>awful model >with awful rules >released after an awful

>>51048363
How is that worse than the pyrovore in any way

>>51048363
do anyone at games workshop actually likes nids? armies liked by the dev team usually get good rules (tau, some mehreens flavors) everyone else gets shit and the occasional OP unit due to lack of balancing
perhaps now that the genestealer cults are a better army than nids GW will update nids during 2017 not to lag behind

>>51048382
the Pyrovore model has the redeeming quality of being a decent biovore stand-in

>>51048363

Tyranids is also the most popular army with females by a landslide. COINCIDENCE?

>>51048439
GW trying to drive women out of the hobby, fucking misogynists.

>>51048363
>Setting full of epic heroes and villains fighting for the fate of the galaxy
>Hurr imma gunna play da npc race of hungy bugs durr!

You nidfags deserve it.

>>51048886
this

>>51048886
Here's the (You) you wanted, Little Timmy.

>>51048363
GW realized a while ago that they want to squat the nids but there's too many of them to do that so they just make them increasingly shit each edition in a hope that people stop caring enough for them to retcon them out of existence without too much hassle.

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>mfw Tyranids is the only race i like in 40.
>mfw the Carnifex is the best 40k model ever for me
>mfw its shit ingame and i keep buying carnifexes from time to time just to glue/magnetize paint them because i love them
>mfw I end up with now 17 carnifexes and i play TAU because tyranid is literally worse than orks

>>51048971
4th ed will never come back

>>51048971
You should just play with a pure Carnifex army.

It would be fun. Fuck bound armies,

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>>51048363

>amazing model
>with awful rules
>released after an awful codex
>in a bid seemingly hoping to create the most awful race in 40k

why does god hate us?

>>51048363
>awful model
But I love the Maleceptor.

>>51049069
2 points

>amazing model

at least its a good model, unlike everything nid as of late

>most awful race in 40k

Excuse me we here at the bottom will fight you for that

PYROVORES SON.

>>51049075
Kill yourself

>>51049052
i should play a pure pyrovore army.

>>51049031
I fucking wish it would.

Ive had my nids packed away for 2 years now.

>>51048363
>Why does God hate us?
Don't know about you but it's probably my rampant fuckboyism and blasphemy.

>>51049085
>kill yourself
No, really, what's so bad about the Maleceptor? It's a legitimately cool looking model. I also like the fact that it looks like it could be an alien muscle wizard, were it not for the fact that said alien muscle wizard has crap rules.

>>51049085
>Excuse me we here at the bottom will fight you for that

Cripple fight? CRIPPLE FIGHT!

ORKANAUTS BRO
NOBZ SQUADS
FLASH GITZ

And as a counter-point

FLYING HIVE TYRANTS

>>51049052
>It would be fun. Fuck bound armies,

Unbound armies are more balanced than bound.

I love tyranids, they need a buff. I like watching matt play them on mwg youtube.

>>51049117
i hate that its a massive brain propped up ona weird centaurlike body, and its a bizzare shift away from the normal look of something like a zoan.

Zoans have fucked up little bodies cause all they need is that big brain

For some reason this bigger, more powerful brain needs a FUCKHYUGE body that is fucking swole and massive scything talons, it lacks singularity of purpose in its design, and it was obviously designed so that the toxicrene kit would have another half

Not that the toxicrene is good looking either, its a poor model too.

They should both be more like the Malanthrope, which would be a logical progression from their Zoan and Venomthrope predecessors

Granted I hate almost all the post 4th edition tyranid models, too many look like bloated creatures with tumors, the Exocrine, Haruspex, Tyrannofex (cancer), and the Tervigon are all very bad not very nid looking things

>>51048886
>Actually liking Herohammer
Go play Warcraft or something kiddie, it seems more your speed.

Just bought the 3 warriors, hive tyrant, gargoyles pack today just to model and paint, not for playing.

Give me good ideas for converting the Hive Tyrant. Should I magnetize it or settle for a specific build? What's the best build for Hive Tyrants in 7th?

>>51049240
flyrants with brainleech are the only hive tyrants.

>>51049052
Except it wouldn't be fun because they'd all get killed by turn 2.

Tyranid MCs were slow squishy walking disappointments just waiting to absorb cheesey AP3 rape from the other side of the board.


Not to mention all the ridiculous bullshit every silly space marine chapter inexplicably gets to use now with semi-magical special characters, psykers and power-weaponrape.

I once tried fielding 2 FW barbed heirodules. Never even got them into combat thanks to furfaggoty dreadnaughts with grav-guns and fucking frost cannons. COS SPESS WULVES ARE SO COOOOOL

>>51048363
Has anyone tried turning that into something like 2e Zoanthrope? Put it on Carnifex or Hive Tyrant legs.

Honestly nids have suffered the most from the insistence of GW for every kit to make two different models because its ended up with too many similar looking creatures that lack the singularity of purpose of older tyranids.

>>51049282
I think it's way too big for those legs.

>>51049276
Barbed Heirodules have been shit since 5th edition at least.

Everytime i hear nidfags bitching about how their book sucks i have flashbacks to the days of nidzilla.

>>51049320
>MUH NIDZILLA

what is a meme list that wasn't even that good?

we're playing jeopardy right?

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>>51049331

Nidzilla was a very solid list that a retarded monkey could play and win with.

It could be countered but it took a lot of skill and some good dice.

I had an easier time dealing with daemon bombs then i did nidzilla.

>>51049366
Nidzilla was not a very solid list, it had a bunch of problems and could be torn to shreds, the elite-fexes were mostly DISTRACTION CARNIFEXES due to their points cost, and most nidzilla lists could be pounded into the dirt by a smart player

Much more terrifying were the endless swarm lists, and well used broodlord deepstrike squads which usually raped anything they touched because holy fuck the broodlord was a monster back then.

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>>51049366
[Citation Needed]

I was there for nidzilla and it was not that good

>>51049400
nidzilla shit on casuls and it made them cry

>>51048382
Doesn't have a colossal penis

>>51049392
>>51049400

Ok you guys are right.

Nidzilla was never at the top tables of adepticon and other large tourneys.

I mean its not like a solid 1/3 of the top table list during 4th ed was bugzilla and the other top 1/3 lists being deamon bombs or anything.

Oh and when chaos had lash of submission? yeah that list was not a top tier list at all... same with leafblower IG, GK win button army ect ect ect.

