Would a Space Marine chapter ever defect to the Tau Empire? What

>>51019362
>Would a Space Marine chapter ever defect
No, not really. All the disloyal assholes already fucked off. Besides that, the only force in the galaxy strong enough to sway marines from the Big E is Chaos.

They have no real incentive to join the Tau for any reason.

>>51019362
Defect? Without saying absolutely not, very very unlikely. Space Marines of all stripes don't really care for xeno. As for what would happen if that extremely unlikely situation happened, a bunch of pissed of Marine chapters and Inquisition would probably make short work of them in righteous fury. What would they be like? Dead soon, but they probably wouldn't change much, though they'd have to find a replacement for their weapons they couldn't manufacture ammunition for.

And what possible incentive could there be in defecting to those blue-skinned pussies anyway?

>>51019376

This, more-or-less.

Normal humans defect because of the (xenos lie of) better treatment but Marines either are treated well or (ImpFists) like it rough and dirty already.

No leverage.

>>51019394
An artist who works for geedub once drew a space marine squad all using pulse rifles

I think they would be too proud too. However, many would work alongside the Tau against greater threats.

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>>51019404
And artists who worked on Rugrats drew this, what's your point?

>>51019439
My point is even GW themselves know its stupid for super soldiers to be using inferior human tech.

They have been indoctrinated to be unwaveringly loyal to the Emperor and the only force that can hope to challenge that loyalty is the corruptive power of chaos.
They are, for all sense and purpose, brain washed.

>>51019463
Or just an artist who has a traitorous xeno boner.

>>51019362
>Would a Space Marine chapter ever defect to the Tau Empire?
Theoretically, but not likely. If anyone was going to, it would be someone like the Lamenters who care particularly strongly for civilians.

>What would happen if they did?
They'd be marked as traitors by the imperium, studied by the Tau, and probably kitted out with fusion blasters and the like.

>What would they be like before and after defecting?
As I said, this would have to be a particularly sympathetic faction, as they'd have little personal gain from the defection. However if they were convinced that humans living under Tau were safer from the influences of Chaos and that, were Tau supported and aided, their alliance could deal with more hostile xenos, they might. After the conversion I don't know if anything aside from aesthetics would change within the chapter itself.

>>51019394
>what possible incentive
+6" of range and +1S

>>51019362
No writer would ever reasonably write the setting's darlings defecting to anything but Chaos, so it wouldn't happen.

If it did though, Imperial retribution might very well exterminate the Tau outright. The first Damocles Crusade was launched because the Tau were trading peacefully with outlying Imperial worlds, and friendly contact with the xenos couldn't be tolerated, especially xenos with a subversive diplomatic caste. Considering the Imperium was enraged enough to launch a crusade over that, something as shocking as the Emperor's own holy angels of death defecting would make eliminating all the defectors and crushing the Tau one of the single highest priorities on the Eastern Fringe.

Tau might not even accept Marine defectors purely for how much retribution it might invoke from the Imperials. It's not just poking the sleeping bear, it's tazing the fucking thing.

>>51019376
>What are renegade chapters - the post.

I asked a GW store manager that question. He said that anything can happen in 40K because it was a huge setting and that GW encourages you to forge the narrative. If i want Gue'vesa marines then I am free to have them.

So GW is okay with it.

>>51019467
*ahem*
Soul Drinkers.

>>51019523
>>What are renegade chapters
Chaos space marines that haven't earned any recognition from the chaos gods yet.

>>51019362
probably not. the only way i could think it would be possible was if the marines did not have the hypnotherapy that made them loyal to the imperium. If i remember correctly the only marines who were not csm who lacked the therapy were some of the younger renegade soul drinkers and they didn't turn out well anyway.

>>51019362
Yes, especially if they're one of the unlucky chapters like the Blood Gorgons who have an innate disloyalty flaw.

>>51019362
No.

Killed by Inquisition and/or other Marines.

Dead.

The only thing uniting all Astartes, from the most pious White Consul to the most corrupt Word Bearer, is their utter hate towards xenos. A renegade Marine might throw away his servitude to the Imperium for selfish reasons, but he would never change one master to another, weaker, xeno one.

That being said, there are renegade warbands that fight as mercenaries in exchange for wealth, slaves or whatever. I can imagine them strikig a deal with Tau, although they would definately show their disdain towards them on every possible occasion.

Defection and joining the foul xenos is utterly impossible.

>>51019494
This. I was thinking about a situation where a Space Marine chapter was tied to a particular world and its citizens. Maybe its their homeworld. The world defects to the Tau but rather than beat the world in line, the Chapter lets them do their thing. Either they're weakened, busy with something else or already borderline renegades. The Tau actually help the citizens and still allow worship of the Emperor. When trouble comes to the planet, such as Orks, the Marines find themselves shoulder-to-shoulder with the Tau, fighting to defend the population.

The biggest turning point comes when the Imperium rocks up to bring the world into line. Either the Chapter is declared excommunicate traitoris from the start and they don't really have a choice, or they decide to defend the planet's population against an "unjust attack", the result is the same: the Marines join the Tau to fight against the Imperium.

Now, rejected from the Imperium, the Chapter can choose to go on a penance crusade, where they'd be certainly destroyed. Or they can continue the defend the world with the Tau. An easy choice for an unconventional Chapter.

>>51019510
Both Damocles Crusades ended in (let's be honest) defeat. The Imperium had their opportunity at the first Crusade but decided that the Tyranids were more important. At this point, the Tau are impossible to remove from the Eastern Fringe without leaving the Imperium undefended against Chaos, Tyranids and everything else. They left the mould for long enough and now they can't get it out. Just because a Marine chapter defects does not mean that this would change.

>>51019745

Damocles failes because the Nids WARE a serious threat, wheras Tau ware and still are a pain in the butt that grows more irritating the longer they're left alone. If the story on 40k would progress accroding to the fluff (and I am aware it wont) they would reach a moment when the Imperium would just Exterminatus the fuck out of their key worlds and then left the rest to be eaten by Nids or slaughtered by Orks.

