/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

I've never had a character get possessed, oddly enough. Frenzy on one, Death Rage on another, but never out and out possessed.

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Hey folks, not a regular here, so pardon me if what I'm about to ask sounds stupid.

Does anyone here know if I could possibly find a shop or something of the sort in the Balkans where I could buy old Vampire the Masquerade books, including the 20th Anniversary for Masquerade and Dark Ages?

>>51020348
All the mayor old VtM books have been sold out for years, but most tabletop-gaming-stores carry the anniversary edition and its supplements. Just figure out were the nearest store is.

>>51020131
>WoD LARP.jpg

>>51020348
>pardon me if what I'm about to ask sounds stupid.

There are no stupid questions, only Aspel's stupid shit.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/1/White-Wolf

>>51020348
>in the Balkans

What, can't you order shit on the internet? Do Serbian warlords or whatever steal your mail shipments?

>>51020600
>Aspel's stupid shit.
don't call him out either, please

>>51020616

I can order stuff, of course.

The problem is that everything over the value of 50 euros gets taxed by some RNG faggot.

No, seriously. One time you can get taxed only 5-10 euros. Another time, you might be paying the price of the article you ordered.

There is no rhyme or reason to this. Only corruption and nepotism.

>>51020616

>A Serbian Warlord sits on a throne made entirely of copies of V20.

>>51020618
Like the OP did? This thread is already off to a good start...

>>51020131
>Has your character ever been possessed?
No, but a character of mine did get diablerized and then, quite a few sessions later, when yet another of my characters got diablerized by the same vamp, the first one took over their brain.

Whats the best Shadow name if I want to specialize in plants/animals and nature spirits?

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Stat me, I'm a mage.

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>>51020348
>VtM

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>>51021046

Yes, what about it? I enjoy Masquerade and Dark Ages more over Requiem in terms of fluff. Rules can be changed easily. I don't begrudge anyone playing or preferring Requiem, it's just not my thing.

>>51021025
The Hippie Druid

Ok Im curious about this, A archmage vs a old planeswalker, who would win? lets assume they are each using different magic systems .

>>51021025
>Greenpeace Artemis
>Greenpeace Demeter
>Greenpeace Dionysus

>>51021046
Can you stop that you fucking idiot

>>51021135
since old planeswalkers always had the power of plot and could do anything the plot demanded from them, the archmage, since he rewrites the plot to suit his whims and extinguishes their Spark

>>51021025
Druid Minimus Maximus

So as far as one shot antagonists go in nwod lore how does a self made gangrel by way of a rogue Hunter kidnapping and torturing a bunch of vampires and performing a blood transfusion on himself sound for weird shit to throw at hunter players

>>51021303
Sure. Though I think an actual Clan is unnecessary. Just have him be someone who made himself into a vampire.

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>>51021046
I made this specially for you, faggot

>>51021027
Cult of Ecstasy, specialising in Matter.

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>>51021451
>saved

>>51020348
You might have to pop on a train and head west for a little shopping, my slavic friend.

>>51021521

Damn. I was hoping I might find something in Slovenia or Hungary or even Croatia, so I wouldn't have to go too far.

>>51021025
Depends... Do you tend to them? Hunt them? Weaponize them?

Does anyone know of a good source for Kiasyd portraits? All that I've found are bad dievantart photoshops

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Me again guys, with another question.

Please don't misunderstand this as a hostile question or anything of the sort. I'm genuinely curious.

What exactly are the plots in Vampire the Requiem campaigns you play? I'm not asking for all the details, just... what drives your characters to play? What exactly hooks you to play on?

I get that some folks got tired of the "THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH!" from Masquerade, as it can get a bit tiresome what with it looming in the background, but without the Jyhad, without the Elders, the Camarilla, the Sabbat and the Antediluvians, what usually looms in the background of your campaigns?

>>51023817
Check out Reap the Whirlwind.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/201127/Reap-the-Whirlwind-Revised-VtR-2e
There's also the really early version that was a 2e spoiler. Looks like they took it down, but here's a link https://a.pomf.cat/trdkcq.pdf

>>51023817
Why do you need something looming? You're already dead

>>51024037

Haha, I wasn't looking for plothooks for myself, just in general wonder about what people from here played in the past, what kind of campaigns they participated in and so on.

>>51024049

You know what I mean. A bigger picture, some form of overreaching plot.

I recall spirit magic being able to awaken the spirits of equipment back in 1e giving bonus or penalties to the appropriate roll. Is this still a thing in 2e?

And on a related note is the 'coaxing the spirit' spell as amazing of a utility spell as I'm thinking? (e.g. coax a lock to open, a fire to spread, a journey to speed up?)

>>51023817
>hout the Jyhad, without the Elders, the Camarilla, the Sabbat and the Antediluvians, what usually looms in the background of your campaigns?

"So you are inmortal, now what?" thats pretty much how i run plots.

>>51020131
Hello everyone. New friend here.

I want to get into this world of Darkness setting. My only familiarity with it of course being the videogame. What books and or necessary materials do I need to get into it?

(My only table top experience is DnD 5e.) Thank you!

>>51025227
VtM 20 edition and a shitload of D10 dices should be enough for a first game.

>>51023817
>What exactly are the plots in Vampire the Requiem campaigns you play?

There is no plot, that's why it's the worst

So I'm sure this question is asked to death, but do crossover games work?

So games with Hunters, Changelings, Geists and Demons in, for example? (just picked a random selection, could be anything) I know the rules are more modular for CoD than oWoD, but I don't know if thematically and mechanically they work.

Or, alternatively, games that turn into something else? Starting as humans from the base book/children from Innocents and then having the characters turn into Geists/Hunters/Slashers/Changelings/Vampires/etc?

Or does that just not work?

>>51025293
Thank you very much anon.

I won't lie, I'm not really a big fan of modern settings, just the clans. What is this "Dark ages" I hear mentioned sometimes? It's just the medieval version correct? Is that good to get as well or no?

>>51025408
It's basically masquerade but in the middle ages, yes. There's also a 20th anniversary version of it, but I don't know if it's good or not, just massive. Haven't checked it yet.

>>51025397
The second option sounds interesting.

>>51025408
>>51025446

Masquerade 20th Anniversary edition has terrible, terrible art inside it.

How the fuck did they think that shit was appropriate?

So, I've been out of the loop for about a year. Have there been any new nWoD (or CofD) books released since Mage 2E?

>>51025397
Crossover games can work, but it can be tricky getting everything to play nice. It's not just a matter of balancing power between lower and higher power splats, but also finding overlap between the themes of the games and in-character reasons for cooperation. Take extra time with your group and go over everyone's expectations, and you should be ok.

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Anyone here ever been to a LARP game of WoD?

>look up the 20th Anniversary Dark Ages on ebay
>$275 is the lowest it gets and it's from the US

Jesus fucking Christ.

>>51025579
Only Promethean 2e, Secrets of the Covenants and Hurt Locker. There may have been a couple of fiction books as well.

>>51025592
We have a tripfag based around this

>>51025687
Meant to quote >>51025552

>>51025330
There's the PC's personal plots. Which can be anything. Usually in my groups it amounts to playing vampire Mob boss.

>>51025791

Yeah, that's what I was asking about.

What propels the story? What makes the players actually want to play the damn thing?

>>51025803
Carrot and stick. Talk to your players about what their ideal plans are for their characters (even if it's only at the base level of spending XP). Have the story be about them getting to that point, and at every twist and turn of their paths give them a thorough beating.

>>51025397
>>51025460
I did the Innocents game where they had they could get fukt by the mystery they were investigating and become changelings or not get screwed and become hunters looking for their missing friends. The hunters got some extra sessions involving the fetches (which the changeling players played while their characters were getting mindfucked by the fae) and the extra xp was used to bring up to somewhat equal playing level with the changelings. The hunters ended up more like magical girls after all those contracts though, including two hunters who traded their masculinity (which worked retroactively) for the ability to tell whos supernatural with a glance, including the ability to contest anything that hides the true form.
It was an interesting dynamic though. Three players that were abused, mindfucked, depressed, and powerful, and three players that were forcing the first three to get over themselves or risk losing the last 'normal' thing in their lives.

http://theonyxpath.com/the-long-solo-vampire-the-requiem/

Here's a preview of A Thousand Years of Night.

>>51025996
If anyone is interested I'm also the person running the vampire slayers thing a few threads back. After a dramatic session involving a failed confrontation of the vampires, all the slayers were mindfucked by dominate and can't actually do shit to the vampires directly, while the already mindfucked were ghouled. The vampires have started using them as cheap labor to expand the cult's underground haven and now things are like a game of dungeon keeper. Lots of OOC betrayal happened. I'd actually recommend this kind of play if you want to really invest people in a location though.

Any one of you fuckboys fellating that dipshit autist know of the Livian Heresy is still canon?

>>51025510
Have you seen the Exalted book? Onyx Path has given up on art in general. Nothing but traces and poser art from now on.

>>51026667
If you want it to be, sure.

>>51026685

How come the 20th Dark Ages had decent art inside it then?

>>51025510
Literally the only bad thing was the art, the rest is more or less just a more complete revised 3rd edition. Why would he have a thousand books when he can have one?

>>51026724
Because most of it is reused. While the rest is poser art shit.

Is the Hurt Locker in the mega? I can't find it. Does anyone have a link if it isn't?

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>>51026814

I don't think this art was in the old version of Dark Ages.

