How much math do I need to know to be good at role-playing games?

>>51185182
Depends on the system, but most won't ask you to do more than simple BODMAS style equations and know how ratios/percentages work at the worst.

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College level math for D&D 2nd Edition
High-School math level for 3rd
Elementary-School math level for 4th and 5th editions.

>>51185182
If you can do Exponents, Multiplication and Division, Subtraction and Addition, and understand what Brackets indicate, then you're set, if you want to optimize, learn some basic probability

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>>51185182
Simple Algebra I level stuff is all that is required for the vast majority of games. The outliers are shit that no one likes like GURPS 3e Vehicles/Mecha or FATAL. Some shit may be poorly thought out, written, and explained but generally doesn't require much in the way of higher math.

>>51185233 is pic related.

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>>51185233
because reading a table requires incredible math skills...

>>51185294
exponents are normally not needed, occasionally you need to be able to correctly handle negative numbers but that's it. i have some poorly educated friends and they do anything but the most complicated games just fine

>>51185360
>when you notice someone replying to a joke post seriously but you don't know how to tell them politely without making them look like an idiot

Basic addition, subtraction multiplication and division. That's it.

>>51185182
A PhD in non-selfadjoint operator algebras and if anyone tells you otherwise they're lying.

>>51185182
A little bit of statistics can be pretty helpful for gauging the odds. Stuff like knowing the difference in distributions between 2d10 and 1d20, for example.

>>51185233
Yet another reason why old D&D was shit.

>>51185182
Wait, what does the abuse story have to do with the math question?

>>51185869
It's the new multi-discipline approach to education in the US. Teachers are gently encouraged to shove unrelated content into lessons, like teaching kids about geography or history during math class.

I could go off on a rant about how getting a new head of the Department of Education with every new president creates a clusterfuck of looks-good-on-paper mandates that are thrown together at the last second and abandoned the instant a new politician takes office if you'd like.

"New math", No Child Left Behind, Common Core, etc.

>>51185869
Common Core, teaching Social Justice through math!
>I wish I was joking

>>51185869
Well its about a woman, so its safe to assume that liberals are strong to brainwash STEM with their garbage. God, why can't we keep /mlp/ and /lgbt/ in their containment boards...

>>51185905
That doesn't sound too bad in itself, but it seems like it could lead to neglect of the core content of various subjects if overdone. Integration of different subjects in the sense of making students see how they're related, like, how math actually does matter for the things they're interested in, would be a good idea.

>>51185961

Back in high-school, we once determined the height of a flag-pole by measuring its shadow. It was a lot of fun, and didn't involve the injection of controversial subject matters.

>>51185940
I wish educators would teach kids what word "liberal" actually means, and I don't care where they shove this lesson. Misusing the term liberal used to be primamrily an American thing, but it seems to me like this cancer has been spreading to other countries as well. Advocating free market, right to own guns, same sex marriage, free speech and gender equality are all pretty damn liberal things and can very naturally stem from the same set of values.

>>51185601
I think mistakes like that are common enough that they should always include a short note or something in the rules that basically say "hey fuckface, remember that 2d10 isn't the same as 2 to 20"

>>51185182
If you find the right system for yourself, just enough.

I don't like math in my RPG:s, thus I made one without it.

>>51185905
>>51185927
I'm happy that I graduated before this all happened to education. Back in my day, math problems were entirely about solving math problems.

Also I notice the abusers in the question are all male, even though 43% of sexual abusers are female, 25% of which are the mother.

>>51186000

And in Australia, the Liberal party opposes all of those things!

The name of them is a holdover from when there was an Australia Party that was the super royalist right wing party of it's day. The liberal party were, at the time, genuinely more liberal. These days they are the non-liberals as they've sorta taken over the role the Australia party originally covered

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What if advanced math was only taught to those with the aptitude and inclination?

>>51185940
Are you OK anon? Do you have dementia?

>>51186059
Huh. Politics is weird. The whole left-right divide also feels kind of confusing these days. I can't help but feel like a lot of the political issues that used to define and divide parties are kind of outdated, not so relevant these days, but people still think about politics, themselves and their political ideals in outdated terms.

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High school level should be enough to play, but you'll want an undergrad degree at least if you want to DM.

>>51186100
This reminds me of the Pepsi Universe document

>>51185182
>>51185233
samefag has a fine collection of bait pics. it helps him cope with the fact that no one will play with him.

>>51186137

Think of it in terms of tribal affiliation.
The beliefs shift, but the clans remain.

>>51186100
I've got a bachelors in mechanical and in electrical engineering and I'd have a 50% chance of getting this wrong. Why do the ovals overlap? Why is there free space? Why aren't they circles? Is this going by surface area, if so is A really supposed to be the answer?

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>>51186100
>picture
I don't even understand the question.

>>51185182
Just stay away from GURPS and you will be fine...

>>51185927
You know the question is about Maya Angelou, right

It's not just a generic "men are rapists mmmmkay" statement like /pol/fags imagine schoolwork to be like.

>>51186100
Number sentence? Why not say equation?

>>51186399
Because common core is a mistake

>>51186399
Second graders aren't as intelligent as you imagine that you were in second grade.

>>51186185
It's probably C, based on the size ratios.

The point of this question is to gauge how well the child can understand the comparable values of numbers to each other.

I feel like I'm the only one in this thread with a degree in child development.

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>>51186399

70% of American children don't know what the '=' sign does.

The solution they've come up with is to teach everything in strange new ways.

>>51186469
>70% of American children don't know what the '=' sign does.
Now you're just making shit up as you go along.

Let me guess, you're going to cite a study that involved a class of 20 literal retards with drunk fathers and crackwhore mothers and then decided to apply that to the entire country?

>>51186448
The problem to me is that both answers A and C are correct, mathematically, but that the illustration is hopelessly vague: as an example, if I were to place two circles with a radius or diameter of 1" side-by-side, they wouldn't overlap in a circle of 2" in the same dimension.
Though in circumference, they would massively overlap.

>>51186501
Not that anon, but keep in mind that you no longer count as a child and any statements about how you knew something as a child are meaningless.

>>51186501
Worse: one given at the end of the year where students were literally told "this will not impact your grade in any way."

>>51186448
Even the second grader me would've said that's bullshit. Why not use a shape that would actually make it simple to judge the sizes?

>>51185927
You mean like the book We, by Yevgeny Zamyatin?

I like dystopian fiction, but I wouldn't want to live in one.

>>51186548
Shut the fuck up, you learn what an = is in the first grade, faggot.

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>>51186501

>>51186501
>a class of 20 literal retards with drunk fathers and crackwhore mothers
That is 100% representative of the entire united states.

>>51186532
Yeah, but you did say that you were an engineer.

The smaller oval is obviously not one-sixth the size of the larger oval.

>>51186574
>Shut the fuck up, I learned what an = is in the first grade, faggot.
Great argument. How many years have you held a teaching license for, again?

>>51185991
how is "the historical facts of the life of noted literary figure Maya Angelou" controversial?
You could ask the same question about which war Hemingway fought in.

>>51186578
I feel like the person who wrote this failed a few writing classes.

>>51186609
"Kids don't know what an equals sign is"
"PEMDAS is taught in the third grade"

These are mutually exclusive, faggot. So which are you telling lies about?

>>51186621

Some historical figures are more worthy of recognition than others.
When you bring historical figures from the not-so-distant past into the mix, you get controversy.

>>51186638
Not him, but I'm going to refer you to >>51186578, where a person (either one of the researchers, or someone in charge of compiling the research, going by the context) gives a possible answer for how a child could be taught about equals signs without grasping the concept. They know what to do when they see it, but that doesn't mean they understand what it is. Kind of like how you know how to drive a car but don't know how a car works.

>>51186532
it's not A, left isn't 5 times size of right. 2.5x seems more reasonable

>>51186627
Probably a chink, and he doesn't say how many students were actually checked for knowledge of it. Academia has this weird obsession with asking 10 people a question and applying it to the entire country.

"100% of Americans hate Obama according to a survey taken at a Klan march!"

>>51186677
Are you implying a Pulitzer and Presidential Medal of Freedom awardee who has actually been on a stamp is "less worthy of recognition?"

Nevermind a Prescriptionist approach, which I assume you're advocating for of "we should only teach about people of 'merit'" Descriptivist means this is a person of note who has had an impact and people need to know about.

