How does Human DAoT technology compare with Eldar peak technology

>>51049894
Necron>Eldar>DAoT

>>51049911
/thread

>>51049911
fpbp, though i wonder if you compare strictly physical sciences without the eldar tech being all psychic if DAoT man would have it over them.

There's no substantial fluff about the DAOT, so it's impossible to say.

I thought DAoT humanity was supposed to be the absolute shit, top tier technology, working AI (before it tried to kill everyone), either a different FTL technology or they could go through the warp without a navigator (admittedly it was a bit less rapey back then), chrono weapons and such.

I always thought it was Necrons > DAoT=Eldar and we just didn't mass murder the Eldar because we couldn't be bothered/we were fedorable atheist supreme gentlemen and were trying to bang them all instead.

DAoT humans were incredibly powerful, but they didn't have shit on the Eldar at their peak or Necrons.

A war between peak Eldar and peak humans could still result in a human victory, in my opinion, but that has less to do with humans being STRONK and more with humans being so numerous. The Eldar were absurdly powerful compared to the DAoT humans, but the Eldar only inhabited the Crone Worlds, a tiny part of the galaxy.

Humans colonized THE WHOLE GALAXY, including the farthest reaches, except the Crone Worlds.

>>51052919
Pretty sure the Eldar mostly lived in the Webway, actually. Also, before the fall, the Eldar were the galactic hegemons.

>>51052882
The Eldar at their peak were far stronger than Humanity in the Dark Age of Technology. The Eldar were the absolute pinnacle of the galaxy right up until the Eye of Terror and the Age of Strife happened; they just rarely interacted with humanity due to their relative seclusion and isolationist, hedonistic culture.
That's not to say that the Dark Age of Technology was not glorious, however. It's just that the only things that surpassed it were the Necrons and the Old Ones/their heirs.

>>51052882
>we couldn't be bothered
>we

fug

>>51052882
The Eldar literally ran the galaxy when humanity was at the height of their technological prowess. Their automated defense networks were more than a match for anything humanity could conjure.

Basically, Necrons >>> Eldar >>>>>>>>>>> DAoT Humanity.

>>51052919
>A war between peak Eldar and peak humans could still result in a human victory, in my opinion, but that has less to do with humans being STRONK and more with humans being so numerous. The Eldar were absurdly powerful compared to the DAoT humans, but the Eldar only inhabited the Crone Worlds, a tiny part of the galaxy.

The Eldar pre-fall were said to be so powerful they were untouchable by anyone.

>>51049894
Well, remember, aside from a few outlier bits of fluff, Dark Age technology is not substantially more powerful than Imperium tech.

It's more efficient.

>>51053178
I always assumed that had more to do with them holing up on the Crone worlds like a bunch of interstellar trenches and most of their defensive and offensive capabilities being located in the Webway, and less about their actual pound-for-pound military might.

>>51049894

It's always been a bit murky just what DAoT could do. Some of it was just more powerful and efficient than what the Imperium has in the 41st millenium,some of it was radically different.

Still,as far as I am aware, the Eldar at their peak had some pretty crazy stuff. Remember, the Craftworlds were trade vessels that barely managed to salvage some stuff just before the fall, and Comorragh used to be basically a resort town. Look at the sort of things they have, and try to extrapolate what a pre-fall Eldar industrial complex might have been.

I am not sure what the Necrons had at their prime, but if anything it was even stronger. According to their pre-wardian fluff,the Eldar at their prime knew to stay the fuck off.

>>51053201
Yeah but mankind now rules the galaxy even with shit tech.

>>51053178
well im glad slaanesh fucked them up so much.

There was a post here some time ago about a Black Library novel featuring a Mechanicus ship with DAoT weapons. The ship shot it's main cannon at an Eldar ship and missed. So then it shot another weapon that MOVED THE ELDAR SHIP BACK IN TIME AND SPACE to coordinates that guaranteed a penetrating hit.
Human DAoT tech basically allowed you to savescum in real life.

>>51052919
Beast Arises mentions that the Eldar fought humanity's 'unliving legions' and defeated them.

The Idea that humanity in the DaoT could beat the Eldar is just bad autistic HFY.

>>51053280
Is that a BL book? I'm a 2nd/3rd edition guy. I just regurgitate what demented memories I have of that era of 40k. I'm sorry if I'm outdated.

>>51053248
>I am not sure what the Necrons had at their prime, but if anything it was even stronger. According to their pre-wardian fluff,the Eldar at their prime knew to stay the fuck off.

It's important to remember that in the Old Lore, the War in Heaven had the Eldar fighting alongside the Old Ones against the Necrons, and that war was so fucking destructive on the Eldar in deaths and mental effects, that the pain and suffering of the Eldar spawned the entire demonic ecology inside the Warp. Before the War in Heaven and the Eldar's emotional spergout, the Warp was just the Warp, without Chaos.

>>51053223
Eldar were spread out across the galaxy dude.

>>51053267
Nice

>>51053267
And the Eldar were even stronger than that before the fall. Just think of the crazy stuff they had with them.

>>51053249
Because

1. The previous rulers partied so hard they exploded.

2. They had a magical magic man helping them. Now that he's gone the Imperium runs on sheer inertia. It's falling apart and dragging mankind down, but it's so huge and its forward-thrust is so powerful that to those inside it, without a view out into the entire setting, it seems okay enough for now.

3. They don't actually rule the galaxy. The Imperium is made up of thousands of worlds scattered at disparate ends of the Milky Way. These worlds are tenuously connected to one another by shoddy communications and, thanks to the poor logistics of the Imperium and the way Warp travel worlds, less of the galaxy is actually charted by the Imperium than uncharted.

>>51053267
To be honest, that kind of Dark Age tech has never appeared again in fluff.

