Warhammer Fantasy General

>>51112836
Shape shifting daemon is perfectly fine.

>>51112903
Everything Archaos is lame and uninteresting.

>>51112940
Don't be butthurt just because he won.

>>51112903
I agree, but I'm open to diverging opinions.

>>51112940
He was interesting before the Storm of Chaos failure. After that he just became the new Abaddon that just sat on his ass for a decade and he would mever have done anything else if they didn't decide to end Warhammer.

>>51112836
>Kindly no End Times or Age of Sigmar. It's not the same universe.
Uh, the End Times was though. It was the end of the universe under discussion. Weird to conflate it with the subsequent replacement product.

>>51113016

But I'd expect her to go full strigos for being cuckqueaned by a mortal woman from an imperial backwater.

>>51113061
>Kindly no End Times or Age of Sigmar. It's not the same universe.

Was he though? There's never been anything interesting about the Ultimate Chaos Champion uniting all the hordes. They're cooler when they're less successfull but more quirky, like your Aekolds and Sigvalds and Valkias.

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>>51111563
>Still hesitant, though, since ranged weapons can't be dodged to begin with.

That's the thing, I allow non-bullet missiles to be dodged with Dodge Blow. Ultimately this seems to work. Missiles are much more dangerous, but they're also less 'you will get hit.' Consequently, they're more useful for players and no less useful for mooks.

I only allow bullets to be dodged if you have Dodge Blow and the Sixth Sense talent.

Any good rules for Engineers in WFRP? I'd like more concrete rules for making crazy clockwork contraptions and weapons.

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So, there's 5 known bloodlines - Lahmians, Blood Dragons, Strigoi, Necrarchs, and the Carsteins - out of a supposed 7; the remaining two being headed by Maatmeses and Harakhte (picture related).

But I also found claims elsewhere that there were 11 bloodlines, and something about a vampire lord called Ahnket, who supposedly fucked off to Cathay and later became a pirate in the Sea of Chaos; but I can't find anything on that guy, anywhere, or what his bloodline would be called.

So, thoughts on the remaining bloodlines? What they could be, what they should be, etc.

>>51112974
He wasn't interesting beforehand either.

He's a nobody that gets pumped up as being "da bestest" without actually doing jack shit until a hamfisted and forced railroaded story.

Wulfrik is intreresting. Sigvald actually has a reason for being Chaos.
Archaos just exists.

>>51113277
I generally make it a Trade (x) test with the cost being 1/2 the standard purchasing price in components. A Poor quality object is a standard test. A Common is made at -10%. A Good at -20%. A Best at -30%.

If the test fails, the object you were making is useless and the components are completely wasted. Not having tools renders the test impossible most of the time, but in some cases it merely causes a penalty.

>>51113155
This.

Undivoded being the special chosen for reasons is lame. Archaon is just handed everything and whines like a toddler.

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>>51112974

>>51113323
Neferata made a fuckton of vampires. Two sources named them, but most had totally different names between the two. Then her book cherry-picked from both.

She for sure had a second in command that she turns into a cat, a Cathayan she sent east to command the Silk Road, and three who died.

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>>51112836
I was thinking about what made factions ultimately likeable and funny and ended up questioning why chaos daemons aren't among them
>large open fluff with numerous possible interactions among themselves and with others
>opportunities for grimderp and contradictory shenanigans
>aesthetic capable of drawing plentiful from the rule of cool/crazyness
they are not in the end so different from lizardmen, skaven, kangz and greenskins after all and yet are not treated with the same regards

Am I wrong in thinking their role as ultimate bbeg choke down a lot of character out of them?
would you treat the factions differently if there was no titular bbeg or "heroes side" and all factions while each having its own distant end goal behaved as mostly non unified warbands with independent or even conflicting ideas?

pic in honour of tzeentch
censored for your safety

>>51112974
The only reason anyone liked him before he won was in comparison to Abaddon.

>>51113323
someone mentioned insects-vampires in araby in the last thread or so, don't know what he was talking about exactly though

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Do lizardmen have or believe in an afterlife?
If they believed in reincarnation through the spawnings pools cycles would they be open to ritual sacrifices of their own kind?

>>51113061
Given that the story never continued past Storm of Chaos, I think that the comparison to Abaddon is a bit unfair. I realize that they occupy the same narrative position, and I share the feeling that Archaon is pretty lame and uninteresting, but him failing in Storm of Chaos doesn't really turn him into Failbaddon.

The post-Storm of Chaos setting is actually really interesting, with Archaon on the lose, Chaos in the north, famine knocking at the Empire's door, and so on. It's not Archaon's fault GW never did anything worthwhile with it.

>>51113155
>Aekolds and Sigvalds and Valkias
This I completely agree with. The whole "this guy is super-successful and unites all these disparate and otherwise disunited groups because reasons and rides at the top of the horde because things".

I mean, this goes for any such scenario. When push comes to shove, Sigmar, as a character, in a narrative sense, isn't really that interesting either. The difference is that Sigmar is more in the backdrop of the setting, I think, and the whole thing is a bit mysterious. Archaon pretends to be interesting, but really isn't.

>>51113277
None that I know of. Warhammer Fantasy as a whole isn't really the setting for crazy clockwork contraptions and weapons, and WFRP:s focus tends to be even more "down to Earth". I would think that making crazy clockwork contraptions and weapons would be more for legendary engineers, and thus largely outside the scope of the game.

That said, if you're just talking about rigging up some springs, an auto-torch, some binoculars, maybe make a clock, you know, not robots or autoguns, I guess that'd work. No official support whatsoever, though.

Probably Extended Trade Tests, maybe with some appropriate Knowledge Tests thrown in there.

>>51113558
I have no idea.

So my answer is "Obviously".

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>>51113805
>Warhammer Fantasy as a whole isn't really the setting for crazy clockwork contraptions and weapons

....What?

Are you even familiar with the setting? Dwarves, Empire, Tilea... But the point is that its complicated, expensive and rare.

It a healthy dose of DaVincipunk, while not going full cogfop retard. Hell, a lot of the designs are directly ripped from Da Vinci!

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>>51113942

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>>51113970

>>51113407
The problem with Daemons is the Chaos Gods. Being nothing but a tiny speck in an infinite hateful power that won before the game ever started is pretty lame.

Carnival of Chaos is fun because its Chaos pursuing immediate gratification rather than the longterm goal of destroying everything. Its not mindless either.

Tzeentch Daemons are ultimately blind pawns to schemes they barely understand if at all. Khornates have almost no personality, even his Greater Daemons are generally single-minded.
Nurgle and Slaanesh get to be interesting in stories, but those got forgotten more and more every edition in favor of empowering Archaon and End Times planning.

>>51113407
>questioning why chaos daemons aren't among them
I don't know. I always felt like they were a little bit too "out there", and I always felt having multiple different indistinct Chaos factions just seemed.. weird. I never actually played, myself, but I'd be surprised if nobody shared my feeling that it looked like a clusterfuck, meaning many would be hard-pressed to originally go for them as an army, even if it ultimately wasn't as confusing as it originally appeared.

Because you are obviously entirely correct. Anyone could've done practically anything and just said "It's Chaos, lol". I would've personally loved to have an army of unaligned Chaos Daemons under the control of some unaligned Daemon Prince or Greater Daemon, or just straight-up make up my own Chaos God that they worship or were a part of.

>>51113942
Some people really want this to be the setting that is all about dirty farmers dying to a goblins dirty knife in the dirt of some muddy field, not realzing that it can encompass all sorts of things.

>>51113701
>The difference is that Sigmar is more in the backdrop of the setting, I think, and the whole thing is a bit mysterious.

Yah exactly. It's enough to know that the state religion is based around posthumous worship of the first great conqueror-unifier-king, it doesn't matter what he was like as a person. And when they try to bring Sigmar as a character to the forefront, like saying this guy might be his reincarnation or having the actual gods come to earth and punch things up, it falls flat because there is no character there to examine.

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>B-But AoS doesn't sell! GW is dying!

KEEEEEEEEK

thanks for financing the next 20 AoS battletomes grognards

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>>51114061
Thats one of the strong points about the setting... Just like real life, you can do both.

One of my favorite little pieces of full if about a huge clockwork display/memorial automaton in the middle of a big Imperial city. It plays patriotic music on basically a giant music box/organ, and has heroic and pious figures rotating around it. If a man signs the scrolling paper at the bottom, it dispenses a couple of coins, and a printed sheet of enlistment, and you're now in the Imperial army. There is official art somewhere....

Pic is the 15thC real life prosthetic arm of Baron Götz "Iron Hand" von Berlichingen. Complex enough to use for both writing, and swordsmanship.

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Honest opinions on WHFRP 3E?

Not looking to start arguments or anything, but I have everything printed for that game (with the exception of most card packs and Adventurer's Toolkit) and haven't gotten around to running a game.

From reading the materials, I get the strong impression that the game works well with its published adventures, but may be very cumbersome for improvised play.

