/osrg/ OSR General - Simply Making the Thread Edition

/osrg/ tell me; Why is the evil duke heavily taxing the peasantry?

>>51089478
He's a faerie that feeds on human emotions.
Sure, he COULD consume happiness, but despair is much easier to get, and has such an exquisite aftertaste...

>>51089478
Paying ransom money to a group of kobolds holding his child hostage in in an old tower filled with deathtraps. The kobolds were tasked by their draconic overlord to venture forth and bring back as much treasure as they could, and they figured that extortion was easier and less deadly than adventuring. Of course they don't realize that the duke's taxes come more in the form of wool and turnips than gold and jewels.

>>51089478
1. He's a fucking dragon in a human form, duh.
2. He's addicted to some really expensive arcane drug. When there'll be no more money to take, he will start to trade souls of peasants.
3. He has gambling problems. If not stopped, he will gamble his lands away. But who will get them?
4. He's constructing a massive supercomputer. All that gold goes onto the billions of circuitboards.
5. He's a servant of The God Of All Pleasures. And his pleasure is gluttony. That's why those taxes include a few humans...
6. He's building a dungeon. If not stopped soon enough, he will expand it to a megadungeon.

>>51089478
He's greedy, duh.

>>51089916
>He's building a dungeon. If not stopped soon enough, he will expand it to a megadungeon.

I like the idea of going into a dungeon mid-construction

>>51089916
7. He secretly belongs to the Cult of Sancti Socialismus and he expects his region tol be blessed once the tax rate reaches 90%

>>51089321
He's Britonnian.

>>51089999
Is it an evil cult? 'Cause otherwise that plan doesn't sound that evil.

>>51089916
>1. He's a fucking dragon in a human form, duh.
Alternatively, he's a dragon otherkin.

>>51089916
>He's a fucking dragon
Actually he is fucking a dragon and his new woman requires outrageous amounts of gold to be happy

>>51089942
Encounters in an unfinished dungeon!
1. 3d6 construction workers on a break, plus 1d3 engineers. Will raise alarm if disturbed.
2. Suddenly, [1d6, 1 = magma, 2-5 = water, 6 = slime] starts gushing in through a poorly placed wall!
3. Muffled screams can be heard from behind the freshly constructed walls.
4. A shipment of specially bred dungeon vermin! Including, but not limited to, man-eating roaches, giant rats, and normal bats.
5. A mortar and plaster golem appears. Then a wall collapses.
6. The Evil Duke himself, escorted by 4 bodyguards and 1 engineer.

>>51090257
Misread this as he's an actual dragon and that that bitch of princess he kidnapped is nagging him for more expensive shit.

>>51090058
It is not inherently evil but some sects want to merge every worker in the world together.

>>51089478
Because the even eviler archduke is going to seize his lands and conscript his population if he doesn't pay up a sizeable carucage. Next year, the archduke will raise the taxes even further, and the duke won't be able to pay even if he 100% taxes his people.

>>51089478
To force one of them to defeat him and rise up as a hero, who may be powerful enough to defeat a greater evil.

Evil duke is actually heroically sacrificing himself.

reading guns of war from ACKS, and other versions of firearms rules for OSR, I don't feel like they add anything mechanically. Penetrating armor is fiddly and annoying to adjudicate on the fly, and the damage being comparable to bows despite having such a slow rate of fire just makes them boring additions to the game.

I want fantasy firearms. The kind where you shoot once per battle since it's so fiddly to load, but hits blows a fist-sized hole trough an ogre and makes so much noise everyone in the field is deaf for a round.

I want a BOOMSTICK.

I mean it's a fantasy game. Why are the guns so boring and realistic?
I don't want to go full katana pasta here but I want guns to be something players will want to use, even the ones that are mostly melee, just for the first volley before charging ahead.

So lets have it:
>Fantasy Firearms: They use powdered magical runes instead of blackpowder, and bullets inscribed with runes.
>Reloading: Fantasy firearms takes 10 full rounds to reload (1 entire minute). Cannot be reloaded in battle.
>Damage: Musket: 3d6, pistol 2d8, handcannon: 6d6 (think a one-use per battle wand of fireballs).
>prices: Cannot be bought, should be added to the treasure table to be randomly rolled. (so I don't have to balance prices cause fuck that)
>Ammo: 20 rune-inscribed bullet+ enough powdered runes to shoot 20 times costs 1000gp

before you tell me it's unbalanced, I'm not good at balancing so I'm 100% welcome to ideas on how to balance it. The basic idea is: A huge damage spike at round 1, then you have to go melee. The guns themselves should be rare enough that the usual "bandoleer of pistols" tactic to avoid reloading is impractical, and Ammo should be so expensive players will really want to save their shots until they absolutely have to use it.

Of course, there would also be regular guns in the setting, using the standard rules. These would just be the gun equivalent of a +2 or +3 magical sword

>>51090636
That's the worst plan I have ever heard.

>>51089478

A political rival has captured the Duke's son and heir in battle. If he doesn't pay the ransom, his heir will waste away in the rival's dungeons.

Despite having a reputation for being evil (and possibly even the actual alignment), he isn't doing this out of maliciousness, and knows full well its eroding his feudal relationship with his people.

>>51090764

AD&D 2e had firearms rules. There was a rule (and I'm not now sure what book it was from) where firearms dice exploded, making them something of a gamble.

You might get a roll that explodes several times, and kills your target in one hit. Or you might roll a 1.

>>51091073
>firearms dice exploded

Now I have a stupid idea: if exploded dice result in a more damage than maximum possible damage from a natural roll, it hurts the shooter. Derp, literally explosion.

>>51091073
that seems cool

>>51090828
It's that or start burning down farmsteads to create orphans, and this way you get something out of it at least.

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>>51089321
Please considering contributing to Troll Gods, /OSRG/'s very own fanzine.

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>>51091561

>>51089478
>>51089940 This. Why would he need an excuse? He wants velvet pants and a gold bathtub, who the fuck ever needed more reason than that to take what they can?

These are the retroclones I have downloaded and read:

>ACKS
>AS&SoH (Thats what I call long name)
>Basic Fantasy
>Beyond the Wall
>Blood & Treasure
>Crypts and Things (remastered)
>Dark Dungeons
>DCC
>Exemplars & Eidolons
>Grey Matter
>Holmes Other Game
>Into the Odd
>LL
>LotFP
>Myth & Magic
>Star without Number
>S&W
>Old School Hack
>OSRIC
>Rabbits & Rangers
>Renegade
>Spears of the Dawn

What other systems would recommend me to check out? I love races-as-multiple-classes, unusual and weird settings and I prefer games that don't go beyond level 15, I also prefer basic D&D than AD&D. But you can suggest whatever you want, I just want to read more for inspiration and get new ideas of how to do things

>>51091853
>What other systems would recommend me to check out?
Hm, I think mostly just OD&D to see how compact you can actually make the whole game.

Then after that I'd start looking at setting books instead if I were you -- notably Carcosa and Yoon-Suin.

>>51091853
Dungeon World and Torchbearer

>>51091898
>I'd start looking at setting books instead if I were you -- notably Carcosa and Yoon-Suin.
I already checked both, I was going to make this question (good setting books) later

>>51091926
>Dungeon World and Torchbearer
I didn't mention these because they aren't retroclones, but I read both already. MouseGuard is better than torchbearer IMO and DW is not as good as AW, it's core system

>>51091926
But DW is just PbtA with autism mods.

>>51091975
Incidentally, Torchbearer is BW with less autism.

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Why do no adventurers ever seem to take a compass along?

>>51092196
I guess players tend to forget about it while making characters. I always pack one when it's available.

>>51092196
never seen it listed in the equipment section of any of the retroclones I've played so no one thinks of buying one.

>>51092196
Usually not on the equipment table. Seen as too advanced.

>>51092046
What's the main differences between Torchbearer and BW? Granted I like BW's basic rules.

>>51092196
Maybe the world you play in doesn't have the poles.

Maybe it's just easier to use minor magic.

Maybe your world simply isn't that advanced. I mean, fucking spyglass costs more that your life, Sir Murderhobo Jr.

>>51093207
I heard Torchbearer is simpler than BW, it also has race as class if I remember correctly

Gonna ask again just to be a lazy slob: does anyone have a link to an unlisted Lulu edition of Chainmail, or any suggestions about where one could find such a link?

>>51091561
Has any of this happened yet? I remember some noise about it like a year ago, but then someone got sick I think.

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>>51092196
Because Sunstones are more period for most games. Also, because a compass is included in the Specialist's Tools for Seamanship.

