Warhammer 40,000 general

The children of Commoragh strike first!

First for space sharks! I'm looking for as many beaky heads as I can find. What kits come with them, and how can I hunt for a bucket load of them? Recasting them myself is an option, but timely and costly.

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>>51102882
I WANT TO PURGE THE FILTHY COMMORITES, WITH ME BROTHERS!

How's my list for EXECUTING XENOS:


Black Spear Strike Force 1000 Points
Core:
Veterans (255)
Black Shield, Heavy Thunder Hammer
Veteran, Lightning Claw, Storm Shield
Veteran, Chainsword, Deathwatch Shotgun
Veteran, Chainsword, Meltagun
Veteran, Chainsword, Meltagun
Razorback, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

Veterans (180)
Veteran with Heavy Weapon, Chainsword, Missile Launcher
Veteran with Heavy Weapon, Chainsword, Missile Launcher
Veteran with Heavy Weapon, Chainsword, Missile Launcher
Veteran with Heavy Weapon, Chainsword, Missile Launcher
Watch Sergeant, Boltgun, Storm Shield

Veterans (275)
Black Shield, Power Fist, Storm Shield
Veteran, Chainsword, Storm Bolter
Veteran, Chainsword, Storm Bolter
Veteran with Heavy Weapon, Chainsword, Deathwatch Frag Cannon
Veteran with Heavy Weapon, Chainsword, Deathwatch Frag Cannon
Razorback, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

Aux (145)
Venerable Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Power Fist, Heavy Flamer

Command (145)
Watch Captain Artemis

>>51102892
Doesnt FW do beakie kits?

>>51102892
recasting or forgeworld are your only real options

>>51102892
sorry friend, i purged ebay of beaks for my raven guard last month

>>51102892
The tactical box comes with like six of them, recast or use bare heads to fill up the rest of the squad.

>>51102901
IT NEEDS BETTER FORMATTING BROTHER

>>51102901
>storm bolter
don't ever give a deathwatch marine a stormbolter

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I was the guy who asked about GSC in the last thread, thank you all for the replies. Would the Deathwatch board game be the best purchase for starting a GSC army?

>>51102892
FW Mk VI kits, but get them from China.

>>51102901
A) unless you're playing against wysiwyg shitlers, bolter/missile launcher is legal. (swap CCW for bolter)

B) you are mixing weapons. NEVER MIX WEAPONS. give each squad a job, and equip them to do that job and do it well.

C) your razorbacks are not for transportation, they are one of your cheapest sources of anti-tank with actual range, use accordingly.

D) take a dread instead of artemis for command, cheaper, and vastly more effective.

>>51102901
Its a true shame that Dreadaughts cant have DW-fragcannons. They would rock with them.

>>51102954
Yeah, you get less options than the full boxes, but it's great for cheap bodies for starting your army.

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What is the viability for casual play on these guys?

I know bikes are better in every way, but can they work at all?

This thread's topic. Pick a faction from the list and post your ideas.

How do we fix:
>Dark Eldar
>Tyranids
>Orks
>Grey Knights
>Blood Angels

>>51102954
Yes but get another player that wants deathwatch so you can get two sets of GSC

>>51102970
They Rock with night Lords, Emperor's children alpha legion and world bearers.

>>51102954
It isn't bad, but the regular neophyte kit is one of the most baller kits GW has released in a long time

>comes with ten autoguns
>and ten shot guns
>all the heavy weapons
>lots of different heads
>all the power weapons

>>51102970
Black Legion Raptor Talon or Night Lords CAD are your best bets. Death Guard should also do okay.

>>51102971
Nid medium and big bugs should be able to either join or LOS wounds onto gant blobs.

>>51102971
Grey Knights:

minor points drop per model on terminators, heavier drop on strikes.

some method of allowing assault from deep strike on a limited basis with disordered charge. possibly only when using GoI.

the real problem grey knights have is lack of reasonable and reliable anti-armor, and the fact they are slow once they make use of deep strike.

terminators as troops is nice, but unless they get a serious points drop for what they are now or terminators just get better somehow (either +1 w or +1 t under current system) they'll continue to have problems. the largest challenge as a grey knight player is how few wounds you have for points invested, and the proliferation of AP2 is noticeable.

>>51103003
Is raptor talon black legion only? I don't have the new book yet.

>>51103002
Oh what, really? I could have used all that shit for my Guardsmen. I gotta start getting those kits.

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Which army has the most autistic players?

>>51102871
Rules when?

>>51102952
>never stormbolter
Why? I want to shoot bolter shots and then charge.

>>51102959
>mixing weapons
No I'm not, I've got a close combat squad which is running meltaguns (assault weapons) so they can pop transports and charge the occupants, then the black shield gets angry and swings the heavy thunder hammer a lot.

I've got a missile launcher squad with a stormshield serg to stand infront and get shot a bunch

Then I've got a squad with doubling down on frag cannons (which are assault weapons) and storm bolters (which are assault weapons) so these guys can charge and then the black shield gets angry and swings his fist around a lot

The dreadnought is on anti-horde/anti-light armour duty with the assault cannon and the heavy flamer fits in with the anti horde.

>use razorbacks as lascannon or plascannon platforms
Yeah, I could go with that

>Drop artemis
Yeah, he's in the start collecting box, I'll probably just use him as a sarge or a blackshield or something. I do like his strength D weapon though, was thinking he could sit with the power fist and charge something huge for glory.

>>51103020
Whole 40k-line.

Were all auspies here. You are. I am. Carnac is. We cant help it. Embrace it.

>>51102892
... Aren't they know more for their use of Mk IV armour?

>>51103020
tau

>>51103020
Probably Space Marines just by virtue of having the most players.

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>>51102971
>Blood Angels
fix the assault phase

or give up and give them access to grav weapons, skyhammer, etc

>>51103019
some of the bits are a little genestealery but it can work

>>51103036
Stormbolter lacks special ammos. If want to charge, give your veterans Boltguns/Shotguns. You can have both.

>>51102971
>Orks
+1W for all non-gretchin models and allow charge after disembarking. New detachments with extra heavy support slots.

>>51103036
>Why? I want to shoot bolter shots and then charge.
iirc special ammo doesn't work with storm bolters

>>51102971
Councilling and hook them up with a nice partner who is into their weird kinks?

>>51103071
>charge after disembarking

Aren't most Ork vehicles open topped anyway?

>>51103053
>Blood Angels

Whats wrong with plasmabacks, supercharged land raiders, assault cannon spam, and death company facerape?

>>51103044
Mark V.

>>51102971
Mostly fix the assault phase and then everything falls into place fairly quick.

>Dark Eldar
Diversify their ranged options--why are the oldest race with near immortality limited to only splinter?
Fix wyches, fix mandrakes, like seriously fix mandrakes, fix hellions too while we're at it.

>Nids
Fix the assault phase so there are HQ options besides flyrants
Buff tervigons, buff carnifexes
Consider giving some bugs invuls, give the bigger gribblies some FNP and more wounds

>Orks
Fix the assault phase, fix mob rule

>Grey Knights
Lower the cost of GK terminators and GK in general, paying more than 12 points for 4 4 4 4 4 won't be viable as long as the metric for viable is ITC capture and control a bunch of objectives

>Blood Angels
Fix the assault phase

>>51103036
stormbolters do not get specialist ammunition, which is what you are paying 5 points per model for over regular marines (along with an additional base attack)

you are spending more than you need to for a squad to do each job. in the case of the first squad, you have 2 meltaguns, which are incredibly short ranged weapons, and plan to charge the occupants of something you shoot, however you seem to have given no thought to the fact you must get there first. razorbacks are AV 11 and die to any kind of reasonable mid-strength weaponry, the only other option you have is deep strike, from which you cannot charge.

if you wish to make an assault squad that has an actual chance of reaching that assault, load for bear with the entire squad (power weapons across the board) stick them in a blackstar, and bring it on using hover mode so they don't die when it gets shot to ribbons.

