5 Reasons why I think Magic will die in 2017: 1. It doesn't

>>51064363
Yeah, MTG is on the way out.

>>51064363
>The sky is falling!

>>51064363
>pokemon
Is known as a kids game

>yugioh
known as a kids game

Definitely gives them sustainability, but "socially adept" is just wrong.

How many times has Magic died now?

>he thinks people actually play Frontier

Flash in the pan, friend.

>>51064363
100% agree

1. MTGO is shit, and beyond repair. In the age of E-Sports, paper-focused CCG/TCGs just don't cut it anymore. Pokémon has PTCGO (which is state-of-the-art), and Yugioh has YGOPro and Devpro (which are shitty like MTGO, but at least they are free)

2. Absolutely. Also, with faux "nerd culture" being all the rage these days, the real nerds are being left behind more and more.

3. Exactly. A combination of the MTGFinance bubble, which WoTC themselves created when they announced they were making the Reserve List stricter, as well as the divide between players due to the excessive amounts of formats isuch already hurting tournament attendance for each individual format, and will continue on its downward path, especially if Standard continues to be stagnant and Frontier becomes a thing.

4. He made a wise business decision. MTG is on the way out, and Derium didn't want to be a part of this sinking ship anymore. It's not profitable for stores now, and it certainly won't be 6 months from now.

5. Exactly. The business model that defines games like L5R and MTG is honestly, just become obsolete. Think of L5R as Hollywood Video, MTG as Blockbuster, and Hearthstone as Netflix.

>>51064363

Desolator, go back to Youtube.

>>51064363
1. The new CEO of WoTC comes from Microsoft. And isn't a corrupt, insider trading thug like Greg Leeds. They will release a state-of-the-art digital product this year.


2. Actually, the players you are describing are mainly the older players, people like MTGHQ (toxic asshole), MTGLION (very shady), and Wedge (autistic). Most of the newer players are actually pretty chill.

3. The buyouts only affect Legacy and Vintage, which accounts for a very small fraction of the community. Frontier is just the new Tiny Leaders.

4. Guess what? Deriums average view count per video has plummeted since then.

5. L5R was never even close to being as popular as MTG.

>>51065442
Derium is also a huge egotistical prick. He'll probably abandon Pokémon now too, with the announcement of the Roaring Skies reprint.

>>51064363
Counterarguments

>1: The CEO of WotC has been hyping up a complete overhaul of MTGO, which has its own problems but a modern client would do wonders

>2: I can't comment on Pokemon TCG but YGO meta is full of niggers nigging up shops and stealing literally anything that isn't nailed down. I've seen stores forced to close because some dindu broke in one night and stole entire inventories.

>3: Frontier is a solved format that will fall the way of tiny leaders before year's end. It'll also keep WotC from doing it, which is good, the format was terrible from conception. I will concede the community being divided though

>4: Literally who?

>5: The bubble has deflated a LOT compared to where it was this time last year. Yes the reserved list sucks, but we're no longer on the brink of the game falling into complete bankrun mode where every card suffers massive buyouts for no reason.

I've neither heard nor seen evidence of an overall decline in attendance from any of the local stores at FNM or other weekly events beyond unconfirmed anecdotal tales. AEG killed L5R not because they fucked with the storyline, but because they made a big to-do about the players being able to write the story and decided to kill that because AEG's favorite waifu clan was unpopular (mostly because of the blatant favoritism they'd shown.)

Will MTG die? Of course. Will it die within the next decade? probably. Will it die this year? I doubt it. There's too much money to lose.

Nicol Bolas will Make Magic Great Again. All will remember 2017 as the year magic was saved.

eh, magic never really dies though. at this point people have sunk so much money into the game that their egos wont let them get out. new players will decline for a few year but eventually it will go back up like it has every other time

>>51065469
>The bubble has deflated a LOT
I dunno, man. The summer buyouts did nothing to help

>>51065567
Conspriacy 2 was MASSIVE in deflating the bubble. There's a ton of reprints that were very needed, and EMA did a LOT more than I ever could have expected it to as far as dropping the prices of the cards it reprinted.

I will concede that the reserved list is a huge pain, and no one of any real importance would suffer TOO terribly from its abolishment. But at this point it's a matter of law, not what we want.

magic will die because WotC refuses to reprint things and the casual players (which make up a vast majority of the player/customer base) cant play the game because they cant afford spending 500+ bucks on a deck every few months. the entire market depends on casual players, if they cant afford to play because wizards refuses to reprint cards the game will go under. that is the sad true fact of magic, if you disagree you are just plain wrong

>>51065715
casual players don't NEED those reprints. They will buy packs at walmart and play at vaunted events like GP: High School Cafeteria or PT: Kitchen Table.

You're correct in saying they are the vast majority of the player/customer base. But saying that they are demanding reprints of old cards and have to shell out the money every few months to keep up with standard is patently false. If they did they wouldn't be the casaul market.

>>51065469
>1 You yourself stated you believe MTG will die within the decade. Knowing this, do you really expect the new CEO to stick around? Unlike Greg Leeds, the new guy actually understands how to run a successful business. He will leave the company very soon once he realizes it's a sinking ship.

>2 TPC and Konami also have WAY more money than WoTC

>3 I doubt it. Frontier's popularity is only rising.

>4 A major MTGtuber, also a highly successful and well-known card shop.

>5 EMA was also a MASSIVE fuck up, due to the fact that WoTC flat-out LIED about the second wave for SIX WHOLE MONTHS. And L5R, like MTG, was a product of a different time, back before the Internet was even a thing.