>>51089478
1) If you would have peace, prepare for war.
2) Restoring Roman public works projects. The jackoffs out in the sticks don't see anything but slightly better roads, but the city he lives in is loyal to the death now that they have clean running water and a wall that can stop cannon shot.
3) His father made it so that traditional days of service could be bought off. The Duke increased the number of days because nobody wanted to actually do any work for him. The peasants are still getting more leisure time just paying his jerk ass off and the Duchy is falling to ruin.
4) He's an alchemist and made the mistake of shooting his mouth off to the King. Now he's trapped in a Ponzi scheme trying to find the real formula before his chickens come home to roost.

>>51093865
First issue is in the trove.

>>51093925
Awesome, thanks

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>>51089321
I would change the Pabst in that image to Schlitz. Pabst is NOT good, just a solid RECENT advertising campaign south of the Mason Dixon line. Or maybe put something on the bottom left near the bong where a Pabst is being inserted into the bleached rectum of a millennial?

>>51090266
Is that like a sheet-rock golem?

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>>51091898
You are a mean fucker to recommend Carcosa. I mean, I love it, but it's a place I stick players when they get inadvertently transported somewhere to very quickly die. Party fucks up and maybe should get TPK... but feeling soft? send them to Carcosa instead.

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Is Castle of the Mad Archmage any good?

>>51094108

Not the anon you're replying to, but I think Carcosa works best if you adapt it to your own purposes rather than running it as is. The setting really doesn't give you any reason to adventure, since there's no large settlements or cities where you can offload wealth.

I mean, after you've spent all that snek man gold on every color of prostitute (and maybe even a space alien or two) and you've managed to cobble together an arsenal of rayguns and take over some warlord's "stronghold" of 300 persons, what else is there to do except die horribly?

"As is" is fun for one-shots or short campaign though.

>>51094284
I like Carcosa's psionics. Very straight forward.

>>51091853
Ambitions & Avarice
Perdition

>>51094284
>The setting really doesn't give you any reason to adventure, since there's no large settlements or cities where you can offload wealth.
In fact, it's so gritty and horrible there's even a real problem with the concept of "wealth". Where does the gold come from and what does anybody do with it? Word of God the inhabitants are all stone-age primitives or professional archsadist Cthulhu cultists, so who mints coin or knows any other use for gold?

Carcosa is one of my best RPG purchases ever, but damn if the world as printed holds up internally to even five sessions' worth of play.

>>51094651
To me, Carcosa is one of those OSR darlings that is seriously overrated. The concept is metal as hell but most of the material is just so useless without tinkering I wonder why buy it at all instead of just sticking to the metal concept. And yeah, part of it is the helplessness of the setting - there is in fact fuck all you can do to even begin to improve things, and even something as simple as getting filthy rich is completely pointless.

>>51094651
Also the Sorcerer class is pretty much completely and utterly useless to PCs. Like, "why even present it as an option, just have sorcerer NPCs" useless. The requirements to do any magic whatsoever are just so insane it's inconceivable any sorcerer PC would live long enough to USE it in their career.

Is B/X available from lulu?

Any tips on running Play by post games?

I am sure this could be it's on entire thread. But I only trust people in this thread to give me valuable advice.

>>51091926
>Dungeon World
>OSR
You need to see somebody about that Int drain

>>51094907
Haven't ever done PbP it but I would definitely use simultaneous combat.

>>51094943
>simultaneous combat.
Interesting, never heard of that. Any links to specific articles I can read? I'll be doing some research.

Are there any systems that are optimized for PbP, OSR or otherwise? I've had some really good games using Wushu but Wushu is just a couple of lines above completely freeform RP.

>>51094614

I do too.

>>51094763

I think the bast thing one can do with OSR stuff is adapt it to your sensibilities, since nothing is ever going to be perfect as presented. In my own in-progress rework of the material, I'm setting up an adventure area around an inner sea with a bunch of city states with crazy forms of government and some stuff liberally stolen from Gor.

>>51094835

I wouldn't even use it. Everyone is a Fighter, and everyone can learn Sorcery. Done.

>>51095033
>I think the bast thing one can do with OSR stuff is adapt it to your sensibilities, since nothing is ever going to be perfect as presented. In my own in-progress rework of the material, I'm setting up an adventure area around an inner sea with a bunch of city states with crazy forms of government and some stuff liberally stolen from Gor.
I understand that, it's just that there's so much adapting I'd have to do for a Carcosa game I question the utility of the book itself. More power for you if it worked out, but I have trouble seeing how.

>>51094284
>after you've spent all that snek man gold on every color of prostitute (and maybe even a space alien or two) and you've managed to cobble together an arsenal of rayguns and take over some warlord's "stronghold" of 300 persons, what else is there to do except die horribly?
I remember reading a post by McKinney where he suggested nuking Shub-Niggurath as a possible endgame -- it's theoretically possible to do so with the stuff contained on the map. Shub-Niggurath is also stated or heavily implied to be at the bottom of a megadungeon full of spawned horrors, so in a D&D-gameplay context it makes sense. Still...

Personally I think the easiest solution is to make Carcosa itself an evil and decadent but functional and inhabitable city which functions as a home base for PCs. You could probably even get a lot of mileage out of PCs prying at the mysterious disconnect between the state of the city and the rest of the world.

>>51094763
>most of the material is just so useless without tinkering I wonder why buy it at all instead of just sticking to the metal concept
This I don't get at all, though. The psionics rules are the best ever, even if one finds the sorcery gross in its basic details the basic concept for it is amazing and he's done the huge work of implementing it, the hexcrawl's solid and the various other stuff (robots, rayguns, grey alien tech) is great too. There's a ton of out-of-the-box usable material.

The only thing I think is really flawed in its design is the dice conventions, because randomizing the damage die rolled for each attack is both super cumbersome AND precisely counteracts the randomness of rolling your hit die size. You can just as well skip the entire size-randomization part and just keep the "roll your HD in the beginning of each encounter part", and that's exactly what I do.

>>51094835
>Also the Sorcerer class is pretty much completely and utterly useless to PCs. Like, "why even present it as an option, just have sorcerer NPCs" useless. The requirements to do any magic whatsoever are just so insane it's inconceivable any sorcerer PC would live long enough to USE it in their career.
Plain wrong. Actually, not only that, but it's one of the most consistently functional motivators in the entire setting. Players can, will and have performed rituals.

>>51095088
Look through the Barf Froth Apocalyptica forums for a surprisingly brilliant little game called The Last Hours of Yhtill. It's a heavily ceremonialized, creepy game about playing decadent nobles in the crumbling city of Yhtill in the literal final hours before the King in Yellow arrives, reality breaks down and it turns into Carcosa. It starts with strange, ethereal masquerades in Halls of Gold and Lapis Lazuli, and all goes down from there as the debauched city dominos into insanity, depravity, mass murder and eventually cosmic destruction.

>>51095073

Like this anon >>51095088 I think there's a lot of usable material out of the box. The robots, spawn of Shub Niggurath, and space alien tech are all great stuff that can be plundered as a toolbox for just about anything you want to do, so it has that going for it at least.

In my own reworking of the material, I'm using Vornheim to create the city states.

>>51095088

I don't think the dice conventions help either. They slow down play in my experience.

>>51095127

The power of sorcery being a motivation unto itself is one of the reasons I think sorcery is good.

>>51095162
>Look through the Barf Froth Apocalyptica forums
But I hate Vincent Baker, everything he stands for, and everything he's associated with!
It's because Seclusium of Orphone was so disappointing

>>51095127
Hey, it works for Stormbringer. The Sorcerer class itself is so naff, though. I agree with >>51095033
>I wouldn't even use it. Everyone is a Fighter, and everyone can learn Sorcery. Done.

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>>51094763
>>51094651
>>51094284
>>51094108
>>51095073
>>51095088
I use Caracosa as an outpost of the Dreamlands, where decadent survivors of the last magic apocalypse hid out and waited for things to get better. And then got fucked over by their own bastardy and overuse of magic. Some of them escaped to Voivodja, which is an attempt by the Caracosans to create a realm comfortable for themselves.

The King in Yellow is one of a number of powerful rulers who used symbolism to avoid true-name magic. The Colorless Queen, the Cards, and the Queens in Red and Black are all native Caracosans. The Realm of the Twelve Medusas is on the other side from Earth. Not in an "east to west" sense, but more of an "other side of the mirror" sense.

The wealth of Caracosa is dreamstuff, but not completely symbolic, and the magic there is constrained by custom and the dangers of playing with Chaos in a realm where thinking too hard can distort reality. Which is why dumping Terran PCs into it is so much fun. especially if they piss off the cats..

>>51095162
http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=7514.0

One of the cleverer uses of the gamist nature of the Powered by the Apocalypse engine. The game takes place in two Acts, each 13 Hours long, counting down to the arrival of the King in Yellow. Over those 26 hours, disaster engulfs the city as feuds spiral into duels, hatred into murder attempts, death into familywide tragedy, orgies into riots and riots into civil war. The moves all change in Act 2, with each one having a direr form in which it's no longer possible to succeed without consequence and the consequences become worse and less controllable.

