again, IMHO) the perfect wargame setting:
lots of fighting, easily identifiable (and relatable) armies - each with it's distinctive modus operandi, all taken in not-so-serious & over-the-top manner.
('cause we're literally playing with toy soldiers, see?)

>>51187334
>warmahordes and infinity are both really good, but they both have a lot of things that easily turn off new players
You mean that both actually require a player to use their brain for once.

>>51187014
Literally every major LGS tabletop wargame that is not Warhammer. GW games are the gateway-wargames. They're the shit that gets you hooked, and you either move on to better games, or you fail at life and don't move on.

>>51186705
1. It's been here for a while and while it wasn't the first of it's kind like D&D, it has managed the same general idea that miniatures = Warhammer.
2. The management was always just competent enough to keep it afloat (and now they're starting to grow again IIRC).
3. The brand identity and "coolness" of the setting, strengthened by recent forays into vidya.

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>>51187871
Bostria is a treasure.

>>51193070
Nigga I'm 27, have a full time job running a kitchen and a wife and I still love 40k lore more than any other game out there.

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>>51193845
>despite arguably not having the best rules or the best models
>arguably
I moved from 40k to Infinity. I admit I started 40k because I liked Guard lore (playstyle I'd probably be closer to Tau; that was before Riptides btw), but I moved to Infinity when I heard of the whole Order activation and ARO rules. Suddenly I found myself not sitting there bored waiting for my opponent to move all his termagants.
As for mini quality, I moved from depressed looking space army men to high quality slick minis with actually good looking female models. There's still GW minis I love to death (mostly not-too-old metal stuff like Crom the Conqueror, Kasrkin or Tech-Priest), but they for the most part just can't compare with my robot cats and Saber Joan.

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Who cares? If you don't like it you don't gotta play it.

>>51190225
>>51191886

Since you all seem a little confused, keep in mind that Khador has always been the best selling faction in the game by a decent margin. Making them also among the most powerful again in MkIII did nothing to hinder that.

>>51192458
I can vouch for this. What's odd is that most of the 40k players at my LGS go to the gym. It's weird, they're all also well kept and not neck beard like at all.

>>51186705

X-wing has been outselling 40k for more than a year now.

>>51200558
X-wing is a shitty Sturr Wurrs spaceship "wargame". It doesn't count.

>>51193541
>They are the caustic asshats who declare they are 'done' with 40k/GW/whatever game, move to another game, provide the revenue it needs to limp its first couple of years and then drag a load of people with them so they don't feel lonely.

I doubt any of the people you've quoted have ever played any of the games they're insulting. They're not showing any really knowledge of those games, after all.

They're just asshurt GWdrones tired of hearing about how much better other companies are.

>>51201083
Or maybe, just maybe, they're people that love the same hobby you love, went through the same "fuck GW" phase, tried the other games, found them not to their taste and went back to 40k.

Each and every one of us loves and hates its favored games and wishes they would be better, they know those games would be better if the company did "x", where "x" is what each player thinks would be better.

I wonder how many staunch defenders of non-GW games bitch and moan about their chosen game when they're not insulting GW, and how many staunch defenders of GW games bitch and moan about their chosen game when they're not insulting non-GW games.

As for the other companies being better, come on, "Skorne is fine, git gud" Privateer, "we absolutely didn't base our company's entire existence on butthurt GW fans" Mantic, "we don't know what we're doing" Spartan Games, "You want something other than WW2 American and Germans" Warlord Games and all the others, each and every one will fuck up something sooner or later if they haven't fucked up yet. Maybe with a Kickstarter, who knows.

GW endures because it was born in a different time and they had decades to grow to heights that other companies, except FF of course, will never reach in an oversaturated niche market like our humble hobby.

>>51186705
Games Workshop hasn't screwed the pooch ENOUGH to drive off their core audience, and HAS done enough to bring in new players. It has maintained this margin at a consistent level that allows it several unique advantages. GW stores. Plain and simple GW hobby centers are something no other game has, there is no other game that has dedicated space outside their HQ to come in, buy, build, paint, and play. Brand Awareness, anyone here who has tried to run a business understands the best marketing is word of mouth, and the only thing any other marketing does is stick your IP in people's heads when they think of your category. So when people who don't play think of miniatures, they think 40k because it has the closest to mass market appeal. Player Base, bitch all you want about the attractive alternatives but the fact is if no one's playing it you won't pay for it. Multimedia Representation, GW's kept a shrewd business model going, with many brands and games offering many things- Dawn of War brought 40k to life for many new fans, the audio dramas and books on CD can be gateways for people who just like to enjoy sci fi and fantasy stories and can be entrypoints for people into the setting.

In short, GW endures because GW got itself into the right spot and hasn't fucked up enough, while doing enough right to keep going.
/shill

>>51201281
>Or maybe, just maybe, they're people that love the same hobby you love, went through the same "fuck GW" phase, tried the other games, found them not to their taste and went back to 40k.

None of them have really told us why these games are bad. The ones that have tried have made ridiculous mistakes, like asserting that Skorne are the most popular Warmahordes army.

So, no, I will asset that they are just irrationally defensive company loyalists.

>>51201744
Thing is, the hobby is a niche, plain and simple, and as much as their motives aren't valid for you, they are for them. Almost everyone of us has to rely on anecdotal experience, so, to continue the whole Skorne thing, maybe in their area there is a good percentage that plays Skorne, or they've looked at the vocal part of Skorne players that lament the sorry state of their army (on tg's WMH general, for example, or Privateer's forum).

Can I ask you why you don't like GW and its games, if you don't mind telling, of course?

>>51187111

X-Wing is not a hobby wargame, and is therefore invalid for this argument.

If you want to assemble and paint models, X-Wing cannot fulfill your wants.

If GW had continued to run things into the ground for another half-decade or so, they might well have lost a great deal more ground to their sundry competitors, but the new CEO seems to have put things back on the right track. Many people are now positive about GW's actions for the first time in a long time.

Much hinges on whether 8th edition successfully cleans up the game, of course.

>>51202424
Most people don't want that, though. See all those grey or primer only armies.

>>51186705
Games that require a built-in audience and a large amount of purchases before you can play are always going to default to the most popular regardless of quality. Competition just has too much to deal with right out the door.

>>51186705
A large head-start. Accessible rules, compared to combo-play stuff like Warbahordes. The entry-point price isn't as f!$k-stupid as it is for Infinity (£100 for the core rulebooks and a couple of minis...) and they have a large high-street presence in the UK that no other games manufacturer does.

>>51204460
I should add that I would advise people to go out and play games other than GW-hammer. I'd love to get into Infinity, I just can't drive myself to spend that much money on rulebooks when other systems charge £25 for their core rules and still have a cool premise. I had £60 credit with Waylad, ant was looking at Infinity.... £40 for the core rulebook... another £40 for the army lists... so I just thought "fuck em" and ordered the £25 Konflikt rules, a tank and a box of 30 infantry. Rules and a whole army or half of the rules, y'see?