The dice by far seem to be the most unique aspect, and I do think the more "tactile" nature of the game would appeal to certain players of mine.

TL;DR, should I bother trying the game out? Tips? Or should I just keep all of this stuff in mint and sell it so some collector 20 years from now?

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>>51114159
>40k releases
>40k releases
>40k releases
I mean, I'm sure AoS sells better than dying fantasy, but the relevant question was whether AoS would sell better than a fixed fantasy.

good for GW in proving to themselves that discount boxes and redesigned old concepts sell, a bit sad the fluff will suffer for that.
at least the boat has already sailed for me.

have a nice tzaanuary, flamer-kun.

>>51114332
It was more or less a scam, like Edge of the Empire, designed to jew the customer to death with highly incremental releases of minimal value possible in order to maximize profit and make proxying as difficult as possible.

Unlike EotE, though, it is also a bad game mechanically.

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>>51114159
You should take a moment and look at as much of the graph as you can, instead of a relatively narrow snippet.

GW is just getting back to where they were in 2013, and back early in 2005.

>>51114040
>The problem with Daemons is the Chaos Gods.
That might be it.

They would need a way to reverse the cause-effect on most of the actions of the gods and keep them distant, at least from the narrative POV.

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>>51114332
The game, even if you are made of money and have all the stuff, just doesn't have the feel or freedom of 2ndEd. It feels far more high-heroics board game than any way a Warhammer RPG.

That all said, some people love it. Most hate it, but there is a small, strong following.

Download all the books and fan expansions for 2ndEd, and sell that 3rdEd stuff to one of the die hards now, who will shell out a mess of cash for extra stuff.

>>51114397
>AoS sells better than dying fantasy
A system they purposefully neglected the demands and interests of, before driving it into the ground for a cash grab.... All so they could make an IP the could copyright everything in.

>>51114435
Oh, and my memory might be shit, but wasn't 2013/2014 about when the End Times happened? So it's reasonable to assume that GW had a sudden rise from the event, and then went downhill afterwards for a while that they are only recently recovering from.

>>51114040
Well that's one way of looking at things, but try considering it from the angle that each of the Ruinous Powers are too vast to be proper personalities, whereas ever greater daemon is a minor god with their own histories, motivations and a lot of autonomy.

Khorne himself is a howling vortex of bloodlust that has throne of skulls I guess and sometimes likes honourable combat but other times only wants torrents of blood (actually he's always both ways). Individual Khornate daemons though might slant more towards Khorne-as-soldier, Khorne-as-serial-killer, Khorne-as-the-horrors-of-mechanized-warfare. I like to go with the fan-fluff that Hashut was a renegade Bloodthirster as a model for how far daemons can stray from the parent template.

Likewise, instead of thinking of Lords of Change as Tzeentch's ministers who blindly implement his Great Plan, consider that the mind of the entity Tzeentch is too inchoate to commit to any definite scheme. Instead it's the daemons themselves, each of them a potential Tzeentch in their own right, who actually form and orchestrate the schemes, and often end up working at cross purposes.

>>51114419
I only managed to acquire my collection this past year, so I wasn't paying much attention to how the game was being marketed/sold.

I do find it odd how the later released books try to make eschewing the components (released until that point) an option, but from just looking at the layout it seems more difficult than using said components in the first place.

And then everything released after that ignores this new option, and only presents these materials as the way to play. Strange.

Any specific examples of poor mechanics?
I haven't played 2e (not that you can really compare them), but am very familiar with the 40k line (which I am aware borrowed heavily.)

>>51114435
yes exactly, WHFB grognard stop buying and they killed AoS and know they rise from their ashes.

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>>51113942
>Are you even familiar with the setting?
Lol, yes.

Like I said, "as a whole". They're expensive and rare, made by incredibly talented, exceptional or unique individuals. You said it yourself, they're complicated, expensive, and rare.

If someone said that they wanted to make a spell that could destroy Altdorf, I'd similarly tell them that Warhammer Fantasy as a whole isn't really the setting for earth-shattering spellcasting capable of leveling cities.

But does it happen? Yeah, it happens. And so do Steam Tanks. All.. what? 12 of them, I think? And when dealing specifically with WFRP, much like Battle-Wizards, designing gyrocopters and autonomous clockwork warriors isn't within the scope of the game. By and large, of course.

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>>51114474
>A system they purposefully neglected
I know gropey, I know

>the peak is 6th ed

>>51114257
>If a man signs the scrolling paper at the bottom, it dispenses a couple of coins, and a printed sheet of enlistment, and you're now in the Imperial army.

Now there's a concept that has me excited to do my part for the defence of the realm! Time to mechanically enlist my landlord, my wife's lover, my layabout half brother...

>>51114509
Borrowed heavily from 2e, I meant to say.

>>51114474
I could see a use for trying to convert hardcore board gamers into roleplayers, I suppose.

>>51114332
I mean if you have it all it'd be silly not to try it out.

IMO it's basically a good game that could have used a couple more playtesting and editing passes. The core mechanics are way cooler than the old WFRP system, but there are far too many extraneous subsystems.

Unfortunately the revised WFRP 3 we got turned out to be Star Wars. Not much chance of seeing a better take on the Warhammer setting now...

>>51114559
don't forget that GW were flying high on the cash influx from the LotR stuff.
For a while, when the movies were in the cinemas, they did really well.

GW opened all kind of new stores and tried to expand aggressively, which backfired when the hype for the movies died down.

>>51114538
>WHFB grognard stop buying
why did they stop so suddenly?

>>51114559
>The peak is 6th
>Ignoring the while range that drive the sales : 40k

yeah.. sure its 6th..

>>51114669
I never understood the scope of their incomes from lotr.

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>>51114001
Goddamnit, where did this one come from?
I thought I had all of these saved, but apparently some have evaded my compulsive collection habit.

>>51114680
Me and my group didnt buy snything since 6th because gw can suck dicks woth their WOW tier shit sculpt

>>51114159
The pound is rebounding you idiot

>>51113367
Do you actually try to prove anything with this picture?
In a setting like this?

>>51114702
I was more referring to "6th" as the period of time in which gw defined the style used in that edition and the parallel 40k one that rides a similar time frame (3rd ed and start of 4th I think), sharing in fact writers, artists and stylistic choices.

>>51114509
>I do find it odd how the later released books try to make eschewing the components (released until that point) an option, but from just looking at the layout it seems more difficult than using said components in the first place.

lol, yes. the game frankly doesn't work without the cards, and the cards are what enable the degree of complexity in the actions, but the backlash from the WFRP fanbase for selling a game that uses what looks like components of a boardgame was immediate and extreme, so they were basically doing damage control for the product's entire lifespan.

Speaking as roleplayer who hardly ever board games, I'm interested whenever I see a game try new mechanical devices and find the automatic disdain towards board game trappings - as if they were something childish and true roleplayers should gradually shed such crutches and aspire to a higher form of play that takes place entirely in the mind - to be both baffling and vaguely embarrassing.

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>>51114435
And it's carried by Total War: Warhammer, Vermintide, and others.

>>51114332
It's board-game-y in nature, with special dies and cards, and it doesn't really carry the spirit of Warhammer Fantasy very well, which is already apparent in the writing and the art that it is far more "high adventure!" than the atmosphere most fans want out of Warhammer Fantasy.

For anyone familiar with FFG, it should be obvious that they have a very different idea as to what constitutes a good RPG compared to what Black Industries had. They want things to be increasingly epic and preferably action-packed or "dynamic", and while that doesn't really work very well with the style in WFRP (http://www.criticalmiss.com/issue8/jameswallisreplies1.html) it fits excellently with their much more profitable Star Wars RPG.

Which is why a lot of people that hate WFRP3 still love FFG:s Star Wars RPG, even though WFRP3 was basically a testing ground for the (foundationally near-identical) system in Star Wars. Different appeals, different experiences, different systems.

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>>51114558
Thats your prerogative, but there are plenty of reasons to have access to basic clockwork fuckery in even low level games, as long as they realize that it may make them a target of thieves, or maybe even fear in the more backwater places.

>>51114561
They would have to have the enlistment coin, and there are guards around it (typically veterans still useful, but that pegleg would slow them on the march).

Nice try, now get to your barracks.

>>51114680
Sudden shift in game focus. It became all about large units and big monsters- which were originally considered centerpieces- now became the norm. On top of this, the huge aesthetic change in the overall product, as well as price hikes.

>>51114728
Dude, there is a tumblr page of nothing but the concept art for most of the races. Google reverse search it

I miss the old "real historic stuff, made beliveably fantastic" look.

>>51114497
The problem is examples.

Almost all Chaos fluff has the Chaos Gods behind it. They appear to have a very tight leash.
Every Bloodletter is a single-minded killing machine with no thought otherwise, Tzeentch keeps his own minions in ignorance. Nurgle and Slaanesh let their Daemons run free, but even then a story begins and ends in the Chaos God.
Greater Daemons have as much importance as the random name of a general in a book.