I guess the better way to put it is "never mix shooting upgrades and assault upgrades" as if you spend points trying to get a squad doing both, it isn't earning the points spent on shooting when it's fighting, and vice versa.

overall deathwatch isn't a great melee army, and I would advise against trying to do that with it. simply leverage the fact you have specialist ammunition and very effective special/heavy weapon choices, acquire drop pods and shoot before you get shot back.

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the dark reapers are probably really useful with everyone loving jink saves and bikes right? or should i be adding in some D cannons or shadow weavers to be knocking out special weapons?

>>51103109
Ah. Thought it was MkIV. Makes since. If BaC came with chainsword like BoP does I'd advise buying that and converting to make the army.

>>51103105
disordered charge
overwatch
counterattacks
abundance of ap2 and ap3
lack of grav spam
lack of rerollable 2+

>>51102971
>Orks
Halve cost of all shooty units that aren't flash gitz, tankbustas or lootas
make boyz strength 4 base
make orkanauts super heavy
make tank bustas ap2 against vehicles
Flashgits ap should be ap:d3 to justify points
Give lootas rending

Jobs a good 'un

>>51103015
A lot of the traitor legions can use it, it's just BL can deepstrike starting turn 1, warlord gets guaranteed arrival if you want, and raptor talon lets you assault out of deep strike. Book is in the mega if you want to look.

>>51103142
dark reapers are point for point the most effective anti-air unit the eldar have, and will make ravenwing cry tears of blood with starshots. You might not see them in super top end lists, but if you're trying to build a semi-reasonable take all comers type list then one squad is entirely worth the investment.

>>51103071
Fucking damn, +1 wounds is actually a good idea, maybe increase cost of boyz by like, 2 in response?

What're people's opinions on Imperial Knights? Cheesy or balanced for their point value? I remember that I didn't like the idea of super-heavies becoming standard fare but it seems like it's the nature of the game now.

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Dear Games Workshop,

All I want for 8th edition is for Walkers to be significantly better than Monstrous Creatures, so I can eat the tears of Eldar and Tau players, who defended that their Walkers should be MCs.

Love,
Dracul De Vrees (Night Lords Dreadnought)

>>51103015
Everyone can take a Raptor talon, but Night Lords can use it as a core detachment instead of a Chaos Warband.

>>51102954
go halfs with someone who wants a deathwatch group and its great - otherwise nah; you're spending money on models you dont want

>>51103185
depends on the game. if you're expecting one and aren't orks, harlequins, tyranids or tempestus you can deal with the problem alright, but it does take a decent effort to down one.

ultimately I'd say they're fairly costed, except for the pure shooting version which could stand for a minor increase as it does not have to expose itself to the same threat of being bracketed that melee+ranged knights have

>>51103200
Fuck you asshole. Just make Tau suits into Walkers like they're supposed to be.

Sincerely,
Tyranid players everywhere.

>>51103200
FUCKING THIS.
either this or make every unit that 'has some dude (or essence of dude) inside a bigger dude' a dreadnaught

>>51103209
>Night Lords can use it as a core detachment instead of a Chaos Warband.
sounds like I will have to read the rules on this then

I really really want relentless raptors, but I also don't want some bullshit tax decurion. Turn one deep strike would also be cool, but I am almost certain that requires some tax decurion. No way that we would just get it like how space marines can do it.

>>51103185
Too big for 40k's scale, like pretty much everything bigger than a 'Fex. The biggest issue with them is the D/Stomp rules being retarded, followed by the ability to make an army of nothing but Knights. One Knight per 1,000 points is okay (assuming no retarded FW variants), but pure Knights results in really, really shitty games.

>>51103185
taking a lot is cheesy but they're well balanced. the problem becomes they're too easy to add into any army and now all the super heavies are rated against them. the "proper" lords are now all overpriced or terrible by comparison. you also get the odd case of anything that size is a lord of war or should be, i'm looking at you gorkanaut. i've only seen it once (i don't play much) but it didn't do much besides bother my flamers of tzeentch

>>51103200
>immobilized results changed to -1 movement speed and charges
>all walkers ignore shaken/stunned

idk if this would help much and now i want to go dig out my 4th BRB to check the walker rules

>>51103247
Man, the idea that people like you with strong opinions about things you know nothing about can vote is absolutely terrifying.

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mfw
Chaos slaves, try to take over Cadia.

Can someone post stompas?
I want insperation.
Bonus points for scratch built or kustum onez

>>51103276
csm got shat on for so long and got four supplements that were garbage

I know people say this new one is good but I am skeptical

>>51103200
Monstrous Creatures now have a chart they roll on like vehicles do for damage.
Gargantuans would ignore everything but the Explodes! equivalent like super-heavy vehicles do.
Does this fix MCs?

>>51103148
BaC comes with actual swords instead of Chainswords, though the Sergeant can get a Chainsword or Power Sword.

>>51103302
>BaC comes with actual swords

Combat Knives.

>>51103128
>fix the assault phase
im not sure exactly what is wrong with it?

>>51102971
>Orkz
Add more upgrades and make everything cheeper. Possibly random armor upgrades, for lulz?

>>51103262
>>51103265
Hm well I only wanted to take one if I ever do. Should be fine if the day comes.

>>51103200
i dunno what you're talking about, skitarii walkers are amazing; maybe dreads just suck balls?

>>51103311
the game is all about the shooting phase currently

>>51103297
Monstrous Creatures that aren't in Codex Tau are fine.

>>51103297
It ruins all the MC's that aren't riptides and stormsurges.

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>>51103306
Anon, there are actual combat knife models, they aren't as large as chainswords.

>>51103330
so fix the shooting phase?

>>51103200

There might need to be a couple of good rules for different types. Seems like we have heavy walkers which are just vehicles and hang around the rear line, scout walkers which are just light platforms for a gun and infiltrate around the sides, and walkers made for mixing it up with the rest of the troops in the middle.

So far, walkers like the Onager are fine since they are just tanks but with legs instead of wheels or tracks. Scout Walkers like the Sentinel and Ironstrider are fine for running around the side and headhunting. Then we have the close-combat walkers meant to mix it up with the rest of the army, and these are the ones that need work.

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>>51103071
>Charge after disembarking
You don't play Orks do you?

>>51103311
Disordered charge rules are terrible, charging two units right next to each other shouldn't rob you of charge bonuses.

No sweeping advance into combat is dumb.

Overwatch should be redesigned to work like 2e, including having firing arcs.

Weapon Skill mechanics need a complete redesign.

I just realized I have an unopened Lemun Russ and a shitload of unassembled guardsman and stuff. How would I go about converting this to Genestealer Cults?

>>51103358
you say that, but the skitarii dragoon is a very good anti-vehicle close combat walker, that can get to the other lines very fast (dunestrider), and gets a nice survival invun bonus

>>51103311
>what's wrong with it?

spotted the tau. it's not so much it's terrible (i play daemons, i live and die by assault) but shooting has a lot more advantages from night fighting not limiting range any more, random distance, overwatch, and easy ways to boost BS. units that get to assault from deepstrike or reserves are fewer.

there's also how anything that gets assault from reserves is instantly powerful or OP

>>51103384
Buy a box of genestealers

>>51103181
>point for point the most effective anti-air unit the eldar have
Nope, that'd be Swooping Hawks. A 96 point unit of 6 Hawks (say 106 or even 121 with a kitted out Exarch) deals an average of 5 hull points to ANY flyer (vehicle) per turn while still being able to fire their guns at other targets.

