/mtg/ modern general

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>>51136236
Daily plug that if you wanna meme kiln fiend/ keep playing Probe, Pauper is a thing.

Is modern dead?

>>51136347
Modern is looking better than ever

>>51136344
No one wants to play delver, the delvering

>>51136344
pauper really isn't a thing except on MTGO

>>51136396
Cause only retards spend actual money on digital fucking cards. Yeah I'm talking to you hearthstone cucks

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all is dust > oblivion stone

Anyone still running Kiki chord?

>>51136236
Whats the cheapest deck i can get with chinamen fakes that is not infect?

>>51136236
>probe
>fun and interesting
fuck off. essential 4 of in almost any deck. best ban I've ever seen wizards do.

I literally stopped playing modern because of probe. it kills so many fun decks. I went back to mtg after a year of not playing, did a random modern tournament, got probed every game, didn't come back. wizards did it right, but too late for me.

>>51136522
Then why are you still here? Fuck off shithead

>>51136370
Not him, but I do. Delver is magic at it's purest and finest

>>51136504
There's a guy at my LGS who still plays it. It's pretty boring.

>>51136522
>probe in every deck
Are you retarded or just memeing?

>>51136573
How is it boring? I don't understand, I have always found it really fun. Oh and what happened to abandon coco

>>51136562
>Swinging with undercosted beaters is Magic at its purest and finest
Fuck. This is what R&D actually believes.

>>51136548
>wahh don't invade my safe space!
don't you have a deck to net?

sorry, you're going to have to learn to play control without seeing your opponents hand for FREE every game.

>>51136587
if you have any blue control spells in your modern deck and you don't have probe main or sided, you're just bad.

Have you guys played with new Tamiyo yet?
I was playing bant tallowisp for some laughs and that entire deck aside, I ran one Tamiyo. She's quite powerful.
Her +1 fucks with combat on both players turns or just nets you incredible card advantage. Essentially protecting herself kinda

-2 should be obvious why it can be useful and the ultimate is deck dependent but certainly isn't weak although I never used it

Do you think a bant she'll could benefit from their use? I don't play bant usually but could spirits jam one or two? Is spirits a meme deck? I've got goyfs if needed

>>51136656
>Esper control or American control
>running probe
Wow

>>51136612
I meant boring to sit across.
I've always found decks that do nothing but spam creatures to be really boring.

>>51136236
Moderns gonna be the next format to fade away.
Commander, Legacy and Standard is all we need in 2017.

>>51136682
if you aren't siding them, you're retarded. people main in esper all of the time. they annihilate combo.

>>51136657
i havnt seen a bant deck with playing that wanted her, boggles was in no need of it, and thats the only bant deck i know of

>>51136625
It is. You have a clock so games don't go too long . You aren't hyper aggro. You play a slew of spells and actually acknowledge your opponent is playing with you.
I think it's much better than playing sorceries with bodies slapped onto them.

>>51136682
But probe was essential in both of those...

>>51136625
>I don't know what delver is all about
You are a retard
Even more retard that the guy that is complaining about probe and thinks we don't realize he is trolling

>>51136698
Show me literally 1 top 8 list that does

>>51136697
Funnily enough my legs is slowly converting to legacy and standard.

It's times like these that I am glad I chose Boros burn as my first modern deck. It's very unlikely that any part of my deck gets banned.

>>51136657
a tempo/aggro deck like Bant Spirits doesn't want to tap out on turn 4 just to potentially draw cards/freeze things

maybe you could brew some Bant midrange around her

>>51136785
>Autist that cannot spot trolling

>>51136236

>Ruins any deck that needs to play mindgames.
>Lets "hurr durr drop all my pumps spells no worries about getting blown out turn 2 kill" kiddies exist.
>Fun

The card is just too free and literally removes a part of the game, playing around unknown cards.
One of the best bans they've done in a long time.

>>51136785
googling takes 5 seconds to show you it's been all over top 8 for years. it's the 15th most used card in modern, that's how OP it is. you're fucking retarded and ignorant.

>>51136845
not at all. it's the 15th most used card in modern.

are you guys seriously this upset you can't see hands for free anymore? fuck off. time to learn to play for real! oh no!

>>51136846
Is good to know shitters like you don't play legacy

>>51136914

I actually prefer legacy, I just think it doesn't need to be in modern.

>>51136920
>average Belcher player

>>51136914
In Legacy you are allowed to have powerful cards because you can fight them off with other powerful cards. Modern simply doesnt have the answers to things like Legacy does.

>>51136506
Jund

Go figure right? The fucking deck that is 99% Rares is the cheapest maximizing the best quality counterfeits available.

Actually now that I think about it, because the deck is playing Kalitas, New Liliana, and Grim Flayer, that's really only true for Jund from a year ago.

Im not upset with the bans im more upset that theres no unbans. Wizards loves creatures so unban Stoneforge so a white aggro deck can emerge as viable. Also give us Preordain back now that Probe is gone and unban Punishing Fire and Chrome Mox

>>51137034
>Kalitas, New Lili, and Flayer
>wahhh i literally am a huge poorfag who cant afford $150 in cards

>>51136993
>In legacy when they probe T2 if you don't have FoW or counterspell you die to storm

>In modern UF they probe t3 and you don't have bolt or path you die to infect

Wew lad

>>51137045
I was with you up until punishing fire

>>51137071
>ignoring massive format differences
Legacy has way more answers to combo decks and decks trying to do broken things like Infect. Modern Infect proved too resilent for decks to beat even if they were playing a ton of removal. Probe just made it even easier since they can make sure you dont have it and set up a plan for if you do have it.