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>>51114509
>I haven't played 2e (not that you can really compare them), but am very familiar with the 40k line (which I am aware borrowed heavily.)

It didn't just borrow heavily. Dark Heresy was originally created by Black Industries, who wrote the entire line of WFRP2. And although Dark Heresy had some issues, it should be apparent for any veteran of WH40kRP how the games got increasingly "epic" as time went on, how the numbers kept increasing beyond any reasonable measure, and how poorly the d100 system does with high numbers.

I don't think FFG ever understood the original d100 system, how you're supposed to use difficulties, and just how much casual input the GM should/must have (Protip: It's actually a lot). And it just kept spinning out of control.

Being familiar with the WH40kRP series is a blessing and a curse when it comes to playing WFRP2, because you make assumptions based on your experience ("I can do a Full Aim for +20, right?"; no such thing actually exists, although any reasonable GM will let you do that, obviously), but you also know how it all fits together, you know how to make quick calls in difficulty, and how Degrees of Success/Failure works, etc.

Personally, though, I must say that since I started playing WFRP2, I think it's superior to all the WH40kRP games in almost every single way. It's got some flaws by comparison, none which are easily fixed (I really think Perception should be a Characteristic, and I think that several skills could be more or less pulled from Dark Heresy) due to the Career system - but the Career system is also WFRP:s biggest strength, and I absolutely love how you slowly build your character if you live long enough, and you might end up not being able to follow a straight path at all, due to circumstance, making you a natural part of the universe in which the character lives, having to evolve "naturally", rather than following an easily predictable path.

>>51114866
Don't forget the shift to centerpieces and hordes when cannons and magic were at their strongest.

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>>51114866
I saved 314 images from a tumblr (which is gone now, apparently) and I thought that was all of them.

Reverse image searching just gives me old /tg/ threads

>>51114866
>Thats your prerogative, but there are plenty of reasons to have access to basic clockwork fuckery in even low level games, as long as they realize that it may make them a target of thieves, or maybe even fear in the more backwater places.

Well, you can obviously deviate from the themes and/or tones of the game and/or setting as much as you want in any given roleplaying game, so it doesn't really matter much.

The fact that stuff can be changed and "anything's possible" doesn't really change what I said originally though, that Warhammer Fantasy as a whole isn't really a setting for crazy clockwork contraptions and weapons.

They exist, but they're complicated, expensive, and rare. What you do in your games is, as always, up to you.

>>51115166
I think there is a miscommunication here bro. I said those exact words here >>51113942

Unless you're just being a tool, in which case, carry on.

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Speaking of crazy contraptions, look what I found in Total Warhammer.

Looks like the semaphore wasn't forgotten entirely after the Enemy Within.

>>51115166
Warhammer can, in both feel and canon, do both of what you want. You're an anus, anon.

>>51115221
>wooosh
I'm agreeing with that sentiment, hence the repetition.

>>51114864
> it doesn't really carry the spirit of Warhammer Fantasy very well, which is already apparent in the writing and the art that it is far more "high adventure!" than the atmosphere most fans want out of Warhammer Fantasy.

Yo, have you looked at the covers of WFRP 1st or 2nd edition lately? High adventure with an extra large helping of blood, guts and grime has always been one of the game's foremost promises. Judging by the many adventures and campaigns throughout its publication history it's always leaned towards high action, with a heavy helping of combat (not as much as most D&D modules, but that's an extreme case). And your linked image reads like the climax of one of the later Gotrek and Felix novels - the kind of thing that'd reasonably happen in a high-powered WFRP campaign if your group wanted to play through your own 'End Times' scenario.

Now it's ALSO the mainstream fantasy RPG where a college dropout is a useful starting character because of their reading and alcohol handling skills, but you know, you wouldn't want to pigeonhole the game too much.

>>51115054
Well, the IP is finished and done with and half of it was crap anyway. Use the version of Warhammer that best suits your gaming.

>>51114811
It's not about "muh mindgame", it's about restriction of action and choices. Cards and "abilities" like that feel extremely artificial, especially if you are used tp the relatively free-form of WFRP1-2.

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>>51115116
>I saved 314 images from a tumblr (which is gone now, apparently) and I thought that was all of them.
Anon who posted the images here at the beginning, I discovered the site (darkspacesomething) by a link of one of the images posted the 9th age forum, the link led to nothing at the time I found it (roughly a week after the original post) and could only try to forcefully access the locked tumblr site with random passwords and check online if there was a full collection of saved and rehosted images (the only decent one was on an empire themed forum), until at some point the tumblr page opened again and was able to save all pics, here are the fantasy ones
http://m.imgur.com/a/k3bQl
http://m.imgur.com/a/U7gBf
http://m.imgur.com/a/Lk3H2

see if there are images you're missing or if you have fantasy images from that site that don't appear here (which may either not be from that site or been added in the small time frame between my checks of it and its last closure) and if you can, post them.

>>51115166
Clockwork horses, dude.

Admittedly that's when I thought they were starting to take the piss a bit, and I like to think the woman that made them robotic steeds got burned for blatant witchcraft and daemon-smithing after a cursory investigation.

>>51115485
The tones of WFRP2 and WFRP3 are completely different. The art is very different. The adventures are very different. Your own End Times scenario and a Gotrek & Felix novel does not change that.

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>>51115612
You will be a dirt farming peasant from a bretonni backwater, and like it! Guns are witchcraft!

>>51115568
Oh, fantastic, thanks.
I had most of them but it looks like I missed a batch somewhere.

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>>51115560
Well if you say so, I can't say your impressions and experiences are wrong, but I find it hard to see how you'd arrive at that conclusion. Like from the outset, you have rules for adjudicating generic actions and manoeuvres that your character hasn't learned a special trick for.

Like being able to pull out pic related as a special move with quantified effects doesn't limit or diminish anyone else's Intimidate skill, it's just one reliable way of making being intimidating work for you in a combat situation.

>>51115355
Like so many things in WHFB the signal towers were based on a real thing.
They only used wooden planks instead of giant metal skeletons though.

>>51115635
>The tones of WFRP2 and WFRP3 are completely different. The art is very different. The adventures are very different.

The art is the same! Black Industries and FFG had different artists on call but in content they're exactly identical!

The fluff is the same! The adventures, stripped to their pure narrative content, are the same shit as ever!

On these terms there's a much bigger discrepancy between 1st and 2nd edition, when the setting changed considerably.

>>51115070
There are elements of Dark Heresy like initiative and Unnatural Characteristics that work well but wfrp 2nd is much tighter.


By the time 40k gets to Deathwatch keeping up with rules is a fucking chore.

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>>51115906
There's an excellent novel called 'Pavane' that features a semaphore system heavily. I'm pretty sure it was this novel that inspired The Clacks in Discworld and the semaphore system in The Enemy Within (well, that and the real systems).

One version also had a cover by a certain Ian Miller that might look somewhat familiar.

>>51116072
>deepest lore

>>51116072
I'm intrigued but the summary blurb makes it sound like some patriotic britwank.

>In the year 1588, Queen Elizabeth was assassinated. That single tragedy set off a whole series of events, resulting in the Spanish Armada's defeat of England and subsequent demise of Protestantism. Now it's the 20th century, and the Church of Rome reigns supreme. People live a pastoral existence of guilds and farming, with technology held back to the level of the steam locomotive and primitive radio. Still, science cannot be held back forever...a revolution is building.

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>>51116343
There is an element of that in the overarching theme of England's rebellion against the Catholic church.
But it's well-written, so it doesn't come off as masturbatory. At least it didn't to me.

You can also see some themes that GW ran with in 40k, such as technological stagnation and theocracy. It's good anyway.

>>51116343

If Spain had conquered England, it probably would have had a rather large impact on future history.

However, really it's just a hook for a story he was writing anyway.

>>51116564
why does the empire prefer signallers to letters by bird?

>>51116644

They use both but the towers are a fast way of communicating with major cities.

>>51116644
It's vastly more reliable, and faster over long distances, at the cost of investing in constructing and manning the towers. The upside of homing pigeons is you can release them from anywhere without any infrastructure (but you won't get a reply).

>>51116644
Semaphore is much faster and more reliable. A pigeon can maybe travel twice as fast as a messenger on horseback. Historically, the first message from Paris to Lille made the distance in half an hour - approximately 1,380 kilometres an hour.

The downside is the cost of building and maintaining the towers. Also, it's really only suited to short messages like military intelligence or the price of grain. If you want to send a novel, you'd need to put it on a mail coach.

>>51116833
You'd figure Dwarfs would have telegraph. Or runes that glow and dim with a twin elsewhere.

>>51116923

A Gyrocopter can probably take a message pretty quickly.

Trouble with a signalling system is that many of the Throngs are no longer connected. The interconnecting tunnels are infested with goblinoids and the messages could be intercepted.