In order to deal 5 HP per turn to an AV10 Flyer (so best circumstances possible for them) with Reapers you'd need roughly 21 of them firing Starshot Missiles (672pts), and and roughly 50 of them firing Starswarm Missiles (1250pts). I think you might have confused the Starshot missiles they have access to for Starhawk missiles which are only on the Eldar Missile Launcher. You could take Exarchs with EMLs, but even then Hawks are still more efficient vs vehicle flyers, and Crimson Hunters are more efficient vs FMCs.

You're right about making bikers cry though, and they have utility, but they're definitely not AA.

>>51103377
most disordered charge stuff is negated by grenades, sweeping advance needs a rework - its too all or nothing, and im not sure firing arcs makes sense with overwatch? this ain't old fantasy

>>51103384
Neophyte Hybrid Squad boxes (the Squad part is important, there are also Neophyte Hybrid boxes but these are not the same thing). They come with a conversion sprue that lets you replace Guardsmen heads with genestealer hybrid heads and has cult symbols you can bolt to your vehicles and such.

>>51103384

Paint it purple

>>51103399
Actually I made a mistake, those Hawks only deal slightly less than 3 HP per turn, so Reapers are a bit better by comparison.

>>51102971
Deldar:
>allow disembarking after transports going cruising speed without any penalties
>Any shooting against a unit that moved over 9'' in previous turn gets -1 to BS, if BS drops to 0 the shots are snapshots instead

Tyranids
>removed from the game/made into native race that went from 0 to hero in no time and has devoured huge swathes from the galactic north fringes while other races fought Abby/tau/necrons/orks/anything else
>cut point costs on medium and big creatures and upgrades
>speedboost to hormagaunts and their bigger versions
>rework synapse to either only minor buffs and no drawbacks or huge buffs with serious drawbacks

Orks
>Improve wargear options and point costs
>Fix mob rule
>give them serious discounts on things that have drawbacks and/or give boost to those things to compensate drawbacks. Orks should have wild swings in power (IMO).

Grey Knights
>shift power budget from killing/fucking over daemons to something else, can't have a cake and eat it too.
>cool formations

Blood angels
>rolled into SM codex with black templars.
>Supplement support for their special things just like all the other chapters in C:SM.

>>51103418
>most disordered charge stuff is negated by grenades
Grenades have zero interaction with disordered charges, do you even read the rules?

Sweeping Advance should just allow you to immediately charge the next closest unit if you wipe the unit with it, as you use the fleeing enemies to screen your approach and roll the momentum further into their lines.

>>51103391
I mean I'm not a tau player, i play skitarii/inquisition so i do have a choppy element to my armies, and its usually my ace - an assault inquisition group is crazy powerful once you get in their face with a landraider - sweeping advance makes all the difference

>>51102971
For most of those, the bigger issue is reigning in the power creep (especially for shooting weapons) that has infested the higher tier codexes and fixing core rules issues. Tone down the high-RoF-medium-Strength weapons of the Tau and Eldar, gut Grav, make Overwatch less severe, stop wound allocation from costing assault armies several inches a turn, let units charge out of stationary transports again, reduce the variance in charge ranges, etc. Fearless and ATSKNF need penalties for losing combats. Ignores Cover and the absurd cover saves available to some armies need toned down.

Dark Eldar and Orks both need kabal/klan detachment rules. Tyranids need a couple FBD/DoF's to represent various stages of invasion.

Dark Eldar need Wyches and Mandrakes unfucked, and need some special characters added back in (or a bigger list of Relics/wargear that do different things). Dark Eldar also need all of their leadership stuff to stop fizzling against ATSKNF.

Tyranids need some means of preventing mid-size bugs from getting splatted so easily. They need their biomorphs returned and done by someone whose head isn't firmly lodged up his own ass.

Orks need access to Invulns, minor points adjustments, and the Morka/Gorkanaut made into SHW. Mob rule needs to be more of a benefit than a hindrance.

Grey Knights and Blood Angels should be mostly fine with the first paragraph taken care of.

>>51103020
Chaos Marines.
T. Chaos player

>>51103441
It shouldn't go that far, deathstars are already bad enough.

>>51103440
>Orks
>Improve wargear options and point costs

the problem with the Ork wargear isn't how much it costs, its how its not worth it because of either lots of rng or orks BS2

>>51103420
Fuckin nifty, thanks anon

>>51103444
What's your group like? I was thinking of doing a few acolytes with flamers, 10 death cults, a priest and an Inquistior in whatever land raider holds 16 models.

>>51103297
Nope, now we have shitty walkers and shitty mcs.

>>51102971
>Dark Eldar
-They whole army gets combat drugs
-all vehicles get aerial assault
-night shields force snapfire on enemy units and schytes and grav bikes upgrades confer vector strike
-power from pain gives normal fnp and +1 fnp the second time
>special characters back
>Tyranids
-synapse gives fearless and other bonuses
-bonded exoskeleton is back and also confers EW
-tervigon, exocrine, tyranofex, brood mothers, mawloc, maleceptor and toxicrene become GC
-no instinctive behavior
>Orks
-invulnerable saves
-nobz become t5
-extra armour for infantry to gives them +1 to armour saves(yes I want 3+ orks running around)
-old mob rule(even the bit to allow running units to join other mobs)
>move units from elite to heavy support
>allow deffdreads to be puerchased on killa kans mobs, 1 every 3 kanz
>Grey Knights
-everything but dreadknights get cheaper
-psy ammunition is back
-psy grav cannons for instant death grav :^)
-they give -1 to inv saves for miniatures with the daemon special rule
>Blood Angels
-They become a vanilla chapter
-frag cannons
-assault units become troops again
-new land speeder+rhino hybrid to carry 10 Marines fast and make CSM players butthurt

Formations are obviously coming let's just hope they're good

>>51103458
Christ, someone has already even done all of the work FOR games workshop to completely unfuck orks. Geedubs could just replace the replace the ork codex with the Space 0din dex, and it would unfuck the entire faction instantly, and make them actually viable. And the best thing is that all it needed to do was exactly what you just described...

>>51103472
Deathstars need their own fixes entirely separate from the assault rules.

>>51103387

True, but the Dragoon is much like the other Scout Walkers but kitted for melee.

Kind of an odd distinction, but it's built to kill on the charge and gets fucked over in prolonged combat against monsters with melee capability and units that can take out light AV in melee. It shares more in common with an Autocannon Sentinel than a Dreadnought with two DCCWs.

Point is, it's a Scout Walker because it's a cheap, paperlight walker that serves as a platform for its primary armament.

>>51103020
Easily space marines. Then probably orks, role playing retards

>>51103474
>implying you wouldn't take 1p per boy heavy armor
>implying adding power sword equivalents and invulnerable save gubbins wouldn't help ork characters
>implying having free special weapon in per 10 boyz in a mob would hurt them
>implying allowing burna to be shot and used in melee in same turn wouldn't help
etc.etc.

>>51103488
To be honest I don't think orks should get good armour saves per say but just have army wide FnP and have that stack with painboys

>>51103493
Any sufficiently powerful melee unit would be incredibly annoying to counter if it could ping pong between units with impunity. Assault needs to better ways of getting into combat vs shooting, not just winning when it gets there.

>>51103485
depends if im going all inquisition, or skitarii with inquisition support
-generally i take the xeno inquisitor
-with skitarii i usually give the chimera over to vanguard
-if im going all inquisition, i put a xeno inquisitor into a large group of around 4 deathcult, 2 to 4 crusaders, a priest, and some carapace boltpistol/ccw acolytes, give the xeno inquisitor all the nade buffs, and in assault its a nightmare for anything

>watching batrep
>one player wheezes and breathes audibly in every single cut

holy shit are fat fucks really like this?