And in the end, everyone loses. It's only a matter of whether you went down in a fire.

>>51095260
Stormbringer allowed you to at least summon elementals fairly easily, so you can build up a sorcerous power base and gain some experience before advancing to more dangerous stuff. I don't remember if there's so much as a single ritual in Carcosa that doesn't require you to be in some highly specific, likely TPKingly dangerous location on an extremely unlikely time and make a mass sacrifice.

>>51094977
Here are the phases of a single round of combat in Moldvay's Basic D&D:

- Morale checks, if needed.
- Movement per round, meleed opponents may only move defensively (spell-casters may not move and cast spells).
- Missile fire combat.
- Magic spells.
- Melee or hand-to-hand combat.

To resolve combat phases simultaneously for all participants, you require a declaration of intent from each player at the beginning of each combat round. Once all players have posted their plans for the round you can resolve the action without additional input from the players. It's pretty simple really.

>>51094933

The guy asked for other systems for inspiration, he said nothing resembling "OSR only, guys!" And I notice you didn't say anything about him mentioning Torchbearer, which is about as close to OSR as Dungeon World.
Quit huffing memes, anon, it's causing brain damage.

>>51095341
>I don't remember if there's so much as a single ritual in Carcosa that doesn't require you to be in some highly specific, likely TPKingly dangerous location on an extremely unlikely time and make a mass sacrifice.
Most of the locations are fully harmless. Also, not a single banishing ritual requires sacrifice and all of them are the exact opposite of dangerous.

>>51095417
In anon's defense, the summoning rituals are probably the most memorable.

>>51090764
have you read Fantastic Heroes & Witchery's Firearms rules, I feel it makes early Firearms sufficiently deadly, and if you include the optional "Science-Fiction" weapons, then things get really deadly

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>>51091853
Whitehack, Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, Pars Fortuna, The Nightmares Underneath, Hideouts & Hoodlums, Microlite 74(including it's expansions)

>>51095441
Oh, yeah, definitely; I mean, they're the key all the other types of ritual hinge on. But, still, they mostly don't take place in dangerous places, just at very specific times or similar. Most of the danger comes from fucking up due to having bad information, or doing something wrong for some other reason e.g. getting interrupted.

Well, that and if you don't have a binding prepared you may have just made a free Lovecraftian horror appear right next to you.

I used the setting of this module for flesh out Carcossa:
http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG3401.php

The idea was that the Emperor send the PCs to retrieve Orlando's sanity, which was basically the legendary hero's brain stolen by the mi-go.

>>51095453
>have you read Fantastic Heroes & Witchery's Firearms rules
nope.
is that in the trove?

>>51095798 here
found it, gonna take a look

>>51095763
Is that the one where Rabbi Lowe of Prague is the local Jewish Elminster?

>>51095979
More or less. He is one of the rival factions and the golem is certainly a meat grinder if you aren't careful.

>>51095500
>Whitehack
interesting

>Fantastic Heroes & Witchery and Hideouts & Hoodlums
Will check them

>Pars Fortuna and The Nightmares Underneath
Both have free rulebooks, great (no images though). Pars Fortuna is from the same people who made Blood & Treasure? I didn't like the later, hope this one is better.

>Microlite 74
I forgot about this one! Already read it, it isn't on my OSR folder tho, don't know why, maybe I deleted it

Why the dislike for Blood & Treasure? So far as retroclones go it's a fairly nice balance of minimalism and depth.

>>51096257
It's a cross between 2E (not oldschool) and 3E (utterly antithetical to oldschool), that's why.

>>51096307
Thought oldschool was a philosophy, not a system?

>>51096413
In a way it is, but
• that philosophy isn't equally well served by every system, and
• to the exact extent it's a philosophy, system's got nothing to do with it, so why would that side of it make people more likely to talk about Blood & Treasure than about 7th Sea, 4E or GURPS?

When someone says "this system is not oldschool", what he means is "this system does not, or I feel it does not, aid an oldschool playstyle, and may even get in the way a bunch".

>>51096257
I imagine it's cause while it has a lot of content, it's also kinda bland compared to most other OSR games

>>51096307
quiet you, we do not need more of those pointless "What is OSR" arguments ruining yet another OSR General

honestly at this point the only definition for what makes something OSR that even remotely works is that it has to be vaguely compatible with most other systems labled OSR and/or was published by TSR

>>51096413
>Race-AND-classes, not races-as-classes
>classes looks to much like 3e classes, but in the same time they don't bring interesting mechanics do diferentiate them
>Goes up to level 20, not my taste, I prefer lower levels
>Feats
>bland, not even one defining feature, why would I run this over other retroclones?

>>51096763
meant to >>51096257

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So how do you do combat maneuvers? Things other then attacks like grapples, disarming the enemy, pushing them away, slamming them to stun, knocking them to the ground, throwing sand in their face and so on.

I'm really not sure what system to use, but I have a few ideas. For one thing I want it to be a good option that anyone can use and that's useful, that something the Fighter is 'best' at but not the only one that can do it. (No mighty deeds dice, please.)

Currently I have two concepts;
>Sacrifice your attack, do a combat move
>Roll 19 or 20 on attack roll, get to do a free combat move against the enemy after you attack (this range increases for Fighters as they level)
>You get a combat move EVERY round along with your attack, for free

The last one I think is the most interesting though chaotic option. What do you think?

*three concepts

>>51096987
>What do you think?
I think both of your options #2 and #3 sound a lot like less good/manageable (a combat move every round, guaranteed?!) versions of just giving everyone a Mighty Deed die, but letting the Fighter's die be the biggest/the only one to increase. Honestly despite your embargo this is what I'd suggest, just handle it the same way hit dice work.

>>51096987
Player declares a maneuver and rolls their attack with Disadvantage (i.e. they roll the attack twice). If both hit, they perform the maneuver AND deal their damage. If one hits, they perform the maneuver OR deal their damage. If both miss, something bad happens (use your game's rules for fumbles, or just make something up Dungeon World style).

>>51096987
If the move is especially powerful, the player has to succeed with two to-hit rolls (but if a natural 20 is hit then that's enough)
Is the move is just something different, then only a normal to-hit roll is required.

>>51096987
I do a modified version of DCCs Mighty Deeds.

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Well, I finally got to work writing down and codifying my Fighter feats. Sadly I only kept the most grounded and 'conservative' ones. Still, it's looking alright so far.

>>51097266
>If one hits, they perform the maneuver OR deal their damage.
Uhhhhhhhh
That effectively means being able to always attack for damage with Advantage, p. bad rule if you ask me.

>>51098166

>always

If you spam it, you're gonna get tagged by a double miss sooner or later. If the DM uses those Dungeon World DM & dungeon moves like the guy suggested, then believe me, it's gonna smart.

>>51098166
Then just ignore the
>OR deal their damage
part.

Let's say Clerics get a new ability, replacing their spellcasting, where once per level they can pray to their God for a very powerful divine miracle. It's essentially like a limited wish or freeform magic, but its only a limited time and limited to once per level.

Does it make sense to rename Clerics to something else, like a Prophet or Zealot?

>>51098729
>replacing spellcasting with a once per level ability

would make them considerably weaker. Doesn't matter if it's super special awesome ability, being able at most to use your unique skill 10-14 times ever (if that, since most of the time it's going to be 1-3 times before the campaign ends or the character dies) sounds absolutely terrible.

>>51098729
>Does it make sense to rename Clerics to something else, like a Prophet or Zealot?
It depends. If you leave their attack progression, hit die, XP progression, lack of armor restrictions, Turn Undead etc. untouched, then no. If you muck with those, then probably yes.

However, >>51098814 is right about the advisability of your plan per se. So my suggestion is also that you don't do it.

>>51098814
>>51099034

You guys don't like interesting characters?

>>51099122
What kind of comment is that? I'd imagine they find new classes interesting when they are actually thought out.

>>51089478
Can a duke even tax peasantry? Thought that peasant was usually the same thing as a serf, who doesn't have his own money or actually own anything, even his own house and the clothes on his back belong to whatever lord owns his land.

Unless it does include freemen, was never sure about that.

>>51099122
I like well-thought out mechanics. Which your idea clearly isn't.
From a mechanical perspective, once per level mechanics are impossible to balance properly compared to the other capabilities of the class
from an in-game fluff perspective, they make no sense.
from a player actually playing the class perspective they are not interesting.

Like, I'm not opposed to a remake of the cleric class called oracle or zealot, nor am I opposed to the idea of replacing regular spellcasting with praying for a miracle.

Rather than mucking about with once per level stuff why not just make it a cleric version of mighty deed of arms?