>>51019570

This. You think the diplomatic nicety/legal fiction of "ork snipers" is the worst the =I= can accomplish?

More like 25 goddamn Eversors in boarding torpedos smashing into your Chapter's Apothecarium/gene seed-bank and another 25 Culixi hitting the Librarium.

>>51019803
Exterminatus requires fleet action by the Imperial Navy that the Tau (as shown time and again) can defend against. If the Imperium couldn't destroy Dal'yth, a 1st Sphere Sept World, in the first Crusade then they have absolutely no hope of being able to do it now. Well, they could, but then they'd get fucked by whatever's now not being suppressed by the Imperial Navy.

>>51019834
The Imperium sent four assassins to take out the entire Tau leadership in the second Damocles Crusade. I have a hard time believing that they have the resources to send fifty to deal with a renegade Chapter, especially since there are more deadly (and Chaos-aligned) renegade Chapters running around.

Anyway, the long-short of it is that whilst there is no precendent in the fluff, as >>51019527 said, 40k is a huge setting and it's not outside the realms of possibility that a Marine Chapter could have allied with the Tau and not get instantly curbstomped. The setting is meant to be played around with. You can have Marines following your own minor Chaos God, Orks that worship Tzeentch, an Eldar Genestealer Cult, Oldcrons that follow a complete C'tan on the fringe of the Galaxy, Guardsmen with spider legs. Convert the models, play the game and have fun.

>>51019991

The Chaos chapters are in the warp/daemonspace/not near habitation, the Tau empire by definition has none of these defects.

And the Badab war wasn't literally what I described because Forgeworld has a power-armoured boner.

>>51020015
True. I do like the angle that a renegade chapter will usually fall to Chaos, solely because it's so difficult to survive without the help.

However, a Tau-allied Marine Chapter could be in Tau space which, as the latest books have revealed, is near impenetrable to the point that the Imperium just found it easier to wall them in.

>>51019463
Except its not inferior. On table top the guns yes but marines do have power armour over shitty tau armour and technically their biology is from technology. In fluff boltguns are way better than pulse rifles.

>>51019362
>>51019376
> Space marines are the most Loyal people in the Empire
> would never go to the Tau, despite them being the closest thing to the Federation.
> literally half of the space marines went over to the evilest force in the universe coz LOL space magic

>>51019362
I think it's especially unlikely.

Marines fall to Chaos because everything falls to Chaos, and despite appearances marines are in fact more resistant to Chaos than the average equivalent human.
Defecting to aliens is particularly egregious.

Secondly, Tau don't really have much Marines want or are interested in. Marines are a warrior society obsessed with war and human supremacy in all things. They hold the Emperor to be the perfect man they aspire to and when they crack, they only seem to crack in a twisted reflection of this militant supremacy.

>>51019404
I believe that was for a fanfiction thing where amongst other things the Ultramarines create their own little Imperium and adapt Tau tech.

>>51019803

The Tyranids were basically irrelevant to the ultimate outcome of the Damocles crusade. It's true that those ships were needed elsewhere, but the Crusade had already failed by the time they got word of that. They had lost 1/3rd of their ships on the orbital defenses of Dal'yth (the first properly defended Tau world they came across), the ground war was a mess that was chewing up guardsmen and even costing them space marines, and Tau reinforcement fleets were closing in on them from all sides that if they had been forced to fight in their already weakened state would have annihilated them.

The only difference is that someone up the chain decided those ships dying in vain against the Tyranids was a better use of those lives then them dying in vain against the Tau. Because if they hadn't been ordered to pull out, they would have been slaughtered and everyone involved knew it.

>>51019463
>Crunch is totaly the fluff!

No it is not.
Otherwise the 'Nids would be no thread, and the Tau would field more Riptides than fire warriors.

>>51020191
>I do not get the rules the setting operates on.

>>51019625 pointed it out nicely.

>>51019362

I doubt a whole chapter would, but I could see a handful of marines doing it on their own.

If a group of marines got declared traitors by the Imperium, but still wanted to serve the cause, going to Tau space might be one of their better options.

Think about it. There are a lot of humans living in Tau space, under the heel of the aliens. I imagine the Space Marines rolling in, looking for a place to stay, and setting themselves up as watchdogs to protect the gue'vesa from alien oppression... only to find that things are actually far less oppressive than they are used to.

The Tau want to be buddy buddy with the Imperium, so they would accept the Space Marines with open arms so long as the SM agreed not to start shooting everyone.

In return the marines get a place to crash, refuel and resupply them, and a post to protect humans at. They probably wouldn't care much if the Tau themselves come under attack, but if one of those human populations gets invaded by orks or something the marines respond.

Over time, living close tot he Tau, they might forge a kind of respect with the xenos. Even during Damocles, the Space Marines remarked that for filthy goddamn xenos the Tau were almost pretty alright, since they used honorable tactics, didn't use warp magics and generally were not assholes about the whole thing. Though a large part of that was probably the Tau returning a bunch of fallen Space Marines at the end of the crusade, something that the Marines on-site were pretty damn happy about.

>>51020215
To be fair, what you describe is a retcon.
The oldest version was the crusade grinding to a halt and the 'Nids coming knocking.
So it was either diverting more ressources to the crusade and weakening the defense against the incoming Hive Fleets or pulling out and using ressources of the crusade for defenseive measures.

What gave "pulling out" the upper hand were the Marines who deemed the Tau honorable. At least for being xeno shits.

I the oldest version space battles were not mentioned aside from the Tau using Mantas (at that time also implied to be bigger than now) to halt the advancing Titan legions.

>>51019362
Never happening.

I could possibly see a Marine being swayed by an equivalent human faction. Especially if they had retained some real historical knowledge through their more logical methodology.