>>51186638
>"PEMDAS was taught to me in the third grade"

Again, flawless reasoning. How many years has it been since you were in an elementary classroom? If the answer is "more than three", you don't know what you're talking about.

Please try to understand that "the way they did it when I was in school" does not have any bearing on the way it's done now.

>>51186733
You know, we could always look up the study and see exactly how many people they checked instead of making assumptions and basing our arguments on speculation and bullshit.

>>51186621
>how is "the historical facts of the life of noted literary figure Maya Angelou" controversial?
It's not, /pol/fags just really enjoy spending all their time monitoring other boards looking for things to get outraged about.

>>51186032
That example was off a book, Maya Angelo's "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" which was a depressing as fuck autobiography, not a made up problem. Is still pretty stupid though.

This thread is full of common core shills.

>>51186382
still not even remotely relevant to math, or learning math, or displaying a functional knowledge of math.

>>51186788

You can get a sense of the methodology here:

https://www.academia.edu/326917/AN_INTERNATIONAL_COMPARISON_OF_GRADE_6_STUDENTS_UNDERSTANDING_OF_THE_EQUAL_SIGN

>>51186382
also, the question isnt about maya angelou, it is about determining the values of two variables in an equation set.

>>51186807
They're as bad as SJW's aren't they?

>>51186817
She's not even relevant, she's just some woman who wrote books about herself like a narcissist.

>>51186733
While 10 people are definitely too little, it should be obvious as fuck why you don't ask the whole country when trying to figure out what people thin. Well, maybe not as clear in this age of computers and the Internet, admittedly. Acquiring a reasonably sized and representative sample is important, of course, but there is nothing really wrong with generalizing the results of that sample to the whole population. More than that, there is no real alternative to doing so.

>>51186770
> Are you implying a Pulitzer and Presidential Medal of Freedom awardee who has actually been on a stamp is "less worthy of recognition?"
Not him, but yes.
The test of history tends to reveal those who are truly important and those who are just enjoying their 15 minutes of fame.

Plato, Shakespeare, Nero, Caesar, Louis XIV - I'm simply randomly naming people at this point, and yet there is a common quality all of these people have - they are all unanimously recognized as important figures in human history, so important that despite the fact that centuries and milleniums passed, we still remember them for their words and actions.

I can guarantee you that literally no one who won a Pulitzer award will be remembered the same as the people above in a few centuries.

>>51186901
They are like SJW's in a lot of ways. Similar personalities, opposed agendas.

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Couldn't help myself.

>>51186966
>none of the posts are replying to each other
That's almost impressive.

>>51186943
There are plenty of Roman and Greek writers, for instance, who are remembered these days for achievemnts neither greater nor lesser than those of Pulitzer winners. Aside from that, historical figures can be relevant today regardless of whether they'll be remembered in a few centuries.

>>51186944
I wish they'd just hate fuck already, that way they'd finally get laid.

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>>51186590
Humans are terrible at judging the proportions of circles.

Which is why no-one should ever use pie charts for anything.

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>Americans

>>51186996
And just because they are relevant today doesn't mean you need to know their life details before you examine their works themselves.

>>51186578
This looks like made up garbage written by a Russian ESL student. Seriously, you think this is a citation or proof of some kind? That's rich.

>>51187008
As an American, I am proud of my ability to accurately judge the proportional size of pizza slices and always grab the largest one first.

>>51187008
Depends on what you want to convey. When there's an overwhelming majority pie charts illustrate that point better than bar graphs.

>>51185182
Hey OP! It's easy! Follow me!

d2 = 1d20 / 2
d3 = 1d6 % 3
d4 = 1d4
d6 = 1d6
d8 = 1d8
d9 = ((1d3-1)*3)+1d3
d10 = 1d10
d12 = 1d12
d16 = ((1d4-1)*4)+1d4
d18 = ((1d3-1)*6)+1d6
d20 = 1d20
d24 = ((1d4-1)*6)+1d6
d27 = ((1d3-1)*9)+(((1d3-1)*3)+1d3)
d30 = ((1d10-1)*3)+1d3
d32 = ((1d4-1)*8)+1d8
d36 = ((1d6-1)*6)+1d6
d40 = ((1d4-1)*10)+1d10
d48 = ((1d6-1)*8)+1d8
d54 = ((1d6-1)*9)+(((1d3-1)*3)+1d3)
d60 = ((1d3-1)*20)+1d20
d64 = ((1d8-1)*8)+1d8
d72 = ((1d6-1)*12)+1d12
d80 = ((1d8-1)*10)+1d10
d96 = ((1d8-1)*12)+1d12
d100 = ((1d10-1)*10)+1d10
d108 = ((1d12-1)*9)+(((1d3-1)*3)+1d3)
d120 = ((1d10-1)*12)+1d12
d128 = ((1d8-1)*16)+(((1d4-1)*4)+1d4)
d144 = ((1d12-1)*12)+1d12
d160 = ((1d8-1)*20)+1d20
d192 = ((1d12-1)*16)+(((1d4-1)*4)+1d4)
d200 = ((1d10-1)*20)+1d20
d216 = ((1d12-1)*18)+(((1d3-1)*6)+1d6)
d240 = ((1d12-1)*20)+1d20
d256 = ((((1d4-1)*4)+1d4-1))*16+(((1d4-1)*4)+1d4)
d320 = ((1d20-1)*16)+(((1d4-1)*4)+1d4)
d324 = ((((1d3-1)*6)+1d6)-1)*18)+(((1d3-1)*6)+1d6)
d360 = ((1d20-1)*18)+(((1d3-1)*6)+1d6)
d400 = ((1d20-1)*20)+1d20

>>51186785
fundamental problem with the system, they keep fixing what isn't broken.

>it worked fine when i was a kid.
>they do it different today
>kids today don't know "anything"

i am not saying methods can't be improved, but they can certainly be evaluated and rolled back to previously working methods

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>>51187048
I'm so proud, anon.

>>51187068
Now do one for a d7

>>51187064
>When there's an overwhelming majority pie
No, it doesn't. A compound bar chart also conveys a ratio. Humans are better at calculating line ratios than circle ratios, hence have a much better grasp of how big "the majority" is on a line than a circle. That's the way our brains are wired.

>>51187110
>non-euclidean dice
Disgusting.

>>51187088
More importantly, we passed those methods, and we succeeded in life.Obviously, we had the objectively best upbringing.

>>51186899
There are two ways to arrive at the correct answer--by doing math, or by knowing the context of Maya Angelou's writing.

Like how you can get through a locked door with a Strength check OR an Open Lock check.

>>51186785
Listen, if they aren't teach kids how to do actual math, you shouldn't be defending those decisions.

I weep for the university professors who are going to have to deal with kids using "number sentences"

>>51186770
... a stamp of what

>>51187137
>and we succeeded in life.
Posting on a Korean basketweaving forum and succeeding in life aren't exactly mutually compatible things.

>>51187148
If you can derive an answer by avoiding the math, it's not math. It's deceptive evasion.

Common core is dumbing down STEM even further so that black and hispanic underachievers feel better. The results will be horrific.

>>51187134
dPi
di
de
d(2^(1/2))

Do it fag

>>51187148
And what's the fucking point of that? Why give a test or quiz on math if you don't even need to know math to get the question right?
Quizzes and tests and the like aren't obstacles kids need to surpass, they are quite literally tests and examinations to gauge their understanding of a material.

>>51187088
I think the main problem is that previous methods didn't actually work, so they're trying new things in the hopes that something sticks.

Consider this: How many years of science classes did you take? How much of all that do you remember? Kids only learn when they're paying attention, but modern classrooms and teaching methods (as in, the kind you and I grew up with) are psychologically the worst way to do that. As in, they actually couldn't be any worse for teaching. They are the opposite of how we as a species are designed to learn, and the children actually suffer for it in terms of what they retain and can accomplish afterwards.

>>51187156
I'm not defending shit; I'm the one who offered to rant about the broken US education system upthread.

I'm just pointing out that stating "this is how they did it when I was a kid" is absolutely meaningless in the context of "how do they do it TODAY".

Just because they successfully taught second-graders how to multiply in the past, there is no basis for using that fact to bolster a statement about what is being currently taught to second-graders.

>>51187156
>I weep for liberals
You should be shot now, but lets see the rest of your failings

>I weep for the university professors who are going to have to deal with
Liberal intellectualys can't be forced to deal with reality, let alone students.