>>51027279
It's one of the links in OP. Lrn2Read

>>51025592
I am the main narrator in an awakening LARP in my city and I also have characters in many of the other larps, requiem, ascencion, changeling lost and dreaming.

"You have called me the Sacrificial King, and I guess I just have to live with
that. It’s not actually a bad thing for someone who died male to submit sometimes."

Real fucking smooth Onyx Path.

>>51028112
Oh boy, whats this from? The new mummy book?

>>51028129
Secrets of the Covenants.

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And now its about killing whites and worshiping the god "Shitfuck".

Authors: Rose Bailey, Benjamin Baugh, Joshua Alan
Doetsch, Liz Grushcow, David A Hill Jr, Steffie de Vaan, Eddy
Webb, Filamena Young

Real fucking quality job guys, really. One page its the repeated castration and murder of a male feminist whom is perfectly happy with this the next its both white genocide and Acolytes using Atheism+ tactics.

Real fucking tasteful and thought out book that really did need the extra years to be put together with less then 2 pages of actual new mechanics or rules added. Worth its weight in gold.

>>51028305
> And now its about killing whites and worshiping the god "Shitfuck".

Weren't the Acolytes always a wet dream for feminists and similar retarded scum? Even Belial's Brood has more appeal

>>51028365
>Weren't the Acolytes always a wet dream for feminists and similar retarded scum?

Its honestly the difference between sane feminists and tumblr feminists. 1e Crones were cool as fuck and had minimal nonsense since the books focused more on the fact that they are pagan vampire wizards instead of championing radical social politics in tableto rulebooks.

This book is pure shit, anything useful I could find like 2 years ago from the sneak peek. The Invictus, Lancea and Ordo (jesus christ I still suffer from the core 2e book butchering their style) had better be good or I'm asking for a refund.

Fucking SECRETS AND SORCERIES AND MERITS book with barely anything added and copy pasted template merits...

>>51028305
>>51028492
Good. I love male tears and hope Onyx Path continues this trend.

>>51027940
How does a larp for CTL even work?

>>51028533
Then you must weep a lot.

>>51028568
>How do larps even work?

Fixed it for you. They don't. Nothing but emos, edgy kids and fatties pretending to be daeva harpies/princes with majesty and presence 5, strinking looks, etc.

>>51028492
Are you seriously complaining that the open development is what's in the book? It wasn't a sneak peak, it was "here's the mechanics, feel free to playtest them and talk about them".

The book is exactly what we were told it would be.

>1e Crones were cool as fuck and had minimal nonsense since the books focused more on the fact that they are pagan vampire wizards instead of championing radical social politics in tableto rulebooks.
Crones were radical feminist witches since day one, and the Circle splatbook brought us magical menstruation female empowerment.

>>51028579
I'm pretty happy, anon. I get to drink your cishet tears every time OPP cucks you with feminism.

>>51028533

>I love male tears

We really don't need to hear about you gulping down semen.

>>51028598
So it's tabletop games without the table, is what you're saying?

>>51028639
Even more clique-ish though, requires a shit ton more people and is prone to biased preference at worst from the gm

>>51028601
>Crones were radical feminist witches since day one, and the Circle splatbook brought us magical menstruation female empowerment.

itt things that never happened. Magic menstruation has been around since the eighties anyway, and there is nothing actually wrong with it. The Crúac book had guidelines for making all kinds of cults, and had both male and female archtypes to follow by varying status, and cultural environment.

The covenant books of 1e each alone have more content and better written content then this book that is the only thing you'll get for VtR 2e, most likely forever, has alone for all covenants.

Only when the book has the quality of a homebrew written by someone mentally ill.

>Are you seriously complaining that the open development is what's in the book? It wasn't a sneak peak, it was "here's the mechanics, feel free to playtest them and talk about them".

No, but I expect more from a gaming company then having fans design half the shit they include in the books, then expect them to playtest it, while including mechanics that requires players and STs to make functional like both Crúac and Thebean Sorcery, while taking years to pad books with fluff written by hack freelancers straight out of their tumblr groups, which they forget to pay most of the time, while seemingly focusing almost entirely on cashing in on merchandise based on oWoD lines.

Onyx Path has made exactly three books across all lines and splats and game systems that are worth not refunding. Though I admit I haven't looked at Pugmire yet.

>>51028568
CTL LARPs always take place in the gala when the next seasonal king is crowned, there are four every year, there's an ongoing story usually dealing with problems in the city and the hedge, rumors about true fae and stuff like that, most of the time you deal with internal feuds and seasonal politics. you can send actions between sessions to deal with problems and do some missions.

>>51022223
Why would you need a Kiasyd portrait? They can look like pretty much anything. Plus they're pretty DeviantArt anyway.

>>51025408
The major difference is that in the Dark Ages, the Camarilla and Sabbat haven't been formed yet, so there's no formal Masquerade. That means that each clan is more independent than in the Modern Nights. On the flip side, it's more likely that a vampire from another clan will decide to screw you over because the long-ranging political consequences, if any, will likely be negligible unless you're someone especially important.

>>51028811
Kiasyd are lanky fuckers with pure white skin and black eyes

That new Mummy novel that I still need to finish came out today for Non-KS backers, if you're interested in that sort of thing.

>>51028832
In V20 DA, it says "There is no stereotypical Kiasyd, but every single one carries a physical mark that exposes the fae in her. This may be something subtle, like heterochromatic eyes or a sixth finger on each hand, or very obvious, such as being seven feet tall and having blue skin." Though if you want to go for that look, you can just look for pictures of the Kor from MtG and colour the eyes black.

>>51025408
Dark Ages is the superior version of WoD.

>>51028914
I'm not playing Darkages, I'm playing Modern

>>51028928
gay

I can’t remember the last time I had a real, legit, hard-on. It didn’t make me feel powerful though.
I remember a time it would have been like a weapon in my hand, ready to go, you know? Now it makes me all
needy and aching like I’m totally incomplete.

Yes that is totally what having a penis feels like.

>>51028928
There's a rule in Modern Nights that Kiasyds all have the same look? Weird. The Kiasyd art in the DA book all looks like that, so idk.

>>51028922
I'll take your words of wisdom to heart anon.

Now to find a game group that'll play in RL.

>>51028949

Did you actually pay for this, anon?

>>51028961
Appearance: The Kiasyd aren’t called “Weirdlings” just because of their behavior. Most of them are well over six feet tall (two meters or more), willowy, and thin. Their skin isn’t just pale, as with most vampires, but glows faintly in moonlight. Their eyes are almondshaped and have no visible pupils. They are often violet
or jet black in color. Their ears are slightly pointed.
The Kiasyd cover this with a hat or headband when going out amongst mortals, but even so, their height and skin tone make them stand out

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>>51028717
I meant specifically that the Circle of the Crone corebook gives the merit that lets you magically menstruate. And I also have no actual problem with Undead Menses, though most anons do.
It's very childish to argue that the Circle of the Crone was never feminist. Their entire schtick is that they're a paganist Goddess cult in the vein of neopagan movements like Wicca, which in the real world is a very feminist cult. Their whole schtick is worshiping a Goddess and embracing many of the traditionally feminine traits, like creation, as well as a rejection of patriarchal norms.

This book is exactly what we were told it would be. While it's true that there are a lot of aspects of the Covenants that don't really get brought up anymore, and a lot of them I miss, quit acting like all those neckbeards whenever some cartoon they liked is rebooted and "rapes" their childhood. For fucks sake, ritual castration isn't even anything new to the Circle of the Crone. Their best Bloodline practices it. Hell, here's a bit about it in the Circle of the Crone 1e corebook.

>The covenant books of 1e each alone have more content and better written content then this book that is the only thing you'll get for VtR 2e, most likely forever, has alone for all covenants.
You mean having 226 pages dedicated to one thing means that one thing is more detailed than having to share barely over 200 pages with four other things? Wow!

>No, but I expect more from a gaming company
First off, open development is probably one of the best things that OPP has been doing. Second, the book hasn't taken years due to padding, it took years due to the people writing it having lives outside of the book. All the people you listed in your little whine are also veteran writers from the White Wolf era.
>Onyx Path has made exactly three books across all lines and splats and game systems that are worth not refunding.
I doubt you bought them anyway.

>>51028949
Vampire problems :<

Can you make your Free Council Teche your dedicated Magical tool?
Allowing you to effectively used your dedicated tool twice, for a -4 to Paradox rolls, if you surround yourself with people jamming, or dancing or something?

I mean, even given that their merit seems like utter garbage compared to most other Order's benefits.

>>51029032
Well shit. Again though you could probably make a suitable portrait by taking a picture of a Kor from Magic: the Gathering and colouring the eyes. They have the whole "pure white skin" thing going on and a lot of them don't have visible pupils. The clothing won't be modern, but you can just use the face.

>>51029048
>All the people you listed in your little whine are also the last writers from the White Wolf era hired before bankruptcy and the most infamous hacks that shat up White Wolf for years like Holden and David Hill Jr.

Fixed that for you.

>>51029048
In the section that's from (describing the "Daughters of the Goddess"), the Oak Kings are also the only male vampires permitted to learn Cruac.

>>51029073
Techne is an Order Tool, not a Dedicated Tool, so it doesn't give -2 to Paradox rolls. Each use of a Yantra is also separate, so you can't use something as a tool twice in the same turn.
Techne is really only useful for group spells.
It really *should* allow you to use a mortal ritual as an additional Dedicated Tool, though. I wish techne allowed for what the Magical Traditions did in 1e, where if I was a voodoun or stage magician, I could do magic associated with those things and not suffer Paradox.