If they ever release a soft-cover rulebook and human-sphere book, for less than £50 combined, I'll buy a copy and get into the game.

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>>51200172
>corregidor
patrician taste anon.

>>51204556
The rules are free though. The rulebook is only necessary for some fluff.

>>51202424
40K is truly the best 40K on the market.

>>51202424
It's a good thing that OP never mentioned the hobby aspect then

>>51205075
Or if you don't like reading PDFs. If they release it in softback, for less, I'm in. Otherwise they can get screwed... after all, you can get almost all games rules in PDF format... legally or otherwise.

>>51205081
Simple enough for kids. Complicated enough for beards and power-gamers. Deep enough for fluff-lovers and theme-listers.

>>51204556
>£40 for the core rulebook... another £40 for the army lists...
Or you could've just downloaded the free PDFs and used the army builder. Total cost £0. And you can print it out if you want.

>>51205175
So... like every other game that has been scanned?

Nah. If they produce a decent product, I'll buy it. They haven't yet, so I'n not in.

>>51205149
>>51205175
>It's not like I couldn't just pirate it, fuck their officially free stuff!
I'm sure that if they did cater to your specific tastes you'd turn out to be a great player and not a super whiny internet crybaby, but don't hold your breath waiting.

>>51205288 *Waaaaaaaa! Someone disagrees with me on the internet! Must throw insults!*

I won't hold my breath. I'll just be playing stuff where I can buy a rulebook for less than £40. I -could- print off their free copy, but I suspect that the paper and ink would cost me more than their print edition anyway. What I want is a printed copy of the rules that I can take to games with me without having to use a tablet. If they won't sell me one, they're not catering to me, so why should I care about their product?

>>51201889
>Can I ask you why you don't like GW and its games, if you don't mind telling, of course?

Me, personally? I don't mind GW or its games. I think they went through a serious rough period with Kirby, and the decision to go with AoS over myriad other options for a fantasy skirmish game is pretty disappointing, but I've always liked a lot of what the company has to offer.

I don't play 40K at the moment because it is atrociously poorly balanced and clunky, but it's been better in the past and probably will be again someday. I still play Horus Heresy on occasion.

I just think the people pretending that Warmahordes or Infinity or whatever are in any way inferior to 40K to be absolute bullshitters. I like all these games, GW stuff included, and I'm not above admitting that games like Warmahordes, Dropzone, etc, are FAR better balanced and designed in terms of the actual games. This doesn't mean GW stuff is inherently bad or irreversibly shit or anything... their games just aren't very good right now, and are overpriced as hell at the moment. The prices are getting better with based Roundtree's changes and maybe one day the rules will follow suit, but at the moment 40K is a clunky, poorly balanced ordeal to play.

>>51201083
I have. I was stuck between wanting to be good and not wanting to be a WAAC dick in a very casual but friendly 40k environment years ago. Couple of the beardier guys who I was on good terms with jumped to WM/H and wanted me to follow, touting the superior competitive ruleset, but I just didn't like the minis.

Then I left the country for work for a bit over a year-and-a-half, came back and they were on about Infinity. This time I joined in but before I had time to git gud I had to do another stint overseas to secure a promotion. Came back and what the fuck, they don't play Infinity anymore?

Turns out I'm a dense motherfucker who didn't notice these dudes wearing out their welcome in every group to the point that 40k is the only game they can hope to get a match outside of their little circle of 4-5. Nowadays I play 40k and Infinity casually, and am looking at X Wing. Ultimately to me at least, it's just a game.

>>51205635
I'm not sure that any game can really be considered terrible, as long as you and the other players are enjoying yourselves.

Certain things turn certain people off.... be it price, complexity, play-speed or a manufacturers miniatures.

The only cancerous people are the ones who seem incapable of understanding that not everyone has to like what they do.

The british miniature wargaming mentality is that you can just shit out some rules and then tell everyone to just roll it off if something in your ruleset doesn't work and that cancerous attitude pervades both historicals and GW games.

Many board game and hex+counter wargame designers are very capable of making games that are both good from a game standpoint and do a very good job of representing their 'fluff' and the fact that GW can't do it is awful.

/tg/ thinks it is a microcosm of the entire wargaming community.

Clearly that is not the case.

GW is doing fine because people like the changes. The WFB army burners are gone and new blood is flowing into the hobby.

People like fun over needless complexity.

Yes, the tournament players are there but the vast majority of people prefer casual games and collecting models.

>>51186705
existing brand recognition

Its been around for decades, same as magic.

Also GW models do look pretty cool for the most part.

Quite honestly though, 3D printing and scanning WILL severely impact these sorts of tabletop games. Perhaps people who enjoy the building of these models will remain, but for people who are more into the painting and the gaming, affordable and accurate 3D printing and scanning will completely destroy their dependence on GW.

>>51206519
3d printing coming anywhere close to injection molding in terms of quality is simply unrealistic. Then you also assume people will want to buy 3d printers. Why? To save money?

I'm not a poorfag like you and I'd rather support the company who produces the things I like.

>>51201744
Oooh Oooh, I can answer why I don't like warmahordes! I jumped ship from 40k for a while and took up with warmahordes, going for khador, dabbled in trolls, and ended up buying an elf army someone wanted to offload. I played battlebox games with friends, clashes back and forth with some stand in armies to test out different lists and such, and even played at an flgs. My issue with the game is that it's marketed on giant robots duking it out, but the game is far more reliant on infantry than big tank units. The game also favors armies that have a mess of special rules, or did at least in second edition, downplaying range and conventional units. Even if that's wrong though, there was never enough of a presence of other gamers who understood the hobby and game enough to correct my misinterpretation of the game. There were not enough games running that I could simply SEE how to successfully run the game. And after a while I started to see that running an army that looked like it could work would be just as expensive as starting a new 40k army. So it wasn't cheaper, there weren't more people, and the models that I found 'better' weren't viable as an army in their own right, sooo yeah, no warmahordes for me.

>>51206589
Literally your only defence is morality and "ur a poorfag :^)"

You're also assuming I'm telling people to 3D print, whereas in actuality I'm only telling you what WILL happen.

Neck yourself you retard.

It's not going to happen in any substantial amount because you still have to buy the printer, buy the raw materials, somehow get a template, and then print out sprue after sprue after sprue. Even then, the quality will be questionable compared to injection molded plastic.

Seems easier to just buy a box of models honestly.

>>51193541
>muh setting

Every time. I take it, 80's are cool and your dudes -aspect pretty strong when you have implied gazillion of planets, but I still feel a bit of sad when someone comes and claims it's a serious masterpiece.

>>51206653
>implying there will be a cost- and time efficient printing method that also takes paint well within our life time

>>51207468
Only a few years ago 3d printing was for companies only. Now I see the printers being sold in high-street shops.