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>>51049425
Says you with no battlereport or tournament report

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>>51049436
"Everything I say is true! Just believe me! in fact i could easily back up my claim but i just choose not to!'

-you

>>51049439
>battlereport about nidzilla shitting on casuls

I could maybe dig up an old white dwarf that showed off the hive fleet moloch nidzilla list

>>51049458

Not all of us save battle reports for 11(ish) years annon...

>>51049191
The square cube law explains giving it legs instead of simply having it levitate. Brain power is a function of surface area while mass is a function of volume. Simply doubling the dimensions of a zoanthrope will mean that four times the psychic power is now levitating 8 times the mass. Giving the Malanthrope legs means that the psychic power is no longer levitating it and can be devoted to other uses.

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>>51049635
except there's already a big levitating Nid

The Malanthrope

Fuck the Malaceptor.

>>51049654
Isn't it gas that allows Venomthropes and Malanthropes to levitate? The square cube law aids gas based levitation because the levitation is a function of volume.

>>51049679
No Malanthropes psychically levitate. They are synapse creatures. They're also super smart DNA processing monsters that aid norn queens

>>51049436
4th ed was nowhere near the degeneracy of 5th.

>>51049731
>tervigon spam

>tervigons were only good cause they had access to biomancy and once that was taken away they were turned to shit.

It hurts.

Ok guys i'm going to fix Tervigons.

>Still are an upgrade to termagaunts

>Nids can still take without number

>If the Termagaunts that have without number have a Tervigon, each turn any models that died are replaced, if the whole squad (minus the tervigon) dies, they come back from the Tervigon itself

>If the Tervigon is dead its dead and Termagants come from the board edge, as normal

>Tervigons can now get Fleshborer hives because OBVIOUSLY THEY SHOULD GET FLESHBORER HIVES

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>>51049731

3rd and 4th was the golden age of 40k.

There were some things that sucked sure. but by in large 3rd and 4th was the golden age.

>>51049745

T9 Tervigons can fuck right off though. Still have nightmares about that.

>>51049826
I miss the 3rd edition mutable genus rules...

>>51049834
oh yeah that was silly

>>51049855
they were mostly folded into the 4th ed rules

Sadly no heavy support warriors all toting venom cannons

>>51049867
no gargoyles with devourers

>>51049855
I miss playing Kroot Mercenaries.

>>51049635
Psykers shit on material physics tho.

>>51048886
Tim, mah boy, this is why the other kids don't play with you.
On a more serious note, are you so unimaginative that you need your heroics and villiany spoon-fed to you?
>Here is Marine DudeMan, my favourite unit. He fought the Orks to a standstill!
Nice, did you win that game? What list were you running?
>None, I'm reffering to the books.

At least my nameless genestealer #16 can brag about actually doing shit on the board. He wrecks my Tau/Cron friends and loves to click his mandibles about it. I also have plenty of villiany, like Tervigon [Blue] who is a bitch and hates giving me termagants.

>>51050008

I miss having good line of sight rules.

>>51050124
On-table shit is, and always will be, more fun than in-fluff shit.

I won't ever forget my friend's tau firewarrior, posed in a weird crucifixion stance due to him gluing the arms on weird, surviving a dakkajet wiping out his entire unit, and then my entire ork army's combined shooting phase two turns in a row, before running off the table edge unscathed.

Tau Jesus is, and always shall be, immortal.

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thoughts on this as a Hive Tyrant head?

>>51048971
>>51049052
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TcYCQ4ZGHg

>>51050275

>im going to death or glory... with EVERYONE!

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I'm hungry...

I know this is anecdotal evidence but at my flgs we have a pretty healthy meta, there are slot of space wolves but all the races have some fair representation and we all have fun playing against each other.

One friend plays nids (not flyrant circus) and does fairly well in most of his games, even taking down a riptide wing

Another plays orks because he loves the aesthetic and is always cracking jokes , he and everyone he plays has a great time.

Shit I play tau but field kroot, veapids, hounds, even the fireworks piranha from time to time.basically the game is fun if you don't try to hammer a time list on everything

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>>51050275
>Mrw

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>>51050275
>>51050589

>>51050553
Except some models are awful and are unplayable, and groundnids are basically garbage because strength 10 pieplates that ignore cover

>>51050553
>>51051009

The world is a much better place without all the WAAC faggotry.

>>51051150
>waac faggotry
>wanting an army that functions

>>51050247
Do it.

I took a second edition tyrant head, cut and placed part of a 2E zoanthrope crest piece over the heads maw; bend the jutting barbs downwards and after a lot of saw, pin vice and file work, opened the mouth up.

When it comes to a hive tyrant, have fun, get creative, go fucking wild with your imagination. Hive Tyrants and Carnifexes are the absolute most fun that I have ever had modelling.

>>51050205
....so back in 5E a wave serpent literally rammed through and cut a my land raider in half.

Fun is evil and should be destroyed. Fuck RNGesus.

>>51048382
pyrevore is wasted 40 points. this is wasted 200+ points

>>51049867
i still remember when the rumour mill started for 5th edition codex and all venom cannon/stranger warrior squads were said to be heavy support choice.

and now i feel sad

>>51049826
I disagree because my life is different than yours.

>>51051379
that was a thing and 3rd and they were great cheap HS that could knock shit out

>>51048382
205 points. The most expensive non-character monstrous creature in the codex and also the worst.

I actually think it looks cool.

HOWEVER

I think GW HQ should be rounded up, bent over and fucked to death for what they did to muh nids in terms of rules.

>absolute rape machine in the fluff
>shit rules made everyone forget they BTFO the Cadians and Mephiston

THe malaceptor was portrayed as the scariest fucking thing in the tyranids arsenal along with the toxicrene, why are they so shit on the tabletop?

>>51051794
>NPC race

>>51048382
Pyrovore actually LOOKS good, it's a lizard-bug-gorrila with a cannon on its back.

>>51048886
Setting full of self absorbed edgelord arseholes fighting for fucking stupid reasons. Ha, I'm going to play a race that ignores all that bollocks and is the embodiment of life itself, that just wants to eat and grow.