>>51116923
>You'd figure Dwarfs would have telegraph. Or runes that glow and dim with a twin elsewhere.

>implying their telegraph wouldn't consist in repeatedly hammering a solid metal bar passing in underground tunnels with a large object and perceive the vibrations from the other side by ear or sensitive beard-wishkers
I must admit it sounded less reasonable in my head

especially when thinking about the circumstances in which this kind of technique may have developed: mines cart rails

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Help me lads. Why does no other setting give me the same feeling as the Warhams does? Nothing seems to scratch the itch, no game captures my imagination so even technically 'better' games.

I'm currently trying to cobble some sort of campaign/skirmish game using some old Orcs and Perry HYW figures for Bretonnians. I could do with some ideas for cool junk in general, but I lack bits and the Perry figures are much finer than most I have available.

>>51112974
So he's Trump?

>>51117293
>Why does no other setting give me the same feeling as the Warhams does?
It was aesthetic based, not story based.

It's difficult to find settings that are born and developed the same way.

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>>51117331
>was

>>51117319
Actually, yes.

>Vague ideas
>Driven 100% by emotion
>"We're going to build a new setting, amd make Chaos and Sigmar pay for it."
>Slavs love him
All he needs to do is appoint a Dwarf treasurer.

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>>51117364
everything is going to be daijobu senpai

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>>51117497

>>51116923
Hilariously, skaven have telephone with viewscreens.

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>>51117293
You know how a six year old will play with all the toys that he finds awesome, even if they're from completely different series?

Warhammer is kind of like that, with just a little less hand-waving. It has a room for a little of everything, and in a lot of ways it's been really well thought out - based strongly on history, with strong bases to grow from even if by the end some things had gotten rather bleh.

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/5mz1ok/ca_i_love_you_youve_been_good_to_me_especially/

"Bretonnia will be getting stuff that isn't .... there ... or even ... anywhere..."

What OC units do you think CA will be giving the Brets after a decade of stagnation?

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>>51118698
Normally I'd argue that they'd be getting some of their old style of units - some of the gunpowder siege equipment, decent infantry units. It'd make sense considering how Total War styles of games would need a little more than cavalry.

But I haven't the faintest idea of what they could possibly make up that hasn't been anywhere in the lore before.

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>>51118857
>But I haven't the faintest idea of what they could possibly make up that hasn't been anywhere in the lore before.
toothbrushes

I just started playing WHFB on TableTop Simulator, it works well enough. But has half the support that 40k does so new models and fixes and everything else that is needed is slow to say the least.

>>51118698
Ghostly knights and commoners.

>>51116014
>The art is the same
Hahaha, notsureifserious.jpg

>>51116644
>>51116684
>>51116772
>>51116833
Also, semaphore towers do not get eaten by beastmen nearly as often.

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>>51119756
WITCHCRAFT!

>>51122476
Spirits of the land rising to defend it, like the Green Knight.

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>>51118698
>"Bretonnia will be getting stuff that isn't .... there ... or even ... anywhere..."
surely no big stuff, too many charlemagnes.

I imgagine RoR like ghostly knights, cow throwing trebuchets and maybe peasant levy with crossbows.

>>51119644
I swear you posted the exact same thing last thread

>>51123019
Maybe the vague phrasing is supposed to be a hint in of itself - they may not be getting physical things, but new blessings or magics.

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>>51123019
>crossbows
WITCHCRAFT!

>>51123019
>>51123306
I'm not going to lie, I would hate to see army-wide-style "Blessings of the Lady" buffs. Although it is a very important part of my headcanon, even very modern fluff makes it clear that the whole Grail Cult is an aristocracy and upper-class thing. The peasants find it strange, if not heretical, and although they might respect the faith (like they respect all kinds of weird-ass fucking folklore, forest-sprites, sages, supposedly magical tokens, garden & loft gnomes, and gnarly, strangely-bent pieces of wood) it's not really for them.

Outside of the Bretonnian nobility, the Old Gods still reign more or less supreme, not counting more local ones (like the Kislevite ones or Sigmar).

They're especially fond of Shallya, who many peasants also identifies as the Lady of the Lake, and for whatever reason, the Grail Knights and Damsels are apparently ruthless in stamping out this "heresy". I have personal theories as to why, but that's very headcanon-y.

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Which god is the best, and why is it Dazh?

Is it his golden hair? His sparkling eyes? His irresistable warmth and charisma?

>>51118698
Equality for peasants.

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Alright, I'll confess, I've actually found something I like about WFRP3. It's minor, but meaningful. WFRP3 apparently has a supplement called Tome of Adventure, which appears to be (I've only flipped through it) a fairly substantial and thorough guide on how to GM properly, what the assumptions are, and just generally a guide on proper structure and the pieces of a WFRP3 campaign. It even includes guidelines on downtime ("Interlude").

I'm not overly familiar with that many RPG:s, truth be told. I've played a ton of WH40kRP, I've played quite a bit of WFRP2, some Cthulhu/Delta Green, a bit of Shadowrun, and Eclipse Phase. That's about it, aside from a few failed attempts at other stuff that never really got off the ground (Pathfinder, FantasyCraft, etc.)

But in my limited experience, this is something I think is really missing in many systems. You often get the pieces, explanations on how mechanics are supposed to be used, and then you're just sorta dropped and expected to sort it out, and over time you learn to "make do" with what you have. This is what leads to people just running all the tests in WFRP/WH40kRP systems as Challenging (+0), or adding up all the modifiers instead of the GM making calls on the fly (adjusting successes/failures after the fact), or things just drag on without downtime at proper places (basically taking almost everything step-by-step, almost in realtime, often ending up giving no time for players to establish themselves as characters in the overall context, because you end up with not having "between adventures" as a thing, because it's an "ongoing" "adventure").

So while I still don't like the mechanics or the tone of WFRP3, making this supplement rather useless for WFRP2 (or other) use, I guess I should give credit where credit is due and say that if I were playing WFRP3, this'd actually be extremely helpful.

>>51123676
>equality
WITCHCRAFT!

>>51123867
>just running all the tests in WFRP/WH40kRP systems as Challenging (+0)
>HURR HURR HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO DO ANYTHING WITH A STAT OF 37?!
>better add more modifiers and higher numbers through actions, items and advancements
>the FFG way of d100

>>51123464
I'd like to hear your headcanon, mostly because I'm curious. It's hard to find much outside of round table thinkings that fluff out Bretonnia's relationship with the Old Gods - though I do think it's clever how the Shallyans chose to set up shop in a place where they don't have much power, it suits them nicely.

I'm hoping to paint up my eventual peasantry with small prayers to various gods on the backs of their shields, particularly Ulric and Myrmidia. Even if my skill likely means these will only be poor quality symbols rather than 'Shallya protect me.'

>>51123657
You mispelled Ranald

>>51114159
meh, GW WHFB ain't coming back anyway, I got T9A which I like anyway, so what do I care? If they give my vampires some love, I'll buy the minis, plain and simple. No reason not to. Provided they be good minis.

>>51123657
>Dazh
I always found it odd that Kislev has Dazh, Ursun and Tor as relatively local deities, with Dazh basically being a form of patron god of Kislev.

Even the halflings inside of the Empire itself has a few gods of their own, most notably Esmeralda.

The Tilean city of Luccini, a shameless rip-off of Rome, has the patron deities of Lucan and Luccina; equally shameless rip-offs of Romulus and Remus.

But Bretonnia seems to have no unique deities at all, save for the Lady, which is an aristocracy thing. It's just a little bit weird, given that there's been quite a bit of material for Bretonnia (as opposed to, say, Tilea or Estalia, or even Kislev).

At the very least, I would've expected some unique interpretations of Shallya or other major deities.

>>51124931
I think part of it is that GW didn't focus on the peasantry as much as the knights. For all we know, they follow archaic versions of various dieties, or have worked them into a Bretonnian context - Ulric being reimagined as a somewhat crude or old-fashioned knight, or Taal as something slightly more fae. Those two especially would fit well in a Bretonnian context, due to the fact that they rarely rely on gundpowder and peasants likely wouldn't have metal armor anyway. Rhya and Shallya could be considered variations on the Lady, or family, forming a sort of trinity.

But Verena and Renald probably would not be widely worshipped, at least publicly. They invite far too much dissent, and are cowardly and unchivalrous in tactics and theiving. Myrmidia might be on shakey ground as well, but more because her worship is not widespread.

>>51123657
>Which god is the best, and why is it Dazh?

Shallya. Cute not lewd.

would Warhammer work better if it copied Moorcock better, and Chaos and Order were sorta equal, with Chaos normally having upper hand due to being more aggressive and inventive, but constantly getting fucked by Balance?

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>>51123657
I'm partial to the Lady of the Lake. Not the End Times Lady, though. That was a rubbish reveal. I like her as a mysterious and ambiguous goddess. I also like the entire questing deal.

>>51125209
Lady, the goddess DM

>>51125192
I think that's kinda' how it used to be, but I don't really know much about the older editions.

