World of Darkness & Cronicles of Darkness general /wodg/cofdg/

Dark Eras Companion is the most hype I've been for a book in a while. Here's hoping the Werewolf chapter sells me on the line like the first book did for Mage.

I'm not as excited for Rio as I should be. It feels like a kinda oddball choice for Mummy, and the art of a winged serpent in an area that's never had them has me slightly on edge. But if ot gives us Relic Architecture finally, so be it.

>tfw Book of Going Westward never

>No Unicycle Mages in the OP

I am highly disappointed.

Minor Templates? I always liked Wraith's Mediums, and I'd like something on that route, but the Supernatural Merits do a decent enough job on that.

>>50973342

Minor trmplates are tight. The Dreamers in Hurt Locker are my favorite thing out of CofD in years.

I still stand by past life rememberers as a solid idea for a minor template, like Assassin's Creed but not shit.

>>50973411
Sell me on this.

>>50973342
>What minor templates are we missing?
more info on the dampires would be nice

>>50973529
1e dhampyrs are quite compatible with 2e though

>>50973596
book page references?

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>>50973411
Assassin's Creed is great, except for all the wasted potential. I had an Assassin's Creed idea, but I couldn't think of any good ways to make the Bleeding Effect interesting.

My ideas were basically Aura Sight and a modified version of the Masque from Guardians of the Veil. Also the ability to one shot someone and have them answer your questions in the white room.

>>50973596
Not really? I mean, especially since they play off of the Banes. Even if the mechanics were compatible, which I don't think they are, a lot of the clan fluff has been tweaked.
>>50973529
Half-Damned soon

>>50973635
It's in the Wicked Dead supplement.

>>50973636
>, which I don't think they are
They are quite compatible, as I said. Stop saying stuff without having any back up. I checked this stuff recently, because someone over at OPP forums asked abut any houserules for 2e Dhampyrs. I read the chapter and it is all very compatible. They are even still compatible with the slight fluff tweaks to the Clan banes.

Fuck off and die, Aspel

>>50973456

On the Dreamers or on my idea?

>>50973636

The only good Assassin's Creed game is the first. My attempt at the whole thing was also basically just Masques with more sub-Merits, too.

>>50973751
Sell me on your minor template. I see how it can make for an interesting narrative. But mechanically? What else is there than a Supernatural Merit that lets you glean information from your past lives?

>>50973751
>The only good Assassin's Creed game is the first
Also Black Flag, though really that was just a good pirates game which just so happened to have a few Assassins Creed bits.

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>>50973636
I thought you'd LOVE Syndicate.

>>50973342
>What minor templates are we missing?

Purified for places besides the Shadow.

Those who die on Avernian Gateways, Hedge openings, Supernal Verges, Chamber doorways, etc.

Brains In Jars

I haven't been around in a while.

Do DaveB and Chris Allen still post here?

>>50974017
No, Paradox didn't renew their contracts

>>50974017
sometimes. not much or at length. They're more on the onyx forums

>>50974031
then they'd be on here more shitposting

I can't imagine Dhampirs will be too much different from their Wicked Dead incarnations. Maybe they'll end up with some more mechanical enforcement of their ability to drive Kindred into their Curses or something. Maybe some lower starting Door ratings for Socially Manpulating Kindred of a compatible Clan.

>>50974031
>>50974036

I heard Dave and Chris told Paradox to fuck off due to creative differences and some drunk comments about the queen, and they are now exclusively working on new Shadowrun material?

>>50974205
>and some drunk comments about the queen

Well they are british, so this checks out

Unlucky mage fags

>>50974205
bait

>>50974205

>Mass exodus of WoD/CofD writers to Shadowrun

I could see this happening, actually. It's not going to but I can certainly see it.

>>50974205
>they are now exclusively working on new Shadowrun material?

Shadowrun?

I heard they're now working on W40K and CoC.

>>50974217
>>and some drunk comments about the queen

Isn't the queen a true fae in the CofD?

>>50974423
She'd better not be

>https://a.uguu.se/DmWuMDUqWQZn_01-Secrets_of_the_Covenants.pdf
Just reposting the link.

>>50974423

A Guardian from Immortals, actually.

>>50974532
That I like

>>50974531

SofC was a real disappointment (and damn hard to read with all the different fonts, colors and formatting).

A Thousand Years of Night better be Imperial Mysteries-level good.

>>50973751
Ezio is bae, fuck off
>>50973810
Just watching Black Flag was amazing. Made me want to do my pirate geist thing.

>>50973691
I'm sorry, I didn't know I needed to get your permission to have an opinion.

But if you like, sure, I'll elaborate, since you asked so politely:

• First off, Dhampyr would probably use Conditions, specifically the Pregnancy conditions, though that's not a big thing.
• Penetrating Eye would probably be a Clash of Wills of some sort in 2e,
• The Out goes against a lot of 2e's design sensibilities, and 40 to 60 Experiences is already quite different in 2e. Losing Experiences isn't really something that happens.
• The Afflictions would be better off as Conditions, instead of an extra Vice/Virtue.
• The Lure would also be better off as Conditions.
• So would the Doom.
• Worth noting is that the Escape doesn't mention what level of Humanity roll is required to begin with, and in VtR you roll the level of the sin, not your current level. (Mekhet one does say 3 dice)

>>50974590

I, for one, am ready for the inevitable splat mechanical arms race leading up to The Crossover Chronicle.

>>50973691
• I could also comment on the individual Clan Bloods; I mean, even in 1e I don't think they did a good job, and while I like the idea I disliked the mechanics:
• The Daeva one treats it like a break up when they could still be together (and the Daeva Blood Affliction means it could have been broken off before the Lure sank in), the Advantage could also be better served using the Social Maneuvering system
• the Gangrel one is about Trust, but that's not really a big theme of the Gangrel (far more fitting for the Nosferatu), the Frenzy rules are completely different now and Rotschreck isn't a thing; also worth noting is that it says you can spend multiple Willpower to downgrade aggravated, but 1e only let you spend 1WP a turn period.
• The Nosferatu Blood Advantage focuses on Obfuscate instead of Nightmare, and in 2e especially "fear" is their schtick. Ditto on how the Affliction is about avoiding social groups, as opposed to fear. The Lure focuses on the Nossie as ugly and unlovable, too, as opposed to scary. Also the Doom is set off by the Nos feeling the Dhampyr is just as repulsed.
• All of the Outs are wildly disparate. The Daeva and Mekhet ones are "make amends for your wrongdoings" while the Ventrue and Gangrel ones are "keep doing the shitty things you did before" and the Nosferatu one is just... "make a friend", which the Dhampyr in all likelihood could be!

I don't really like the mechanics to begin with, and suggesting that they're compatible has a lot of baggage to it. They're compatible in the loosest sense that, aside from a few minor changes (Virtue and Vice replaced by Mask and Dirge, no Rotschreck, etcetera), they're mechanically playable. But I have a slightly higher bar for Compatibility.

>>50973933
I like that there's a trans character, I like that there's a female side-lead. I haven't really bothered to so much as watch it on Youtube, though. Same with Unity. The reviews amount to "It's okay, I guess" and wasted potential.

>>50974071
I honestly kind of hope they go in a different direction with them, to be honest. I like the idea of Dhampyr, but the actual mechanics are not really that interesting. I suspect that if we do get the same kind, it's more likely that we'll see a generic Dhampyr Lure Condition, the same way you get a boilerplate thing for Disquiet, Wastelands, and Torments.

>>50974361
From what I can tell, it's the other way around. Catalyst is garbo.

>>50974625
>Trans character
>In Victorian Britain
They're not really going for the historical crowd, are they?

>>50974625
>female sidekick Robin

>>50974614
>I, for one, am ready for the inevitable splat mechanical arms race leading up to The Crossover Chronicle.

I think first Imperial Mysteries will need a 2e tune-up and werewolves will need a some top-level help.

If and when we ever see the release of the Crossover Chronicle years from now, the discussion will no doubt turn to mutually assured splat destruction as a means of maintaining the overall setting.

I'm used to the progressive politics in rpg and video games.

However, it's really a pet peeve of mine when people try to rewrite history to shoehorn modern sensibilities.

If you really want to do that, just create an alternative setting, but don't insult me by claiming it actually represents our history.

>>50974532
>A Guardian from Immortals

???

>>50974610
>permission to have an opinion
You need to have a basis for your opinion.