Almost universally, DAoT stuff is just 40K stuff but easier to reproduce and much more stable.

Now I imagine that the Archaeotech Pistols that the Mechanicus has and loves were pieces of shit sold to idiots, and that the /k/ equivalent would call the owners fags.

>>51053839
Archaeotech Pistol tier stuff is the general level of DAoT tech.

40K fluff isn't always consistent, with different writers often having totally out of synch ideas about stuff, and if something is wildly out of the norm it's best to just ignore it.

Remember, a lot of what the Imperium uses is Dark Age technology. Golden Age mankind simply had the ability to produce and organize all this stuff far more efficiently thanks to better digital technology and more complete archives.

>>51049911

Necrons couldn't even cure a fucking disease or manage to extend their shitty lifespans.

>>51054198
This, mostly. Personal level equipment wasn't massively better than the Archaeotech the Imperium uses now, because the Archaeotech is pretty much direct copy from the Dark Age average or only slightly modified, it's when you get to bigger installations, like voidships, where every single tiny component and sub-component was Archaeotech-grade that you really begin to see a huge difference.

>>51054198
Archeotech pistols is the general level of the average DAoT gurdsman. Or even below the DAoT guardsman level.

>>51054984
The disease was caused by a C'tan-infested sun, with the C'tan being pretty well-known for just completely fucking science and reason over with their presence. Everything else the Necrons have still suggests that in their prime they were the most advanced faction we've ever seen in terms of pure physics-based tech, their warptech is just trash compared to Eldar/Old Ones.

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>>51050978

It's actually easy to say as it's explicitly stated in multiple sources that Eldar>DAoT. Codex, rulebook and BL novels all state unequivocally the Pre-fall Eldar were untouchable. It's one of the premises of the setting that the Eldar fell internally due to complacency precisely because they were so externally dominant.

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>>51053267

> penetrating hit.

It actually failed to destroy the ship. To put things in perspective, human ships from the apex of their might couldn't destroy a ship from the Eldar at their nadir. Meanwhile, even repurposed Eldar merchant ships can delete entire star systems.

While the weapons technology and know how would be significantly better it should also be noted that the DAOT had a very loosely connected human galaxy. There was no Imperium. And a war between eldar and humans does not mean every human world contributes. You might have large parts fighting but without the large yet inefficient control of the Imperium.

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>>51053280
>>51053377

Here's the page.

The most advanced technology the Imperium has was easily available but thats the average the DAoT was working with.

Eldar tech is still heads and toes ahead of the best of our technology.

I mean it would be overwhelming against current day craftworlders, but those guys are basically the Eldar Amish and the DE are the bros and hos of eldar society.

Imagine if your entire civilization could barely keep up against human amish. Now imagine what the main strain of elder civilization was like.

>>51055093
What happens when a star is extinguished? The is all the gasses in it dispersed into wider area to prevent the fusion by not having enough pressure? Did they harvest the material by themselves for the same effect? If the first case is true, wouldn't the stars reform in some point in the future?

>>51055354
The most practical answer I can give you is that GW likely didn't think about the ramifications or specifics, at all, as usual, and just wrote down something that sounds cool.

>>51055354

It's space magic. I aint gotta explain SHIT. Seriously though, what this guy said: >>51055381

>>51055396
>>51055381
I know that, but we can do better, right?

>>51055421

As far as I know, the Eldar big guns work via creating tears in reality. Most likely the suns were tossed into the warp rather than it being dispersed across the galaxy. Not an astrophysicist so I can't say what the consequences of a bunch of prime suns suddenly vanishing would be.

>>51055421

they are now huge dead balls of space-coal

>>51053139
The Eldar had been in decline for literally millions of years when humans we getting their DAoT on. Further, 95% of the fluff on relative power levels comes from Eldar who A), aren't unbiased, and B), weren't alive to see it themselves anyway, because if they were they'd be getting entertained by She Who Thirsts at this point.

The Eldar are basically identical to the imperium; jingoistic, haughty, w-w-we were better than y-y-you, honest! cranked up to eleven to add some dark, hilarious depth to the setting. A prissy mirror.

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>>51055053
>The Eldar were the unparalleled masters of the galaxy the same time Dark Age Humanity is at its peak

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>>51055546

>95% of the fluff on relative power levels comes from Eldar

Actually, it's mainly just omniscient narrators in the rulebook and codices. It's only Throneworld where it's from a subjective perspective.

>>51055546
>The Eldar had been in decline for literally millions of years when humans we getting their DAoT on.

And yet they were still better than DAoT Humanity. If, as you say, after incredible decline the Eldar were equal to the greatest peak of Humanity, then how could Humanity be equal to the Eldar peak?

>>51055502
With a mass of a star it would fuse carbon.

>>51055546
The Eldar codex says the Eldar Empire achieved its full height a million years ago. Decadence only started in M20 as per DE Codex.

>>51055587
I would assume nobody's talking about Eldar right after the war in heaven, but way later during the only time they were concomitant with DAOT humans. As that would be the only time there is relevant data.


Necrons, DAoT, and Eldar are all just degrees of infinity anyway.

>>51055571

They co-existed. It's just that Eldar were far more powerful.

>>51055571
Basically, DAoT humanity was smalltime. They were advanced but nowhere near advanced enough to threaten the Eldar, who let them have their little empires because they were too busy getting busy.

Having a DAoT society in your territory was like having a lawn ornament to the Eldar.

>>51049894

All we know about Necrons is they fought one war and lost, but it was apparently the biggest war EVAR. Eldar are stated outright to have been untouchable for millions of years. DAoT was never really relevant and only ever was used as a point of comparison to show how far the Imperium has fallen.

>>51055546
I dunno about that. Eldar get points for allowing other species to live when they had mastery over the galaxy.