>you have a prayer dice. Starts at d6, increases 1 size every odd level up to d12.
>when you pray, roll your prayer dice. If you roll 5 or more, your god answers your prayer in some way
>if used for healing, a successful prayer heals the a number of prayer dice in HP equal to one half your level. This healing can only be used once per day per level of cleric.

>>51099425

Nope, peasants were a step up from serfs.

What's everyone's opinion on AD&D 2nd Edition? I don't hear it talked about much here.

>>51099425
Peasant did pay for the right to work on the lord's land, either a share of profits or sharecropping. That's sort of the whole point, lord has been so generous to let you work on his land, it's only fair that you share the results of your labour.

Suddenly going into the darkest cave filled with all sorts of terrors isn't so bad after all.

>>51099425
>Can a duke even tax peasantry?
Yes and no. Monetary taxation was right out, not least because most peasants literally never had any money at all, they just had goods and bartered them. However they owed their lord a certain number of days of labor, which was considered a tax at that time; the lord would then use some of that labor to make stuff that he could then sell via merchants to burghers or other rich persons.

Also, for most of the middle ages the days of work owed were between one week and fifteen days. In other words your obligations to the "state" were LOW AS FUCK.

>Unless it does include freemen, was never sure about that.
By definition if you're a freeman you're not under tax lien to a lord, you only owe land rent, and that was always low. If you own your own land (which is permitted), then you don't even owe that. The *crown* was allowed to tax you and you had to pay certain other taxes like the salt tax, but not the local lord.

>>51099641
>well steve, it's true I saw 4 of me mates die horrible deaths by various horrifying monsters, and that I lost half me arm, an eye, and I can't stop jittering whenever in a dark room, but I'm rich now! I got a whole 10 gold pieces! Real gold! and I don't have to pay that stinking duke a single copper!

and then the poor level 1 fighter with 6 int gets stabbed with a pitchfork in his sleep so steve can steal his 10 gold.

>>51099615
>I don't hear it talked about much here.
Because it's not old-school, so it doesn't belong here. Old-style D&D was kill during the lifespan of 1E; usually DL1 is used as the cutoff point, for convenience.

>>51099615
Since 2e introduces a whole lot of unbalanced and wacky players' options and the modules shifted the focus to plot-based adventuring, it's considered not-OSR and isn't too lauded here. The consensus is that it produced alright / good / great settings.

>>51099615
It's pretty cool.

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>>51099615

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>>51099122
>You guys don't like interesting characters?
No, it isn't interesting, it's Babby's First Class stupidity.

It's bad game design, on several fronts.
1) There are no guidelines to make a ruling off of.
2) It allows one character to literally pull a Deus Ex Machina out of his asshole without any chance of failure, as you describe it.
3) I don't like giving players access to a 7th-level spell (Miracle) at first level, and (ironically) having that power get weaker and weaker as they level up and get it less and less frequently.
4) Have you ever tried adjucating "free-form" magic? At all? It's a massive pain in the ass, and boils down to an hour of lawyering as the players work out their wording and the GM quietly facepalms.

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Has anyone tried this? It seems interesting. I've never played Rules Lite or OSR systems, but I'd like to try this if I can find anyone to play.

>>51097915
Getting these every level seems like a a bit much. You should qualify if Feats can be repeated/taken more than once.

>>51099615
many people don't feel it has a proper Old School vibe to it, although in my opinion it's definitely OSR(but then my definition of OSR is fairly lax by the standards of these threads)

>>51099908
I've ran it at my table for a quick one-off. The game played just fine, but if you already have a firm grasp of any B/X type system, there's really no point in using it. If you wanna run something super light, maybe try The Black Hack (I personally don't like how over simplified it is. It's like the Chutes & Ladders of OSR.)

>>51099908
seems okay, although I prefer Microlite74 or Whitehack when it comes to ultralite OSR play

>>51099750
>Since 2e introduces a whole lot of unbalanced and wacky players' options
not until the supplements, though. Core isn't too bad.

>>51099908

It's pretty badly designed IMO. I guess I should have saved the critique I wrote up since this thing is going to keep popping up, but it wasn't all that exhaustive anyway -- I only got like halfway through before I got tired of pointing out all the problems and just gave up on it.

>>51099908
The Searchers of the Unknown variants are superior to this.

>>51099908
Why can you pick elite weapons when you create a character? That removes the reason to have normal weapons, doesn't it?

>>51100036
Kek, I remembered which ultralight variant it was based on this complaint. I reacted to the exact same thing right away when I read it.

>>51100036

That's just the first of the problems. Elite weapons are in your starting gear choices and are absolutely better than everything else, with the possible exception of the artillery weapons if your GM gives you the 4d6, maybe. But the save for half damage makes it likely that Elite is still better than Artillery.

>>51099908
>no accounting
>no equipment tracking
>xp is session based or optionally monster killing based


How is this OSR at all?

>>51100121
It's about as OSR as Searchers of the Unknown, which is to say not in the slightest.

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Should you get XP when you spend your gold or just when it is recovered from the dungeon?

I ask because I really want to include a houserule where players get +10% more XP if they spend their money on frivolous shit. Basically try to encourage them to act like a bunch of medieval rockstar adventurers would.

>>51100295
http://jrients.blogspot.co.nz/2008/12/party-like-its-999.html
have a read of this for some ideas

>>51100295
>Should you get XP when you spend your gold or just when it is recovered from the dungeon?
I prefer to give their xp when they have successfully returned from their adventure and are in a relatively safe city.

>Basically try to encourage them to act like a bunch of medieval rockstar adventurers would.
I prefer to have my players behave like pirates and try to find safe places to bury their massive treasure hoards.

>>51100295
How do people feel about getting 1:1 gold to xp for getting the treasure back to town, and then spending gold on useless bullshit gives you an extra 2:1 gold to xp?
I like the idea of the players hiring a taxidermist to stuff the owlbear they killed, but I also like the idea of them keeping the golden statue and setting it up in their base or wearing the ruby dragon pendent they found off the evil wizard.

>>51100513
it's fine if you're playing a system that doesn't have a gold sink already built in.

if you're playing games that allows crafting, hiring mercs and henchmen or some other stuff, players should probably spend that gold on useful stuff.

>>51100513
>>51100645

I sort of like the idea of encouraging players to spend on vanity projects, but also spending on useful stuff.

So like the first Anon said; 1;1 gold XP for returning it to town, then bonus XP for spending on frivolous stuff.

Truthfully speaking its hard to encourage one without the other because you know some players will only bank and spend their gold on useful upgrades and hirelings where as others will give it to the poor, improve the campaign world, or just blow it on retarded but fun stuff.

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What abilities do you give your thieves and rogues?

>>51100875
None, thief class was a mistake

>>51100875
The ability to fuck off and not exist. They're not OSR and should not be treated as such.

>>51100875
I mean, for the most part I use whatever system's skills are available (I run LotFP and DCC.)

>>51100935
>>51100917
Thief class is best class.

>>51100917
>>51100935

Kill
Your
Selves

>>51100917
>>51100935
do people with opinions like this actually play games with other people, or do you just wank over houserules on forums all day?

>>51100966
Thief means skills means builds means new school. It's not OSR. If you don't like it there's plenty of other games.

>>51100957
>>51100948
>>51100966
lol the most popular retroclone replaced the thief class with the specialist and everyone loves it

how is the thief a good class again?

>>51100966
I was just memeing, this is one of the most easy baits here

>>51101016

The Thief and the Specialist are just the same thing.

In fact making the Specialist into a Thief but keeping the skills means an actual buff, hopefully making the Thieves more useful.

Look, meme about builds and new school all you want, but there's a STRONG precedent for Thief archetype in the related fiction. Yes, it was poorly implemented AND explained, but then again almost everything in OD&D was poorly explained.

Personally I don't like Cleric but I don't feel like reducing everything to two classes, might as well use something like "Everyone is an Adventurer" at this point.

>>51101016
Literally the same niche, only more versatile and better. The implementation matters.

Changing thief skills to

>roll under dex, with modifiers depending on what you are doing

Thoughts? Or should I just go with roll under d6?

>>51101016
Because it provides means to accomplish things other classes aren't adept in? Your fighter can loudly bash a door down and a wizard might have a spell to unlock a door, but a thief can quietly pop the lock. A thief has better finesse to pickpocket or be a proper scout. To argue against that by saying "All adventurers should be able to do those things" is like arguing "All classes should be great fighters or have the ability to cast spells." The thief fills a niche.

The only thing wrong with the OG thief was the abysmal chances to do your job right.

How are ACKS Thiefs? Are they any good?

>>51100295

I’ve got some weird ideas.

Starting a new sandbox, outpost on the border of the falling empire, yada yada, the usual deal. There’s one merchant who sells bare necessities, the only defense is small but experienced ranger squad and you can actually run out of hirelings. This sad situation will continue until the players poor the gold into the economy.