>I weep for the university professors who are going to have to deal with kids

>I weep for the university professors who are going to have to deal with using "Number sentences"
Okay addressing your statement as you so stupidly intended, the professor will ignore anything the snotnosed millenials say, and then just order them to do the homework or fail them. STEM is not your bleeding heart subjectively-right-objectively-wrong bullshit arts and humanities garbage.

>>51187203
dPi/di = P.
de/d(2^(1/2)) = 0.

>>51187203
..You goddamned hippies need to not even be allowed to speak about education. OF COURSE a test is an obstacle, its how the kids get to the next grade! If they don't understand it, then the goddamn braindead poorfags need to get sent to a public school, since they're obviously unable to be helped by teachers and tutors.

>>51187203
>Quizzes and tests and the like aren't obstacles kids need to surpass, they are quite literally tests and examinations to gauge their understanding of a material.
Maybe once, but not any more. Elementary school and high school are now mandatory obstacles that every child and teenager must get past in order to be realistically capable of finding employment as an adult. College is still mostly actually about education, and grad school sure as hell is, but, up until you graduate high school, the entire point of school lies halfway between "preparing you for college, if you're going" and "giving you a sticker on your resume that says that you put in the raw man-hours to be considered an adult"

>>51187148
well that defeats the entire point of learning(understanding) math. congratulations. you WILL fail when there are no alternative methods.

>>51187267
Do we have any source confirming it's a math test? I would otherwise assume it to be some kind of generalized aptitude test.

>>51187110
d7 = ⌈d10 * 0.7⌉

>>51187214
>the professor will ignore anything the snotnosed millenials say, and then just order them to do the homework or fail them and lose his chance at tenure because he failed too many students

Huh.

>>51187214

>STEM is not your bleeding heart subjectively-right-objectively-wrong bullshit arts and humanities garbage.

You know, the sheer number of people I've seen fail philosophy courses always makes lines like this entertain me. You can very, very much fail that. Much like math, they want to see your working. Not just your final answer.

>>51187365
Again, STEM. STEM students are eager to achieve and excel. There is no coddling, no handouts, no handholds, just pure educational assemblyline. God, you probably can't even imagine that, you entitled little minority-pass-because-you-fuck-men garbage

>>51187213
Ah, I must have gotten the post chain mixed up somewhere then. Sorry anon, I agree with you.

>>51187214
Ignoring most of the first part of that post, I am STEM you autist. I was just making a joke on how frustrated math profs are going to be when nobody in their class uses the same terminology.

>You should be shot now, but lets see the rest of your failings
What?

>>51187246
>You goddamned hippies need to not even be allowed to speak about education.
What the fuck are you on about? I am about as far from a hippy as you can be, famigo.

>OF COURSE a test is an obstacle, its how the kids get to the next grade!
Yes, but it's meant to be passed in a SPECIFIC way, based upon whether the student understands the material it's covering, not because "hey, you know this one third of the curriculum pretty well, and that's good enough for us!"

>>51187254
I was just being ambiguous, I meant to say that they're obstacles based on the understanding of a specific material, not everything thrown into one pot.

>>51187292
If all the questions follow that same pattern then you could presumably get a perfect score with perfect literary knowledge, but zero math knowledge.
If half the questions were mathematics and half were literary, you'd only get a 50.
It's a horribly retarded way to construct a test.

>>51187214
Yeah, fuck those liberal intellectuals who came up with pretty much everything that enables you to live your comfortable modern life. University professors aren't a separate breed from scientists who actually do research that leads to things. Aside from that, what do you think will happen if professors are forced to just fail a large portion of their students beacuse elementary and high school didn't give them the basic knowledge they need to even begin their university studies? I'm not talking about any shit from higher ups or students or their families or anything like that, either. I'm talking about the implications of ot being able to educate enough engineers, mathematiciansa, programmers or whatever for the society's needs.

>>51187246
Obstacle is something you can surpass in any way whatsoever, as long as you surpass it. If a test was primarily an obstacle, cheating would be all well and good as long as you don't get caught What tests actually are for is measuring a child's abilities in some very specific area, helping both him and his teachers figure out what he knows and where he needs to improve.

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every day we inch closer and closer towards becoming /v/

>>51187397
>Obstacle is something you can surpass in any way whatsoever, as long as you surpass it. If a test was primarily an obstacle, cheating would be all well and good as long as you don't get caught What tests actually are for is measuring a child's abilities in some very specific area, helping both him and his teachers figure out what he knows and where he needs to improve.

Yes, this is what I was trying to get across in >>51187385

>>51187383
>There is no coddling, no handouts, no handholds, just pure educational assemblyline.

Yeah, I'm IN a STEM course and that's bullshit. They run session after session of 'Come ask for help' stuff have have a place you can go at uni all the time if you need someone to give you a hand.

Mostly because they want you to actually learn. Not just sit there and go 'If you don't learn exactly how the lecture teaches, we will fail you without mercy'. Heck, I've gone and gotten the head of the subject to sit down with me before and explain some things I didn't get in the lectures.

>>51186100
I saw this as a sideways bowl with a hole in the bottom. I guess I was wrong in seeing it like that...

What am I supposed to do? Gauge how big the ovals are compared to each other? The small one is 2/5 of the middle one. The middle one is 5/7 of the big one?

This problem is BS!

>>51187365
>>51187381
>>51187385
>>51187397
Please, please, PLEASE stop responding to the blatantly obvious bait posts, you morons. I don't care how educated you are, if you responded to those with a serious reply, you're a gaggle of fucking idiots for all the difference it makes.

This thread may have been derailed from the get-go, but it's still kind of nice even then. Don't ruin it like that.

>>51187431
Well, universities differ. Maybe anon went to one where the staff doesn't actually give a shit about whether students learn or not. I'm not sure why he'd talk about shitty education like it's something desirable, though.

>>51187211
if it didn't work, then how did we get to the point where we know that stuff and remember learning it? if it didn't work, then we would all be saying "yeah i didn't understand the equal sign when i was a kid either," not the other way round.

I took 4 yrs of science in HS and 5 yrs of math, using elective class slots and summer school, just because I wanted too.
how much do i remember, well I find that to be a function of my usage of the skills and knowledge. as an electrician, i use quite a bit of middle math- algebra and geometry, some trig, but no calculus, and for the science, some of the basic physical and chem concepts and sometimes physics principles, but not any biology, or advanced chem/physics.

>>51187381
Vapid headed cunts who stop at starbucks and get their fair-trade maciacchocpaootujcihons coffee and then show up an hour late to class while tweeting constantly will fail anything.

except women's studies.

>>51187397
Researchers and engineers =/= college professors. college professors are people who can't hack it in the real field so they sit at a desk and babysit millenials for a job. The only thing these assholes have created was feminism and SJWism. And no, oh my god, if the child fails the test, then they go through the program again. If they fail it again, well, I don't know what to do with examples of complete human wastes. Feed them to the other poor children, I don't know.

>>51187431
This, I know that my school in particular has weekly review sessions for math courses, along with an almost-always-open lab with upperclassman to provide tutoring.

>>51187148
>Like how you can get through a locked door with a Strength check OR an Open Lock check.

Reminds me of my freshman year of college in 1998. Our campus had computers, but only a very primitive network so updates had to be manually performed on each machine. I've never been good at math, so I was flagged as being required to take a remedial math class when I started college. Every day, myself and the other delinquents would file into the classroom to try and learn how to college math, then that afternoon we would be assigned to a computer lab to take a computerized math test. We were required to take it by 3:00 pm that afternoon, because after 3:00 the computer would not allow you to take it. At 5:00 pm every day, the teacher would post the answers so we could learn from our mistakes.

As I said, the computers were not networked. After the first week, I realized that I could just wait until after 5:00 when the answers were available, set the computer's clock back to 1:00 pm, take the test and print out the results (the computer would timestamp it based on what that machine's clock showed).

Needless to say, I got an A in that remedial math class.

>>51187431
Ditto. Teaching rote memorization in higher education would be pointless waste of time. University is there to teach you to become an independent researcher in your chosen field.

>>51187483

>Vapid headed cunts who stop at starbucks and get their fair-trade maciacchocpaootujcihons coffee and then show up an hour late to class while tweeting constantly will fail anything.