I still don't think they're there yet, but a lifetime is a long time in technology. When I was a child, computers ran on magnetic tapes and had no real visual interface. With any luck I'm only 1/3 of the way through my life too.

People can build their own computers by choosing each piece of hardware, substantially saving money.
The vast majority of people still prefer to buy an assembled computer from a particular manufacturer. Especially true if you look at Apple products.

People who like GW products are not necessarily going to run out and buy 3d printers, even if they are widely available because the two things are not the same and appeal to different market bases.

>>51206621
>but the game is far more reliant on infantry than big tank units.

This is actually not the case anymore.

Infantry and warjacks/beasts are split about 50/50 in most modern Warmahordes lists.

>The game also favors armies that have a mess of special rules, or did at least in second edition, downplaying range and conventional units.

I'm not sure what this means? If you mean that the abilities of a unit are often more important than their raw stats for winning a game, that's true. I don't think it's a bad thing though.

Also elves and Khador are now high tier, though really, the game is pretty balanced at the moment. Only Skorne are in a bad place.

>>51206198
>I'm not sure that any game can really be considered terrible, as long as you and the other players are enjoying yourselves.

Sure. My main group and I mostly consider 40K terrible at the moment simply because the rules are flabby and the sheer, ridiculous level of imbalance makes the game kinda hard to play.

It's not fun to play as or against Eldar, for example, unless they go out of their way to deploy certain units in their codex that aren't overwhelming. But what if they don't like those units? You can't expect them to buy and pain shit they don't like just so the community can pretend their game is balanced.

Making 40K fun is a chore and I don't play games so that I can feel like I'm at work.

>>51207598
Not the previous anon, but I think I see where he's coming from: When I tried Warmahordes a while back, it came across as a bit like a TCG - winning armies aeem to rely on combos between caster and unit special rules. I don't think that makes it a bad game, just one where there's going to be a lot of Meta (like how there tends to be in MTG communities).

>>51207664
Well, if your group isn't enjoying it then you should maybe consider trying something else? Even other editions of 40k are surprisingly less tainted by 'power-level' creep. There are communities who play solely 2nd edition (in Australia and France iirc) and even Oldhammerers who prefer 1st edition (which is a level playing field... mainly because you can equip your Space Marines with Shuriken catapaults and your Eldar with sawn-off shotguns and axes.... if you really want to.

>>51207792
>Well, if your group isn't enjoying it then you should maybe consider trying something else?

Well yeah. I'm explaining why we don't play 40K at the moment.

>>51186705
strength of brand creates self-perpetuating success. industry leaders rarely die, that's thje reality of capitlaism - our economic system leads to monopols or oligopols in many industries.

>>51204973
Corregidor a best but I wouldn't mind touching fluffy Bakunin tail sometime

>>51186705
>Why is GW still the top dog when it comes to Wargaming?
But it isn't. X-wing is way more popular and makes a lot more money than 40k does.

>>51199533
Bro sorry but 'moving on' at wargames IS failing at life. GW is successful precisely because most people know not to take it seriously, only mental virgins move on to other games. It's either stick with warhammer or GTFO if you have any interest in leading a decent life.

>>51187334
>I've heard Malifeaux has a pretty shit combat system. The analogy was you push minis around then play war at each other with cards.

As opposed to "roll dice, check result, apply result, have zero impact on said dice result"?

>>51186705
I like to think she's farting. I want to bury my face and smell.

>>51210492

I hope that's bait. It's too retarded to be credible, but then again it has that air of being genuine stupidity.

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>>51186705
Their models are BEAUTIFUL outside of Age of Smegmar and that new WoW-tier Living Saint. You just cannot compete with their aesthetic. They continually make good decisions with their aesthetics, if not in any other department. No other company can compete with Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Sisters of Battle, Gray Knights, Chaos Daemons in terms of aesthetics

Feel free to post counterexamples for us to laugh derisively at

>>51210674
Imagine sharing an elevator ride with this guy...

>>51199490
No, in terms of rules complexity, they are on the same level as 40k (as opposed to actual interactions rising from the rules). However infinity for example has the silly, downright immersion-breaking "order pool" that means models can be literal cheerleaders, making super-soldiers faster with their warm fuzzy emotions.
Then you have critical hits, which aren't bad per se, until you realize most shit has 1 wound, so a random critical hit is literally stealing the model away with no recourse due to blind luck, in a game that prides itself on "always being your turn" and giving you interactivity at every step.

Thirdly- 3rd edition elevated the special skill bloat to a new extreme, making even the basic rulebook one of the most noob-unfriendly experiences in the industry.

>>51210782
With the one on the pic, or the poster?

>>51210782
You'd leave the elevator with at least one limb removed. Look at all those spikes.

>>51194066
>Their sales have been dropping ever since the new edition
Do we know this for a fact?

>>51210809
>Then you have critical hits, which aren't bad per se, until you realize most shit has 1 wound, so a random critical hit is literally stealing the model away with no recourse due to blind luck, in a game that prides itself on "always being your turn" and giving you interactivity at every step.

Well, a crit is an auto-wound but only 1 of them. You'll end up with an unconscious trooper, not a dead trooper.

>>51211792
Which still puts him out of action until/unless the medic or doc can revive them. Not to mention it makes TAGs plain shit, when random luck can bypass that armor you pay a shitton of points for. No matter how you cut it, it is not a very good design.

>>51210674
This, basically. No other game enters better by your eyes, and that's what's relevant if they want to sell.

>>51201045

>I don't like the game so it doesn't count.

A majority of gamers seem to disagree with you.

Miniature wargames and collectible card games have inherent difficulties with market penetration. They both require significant investment, and most people would rather play a subpar game because picking up a new game as your favored game essentially means you wasted your money on the old game. Most people don't have enough money to invest into more than a few such games.

Tabletop RPGs have an easier time penetrating the market because they aren't as reliant on costly props.

>>51212286
Naw, it's just something else you have to plan for. Without critical hits, Tags would be way overvalued - It'd mean that the meta would have to turn into Tags and anti-tank weapons, basically, as the more common rifles and ligher weapons like the various pistols would be worthless against a third the models in the game.

Having access to crits gives you a reason to keep firing in ARO and gives the Tag player a reason to pause and consider their actions, which is what Infinity tries to do at all times. It fits the design themes.

>>51210809
10/10

>>51187111
>he didn't list infinity
>the only actually better game

Honestly as much as I'd like to try another game there's nobody in my area that I know of that plays any other wargames besides 40k. 90% of people in this area that are willing to dump money into a tabletop gaming hobby are MtG players.

>>51212947
Is this the taste of 40k players? Man they do love their shit.

Like, the kind of person who unironically uses 'forge the narrative' and 'WAAC'.

"Ugh, stop doing things in the game rules. If you break the game it's your fault."

