>wisdom is the primary ability score of the Cleric >WISDOM

It's only common sense to believe in a god when it gives you super powers for doing so.

>>51042229
>HERF DERF GOD GIVES FOLLOWERS SUPERPOWERS
Shut the fuck up. even NPC commoners have a diety, why the fuck dont they get spells? even level zero onions spells? Clerics are a goddamn trash class that doesnt belong in an otherwise perfect game. Separation of Church and State was a good thing and clerics should be a subset state of a character not a fucking profession. Common sense shouldnt affect your spellcasting either clerics should be INT based.

>>51042259
I'm a maltheistic gnostic atheist secular satanist, and your level of fedora tipping is making me cringe.
Maybe you should re-evaluate the nature of role-playing games, because I think you might be missing something fundamentally important.

>>51042309
>im retarded: the post

>>51042212
I'm wondering OP, where do you get your neckbraces?

Historically, priests and monks were commonly called in to deal with various "supernatural" problems that could be solved with some critical thinking.

In Scandinavia, many villagers living on the coast would find their meals by rappelling down and harvesting eggs from the nests of cliffside birds. On many occasions, an unfortunate egg-harvester's rope would break, and they would go plunging into the rocky waters below. Folklore says that trolls were living in caves on these very same cliffs, and would go out with sharp knives and cut the ropes themselves. As such, the villagers would send for a priest to banish the trolls and make the cliffs safe to work on.

Well, the priest would gladly do his job, singing hymns and spraying holy water on the rocks. And, if he decided to bring a chisel and dull the jagged rocks on the cliff's edge while he was doing it, more power to him. Oddly enough, it seems that cliffs that were attended to by priests never had problems with trolls again.

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>>51042212
It looks like you want to make a sort of anti religious statement here. Ok.

But you can in fact bring wisdom as a clerics stat in line with your philosophy.

Wisdom describes experience with human nature which is used by the malevolent power hungry clergy to shrewdly manipulate the masses into serving a false god for their own benefit. Clergy is a social position.

So you can have your church bad narrative and keep Wisdom. Keep your thinking flexible. Wouldn't want to blindly adhere to some dogmatism after all, eh?

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>>51042212
It's been a while, OP. Everything okay with you?

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>>51042212
>WHY IS THIS ALLOWED.
Because monks and priests were the first ones to liberate themselves from roasties and life as a wagecuck.

>>51042922
What are "roasties"? Is that a UK thing, like telly and footy?

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>>51042212
The gods are real in fantasy.

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>>51042212
>gods are real and bear real power in the setting
>it isn't good sense and judgment to get in good with them

>>51042212
>Intelligence is the primary score of the Wizard
>INTELLIGENCE
>PRIMARY SCORE OF THE WIZARD
>I N T E L L I G E N C E

>Intelligence: A measure of a character's rational processing and memory.
>rational
>WIZARD

Why is this allowed?

>>51043385
Because there's a stark difference between intelligence and wisdom, and wizards aren't necessarily and often aren't all that wise.

>>51042212
>The class other than paladin that is most strongly tied to the moral issues reflected by an alignment system.
>Shouldn't be sensible and have a strong sense of judgment.

Pick one.

>>51042212
worshiping and following a god's teachings is only unwise if that god isn't real

in the universes RPG Clerics exist in the gods are very much real
therefore
not unwise to worship these very powerful beings

>>51042259
Commoners devote their lives to growing turnips not spreading their gods teachings and fighting its enemies. No god cares about turnips.

>>51043942
Except a god of agriculture, but just being a farmer only gets you so much favor.

>>51043942

>no god cares about turnips

>t. an abomination unto Nuggan

>>51042259
In a setting where priests have holy power, a deity's presence and influence are observable phenomena that can be replicated. You can speak to your god and even ascend to divinity yourself.

Common sense checks out. Hang up that fedora.

>>51044980
I thought turnips were one of the abominations? Wouldn't Nuggan be a-ok with hating turnips?

>>51043042
It's an /r9k/ (I think) term for a female human, because the outer lips of some women's vaginas vaguely resemble roast beef.

Basically when you see someone posting it, you can assume that they blame women for realizing they're a creepy loser.