>your elaboration
Does not render your valid opinion that 1e Dhampyrs are 'not really?' compatible with 2e's rules set. All it does is show that there is room for tweaks and improvements.

Example:
>Losing Experiences isn't really something that happens.
No. But it is quite common for Merit and Humanity dots to be lost. So, you can rephrase the rule to state that the vampire needs to lose an amount of dots in appropriate Merits and Humanity, equal to an X amount of Experiences.

There are guidelines floating about the forums to do XP conversions from 1e to 2e, so little trouble there.

>>50974670
>>50974776
>However, it's really a pet peeve of mine when people try to rewrite history to shoehorn modern sensibilities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Hamilton_(transvestite)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevalier_d%27%C3%89on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesta_Tilley
http://www.victorianlondon.org/women/crossdressing.htm
http://genderfork.com/2009/lydia-thompson-the-father-of-all-drag-kings/
Turns out this isn't something that only existed in the '00s.

>If you really want to do that, just create an alternative setting, but don't insult me by claiming it actually represents our history.
Anon, if you think the game with not one but two alien progenitor conspiracies vying for control of magical mind control artifacts with sketchy pseudoscience is claiming to actually represent our history, you really need to reevaluate things. But on top of that, it's important to keep in mind that popular assumptions about a time period don't always hold true; particularly when it comes to /tg/'s obsession with denying that certain minority groups ever existed in historical periods. It's also troubling that so many people are concerned about historical inaccuracy when it comes to progressive politics, but not when the past is misrepresented in other ways, whether they be conservative or simply anachronisms and misrepresented geographies. Or the presence of technologically advanced secret societies descended from ancient aliens who fight each other with parkour and stabbing.
At least you're not complaining that a *completely* fictional setting isn't a perfect representation of real historical locations while also ignoring the many "apolitical" ways that fantasy setting doesn't represent the real historical locations

That was really wordy. You get the point.

>>50974789
I believe those are the type of Immortal chosen to defend a city or other location. I thought they were called Wardens? I never cared for Immortals, but someone was one of those in a game I was in.

>>50974957
>Aspel has all the information about every gay/trans/bi/pangender/bigender/trigender/otherkin/kingender/genderkin/pansexual/bipan/tribikatai/quadruped on hand for just such an occasion
Nice

>>50974944
What the fuck do you think compatibility even is?
Also, no, you don't just lose merits for no reason and never get them back. If you need to tweak and convert things, that means that by definition it's not compatible. There's no basis for your opinion, but I'm not here telling you to shove it up your ass.

>>50974776

Assassin's Creed is a series of video games that involve a secret occult shadow war that isn't just between bored rich assholes, aliens, and and VR technology that actually works. It's the last video game series in the world that anyone would think actually represents history.

They headbutt the Pope in that game, it's not a serious attempt at historical revisionism.

>>50974993
>aspel knows how to Google
Doesn't everyone? I mean, I do have a folder of bookmarks labeled "SJWs are ruining everything" where I have useful info, but none of what I posted was from that.

>>50975006
Fistfighting Rodrigo Goddamned Borgia is without a doubt a 10/10 final boss. I'm honestly disappointed the Cesare fight wasn't as good, despite Brotherhood's control scheme overall being better. Then again, Assassin's Creed is not a game for boss fights that aren't puzzle style "how do I put my blade in his kidneys" events.

>>50975004
>What the fuck do you think compatibility even is?
I ask the question: can I run this without too much of a hassle when I ST? If the answer is yes, then the rules are compatible. Simple.

>they're mechanically playable. But I have a slightly higher bar for Compatibility.
Oh. Right. You reify your concepts, I forgot.

I bet you don't ST on a regular basis, do you?

>>50974703

Is Imperial Mysteries really that out of date? It doesn't seem like you need to make much effort to make it 2e-compliant. Quintessence alone is pretty much a means to pay off spell factors from the get go.

I'd like to see an endgame Werewolf book, though. That'd be fun.

>>50975004
Oh, also. Players lose merits all the time. They even wrote a rule, conductive to this happening. It's called: Sanctity of Merits

>>50975053
IGNORE X

>>50975112
You could do it, but a lot of shit that used to be 7 dots is now not etc.

>>50975071
I bet you don't either.
My bar for compatibility is "do I feel this fits together". By your metric, I could play a 1e character in its entirety in a 2e game.

>>50975165
Yes, which makes "you must lose X Experiences worth of merit dots" meaningless. Sanctity of Merits is people *not* losing things, it's converting it to XP. Which... isn't how the Out works.

>>50975175
You're not really setting a very good example there.

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>>50975112

Dave indicated he already has the basics to make Archmasters fully 2e mechanically compliant.

It's a shame he quit OPP, but at least Shadowrun should see a noticeable improvement in writing..

He'll also probably have an easier time incorporating Komodo Dragons in his work.

>>50975258
>>50975175

>>50975071
>I bet you don't ST on a regular basis, do you?
X doesn't even play the game. He is not hear to play or comment, but to spew his fail blog for attention. Its an attention whore

>>50975258
>Sanctity of Merits is people "not" losing things,
Yes. The things they do not lose are Experiences. They get refunded for what they do lose: Merit dots purchased. Losing a Merit dot is far from meaningless, it is (usually) a very meaningfull event, narratively. You know, losing dots is usually a logical consequence of Player shennanigans.

>By your metric, I could play a 1e character in its entirety in a 2e game.
There is, indeed, often little work required to port a (N)PC write up from 1e to 2e. There is some work required, though. Don't pretend I claim otherwise.

>>50975261

Nothing can improve Shadowrun's writing, but it's not like that'll ever stop them.

>>50975215

Fair enough, I hadn't really thought about that aspect.

What is that about Dave quitting OPP?

>>50975579

It's a meme that posters like to throw down for unsuspecting readers.

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>>50975579
OPP dumped everyone due to them being sold off.

>>50975596
It's true until Dave bothers to turn up and tell us otherwise

>>50975579
>What is that about Dave quitting OPP?

What else can explain his absence...

>>50975635
>>50975644

These are also part of the meme.

>>50973342
>Minor Templates

Have the Purified been updated? OR anything else from Immortals?

>>50975927
>Have the Purified been updated? OR anything else from Immortals?

No. OPP hasn't even finished updating the major splats.

Unless some OPP developer or original author feels like doing some free work, it's unlikely we'll see an Immortals update for a very long time, if ever.

>>50975927
>>50976010
Some forums stuff on immortals, since everyone is allergic to that cesspool.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d1cnQ_M2w_IXCv1ccC-jcilJeoXU7aRCOCu_PsaaF1s/edit#heading=h.8dxn0c2s4740
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/40130-purified-and-the-god-machine-spirit-rules/page6

Has anyone from OPP indicated if we're getting a second Werewolf 2e supplement and what it might be about?

So Spirit Summons is unclear, or perhaps I'm just not getting it.

Do you can either call the closest spirit, a spirit you know, or a spirit of a defined resonance?

Then it says "sensory range"? How far is that?
I imagine most useful Spirits wouldn't be found within your line of sight?

Can't you basically just shout "to me, oh spirit of fire" and get the closest fire spirit within reason to come running? Like one resting in a hobo's trash can fire a few neighbourhoods over?

Does anyone have the demon translation guide? I can't find it in any of the megas.

>>50977508
>demon translation guide

https://www.sendspace.com/file/5p8yfr

>>50977630

Thanks man.

>>50977666
CTRL+F Secrets the thread dude, it's been shared since last night.

>>50977710
Whoops, I forgot to quote the post.
>>50976288
>What the fuck am I reading? Some bullshit about commies and socialism. If you fellows are so left wing - so go ahead and share Secrets of the Covenants, for fuck sake.
Maybe you should try reading the thread.
My bad.

>>50974610
Die choking on a micropenis, Aspel

>>50974670
There was actually quite a lively culture of drag kings in Victorian England. There's a miniseries about it called "Tipping the Velvet".

>>50978585
Drag does not equal trans.

>>50975053
SHUT UP and DIE, Aspel. Drink bleach and stick your hands into the fucking deep fry.

>>50978623
>Drag does not equal trans

Oh rly? Then what does "transvestite" mean?

Fuck off and die, Aspel.

>>50978712
Nice meme
I was the one disagreeing with Aspel

Anyone here ever have a game where the players are trapped in an Antediluvian's dream?