It'd still be extremely rare though.

>>51020240
> Man we sure are having trouble coming up with believable personal and political reasons for the favourite sons of the Emperor to turn against him, let's just drop this whole 'character motivation' thing and say they felt the Darkside.

Chaos is just a lazy cop out for GW writers and you know it.

>>51019625
>The only thing uniting all Astartes, from the most pious White Consul to the most corrupt Word Bearer, is their utter hate towards xenos.

Fabius Bile actually served under the haemonculi of Commoragh for a time.

There are Marines so disenchanted with the Imperium that they'll work for xenos. They're just very rare and not often sane.

>>51020304
Angron, Perturabo, Mortarion, Lorgar and Konrad all fell for legit reasons.

>>51020358
>>51020358
They may fallen for legitimate reason but as far as I recall they still all ended up going over to the big C correct me if I'm wrong.

When a space been rebels he *really* rebels. They just don't do anything by half I guess.

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>>51019625
DELET THIS

>>51019527
>He said that anything can happen in 40K because it was a huge setting and that GW encourages you to forge the narrative
...except when they declare it's the end of the world and kill off an entire setting.

>>51024107
But they never did that in 40K?

>>51020343
it was an apprenticeship that went sour hard and fast, it wasn't service.

if fabulous bill's relations with the coven of the 13 scars is the best defecting astartes can manage with xenos, i doubt anyone jumping ship for the tau will do much better

>>51019362
Of the entire Imperium some 1000s of billions of people, Space Marines would be the absolute last to defect to the Tau. They wouldn't even defect if the Emperor died and the humans all voted for Tau leadership.

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>>51024252
>But they never did that in 40k YET

FTFY

>>51019625
>slaves
Did someone say sexy eldar slaves? I coulda sworn someone said sexy space elf slaves

I like the idea of a Renegade Chapter signing to a contract to serve the Tau for a couple centuries in exchange for a world and wargear.
So you'd end up with marines in Tau colors beside a pauldron with their heraldry on. Just counting the days until their contract ends and they don't have to take directions from blueberries.
Skip forward a few decades and some of the Tau are realising the contract is about to expire and the world they gifted is now far behind their borders in their home terrtories. But we're allies now, right?

>>51025348

Yup, I can imagine a warband selling their swords and bolters to Dark Eldar in exchange for sexy Craftworld slaves to do as they see fit.

Too bad Chaos Astartes would probably waste this potential on some sort of ritual, concentrating on Eldar's psychicness instead of sexyness.

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Don't worry. That scenario will look increasingly likely and maybe even common as the Imperium goes to hell, literally.

>>51019439

What. The. Fuck.

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>>51019362
>Would a Space Marine chapter ever defect to the Tau Empire?
Not if he wants to live he wouldn't
>What would happen if they did?
They Emperor would smite them
>What would they be like before and after defecting?
Communist sympathizers followed by Communists.

>>51019362
Oi! Wot wud appen if dey went an join'd us? Wud der be a chap-ta uf ork marines?

>>51019362
What nobody has actually touched on yet is the problems the Astartes would have keeping their equipment maintained under Tau rule. While most of the basic stuff can be replaced or indeed repaired by the Earth Caste, the Tau wouldn't possess the immediate knowledge to fill-in for the Adeptus Mechanicus on things like Archaeotech, Warp-Drives and a lot of fleet based stuff. So the Chapter's going to have to decide between waiting for a few decades for the Earth Caste to figure out how to even maintain their more esoteric shit or otherwise wholesale start replacing stuff with Tau designs, some of which will be inferior and some of which will be superior.

What if the Tau promised to cure some gene seed defects in successor chapters?

>>51031297
How would they? The Tau have a strong technological base but their ceiling isn't really high enough to fix the issues the Magos Biologis can't, the Adeptus Mechanicus still has most of its biotech and performs straight-up space magic on the fly on the flesh.

That being said, even if the Tau could I doubt the Astartes would believe them, or accept outside help in dealing with their own burden.

>>51020120
No? Like... not even slightly.

>>51031382
Depends on the actual use of the weapon, in all fairness. From checking out the morphology, to the fluff on how the weapons actually work and what we've seen neither the Boltgun nor the Pulse Rifle is an objectively superior weapon. The Boltgun is an assault weapon on steroids, the Pulse Rifle is basically a modern day sniper rifle in how its used, both are better at their particular role.

>>51020191
>coz LOL space magic
They fall because chaos can actually offer them things, tempt them in ways the imperium can't.

Renegade marines are marines who have cut their ties of bondage with mankind and grown infatuated with their own personal agency in the galaxy. They are still as completely contemptuous of alien life as before, but now combined with the mentality that servitude is completely beneath them. There is literally nothing the tau can offer them that they didn't already have access to while serving the Emperor.

Like, there's a reason why it's only parasitic infection/complete psychic domination that turns space marines over to alien powers. Aliens a shit in their eyes, regardless of loyalty.

>>51031297
Tau don't really know how to mess with biological shit, much less biomagical shit. That's why all their stuff is mechanical.

>>51020304
> Man we sure are having trouble coming up with believable personal and political reasons for the favourite sons of the Emperor to turn against him, let's just drop this whole 'character motivation' thing and say they felt the Darkside.
Yes. Correct.

You still seem to have trouble understanding the setting.

>>51031472

Except they do. Their entire species have engineered itself over centuries. They even have baby factories.

>>51031438

This. The biggest temptation to a Space Marine is power. Most (successful) Space Marines are recruited from feral worlds (i.e. backwood hicks) because they are instinctual and because they aren't fucking philosophers. The moment they start asking questions about the meaning of life and loyalty to the Emperor is when they walk their own individual paths to either pure faithfulness to the Emperor and His vision of humankind, or to heresy and eternal damnation.

