Old School Renaissance General - /osrg/

Has the DCC Lankhmar Box Set been released yet?

>>50988573
Soon.
>http://goodman-games.com/blog/2016/12/26/dcc-lankhmar-is-coming-soon/

So does anyone know what's up with the new City-State of the Invincible Overlord thingy? Is it still a clusterfuck?

>>50988604
It'd better be good after this long wait. Hell, I don't even own core DCC stuff but I'm going to buy the weird dice and everything just for this box set.

I just wanted to ask for help on how to start off a campaign.
Basically, the idea is to have a small region around a megadungeon, with a couple of hooks leading to side dungeons and adventure. I have 2 issues though: how to introduce rumours when the players don't ask for them on their own?
And how to introduce them to a village? How to introduce them to potentially useful NPCs while avoiding any sort of railroad?

>>50989132
Just straight up tell them what services are available in the village and what they can do with them. Obviously rumours can be heard in the tavern, scrolls can be bought from the magic shoppe, adventuring gear from the general store etc.

If the players need help from an NPC, they will ask you about suitable contacts. It's something I personally wouldn't force on the players at all. Let them be proactive.

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>>50989132
Have them overhear a conversation or find a crumpled up note someone tried to throw away. As for the village/city, have them start there. There is no easier way to introduce adventures and NPCs and shit than in a village/city.

>>50989132
>how to introduce rumours when the players don't ask for them on their own?
When the players are in town and say "we do this", you say "while you're there you overhear..."

THACO's Hammer can't be the best OSR podcast because they don't just allow FreddyP's questions to be on the air...they actually have that cunt host the show with them.

Fuck that shit.

>>50990077
Who is FreddyP and why do you dislike him?

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Terrors & Wonders v0.1 here for anyone interested. Added a rule for increasing ability scores based on Bruce Heard's ideas and removed level-dependent variables from the spells.

v0.2 will have cantrip-type abilities for Wizards and Rogue abilities will finally be detailed.

>>50990365
Spazz from the AD&D 2E community who was only later recognized by everyone to be a spazz. Tries to get people banned when he's exposed as being "wrong" about some trivial rules matter. Now he's banned everywhere but THACO's Hammer refuses to denounce him.

>>50989343
>scrolls can be bought from the magic shoppe
God, don't do this. Don't let players buy scrolls just like that, don't have a magic shoppe at all.

You definitely want the player M-Us to have to adventure for their spells, and the same for all other items.

>>50988533
>Best session you've ran lately? Share some highlights
Ran my fiancee, her brother and her sister-in-law a Basic Fantasy game just before New Years.

Twice.

Despite warning that they should not treat the game like later editions of D&D or even as Dragon Age or Skyrim or whatever, they proceeded to try to sleep around with everyone to get what they wanted (the sister-in-law played a slut elf), run head long at any and all monsters (brother) or run down a long and old mine shaft because they heard goblins down it.

Brother got surrounded by orcs and offed, fiancee fell into a spiked pit and sis-in-law fled after throwing all of her money at the oncoming monsters to distract them long enough for an escape.

Still, it was quite a bit of fun.

>>50991065
No one said the spells can be permanently learned from said scrolls.

>>50991168
Eh, except the rules...?
But besides, even so you don't want spellcasters to be able to stack up on cheap single-fire spells they can't cast normally. It throws off the balance.

>>50991168
At that point why not make them one use magic items? Like an orange bead that when thrown explodes into a fireball or a pack of dust that turns you invisible when sprinkled on yourself.

>>50990799
I was waiting for this!

>The new rogue's capstone is a lot better
>You followed my suggestion of swapping cleave and action, cool!
>Cantrips will be in the next version, I want to see how you implement it

Somethings I didn't think the other time:
>initiative will be mind, body or neither?
>what about reaction checks? They are charisma based, will you be cutting them?
>stats to AC?

I'm busy right now, will read it fully soon. I like what I'm seeing tho

>>50991245
>At that point why not make them one use magic items?
Sure. They can be fluffed in any way imaginable.

>>50991266
>You followed my suggestion of swapping cleave and action SURGE*, cool!
Fixed

>>50991233
Why make them cheap? Besides, you don't have to have an infinite number of items for sale.

It seems obvious most people in OSR general are against having mechanics that make 'builds' a thing in OSR games.

But if you allow players to customize the rewards they get when they level up in nonrestrictive ways, is that in itself build-making?

>>50991233
>Eh, except the rules...?
Not in the game I prefer and that's OD&D.

Hey folks

what's a good starting adventure that can be dropped into any generic fantasy setting relatively easily?

>>50991396
>is that in itself build-making?
Yes. It introduces a new type of arbitrary meta game into the mix that in my opinion conflicts pretty strongly with the overall design. If the player seeks rewards in mechanical character building there are plenty of games that offer that kind of tinkering but D&D is not one of them.

>>50991233
Not that guy, but in addition to the OD&D LBBs B/X also skips learning spells from scrolls.

It's really just a thing in AD&D and BECMI.

>>50991496
B1 In Search of the Unknown.

If you've got a Civilization vs. Wilderness thing going on, as is so common in D&D, B2 The Keep on the Borderlands probably fits in just fine.

If you've got vast deserts where There May Or May Not Be Dragons, B4 The Lost City might also work despite its eccentricities.

>>50991266
>>50991287
Hello again.

>Cantrips will be in the next version, I want to see how you implement it
It's basically just limited to 5e's Thaumaturgy as of right now.

>initiative will be mind, body or neither?
I had planned on it being a straight d20 roll. I know, I seem to be a contradictory in my attitude toward ability scores.

>what about reaction checks?
Just a straight 2d8 roll. It's weighted toward unfriendly/indifferent so even then sudden combat isn't guaranteed. I might make the current table only apply to sapient creatures.

>stats to AC?
Not at the moment except for the wizard's mystical defense. I might add a Star Wars RPG-style class AC bonus.

>>50991396
It really depends on the players in question. Some players will try to add flavorful abilities while others will go full munchkin. Viable as a homebrew, not as a general system.

>>50991496
I like B4 Lost City, although its weirdness quotient might make it too un-generic.

File: Lorenzo Santini - Into the Awaroth Woods.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>50991496

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To the guy asking about non-cancer miniature options in the last thread, Ral Partha are the classic go-tos from the 80s and you can find large lot for around $30-50 on eBay all the time or small packages like pic related for ~$5.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Ral-Partha-Miniatures-War-Games/16489/bn_1893485/i.html

They're not detailed molds by any means, but they're tin & pewter and the shoddy production matched with the metal material gives it a very appropriate ancient feel. I wouldn't go with anything else.

>>50991722
>I had planned on it being a straight d20 roll.
I would recommend a smaller dice then, a d10 or even a d6

>Just a straight 2d8 roll.
Could you explain you reasoning? Why? 2d8?

>>50991698
>>50991722

Thanks!

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Thinking of getting this and running it. Is it any good?

>>50992177
General consensus says yes.

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Fighter 'Feats'

Every level, including first level, pick one of these. You can pick one of them multiple times if you want, which stacks the effect.
>Toughness; Improve your AC as though you were armored or as though you had higher dexterity by +1, but cannot exceed the normal limits of AC or armor using this.
>Warcry; Force a morale check on all enemies. Add -1 to their roll each time you pick this.
>Wuxia; If unarmored- Jump 20ft in the air or in any direction. Do impossible feats of coordination or balance; ie fighting on top of reeds. Add +10 ft possible each time you pick this.
>Cleave; Every time you kill an enemy with an excess of damage you can make an attack roll against another enemy to give the remaining damage to them. Each time you pick this you can roll over 1 enemy.
>Charge; Stand there menacingly or ball your fists and scream like Goku, sacrificing your attack. Next round you get +1d6 attacks, another +1d6 each time you take this.
>Parrying; Instead of making an attack add +1d6 to you or another character's AC. Each time you pick this you can extend this protection to another character.
>Withstand; Roll a save whenever you are struck with some powerful force like a dragon's breath, blasting spell, explosive, ogre club, etc. If you make the save you are not moved- Add +1 to save AND reduce damage from these sources by -1 each time you take this.
>Healing Balm; Pick something common but still limited like alcohol, sex, gambling, etc. Whenever you do this you can heal 1 HP. +1 each time you pick this.
>Tooth & Nail; If you are grappled you deal 1 damage per round to the grappled enemy automatically each round. +1 damage per round each time you pick this.
>Surprise; Whenever you are the victim of a sneak attack, you get +1 AC. Whenever you surprise somebody else, you gain +1 to hit.
>Mageblade; Corkscrew your weapon in your hand and make it burst into flame/frost/lightning/sunlight/etc. Deals +1d6 bonus damage but only to enemies weak to it.

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>>50992177
I'm currently running this campaign. Its amazing, gonzo, and all kinds of fun.

My players are currently on the plateau. One's been mutated by a trap and has tentacles. Her body also de-aged to about 12 years old due to a Kabuki-like mask that fused to her face. They murdered a hippo and its baby and felt bad about it. One tried to stab an iron spike into a crocodile head and suffered severely for it. A mud covered African voodoo priestess played mind games with the party's Witch. They narrowly missed being eaten alive by a 3 mile long death-stampede of fireants.

I recommend using this spell supplement along with it.

Here's some dudes great recaps:
http://anxietywizard.blogspot.com/p/die-verboten-schatzgrube.html

>>50992356
I really don't understand the urge of some people to turn old school D&D into Pathfinder.