But since the gold influx can’t solve everything, I decided to give out XP for magic items that are given for the good of the community. Some sort of wards, scrying stuff, something that can help with the water supply, anything that can be used. Mostly inspired by Numenera which doesn’t really do anything that D&D can’t do but has some nice magic items’ lists.

All of this will attract merchants with rare stuff, skilled mercenaries and so on. I guess carousing works too.

>>51101016
lol. it's literally the same thing with condensed skills and new skill options.

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>>51101161

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>>51101127

Makes Dexterity too important. I don't like roll under stats for any kind of roll.

Instead I'm doing a sort of universal thief skill number, but add a modifier for skill and stat. Ie; climbing skill of 2 + Str modifier of +1 + thief number. It's very rough right now but it means thieves can basically do whatever they want and don't have to 'build' too much into various skills to do it well.

I also like having sneak attack abilities. Add your level to your to-hit on the first (surprise) round of combat. If you go over 20 add that many over 20 to your damage too. Works with ranged weapons or close ranged.

Also I'm giving thieves a 'hunch' roll. Roll d20 and keep it for later, use it if you want to on any d20 roll. One per level, rolled at the start of an adventurer. So if you roll a 19 and a 1 you can use the 1 on your next saving throw and the 19 on a random attack if you so desire. It gives them a mechanic to stimulate luck without something lame like rerolling.

Pretty big grab-bag of thief abilities. Personally I wish I had a more universal way to implement them but this a good way to make them feel useful, powerful, and decent at fighting next to the other characters, all of which can contribute something.

>>51091853
Do you have Blood & Treasure 2nd Edition Monster?

>>51101270
>Makes Dexterity too important
This only for thieves, and dex is already their major stat, but I see your point.

>universal thief skill number
Do you mean like the same chance (under x in d6) fo every skill (excluding stat mods)? There is a retroclone, White Box, that does something similar to this:

>No skills, just thievery
>DM decides when thievery applies
>At level 1 you succeed if you roll 2 or less on a d6
>at level 4 its 3 or less on a d6
>at level 7 its 4 or less
>5 or less at max level (10)

>>51101306
Fucking stop, dude. No-one has it yet.

>>51101306
No, I don't, I got B&T last year, and it was a pain to find it

>>51101394

I would use a d20 for a smoother curve but sure, that works too. Start them off at 8, then add +1 a level. Or maybe if you want to be Pathfinder about it, they either get +2 skill points to random skills or +1 to thievery.

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>>51101127
Use Dex mod, not Dex. If you want Dex to be more powerful than that, use a d12 system.

>>51101220
>Okay, now for the next item on our top priority agenda: how to fix the Thief
>How about if we switch their skills from that pesky d100 to d20?
>Brilliant! Okay do that, the rest of us will sit down and crunch these numbers to make the economy 100% consistent and credible

What the fuck were they THINKING???

>>51101016
The specialist makes the thief more likely to succeed at their shit, sure, but it still has the problem of making skills really important, and puts die rolls on shit that all adventurers should probably be able to do, like climbing and sneaking.

>>51101681
>What the fuck were they THINKING???
Thief was a mistake

>>51101650
d12 systems have never worked.

>>51101777
>d12 systems have never worked.
In terms of the influence of your attributes, it's a nice compromise between rolling directly against your attribute score, and merely applying your modifier to a d20 roll.

The bonus an 18 (+3) stat gives you:
Roll directly vs. attribute on d20 = +40%
Apply modifier to d20 roll = +15%
Apply modifier to d12 roll = +25%

>>51091116
>Now I have a stupid idea: if exploded dice result in a more damage than maximum possible damage from a natural roll, it hurts the shooter.
Doesn't it do that anytime it explodes? Though I'm not opposed to the basic idea.

>>51095280
This is good.

>>51097542
which is what?

What system gives the best Fighter advancement? No feats or DCC bullshit please.

>>51101220
The interesting bit is that 18+ is the standard "do the thing" roll for everybody in ACKS. (I don't think you can actually do all the Thief skill actions without Thief skills or a proficiency, though).

Also proficiencies are available to give yourself a +2 bonus to whatever one of those you want to specialise in. Still doesn't make you much less shit, but still, you can get to a 1 in 4 chance of opening a lock at level 1.

>>51101306
God damn, every OSR and PDF share thread this guy is begging for this PDF. Why don't you *gasp* BUY it if you want it so badly?

>>51102340
if we're not counting DCC, then probably either ACKS or The Nightmares Underneath

>>51102346
>you can get to a 1 in 4 chance of opening a lock at level 1.
That's bogus, though, I had at least a 3 in 4 chance of opening a lock in one exploration turn in high school, and that was with a flattened paperclip and a screwdriver, not a nice set of lockpicks.

>>51102340
Same question but for Thieves. What system gives the best Thief advancement, minus DCC bullshit?

>tfw Thieves suck even in 3E

>>51102639
... "What system gives the best Thief advancement, minus DCC bullshit?"

So you're calling DCC "bullshit" because it has the best Thief advancement?

>>51102620
Don't think OSR games are aiming for realism.

>>51102596
>The Nightmares Underneath
I personally don't like fighters not being able to miss

>>51102340
What exactly are you looking for if you want Fighter advancement, in an OSR game, without feats or "dcc bullshit"? Sounds like you need to just pick a core system and house rule it. Most OSR fighters advancement is by way of more HP and sometimes they get bonus attacks vs low HD creatures.

>>51102840
There are maneuvers, this may differ for each game

>>51102860
Is maneuvers how they spell feats where you're from?

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>>51102883
I'm talking about basic D&D actions only fighters (and dwarves and elves) can take, combat maneuvers

>>51102596
He doesn't like anything that smells like feats, so ACKS is not an option.

That said, Proficiencies aside, the Cleave rules do make Fighters fucking metal in ACKS.

>>51102620
>B... but I could open that door!

Shut up and take your mandated wandering monster rolls, peasant.

>>51103156
>ACKS Proficiencies
Just ignore them, no big deal

>>51102639

Have you looked at the Complete Warlock thief? I mean it'd need a cleanup, because honestly it looks like it was typed up in a single coke-fueled session on a typewriter in 1979 (which it probably was), but even with some of the dumb abilities he's still kind of a badass.

>>51102639
I'm not familiar with DCC, but 2e's point-buy system is the best of the official TSR ones.

>>51103643
Oh man, CW thief is baller. It would defs need work to make it work with B/X or whatever, but not that much.

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Wait, we don't have Anomalous Subsurface Environment Levels 2-3 in the Trove? Someone should remedy this situation.

>>51104073
True, but no one ever makes the motions to do so.

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>>51103643

>>51104159
>List does not include 7th level abilities but notes the thief gets them
Wut

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>>51102395
You know what would be better than some false edition house rule edition would be TSR modules

https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/periodicals/agindex.html

>>51104128
It'll have to be someone less destitute then me.

>>51100875
I remove thief from my games.

>>51100966
Sure. I honestly do believe that the thief class and the stupid ass skill system it adds to the game make the game a lot worse. That's why I don't let my players play thieves. Plus I don't have to deal with players who think they should have backstab damage all the time.

Reminder that the only reason the Thief wasn't in OD&D is that Blackmoor and Greyhawk did them differently, and the LBBs only contained the commonalities between them.
(Shame Arneson never wrote down how he did thieves in Blackmoor.)

All these arguments over classes make me consider letting players play with a bunch of specific classes.

But how do I keep players from being overwhelmed from choices? Should I maybe give them a choice to just roll for their class or fill out a questionaire?

>>51104880
Just give them a big list to choose from.

>>51104880
Just ask them about character concept.
-I wanna play as guy who furiously fists enemies to death but also a great cook!
-Ok, here's rules for being a Carcosian Fisting Chef.

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>>51104684
Ironically, in LotFP I give Fighters 2 points in Backstab. I figure they're more "murderer" than "ninja". It also gives fighters fun things to do in a surprise round, especially the player who has brass knuckles disguised as a set of rings and a derringer.

A Specialist who goes "Rangery" with a bow, high Bushcraft/Stealth, and a good hiding position is also a straight-up murder machine if he can land sneak attacks.

>>51105476
>especially the player who has brass knuckles disguised as a set of rings
That reminds me about that one time one of my players spent money on cheap enchanted rings just to punch ghosts to death. 'Cause, you know, technically it is a magic weapon...

>>51105701
That's...

But...

Damn, now I'm jealous...

>>51104919

How do I keep them from being overwhelmed then? Just giving a list of like 50 classes seems too much to dump on a player.

Also multiclassing- yes or no?

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>>51105701
>>51105711
Yeah, I have some creative fuckers. One of the perennial favorites is trying to use Nystul's Magic Aura or Continual Light to "enchant" weapons on the cheap. Although the time one of them beat a Werewolf to death with a silver Decanter of Endless Water was too damned funny not to roll with.