>>51029116
You might as well just say "nwod sucks fags". That's about where you are.

>>51029163
No, it doesn't. But this edition is like some fans playing pretend while completely missing the point of what they're butchering. Reading Secrets of the Covenants is just reinforcing that.

>>51029163
>Order Tool
Yeah, but can't you dedicate a specific Order Tool?

Also it really fucking sucks for group spells, the main benefit (8-agains) can be easily gained from a simple Prime 2 spell, which any decent gathering of Mages will have available.

It's just really fucking disappointing.

I want to make a Thyrsus Libertine character with a strong connection to the local club scene, and musical magic, but spending points on Teche seems like such a waste when instead I could cultivate a more useful Shadow Name.

>>51026230
It feels like I've been waiting years for this moment.

>>51029116
Holden and Morke being made developers was a terrible mistake.

Consider the following:

a kindred = Man + Beast

Beast -> Stryx -> Cruac -> Mother -> Woman

a kindred = Man + Woman

VtR is and has always been about the Man's struggle to stay standing, in the face of a Woman's ghastly needs.

>>51029588
A kindred can be Woman + Beast though, so whatever.

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>>51029642
To describe the kindred condition, VtR has always consistently used the terminology of "Man vs Beast", though.

>>51029753
I don't know anything about Requiem lol. That's kind of cool though, it's more explicitly pagan.

Daily reminder that Lancea et Sanctum>Circle of the Crone.

>>51029988

Do we really need a daily reminder? Thats like saying "daily reminder, humans need to breath air"

>>51029184
I don't really agree. You just don't like it, so you call it butchery. Something tells me that outside of /wodg/, the book is being well recieved. Especially since so many people liked the Clanbook style that this is meant to mimic.

>>51029333
You can, but it won't give you any additional bonuses, other than being easier to carry around. But Techne isn't really a thing you carry around, anyway, so...

>It's just really fucking disappointing.
I'm clearly an OPP apologist or whatever, but I agree. I actually wrote an alternate version on the forums that uses Techne for a Dedicated Tool instead of Order Tool, then allows you to buy a 1dot Merit for individual Rotes that make it so they don't cause Dissonance unless you over-reach. If you do over-reach, though, your Gnosis is treated higher, so more Paradox dice.

I just really want to do a stage magician Mage who casts magic on stage and doesn't suffer Paradox.

>>51029361
That's not funny, anon :<
Hopefully it'll be out soon. I want Half-Damned more.

>>51029588
>>51029642
>>51029753
"Man" is also gender neutral, from when "male human" was were and "female human" was wif. "Man" as is often used in relation to the Beast is "Human".
Though for Cruac that relation being one of embracing the feminine monster is pretty valid.

Although I kind of hate the way that Cruac is treated as the spooky evil darkbad magic. I'd much rather if it was neutral in nature, but that individual rituals and practices tended to be rather cruel. It's ridiculous to me that the Covenant that has the most potential to be unabashed "good" guys (gals) is also the one who's magic makes them inherently evil, or at least inhuman. The Acolytes have whole roles dedicated to nurturing and growth and care and positive things, but their magic cuts off their humanity because it's darkbadevil for being bloody. Meanwhile the Ordo Dracul will cut a wizard's face off and sew it to their chest and their blood magic doesn't make them inherently less human.

>>51029988
>>51030170
This thread has bad tastes: News at 11

>>51028735
How do you handle changes in game between sessions?

>>51030293
(don't do what you do so well, please)

>potential t be unabashed "good" guys (gals)
Ever heard the saying: vampires ruin everything? They're not supposed to be good guys. Cronies have a Covenant worshipping some ur-Monster (probably a Stryx), how does that give them any solid, moral standing?

>>51029361

Truly this is our...A Thousand Years of Night

>>51031104
Now I really am Vampire: the Requiem

>>51031181

I guess you could say that it really was a Chronicles of Darkness

>>51029361
>>51031104

Am I the only Anon totally underwhelmed by the ATYON blog post.

I fear the book may be too much fluff like Secrets of the Covenants, and not meet crunch expectations of great high-level splat tomes like Imperial Mysteries.

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qt Thyrsus here to serve

>>51031290
Serve what?

>>51030356
After a session the players get a chance to send three actions, this can be anything you would do in a game session, the narration team resolves this action and the player receives a feedback explaining what happened so they might prepare for next session. they also get a chance to spend exp.

>>51030405
Because "monster" doesn't mean "rampant destructive and inherently malicious force".
>• Remember that the covenant reveres creation (which is why the Circle reveres female symbolism) and perseverance through tribulation, not destruction.
(this section goes on to talk about Diablerie, but it still applies generally)
There's also the Maiden/Virgin, which is an Acolyte who's never killed and remains pure. There are even Crone cults dedicated to purity. There's also the Fool, who's a male Acolyte that hasn't killed and approaches problems without the callousness of being a murderer.

>>51031104
>>51031181
>>51031221
Not vampire related, but I almost laughed out loud in the theater during the previews
https://youtu.be/UEP1Mk6Un98
Skip to 1:40

>>51031360
Eye candy

>>51031360

Fries and shakes on rollerskates, of course.

>>51031280
I'm more interested in fluff than crunch, and I don't even like Imperial Mystery's crunch (CofD already had trouble with Mage 1e mechanics, still has trouble with Mage 2e mechanics, and isn't really good for handling high level things any way other than "more dice")

"Narrative" crunch, like how to handle flashbacks, is precisely what I want.

>>51031506
If you wanted advice on how to GM, why don't you just read a GM book, or just any book about literature? It will give you advice far better than what WoD will give you.

>>51023817
I liberated bits from Masquerade that I liked.
So the game was about petty plots and squabbling among the city's vampires, but there was also a powerful, old vampire who'd woken up and was basically starting the sabbat with the intention of wiping out/converting all the local kindred before seizing control of the city and turning it into his undead fiefdom.

>>51031569

GMing isn't literature, and generic GM advice can only get you so far. Fearing that the Elder book is going to have too much fluff based on some flashback framework rules seems a bit hasty. Being an Elder doesn't really need anything so mechanically detailed has having to create new Practices, after all. I'm expecting there to be Devotions galore in the book, though.

>>51031569
General GMing advice is not the same as specific GMing advice for the themes and tone of the book in question, and things like "here's how to use framing scenes" isn't really GMing advice to begin with, so much as it is providing a tool with which to better run a scene.

What I'm interested in is also ancient vampire stuff, and how vampires might be after living for a thousand years. Of night.

I also disagree with the whiny "WoD gives shit advice" argument.

>>51031748
I'm expecting/hoping/fearing a new template for Elder vampires.

>>51031748
>>51031795
I'm fine with fluff, what I have a problem with is when a book claiming to be a lorebook gives me "gming advice."

What is everyone hoping for the Elder book?

>>51032075
New devotions that are on the absolute extreme of vampiric power.

New Coils and Blood Sorceries that are the the pinnacle of development over millennia.

>>51032075

Some kind of mechanic to represent the high level of influence Elders have. A meta-scale Social Manipulation but for Vampire Politics and Real Politics would be cool.

>>51032075

Some mechanics that give the most powerful elders a small chance to survive an encounter with an archmage.

>>51032269
Like Archmages Pawns?

>>51025592

Yeah. I run a Masquerade LARP every 1st and 3rd weekend with 25-30 players. I have also LARPed Requiem, Forsaken, Awakening and Lost.

What can I do ya for?

>>51025691
Been a while since I've had time to be on.

>>51032075
>What I'm hoping for?
Conspiracy and political intrigue that spans across continents and centuries. How to storytell a true monster the end result of countless nights of giving into the beast.

>What I'm probably going to get?
Gender-politics.

So I remember reading in Awakening 1e about imbuing bullets with various spells, can you still do that in 2e? Would love to have some lightning bullets.

>>51026724
The chose better art direction and better artists. It's probably one of my favorite things about the DAV20 book.

>>51028568
This is highly dependent on the game. The Lost LARP that I last played in played every other week, and we had a variety of plots. People generally got together at a neutral gathering place for the Freehold, swapped stories and shot the shit; generally had supernatural investigations and interpersonal rivalries and politics. We have a large playspace though, in a hotel convention center (Changeling piggybacks off the much larger vampire game for space), so we do deco and have breakout space rather than being confined to one room.

We had a wide variety of characters and our ST loved the 'weird shit in the Hedge' plots. Some of our plots were...
* Changelings are being targeted by humans who can see through the Mask, at the behest of the city Major and Council.
* A dragon made of lightning was fucking around wrecking Hob shit and causing a huge seasonal flux with its Wyrd.
* The Rat King, an Actor of a Changeling PC's Keeper, had appeared and was sniffing around. The PC, a Tinman/Toy Soldier, was replaced by his insane Fetch for a time.
* The Autumn Monarch planned to murder the Spring and Summer Monarchs.
* A motley of Loyalists was in the nearby area to deal with.
* A war between elf-esque Hobs and Beast Hobs caused friction in the Hedge.
* A Fetch became pregnant.

This is multiple plots over the course of a couple of years. All fun stuff.

>>51032075
Hrm. I think I'd like to see ideas for a 'leapfrog' chronicle, how to play a chronicle that jumps from era to era. I think that'd be helpful for a lot of people.