Honestly, most of the ones I see fail are people who are otherwise doing STEM or other 'hard' courses who pick up philosophy thinking that it's going to be an easy course. So really it's more the idiots downing energy drinks and talking during lectures about DOTA.

>>51187486
>>51187431
Gotta get the poor people financial aid somehow

>>51187436
>What am I supposed to do? Gauge how big the ovals are compared to each other? The small one is 2/5 of the middle one. The middle one is 5/7 of the big one?

100% chance that the teacher has already spent some time explaining the concept of the oval ratios before giving the kids this test.

>>51187483
>Researchers and engineers =/= college professors.
Anon, mathematics professors ARE mathematics researchers.
Lectures aren't the core of their job, it's just what the university has them do to actually earn their tenure.
That as well as keeping the professors up to snuff on their basics. I'm in a mathematics major, and I've become so utterly horrible at doing real arithmetic because all my courses are symbolic.

>>51187483
>Researchers and engineers =/= college professors. college professors are people who can't hack it in the real field so they sit at a desk and babysit millenials for a job.
I have no idea where you're from, but around here a good chunk of research is done in universities, and the people doing the research also teach students. I'm pretty sure you'll find that quite a few, say, Nobel Laureates in physics or mathematicians who ahve been awarded the Fields Medal are or were professors.

>>51187524

...I'm not even parsing that. Are you saying it's a bad thing for a uni to try to...teach?

>>51187536
>>51187533
What kind of communist shithole do you live in where the private sector isn't doing that?

>>51187483
>And no, oh my god, if the child fails the test, then they go through the program again. If they fail it again, well, I don't know what to do with examples of complete human wastes. Feed them to the other poor children, I don't know.
Nice waste of resources. You could also figure out why the kid failed, give some supplementary lessons on the areas that were the problem instead of teaching everything again, but I guess wasting everyone's time is not a problem for you.

>>51187524
Anon, it's students who got good grades in the class when they took it along with TA's who do those things.
Stop baiting.

>>51187482
Your choice of electives shows, in that you missed a crucial part of that post.

>>51187211
>Kids only learn when they're paying attention
>but modern classrooms and teaching methods are psychologically the worst way to do that

It's nice that you're trying to use reason with this, but you're going about it all wrong. You're making the mistake if thinking you were the norm rather than the exception, and also failed to separate the key requirement for success (kid pays attention) from the overall problem (classrooms are bad at encouraging attention).

Obviously, a kid who can pay attention regardless of the environment he's in (your typical autist, for example) will succeed even in a terrible learning environment. That doesn't change the fact that it's still the worse possible way for a mentally complete and healthy person to learn, which is more important since they're the vast majority and it wouldn't affect the autists either way.

>>51187543
Much like starter decks for MTG, you have to have some sort of hand out or welfare system to make sure that you can capture revenue from low income aspirants

>>51187560
Anon, most universities are private to some degree.

I'm also struggling to think of any industry besides universities and state-sponsored research institutes that would higher mathematicians to research theoretical mathematics.

>>51187203
For some reason, anydice won't parse 1d
3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081284811174502841027019385211055596446229489549303819644288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091456485669234603486104543266482133936072602491412737245870066063155881748815209209628292540917153643678925903600113305305488204665213841469519415116094330572703657595919530921861173819326117931051185480744623799627495673518857527248912279381830119491298336733624406566430860213949463952247371907021798609437027705392171762931767523846748184676694051320005681271452635608277857713427577896091736371787214684409012249534301465495853710507922796892589235420199561121290219608640344181598136297747713099605187072113499999983729780499510597317328160963185950244594553469083026425223082533446850352619311881710100031378387528865875332083814206171776691473035982534904287554687311595628638823537875937519577818577805321712268066130019278766111959092164201989

which really makes me sad.

>>51187582
If classes lasted for three hours instead of less than one with people having to pack their shit up, move to another class, go through the register, go to assemblies, and do all kinds of disruptive shit it would solve a fuckton of problems in schools.

I'm of the believe that from fourth grade onwards, schools should be fined harshly for "busywork". That's not teaching, it's time wasting.

>>51187560
The Western world? Where on Earth do university professors only teach? Obviously private sector also does research, though often the focus is on applied rather than basic research. Research is part of the core purpose of universities in most of the world, though.

>>51187620
>schools should be fined harshly
Which is ironic, because the low income schools are the ones that need the busywork to keep the disruptive low-quality students maintained

>>51187620
There is a limit to how long kids can focus, though. I do kind of agree about busywok, though.

>>51187397
>Yeah, fuck those liberal intellectuals who came up with pretty much everything that enables you to live your comfortable modern life. University professors aren't a separate breed from scientists who actually do research that leads to things.
Yes they are and we had this same discussion two days ago.There is a world of difference between humanities circlejerk and STEM research.

>>51187620
Three hours is far too long for a class, trust me. Two hours would be a fine bloc, since that'd give time for three subjects in a standard school day, in addition to class change and lunch.

>>51187397
No gender studies professor has come up with anything that makes made my life more comfortable.

>>51187661
There's also a limit to the minimum time humans need to adjust tasks and running all over the building and having to deal with inane shit means that millions of hours are lost every year in education.

>>51187431

There's a difference between a handout and being given the tools to help you succeed.

A handout is when somebody tells you exactly what's gonna be on the test, or when the professor does a curve.

Being given the tools is office hours, free tutoring, study groups, and so on. It's stuff you can use to to help you pass the course.

>>51187677
But university professors in STEM subjects are professors. Like, take alook at the guys who were awarded the Nobel Prize fo Physics last year. They're professors. Tops of any academic field, which obviously includes scientific fields, are likley to be professors.

>>51187703
That's probably because you aren't the topic of their studies.

>>51187720
>But university professors in STEM subjects are professors.
Should obviously be researchers.

>>51187720
Are you saying they are the same kind of professors ? Because their results show otherwise : their graduates have 20 lower unemployment figures as the humanities university next door.

Also don't believe the pure scientist meme : half the STEM professors have a foot in the industry as part of their researches.

>>51187791
Same kind of professors as what? This branch of discussion started from someone's statement about math professors, which led to another dude talking shit about professors in general. Why are you suddenly talking about humanities? Leave the goalposts where they are and admit you were wrong.

>>51186588
nope, only 70%

>>51187719
And these publicly funded millenial mills need to not spend my tax money when they should have been given the tools by their last school and their families, not given even more welfare so that Laquisha and Tayvon can go to college and not know jack shit

>>51187738
Professors ARE researchers most of the time. There job isn't just talking for three hours a week and hassling an assistant to hand out multiple choice tests once or twice a year.

What do STEMfags actually do besides shitpost about how they're the only real disciplines and how hard their classes are

They whine more than med students, I swear

>>51185182
Remember Bhaskara? You will need it.

>>51186548
>Not that anon, but keep in mind that you no longer count as a child and any statements about how you knew something as a child are meaningless.
Literally "you don't have an uterus, so you can't discuss abortion" argument that rad-fems so often give.

>>51187833
I butted in the convo when you said that professors in STEM field were the same as in humanities. It's wrong, they are not.

>>51187866
Make money, that swhat

liberals and liberal arts btfo

>>51187875
>Literally "you haven't seen the inside of an abortion clinic in 20 years, so you don't know what the inside of an abortion clinic looks like today"

I do appreciate the attempt to discredit my reasoning by yoking me to "rad-fems". It lets me know you don't really have any basis for an argument.

>>51187866
Work, usually.

>>51187612
what the hell would you use that for? Random distance around a circle?

WHy not make a circle of circumference 6, 8, 20 or hatever and roll a normal dice?

>>51187914
The point I'm trying to make is that you can't shutdown the opponent's argument simply by claiming hypocrisy or ad hominem. I'm not even the original guy you were talking to.

>>51187914
Ooooh, liberal "intellectual" knows how everyone is inferior to him. Thats why they won all those elections...

Statistics are pretty important.

>>51187967
*basic probability

>>51187938
>you can't shutdown the opponent's argument simply by claiming hypocrisy or ad hominem
Correct, but I *can* shut down my opponent's argument by pointing out that his information is outdated and therefore absolutely inconsequential. Allow me to elaborate with some greentext:

>What nation borders Mongolia to the north?
>The USSR
>Incorrect
>BUT MY MAP FROM 1980 SAYS USSR, LIBERAL FAGGOT BTFO

>>51187906
Real money's in business, marketing, and law though. STEM fields are moderately compensated for their skills.