>>51105728
Yes, if there's, like, 5 or so classes(not including race-as-class).
No, if there's like 50 of them, since chances are one of them already does that.

>>51105728
I recommend starting out with an edition of D&D (or a clone) of your choice as written. If you then find something lacking, go ahead and add it.

>>51105728
Depends. First off, the best way to do a bunch of classes is race-and-class: player has to make only one decision about the character, so it's easier to assess what he wants. Also there's no room for purposefuly wacky, orc-wizard type combos. Yes, class restrictions based on race are a thing, but if you do a lot of classes, how much restrictions do you want to set in stone? It's a lot of work.

So, decide this:

1) Race and class or race-as-class
2) If the former, decide on restrictions and the number of classes shouldn't excel like, 12 or so.
3) If the latter, it's your chance to let loose, use weird FLAILSNAILS classes, specific race classes, all of that good stuff. Make three general categories: something like ACKS core / campaign / demihuman classes.

Also I don't need to remind of class identity issues. Think about what class brings to the table.

>>51105728
Sorry, meant
>race AS class
in the first paragraph.

Right, I forgot. So in race-as-class multiclassing isn't a thing. Race-and-class systems experience suggests that a lot of options + multiclassing results jn classes being treated like building blocks instead of archetypes. I wouldn't recommend it. But if your classes are broad enough? Sure, try it. For me it's always more problem than it's worth.

Is there a consolidated list of B/X monsters in a compact table format?

>>51105937
B/X Monster Reference Index on Drivethru.

>>51105954
I don't want anything that's not in B/X and that seems to have stuff from all over the place.

>>51105701
>punch ghosts to death
In retrospect, that sounds dumb.

>>51106006

To be fair, ghosts needing to be hit with 'magic' weapons is stupid anyway. Either make the ghost temporarily or permanently killed by all weapons OR make them immune to all damage except for stuff like giving their bones their last rites or clerics praying at them. I think most people in the 'new school' osr like magic weapons that do stuff other then just having +1 to hit and damage.

>>51106539
Um... I meant that ghost are already dead, so saying "to death" is kind of... wrong?

>>51104247
Yeah, the book doesn't cover seventh level abilities, so I guess you'd have to make something up in the unlikely event of your character attaining 17th level.

>>51104880
Maybe give a relatively manageable list of primary classes (no more than a dozen or so) with the rest being labeled as variants or sub-classes. You could maybe have a outline-style table with the primary classes as the main headers (in boldface or big letters or something that make them stand out) and the secondary classes as sub-entries below each one, along with a very short description like: "fighter with light armor and limited spell casting". That way, a player selects the primary class he's most interested in and narrows things down from there. If you wanted 50 classes, that could mean 10 primary classes, each with 4 subclasses, which seems a bit more manageable.

Of course, there is the issue of what to do with, say, fighter/magic-users, if they're equal parts fighters and magic-users. Maybe you make them lean to one side or the other, or maybe you simply list them under both fighters and magic-users.

>>51107160
Pulled this already but it's still top good.

>>51095500
what relation is the Whitehack with The Black Hack?

>>51107703
Coincidental. Both are OSR, so that's also a thing.

>>51107703
Whitehack is referencing the white box, Black Hack is referencing the creator's last name, and maybe white box as well.

>>51107703
First time I encountered "Hack" in a game's name was a Red Box Hack and Old School Hack which is based on the former and is more popular.

That's where the naming convention for Whitehack and DESU probably comes from but they're not related.

Has anybody used Searcher of the Unknown for a full campaign? How'd that go?

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>>51108639
I'm currently doing it for a solo play by email game. I haven't ran into any snags yet, though my player has managed to avoid pretty much every single monster while exploring the decrepit dwarven noble's mansion he's currently stuck in so I haven't had a chance to test combat.
There's an expanded version of the game available on Lulu, though it's oddly missing the morale rules. They're not difficult to port back in at least.

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>>51106006

Smile when you say that, nerd.

>>51105728
I'm currently working up a campaign setting for ACKS so I'm including a quick list of relevant Templates in the description for each region. So Big Urban City has lots of Assassin and Bard types, while Arthurian Bullshit Land has lots of Fighter and Paladin templates.

>>51094907
As a PbP DM, you determine the pace of the game even more so than at the tabletop. Be aware of that, and keep the game fresh by making every post interesting by being descriptive and flavorful while giving your players enough options for everyone to have something to do. Keep it short and to the point, though: player's are not waiting to read through pages of your amateur prose.

What do you guys think about using feats instead of having +1/2/3 weapons and armors for characters ?

Me and my group dosent like having boring magical items that gives like +3/+3, we would rather have 1d6 life link / fire dmg / 1 in 6 stun chance ect.

And when i mean feats i dont mean 3,pf feats and stuff like that, feats like stat boost and similar to AD&D weapon specialization.

>>51107703
none besides them both being "Hacks" of preexisting games

>>51114047
My reply isn't useful to you but since enough people mentioned that they don't like the standard magic items before, I have a suggestion for those people:

>Tired of boring +X weapons
>want to have some more variety in your magic items, while still avoiding the D&D 4e way of having every single magic item have an active special power?
>then try the random magic item creation tables from the AD&D Diablo 2 awakening book!

The book itself is terrible in many ways but the random magic item creation tables are pretty fun. A lot of the results might be just passive stat things but

>>51114665
>A lot of the results might be just passive stat things but
forgot to finish sentence
>but they're at least much more varied in what bonuses they can provide

>>51114047
By all means but I would tie it to the magic items still. The blandness of +1/2/3 stuff makes it incredibly easy to replace it by whatever you've cooked up.

Any Trove folks around? 'Cause I posted a bunch of stuff last month that hasn't shown up in the inbox yet, and I'm itching to clear the excess space out of my Mega.

>>51114834
Just share it, TroveGuy will most likely pick that up soon.

>>51115081

I've already posted it three times in the past month, though. That's why I was hoping he (or the other guy) was around so I could find out if he's grabbed it or not. (I've got some time today and want to file all this stuff away on my drive and clear out the Mega's inbox so I can deal with the next batch of stuff.)

https://mega.nz/#F!xVdz0IrB!oSBtajYqiOMr06o6cd79lA

The Trove stuff should all be in the "OSR and Related" folder.

>>51115182
Pretty sure trove has some of its stuff but thanks for sharing, there're new things as well.

File: 50 ways to Fluff Magic Missile.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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Anyone want any fluff?

>>51117127

Thank you, table anon, you are humble and lovable.

>>51117127
how about 50 types of Beastmen?

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>>51117605
Seconding this!

>>51117605
>>51117714
50 types of legs, 50 types of torso and 50 types of head for beastmen

Has either of the obvious "50 traps" and "50 puzzles" been done yet?

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>>51114688
>>51114665
I will also, again suggest the tables in Seclusium of Orphone. They take some interpretation, and they're largely inappropriate for weapons (unless you want a fucking >hilarious< genius for a magic sword), but they make for excellent item powers. Some samples:

Necklace that gelds eunuchs by sapping their sexual pleasure/orgone and channeling it to the ruler instead of rendering them infertile.

Ikon of Solomon, when placed in a library it boosts "Bookspeak" and answers up to three questions fully per day using >all< of the books in the library as sources.

Oak of Prophecy. Acorns may be eaten to grant a hallucinogenic vision, offering a true prophecy which will grant success in one course of action. The prophecy will be biased to create the maximum possible amount of bloodshed in the course of that success.

A pectoral collar, a gift from a spirit, which whisks the bearer away to its boudoir and gates in a bonded slave or minor summoned creature to take his place if he would ever be rendered helpless. Including if he falls alseep. Requires a bonding ritual for each slave/spirit, and, if destroyed, will catastrophically gate in the wizards plasmic lover.

A great pagan temple-fane, carefully circumscribed by standing stones and glass walls. Hedges out Lawful plasmic entities, and allows the use of certain Lawful magic (non-reversed Clerical spells) with appropriate sacrifices. Counts as a 1000sp Laboratory for a Clerical spellcaster, but gradually burns away all emotions of those present during rituals until only a fanatical zeal remains. The effect is lessened and spread the more persons are in attendance at each ritual.

File: 50 combat area Elements.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>51117605
>>51117714
>>51118461

Ahh, these are all so good! I'll see what I can do.

What do you guys like for a "ticking clock?"

I read a module recently that was a house party's that ended with a demon summoning. Players arrived at 9pm, demoned showed up at 12 (using IRL time keeping). That sounds a literal ticking clock, but in general I'm asking about devices for making sure that an end game is arrived at at a certain time or place (but with the outcome in doubt), barring player actions or choices that would preclude the event occurring.

Instead of giving the fighter a choice of feats, why not just make them roll on a random table each level to see what their bonus is?