>>51137132
T. Ad nauseam player

Probe being the Top 15th card probably has more to do with the fact that it's used in Infect and Death's Shadow and a LOT of people play those decks. The sites collating popularity show lots of Infect and Death's Shadow, which combined account for 18% of Top 8 standings.

If you were to consider how often Probe is a part of all the T1 and T2 decks it's probably much smaller - it's representation is probably only 2/20 decks.

Just like Ghost Quarter showing up fucking 25% in the Top 8 decks even though it's only played in 2-3 decks but those decks are played a lot.

>>51136981

Favouite Decks are probably Mentor Miracles and anything with Leovald.

You sound silly.

>>51137132
Infect is actually really easy to beat if you have a ton of removal. But people aren't playing grixis control or anything with tons of removal, they're playing other uninteractive shit. Infect is just the fastest uninteractive deck.

>>51137178
nobody plays ad nauseam because of probe. maybe that will change now. that's been the entire problem with probe, and why it's banned. kills all of the fun decks.

>>51137178
Actually I play Burn and my infect matchup was pretty good. Those Eidolons man.

>>51137190
>it's used so much because of these popular decks!
okay? nice counter-argument.

the first option that comes up on google for me is probe being in the T1 deck in 2014 modern. idk what you're smoking. admit your shit is OP and learn to play for real. actually, you're forced to.

>>51137199
Ad Nauseam's mana base is very distinctive, a good infect player will know you have no interaction most of the time anyway. Infect seeing less play will make Ad Naus better, but the match up itself won't change.

>>51137045

If stoneforge goes in, Batterskull will be going out with it.

But swords might be strong enough still with SFM.

>>51137268
I'd like to see how good Abzan is with Push before I pass judgement on SFM

>>51137241
I wasn't making any judgements on the card I was just pointing out why it's so commonly played due to how popularity statistics are generated.

But thanks for responding like a faggot anyways.

>>51137265
Being on the draw vs AN was so much better for infect than being on the play because you knew from the start the coast was clear

>>51137045
I agree with unbans but maybe not those cards. Stoneforge would be alright, Mox seems pretty weak though and I can't imagine what would run it

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Would a card like this help to make storm viable in modern again?

>>51137378
Go away

>>51136236
Its not kiln fiends that got it banned its infect you fucking tard. It replaces itself, gives you all the information you need, and gives you one mana for your become immense without slowing down your turn. If you couldnt pay life it would have been fine but you can keep full mana and know if you can just cut right through your opponents hand with your unstoppable pumpboy.

>>51137398
Hide and ignore, hes hunting for (You)s

>>51136236
They did it, they transformed modern into Frontier

>>51137424
>infect needs a nerf
>ban probe
Makes no sense, literally any other card would make more sense

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>Jund
>Ban blood braid elf and drs, obviously broken cards
>Never ban anything since
It's fucking oppressive desu, literally the fucking fun police

>>51137694
Infect wants hand information and to have fuel for delve. In infect this card is a free cantrip, hand information, and free mana. The way it was they could pay 2 and you couldnt afford to counter because they probably have pumps. Itndoesnt nerf kiln fiend because that deck can afford to play peek while infect might lose if they peek before swinging so they would likely wait one more turn which is exactly the kind of nerfing wotc wants to do

>>51137719
>printed a hard counter
Adapt to the new meta and git good.

Did anyone else buy their Grave Thug's prebanning in case Wizards was going to be retarded and not ban Cathartic Reuinion.
At least getting Narcomebas back with Thug will be cool.

>>51137784
Just ban become inmense

>>51137809
What's the hard counter to jund?

>>51137921
Or ban probe, it sees play in more decks and it's a bigger problem, and banning probe nerfs BI

>>51137921
Its a card that destroys design spave by itself because it soaks it all up. With this card gone maybe they can get off their asses and finally print an instant speed scry 5

>>51137034
New liliana is line a 2 of at most, kalitas too. Jund should not play Grim Flayer

>>51137921
Banning become immense could ruin the deck, banning probe slows the deck down a turn. They dont want to kill modern just slow it down.
>>51137940
push

>>51137941
>it sees play in more decks
Exactly why it should not be banned

>>51137995
Banning probe has a bigger impact on infect than become immense.

Ban Inkmoth nexus desu, nerf the shit out of infection and affinity and we can finally have peace.

>>51138000
The point of the bans wasn't to reduce infect's power, it was about the fact that all these hyper aggressive decks got free information and a free redraw. It made those decks absurdly safe and consistent. That was the problem, not BI. In taking out probe you hurt these all in decks without reducing their power. You're putting more risk into "high risk, high reward" decks

>>51138000

It's a degenerate card. And it's free.

They should've gone whole hog and banned Phyrexian Mana all together, that would been hilarious.

>>51137268
A turn 3 4/4 vigilance lifelink is fine in a format with a turn 2 4/4 Thoughtseize

>>51138010
I know, but it still has the same kill potential, if you want to see their hand youre gunna have to lose some tempo and mana now. Just because there is green in the deck doesnt mean you should he able to autopilot to a win.

>>51138078
That's the point. The deck stays fundamentally the same but it becomes riskier to play. It was a great banning actually

Unban splinter twin pls

>>51138069

I don't disagree, but I doubt wizards will let them exist in modern together.

Thought-Knot is a special breed of cancer that'd I'd rather forget.

>>51138099

Pretty much perfect, yeah.

You can still go full retard and throw 3 pumps on one guy, but you risk 2/3/4-for-1s.

>>51137995
>banning probe slows the deck down a turn
if infect has no idea how much removal the opponent is holding one turn why would they suddenly be safe next turn?
>>51138044
I just want a tron ban desu. If I'm building a deck and it has problems with infect or dredge I can bring in more cards that are good against those decks, both main and sideboard. Comparatively if your tron match up sucks there's little you can do without changing the core of your deck.