>>51103529

FnP (6+) like Iron Hands and Skitarii? I'd argue Tyranids should have FnP (6+) as well, though perhaps tie theirs to Synapse, so all Synapse creatures have it (possibly giving their MCs FnP proper) and everything in their Synapse range gets it as well.

>>51103544

Yes. Never become fat. Avoid becoming fat at all costs.

Rate my killteam

Tau battlesuit Shas'vre with 2 plasma rifles, stimulant injector and 1 gun drone and 1 marker drone

Fire warrior strike team with 4 extra fire warriors (2 of them have pulse carbines)

Leader trait: Been there, done that

Specialist:
>Shas'Vre Ne'Vasa: +1BS (weapon specialist)

>Shas'ui Be'Ke'Ta: Eagle eye (weapon specialist)

>Shas'Saal Keva'Bava: move through cover (guerilla specialist)

>MV1 Gun drone [nicknamed Tracker]: Reaping volley (weapon specialist)

>>51103504
its still a dread/lemon russ killer

>>51103534
Just spread your units so they have a harder time charging after winning.

Possibly cut the charge range down to the d6 Consolidate move.

>>51103544
link?

>>51103569
D6 would be fine, 2D6 plus the potential for rerolls and extra range is a bit much to try and spread without gimping yourself.

>>51103560
> Making a Gun Drone your Reaping volley specialist
> Not making a Tri-burst suit your Reaping Volley specialist to tag 8 units a turn and make the ever-present "heavy bolter reaping volley" meta shit itself.

>>51103553
Yeah, all armies that are meant to be 'tough' that are currently shit tier at copping a bullet should get FnP in my opinion.

> 4+ armour save and 5+ fnp is equivocal to 3+ armour save against most things

>>51103582
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLAdI-kxkzM

>>51103599
>> 4+ armour save and 5+ fnp is equivocal to 3+ armour save against most things
It's better against a lot of things actually.

>>51103560
You can't have more than 1 trait from the same table in your kill team. Drop the marker drone, you hit once every 3 turns in average to boost your one model. Not going to happen very often.

Ate there any sites with decent pre generated lists? For kill team as well as 1000 point plus armies?

>>51103560
you can only take on of each specialist, or am I wrong. also, warlord cannot take a specialist role. Also unless your playing against 3+ saves, a cyclic ion blaster is a better choice than plasma rifles.

>>51103615
Jesus christ just use your fucking head.

>>51103600
Yeah, the one fucker in this vid does it alot, he's kind of shit at filming.

>>51103600
in the biz we call this "being a mouth breathing idiot"

>>51103628
Nothing wrong with copying a decent list and adjusting it

>>51103633
Yeah I really don't like this host Matt is better but all he plays is GSC, what a fag, but I'm trying to watch IG games to get a better handle on them.

>>51103600
its actually far more likely that this is smokers wheeze than fatman mouthbreathing

also is her using cheap historical british army minis for ig?

>>51102871
Is there any reason to take Imperial Guard Priests if I can just keep allying in as many Imperial Agent Priests as I want? They also get more wargear and an upgrade to make sure they always pass their War Hymns.

Or is that not something I can do?

>>51103613
>You can't have more than 1 trait from the same table in your kill team.

Ok, I must have missed that

>>51103568

Yes, but so can a Drop Sentinel with a Multi-Melta. or Lascannon (arguably to a lesser degree).

It's still light on armor, despite the weapon it carries. Not decrying its role as a headhunter, but Dreads should be able to take as well as they dish out.

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Which list is better? The PM's on the left have rhinos.

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>>51103600

His ig army looks really nice though so

>>51103677
Yes, and an english bulldog mini proxying for a commissar.

>>51103677

Yes because he is a dickhead with a special snowflake army

>>51103020
I mean we're all pretty fucking autistic. I'd say of the set, Tau has to be the worst though.

>>51103693
it all depends on whether you get the charge in, if you do, the I6 and other buffs usually kill a dread before it can touch you, but it struggles very badly with infantry

>>51103735
i mean it feels like he just wanted to play british colonialist army...

>>51103288
Yeah M8, I put hundreds on Google images for ya

>>51103769
I mean if you charge light infantry with a Dragoon can't it just tank them easily with its 11 AV?

>>51103791
if they have nothing that can reliably hit and hurt then yea - ive munched a lot of kroot tarpits that way, but you can just get stuck, and the way you want to be playing the dragoons is running around the board solving problems.

Oddly I've noticed that lots of players (their first time playing against dragoons) tend to ignore a dragoon, thinking its just like a sentinel and not much of a threat, but it moves faster, tanks better, and kills vehicles better and more reliably that a multimelta bs3

>>51103791
Well, that's something you really don't want to do. Kind of wasting it's potential as a tankhunter. It'll live and make its points back probably, but not worth it.

>>51103830
I reckon not a lot of people play with Dragoons and Ballistarii, huh?

>>51103791

You can, but then you have a bunch of wounds tying up a model that can't put out that many, so now it's stuck there unless you squadron them all together.

A Dragoon is a headhunter because you pick a model, be it vehicle or monster, and send it after it. It hunts individuals and struggles with blobs. It's under no threat from a Cultist squad, but now your 45 point model's S8 attacks are tied up with as many points in Cultists with three times as many wounds as it's likely to make in any melee phase (yes, there's Taser, but that's luck). You want that Dragoon untied and tilting at models twice to three times its points costs, aiming to take those tanks off the board so the rest of your army doesn't have to deal with them.

>>51103839
ive seen lots of people thinking that using the sniper dragoon is best, and hanging them back - not even realizing how good in close combat they are.
I remember my first time playing against them and losing a DA bike squad with my warlord to a sniper dragoon that both I and my opponent thought was just dead for being out of position.

I have no idea why anyone would take a ballistarii - its a waste of a precious heavy slot in a skitarii mantiple - and its just a very very slightly better autocannon sentinel (and its more expensive than a dragoon)

I think lots of players just have a built in bias against light walkers and assume they are trash, and never use them

>>51103330
good
assaulting in sci fi is dumb

>>51103209
not everyone... *cries a thousand tears*

>>51103881
This is why taufags need to be exterminated.

>>51103881

If this were Infinity, I'd agree. And in Infinity it's pretty balanced, and melee units really need to get into position or have stealth on their side to actually melee.

But this is 40k, and in the grimdarkness of the far future, magic hammers are viable weapons against tanks.

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Imagine if they reboxed AoBR for $80

>>51103897
send in the GSC

>>51103872
Hm. I plan on trying out the Ironstrider Cavalries formation. Gives them all outflank. Think that might make the Balistarii halfway decent? I don't know why you'd ever trade the lance for the jezzail to be honest.

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>>51103905

>>51103881
You're in the wrong fucking setting, mate.

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I want to use the Assassins in a relatively fluff accurate way, thoughts on this list?

>>51103905
74 MODELS FOR 80 DOLLARS?

IS THIS REAL LIFE?

HAS GW BEEN REDEEMED?

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>>51103881

>>51103909
maybe if the jezail had a profile like a transauric aquebus i cant spell any skitarii stuff

I'd be curious to know if that made them viable. I just can't think of a reason to use them, when all you get is an autocannon

>>51103909

>I don't know why you'd ever trade the lance for the jezzail to be honest

Monstrous Creatures? In melee, an AV11 walker would get trashed by anything with enough wounds and toughness to tank its attacks, plus the basic strength enough to break it. Might as well deal some poisoned wounds from ranged to try and deal with them.

But, yeah, Dragoon is the best choice.

>>51103921
If the Aelfs had a battletome, i'd honestly say it would rival 40k in terms of sales due to the way Roundtree is running GW

>>51103921
Told you guys a while back that more price changes, deals and sales are coming.