>>51048363
wtf si that thing

>>51051794
stop reading novels.
the novels are dumb.
the novels are wrong.

even when the novels are right, most people on /tg/ are too dumb to translate what happens in them into a relative power level.

see the tau pulserifle thread

>>51051324
engridh even do you

>>51051815
I think you just like the giant, veiny dick on its back

Because you are a gay man

And you like dick

Because you are a homo faggot

Who likes the pyrovore model

>>51051960
Eh, I like knuckle-dragging ape monsters a lot, cannon or no cannon.

>>51050275
>the mental image

In reality it'd stop at the first dude, then spend a few turns slapping a few guardsmen dead before drowning in bodies.

>>51049295
Could you mount a Zoanthrope head on a Warrior body?

Like most of the newer Nids, the Malaceptor suffers badly from failing at doing the thing it's supposed to do. For some reason that's a recurring thing with Nids. Big psychic monster that's a shitty psyker, heavy anti-armour shooting unit that can't hit the broad side of a barn and doesn't even get ap3. The Pyrovore...

>>51049240
>not for playing.
>What's the best build for Hive Tyrants in 7th?

I'm getting mixed signals anon.
Just build the coolest thing. Choose whatever weapon combo gives you a chubby.

>>51049834
Nothing compared to the Heirophant with the 3++ because of wording between editions.

>>51051815
the only problem with the model is that it can't move it's front limbs

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>>51048363
>it could have been the glorious return of the 2nd ed zoanthrope aesthetic
>instead it was detailless cad bullshit done in a few days

to be honest, I'm still in doubt whether to buy it just to make it resemble the old model and use as stand in for a second exocrine or tyrannofex

>>51052192
then buy the old and stfu

>>51051882
I didn't realize the shield of Baal campaign books released with tons of new rules and scenarios were novels, how embarrassing

>>51049276
>furfaggoty dreadnaughts with grav-guns
Wolves don't have grav weapons?

>>51049293
It doesn't help that almost ALL our MC (even the CC dedicated ones) have 4 attacks or less and WS3, hows the carnifex or haruspex meant to be scary when a guardsman has a 50% chance to deflect it. On top of that almost all our monstrous creatures are diluted to fuck, half of them aren't unique or necessary and feel more like a chore to remember them.

I miss my swarm army

>>51048363
The rules -aren't- good, but it got a buff with his signature power does not need roll to hit anymore.

>>51052419
They don't No idea what anon is on about.

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>>51048363
I kinda like the model. I agree on the rest, but the concept of a heavily-armored brainbug isn't horrible.
That said, if it had a better statline and wasn't saddled with both a godawful power and a huge pricetag I could see myself using one. Let's say something like this:

130pts

WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W5 I4 A5 Ld10 Sv3+
Monstrous Creature

Wargear:
Scything Talons

Special Rules:
Synapse Creature, Psyker (Mastery 2), Shadow in the Warp, Psychic Barrier: A model with this special rule has a 4+ invulnerable save.

Psychic Powers:
A Maleceptor always knows the Psychic Scream psychic power. A Maleceptor generates its remaining powers from the Powers of the Hive Mind.

Options:
- May take items from the Biomorphs and Thorax Biomorphs lists.
- May replace its Scything Talons with Crushing Claws - 15pts

>>51052570
All it needs then is for the Tyranids to have some more variety in their psychic powers. What they have is decent, but I'd like to see a few more powers that focus on bolstering tyranid forces.

The Maleceptor also needs something more than just the basic powers (and Psychic Overload), it needs some powerful ability that makes people want to take it. Like a short ranged D-strength attack, or some kind of aura power that bolsters nearby forces

>>51052643
At 205 fucking points? On a slow-ass fragile platform? No, thank you.

>>51052684
Nah mate, was replying to >>51052570 who recommended it be 130pts roughly. 205pts is an absurd price for what it offers, way too expensive.

desu, most if not all tyranid MCs are overpriced for what they offer. Each one could do with 30-50pt reduction

>>51052192
Wow, now THAT's an awful design.

>>51052718
>tyranid prime points increase

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>>51052643
>What they have is decent, but I'd like to see a few more powers that focus on bolstering tyranid forces.
IF ONLY THERE WAS AN ENTIRE SCHOOL OF PSYKER POWERS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO BUFF YOUR OWN UNITS. THAT WOULD BE FUCKING AWESOME RIGHT! IT COULD BE BIOLOGICALLY THEMED TOO. IT COULD BE CALLED BIOLOGIMANCY OR SOMETHING. IT COULD HAVE POWERS THAT INCREASE TOUGHNESS OR STRENGTH OR SPEED. IF THE TYRANIDS HAD ACCESS TO POWERS LIKE THAT THEY WOULD BE FUN AND FLUFFY AND INTERSTING AND POWERFUL.

i hate gw so much.

>>51048363
>awful model
But it's not though?

>>51052851
The stupidest thing about the Tyranid Prime points increase was it was completely unnecessary! Nobody took it to begin with and it wasn't very powerful if you did take it, so why did it need a 40pt increase?
So many units have been priced into uselessness


>>51052857
Yeah losing Biomancy was pretty harsh, it was the only thing keeping us competitive for awhile. I can see why people had their issues with it, but comparing that to what other factions had it hardly seems fair we lose the one thing keeping us afloat

>>51048946
They are trying to that with SoB, threw 4 bones to like the supposed 10 SoBfags. And surprise it seems there are more than just 10 guy buying, enough to run out twice within minutes.

I'm laughing hard at the idiots that bought Vyridian just to re-sell

>>51052912
i think gw has some kind of hatred for nids with 7+ toughness. thats what it is. they just have some kind of irrational prejudice against it.

>>51052957
don't forget that we basically can't access 2+ saves or invuln saves anymore

>>51052957
I actually think nobody at gw knows what to do with tyranids anymore, it really looks like they have no direction or clue as to how they're going to handle the faction.They are the one army that stands out among the others in terms of goals/design/tactics and I think that worries the game designers.

Just look at our Gargantuan/Monstrous creatures. Nothing Melee is given the chance to melee, nothing ranged is worth taking. Riptides are cheaper than our MCs and out perform them, our big guys are a joke on the table.

All the problems with our codex can also be easily solved by giving most units a 20-50 point reduction and allowing us to purchase upgrades for our dudes. Nobody would complain if a Carnifex was 110pts but cost 20-30pts to become 2+, but gw seems scared to give freedom of choice to any army much less the nids (who need it the most)

They can do them justice in the fluff, but as a table top army gw really seems to be at a loss.