>>51188033
Well, they're comin' back.

>>51188055
>real money is in the organizations dedicated to making money, the ones that promote their products to make more money, and the groups that defend their ability to make money
You don't say.

STEM students never rise above the rank of minion, though they are at least well paid minions.

>>51187884
I love the regular outcry when some sociologist publish a joke article, nobody bats an eye or outright praise him, and it only gets discovered when the sociologist himself admits it.

True science there.

>>51188178
To be fair, the ones who don't get the joke are the people who don't study sociology, and half the reason for making joke articles is to point out how basically nobody outside the field knows anything about it.

>>51188280
>the ones who don't get the joke are the people who don't study sociology
Yes, probably all those reviewers don't know sociology at all.

>>51188312
Clearly, if they missed the fact that it was a bullshit joke article.

>>51188334
Well except the reviewers for an sociology article in a sociology journal are surely sociologist themselves, that's how scientific publications work.

>>51186926
Well obviously, but that's why you're supposed to do a couple hundred at the very least. There are plenty of numbers between 10 and 300,000,000.

>>51188422
Sure, I completely agree with that.

>>51188401
Isn't the brain basically a black box? We don't have the tech to look inside it while it's working, so the only way we can analyze it is through input/output, right?

I can imagine the difficulty in separating real experiments from cleverly disguised nonsense.

>>51187403
This was more of a solid leap towards /v/.

>>51188505
It's mostly all the /pol/ false flagging.

Should that be called /pol/and posting?

>>51185182
Basic math will suffice for pretty much all good TTRPGS. Despite what memes you might hear even GURPS only needs basic math except for as >>51185321 said 3e vehicle creation, and nobody uses those rules.

>>51188547
More like /pol/esucking

You should be fine unless you're a dropout or a retard. In both of those cases you're probably too dumb to actually enjoy the game properly.

>>51185182
To play a game, only addition and subtraction.

To optimize, the most difficult task you'll find is stuff like mean damage output and standard deviation, or determining the advantages of re-rolling over taking a static bonus. Even then, you can often quickly find a calculation spreadsheet online. So, not that much.

>>51187068
Sorry, but what is the mark-up on d3? What does the % sign mean in this context?

>>51188474
Are you fucking stupid? I don't think you meant to blatantly broadcast how little you know about the subject.

>>51188983
Modulo, but he forgot to add +1 at the end.

>>51189126
Damn, you beat me to it.

>>51186578
>4+3+2=(9)+2=11
Is it that 4+3+2=9? And then adding 2 to that you get 11? If that's the case, it may be that the combination of the parentheses and the equals sign are confusing people. And to be fair, parentheses indicate something in mathematical notation that has no purpose here. So the parentheses are being repurposed to mean "insert value here", and if you're changing the purpose of them in that way, maybe you're also changing them in other ways. Really, I think this comes down to confusion over the way the question was being presented.

>Students for check needed to add expressions like it:
Were the instructions presented in similar grammatical quality? Because if they were, I *really* understand the confusion.

>>51189366
I don't want to sound like a /pol/fag here, but that "assessment" was clearly written by either a South Korean or a Chinese person with the specific intention of promoting their country's education system by denigrating others. When you see statements like "about 100% of students understand this" you know they're fudging the numbers.

"Saddam Hussein has a 99% approval rating" kind of thing.

>>51187068
>d2 = 1d20 / 2
And we're off to a good start.

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>>51187068
>d2 = 1d20 / 2

>>51189126
>>51189147
Thank (you)!

>>51186448
>Second graders aren't as intelligent as you imagine that you were in second grade.
I was taught the word "equation" as soon as we started getting equations as problems. I have never even heard the expression "number sentence" before

>>51188825
>his games don't require even multivariable calculus
Why even play?

>implying kids were ever motivated to learn
>implying primary school curricula were ever relevant
>implying all undergraduate education isn't glorified babysitting

>>51190694
>low expectations of children, education, and institutions
No wonder my kids are running educational circles around their peers.

>>51190815
Are you Asian?

>>51190831
Just not a lazy idiot driving my child into a life of inadequacy, is all.

>>51186578
Ah: the problem is that this has been illustrated incorrectly:

The equation was presented as

"Solve

A + B + C = ( __ ) + C"

This can be easily misconstrued as "Add 2 to the sum of the numbers preceding "

It should have been presented as

"Solve *for X*

A + B + C = (X) + C"

A blank space is not a variable.

>>51191077
>This can be easily misconstrued as "Add 2 to the sum of the numbers preceding"
Are you thick?

>>51190871
>>51190831
>>51190815
Daily reminder that public schools are just tax-funded daycare institutes for poorfags.

>>51192662
That's oversimplification, but there's some truth to it, yes.

>>51192662
>t. American

>>51185601
And also, knowing that just because you rolled a 1 doesn't mean your chances of rolling a 20 are any better.

>>51186185
>I've got a bachelors in mechanical and in electrical engineering and I'd have a 50% chance of getting this wrong. Why do the ovals overlap? Why is there free space? Why aren't they circles? Is this going by surface area, if so is A really supposed to be the answer?

That's just the point.

With old maths if you understood and followed the rules you got the right answer nine times out of 10.

That meant some kids (ie the ones who knew what they were doing and put the work in) would get consistently better grades. The ones who did not would fail.

Common core however means even the smart kids will get the answers wrong half the time. There is no to disparage because everyone is equally.

>>51194534
Wut.
Common Core isn't some Harrison Bergeron bullshit about equality.
It's just a different way to look at math. Kids who grow up learning it will handle it just fine. It's adults who learned the old way that are throwing a fit just because it's different.

>>51194634
>It's just a different way to look at math. Kids who grow up learning it will handle it just fine. It's adults who learned the old way that are throwing a fit just because it's different.

>"All perspectives and viewpoints are equivalent"

It's even more obfuscated and removed from actual mathematics than the way the current adults learned it.

I never went to college and I have a dyscalculia. Didn't stop me from playing GURPS although it was intimidating and hard at first.

>>51185233
>College level math for D&D 2nd Edition
>basic addition and subtraction is college level math

Holy shit anon, you're literally retarded. There's no coming back from that statement.

>>51194634
Using BODMAS instead of PEMDAS is just doing things differently.

Common Core only exist so they have a way to deduct points form Michael and Chang and bring them in line with the rest the class.

It's not about explaining maths to children useing natural language. It's not about imparting knowledge to children at all.

It's simply making sure children from better educated backgrounds don't get better results. It's the monkey house.

>>51186100
I have a masters in math and this triggers me

>>51194878
It's a common misconception. People think it's hard to learn because it's complicated. The truth is it simply is a result of a total lack of editing oversight and the stubbornest to change anything that's been grandfathered in regardless of how retarded it was.

Look at THAC0. It's not complicated at all, it's just insanity bad design.

>>51185182
You need at least a semester of undergraduate level Linear Algebra to play D&D 5e (not DM). Real Analysis helps also, but don't expect to master the system without devoting a considerable amount of your advanced studies to discrete maths.

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>>51185940
>>51186032
>>51185927
Maya Angelou, you uncultered fucking swine. Pick up a god damn book.

>>51186864
I disagree: mixing subjects together 'intelligently' allows for real world applicability to percolate through their retarded skulls. To be fair, this question is stupid as hell and poorly designed: kids should learn about the french revolution by calculating the hypotenuse of a right-triangle guilliotine or something.

>>51186943
Nero wasn't really important to history, but otherwise good point.

>>51197794
>I disagree: mixing subjects together 'intelligently' allows for real world applicability to percolate through their retarded skulls. To be fair, this question is stupid as hell and poorly designed: kids should learn about the french revolution by calculating the hypotenuse of a right-triangle guilliotine or something.
No, that's fucking retarded and contrived.

Kids should learn about the French revolution by learning about the French revolution, and they should learn about the hypotenuse of a right-triangle by learning about the hypotenuse of a right-triangle.

There's a difference between making connections between different subjects in a field, and trying to shoehorn math into history or language into science for the sake of "interdisciplinary study"

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>>51197850
Really?

Because I tutor the little retards through this garbage, and guess what? Shoehorning in shit works occasionally.

It also demonstrates the barest inkling of applicability, telling them why Paul the blacksmith cut the blade in that shape, a problem that plagues a lot of these idiots since they never think to use the shit they've learned out of the respective classroom.