>>51065767
>casual players don't NEED those reprints
they kinda do when wizards enforced and support formats have them legal. if you want to play modern and you dont have the lands for it you are at a disadvantage and your deck is objectively worse than someone else who has the mana base, same with basically every other format aside from commander kinda. thats just the lands, not even going into things like side board staples and core cards of decks. if you want to play modern for less than 300 dollars while having a chance to actually win your stuck playing like 1 deck, if you want to play standard and have a chance to win you need to be forking out 200-300 dollars ever month or so at the least or spend about 500 on the best deck out there. want to get into legacy? hope you can afford a second mortgage. wizards knows there is a problem and i guarantee you they track the price of cards. they are litearlly killing their game because the price of admission is higher than its ever been but their players can just plain not afford it

>>51065888
Standards problem is with rarity rather than reprints.

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>tfw all the card games I've enjoyed have died

pls not Magic too ;__;

I'm still sore over the AGOT reboot. Both of them.

>>51065920
ok? that is even more reason why wizards should be reprinting things to hell. if standard is going to be expensive due to rarity wizards should be keeping the cost of eternal formats to a point where people can afford to play those.

invest in a new printing facility, reprint the shit out of old sets, and sell those boosters again. fuck investors, fuck collectors, fuck hoarders

>>51065987
People would be pissed but in reality what are they going to do? Have a bitch about it then keep playing anyway, that's what.

>>51065987
Casuals aren't going to be playing modern and legacy due to the higher skill cap.

>>51064363
MM17 and the New Digital Platform will be the tests that determine MTG's fate.

>>51066004
>People would be pissed but in reality
the amount of people who would be pissed about it is so much smaller than the amount that would be happy it is actually ridiculous

>>51066005
>legacy
>high skill cap

lul

>>51066005
Not him but combos do not really require skill which is what 80% if not more of is what legacy and modern are made up of.

>>51066077
legacy has a higher skill cap than standard does and players that have been playing for much longer. Not a great environment to drop new and casual players into.

>>51065987
MM17 is going to blow, I feel it in my bones after MM15.

>>51066004
>People would be pissed but in reality what are they going to do?
The "collectors" would throw a shitfit and take legal action over the RL being a (possible) promissory estoppel

>>51066106
Then why promote a braindead format if it requires no skill?

>>51066120
because people will play it, there is a huge demand for it

>>51065840
>4 A major MTGtuber, also a highly successful and well-known card shop.
ahahahaha

>>51064363
>Yugioh

You do realize that game is in a MUCH worse spot than MTG right now, right?

>>51064363
1. They have a new state-of-the-art digital platform scheduled for this year.

2. Yugioh will die off way before MTG

3. EMA and Conspiracy 2 did alot to help. If WoTC continues down that road, they're golden.

4. Once he realizes TPC doesn't give a fuck about "investors", he'll abandon Pokémon too. AlphaInvestments already caught on, Derium will soon follow.

5. How the hell do you even compare MTG to L5R? L5R was always a mom and pop shop compared to Magic, never anywhere near as popular.

>>51065023

>5

A more accurate comparison would be "MTG is McDonald's and L5R was the family-owned burger joint next door.

>>51064363
Nah, MTG is going to release their Brand New Amazing Super Special Format that's just Standard when standard was good.

Or, More interestingly, they're going to re-release every block, but rotate which blocks are available, and call it Chaos, so they can synthesize new and interesting metas by combining new sets with older ones that never saw each other inside of competitive.

>>51067191
>Standard back when Standard was good.

To be honest, from the looks of it, AEther Revolt is that set.

>>51067300
It's funny how they banned twin and then brought it back in standard.

>>51065888
Your problem is assuming that casuals even know or care that formats exist. By in large, they don't. They put their deck together with cards they like and rarely if ever even consider buying singles. MAYBE they'll trade but often it's just "grab new packs, new on-color cards go into deck."

Casuals don't play modern and don't care about mana efficiency that much.

Also way to grossly exaggerate legacy prices. 3k will get you any deck in the format, and unless you have some minimum wage slave job that's maybe 2 months of saving?

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>>51064363
>Yugioh communities are known to have more socially adept people

>>51067609
Well, duh. 12 year olds are significantly more socially adept than fa/tg/uys.

>>51064363
Now I'm not going to pretend magic isn't in a tough spot, it's really having some issues right now, but yu gi oh is doing far worse. I'd at least wait until wotc reveals their new online thing and whether or not they do qr cards in boosters like pokemon does before I call anything.

>>51067643
12 year olds don't play YGO though. The primary demographic for yugioh players in america are blacks age 16-25.

I can see pokémon getting bigger since they are being pushed hard by the games and pokego recently, but if anything, it's YUGIOH that will die.

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>>51064363

My brother gave me old booster packs for Christmas. One Ice Age, one Fourth Edition and one Fifth Edition. It was really nice and I probably won't ever open them. I've decided to quit the game.

>>51067781
I definitely think AEther Revolt is positioned to be a huge step in the right direction.

>>51064363
>Yugioh communities are known to have more socially adept people

Seriously?

>>51064363
>the same path that AEG took L5R down, which eventually lead to that game's death...

L5R didn't really "die." It got sold off because AEG was making more profit from other stuff than L5R.

>>51065469
>AEG killed L5R not because they fucked with the storyline, but because they made a big to-do about the players being able to write the story and decided to kill that because AEG's favorite waifu clan was unpopular (mostly because of the blatant favoritism they'd shown.)