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>>51053051
Literally the entire 'nid codex could be fixed by reducing the point values throughout and making one relevant change per unit.
For example:
- Warriors: T5
- Carnifex: 2+
- Maleceptor: Psychic Scream instead of Psychic Overload
- Tervigon: no longer runs out of spawns
- Pyrovore: Rending or Torrent
- Haruspex: Rage & Rampage
- Genestealers: take Genecult Stealers
- Hormagaunts. Run & Charge
- Exocrine Ignore Cover

From there, maybe tweak the stats on the gear and you're good.

As an encore, change Synapse to be an asset instead of a liability, as in everything follows normal rules outside synapse but gains Fearless and Preferred Enemy or Feel no Pain inside it.

>>51051379
Was it 4th or 5th when they changed venom cannons so that they only glanced against vehicles?

>>51052005
Pretty easily i think. Easier than putting HT or carni legs on a Maleceptor.

>>51053301
Exocrine needs more range, not Ignore Cover

>>51053301
>T5 Warriors
I will never understand this not being a thing already. In a game of a billion broken units, the T5 warrior would still be low-tier, but at least he'd be fielded....

>>51048363

Wharhammer is all Space Marine hammer now.

Everything else is done on the side

>>51048363
>why does god hate us?
It's because you abandoned the True Way of Rogue Trader, moron. Your crime is its own punishment.

>>51048439
You're saying GW gave the nids -4 strength?

So what does a good tyranid army look like? Deathspitter drop pod spam or?

>>51053920
Flying hive tyrants. Flying hive tyrants everywhere. Preferrably in the formation that gives you respawning gargoyles that grant the hive tyrants cover saves.

>>51048886

It's all about (you)'s

>>51053950
Are there any other ways?

>>51053956
Not as far as I know, at least if you want to do anything in the torunament scene. While most armies are closer to monobuild than not (even competitive armies usually only have a handful of top-tier builds; I play Tau and they have 2 or 3), Nids literally have one type of list that sort of works.

>>51048886
>a science-fiction wargame shouldn't include an army type to simulate the well trodden sci-fi trope of a ravenous insectood species with a gestalt consciousness.

You're dumb.

>>51048363
Look-wise the maleceptor is actually really cool, and it references the old 2nd end zoan so there's that

I think the concept on powerful psyker on a strong physical chassis is pretty cool

Crunch-wise however...they should at least make overload warp charge 1 for hive-mind's sake

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>>51053920

How do we make the maleceptors psychic overload power work more like the fluff? In the campaign book, pretty much everyone who was so much as brushed by those tendrils had their heads explode instantly, only Dante and Mephiston were able to stand up to it and even they weren't entirely unaffected.

Are Tyranids not shit in 500-1000 point Zone Mortalis games? I love their theme and aesthetic but it just seems unfun to play fluffy Tyranids in normal 40k.

>>51049136

>ORKANAUTS

I don't know if it's indicative of anything, but the Orkanauts can slap Tyranid monstrous creatures around with near impunity in melee.

One of the few uses the thing does have.

>>51056773
Honestly WC 1 is prob all it needs. And to be on a better platform. As a spell, it's actually pretty sweet. Maybe make it do a single Pen on a vehicle rather than a Glance

IMHO

I miss the Endless Swarm the most. Then again I like running so many bugs the table has no room for my opponent's Army.

>>51048363
because you're XENOS SCUM!!!

>>51048401
And this is why GW thinks the pyrovore is good

>>51054206
whi tf plays 2300 points ?
how is that shit good anyway ?

>>51058048
Im with you on that

Also can we look at carnifex? 4 attacks, S9 WS3.. 120pts

Dreads have 6 S10 attacks at higher WS for 40 points cheaper iirc, Our MCS need to be more formidable, bump carnifex to WS4 give him 6 attacks, lower his cost and give him option to buy better armour save

>>51053301
Agree with most of this but make carnifex armour an upgrade
Tervigon give it some sorta support weapon like fleshborer hive or BL devourers
Haruspex definitely needs rage or rampage and better WS
Exocrine could get its ranged boosted to 36? Even 30 id be happy with

Synapse creatures gain 6+ FNP
Bring back without number for a purchase on gaunt squads

>>51058107
Because flyrants are the only efficient unit in the whole Codex.

However a pure flyrant list is probably not as good as a flyrant/mawloc/zoey list.

>>51058256
i think the funniest part about nids is that we're supposed to have MCs to make up for our lack of strong walker vehicles and tanks

But our MCs are squishier than walkers and tanks, and worse than other race's MCs

Sasuga GW

>>51058304

>our MCs are squishier than walkers

I assume you forgot about eldar walkers, ork kans and militarum sentinels.

Besides, according to what people say around these threads, walkers aren't all that durable anyway.

>>51058421
In my experience walkers aren't bad at all, they usually pack a semi decent amount of fire power (especially eldar)

They aren't as durable as tanks usually sure, but most walkers are massively cheaper than any of our MC and not really any worse in some cases

>>51058518
>In my experience walkers aren't bad at all
Having said that they haven't been especially good, they just perform semi decent most games

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>>51048363
I fucking hate the brain holes!
Why bother to evolve armor plates to cover your huge brain if it's totally exposed like that anyway?

I guess this is how feminists feel about Power Girl...

>>51058776
The brain probably needs some areas exposed to broadcast all that hive mind and cast that much psychic power. They don't really need armor since they had 2+ invulnerable save in the fluff

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honestly i don't even play nids but want them to be good because they are more exciting to fight than eldar /tau / marines all the time

>>51049366
Is that magpie fucked? Fluffwise here, could he kill whatever the fuck that is? I'm not too clued up on nids, I kind of assumed their whole thing was hordes of the tiny gaunts with a few armoured giants to break forts and shit, not a fucking t-rex or whatever that is.
newfag to 40k encase you couldn't tell so take it easy

>>51058256
carnofex need to be 70 point base with lots of customisation

synaspe must give Eternal warrior like in the good ol days

>>51059843
That's a Hive Tyrant and, unless hes got plot armor, the magpie is completely fucked

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>>51059843
Looks like a Hive Tyrant, big scary leader bug.