Going out of your way to waste resources on religious genocide of all other species while you have a common enemy in Quadruple Satan and his megademons is a brand of stupid mostly unique to the Imperium.

>>51055729
>All we know about Necrons is they fought one war and lost,

I mean, the Old Ones are basically extinct excepting the ones that fled to other galaxies. Then there's the fact that the C'tan are all sharded or dead.

>>51055750
Bu...but humanity got totally bamboozled by evil aliums in the past, that totally justifies all the hatred and genoside!

>>51055729
The Necrons won the War in Heaven.

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>>51055815
>Implying deceit is not inherent in all xenos
Besides, it's pretty much their fault Chaos exists in the first place.

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>>51055829

>Lose your entire empire
>Lose your fucking souls
>Run away to the fringes of the galaxy
>Shake your fists screaming I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME ELDAR FUCKING SHITS
>Hide in tomb worlds
>Sleep for so long the few that still retain any individuality lose their sanity
>W-we w-won!

>>51055668
The Eldar were nothing immediately after the War in Heaven, the Necrons ruled the galaxy then. The Eldar only rose after the Necrons had their wars of succession and sharded the C'tan.

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>>51055887
>They outlasted the Eldar Empire

>>51055887
They killed the Old Ones and the C'tan. They won, Pyrrhic though it may be.

>>51055815
>>51055750

>Be Eldar
>Have undisputed mastery of the galaxy
>Feels god man
>Defeat humanity's failed AI experiment
>Let them live though, because they aint no threat
>Rule for aeons
>Start partying too hard and birth sex god
>Lose empire
>Humans crawl out woodwork and kick us when we're down
>Attack xenos out of sheer religious zeal as Emperor decrees it holy writ to do so
>Even destroy craftworlds that attempted to surrender
>Try to reason with them and warn the Emperor in an attempt to come in peace
>Get attacked anyway because HURR WHY SHOULD WE TRUST YOU
>Start manipulating them in secret, because they keep attacking during parleys
>DURR WHY YOU KEEP SECRETS!?

Fucking monkeigh, not even once.

>>51055750
Emperor actually didn't mind aliums on principle, he just wanted to smash up the ones who had played nice with humanity during the DAoT and then turned around and betrayed them during the age of strife. Except-

>>51055901
oh. I've been out of circulation for a few years, not current anymore it seems.

>>51055929

That was never their goal though. They wanted a cure to their shit tier life spans and then realized they had dun goofed when they sold their souls for magic beans. Killing Old Ones and sharding Ctan was just vengeance. They lost all relevance and were banished.

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>>51055922

>Lose empire and spend 99% of entire galactic history hiding in stasis, achieving nothing for millions of years
>WE OUTLASTED YOU

It has to be remembered that eldar are ALL psykers to some degree and they were probably quite willing and totally able to develop, use and abuse their gifts before the fall.
Dark Eldars are basically neutered old eldars on this point, and craftworld eldars have to be way too prudent to match their elders.

So old eldars could probably mindcrush at will if conventional means were taking too long to their tastes. Especially against humans as human psykers were rare at the time and probably far far from eldars powers, not to mention skills.
Also the webway was intact.
Also they could be reborned at will, meaning you could be fighting dudes that were around since the fucking war in heaven.

Eldars were bullshit.

>>51055690
But everyone loves lawn ornaments. Garden gnomes are fucking baller.

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>>51056045

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>>51056045
>Necrons wake up
>The Eldar are almost gone
>They fucked themselves into oblivion
>Half are still fucking themselves into oblivion
>The other half are running from EVERYTHING
>Meanwhile, tomb worlds are still waking up
>The only things that stand between them and galactic conquest are monkeys, mutant monkeys, mushroom monkeys, and pests that can't eat necron

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>>51049894
Squats

>>51056170
There is just one issue: they're dead.
But some of them are working on it.

>>51056194
I've you ever seen a squat army be defeated?
I sure haven't, they are undefeated!

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>>51056170

Listen hear you Souldark shit; at no point in all of history has it been a god thing to be a Necron. Back when you were Necrontry all you did was get ravaged by space AIDS and cough of Ctan dust in short, miserable lives.

Then when The Deceived dun bamboozled ya, the majority of your race was left non-fucking-sentient. Some lucky enough to retain some echo of personality went bat shit insane during the long sleep and the rest were left with a gnawing sense of emptiness.

You are the eternal losers of the galaxy. You have eaten shit since the beginning of the universe to this very day. There is no worse fate in the galaxy than being you. We had countless million years of unbelievable pleasure. Even the fucking humans had a few millenia in the sun. What did you get? Cancer and a lobotomy. You're shit. Fuck off.

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>>51056253
We have space Jesus. Your leader literally cocked up the one chance at salvation your race had.

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>>51056265

>Created a God-shard
>Cocked up

Stop pretending you know anything about Psychic engineering you metal fuck. Just because you don't make God in a single day doesn't mean you can't finish buffering him in time to get a handjob and a sandwich. Remember being able to taste things and have genitals? Of course not.

>>51056253
> the eternal losers of the galaxy
> Fuck shit for everyone else
Are necrons the school shooters of the galaxy?

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>>51056323

That's Dark Eldar. Or possibly Maugan Ra.

>>51056253
>>51056265
>>51056301
Honestly I see a certain beauty in the way that Necrons basically drew the shortest stick on every occasion they entered the draw, but despite that are still going strong and currently have a better chance of reclaiming their prime than basically anyone else. Helps to make them three-dimensional and intimidating at the same time.

>>51056363

>a better chance of reclaiming their prime than basically anyone else

There's no way for them to get their souls back. They're the one faction that have already lost. At best they can make everyone else lose too, but the best thing they can get is ruling over a universe as empty as their souls.