Here come the (you)s

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>>51045286
Obviously, you're wrong. It's not a term for women in general, but women with an "outie" vagina (one where the labiae minor are larger than the labiae maior, resulting in "beef curtains" rather than a somewhat aesthetic, tucked-in look). The belief (which I cannot confirm, I'm no gynaecologist) is that these "roastie" vaginas are the result of promiscuity, while a less used vagina remains more 'tucked in'.

The biological truth doesn't even matter at this point, it's a term more or less on par with "slut", or perhaps the female equivalent of "limp dick".

>>51042259
The same reason most priests don't, they are not the chosen of said god.

Look buddy, we get it, you don't believe in jebus. Good for you. In D&D the gods are real, their miracles (cleric/paladin spells) too numerous to count, and they occasionally physically appear and wreck and/or fix shit in front of a world full of witnesses.

>>51045286
>they blame women for realizing they're a creepy loser.
This line made me crack up. Here, have a (you).

>>51042212
>okay, I want super powers but I wasn't born with them. I can either
>study for a decade or more till I can use cantrips
>be a tree fucker and live outside the comforts of civilization
>work for the church

I dunno, you tell me.

>>51045436
Obviously, you don't know what you're talking about since it gets used for women regardless of if it's known they have long lips.
Sure it may have started with more specific meaning but the common usage has evolved to just be a meme buzzword equivalent to "bitches reeeee!"

>>51045777
Honestly the fact Druids use Wisdom makes less fucking sense than this guys triggered fedora tipping.

>>51047672
That much I agree with, though I don't know how much of it is my personal biases seeping through.

>>51043385
>Strength is the primary score of the Barbarian
>STRENGTH
>PRIMARY SCORE OF THE BARBARIAN
>S T R E N G T H

>Strength: A measure of a character's physical prowless and ability.
>ability
>BARBARIAN

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>>51047672
I think it's the old man of the woods and magic hippie don't fit into the cleric class and no other mental stat makes sense.

>>51042212
Because if they had low wis, they'd turn atheist.

This is a shitty bait thread.

>X is the primary ability score of [class]
Don't play shit systems?

>>51049414
furries get out

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>>51042212

Why can't anyone be a cleric?

>>51043942
>look at this man
>not knowing the glory of Bogrump

>>51042212
When a pantheon of deities ACTUALLY EXIST in a setting, grant powers to their faithful servants, and actively fuck with mortals on a daily basis, you're goddamned right Wisdom becomes a primary ability for the clergy.

On a side note, Intelligence is knowing fire is hot, that it's a chemical reaction, and that things like petroleum and dry wood and vegetation are highly flammable. Wisdom tells you not to stick your hand in it.

>>51049714
Anyone can. But it usually takes dedication and a strict following of that deity's moral code.

>>51049784
I let all NPCs and players with an established faith in a diety have two level 0 cleric spells per day, based around whatever they believe in. It's only when you get serious and become a full fledged cleric do you get access to more serious boons of your faith.

>>51049714
sometimes only the chosen of a god can become a full on spellcasting cleric. really, they should be called prophets, that is basically what they are. Talking to god, getting god to kill non-believers and evil ones with magic, doing holy quests, etc.

>>51049857
keep in mind this is only in certain settings though, I'm just doing what I like to use.

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>He doesn't fold the Cleric and Wizard classes together
>He doesn't let the Wizard/Cleric class combo learn their spells from deities, from ancient secrets, a combination of the two
>He doesn't make Int the primary spellcasting stat for learning spells and crafting items BUT controlling magic uses WIS
>He doesn't have rules that encourage the fluff of a edgy Sorcerer accidentally releasing a demon because High Int/Low Wis and then the village mystic controlling and banishing it because of his high Wisdom

>This is still something you haven't done
>2017

>>51049857
>>51049873
>tfw ur god wakes u up in the middle of the night
>tfw he tells u he's gonna make u wreck the shit out of subhuman infidel scum
>tfw he tells you his master plan of raining fire down and then earthquaking the shit out of them
>tfw u cant go to sleep that night cuz ur too excited now
>tfw he gets mad when u come downstairs while he's tryin to watch netflix with his girl on the couch

>>51049905
anime please go.

better scenario:
>play a grizzled war veteran who has to hunt bears on the mountain
>find an ancient dwarven stronghold
>battles an exiled demon released by digging too deep using throwing axes, holy water flasks and knee high walls for cover to regenerate life
>multiplayer mode lets you fight clones of yourself in deathmatch or capture the flag modes

>>51049302
is this shit some kind of meme or not?