>>51103934
its some real bullshit that i cant haywire those fucking tau mechs

>>51103931

When I first saw the profiles of the Radium Jezzail and the Transuranic Arquebus, I was under the impression that someone made a mistake and mixed the two up. The heavier one is stuck to the infantry and the lighter one mounted on the walker?

>>51103905
Twice the models of Betrayal at Calth for half the price? Shit nigger, give me that shit all over my face.

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All he wanted was to be a hero.

>>51103952
25 points for a radium jezzail...?

>>51103931
Yeah, it's almost like they swapped them around. Since the Arquebus is 60" and armourbane.
>>51103934
Yeah that's about the only reason I can think of it. If the formation doesn't work I'll likely just use three dragoons instead since I plan on magnetizing them anyway.
>>51103952
Read my mind.

>>51103964
No, he didn't.
If there's anyone i pity from the Claw, it's Urzas

>>51103967

Well, good point there.

>>51103947
>its some real bullshit that i cant haywire those fucking space marine power armour

>>51103982
Anything you pilot should be haywire-able.

You don't pilot power armour, you wear it.

>>51103994
>You don't pilot Tau battlesuits, you wear it.

>>51103994
It's still an armoured, mechanical suit, though. If you shut down the power plant on its back then it loses a great deal of its potency.

>>51103773
Yea that's fine but why is he playing 40k

I'd be fine with him using non gw stuff except the fucking doggo

>>51104004
let me haywire your nonsense marklight and targetting crap then?

>>51104009
because everyone plays this game?

>>51104004
Do you sit in it or are the Tau's legs actually in the legs of the suit, same with arms and head?

If not, you pilot it.

>>51104006
Yeah but it's still a super soldier, and with or without the PA is still powerful. A Tau with dead suit is a dead tau.

>>51103977
>since I plan on magnetizing them anyway.
i didn't realise this was possible with dragoons ;-;

>>51102971
I never got why regular PA GK use storm bolters. They really should have been just bolter Marines with anti-warp bolts. Storm bolters could have been options, but they'd still use them two-handed.

>>51103735
You sound like a huge faggot. Would not play/10.

Though, I bet you don't really play already, so it's fine.

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>>51104029
>Do you sit in it or are the Tau's legs actually in the legs of the suit, same with arms and head?

What are stealth suits...

>>51104005
found the guy who has never played grey knights.

they already have deepstrike by default because of terminator armor.
stormshields would be nice but don't address the underlying problem
halberd strength advantage is one of the best things the army has going for it right now, are you insane?
Crowe can already achieve AP2, dear god read the rulebook
dreads are one of the only sources of AP2 that GKs have, you really have never played them.
dread attacks boost would reduce confusion
>not giving PA marines the same transport options as every other PA marine.

>MFW i have no suitable reaction for this post.

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>>51104035
Yup, it's just that you leave the gunner shield up, when you have the Jezzail or Lance out, and swap to the guns otherwise. It's...not as good as it could be. But I'd rather have variety.

>>51104070
sorry

>>51104060
Those are fine, and match my criteria. They don't get haywired.

>>51104057
So they can shoot and charge.

>>51104085
Regular marines can, they got bolt pistols.

>>51104076
so i know from making these, that the rail you are saying you need to leave up - that isnt something you actually need glue in - its more of a snap fit

>>51103693
>Drop Sentinel with a Multi-Melta. or Lascannon
Can't take a lascannon plus a single shot of anything is not a reliable vehicle killer.

You would need at least four sentinels bit than they'd be two squadrons so no guarantee that they'd arrive together.

Is it just me, or can you not buy GW daemonhosts for inquisition?

>>51104102
Oh really?

...uh...I don't think I understand actually. I haven't built mine yet.

>>51104029
Going by pic related, it looks like the Tau in the suit would have to be significantly larger and broader than your average Fire Warrior, in order to actually be wearing the suit like armour. Maybe they're hunched up in the foetal position inside the torso, just like the pilots of the larger battlesuits, and interfacing with the limbs and sensory equipment through a neural link. There might be just enough room for it on the models.

I'm not sure if GW put much thought into it though. They look very "models before fluff" to me.

>>51104117
You're correct. They were ancient models, briefly made available again for a week before going out of production again. You'll need to scour Ebay or convert.

Are Dark Eldar good in kill team?

>>51104117
Just convert them. That's part of the fun. Get a suitably fucked up looking human-like model and then take jeweler's chain and wrap the fucker up. Maybe make a tiny lock on the front.

Is black legion null deploy actually viable? Seems like a very heavy amount of tax on the core choice as neither really lends itself to null deploy

>>51104135
i don't have the first idea how to convert a daemonhost - im not even sure what its meant to look like, the two daemonhosts (old and new) look very different to each other (and garbage)

>>51104009
So you don't mind me bringing my collection of Crazy Bones as proxy for a Tyranid army?

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>>51104117
the models were really horrid anyway

>>51104153
Okay think, a demon, right? Except it's possessing a human. And it really wants out. it REALLY wants out. LET IT OUT. LET IT OUT.

Okay but don't. Just lock that fucker up and tell him what to do.

>>51104160
I mean, I don't know if I'd mind actually, if you had enough different Bonez to make them all recognizable?

For the last time, Tau suit tech is hyper advanced. There is no distinction between the pilot and the suit. In fact, according to the lore, the Admech dudes don't know where the pilot begins and where the suit starts. They are in perfect unity and tandem. They are a singular (monstrous) creature.

Does anyone else find Long War's strangely comfy?

Especially when we have Juice saying "Homeslice'" every other word whilst Talon passive aggressively tries to bend rules

>>51104186
Suits should have never been a monstrous creature. They're fucking machines. What makes them different from every other fucking walker? It's bullshit I tell you.

>mfw I just read what I wrote and remember Kastelans, which are literal robots, and also monstrous creatures

Uh...wait. Okay uh. Fuck.

>>51104186
Bait for the bait god!

Spergs for the sperg throne!

>>51104186
To a point that some suit veterans still think they are in their suits when they undon it, jumping off buildings thinking they can just jetpack etc.

>>51104135
>>51104163
I remember when those models came out. Now that I look back, the sculpts weren't the best, even for their time, but 13-year-old me thought they were awesome.

Can you haywire a Tau nervous system? No? Then you cannot haywire a suit.

Find a single mention of a Tau suit being affected by haywire in the fluff. You can't.

>>51104186
>>51104203
The only reason they're creatures is because of drones.

>>51104186
>There is no distinction between the pilot and the suit.

ONE OF THEM IS MADE OUT OF MEAT
THE OTHER IS MADE OUT OF METAL

THIS IS NOT A DIFFICULT CONCEPT TO GRASP

>>51104186
[citation needed]

Also, you do realize Dread pilots are hooked to their machines and it becomes their body, yet they're not MCs, right? And daemon engines are living creatures of daemon and machine, yet they're walkers.

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>>51104205
That's just imperial propaganda Gue'la, nothing wrong with our battle suits and their brave pilots

>>51104213
>daily reminder that old Artillery rules were an amalgamation of vehicle and infantry

Not an excuse.

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>>51104133
FFS. Pic related didn't actually upload, so here it is.

>>51103474
>lots of rng
Not an issue, unless of course orks pay for items cost based on the best possible outcome, even though it's worth the points 15% of the time, but typically end up worse and less reliable than anything from any other army ever, meaning you're better off buying more upgradeless bodies.

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>>51104186
disheveled tau sympathizer spotted

>>51104216
ONLY TAU CAN HAVE NICE THINGS, FUCK EVERYONE ELSE! NOW DROWN IN UNDERPRICED OVERPERFORMING GIANT SUITS GUE'LA!

>>51104226
Which is also no longer the case.