>>51137196
They have 12 infect creatures and protection. It takes at least 10 instant speed burn spells to fend off Infect with real consistency.

>>51138099
Thays what i was trying to tell >>51137694

>tfw no probe for my esper control list
How will I ever see my opponents hand and draw a free card ;_;

Why are shitposters allowed to exist if they're not being at least somewhat funny

UNBAN PREORDAIN
UNBAN BALEFUL STRIX

>>51138136
Play peek you fucking noob

>>51138154
They'll never print baleful strix in standard

>>51138069
Your turn 3 needs one card in hand while turn for seer requires 3. Bad comparison.

>>51138154
Its never been printed in standard, its not banned in modern because it never was part of the format.

>>51138154
Strix and Shardless would be sweet

>>51138182
Return to alara anon

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>>51138166
>>51138176
can they just print it in MMA or does it not work like that

>>51138206
Not at all

>>51138206
No. Only cards printed in standard from 8th edition onwards are modern legal. MMA is just a compilation of modern legal cards, even if they put something non-modern legal in there it wouldn't become modern legal. That's how the rules work currently at least.

>>51138206
No, legality is determined by standard printings. MM does nothing to legality

>>51138205
yes pls
too bad they'll probably throw in phyrexians

>>51138057
Honestly it's not a terrible idea.

>>51138231
And what's stopping them from making cards shoehorned into MM legal?

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>>51138221
>>51138231
>>51138242
well fuck

all my dreams are dead, scattered to the winds

>>51138263
Mostly that it's a limited print set and the price of cards put in it would skyrocket. But besides from that, all the rules are completely arbitrary.

>>51136236
Wow it's about time. Anyone who disagrees with this ban is the reason mtg isn't fun.

>>51138263
The words you responded to but refused to read/accept.

>>51138321
>>51138263 and >>51138206 are not the same person fyi.

>>51138263

From the mouth of MaRo himself, It's apparently not worth the confusion of saying "8th forward, oh and these random cards just because we said so" as opposed to just "8th forward".

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>>51138344
So they could make Conspiracy Modern-legal?

>>51138344
This made sense before they started printing standard legal planeswalker decks and welcome decks. You can put cards into standard with supplementary products but not modern.

>>51138344
I think part of it too is worrying about the format becoming Legacy 2.0
I don't think the confusion would be a thing, they could just say "All cards originally printed or reprinted after 8th edition"
I think the big card they see as a problem is Flusterstorm, which could be remedied with a ban

>>51138332
Follow the quote chain up, he looked at the definition of what defines modern and asked why they cant add modern masters. Its because the format isnt everything from 8th edition and everything that we didnt ban from modern masters.

>>51138375
Nope, its a special limited product that want in standard.
>>51138399
Its still part of standard, thus part of modern. Standard is easier to redefine than modern.

>>51138344

He actually answered this too, they don't have the resources to test a suplimentary set for modern. And Legacy/Vintage doesn't need to be tested for so that wastes no resources.

these aren't my thoughts by the way, just passing it along.

>>51138375
See: >>51138444

>>51138444
Except he admitted at the Kaladesh questions session that they really don't test for modern which is why eldrazi winter happened so I see no problem with letting supplementary materials in. All it would do is improve the format

>>51138263
Modern only cares about normal expansions. Not limited run products. If it did, true name nemesis would be legal in modern, and flusterstorm, and all the cards from conspiracy. And Planechase. And all the EMA cards for that matter. Show and Tell in modern boys.

>>51138469

I don't disagree, I even think he just underestimates player's intelligence sometimes.

But I can see from a designer perspective why he might want to make sure even the most stupid people can grasp stuff easily, so they keep it simple.

>>51138469
Thats a half truth, the future future league does play modern, but obviously they arent that good at deckbuilding.

>>51138440
>Standard is easier to redefine than modern.
Not really. The only difference between duel decks and planeswalker decks is that planeswalker decks say 'standard legal cards' on the box. It's equally as easy, and confusing for that matter, to do the same for modern.

>>51138507
>But I can see from a designer perspective why he might want to make sure even the most stupid people can grasp stuff easily, so they keep it simple.
Vintage has a restricted list, something that no other format has, and Modern still isn't really beginner friendly so it seems pretty infantalizing for them to say that players can't handle something like that

>>51138565
Vintage and Legacy is an oldboys format, they can do any shit there.

But I agree modern should get the same respect. I understand catering for idiots in standard though somewhat, they are a company and they need new players.

>>51138565
Most vintage players are over 30

>>51138636
Yeah I don't really care what they do with standard, that's their main cash cow so let them do with it what they please
I just hate that they're helicopter parenting modern like they still care about it. It's not on the pro tour, they hardly test for it, let us have some fucking good cards to play around with. None of the eternal exclusive cards break modern in any way, save maybe flusterstorm, but they're still acting like it needs to stay at standard's power level
The last time any standard cards shook up modern was when there was a fucking workshops deck running rampant in the format and even then they didn't care enough to emergency ban it for the sake of the format.
Fuck you wizards, I want shardless

>>51138399
Are the cards in the Planeswalker decks legal outside the deck or must they be played together?

>>51138817
Legal on their own

>>51138824
Fuck me. If they ever print anything good those cards will skyrocket.

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>>51138858
They're actually really bad even for standard. Here's one of the exclusives to the Chandra deck.

>>51138858
Wizards is bad at printing average power level cards, see siege rhino, coco, snuggle copter, but they can print garbage bulk like a well oiled machine

>>51138901
Lash is fun in Gearhulk decks
but yeah in general it's pretty bad

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Haven't played Modern in quite a bit, was always a kiki chord faggot. Did they print anything I should be adding or aware of?