>>51049958
>is this shit some kind of meme or not?
>SHIT
>SOME KIND OF MEME
>S H I T

>Shit: Excrement from the body; unwanted waste.
>unwanted waste
>(YOU)

>>51042212
Pasta doesn't get better with age (or autism), you know.

>>51042212
OP is a faggot.

Now that's out of the way I do think the distinction between wisdom and intelligent is pretty arbitrary in d20.

Most the other ability as well as being fairly self-explanatory also inform other derived stats, like hit points or carry limit, the choice between intelligence and wisdom seems to be just choice between one spell list or the other.

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>>51042212
Because in most communities until around the 1950s, clergymen were generally expected to be the type of people who were good at listening to people's problems, and giving them insightful aid and advice, especially since psychology wasn't much of a thing yet. Further, to be a theologian often requires a great ammo t of time spe t dedicated to contemplation and philosophical thought on the nature of what they believe and how it applies to life and living.

So in other words, clerics are expected to be part theological philosopher, and part community moral/spiritual/psychological leader and guide, hence why they would have a need for high Wis, and be given abilities based on both their divine connection and theological understanding, since their god would know that they would be wise enough to use the power responsibly

Then again this would have been obvious if you hadn't had your fedora screwed on so tightly

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>>51042212
>>51042212
Of course clerics have high wisdom OP, they're the most OP class in the game.

If they won't wise they will be playing bards or something

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>>51042212

>>51042885
Holy shit, this is great!

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>>51042212
I get it. It's a Friday, but is /tg/ so starved for content we now entertain this shit?

>Old pasta thread
>Replies keep pilling up rather than just hiding the thread
And the worst part is that I'm part-taking in this

>>51047672
It's because folkloric druids were cunning and wise men who solved problems using herbal remedies (the effects of which they learned through deduction and experience) and effective, practical solutions.

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>>51042259
>even level zero onions spells

An onion spell seems like it'd belong to a druid, not a cleric.

>>51042212
the real question is why would a cleric use wisdom when being a wizard is objectively the best class

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Well hold on a second, is it possible to make a cleric that could be considered slow on the uptake? Not necessarily "no common sense," but rather that he's not able to put two and two together as fast as others. (Not arguing whether he CAN put two and two together, that's INT.)

CASE IN POINT, I'm trying to figure out how to create a Pathfinder !PETA that focuses on rare magical animals. The members believe that dragons, centaurs, merfolk, insert-species-here are endangered and need saving (they're not; they either just don't populate that fast or look endangered because they tend to stay secluded.) On top of that, they really don't know what much about these creatures in general, and have the tendancy to mistake one creature for another (Psudeodragons tend to be targeted more often than real dragons.) Still, that's no reason to stop doing the Right Thing for these creatures...

I'm looking at making each member a CN Rogue/Cleric hybrid (A level of Cleric for every three levels of Rogue) so they can have Animal and Liberation domain, though they tend to rely on Rogue abilities to do what they want. My problem is reasoning the Cleric levels beyond that, since this concept feels like they just don't have ANY logical thinking, not just lack of intelligence.

>>51042259
The average worshiper gets their blessings in the form of a cleric showing up and blessing their fields to give a good harvest.

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>>51042212

>>51042212
A cleric perceives the fundamental relationships between people and the Gods, the basis of all things in the universe. They seek to place themselves within this network of relationships for the good of all, acting as intermediaries between the divine and the mortal. They are wise, seeing to work with the order of things for the good of the many.