>>51205087
I don't think you can just choose to ignore that aspect, it makes a significant contribution to GW's appeal. Of course, if OP is ignoring that part of the game, it might explain his confusion why other wargames without the expensive minis can't compete financially.

The biggest reason I don't jump ship from GW is there isn't another 28mm sci-fi wargame that isn't just skirmish sized. Games like Infinity are great (I have the Aleph starter set) but you'll field at most a dozen models outside of niche lists. I play Guard, Tyranids, and 30k so I love to drown my opponent in models and can easily field 100+ troops.

The other big thing is that 40k has a massive ecosystem of media. Even when I'm burnt out on painting (rarely) or playing (often) I can read/listen to one of the novels (of varying quality) that BL pumps out, play one of the video games. I think one of GW's biggest strengths is their IP and the cool stories told in it.

I think my FLGS has been pretty lucky in that all the David Sirlin types have left for other wargames and the people who still play 40k are the type that enjoy 40k for its setting and using campaigns for storytelling.

>>51210674
That pic is why I love 40k in a nutshell. It's just so over the top. Also, there's no way that guy doesn't have this on this headphones on repeat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqPNn_ki1s8

Models and lore.

Models the best (maybe only losing to infinity) in terms of details, covering a wide range of tropes and interests, from stock standard space marines to skeletons in space, to SM gimps, to bugs, etc.

Has decades of non-retarded lore (retarded lore is battletech lore)

>>51217624
The proportions on gw figures are extremely derpy and it shows when you compare them to more realistic models. Both vehicles and individuals.

A future where humanity is reduced to single digit IQs and spouting fake latin catchphrases.

GW succeeded by targeting non-wargamers. 40k especially appeals to non-wargamers. It's literally just playing with action figures and occasionally rolling a couple of dice.

It's also why it's so hard to win over the GW audience. Trying to win them over with good rules doesn't work. They don't like good rules.

They like cheese. It's what they were raised on. They like power creep. They like the 'elite' feeling they get from spending thousands of dollars when other games cost a fraction of what GW games cost to play.

That's GW's big secret. They created their own demographic: Non-wargamers who don't give a shit if the game plays properly. And it's impossible to steal their customers because they don't respond to reasonable alternatives.

>>51219733
I think you may be right. Especially with the recent flood of boxed games. Wargames are particularly hard to get into, as opposed to boardgames which all come with everything you need to play. So they're making boardgames, put some 40k models in it and go "since you already have that scout squad/cultists/Deathwatch team..."

CB is recognizing this, which is why for Infinity you have two two-player starter sets that pretend to be boardgames (when they are more like tutorials for the full game), one bigger, shinier starter pack for a specific faction (the USAriadna Army Pack) and two ready to go 300pts boxes for their most unusual armies (Onyx and Tohaa). And they were talking about making a game based on the Dog Bowl in-universe sport. Not to mention the whole manga ordeal.

This is how you get an audience I presume.

>>51219851
Honestly the hard part about infinity is the amount of hidden info in it. That, to me, makes competitive play a lot more annoying than it has to be because you pretty much give it away if you bring a tournament tray and someone can squint at the models.

I can see why CB made that design decision but it adds to the clunk of the game. For those who don't know, anything that doesn't start on the table is hidden info until it gets on the table. You also have a 'lieutenant' model that has important game effects if lost, but that's also not public information which model it is. In fact, it's very possible to not have to give your opponent any information on your force, resulting in one instance of someone handing a picture of the troll face as their courtesy list.

Unlike GW fans, though, I don't hate the playa, i hate the game.

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>>51220237
It makes the game harder, especially for beginners.
It was funny when someone dropped into the Infinity General asking for statting up Sly Marbo. His entire gimmick of popping out of nowhere and dropping a demo charge or cutting things up with his special knife is so common in Infinity he'd fade into the background in a different sense.

>>51220469
Obviously they never heard of just dumping Van Zant in somebody's backfield and killing all their cheerleaders.

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>>51220515
Who would win?

>>51220555
Marbo would have won except he no longer exists.

>Fuck GW

>>51220589
That marbo pic is a really fine example of how derpy and ridiculous the gw model porportions are. Look at that gun. It looks like something I drew when i was eight.

>>51220637
To be fair, Marbo is a really old model. Catachan Command Squad guys look less derpy.
But they still pale in comparison to Van Zant. Which also makes them less daunting for a beginner to paint, and GW targets beginners.

>>51220664
>painting
Honestly, I have to disagree. Infinity models are so detailed that they really paint themselves if you just thin your paints. There was someone in the Infinity General showing off a few threads ago that he was able to get basically an entire table worth of Ayylmaos table-ready with nothing more than a zenithal priming and several thin layers of glazes before a quick highlight at the end. 8 hours total for 300 pts. And even when I was first getting started, I was amazed at how far just priming and glazing the model went. The little bastard's basically paint themselves.

>>51220237
Ah, the glorious Trollface Merovingians.

>>51220637
>>51220664

Yea Infinity makes much better models now. The only plus for GW is they are still modular, but GW has been reducing that lately.

>>51220992
Also if you look at how Marbo worked compared to how Van Zant works, it's like night and day, even if it's a very similar effect. The way the gameplay works really is better in virtually any game.

And i'm not a big fan of Infinity, but it's still twenty steps above 40k or age of sigmor. The only decent wargame GW ever made was Epic.

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>>51221117
>GW is bringing Epic back
>as a 30k game
That was the only 6mm game I was interested in and they're gonna make it a Marine vs Marine fuckfest.

>>51221222
They're gonna miss the point anyway and it's going to be retarded. I'd like to see huge games shy away from 28mm dudes since forever. Mantic's Warpath was a big mistake in that regard. Drop to 15mm or 6mm, have some truly big games.

>>51220992
>but GW has been reducing that lately
Ah, the revolutionary "left eyeball is one piece with right testicle" concept.

>>51210674
>Dat codpiece
Guess that must be his dedication to Slaanesh

>>51200172

Most of the infinity female minis are on par with "bikini clad anime figures sitting on a shelf that you totally dont fap too"

some are ok. but most are on the other end of the spectrum from most of GW's female minis.

>>51212482

It has horrible balance issues.

Its needs a massive rules update and to give ships new move dials because some ships should be able to do some of the moves that exist now but were not there when the game was made.

>>51210674
>Their models are BEAUTIFUL outside of Age of Smegmar and that new WoW-tier Living Saint.

I kinda disagree. I feel their understanding of how to design really good models has been fumbled relatively recently. A lot of the WHFB stuff prior to its cancellation was aesthetically less interesting that its previous-edition equivalents, and there are quite a few 40K models that just look ridiculous - like almost everything Necron, for example.

All their relatively old designs are rock solid but large swathes of their new stuff is often cluttered or just plain goofy.