Also elders from the POV of the covenants. I'm familiar with general vampire elder bastardry, I'd like to see what the Covenants point out and how that colors elder age.

>>51032069
I'm sorry that you don't like useful guides for running flashbacks? But, uh, I kind of do, so...

>>51032343
The true monster is heterexism.

>>51032343

So what are the chances that ancient elder vampires are going to get their own special pronoun because centuries or millennia of undeath transcend the shackles of gender?

>>51031360

The exarchs, of course.

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>My OWoD game right now

>>51032398
Probably I don't think there are rules for it out yet. I'd just translate over the 1e rules temporarily.

>>51032806
I want to ride the spider

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>>51032806

are we doing single image game summaries?

>every cabal meeting

>>51032904
>That lady with only one gun
Poor girl

>>51032912
>>That lady with only one gun

She's only an apprentice.

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>>51032904
The climax of a Mage/Werewolf crossover?

>>51029163
>You might as well just say "nwod sucks fags".

But isn't that true, Aspel?

>>51032904
>Pussies drink last, man
>Fuck you, Tintin
>That shit aint even loaded
>Which one of you MOTOR CITY MOTHERFUCKERS want to bet me that this one ISN'T?

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>>51033087
>Rolling a nat 10 on an Animal Ken roll

>>51032075

Weaponised erections that can be used to literally drain the fuck out of hapless rent boys. I'm talking Freak Legion levels of lehtal damage causing hentai shlong. Also rules for steroids, and the entire book using male pronouns, even for female characters.... in the interest of equality.

>>51033801
>Weaponised erections that can be used to literally drain the fuck out of hapless rent boys. I'm talking Freak Legion levels of lehtal damage causing hentai shlong

Give this man a writing position

>>51032806
[Need to know more intensifies]

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Are we doing filenames?

As a mage, would healing a vampire be Life or Matter?

>>51034141

In 2e, it would likely be just Death or a combination of Death and Life.

>>51034153

Ascension revised, actually.

>>51034166

It would then probably require Life, Entropy and Matter.

>>51034166
>>51034141
matter

Also this is actually why we have death in nwod. So you can just play a necromancer instead of all the necro stuff being everywhere

is there another system compatible with wod that isnt gurps? i want to run a hunter game

>>51034449
What do you mean by 'compatible'? Do you mean 'easy to translate stuff between', 'has similar themes', 'has a conversion guide' like GURPS does, or something else.

>i want to run a hunter game
What's stopping you? Do you dislike the system?

>>51034449
...FATE?

Hey, I'm probably just illiterate but can anyone point me to where in M:tAw 2e (mouthful!) book it describes the actual act of the awakening? Character creation just has small blurbs but I was hoping for some actual description as to what the awakening /is/. (I've played 1e before but wanted to see if 2e changed anything important, and also to point to my roommate as he's never played before)

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>>51034449
Well I heard Storyteller System is commonly used with it.

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Changelings are insanity powered otherkin
Werewolves are Rage powered otherkin
Beasts are psychopathic otherkin
Vampires have mommy daddy issues
Prometheans have Abandonment Issues
Hunters are kids with guns
Mages are kids with nukes
Mummy are amnesiacs with Nukes
Demons are marysue technophiles
Sin Eaters need to go on a diet
and
Deviants need to get out of bed its past noon

>>51034486
i am not a fan of the combat and i also dislike dice pools, a game that is easy to translate stuff between

>>51031407
>Because "monster" doesn't mean "rampant destructive and inherently malicious force".
monster
ˈmɒnstə/
noun
noun: monster; plural noun: monsters

1.
a large, ugly, and frightening imaginary creature.
"a monster with the head of a hyena and hindquarters of a wolf"
synonyms: fabulous creature, mythical creature More
"legendary sea monsters"
giant, mammoth, colossus, leviathan, behemoth, titan, Brobdingnagian, monstrosity;
informaljumbo
"he was huge, a monster of a man"
an inhumanly cruel or wicked person.
"he was an unfeeling, treacherous monster"
synonyms: brute, fiend, beast, ogre, devil, demon, barbarian, savage, villain, sadist, animal, bogeyman; More
informalbastard, swine, pig;
informalradge;
vulgar slangshit
"her husband is an absolute monster"
humorous
a rude or badly behaved person, typically a child.
"he's only a year old, but already he is a little monster"
synonyms: rascal, imp, wretch, mischief-maker, rogue, devil; More
informalhorror, scamp, scallywag, tyke, monkey;
archaicrip, scapegrace, rapscallion;
informalperisher;
informalpickle;
informalvarmint, hellion
"Christian's only a year old, but he's already a little monster"
2.
a thing of extraordinary or daunting size.
"this is a monster of a book, almost 500 pages"
3.
a congenitally malformed or mutant animal or plant.

verbBritishinformal
verb: monster; 3rd person present: monsters; past tense: monstered; past participle: monstered; gerund or present participle: monstering

1.
criticize or reprimand severely.
"my mum used to monster me for coming home so late"

>>51032075
Golgonda

>>51034549
>Mages are gods

Fix'd

>>51034627
>"my mum used to monster me for coming home so late"
>remove the n and the s
>add a h

MONSTERS CONFIRMED OVERPROTECTIVE MOTHERS

Is VtR 1e as good as 2e gameplay wise? I really dislike the new fluff, so I'm not sure which edition to use.

>>51034766
You can easily use the fluff from 1e with the mechanics from 2e. Exempting a few details, such as specific coils. Mechanically, 1e is a bit more wonky than 2e.

>>51034766
It's alright, but you could just ignore fluff like most people do. The old system wasn't hideously broken or too clunky, just sort of ran it's course and new ideas meant a new edition.

Say I wanted to update some bits of Belial's Brood to 2e. Which do you think would be essential?

>>51028305
>One page its the repeated castration and murder of a male feminist whom is perfectly happy with this the next its both white genocide and Acolytes using Atheism+ tactics.
And people say the Lancea et Sanctum are the bad guys because they spook people into going back to church.

>>51035035
>church
Well, a good part of the fan base are fedora-tier atheists.

Not saying:go organized religion. But you know, that's probably why the Lance gets a lot of flack.

>>51035035
>Lancea et Sanctum

I still find this name change a little bit weird.

>>51034141
Yeah, you need Matter. Fluff states that the point of death changes the Quintessence from Life to Matter. I think they added another requirement later, around the Revised era, but buggered if I remember what it was. Prime? Spirit?

Back in the days of Usenet there was a meme involving "turn vampire into lawn furniture, Matter 3". Some LARPers even played along and had Mages sitting on them.

Also,
What is Matter?
Never Mind.
What is Mind?
Never Matter.

>>51034502
Stuff like that is best found in the novels. The best description of Delirium and characterisation of spirits I ever read was in the allegedly "shitty" paperbacks.

>>51034571
Just freeform everything, focus on telling the story. If you need to decide random factors, set a floating difficulty and roll a single die against it.

I used that system to play with people so hilariously stoned they couldn't keep track of combat book-keeping. Worked like a charm.

I want to be one with the Abyss

>>51035129
I thought they had simply corrected their Latin.

>>51035129
My latin is hopeless, but I think it's the difference between "Holy Place of the Lance" and "Lance and Holy Place".

I'm not into Requiem, does that distinction make sense to anyone?

>>51035171
Go Scuba diving sometime. As you float in the darkness and the silence, you will only hear your laboured breathing.

>>51035050
Some of the Christian fans dislike the Lancea et Sanctum on theological grounds as well.

So I want to run a Friday the 13th sort of game for my group, the PCs will be counselors and they have to survive, defeat or escape a killer hunting them in the summer camp they work at. I have little experience with NWoD, but apparently there's a book for "slashers" that might work well for this. Would it work, or should I look elsewhere?

>>51035433
What grounds are those? Sounds interesting.

>>51035171
Enter the astral and prepare for a long journey. You'll need to travel far past your oneiros, past man's temenos, and almost past the world's dreamtime. Walk to the sea of ouroboros and gaze upon the shore littered with the shattered remains of the aeons' towers.

You'll find an old man there tending a fire. What is known is that he's always been there. What isn't is who is he. There's a rumor of course, but if you believed in that story you wouldn't have risked coming here at all.

He's approachable enough if you wish to speak with him if a little distant. He'll most certainly laugh at you for what you seek and warn you off.

You won't listen.

So I have no idea where these came from, but I like em, so maybe someone else will get some inspiration from them.

A woman in a short white dress leans against the frame of a picture window while a man in a dark suit sits in a wicker chair outside, overlooking a lush green lawn surrounded by cypress trees draped in moss, the sun shining overhead.
The sun is revealed to be a giant brass eye, surrounded by coronas of gears and oil. The trees are tar black bones, the moss steel wire. The lawn is purely artificial now, a sick crayon green.
The woman is a cylinder of quicksilver and ozone, five roaming eyes looking back at you. The man is a fat, bloated brown slug with no head, but a massive gash of a mouth running across its stomach.