>>51138858
>>51138901

The only good card that's been printed in those Planeswalker decks is the new Tezzeret.

>>51138955
maybe play around with Eldritch Evolution? That's basically it for new Kiki-Chord cards but it seems like just Chord is still the preferred way

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So elegant. So perfect. So strong.

>>51139015
I'm kind of interested in cataclysmic gear hulk, seems like it could be a decent board clear or something if you fall behind, and I saw evolution, thought it was kind of a different deck style, doesn't really fit unless I revamp the whole thing

>>51138955
Dredge is a good deck now, making decks that rely on the graveyard much worse.

>>51139058
Well, dredge just got banned, and kiki chord doesn't 100% rely on the graveyard

>>51139058

Dredge is RIP, Grave-troll is banned.

>>51139046

*A Single tear falls from my eye*

>>51139096
I honestly don't think the deck is dead.

>>51139352
It's probably going to stick around but it's not going to be tier 1 again, unless they unban dread return

>Gitaxian Probe
>Golgari Grave-Troll

Nice bans. Probe was especially overdue.
The format should slow down a nice chunk.

I'm personally excited to start brewing again :)

fuck Jund

fuck Chalice

>>51139424
that's a pretty specific combination

>>51139444

does anyone really like getting matched up with jund or chalice of the void?

>>51139424
I'm honestly really surprised Chalice hasn't eaten a ban
It just feels like such a ban worthy card

>>51139481
Jund is fine. There are less enjoyable decks to play against. I don't think anything I play really gets beat hard by chalice.

>>51138955
>>51139015
>>51139057

Kiki-Chord does play Eldritch Evolution from time to time.

>>51139481

I laugh at Chalice of the Void when I play Cavern of Souls.

>>51139481

I don't really particularly care about Chalice. Shattering Spree will take care of it even if it's set to 1 if i replicate the spell.

>>51139611
>>51139596
>>51139506
>>51139500
>>51139481
Why do people care about chalice now? Does it even see play?

>>51139644
Yeah in a few decks
I just hate it cuz I play infect

I'm curious as to why trinisphere doesn't see any play though, feels like it'd be pretty good against a lot of decks

>>51139644
Shuts down decks that play an overabundance of 1 mana spells.

>>51139644
In eldrazi tron I guess, and some sun and moon lists. It's still pretty weak in modern, idk what those guys are talking about.
>>51139671
Can't get it out fast enough like in vintage.

>>51139644

Eh people were complaining about it during Eldrazi Winter when some of them would put Chalice on 0 and 1 against most decks. Honestly the card isn't that oppressive, maybe if you're Affinity you'll get hosed pretty hard but that's what you get for playing that deck.

>>51139700
Moon also costs 3, 2 and R. Sure moon is more powerful but trinisphere would slow down a lot of games
Mainly though of it for the RW Nahiri prison deck

>>51139671

It's not fast enough to get it out early in Modern due to a lack of fast mana. You couldn't even ritual into it reliably in Modern and if you're playing a ritual based deck the last thing you want is Trinisphere against you because you'll probably just hose yourself.

If 8 post/12post was still a deck you would see it probably coming in turn 2 sometimes. But otherwise it's not a card you want to look to cast on turn 3 in most cases.

>>51137940

Anything that topdecks harder. Tron is a well established anti jund, bant eldrazi is good too.

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>infect
>dredge
>"""""""""""""""""""combo"""""""""""""""'""'''''''
So like 70% of the meta is aggro? Why don't they just ban serum visions and path and get it over with and become the cancer they want?

>>51137907
>ban cathartic reunion

That's stupid shit. That's like banning Sleight of Hand to try and stop Ad Nausem.

Don't ban the cards that enable dredge, ban dredge. The mechanic is the problem, not discard 2 draw 3.

>>51140151
>the mechanic is the problem
Really? Seemed fine until they printed more help for it, they clearly don't even try fucking playing modern before they release cards
See: Eldrazi and Dredge

>>51140172
>Dredge is a fine mechanic
When did you start playing Magic?

>>51140075
As a Jund player. Burn and Affinity can also be a real bitch to play against, but not as bad as tron.

>>51140204
Dredge was literally not even a deck until recently, you can't even tell me that it's impossible to just not print cards like amalgam and reunion. You're such a fucking faggot, go suck maros cock. "Muh dredge is litrally FUGGING Hitler!!!!! DX" To be completely honest with you if they could just play test the fucking cards which will obviously go into dredge before releasing them they would not have to ban troll again, but of course they're fucking retarded. If they actually gave a shit they'd just fucking nerf affinity and burn like they should have 3 years ago, but instead they continue to hound after the dredge boogeyman.

>>51140288
Stay mad dredgetard

>>51140288
Here's a hint
>they test for standard and not much else

>>51140288
>you can't even tell me that it's impossible to just not print cards like amalgam and reunion.

It's possible, but those cards are bad. the only thing whoch makes them even remotely playable is a busted mechanic they happen to synergize with.

>>51140288
Dredge without payoff cards is literally not a deck, it's just milling yourself for no reason. There are numerous ways to get graveyard cards into the graveyard. Why would you stop printing graveyard based strategy just to preserve dredge with literally nothing to do but self mill and lose.

>>51140315
I play legacy dredge but never touched modern. You're a huge cuck desu, and honestly the mechanic in of itself isn't inherently broken if you just keep the power level of the shit you put in your graveyard down and don't enable putting shit in your graveyard too hard. Any retard could design 2 cards in a week that would make dredge a half decent deck, but not broken, but of course that would never fucking happen because they have no idea what the fuck they're doing.

Has there been any updates from the people testing the new dredge lists?