>>51222893
Well yeah, for every female Janissary there's female Brigada. God, those are the worst. Bulkiness was half the appeal of Brigada, what were they thinking when they designed the girls?!
But in my personal experience when presented with Infinity female figures, my girl colleagues usually said "finally, some women miniatures that don't look like shit".

>>51222916
>>51222915
Doesn't change the fact that it's outselling GW massively.

Anon made no comment regarding the quality of the game, just that it outsells GW stuff. If low quality rules disqualifies a game, 40K and AoS don't count, as their rules are fucking awful right now.

>>51222916
They've made some fuckups, sure; with a model catalogue that gargantuan, a few duds are gonna slip through. But by and large, the models are pretty bloody cool IMO. Love the look of the Wraiths and the Tomb Spyders for instance. Plus, >>51222893 what he said. Say what you like about GW, but cheesecake fapbait they most definitely aint.

>>51222893
At least they look female, dude.

And frankly, I can't think of any models in my factions that I'd be embarrassed to field due to dangerous levels of anime butts. Maybe this is just a problem for PanO wageslaves and filthy Halals.

>>51207392
Where did I claim GW is a masterpiece?

For all intents and purposes its literal shit-tier writing that allows overly generic authors far too much opportunity to throw contradicting and outright crap to the audience.

However the setting is a) One of the most fleshed out sci-fi settings on the market, b) one of the most recognized brands in the hobby markets and c) insanely accessible compared to most others due to a+b combined.

Every nerd and his spank sock has heard of warhammer in some form. Even regular vidya gamers know about it as do normies who giggle at the stores or those who play/have an interest in it. It doesn't mean its well written in any sense.

But i'd argue that if you take your standard teen wargamer weirdo and give them two options, with one being GW stuff, then I'd say it's probably a long shot they they are going to devote themselves to the alternative if they are already familiar with GW through books/games/shops etc.

That's why GW survives.

>>51222983
I dunno man. I feel like huge amounts of GW's newer designs suck ass.

I absolutely hated more than half the latest Dark Elf line when it arrived, for example. All interesting aesthetics replaced with SKULLSPIKESSKULLMORE.

Custodes look like utter ass too, which is weird, because the actual old images of them are pretty cool.

Necrons look just embarrassing to me. They genuinely make me cringe.

>>51222964
>Doesn't change the fact that it's outselling GW massively.

Which in turn outsells nearly everything else combined.

GW could be #3 or #4 in a list of what is selling and it would still be the yard stick everyone aims to surpass.

X-wing is a winning formula because its a complete game with fairly tight rules, a minimal entry level, is time favorable and doesn't require specialist boards / terrain / clubs to get the best out of it when you play.

>>51223213
To add to this: I saw Grey Knights mentioned as one of the great designs of 40K. I agree, they look dope.

I absolutely fucking loathe every single new model for them, however. The old metal ones were great, particularly those insanely cool Terminators. They were uniform in their badassery, their proportions were perfect for 40K's scale, and their heavy details didn't clutter them. The new GK stuff looks like a grab bag of random shit and chunky-ass awful proportions. Let's not even get into shit like the Dreadknight.

On the other hand, there are some great things. Every new Dark Eldar model for example is a 10/10 fucking excellent design, partially because they are utterly in tune with what 40K is all about.

>>51186705
sunk
cost
fallacy

GW fans are the delusional beaten wife of gaming

>>51222964

Well no fucking shit.

They made ships from star wars rebels, they have / will make ships from rogue one. they even made a ship from the clone wars.

Hell rebels made a fucking TIE defender back into cannon again and make no doubt it was in part because of the X-Wing ship. They wanted kids to see that on the shelf at the store and have mommy buy it for them.

It has some good minis for sure. i mean who dosent love a good old x wing? and the fact they come pre painted is a HUGE upside for me.

but comparing X-Wing to 40k is retarded. Its like saying grapes are better then apples because you like oranges and your friend likes pears.

>>51223342
You forgot to add that it's a part of maybe the biggest goddamn fictional franchise in the history of everything ever, unless you want to tip your fedora and include shit like the Bible. Think on this for a moment; GW's influence is so bloody strong, they are such a definer of the wargaming scene, that it took them fucking up badly for a decade plus all the shit just mentioned, just to knock them down to #2. And once people are sick of Star Wars, GW will be back on top. And I still believe this is because the fluff and the backstory is cool as fuck, and sucks people in so hard they never forget it.

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>>51223158
>Maybe this is just a problem for PanO wageslaves
Please refrain from sinful thoughts about our fair lady Joan of Arc.

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>>51223547
>And once people are sick of Star Wars, GW will be back on top.
>thinking GW will outlast Star Wars

Even the prequels couldn't kill Sta Wars.

Anyone knows any other game where I can make my own army of humans and average joes in a setting of superhumans, mechanic death, and crazy monsters?

I would have tried Infinity, but somehow I just can't get into it. Feels like a weird Shadowrun. I would tried Iron Warmahordes, but is more of a MTG with miniatures, than big armies.

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>>51222930
>>51222964
>>51223158

For me to take a mini seriously it has to fit the part its trying to play in the game. Which when the part they are trying to play is heavy combat soldier and they have midriff, sideboob, underboob, cleavage, mini skirt, thigh highs and an a "please fuck me" pose its hard to take that mini as anything more then fap material.

Now if they are to play a more agility bases role then less armor is fine.

Examples would be bikini clad battle sisters are a no go. but its fine for wood elf war dancers.
On the flip side wardancers in plate armor would look just as retarded as a battle sister in a bikini.

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>>51223690
Malifaux. Just play Guild Guard and see how well your guys hold up against demons, half mechanical abominations, undead diablerie practicing fae, and cannibalistic cultists who like bad weather.

>>51223699
New anon to the conversation.

I agree, this is what was mostly annoying about Infinity to me. I just can't take it seriously
>inb4 taking 40k seriously
Yes, I like to think that those out there are actual fighters waging war for something, not just collect minis to be my anime-harem

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>>51223699
>Now if they are to play a more agility bases role then less armor is fine.
Which is why literal tit-armour is fine on Riot Grrls (that and they are punkish feminazis), but on the more conventionally heavy armoured Mobile Brigada it looks odd. Especially when the guys are towering over ORC troops, who are in the same weight class as them.
Even Domaru don't look as odd, despite male Domaru master molds being actually printed too large.
I think if the Infinity community was asked to point out the single worst Infinity sculpt (or at least single worst modern one), it would be female Brigadas.

>>51223784
Just checking out the setting.
Why I never heard of this thing before? It looks awesome. And it has an RPG too?

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>>51223982
It's not massively popular. Though the reason I picked it up int he first place is that it is much bigger than Infinity where I am at, and it has the advantage of having 100% of its range in hard plastic.

>>51223699
>Which when the part they are trying to play is heavy combat soldier and they have midriff, sideboob, underboob, cleavage, mini skirt, thigh highs and an a "please fuck me" pose its hard to take that mini as anything more then fap material.