A late night dilapidated street scene, somewhere in the Southern United States, in front of an old two story tavern, red brick and balconies overlooking the trashcans and lit wrought iron streetlamps. Lights and music abound, people can be seen through the open windows and doors partying, drinking, and generally having a good time.
Two friends from out of town try to convince a third one that he should join them in going into the club, while a woman in a lacy green top and jeans looks on from one of the balconies.
Inside each of the windows, the silhouette of a mask can be seen, weaving through the partygoers. The brick bleeds ichor, the balconies held up by nothing but paper and false dreams. One of the two men is a feminine creature with a ring of teeth for eyes and gaping hole for a mouth, greenish copper with meaty hooks at the end of its hands. The woman has no hair, her skull huge and turgid, covered in green and purple diodes. The trash cans have spindly legs and arms, ending in thin, spikey claws.

>>51035631
The Slashers supplement is 1ED, but there is still a lot of stuff you can use with minimal changes.

What kind of killer will be hunting your PCs, exactly? Will it be straight up Jason? If yes, I can link you to a post in the OP forums where someone wrote a full character for Jason.

>>51035794
I'd like to have the killer be hidden among various NPCs, so I can keep them guessing.

>>51036136
There's a fan made type of Slasher that might work for that. You can find their Talents and Frailties here, under Chameleon/Bogeyman: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/155637-slasher-gmc-port

Are Belial's Brood and Bale Hounds axed in this new edition?

>>51021567
You totally can get such things in Hungary, and probably in Croatia too.
Two problems: they won't be new ones most of the time and there is a huge chance that they won't be in english either.

>>51036693
I hope not. They're better antagonists than the Strix and the Idigams.

>>51036693
No mention of the Brood in BS, AFAIK.

So what the best item in terms of lore, in your guys opinion?

>>51037340

I've always been partial to the Prince of a Thousand Leaves.

>>51037410
It sounds like generic Mage chuuni shenanigans to me.

>>51037537

>chuuni

You don't need to dip into the weeb speak to call someone "delusional".

>>51037574
It's more than simply delusional, it's delusional, childish and full of incomprehensible jargon, hence "chuuni".

Can you spend more than 1 vitae using Physical Intensity? Does the buff cap at the usual +5 or it can go higher?

>>51037709
Yeah, but you do it in subsequent turns. So no, per turn just the one for a +2 bonus.

>>51037752
Isn't it a reflexive action? I was sure it was capped only by the vitae/turn limit

>>51037800
It's not stated explicitely. So, you're house your rulings. I'd cap it at +5 though.

>>51037668

Then just say that instead of anime words. You won't die from saying words.

>>51034627
Do people still believe that pasting dictionary definitions means anything in this year of two-thousand and seventeen?
Nevermind that the first definition there is the one you want: "A large, ugly, and [or] frightening creature." That's pretty close.
But even then, a dictionary means shit. Look up an encyclopedia article. Look up the cultural context. Look through books of monsters and see things that don't necessarily fit that definition. Unicorns are on many monster lists. Some places just use the phrase "monsters and fabulous beasts" or something similar, without any real distinction on the individual entries.

What does your linking the definition mean, anyway? It doesn't change the fact that the Circle of the Crone don't worship their "ur-monster" as a destructive and evil force. I keep wanting to use the word "antagonistic", but that's another word where the Crone would use it differently, in that same Church of Satan style, where "antagonist" is not a bad thing, because the status of the world needs to be challenged.

>>51035136
M20 has "The infamous vampire lawnchair" as a spell. Most of the write up is passive aggressively saying why it's stupid.

>>51035668
"They're an evil christian organization that tortures and terrorizes people until they rejoin the flock" is a pretty good reason to dislike them if you're Christian or nonChristian.

>>51037897
If we look up at the etymology, in latin Monstrum means prodigy, extraordinary, unnatural. So no point in bringing up dictionaries

>>51037926
>Etymology
>Not a dictionary defintion
choose one.

>>51025510
>Masquerade 20th Anniversary edition has terrible, terrible art inside it.

Still not as bad as the art in the "V20 - The Black Hand" book. That shit is just plain revolting.

Dark Ages V20 had decent art, though. Not *amazing* or anything, but decent.

"V20: Hunters Hunted II" is an amazing book though, and the art is similarly amazing.

Of course, YMMV.

>>51037897

Even Unicorns kill people, especially if you're not a virgin. In the greater cultural context, monsters hurt and harm, sometimes simply because they are Not Us. Even the nicer bunch get the label because they're put in opposition to "normal" human life.

The Circle doesn't worship their deity as a destructive and evil force, but it is still a destructive and evil force to the ordinary humans in the World of the Chronicles of Darkness, especially if as directly relates to the Strix as the books hint. They're not good people, but none of the Covenants are, so it's a wash.

>>51037897

Well, considering she requires blood sacrifice, they will never be truly benign. There's a gradient, of course. But it runs from "bad" to "omg that's so fucked up", the scale isn't "ghandi" through to "hitler". Remember: vampires ruin everything.

>It doesn't change the fact that the Circle of the Crone don't worship their "ur-monster" as a destructive and evil force
Similar for the Lance. They do some evil fucking shit, but towards a "noble" purpose. Scaring the kine back into the arms of their "loving" God.

>>51037922
Yeah, they're quite bad at turning the other cheek I guess.

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>>51028811
>>51028832
>>51028914
>>51028928
>>51028961
>>51029032

Time to educate you fuckers on the lore.

The reason why the Kiasyd are so different in appearance in V20 Dark Ages is because they're not really a bloodline at all in the Dark Ages; they're a collection of people with faerie blood who ended up with the shitty deal of getting embraced.

One Kiasyd, Marconius (whose sire was from Lasombra) ended up with features of being tall, pale and had dark eyes that made him stand out. This Kiasyd then embraced more vampires who ended up sharing his appearance, and started a brood of his own that became a proper bloodline in the Modern Nights.

Marconius then decided that *his* brood should be the true Kiasyd, and the the remaining Kiasyd gave him and his brood a wide berth, and willingly faded into the background. Over the ages, the other Kiasyd either died, wandered about aimlessly, or joined the Black Hand under the the new name "Maeghar".

So there you have it; the explanation for why Kiasyd are wildly different from one another in the Dark Ages, and why the bloodline share the same eerie look in the Modern Nights.

You're welcome.

>>51037912
>M20 has "The infamous vampire lawnchair" as a spell. Most of the write up is passive aggressively saying why it's stupid.

M20 was utter garbage, but I must admit that I smiled when I read that bit.

>>51037926
Are you saying that to agree with me or prove me wrong? Because either way deferring to etymology is just as bad as citing a dictionary, even if "prodigy, extraordinary, unnatural". I just hate this notion that "this is what the word *means*" has any notion on how it's actually used. Use dictates meaning.

>>51038048
The Circle is the group where they literally have a role for good people. There are Crone cults about purity. It's not that the Crone is beautiful and pure and not evil at all ever. there's a reason I said they have the most potential to be "good" people, with quotations. It's hard to be a good person as a vampire even if you somehow manage Humanity 10 for an extended period. But the Covenant that's all about creation and triumphing through struggle is inherently less shitty and evil than the Covenant that cuts living things apart to see how they tick, and that's why it bothers me that the Blood Magic where you could take five dots or more of only nice things is also the one where your powers cut your Humanity off permanently.

>>51038067
I dislike the notion that blood sacrifice is inherently evil, and one of my beefs with the Circle is that there's this opportunity for less modern Western moral values, but instead "blood sacrifice=evil" is what they go with. Humans have been slaughtering animals for tens of thousands of years, both ritually and otherwise. Why is blood sacrifice evil if much of what the Acolytes do isn't even as bad as what the meat industry does?
Like, I'm not saying there aren't "torture living sentient being" rituals, and they've got magic that makes you literally shit out your own intestines, but the Circle's core tenants are not evil. They're about creation, and how suffering brings strength.

I like the idea of a bloody, monstrous creation cult. I just don't like that it's arbitrarily the most evil Covenant when they do things that are objectively not shitty, while everyone else does things that are shitty.

So whats the weirdest official magic item in your guys opinion?

>>51038375
And to be clear, I don't have a problem with evil Acolytes or the fact that bloody sacrifice can lead you down the slippery slope to draugrhood.

It's just that, like... Cruac isn't as bad as Coils, but Coils don't permacap your Humanity.

>>51038067
>Similar for the Lance. They do some evil fucking shit, but towards a "noble" purpose. Scaring the kine back into the arms of their "loving" God.
I hate the Lance, and it makes no sense that their powers--most of which are antagonistic--are based on Humanity being high. Honestly, it wouldn't take much to make the Lance interesting, but as-is everything about them that could be good is just arbitrarily evil.

I just don't care about them as much as the Crone, so I don't bother with them.

>>51038375
>Use dictates meaning.
which is then written down in a dictionary. wtf is your problem?

>>51038457
>which is then written down in a dictionary. wtf is your problem?

Stop responding to him. Just ignore him.

>>51034549
I don't get the thing about Sin Eaters

Is there an outcome in any of the gehenna scenarios where the pre-apocalypse status quo is more or less restored, with vampires still doing vampire things and humans going on to invent smartphones?

>>51038375
>animal sacrifice
it's about the human sacrifices, though. little harder to excuse those by pointing at another wrong we're currently already perpetuating (i.e. your meat industry example). also two wrongs do not make a...? That's right.

>they're about creation
Yeah, but sometimes the means don't simply justify ends, in a moral sense of that word, "justification" that is.

>arbitrarily the most evil
It's not. It's about as shitty as the rest of 'em. Go Unbound if you don't want to sin against Humanity.