>>51125192
I think it was better that they ended up doing their own thing even if Warhammer thrived on references and ripping off other peoples ideas.

>>51125192
It really depends on your view on Order vs. Chaos. Personally, I like the idea of realspace as a whole representing Order, while the immaterium constitutes Chaos. Forces in opposition to eachother, rather than individual gods with different agendas.

And Chaos as we know it is just as invaded by Order as Order (so, the regular world) is invaded by Chaos.

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>>51124931
There are so many lesser, regional gods, it's not even funny.
I imagine Bretonnia has more than its share of these, they're just too local to be mentioned in overviews. Barony of the Damned for instance details the Grand Sow of the Grismerie and her counterpart, the Black Pig of the Woods.

sorry to bring up ET, but I guess Nagash isn't considered THAT bad, is it?

what do you think of secondary vampire characters in that book? I kinda liked the lesser von Carsteins they introduced there and what does it mean to be von Carstein

>>51125874
>Ursash
>Ursun
>WAR OF THE BEAR

>>51115906
>They only used wooden planks instead of giant metal skeletons though
how comes people had like zero sense of style back then? and then same people somehow went and built gothic cathedrals. it baffles me.

>>51117293
Nevendaar gives me a feeling similar to Warhams, but then again I highly suspect it was pratially inspired by WHFB.

>>51126433
Ursash might just be the Ostland variant of Ursun.
Consider Tor and Toar, Haendryk and Handrich etc.

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>>51126556
>how comes people had like zero sense of style back then?
???
Optical telegraph was napoleonic/regency era. Pic related.

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Empire swagsman are going quite well, though still Quite wip for the faces, fuck eyes though just going to do better shading

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>>51122309
>serious
It's extremely the same, and you're not being honest with yourself if you claim not to see it. The FFG releases tend to have higher production values. When it comes to subject matter and overall direction, what's the difference between this...

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>>51126807
...and this?

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>>51126814
sorry, that's a shitty image. here's a better example of the line's colour artwork.

>>51126807
>>51126814
Not the guy you were talking to, but the 3e one has the warrior priest in plate and they're fighting an entire army of chaos warriors in what appears to be a siege.
The 2e one is just half a dozen beastmen.

Now, on the one hand, people made exactly the same arguments about the 1e>2e change. And the cover of 1e is just as ridiculous.
However, 3e definitely had a shift. Consider the fact that there were no rat catchers or halflings in the core set. There were two kinds of elf though.

>>51126673
Ursash is the god of hunting bears, though. That's just mean.

>>51126807
>>51126814
>>51126835
Ignoring the fact that the cover arts are in no way indicative of the general tone or themes of the games (or any games, usually), much less the playstyle and storytelling:

The first cover (WFRP3) depicts three characters in the middle of an ongoing chaos warzone, dressed in and wielding gear that could in no way be considered anything less than Good-craftsmanship, spells flying, eyes blazing, battling at least one major chaos champion covered in spikes and skulls.

The warrior priest is depicted as a classic full-fledged warrior priest, stylized warhammer, full plate, chain coat, etc. The Bright Wizard is depicted as a fire-headed, eyes-burning battle-wizard, tattoos flaring, as she incinerates in two directions at once, using her magical burning staff. The Slayer dwarf is a slayer,

The imagery is visceral and dynamic, the action ongoing, a snapshot of ongoing motion.

The second cover (WFRP2) depicts 5 characters in a set of ruins, their back up against the war, will several of them wounded, one seemingly having lost an eye. Several of the heroes are of indistinct nature, possibly a merchant or cartographer, and some form of female mercenary or soldier. They are engaged in a skirmish with 4-5 beastmen, fighting for their lives.

The would-be warrior priest is wearing a chain shirt and an animal fur cloak, while wielding a large stone mallet or warhammer. He does not have a circlet, suggesting that this is an initiate or lower warrior priest. The bright wizard is depicted as injured, dressed in muted red robes as befitting his order, while wielding a Sword of Rhuin. He's got red hair and a red beard, but otherwise carries no arcane marks yet, suggesting that he's a Journeyman at best. The Slayer dwarf is a slayer (but with cooler axes).

The imagery is anticipatory and tense, waiting for the pounce and what comes next.

I'm going to skip the last one, because there's no room, but sufficient to say, these things are nothing alike.

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Anyone able to say what set these are from?, could be equally old 40k/dwarf

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>$18 OOP Thorgrim
>Don't buy immediately
>Sold a minute later
>mfw
Why did I wait.

>>51127668
No idea. Some kind of pillars?

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>>51126872
>And the cover of 1e is just as ridiculous.
I don't know, anon. 1e had plenty of ridiculous stuff, and that was part of early Warhammer (I would lie if I said I didn't prefer the later stuff a bit), but the cover wasn't nearly as insane as WFRP3. It's a lot more in line with WFRP2.

>>51128032
The face that the guy in the middle makes is pretty ridiculous.

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>>51127668
They're from the Mines of Moria set for LotR.

>>51127668
LotR box set, I think the first one?

>>51128211
>>51128130
cheers anons, gonna use them for fantasy. don't tell gw

>>51128328
God's Speed

>>51125209
The Lady of the Lake is interesting especially because, while she's obviously inspired by the wood elf queen, it's up in the air on if she's her own deity or not. She might be a human misconception that through belief has become a deity in her own right - she has the blessings for it. The relationship between the Wood Elves and Bretonnians could always be argued - maybe the damsels were just the product of a cult of druids and hedge wizards in the forests, rather than elven training.

Since she was so mysterious, you could even make up your own take on her worship and 'personality.' Maybe she's a Shallya-like maiden or more like Verena with a stronger magical twist, maybe even peasants hang symbols of the Lady in their houses to ward off evil things, or priests in grail chapels practice rituals little different from that of Taal or Rhya to try and gain her favor.

Instead, the actual Lady was an elven goddess that people barely remembered, and was a total dick who was proud of having used the Bretonnians - in no way even sympathetic to them. We don't even know if she intentionally held them back technologically, or they just loved the gilded cage she 'uplifted' them into.

>>51125192
No, Moorcock is a fucking hack.

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>>51123657
>implying

>>51129886
I tend to think the technological stagnation was deliberate. It would be harder to keep the Bretonnians dependent otherwise.

>>51129886
Don't forget about her being surprised that the proud people she used were actually prideful and told her to fuck off.

Gotrek and Felix comic.

http://www.funnyjunk.com/channel/fuckin-warhammer/Warhammer+gotrek+felix+comic/acchLnp/

>>51132116
>It would be harder to keep the Bretonnians dependent otherwise

I mean, relatively speaking, the technological level doesn't really enter into whether they're "dependent" on not, if you think about it. It's not like the Lady offers a cure for all ills or that such a thing would be ruined by the advent of advanced modern medicine, or that Bretonnia having cannons would let them scry the secrets of the Lady.

I personally think that the whole regressive reactionism feeds into (and out of) the nobility "reliving" a never-actually-pre-existing age of chivalric virtues, a culture and religion fed and created by the Grail Cult (and probably the elves) as a means of controlling the Bretonnian aristocracy.

>>51132641
>or that Bretonnia having cannons would let them scry the secrets of the Lady
Don't they have cannons on their ships anyway? Sorry, I always forget.

>>51132162
>her being surprised
Well to be fair, she was an elf.
>told her to fuck off
Well to be fair, she was an elf.

>>51132813
Yes, it's considered a (dishonourable) necessity at sea.

This is why Bretonnians sometimes use cannons that are placed on wooden platforms that are then put into holes or (semi-mobile or built-for-purpose) pools that are then filled with water.

Thus satisfying the requirements of chivalry, because it is not being used on land.

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>>51129886
That's why I dislike the End Times canon. It kills all the mystery that made her compelling and captured the imagination.

>>51134021
It made her a bitch is what it did. A retarded bitch at that.

I hate when Bretonnian faggots say there faction are the good guys. At least in the Empire, the Knights will pat a state trooper on the back for good work, while in Bret they would probaly roast them alive.

>>51134743
>At least in the Empire, the Knights will pat a state trooper on the back for good work
[citation needed]

everyone knows tileans are the good guys

>>51134491
Most characters in the End Times became retarded to rush an apocalypse.

>>51134743
I like both Bretonnia and the Empire equally. What now, faggot?

>>51134805
You lazy Tileans are all just cowards compared to the people who are your shield.

Kislev stronk!

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>>51135558

How many settlements in Lustria have you settled snow nigger?

Oh yeah... that's right... NONE.

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>tfw there's so much content and fan material for Warhammer that creating a WFRP adventure is a serious research project.
I read a novel for this shit.
It's good stuff though. Every little bit of information breathes some life into the world.

>>51135558
>>51137247
Sartosa here, thanks for the lewt faggots.

>>51134743
Who ever says that? Does anyone say that? I thought everyone said that the Bretonnians were laughably backwards, and tyrannical in their treatment of common peasants.