Fluffwise you need heavy weaponry to reliably bring one down, tabletop stats wise the thing has T6, 4 wounds and a 3+ armour save so you would need lots of bolt pistols to kill it. Of course its a space marine character, he could kill it with nothing but his dick if the story demanded it. But barring plot armour he is fucked.

>>51059843
you know how other races have their fancy leaders with heroic stories?

Instead of that the Tyranids have giant fucking dinosaur monsters called 'hive tyrants' which are just as smart, but are giant scary t-rexes that are tough as nails and deadly as can be

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>>51048363
Nah, Nids are inarguably the most boring, and boring antagonists one could imagine for a game like 40k. In a universe filled with numerous factions and practically unlimited potential for alien races with unique themes, the Tyranids represent one of the worst combinations of such themes. Although they try to emmulate the "Generic Space Swarm" cliche, they fail utterly. They are at worst, a laughable enemy that is used as an eraser for things that GW wishes to be retconned(Squats) and than promptly smashed away by a single Hero(Maugan Ra), or at best, a Mary Sue abomination that does everything, but even better than those who specialize in it. For Example:

>Over powers the Chaos Gods in the warp
>More resiliant and advanced than the Necrons
>More elite than the Space Marines, and even steal the secret of Geneseed, ala Tyrant Guard
>More Numerous than Orks and Humans put together, thanks to 12 galaxies of biomass
>Better at adapting and shooting than the Tau, only being beaten by Tau's plot armour
>Outspeeds the Eldar, and have better psychic powers than even Eldrad, supposedly, thanks to the hive mind. Only Tigirius, Ultrasmurf Librarian, and considered one of the strongest Psychers in the galaxy, was able to even TEMPORARILY make contact with it.
>Able to push entire daemon armies out of realspace, and is "uncorruptable" by chaos
>Considered the ultimate master at tactics, due to millenia of training, evolution, and the ability of the Hivemind, which makes all Tyranids one being
>Execpt when they choose not to be one being, and instead have stupid creatires like the Swarmlord and Old One Eye running around.
>Doesn't matter how many you killed, it was just another scout fleet. Eventually the main fleet will arrive, and utterly wipeout the the Galaxy

>>51060659
yes, that would be what 'cosmic horror' is. And Tyranids are 'cosmic horror'

>>51060659

This frequent gap between some incarnations of Tyranids in both the fluff, and the rules, makes them utterly pointless. Tyranids rarely impact the setting in any meaningful way, have little to do with the history of the universe of 40k, and overall, should NEVER EVER lose, if their codex is to be believed. They have beaten gods, defeated the Emperors finest armies, and so, so, SO much more. But yet, every other book, whole fucking hivefleets just get wiped away like they're nothing.

Infact, Tyranids are so utterly worthless as antagonists, that Orks, well known as the comedic relief faction, works FAR better as a antagonist. Rules and fluffwise wise, Its clear to see that the GSC outshine their supposed "mother faction". Heck, Tyranids should be a supplement for GSC

>>51060758
>every other book

If by every other book you mean their own codex

ecks dee.

>>51051177
If nobody takes the retarded shit almost all armies function. Some units are "that one strong unit" and some units are relative underperformers, but in diverse unfocused armies it all balances out.
Designing armies is fun and all, but I want to have a 50/50 game against the guy with the leman russ and 40 little plastic mans with lasguns more than I want to apply my theorized optimized lists to reality.

>>51060835
yes, almost all armies function

Except for Tyranids, who are active penalized for playing anything but flying circus and is forced to take a bunch of useless units that act as living bombs within their own armies if they want anything else.

>>51060701
Execpt, even then, they dont even play by that cliche. The Tyranids are easily understood, and have a precise, clear and obvious goal: The assimiliation of biomass. They aren't sone MADDENING ELDRITCH ABOMINATION FROM BEYOND THE STARS, they're just a bunch of bugs that can do everything ever.

I actually think i could fix the entire tyranid codex and keep the unique characters intact to an extent by refluffing them as a specific strain and saying 1 per army. Besides the rebalancing they'd have tod o

Like OOE could be replaced by the 'omega carnifex', a special carnifex breed produced by hive fleets when they're close to being wiped out, thats basically unkillable due to its insane regeneration (would use the 3rd ed rules where he just gets the fuck back up from dying sometimes), and acts as a synapse creature.

Fuck, then you could even let people customize their 'special characters', and use the fluff to say OOE was one such creature

>>51060915
I mean, the point of the shadow in the warp is exactly the thing you're talking about, contact with the hive mind drives most psykers utterly mad, with the significant exception of Tigurius.

>>51060659
>Although they try to emmulate the "Generic Space Swarm" cliche, they fail utterly.

How can you seriously argue this? I have yet to see a depiction of a space bug swarm that is outright superior.

Also their aesthetics as a faction are fantastic, more recent models excepted.

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>>51051396

>did not care too much for the days of RT
>2nd was ok
>3rd was a blast
>4th was a blast
>5th was meh
>6th and on just suck

Though i can see where younger people coming into the game not knowing the glory that was 3rd and 4th like the current rules set.

>>51061024
I have seen people try to call 3e bland but I would much rather have it than the current clusterfuck of giant models and endless special rules.

>>51060758
This is why the zerg are better

>>51061024
CHAIN KNEES (+1point?)

>>51060972
Execpt its not. The Shadow in the Warp is a side effect of the Tyranids Hivemind, and truly only affects Psykers in such a way.

>>51061151
"its like that but it isn't like that this isn't cognitive dissonance at all"

fuck off

>>51061024

5E being meh proves it was the most balanced.

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>>51061078
le blizzard bait lel
le troll le xddddd

Zergs are literraly being btfo by everyone, and are rules by the most imcompetent beings in the universe

>>51061078
Almost fell for this bait, this one's pretty effective

>>51048383

Goodwin possibly does, but he doesn't write rules.

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>>51051835
Wow you are trying really hard there Anon

>>51058776
>Why bother to evolve armor plates to cover your huge brain if it's totally exposed like that anyway?

Ha! I'm immune to everything! Except small children with pointy sticks...

I fucking miss 5th Edition.

>>51062835

Me too. I told you guys all the 6E changes like allies and flyers and hull points and challenges and fortifications were bad news. Now look where it got us.

>>51062835
I miss Ward.

>>51062900
Pretty sure those were all in 5th edition.