>>51038396
Cruac perma caps Humanity due to the connection Cruac - Stryx - Beast. It's a thematic consilidation. It's not about how bad the actions are that go hand in hand with Cruac, it's about the source. Same logic holds for why the Thebans have a minimum Humanity to cast.
>most Lance powers are antagonistic
Pretty sure many if not most of Cruac rituals are too.

>make the Lance interesting
I already think they're pretty interesting. But I'm eager to hear what you'd propose.

>>51038396
>-most of which are antagonistic-
Not really. Only 4 out of the 9 in core book are: Blood Scourge (debatable, a weapon is a tool), Blandishment of Sin, Malediction of Despair and Stigmata. Maybe the Curse of Babel counts, but it's overall better than Cruac in terms of "non-antagonistic" powers.

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>>51034449

Sure is friend!

>>51038375
>The Circle is the group where they literally have a role for good people.
Your reading of the Maiden is spectacularly off-point. She doesn't kill because she is supposed to be beyond good and evil. She's not supposed to be good. In fact, CoC states that

>"The most successful Maidens, of course, are vampires who -do- accept that it would be right and proper for them to kill humans, but who restrain themselves to hone their inner strength and grow by self-imposed tribulation."

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>There are good blood sucking parasites
Vamps are in some way corrupting and destructive. Most vamps direct or displace that into furthering their own goals and ideals. Whether that is 'good' or 'evil' is a matter of perception. Debating about the granular shouldn't take away from that.

A 'good' vampire is much like a pirate with a Letter of marque. They'll destroy something, but because it directed towards people you hate anyways, you don't mind as much. And in fact those actions may even be seen as heroic in some people eyes.

>>51034113
I'm playing an Ananasi and apparently I am also the party's taxi, since I took the Jump gift. Last night's session had the party riding on my character's back to get to the place they needed to go.

>>51038529
not having it. all the end times scenarios are really dumb and railroading metaplot heavy

>>51038375

Purity doesn't necessarily mean good, either.

At the end of the day, one can be about creation and triumphing over struggle all you like, but if they're a part of a group that commits blood sacrifice and consorts with potentially Strix-based focus, that makes them just as evil as the rest of them. There is no "inherently less evil and shitty" with the Covenants, there is "what kind of evil are you willing to justify to stave off the Beast and the march of time".

Cruac can cut off your Humanity permanently because it is not a human thing to do. Practicing it and gaining mastery of it will seperate you from the herd, and mechanically it should be represented as such.

>>51038529

Nope. Once Gehenna kicks off, there is no going back. VtM5e might have a version of a Gehenna-like event that has that kind of outcome, though. We will see.

>theban verse cruac

The power of theban is faith and willpower
the power of cruac is blood and the beast

Theban pushes the user to taking banes to keep its humanity. Thus pushing their souls even further out of shape.

While Cruac says humanity doesn't matter Look at all these cool toys! and because vampires are destructive. It pulls at the character, player to not care about maintaining that stat. Mostly because the upper levels are seen as not important, possible or worth wild to obtain or maintain.

>>51038517
They eat sin.

>>51038532
Human sacrifice isn't a necessity for the Circle of the Crone. And, no, the Circle of the Crone is arbitrarily the most evil, or at least the "least Human". Their Blood Magic caps humanity. If you have Cruac 5, you can never rise above Humanity 5. You're a monster in the badwrongevil sense. It's a completely pointless thematic consolidation, and the Strix didn't even exist in 1e's corebook, which it's a holdover from. The reason that Cruac caps your humanity in 1e is because it arbitrarily involves torture and malice, even, it seems, when the powers themselves involve creation. In 2e there's the Strix connection, but even then the Cruac itself isn't inherently evil or Strixlike. Hell, Strix don't create things.

>But I'm eager to hear what you'd propose.
Nothing. Like I said, I don't like them. I mean, just making them vampire paladins would be more interesting. Take your general brooding blood knight type character and make them that. "I'm the grim protector, looking over the flock". I don't mind a bit of the whole "ooga booga, say your prayers" type stuff, though I feel like tying it explicitly to Christianity is dumb, and I'd prefer to see Secular or non-Christian "Sanctified".
I don't even think that tempting people to sin to test their morality is bad. I just feel the whole Sabbat Lite thing is meh.

>>51038538
Cruac in the core is kind of shortchanged. But shit like From the Void style and Birthing the God are what I like and want to see more of. It's gross and bloody, but it's also creative and nurturing.

>>51038668
And elsewhere in the write up it talks about purity. That said "the most successful", not all of them. The Maiden is *appreciated* because she's pure. that's why elder vampires will come to her and ask intimate and awkward questions.

>>51038680
While it's harder to be good as vampire, it's not impossible. But the Crone philosophy doesn't entail destruction. That's the thing.

>>51038912
>arbitrarily
>new literally
schtap

>>51038912
>And elsewhere in the write up it talks about purity. That said "the most successful", not all of them. The Maiden is *appreciated* because she's pure. that's why elder vampires will come to her and ask intimate and awkward questions.
So she's acts as confessor and shrink to a bunch of blood sucking psychopaths? Yeah, that makes her a stellar enabler of good behaviour.

>>51038743
>>51038855
In what way does purity not mean good? Are you just trying to try copying me? "Monstrous" doesn't mean inherently evil because there are several historical examples of things called monsters that aren't evil, and "it turns out the real monster was man" is barely even a modern trope. Stories like Beauty and the Beast are all about how scary angry things aren't necessarily evil.
Purity on the other hand is in basically every connotation "good".

>Practicing it and gaining mastery of it will seperate you from the herd
Sure, and I'm fine with that.
>and mechanically it should be represented as such.
This I'm not. There's no reason for it, it's completely arbitrary. There are so many other, more inhuman, powers that don't cap your Humanity.

>because vampires are destructive.
Except that "Creativity is power" is one of the core philosophies of the Circle. Nothing about Cruac inherently makes you care less about humanity any more than any other Covenant, particularly the Ordo Dracul. Hell, even the covenant that ostensibly cares most about maintaining The Man over the Beast--the Invictus--is pretty fucking inhuman and looks down on humanity.

>>51038947
I can't think of a better word for it when a choice is made in one place, but not another, even though the other place is a better example.

>>51038912
>The Maiden is *appreciated* because she's pure. that's why elder vampires will come to her and ask intimate and awkward questions.
That's not in the write-up. That's your head canon.

FIRST sentence:
>The Maiden (or Virgin) is a figure of purity and innocence, which leads many to expect goodness and charity.
SECOND sentence:
>That expectation is sentimental Christian baggage.

It then goes on to expand on the notion of the Maiden getting herself beyond good and evil.

The last paragraph goes into her role within the covenant.

>She has the power of denial with respect to morals, i.e. she can think as if morals do not exist (she is beyond good and evil).
>This power of denial gives her her power of "purity"
>Which is to set boundaries (to be an arbitrator) and to purify issues [of their moral contaminations].

Note that nothing in the following bits (especially Expectations) is about the Maiden being good. It is about the Maiden remaining human, in the sense that she has never devoured one whole. She acts like the Covenant's Touchstone (in 2e terms). But Touchstones are there to remind vampires what it is to be human, not what it is to be good. You'll have to get beyond that.

>>51038999
>>51038912

Destruction and corruption is an inherit nature of vampirism. And touches everything to degrees. To say otherwise is chuunibyou romantic twilight bullshit

so a archmage vs a high level servant from fate serires, who would win?

>>51039147
If you have to ask, it is always the Archmage. Doesn't matter against what. Archmage.

>>51038999

>In what way does purity not mean good?

In the way people tend to use it a lot of the time: as a neutral adjective representing the absence of impurities or adulterations. The Maiden is pure, but not in our traditional sense of morals.

>There is no reason for it, it's completely arbitrary

When you are actively rejecting humanity to do cool witchy shit, you're going to eventually separate from Humanity to an irreconcilable point. It's a mechanical representation of that.

>There are so many other, more inhuman, powers that don't cap your Humanity.

You're right in that it's not a consistent mechanic, but that's actually a compelling reason to have it apply to more Vampire powers, not to pull it from Cruac. If anything, that just means Cruac is doing it right, like how Theban Sorcery wants you to take on Banes. Playing Vampire long enough should beat up the Humanity scale pretty bad, not just drop.

>"Creativity is power"

Which is an active resistance of the inherent nature of the Vampire. That's why they harp on it so much. Every Covenant has a rejection of the Vampiric nature as their philosophical root. However, the curse of the Vampire means that their creation will ultimately be through destruction and pain, whether it's by the destruction of something that humans believe to be good, or through active, sometimes living, sacrifices.

>>51038999
>I can't think of a better word for it when a choice is made in one place, but not another, even though the other place is a better example.

>Be Es.pdf
>ctrl +f : "_evil_"

>mentioned 1
>Daeva write up (their real evil is that they give you what you want)

>mentioned 1
>Nosferatu write up (you want to be them because you can scare evildoers)

>mentioned 5
>in The All Night Society
>context: fiction piece, someone lamening on the evil that peopledo - ficion piece: FD swallowed a lot of evil and his Fortunado too. - night clubs are places to little evil deeds -

>mentioned 4
>in Parliament of Owls,
>context: Stryx

>mentioned 1
>in The World we Die In
>context: bible quote, Old Saint Mary's Cathedral

>mentioned 1
>in Appendix I
>context: description of a badge as a ward against evil

>Still not a robot

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>>51037895
>getting mad about anime

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Hey everyone, im a new and fresh-faced HtV ST and I have noticed that I dont seem to get conditions/tilts. I dont seem to apply them often enough and when I do apply them, thier application often falls very flat in both a roleplaying and mechanical sense.