I get that Bretonnians are the shiny knights, but there's no such thing as a fully good faction in Warhammer, even if the 'good' factions are mostly good.

>>51139016
Carnac thinks that by attacking Bretonnia, he's trolling Fantasyfags.

I'm guessing he doesn't attack Tomb King because he doesn't know enough about Egypt.

>>51112836
How much Vampire blood does one have to drink to become a vampire? I used to think one drop is enough but then I played Total War: Warhammer and found that when Mannfred begs for mercy he offers a few drops of his blood and that one way to get a mortal servant under your control is to give him a little vampire blood.

If I wanted to start a mono-Slaanesh army at basic game size, how many Daemonettes do I need? Looking at some pretty good prices, don't have time to invest on figuring it out myself though.

Please and thank you!

>>51139135
The Blood Kiss, as it's termed, doesn't necessarily require the drinking of blood, and the drinking of vampire blood does not necessarily make one a vampire. We know this because of crypt horrors - they drink a fair amount of vampire blood, and turn into monstrosities.

>>51139395
Yeah, they never really went into making vampires in Warhammer. Its implied to require the elixer, but I doubt everyone knows the recipe or that Strigoi can whip it up.

>>51139395
I was thinking that the vampire blood acts differently with humans and ghouls. With humans it creates vampires but ghouls turn into Crypt Horrors due to having degenerated into feral monsters. In both cases, it still has the effect of making something become a lot stronger than it was before.

>>51139461
Nothing ever confirmed this.
But it leads to the question of why the vampire blood shortens their lifespan instead of extending it.

>>51139135
The mechanics of the Blood Kiss are not well-elaborated on. It's discussed some in Night's Dark Masters.

>>51139135
The blood kiss is the most nebulous thing ever, and for good reason. Keeping it on the down low ensures only the best get in.

>>51139575
Unless you're talking about Von Carstein and Lahmians. Then its survival of the cleverest, straight out of VtM.

>>51139635
I always thought with Lahmians it was survival of the bitchiest

>>51139800
Same thing. Knowing when to smile, when to smile and backstab, and when to smile and frontstab.

>>51139488
From what I understand, a full vampire is undead, but a human/ghoul is not. A Crypt Horror is still alive - which is why they are made, they don't face the same problems true undead do, and are stronger than ghouls - but the undead blood that has warped their system is drawing them closer to death, and they only tenuously remain between the two.

>>51139461
I'd agree with this, but ghouls are still technically human. You might be able to argue that there's some physical change that humans can control but Crypt Horrors can't, and that's why vampires are so stringent in choosing who they turn.

But then again, vampires are also sometimes described as turning random people for whimsical reasons, and there's never been anything implied to have needed control with figures like Isabella, who apparently was just dead for a few days before rising again.

Is it just me, or is End Times Nagash an actually decent book?

It added mostly non-retarded units, and had absolutely no stupid bullshit like
>Sigmar possessing Franz
>Elves reuniting
Lizardman spaceships and Draigo
>the entire world being completely destroyed

In addition, ARKHAN THE BLACK in PLASTIC

>>51140917
>Is it just me, or is End Times Nagash an actually decent book?
not just you, that's why people were initially excited for the whole thing

>>51140917
It was a mix of good and bad.

The whole debacle with the sacrifices was a letdown to what was building to be a great story. But the return of Nagash was interesting.

It was pretty bittersweet for TK players to lose independence and Settra all in one book. But it was nice having Neferata back and Arkhan important in the modern sense.
Mannfred fans hated how he became a whiny punkass bitch.

Also the problem of factions being wiped out offscreen was starting to show.

But out of all the ET books, Nagash was the best because there was good things in it. Glottkin was about 70+% shit,Thanquol was beyond salvage even if it would have been hilarious in a non-canon story, and ET: Khaine is the worst thing GW has ever put out in any of their settings both in crunch and fluff. Archaon doesn't even get a mention because its basically "fuck it, and fuck you all, go home" in fluff and crunch.

>>51140917
>Draigo
wait, what?
The grey knight dude?

Speaking of, does anyone know if Arkhan's body can come off the Skeleton Dog Dragon and be used on a Black Knight or similar?

>>51141082
He shows up in Khaine, as the knight in silver armour who speaks strangely and has a machine gun on his arm.

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>>51141082
Yeah. Kaldor Draigo was mentioned in all but name in the event. Eldar were also shown to be in contact with the Slann.

It was just Ward's in-jokes since it was his last hurrah (or so he thought, they rehired him after he lost his job at Blizzard that he only took in the first place when he realized post-GW he has no career).

Draigo can't be killed and has an accent that Araloth doesn't recognize. He helps them by taunting the shit out of Daemons and gets impaled on a tree as I recall. I think they were trying to mix a Monty Python reference with a cameo on that one.

>>51141087
Yeah, he's not even attached to his saddle.

But he has a HUGE fucking cape. I sawed 2/3 of it off for a two-seater conversion with Neferata, but it took some angling to do without cutting the scabbard to his sword since the two are attached.

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>>51141194
I can't post a pic of what I did since my camera sucks and I don't have a setup right now, but you can see how part of the scabbard is attached? I used sprue cutters to clip off the cape at parts so it still looked like it should, just smaller, but had to kind of saw off the part where the cape and sword meet, then filed it round again like it continued as normal. It wasn't too hard, just fiddly.

>>51139135
>one way to get a mortal servant under your control is to give him a little vampire blood.

Is this true in Warhammer, though, or is it just an example of World of Darkness seeping into stuff?

>>51134743
>At least in the Empire, the Knights will pat a state trooper on the back for good work, while in Bret they would probaly roast them alive.

Not necessarily true at all. Many Imperial Knights and Nobles are also aloof assholes, and many Bretonnian Knights consider peasants intrinsically lesser than themselves, but they're not assholes to them. They're technically required and expected to treat peasants well and protect them.

Many don't, though.

>>51141238
The source I read was the Ulrika books, where being bit by a Lahmian vampire produces a euphoria.

Back in the day there was rules for "Bloodswains" where you could take things from other armies as a mindbroken servant in love with your General. Specifically the rules are "Heroes from any other Warhammer armies book, or ravening hordes if the book is not out yet"

>>51141136
>>51141194
Jeez, I guess he really does make it happen.

>>51141276
Which edition is this from?

Does anyone know how the GW corpse cart compares to Mantic zombies? The zombies on the cart look less retardedly proportioned, but I haven't been able to compare them in person yet.

>>51141632
The Bloodswain rule? 6e. Lahmians could take Heroes from any army in the game, and Von Carsteins could take Empire troops.

>>51139395
The Blood Kiss is specifically mentioned as requiring feeding the victim blood in the 6ed Army Book.

>>51141677
They are still heroic scale, but not as bad. I've never seen a Mantic zombie in real life but based on pics it shouldn't look that bad unless you've got a really fine eye.

Like, if you don't feel like 4e models look out of place alongside 8e models, the CC and Mantic should look fine.

>>51141632
6e. In 6e every army had alternative armies inside the book. For example for Dwarfs you could make Slayers core, but had gimped selection from most other things.

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http://spawningofbob. bl og sp ot.com/

These are cute comics, but I'm too lazy to post them.

>>51141276
Just Lahmians, or does it say if/which other bloodlines have pleasant feeling bites.

>>51141821
They probably changed it when they thought of the Crypt Horrors idea then. Otherwise, I dunno.

>>51142107
It doesn't say Lahmians specifically, but they are Lahmians and produce that effect.

They go on at length a few times about how every bloodline has neat powers that they get, and when vampires have sex they bite each other and share blood causing them to gain each other's bloodline powers which they pass onto their "offspring". But that the Von Carsteins and Lahmians look down on you for it because they put great stock in bloodlines and purity and other nobility things like that.

Later in the book the madam of Nuln's brothel shows up. Low ranking Lahmian who had a Strigoi lover and now she can shapeshift into animals because of it.

>>51142654
Thank god those books aren't canon. Imagine a Lamian slut who banged a vampire of every bloodline. Literally unkillable.

>>51142738
I'd read that book just to see how she managed to seduce every kind of vampire. Getting a Strigoi to do more than RIP AND TEAR sounds hard enough, imagine trying to get a Necrarch to put down his books.

>>51141276
>where being bit by a Lahmian vampire produces a euphoria.
Yeah, but that's pretty far from feeding on the blood, no? Could be some kind of glamour.

>>51142654
>They go on at length a few times about how every bloodline has neat powers that they get, and when vampires have sex they bite each other and share blood causing them to gain each other's bloodline powers which they pass onto their "offspring".

That's fucking retarded. If that was true, basically all vampires would be some kind of mix, because originally, there were an extremely few number of them, and this sounds ridiculously beneficial to all involved, regardless of what the leaders of the Lahmians or the Carsteins (before they were Carsteins) thought about it.

This just sounds like World of Darkness-style Vampire-masturbation fanfic.