>>51185182
This is the most lawful evil image I've seen all day.

>>51197970
>It also demonstrates the barest inkling of applicability, telling them why Paul the blacksmith cut the blade in that shape
That's not even on the same tier as "okay little goys and gals, let's calculate the hypotenuse of this guillotine" or "what's 2 times 3, as well as the subthemes of [insert semi-obscure author here]"

>>51194728
I'd wager a pretty sum that you have no fucking idea what "actual mathematics" is

I'm not an americlap but everything I've seen seems that it focuses more on understanding properties of numbers and other mathematical objects, rather than just being an efficient calculator.

>>51186000
Shit is pretty context-sensitive dude. Liberal in modern US parlance is a byword for "leftist," and is not necessarily 100% analogous to the classical philosophy of "liberalism." Everyone seems to obsess over coming to terms with this divide somehow, but honestly it's just two different uses of the same word like how "hot" can mean "spicy," "possessing a high temperature," and "sexually arousing" all at the same time and nobody really seems to be having existential crises about that.

>>51185182
>How much math do I need to know to be good at role-playing games?

Math in RPGs is usually only a problem because of the sheer volume of it, not because any of the individual calculations would be complex. For example, D&D only ever asks you to add or substract, the annoyance comes from having to add or substract something like 18+0+1+1+1+2+1-2-1-0+1+0+0+0+0+=?

>>51194534
>>51194005
>>51193344
>>51192713
Check out these 40 minute post time differences, with just a few posts, you can keep a non-/tg/ thread float almost indefinitely.

You see how there was active, living discussion early on for the first five hours, but then it starts to peter out. But with carefully placed shitposts about once an hour, you can keep a thread alive all day!

>>51198140
I don't necessarily disagree, but I think it's a bit disingenuous to compare "hot" to liberal; people never get the different types of hot confused, but everytime someone says liberal some people will interpret it was one thing, and others as another.

It just stems from a misunderstanding of how the political compass, or liberalism itself.

>>51198140

Added problem is how "leftist" means completely different things based on region, culture and era.

>>51198114
Considering I'm in a major heavily related to mathematics, I'd say you'd lost that bet.

Both the "old way" and the "new way" give plenty of insight into the properties of numbers as they are, without adding on loads of obfuscating bullshit, AND have the added benefit of being efficient calculation.

This is one of those situations where you can have your cake, and eat it too.

But go ahead, tell me how common core/new math offers a more subtle, nuanced insight into the nature of mathematics on a level that children can appreciate.

>>51186000
>>51198207
Both leftist liberals and libertarian liberals are cancer, so it doesn't really matter.

>>51198220
I can't believe anyone who uses the labels sincerely does enough thinking to make any use of the insight. It's just naked tribalism.

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>What's wrong anon?
>Common Core is perfectly fine

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>>51198281

>>51198281
>>51198296
>take a common core sheet
>handwrite bullshit on it

LOOK GUYS COMMON CORE SUCKS!!!!!

>>51198296
...the... friendly numbers?

What is this... could someone explain what the shit they're even trying to ask for?

>>51198281
>>51198296
I have an master degree in materials science and another one in nanoscale engineering and I don't understand this shit.

>>51198221
>heavily related
t.engineer

This is backpeddling as fuck, but I've literally never seen anything in common core than I've considered problematic, or obfuscating in any way. The standards of common core are actually pretty lax, it's just an alternative approach that republitards blow up over because they're liberals, in the worse sense.

>>51198319

Even the printed stuff is kinda ridiculous. I still don't understand exactly why they're adding extra steps to arithmetic. Seems like addition and subtraction should be pretty straightforward. Like, I know 220-190 and 230-200 are the same thing, but why not just subtract 190 from 220 in the first place instead?

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Holy Christ, every post in this thread is solid fucking gold
Good work anons

>>51198357
>t.engineer
t.actuary*

Two things I have to ask.
Do you think that it's not obfuscating to children? Do you think they're smart enough to understand it like you can?
Why does it even need to be an alternative approach? If the older approach worked fine, why not stay with it? If an even older approach worked better, why not return to it?
Progress for the sake of progress is cancer.

>>51198323
>>51198367
The student subtracted 30 from 200, when he should've subtracted 30 from 200, because it's a smaller number and hence 'friendlier' to most people.

That's literally it.

>>51198323

It's probably a shorthand for simplifying the complexity of a calculation, just with poor examples. Has some value for mental arithmetic.

It also looks like they're trying to teach arithmetic in a way to prepare students for algebra. Where the numbers aren't as important as the relationship between them. Recognizing that, say 100 - 50 is the same thing as 150 - 100, is the same thing as 200 - 150, is the same as whatever does have some value.

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My first RPG was GURPS. Never found it that hard myself.

>>51198367

This. Even without the "friendly numbers" and complete ignorance of the concept of fractions, which as anon has pointed out could very easily be fake, you still have to ask why kids are being taught to "draw and label a tape diagram" in order to carry out basic subtraction problems.

If you look at it you can see that the kid has written the subtraction next to it in the standard format anyway. What's the point of cluttering their heads with "tape diagram" bullshit, if you're just going to teach them standard arithmetic methods anyway?

It seems to be prioritising this concept of "simplifying the problem" instead of just solving it, and ironically this means adding whole new unnecessary steps to the equation which blatantly complicate it.

Reminds me of the old quote:

>"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."

William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

The US government goes to some pretty extraordinary lengths to mindfuck its general populace.

>>51198431
I'm sorry bruh, I couldn't study actuary if you paid me

I mean I can't say for sure, but I think it's similarly easy to see it was impossible to learn just because you learned a different way. Once again, I don't have a huge amount of expertise on the area as a non-american, but I've seen no problem with anything people rage about.

Something working "fine" doesn't mean you should never change, we should strive for excellence, no? I think it's a big arrogant to assume we can't improve on the old formula, maybe this is the wrong way, but that's not the same issue.

>>51198323
>>51198367
>>51198344

If I get it right, the idea is to make the kids go through extra steps that would make the calculations easier to do in your head. For example, it's easier to calculate 200-150 than 197-147 even though there's mathematically no difference, so they teach kids to add 3 to "make the numbers less scary".

Problem with it is that they're doing this shit in a written test and requiring the intermediate steps.

So, reading through the thread and actually being curious about the topic, I looked up a video that explains common core (a real educational video, not a biased "we're explaining it, but we're gonna talk shit about it the whole way to convince you" video), and conceptually, I think I understand what the supporters of common core are saying.

My opinion of it being silly might come from a bias of being one of those kids who was "good at math", and actually understood the concepts behind the material we were learning. So, when the video I watched explained how the extra steps are meant to convey certain abstract ideas about mathematics in general, my first response was "Well, isn't that obvious? Does it really need to be stated?" I'm guessing that the reason this system is implemented is because to most people it's not obvious at first.

Also the video I watched said that common core is a temporary part of the overall education. Once the students understand it, they move on to the traditional methods. This might just be for the school system the video represents though.

I'm guessing it's like how beginner essay classes have you write off of godawful templates at first so that you understand the basic structure of prose before moving on to actually attempting to improve your writing ability

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>>51198296

>>51185905
>It's the new multi-discipline approach to education in the US. Teachers are gently encouraged to shove unrelated content into lessons, like teaching kids about geography or history during math class.
That's actually kind of clever, at least in theory. That way you're sort of passively picking up stuff while doing something else. It's a denser form of learning.

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>>51198546

>>51198237
Left-libertarianism doesn't actually exist. It's a canard to convince people that freedom ends at your wallet. It's unethical to tell you you don't own your body when it comes to drugs or abortion, but it's perfectly ethical to tell you that 15% of all of your labor (which is you acting with your body) is now the property of the government. Libertarianism must necessarily encompass economic freedom or else it is simply authoritarianism with provisions. All Leftists are authoritarians, period.

>>51198514
>Something working "fine" doesn't mean you should never change, we should strive for excellence, no?
The thing is that our change from old math to new math/common core wasn't a sudden turn, it's the same path we've been on for the past few decades. Early 2000's/1990's math education is SHIT compared to the decades before it, and common core is just a continuation of the same trends and ideals.

Excellent and perfection is all well and good, but that's not the goal of this stuff. It's pet projects by politicians on both sides of the aisle who want to change stuff the way they think it should be done.