>>51118813
England Upturn'd has a good published example of the kind of "clock" I use in my own adventures.
Basically, sketch out what the desired endgame looks like for each faction, and their interim goals. Give them a raw chance of succeeding or allying with other factions. For example, in your scenario two different people could both be trying to pull off the summoning due to a fortuitous astrological alignment, but both ALSO want control of the thing that will arrive. What are the odds they will give up their designs for total control if they discover the other's plans? Pool resources to deal with another interloper, and then slug it out between themselves? How desperate are they? Skilled? One could be fated to lose control because of flawed data, unless they steal the other's ritual gear and books by a certain time.. or are foolishly entrusted them by another character.
Another faction might think the astrological thing is hooey, but want to use the superstition to cover a few judicious murders (see: Clue and the original The House on Haunted Hill).

Basically, do a write-up like this (if it doesn't fit on a 3x5 card, or half a page of paper in 10-point type, probably you're making things too complicated).
Faction Name:
Key players (1-5 characters that are pivotal to its success)
Goals: Should be 1-2 sentences. E.G. "Kill ex-wife using legend as a cover-up", or "Summon Ose, sacrifice for wisdom"
Conditions: What >has< to happen to pull this off (NPC 1 alive to perform sacrifice, NPC 3 or another virgin helpless and under his power, in control of area 2E)
>(other side of card)
PC interactions/enemies.
Endgame (what happens if left alone)

Better Than Any Man is an example of a poorly-designed "clock". There, the Swedes have a 100% chance of accomplishing each goal on a stated date. PCs have essentially no chance of changing anything unless they release the Raggi-branded Sta-Puft Marshmallow Bug. That just leads to pissed-off players

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>>51100875
All character classes start with one "pip" on a d6 (i.e., 1-in-6 chance of success) in each the following skills, as per Labyrinth Lord:
>Tinker (pick locks, disable/set traps)
>Pilfer (pick pockets)
>Scout (find traps, hidden doors, and the like)
>Sneak (move silently and hide in shadows)
>Listen (detect creatures through doors, &c)
>Climb (self-explanatory)
>Comprehend (understand lost/forgotten languages)
>Use Magic Item (use wands, scrolls, &c)

Thieves are unique because they roll 2d6 when using these skills. If both d6s roll equal to or under the number of pips in the relevant skill, the thief succeeds; if only one d6 does, the thief achieves their goal, but with cost and/or complication. Only if neither d6 is equal to or under the number of pips does the attempt fail outright.

Additionally, each time a Thief gains a level, they add one pip to a skill of their choice (maximum of 5 pips per skill).

>>51118813
Not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but check out Fronts in Dungeon World. They're a great way to organize information about factions/threats in your game world, and they make it much easier to think on your feet about what happens next if the players dawdle or dither.

I haven't read England Upturn'd, but from what >>51119071 wrote it sounds very similar. Fronts also include "grim portents", which are specific events that occur to clue the players in to shit that's happening "backstage".

>>51118813
I designed a dungeon once that was especially vertical, and started filling with water shortly after the players arrived. The most valuable treasure, or course, was located in the bottommost levels—which encourages haste and recklessness on the part of the characters if they want to score big.

>>51119071
That just leads to pissed-off players

You ONLY know that if you are the GM or have read the adventure. No one is pissed off.

>>51119372
Or goofing off to find a working Apparatus of Kwalish.

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>>51119071
<cont>
Once you have your faction cards ready, run through them every hour or two of real-time (or game-time). I give my players a quick break for snacks/beers/piss breaks and quickly check to see what has changed. I keep a notebook at the table and sketch out what's happened so far and PC actions that might affect each faction. When we hit the break, or as necessary in-play, I'll roll for it, noting alterations to plans and new possible goals on the 3x5 cards. With experience, this will usually take around 5 minutes for a "haunted-house" style adventure where there are multiple factions and the clock literally is measured in a few in-game hours. For larger games, you can usually do this between sessions. Then it takes about half an hour IME. You will eventually want to expand the note space for a bigger game, so I keep small 50c folders (like for schoolwork) with each faction's notes and NPC cards inside. If the faction's a major player, I'll transcribe the notes onto larger sheets of paper and give NPCs a proper character sheet, but frankly most of them neither need nor last long enough for that sort of detail.

Pic is of one of my faction/campaign folders. Bottom front and center is a couple NPC cards with stats and interactions. The big thing in the back is the initial "clock" sketch listing all the factions and campaign feel notes. The half-full page is one of the basic "quick break" ones from my session notes.

>>51119422
That's the exact line of thinking that leads to the Shadow/Lying Darkness in Legend of the Five Rings.

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>>51119422
>>51119459
Bluntly, after a group of 12 PCs has lost half their number and spent two weeks and four sessions of in-game time to have literally everything interesting in the sandbox destroyed without recourse, it pisses them off. It makes them think there never WAS a chance (which is correct), and it's railroading bullshit of the first degree. If you run BTaM as-written, it'll piss off the majority of players, and I say that as someone who's run it more than once IRL. Tragic doom is one thing. Having literally no effect whatsoever on the endgame despite careful planning and enormous effort is another, and it's less "horrifying" than "frustrating and fucked up". See also: the Dragonlance modules killing off one of the PCs unavoidably, purely because he dies in the books.

Or, to put it another way, it pisses the players off in a "fuck this game, let's play 5e" way instead of "fuck Gustavus Adolphus, let's assassinate him". Even Death Frost Doom has a way around letting the undead out (even if it's a pain in the ass).

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>>51119672
<cont.>
The other thing about BTaM's endgame that makes it suck is that it's bad game design, pure and simple.
"Death Frost Doom", "No Salvation For Witches", "God that Crawls", and "England Upturn'd" all have Apocalypse Triggers that stimulate further adventure and encourage the players to try to stop them.

BTaM's Swedish Ending literally removes every possible source of XP and meaningful treasure from the sandbox. It kills adventuring and forces the players to move on, whether they want to or not. That is utter horseshit, and for both the players and DM, it's immensely unsatisfying.

Anyway, I'm gonna go back to cooking dinner and writing for a bit. And good luck to new faction-play anon, I hope you work out a useful system. If you want more tips or close-ups of my stuff, post and I'll get them in a few hours.

File: The Beastman Factory.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>51117605
>>51117714
>>51118253
Took a crack at making something for this.

Okay, so of Basic, B/X, and BECMI, which do you guys like the best? I know they're not that different. Of those, which has the best retroclones?

>>51119937
>>51119672
Uh, no way dude. LotFP modules are flawless perfect exercises in gameplay/narrative balance birthed from the flawless mind of the OSR messiah James Edward Raggi IV. Any other dissenting opinion means you must be dirty storygamer trash that plays Pathfinder.

File: Into the Depths.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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Since minimalistic takes on rules like SotU have been brought up, here's one of those takes that seems to be made with an OSR mindset.

>>51120909
You are the best

>>51121001
BECMI. Sure the game gets ridiculous at high levels and then immortality, but I like dangling that carrot in front of my players, a big ass end game goal besides just delving into dungeons continuously.

>>51102753
Not true, not sure why people have so much trouble understanding there's no conflict between realism and magic. Fictional elements don't bar the fact that our physical laws are understood to be shared in all unspecified aspects.

In any situation where adjudication needs to be made without a system precedent, the first thing you do is try to estimate real world chances (is an above-average strength man leaping 20 feet with 100 pounds of equipment on his back realistically possible?) and only afterwards adjust for game balance - which, imo, is a sort of inelegant fudge like a fudging a dice roll that's ideally avoided if it can't be abstracted.

>>51121001
>Basic, B/X, and BECMI

Huh?
Anywyay, I prefer B/X for the sheer simplicity, although I appreciate the Rules Cyclopedia (ultimate BECMI compilation). It probably inspired the most amount of retroclones, the only instances of BECMI-inspired games I can think of are LotFP and Dark Dungeons which is an actual BECMI clone.

>>51102989
Source?

>>51121134
Rules Cyclopedia

>>51104073
>$20 PDF
I loved ASE1 but what scum

>>51120909
neat

File: Scrolls & Swords.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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Would Scrolls & Swords be considered OSR? While they have things like "role" and such, it tends to boil down to just two "classes", those who fight and those who use magic more or less. It should be real easy to just use it for one shot dungeon delves and such.

>>51121534
It's not OSR. Next!

>>51121534

Too freeform, but I like the low/high number being good at fighting or skill thing.

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>>51121010
Raggi's great when he's working on his own (glacial) schedule and play-testing his shit. But he sucks the most turgid and fulsome of horsecocks on a limited time-frame. Especially one as tight as he had on BTaM.