And keep in mind again most of these superpeople aren't fucking bright and will reason in rock paper scissors arguments, despite having superhuman brains. Either they want more power to protect the Imperium of Man, or they want more power for themselves to do whatever. Its that straightforward.

In this context, there is absolutely nothing the Tau could possibly offer to a Chapter. No greater cause because the Imperium is the greatest cause to humankind, no greater war projection power because they can't even into Warp travel, no promise of more battle since they can only afford to launch one grand offensive every couple of years, and no eternal life or elevation to daemonhood or even Slaaneshi orgies.

Take a fucking hint when even Farsight is looking to the wider universe and to the great war which is deciding the fate of the galaxy, currently beyond his reach.

>>51033366

What if they worship technology?

>>51019362

Since the Heresy, Marines are brainwashed as children to prevent them getting ideas other than FOR DA EMPRUH.

>>51019376

>They have no real incentive to join the Tau for any reason.

Wouldn't go that far. Tau have advanced tech and a higher standard of living. Marines defected for way dumber reasons back in the day. EC were basically just offered a round of blowjobs.

>>51033543

Tau don't hand out their fanciest toys like... toys. Compare that to the Admech, where a friendly relationship basically buys you access to the equivalent of a gun show convention.

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>>51020120

>Muh bolter is better than plasm rifles y-you guize

Marine-fags. When will they learn?

>>51033670

>Wouldn't go that far. Tau have advanced tech and a higher standard of living. Marines defected for way dumber reasons back in the day. EC were basically just offered a round of blowjobs.

>Tau have advanced tech
Which basically is as powerful as what the Imperium fields, which is basically nerfed shit compared to the height of their power. Thats not even going into how older Chapters tend to have the fancy advanced Great Crusade era stuff in their armories - in which case why would any Marine ever give a shit when they already have fancy cars in their garages?

>a higher standard of living

For Space Marines? Hah no. They're the equivalent of frat monks who are serviced 24/7 by an endless servitor army. If you're a sphess wolf, you get to drink free booze too. And if you're like some IH tech junkie, you get to have friends forever with servitors and dreadnoughts. Friends who won't ever lie to you or bullshit you.

>EC were basically just offered a round of blowjobs.

How about I toss you in a pit of eternal blowjobs and see how you like it?

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>>51019439
What am I looking at?

>>51033721

They have combi-plasmas and you don't.

>>51033211

Test tube babies and gene modding are two completely different things anon.

>>51033715

You... have that completely ass backwards. Even Gue'vesa get pulse rifles and shit. Whereas, Ad Mech are notoriously secretive and possessive to the point they lock stuff away so well they FORGET about it and will happily sacrifice their own allies just to get a chance to steal some of that sweet, sweet xenos tech.

>>51028531
This image makes me think...

What if instead of Renegade Space Marines joining the Tau, if the Tau manufactured their own Power Armor reproductions for their human auxiliary?

A sort of Chinese counterfeit Space Marine Chapter.

>>51033773
`
>Which basically is as powerful as what the Imperium fields

It's really quite sad just how stubborn and delusional imperium-fags are. This is just flat out refusal to read the most basic tenets of a faction's fluff.

>>51033844

>Even Gue'vesa get pulse rifles and shit.

Your standards are clearly pretty low when it comes to impressive tech.

>Ad Mech are notoriously secretive and possessive to the point they lock stuff away so well they FORGET about it and will happily sacrifice their own allies just to get a chance to steal some of that sweet, sweet xenos tech.

What does that have to do with Forgeworlds basically eternally bound to provide the Adeptus Astartes with free shit? Favored Chapters with special affinities and friendships to Forgeworlds also get bonuses like artificer armor repair.

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There are Space Marine chapters that have defected from the Imperium of Man, but not gone over to Chaos. There are also individual Space Marines who have become dissatisfied with the Imperium, and not turned to Chaos. There aren't many. At least a few are simply pirates.

There are examples of entire chapters ignoring Imperial orders, and chapters that don't HATE XENOS as much as the Imperium wants, or care for innocent civilians more than the Imperium wants.

There are also a few instances where Space Marine chapters have worked with the Tau, with honor, and without brutally murdering them or defecting, as well as a few other instances of Imperials organizations actively working with the Tau. (Picture)

The Tau have recruited human civilians, planetary defense forces, Militarum soldiers without a fight. They've also recruited wounded or defeated enemies recovered from the battlefield.

It is possible that some elements of a Space Marine chapter or even individual rogues might defect to the Tau Empire, though there are no specific examples. One novel did have a Death Watch marine get captured, and the Tau sent in three people to try and convince him to join up. He spit acid in the face of one, I think, and then the whole bunker got its shit kicked in by more deathwatch.

What might happen? Depends on who is doing the writing. Benevolent Happy Time Trusting Federation Tau would probably put them to work. Either put enough of them together to make a whole squad, (think the exact opposite of Death Watch, lol). Or they might become leaders/HQ choices for squads of normie Gue'vesa. Imagine a platoon of Tau Guard with a single Space Marine leading it. Might get a unique suit, or might keep his regular power armor. Would probably get kitted out with more reliable Tau stuff, though they don't have much in the way of stabbies and smashies. If nothing else, they'll probably be called on for PR.

>>51033788

Shame they don't have plasma that doesn't kill them.

>>51033889

Your faction's fluff last read as a pyrrhic victory with catastrophic losses.

>>51033855
Or if they just built knockoff space marines as drones/battlesuits for psychological warfare?

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>>51033901

>Your standards are clearly pretty low when it comes to impressive tech.

Well their standard stuff is better than oh so rare and holy bolters, which despite their status suck fat dick.

>What does that have to do with Forgeworlds basically eternally bound to provide the Adeptus Astartes with free shit?

The shit they want to give away they give away. The things that are actually cool get filed away and forgotten.

>>51033933

Why? Space Marines are just basic infantry that can be killed. Tau forces need better protection or more numbers. Better productions methods will improve the former, improvements in AI will improve the latter.