>>51056253
Shh. Do you hear that? That's Slaanesh's belly. He's hungry for Eldar souls. YOUR souls. Guess whose fault that one is. Hint: Yours

We defeated the gods we made, you just made more gods who defeated you.


>Then when The Deceived dun bamboozled ya, the majority of your race was left non-fucking-sentient.
Not my problem, I'm still sentient.

Oh, well look at the time. It's 1135. Time to not fuck over the galaxy with psychic byproduct! Later!

>>51056398
Why do they even need souls?

>>51056398
We have seen artificial souls before, though it would definitely take them a great deal of time and is extremely unlikely there's nothing suggesting it's impossible, Szeras and a few other Crypteks are working on it as we speak.

Not only that, but some Necrons don't even want their souls back, in time others may join this philosophy, their entire race isn't as once-dimensional as it used to be.

>>51056398
>There's no way for them to get their souls back. They're the one faction that have already lost.
They're the one faction that can still win. So what they can't get their souls back? Who needs them anyway? They just cause problems for everyone. They still have galactic conquest and the destruction of the Eldar on their to-do list.

>>51056426
It's mentally uncomfortable to not have a soul for most of them. Only a few, who were either psychotic to begin with or are "broken" after they were turned into robots are comfortable with it.

>>51056417

>Necrons taking credit for the existence of Ctan

Looks like you overslept trashcan, because you're wires have gone all screwy. And boy, I'd hate to lose my soul to Slaanesh. What was that like btw? When the Ctan told you they were taking you to disneyland, but then just raped an existential hole into your very being?

>>51056426

This: >>51056462 kinda. A soul is not necessary for life, and we know that, but the problem lies in that the Necrons' bodies attempted a 1:1 simulation of their minds during the transference, minds which had and were developed around a soul-bearing species. Considering the soul is heavily linked to the mind itself, it's not at all presumptuous to suggest that the Necrons currently feel as if something is missing, at least the ones who weren't reprogrammed into barely sapient automatons.

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>>51056426

>We did it! We've conquered the galaxy!
>I feel absolutely nothing other than the harrowing chill of oblivion!

>>51056498
>Now to begin funding the galactic study of the flesh and soul, considering we have all the data from Xenos computers that we took over, it shouldn't take too long until a breakthrough, a few millennia or so

>>51056498
As others have mentioned, they could just try reprogramming themselves to not feel that way anymore.

>>51056496

>it's not at all presumptuous to suggest that the Necrons currently feel as if something is missing

It's not only not presumptuous, it's literally stated in the Necron codex. In the immediate aftermath of bio-transference The Silent King realizes his mistake and describes a gnawing emptiness.

>>51056462
Oh well? They're not SJWs or conservatives who are worried about "uncomfortable" things. They can man up.

>>51056476
>Necrons taking credit for the existence of Ctan
But we kinda did. We found them, gave them bodies, we worshiped them, then when we figured out we'd been tricked we blasted them into a million pieces.

>And boy, I'd hate to lose my soul to Slaanesh. What was that like btw? When the Ctan told you they were taking you to disneyland, but then just raped an existential hole into your very being?
I hardly noticed, otherwise we would've tried destroying the C'Tan sooner. Regardless, a Necron's soul is different from an Eldar's; less prone to destroying the galaxy. How about you ask your grandpa who was eaten by Slaanesh? I'm sure he'd love to describe it to you.

>>51056498
At least they would succeed.

>>51056556

>I put water into a cup
>I created water!
>Also it ate my soul

*Golf clap*

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>>51056556
>we

Nigga come now.

>>51056572

>Incapable of feeling fulfilment
>SUCESS!

>>51056599
Computers can succeed at stuff without *wanting* to.

>>51056582
A false equivalency, the C'tan and their nature was radically changed by their transition to pseudophysical forms, they not only became more mentally cohesive but they also developed more distinct personalities. If you put a CPU that you didn't make into a computer that you made every other part of, you created that computer.

The modern C'tan we know were created by the Necrontyr from the essence of the Old C'tan, just like the Necrons were created by the C'tan from the essence of Necrontyr.

>>51053396
>Before the War in Heaven and the Eldar's emotional spergout, the Warp was just the Warp, without Chaos.

This^
Basically it was the Eldar, Kork, millions of other old one races and Old Ones against the Necrons and C'tan.

The old ones were losing so hard they needed to draw on the warp more and more just to stay alive and weaponizing the warp fucked it up for everybody.
Eventually the enslavers were born and fucked up the last hold outs and the Necrons had to go into hybernation because the galaxy was basically empty of life to feed to the C'tan.

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>>51056622

>I froze water into ice!
>I created h20!
>Also, nihilism grips my very quintessence!

>>51056582
At least we defeated them right after. Which is more than you can say about Slaanesh.

>>51056599
Shh, little one. Do you hear that? Slaanesh is hungry. For your soul. Tell me you're glad to forever be in the shadow of a hungry beast.

>>51056556
WE

>>51056662
Oui.

>>51056498
Nice try chaos, not gonna fall for your soul scam anymore.

>>51056656

>Hungry for your soul

Oh, you mean that soul I still have? Yeah, I'm really I've not last that yet. Could you imagine losing that? What if an entire race lost their souls? Just a whole faction with no capacity for any kind of feeling, joy or sensation other than clawing numbness? Man, imagine if they were even talked into it! Boy, they'd have egg on their face I tell you!

>>51056643

But why didn't the Old Ones just help the Necrontyr from the beginning? I mean, yeah they might have been afraid of the C'tan but still. At least look like you're trying.