Coincidental Effect: lighting a cigarette to summon a bus or taxi in less than 30 seconds.

>>50978712
Why would that post be Aspel? I've repeatedly gotten into arguments with people about how transgender is more than just transsexual.
Are you fucking memeing me here?

>>50978743
Who cares if you agree? Assassin's Creed Syndicate has a transgender character. It doesn't matter whether you feel that is or isn't historically accurate. It doesn't even matter whether or not someone assigned female at birth and presenting as a man could or couldn't exist in Victorian England. You know what also couldn't exist in Victorian England? Well dressed and incredibly athletic serial killers armed with incredibly advanced technology and descended from ancient aliens combating a global conspiracy to use mind control artifacts to subvert free will.

>>50979093
We should just replace all video games characters with transgendered people of colour.

Why can't we just kill all the europeans? I mean, really, they do nothing but bad.

Hello I am trying to make the most combat capable Rahu possible in wtf 2e since my group wants me to be their secret weapon against a powerful pack of purebloods.

>>50978805
I am still in a dream

>>50979469

Melee only or are guns OK?

>>50979522
Melee since he is a storm lord.

>>50979522
Werewolves are much better with their hands.

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>Cruac style: Opening the Void

They kept it the absolute madmen

>>50979823
I like the *idea* of Cruac Styles, but in practice they're just weird shit like birthing freakish Homunculi and opening gateways to the void or causing giant cloning animals. The fact that you have to perform some other Cruac ritual if you want to create holes in reality or mutate people or change the weather is also rather difficult.

Birthing the God is by far the coolest thing Acolytes get, and possibly the most gonzo fucking thing in the whole book.

>>50979926
Where do you find Cruac Style?

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Can't have a thread without Thyrsus waifu

>>50979926
>The fact that you have to perform some other Cruac ritual if you want to create holes in reality or mutate people or change the weather is also rather difficult.
those are things youcan do with blood sorcery
weather control is common in cruac

>>50977378
>Do you can either call the closest spirit, a spirit you know, or a spirit of a defined resonance?
any
don't want to call closest spirit
>spirit of your gloves says hi

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>>50980272
can't have a thread without forgotten hsuband

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>>50978743
>Nice meme

No.

A meme is a joke that relies on repetition to derive it's humour. It is often used as a form of inside joke, part of the hidden language of any given subculture or interest group.

Telling Aspel to fuck off and die is not a meme. It is not done for humour. It is done to save this thread from the dumpster fires that occur when that bloated fat tranny bastard starts posting about queer politics, gender politics, disabilities or world history, endlessly quarreling and nitpicking, dismissing other people's opinions (especially if they actually know what they are talking about) and just generally acting like a complete cunt.

The 24 hour ban that fat fuck copped was glorious. The thread ran beautifully, and stayed on topic. Shitposting dried up.

Aspel is a prion, a toxic protein that dissolves brain tissue with their inane bullshit. The world would be a better place if they were sodomized to death by rabid hillbillies.

For these reasons, we tell Aspel to shut up and die.

>>50979823
Oppa Cruac Style

*starts horse dance*

>>50980272
>>50980638
>Can't have a thread without Thyrsus waifu
>can't have a thread without forgotten hsuband

Oh yes we can...

>>50980657
I was calling the bit about calling everyone Aspel a meme but thanks

Anyone have the Tales of Dark Eras fiction anthology?

Could Life 4 + Mind 4 turn someone into a purely mental being (e.g. a Goetia), thus allowing travel to the Astral without the hastle of leaving a physical body behind?

Kinda like how Archmasters exist?

>>50980722
>calling everyone Aspel

Sadly, Aspel is more than just a disruptive troll, it's now become synonymous with nasty and diversionary political posts that ruin otherwise fairly amicable and productive discussion of actual WW products.

What's to stop a player in Awakening becoming another Archmaster?

>>50980838
The difficulty of doing so, and of finding a GM who's happy with you doing so?

>have to live with Aspel posting and explicitly off-topic Anti-Aspel posting

Truly we are in the darkest timeline.

>>50980838

Well, there's an extended roll to survive the trip across the Abyss that you'd better succeed, or you're coming back a Quipploth at best. I think there's also a Gnosis and Arcana gate that a player should (they don't HAVE to but it will increase their chances of survival) cross before attempting to seek the Imperial Mysteries. There might be others, it's been a while since I read the book.

>>50980779

A purely mental being created with Mind 4 and Life 4 would not automatically have access to the Astral. It would simply exist in Twilight during the duration of the spell.

Also, leaving you physical body behind when traveling to the Astral is a feature, not a bug. The Astral can be quite dangerous, but mages absent very unusual and rare circumstances, mages cannot actually be killed during their Astral sojourns.

>>50980902
You need Gnosis 6+, an Arcanum at 5, and enough Experiences to afford to increase it to 6.

You also need to cross the Abyss, experiencing every Paradox you ever caused, afresh.
You need to accumulate 15 successes on a Resolve + Composure test, spending one Arcane Beat for each roll.
If you run out, you fail and become a Qliphoth.

Then if you succeed you enter the Supernal and must succeed on a Resolve + Gnosis check, and spend a dot of Willpower to create a Lustrum stopping your dissolution into the Supernal. In doing so, you must conflict with natives from the realm, as well as any Supernal enemies you've made.

Then you've got to deal with a Supernal guardian, complete their trial, then return to the material with your new Cintamani.

Then deal with the fact that you've returned to a different reality.
Good shit.

>>50980939
Which is why in that state you then meditate into the Astral.
Also yeah, it's a feature.
A features that's a pain in the ass when your physical body needs a feeding.

>>50980939
>...is a feature, not a bug.

I used to have this old Russian Jew bastard as a landlord. The guy survived the siege of Leningrad - crazy old fuck, tough as old boots. "is not broken, is feature" is what he claimed when an internal wall collapsed. That argument doesn't hold water then, and it doesn't hold water now.

What the fuck is the point of a "highly dangerous Astral plane" if no-one going there is actually in danger?

>>50981037
>when your physical body needs a feeding

That's nothing a little Time 2 or Life 2 , or even possibly Matter or Prime, couldn't begin to alleviate.

As for mediating into the Astral, you would still need to meet all other requirements as before (and actually be a mage), including needing a Hallow, mana expenditure, etc.

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>>50980721
>>50980638
>>50980272

Don't forget the true Beast

Shrime尻目
しりめ

TRANSLATION: butt eye
ALTERNATE NAMES: nuppori-bōzu
HABITAT: city streets, late at night
DIET: none; it just enjoys scaring people

APPEARANCE: From a distance, shirime appears to be a normal human being. When close enough, however, it becomes apparent that it is a yokai. It has no facial features, but located in its butt hole is a large eye which shines like lightning.

BEHAVIOR: Shirime approaches travelers on the road late at night, looking like a man wearing a kimono. Once it has their attention, it asks them if they have a moment to spare. Before they can answer, the shirime drops its kimono to the ground and bends over, spreading its butt cheeks and revealing the giant, shining eye located inside of its butt hole.

Other than its very startling behavior, shirime does not do anything harmful. It appears to thrive solely on the joy of scaring people.

ORIGIN: Although there are very few documented encounters, because of its alternate name (nuppori-bōzu) and its shocking behavior, it is very likely that shirime is a close relative of the noppera-bō, another faceless ghost. In this case, shirime’s true form may simply be a shapeshifted animal playing a practical joke on humans.

>>50981109
>As for mediating into the Astral
>mediating

"Okay, Archmasters, I really *appreciate* where you're coming from, but now it's time for the Silver Arrow to speak, mmmmmkay?"

>>50981088

You won't die is not the same as "not dangerous," and not being physically present also has its inherent limitations.

If a mage really wants to physically enter the Astral, however, there's no rule against it. I assume a Mind and Space spell could open a gateway or you could find an Astral iris. If you're really hard-up, desperate and don't mind slumming it with another splat, a Beast could probably help you out.

>>50981150

>grumble...stupid autocorrect...grumble...<

While lesser mages need to *meditate* into the Astral, those wiley archmasters are so powerful they can now *mediate* into the Astral, immediately appearing in their Temonic "safe space."

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>>50980657
Silence of the 4Chan

Lector: Look for severe childhood apathy associated with overbearing parents. Our Shitposter wasn't born a troll, Anon. He was made one through years of systematic entitlement. He hates his own identity, you see, and he thinks that makes him a transsexual. But ASp's pathology is a thousand times more sheltered and more autistic.