>>51033920

And? Did that change the fact their tech is better? Also, not my faction. I'm just capable of reading other faction's fluff. Unlike Imperium-fags.

>>51033950

>Well their standard stuff is better than oh so rare and holy bolters, which despite their status suck fat dick.

A galaxy wide empire was built and maintained on the strength of amassed bolter fire.

>The shit they want to give away they give away. The things that are actually cool get filed away and forgotten.

Because they don't need them just to survive.

>>51033780
>And be on model next time or I'll kick your ass, punk!
Artists working on TV cartoons are under an enormous amount of stress and have to pump out a ton of shit in a short amount of time. Presumably this is something the guy did to vent.

>>51033983

>Did that change the fact their tech is better?

Either you are correct and the technological advantage was so minuscule its not even worth noting in the final outcome, or you are incorrect and the final outcome is ultimate proof.

>>51019362
>before
loyalists
>after
exomunicated traitors

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>>51033995

>maintained

Not doing such a great job on that. There was about two seconds where things weren't total shit and then BLAM 10 thousand years of decay.

>Because they don't need them just to survive.

Uh... Sure. It's not like Cadia is literally on fire or anything. Oh...

>>51033933
What do the Tau really fight that would be particularly scared of a Space Marine?

Fielding an auxiliary of "Space Marines" in order to bolster the morale of the human's in Tau Space sounds like something the tricksy Ethereals might even do.

This is of course supposing that nobody notices their Marines are only 6'6" and their armor has a tendency to not block direct bolter fire.

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>>51034009

>Imperium try to destroy Tau
>Fail
>THIS PROVES THE SUPERIORITY OF IMPERIAL TECHNOLOGY

>>51034034

10k years of mankind owning almost all of the galaxy is 10k years of mankind owning almost all of the galaxy. And Cadia isn't a Forgeworld. And the Imperium still has a fighting chance in its darkest hour, while the Tau Empire is split in two and is already in the deathly embrace of a Tyranid invasion.

Just stop, weeb.

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>>51034087

>And Cadia isn't a Forgeworld.

You're not very good with reading comprehension huh? Probably why you seem to think the definitive grimdark setting is HFY. I guess the preface is just too damn subtle about the 'dystopian nightmare with no hope' angle.

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>>51019527
Gue'ron'sha'vesa.

>>51019544
You say that like it wouldn't still be funny for a chapter to slowly turn to Chaos /after/ joining the Tau.

>>51019991
Tau fleet actually has a lot of trouble with Imperial fleets.

>>51031472
Like that time they developed a virus that destroyed part of a hive fleet.

>>51033211
Like those Kroot guys they've studied, who change their genetics after every meal.

>>51033366
>Space Marines will steadfastly hate xenos and steadfastly be humble servants of the Emperor but when they decide to break those rules it's always and only the second on.

>>51033670
Space Marine gets a bump on the noggin, maybe even a psychic bump on the noggin, and forgets his brainwashing.

>>51019362
I am genuinely a tiny bit spooked 'caus I was just about to make this thread.

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>>51019376
>All the disloyal assholes already fucked off
that was well over 10,000 years ago in the 40k timeline. Are you saying that that isn't enough time for new traitors to emerge?

>>51034288
You would think it would spark a story about a space marine chapter that does actually desert to the Tau, but nah, people are too salty about Tau to actually make it happen

I would rock some Reasonable Marines-esq types that have thrown their lot in with the Tau.

Battle suits and marine infantry would be nuts.

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god damn.......
40k fluff threads are awful.
90% of you faggots dont know waht you are talking about.

some nigger saying that tau guns are worse than bolters.... amazing. just... amazing.

>>51033855
http://ukitakumuki.deviantart.com/art/PHOBOS-TACTICA-40K-303084986

That's almost exactly what that pic is, expect its from the IG but I guess the one in the pic defected.

>>51019362
The big mistake on that thread is treating Space Marines like a normal human. They are not only indoctrinate, they don't feel and think like us at all. Their reasons to fall for chaos have nothing comparable with why we would be seduced by chaos.

>>51035382

>i am the only loremaster fear me and obey

you are aware that those you disagree with would count you among your highly exagareted 90%?

>>51033905

>There are also a few instances where Space Marine chapters have worked with the Tau, [...](Picture)

dude those are not Space Marines. Name one example of Adeptus Astartes working with the Tau.

Not shooting them on sight is not "working with"

>>51035785
If I remember correctly, Ultramarine did fight with the tau on one occasion. But they were fighting each other until another bigger threat interfere so it s more like an unexpected alliance on the moment.

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>>51035734
so are you telling me that pulse rifles are no longer S5 AP5 R30 rapid fire?
are you telling me that bolters are no longer S4 AP5 R24 rapidfire?
are you telling me that you think bolters are stronger than pulse rifles?
is that what yout hink?

the entire point of the tau faction is that their technology is badass. and their guns in particular are badass, because their CC is shit.

>>51036023
If you base your opinion on the tabletop stat, space marines are actually god damn victims. It would even have made more sense to use the roleplaying games carac as an argument, even if this game mirroring the fluff accurately is also debattable for the sake of game mechanics.

>>51036137
>space marines are actually god damn victims
that is correct. they are victims.

>>51036023

You ware being general in your statement, hence my reply. I agree with you on Tau havig high-end tech, although you have to remember that fluff=\=crunch. Fluffwise a bolter is a gods damned rapid firing granade launcher, a burst from one ripps apart a few guardsmen at once and shatters concrete cover. In crunch it's a little better than a lasgun.

>>51034087
The main rulebook says that these are the final days of the imperium.

I still have absolutely no idea how so many people completely miss the whole point in the disparity of the AdMech's technological levels compared to the stability of the Tau's, it's like people don't even read all the fluff and just spout the memes /tg/ tells them.