>>51121001
I'm fond of Moldvay, but I'll freely admit that's nostalgia, because I got started with it. There are some technical differences with the way wizards are handled (notably scrolls and potions), and the retainer rules in B1 are an essential part of the rules that kinda got left out of the main books. If I had to choose one, I'd go with straight Basic or B/X, and slot in whatever bits from other retroclones and AD&D look attractive as you go along. God knows it's the way a lot of the rest of us got started.

LotFP is a Moldvay (or Mentzer) retroclone that freely pillages from Mentzer (or Moldvay) and RC/BXCMI. Dark Dungeons is an RC clone. Jon Becker's B/X Companion is an expansion to B/X (obviously) that tries to rein in a little of the RC insanity.

Most of the other retroclones go for OD&D and AD&D (Whitebox, Whitehack, OSRIC, Adventures Dark and Deep, LL, S&W, Delving Deeper, etc), do their own thing loosely based on AD&D (DCC, Dark Albion), or try to pare back 3e into an oldschool mold (arguably DCC).

LotFP has also inspired a LOT of hacks (at a minimum: Wolfpacks and Winter Snow, Dust Princess, Space Princess, Last Days, Pernicious Albion, Miseries and Misfortunes, whatever the fuck Zak Sabbath is doing these days, and arguably Caracosa). I'd suggest that the popularity of LotFP hacks is partly because a lot of people got started with Basic and are more comfortable treeing off of that, and partly because so many of the new systems and class mechanics just flat-out work at the table. It's a better framework to go off on a tangent from than OSRIC, for example, which dupes a lot of the warts of OD&D as well as the good parts.

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>>51121651
I found it intriguing as well. It eliminates the skill system by and large and makes combat and magic a little more intuitive. Roll low for magic, roll high for combat. Its easy and really hard to fuck up. And since it's light, it can be retooled easily to dungeon crawling just fine too. I'd houserule that each player starts with 4 HP and gain one every adventure they complete, weak monsters (kobolds, goblins, etc) use only 1 die, average to somewhat tough monsters (orcs, trolls, ents) use 2 and powerful ones (dragons, liches) use 3.

That said, maybe there is a way we could incorporate something like this into a proper OSR or OSR-like game?

>>51121584
>>51121534
Why does it matter in the slightest?

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>>51121010

Jesus, you're one salty bitch. People liking what you don't like really cheeses you off, huh?

File: Mezzo The Boss Battle Draft 3.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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Converted my mmo-style Boss Battle project into a PDF. I would love any ideas or feedback y'all can offer.

Anyone got any /osr/ I could join?

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>>51121947
I love this kind of pictures.

>>51121947
The idea first appeared in a Trollbabe, which was: pick a number between 2 an 9, roll a d10. If it's between 1 and your number, it's your fighting, if it's between the number and 10, it's your magic, and whatever range is the closest to 1 or 10 is your social stuff.

It's kinda neat but I'm not a fan of completely barebones games for OSR. And the more alien the resolution mechanic is, the harder it is to bolt OSR stuff on it.

>>51122230

SOON

>>51122230
Any osr what? If you mean games there's a handful of random one-shot pick up games in the Discord server.

>>51122129
>what are jokes?

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Opinions on pic related? Thinking of using it to run ASE.

>>51122608

In this case, it's a passive aggressive way for you to attack people you disagree with while brushing off any criticism with "lol it's just a joke."
Grow a spine, put some salve on your butthurt, and learn to live with the fact that people's opinions vary, and that's okay.

>>51121945
I know I'm being pedantic, but LL is a B/X clone, and Miseries and Misfortunes is its own weird thing.

>>51122284
Yeah games. More so a campaign to commit to though.

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>>51122797
We're OSR geeks, pedantry is not only accepted, it's basically a requirement. Thanks for the basic correction. As far as Miseries and Misfortunes, I had a conversation with the creator about it and he said he'd started with LotFP as his base, wherever he wound up going.

>>51090334
nice

>>51122624
It's alright, but it's not my personal preferred system. I just wish they would permit somewhat higher levels for their races in the classes.

Planning on running ACKS for some mates as a mostly-newbie DM. Anything I should know about ACKS or OSR in general before I begin?

>>51115182
I'm just some random anon, but I grabbed the folder to back it up.

Are there any good one-on-one adventures in the Trove I should take a look at?

Planning on running a one-on-one campaign. If anyone has any advice out there on running these types of a games, I am all ears.

>>51123325
Have you looked at Scarlet Heroes?

>>51121945
>Most of the other retroclones go for OD&D and AD&D (Whitebox, Whitehack, OSRIC, Adventures Dark and Deep, LL, S&W, Delving Deeper, etc), do their own thing loosely based on AD&D (DCC, Dark Albion), or try to pare back 3e into an oldschool mold (arguably DCC).
honestly I'd argue that 99% of all Retroclones that aren't OD&D based are BX/BECMI/RC derived, relatively few are actually based on AD&D to an appreciable degree(and AS&SH 2e is pretty much the only one of note to have been made within the last year or two from my recollection and it's not out till August)

>>51122695
>what are jokes?

>>51123492
>if I repeat my post no one will notice how dumb I am
You didn't get Better Than Any Man. You weren't supposed to win. If you can't handle that want a game where snowflake PCs always win there's a selection of build-heavy tactical anime high fantasy narrative power fests, but that's not OSR so fuck off with that nonsense.

>>51101306
Heyo, Blood and Treasure 2nd Edition.
http://www16.zippyshare.com/v/jUa1hyxc/file.html

>>51122624
I like it a lot, but more as something full of things to borrow from(especially it's gun rules and it's more unique spells) than run on it's own, at least until it's creator finishes that Monster Manual he's been working on for the last couple of years

>>51123521
>gets mad at a joke about LotFP/Pathfinder/not muh OSR and starts spazzing out about LotFP/Pathfinder/not muh OSR

Jesus anon. I was just trying to get your goat, but you really are a thin-skinned little bitch. So I'll just reiterate:

>what are jokes?

>>51123662

You're talking to two different people. And did you know that pretending to be an asshole to get people riled up is the same as actually being an asshole? True facts.

>>51121945'
Ruinations hack guy here. I based Ruinations (of the Dust Princess) off LotFP because quite simply it made sense. Raggi, despite anyone's bias, nailed what I was looking for in an OSR RPG, systematically. I just wanted mutants and Max Rockatanskys.So I stole his shit and altered it.

>>51122115
This is the OSR General.

>>51123228
>Anything I should know about ACKS or OSR in general before I begin?
Study how to run dungeon crawls.

>>51122230
Bumping this again. Requesting an /osr/ group

>>51124016
Depending on your willingness for discord and your time zone I may be able to run something. I'd need to check to see if any of my regulars want another game. If not find more people etc.

>>51124067
I'm willing to use discord, as i already do. My time is eastern standard

>>51124698
My brain is doing funny things sorry. I'm assuming that is US and not Australian?

My DM is running "Warlock of Firetop Mountain" in Advanced Fighting Fantasy.

I'm actually surprised it's not more popular, it's a pretty simple/nice system, although it definitely shows its age.

>>51124882
Yes! U.S.and not Australian.

>>51125085
Hmm ok. I'll see what I can do. If you're around during the next thread I'll get your contact stuff, as this one is on its last legs.

>>51125012

Not many people talk about running games with the Fighting Fantasy system. Is it fun and is it quick to convert your standard module/adventure to its specs?

>>51125394
Pretty easy, mostly because it's very light. You only have like 4 stats (skill, magic, luck and... consitution? I don't remember how it's called, but it's your HP), and no classes (it's sorta pointbuy), monsters sometimes only have 2. So yeah, you can eyeball most things I think, if for nothing else because there's not much to screw up.

>>51093386

Chainmail 3rd Edition 7th print (post Tolkien lawsuite) Was just put up on DMsGuild today.

>>51123615
The core rules are in the trove, he's nagging the board for a B&T 2nd ed. monster manual.

>>51121945
>and arguably Caracosa
Naw, Carcosa was originally an OD&D supplement which caused a bunch of grognard buttrage, Raggi just picked it up for deluxe publication on the condition it was converted to use LotFP.

>>51125012
Company called Arion Games released a 2nd edition of this sometime back. Recently they even put out a supplament to handle science fiction games like Starship Traveler or Space Assassin.

It never really caught on, though. It's not even available for sharing since so few people ever bought it nobody thought to upload.

>>51125971
... I have it on my pendrive if anyone wants it. can upload next break (should be in about 30 mins).

>>51125982
Please do! More uploads always better!

Fighting Fantasy books were among the first examples of genre fiction translated to my language so they just about defined my experiences as a child!

>>51126006
Here:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/5p6hma

I'll post it in the pdf general thingy, I hope somebody saves it to somewhere more permanent.

>>51123087
Neat. You really can't tell by the end product that it started as LotFP.

>>51121153
Well... We could give like 1 dollar to someone we trust and try buying it.

>>51127588
>>51127588

new thread