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>>51056710
>Oh, you mean that soul I still have? Yeah, I'm really I've not last that yet. Could you imagine losing that? What if an entire race lost their souls? Just a whole faction with no capacity for any kind of feeling, joy or sensation other than clawing numbness? Man, imagine if they were even talked into it! Boy, they'd have egg on their face I tell you!
>Butthurt Eldar can't even admit his race and his soul are responsible for everything bad in the universe
>"B-but muh souls!"
>"But muh feelings!"
>"But muh C'Tan!"

>>51055887
>let your parent race die
>Birth cosmic horror just to fight enemy on semi-even terms
>Still need millions of lesser races like the Kork to do heavy lifting
>Have to wait for the Necrons to destroy the C'tan for you
>After your enemy has killed literal gods while you hid in holes, try to jump them
>Somehow never question why they all just disappeared
>spend 65million years never bothering to look for them
>Fuck yourself in the warphole AGAIN

No... the Eldar are competent, who could ever doubt it.

>>51056728
The Old Ones were just as shitty and petulant as every other race in the history of the galaxy. That's why it's grimdark.

>>51056728

>Let's help this clearly evil race with a super evil name

Yes, who could possibly not trust the NECRONTYR? They seem like friendly folk with their heavy connotations of death and threats of murder if we don't comply. After all, we do owe them.

>>51056793
>Being this dumb because of A NAME

>>51056030
>They lost all relevance and were banished.

I want to remind you that you don't get a consulation prize, it's extinction or nothing. The Eldar claimed victory over a war that never actually ended.
Time was the weapon the Killed the Eldar and the Necrons just need to finish the headstone while they return in force to confront a race that killed itself (like they knew it would).

>>51056013
Actually the Emperor did mind aliens on principle. In the Horus Heresy books its made quite clear by both Horus and Fulgrims men that not killing Aliens on site is disobeying the Emperor and both Primarchs have to shush the complaints of their men about trying to talk to aliens (Eldar in Fulgrim's case).

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>>51056764
>responsible for everything bad in the universe

That is literally your faction's tagline Mr 'Let's Start the War in Heaven'! Also,

>Being proud of being tricked into making literal deals with the devil
>Actually being proud of being autistic!
>Feelings are harrrrd!

>>51056793
>a super evil nam
> "Greetings, old ones. We are the necro... the niceguytyrs."
> And the galaxy was saved.

>>51056789

>Eldar ever giving a fuck about the Old Ones

They never even mention them. They didn't even care enough about Necrons to kill them while they ran. That's how lowly you rated.

>Birth cosmic horror just to fight enemy on semi-even terms

Which faction are we talking about Mr Pot?

>We o-only lost because we got tricked and devolved into in-fighting

Constant excuses are always the best sign of solid generalship. Fucking Soul Cucks.

>>51056789
>Birth cosmic horror just to fight enemy on semi-even terms

You mean Ynnead?

>>51056709
True facts, souls are a liability.

The Warp is not your friend and seeking salvation through it is what fucked everybody to begin with.

Embrace the realm to which you were born and force it's laws down the throat of every warp entity to see until it has to flee screaming back to the shithole that spawned it. Kill any race that can bring that evil down upon us and starve those bastards to death where they live.

>>51056835
>That is literally your faction's tagline Mr 'Let's Start the War in Heaven'! Also,
But we're not responsible for everything bad in the universe. We didn't fuck a Chaos God into existence. We didn't cause a plague of warp beings that eat psykers.

>>Being proud of being tricked into making literal deals with the devil
>>Actually being proud of being autistic!
>>Feelings are harrrrd!
>But muh souls!
>But muh feelings!
Get sucked by Slaanesh.

>>51056935
>But we're not responsible for everything bad in the universe

Denying your role in The War in Heaven eh? I don't blame you. Your big moment really was just a footnote in the long history of Eldar rule.

>Get sucked by Slaanesh.

At least I still have a dick to suck you silver Ken doll.

>>51056835
>Being proud of being tricked into making literal deals with the devil

Better that we had a choice in our devil. Yours doesnt seem to care either way.

Also are decision comes from agency, people with souls are tied to strings of fate and have no freewill.
I'd rather choose my doom than have it thrust upon (or in your case in) me either way.

>>51056960
>Your big moment really was just a footnote in the long history of Eldar rule
>Footnote
>Needed the help of the proto-Orkz and other empires to even stand up to the Necrons
>Still didn't start winning until the Necrons turned on the C'tan themselves
>Footnote

Both Eldarfags and Necronfags really are self-entitled cherry picking shits.

>>51056865
>a super evil 'nam
>instead of communists, the víet cong was backed by nazis

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>>51056986

>>Better that we had a choice in our devil

That makes it worse. You chose to fail. You could have literally MOVED AWAY from the evil clouds of gas and developed health care that wasn't shit. Instead you thought it was a bright idea to give cancer a body.

>Eldar literally manipulate the strands of fate
>Implying they have no freewill
>Majority of Necrons literally have no sentience and are puppets of an insane oligarchy
>Implying they have freewill

MY FUCKING SIDES.

>>51056960
>Denying your role in The War in Heaven eh? I don't blame you.
We started the Enslaver Plague?
>Your big moment really was just a footnote in the long history of Eldar rule.
Compared to the birth of Slaanesh? Yeah maybe.

>At least I still have a dick to suck you silver Ken doll.
How often does your wife suck it? Oh wait, you're not allowed to feel pleasure, right. Then what was all that about muh feelings again?

>>51057005
>Instead of using napalm, America used tactical nukes

>>51056910
>still doesn't address the last 3

Necrons went into hiding because they knew you were too stupid to look, not because they hoped you would be they KNEW.

Now you just have egg on your face and no way to confront a plan as simple as "just sleep them to death".

>>51056998

>Entire Necron history is one war that only serves as a prelude to Eldar dominance

It's a footnote. Necrons are the most shoehorned faction and only serve as yet another secondary antagonist.