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>>50992356
I would suggest making it only every odd level as some of these are pretty intense. Still, I really do like these and am stealing them for my games now!

>>50992441

>Pathfinder
>Restrictive feats requiring more feats
>Feats just let you do things anyone should be able to do, like trip or use great weapons
>Fighters still shitty and underpowered

>Birdman Feats
>Cool high flying fighting powers and bonuses
>Nobody requires them, and nobody else can do them
>Makes Fighters overpowered as fuck

>In any way comparable

>>50991864
>I would recommend a smaller dice then, a d10 or even a d6
I'll think about it.

>Could you explain you reasoning?
I feel that Charisma's effects on reaction checks are a bit too artificial. Why would a guard be nonchalant about an intruder just because they speak well or are pretty? Why an orc care about that? Why would a fire beetle?
As for 2d8, I just wanted a broader spread than 2d6 offers.
And now that I think about there could be occasions where Body/Mind/Soul could apply to reaction checks. Food for thought.

As an aside, I really appreciate your questions and comments. They get my noggin joggin'.

>>50992441
Options are fun. Too many options are not fun. There is room for options in an OSR game, but nobody's really discovered how much room.

>>50992356
Why include a mostly useless feat like Healing Balm among all the others?

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>>50991817
>tin & pewter
Absolute shit compared to the power of RALADIUM

http://www.dndlead.com/ral-partha/RP-Monsters500.htm

>>50992562
>Why include a mostly useless feat like Healing Balm among all the others?
Trap options.
I'm pretty sure he just didn't think too hard about it.

>>50992531
They seem perfectly comparable to me.

It just irks me that these threads quite often devolve into homebrew threads that have very little to do with old school D&D. It's very evident that many posters come from modern games like 3.PF and view OSR as a synonym for general homebrewing where everything goes.

It's called Old School Renaissance for a reason. I have nothing against modern game design but I'd rather have that in a separate thread. But that's just me I guess.

>>50992562
>>50992609

>*Indulgence; Pick a vice, such as gambling, sex, booze, or prayer. Fully restore your health if you engage in it for a day. Limit the price of doing this by -100 gold each time you take this. If you get it down to free, you're a rabble rouser who can start a party wherever.

>>50992688

The reason why I wanted to include Fighter feats is because it's just honestly dumb how every class gets them except for the Fighter. And yes, that's all OSR including nuschool OSR like LotFP.

Thieves get to pick their skills.
Clerics get to choose their Gods
Wizards get to find and develop their own unique spelllists

Fighters do not get any of this. I want to make Fighters as variable as anyone else, and because of how many different types of warrior and fighter there are in the entirety of culture and world history there is a lot of room.

>>50991396
personally I have no problems with "builds" or other mechanical methods of character customization in an OSR context, otherwise characters(especially non-magic ones) tend to end up samey, but then almost everyone I know(including myself admittedly) is absolutely horrible at Roleplaying, so they can't really make their characters distinct in that manner, the important thing is that "Builds" need to be implemented in a way that both minimizes restrictions, and has minimal "trap" options

basically I feel people who claim that mechanical forms of character customization aren't OSR are blowing hot wind out of their asses, often because they've been mentally scarred from how 3.5/Pathfinder implemented it badly, and now overreact when any game has even the smallest sign of such systems

>>50992688
honestly 99% of my interest in OSR is due to how simple and easy to modify the systems are, I really don't care about upholding a lot of the "Sacred Cows" of OSR that people bring up if it gets in the way of my enjoyment

>>50992725
>Pick a vice
>prayer

And besides, is there any reason why this has to be exclusive to fighters? Why shouldn't a wizard nerding out over some dusty tomes and a thief committing petty vandalism give them the same effect?

Just replace the default healing rules with those.

>>50992772
Don't fighters normally amass a bunch of cool weapons?
Thieves only pick skills in LotFP IIRC and in that system fighters don't need any buffing.
Clerics choosing their god is normally a one time thing that doesn't really change any game mechanics.
Wizards only get spells that they find and research isn't always reliable.

>>50992772
>Fighters do not get any of this.
I see what you're trying to do, but I don't agree with you that it needs to be done or that there even is a problem that needs fixing.

The feats you listed are frankly speaking overpowered to the point of breaking the game. If that's the game you want to play that's fine, but I wouldn't call it OSR by any stretch of imagination.

I feel like in OSR aside from roleplaying, the best way you differentiate characters of the same class is by the cool magical items you get. Like sure you made another fighter, but this one has boots that let him walk on walls instead of a sword that shoots a beam when you're at full health etc.

>>50992810
>I really don't care about upholding a lot of the "Sacred Cows" of OSR that people bring up if it gets in the way of my enjoyment
Then your interest lies somewhere else than OSR.

>>50992994
Yes, brother, we must persevere in proclaiming the holy truth of The One True AD&D™ as published by TSR, inc.

>>50992943
The old school way to differentiate a character from other characters is through action and adventure, not by choosing from a list of 'feats' or 'powers'. The character is what he does.

>>50992772
there is an easy solution here, which is recognising that the thief class was a mistake, and removing it.

>>50993093
Yeah that's basically roleplaying to me.
That's why I said "aside from that", and gave an example of mechanical difference that isn't really player controlled.

>>50993094
This guy knows what's up.

>>50993093
>not by choosing from a list of 'feats' or 'powers'.
But a big differentiating factor is class, which is literally a list of powers and statistics.

>>50993208
Choosing from, say, three core classes during character generation is not the same thing as getting to choose additional powers as the character gains levels.

>>50993278
It's not the same but it also proves that characters aren't differentiated by just action and adventure, but by player-driven mechanical choices.

You can't say "oldschool means X and not Y" then when confronted with Y in oldschool material say "uh well that doesn't count."

>>50992994
not really, most other systems just don't work for me

>>50993093
too reliant on the player having any roleplaying ability whatsoever, which in reality is near nonexistent in most people

>>50993278
now you're just nitpicking

>>50992389
Could I use it for a more vanilla fantasy setting?

>>50992943

I like this concept but I feel like it should be tied to some kind of narrative mechanic.

Only because if you're going to say that the Fighter should be the only one getting their hands on special weapons and armor, what about the thief? Does the Thief get special privileges when it comes to using invisibility cloaks or masks that let you change your face? What about the Cleric and Wizard? Do they get any special items?

Seems unusual to make an edge case for the Fighters but nobody else.

>>50993399
That was just an example. I'm not saying only fighters get magic items. I AM saying that magic items are a good way for any character to feel different then another character of the same class. Fighters mechanically, in my opinion, don't really need to be buffed.

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Submitting Maze Rats. Has a really fast OSR-style system, but the main plus is the 88 random tables that cover most stuff you'd encounter in a fantasy sandbox, so you can just generate stuff as you go.

>>50993377
>It's not the same but it also proves that characters aren't differentiated by just action and adventure
Alright. Let me rephrase then to maybe make you get it better.

There are no mechanics to differentiate characters of the same class other than ability scores, equipment and experience level. It's the player's playing of the character and the adventures that the character embarks on that make the difference.

It's very easy to break that conscious design by introducing feats that are awarded by gaining experience.

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I had some players that weren't the best at roleplaying, especially when they're making level 1 fighting-doods, so I added this table to character creation. Gave them something to work with that made them distinct that didn't take too long.

>>50993399
>Seems unusual to make an edge case for the Fighters but nobody else.
It's literally been part of D&D from day one - fighters get magic swords, the other classes don't, and magic swords can be way fancier and more powerful with more features and special powers than other weapons.

>>50993382
>too reliant on the player having any roleplaying ability whatsoever
That's just bullshit. It doesn't even have to be in-character roleplaying. Just playing the game and doing stuff is enough.

>>50993570
>There are no mechanics to differentiate characters of the same class other than ability scores, equipment and experience level.

Races
Sub-classes
Kits

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>>50993388
World of the Lost? Probably not. It has too much gonzo that is inherent with it. I mean, the main 'dungeon' is a scientific lab with the possibility of time travelers. There are dinosaurs and robots and crashed UFOs and pteronadon-people and zombies...

However, the city generator is a great tool to build a jungle-kingdom in any setting. Its worth a look through, at the least.

>>50993399
>I feel like it should be tied to some kind of narrative mechanic.
D&D is highly gamist. It's not supposed to make any narrative sense. There are a lot of things that "don't make sense" in D&D if you don't view it purely as a game.

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Dumb question, how Advanced WAS Advanced D&D?

>>50993382
>>50993570
>mechanical differences and role-playing are exclusive and opposing forces

really makes u think

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>>50993676
>Races
>Sub-classes
>Kits

Races ARE classes, though, and what are these sub-classes and kits of which you speak?

>>50993676
Let's rephrase again because apparently you enjoy semantics.

There are no mechanics to differentiate characters of the same type other than ability scores, equipment and experience level.

There's a reason why it was designed like that.

Besides at the time of kits D&D was already happily on its way to becoming a plot-driven railroad RPG like it is today. In other words not old school.

>>50993388
>>50993678
All the gonzo stuff is literally trapped inside a forcefield, so you could still play this in an otherwise regular fantasy world.

>>50992885
>Don't fighters normally amass a bunch of cool weapons?
Unfortunately it takes AD&D to make different weapons really matter instead of "largest damage die you can handle" and well, AD&D weapon vs armor tables. As it is there's no real reason to carry, say, a short sword instead of a long one without going into implementing stuff that isn't in all OSR rulesets like maneuvering room, different damage types and the like.