Do you guys have any tips/tricks on how to deal with conditions? I dont want to use too many for fear of the players gaining too much EXP too quickly.

>>51039477

Anime is good. Anime words when you can just say what the words mean are bad.

>>51039330
What the fuck do you think I'm talking about?
I'm talking about the way that Cruac caps humanity but Coils of the Dragon don't.

>>51039322
Purity in this case literally means untarnished.
>When you are actively rejecting humanity to do cool witchy shit, you're going to eventually separate from Humanity to an irreconcilable point. It's a mechanical representation of that.
>You're right in that it's not a consistent mechanic
It's almost as if that was my argument or something.

>that's actually a compelling reason to have it apply to more Vampire powers, not to pull it from Cruac. If anything, that just means Cruac is doing it right, like how Theban Sorcery wants you to take on Banes.
I actually think that no powers should be inherently damaging to humanity. The only reason that powers should mention Humanity is as a reminder that they're not morally neutral, but at the same time all powers should be treated that way. I don't see the need to be explicitly told that torture as part of an Ordo rite is torture. That's implied on account of it being torture.

>Playing Vampire long enough should beat up the Humanity scale pretty bad, not just drop.
I agree, but not with an inherent cap on Humanity. What you do with the power is what matters, not the power itself.

Especially when, again, the Crone embraces aspects of the Beast while rejecting others, such as the notion that the Beast is inherently destructive and badwrongevil.

>>51039609
What an autistic thing to get upset about.

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>>51039609
"Chuuni" is not a concept that's easily translated to English. It's a fitting word. Part of English's linguistic hegemony is due to taking in new vocabulary.

>>51039639
>The only reason that powers should mention Humanity is as a reminder that they're not morally neutral,

Daily reminder that we no longer have a morality stat. I repeat we no longer have a morality stat. Within 2e CofD. In fact, Humanity never was meant to be about morality. And now even more, it's not about that. You are fundamentally mistaken about aspects of kindred and (by implications) about aspects of Cronie nature.

>>51038124
In 2nd Ed, there was Lasombra experimentation with blood they obtained through occult means, blood that was supposed to be a god of the underworld. That fae blood, infused in a Lasombra neonate, created the first Kiasyd.

#themoreyouknow

>>51039685
You can argue all you want, but Humanity is still a morality stat, it's just no longer the same kind of morality.
"Human=Good" is inherently a moral judgement.

>>51038553
where i can find the pdf of this?

>>51039785
>CatatonicNietzsche.gif

I'm sorry man, I can't help you. You simply miss the point. Again. And again.

>>51039559
You could try ditching your pathetic Chrod shit and returning to the Mother Setting?

>>51039639

Untarnished does not mean good.

>It's almost if that was my argument or something

The second half of your argument is "and therefore the Humanity cap caused by Cruac should be removed", when in fact, you actually present a case for why more powers should cap Humanity, or at least alter the Humanity track in some way.

>I actually think that no powers should be inherently damaging to Humanity

Vampire powers are one of the most anti-Human things you could do. You shouldn't get dinged every time you decided to spend a blood point on Celerity or whatever, but mastering the Disciplines or taking on straight up Blood Magic should change the psyche and nature of your character in major ways. One way to do that, mechanically, is to alter the Humanity track.

>What you do with the power is what matters, not the power itself

Cruac is not an inherent vampire power. To take it on is an explicit rejection of Humanity on some level, one that is not going to be reconciled without renouncing it entirely and doing some serious legwork with potential ST fiat. Embracing the Beast is a big deal, even if the character doesn't think it's so bad.

In other words, what you did mattered. You took on Cruac.

Even if we're looking at this from 1e's Morality framework of Humanity as opposed to 2e's Integrity framework of Humanity, a Crone pursuing Cruac isn't going to be interested in attaining higher levels of Humanity, because they're not interested in the morality system that forms it in the first place.

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SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DIE ASPEL, YOU PATHETIC FAT UGLY TRANNY BASTARD

>>51039639
>I'm talking about the way that Cruac caps humanity but Coils of the Dragon don't.
Because if it would cap Coils they wouldn't be Coils... Dragons aim to improve on their condition. Any improvement that would limit them in other ways would not be considered a legitimate improvement.

>>51039639
>abloobloobloo, I don't have creative control over Onyx Path

Daily reminder

Humanity is not a morality stat. Its about how Human you still feel

>>51039962
Nightly reminder

Everyone who is not Aspel is agreeing with you

>>51039875
Why would I want to play DnD?

>>51039559

An important thing to remember about Conditions is that they're not any different from what you might already be doing as a GM. If you give someone a -2 to Composure based rolls because their character lost their cool, it's no different from applying Lost Their Cool, it's just that now the player gets a bit more incentive to play up their current state.

Therefore, it might actually help to avoid Condition and Tilt names until absolutely mechanically necessary. Describe how the character feels and how the situation looks, then casually mention that it's covered by a Condition or Tilt, if it's not obvious.

Don't worry about XP problems. As long as you're hitting on your player's Aspirations, they shouldn't feel compelled to use Conditions for XP farming, and most of them don't have recurring Beats anyways.

You also don't have to use them every single time you could. A Condition or Tilt should only be applied if it feels important for the Character to have it, or if the rules explicitly demand they do, especially in combat situations.

If that still doesn't work? Consider dumping them entirely. Not every group responds well to them, even if they're just mechanical manifestations of what they might already be doing. That's fine, though you might want to have a 2 Beat reward for showing up instead of 1, to make up for not having them to be lost for Beats.

How do you run a horror game in CofD if your players are supernatural splats and not mortals?

>>51039900
Again, it's not the power itself that should damage your Humanity, except maybe at the highest levels.

The *use* should be the factor in your humanity, not the *knowledge*.

>>51039949
Dragons also reject Humanity.

>>51039962
>Its about how human you still feel.
Which is at its core a morality question. Being human--having high Humanity--is desirable. That's a moral stance.
Even ignoring the vast wankery of real world ethical philosophy, that type of trait in World of Darkness is still known as "Morality".

>>51040154
>Dragons also reject Humanity.
No. They accept that they are no longer human. There is a subtle difference.

>>51040154
>Being human--having high Humanity--is desirable.
for you

which is why you cry when your favourite covenant (or one of) caps your potential to reach high Humanity

we get it

but that's the thing with rpg, it's all about difficult choices

>>51040154
>Even ignoring the vast wankery of real world ethical philosophy,
kekt. Way to disengage when you're outgunned and outnumbered.

>that type of trait in World of Darkness is still known as "Morality".
Nope. If anything, it's known as Integrity.

>>51040144
>I'll ask again: who is Caine?

>>51040277
>CofD

>>51040154
>The *use* should be the factor in your humanity, not the *knowledge*.

When are you going to start reading the books you claim to be such a big fan of?

Breaking point having to do with knowing you're no longer human:

>watching humans eat a meal (9)
>rejected by a human (8)
>surviving something that would hospitalize a human (7)
>reading your own obituary (6)
>experiencing a car crash or other immense physical trauma (6)
>reaching blood potency 3 (5)
>surviving a century (4)
>reaching blood potency 6 (3)
>death of a mortal spouse or child (3)
>seeing a culture that didn't exist when you were alive (2)
>surviving 500 years (2)
>creating a revenant (2) - depending on how the ST runs them

you dig?

>>51038553
requesting this

>>51040006
The satisfaction of the dice rolling your way, like a gambler's lucky streak, ending the Dragon's age of tyranny and paying out in gold and gems?

>>51040300
The Cainite Heresy is a thing in CofD. And they're pretty scary for vampires.

Everyone, stop trying to argue reasonably with an unreasonable fat tranny bastard.

>>51040391
Why would vampires care?

>>51040391
I don't remember reading about the Cainite Heresy in the VtR core book, which book is it in? And what is it?

>>51040386
>but muh Striking Looks

>>51040144
Highlight the destructive impact there mere presence have on their environment.

werewolves have rage episodes
vampires suck the life out of things
and mages twists the natural order to their wants and whims

to a muggle this things are already fcked up and frightening. but for a monster you have to hammer home You are the cause of this terror. Play up the, "Oh god what am I / have I done?"

>>51040487
So what happens if my players like it?

>>51040498
Then just let them have their fun. You don't have to be a dick about it.

>>51040425
>>51040436
They're from Hunter the Vigil: Night Stalkers. They're cultists with blood magic that recruit former ghouls and the like to kill vampires and little else, and somehow managed to survive and be a threat since the late Roman era.

>>51040445
>I have no idea why you needed to greentext that

>>51036693
Their iconography shows up in the 2E corebook but they're never mentioned. I imagine they'd be better as npc antagonist using 1E stuff until further notice

>>51040498
>He was alone: this frightened him.
>He was free: this, too, frightened him.
>So he savored his fear
>and rejoiced in the night

>>51040425
Unknown blood magic and terrorist tactics. All members were formerly abused by vampire, and have no sense of collateral damage.

>The ancient murderer finally manages to corner the mortal who has caused him so much trouble, who has destroyed his minions and driven him away from his domain. He grasps the throat of the haggard, gaunt shaven-headed
woman and begins to squeeze. She spits out three words along with the blood in her mouth, and she smiles. He leans forward and says: What? She repeats it once more as her windpipe collapses: Who is Cain? Her body goes limp, and the live grenade in her hand clatters to the floor...