>>51062938

No they weren't you faggot. Literally none of them were except fortifications as part of planet strike expansion and flyers as skimmers.

>>51062954
Well, uh. Nevermind then.

I fucking miss 6th Edition before the BS formations came out.

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>>51048383
Phil Kelly's played Tyranids since 3rd edition and has a substantial collection, up to and including a Hierophant, Nancy. Not to mention that he wrote their 4E codex which followed heavily in the footsteps of Andy C's previous one.

Then in 5th edition he assisted (at the time) new boy Robin Cruddace in toning down and streamlining it - and then some - because apparently they felt that was necessary.

Now, as far as I'm aware, Kelly doesn't even do rules anymore, or at least not as much, and it's been this way for a few years. He worked on recent stuff like Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults, but in each case had a co-writer who focused on the crunch (that's how the designers' notes made it seem anyway).

>>51049426
It does have multiple prehensile psychic penises though.

>>51053518
3rd: Glancing only
4th: Glancing only unless vehicle is open-topped
5th: Above restriction removed, but -1 penalty to vehicle damage rolls for both glancing and penetrating hits unless vehicle is open-topped
6th: Penetrates/glances normally, no penalties or restrictions

>>51058776
Zoanthropes too, the previous generation far more so than the current ones in fact. Gotta show off the goods.

>>51062990

I don't. It was all Heldrakes and Night Scythes and that stupid unbeatable White Dwarf Daemons list until their actual hardcover codex "nerfed" them by making them simply a top army instead of the only army.

>>51063036
I played chaos without heldrakes and I won all the time in 6th. Used a couple daemon princes though.

>>51063150

With wings?

>>51063005
They need the Eldar codex team..or the Tau team

>>51063378
no we just need Chambers and Kelly back together

>>51050205

I'm one with the greater good and the greater good is with me

>>51060659
>advanced
I wish.

I'd love to see a 'smart' tyranid queen decide to start using tech and the innate species knowledge of 12 galaxies to start massively armoring up and upgunni.ng their species.

Like Hover Carnifexes with black hole guns or Zanthropes with giant cylindrical mech suits that power massive artillery cannons, or gaunts in tanks.

>>51065299
apparently every other galaxy is shit because that is what nids have done. Their biotech should be the rival of the greatest the galaxy has to offer

AHAHAHAHAH

fuck this gay universe

What if they just allowed big bugs to be attached to appropriate classes of little bugs? It would play into the swarm mechanic well since it encourages troop choice use, but also grant much more survivability to big bugs so you can actually use them.

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would adding a smaller Tyranid drone fighter help them?

>>51066796
NO

STOP ADDING MORE FLYING SHIT

>>51066890
but they're so neat anon

>>51066910
FUCK YOURSELF

>>51066349
That's basically the ezmode of how to fix their codex. It's worth putting points into higher-cost badass monsters if you can basically buy them ablative wounds to get them across the board.

The problem is that's assuming that your little bugs HAVE to be shit and your big bugs HAVE to be also kind of shit. Why not see a Tyranid monster with the speed, armor, and versatility of a Riptide? Fuck, 'nids invented everything that the Riptide is doing better right now. Why are Ork assault troops cheaper than the literal garbage assault bugs? Why are our equivalents to tanks easy as fuck to kill and aren't worth the points to upgrade, even if there were any upgrades worth taking?

At the very least give some 5+ invulnerable saves up for purchase. Hell, 'nids are still mentioned in the BRB as a race that gets invul saves for being freakishly tough, but they completely removed that mechanic from their book.

>>51066945
i miss when Hormies were beasts

>>51061216

5e started the current trend of fuckhuge minis everywhere.

It also made the rules shift to TLOS which is just silly in a squad based minis game. It works very well for single mini to single mini games like LOTR. but for squad based games 4th ed LOS was the best LOS rules 40k has ever seen.

>>51066910

Flyers are retarded and belong only in apoc games.
Right there with formations, super heavies, gargantuan creature and "lords of war"

>>51066349

>i want a hive tyrant with 30 wounds
>this is fair

I could see granting them a 4+ or maybe a 3+ "cover" save if they have a small bug unit between the big one and the shooting unit. but then the little bastards have to take the hits, they dont just magic away.

>>51067365
so its no problem with a patriarch but it is with a tyrant ?

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>>51048363
>>In a bid seemingly hoping to create the most awful race in 40k

You rang?

>>51048363
>>released after an awful codex
>awful codex

As a Space Marine player i am inclined to unironically inform you that you that you are full of shit.
Flyrants are decent so you should just shut the fuck up.

>>51067627
>space marine player
>telling anyone to shut up

toppest of keks

>YOUR BOOK HAS ONE DECENT UNIT, SHUT UP NID PLAYER

you're fucking retarded, kys

>>51067413
>incubi
>bad
have fun with fleet and AP2 S+2 power weapons and a host of other good rules in one of the fastest factions in the game

>>51067742

I realize the mistake of posting a picture of the best unit in the army as an example, but the DE on the whole are far and away the worst book in the game.

>>51067767
nah they're fine

plus they can ally with eldar

>>51067767
They're in the bottom Tier but they're better off than both Tyranids and Orks.

So, do you guys (and/or grills) think adding just the (old-style - i.e. destroyed unit returning to fight 2 turns later) Endless Swarm (w/o touching anything else) would solve 90% of 'nid problems?

>>51067975
Nids are so broken that no single change would solve 90% of their problems.

No single change could possibly solve more than 10% of their problems.

>>51068001
Age of the Emperor would fix 100% of their problem.
Monstrous creatures profile in the game are just that : fucking monstrous.

>>51049718
They also use gas.

>>51048363
40k fans should be quarantined to /toy/

>>51048363
So what does this thing do, just vomit psychic powers?

>>51068098
>a complete redesign of the core rules and every Codex in response to this fundamental paradigm shift in the gameplay could fix 100% of problems were it executed correctly
I hear water is also wet.

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>>51068297
It has access to the normal Tyranid powers, but (in theory) its main purpose is to be a psyker/hero/special weapon-carrier assassin.

>>51068430
Toughness is good, but I feel like a 3+ save would be better for such a big beast.

>>51048363
>awful model
This is the first time I've heard this. Most complaints I know are about the rules.