>>50993093
I sure hope the only RPG you play is core Searchers of the Unknown.

>>50993715
They're not opposing forces but if you introduce new mechanics to the game it's going to change how the game plays. In this case introducing a feat system like in 3.PF is a radical change.

>>50993694

It was called "Advanced" because compared to the original, it was VERY advanced. The original was (from what I know) more of a board game with simple mechanics.

So compared to it's predecessors, it was very advanced, although as more games came out, it was run of the mill.

>>50993785
>a plot-driven railroad RPG like it is today
Tarnowski pls.

>>50993737
Moldvay pls.

>>50993694
It was OD&D with pretty much all of the supplementary rules, unlike Basic, which was OD&D with only a very few of them.

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>>50993694
>mfw I got college credit for running a AD&D campaign to completion

>>50993694
DMDavid has a nice (ongoing) series about the development of AD&D.

It's not too advanced compared to basic, it's just really fiddly. System shock. Exceptional strength. Resurrection survival chance. Alignment languages. Psionics chances. Multi-classing. Dual-classing. At least 6 attribute minimums/maximums per race. Weapon speed. New spells.

>>50993785
AD&D 1e dwarves and elves get bonuses to saving throws and adjustments to ability score, as well as infravision. There literally are mechanics to differentiate two fighters, and one of them is race.

>>50994018

Why are you still arguing with that retard?

It's really not that difficult, some people ITT are purist faggots who don't understand that characterization, mechanical complexity and even the edition of DnD you run OSR with doesn't mean it isn't OSR. You can run fucking DnD 4e as OSR with some changes.

OSR is;
>Exploration based
>Time & Resource management
>High lethality
>Characterization & Control of Character through play

OSR is not;
>Race as class
>Class based at all
>Mechanically derived
>Sacred Cow(s)

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>>50993858
>It was called "Advanced" because compared to the original, it was VERY advanced. The original was (from what I know) more of a board game with simple mechanics.

How often do people shill their retroclone systems ITT?

>>50994104

>opinions

>more opinions

Arguing about what is OSR is pointless. Everybody needs to cut down on the stop liking what I don't like stuff.
But having said that, I totally understand feeling a little fatigue from all the 3e/PF that's been showing up in the threads lately. Some people come to OSR wanting to experience the way things used to be because they genuinely like that play model, while others seem to only be here because they want to take a few bits back to bloated "character build" land.

>>50993967
Storytime?

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>>50994198
I'd say it comes up at least once per thread. There are, however, plenty of people who shill systems for free since they like them.

>>50994198
There's me, Ruinations guy, Thief-world guy, Wolfpacks & Wintersnow girl, Arsenal of the Warrior Princess guy, and I dunno who else on the creator side.

>>50994104
>>50994225
b-but The One True AD&D™

>>50994198
Not often. >>50990799 showed the previous version a few threads ago, one guy kept showing his LotFP-based thieves-only game, The Rogue March, which sadly I absolutely don't have the time to playtest because it looked interesting and my friend also has a deep love for Thief games, but he ain't got the time either.

There was also some anon with rules for his urban campaign in a kinda Sigil-type city but explicitly urban-themed, with mafia and shit. It was called Garden something.

>>50994198
If anyone shills their own retroclone they usually also post a pdf for it.

>>50992356
Yeah, see, your big issue here is that your fighter gets a pittance of special abilities. You should really consider something more like the Thief in The Complete Warlock, where you get a bunch of abilities that are gated off by level so you actually get something relevant. Just make sure that it's less broken than that Samurai class that Playing at the World posted on their blog.


Also, those abilities are wildly out of balance with eachother - Cleave gives an extra attack, but Warcry gives a 50%ish chance of beating an entire encounter outright, Charge is just outright broken, Healing Balm is a trap option, Tooth & Nail is ridiculously situational...

Also, just FYI, but you might want to reconsider putting stuff into Healing Balm that a character could conceivably just take a turn off doing. Carry a bunch of Jack Daniel's-brand healing potions into the dungeon, if you catch my drift. Or, more darkly, make use of your "sex" option after a combat encounter.
Always consider what you're encouraging with your mechanics.

>>50994198
Oh right, also Lamentations of the Prom Queen guy and other stuff people already mentioned.

>>50994383
>Yeah, see, your big issue here is that your fighter gets a pittance of special abilities.

As opposed to most games where they don't get any?

>>50994651
The thing is, though, that if you're going to give them abilities in the first place then you might as well do it right.

Having the same pool of abilities at first level and twentieth is the same kind of chucklefuckery that you get in 5E - by its very nature, the stuff you're getting at level 20 is the last thing you wanted!

Also, having a small amount of abilities means that situational abilities will be completely ignored in favor of the guaranteed ones. See also the Sorcerer and Wizard in 3E, where the Sorcerer needs to take very general spells since they're stuck with them forever but the Wizard is free to take all kinds of situational one-off bullshit since they know no limits.

Also, I just really like the idea of what The Complete Warlock and that dude who wrote that one Samurai article did.

>>50993679
It's really not though.

What good sci-fi OSR systems are there?

>>50994984
Machinations of the Space Princess

I've been thinking of drawing the overland map with squares instead of hexes.
Anyone got any experience with this or got some example maps pulling it off nicely?

>>50994984
Stars without Number?

I'm still confused how SWN is pretty much D&D in space but it isn't OGL.

>>50994984
Bandits and Battlecruisers
Colonial Troopers
Warriors of the Red Planet
Hulks & Horrors
Machinations of the Space Princess
Shards of Tomorrow
Space Madness
Star Wars Galactic Adventures
Seeded Space
White Star
Starships & Spacemen
Stars Without Number
Tales of the Space Princess
Searchers in Space
Space Ryft

For most OSR games you can find basic info and links over at http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/dd-retroclones.html

>>50995034
Old FF games have square-based world maps. Same with DQ, or any of the (S)NES/Genesis/Master System JRPGs.

>>50995068
>>50995042
>>50995004

Thanks, guys!

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>>50994285
Not really worth an extended story time, but I'll give you the rundown

The thing about Academia that most people don't understand is that it's system is not like a menu at McDonalds where you can only get what's on the menu, or like a World of Warcraft Progression Tree where to get Z, you must get prerequisites X and Y first.

If you can make a case to the right people, the system will attempt to accommodate.

In this case, I made a case to the Undergraduate Advisor of the English department, found a Professor to sponsor and oversee this, and got approval from the right people from the upper echelons of the department. This officially classified this as an independent studies course, meaning that at completion, I would get 3 senior level credits in English. In addition, I got four other people to join me (if I could get 7, it would have been it's own full blown course).
Pros:
+Use of the English department meeting room with comfy chairs for a minimum of 3 hours a week.

+Professor was based

+School actually paid for a small chunk of the supplies (paper/pencils/some cheap modules)

+Was able to obtain rule books from the Interlibrary Loan system via the Library (Example: At our bumfuck Uni in the middle of nowhere, we don't have the AD&D core rule book, but some Uni in New York does, so they send it to our library and let us use it for the entire semester)

Cons:
-First Three weeks we were trying to figure out what to do

-Required to write a 10 page report weekly and submit it to based Professor (He wanted documentation that we weren't just playing and actually getting some learnin out of it to cover his ass.)

-ANOTHER End of term paper that was, all combined, about 50 pages long, again to show that we weren't bumfucking around to act as our final.

-Two people just stopped showing up due to sheer frustration

-Some of the books we got from the Interlibrary Loan system were falling apart, some unreadable.

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>>50995034
You can do it, sure, but it's not the best. Even hexes have their problems for overland maps since they don't really come to go rounded numbers (the six mile hex is, to my knowledge, the closest to a good round number of internal square mileage).

But no, I don't have much experience with squares over hexes.

>>50995034
I think the main reason most people don't do this is because traveling along diagonals on a square grid is much faster then traveling across faces of the squares.

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Any other comics besides pic related that just have that osr feel?

Prove me OSR is not just some neckbeards copy/pasting old D&D editions and putting in their own words and house rulesto appease autistic drives.

>>50996031
I think Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser had a comic but I've never read it.

>>50988533

>Best session you've ran lately? Share some highlights

Well I managed to convince some of my co-workers to join me last friday for a game of BFRPG, I'm running morgansfort for them. I'm surprised how into the game they are, good roleplaying too. Creating characters was no sweat at all, we got everything up and running in less than 25 minutes.

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>reading old Dragon issues from the 80s
>one guy writing about how he can play for "years" before gaining a level and that this is a good thing

What did he mean by this?

>>50996083
Prove to me that storygames aren't just contrarian reactions to D&D made appease autistic drives.

>>50992605
>painted ral partha
no taste pleb

>>50996324

Storygames were largely a reaction to the new school games of the 90s, though.

>>50996083
>>50996324
You're both fucking nerds.

GURPS rules.

>What did he mean by this?

"Farewell my friend, I was a thousand times hardcorer than thou."

>>50995092
What were the papers on?

A few threads ago there was a discussion about making all weapons deal 1d6 and all monsters having d6 health. How would I go about implementing that in LL?

>>50996612
The average paper was 1/2 report on what we did and the other 1/2 was over the narrative making process, with emphasis on the mortality rate of characters (we even compared it to games of thrones mortality rate at one point I think, though ours was much higher)

How do I make a OSR blog?

>>50996642

I'm going to assume you mean d6 health hit dice, not d6 health for every monster.