>Beast

I want to run a Heroes campaign where all the Heroes do is kill those stupid abusive fucks.

No-one kills like Gaston, baby.

>>50981230
Dear Aspel, I have followed with enthusiasm the course of your disgrace and public shaming. My own never bothered me except for the inconvenience of being banned for 24 hours, but you may lack perspective. In our discussions down in /tg/ it was apparent to me that your parents, the ones you freely admit to fantasising about murdering, figures largely in your value system. I think your success in putting an end to /wodg/'s value as a forum pleased you most because you could imagine your father being pleased. But now, alas, you're in bad odour with the mods and no-one wants to play your fangirl splat. Do you imagine your daddy being shamed by your disgrace? Do you see him in his plain pine box crushed by your failure; a sorry, petty end of a promising career? What is worst about this humiliation Aspel? Is it how your failure will reflect on your mommy and daddy? Is your worst fear that people will now and forever believe they were indeed just good old trailer camp tornado bait white trash and that perhaps you are too?

Here's some true World of Darkness inspiration from the most fucked up part of Australia; South Australia. The same state that had the "bodies in the barrels" incident in Snowtown and the never-solved Beaumont Children disappearances had a case during the Cold War that is so fucking wierd that Stephen King stole the idea and transplanted the events to Maine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamam_Shud_case

Serial killers, disappearances, a blatant poofter bashing so gratuitous it kicked off gay rights nationwide... but SA people bend over backwards to insist they're better than the other states because of the number of christfags and the lack of convicts in their past. Sure, that totally makes up for half the state acting like Fomori.

Do you apply defense against arrows? Is Hurt Locker in the Mega yet?

>>50981685

Hurt Locker has been shared for days.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/ofebod

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>>50981234
I want to be a hero

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>>50981998
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqWRaAF6_WY

I seriously think we need to do a fan version called Hero: the Asskicking.

Players play Heroes, stalking Beasts after the Beast does something horrible to them. Build the tension, raise local allies to form a noble posse, forge/obtain weapons and learn of the Beast's weaknesses, then lead an army of devoted Asskickers directly to the supernatural lair of the Otherkin Menace and fill it so full of arrows it pisses steel arrowheads.

OORRAAAH

>>50981998
Playing a Hero is awesome. They get healing++ Some mental immunity stuff. And they let you choice your Holy Sword of Smitness. Last game we found the beast out by the baseball fields I picked up a Louisville slugger and renamed it my Home Run bat. Smashed that fucker right out of the park. Good red dines I say, fucker was using the animals around the forest to eat and terrorize the town, fucked with our trade. Then this asshole kidnapped the sexy librarian and brainwashed her into loving him. Monsters you got to kill them before they get settled

>>50982225
Fuck yeah lynch the cunt

>>50976010

Some of it should be in the DE Companion.

>>50982445

I doubt we'll see updates for any of the Immortals supplement lesser splats in the Dark Eras Companion.

What would lead you to think we would?

>>50982594

Someone on the forums saying they had them put in the Mummy chapter.

>>50980175
Secrets of the Covenants, in the Appendix with all the new goodies.
>>50980374
Cruac Style is essentially "when you do Cruac, things happen". The three sample styles are:
>Unbridled Chaos
Shit fluctuates like crazy, gaining/losing structure and durability randomly, and animals gain Protean effects. Spend a point of Willpower and you can change the weather without being harmed by any negative weather effects
>Primal Creation
Shit grows, mutates, and becomes more fertile, gaining Size based on the Magnitude and giving babies or crop yield more than it normally would (even if it was infertile). If you spend a point of Willpower, you can cause something to clone itself in a gruesome display (but its natural lifespan is halved).
>Opening the Void
The crazy one in question >>50979823 which creates a gross little homonculus from the void whenever you do Cruac, with size and usefulness based on Magnitude. You can only have one at a time unless you buy it as a Retainer, which also lets it learn Disciplines. By spending a point of Willpower you can have the void try to suck a mortal in, which requires an Extended Willpower roll from the victim with successes equal to Magnitude and a penalty to any other actions equal to the Magnitude. It also requires a point of Willpower for each roll. So pretty useful if you want to get rid of a mortal without leaving a body.

What I meant isn't that this is new stuff for Cruac. It's more that I don't like that to DO all that cool stuff, you have to do an actual Cruac ritual. If I want two cows for some horrible Cronenbergian political/economic metaphor, I could only use Primal Creation if I did the ritual to make someone shit themselves to death. I mean, sometimes you don't need or want to make someone die a horrible agony filled death.

>>50980781
>otherwise fairly amicable and productive discussion of actual WW products.
Thanks, Anon, I needed a laugh.

>>50981088
Haven't you seen The Mummy movie staring Brendan Frasier? The first one.
There are worse things than death.

Does anyone have an srd-like site for nWoD? I remember one existing that had all the merits and skills and such, but it doesn't exist anymore ever since about a month ago.

>>50982658

The Subnet had all the rules and was rightly killed, but the Codex/Canon Index is still up.

>>50982620
Is there anything stopping you from making a ritual that does nothing?

Like fuck i don't know::
The Lion's Roar Cruac 1
Does nothing but counts as a ritual. It's impressive and a demonstration of proper actualization but has no active effects. Many crones teach this to newbies and require them to master it before continuing their studies.

Or just a ritual that does those effects?

>>50982625
>fairly amicable and productive discussion of actual WW products

It happens all the time. Unfortunately, we've gone full Aspel more frequently in recent months. Hopefully, with the American election over, and America being all Great Again (and most WW writers likely suffering severe depression), the political discussions will cool down to the occasional moaning and groaning about the inevitable condescending WW sidebar in new supplements.

>>50982616
>Someone on the forums saying they had them put in the Mummy chapter.

Link?

>>50982637
I dunno man being Imhotep would have its advantages. Sure it would be painful as fuck but you know what they say, no pain no gain.

>>50982637
>Haven't you seen The Mummy movie staring Brendan Frasier? The first one.
>There are worse things than death.

We shall not speak of said abomination ever again.

>>50982726
>America was ever great

Only yanks believe that line

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>>50982757
Fuck you the Mummy is a classic.

>>50982620

>Unbridled Chaos
>change the weather without being harmed by any negative weather effects

>Obrimos not impressed.

>Primal Creation
>Shit grows, mutates, and becomes more fertile..

>Laughing Thyrsus

Mage 1: "You know, those vampires claim to practice powerful blood magic."

Mage 2: "I know. They think they're real scary too. It's just so adorably sad."

Mage 1: "Those wacky undead are always good for a laugh."

>>50982776

Isn't that clip from the Mummy 2 or 3, both movies somehow managing to be even worse than the first?

BTW, what's Brendan Frasier even up to these days?

>>50982819
Nope, Benny dies in the first one.

And he's paying absurd amounts of alimony to his cunt wife, thats what he's doing.

>>50982765
>America was ever great
>Only yanks believe that line

Yea, where would we get that idea. It's not like we're the largest economy, have the most powerful military, are the biggest cultural exporter and scientific innovator, and are the oldest modern democracy, to say nothing of ending two world wars in the last century and saving the world from involuntarily speaking German, Japanese or Russian.

>>50982620
Is there dowoad for Secret of the Covenants?

>>50982870
wealth
huge stores of natural sources
no major wars on its main land
giant bread belt
huge tracks of land

these are the reasons America is powerful. not why it's great. you're confusing the two

Russia won both great wars logistically the west just took credit for it. America beat jap then dropped two nukes as shows of strength. American history is so confused with itself

>>50982741
When I get far enough along with my players I'm going to see if anyone wants to play OWOD Mummy 2nd Ed. Screw this new Mummy shit. Waking up with no memory of who you are gets old after the first chronicle (all the mystery is gone after that). Far better to have an immortal who has to grapple with the world changing and everyone they know dying, it makes a striking and effective metaphor for becoming Elderly.

>What worst of woes await with age?
>What etches lines deeper cross the brow?
>To stand there lonely on life's page;
>To be alone, as I am now
>---- Childe Harold's Pilgramage

>>50982870
Keep telling yourself that.

>>50982958

You didn't address the fact that America is, and has been for some time, the world's largest cultural exporter and scientific innovator, everything from the movies and television you watch, the websites you view and patronize, the gadgets you enjoy (often derived originally from American military tech such as GPS), or the fact that world commerce, communication and diplomacy requires much of the world to learn English.