No... AEG was talking to FFG about turning L5R into an LCG at Gencon 2015 when a few weeks later FFG offered to buy L5R from AEG and AEG's owner accepted.

The Spider conquest and Mantis dissolution stories were caused by one brand manager who completely changed the games direction after he got the position in fall 2014 to try and get back to the "Clan Wars" for the 30th anniversary. The Clan path choices were an attempt by the brand manager who replaced him in early 2015 to give the player base a greater ability to control the story after being given the mess. Nothing really came of these choices due to the sale.

>>51068238
>30th anniversary

Woops. Meant 20th.

>>51064363
>I think Magic will die in 2017:
one of the dumbest things i've ever heard in my entire life
theres no way a card game as massive as MTG will die within a year

>>51065469
>Favorite Waifu Clan was unpopular

But that IS EXACTLY what WoTC is doing. Except instead of the waifu clan, it's a cheap Justice League ripoff.

I think more and more people will start moving to boardgames and LCGs especially.

LCGs can have a much larger design space than magic without the cost which is great. I personally stopped playing magic because I only like drafting and sealed which costs too much upkeep, I'd rather just play seasons where I can draft for free and it's one of the main parts of the game

>>51070740
It's not at all the same. The best analog would be wizards coming out and saying "we have counted all your votes, and are removing the color Red from magic. All red characters are dead, all red cards are banned in all formats, and we're making a new color yellow to fill the void but it won't do anything red did."
And then people find out that the popular vote was overwhelmingly to kill Blue, but because of a technicality they threw in last minute votes to kill blue counted half and votes to kill red counted double.

The jacetice league is just shitty market research after seeing Avenger Guy making all the money. That shitty SMTxFE game was the same - trying to chase a fad that ended 2 years before launch.

>>51070773
Board games are forever plagued by the Monopoly Curse: people assume they're either kiddy games or take 6 hours of torture. Without a huge overhaul in the public eye that won't change.

LCGs are great, but as it turns out people REALLY like limited, and they're just not properly equipped to allow that. Netrunner tried and it was okay-ish, but it's still mostly constructed that rules, and the game's been in a bit of a funk recently.

>>51067191
>standard when standard was good
So Alara Zendikar?

>>51070832
Thing is I wouldn't think it's a bad thing to follow that fad if they of course did it right, even marvel knows how successful avengers movies are and they still give us different movies focusing on different characters, id dare say guardians was marvel cashing in on its own fad but knowing they could use the obscure characters and get away with it due to avenger success.

Point being, everyone loves the avengers. They would love them much less so if every movie marvel put out after it was just the avengers because "hey! You like these characters, have them in overdose!"

Shit amonket would be 10/10 if the jacestice league actually listened to ajani and hung out on dominaria while we take a break from them and watch something else relevant for once.

>>51070871
I'd say the tide of the monopoly curse is very very slowly changing, with games like pandemic and codenames becoming more and more popular. I think it also helps that most boardgames enthusiasts are usually quite well adjusted people (except for sucking the dick of designers like hipsters) compared to the stereotype of TCG players

I think we will eventually see and LCG that does draft properly. I think the problem is is that it'll have to end up being exclusivley designed around drafting/sealed and be able to play a group of people out the box. WOTC could do it with a cube product but they seem to have no interest

>>51070896
ZendiScars was beautiful too.

>>51064363
>let's face it
>let's face it

let's face it, you really need to delet this

>>51070938
I don't necessarily disagree. Someone in a different thread said it (forget which) but it seems like the story quality is inversely proportional to the number of gatewatchers they have involved.

What would be really interesting, if they could swing it (doubt it but possible) would be to split up the gatewatch and have half in one plane doing investigative work on how to not die to bolas, while the other half works on getting Nicky B to actually show up.

I wouldn't mind Bolas losing (would mind him dying, but not losing) if it's due to superior tactics, counter-planning and actually working as a team to just come in from enough different angles to make him fuck off.

That said I wouldn't be shocked if it's just Jace mind raping bolas because he's good at 4d underwater chess.

>>51071000
I agree but only after MBS came out, NPH killed standard

>>51070982
>WotC paper powered cube with non white/black borders to get around reserved list.

Why had I never thought of this before? Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?

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>>51070896
Invasion Odyssey, my man

>bored
>hey let's make some FUN modern deck
>oh i know let's make WOLVES theme deck
>nothing but wolves fuck yeah
>now let's play with someone
>reanimator everywhere
>billion $ cards everywhere
>people being asshats not enjoying the game at all
welp, guess playing for fun is dead

>>51071000
Honestly, I think we'll be getting our 1st Standard ban since Zen-Scars soon. Saheeli and Emrakul are very likely to get the axe, imo.

>>51064860
People in Japan play it, but that's only because its far too expensive with shipping and currency conversion for Japs to buy expensive modern singles like Goyf and Fetches.

>>51071107
The Saheeli combo is just a hype meme, reminds me of the Drana hype back when Olivia 2.0 was revealed. The combo is way too easy to disrupt, and neither of the pieces are instant speed. If anything, the planeswalker you should be scared of is Nahiri, as Mardu now has access to TWELVE hyper-efficient 1-drop removal spells in Modern (4 Bolt 4 Path 4 Push)

>>51071190
I think Saheeli blink combo will be good, but people seem to think turn 4 kills will happen with the same frequency of Splinter Twin. What's more likely to happen is control deck controls until turn 7 where you do the combo all in one go.