>>50996408
>GURPS
reminds me that I'm going to need to get a copy of the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy box set when that comes out

>>50993092
If you're using house-rules and ignoring published, quality rules then you're a little weenie. If you're playing True AD&D™ you're a real hot dog.

>>50997182
>make a blog
>talk about OSR stuff
>why you hate X
>why you love Y
>what if we did Z

>>50997305
I'm wondering why it took 30 years for GURPS to make it. Seems like Dungeon Fantasy would've gone really well in the 80s-90s.

>>50996083
That's exactly what it is. Only by concatenating all rules published by TSR for the D&D/AD&D games through the summer of 2000 can one truly know "OSR", and Truth itself.

>>50997430
>accepting any material written by WOTC-TSR as canon

Absolutely haram.

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>GURPS

>>50997601
>2017
>not jamming GURPS into your OSR
>not forcing your players to take 10 points worth of disadvantages while receiving no advantages

>>50997601

GURPS has a lot going for it despite being a little unwieldy. Dungeon Fantasy is a lot like TFT which was a brilliant game BITD.

>>50997506
The only excommunicate authors are Dale Donovan, Bill Slavicsek, and Skip Williams.

When WotC came in they slew the evil Lorraine Williams. TSR authors could once again write 1E-style material for 2E. They even ran ads in Dragon Magazine saying "Remember devils? Remember demons? Assassins? THEY'RE BACK BABY!" And pointed you to the new Greyhawk campaign accessories.

>>50997649
Warhammer Fantasy Battle 2nd Edition was a brilliant game BITD.

Someone post all 7 books from The Enemy Within.

>>50997781
Fuck, Fantasy RPG

>>50994198
Im shilling ACKS every thread for free

Play ACKS!

>>50997305
>>50997397
Doesn't BRP (gold book version) have a classic fantasy supplement too?

>>50997846
>ACKS
It has everything: race-as-classES, domain rules, guns, mass combat, not a ton of levels like RC, class creation guidelines, proficiencies (that you can ignore if you want), badass fighters... It has EVERYTHING

>>50997987
don't forget rules for crafting golems and magic items, becoming a lich, spell research and guidelines for making your own spells!

>>50997987
>not a ton of levels like RC
Maybe I'm getting old, but stuff like "level cap at 10" is a selling point for me when it comes to OSR rulesets.

>>50998096
ACKS goes to 14 for humans. Less for demihumans

>>50998096
A big problem is that level 11+ really doesn't change anything. It doesn't feel like a huge increase in power or ability.

>>50997397
>I'm wondering why it took 30 years for GURPS to make it. Seems like Dungeon Fantasy would've gone really well in the 80s-90s.
Dungeon Fantasy has been around for a long time actually, the box set is just them compiling it into a standalone set instead of being spread across a dozen or so books

>>50997846
agreed

>>50997855
I believe it's had several different ones actually

>>50997987
>>50998063
exactly, although when it comes to gun rules I prefer the ones in Fantastic Heroes & Witchery(which also has some other nice stuff to grab)

>>50998096
yeah ACKS' is 14(although most non-human classes cap off between 9 and 12)

>>50998208
Even if there is an increase in power or major changes, I just don't feel I'll ever play a 1-20 campaign. It's just wasted space to me.

>>50998248
>Fantastic Heroes & Witchery
Never read this one, I will check it

>>50997987
>guns
Acks has rules for guns? where? I can't find them in the basic book or players companion

What's a fun, flavorful adventure that would be good for a solo character?

Ruleset will be LL or BFRPG using the Black Streams rules so I can run almost anything with a party of 1. I'm looking for something with a bit of faction play, maybe something with a non-European setting. I've already run B4 for this player. AD&D is fine too.

>>50998317
it's in another book

>>50998353
There's a series of one-player modules for AD&D, and another for Basic. HHQ1-8 and O1-2. Can't speak for quality, though.

>>50997721
What did Donovan, Slavicsek, and Williams do? Slavicsek did Alternity, which is pretty good. Is Dan 'Slade' Henson excommunicate, or is he quality?

>>50991396
I'm ok with players wanting a specific sort of character, I just don't like the concept that "you learned this, now you can never learn that."

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>>50992356
I like it, but its a differant type of game than greitty fantasy.

More anime.

More pathfinder.

Maybe we should start calling these kinds of ideas (which I like) something

like pathfinder 0.5

Alright, i've been running a LotFP campaign. Wanna switch to BFRPG cause of the additional supplements and class/race division. 3 of my players died and will roll up new ones, the other two are still kickin. DO I just give the other players BFRPG sheets and the book to run off of, or do some stat juggling to convert BFRPG characters to LotFP?

>>50998705
Slade is insane, I was just going through the Encyclopedia Magica tables. He's the good stuff. But he'll run wild on you. Everything has even chances..even chance to find a magic long sword as a magic kukri knife. Odds all messed up to get special magic items. But that's what it is, and what it does. He's got people walking around the inside of Realmspace's sphere like some Oddworld caravan. It's good stuff in all.

The other three made the evil parts of the "black books." They bound them with duplicated pages, unsaleable garbage, and stuck everyone with it. They didn't care about the product.

Slavicsek - maker of rules for other game systems. Not knowledgeable in AD&D, they had him making up that Skills & Powers with...

Dale Donovan - maker of rules for Marvel Super heroes. Not that knowledgeable in AD&D. Also other work is Cult of the Dragon, which is mostly just copied from Ed Greenwood articles in Dragon Magazine. He edits well enough though.

Skip Williams. Everyone hates the Sage. Hate him more when he sells you a defective book. He was in on that black book nonsense wrist deep, with High-Level Powers and such.

L. Richard Baker III is the only thing that can redeem one of those black covers. Only authorship can shine the light of Truth through the oppression of the black, the false. So anything he made in Spells & Magic or Combat & Tactics is good, but Skip Williams must have screwed whatever's bad in Spells & Magic and Combat & Tactics with his co-authorship.

The only real casualty in all of this, since CotD is canon by means of Ed Greenwood's true authorship and Donovan simply being given writer credit (as he probably was when he edited Slavicsek's insane Skills & Powers "fresh take" on the rules), is The Axe of the Dwarvish Lords.

And Skip Williams gave the original Sage, Jean Wells, a case of STDs so bad her head blew off. Back in the old TSR house.

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I've been thinking a lot about the oldschool alignment thing and tying it to worldbuilding. I think it's certainly very interesting and I kind of liked the idea of making the races off of them.

The first race, humanity, is based primarily off law. Obviously humans are very lawful; they build towns, create empires, pay taxes and so on.

Then you have Chaos, which has grown on me the idea to add in Beastmen. These Beastmen are a mix of Warhammer beastmen, the Broo, among other things and severely edged down. Basically imagine a humanoid animal creature that can breed with near anything and create weird chimeras based on their traits. Beastmen can propagate with a cow, or a human, or other Beastmen so they are notoriously hard to stamp out. But plenty still live in the 'lawful' society in the same way some humans live in the 'Chaotic' society.

However for this I kind of want to make a Neutral race to go along with both of them but I'm not sure exactly what to pick. Additionally I want to know if the Beastmen seem too edgy or evil to use as a playable race in the game, I don't think so.

>>50999214
>Neutral
elves
they don't build empires and create laws, but they aren't wild and weird.

>>50999214
Ditch alignment.

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>>50999300

>>50999214
>Obviously humans are very chaotic; they destroy towns, create revolts, take what they can while nobody's looking and so on.

>>50999325
Naw, but f'real. BFRPG does it and no one even noticed! LotFP managed to include it in the most logical way possible.

>>50999300
chaos vs order alignment is cool and I won't hear anyone say otherwise.

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>>50999199

>>50999059
>I like it, but its a different type of game than gritty fantasy.
not everything OSR has to be gritty fantasy, indeed we have more than enough of that, using the OSR rules base to explore other genres is something that still has a lot that can be done with

>>50999371
What's that orange version like?

>>50999517

It's in the Trove, read it yourself.

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>>50999517
RARE BOOK INCOMING WORTH $3000 DOLLARS

>>50999199
S&P is Niles and Donovan.

Booting Slavicsek also gets rid of Harbinger House, Deva Spark, and Nightmare Lands.

>>50999517
Not as good as the green one.

>>50999199
If S&P didn't have huge balance problems, would people still hate it?

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>>50999561
orange 4 lyfe boi

>>50999547
I like this girl already. I bet she wasn't even fat.

>>50999547
>>50999534
Do we have other books by her?

>>50999547
>1 page in
>already centauress side boob
noice

>>50999666
Did you read that article?

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>>50999675
That's in the green one, too. Attached for comparison.

>>50999737
so centauress sideboob is okay but a litle bit of SM is bad?
the 80s were a weird time

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>>50999737
>p26

>>50993831
I play a relatively simple game, but I sure as hell have rules about allowing big weapons in a small corridor.

>>50994198
I'll start shilling my system once its finished

>>50999363
I like it, but it really only works when humans are evenlay balanced between both

>>50999957
in the original inspiration for the chaos vs law thing, 3 hearts and 3 lions, humans were law, while fae and shit where chaos.

Law was always meant to represent civilization.

>>50999549
Niles as in "100th-level PCs guise" Bloodstone faggit Douglas Moonshae novel bitch?

Slavicsek took credit for "revised" psionics system which is shit and L. Richard Baker III is a Real Man and made The Will and the Way Real Man psionics.

>>51000016
Niles as in 'quality Maztican produce'.