As for Russia, I was also talking about the Cold War, not just WWI and WWII. Now that Putin is acting up, and Trump doesn't appear particularly inclined to stop his aggression, it's both sad and fun watching much of the free world beginning to panic.

Is American powerful? Without a doubt. However, American raw economic and military power are just some facets of what makes it Great.

>>50983038
Well..I mean he's not fucking wrong. Denying the power of America is like a Barbarian saying the Roman Empire are a bunch of weak pussies.

http://www.gamerpunk.com/vampire-bloodlines-trademark-filed-by-white-wolf/

I can't believe I missed this news.

>>50983108
>Denying the power of America is like a Barbarian saying the Roman Empire are a bunch of weak pussies.

Didn't the Barbarians cross the Rubicon and sack the city of Rome multiple times? Sounds like a bunch of weak pussies to me.

But sure, congratulate them for putting down slave uprisings. *oooh*

>>50982724
Possibly? I mean, ultimately there are a ton of useful Cruac rituals, it's just that I wish you could set up your candles and your altar and just summon up a gross little homunculus that does what you tell it but still gets in the way.

>>50982726
Anon, I've been in this thread for literal years. Even when I don't take part in it, it's rarely amicable and certainly never productive.

>>50982741
Cursing someone with superpowers is always a bad idea, but I don't want to be eaten alive by scarabs no matter what.

>>50982757
Fuck you, The Mummy was great and I need to watch it again and ugh, they're remaking it with a sexy female Mummy and the crazy cultist in real life is the one saving the world from the Mummy and her crazy cult in the movie.

>>50982808
And then the Acolyte with Opening the Void style uses Birthing the God and spends a point of Willpower to suck the Mage into what may be the Abyss or at least a Lower Depth.

>>50982870
Russia ended WWII, America just helped. It's also far from the benchmark of Democracy, considering how many people are disenfranchised, in some cases literally, especially since last year saw the Voting Rights Act gutted. There's also everything mentioned in the opening rant of that Aaron Sorkin show with the Republican who's not like any of those other Republicans, and talks with a Sorkinesque flair. While walking, of course.
And of course there's America's shall we say "complicated" history with foreign relations, particularly in propping up dictatorships and creating the forces that currently plague the Middle East and elsewhere.

>>50983038

Where are you from? I will be more than happy to compare and contrast.

For the record, I'm not claiming that America is perfect or without faults, historically or today. Nor am I claiming that other countries are somehow insignificant or without their own proud achievements. However, to deny American accomplishments and leadership in virtually all fields, endeavors and spheres of influence, no less for a country so comparatively young in the western world, is just textbook denial. You might hate or resent the influence America is able and willing to exert because of those accomplishments, but the fact remains that the complaints only exist because of American power and greatness.

>>50983134
The Roman Empire lasted for a thousand years (even longer if you count the Byzantines as a continuation of the Empire). Their influence is still felt to this day all across the Western world. The Barbarians were a bunch of primitives that got conquered and then got lucky.

But really you should be proud anon, you're the first person I've met retarded enough to consider the Roman Empire to be a bunch of weak pussies.

>>50983161
Er, that should say 500 years. Fuck editing.

>>50983154
>Where are you from?

I am a Human from Earth.

All other distinctions are arbitrary lies drawn across your face to blind you from your true birthright. For we are all one Brotherhood of Man, and the "nations" you so jingoistically honor are nothing more than arbitrary lines on a map.

Do the birds listen to your immigration laws? Do you think cats or dogs care about your borders?

Wake up.

>>50983136
Fuck off and plot to kill your parents more, Aspel. Then die from a cop bullet.

>>50983136

Oded Fehr was the only saving grace in the Mummy franchise. Somehow his foreign campiness and great voice are a small salve in otherwise terrible movies and television shows.

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>>50983177
>For we are all one Brotherhood of Man, and the "nations" you so jingoistically honor are nothing more than arbitrary lines on a map.
>he thinks humans have ever peacefully coexisted with each other and ever will

>>50983185
What about the drunk british pilot with the deathwish? he was pretty good.

>>50983161
"Oh no! The Picts! Quick, build a fucking wall, Hadrian!!!"

Like I said, *total* pussies. They would have been utterly fucked if they'd made it all the way to China and met some fucking gunpowder. But sure, call me a retard because you're cheerleading over professional soldiers exterminating what amounted to ill-equipped Gaelic peasant mobs. W000t.

>>50983186
>he thinks humans have ever peacefully coexisted with each other

Prove they haven't, Bill Nye the Faggot Guy.

>>50983177
>Birds, cats and dogs
I really don't care about the opinions of food and pets

>>50982870
Soviet Union was powerful to. China will be more powerful sooner or later. Doesn't mean they are great.

>>50983228
What a coincidence! They don't care about your opinions, either. They just want you to die so they can eat your flesh. But go on, cultivate that sense that you are somehow important, if it keeps you from suicide.

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>>50983018
Not every Mummy is going to have the same history...

>>50983091
>>50983108
No one is denying the power. But Great and Powerful aren't the same, even if Oz managed to pull it off. America has a history of human rights abuses longer than some dictatorships (many of whom were put into power by America) and saying that it's the largest cultural and scientific innovator a) isn't necessarily true, and b) is actually seen by some to be part of the problem. America has cultural hegemony over the world, and often drowns out local culture. America's culture is also a hogepodge, often done by Hollywood scooping up foreign actors.
I'm also not even sure it's the largest scientific innovator. Most research seems to be foreign, partly because America is so bad at actually funding the sciences. And arts, for that matter. Not to mention that most of the technology is designed and definitely manufactured in South East Asia
English being the Lingua Franca isn't even necessarily because of America; it was already becoming a thing even before America was the powerhouse that it is today.
https://youtu.be/q49NOyJ8fNA

When children go to bed hungry and people go to sleep on the streets in the richest country in the world, where wealth inequality is staggering and nothing is done of social ills because people feel morally justified in letting the proles die, that's not greatness. When abuses against minorities are justified and praised, and the abusers face no recrimination, that's not great. When people deny discrimination exists simply because the surface level problems of inequality have been fixed without changing the underlying structural issues, that's not great.

>“It little matters to me whether you shoot a man or starve him to death by inches.”

>>50983119
I think we all talked about that back in June, though it's not really a big deal. Filing a trademark doesn't actually mean they plan on doing anything. Tons of trademarks get filed for projects that go nowhere

>>50983241
>The greatest superpower known to humankind
>Not great
Nice memes aspie

>>50983136
>opening rant of that Aaron Sorkin

Sadly, your knowledge and understanding of American jurisprudence and politics extends to little more than a television show. How sad. Do you even know what parts of the Voting Rights Act were struck down and why, and can you actually offer evidence of this purported disenfranchisement other than repeating talking points.

It reminds me of how some decry voter id and assert we should be more like liberal Europe without realizing that much of Europe (and Canada and Australia) requires an id to vote.

>Russia ended WWII, America just helped

Forgetting the hundreds of thousands of American lives lost because Europeans seem unable to stop killing one another or committing genocide, I believe you're forgetting the part where America rebuilt most of Europe after WWII, prevented the Soviet Union from occupying Western Europe along with the East, or effectively liberated Eastern Europe as in prevailed in the Cold War.

>>50983210
Because Carthage wasnt a thing, or the Persians, or the Huns. Hell the Byzantium Empire kept a shitload of motherfuckers out of Europe before Venice went full happy merchant on them.

>>50983185
You just can't appreciate fun.
I wish adventure movies were like the Mummy movies or the Pirates movies. Not even Pirates of the Caribbean is like Pirates anymore.

>>50983177
>Do you think cats or dogs care about your borders?
How else could they beg to cross them, then sit there whining that they want to come back, only to try going out again?

Look at all this discussion of roleplaying games.

>>50983260
>Europeans seem unable to stop killing one another or committing genocide
It's not like America's got that down pat either...

>>50982870
>oldest modern democracy
Who are the Dutch

>>50983272
At least they had the decency to pretend to hate it in the 1900s..

Someone said this was the thread for .pdf files.

Aspel thought they said "pedophiles" and hasn't left us since.

>>50983268
>coming here to talk about roleplaying games
You poor fool.

>>50983241
>Not every Mummy is going to have the same history...

So you don't even get to keep a character for more than one Chronicle? This just keeps getting shittier.