>>51071190
12 1-drop kill spells? So it's a loaded gun? Texas Control sounds like a great name for the deck :)

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>>51064363

Magic at its core works perfectly fine as a computer game: online or offline. It suffers from the fact that most of the attempts to do this have been messes. Plus adopting the Hearthstone method of getting digital cards does not pan out that well when it can be cheaper and/or easier to get the physical version. And the thing about the differences in community is nothing but opinions backed by anecdotal evidence.

The multiple formats could divide the community or increase participation. I know people who can't afford the Modern fetches but could make some amazing Frontier decks with little cost. We'll have to see.

Magic has had a few poorly received sets so things are on the down swing at the moment. Aether Revolt has a lot of exciting cards for Standard, Modern and Legacy so we'll see what happens.

>>51071083
What the fuck is this post?

>>51070982
Holy shit, this.

Also, why has MtG not sold a Cube Product yet? I just want to play MtG for a one time cost, and no format lets me do that for a reasonable cost.

Buying a set of Commons/Uncommons from Origins and just fucking around with my friends, building decks and playing THG, was fun as hell. Best $20 I've spent in a long time.

>>51071918
mysterious force

>>51071924
Sounds like you would enjoy pauper

>>51071924
I have a friend with a commander cube. It's an absolute treat.

>>51071977
I do, and if my card shop would support it instead of trying to push FNM, I might be able to get other people to show up.

>>51072082
FNM means Friday Night Magic. Pauper can be the event for FNM. You want your store owner to push FNM, because that is when magic is played.

>>51072149
Okay, that's my bad. I want them to stop pushing Standard. None of my friends can get behind spending that much money.

>>51072239

The problem is that stores often need to push singles to make a profit. Standard, Modern, Frontier and Commander can do that. Pauper... not so much.

>>51064363
What brought down l5r?

>>51064363
Well even if it DOES die, I'll shill it till the very end, bucko!

>>51073260
AEG selling the game to another company.

>>51071000
Scars/Innistrad was also a pretty good time. Zombies and Infect on the aggro front, Esper in control, Jund and Pod in Midrange, Frites in combo, meme decks like Phantasmal Titan. Free spells and miracles always giving the game an edge of danger, you never felt completely safe, but your own free spells kept you from feeling like you're out of options.

It was a wild and lawless time.

>>51064844
Constantly for the last 23 years :^)

>>51065840
>successful and well-known card shop

o i am laffin m8

>>51064363
>1. It doesn't translate well in the digital/e-sports world.
Why does Magic have to be an e-sport to not die?

>2. The MTG community mostly consists of stereotypical "nerds".
Are you trolling? You're not wrong, but if you think having nerds as a fanbase means you can't be successful, you need to get out from under that rock you've been living under.

>3. The community is becoming more divided.
Huh?
>The growing influence of MTGFinance and the rise of Frontier shows just that.
What and what?

>4. Deriums left the MTG community.
Who?

>5. All signs point to 2017 being the final year of MTG.
This isn't how you make a list.
>The reserve list bubble has reached heights so absurd that it's all but guaranteed to crash
I doubt it, but even if it does, so what? All that money goes in the secondary market anyway.
>attendance for both Standard and Modern tournaments are rapidly declining, FNM is dying
From what I've heard, the only legit complaints on this entire list. Though I've also heard Wizards is attempting to fix that problem now, so who knows what the future holds. (Answer: nobody.)
>players are experiencing all-time high barriers to entry
To which formats? The ones people actually play, or the ones that make up a minority of the community?
>stores are experiencing massive losses
Haven't heard about this one.
>morale is declining on all sides of the community
Oh, because a lot of people say the newest set is garbage? People always say that about every set.
>WoTC seems to be taking MTG down the same path that AEG took L5R down, which eventually lead to that game's death...
No idea what these things are or why they died.

>>51077857
The fact that standard doesn't have a competitive budget option is pretty annoying for new players.

when wizards took over EDH and added a bunch of generals that had command zone effects, and then planeswalkers as generals, that's when MtG died as something playable for me. the last time I had fun in the game was rtr/theros standard because of an amusing combo deck. I've already considered it dead for a while, look at how shit and uninspired khans block was, look at 2 drop $100+ jace the 4-of-in-every-competitive-deck shitshow, the increasingly predictable and static card interactions. yawn.

wizards needs to digitize fast, even dnd is at risk.

>>51077857
>People always say that about every set.
I thought Shadows block was great.

>>51071083
>hey let's make some FUN modern deck

i.e. a weak casual deck

keep it to the kitchen table while the adults play real magic, kiddo

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>>51064363
1. "esports" are never going to get mainstream attention. They're gonna stay niche to their playerbase. No person that doesn't play video games is ever gonna care.
2. Objectively false, and stereotyping.
3. Frontier is gonna fall off if Wizards don't pay it any attention, and they more than likely won't.
4. Who the fuck cares?
5. Yea, Wizards is killing Magic here. They just need to get over their bullshit "collectors > players" philosophy and things would be fine, but noo can't let people that barely or don't play MtG feelbad about buying $120+ Goyfs for "investments".

>>51079892
Rather than being an attempt to appease collectors, I think this is simply a business move to sell more packs of EMA.

And, by marketing it as a limited print product, they can justify charging $10 per pack. The margins on the masters reprint sets must be fucking massive.