>>51000016
>>51000050
Also Niles as in Dungeoneer's Suvival Guide, X3, B5, CM1, City of Greyhawk box set, and umpteen million Dragonlance novels (and some of the modules).

>>50994903
It is and that's a fact.

>>50996642
You would need to get rid of the majority of monster attack routines like claw/claw/bite too and give them only one attack. Check out how 3LBB handles monsters.

>>50993567
Magic in Maze Rats is fun, but combat is shitty. After the first few death, all the players were rolling mages and none of them wanted to play a fighter ever again.

Anyone got any of the new ACKS stuff that's come out lately? (the Axioms issues, Lairs and Encounters, Guns of War, Sinister Stone of Sakkara, the Auran Empire Primer) Is it worth seeking out/requesting?

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>>50991396
I've have added a few "feats" (that they buy for points) that the players can choose from instead of having a magical +3 sword so that tey can get that bonus some where else, like:

Weapon Specialization: +2 to attacks with choosen weapon group.

But i have alos added subclasses that the players can choose if they like where one feat allows the M-U to create magical potions (cost gold and time to make and have a chance of failure during the making) like an alchemist.

I have sloa added some funny non combat oriented feats like:

Lucky: May re-roll one Save/Attack/Ability check per day. (cost alot less then the other feats)

>>50993603
Nice!

>>51001202
>ne feat allows the M-U to create magical potions
in ACKS M-U can do that by reaching level 5!
Just another reason to play ACKS

>>51001299
Can't they do that in AD&D as well?

>>50991396
I kinda like two ways of doing this for OSR. First one is relying purely on DM's style but usually when someone has been through plenty of weird shit he accumulates various abilities.

Second one is either wacky random like Zak Smith's variant classes or something really simple like character points for mundane characters in Ambition & Avarice. You can improve stuff like your saves, your hp but it all stays in the class framework without adding any feats.

>>51001202
>non combat oriented
>re-roll one Save/Attack/Ability
>Save/Attack/Ability
>cost alot less then the other feats

wew lad

>>51001313
I'm pretty sure AD&D has rules for making magic items but I'm not familiar with them at all.

50 ways to prepare spells guy here.

I'm looking to do another similar list, including ideas such as 50 ways to fluff AC or 50 ways to fluff magic missile or something similar.

Anyone have a request on what list to make next?

>>51001202
>re-roll one Save
>not literally the best feat

dude
dude rerolling that save vs death?
I'd rather have that feat than a permanent +4 damage bonus

>>51001000
I bought the first two issues of Axioms, first one is actually really good, really expands on the ways you can create magic using classes

second issue is unfortunately very flawed, it tries to give us rules on making Beastmen classes, but has several things that cripple it(much like how the Monstrous Humanoid characters in Orcs of Thar were pretty much completely useless when compared to standard BX/BECMI/RC D&D characters), like instead of allowing Beastmen classes to be made with standard magic using aspects like Human and Demi-Human ones, they're forced to use an incredibly limited and barely functional Shaman/Witch-Doctor system, also they only approximately 3 or 4 of the Beastmen races(Orcs, Goblins, Bugbears, and Kobolds) so it's not really worth using at all, be better off homebrewing your own set of rules to allow for Beastmen characters(it's really weird they bungled this so badly when they included a good way to handle a Monstrous Humanoid race with the Thrassians in the Player's Companion)

also Guns of War is incredibly limited in what it covers, use the gun rules and equipment from Fantastic Heroes & Witchery instead

>>51001388
Sounds like a similar problem to the Complete Book of Humanoids for 2e, with its Shaman class that most of the races got instead of Mage or Cleric.

>>51001342
Well we dont use instat death if you fail a deth saving throw, and you can still fail on the reroll. It looks good on the paper but it's meh when playing with it because you can still fail on the re-roll. When we have played with it it haven't saved any player from any important shit, it's mostly been good for CHA reaction rolls and sneak/hide.

>>51001332
Not related, but I would be eternally greatful for 50 interesting area elements useful in combat (traps, terrain, objects and such)

>>51001531

Sure.

>>51001402
yup same sort of problem

>>51001332
>50 ways to fluff AC
This is insane and outright ridiculous.
Do it.

>>51001332
Seconding this guy >>51001834

Am I going insane? I distinctly remember a version of Swords & Sorcery which used races and classes but according to the internet it doesn't and has never existed...

>>51001857
You mean Swords & Wizardry?

>>51001992
Yes, I derp'd. My point still stands, though.

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>>51001531

Here you go.

>>50999363
I like WHFRP's Law - Good - Neutral - Evil - Chaos alignment system myself, especially because fuck the gods of law.

but mostly LNC is the way to go.

>>51001857
You mean race-as-class? Because Swords & Wizardry *is* race and class.

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>>50988533

What's an OSR game with a combat system that isn't narrative shit?

I actually like muh battlemaps and strategy and stuff.

>>51002807
D&D 4e

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>>51002823

But I don't think that's OSR

>>51002807
>>51002823
>>51002840
It's not OSR, but Gamma World 7e is p. light and fun and has battlemaps and shit.

It also has 3d6-in-order (except for the key stats for your classes (which are randomly rolled and some of which are races))

It does have a stupid CCG thing that you can safely ignore and just use the cards it comes with, or download the full set, or just not use them. Random mutations because of quantum, basically.

D&D 5e should have been based on Gamma World 7e. It should have come in a red box, and had you roll d20 twice on a table listing races and classes, so you could be a fighter mage or a cleric elf or an elf dwarf.

It should also have only gone up to level 10 because fuck defaulting to 20 levels, just have a second box that adds realm play up to 15 and a third one that adds epic shit up to 20 if you want.

basically gamma world 7e is good and cool

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>>51002840
Current edition is 5e therefore all older editions are "old school"

that's how it works right?

>>51002807
Define "narrative shit" because that just reminds me of Dungeon World which isn't considered OSR.

You can play OSR with battle maps, and even if you didn't, their can still be a lot of strategy involved. You don't need flanking or 27 attacks of opportunity to employ strategy.

>>51002882
while all this is true, 5e would never be like Gamma World because 5e was made by 3aboos

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>>51002177
Senpai, you're this thread's treasure and I have to proclaim my utter love.

Thanks.

>>51002883
ree

5e implies descent from 1e which is ad&d trash, the bad parts of old school

do not play d&ds with numbers maybe?

>>51002901
I know

I know :(

and to think people thought "maybe mike mearls will be good and cool, after all monte cook was the most 3e guy and he's not running the show!" and then . . .

>>51002807
AD&D works, I suppose. It's got some detail if you want to get down to it, but I doubt many actually played it with all the bits and bobs in place.

I mean, fuck, it has facing and zones of control and required space and all kinds of wargamey shit.

OD&D with Chainmail is also literally a wargame once combat starts, but it's not really as tactical as something like 4E. It's really just shines for large-scale battles with multiple groups, since melee is so quickly resolved.

>>51002921
Him being in the lead for the worst bits of Essentials really should have been a warning sign.

>>51002907
But people like to call OD&D 0e, and that one's rad. (Sometimes that's the same people that call BECMI OD&D, but you take what you can get.)

>>51002921
those people never read 4e Essentials, I guess

>>51002756
Actually, Swords & Wizardry core separates them. Races have class limitations, but it's not like in earlier games where Dwarf was your actual class. Same for Whitebox, IIRC.

>>51002989
>>51003001
Didn't he make the 4e Essentials line specifically to kill 4e? Or was I lied to?

>>51003013

>>51002756 said race _and_ class.

Also, "earlier games" didn't have race-as-class, Moldvay introduced the concept in Basic D&D. S&W, being OD&D clone, emulates an earlier version.

>>51003018
there's some debate there

personally I don't believe it, because that's way too forward-thinking for mikey boy

I think he just honestly believed that it was the right move to take away all the fighters' toys because 3e taught him that in REAL D&D only spellcaster can have nice things

>>51002807
Depending on your tolerance for d20-style combat, I would recommend Fantastic Heroes & Witchery because it sorta combines AD&D and d20 styles. There's plenty of definitive combat rules along the lines of 3e (and the whole system draws upon d20) but at the same time a lot more breathing room which reminds you of AD&D if only it wasn't such a clusterfuck.

Depending on your tolerance for crunchy what-the-fuck systems, I would recommend Hackmaster 5e which is definitely interesting in that regard but makes you fail those Sanity checks easily.

If going tactical, I would unironically recommend Strike! because it has inept non-combat system which means you can bolt on any OSR-style structure outside of combat. Although class / role structure will make the whole thing fucking weird.

>>51002989
>Him being in the lead for the worst bits of Essentials really should have been a warning sign.
He also wrote the shittiest modules 4e had, but no-one noticed until it was too late.

I like 4e, when it's fixed and working. It's not OSR, but it's a better of a lot better than most modern editions of D&D at being a fantasy roleplaying game, at least partly because of where it pulls away from the trashier bits of 2e/3e.

It just needed to have better maths from earlier on, maybe a 4.5 with that included. The virtual tabletop guy not killing his wife and himself or whatever happened there might also have helped, but to be honest if your project can't survive without you, it's being shittily run anyway - wotc online was always a fucking mess.

>>51003202
>He also wrote the shittiest modules 4e had, but no-one noticed until it was too late.
Probably because most of them were shit in general!

Fuck, did they even have any good ones before Essentials? I know that people swear by the ones in the DM's Kit/Monster Vault and the Manor, but I've never heard anything good about the earlier stuff.
Especially not HPE.