>>51140369
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that dredge 4 puts less cards in your graveyard than dredge 6. You can see the full analysis once I publish my thesis.

>>51140380
Fuck off faggot

>>51140334
What other deck did amalgam and reunion ever get played in?
>>51140346
Dredge can have payoff cards that are balanced. Dredge vine was okay, not crazy, not absolute shit, but it was okay. They could have eased some cards in to make it a deck, but instead they went full retard and we got what we got

>>51140396
>What other deck did amalgam and reunion ever get played in?

Exactly my point. They suck without dredge because dredge is the problem, not them.

>>51140396
standard decks
also vine IS absolute shit

>>51140396
>What other deck did amalgam and reunion ever get played in?
Standard, aka the thing they mostly test for
Guess what? It's not broken there

>>51140416
Interesting, cause dredge sure ked without them, so clearly they're the problem ;)

>>51140396
>They could have eased some cards in to make it a deck
amalgan is easing in. They already banned the ones that were truly broken with dredge.

>>51140444
So why didn't they just ban amalgam, and start over instead of completely killing the deck?

>>51140486
dredge would be worse without amalgan than without troll

>>51140479
>the ones
You mean dread return? A card some legacy dredge decks don't even play?

>>51140364
>cuck
>desu
Aside from that, you're mad as fuck. Keep on trucking little fella

>>51140524
I should add I don't think dread return and combo dredge, legit combo dredge should actually be in modern

>>51140463
oh but by coincidence it also coincides with Gravetroll getting unbaned in modern, but that can't be related ;)

>>51140519
No, the fact of the matter is for dredge to ever be a deck it needs grave troll. Without troll but with amalgam, you may get say, a 6/10 deck, but you'll never get higher than that as troll is the card that allows dredge to really be a deck. On the other hand, you take out amalgam but keep troll, and you have say a 4/10 deck, that can have its power level reasonably increased to be a competition but not broken. So my point is without troll, dredge cannot be a legitimate deck, it'll always be 2 cards in your gy away from it.

>>51140585
Grave troll was unbanned 2 years ago you retarded cunt, and Dredge was not a thing.

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>wizards will never ban this skilless, overpriced, overpowered, undercosted, unfair, cheap ass, retarded beatstick because muh poor baby collectors
Fuck this card, it's cancer

>>51136914
In Legacy you can actually hide shit with Brainstorm. It's just topdecks in modern.

>>51140767
There's nothing wrong with it. It allows creature light strategies to have a clock. There's a reason midrange/control without green is so durdley

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>>51140857
>mfw cucks announce what they're naming with cabal therapy before I get priority
Laugh every time

>>51140883
>midrange without green
Good one

>>51140902

>therapy resolves
>they name something different

get fucked.

For example

>you have bolt and remand in hand
>therapy naming bolt
>in response cast bolt at face
>okay. therapy resolves, naming remand

oooo

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>>51140767
I agree that it's too expensive, but it's literally just an undercosted beatstick. I'd argue that it's the fairest card in the modern meta and the the GBx decks it goes in are the fairest decks in the meta.

Tonight I played against a modern Brain in the Jar deck. I was able to beat it without much of a problem, but it was pretty interesting. Has anyone seen this deck before?

>>51140960
did it run beck//call? Been trying to brew an Esper Bird Brains myself

>>51140960
Birdbrains?

>>51140929
>implying that's legal

>>51140973
>>51140975
Yeah, it ran Beck//Call and a few other fuse cards.

>>51139046
>no atarkas command
T R A S H
R
A
S
H

>>51141005
Yeah I ran it for a while on xmage, it felt like a true control deck to me
Pretty gimmicky and it got worse without probe but pretty fun

>>51141005
It put up some results on a tournment a month back if I am remembering right. Should get a little boost with the new 'you can cast X mana cost card without paying its cost' cards from Aether Revolt.

>>51140973
>>51141005
I ran beck//call in a strange but surprisingly good combo deck during rtr/theros block. I found catch//release was a much better card by the end, but 3 base CMC instead of 2.

>>51140978
it is. You name on resolution. If they fuck up and name while casting, fuck em.

>>51140978
You won't make friends doing this, but it is legal. Once I tilted this German guy by riffle shuffling his pimped Zoo deck. As we had a discussion about how to 'legally' cut an opponents deck, we called a judge who clarified any way to shuffle is legal.

>>51141153
If you're a prissy princess you can always requests the judge to shuffle your deck rather than your opponent

>>51141153
doing that outside of a meaningful competition would make you a huge asshole.

>>51141153
Sometimes when my opponent goes to cast a spell, I just jerk off and cum right onto their deck. They get SOO mad but it's perfectly legal.

>>51140319
I honestly doubt they even test for standard despite their claims. Otherwise how the fuck did standard turn into such a blazing dumpster fire that they had to ban THREE cards for the first time since original mirrodin?

Is thing in the ice actually any good?

>>51141366

Probe just got banned so not anymore. Also dies to push on both sides.

>>51138955
Selfless Spirit is the shit. Collective brutality is not bad. Blessed Alliance is amazing in the sb.

>that golgari thug price spike
i knew I should've bought these sooner fuck

>>51141365
I think we should be grateful for aggressive bannings that mix up a (supposedly) stale metagame.

I'd rather they carpet bomb a format, which indicates they fucked up and are trying to fix it, than letting it rot they way they have. Maybe they're finally realizing that fucking up in public is preferable than players not walking into stores.

That being said, it's well too late to adopt this policy. People have been lost for a while now, and as much as we would believe otherwise, most players don't sit on the Internet like we do so reaching out to those people and getting them back in the building through this is more or less impossible.