I suspect they don't want to reprint old cards as much because while it generates revenue for them from modern players, it's still not nearly as much as they make selling new sets for standard and products like commander. It's just very convenient for them to fall back on the 'collector' excuse to avoid having to allocate resources to a low-margin product.

As much as I want to see magic online really take off, I don't think it'll happen.
They need to include some sort of pack code on every physical pack to encourage people to pick up the online version as well. Kind of hard to do retroactively.
Magic itself also doesn't lend itself well to online play with all the stops, phases, and priority system owing to instants and the like. Compare to the slick and fast system of Hearthstone and its clones.
It might work out if they incentivize the online version, but we all know WotC hates giving anything away for free.

>>51070773
The problem with LCGs is that FFG have no idea what they're doing. A few of us were talking about it the other week and it's cheaper to buy everything announced for Imperial Assault (by itself a really expensive game) than it is to get up to date on current Netrunner releases. Coupled with FFGs inconsistent release schedule and they're being focused more on new games rather than expansions it means recruitment really drops after the first year and a half.

>>51080193
The other main problem with their collector-focused philosophy is that they don't reprint super-expensive staples of many formats at all outside as mythics in limited run sets.
If Wizards would just reprint, say, Tarmogoyf as a normal rare (not a mythic) in a normal set (ie a block set, not a supplemental product) and just tank the price, then more people would be able to afford it and more people would be able to get into Modern. Same with expensive lands and such.
But because Wizards caters exclusively to collectors and says "fuck trying to get new player, and fuck trying to get current players into more formats" they're shooting themselves in the foot.

>>51080277
X-wing was doing pretty well, although some creep has started to rear its ugly head nowadays.

>>51080285
No, you're not thinking about it quite right.

They reprint Goyf at mythic because it means people will buy more packs in an attempt to pull a Goyf. If it was a rare, the price may fall enough where a person who was considered buying packs may no longer do so. They want to sell to people who bust packs solely to resell singles as well, be it dealers or whoever.

>>51078015
Standard Pauper? I would play the hell out of that if each FNM was that.

>>51078015

New set has a ton of playable uncommons and no chase mythics WOTC is at least starting to rectify their stupidity.

I don't think magic can die.

If it did "die" (wizards discontinues support), prices will absolutely plummet, and boom, everyone can own expensive cards and play expensive formats, then everyone likes it so much wizards brings it back.

Maybe magic needs to die to kill off all the investors and collectors.

>>51080817

Magic just has to be about players first, collectors second.

Collecting cards for a game no one plays is pointless.

>>51080838
>>51080817
If the game dies, collectors will be the only ones who will still own cards. All the gamers will sell/throw out their cards and the collectors will hold and eventually in 25 years they will be museum pieces and wall decoration.

>>51064363
ok i agree that maybe wizards has done some bad decisions (BFZ for example), but to say that the game is DYING its a bit too much, i mean a bit of research shows that mtg has seen some moments that were far worse like homelands for example, heck at my lgs i only see the game grow each day, just because some random guy on youtube who owns a store quit the game it doesnt mean that the game will die in one year

>TL;DR i think op is being a little over-dramatic

>>51080979
I really disagree.

Prices will tank, collectors will sell out while they can and move on to ruin some other game and the gamers will just keep playing casual.

>>51064363
Do you have a single fact to back that up?

>>51066666
Quints confirm.

PS: yugioh is for weebs

>>51081107
Why would they? Magic is the foremost card game of all time. Collectors don't care if no one plays it. Even if prices tank short term, cards will be worth a lot long term for their cultural and historical importance.

>>51067781
There's one problem with that.

MTG will have 3 digital platforms for play. Will you be able to use each code only one and have to decide which one to use it on, or will you be able to use the code once on each platform?

Not that it matters to me, since I exclusively play physical and Duels

>>51067862
I'm pale as fuck, and I tried YGO back when I was 13. It didn't really stick, but MTG's been my cardboard crack of choice since then

>>51081215
>Duels
>I and a friend get into it
>Get a 2 headed giant going
>Having fun
>Play Boonweaver Giant
>Game crashes to desktop for all 4 players
>Apparently the game always crashes when you play this card
>Check online
>Bug has been in the game since September
Magic Duels is definitely dead

>>51081319
They update only when adding new sets so that gets fixed on the 19th.

>>51077857
1. Yes. It's called technological advancement. Think Blockbuster<Netflix or Payphones<Cellphones

2. Nerd culture has recently shifted away from the neckbeards who read comic books and play board/card games to the fake hipster nerds who are hardcore video gamers but that's about it. Sad but true.

3. The more formats you add, the less people playing each format. Also, Frontier is being pushed mainly by MTGFinance investors. That's another divide right there: the people who see Magic as a game, and the people who see it as a personal 401k jacking up prices to points where cards become everyone except the very rich. This makes MTG very unattractive for potential new players, and is why most people looking to get into a paper TCG these days end up going to Pokemon.

4. Do you live under a rock?

5. WoTC has refused to print playable cards as FNM promos. If you're expecting things like AEther Hub or Fatal Push, just give it up, it's just going to be more Fortune's Favor-tier garbage and you know it. Good promo cards=actual incentive to attend a 10 dollar FNM. High barriers to entry in all formats, the aforementioned Frontier making both Modern and Standard more expensive already, mind you. Stores are losing lots of money on MTG, as evidenced by Derium's decision to stop producing MTG videos and to stop selling MTG product all together. Morale is declining as in the community is becoming more divided. And L5R was essentially the Hollywood Video to MTG's Blockbuster; the Noodle Kidoodle to MTG's KB Toys.

maybe this isn't the correct thread to post this in, but it seems like the most relevant

is kaladesh the worst set in recent times? I'm a pretty casual magic player, but god damn this set is goofy

>>51085892
Kaladesh and Aether Revolt are the two strongest sets in a long time, dummy. What are you talking about?