>>51198546
I often do this mentally although no one taught it to me, it's really a handy way to think about subtraction if you don't have a pen on hand for traditional subtraction.

>>51198553
Or you fail to pick up both.
Or you compensate one subject with the other and never pick the former

>>51198556
>docking points for order in a non-ordered operation

Autism at its finest.

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>>51198559
Fuck off ancap, you're next on the rope right after the commies and the hippies.

>>51198466

Why not just teach the students basic algebra, though? At the very least, that seems like the best possible method of explaining this shit to the kids who inevitably ask, "Why do we need to fill out a tape diagram if we already know how to subtract 190 from 230?"

They've already been taught about fractions, which means that they should have some familiarity with ratios, and they clearly have a grasp of arithmetic, so why not just dive into some entry-level algebra, instead of feeding them this bullshit that serves no mathematical purpose?

>>51198556

The teacher being a moron does not invalidate the concept.

>>51198556
This isn't a problem with the common core, it's just bad grading. If you don't believe fallible teachers exist, I have some bad news for you.

I didn't grow up in the best area, and my fourth grade teacher literally could not remember greater-than-less-than, my sixth grade teacher incorrectly graded a test once -- said my answer of 25% for 1:3 odds was wrong. Don't worry, I appealed and was judged correct.

>>51198601
Stuff me into a gas chamber with them and I'll wedge myself against the door to ensure that nobody escapes. It's worth my life.

>>51198559

Thank you for demonstrating why Libertarians are as reasonable as ISIS and will never be politically relevant to real people.

>>51198581

I'm >>51198537 and I do it too without ever having been taught or even noticing I do it (solving the practice questions on that picture actually made me realize I was doing it). That's what I meant about the concepts being seemingly obvious.

>>51198559
>implying authoritarianism is bad

>>51187509
I don't know if I should be impressed or not. Did you at least get better at maths?

>>51198506
>you still have to ask why kids are being taught to "draw and label a tape diagram" in order to carry out basic subtraction problems.
It could be to help people better visualize and understand shit. I generally did math by reasoning things out* but a lot of other people seemed to just do things by rote, regurgitating the form of what they'd been taught without really understanding it, something that resulted in them being very confused when they had to do word problems and had to think about things rather than just plugging in what they'd learned. I approve of teaching people to think about things in multiple different ways, as one might stick better than others, and they might come out with a broader understanding of the way things work.

*This did result in me being a bit slow at doing things, because while other people were just plugging in what they knew, I had to think about things. Also, it gave me no end of trouble once I got to college-level shit that was advanced enough that I couldn't just logic my way out.

>>51187509
Reminds me of my course, we had to take mandatory literacy/mathematics tests to gauge our levels.

Since it had no standing I just clicked random answers, got a letter saying I should take remedial maths.

But it was voluntary so I said fuck that shit.

btw I'm a teacher

>>51198603

I'm not defending Common Core per se, but what you've outlined there is a resource problem. If you had a class of 20 engaged kids and a teacher who understood math up to an undergraduate level, that kind of discussion would be the approach to take, The problem is, you have to design a syllabus that will work in the dream environment and a class of 40 with 3 'mainstreamed' retards, 5 kids being abused or molested at home, and a teacher who's math knowledge is entirely and totally focused on how many more days in the job she needs to have a pension income that will support her in retirement. In that scenario, anything you don't do with the defined curriculum, will not be done.

That's why these standards are always a mess. Because they're trying to do in a defined process what should be done at the judgement of the teacher. Unfortunately, without wholesale education reform that would be torpedoed by the right for being too expensive and the left for being racist, you're not going to get the kind of environment where teachers will be enabled to teach.

The fundamental thing Common Core is trying to teach is problem solving. Every section boils down to: here's a bunch of different ways to solve this (math) problem. People don't like it because it's new and different. Teachers don't always understand it.

My kids' teachers understand it just fine, and there's none of this bullshit penalizing shown above. I love that they're not just rote memorizing, but learning real problem solving skills. I'm very happy with Common Core.

>>51198721
"new and different" isn't necessarily good.
"different perspectives" isn't necessarily good.

I hope your kids forget this pseudo-mathematical tripe by the time they hit college.

>>51198608
When my brother was in middle school, there was a question on his biology test about the most venomous animal or some such thing (this was a long time ago, so my memory of it is a bit fuzzy). He had apparently been taught something in class, but had read in a recent scientific magazine that something else had been shown to be the most venomous animal.

So he put down the animal from the magazine and got counted wrong, of course. That's to be expected. But he brought in the magazine to show her, and she refused to change her marking because she said that he knew that it wasn't the answer she wanted.

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>>51186140
why do we do such things to our fellow men

>>51198718
In elementary school, we always had to go sooooo slooooow because half the kids didn't understand the simple concepts of what we were doing. So I'd tune out and quit paying attention. Meanwhile, shit like multiplication tables gave me a lot of trouble because I'm bad at memorizing shit that doesn't mean anything to me. It's just numbers making other numbers.

One day, we're going to have adaptive AI individually teaching each person at the rate they need to be taught, and focusing on the areas that need to be focused on. Those people are going to end up being a fuckload smarter than we are.

>>51187906
Bitch if you wanted to make money you'd take up a trade.

>>51198865
This. You choose STEM because the jobs after are interesting, not much for the pay.

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>>51198620
>As reasonable as ISIS
The mercenaries you paid to destabilize Syria for Qatar and Israel? I suppose that like them, my motivation is economic, but unlike them, I don't work for Hillary Clinton. As such, I have a future.

>>51198861

That's exactly it though. Ideally you'd have small capped classes, sorted by ability and parent engagement. The problem is that a) this would cost a fortune, and b) socioeconomics being what it is, it would produce outcomes that liberals would call racist.

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>>51198983

>>51198718

>In that scenario, anything you don't do with the defined curriculum, will not be done

I get that, but if the standard curriculum is designed to teach kids algebra by the time they're 10, then there ought to be no problem, that's my point. There's always going to be kids who can't keep up, but it's just a case of raising the standard for the rest - they'll be able to handle it if there's the written materials to support it.

Out of a class of 40 you may well have half a dozen for whom any expectation of meeting the minimum is too much, but you're also going to have half a dozen who have disengaged because the basic stuff the class is doing just doesn't challenge them at all. I've been that kid, so I know it happens, and the simple solution is to just ask more of them.

What I think you've correctly identified as the problem is oversized classes and an overall failure to properly stream the kids according to relative ability. The falling standards are an administrative issue, not an educational one, and modifying the curriculum to have a lower expectation is the exact wrong step - I think that's why so many people have an issue with common core.

School systems actually get huge amounts of funding, but instead of using that budget to hire one or two extra teachers per age group and paying them properly, or putting more time and effort into their gifted and remedial programs respectively, they inevitably use the money on hugely expensive renovations, new computers and sporting equipment - stuff that has an immediate, tangible result and can easily be shown to the parents of prospective new students.

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>>51199015
>yourserious

>>51198861

>One day, we're going to have adaptive AI individually teaching each person at the rate they need to be taught, and focusing on the areas that need to be focused on

This may seem like a great idea, but half the point of having a teacher in the classroom is to demonstrate standards of adult human behaviour - they are a role model and substitute parent, and actually serve that purpose for most of the kids' weekday hours.

Once you replace them with teacherbots, you've abandoned an entire generation to autism. Not even the meme kind, but an actual impairment in understanding normal adult social behaviour.

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>>51199015
It's not a controversial opinion, it's fact. Back in 2015, Obama spoke quite openly of funding ISIL fighters in Iraq. It is common knowledge that the CIA has funded and armed them as well, and that has reflected on Syria. The deposing of Assad is just another war for oil--the Qataris, with Saudi and Israeli consensus, want to build an oil pipeline through Southern Syria to Turkey, and have paid your masters quite handsomely for the privilege.

ISIS is a CIA asset to justify air strikes which "accidentally" hit government forces to speed the FSA's advance.

A shame that ten years of plotting has been laid low by some coal miners in Pennsylvania and a reality TV show host. How embarrassing for you! Those evil Russians might just succeed in ruining your Kosher plans.

>>51199038

I think we fundamentally agree with each other, actually. As I said, it looks to me like Common Core is an attempt to find a policy based work around for problems with people, institutions, and funding. I increasingly don't think you can solve those sorts of problems with policy.

This may just be me growing more conservative, but I think good people can make bad policy work; good policy is not enough to get good outcomes out of bad people.