>>51104216
>[citation needed]

Fire Warrior novel and FFG material. Dreadnoughts and Imperial neural implanted do not cause this >>51104205

>>51104243
To be fair, Dreadnought pilots don't really get the opportunity to leave their suits in the first place.

>>51104215
On a mental and nervous system level, THEY ARE ONE. The suit and pilot meld to form a singular being.

You do realize that unity and perfect harmony between different cogs and parts is a big theme of the Tau?

>>51104261
But we have Imperial Knight and Titan pilots. They leave their machines with not suffering that syndrome.

>>51104267
>The suit and pilot meld to form a singular being.

It doesn't matter. The suit is still made out of metal. Being plugged into a chunk of meat doesn't suddenly make it immune to EMP attacks designed to burn out electronics and fry mechanical systems.

>>51104280
That's why their unit type is vehicle (walker) :^)

>>51104280
A testament to the flaws of Tau technology, leaving their pilots nervous systems ravaged and plagued by phantom pain/delusions. Such is the perversion of the xenos.

>>51104296
As far as electronics and machinery go, Haywire grenades should basically cripple any Admech unit, most Marines, and basically anything that could even possibly be made of metal and also electronic. It's going to fuck up anything but flesh and blood. Hell, it might even fuck up a Daemon machine.

>>51104296
The suits are being totally run by the nervous system of Tau pilot. Haywires do not affect ordinary Tau nervous systems so they won't affect the suits.

>>51104280
True. Titan Princeps do experience some bleed of personality traits from their Titans over time though (a more aggressive Titan gradually makes its pilot a more aggressive person, etc.), but that's about the extent of it. Nothing as drastic as what happens to Tau suit pilots.

>>51103458
>Fearless and ATSKNF need penalties for losing combats
Nah. That's the way of thinking that lead to tyranid synapse rules hamstringing the army

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>>51104296
Yfw in next codex tau suits are immune to poison because of this.

>>51103978
"Sevetar? Is Sevetar dead?"
Poor Urzas, always getting laughed at :(

>>51104331
That ... doesn't make any sense.

>>51104355
I honestly wouldn't put it past GW at this point.

>>51104077
I play GK!
>You don't play GK
I don't play GK
>You want to go home and re-think your army

>>51104376
depends on how well tau suits are selling

you can bet that if people started buying up sisters like crazy they would get new models and overpowered bullshit

>>51104153
>i don't have the first idea how to convert a daemonhost - im not even sure what its meant to look like

This is the ultimate choose your own adventure unit for warhammer.

Ask yourself: How did you inquisitor make these?
-Did they just find a random possessed person and chain him up with magic daemon binding chains?
-Did they make one on purpose using forbidden heresy experiments and tech?
-Did they somehow inherit old daemonhosts with dead, zombie-like bodies and increasingly angry daemons who are still trapped inside, keeping the host form "alive"?

To go further:
What are inside the daemonhosts?
-Raging Khorne daemons who grew horns and are furiously biting and clawing and running around hunched over like rabid dogs
-Magic tzeentch bird daemons who are growing wings, feathers, weird skin colours, and float or hover the skinny, barely used muscles of their host bodies around to shoot magic
-Nurgle daemons who have basically turned their hosts into zombies, living and rotting creatures covered in sores, boils, and with exposed insides, bones, or muscles
-Slaanesh daemons, who have developed crab claws, inhuman beauty, and attempt to hypnotize/seduce/transfix their targets and must either be covered up to prevent friendly forces falling victim to their wiles, or are exposed for maximum enemy effects

>>51103209

Yea, but then you miss out on having ObSec stealth AC Havoks

>>51104404
Sisters will never be overpowered. Mark my words.

>>51104413
they never will be because people will never buy crappy old expensive and ugly metal models with shitty rules. Sisters don't sell at all. This is a what-if scenario.

>>51103921
>>51103944

its the original price, what are you fuckers about ?

>>51104341
A, there's nothing really wrong with current synapse (other than the possibility of lacking synapse being a boon).

B, Fearless and ATSKNF being able to lock low-to-mid-tier CC units for extended periods of time is a major issue with Assault armies.

>>51104432
I do wonder what will happen if plastic sisters do get released. I imagine they'll sell out as well as Veridyan did?

>>51104441
it is the original price, but the dollar is weaker now due to inflation. In effect, it is cheaper

>>51104210
By that logic you can't Haywire a titan either, cos of the Princeps, they should be MC too, right??? I know you are baiting, but this is why I said above I want Walkers to be better than MCs, then Turd burgers like you will cry that your Tau aren't walkers like they should be.
Nice bait, triggered me hard.

>>51104448
>A, there's nothing really wrong with current synapse (other than the possibility of lacking synapse being a boon).

Just leave please.

>>51104451
hard to say. Nobody but GW knows how well that model sold, and a one off has a much wider appeal than an army (people who do not play sisters probably also wanted that model just for their collection, because it was a really cool model)

>>51104448
In older rules, when a Fearless unit lost combat, it suffered a number of automatic wounds equal to the number it lost by. Now when you've got a unit of Space Marines who can happily take that on their 3+ armour save, it's not a big deal. When you're dealing with Gaunts, which are designed to lock enemy units in combat and grind them down through attrition, you'd often see large chunks of each unit vanish at the end of each phase. No Retreat was an awful rule that punished Orks and Tyranids for trying to play the way they're supposed to play.

>>51104448

Those rules do nothing to extend combat. Unless what you're really trying to say is "I can't sweep 14 point marines with my 3 point conscripts" in which case fuck you that's your own fault for charging them to begin with.

>>51104451
Depends:

If they get a new weapon option or variation, or are a new unit, yes, because old sisters players will buy the new thing.

If they are completely faithful recreations of the models with holy trinity loadouts (melta, flame, bolter) SoB, then either:
>No one buys them because sisters are a super niche army played by guys who completed their collection twenty years ago, grills don't sell, and GW was right all along
>Holy shit everyone jumps on the plastic space waifu army and "no grill allowed" GW is btfo

>>51102970

>Have sword
>Make it a chainsword
>Add bayonet

I fucking love 40k

>>51104509
>Completed their collection
Yeah, not releasing new models makes that achievable

>>51104458
Synapse should have penalties for failure to maintain it.

>>51104482
Did I say "bring back No Retreat exactly how it worked at one specific time"? No, I didn't.

>>51104483
Fuck off with your strawman, shitposter. There are myriad CC units that get fucked over by ATSKNF/Fearless. Banshees, Shining Spears, most mid-strength CSM CC units, Orks.

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>>51104483
>"I can't sweep 14 point marines with my 3 point conscripts"

>>51103488
>>51103440

>Deldar

I think some combination of these.

>Night Shields give -BS based on movement
>-1 stationary, -2 up to 12, -3 above 12

>>51104528
Losing fearless and being stuck on gaunt ld is enough of a penalty.

>>51104482
It was a shit rule. Different armies should necessitate different playstyles, you can't just charge Marines like you would charge a Tau gunline and that is a good thing and should be expaded upon. Instead we get retards like him who want every army to play the same and do the same.

>>51104528
>Synapse should have penalties for failure to maintain it.
I'm serious, just leave.

>>51104528
>implying anyone should feel sorry for Eldar players
>implying CSM and Orks aren't shit regardless of ATSKNF

See? Like I said, you're retarded.

>>51104528
>muh underpriced low to mid tier xenos CC units should be able to go toe to toe with overpriced mid to high tier marine units

>>51104318
>ORKSES WILL RULE THE DAY
fuck maybe haywire buffs will actually fix the ork and 'nid codexes if they treated ork vehicles as the miracles of technology they are

>>51104546
I agree that spontaneously eating themselves is too much of a penalty, but the concept "maintain Synapse for a benefit, lose it and take a penalty" is sound. It just needs tweaked.