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How is it that Ogres can travel pretty much all over the world to fight in just about every army as mercenaries? Most human mercenaries seem to stick to the Old World, and they have boats and maps and carts. The Ogres start out far from anywhere in the mountains, and have to blunder their way across more mountains, rivers, and seas, and through various factions and wandering monsters, just to get to wherever they end up.

>>51144354
They are not very smart

(Insert man wandering into hell picture)

>>51144354
Because Ogres will work for whoever pays and feeds them, they are extreme survivable, they are extremely employable, they can make complete use of all of those things (boats, maps, etc.) through their human employers/employees.

Basically, an employed Ogre has every benefit of being a human mercenary, with none of the costs.

Well... Perhaps bar being hated by some people who've lost kin to Ogres.
Anyone know if the Cult of Sigmar has an official stance on Ogres other than "they're barbarous cannibals, but at least they don't worship Chaos... probably"

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>>51144464
>Anyone know if the Cult of Sigmar has an official stance on Ogres other than "they're barbarous cannibals, but at least they don't worship Chaos... probably"

Probably not. Most in the Cult of Sigmar probably have extremely little exposure to anything other than Imperial Ogres, and I think that they're fine with those in the same way they're fine with halflings. As in, they're not humans, but they're pretty alright, even if they're misshapen and misguided.

I doubt there's any official stance beyond that, really. If you're angling for some kind of Sigmarite Ogre-Priest, I think that would be out of the question. There could probably be a Warrior Priest with a devout ogre sidekick, though.

"Smash this heretic, Freg. Sigmar would want you to."

>>51139135
When does that happen?

>>51144354
They have more than one incentive in being nomadic
it's only natural that they end up travelling farther

>>51142738
They are cannon to the Gotrek and Felix books, though.

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>>51144464
>>51144767
How old does ogres get, anyway? The fact that they have a hunger-induced wanderlust and a weak intellect isn't the only things in the equation here.

It takes time to travel, especially if you're a fatass ogre on foot that needs to eat all the time, let alone a herd of them.

>>51144588
>Sigmarite Ogre-Priest
Please Anon, I'm not THAT retarded

>>51144392
They seem a lot smarter than Orks, though.

>>51144865
>How old does ogres get, anyway?
As far as I know, no Ogre has ever died of old age.
Given they were created by the Old Ones as the ultimate chaos-killing machine, I imagine they'd want them to last a LONG time though. So they can probably get just as old as Dwarfs.

>>51144877
They're a bit slow, but Ogres by and large are by no means morons.
They've merely never had an incentive to have to learn, other than in short spurts of ingenuity.

When you can solve every problem that comes your way with your club, why bother creating more advanced tools?

Anyone that has WFRP3:s "Hero's Call"? It's not on the MEGA link. I don't play WFRP3, obviously, but I'd still like to have all the books, if possible.

>>51137690
I wonder how much it would take to recollect every little fact, name and detail about the warhammer universe into a compendium.

>>51144893
Humans has the motivation of going through insane lengths to impress potential mates and achieving increased security.

>>51144882
But that's true for the Halflings, too, and they don't live nearly as long as dwarfs.

>>51144906
I feel it would be best to spread it out over several compendiums on different topics.

>>51144255
Blood sharing has a minimal effect, but it canonically does have one.

The bloodlines were all one at one point, anyway.

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>>51144893
>They're a bit slow, but Ogres by and large are by no means morons.

I dunno. I think "moron" is pretty much how I'd describe the species. Not necessarily functionally retarded, but basically everything I know about ogres leads me to believe that they are overgrown children with ADHD.

So childlike intelligence, a short attention span, but capable of coming up with shit, just not very persistent in getting it done.

>>51145000
>Blood sharing has a minimal effect, but it canonically does have one.
What "minimal" effect does it have, and where is it made canon?

>The bloodlines were all one at one point, anyway.
When? Is this from very early or obscure fluff?

>>51145000
All the bloodlines share the same elixir that Neferata made, but they are not really tied to eachother like the vampires in a bloodline is.

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>>51142107
Carstein definitely do it. Ulrika is bitten by a strigoi and describes it as agonizing, however.

>>51142738
You don't gain your lovers' powers, and your Spawn probably won't gain many or most either. Some of this seems to be pure conceit: Ulrika's willfulness and the brothel madme's crassness are blamed on mud blood sires. The madme can take a wolf form, which is rare for Lahmians, however. Night's Dark Masters supports mixed blood power inheritance at about a 50/50 rate with 'modern' get, who are far less pure than in the past.

>>51144205
Been fed on by a Lahmian is literally better than sex and about as addictive as heroin. Prey will literally encourage you to drink until they die.

>>51145027
Genevieve Undead, Ulrika, Night's Dark Masters. 'Minimal' seems to be a manifestation of 1 atypical power for every typical one. Weaknesses seem more bloodline-bound, in that DMs are encouraged to use 'typical' weaknesses for a bloodline, but may still roll randomly or just choose.

>>51145138
>Night's Dark Masters
That's the only one I've read and got access to, but I don't remember anything like that. Any idea where it's supposed to be in the book? It seems like a fairly specific thing.

>>51145138
None of these books are canon. If you are playing normal Warhammer, "blood mixing" has no effect.

>>51145346
Look up the Blood Gifts rules in the create a vampire section.

>>51145356
Sorry, you want the Age of Sigmar thread, kiddo. Welcome to 4chan, by the way.

>>51145372
Genevieve and Ulrika haven't been canon for a while, similar to Drachenfels, and Green Ronin books aren't canon.

>>51145454
>Genevieve and Ulrika haven't been canon for a while
Why?

>>51145454
>wfrp isn't canon

Once you filter out WFRP, BL and old books, the only thing that remains canon are the 8th edition army books and the End Tim- oh. I see what's going on here.

>>51145494
Black Library is canon, as are old books. WFRP past 1st edition is not.

>>51145508
Nah

>>51145508
>WFRP past 1st edition is not.
But why?

>>51145508
WFRP 2e was published by Black Industries. BI was an in-house subsidiary of GW like BL.

>>51145483
Genevieve is owned by her author, so is as canon as Malal, though I'm pretty sure Ulrika is canon.

>>51145523
>>51145534
>>51145537
The guy is mistaken, NONE of WFRP is canon, as none of it was made by GW or BL staff.

>>51145454
I'm pretty sure that Ulrika made an apperance during one of the End Times books.

>>51145552
Wrong, all WFRP 2e lore was made with intense GW oversight and last-word rights on anything made up for the rpg.

>>51145569
She did. So did Genevieve and Drachenfels. This guy is probably that AoS troll that tries to derail WFRP general.

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>>51145552
BI was an imprint of BL. They were literally working in GW HQ.

Which is not even mentioning first edition.

>>51145598
When did Gene and Drachenfels show up? By name references only, nameless characters don't count.

>>51145615
Wrong.

>>51145651
So they didn't show up? I don't see their names, just characters similar to them.

>>51145660
Concession accepted.

>>51145688
Admit it, while GW wishes they could have put them in they can't, and as such the characters in the book are not them, as GW could be sued if they were in fact Genevieve and Drachenfels.

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>>51145598
>This guy is probably that AoS troll that tries to derail WFRP general.

Yeah, that was my first thought, too. Same style and same canon canon canon autism.

>>51145357
>Look up the Blood Gifts rules in the create a vampire section.
Read through the section and couldn't find anything on vampires gaining powers of other bloodlines by sharing blood, nor anything about them once being the same bloodline.

The closest thing I could find was "Vampires of particular bloodlines are more likely to gain some Blood Gifts over others, but the lines have been muddied since the time of the first seven Vampires, and thus, traits of different lines have a tendency to manifest in unexpected places." which is one hell of a stretch to interpret in such a specific way.

I just realized that the town of Ubersreik (featured in Vermintide) is the same town of Ubersreik featured in WHFRP 3e.

Castle Drachenfels was kind of obvious though, and a bit of a letdown.

>>51145734
>GW could be sued if they were in fact Genevieve and Drachenfels.

What? Why? Is this some Malal type deal?

>>51145918
Yep, owned by the author.

>>51145918
I think Genevieve belongs to Kim Newman, theres a called Genevieve Dieudonné in his Anno Dracula books too.

>>51145875
>Read through the section and couldn't find anything on vampires gaining powers of other bloodlines by sharing blood, nor anything about them once being the same bloodline.

Oh, no, I was saying that sharing blood DOESN'T share powers, but it does leave the other vampire's blood in you so that your gets can inherit some of their powers. Lines get "muddied" in the first place by vampire sex, which is basically just mutually consensual feeding (though strigoi often take by force). This comes up in the second Ulrika book, too, when a Carstein seduces her.

>>51145916
>(featured in Vermintide)
>featured in WHFRP 3e

It was also featured much earlier, in WFRP2. It's mentioned in Sigmar's Heirs (pg. 83-84). It's called Übersreik, which was apparently too confusing the the plebian masses, and it's one of the most important towns in the foothills of the Grey Mountains, with a population of 3,500 tax-paying households.