>>51040583
>somehow managed to survive and be a threat
You can sum up a big chunk of the setting with this sentence.

>>51040154

>The *use* should be the factor in your humanity, not the *knowledge*

It's a knowledge you learn through practices that explicitly reject Humanity, and alienate a Vampire from those feelings. It's hands-on, not academic, and even from a 1e Morality standpoint, that's enough to just cap it from the get go.

>Which is at its core a morality question. Being human--having high Humanity--is desirable. That's a moral stance.

One that 2e is less interested in having put on the player than its previous edition. Leftovers from Masquerade and Requiem 1e aside, 2e Humanity is not interested in being a morality scale. It's not an inherent judge of moral value like its predecesor is. It's closer to an objective psychological investment that the player is free to act on.

>>51040583

They've also got a small mention in the Testament of Longinius, there's fragments of a holy document that may have led to its creation in the Apocryphal section.

Is it really necessary to have all this Circle apologism? And this hardon for paganism is so 90's, crusades and templars are the new shit for the cool kids now.

>>51040766
>not waging Butlerian Jihad against the God Machine and its Angels
It like you don't even Dune Muslim

>>51040532
So if they are having fun with that how do I make it a horror game?

>>51040766

Really, Covenant apologism can go and stay go. They're all terrible in incredible ways and I love them like my own non-existant children.

>>51040498
Then you break out the hunters. Folks that have been wronged. The natural response to monsters. You don't bring in the police. what are they going to do about monsters?

Make it personal. Players are ready for a smg welding thug to be gunning for them, but not for the middle age house wife with a ladle. And this is where you need to get into the players head space. What's important / who is important? It'll look like emotional torture, which is exactly what it is. So you got to make sure all the aggression is ICly in nature and not lose your friends oocly. a lot of dom can make really good GM's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHAPcTx_FNc

and if they still don't get the horror occly. maybe not play with sociopaths?

>>51040872
What made you think they'd have fun with a horror game?

>>51034549

Changelings aren't otherkin, they're abuse survivors. They're more committed to coming back to old mortal identities than anything else.

>>51041019
>Get called a faggot
>Turn in to a shitty Celtic creature
Rats

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>>51040206
>for you
It's literally mechanically beneficial.
>>51040351
>Lying in defense of the Masquerade (10)
>Feeding from the unwilling or unknowing (9)
>Urging another's behavior with a Discipline (9)
>Creating a ghoul (8)
>Riding the wave of frenzy (8)
>Depriving another of consent with a Discipline (8)
>Injuring someone over blood (7)
>Feeding from a child (6)
>Impassioned violence (4)
>Accidental killing (4)
>Impassioned killing (3)
>Premeditated killing (2)
>Creating a Revenant (2)
>Heinous, spree, or mass murder (1)
>Killing your Touchstone (1)
Wow, I guess you're right, the game doesn't at all correlate being a good person with being more Human!
It's almost as if there were some kind of a moral statement being made, that doing things that are arguably very human (murder, violence) make you less human!
Note how my list is longer.
Yes, Humanity is about how human you are, and how much you're reminded of and indulge in your monstrous nature. But the game takes a very clear moral stance that being high Humanity is rewarded, and being low Humanity is bad. Having bad things happen to you fucks with your sense of self, but doing bad things is still bad.

>>51040425
They're terrorists with blood magic.

>>51040624
Does it? What page?

>>51040695
So I rejected Humanity once 500 years ago and now I've lived the last 500 years as a priest, but I'm still inhuman?
And, no, 2e is still very much of the opinion that high Humanity is good.

>>51041095
>Humans living 500 years
nono X that's eclipse phase

>>51041095
>All of those are conscious rejections of humanity
It's less focused on the action but the intent behind the action. Killing someone is killing a symbol of what you are trying to pretend you are. This post is your weakest argument. I'd suggest you try a different one

but then again I shouldn't be surprised about who we're talking to

>finally preview Thousand Years of Night
>it looks as good as I wanted it to

THERE'S HOPE

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>>51036810

I don't mind second-hand/used.

But I would prefer it be in English.

>>51041095
>Wow, I guess you're right, the game doesn't at all correlate being a good person with being more Human!
Wow it's almost as if that wasn't the point of my post. YOU claimed that knowledge of your kindred condition (e.g. knowledge of Cruac) should not have an effect on your Humanity. I simply presented you with evidence to the contrary.

Fucking work on your reading skills

>>51041095

Except half of those are not only immoral actions, but also an explicit rejection of Humanity and alienation from its society, in keeping with the other Humanity roll triggers. It also doesn’t nullify that the other triggers exist, no matter how long your list is. Even a simple realization can set off the roll, so it would stand to reason that the bloody, anti-human and slightly Pro-Beast process of learning Cruac would take such a hit on a character's Humanity that it would alter it almost permanently.

The moral stance in Vampire is there, and yes, having a High Humanity can net a player benefits. It's still a Humanist Horror setting. But unlike Masquerade or Requiem 1e, there's a slight shift in having it be less of a Morality meter and more of a psychological measurement.

And again, even if we're working with the old Morality meter version, learning Cruac is a bad thing. Learning it means you have to do things that potentially ping where you are on the Heirarchy of Sin. The rule works as intended no matter the edition you view it from.

>So I rejected Humanity once 500 years ago and now I've lived the last 500 years as a priest, but I'm still inhuman?

Yes. Even putting aside that being a priest doesn't inherently make someone good some sins never vanish or some psychological scars never truly leave, depending on the edition you want to roll with. Being a Vampire means having to live with the consequences of your Unlife.

>>51041095
>It's literally mechanically beneficial
Having Striking Looks is also mechanically beneficial, yet it's not desired by everyone. Learn2reason.

>>51034549
>Mages

Only human when surprised

>>51041581
>Learn2reason
But Anon, that's impossible
We can't even get kids to Learn2Read

>>51042262

>>51041287
We're discussing the Humanity system from Vampire: The Requiem. Vampires can live 500 years. And apparently my morality should be capped because 500 years ago I was a violent pagan, even though I've spent longer than a human lifespan being living a pious and virtuous life.

>>51041367
>Killing someone is killing a symbol of what you are trying to pretend you are.
No, THAT is a pretty weak argument. the book doesn't even remotely imply that.

>>51041532
None of your examples are automatic drops. None of them are inherent caps on Humanity.

>>51041547
>It also doesn’t nullify that the other triggers exist, no matter how long your list is.
My argument is that morality is a component of Humanity.
I listed ways in which morality is a component of Humanity.
> Learning it means you have to do things that potentially ping where you are on the Heirarchy of Sin. The rule works as intended no matter the edition you view it from.
Except that very few things are inherent, no roll drops. Even fewer things permanently cap your Humanity.
In fact, the only thing I can think of that caps morality is Cruac and Sin-eater deaths. Literally the only two things in the book, as far as I'm aware.
>Even putting aside that being a priest doesn't inherently make someone good
This thread is really bad with metaphorical language. I feel like the context in which I was using the term "priest" should have been very clear...

>>51041581
Anon, that's a really shitty argument.

>>51042933
>None of your exampels
Doesn't matter for the point being made. Jezus fucking Chris, you're thickheaded.

>>51042973
From where I'm sitting, you are. Funny, that.

Cruac is one of the very few things that a character can't recover from. There's no real reason for that.
Experiences that make you less human should THREATEN your Humanity, not cut you off from it completely.

>>51043120
To bad you didn't design the game, huh? Else your logic would work. As of now, you're simply in the wrong, both RAW and WAI. But you don't dare admit that for some reason. I bet you are a pain to play a board game with.

>>51042933

>apparently my morality should be capped because 500 years ago I was a violent pagan, even though I've spent longer than a human lifespan living a pious and virtuous life

Yes. The consequences of taking on violent paganism, and then purging that violent paganism, won't ever go away. Forgiveness and redemption are not easily earned in Vampire, and depending on how you interpret things, may not ever be earned at all.

As a Vampire, you're already damned to spreading pain and misery just by your need to survive. The question isn't if you'll sink or swim, it's how far you'll dive just to survive.

>>51043120

>There's no real reason for that. Experiences that make you less human should THREATEN your Humanity, not cut you off from it completely.

The reason is that you explicitly rejected Humanity and committed some potentially shitty things to learn Cruac, a blood magic that you don't even have to learn if you're an Acolyte. If you really want to talk about morality, then that means that there has to be moral points of no return. Cruac is one of those points of no return. You don't get to talk about a game system about morality and then turn around and say that it's not fair that the optional immoral power has a huge ding on the morality meter.

Again, if there's anything to take from what you said, it's that there should be more situations that permanently cap your Humanity, not less, since the mechanic seems to do its job of representing what it means for the character and their nature.

>>51036693
They're not. They just didn't have the wordcount in the 2E cores for them.

>>51038529
Not from the official scenarios. VtM5e has teased that they had a Gehenna that thinned the Elders and destroyed or drove them into hiding, leaving the ancillae and neonates to rule the vampire world, along with a 'war for the graves of the Antediluvians' and a 'Second Inquisition' and a couple of other things. Might be good.

>>51035668
>>51037922
That and the idea that you can be damned because of something that was unwillingly done to you is some hardcore heresy.

>>51041418
Do you want physical or do you care if you have PDFs?

>>51044015
Unbatized babies go to hell right?

>>51039841
>>51039841
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