In terms of technological ceiling, being the best the faction can still produce, it goes; Necrons, Eldar, Mechanicus/Dark Mechanicus, then a mish-mash of Orkz, Imperials and Tau at the bottom of the barrel.

However, in terms of technological floor, or the base of what they produce; Necrons, Eldar, Tau/AdMech/DarkMech, Imperium, Orkz.

I swear people in this fandom just love to oversimplify and selectively forget fluff just to make a point. No, the Tau are not more advanced than the AdMech, but they're a damn sight more advanced than the Imperium.

>>51019362
It would take a massive flaw in the Hypo-Indoctrination of said chapter.

Assuming you meant an entire Chapter's worth of men and materiel, rather than just all the individual Marines, it would be the largest single defection since the Badab War.

The ramifications would be incredible as well. Tau Earth Caste with access to the biotech of the Imperium, true Warp Drives and people to use them are the two biggest I can think of.

Plus, that Chapter would instantly become the best equipped in the galaxy. Railguns, Riptides, Marker Lights, etc strapped to everything. Devestator Squads would have Hammerhead Rail Guns!

And let's not even discuss Astartes level bioenhancement applied to Fire Caste warriors.

>>51033812

There's evidence of gene tampering, artificial proteins, and other signs of artificially accelerated evolution.

>>51037190

The imperium doesnt have technology. What it has is Black Boxes from the time Abominable Intelligences run and invented things.

A Grey Knight has been travelling with Farsight. He has warned him of the prophecy and he's teaching him how to subvert his fate.

>>51038062
The Imperium, yes, but there are examples of the Adeptus Mechanicus inventing, modifying and reverse engineering new technology from all over the place, as bogged down by ritual as they are they're not technologically incompetent, at least at the higher levels of Magi.

>>51038106
Their codex outright says that the Admech have long ago lost the ability to truly innovate. It also states that their foundations of knowledge are built on lies and that they are declining into ignorance and ruin with the passage of time.

Will Ultramar ally themselves with the Tau as the Imperium collapses?

>>51038023

If simply posessing a live Space Marine would mean you could copy their genenhancement everybody would be fielding gene-forged supersoldiers and every Imperial Guardsman would be a little below Scout Marine level.

Creation of Space Marines is ancient knowledge, fully understood only by the Emperor.

>>51038156
Apothecaries implant stuff, the Tech Marines attached to the Chapter are involved in growing the organs. Given enough time, Earth Caste could work through the ritual and bullshit and replicate the process.

>>51038119
Yes, and that is true for their general state, however, the definition of true innovation is suspect and, by most points of view would not completely remove the capability for reverse engineering or modification. Further, the fact that they're declining is nothing new, it still doesn't change the fact that they're still capable of altering, reverse engineering or adapting technological principles to new designs.

Finally, general broad statements like that in 40k are always best taken as guidelines and the analysis of the average, as they are virtually always disproven through rare exceptions.

People have put absolutely no thought into that paragraph and take it at face value with no cross-referencing or reasoning, a terrible mistake to make in the categorisation of a setting who's internal consistency is somewhat intentionally and also unintentionally pretty bad.

Isnt the problem that Big E stole the secrets of souls from Chaos to create the Primarhs and the space marines?

>>51038198
I thought he cut a deal with the Chaos Gods and went all nigger when it came time to pay the piper.

>>51019745
>I was thinking about a situation where a Space Marine chapter was tied to a particular world and its citizens.
I once entertained the idea of a tau Space Marine chapter for the sake of it and basically end up doing that. Proud but warp fearing space marines dedicated to their fiefdom get disillusioned of the Imperium.
Their populace face a threat they can't deal with and only the tau answer, and the humans slowly turn to them.
The chapter doesn't really trust the tau, but have no choice as the Imperium turn its back on them and the tau get really generous (partly for interested reasons). In the long term, they fear their future recruits get more and more sympathetic to the tau.
So it would be more about "tau soft power" than anything and all in all I didn't find that a very interesting story to tell.

If I had to make a tau SM I would rather make one old lone SM that has seen to much shit and resign himself to just protect whoever is at bolter range. Maybe with the initial idea that there is an infinity of wars to wage before having to deal with the tau.
So he watch over some (probably western style) backward human world with loose ties to the tau.

recently started a tau army myself by picking up a secondhand group. I did get a codex and the kauyon supplement. However, I have been reading the kauyon from time to time. In the fluff the space marines are almost always a fraction in size and inflict MASSIVE damage to the enemy forces. It really makes no sense as to how the tau supposedly can operate when you have a dude on a motorcycle tear through a whole line of crisis suits and doesnt die

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>>51019439
>mfw

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>>51038119
The problem of the Ad Mech isn't one of ignorance and stupidity, it's one of recovery. Imagine having a porn collection. The greatest the world has ever seen. You spent your entire life building this up.

And then your computer crashes, corrupting your hard drives and leaving you with broken files and a handful of pictures you printed off to test your printer without shame. So what do you do? You try to fix what you lost because you can't move forward without some of that top tier uncensored hentai. Only thing is, by the time you learn barely enough Chinese to read the manual, you've already lost a lot of precious time. You finally get the damn thing to boot up for a bit and you go diving for uncorrupted pics, but every time you try to click a file, there's a chance you'll get something perfectly functional for the recovering fap machine, only partial pictures and distorted pictures that with time, you could possible fix up with memory and improvisation, or completely useless files that you can't use for shit. Now here's the fun part. Nothing is where you left them, and they are scattered all over the file directories. Everytime you enter the directory, there's a chance your computer will crash, or pop something up that would make /d/ blush. It's risky, but you need to do it to make your build up of porn whole again, because you can't draw better pictures without the old ones to work off of.

The admech is declining because they lost all their porn and can't figure out how to draw their favorite hentai the way it used to be. It's a long process of recovery, and because it happened 10k years ago, it's going to be harder and harder to remember what the best anime tits looked like.