>>51068430
So correct me if I'm wrong, been awhile since I played 7th edition. But doesn't its special ability require 3 separate psychic attempts to be rolled for, which would mean on minimum you need to use 6 warp charges? That's assuming each roll is perfect, but either way that a lot warp charges required

>>51068352
changing the rulebook is a single change.

>>51068490
yes

fortunately you don't have to roll to hit anymore

>>51068490
yup

>>51068451
>205 points
>+4 save
>only 6 toughness
>awful psychic power

reasonable.

>>51061216
5th? Balanced? We're talking about the edition where Ward's Grey Knights and Necrons came out. Before that it was Space Wolves. Blood Angels. Holy fuck are you retarded or something? Did you actually play the game in 5th?

>>51068430
make the psychic power warp charge 1 and give it 3+ inv like Zoanthropes and it would be okay

>>51071702
The fact that they didn't do that in the first place is mind bogglingly idiotic, that or just malice

>>51071737
probably malice

just remember

205 points

Am I misremembering or could you take Warrior squads as HQ's? I have not played for several editions and the Prime seems very expensive, especially in small games.

>>51074405
both are awful choices.

>>51074433
Well I can't/won't take a Hive Tyrant for a 500 point Zone Mortalis game and I would rather have a Warrior squad than a single overpriced Warrior.

What would it take to fix the Maleceptor though?

ML 3 would be a nice start of course. Makes no sense for it to be on the same power level as a Zoanthrope when said Zoanthrope is far smaller and less resource-intensive.

Make its signature power not count against powers it can roll for.

Replace the ability to manifest the sniping power up to 3 times with "psychic recursion:" When it manifests a psychic power and it is not denied, it may immediately manifest that same power a second time, with the same degrees of success. So Warp Lance two targets, Catalyst two units, etc.

Another thing would be to give it a rule similar to Siphon Magic. Anytime a friendly non-Maleceptor Psyker manifests a power within 18" of the Maleceptor, it gains a free die it can use similar to Warp Charge.

All of these options would turn it into a real Psychic tech-piece.

>>51074405
Warriors also used to have eternal warrior....

>>51074731
yeah, when they didn't suck dick

>>51068430

thats actually pretty good for killing tau MC's thanks to their mediocre leadership

course that implies it would ever get close to a tau mc which is unfortunately not the case

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>>51074405
3rd and 4th edition. 5th moved Warriors from HQ/Elites to Troops and added the Prime as a replacement for the HQ broods.

>>51076595
>bs2

fuck i forgot about how horrid that is

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>>51076639
Well, that's what the enhanced senses were for. Don't want the extra BS, don't pay for it.

On that note
>Broodlord had BS3
>no guns

And thinking about it, the Prime was a replacement for the HQ Broodlord as well, since the point of that was to give the choice of a non-monstrous commander (which still hung out in a unit of its lesser buddies).

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>>51076251
it hurts because its true

>>51074664
120 points reduction

>>51076813
glorious fucking broodlord was such a monster back then

>>51076595
>all those choices

Those were the days.

>>51076952
Its exactly the same stats now though basically. Just cheaper in exchange for no longer having power weapons for hands.

>>51077215
>no longer having power weapons for hands

Yeah, back then you just threw a broodlord and his boys at a Terminator squad and laughed as he ripped those fuckers in half, now genestealers are garbo

>>51077215
>Just cheaper in exchange for no longer having power weapons for hands.
So now, the whole Space Hulk scenario cannot happen, because Jeanstealers can't rip apart termies?

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>>51077496
Could normal stealers ever do that? I thought they had to rely on rending.

>>51077530
Modern Rending doesn't exactly effect Armor save interaction either.

+1d3 strength only deals with toughness interaction.

having squad of warriors as HQ was one of my favourite things of nids back in 4th edition when i started. so fluffy

i will never forgive Cruddace for what he has done

>>51078403
What are you talking about? Rending makes attacks AP2 Auto-wound if it hits on a 6.

>>51078485
I was told otherwise by a friend who still plays, it seems they lied.

>>51078535
Yep. It's AP2 Wounds regardless of tougness if the To Hit roll is a 6.

>>51067975
That wouldn't do anything.

The entire codex is badly designed, almost every unit is overcosted or horribly gimped in some way or both.

>>51076639
That was before you had to play shooty Nids.
Fuckers could move up to 24" per round then.

>>51078767
i mean with the right setup, yeah

Those were the days, you gave the fuckers leaping and two pairs of scything talons, and threw them in with some hormagaunts, and laughed at a hilarious 5 attacks on the charge from the warriors

Its not like Age of the Emperor isn't going to happen given that Cadia just got blown up for no reason

>>51058107
>whi tf plays 2300 points ?
I made that list as a reply to someone who thought giving Tyranids 25% point reduction was the way to fix the army. That's basically a 1850 pts with the reduction and while that's not relevant here, it conveys the idea of the Flyrant spam pretty well

Anybody had any luck playing Tyranids in Zone Mortalis?

>>51078485
>>51078535
>>51078651

The fuck is worng with you guys.
'Rending' is an automatic Wound on a TO WOUND roll of 6. So it can wound everything like C'tan or Wraith Knights.

You're thinking of the proto-rending of the 4th edition Eldar Pathfinders.

>>51076588
Even disregarding the issue of ever getting into range while being made of trundling paper maché, any tau MC will happily tank those wounds between its invuln, FnP and wound count. And beyond that it has to invest functionally all of the armies warp charges to fire it off three times. Warp charges not spent on Psychic Scream, Onslaught or Catalyst. For that a tau player will gladly trade away a couple of wounds on a model that costs less than the Maleceptor.

>>51048383
This is always my counter argument to people who say "gw unfairly favours Chaos". Chaos have been shit for ages!

>>51087980
>205 points
>+4 save and a +5 invuln save

I will refuse to get over this

HEY ANYONE GOT WHAT THE RIPTIDES SAVES ARE

OH WAIT IT COMES WITH +2 AND A ++5 THAT CAN BE UPGRADED TO A ++3

AND ITS WAY BETTER AT DEATH

AND ITS CHEAPER IN POINTS

AND FASTER

GNHNGNHN

HNGGGGGGHGGHNGHNMK
KNP35QLERYHNIOJK'TED
IPKHNLQFCTRE BOHPM
NLAK,MFBZCRGH
k{<oSA%W

>>51087538
>on a TO WOUND roll of 6
Whoops! I'll admit I said that it was To Hit on memory, sorry.