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>>51057037
>Eldar literally manipulate the strands of fate
GEE I WONDER HOW THAT WENT

>>51057066
Nah, Tau are the most shoehorned faction, but the actual legacy of the Necrons (or rather Necron/Old One interactions) is still a defining, if not one of the most defining moments in history, sure it didn't last amazingly long but it was pretty much canonically the biggest event that's happened in the recorded 40k timeline other than the creation of the universe itself.

>>51057045
>Instead of conflicting policies and geological power, both sides fought to get the favor of Satan.

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>>51057045

>We started the Enslaver Plague?

You started the war, dipshit. Everything was fine until you sperged about not being entitled to other people's tech.

>Oh wait, you're not allowed to feel pleasure, right.

No, that's you dipshit. We fuck canonically the hottest chicks in the galaxy.

>>51056728
The Necrontyr wanted immortality. And considering they were a warlike race to the extreme that would not rest until all are beneath them or they have destroyed themselves infighting...

The Old Ones might have thought it was a bad idea to give them immortality.

>>51057073

>Thinking farseering has anything to do with birthing Slaanesh

You seem not to understand much about the fall. Farseers didn't even exist then.

>>51057037
>Eldar literally manipulate the strands of fate
Just like how Eldrad managed to totally succeed...wait.

A soul will give you the illusion of free will and even if you can see the strands doesn't mean you can stop them.
Tzeentch is the puppet master here and your souls are the threads that bind you.

>>51057131
Give me the source where craftworlders fucks earth caste girls?

>>51057102

>Nah, Tau are the most shoehorned faction

Not at all. Tau are well incorporated. They don't pretend they've been here all the time and aren't secretly the masterminds and origin of the entire timeline. Necrons were so messily shoehorned they received the single biggest retconning ever with a complete faction re-write. That's how hamfisted they were. Tau are just the new race on the block that are really naive. Slots in really easily and never needed any retcons or created giant plot holes.

>>51055053
But M20 is when humanity starts taking to the stars wholesale. Its about then the navigator gene emerges

>>51057140
>The Old Ones might have thought it was a bad idea to give them immortality.

Hindsights 20/20 too bad foresight cant be that good, huh.

>>51057228

>But M20 is when humanity starts taking to the stars wholesale

Except that didn't happen. DAoT was never the dominant power.

>>51057123
Everybody shut up, we're making something beautiful here!

>>>51057131
>You started the war, dipshit.
But did we start the Enslaver Plague which fucked everyone over? We created Chaos through overuse of the warp? No? It was the Old Ones and the Eldar? Good to know.

>No, that's you dipshit.
We're allowed to, it's just we can't.
>We fuck canonically the hottest chicks in the galaxy.
Sure you do. Whatever you say. After all, a god of pleasure does not loom over you whenever you have sex.

Look, I know I can no longer enjoy the act, but I'm pretty sure most races don't need to mentally prepare themselves against a dark god just to do it.

>>51057149
No, but psykers did. And boy did they exist.

>>51057179

>Just like how Eldrad managed to totally succeed...wait.

Partially created a Death God. Remember when you last created something? Oh wait, you just beg for webway access because you cannot into space.

I am absolutely boggled reading this thread, at the people going "we made X" "you did Y". as if its "us" and "them" and its reality.

>>51057254
>No, but psykers did. And boy did they exist.

They weren't farseering though were they? Or can you not read reply chains?

>>51056013
The Emperor did mind aliens in principle though.

He basically only accepted that aliens could live as slaves. He was, every inch of him, an ignorant xenophobe full of hubris and paranoia. He was the worst of mankind given form.

Which is about what you'd expect from an ancient Anatolian warlord that half-stumbled into supreme power.

>>51057282
* and talking like its reality

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>>51057254

>We're allowed to, it's just we can't.

And on that final kek-inducing piece of raw stupidity I leave to sleep. You remember sleep right numb-nuts? It's that thing you did for millions of years while we had fun. Remember what fun feels like? Lol, of course not. Later giggles.

>>51057284
>They weren't farseering though were they? Or can you not read reply chains?
Farseers use the warp. Using the warp results in bad things. Ergo, farseers result in bad things.

>>51057325
>Muh feelings!
Can you shut up about that? Feelings have done you no good.

>>51056417
>Time to not fuck over the galaxy with psychic byproduct! Later!

Technically the Necrons did do that.

The current state of the Warp is caused entirely by the War in Heaven. Which is what the Necrontyr did to unite themselves because without a common enemy they were too shitty and stupid to do anything but kill one another.

Necron shittiness is the cause of all shittiness in 40K.

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>>51054984
they couldn't cure a disease caused by the creatures that created eldar in the first place, doesn't mean they cant buttfuck space elves at the science fair

>>51057376
>Old Ones cause Chaos through overuse of the Warp
>"But the Necrons started it!"

>>51053178
I remember reading something like that in one of the Eldar codices, but as I recall it was phrased something like "none could stand against them." Very similar meaning, slightly different implications.

Incidentally, does anyone know of anywhere else it says the Eldar were the strongest? It's not that I don't believe them, just that in something with as many contradictions as 40k I prefer to have multiple sources.

>>51056935
But you are. Everything was fine and dandy til you jealous short lived fuck wits met the Old Ones and threw a tantrum because they lived longer. Started a war, got it handed to you, had to give star parasites metal bodies to even the field, Old Ones drew more power from the warp to fight back, creating enslavers in the process and laid the foundations for the warp to be as it is currently. It all leads back to the Necrons and their emo bullshit

>>51055354
>>51055421
>>51055500
>Sun disappears
Gravity wells holding planets and shit just disappeared. Shit will most likely go flying off into space until it hits something else. It'll take some time for that to happen due to the vastness of space, but eventually you'll end up with a lot of (mostly) empty space and pockets with a bunch of rocks floating. All until they get pulled over somewhere else.