...The number of Infinity models like that is actually pretty low.

I think there are one or two in Bakunin, the space deviants faction?

>>51223963
The Mobile Brigada chicks aren't any worse than a Sister of Battle.

They looks different from the men, but only because they want to indicate that they're female. Their armour looks perfectly functional by sci-fi power armour standards.

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>>51224102
Yeah, but the main appeal of Mobile Brigada (to me at least) is their unusual bulk. When you take that away, it just looks like an ORC with an ant head.
Also these exist.

>>51223963
>>51224159
Are these meant to be examples of Infinity having horrible sexualized models?

What the fuck man? Eldar are more sexualized than this. Fucking SoBs are more sexualized than this. You nigga realize they're all wearing corsets because that's Blanche's fetish, right?

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>>51224053

>...The number of Infinity models like that is actually pretty low.

Da fuck are you smoking?

Compare female minis to their male counterparts... while not EVERY single one has all of the things listed they are just stupid as hell.

Here we have a unit who gets off on stealth and ambush. the men look the part. the woman looks like she is modeling for the cover of an army edition of playboy.

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>>51224239
For every one model you post like that, I can probably post several where the females aren't garishly sexualized at all.

There are two women in this image.

>>51223615
The prequels were better than TFA. And no, I wasn't trying to say that GW will outlast SW, I'm saying that people will get bored of the SW universe and drop the game/move onto a different one. There's only 3 factions to pick from, and they've all been done to death over the last 40 years. Jesus bloody fuck, SW is 40 cuntwaffling years old. And people are STILL dickriding it. Yeah no, SW is here to stay but the game is another matter.

>>51224373
>The prequels were better than TFA.

Wow, you have the worst opinions. TFA used the same beats as ANH but it's nowhere near as poorly put together, acted, and written as the Prequels. Those films are simply dire, they don't work on the most basic of levels.

>There's only 3 factions to pick from, and they've all been done to death over the last 40 years.

Most people that play 40K only play one faction.

>>51186705
>Leopard skin stockings
>Corset
>Dose heels
>Dat nipple piercing
I want to taste her asshole!

>>51224373
>I'm saying that people will get bored of the SW universe

You said it yourself. It's been forty years and people still love it.

There will probably be more kids that love Star Wars in the next generation than people that have ever loved 40K in its entire history. Because Star Wars is a fucking juggernaut built on the back of three really good films.

>>51187014
For GW

>Infinity
>Battletech
>Warmahordes
>Flames of War
>Dropzone Commander

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>>51224239
Fun fact, that bare midriff girl is a very old sculpt. Compare it to the newer version of the same unit.
>inb4 girl lean

>>51224239
Boo-fucking-hoo

>>51224239
>>51224483
Blown the fuck out.

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>>51224483

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>>51224681

>>51224435
I found TFA too sterile. It is perfectly safe, perfectly sane, never puts a single toe out of line, and bland bland bland. Not saying the prequels were good films, but for me they held more charm, simply because it felt like people actually cared about making them. Yeah there was some stupid and goofy shit going on that made no sense, but this is Star Wars. That's part of the charm. What TFA got wrong was trying to appeal to everyone, and in so doing took out a lot of the joyfully ludicrous feel of the franchise for me. I will say that Kylo is the saving grace, easily the best villain since OT Vader.

Also, I started playing 40k less than a year ago, and have an Eldar army and have started on an Ork one, with a view to maybe pick up some Daemons too. People like diversity more than you think.

>>51224681
>nipples on models are icky

t. American

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>>51224695

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>>51224752

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>>51224681
Old model.

>>51224695
That one's new, but that is also a limited edition of a civvie security unit and they like making those pin-uppy.

>>51224752
Daktari is fucking ancient.

>>51224777
Also ancient. Compare with modern Ghulam.

If you really want a good case, look no further than the Tech-Bee. No model has been released yet, but there is going to be one.

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>>51224777

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>>51224795

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>>51224815
Dude, if you're going to post Kum, at least post current Kum. Let me help you out, with a see-through shirt.

How old is that bait anyway.

>>51201744
I can do that for you buddy.

>Warmachine

Almost as expensive as Warhammer with none of the custom fun, it feels like MTG had plastic surgery to look like Warhammer.

>Infinity

Nice minis but alot are very the same and many of the staple units I think look a bit shit.

>X-wing

U havin' a giggle m8,

>Malifaux

Same as Infinity.

>Mantic

Why play "Warhammer 6e but with even less fun monsters and heroes" when I have a 6e book?

Ironically, I am having tons of fun with AoS because it's so bare bones and our campaigns are getting very narrative focused.

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Warzone Resurrection > 40K and AoS any day. Superior models. Superior rules. Affordable.
Prodos just needs to market it better.

>>51201281
>Or maybe, just maybe, they're people that love the same hobby you love, went through the same "fuck GW" phase, tried the other games, found them not to their taste and went back to 40k.
I have never heard of a single person doing that.
I've tried playing 40k after trying out Infinity and I was bored out of my skull.

>>51224921
Warzone ressurection looks like a really bad Warmachine knock off

>>51224998
Considering the game and setting have been around since the 90's, that is a pretty bold claim to make.

Play Song of Blades & Heroes. Use any minis you want. Definitely not a rule set for tournies, but it's great for campaigns story-driven games.

>>51225013
I mean the sculpts. They're very bulky like Warmachine tends to do them.

>>51224855

I just googled "infinity female minis" and posted the first few i found.

Again im not saying all of infinity female minis are bad. the durkka durkka mohad jihad lady found here

>>51224159

is very well done. and infinity has some great female sculpts.

Hell i dont even have an issue with the oversexulised ones because im not a butthurt feminazi.

But to bitch and moan that other companies have sexy female minis and then hold up infinity to compare to is just stupid.

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>>51224681
Old model.

>>51224695
Not a combatant, not even a model for playing games with.

>>51224752
ANCIENT model that is getting a resculpt soonish.

>>51224777
Old model. Pic related is what they look like now.

>>51224795
Old model, but actually appropriate. Moiras are weird as part of their fluff, putting real armour on them would be like putting wyches in habits.

>>51224815
Old models.

Do you have any good examples?

>>51225065
>But to bitch and moan that other companies have sexy female minis and then hold up infinity to compare to is just stupid.

Absolutely no one was doing that.

This started when some guy stated that Infinity models are all anime harem shit.

>>51225076
Not him, but hose models really don't look very interesting.

Hell, that's what I mean about Infinity, sure the Appleseed and GiTS robots are cool, but alot of the infantry is bland bodysuit stuff that really isn't that fun.

Maybe when they release an all robit faction.

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>>51224903
>Almost as expensive as Warhammer with none of the custom fun

My largest Warmahordes army, which is maxed out in terms of point size, cost a few hundred pounds.