>>50983272
>Europeans seem unable to stop killing one another or committing genocide
>It's not like America's got that down pat either..

Have you studied any European history, ancient or modern?

Americans are rank amateurs and poseurs in matters of gratuitous bloodletting and genocide compared to our European friends.

>>50983268
>Look at all this discussion of roleplaying games.

There's always time and space to discuss American greatness, if only as a counterbalance to the self-hating tripe contained in so many WW sidebars.

>>50983313
Well, you're young still.

>>50983260
>Australia requires an id to vote.

No, it doesn't. You show up and say
>"I am Anon McAnonson, of 123 Keksville Lane"
and they say
>"Let's see... Anon McAnonson... ah yes, here you are. This form is for the House of Reps, this one is for the Senate. Number boxes 1 - 14 below the line, or just 1 above the line, then place your vote in that box."

In case you're not following, yes, that means it's perfectly possible for the same person to vote six or seven times, assuming they go to different polling booths each time. It's possible to vote in someone else's name if you know their address. Not everyone does it, though, because even just 6 votes isn't usually enough to make any kind of difference, so it's usually done by the drunk, the confused and elderly, the mentally ill or anarchists trying to fuck with the system and discredit it.

>>50983313
Well considering America's a baby country which only came into its own in a period of comparatively significant tolerance, and its only neighbours are mooses and drug dealers, that's not really a high bar to reach.

>>50983343
And your post just showed why voter id laws are a good fucking idea.

>>50983261
Carthage? Wankers. No idea how to make proper allies.

Persians? Wankers. Most of their army were slaves.

Huns? Wankers. Still got the Romans in the end, though.

So your vaunted Empire beat other spastics to a pulp, big fucking deal.

>>50983243
Again, you're ignoring the fact that "Great" has connotations of value judgement. When someone says "this meal was great", they don't mean that it was the biggest or most expensive, they meant that it tasted good.
>>50983260
Anon, just because I used a well written TV show soapbox to illustrate a point doesn't mean that it's the sum total of my understanding of the subject. Also, the notion of strict voter restrictions is pointless, because it's designed to stop a problem that doesn't exist. In doing so, it keeps people from having the franchise. Which is the actual goal of it in the first place. You'd have to be naive to think otherwise.

>>50983268
>mfw people will blame me for starting this shit even though I was the one who wanted to talk about Cruac style.

>>50983293
What are you even getting at? You seem like you're trying to say something profound, but it just comes off as dumb. Yes, you can play multiple stories with the same character, but what does that have to do with the fact that not every character is going to have the same history?
Your argument was that playing a Mummy would get boring the second time. Why do you say that? How would being an amnesiac be boring the second time [even though the past you uncover isn't going to be the same] but being a Mummy who's just your standard immortal *isn't* going to get boring the second time, even though "I'm really old and everyone or everything I know is dead" is going to be the same every time *and* is already what you're doing in Vampire?

>>50983313
No they aren't. America's 200 some years has been filled with genocide, subjugation, oppression, and subverting the sovereignty of foreign nations in a way that no other country has ever matched. Shit, it's practically the main argument people are making for America's "Greatness".

>>50983343
They also mark your name off on the record of all people in the council, which is then later scanned, and will show if you've voted more than once.

When they use the tablets, like they did last NSW state election, they can even tell if you've already voted.

That being said, yes, you can completely fuck up a few people's capacity to vote by pretending to be them.

However that's going to do NOTHING to the overall result.

>>50983276

Dutch?

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/jul/11/paul-ryan/paul-ryan-claims-us-oldest-democracy-world-he-righ/

>>50983292
I just really like Vampire :( I guess I should have known that the intersection of Vampire and 4chan would be absolute shit.

>>50983313
"Who remembers the Armenians?" pointed out Hitler as he fired up the gas barbecue.

There's nothing new under the sun.

>>50983356
Fuck off and die, Aspel

>>50983360
>When they use the tablets, like they did last NSW state election, they can even tell if you've already voted.

I have literally no reason to fear government use of technology.

google up what happened to the last government census in Australia.

>>50983343

Voting ID laws

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws

>>50983354
Some laws, sure, but not making it difficult for people to be able to legally vote.
>>50983360
I'd imagine that's also both illegal and rare, if it even happens at all.
>>50983362
Calling the US a democracy in general is kind of a stretch, considering both it's Representative Republic nature as well as it's history of voter suppression, gerrymandering, and other bullshit meant to subvert the actual democratic process.

>>50983362
>hurr durr what's da Frensh Revolooshun?

>>50983365
Hey, it works when Aspel is asleep.

>>50983382
>In Australia, where voting is compulsory for all adult citizens, no form of ID is required to cast a ballot at an election; instead, voters are asked three questions before being issued a ballot, so that they can be checked off the electoral roll: (1) what is your full name; (2) where do you live; and (3) have you voted before in this election?[1] On election day, voters can vote at any polling place in their state of residence, and at selected polling places in other states.

I'm confused. Are you backing me up, or trying to argue? Because there's nothing here that contradicts what I said.

>>50983362
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_(Netherlands)

>>50983356
>used a well written TV show soapbox to illustrate a point

Res ipsa Aspel

>America's 200 some years has been filled with genocide, subjugation, oppression, and subverting the sovereignty of foreign nations in a way that no other country has ever matched

First, you are obviously totally and completely ignorant of world history, particularly that of Europe (including Russia) and Asia. Just as a starter, read up on Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

Second, assuming America is a mere fraction of what you suggest, you don't reach such heights of power and influence as anything resembling a democracy without being pretty fuckin' great.

You don't really appear to actually contest America's greatness,you simply resent that it's used such greatness in a way you didn't approve and has no plans to stop..

>>50983419

Local water boards are not evidence of *national" democracy.

Are you claiming the water boards were sovereign nations?

>>50983380
I know Anon, I didn't imply that you should.
I worked that election.
Despite it taking longer than with the books, it was quite helpful.

>>50983404
>>50983442
Oh my God, just shut the fuck up.
We get it, you measure GREATNESS in military units and money, agree with strict voter laws, and in general blahblah no one fucking cares I just want to talk about Goddamned vampire witches.

>>50983396
>>50983365
No it fucking doesn't, anon, and you're not helping either. Let's just ignore whether or not America is or isn't great as measured by the metrics of a Sid Meier game and just talk about vampires.

I actually think that Birthing the God (or Opening the Void style) could make for an interesting character concept. I mean, I like the idea of playing weird things like Jiangshi, and being a vampire Promethean is pretty neat.

Also, as another neat thing in Secrets of the Covenants: The Spina Discipline is now a Fighting Style taught by the Invictus.

>Establish the Duel (•) lets you declare one specific person your opponent, and anyone else who comes in melee range of you takes 1L, and you add Weaponry to your Defense against them.
>Value of the Spoken Word (••) lets you sub in Expression/Socialize/Subterfuge for Weaponry or Athletics, or swap Presence/Strength or Manipulation/Dexterity.
>Demanding Attention (•••) means anyone who tries to break off dueling you takes lethal damage equal to your Socialize dots and is knocked to the ground.

I'm not sure if it's better or worse than it was before, but it's a pretty interesting fighting style for 2e, that's for sure.

>>50983591
>Sid Meier

Definitely understands greatness.

>Secrets of the Covenants

Not an example ot WW supplement greatness.

>>50977048
I could have sworn a book called Secrets of the Tribes was announced, but I can't find anything about it so I might just be making stuff up.

>>50982808
Someone once did the math and apparently a properly built blood sorcerer could kill everyone on Earth with a single spell. It might have actually encompassed the solar system.

>>50983764
That reminds me of the reddit thread where someone calculated a Beast with the right build could pick up the Empire State Building and twat someone with it.

No prizes for guessing who, in this thread, tried to argue it wasn't in any way broken or imbalanced....

>>50983591
>Oh my God, just shut the fuck up.

No. Fight me, you colossal cum-guzzling queen.

Would the Mysterium add a former thief to their ranks? seems like they'd have a few around for when all that sweet knowledge is owned by someone else.

>property rights? fuck off possession is nine tenths of the law and our magic is the last tenth.

>>50983941
>No prizes for guessing who, in this thread, tried to argue it wasn't in any way broken or imbalanced....
Actually, I pointed out that it literally doesn't work.
For it to even be unbalanced there'd have to be something that it would be balanced against, and for it to be broken would mean that it doesn't do what it says it does. You made a shit argument. You presented some numbers [that don't actually add up] and then said "it's strong so it's wrong".