>>51104550
If you just want to shitpost, go to /pol/.

Just because some/most Eldar shit is OP, that doesn't mean that there are units that need improved.

Just because suffering against ATSKNF opponents isn't the biggest issue facing Orks and CSM doesn't mean that it isn't an issue.

>>51102871
How often do Guard players win at your stores or in your groups? I've been watching bat reps and I think out of all of the ones I've seen with Guard, I've only seen 2 win.

>>51104618
Not him but the penalty is gaunts have IB and Ld 5.

And in current edition IB is the worst it's ever been. It should go back to the 4e version which actually made sense.

>>51104355
So why do Tau helmets/units have vertical "eyes" or are cyclops, again?

>>51104549
>huge swarms should be good because codex lore says so!
>losing synpase shouldn't have any penalties because lore explictly states that killing off synapse is one of the few ways to beat nids in a battle
It is you who should get out.

>>51104637
Now you're just embarassing yourself

>>51104626
50/50, but that's because of fortifications use and some very good guard players. the basic lasgun has never been worse.

>>51104637

As said multiple times, the penalty is that gants have L5.

Why is this such an alien concept

>>51103694
Plague colony isn't that great.

>>51104681
"We have to play by the same leadership rules that everyone else uses" isn't much a penalty.

>>51104698
Anon i cant even tell if you are baiting or really are this fucking retarded. Having to play by the same ld rules as everyone is the penalty because the gaunts are ld6 meanindg 9/10 your swarm is getting swept if it doesn't have fearless.

>>51104698

Sure it is, when their leadership stat is deliberately placed absurdly low to make up for the existence of Synapse.

>>51104518
A faint glimmer of rationality tells me that a chainsaw is actually pretty terrible as a stabbing implement so it vaguely makes sense. It'd be smarter just to give chainswords a pointed sheathed tip in the first place, but whatever.

>>51104241
Point is that it was done, so "you can have a unit with a mix of vehicles and non-vehicles" is not a valid argument.

>>51104777
I was just saying that was why they did it, not that they couldn't do it.

>>51104149
anyone?

>>51104243
So eons old novel that didn't say half the things you mentioned and 3rd party sources that aren't even licensed anymore.

0/10, try harder.

>Dreadnoughts and Imperial neural implanted do not cause this >>51104205

Yeah, because they're actually good.

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Rate my 1000pts list cobbled from shit I have on hand. Iron Warriors CAD.

>INB4 "what list builder is this"

>>51104732
Oh...and here I was thinking it was because they are literally 4p or 5p models. Maybe GW goes all-out wulfen on them?

>>51104794
And I'm saying their reasoning is weak and pathetic, as always.

>>51104816
Eh, you can say that about everything they've done since 4th edition.

>>51104811
>>51104732
>>51104727
>>51104698
I can't tell what's being argued here.

Are you guys saying gaunts are too good or that synapse is too good or what?

Because both are retarded.

>>51104802
What shit army is this?
Pls no cobble

>>51104811
5 point models can be L7 (Guardsman) or L8 (Neophytes). 6 point Boyz are also L7 and have several benefits over Tyranid infantry.

It's because they're in Codex Tyranids and get easy access to Fearless as a part of playing the army that they got placed with below-average leadership as a penalty for not being in Synapse.

>>51104802
>three squads
>two transports
drop the dread down to a helbrute and then pick up a third transport

also take some havoc launchers your will not regret it

>>51104829

Some people are saying that Instinctive Behavior shouldn't be a thing and it's something holding Tyranids back, and the penalty for being out of synapse is already shown in below-average leadership scores.

An idiot is arguing that either gants would be OP without Instinctive Behavior, or that Instinctive Behavior is so inherently necessary to Tyranid identity that losing it would be unthinkable.

>>51104829
>>51104727 Anon here. I personally believe that gaunts are shit because they have a hard time hurting anything even with 90 attacks on the charge. Synapse also isnt too good either because it causes your army to be filled with so much synapse units that you dont get enough units to actually do damage. While that is a good handicap as the codex is now it makes doing anything towards a swarm army a pain in the ass at the current meta points.

>>51104671
fortifications always seem cheesey to me, especially aegis lines

>>51104884
>Some people are saying that Instinctive Behavior shouldn't be a thing and it's something holding Tyranids back
No one is saying that.

>>51104884
>Some people are saying that Instinctive Behavior shouldn't be a thing and it's something holding Tyranids back
It shouldn't be a thing in current form.

>and the penalty for being out of synapse is already shown in below-average leadership scores.
This was only true in 2nd.

>An idiot is arguing that either gants would be OP without Instinctive Behavior
That's bullshit, however

>or that Instinctive Behavior is so inherently necessary to Tyranid identity that losing it would be unthinkable.
Agreed. You don't just take away a core special rule they've had for 4 editions including in one of the Chambers codexes.

The problem with IB now is that it doesn't fit the fluff. Tyranids should never be eating each other, that's fucking retarded, and also they shouldn't be getting benefits for rolling a 6 on the IB chart because Tyranids outside synapse are not more effective than those in synapse, that's equally retarded.

The 4e IB system worked perfectly and there was no reason to change it whatsoever.

>>51104926
I sincerely wish for tyranid players to be delivered from the cruddex

also to get a battleforce deal or something because holy crackers they have like the most expensive models in the entire GW line

File: 2nd draft Minotaurs.png (216KB, 926x1025px) Image search: [Google]

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Why they don't have the Minotaur IC Contemptor ( which is 225 pts) is beyond me.
Thoughts?

>>51104926
just never be out synapse range; problem solved

>>51104961
No you missed the entire point. This isn't an issue of balance it's an issue of proper design.

Tyranids are going to end up outside of synapse in games because one of the core principles of design for the army is that you counter it by shooting the synapse beasts, and when that happens, they should behave like Tyranids outside synapse are supposed to behave, not like the current clusterfuck of overcomplicated and fluffraping random results that exist that somehow were so badly written they manage to make Tyranids function both better AND worse than they should outside synapse.

>>51104798
You are 100% correct, the units don't lend themselves to null deployment, its like that one ork formation where you can null deploy but the main units are shit when deep striking

>>51104899
they're pretty much a requirement to play guard now.

woukd you rather
A) Rules and new models get released much slower, but drop in price 20% when out for a long time; and the game becomes more unbalanced, rules more sloppy and faqs few and far between
or
B) GW prices are higher but stuff is released faster and rules are constantly updated, written clearly and professionally, and balance improves greatly
>>51104957

>>51104958
I asked for him to add all the Minotaurs stuff, and forgot about him
>Sorry not sorry
Just send him an email.

>>51105005
>about 250 point tax on units that will do nothing all game for the privilege of null deploying
help

>>51105019
fortifications really leave a bad taste in my mouth so ive moved to mech guard

>>51105028
The second one, obviously.

>>51105028
either is fine with me

but we are getting neither so it doesn't really matter

>>51104865
>last time I built a 1500 list to expand into /tg/ kept telling me to drop Havoc launchers
>nobody had issues with a basic Autocannon squad buttoning up in cover or camping an objective

>>51105048
not that obvious anon, id take cheap models over strict rules any day - if you play with rules-as-written permissive 40k assholes, thats a you problem. Plus more frequent models means more buying, more codices, more rip offs

>>51105049
it feels like we get high prices with unbalanced rules that never get updated and feel like they were written by children; and frequent releases of crap and parts of the game abandoned

>>51105078
>and the game becomes more unbalanced, rules more sloppy and faqs few and far between
versus
>rules are constantly updated, written clearly and professionally, and balance improves greatly
So you're either spending 20% less for shit or, let's say, 20% more to keep it equal, for quality.