My smallest 40K army cost me almost two thousand.

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>>51225042

Bulky like WM? Suuure.... There maybe 1 or two that might be similar, like the Bauhaus Vulkan, but generally not even close to looking like their robots skipped leg day (unlike pretty much all warjacks)

>>51225144
Personally, I find them about as interesting as any of the Imperial Guard or Scions stuff. But that's just opinions.jpg

>Maybe when they release an all robit faction.

That already exists.

Or, rather, you can make one of the factions do that.

>>51225155
>My smallest 40k army cost me two thousand

Yet I can field a Space Wolf army for £75. Sounds more like you just bought more 40k than Warmahordes.

>>51187014

> Hordes
Warmachine shares a lot of rules but the whole warjack rule update and GUNS!GUNS!GUNS! update makes the armies of warmachine boring
> King of War
> Bolt Action
> Flames of War
And the indisputable best game on the market
> Infinity

Bonus games
> Malifaux
> Batman Miniature Game
Probably the best objective grabbing game on the market but is pricey.

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>>51225065
>But to bitch and moan that other companies have sexy female minis and then hold up infinity to compare to is just stupid.
Which is one no one was doing that.
Seriously, that is some weak bait.
Next time you try that, have an image compiled by Infinity General itself. You're welcome.

>>51225198
See
>>51223887

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>>51225144
>Maybe when they release an all robit faction.
Onyx Contact Force would be your best bet. It still has some fleshy bits, but it can be almost 100% robot if you want.

>>51225178
That's pretty cool.

Honestly I don't understand why 40k is compared so often to Infinity and Warmahordes.

40k is quite obviously the "Lego" of the Wargames compared to the Infinity bionicle. and Warmahordes duplo.

>>51225190
1500pts.

It's more models than the Warmahordes army, but more models are required.

Yes, you can technically get a 'start collecting' tier army for less than a hundred, but you can get the Warmahordes equivalent for even less... and you will never ever get a game against anyone with that tiny starter army unless it's against other people that have bought an equivalent and have nothing else.

>>51225242
Now those are some sweet ass models.

Whats the story with Onyx?

>>51225225
You may want to read that post again, more carefully.

>>51225269
>Play Champions of Fenris list for £75.
>Pretty strong

>Use any out of the box Warmahordes army
>It's utter trash and filled with "Useless" options that forces you to optimise by buying singles.

In 40k, you can pretty much convert what you need, Warmahordes forces you to pay up.

>>51225225
See, no one's denying Infinity has pinup and that it's not grimdark and always serious, all the time.
Not with Nomads fielding literal cyborg furries.

But then Sororitas are running around in titty armour and Space Marines eat brains to absorb memories.

>>51225278
Onyx Contact Force is the forward force of the Combined Army. Basically they're the ones getting shit done for the Evolved Intelligence.
The Umbra were specifically revived by the EI to scare everyone else into submission.

>>51225269
>1500pts cost two thousand pounds

What the fuck are you playing? Tyranids with Teutogen Guard counting as Termagants?

>>51225278
They're the spearhead force for the Combined Army, a coalition of subjugated aliens working under a highly degraded AI. They're like its right hand sort of implement, and contain a lot of remote constructs that are directly run by facets of the AI.

>>51225345
>>51225334

So like SHODAN's Spooky special ops?

Sweet. Any other faction that is Mech-looking heavy?

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>>51225269

>not playing kill team and combat patrol

Holy shit annon is there a reason to not play the best forms of 40k?

>>51225318
Wew, confirmed for not playing Warmahordes in some time, or at least ever.

Most of the new starter sets are good at their points level. All of them have stuff you'll always use later, too.

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>>51225356
Technically ALEPH would be SHODAN's spooky spec ops.

ALEPH is the equivalent human AI, which doesn't rule humanity but coordinates everything and mediates between nations, and has a special forces unit to grease the wheels of diplomacy when necessary. It loves mankind beyond measure but is willing to go to some pretty shady places to make sure they reach their full potential.

They can do a 100% robot army too, I think, though IMO their best stuff is mostly humanoid.

>>51225386
>At their points level.

Yet people never really play at the points level of the starter sets. Just like with Warhammer 40k.

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>>51225356
ALEPH is also run by an AI, but a human-made one. It is heavily GITS inspired, composed of artificially made humans. There's the more odd looking Operations Sub-Section (vanilla ALEPH) and the more human-like Assault Sub-Section, also known as the Steel Phalanx. The ASS was specifically created to combat Combined Army. The OSS was created to keep it's slaves in check and oppress free people, like the Nomad Nation or the nations of Dawn

>>51192009
You hearing about them wasn't the goal. The whole point was that quality doesn't equal popularity.

>>51225432
...Which was exactly that anon's point prior.

That £75 Space Wolves list is only good for a few startup games.

>>51225428
Those Popped collar Apocalypse dudes look Both hilarious and cool.

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>>51225438
Man, dem old sculpts.

I didn't realize how much better the newer Dakinis looked.

>>51225474
Eh, still aged better than JSA starter.
Robots don't age as badly as humans.

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>>51225428
>>51225438
The thing to be aware of with Aleph is that CB are currently jizzing all over the ASS stuff.

So we're not getting many cool robutt releases right not because they're swamped under synthetic posthumans brainwashed to think they're heroes from Troy. But they're supposedly on the horizon.

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>>51225470
Fun fact about that pic: it's one guy, but in four bodies.
Although "guy" is a relative term, as Mk.1-3 Post-Humans are all female. And there's nothing stopping you from fielding any of the previous Marks with Mk.4 or 5 as the same unit, as long as you keep the 3 bodies limit.

>>51225474
I dunno, there is an appeal to the human Sized eva dudes.

>>51225459
The Issue there is that £75 of Spess Wolves can be used for tons of shit and alot of shit can be converted from it to fill many unit types.

Warmahordes is autistic as fuck in it's choices and it's playerbase even moreso and very expensive per individual model and especially on the infantry scale.

Which Warmachine promotes to fuck now.

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>>51225493
Just one more reason why mankind needs to join ALEPH in its digital embrace and transition into bodies of limitless posthuman potential.

>>51225438
Pay this man no heed, he is clearly a deviant furry like all Nomads.

>>51225558
What about the Inverse?

Are there any more primal and nature-like factions besides the Werewolf scots who had one sculpt so bad I stopped ever looking at their shop page on the website?

>>51225564
>Which Warmachine promotes to fuck now.

Again, you clearly haven't played the game in a while.

Infantry-dominated games are a thing of the past. Most lists are now either 50/50 split or have a little more points dumped into warjacks/warbeasts, due to the changes in the way the game's core system works.

>>51225628
Khador says otherwise.

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>>51225598
Nah, not really. The Tohaa are probably closest due to their biotech.