>>51078822
case in point, tier chasing fuccbois are ruining the game for anyone that wants to have fun

>>51086527

Tiers have been the way of the game for a long time. I'd recommend sealed or draft for you.

>>51080545
Try making a standard pauper deck that does anything interesting for any format since NWO.

Not being completely facetious either, I love pauper and always like seeing new decks.

>>51064363
>a multimillion dollar industry with hundreds of thousands of players will disappear in less than a year
Get over yourself.

>>51065922
Magic ain't going to die anytime soon. they are still selling record amounts of card every set.

>>51070938
>Point being, everyone loves the avengers.
No. Some people have taste, you know.

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>>51071083
>Modern
>reanimator everywhere

>>51086527
Some people have a hard time having fun when they play bad decks, because doing nothing the first 5 turns and getting obliterated is boring.

>>51086569
I'd recommend building your own decks for you, why even bother if you just copy what the top tier is, you're not even playing magic, just repeating the same steps

>>51089873
Magic isn't like chess where there's a standardized opening and response.

This is where the "waaah netdecking is the cancer killing magic" argument runs into a wall: there have been in the history of magic only a handful of decks that are truly autopilot, where you can give a list to someone who's never touched it and they can still do very well in a competitive setting. Having a super powerful deck means nothing if you don't know how to play it. And if you copy whatever the current netdeck du jour of whatever format you like (standard, modern, legacy, historical standard, block, frontier, pauper, whatever) and don't study it to at least understand HOW the deck works if not WHY the deck works, you're going to get your shit pushed in.

And then there's sideboarding to consider. Good luck with that.

>>51090074

> only a handful of decks that are truly autopilot, where you can give a list to someone who's never touched it and they can still do very well in a competitive setting

This. I netdecked a grixis legacy tempo deck on mtgw, had no idea what I was doing for the first 5-10 matches.

>>51090074
>netdecking
Gonna ramble liek motherfucker but honestly, as a new magic player the real problem is that there are too many fucking cards. I just can't construct a deck if you give me too many shit to chose because I'm new and I still don't know why some stuff is good or how some shit interact with each other. Netdecking is a necessity for a game this big

And my real problem with magic is obviously the cost and the lands. I play modern because it's the cheapest format supported in my local and let me tell you that I feel like shit with this nigger is shitting out a painland + a noble hierarch turn one and I can only respond with a raging goblin and a red mountain. And I play goblins only because I can win with that sometimes, my artifact deck is beyond shit if I don't spend at least 50 bucks to improve it slightly and for that price I'd rather get a boardgame.
Dunno, it just feels like something really expensive.

>>51064363
>1:Magic isn't a good E-sport
That's because yeah, MTGO is shit, but it also doesn't translate easily to nitwits at home who have never played before being able to understand it.
>2. The mtg community is mostly nerds
Been that way for 20+ years kiddo, nerds are damn loyal with their hobbies, Pokémon and yugioh get players from their shitty anime//video games. Anyone worth drawing into MTG doesn't give a damn if it's mostly nerds.
>3. The community is more divided
I've never even heard of MTGFinance, and frontier with either establish itself, which doesn't look likely, or go the way of Tiny Leaders. But seriously, EDH rose out of nowhere, we were fine after that, neither of your examples in 3 show negative divide, as they have no inherent negative consequences. Diversification is good.
>4. Deriums
Literally who? Oh shit one rando left, our community is doomed? Ueeeeeah no.
>5. All signs
Can ya show me evidence FNM attendance is down, kiddo? Or that Dtandard and Modern Tourneys are dying? Or stores experiencing losses? Literally nothing in 5 is anything I have even remotely seen, so unless you can show me some actual evidence, imma say you're wrong.

>>51090285
Dude that's fine, not wanting to shit out heaps of money to play in competitive is legit.

>>51090285
>modern is the cheapest supported format

Not calling you a liar, but what happened to standard? The cardpool is a lot smaller.

do you as a new player feel pressure to play in tournaments? I know that I played the game for a solid year just with high school friends before I even considered going to my LGS for fnm. We played casual shitbrews and didn't care.

Is that community well and truly dead?

>>51090407
Not that Anon, but I think he means cheapest to both enter and maintain. Most mono red decks in modern are what, 80$ to get? And that's without fetches, because we are being poor/good players are knowing that decking thinning doesn't really help.

>>51090407
>what happened to standard? The cardpool is a lot smaller
I've heard that it's also a lot more expensive than modern and the card lose value faster. But I don't really know since my friends were the ones who told me that and they all play modern
>do you as a new player feel pressure to play in tournaments?
Not really, I just fucking hate playing with anyone that isn't my firends. My LGS is filled with people pulling out expensive cards. When I start a match and the opponent is pulling out an aether elixir first turn... well, it feels like shit. It's like those Catan games when everyone gets resources and you don't. And my firneds are spending at least 50 bucks in cards every month, their decks are getting better and better and I just can't do shit anymore without spending cash. One of them play slivers for example. The best way to counter him would be to buy anger of the gods but that's 10 bucks down the drain already.
>Is that community well and truly dead?
probably, videogames killed it. I mean, I like magic but when I play tekken we are all equal, the only differnece is our skill.