>Sun exploded
Now if you mean exploded as in the particles get pushed away, breaking the chain reactions, it'd probably end up the same as the "Sun disappears" scenario. That or if it is de-stabilized in the proper way, it'll go super nova and you get black holes. Neutron stars are also a possibility. Black dwarfs are theoretical but during the IoM, enough time may have passed for us to see them. Plus space magic could turn them into any of these possibilities. But a lot of this depends on the size of the sun in question and how big a "prime" sun is in 40k.

>>51057488
They really did start it. No matter what happened after, it was their hand that made the first spark.

They started the war that wrecked the galaxy. And they did it solely because their own king realized that Necrontyr were SO SHIT they could never unite without someone to direct their venomous, innate hatred at.

Necrontyr are just naturally evil and shitty and the Silent King realized that directing that shittiness was the only way to avoid his species killing itself. And the results of that were so bad he basically abandoned his own race in disgust and went into exile outside the galaxy.

Necrons are shit on a whole other level. The redefine what it is to be shit.

>>51057248
The Great Diaspora - humans seek to remake galaxy in their own image, including seeding worlds with familiar animals.
William King-Grey Hunter


The development of the navigator gene allows human pilots called Navigators to make longer and faster 'jumps' through the Warp than was previously thought possible. The great Navigator families, initially controlled by industrial and trading cartels, gradually become power bases in their own right. Humanity continues to explore and colonise the galaxy, while the human worlds politically unite and a golden age of scientific achievement begins. Non-aggression pacts are signed between humanity and dozens of alien races. Perfection of the Standard Template Construct (STC) system allows an almost explosive Human expansion to the stars. This Golden Age of Mankind continues until M25.
Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader, Space Marine by Ian Watson, Galaxy in Flames
Copy paste from Lexicanum. Sorry. I never said they were the most dominant

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>>51053267
Yeah, but the Ark Mechanicus Speranza is an actual DAoT vessel fighting a post-Fall constructed Eldar warship.

I imagine the Eldar had better ships in their prime, but the killjoy Craftworlders weren't allowed to take them with them when they fled the empire.

>>51057809
First part is from M21, second occured in M22

>>51057583
see
>>51055582
>>51055053

Also >>51055128
In this it is literally stated that the Iron Men armies that fucked mankind in the Old Night were deployed against Eldar and lost.

>>51057821
The Speranza is also totally out of line with all other Archaeotech shown in 40K.

Most DAoT we see, in fact pretty much all DAoT aside from the Speranza, is just 40K level but more efficient and less prone to breaking down.

>>51057228
I always just assumed the Eldar didn't spread out like humans do, and there's no indication they were as xenocidal or territorial as the Imperium.

They reproduce slowly and were more interested in throwing bdsm and razorblade parties than exploration and colonisation. Especially since they could create bespoke pocket realms like Commorragh in the webway, why deal with colonising messy real-world planets?

So while the Eldar were camped out around a couple of thousand systems in what would become the Eye of Terror, humanity nabbed a bunch of backwaters all over the galaxy the Eldar weren't interested in.

>>51056525

Well, since the soul is the seat of identity, a process that duplicates all other functions but destroys the soul is just a euphemism for the necrontyr being destroyed and replaced with robots programmed to think that they're still the same beings that were extinguished long ago. Considering their mind-shattering physics, they may figure out a way to get their souls back, thus making biotransferrance really a transfer (and not just destruction and replacement as it is now). So these deluded robots may yet make true the lie are the core of their existence.

Still a better fate than what befell the Eldar, though, even if the necrons never do manage to recover their souls.

>>51057878
The Speranza is implied to have been powerful as shit even by DAoT standards, when he immerses himself in it's command Manifold, the Arch Magos considers that the reason it's construction might have been abandoned prior to launch was because it's creators were worried about it's potential destructive power.

It's a literal god-machine, it's got the sum-total of DAoT human knowledge ingrained into it's core programming and it's fully sapient. It even states that it's consciousness would survive the destruction of the starship that contains it.

It's not some DAoT planetary defence vessel, the Mechanicus accidentally stumbled across the DAoT version of the Tsar Bomba and it was so advanced they didn't even recognise what they'd found.

>>51057961
>Still a better fate than what befell the Eldar

Didn't the Ctan swallow the Necrontyr's souls in pretty much the same way Slaanesh likes to do to Eldar?

>>51056599

Neither race is capable of feeling satisfied. Necrons are literally incapable of it, and the Eldar because if they did fully experience life, they'd get corrupted and lost to Slaanesh. Both are victims of their own arrogance.

>>51057910
hats what I assume aswell. It seems obvious with their core worlds now being the eye of terror. Not to say they didnt have other real-space colonies aswell, but that they were nowhere near as concentrated. It'd make sense as far as some of the sources ive read saying that mankind colonised much of the galaxy, but they knew to stay away from the pesky powerful eldar

>>51057910
>why deal with colonising messy real-world planets?
Well, some weirdos like gardening I guess.

>>51058043
>some weirdos like gardening

Degenerate exodites...

Man, being a human during the Golden Age must have been great.

>technology has created a utopia where all labour needs are fulfilled and mankind is devoted to its own advancement
>tight alliances with multiple alien species, some of which were so close they survived the Fall and the Old Night, like the Interex's friendships
>extremely fast, precise FTL that puts thousands of worlds at your fingertips, and if you want more, there's still more to explore
>military powers are more than equipped to deal with the threats of the 40K galaxy, easily thwarting incursions by orks and the like
>the greatest threats to the galaxy are fucked pre-emptively by Eldar automated systems at no cost to humanity
>Eldar traders make regular contact with mankind and leisure ships full of wild young elf babes with more fetishes than 4chan are constantly looking for new planets to party on before moving on

Literally perfect.