The warning sirens should have went off the moment Hearthstone was announced. That blaring call should have been screaming "PEOPLE HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY LESS REASON TO WALK INTO A STORE THE MOMENT THIS SHIT HITS."

>>51138955
think about playing a rec sage somewhere mainboard.

>>51141365
They didn't need to ban Emrakul or Reflector and probably didn't need to ban Copter. People were just whining their asses off because they don't know how to adapt.

>>51141511
hahaha holy shit
I'm sitting on a set but I didn't think they'd spike before a tournament or something

>>51141511
I've been playing Manaless dredge for years in legacy. The last year I've been able to offload baubles and trolls for almost 20 times what I payed for them. Might do the same with some spare thugs I got somewhere around here

>>51141552
Hearthstone sucks tremendous cock desu and if you think the mtg meta is bad just play 1 ranked match against fucking pirates

>>51141557
Pride mage isn't ebough?

>>51141596
I'm not saying Hearthstone is a good game or not.

I'm just saying it makes everything about playing a card game easier than Magic does whether on paper or online. You can play Hearthstone everywhere you can play Magic and more.

It should have been clear that selling Magic to people would become harder the moment Blizzard enters the platform; not just any company, but Blizzard.

Also, you type like a faggot.

>>51141596
That shit is so fucking cancerous man
Who would have thought the game would be broken by fucking stonetusk boar and Bloodfen raptor

It's honestly not even worth selling your golgari thugs tbqh. If you have them now, there's a reason you have them, and you're not going to get absolutely top dollar, so if you ever want them back you essentially just break even, it's not even worth it

>>51141634
1 mana for 3 mana of cards

>>51141624
Nah hearthstone is literally dying tbqh. The devs have absolutely no fucking idea what they're doing. Mtg will always be good, cause maronactually has some vague idea of what balance is

>>51141664
It's just funny because before the set came out everyone wrote it off
Turns out being able to deal 5 by turn 2 off 1 mana for little risk is good

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>>51140143
who /hatebear/ here

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>>51136236
What cards are you bewing with?

>>51141619
the thing with that is you actually have to activate it, and then it dies, where rec sage is an etb trigger and still leaves you with a 3-mana body to pod off with eldritch evolution (for kiki or resto) or incessantly flicker on an affinity player you hate (with kiki or resto).
i think it's more in-line with your game plan.

>>51138955
Renegade Rallier. Prob take out an e-witness for him, this guy is gonna get degenerate.

Will Rallier get played in Abzan Company? I don't know a ton about the deck but it seems like it'd fit

Desu, Grixis Delver is probably going to shoot to tier 1 now. It's incredibly strong with dredge knocked down and push printed.
It didn't get raped by the probe ban quite like rug did.

>>51142095
What's the MU against Tron?

>>51142121
Pretty good.
Fast clock plus disruption. It could start packing Sea's Claim or Spreading Seas if it really needed to.

>>51142121
Decent, delver can play a more aggressive or more controlling game based on what they're up against

Maybe now is a good time to play Tooth and Nail?
It has an excellent Tron matchup and midrange matchup because it can essentially board into a ponza deck or a big top deck, deck.

It races aggro or just drops bomby lifegain

T&N can race ad nauseum with turn 3 and 4 wins if left unchecked.

Plus it's hella fun

>>51142132
>>51142132
Kinda what I figured
Deck already did well against infect and the MU just got better so yeah I can see Grixis Delver going up to tier 1
Feel like infect is going to be bottom tier 1 now and not one of the big 3 decks running around, maybe even tier 2. It's not like the deck really had a bunch of great top tier free-win matchups, it just fought a lot of the field and was incredibly consistent.
Fish might come back too, just a feeling though. Ad Nauseam will for sure, it's solid against Tron and weaker infect is a great thing. Can deal with Jund post-board and the rest of the top tier decks are decent MU's overall

>ban Dredge piece for the exact same reason Affinity has been allowed to be tier 1 forever
>ban probe which is just a minor inconvenience for actually good decks like infect but a crippling blow to actually fun decks like storm

t-t-thanks

>>51142220
>storm
>in modern
pfft

>>51142220
>crippling blow to actually fun decks like storm
you can't kill what's already dead

>>51142233
I had a lot of fun playing the recent gifts storm list

Definitely not tier 1 but it could definitely compete

>>51142220
but anon affinity doesn't warp sideobards like dredge does :^)

>>51136504
Yeah, I am.

>>51142244
>literally every deck has a built in 4 card artifact hate sideboard
But I see your point ;)

>>51142367
but it's not just for affinity it's for lantern too which makes it ok :^)

>>51142407
Also gotta watch out for those super OP Tezzeret decks, wizards is so wacky unbanning such op and crazy cards!

>>51139057
Evolution is not that much different. You instead prioritize two/three mana creatures that have an etb/die effect, and 5 mana or less creatures that add to your board. One of the best plays was sac'ing Voice and getting Pia and Kiran Nalaar. Unfortunately, Eldritch was a tad bit too slow for me. Switched to Chord and have been having a gay ol' time.

>>51142762
Evolution is just a shit pod

>>51142596
Real talk improvise might help tezzerator, especially with that draw 3 card

>>51138263
Nothing but the "logic" of the autist you responded to. Wizards can do whatever the fuck they want with their game, like make Tribal no longer a card type since the mechanics that would make that functionally "impossible" are made up by Wizards anyways.

>>51138901

>Red is in such a sorry state that this trash is borderline playable in Standard

Why does Wizards hate red?

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Now that Gitaxian Probe is banned, maybe they can look at banning Mox Opal.

Seriously, Chrome Mox is banned but this thing isn't? What?