A wizard, on the other hand, thinks he understands, and indeed has some grasps of the mechanisms of the universe and its relationships. Through hard study and experimentation she picks up tiny motes of the power that comes to the Gods naturally, and seeks to distort the world around him to suit his purposes, stealing power and even whole organisms from other dimensions for any number of reasons, most commonly and bizzarely in order to seek more knowledge, in order to achieve more power in order to seek more knowledge, ect. The phrase "Wizards; no sense of right and wrong" is more common than "Clerics; no sense of right or wrong" because Clerics moniter themselves with creeds and a series of relationships and accountabilities to mortals and the divine, whereas Wizards are likely to seek out solitude in order to get away with their violations of the order of the universe.

>>51050361
it's partaking, fyi

>>51042212
You realize your argument is null and void in settings where gods actively shape events and give people magic powers, including a spell that lets you talk directly with them and play 20 questions, right? This isn't like the real world where the only thing they're going off of is blind faith and an ancient book that's been retranslated, rewritten, and reinterpreted countless times.

>>51047347
That's literally what he fucking said.
It's just a stand in for slut now.

What would be the primary stat of a shitposter class?

>>51043385
>>51043641
Technically, the term "wizard" comes from the word "wise" (wise-ard), so there's kind of a point to complaining about D&D Wizards not running off Wisdom.

That said, the kinds of people that were originally referred to as "wizards" barely resemble the modern D&D Wizard so it's relatively acceptable to have them run off a different stat.

>>51047347
The point is saying that *dislikedbwoman* is a slut with a pussy that has been gaped out by their constant slutting

>>51050739
Okay having PETMA (People for Ethical Treatment of Magical Animals) as villains in your campaign sounds hilarious. Maybe they protest regularly in front of the adventurer's guild, and need rescuing after trying to raid a local dungeon in order to set free the dragon living in there?

>>51042259
Well, you need WIS to bargain those powers out of your god. Pray hard enough to get powers (if it's possible) or don't give a shit about gods at all - it's common sense.

>>51049948
Can I buy this game somewhere?

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>>51042259
so you're saying the smartest and most logical casters should be religious?
because all that INT means they understand that worshipping gods is the correct choice.

>>51042259
Are you Canadian?

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>>51042259
Did you get molested by a priest when you were a kid?

fucking religious nutjob trump supporters need to gtfo

>>51045436
No, that sort of thing was in fact on an old witch hunter's sign what a woman slept with the devil whose gigantic dick formed her cooch thusly.

>>51051978
Autism

>someone points out religion is illogical
>comments full of fedora memes

holy shit you people need to grow out of having an imaginary friend

I don't play any pen and paper games, but wouldn't it make more sense to have a Faith stat for clerics, rather than using wisdom?

>>51052284
>PETMA
>need rescuing after trying to raid a local dungeon

So, are we supposed to rescue the monsters or what? Because otherwise the situation seems self-solving.

>>51053326
Religion may not be logical, but they do serve purposes. The better ones even explain what the purpose is. The best ones don't concern themselves with gods and afterlives.

>>51053326
>someone points out religion is illogical in a fictional setting where gods' existence can be proven and they intervene in the material world on a daily basis
Well, the idea of money and/or ownership is illogical too. I mean, what shit setting would seriously believe partitioning common land for private use? Or owning an idea? I mean, how retarded would that be? And it gets worse, I've heard of a setting that translates *all* worth into an arbitrary scale based on relatively-useless metals. Just look at it, someone must've been either really bored or on drugs to come up with it.

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>>51042212
>>51042259
I just got my shit kicked in by an evil cleric and now i'm pissy: the post

>>51042212
Look at this unenlightened goblin.
>>>/r/atheism

>>51050139
Best post.
/thread

>>51053326
Not in a setting where you have proof that gods exists.

>>51049454
you get out

>>51042259
You're off your chump

>you will never know the feeling of being as butthurt as OP

>>51053727
When I was trolling some forum in 2014, I was delighted by every bit of attention, so I guess OP has an evil giggle even at fedora pics

>>51053698
no u

I wonder who could be behind this thread...

to anyone that replied to >>51042259 please take your religious nonsense to /pol/ or /trash thanks because in reality god doesnt exist and fantasy games are fucking retarded for trying to encapsulate semi-realism but bringing this trash into it.

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>>51053857

>>51042309
>maltheistic gnostic atheist secular satanist
This is not a valid combination, start over from the beginning.