>>51003202
There's always compromises when you're working for a trading card publisher that works for a toy conglomerate. The good TSR/WotC modules that do exist are a surprising exception.

I think the whole OSR is sort of a backlash against games that are produced that way. At some point in the 2000's, a bunch of people got the same idea that they'd rather play the funky old booklets designed by a shoe salesman in Wisconsin than buy another bloated pile of lowest common denominator focus grouped crap.

>>51003376
>There's always compromises when you're working for a trading card publisher that works for a toy conglomerate.
Ehhh, Hasbro seem really hands-off, mostly, and Wizards don't seem too keen on D&D using cards, in case its design team somehow infect the Magic people and they start buffing Blue to the heavens while adding a new colour for mundane planeswalkers who just hit things with swords and don't get to cast good spells.

Them finally crossing the streams with fluffbooks and light conversion rules is a worrying sign.

>>51003512
>Them finally crossing the streams with fluffbooks and light conversion rules is a worrying sign.
I wouldn't say that - it might actually be a good sign, since all the actually good game designers get leeched off the D&D team to go to the actual moneymaker (Magic: the Gathering). Getting some backflow would be good for the game, as unlikely as it is.

Then again, the last time they got the idea to incorporate MtG stuff in D&D was when they came up with the idea of trap feats in 3E. Ivory Tower Game Design mentioned it, IIRC, alongside some serious misunderstandings of the purpose of "Timmy" cards in MtG.

S&W Tome Of Horrors is a truly great bestiary. A bit of describing, a fleshed-out plothook to go with it, and an eye-candy of an illustration for almost every creature. [spoilers]Massive bonus points for having wannabe Cenobites in it. That was a really pleasant surprise.[/spoiler]

Are there any more stuff like that? Most OSR bestiaries seem to be just a long lists of statblocks...

>>51003601
It's not OSR as much as actual old-school, but check out the 2E Monstrous Compendium/Manual.

If it's currently working (the server's usually pretty bad), you can also check out some of those here:
>http://www.lomion.de/cmm/_index.php

It's funny how comparatively nice /osrg/ is to 4e when pretty much every single OSR blogger (grognardia guy, goblin punch guy, hackslashmaster guy, etc) wrote huge rants on how 4e was the worst thing ever and not a real RPG

though some don't even believe that D&D3.x was unbalanced

>>51003601
>>51003631
I really love 2e's monster format and fluff.

>>51003715
we're not NICE, though

we just recognize all the places where 4e fucked up and are ready to talk about them without ranting about how that particular edition was the one that spit on Gary's grave and slapped the true fans in the face and ruined D&D forever, for real you guys!

probably because a lot of us saw the same shit with 3e and AD&D 2e and even AD&D (which was a total cash grab that killed the ONE TRUE SPIRIT of D&D forever you guys, I'm serious here, long live Arneson)

>>51003715
To be honest, those rants kind of turned me off those guys.

But then again, I'm mostly here for the historic interest in OD&D and mostly just read weird-ass RPGs without ever getting a game.
Jenna Moran's never going to finish Wisher, Theurgist, Fatalist, is she?

>>51003763
Because we can see how AD&D and 3e were terrible D&Ds, we're kinder towards an edition that at least tried to fix flaws, even if it was in a direction we didn't care for.

>>51003767
I believe in Dr Moran, one day she will save us all, she is seriously the best.

>>51003715

the OSR never got invested in that particular edition war, so we can look at 4e for what it is rather than whatever boogeyman some people imagine it to be

>>51003763
>we're not NICE, though
which is why I said "comparatively"

>>51003767
>To be honest, those rants kind of turned me off those guys.
same here. Like, I can accept someone saying "modern D&D is shit"
but the same person saying "D&D 3e is a-ok but 4e is the worst thing ever" makes me think they're idiots. It kind of cast a bad light on everything else they said from that point on.

>>51003763
>(which was a total cash grab that killed the ONE TRUE SPIRIT of D&D forever you guys, I'm serious here, long live Arneson)
Something something Gygax screwed the pooch by messing up Arneson's vision in the LBBs, something something Beyond This Point be Dragons.

Seriously, though, it's a tragedy that some of the fun weird-ass stuff was cut in the OD&D->AD&D transition. Those castle denizens charts were never seen again. I want my random wilderness magic-users to have Balrog manservants and the Lord to have a unit of griffon riders, dammit.

>>51002921
>and to think people thought "maybe mike mearls will be good and cool, after all monte cook was the most 3e guy and he's not running the show!" and then . . .

I confess I thought so, mostly because I wasn't aware of how badly Essentials screwed the pooch and because when I was deepest into d20 stuff I really liked Iron Heroes.

Now I really wonder if IH wasn't ghostwritten.

>>51003715
>>51003832
>>51003820
Yeah, I don't understand how grogs can say 3.x is good and 4e is bad. I guess those are the guys who bought the original DCC material:

>Remember the good old days, when adventures were underground, NPCs were there to be killed, and the finale of every dungeon was the dragon on the 20th level? Those days are back. Dungeon Crawl Classics don't waste your time with long-winded speeches, weird campaign settings, or NPCs who aren't meant to be killed. Each adventure is 100% good, solid dungeon crawl, with the monsters you know, the traps you fear, and the secret doors you know are there somewhere.

Ugh, was it DCC where the guy was all "omg you guys it's wonderful I had an artist do a picture of us burning a huge pile of 4e books for the new printing of dccrpg!"

I mean, dude, that's just pathetic, but even more so coming from a company built on 3e.

>>51003911
Original DCC stuff was intended for 3,5, so, duuuuh.

>>51003949
Anyway, please forgive my ranting in exchange for some classic joesky

https://joeskythedungeonbrawler.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/hears-your-stinkning-barbarian/

LEVELIGN UP: IT TAKES A SOMETHING EXTRA AS THE BARBAR LEARNS HIS WAY AROUND THE WORLD, SO DO THIS THINGS BEFORE YOU CAN MAEKTHE NEW L

EVEL:

BEFORE 2ND – KILL SOMEONE WITH BEAR HANDS

BEFROE 3RD – TAKE ON ENTIRE BAR IN BRAWL (AND WIN!!!)

BEFORE 4 – MAKE A NEW LOINCLOTH FROM FUR OF MONSTER AT LEAST 8HD (THE OLD ONE IS SUPER SMELLY!!)

BEFORE 5TH – BURN DOWN WHOLE VILLIGE

BEFORE 6TH – STEAL A GEM WORTH AT LEAST 50000GP, THEN LOSE IT LIKE A DOPE

BEFORE 7TH – BONE A QUEEN & THE KING FINDS OUT!!!!!

8TH – SMACK AROUND A GOD

BEFORE 9TH – MAKE A BIG PIRAMID FROM HEADS

BFORE 10 – CONKER A CITY

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>>51003911
>Dungeon Crawl Classics don't waste your time with weird campaign settings

>>51003991
>MOST BARBARIANS ARE DUDES- A GIRL CAN BE A BARBARIAIN AS LONG AS SHE HAS A PENUS.

Oh boy. "Dare you enter...?", right?

>>51003911
>>Remember the good old days, when adventures were underground, NPCs were there to be killed, and the finale of every dungeon was the dragon on the 20th level? Those days are back. Dungeon Crawl Classics don't waste your time with long-winded speeches, weird campaign settings, or NPCs who aren't meant to be killed. Each adventure is 100% good, solid dungeon crawl, with the monsters you know, the traps you fear, and the secret doors you know are there somewhere.
Sounds like 3E's "Back to the Dungeon" slogan.

>>51003601
Fuck the actual system, but Hackmaster's Hacklopedia of Beasts has some nice, long descriptions. It can be a bit edgy at times though, if that bothers you.

>>51004020
Friend, everyone should be proud to enter Joesky's magical realm.

>>51003995
Technically they are right. It's dungeons that are going full gonzo, not an entire setting.

In fact... are there even any DCC setting books?

>>51003991
>BEFORE 7TH – BONE A QUEEN & THE KING FINDS OUT!!!!!

the best one

>>51004086
and not because "lol cuck meme" but because it requires that THE KING FINDS OUT!!!!! which just tells you everything you need to know about a BARBAR's place in the story

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>>51004054
https://joeskythedungeonbrawler.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/letter-c-is-for-coloring-insome-boobs-vaginers/

I HAEV ONLY ONE OF TH

E LITTLE BROWN BOOKS…………………MAYBE IT IS A FIRST EDITION AND WORTH $$$$$$$$$$$$ BUT I CANNOT CELL IT, BECASUE WHY? BECAUSE WHY IT IS ELDRITCH WIZARDS WITH THE SACRIFICE CHICK ON FRONT AND I DREW IN A BIG MUFF PLUS NIPPLE ON BOOB (SIDEVIEW). A SAME TACTIC WAS USE ON MY MONSTER MANUEL. BUT IM NOT A GOOD ARTISTS ANDT HE ONLY PEN I HAD IS A GIANT BLACK SHARPEY, SO THE MUFFS ARE HUGE LIKE EACH GIRL IS SIT ON A DIRE WOLF AND EVEN THE NEXT PAGE HAS A BLACK TRIANKLE ON IT FROM INK WENT ALL-THE-WAY THROUWE.