>>51085892

>he does not remember theros
>or gatewatch galore

>>51081172
I think there's far too much supply being held for prices to stay high without the demand of players, or at least the illusion of demand, to keep the bubble up. Maybe for the top tier of Vintage prices where player demand is already close to zero, but otherwise no.

>>51090646
The fact that collectors are keeping sealed boxes and graded cards means that their product will survive any kind of collapse. They'll at least get their investments back so long as they bought in at release

>>51071069
Because Wizards is full of idiots.

My idea for saving the format, as someone who only plays limited and casual, is creating more draft sets. Just make draft sets filled with tons of reprints. They dont have to be multiplayer like Conspiracy, they can and should be 1-on1. People go to the store to play limited, buy a booster pack full of reprints, sell the reprints. Think EMA but printed en masse. The MTG bubble will finally go down and MTG as a whole would be more affordable.

Or maybe I dont know what I am talking about, idk.

>>51090834
>The fact that collectors are keeping sealed boxes and graded cards means that their product will survive any kind of collapse
Why?
If people stop playing magic who will want to buy boxes?

>>51090525
>I just fucking hate playing with anyone that isn't my friends.
This right here is the truth. Anyone who isn't your friend, I usually a giant pus filled asshole.

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>>51065987
>fuck collectors
Why is there so much collector hate on this board?

Tell me, what format are you playing that is affected by me collecting pic related?

>>51092400

Would you care if those dropped massively in price due to reprints? Some collectors and investors do, and that's why the reserved list exists and fucks up the price and availability of quite a lot of cards.

Not like it matters much anymore, because chase mythics are actually having a similar effect as a monetary entry barrier

>>51092629
>Would you care if those dropped massively in price due to reprints?
Sure, but why would they reprint P9? To push vintage?

>>51064363
I already quit. I couldn't take it anymore. Reasons:

>Kaladesh
They had a shitty secondary mana system just like the Eldrazi block right before it. Why do they keep releasing worthless cards that work off of alternative mana systems? If it's only going to be in one set, then it has no staying power whatsoever. There are 5 colors of mana and that's what the game has been balanced to work with for decades.

>the people
I sure love going to my LGS every week and playing with well adjusted members of society, including:
-Man who takes his sandals off and wears a really greasy sweatshirt
-Guy who always says shit like "it's not looking good for you" when he's winning
-Guy who always claims that he's getting manascrewed when he's losing
-Guy who's been playing since 1993 wins every time
-Guy who won't stop talking about how his wife never gives him sex
-Token woman who goes with husband and reads in the corner because she's not interested in Magic but wants to be with her man

>the cost
So what can you do in Magic? Well, you can build a modern deck for $500. Or you can build a standard deck for $200 that will be outdated in a few months. Or you can build an EDH deck for hundreds of dollars even though it's a format that's "just for fun" (except there's a giant meta with instant includes and excludes and the best decks always revolve around the same 10 commanders).

Or you could just draft every week like I did. $15 dollars for 3 packs, plus some prize packs if you do good, but you'll probably never use the cards because they aren't good in any other format.

I built my Reaper King EDH deck and then quit. Building a good deck was the only goal I had in the game, and I did it. Didn't know where to go after that and I quit.

>>51092769
As official prizes/judge promos for large legacy/vintage tournaments with new art?

It was stupid of Wizards to tighten the reserve list when collectors/investors bitched about getting phyrexian juggernaut in a premium deck or mox diamond in an FTV product.

>>51092885
>As official prizes/judge promos for large legacy/vintage tournaments with new art?
I'm fine with that. I'm surprised they don't just give out reserved list reprints to PT top 8s... it could save WotC some money.

>>51086366
> Power=good

>>51090525
>They spend 50 a month at least on magic
>You can't afford to psend 10 once.

That seems like a wagecuck problem, not something wrong with the game :^)

>>51090525
It seems like you've been mislead about what the modern format actually entails. Try commander if you want a fun format. And with the precons being as good as they are it's not a bad time to jump in.

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>playing anything but legacy magic casually with your friends

Wew lads.

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>>51092400
The problem isn't collectors who own a small sampling of cards they really like. The problem is those jackoffs on youtube who've bought 1000 copies of planechase anthology or khans of tarkir.

>>51067450

>Also way to grossly exaggerate legacy prices. 3k will get you any deck in the format, and unless you have some minimum wage slave job that's maybe 2 months of saving?

You see people? That is why we hate "investors" and other people that think: 1) 3k dollars could be made in 2 months savings by the average MTG player, average american, or the average public for MTG new players (a.k.a high school/college nerds) 2) that even if 1) was a truism, that is acceptable that a game/hobby as immaterial as cardboard playthings should cost that much for ONE playset. Three thousand dollars is the price for some full hobbies without going in full autism mode about it.

You are the reason the game will die.

>>51093719
Those are hoarders, not collectors.

>>51067450
>They put their deck together with cards they like and rarely if ever even consider buying singles.
ya because because they cant afford a 1000 for a play set of a single land. dont act like modern and legacy are some obscure thing no one has ever heard of either because they are not. ive never talked to someone who played magic aside from people who are brand new that week to the game who didnt know what legacy and modern was literally ever

>>51093633
This is the only answer.

>>51093719
I have a complete set of Tarkir block because I really like the setting. Does that make me a problem, even though I fall into the first category?