>>50983951
>Would the Mysterium add a former thief to their ranks?
Why *wouldn't* they? Most of them are already thieves of one type or another, with the whole Order being made up of people who would gladly rob graves. On top of that you've got positions like the Censor that are basically magical repo men.

>>50983973
>Why *wouldn't* they?
I dunno man reading up on the AA I figured all the orders would have standards of some kind, and 'no criminals pls' seems like it would be a common one.

>>50983951
Of course they would, they have an order legacy full of them.

Motherfucking Reality Stalkers.

>>50983983
And let them fall into Seer hands?
Fuck that.

If they pass the tests showing they have a suitable mentality and approach for a Diamond Order, or perhaps the Council, then you look past their past mistakes.

I mean, it's not like they can get away with that shit now that they're a baby Mage and you have Sentinels and so forth to sic on their ass.

>>50983973
jesus CHRIST will you just shup and fuck off? I swear to fuck, Aspel, if you don't fuck off I'm going to start telling everyone in this thread I topped you, took your ass virginity and then dumped you by the side of the New Jersey Turnpike like a fucking Bangbus slut

Is the Shadow Name Merit the best way to incentivice to use a certain kind of magic. Like I want a Obrimos the focuses of Wind and Air so I take a Shadow name Sylph. Is there any other mechanics that incentivize a magic theme?

>>50984039
Well, you could maintain a few environmental yantras around your local stomping ground, dedicate a path tool, found a legacy themed in an appropriate way, get a familiar with a suitable power set, get an imbuued item or artifact which supplements that theme, focus your nimbus around it, take all praxes and rotes around that theme...

Secrets of the Covenants is pretty disappointing, to be honest. I expected some sort of 2e version of the covenant books, but all I got was mostly insipid fiction and ridiculously over the top powers.

>>50984415

They did mention at the beginning of development that it was going to be more like the Clanbooks. I suppose it's because there's really not much from the 1e Covenant books that wouldn't just carry over to their 2e versions?

>>50984486
I must have missed that. Anyway, having a longer presentation of the traditional covenants or a couple of new ones would be great for both new and old players than what we got.

>>50983983
Even the Adamantine Arrow has use for thieves. Hell, "criminal turned crime fighter" is a pretty common trope for a reason.

>>50984039
Shadow Name is pretty great for that.

>>50984569

I completely agree but I actually do get why they'd go this route. In theory, Secrets wouldn't have been out too long after 2e core, and since 2e does like to make sure that it's slightly backward compatiable, it would have been an easier ask to go pick up the 1e Covenant books. It just didn't end up turning out that way.

>>50982883
>Secrets
CTRL+F Secrets, it's up the thread, fucking do some research.

>>50983119
That really doesn't mean a whole lot other than 'we want to potentially do something with this name'. It's like Hasbro trademarking Transformer names every now and again, so they can do SOMETHING with it.

>>50984588
Well, 2e was released 3 years ago. You'd think they'd find the time to change Secrets a bit when it became obvious it wouldn't be out anytime close to it.

>>50984790
How would they have changed it, and why?
>>50984569
>>50984588
Why would they just completely rehash the original Covenant books, except in a shorter form? The purpose of Secrets of the Covenants is just to give in character flash views of some Covenant stuff in 2e and give a few merits and powers. It does exactly what they want it to do. It was never intended to be anything different than what it is (and it was actually in development limbo for quite a while, it's not like they were actively writing for it all this time)

>>50984790
You expect anything more than bare minimum from OPP for anything that isn't a Kickstarter project?

>>50984607
You don't think the single most successful Masquerade vidya - actually, the single most successful WoD vidya, given the state of the Hunter games - the one with hundreds if not thousands of fans inquiring about a sequel, a game that people still re-install when someone mentions it, a game that people love despite the fact it went live utterly broken and continues to be lovingly patched and upgraded by a community of modders, a game that White Wolf themselves are pestered over at every convention they attend, a game that could easily use the resources and assets that were created for the failed MMORPG that are currently sitting on a hard-drive waiting to be used; this game is NOT currently under top secret negotiations to be made? Despite two of the original designers now being under mysterious contract to WWP?

I don't know whether you have an unrealistic appraisal of White Wolf Publishing's greed, or you just think people file these papers and hire copyright lawyers for shits and giggles. Hasbro and the Transformers example is spectacularly redundant - they are always pursuing the possibility of a new media product, it's just that a massive amount of media projects die in the womb, or "development hell" as it's known in the biz. Hasbro don't do it "just in case" - you're confusing the whole thing with "copyright squatting", which genuinely is just sitting on trademarks hoping someone will offer you cash for them (which happened for like 50 years with the Lord of the Rings before the films were made), a process committed by greedy individuals, not greedy companies. Greedy companies want exposure, tie-in deals, merchandise, TV and radio spots, a happy meal toy and a mobile game. Copyright squatters just want a briefcase full of money.

>>50985646
Calm down and don't blow a gasket, dude. Realistically, filing trademarks and copyrights is done to secure a name for use. In other businesses like toys and movies, it's to prevent something you WANT to use from being snagged. I'm not saying they AREN'T making something with it, but filing a trademark does not necessarily mean they are immediately doing someting with it.

File: Hidden-Street-Weapons.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

So way back in the 2000's I remember the game Exalted was being pushed as the back story to the World of Darkness. Now, I keep reading veiled references to that being dropped not long after because "White Wolf realized it wouldn't work."

I know nothing of Exalted. Why did they drop Exalted as the story of the "Third Age of the Great Wheel" in the oWoD? What did Exalted have that couldn't be reconciled with existing oWoD canon?

>pdf totally unrelated but possibly useful for Modern Nights games

>>50985777
>telling someone already calm to calm down

I'm all out of grass, nigga

> filing a trademark does not necessarily mean they are immediately doing someting with it.

Given that six months have passed since the news broke, I think that goes without saying.

>>50985795
It wasn't so much 'it wouldn't work' but they realized it was more work than they cared to do. Plus it was happening at the time of the End of the World stuff was coming out (like, the biggest place it was noted? Was in the front of the Laws of the Ascension special edition hardback LARP book). It was not feasible to do and was, overall, kinda dumb.

>>50985795
It was just awkward to implement, and would have been solely to the detriment of Exalted as a game (which admittedly still turned out shit).

They have little links here and there, like the castes of the Infernal Exalted being groups from WoD demon or something, but nothing overt.

The SotC link expired. Anyone willing to share it again?

>>50984818

>Why would they just completely rehash the original Covenant books, except in shorter form?

Every edition could be someone's first, much like how every book could be someone's first. The 2e core does a decent job of summing up as much as they can about the Covenants with a very limited wordcount, but I think a book that went over the day-to-day function of the Covenants along with Merits and powers would have been more welcomed this early in the line.

There's also just enough of an update to the Covenants and to the setting that I wouldn't really call that a rehash. An updated compilation, maybe.

>It was never intended to be anything different than what it is.

Right, but Secrets feels like a book that should have been the third or so book in the line, as opposed to the first. For example, The Pack is a better choice for a first book for Werewolf since it expands on a very new aspect and very important aspect for play. So is Beast Player's Guide, since it will expand on character options and playing the game. Same for The Hedge, which goes into detail for a major part of the setting. And again, same for Signs of Sorcery, a natural jumping off point for Mage 2e's core.

Secrets isn't a bad book, but a good part of the disappointment comes from most of it being less directly relevant to someone's game, which can sting a bit considering that it took three years for the first Vampire sourcebook to come out.

>>50986799
I think that Secrets does a good job of selling the "feel" of the Covenants, which is really all you need. 2e seems to take a much more organic approach, where things aren't as strict and there's a lot of room for the group to define things for themselves. Which is honestly what I prefer. I mean, I agree that they could have done that, I just don't really see why they would.

>Right, but Secrets feels like a book that should have been the third or so book in the line, as opposed to the first.
I honestly can't think of what would have been better. I mean, Vampire is more or less sold on it's politics, so having more of the political/religious ideologies and how those characters think and act seems pretty fitting for what the average troupe is going to want. I mean, much as I love the sound of them, A Thousand Years of Night and Half-Damned certainly don't fit as first supplements.

What would you have preferred? It really seems like you want Secrets of the Covenants, but not IC.