DID GIRLS & GAY DUDES DRAW BIG WEENERS ON THE GUY MONSTERS? IF SO THEN WE SHOULD COMBINED ARE BOOKS AND MAKE ONE BIG XXX MONSTER MANUEL WITH BOOBS+MUFFS+DONGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Since it's grog dumping time, something that really got me was that whole... disembodied mechanics? Disassociated? D&D started by making characters arbitrarily stronger as they dug up loot from dank dungeons and that had, you know, hit points - but apparently up to 3.x D&D was this wise, all-encompassing game that made fucking GURPS look like some fluffy narrative storygame until evil 4E came with its wily MMO ways and started shouting severed hands back into place.

>>51003991
>7-9 LOSE CANNON WIZARD: ALWAYS DRUNK 75% OF TIME
Yes please

Also, this guy seems to be a "beer & pretzels DnD" incarnate. Thanks for the link.

>>51004114
This really bugs me because that piece of jargon started with the Alexandrian, who's done some good, insightful posts that have made D&D a better experience for me... but then he's just such a mess at some things.

>>51004067
The Chained Coffin and Terror on Purple Planet are settings, right?

>>51004114
>apparently up to 3.x D&D was this wise, all-encompassing game that made fucking GURPS look like some fluffy narrative storygame until evil 4E came with its wily MMO ways and started shouting severed hands back into place.
Which is totally unrealistic. Everyone knows the only way to reattach severed arms is clerical healing, or just taking it easy and getting some good bed-rest, maybe some herbs.

>>51004238
Getting your hand cut off doesn't necessarily indicate physical injury. It could represent the effects of fatigue, which could be remedied by a good night's sleep. This whole "bodily dismemberment is meat damage" thing that's been going around is cancer to the D&D experience. Cancer that could be healed with bed rest.

>>51004583
>Getting your hand cut off doesn't necessarily indicate physical injury.
...you meant "losing HP doesn't necessarily indicate physical injury", right?

>>51004824
getting your hand cut off is merely spiritual. A few prayers from a local cleric and he'll fix you right up.

>>51004824
Then again having your limbs fall off whenever you take damage 25% of your total HP would be pretty funny - especially if you could reattach them by bed rest alone.

>>51004869
For a knockoff Bionicle game, maybe?

>>51004114
The thing is that disassociated mechanics =/= abstraction.

For example, it's assumed characters do a lot of sneaking, fighting, talking and whatnot before they get the loot. Saving throw categories are fucking weird but they describe the effect and the way the character was protected is left to you. It's also assumed that when you hit something, you can hit it again in a similar way. And if you have a fireball, you can use it any situation you want, not just in combat.

Look, D&D already asks a whole lot in terms of "treat me like a game folks, not a simulation". Tying combat resources which are universal for each and every class to basically purely narrative structure AND then making the combat the sole focus of the game doesn't help. Makes for a good anime-high fantasy tactical adventure though.

>>51004869
OD&D's Supplement II hit location rules are one hell of a thing.

>>51004926
Or some kind of weird amalgamation of Lego and OSR. Figurines for the characters would be easy to find, at least!

>>51004869
Sooo... D&D with a dash of stuff like Nechronica?

In DCC, there's a rule saying if you're dead and your body is recovered within the hour, that you get a Luck check to see if you were merely injured and unconscious instead.
I just wonder if this is combat-only or if this applies to poison and traps?

>>51004850
Or a good night's sleep and some herbs, or a solid few seconds of yelling from someone who makes drill instructors look cuddly.

>>51004850
>>51005161
A good locker room pep-talk should get you back in the game.

>>51005114
In the rules, it says that succeeding the roll results in the PC not being dead but "merely stunned or knocked out". If you think that it's possible that the trap or poison only knocks people out rather than killing them, then I don't see why not. It seems like this is mostly a DM preference thing.

Also, it's worth noting that in appendix P in the book, it says
>a brush with poison should frequently result in permanent debilitation or death.
This makes me think that the luck check mostly isn't a thing with poisons.

>>51005219
"Awww, "me arm's off," poor diddums, BOO FUCKING HOO, GET THE FUCK UP AND YOU CAN STICK IT BACK ON WITH ORC BLOOD WHEN YOU'RE DONE KILLING THOSE FUCKERS."

>>51005332
Warlord is still the best thing 4E gave us.

>>51005505
counterpoint: triple-undead double-vampire

or I think it got up to quadruple-undead triple-vampire double-werewolf, at one point.

warlord is however the second-best thing 4e gave us.

>>51005505
I still can't believe people complained about it.

>>51005563
It killed one of the sacred cows (divine magic only for heals) so of course.

>>51005674
Bards are arcane casters and can heal tho

Did the Tome of Horrors guys make a book for the more standard monster like goblins and stuff? I'd love a similar treatment there

>>51005531
Be a Revenant Vryloka with all the feats that give you vampire heritage, be a Vampire, multiclass into Wizard so you can get the Lich epic destiny, and... I dunno. Stick on the Werewolf theme, I guess? You can probably also hybrid to get into some interesting Paragon Paths.

But that's basically just the undead/vampire/werewolf thing you're talking about.

>>51005711
Don't forget Druids!

>>51005711
Shhh.

I'm starting a campaign soon and I have both Rappan Athuk and Barrowmaze in my library. Which one would you recommend?

The group is mostly new to OSR, having played a couple of DCC modules.

>>51003048

OD&D had Race-as-class, it just didn't come out and say it. If you chose a non-human race your class was chosen already, except the elf who switched between fighting man/magic user.
Basic's race-as-class was just acknowledging a state that already existed in OD&D.

>>51005943
>it just didn't come out and say it.
There's an amusing Dragon editorial from Gygax slamming OD&D DMs for not knowing that spells expire when they're used. It would have been helpful if he had actually put some effort into explaining the rules, huh?

>>51005943
>OD&D had Race-as-class, it just didn't come out and say it.
Well, until Greyhawk came along and made it into race-and-class by giving some actual alternatives.

The AD&D Dwarf is still limited to just the Fighter, Thief and Assassin - and an AD&D Halfling can't even be an Assassin.

Actual full-on "any race can be any class" didn't really kick in until 3E, I think?

Basic's race-as-class thing was really just a simplification of the OD&D situation, like most things in Basic.

>>51006072
They actually explained that in the errata! They added the following line in later printings:
>A spell used once may not be reused in the same day.

Hell if I know what printing that came in, though.

>>51006072

Arneson and Gygax, man. Arneson was incapable of getting shit done; Gygax could get it done, but couldn't explain it to anyone when he had.

>>51006072
OD&D was ridiculously well play tested - possibly the best-tested edition ever printed.

It was not, however, well-edited.

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>>51001299
>>51001313
...You can do it from level 1 in LotFP.

>>51003601
> A bit of describing, a fleshed-out plothook to go with it, and an eye-candy of an illustration for almost every creature. Massive bonus points for Cenobites
>Are there any more stuff like that? Most OSR bestiaries seem to be just a long lists of statblocks...
Teratic Tome, Lusus Naturae, and Fire on the Velvet Horizon should be up your proverbial alley.

Lusus in particular is fun, partly because the author is drawing off his own cultural folklore. The art with humans in it is lack-luster by which I mean shit, but Gennifer is a nice person and I want to be nice to her, and there are some pointlessly-edgy bits in it, but then there are things like the Chiarosicurians and the Shadows of Elder Times. Or the Orbs, one of which causes all magic cast in its presence to be anagrammed. A lot of the monsters in here are basically one-shot adventures rather than "monsters" in the conventional sense.

Teratic Tome is technically for LL, but easy to hack. The art is good, and the book is more self-consciously a "monster manual" in the 1e vein than a collection of "holy shit what the fuck oh god". Still a lot of that in there, of course, this is Chandler we're talking about.

Fire.. it's really goddamned pretty and very, very weird.

>>51005873
Stonehell, but Barrowmaze works too.
I'm skeptical about Rappan Athuk because it looks like more work while less unique flavor.

>>51006273
>Fire on the Velvet Horizon
Is it still physical version only?

>>51006523
Yes and it won't change.

>>51006132
I'm of many minds regarding racial class restrictions.
>they arbitrarily limit player choice
>but they also can provide impetus for rules-driven worldbuilding
>unrestricted race-class combinations allow for unique and interesting characters
>but they also open the door to I'M PLAYING AN ORC WIZARD I'M SO QUIRKY XD shitters

The middle ground I lean toward is that starting classes are limited by race but anyone can dual-class (in the AD&D sense, including non-humans)/multiclass (in the 3.X sense) into anything else. So your Dwarves can only start as fighters/thieves/assassins but maybe they can become wizards or bards later.

>>51006552
>>they arbitrarily limit player choice
In OD&D/AD&D it's mostly just that everyone can be a Fighter or Thief, but some classes don't have Magic-Users and most demihumans don't have PC Clerics.

And subclasses are mostly human except for assassins, I guess, but that's less relevant than the Big Four.

As for restricting the other stuff, well, that's just a case of Clerics being closely related to Catholicism and that being a very Human thing, and also the thing where most sorcerers in the fiction it's taking inspiration from are either human or elves.

That dwarves and halflings managed to get some antimagic fluff and crunch somewhere along the way probably helped give further justification for the whole idea of the non-magical dwarf.


Orcs have wizard-equivalents in every D&D where they're playable and some where they aren't, though - it all boils down to AD&D having some rules for humanoid shamans and witch-doctors who use limited spell lists to do whatever their tribes of 20-200 need.

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>>51006523
>>51006534
>tfw been waiting almost 3 weeks now for the book to arrive from lulu

>>51006809
>mfw shipping costs more than the book itself

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>>51006523
Unfortunately, yeah. Until someone decides to break the spine on their copy, anyway.