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>>51053857
Here, have a /his/ meme.

>>51053857
>all religions are judgmentAL and dogmatic
>this is the only truth and you shall be burned at the stake for thinking otherwise
EMPRAH?

>>51047672
Wisdom is instinct and raw cunning.

>>51053880
>>51053907
could i have some more? i need (you)s desparately to fill this void in my heart after waking up to find my dog dead at the foot of my bed after sixteen years.

>bitching about clerics
>when wizards exist

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>>51053857

>>51054049
>projecting: the image
You're gay

>>51054066
I may be gay but at least I'm not a faggot.

>>51054077
FUCK YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU STUPID LITTLE SHITHEAD

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>>51053925
That kind of sucks. Have another (you).

>>51042212
>world with magic and God's everywhere
>not being religious
Are you fucking retarded?

>>51042798
Please, tell me this is true. Is so wonderful and Terry Pratchett-esque that I would love it to be true.

I believe I'm probably preaching to the choir here (ahem), but "Wisdom" has always been a fucking meaningless word for a tabletop RPG stat.

Being self-aware, down to earth and full of common sense is part of a character's personality. It only has impact on what decisions they choose to make, which means it's worthless measuring it on PCs (because players make the decisions themselves) and could be reduced to a "character trait" mention on NPCs.

So in my games I've basically renamed the stat "Senses", which covers sight, hearing, smell, orientation and instinct, including "gut feelings".

To handle God-bestowed powers when conflict or dire situations are involved, I use a special "Resolve" resource that keeps track of a character's faith in their own religion. That's the same resource I use for morale and willpower (vs. mind control for example).

After all, a Cleric or Paladin losing faith in their divinity is also likely to lose faith in themselves, and the other way around ("I am not worthy").

>>51042212
Wisdom is also used to measure willpower which you need a lot of as a cleric.

also you're a faggot op

>>51053265
Does Satan just go around ruining women with his monstercock? I feel like that premise should feature more in pornography.

>>51042212
Actually, Wisdom measures your:
>Knowledge AKA Spiritual text-based upbringing, as churches brought reading and writing, via the libraries offered in monasteries
>Discipline taught by elders and the sharing of their own wisdom in service to their god
>Whether or not you fall unconscious or go insane from it hitting 0

You're being pretty fedora OP, not gonna lie.

The gods are an integral part of D&D and have a (questionable) influence over the setting, but they are there.

I could explain to you how they're chaotic energy forms born from the Astral sea as a result of the Great old ones passing through back just before Ahriman and Jazirian made Good Evil, Law and Chaos, and were originally mirror to their forefathers, and how they were born as a response to the massive outcry from mortal races enslaved by Old Ones (Lizardfolk) Aboleths and other variant abberations/pre deity races because they couldn't handle the horrors of beyond space time, and were then liberated from this and revered, slowly, over time becoming less and less horrible, harsh beings of bow or smite, (Save for Ghaunduar and Tharizdun), and a whole lot else but you really seem to lack the WIS to handle such revelations.

Now yes, they do lie to their servants and are hyper-intelligent, allowing them to literally come up with shit that already exists, but to them it seems like they invented it "Biggest example of this is how the Pact primeval went down." and are literally slightly removed from the alignment system shifting them. To list what they've gotte naway with
>Everything that faggot one eyed elf god did in the canon forgotten realms comics
>That one deity who turned one of his followers into a split personality Ettin that slaughtered multiple people just to get him to come to terms with a bad part of his personality when he hadn't done anything wrong aside from that, and still ti was all somehow the followers fault and the god got away with mass slaughter
>Pelor
>Garl Glittergold

>>51054360
Then there's the fact that Deity Domains are actually Claimed profiles of conceptual reality they can manipulate and control, and by that I mean horribly rape, fuck up and leave in a messed up state at their or the whims of their followers which have horrible consequences if left in place.