>>51199123

FSA =/= ISIS. Yes, ISIS was spawned from the FSA, but they're not analogous, and although there may be widespread suspicions of CIA involvement with ISIS, there is no proven link.

The US government did collaborate with Turkey to fund and arm the FSA, and ISIS did form as a splinter group of the FSA, but there's literally zero evidence that "ISIS is a CIA asset". In fact, ISIS has done nothing but delay and disrupt American interests in Syria - if it weren't for them, the FSA would have easily rolled over the Syrian military and American air strikes would never have been needed.

I'd also love to see your sources on this supposed "Saudi and Israeli consensus", because the very idea of such a thing is kind of comical to me.

Not everything that the US does in the ME is a Jewish plot, especially when what they're doing directly benefits OPEC (such as in the case of the Syrian civil war), since most of the OPEC nations are openly hostile towards Israel's very existence.

>>51198603
Because American education didn't teach algebra until junior high school and a bunch of kids failed that "basic" algebra because they didn't learn the fundamentals in elementary school. Which this teaches. It seems totally foreign for most people who grew up in the old system and makes sense because they can't possibly explain how they learned it.

>>51199250
EVERYTHING is a Jewish plot, anon.
Nazi Germany was a Jewish plot.
Hitler was a golemn.
Judaism is the religion of "Just as planned"

>>51199148
I think that's just being realistic.

>>51198323
From what I get the task is asking the student to increase the lower number to the nearest "friendly" number which they are defining as the nearest number divisible by 10/100/1000/etc..

The problem with the worksheet is that it is using 3 digit numbers divisible by 10.

443 - 287 shifted to 356 - 300 and then using that to get the result of 156 by only subtracting only the hundreds digit is how the shifting is supposed to work.

I half expect that the task in the curriculum was "subtracting 3 digit numbers using a tape diagram" and the worksheet designer got lazy and just added 0s to a "subtracting 2 digit numbers using a tape diagram" exercise.

>>51198803
>she refused to change her marking because she said that he knew that it wasn't the answer she wanted.

Which might be the actual problem. American students have been and are being taught to answer what the test wants the answer to be rather than what is the correct answer. Teaching to the test has been a very serious problem for the past few decades.

>>51198861
>Meanwhile, shit like multiplication tables gave me a lot of trouble because I'm bad at memorizing shit that doesn't mean anything to me. It's just numbers making other numbers.

Different people can comprehend different things at different speeds. I sucked at rote memorizing the multiplication tables as well, but once someone taught me a simplified meaning of multiplication (X groups of Y objects which you add together) I was able to progress further and faster with multiplication than those who rotely memorized the 1x1 to 12x12 multiplication tables once we got beyond multiples of 12.

Common core is intended to teach multiple ways of finding the answer to the problems. >>51198556 actually shows this but poor worksheet design seriously hinders things.

>>51199273
And it teaches them in the most ass retarded way possible.

If you want to teach them algebra, teach them algebra with variables and equations. Kids are smart enough to deal with it.

>>51199280
>but once someone taught me a simplified meaning of multiplication (X groups of Y objects which you add together)
But, anon, that is literally THE meaning of multiplication, not a simplified one. It's iterative addition.

>>51199148

Yes, I think we do agree. I guess where we differ is that I think if the policy was designed to take pressure off teachers, pay them right, and expect more of the kids, then all parties involved would rise to meet the new standards.

I don't think that's expecting good outcomes out of bad people, because most people aren't bad - in this case they're just under too much pressure.

>>51186007
My favorite was an anon on this board who claimed that a D100 had a 70% chance of rolling lower than 50.

>>51199275

Oh yes, I forgot, pardon my mistake.

Yahweh confirmed for Tzeentch?

>>51199316
Adonai*

>>51199306
Ahah what?

>>51198803

This seems especially silly because there's really no way to know what the "most venomous animal" is. I mean, are we going by kill count, or minimum amount of venom required to kill a human, or maximum number of other species vulnerable to the venom? Are we going with the scientific standard of median lethal dose, even though that is specific to the animal being poisoned and usually differs between target species?

It's a really silly question.

>>51199327

"CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED"

- Obadiah 11: 4, NIV

>>51199363
It might have been a bit more straightforward than I recall. The main reason I put in that note about my memory being fuzzy is that it does seem a bit silly in retrospect. But I don't know, maybe it is as silly as I remember.

>>51186100

That's an incredibly poorly framed question, especially for someone inclined towards math. It lacks even the *vaguest* pretense of specificity, which is... kind of the whole point.

>>51199078

Autism isn't something learned. I think you do mean the meme kind, not the actual mental condition.

I mean, I have actual medically diagnosed Autism. I fully understand accepted adult behaviour. Or at least as much as anyone posting on /tg/ can.

>>51185182
For Pathfinder/3rd, I find more important than any math skill is just being interested enough to put the time in. Calclulating your standard 'X+Y+Z=weapon ToHit" once then keeping track of a few conditional modifiers is pretty easy. The only problem that arises is when players are too lazy or disinterested to put in the effort to track them all.

>>51199078
I agree strongly with your first paragraph, which makes it incredibly painful for me to read your second. I can't help but ridicule such an uninformed and damaging representation of what you seem to mistakenly think autism is.

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>>51186966
>filename

>>51199123
>it's common knowledge
It's common knowledge that this is a bullshit phrase to wiggle out of providing proof.

>>51198572
Can you give samples of things that common core does wrong? The worst I've seen is the interpretation of x/y z, and that's just shitty way to write shit no matter what are rules governing "your math", not an actual problem unless some incompetent moron of a teacher makes a deal out of it, and it would be one in that case no matter what correct way is to interpret that under your rules.

Math doesn't leave much of anything to interpritation, contrary to popular belief. If it does the person leading the conversation is shit at it.

>>51200094
>>51200171

>Autism isn't something learned
>uninformed and damaging representation

[citation needed]

As far as I'm aware, medical science is far from excluding any environmental factors as potential causes of or contributors to autism cases, with the exception of childhood vaccinations.

Given that ASDs are more likely to occur in children whose parents have similar behavioural symptoms but not to the extent that they would be diagnosed, as well as the fact that mild forms like Asperger's appear to be inheritable despite being genetically diverse conditions, it seems likely that upbringing is potentially quite a significant factor in (at least mild) cases of autism.

If you also take into account how successful behavioural therapy can be at basically nullifying the expression of symptoms, I don't see how it's unreasonable to predict a stark increase in cases as a result of limiting a child's human contact to only evenings and weekends.

>>51186578
>>51189366
As a physics student I will readily admit that I do this on purpose to save precious workspace when I'm solving problems, but I disagree entirely with >>51191077 on the matter because if somebody were to take the time to type something out they would never ever mean such. That's what different lines are for. Also it's perfectly acceptable to use any symbol you like (except, obviously, a numeral) to represent a variable. You can draw a box, you can write Shakespeare, you can use e or π but obviously those are trouble themselves and no one in their right mind would, but the possibility still exists.

>>51200430
>limiting a child's contact to only evenings and weekends
I interpreted teaching children individually to mean giving each child tailored and individual attention in a group classroom setting, which I think is a little more reasonable that the idea that lone chuldren would be shut away with the AI in question all day. I suppose you could also have meant that children aren't really human, but I'll let you self-examine on the potential validity and humour of that statement.

I also think you are not giving enough credit to what an adaptive AI could be capable of. Already there are AI that are more socially outgoing and read more as human than a lot of actual people, school aged children included.

>>51187839
true, some kids don't show up at the class at all

>>51188575
Seconding the GURPS thing. It's not that you need to have college level math skills, it's just that several of the splats (like spaceships, yuck) are all to happy to have literal 1:1 hard science for their advanced rules. Either handwave them or learn the math behind newtonian space travel.

>>51187148
Thats fine in a game, but if you're trying to teach them math you actually have to teach it to them.

Letting them get by without knowing it is just going to det them up for failure when they really need to know it at a later and probably more critical time.

>>51185182
Simple maths like:
Basic addition and subtraction.
Is this number bigger or smaller than the number I need to succeed?
Some basic division for loot sharing/ damage resistances.
Basic multiplication for "I eat 3 pounds of food a day, how much do I need to buy for a 17-day trip?"

It is very much a hobby for all ages, so the bar for entry could be met by a 5 year old 90% of the time.