>>51058008
Yeap.

Technically speaking, the Necrontyr are gone. Necrons are just robots with their personalities.

I love the way you autists are arguing which is better, being unable to feel victory because you have no soul or being unable to feel victory because doing so would drag you off to eternal torture. That's not even mentioning the amount of
>we
in this thread.

>>51058008

The Ctan feasted, the souls were destroyed, The End. They were literally consumed.

Slaanesh engulfs a soul and its identity is preserved in an eternity of torment.

It's the difference between oblivion and hell. Non-existence sucks, but there are far worse fates.

>>51058226
>It's the difference between oblivion and hell. Non-existence sucks, but there are far worse fates.

Actually, the Eldar see soullessness as the worst of fates.

>>51053123
Until post-war in heavens happened and enslavers, psychnoia and all other sorts of warp born shit practically wiped intelligent life from the galaxy.

>>51058113
You may not survive the last > though.
Considering eldars could reincarnate, they may even have made a game out of dying...

>>51058267

I'll be sure to thank them for the opinion.

>>51058177

Very true, but OP's question was answered at the top of the thread.

>>51058574
I'm sure humanity has some pretty sophisticated medical tech by this point.

You'd just have to find the Eldar equivalent of a quiet, nervous virgin girl that only went on spring break with her friends because it was the 'thing' to do.

>>51058574

So you're saying they had kinky eldar snuff porn?

Jesus, I'm not even sure /d/ would be down for that.

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>>51058879
>I'm not even sure /d/ would be down for that.

Clearly you haven't spent much time on /d/. Only a tiny number of particularly deviant fetishes shock them anymore.

>>51059055
Shock? Doubtful.

Willing to participate? Questionable. Maybe if they were the ones staying alive at the end of it.

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>>51057779
>This triggers the Necrofag

>>51049911
Necron>= Eldar >= DAoT

Eldar were able to drive the Necrons to sleep. After the Necrons pretty much spend their ressources against C'tan and Old Ones and the Enslaver project went horribly wrong. So Necrons were above them at their height, but at a time of relative weakness could be driven off.
Eldar were not able to kill off DAoT mankind for the kicks at a time when they only lived for the kicks.
On the other hand that was deffinitly not their Zenit, but long after. Their empire already existed magnitudes longer than the DAoT human one when the latter showed up.

>>51055053
Codex lore is always propaganda of that faction.

>>51057840
At least that's what the Eldar claim. Ramses II. claimed to have won at Hatusha...

>>51057984
Speranza was pretty much a covert cruiser.
Pretend to be all the vulnerable factory ship to provoke an attack. Then it used it's, well hidden, singularity gun...

Almost nothing is known about DAoT. Hence the "Dark Age" part.

>>51059313
Speranza's forges and stuff were probably the result of the Mechanicus attempting to 'fix' a nearly complete DAoT design rather than a deliberate attempt to make it look like a non-combat vessel, in my opinion.

Seems like the sort of thing they'd do, they work out it's engines are 500 times more powerful than anything they have, but instead of marvelling at it's speed, they decide this is because it's clearly missing all the massive granite cathedrals, forges and foundrys that a PROPER ship should have, so they staple a bunch of random crap to it to make it a floating forge world, quadruple it's mass and thus reduce it's mass/thrust ratio down to imperial norms and declare it 'complete'.

>>51059577

This would fit with the fluff in one of the Necron codices. A Necron examines a Leman Russ tank and appreciates the underlying elegance of the design, even as he's disgusted with all the fuckups to its performance due to layers of obvious later attempts to "improve" it.

It's funny what a complex the mechanicus has about making even the slightest changes to a schematic. When all their schematics are riddled with changes that fuck the whole thing up and that they dogmatically refuse to remove.

>>51059313
>Eldar were not able to kill off DAoT mankind for the kicks at a time when they only lived for the kicks.

You're making a big mistake here: the Eldar are not like Humans. They could have gone on massive killing sprees against all non-Eldar all over the galaxy just like Humanity did during the Crusade and in M41. But they didn't. Because they don't care about doing that sort of thing. Just because they didn't wipe out Humanity doesn't mean they couldn't. The Imperium, were they the hegemons, absolutely would have gone on xeno/genocidal campaigns against everything else, and if they didn't kill a species, it might be fair to say that they couldn't. Because that's their MO: if it's not human, drop everything to kill it. That's not what the Eldar did though. They did fight, yeah, but they didn't go on nonsense crusades against everything else for no reason than they're everything else.

>>51061555
In defence of humanity, humans seemed to be a lot more chilled out during the DAoT, and the Great Crusade encountered at least two human cultures that had close relationships with xenos species.

It's mainly the Emprah's doctrine that led to the whole 'Suffer Not The Xenos' thing.

>>51062293
That's why I specified M41 and GC period. There really isn't any excuse for any of that. Before the Interex and Diasporex were introduced, there might have been an argument, but afterwards...

>>51053689
Let's not forget that most of the Imperium tech is based on STC fragments.
And the STCs were manufactory databases intended to aid developing colonies with anything they might need. It's obvious that there was a ton of insane tech developed by various human factions, corporations and empires that was never widely shared like this. Which is why you occasionally find ridiculous artefacts that were probably secret prototypes or cutting edge tech fresh off the assembly lines.

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>IN DA THRED A BUNCHA LOOZA GITZ ARGUIN BOUT WHO DA BIGGEST LOOZA IZ
>ONLY DA ORKZ ARE DA WINNAZ COZ ORKZ IZ MADE FO FIGHTAN N WINNIN
>GREEN IZ BEST GREENTEX IZ BEST TEXT

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>>51063291
>ork """"""""technology""""""

>>51063416
>still manages to fuck up every other ship in the galaxy