>>51006642
>>51006552
Honestly, most of the time I just ask the players why they want to go outside the race/class restrictions, and write a backstory. If they want the aesthetics and don't care about the rules, nor want to put any effort into it, then why bother complicating shit? Guess who's a Changeling/outculture Dwarf (see: Captain Carrot)?
If they actually sit down and write out a decent backstory, then I'll usually allow them to break character creation rules. No skin off my nose if Cleric #43 is an Elf who got the Chaos baptized out of him to become a Knight Templar and spends his life wrestling with his demon-tainted soul. Shit, if you can keep him alive that might even be awesome.

Is removing BFRPGs class restrictions and ability requirements game breaking?

Like, why SHOULDNT a Halflings be able to use magic, or a wizard be basically retarded?

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>>51006523
>>51006809
>>51006905
Well, there are few scanned pages floating around, if that intrests you.

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>>51007301

>>51007257
It wouldn't break the game but I'd expect a player to roll up Cletus the Int 3 Wizard and shit on every social situation.

>>51002989
>>51003001
>>51003018
>>51003202
it's a shame that Essentials had so many problems, because those books are some of the prettiest that WOTC has ever published, and the size format for the main Essentials books is in my opinion the perfect size for RPG books

>>51003601
>Are there any more stuff like that? Most OSR bestiaries seem to be just a long lists of statblocks...
Fire On The Velvet Horizon is a good one, although it doesn't provide stats for it's monsters

>>51003715
yeah always thought that was dumb

>>51003949
to be fair the switch from 3.5 to 4E kinda screwed over Goodman for a while, which is one of the reasons they even made DCC in the first place

>>51004987
man a proper LEGO OSR game would be the most wonderful Gonzo thing

>>51005505
agreed

>>51006072
>It would have been helpful if he had actually put some effort into explaining the rules, huh?
yeah it's amazing how bad Gygax was at that

>>50992562
>Why include a mostly useless feat like Healing Balm
Not that Anon, but even one point there gives mid-dungeon full heals between every fight.

>>51006523
yup, one day I'll buy another copy and scan it though(probably the next time Lulu has a coupon for 35% or more off)

>>51006552
if it's not a Race As Class system, I generally just allow any race to be any class, although some combinations aren't exactly optimal(like say a Half-Ogre Thief), but then what got me interested in D&D was all the interesting and weird races, and it always bugs me when D&D/OSR games restrict or cripple being able to choose them as part of a viable character

>>51006642
>Orcs have wizard-equivalents in every D&D where they're playable and some where they aren't, though - it all boils down to AD&D having some rules for humanoid shamans and witch-doctors who use limited spell lists to do whatever their tribes of 20-200 need.
man I fucking hate the Shaman/Witch-Doctor system, it's just one of many things that TSR did to cripple the concept of playing a non Human or Demi-Human character

>>51006809
>>51006905
Lulu is still better in that regard than DriveThruStuff's POD service, they've got the absolutely worst shipping service in existence

>>51007257
I'd remove Class & Level Restrictions, but I'm not as sure about the Ability Score requirements

>>51006809
Wow that's bad. I always get my Lulu books four to five days after ordering tops.

I'm re-reading Berserk (last time I only got to volume 28, I think) and I'd like to drop the berserk armor on my players.

I'm thinking about increased combat capabilities, maybe an extra attack every turn, but you lose your HP. Like, literally, while you are wearing it I won't tell you how much damage you are recieving. Of course I'd be keeping count behind the screen.

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>>51007503
>Lulu is still better in that regard than DriveThruStuff's POD service, they've got the absolutely worst shipping service in existence
Yeah absolutely. I've ordered stuff from them too and they've almost taken five weeks now.

>>51007608
I guess it doesn't help that I live in Europe.

>>51007625
So if they go past 0 HP they keep fighting as the armor literally nails their bones back together? Do they then die after the fight?

>>51007702
The armor would keep them alive and conscious until their life reaches their max hp in negatives while they keep on fighting. If they stop fighting and are in negative they'd go into a coma until they came back to positive hit points.

If they ever reach their max hit points as negatives they die as their blood completely drains from their body.

>>51007503
>Shaman/Witch-Doctor system
I dunno man, the concept behind the witch doctor (being the spooky servant of some z-list outsider) is actually a pretty good one. Forget Orcus and Demogorgon, give Baxol from Accounting and Yonni the Janitodaemon.

>what got me interested in D&D was all the interesting and weird races, and it always bugs me when D&D/OSR games restrict or cripple being able to choose them as part of a viable character
As someone who wants to play a Thri-kreen assassin one day I feel ya.

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>>51007503
>man I fucking hate the Shaman/Witch-Doctor system, it's just one of many things that TSR did to cripple the concept of playing a non Human or Demi-Human character
Eh, it's exclusively for the "humanoids" - i.e. orcs, hobgoblins, ogres, etc. The monsters.

At the time it was written, it wasn't exactly a player option - it was just a way to give a bit more stuff to those lairs of 40-400 kobolds by giving 'em a dude who can Dispel Magic. (Or the wannabe evil overlord PC some access to Cure Light Wounds. There's some neato orc vs. kobold racism tables in the DMG as well, if you wanna hire a mixed army of evil critters.)

It only really became an issue on the PC side of things in Orcs of Thar and the Complete Book of Humanoids, when they gave rules for actually playing as those monstrous races.
But those books have more issues than just that, really.

>>51007625
I'd say maybe some minor damage reduction? Like -1 or so, since minor injuries are semi-fixed.
Or possibly do it DoomRL way - the more you're hurt the more protection it gives.

Or, if Cleave rules apply, allies are also may be hit?

>>51007846
>There's some neato orc vs. kobold racism tables in the DMG as well

I like the whole kobold-xvart-goblin hate triangle in the MC.

>>51007846
>It only really became an issue on the PC side of things in Orcs of Thar and the Complete Book of Humanoids, when they gave rules for actually playing as those monstrous races.
>But those books have more issues than just that, really.
that's exactly what I meant

As stated in threads past;

Every time characters rest they reroll their hit dice. Using oldschool DnD's d6 hit dice for everyone works well here, especially when on certain levels characters get flat bonuses to HP by like +1 point or whatever.

>Resting
Resting lets the characters give themselves a fresh health pool. Reroll all AC, and take the following into account as bonuses.
>Conditions
Quality of the bedding and meal before you sleep matters greatly. If you have only the bare minimum, no bonus. If you have a good quality meal and good quality beds (or great one or the other but only mediocre the other) grant the players the ability to reroll their lowest hit dice rolled that day. If they have exceptionally great quality, something luxurious or possibly magical, grant two rerolls. If forced to sleep on bare stone or go without a meal they must reroll their HIGHEST hit die instead.
>Watch
If the character doesn't have to get up to keep watches, they get to reroll all 1s on their hit dice.

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Anyone have some good rules on Familiars?

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So, I've done some thinking about running my campaign and I decided not to run Dungeon World as my first RPG. The lack of profression and incentives aren't really there for late games, in my opinion. Can anyone suggest a fantasy RPG that's similarly easy to run with a bit more crunch? The only caveats are that it has to have a Druid class, and it has to encourage world exploration.

>>51010134
Play ACKS!

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>>51009822
Looking for naturalistic/pseudo-historical, helpful, weird/screwy, or what?

Normal rules:
You invest permanent HP in a 0-HP animal or critter (that's where the spell comes in). In return you get:
• Animal can talk to you and others of its kind (a cat can talk to a lion or bobcat, a weasel to a ferret or wolverine, etc).
• The animal gains a pool of skill points, assigned as appropriate. A cat, for example, could get Stealth and Backstab, while a Raven could have Languages and Tinkering. I'm torn on whether to give the PC a bonus point in one of those skills, but it is a reasonable return on investment (especially since Familiars start out so fragile).
• You each gain traits of the other. So a witch's hair might blacken to match her cat's, while the cat gains her birthmark or more "human" features. If you're playing with DCC/Maleficar-style Corruption, then there's a chance you each gain more obvious correspondences.
• The animal gains the Wizard's saves.
• At high levels, the familiar can potentially shape-shift and gain other powers, based on the Wizards' research and known spells.

Alternately, you can find the equipment, ingredients, and knowledge to craft a Homunculus, which is more powerful but >much< more taxing upon the mage. It requires some combination of years of the Mage's life, stat points, and permanent HP to bring to life, but shares some of his magical power.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJpxs7VNhmE )

Supernatural familiars have their own rules (and agendas). Though they will require a negotiated pact to serve you, there's less >personal< investment in a Quasit. Then again, he's got very little investment in you..

>>51010434

Not relevant, but I really love that little crocodile looking thing as being a lap-pet or something draped across the shoulders like that. How wonderfully sinister.

File: Fungal Forest Encounters.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

To the Anon who requested it like a month ago; I'm very sorry it took so long. Here's your fungus forest and associated fungus-zombie mechanics for those who want to infect your players with cordyceps.

How different does a DCC hex crawl/dungeon crawl feel from a standard B/X based one?

>>51010668

Been a while, but I believe the bigs ones are scaling of monsters, different saving throw system, and skill checks (like "DC15 to jump the moat") all over the place.

>>51010134
ACKS seems like it'd be up your alley. There's also BFRPG with some optional rules slotted in.

File: 103412.jpg (88KB, 247x320px) Image search: [Google]

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Thoughts on this?
Sorry for the small image, I couldn't find a better one.