Also, Ariadna isn't just Scots, that's just one of their subfactions. They're also Russians, Frenchies, and the only Amurricans left in the galaxy.

>>51225648
Holy shit, are you serious?

The tourney scene just got swept by a Khador warjack-heavy list. Literally just the warcaster plus a ton of jacks. The Reds can officially run all the stompy robots they'd ever want to now.

>>51225720
Surprised there isn't space britbongs and King Arthur, but I remember they're a Spanish company.

>>51225749
Well, there's lots of Britbong imagery in the knightly orders.

IIRC Britain is still an independent nation in the fluff. Which is kinda hilarious.

>>51225745
>The Tourney Scene

It's up in the air is the entire meta so anything goes.

But you are right, I don't have much time invested in Warmahordes specifically because it feels less like a hobby and more like MTG:the Wargame where I try and netlist enough times to win over my friends with tokens I happen to have needed to paint beforehand.

There is very little spirit to Warmahordes. The only thing that came close is the giant bird they released.

>>51225774
Well, they'd never stop being independent really.

What faction is that then?

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>>51225598
How old was the sculpt? They much improved their werewolves since then.
But Scots still suffer from a very bad looking starter pack. In fact every Ariadna faction besides USAriadna and arguably the French does. That awful whore-looking Volunteer >>51224681 has not been replaced yet.

>>51225144
desu, I prefer the cheesecake to bodysuit dudes

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>>51225774
Maybe after Brexit PanO decided to just leave them behind.

>>51225812
The knight faction is a lot more Crusader than King Arthur.

>>51225859
>Implying Neo-Britain won't rise again.

>>51225781
>it feels less like a hobby and more like MTG:the Wargame where I try and netlist enough times to win over my friends with tokens I happen to have needed to paint beforehand.

Looks like you have a shitty bunch of friends, really.

Casual games of Warmahordes are simple enough. They're more tactically driven than casual games of 40K, but I prefer that.

>There is very little spirit to Warmahordes

What an entirely meaningless thing to say.

>>51225859
It may surprise you to learn that Britain was indeed a crusading nation.

>>51186705

Because GW nerds are the battered wives of the industry, no matter what GW does and how much they complain about it online they'll never stop buying all dat plastic crack.

>>51225923
Well there is the thing. Absolutely none of my friends play Warmachine because it's such an ugly boring game. We're all Pnp players, we get out Mordheim as much as AoS as much as WHFB and usually don't stretch for the long games. We keep tallies we make stories we run narratives.

Warmahordes is not for that, it's a clinical game designed to be played competitively only.

>>51224921
Those models look amazing.

But from what I just saw upon checking out the site, literally everything else looks like total ass.

>>51225992
>Absolutely none of my friends play Warmachine because it's such an ugly boring game.

So, wait, Warmahordes feels like a game where you netlist against your friends... but you haven't actually played it with them? Or played it at all?

>We're all Pnp players

Yeah, most of my group is too. Warmahordes just scratches a different itch.

>it's a clinical game designed to be played competitively only.

Funny, there aren't really any tourneyfags in my group, and we all seem to play casually. But... I guess we must be nonexistent because some guy that doesn't even play the game says it only works a certain way?

Okay. Cool story bro.

>>51226101
We pirated the rules and had a few runs, but it honestly did not appeal to us because it's too cut and dry.

It's like a video game but on a board.

>>51226133
>it's too cut and dry
>It's like a video game but on a board.

Two more meaningless statements.

>>51226259
Sure, just like every other meaningless statement thrown out in this thread.

At the end of the day, a Wargame isn't good just on it's rules, because one balance change and it fucks over and angers alot of people.

Just go see the Warmahordes thread for that.

>>51226298
>At the end of the day, a Wargame isn't good just on it's rules

Sure. But there are plenty of people than enjoy the Iron Kingdoms setting and the factions of the game.

The only real way to determine quality in a game is how well the rules work, because everything else is subjective. If you don't LIKE the aesthetics of Warmahordes or whatever, more power to you, but going around pretending it's a bad game is retarded, as you've made no comment on the game there, and aesthetics are subjective.

>>51226298
I see pnp RPGs and miniature wargames as very different things. I don't get out a bunch of stuff and get together and roll a bunch of dice to get my narrative fix- I got RPGs for that. I go to them for the games.

That being said, I kinda dropped out of warmahordes because it took too long for what it was. X-wing's big virtue as a game to me is that it can be done in 60 minutes without much trouble and that kind of erases the sting of randomness and things not working out.

In my opinion, the shorter and quicker a game goes, the more willing I am to tolerate its flaws.

>>51225938
Of course it was, but none of the specifically British military orders are represented in Infinity. There's defunct Templars, Hospitallers, Holy Sepulchre, Teutons, Santiago, Montesa, Dominicans (although they are not knights as much as inquisitorial agents), and, strangely enough, Knights of Dobrzyń (as a sub-order to the Teutons). And that does not change my point of the knights in Infinity being more in line with the Crusades than Arthurian chivalric traditions.
Basically don't expect them to be space Bretonia.

Rather than make a separate thread for it, can anyone in here vouching for Malifaux redpill me on it? A new local game store apparently had a big scene in it and the setting looks fun. I'm thinking about picking up the starter box with either the family of Mexican gunslingers or the kid who brings nightmares to life

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>>51223963
Female Mobile Brigada is one of my favorites. Eighties anime as fuck.

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>>51222893
>"bikini clad anime figures sitting on a shelf that you totally dont fap too"

Are you saying theirs something wrong with that?

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>>51223699
Based GW hears you and has made the Sisters Repentia.

>>51187143
>Because wargaming is a hobby with a steep buy-in wall, most people who play them aren't willing or able to spend much when to try a new system.
>People gonna keep playing 40k because they spent so fucking much on their shitty models.

The true reply gets no (you)

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Wargaming is a niche and dying hobby.

People from my generation barely played them. I really doubt anyone from the current gen is going to pick them up.

Past that? The kids who are glued to their ipads? Please.

>>51226474
It's a pretty swell game that has a lot of options for play. The Latigo Posse is probably the better option for beginners as the box gives you pretty much a full size (50 soulstone) crew out of the box. It is also very straightforward to play. Meanwhile running nightmares will often require summoning, so you will have to buy a lot more models. After getting the box you can get Abuela and some pistoleros de Latigo for some thematic fun.

You will also need a deck of playing cards. There are some officially made for the game which are nicely done in plastic, but a cheapo Bicycle set works as well. The actual rules are free, and you can get a paperback version for $15. The larger rulebooks have fluff and scenarios, but aren't really required. The only caveat would be Book 3 which includes a campaign system, which is nice if you want to run Mordheim with cowboys.

>>51226474
>Rather than make a separate thread for it
There is one now.

>>51230201

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>>51187014
EVE online the card game
Smash Up
Malifaux
Xwing Miniatures
Jackie Chan

there's your 5