It's DFC by the way.

>>51039193
Space Marines, despite how they look, are incredibly old, extremely experienced and super augmented soldiers, on top of the fact that their equipment is a lot more advanced than it seems it's kinda just accepted that their role is to pull off crazy stunts that most other factions couldn't.

The Tau operate, most fundamentally, off of complex and adaptable strategy, even with the new Suits their military just isn't designed to win slug-matches, Shadowsun in particular is famous for her ability to avoid direct engagements with the Guard, because she knows the Tau casualties would be too high if they played gunline simulator.

>>51039226
As an addition to the second point, this is actually demonstrated reasonably well in Mont'ka. While the Tau have the room to move and the ability to incorporate clever, subtle tactics the amount of casualties they perform on the Guard in comparison to their own are horrifying, but the moment the Imperials force the Tau into a defensive line they get smashed (until Farsight turns up.)

I mean, Space Marines in the Tau Empire seem to be an ultimately inefficient use of resources to maintain.

For one thing, Space Marines are the one faction where you SHOULDNT deploy space marines. All their weapons are anti armour, they're incredibly mobile and their technology is on par or better than what even the space marines have.

You could trade guardsmen for fire warriors okay, but theres no scenario where a space marine could kill enough fire warriors to justify deployment.

At least from any fluff or books, it looks like SM even in victory take loses that would take a century to rebuild.

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>>51025348

>>51019362
Yes. One of the goody two-shoes chapters like the Salamanders would be open-minded, tolerant and loving enough to be swayed by the Taus Greater Good agenda.

>>51033905
>chapters that don't HATE XENOS as much as the Imperium wants
This don't exist. Marines are mentally programmed to hate xeno and would only work with them if they are desperate.

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>>51039338
>but theres no scenario where a space marine could kill enough fire warriors to justify deployment
Also if we're going codex fluff, before all the retcons, space marines were one of the primary reasons the initial damocles crusade could last that long on a major sept world. They're also the guys responsible for re-taking Nimbosa after the 3rd sphere expansion.

Tau have a hard time dealing with fast motherfuckers with chainswords. The only real counter is battlesuits, which don't really do them any good in their installations, space stations and command centers. Part of why they tried making breachers after all the setbacks.

>>51038198

Kinda true. The proces of creating Primarchs was scientific and mistical at the same time. They ware sort of manufactured demon princes of order. Space Marines tho, despite having their geneseed as start, are "simply" geneticaly enginered super soldiers.

>>51025348
Why would you want Frail Eldar Anorexics when you could have (relatively) Rare, THICC blueberries with face vaginas to shove your Crozius Arcanum into.

>>51040821
>THICC
There's nothing really suggesting tau are heavier set than humans, and we already know that chapter serfs are 11/10 companions who get work done.

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>>51036137
>>51036581
>Fluffwise a bolter is a gods damned rapid firing granade launcher, a burst from one ripps apart a few guardsmen at once and shatters concrete cover. In crunch it's a little better than a lasgun.
this shows how little understanding of the setting you have.
the fluff says a lasgun is equivalent to a 20th century .50 cal anti material rifle. it is str 3. str 3 can blow up concrete and blow peoples arms off.
a bolter is equivilent to a 20mm. it is str 4. str 4 can blow people in half and blow up conctrete, and pierce through armor.
a pulse rifle is str 5. probably equal to a 30mm. it can blow up light vehicles explode people, and ruin cover too.

this is what a 30mm does in real life:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_x1g8hxexI

>>51041149
It's quite the opposite, in fact, Fire Caste are shorter, have less muscle mass and their muscles are less dense than the average well-built Human specimen, and this is the most muscle-bound/'large' of their castes. The Earth Caste are even shorter but admittedly more 'THICC' in terms of general morphology, but every other Caste is even thinner than Fire.

>>51044421
To be fair, quoting actual tabletop stats is a problem in the first place, as it not only has a really 'jumpy' scaling but is also categorically false in portraying lore equivalencies in some cases. From what we've seen and from the description of actual Pulse Rifles in use, they're not much stronger than Astartes-sized bolters and, in fact, are canonically incapable of actually penetrating Legion-class Power Armour, something that the Boltgun is almost capable of.

The TT is an abstraction and sometimes wrong, from the actual fluff we can determine that the Pusle Rifle is a little bit, but not massively stronger than a legion sized Boltgun (though most Human variants are outclassed) with a longer effective range but a lesser rate of fire and a general morphology that does not permit its effective usage as a medium or shorter ranged weapon.

Neither weapon is objectively superior, the Pulse Rifle hits a little bit harder and is a lot longer ranged, the Legion Boltgun fires a bit faster and is less cumbersome in terms of shape.

I have a fanfiction kicking around in my head of a Space Marine who was left behind, thought dead by his chapter, on a Tau world. The entire story is his "reeducation" by a Tau ethereal, how he resists, and eventually fights alongside the Tau against a common enemy. I don't quite know how to end it, though. A glorious death would be too easy. Maybe he ends up turning on the Tau for a chance to rejoin his chapter, but is rejected by them for grimdark?

I would name it "Astartes of Tau".

>>51031176
There is a Ultramarines book where they discover a Tau battle simulator equipped with marine shaped drones equipped with EXACT copies of all their wargear, so exact that the parts are interchangeable and they use them to repair/resupply.

The only difference was the promethium in the jumppacks was more refined and had superior performance, a Techmarine later copies it and it becomes issued chapterwide.

>>51031297
>>51031359
>>51031472
>>51033211
Tau genetic tech is advanced enough to cure Genestealer implantation in humans, they might be able to fix geneseed defects assuming they are not warp related.

>>51045178
Ehh, sounds like another case of really shite lore to me, but if I can get a source then I suppose it's canon.