You know why tsunami's and earthquakes hit when certain gods with those domains die? It's not because the god of these (domains) died, it's because the moment they did, they lost control of their domain, and any changes in it, ended up thus reverted to their natural non Deity fuckery Laws. So for example, a god holding back the tide? mass Tsunami, millions dead. A god stop a volcano? island volcano was on, explodes, mass tsunamis, earthquakes, millions dead, and so on, it get's even more complex with make-believe domains which break Base law too, in effect, gods aren't all that in control, but that won't stop them from smiting, causing horrible affliction, having your ass purged, cursing you, or throwing you to another plane, they are vengeful babymen that will go out of your way to fuck you over, and a Good number of vestiges, and one or two elder evils were the result of the deities shilling their hold over their material worshipers loud and clear.

But, unfortunately, they're needed, so until mass sanctions are placed on Domains that have catastrophic post deity death throws, deities are made subject to alignment shifts like everyone else, a number of celestial beings pardoned, The Ban on the unborn lifted, then we're stuck with ambitious deity cheating fucks like Grey Paladins and Paladins of tyranny and that fucking Snake the Yuan-ti Like.

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>>51054175
Supposedly, witches get their power from sleeping with satan or one of his underling demons, the incubus. The original incubus was the inspiration for the genderfluid legend of today - as succubus, they seduce a male, steal his semen and become incubus, then they rape a female, dispense their demon-tainted semen into her and become succubus again. Nowadays the succubus myth got sexified and they look more like pic related.

Devil rape is semi-prolific in Japan, at least in the cartoony porn.

>>51054457
In D&D, Witches and Warlocks used to be of the same coin in I think, Ravenloft, then Warlocks were made slightly different in 3.5, and Witches were Dread Witches or that Other sort of Witch. Hags were their own thing I think.

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>>51052284
Don't know about protesting the adventurer's guild, though to be fair I never considered it. I've considered PETMA as being doers; they're not against preaching their mission but are usually too focused on it to preach it. Maybe a crier in some of the town squares at least?

I don't think of them as villains in the classical sense. They can be antagonists quite often, but they are not TRYING to cause harm. They are more often than not catalysts to a real problem.

They would be the kind of group that tries to 'save' a gelatinous cube from the sewers of an 'unkind' city who is 'using it to eat their waste, look how sad it is.' In reality it hasn't really cared, and has actually been keeping the city clean. No one in the city, even the royalty, actually know that it is living in the sewers, and no one even thought of putting a cube in the sewers in the first place.

A party of PETMA members would guide it out of the sewers (read: tied some cow meat to a member as a lure and let it chase him out), point to the city gates (they tied a cow to a post just outside the city gates to coax it further; cows are neither magical nor rare) and tell it to 'be free.' Imagine their surprise where it eats the cow, then eats their lure, then spins back into the city streets and start eating everything in sight. There may be a few members of that party who would see this as a comeuppance and would be inclined to sit back and watch, but as the cube clears out the third house the desire to get it out of the city ASAP becomes unanimous.

>>51042259
>Shut the fuck up. even NPC commoners have a diety, why the fuck dont they get spells?
Because of their low Wisdom.

>>51042212
Serious answer: Because DnD lacks a "Faith" stat. Even more serious answer: Because the system of "core stats" DnD and the like use is very much obsolete and the cracks have been showing for at least a decade now.

>>51053061
Are you an autist?

>playing D&D

>>51045436
I wonder if any women are ignorant enough to think a dude's dick gets longer every time he has sex.

>>51057143
>Bitching about people playing D&D

>>51057399
>bitching about people bitching about people playing D&D

>>51057660
>bitching about people bitching about people bitching about people playing D&D

>>51042212
What's the problem? Someone believing in a religion having wisdom as a main stat? You realize that the gods are actually real and are giving the clerics their power right?

>>51042259
>in an otherwise perfect game.
>D&D
>otherwise perfect game

LOL, I tell you. LOL!

>>51057660
>bitching about people bitching about people bitching about people bitching about people playing D&D

>>51057851
see
>>51042885

File: d-d-internet-lingo-stats-strength-do-you-even-lift-brop-2524268.png (83KB, 500x662px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 500x662px

>>51042885
OP was waiting for a ripe moment to bait newfags and searchfags instead of pumping it out. A logical shitposting tactic, if he had taken in the factor of oldfags.