Representatives of the dwarven clans are on the town council, which is fairly unique, to help work out potential mining disputes.

Given that it's mostly made out of stone (thanks to dorfs) and that the stout walls of the city connects to the great fortress of Black Rock, home of the von Jungfreud family and one of the Empire’s main defences against Bretonnia, it's weird as shit that Vermintide hasn't gone there.

>>51144656
If you are stomping the Vampire Counts into the ground, Mannfred will offer a few drops of his blood or a treasure from his vaults when he tries to make a peace treaty with you.

The Vampire Counts also have an event where a servant is getting rebellious and you can either "give him a taste of immortality" (give him a tiny vial of blood) or snap his neck.

>>51142738
What makes you think they aren't canon?

>>51139335
This depends very much on the edition, and whether you're playing a Daemonic Legion or a Hordes of Chaos list.

For Hordes of Chaos you can probably get by with only 18-30 Daemonettes if you wanted a single unit, twice that for multiple, since the bulk of your army is going to include mortals and at "basic game size" (2,000 - 2,500 points) they'll run you a modest amount of points (modest insofar as compared to Chaos Warriors and such). You don't need especially many units of Daemons, but you should keep in mind the need for Marauders and Warriors and such.

In a Daemonic Legion, 7th or 8th Edition very much changes the game plan. In 7th MSU was still a viable plan and so - while you'd have multiple of them - your small units are probably going to amount to something in the 50-90 range for total models (since they're going to represent the majority of your Core choices, as well as be necessary for if you convert Chariots or the like). In 8th edition you're going to be using a lot of big units and a lot of models' individual point prices went down, so I'd I'm towards 70+.

Mind, this assumes "basic game size" as in "Lords + Heroes" in pre-8E. If you didn't mind an absence of Lord Choices, I'd strongly suggest starting with a Warband (200-500 point list) or generic smaller-game army size (1250 - 1500) since both are much easier on the wallet yet still solid games. 6E Warband games are fairly fun if you can get a group together (as well as cheap, being above Skirmish / Mordheim in price but well below even a 1000pt army while leaving you room for customization), but 1250-1500 might be easier to find games for at the LHS or GW or such.

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So this has always bugged me.

How do you guys deal with putting characters in your units? Or adjusting unit sizes?

I've always found I have to build my regiments very carefully in order to make sure they all line up. Adding a dramatically posed character can be impossible. Do you just put him next to the unit or something?

Speaking of, is the standard 100x80mm movement tray a good unit size for most regiments? I feel like units of 20 say, skeletons or zombies is good. But 12 Orcs seems a little small.

>>51145072
The thing that bit her wasn't a Strigoi, it was a Vargheist.

>>51145454
The Ulrika books are recent, tardo.

>>51145970
Ulrika had a model.

Your point is invalid.

>>51146918
8e and T9A are played in my community.

>>51147155
Putting a character on a piece of cork "rock", standing on a barrel, a dragon skull, and so on.

I vary model height using cork throughout the unit anyway so I have wiggle room.

>>51147155

Skaven heroes usually line up pretty easily with the others, my main problems is lining up the random troops, since the older edition ones are impossible to put into rank-and-file (due to tails)

>>51147314
I wasn't talking about Ulrika, what are you on about son?

>>51147745
I read the post wrong, sorry.

>>51148020
No worries Anon it happens.

I'm back in one of my 'Holy Fuck I love Fantasy' moods. Does anyone know if there is much interest in older editions, namely 6th? (lets not count Oldhammer, that's a different thing entirely). There doesn't seem to be much of a scene where for much (Well any wargaming really) where I am currently.

>>51148100

I love 6th. Its the best edition by far.

Sigh, but yeah, hard to find games.

Which region of the Empire is the most religious or pious?

>>51148220
Middenland, I think

>>51148100
You'll have to start it. The three longbeards at my flgs play whatever, two others only play kings of war, 8, and 9.

>>51148220
Ostlanders are probably the most rabidly Sigmarite.
Stirlanders are the most superstitious.

>>51148220
Middenheim

But only to the true godfather of the empire

Is there a symbol for Altdorf? It would make sense that there was some kind of heraldry for Altdorf, distinct from Reikland, the same way there are for most of the large, major cities, but I can't find anything.

>>51149083
Off the top of my head Altdorfs colours are blue and red/maroon whereas Reiklands is Cream/white.

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>>51149083

>>51149563
Goddamn, fucking saved. Thanks, anon.

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>>51149563

>>51144255
You're still going to mostly be yourself, not whatever vampire you had a quick sippy on. And you don't get your partner's powers, but your spawn might.

And yes, despite the conceit of vampires, most are some degree of mongrel. It's one reason newer vampires are looked down upon.

>>51147155
>put to the side
>remove enough models for the character to fit comfortably and pretend the models are still there for rules purposes

>I feel like units of 20 say, skeletons or zombies is good. But 12 Orcs seems a little small.
remember that if you leave the rear of movement trays open you can always use them as 2 halves of a larger tray.

if you expect to play with both regiments having small bases and slightly larger ones (like skeletons and orcs respectively), I would recommend to have 100x125 movement trays so you can use them with the 100mm front for your small base units and the side of 125mm as the front for your larger units

if the tray end up being too small for one or 2 additional ranks, don't worry, moving them without the tray behind the main unit won't be complex or time consuming and casualties happen fast

>>51150291
Yeah. Like most things in Warhammer, people being retarded assholes is the explanation.

>>51151465
That's often how things works in the world as well. Assholes gets ahead in life because they are not full of doubt.

>>51151493
Not fun writing though, unless you reserve it for designated asshole characters.

ERB JRR Tolkien VS RR Martin comes to mind.

>>51151842
Robert E. Howard blow them both out of the water.

>>51151874
I don't think I can love Conan anywhere near as much as Bilbo.

Call it nostalgia, but The Hobbit is my ideal comfy read.

>>51151911
I can see why you would think so. It's a good story. I just think Hyboria is a more exiting setting than Middle Earth.

>>51151957
Oh, absolutely. Its amazingly rich, and the parallels with real life are entertaining rather than lazy.

Would it take a lot do change the entirety of Paths of the Damned to take place in Altdorf?

>>51112836
Godslayer

Gotrek and Felix make their way through the Badlands to Cathay as part of a caravan like Reikland Marco Polos. They adventure in Cathay and meet weird people from exotic cultures where the worship of Tzeentch is part of the state religion led by the ruler of Cathay, the Immortal Dragon Emperor. They fight Hung trying to get through the great bastion, a few chaos quilen, and finally Gotrek kills the golden dragon shapeshifter ruling the country and they flee south and west to Ind.

>>51154199
>tips slayer mohawk

Did Belegar ever have ghosts on the tabletop? He has them in TWW.

>>51144938
>potential mates

Usually seem to mate with the tyrant, who only needs to continually prove his strength.

>increased security
As long as ogres have food, they barely have to worry about anything. They're nomadic by nature and don't build huge defenses, and are amazingly survivable. Very little wants to fuck with them.

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>>51154199
Elfslayer Part II.

Gotrek meets Tyrion.

The battle lasts 400 pages, begins in Altdorf and ends in the Chaos Wastes after spanning the world.

Other than Felix, there were no survivors.

>>51112836
Why couldn't they fluff the Chaos Gods as being amazingly powerful, but not being able to interact with the mortal world strongly enough to cause any long-lasting effects?

I know they need to be a threat, but just having them win because they're powerful feels stupid - even if their power is immense, it should be limited somehow like the other gods are.

I like how TES fluffs the daedric princes as being very powerful and active, but being unable to create or even necessarily destroy, only influence.

>>51154986
What you describe is pretty much exactly chaos gods. They only influende.

>>51154986
Chaos gods can't step i to the mortal plane. That's why they instead wants to engulf the world in their realm so that they can use it as a disposable plaything.

>>51148220
Depends on the religion and the gods.

I believe Wissenland would actually count, because they're almost constantly saying prayers to gods.

New thread
>>51157523
>>51157523
>>51157523

>>51118151
>>51117293
Because the setting is huge and has years of work behind it. Part of the appeal of warhammer as a setting was that there was very real thought put into everything and a sense of age and progress. Every faction was up in every faction's business and had a reason for it. There were different cultures within cultures. It scratched both the itch of high fantasy adventure with and appealing edge of gritty, muddy old shit, while most gritty fantasy only goes with the latter.

It isn't a setting above having just straight up evil villains who are evil not because it's "realistic" or because they're actually tragic but because they want UNLIMITED POWAH. But you also had the assholes that were just realistic assholes or tragic figures.

It was a deep and complex fantasy setting that didn't get so pretentious it forgot it was fantasy and was therefore OK to feel like fantasy.

And then they blew it up, shat all over the aesthetic design and created a setting with no real feeling of history or interlocking factions or cultures in it's place.