>>51143117
affinity hasn't ever been putting up good results recently

>>51143117
Opal is fine but I can actually see them banning it
Which would mean they probably ban Simians later on with Mopal ban as a precedent
But they seem fine with affinity in the format so I doubt it

>>51143117
Probe could be jammed in any deck.
Opal needs to be built around.
If anything I'd say Mox Opal is a well designed card and Affinity is far from oppressive.

>>51143117
Its just mana acceleration, a basic magic mechanic.

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>>51143117
Affinity, like dredge, makes people commit sideboard space just in case it shows up.
When people get comfortable and stop boarding for it, it shows up and gets easy wins.

It's an annoying deck and Arcbound Ravager makes the affinity player's board non-interactive.

It can go very wide, very tall, has very good evasion and can pack Inkmoth Nexus for infect wins.

>>51143244
Sounds like it's just a good deck. If it was really that bad it would have been dominating. It dropped off after Eldrazi Winter and will probably continue to fall in favour in the upcoming meta

>>51140288
T. Butthurt dredge player

>>51140369
Its just a one for one swap from troll to thug. I warn you the deck is much worse now.

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>>51141175
That's what he did request, put he threw away the match from tilting very hard. It was hilarious.

>>51141193
Thanks.

>>51141246
Lol'd. But pic related.

>Modern burn costs more than Legacy burn
kek.

>>51141733
Not bad ones like that

>>51143459
Specifically due to the shocks you need where in Legacy its just basics. Also Chain Lightning used to be like $15 so that wasnt always the case.

>>51143532
Even with CL at 15 it was still cheaper than modern burn

>>51141733
Trying to build GW Martyr Proc list with gaddock teegs and loxodon smiter for the heavy GBx and tron meta I forsee coming. I should honestly just build GW hatebears but I enjoy martyr proc too much.

>>51143587
Then im guessing its just cause Fireblast , Vortex,and Price are very cheap

>>51143601
It's mostly because all those duals are expensive and legacy burn is ultra cheap

>>51143532
The main point is that if not for dual lands, Legacy on general costs you same on the average as a Modern deck.

Modern was made because people cried about prices of Legacy.

At this point if you want to get into Modern, you might as well wait a few months and go into Legacy, where you know that the deck you're building won't be fucked by a banlist any time soon.

Yet, if you want to get into Legacy, you might as well wait a few more months and get into Vintage, that is if you don't mind playing with moderately/heavily played power cards.

In the end - Modern failed at everything it was promised to be.

It's almost as expensive as Legacy, before banlist it was as fast as legacy if not faster than it because of lack of good control/interaction cards.

Yet, the community in general continues to hate on Legacy and Vintage and praise Modern.

It's like watching U.S. politics.

>>51141694
I love hatebear. I know it's not a consistent deck but man it's fun.

>>51143636
Was modern ever paraded around as a cheap format? I always thought it was just a replacement for extended

>>51143636
>It's almost as expensive as Legacy
It's not though, the most expensive legacy deck is twice as much as the most expensive modern deck

Does Esper Delver have any viability or is it a terrible idea

>>51143675
What is
>on average
Exactly like U.S. politics.

>>51143752
What are you getting out of white? 4 bolt 4 push is better than 4 path 4 push in delver, and the only other good mainboard-able card in modern is lingering souls. Sideboard cards are decent I guess, still doesn't seem worth it though.

>>51143658
Not just that, but also new player friendly. Which is unthinkable of at the moment.

>>51143775
legacy decks are more expensive on average too. Legacy only really wins out price wise if you want to build a whole bunch of decks, just because more cards are shared between decks than in modern.

What the fuck happened to /tg/ and when did this thread get so clogged up with shitters.

You people legitimately believe these bans even hurt anything, let alone are going to change the metagame? What the fuck decks are you guys playing?

>>51143872
You don't get it anon. Storm was solidly tier 7, without git probe it's dead!

>>51143779
>What are you getting out of white?
Geist of Saint Traft?

random question since this seemed to be the busiest MTG thread

Does Crackdown Construct crew a Cultivator's Caravan fully on its own since it grows a point from the crew trigger?

Just pulled a Saheeli. Will the current bubble pop soon, or should I just stick with her and pray that she doesn't get hit with bans?

Also pulled a Smuggler's Copter too. ;-;

>>51143961
you should be able to fucking trade in Copters to wizards for free replacement boosters

>>51143931
>Dredge is dead because it has to sometimes Dredge 2 less cards

>Infect is dead because Become Immense costs 1 more now

Seriously what the fuck is up with the ban apologists lately?

If you play Infect and seriously need to use the "information" Gitprobe gave you to win, you need to kill yourself.

>>51143958
No.

>>51143987
Are you sure? The Construct Trigger goes on the stack my man

>>51143982
What weirds me out is that dredge was decent before Mom Hugs, which is 50% better at milling than what it replaced, but people freak out that dredge has to use thug rather than the 50% better at milling GGT. GGT can be cast for a fatty while hugs digs deeper for sideboard cards, but in terms of actually putting your deck into your graveyard the difference is just variance.
>>51144002
You can't activate the ability if he isn't a 3/3 to begin with

>>51143961

>tfw I pulled 2 Saheeli in the box i opened a bit after launch and never got rid of them because the price was so low

>>51144022
Ah I see

that's fucking lame. I guess I'm using black for Tezzeret in my Standard Colossus deck instead of red for Crackdown Construct and Fumarole, althought I'm sure there could be a million ways to trigger it with all the other artifacts

thx m8

Will Cheerios be real now?

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In memoriam.

>>51144138
>>51144148
>>51144157
>>51144165
these are my favorite

>>51144198
The new ones are all forced le epic maymays.

>>51136626
>control
>probe is mandatory
Only in delve variants dumbass. Inb4 no control in modern

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will stoneforge ever get unbanned?