>>51049948
combine this with metal-railgun-repeating-crossbows-with-chainsaw-bayonets and this is god tier fluff

>>51058883
>tfw ur best friend drives a wagon full of gunpowder into a burning tower to save you from eldrich abominations

>>51056302
The same way INT should be Knowledge or some shit?

>>51042798
>>51054136

Sometimes its true. Sometimes its not.

>>51057266
Oh please, don't pretend women are better. They believe the dumbest shit, like how foot size correlates to dick size (I guess it kind of does, but only in the sense that big people have big everything's) or that some weird finger comparison thing dictates a guy's dick size.

>>51042259
Gr8 b8 m8

>>51045505
>>51045777

You know, all the fedora-tipping aside, I suppose the thing that doesn't appeal about Clerics is that ultimately it's not really your power.

For instance, if you're a Wizard or a Sorcerer, that power is yours. You have no real constraints on it, and no-one can ever take your power away. But as a Cleric, you're borrowing power from God. God might give you a lot of leeway, but it's still HIS power - If he ever wants to revoke it, he's leaving you high and dry.

Like, a Cleric can never develop his own source of power. His patron is loaning out his thunderbolts for his best buddy to use. Meanwhile, the Sorcerer's lightning bolts are entirely his own.

>>51064635
>His patron is loaning out his thunderbolts for his best buddy to use
This is the same as with Warlocks.

>>51042212
oh this discussion will be enlightening

>>51053857
>semi realism

> fantasy
> magic
> orcs
> dragons

No you are the retard

>>51064635
It's weird though if a level, say, fifteen cleric converts to another faith he's still a level fifteen cleric who's just as powerful as he was under his former boss.

>>51064635

That right there is the reason those clerics are clerics, because they're okay with said power being on loan. If they weren't, they'd be some other class. Presumably, they'd never have to worry about their god revoking their power because nine times out of ten they're on the same page as far as outlook.

>>51064958

I assume it's because gaining levels as a Cleric means you can channel more and more of a God's power. You still need a God to pass the power through you, but you have more capacity.

And Gods want to affect the mortal world more than anything.

>>51053857
You will burn in hell!

File: 1482985981731.png (210KB, 675x1500px) Image search: [Google]

210KB, 675x1500px

>>51064958
>It's weird though if a level, say, fifteen cleric converts to another faith he's still a level fifteen cleric who's just as powerful as he was under his former boss.

If I had a PC voluntarily switch gods, I would probably houserule that they lose all their spells but keep their HP, skills, etc. and start regaining spells as if they're level 1. So at level 16 they would count as a level 2 cleric, etc.

Pic unrelated, obviously.

>>51042212
makes more sense, than dexterity for range combat

25 year pastor/preacher here, 35year gamer.

Wisdom, is knowing why some is lying to you. Not just knowing when someone is lying to you.

Wisdom is the difference of why and when.

For the atheist friends here, i have no problem in rationalization of a physical interpretati on of the universe. Evidence here is the what. Belief answers why.

If wisdom is the difference between the what and the why, then i will simply say that God, whom I believe in, has given me my why.

You may a why as well, and then you have to aske ethe question, what was the origin on your why? Is it the universe telling you, your desires, your neurons?
We both have belief, (or not if you prefer0 but ask yourself, "what part of the unseen universe did your beliefs come from?

>>51042212
Because in the D&D world, Gods literally exist and interact with mortals all the time, so believing in them IS common sense.

The ones with above average common sense realize how powerful being a CoDzilla is and dedicate their life to it.

>>51053857
What's wonderful is that this is just your opinion, and cannot legitimize it no matter how hard you try, because even if you somehow prove a Christian god doesn't exist, now you have the Hindu God and the Greek Gods to disprove, and so on and so forth.

And no, you are the retard for thinking that more than .0027382% of tabletop rpgs even grasp at realism in a world with dwarves, elves made for raping , and a myriad of different humanoid species, and that's not even scratching the beastiary.

/pol/ seems like a nice place for you, frankly.
Or tumblr.
You're quite adept at sticking your head up your ass and pretending like your shitty opinions are the """correct""" ones.

>>51049958
It might be becoming one as we speak. But probably not.