>>51092058
Investors speculating that the game returns. Also casual players (95% of the player base) who have never been to FNM and don't give a shit if Wizards closes shop because there's thousands of cards to discover. If singles markets close then boxes will fetch a premium.

>>51093719
Why would they be a problem if Wizards prints boxes until demand runs out? They're not taking boxes from people, they're just putting more boxes out into the world.

>>51064860
I see frontier getting more play than modern on Cockatrice, where all the cards are free. People like it because there's lots of room for the format to develop.

>>51096175
People like it because it's new. In reality the format will be a tight clique of decks that no others can compete with. Meme Rhino, Company, Marvel, and all will be 4+ colours.

MaRo confirmed that there will be a Frontier type format eventually, but it will be Post Tarkir so no Coco and no fetches.

>>51090525
>>51090407

The problem with standard is it solely revolves around expensive Chase Mythics that are extremely powerful for their mana cost. Everything else has been underpowered garbage in comparison.

Cards like Gideon, Emrakul, Liliana, Grim Flayer, Kalitas, Avacyn, Ishnakah.

These cards are so good that if you are playing in their colors and don't have them, your deck is bad. Everything else from the sets winds up being worthless so there's no incentive to even buy packs after a couple months of a set's release.

Aether Revolt is the first step back in the right direction, there are powerful cards printed at uncommon rarity and no chase mythics in the entire set.

Thanks for trying this time around WOTC

Reminder that a market full of "investors" with disposable income who do not know how to responsibly invest isn't actually a market because their money wasting is basically subsidizing your loss.

>>51096990
What's wrong with 4 color decks?

>>51097893

They wind up being the same deck with 1 or 2 different cards, and there's no incentive to build a 1-2 or even 3 color deck when it's just strictly worse than a 4 color deck.

>>51093633
I absolutely miss it. Magic has gone downhill since 2011 for me. Probably not coincidentally the year Modern and Commander became official but I didn't draw the connection until recently.

>>51098034

Standard will be good on the next rotation, mark these words.

>>51065567
Jtms is 50, tarmo's 100, and snaps is only 40. Even shit like wasteland and karakas are down. And stuff like fulminator mage dropped back out of bullshit ranges.

>>51093633
Seconding this. Legacy is the objectively correct format.

>>51093633
That's just regular casual you retard.

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>>51093633
>FtV foils ever

>>51097117
source??

>>51064363
>yugioh players
>socially anything positive
pick one. no one at wotc is suggesting you get off-duty cops to guard your FNM because of rampant A&B and grand theft charges.

>>51100824

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/155508760328/re-frontier-do-you-personally-like-the-idea-of-a

Jesus Christ why are people still posting in this horrible fucking thread.

>>51064815
Trading card games are known as kids games anon, ever since baseball cards trading cards have always been for kids. Don't try and pretend magic is a manly game for grown men.

I think the biggest challenge for wizards moving into digital isn't the game itself, or the rules, or whatever. I think it's figuring out how to not burn the people who spend thousands on MTGO while making a relevant digital client for magic.

Funnily enough, people who play video games are frequently anti-social and want to be isolated from other players in multiplayer games. They want to simply press a button to be queued for a match, not look around for leagues and pay for queues and whatever. They dont want to have to dick around with trades and classifieds to acquire new cards. They want the game to hand it to them for playing the game, or acquire the cards through the client, not interacting with other players.

Duels is their current attempt, and it's just awful. They did a very poor job in general with it. There's not much redeemable in it.

I don't know exactly what wizards will have to do, to stay relevant in an increasingly digital-centric age. There will be a point where they will have to translate their success from paper.

Either way I don't think 2017 is the arbitrary year magic dies. People say this shit about any game that's old all the time. This shit isn't going to die any time soon, especially on the part of some dudes making content on youtube or random websites leaving.

>>51092871

I'm seriously surprised more people don't just build Modern / Standard / Legacy decks using good proxy paper

It's like $20 max, and you can still play with many people

>>51065920
Which thankfully they have finaly fixed with aether revolt

>>51100915
>http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/155508760328/re-frontier-do-you-personally-like-the-idea-of-a

Even fucking maro knows.

>>51092400
Its not collecters we hate its people who try to make money on collecting.

>>51092885
It was truely retarded of them.

A from the vault: moxen would have made so much fucking money

>>51081319
They just kept making the game worse
First the deckbuilding defeated the point of the game
Then they abandoned the yearly format.

Alternitivly they have abandoned chase mythics with aether revolt and the game is saved.
Reserve list still needs to go.

>>51065888
If you're going to post a paragraph of text

And you expect other people to read it

Capitalize your fucking sentences

>>51066106
>this is what Standard players believe

>>51071924
>walk up to local game store
>ask if they have a box filled with trash commons and uncommons
>buy bulk
>buy sleeves
>????
>cube

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>>51064363

>>51072239
>>51072335
My store runs a different model.
The store doesn't sell singles. We just run drafts. The store owners aren't organizing the events - the players are. So our local players put a little unpaid effort into organizing FNM, and everyone can draft at a reasonable price. 3 rounds swizz, entry fee = price of 4,5 booster packs, winning a match gives you 1 booster.

>>51104782
>Its not collecters we hate its people who try to make money on collecting.
Those are investors, not collectors.

>>51096175
it has fetchlands, you can't play it. Just wait until after Amonkek and its sequel roll through, we drop M15 and Khans, and then suddenly have a real format.

This is literally just waiting for time to catch up to Magic's retarded release schedule so we can have a good format capable of extended fun.

>>51099586
Looks gud 2 me, family.