/tg/'s opinion on best tron variant atm?

>>51136236
F

Ban Batterskull
Ban Liliana
Unban Bloodbraid Elf
Unban SfM
Unban Preordain

There, I fixed modern.

>>51140143
>dredge not combo
Full retard.

>>51144666
nice b8, m8. I r8 it 8/8.

>>51144666
>Unban Preordain
Just no.

>>51140143
>it's not combo if it's not a combination of two cards
There's this thing called "resource-based combo" or "critical-mass combo" however you want to describe it. Infect and dredge are both such combo decks with an aggro b plan.

>>51142367
This is just false, stop posting.

>>51144799
Dredge is a combo deck.
Infect is not.

The main point is that combo decks need to "combo-off". For dredge, that is to send dredge cards and win-con pieces into grave and then use dredge cards to trigger those win-cons to simplify it to the very basics.

Infect is simply an aggro deck that deals poison instead of normal damage.

Calling infect a combo deck is same as calling burn a combo deck.

To further extend - dredge, as any combo, uses very specific cards and calls for very specific conditions to win. Examples:
Storm: a specific amount of spells cast in a single turn.
Dredge: a set of specific cards in grave that triggers from dredge mechanic.
Vault-key: Time Vault and Voltaic Key in play.
Doomsday: Specific cards in your deck/grave that would guarantee you a victory during your next turn or the one where you resolved Doomsday + a cantrip/draw spell.

We could go into even more obscure examples or "single card" examples, like Tinker that go into control shells or support other combos like before mentioned vault-key.

Infect is not specific nor does it need to meet ANY specific conditions. You simply play creatures that have "Infect" written on it and generic grow spells. That's simply a deck building process.

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>>51141733

>>51144972
>The main point is that combo decks need to "combo-off"
>play infect creature
>play enough pump spells to make it lethal in one turn
How is infect's plan A not about going off? The fact that it can also play it slower does not mean it doesn't often function like a combo deck. Generic aggro decks do NOT play random giant growths. It's combo-aggro decks like Infect or Kiln Fiend that pack a shitton of pump spells.

Obviously the Shoal version that existed in early modern was more combo-oriented but that does not mean the current version has no combo aspect to it.

>>51143636
Legacy is unfortunately much more expensive then Modern. And often theres no scene for a lot of people so why build a paper deck if theres so few people to play with. Also while Legacy is a great format, Vintage is probably the worst, there is such a thing as cards that are too powerful.

>>51145071
Please read the rest of my post.

I do not argue that infect does not have a combo aspect to it - of course it does have some, especially in it's past iterations.

I am simply trying to explain it is not a combo deck, as it doesn't even share similarities to the defining aspects of what combo decks are. I cannot stress enough the word DECK. A deck built around combo.

A deck that has some kind of 2 card combo or so is not a combo deck - For example, normal Gifts Ungiven decks are not combo decks, even if they have some 2+ card combos in it.

Also:
>Generic aggro decks do NOT play random giant growths
Mono green stompy does play growth effects.

Pumping your creature to put 10 poison counters on your opponent faster than you would without them is simply a strategy - it by no means make it a combo deck.

Of course - feel free to call it however you want, no one will force you to follow the guidelines nor does deck labels impact the game or actually matter in any way.

>>51138057
Dismember is kinda needed doe

>>51145133
>nor does deck labels impact the game or actually matter in any way.
Well this is obviously true.
I just object to people calling infect a pure aggro deck when it has the combo aspect. I agree with most everything you said.

>Mono green stompy does play growth effects.
I disregarded shitty decks, sorry.

>>51145098
I play Vintage and I can only disagree.

I do not know what your experience with or knowledge about Vintage is, however many people have the impression that Vintage is nothing but Turn 1 combo decks like storm, dredge and oath going rampage.

The reality couldn't be further from the truth. Vintage current meta is filled with monk and delver decks, some hate-bear/eldrazi decks and workshops decks. The ammount of combo decks is very small.

Delver/Monk decks keep oath decks in check and workshops/hatebears keep storm in check. Storm can race dredge successfully and otherwise any decks sideboard can deal with dredge.

The games are not short, nor too fast. They are skill-intense in terms of decision, tactics and strategy as well as general knowledge and are very interactive.

If not for the price-point - it is hands down the best format of Magic, that requires the most skill and knowledge, however is the least casual and new-player friendly because of it.

The fact that all decks can play powerful cards shifts the meta into a "circle" of 1 deck beating another certain deck that beats another certain deck, turning all the way to it beating the first deck and that's just pre-sideboarding. This stops any 1 deck dominating, differently from most other formats.

>>51144534
The one that plays those lands with Urza in their name.

>>51144534
If Dredge will drop as dead as I think, no reason to play white in the future, just maindeck a couple Relics. Sudden Shock is infinitely better vs Affinity, Infect and Kiln Fiend than Path and Pyroclasm has a higher overall EV. Red also gives access to Crumble to Dust for mirror and Scapeshift and Life from the Loam basically negates everything but Crumble vs you whereas Crucible just gets blown up. Not taking damage with Grove and having them etbu every time is excellent. Colorless is just worse Bant Eldrazi and MonoU is a joke.

New thread
>>51145504
New thread
>>51145504
New thread
>>51145504

>>51138121
>if infect has no idea how much removal the opponent is holding one turn why would they suddenly be safe next turn?

Because now they need the extra mana to represent vines/blossoming defense? Do you lack critical thinking skills?

>>51145194
A format with as high a variance as vintage cannot be the "best" format for skill. Restricting cards is objectively dumb and decreases skill by increasing variance. It's a fun format, but not as skill intensive as you make it out to be. Hell, even legacy is more skill intensive than vintage due to it.