In the first case you're spending 80% more than you should because no amount of cheapness justifies buying into a shit game, wasted money is wasted money.

The second one gives you a reason to spend any in the first place, so the fact that it's "more expensive" than something you should spend 0$ on means nothing.

>>51105070
think of it this way

would you pay 35 points for a void shield on your autocannon squad that swallowed up the first couple hits against it?

as for havoc launchers, it depends on your meta. They aren't super strong and rhinos tend to glanced to death turn 1, but if you ever fight guard to something they are really good.

>>51105040
What?
Just don't use the formation because it isn't great?
I guess that Hounds of Abbadon and melta termies wouldn't be too bad.

> Just don't bother with a one trick pony whose only trick is to kick its face

>>51105094
do they even hire editors for their rulebooks, the core rulebook is a nightmare of vague and confusing wording mixed with terrible structure and layout. Compared to say a tabletop rpg rulebook, the 40k books look like a highschool project

>>51103182

The thing with Boyz is that they don't do a whole lot once they hit home. This change would just make them a bit more capable of getting there, except against Str 8 and higher weaponry, which would gain some added benefit vs Orks, and make them able to tarpit more effectively. It gives them a role, which they currently lack, and it's fluffy (Orks are portrayed in the fluff as being able to take massive amounts of damage, but they're easy enough to wound).

Thus, I wouldn't say that they need a points increase. The one possible issue would be Painboyz; being able to give 30 Boyz FNP might be overkill. A simple change would be to change Doc's Tools to work like a Kustom Force Field, where they only function within 6" of the weilder.

>>51103071

I'd double all Hull Points on Ork vehicles too. Easy to blow up, difficult to hull point out. Also 10 HP Orkanauts sound hilarious.

>>51105098
the point being that even with slow updates and sloppy unbalanced rules it can be a fun game It doesn't need to be a competitive game and with the state of the rules it should not be competitive It can be a perfectly good casual wargame / roleplaying wargame

>>51105128
> 6 HP trukks with an improved ramshackle rule
I would play the shit out of that

>>51105115
I was really looking for a way to make null deploy work, but it seems like the only good way to do that is to convert some some stuff and then run the models as codex: space marines for that skyhammer formation

>>51105147
Better rules improve the game experience for everyone, not just competitive players, anon.

The fact that people have to defend bad rules as "well if you just play fluffy and casual..." is a problem in and of itself that only this community seems to not realize isn't supposed to be a thing. If the rules-writers did their jobs there would be no separation of competitive/casual fluffy environs, two players who each enjoy a different side of that "dichotomy" should be able to play a game vs each other and both enjoy it completely in their own way.

>>51105147
It's not even good at being casual anymore, as we lost most of the flavor stuff.

How is the state of the Thousand Sons in tabletop right now? Is it possible to make a fun and fluffy army, not using a shit ton of daemons and instead focusing on the marines or sorcerers?

>>51105179
Fucking this. Anyone notice that the modern rules are not only the worst we've had in terms of balance but ALSO the worst in terms of fluff for many factions?

It's almost like... well-written rules make the game both fluffier AND more balanced.

>>51105177
more money improves life expierence for players...

>>51104958
>Even this version of my list costs over £350
Fucking hell GW, my wallet is glad i've jumped to AoS

>>51105185
Rubirics and scarab occult terminators are expensive pointwise. Tzangoors might help. If you can abuse psychic phase (with lucky rolls on powers) it can be ok.

>>51105128
I like the idea of inflated hull points on Ork vehicles, but definitely not the multiple Wounds thing. You don't make 6pt horde models that you have to track Wounds on, that's just retarded.

>>51105185
Have you been under a rock or something? they got a ton of new models including a plastic Magnus the Red

Rules wise they could be better, but the models are sweet.

>>51104228
I don't care what people say I think tau have a cool aesthetics. Don't wanna play them though cause they just sit around doing nothing though.

>>51105190
GW needs to hire monte cook to write their rules

>>51105197
Then they can buy less models and still have more fun with them.

>>51105166
yeah drop pods are really quite ridiculous when you compare them to every other codex

> I'm just salty none of my armies get an immobile rhino

>>51105199
I wish people in my area played aos on a day other than the day I have to work late

>>51105217
>Rules wise they could be better,
This is a gross understatement.

They're giving Orks a run for their money as undeniably shittiest army in the game by far, unless you count Magnus, who is on the complete opposite end of the scale by being utterly broken to the point of no one wanting to play games with you.

>>51105222
sounds like a bad deal just for some clearer rules only rules-nerds would give a shit about

>>51105240
Or, you know, anyone who wants a more cinematic and interesting game experience without having to wade through oceans of shitty homebrew to find the rare good ones.

>>51105231
Post on their fb page asking if anyone is free on your free days?
Get a campaign going where each round is a week?

I'm exactly in the same poition as you desu, but i've got an army to full paint b4 i start asking for games

>>51105197

If you're spending so much on 40k that your quality of life suffers for it, the problem isn't the prices, it's you.

>>51105232
> worse than orks
> ap3 bolters on 3+ dudes

the orks will always prevail

>>51105229
F12 S12 R12 Deep Strike turn 1 obj scoring; what kinda rhino are you pining for and only 30 points jesus fuck

>>51105229
>waaaah my immobile turn one deep striking rhino with better weapons and enormous footprint

>>51105028
Don't monkey paw us of this.

The worst thing is opening a new codex and seeing typos and incorrect entries that you know won't get fixed until the next codex in 4 years time. Sure there is an errata, I love printing off extra sheets of A4 paper that I have to carry round with a high quality £25 book that I need if I want to use it in a store. (Because fuck having to scroll through digital versions on a phone or tablet...)

>>51105206

It's really not that hard though. Wounds just come from closest model anyway, and most of the time, you'll just be halving the number of deaths.

>>51105257
>ap3 bolters on 3+ dudes
For 23ppm with slow and purposeful in an edition where no one gives a shit about your armor save.

>>51105251
i think youre confusing cinematic with pedantic and annoying

>>51105253
This is 40k general, I get that there isn't enough of you tards to have a good discussion anywhere else, but please stop shitting up 40k fun land.

>>51105283
What in the fuck are you talking about

>>51105268
i really dont understand why they cannot do additional runs... every fucking book does this

>>51105253
>but i've got an army to full paint b4 i start asking for games
actually the same for me too. The nearest game store takes two hours to get to so I can't really go after work every, let alone on nights I work late. Fridays and weekends they do only magic the gathering.

I've checked several times and there are no real 40k or AoS clubs in my immediate area.

I don't play either game really, just collect, build, paint, and put lists together.

>>51105264
A broken one, obviously.
> wheres my ML4 rhino at

>>51105267
> I was actually being sincere about wanting a drop pod but okay

Who in the fuck thought it was okay to make Drop Pods a scoring unit?

I can forgive almost everything else about them, but that is high-key retarded.

>>51105302
or what the justification for a magazine quality book to be 25$ is

File: 99239999075_CitadelBattleCase01.jpg (29KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

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What are some good cheap cases for transporting my dudesmen, preferably something that could fit nicely in a piece of carry on luggage or fit in a backpack if such a thing exists

got 25 marines, 5 devastators, one guy with a banner, 5 termies, 3 dreads a land raider and a rhino

I can nab this thing for about 60 dollars and it seems like it would fit everything with room to spare but I'd like to hear about the alternatives, plus I don't know how good the new citadel cases are

>>51105306
>not realizing that these options you perceive as shitty are far and above better than so much of what other books get
space marine players are entitled af

>>51105185
>How is the state of the Thousand Sons in tabletop right now?
They are disgustingly bad. Its almost as they let two SW fanboys write the codex or something.