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>>51088028
Don't forget, it can (and always will) also take FnP.

>>51048383
Perhaps now that GSC can take everything the guard can the guard might be updated, since the GSC renders them irrelevant.

>>51088028
There was a time when Tyranids had the best monsters
'Monstrous creature' made you think of a big gribbly beast, not a mech

>>51087980
Trying to change 40k's psychic power to be more like magic in fantasy (which they soon killed off anyway) was an awful idea.
The 50/50 nature of warp charges means you always have to throw at least twice its power level in dice for safe odds at success, ultimately meaning the whole new psychic phase sees less successful casts than when it was a smaller ordeal with models having personal pools that just needed a leadership test.

The ludicrous difference in power between the spell types also only became more emphasised. 3 warp charges to inflict a few wounds on something? Meanwhile the Guard player just gave 50 guardsmen twin-linked, or full BS overwatch, or his tank squadron a 4++ for less.

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>tyranid players

You don't see ork players crying like this.

>>51076588
>ld9 is mediocre leadership
What a time to be alive.

Sometimes I wonder how anybody can enjoy modern 40k. Fluff, art, rules, models, prices, game scale. The game being full of things that should be apocalypse only.

Its all shit compared to 3rd/4th edition.

>>51065869
Well if biotech ain't cutting it maybe they could start looting like their genestealer cousins or just start building actual mettalic non organic technology for their creatures to drive.

They have the brainpower and muscle to build basic tools, I'm sure thry could come up with something.

>>51065869
That is if there have been any advanced races in any of those 12 galaxies. You don't have to adapt to shit if the best they had to offer was some cavemen and whales.

>>51090052
Considering their biotech is good enough to be immune to lance fire after 3 days of fighting. I think it's up to the task...

>>51060659
This is the second time you've done this. You were even so uncreative enough to use the same image twice. What on earth do you really have against nids?

>>51068430
>up 5++ to 3++
>reduce WC on power to 1
>make power: ld on 3d6, take ap2 ound for every point failed by, ignores cover
>either make power hit automatically, or give it BS 4

did i fix it?

>>51090405
Source on that?

Just curious.

>>51091332
You just fixed the glaring problems any 40k player would see of when they see that unit.

>"Why does this have a worse save than zoanthropes?"
>"Why does this terrible power cost 2 warp charges?"
>"Why is psychic shooting such ass and require multiple rolls?"

Except you also forgot that this is a 205 point psyker that is only mastery level 2. It should be mastery level 3 for that point cost.

>>51091913
eh the ML2 isnt that a big deal, though it is strange when the beasti is ALL brain. a thought does occur though: as he is only ML 2 , he can only cast that power twice. how fucking dumb

>>51091913
You know if it was mastery 3 and knew spirit leech and warp blast instead of the dumb power it has it would legitimately be a useful, reasonably well costed unit.

>>51091982
and had a decent save, i mean jesus

>>51092010
I kind of assumed that everyone in the universe recognizes that it should have a 3+ save just like a zoanthrope, but I guess that doesn't go without saying since it actually has a 5+ for some inexplicable reason.

>>51092044
BECAUSE BIG THIS SHOULD HAVE A SHIT INVUN, DUH

>>51092091
JUST LIKE ALL THOSE MONSTROUS CREATURES IN OTHER ARMIES OH WAIT, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE PROPER INVULS

>>51092122
it really is disgusting how there is now only 1 nid monster than can have a 2+. and basically no invuns to speak of

>>51060659
fuck off, they're brilliant.

3rd edition Tyranid codex is fantastic.

Also found a good way to balance Nids for casual games. Halve the price for 2 troop, 2 elite, 2 heavy support choices. It means that the customer may have to buy more models, but it conjures up the idea of a swarm far more effectively

>>51074645
the only (competive) 500pt list available is pretty bad, anon

Deathleaper
Ripper Swarms with DS
Your choice of Elite squad (cheap)
Mawlok/Trygon

Yeah, fun game (for your opponent)

>>51089958
you don't see ork players full stop.

>>51090487
Not an argument.

>>51092396
Hey I'm an ork player!

>mfw I haven't played since 2012

>>51074405
>small games
just take 2 flyrants and 2 spores.

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>>51051379
Make venom cannons great again, return to 2nd edition values!

Str 8 AP3 Assault 4 blast

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>>51094163
Make barbed stanglers a 50% chance of having to make strength check or instant death with no saves of any kind.

in how many books are all the current Tyranids rules? 3?

>>51096674
yeah something like that

>>51063378
>the Eldar codex team
As crazy as Craftworld Eldar are you do have to admire the level of internal balance going on in that book. Sure, Scatter Laser jetbikes are a little nuts, but a lot of that comes down to what missions you play so they're not universally broken when you're not playing ITC rules. You can make a decent, fun, viable list out of basically everything in the Craftworld codex, and I don't think that's true of literally any other faction in the game. Everyone else has at least one lemon of a unit.

Well, I guess there's the Avatar. That thing still kind of sucks. Bizarre that they made the Wraithknight a GMC but not the Avatar of Khaine. Oh well.

>>51096947
>everyone else has at least one lemon of a unit

And then there's the tyranids, who have the vast majority of their units as lemons

>>51068240
Good job, mate.

>>51096966
Yup. It's sad that if 'nid players want to field a competitive army they basically have to buy a whole new one with Genestealer Cults. Hopefully GW actually gives Tyranids a real 7th edition re-write (and not just a formations/detachments update) to un-fuck this mess.

>>51097025
I mean its not gonna happen but when the only good units in our book at double devourer flyrants and the crones and harpies are ok, everything else we have is only good in comparison to the actual garbage we'd have to take otherwise

>>51097074
There's the Mawloc/Lictor gimmick too using Mucolids as troop tax, but yeah, that's about it. Even in that build it still comes down to using 3-6 Flyrants as the core of the army.

>>51097142
yeah but that gimmick still isn't that good, its more like 'well i guess this fills out the numbers'

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>>51088028
>Riptides more resilient than Great unclean ones

>>51097856
DON'T WORRY ANON I'VE BEEN ASSURED THAT ANYONE THAT COMPLAINS ABOUT RIPTIDES ARE JUST CRYING WAAC FAGGOTS UPSET THAT THEY GOT BTFO BY TAU