>>51045203
>Tau genetic tech is advanced enough to cure Genestealer implantation in humans

Wasn't that from FFG's line, in which the genestealer infection works radically differently? Further, in the recent GSC Codex the Tau take in some hybrids in order to search for a cure in the first place, so it seems like that's been retconned to me (which I have no problem with, Tau should be advanced, sure, but they shouldn't be handwaving the other races' shit with 'muh technology' else risk becoming a sue-faction.)

>>51045178
This kind of shit is what makes the tau the absolute worst part of the setting.

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>>51044596
>some shit tier novel writer/liberal arts major's head canon is more important than the quantifiable power of the the table top stats.

i fucking hate you. the novels are dogshit for anything other than masturbating to your favorite race.

the pulse rifle is a man sized weapon.
the bolter is a marine sized weapon.

if you want to compare like weapons you should compare the bolt gun to some kind of vehicle mounted gun. like a burst cannon

>>51045283
>i fucking hate you. the novels are dogshit for anything other than masturbating to your favorite race.

Not novels, core fluff, in Warzone Damocles and the Codexes the Pulse Rifle specifically can't deal with Power Armour, and doesn't perform much better than the legion-sized Boltguns against any targets we've seen both hit. Not only that, but the Pulse Rifle also has a larger surface area than a Boltgun due to its nature of being a railgun of sorts, so no, the Pulse Rifle actually has the spacial advantage for technological input.

>>51019439
I want more of this...
Like what is the context of it

>>51045318
>AP = STR!
you dumb fucking nigger. get off this board. dont come back.

i want a screen cap of the canon source you are getting your information, because i do not trust information that has passed through the demented filter that is your mind.

>>51045568
I never said armour penetration was strength, I merely pointed out that Pulse Rifles can't deal with Power Armour properly AND from what we've seen they do little more damage to most targets than Legion Boltguns (which blow entire torsos and good chunks of the attached limbs of Guardsmen apart, while the Pulse Rifle often smashes right through one on a direct hit, similar levels of fatality with suggestions of a stronger raw force in the Pulse shot but without the organ-grinding explosion). This is not to say I think the Pulse Rifle doesn't have more power than the Boltgun, in fact I initially said quite the opposite, just that the difference isn't that massive.

As for sources? Check any paragraph involving the Tau vs. Astartes in the Warzone Damocles: Mont'ka and Kauyon books, for starters (I'll post some exact pages in a minute, looking for them now.)

>>51045643
>The three pronged attack closed on the Tau outpost with perfect timing. Bike-mounted hunters jinked through the oncoming pulse rifle fire[...] Even those knocked down by direct hits righted their bikes and rejoined the attack, for their power armour was proof against the small arms fire of the Tau atop the battlements.
>Warzone Damocles: Kauyon, Page 23

More coming, please hold.

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>>51019404
This it? I saw this in the Dornean Heresy stuff awhile back and thought it was pretty neat.

>>51045643
>Red helmed veterans roared out of the skies, along the squadron's Stormtalon gunship, bolt pistols hammering deadly explosions into the jet packs of their battlesuited prey.
>WD: Kauyon, Page 24 (admittedly not good proof for anything, a jetpack is much more vulnerable than armour plating)

There's also fluff of Imperial Knight Heavy Stubbers (which use inferior rounds to Bolters) tearing some Crisis suits apart later on, and some other references to Pulse Rifles punching and staggering, but not penetrating Space Marine armour, would you like me to find more quotes? I'll be honest I'm pretty bad at finding specific parts of sources like this, though I only read the books once.

>>51019362
>Would a Space Marine chapter ever defect to the Tau Empire?
Realistically? Extremely unlikely. Space Marines are VERY heavily indoctrinated to the point that not much outside of Chaos bullshit can make their loyalty to the Imperium waiver.

>>51045234

What's amusing, is that's an even that happens 20 years into the future. That sept is literally 2 years old.

I can see it happening as the Imperium goes bust.

>>51019539
They were fooled into worshiping a Tzeench daemon prince posing as an aspect of the Emperor. Sure, what started them on the path to breaking away from the Imperium was the Mechanicus being dickbags and stealing a sacred relic that the Soul Drinkers were after and endured a huge number of casualties in trying to retrieve only to have it snatched away at the last possible second, but it was largely Chaos fuckery.

>>51045643
>>51045769
>>51046062
nothing in those quotes refutes the rules of the table top game.

>>51046332
I was never actually refuting the rules, I was saying that to consider the Pulse Rifle massively more powerful than the Boltgun is kinda a false premise, and that, beyond the actual capability of an individual round the rules don't really go in depth to the advantages and disadvantages of both weapons. Do recall that scaling also exists beyond the static numbers of the TT game, too, a Heavy Bolter and Pulse Rifle don't hit with the same amount of force, but in terms of abstraction they're both S5. Really, if I were to try and explain it, I'd say the Pulse Rifle likely inhabits the lower end of S5, while the Legion Boltgun the higher end of S4.

Either way, point being, the Pulse Rifle doesn't completely outclass the Boltgun as a weapon and both are good at their own roles, the Pulse Rifle fires slower, hits harder, is longer ranged but is more unwieldy, so it's a better sniper rifle in modern terms, but loses out to the Boltgun as an assault rifle.

>>51046406
In one of the Night Lords books Talos is returning from a failed raid and specifically mentions the firepower of pulse rifles as why they failed.

It was actually quite hilarious:
Talos: Sir, the raid failed
Demon possessed heresy era captain: You fool! You weakling! You have failed me for the last time!!!!BLARGERGGGGHHHARG!
Talos: But they had pulse rifles!
Exalted: Oh shit, why didn't you say so, thank the powers you escaped with your lives!

Granted First Talon are the biggest wimps in the Eye of Terror and the Exalted is the hugest pussy of a possessed marine in known existence but still....

>>51035785
I know that those aren't Space Marines, numbdumb. That is what I said in the part you ellips'd out.