Should I buy the Chronicles of Darkness rulebook if I just plan on getting the supernatural splats?

>>50986705
https://www.sendspace.com/file/8hwdwf

>>50986994
It's worth it, yes. The rules are more comprehensive, and it has additional rules like horror and equipment creation, chases, Fate, and more merits. Vampire also doesn't have Tilts at all, so there's that, too.

>>50987108
What's fate?

How mant dots is an artifact that fires aimed spells at firearms speed like the merit?

>>50986911

>I think that Secrets does a good job of selling the "feel" of the Covenants, which is all you really need.

I agree that it sells the feel well. That's great for us, experienced players and STs, and not so great for just coming into the game, so I don't agree that it's all the book really needs at all.

You prefer it because you, like me, are already familiar with the ins and outs of the setting. You don't need to worry about how to play them, because you already know. That might not be the case for someone coming in because they say Requiem 2e get recommended on Geek and Sundry or something like that. There is a place for a mostly IC book in Vampire 2e's line. It's just shouldn't be the first book in the line.

>I honestly can't think of what would have been better.

Out of the books that we know exist, I would say that Half-Damned would have been a better choice for a first post-core release. Politics are important to Vampires, but so are their relationships to Mortals and the greater world around them, so a book about the templates focused on the liminal space between the Mortal and the Vampire being the first sourcebook wouldn't have been a bad idea.

But Secrets was probably being pre-developed at a time when 2e was Blood and Smoke, so it would make sense to have it be the first post B&S then, because the 1e Covenant books would still be in active use. Now we're in a full 2e, where it doesn't make as much sense anymore, but at that point you can't really control where the schedule goes.

It's not a bad book, it just got put in the wrong place in the line. It doesn't really matter what you or I would prefer in the end, what's done is done.

File: WwIIDeathsByCountry.png (39KB, 795x549px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 795x549px

>>50983260
>American History Classes are retarded

Can you sustain Vitae Addiction with your own blood? Is this cheating?

>>50988262
>Can you sustain sex addiction with masturbation?

of course not

Did I miss an argument about Mummy?

>>50983136
>And of course there's America's shall we say "complicated" history with foreign relations, particularly in propping up dictatorships and creating the forces that currently plague the Middle East and elsewhere.
You say that like the socialists didn't do that as well.

>>50988199
Bare in mind most of those deaths were from Russians killing themselves, either by sending soldiers into a meat grinder, from the elements, or just shooting there own troops.

Lets be honest if WWII was a group school project then Russia was that kid who wrote the conclusion so they could feel like they had a meaningful impact. While the USA was more like the proof reader, until the entire group realized they had to write a whole page on the pacific and actually started to contribute.

>>50988284
Let me rephrase:

As a vampire, can you sustain your Vitae Addiction with your own Vitae? Is this cheating?

>>50988844
>As a Vampire, can you sustain sex addiction with masturbation?

of course not

I really want to play Mummy but I honestly don't understand it at all.

My character concept is decreed to Name and a "Snake in the Grass" personality. Other than that, that's all I got.

Someone help

>>50988861
It's still Vitae though. Vitae = Vitae = Vitae. It's not like you can only get off on the Vitae of one vamp.

>>50988902
You can't satisfy an addiction by not adding more of the thing you're addicted to

Either play a character not addicted to vitae or play a character who eats people

>>50988940
Are you thick in the face, mate? The addiction is to Vitae. If a vampire is addicted to Vitae, what's stopping him from ripping into his own supply? Bite down on that wrist of his and just suck until the sun comes up.

>>50988988
Fine, whatever. Ask your ST

>>50988988
ok, but you lose a blood point every day to waking up and whatever else you spend through the night. so you're gonna have to refill at some point. drinking your own blood doesnt add extra blood to your supply.

>>50988608
Anon, I'm not Aspel, but roughly 70% of German combat units were focused on Soviet troops during the second world war. They didn't single handedly end the war, but they did contribute a lot more than most western nations would like to admit.

>>50989064
Well yeah, obviously. But that'd be the only way in which the supply runs dry, right? Consuming your own Vitae wouldn't make it lost.

I was just thinking about how vampire rehab would look like, for those addicted to the juice. Would be a very difficult thing to kick, as it is so very readily availabke. I mean, you get penalized to resist temptations. But your own body is a temptation.

>>50988901

Ask me questions and I shall answer!

>>50989163
>I was just thinking about how vampire rehab would look like, for those addicted to the juice.

Heroin addicts don't inject drugs, then drain it out of themselves and then reinject it. They get a synthetic alternative and therapy.

>>50989191
But heroin addicts would eat their own face if it naturally contained enough quantities of heroin to get them off. That's the point.

>>50989225
It's cheating.

There, you asked in the original post if it was cheating, and yes it is. It's fucking stupid and not how addiction works as well, but primarily it is cheating.

If your ST allows it then good for you. No need to keep trying to justify it, if you are both cool with fudging a rule then fudge away

>>50989183
So what is the Decree of Name effectively mean? That's their x-splat, yeah?

>>50989311
Don't worry, this is purely theoretical.

I'm not sure how it's stupid. I feel like you're just saying that because.

This is pretty much how addiction works. I'm not sure how you think that is the problem here. You are addicted to Vitae, not to a specific vampire's Vitae. You have Vitae in your system. You should roll to resist lapping your own wounds, at the very least. From there it is no small leap towards automutilating, deprivation avoidance behaviours.

It's a logical consequence of the addiction. A crippling realization that you can get high off of your own supply. You will easily slip away into the comfortable couch of your haven, sucking the bliss out of your own veins. No longer longing to do anything else. Only leaving the house for a quick, murderous feeding session, to replenish your stash.

I'm also not sure if it is necessarily cheating. It might seem to be cheating in the beginning, but after a while your character is fucked beyond recognition. They'll need some serious intervention.

Yeah. I'd play this. Base my char on DFW or something. Real douchebag.

>>50989361

Kinda. In narrative terms, Decree is what aspect of yourself you still had after going literally through hell and being faced by a panel of godlike judges. When your soul had been stripped bare with knives, the thing you had left to declare was your Namr, your true nature, your endless curiosity and insatiable need to understand the workings of the world. Being serpent-headed means that while the world changes in new and crazy ways and your own memory has faded to dust, your drive to know remains strong.

Your cults are likely scholarly, and if not then they're thugs who bring you knowledge. The obvious pair-up with the Decree of Ren is the Sesha-Hebsu, the Scribes, but any Guild can have Serpents.

>>50983951
>>50983973
>>50983983

>Would the Mysterium add a former thief to their ranks?

Supernal magic is the domain and right of the Awakened. One does not "steal" what is rightfully theirs. "Liberating" magic from Sleepers prevents Pancryptia. Failure to rescue magic serves the Lie.

Accordingly, those who Awaken with the skills, expertise and inclination to assist the Mysterium in the recovery of magic should be recruited to the Order and encouraged in their pursuits. If these mages wish to occasionally dispossess a mundane of their worldly goods, it is none our concern.

>>50987167
>What's fate?

Oh boy...

What game line are you referring to? Fate has many incarnations in the CofD.

>>50988608
>Russians are cannibals
whatever gets you off kid

Why hasn't DaveB given us new Signs of Sorcery spoilers for 6 months or provided an update about the status of the book? I've already given up on ever seeing the Mage FAQ or promised Legacy updates.

I fear Deviant is sucking up all his free time, and Mage is now suffering.

>>50989968
He was let go anon, weeks ago

>>50989950

No, but Russia combat strategy in WWII appeared to be little more than using its troops as cannon fodder and winning by sheer numbers.

Such a strategy would be inconceivable in the USA. The greater number of Russian casualties, while certainly tragic, is not necessarily evidence that Russia did more to win the war, only that they were less efficient in their efforts.

>>50990029
>DaveB was let go anon, weeks ago

On the plus side, I hear that we should expect an improvement in the writing on Shadowrun.

Mage and Deviant might languish, but dammit we'll have machine gun wielding elves and dwarves.

>>50990029
[citation needed]

>>50989470
>Why can't I just cheat my flaws!
I don't know ask your ST

>>50989968
Everyone who works for OPP is a freelancer. If he has any other contracts with other companies that pay more, he may be working on those, since OPP doesn't give a shit about 'deadlines' and such things.

>>50990055
Hey man if you just want to 1984 your current enemy of state. That's not on me. I mean your original premise was Russian squaring up in lines and shooting each other in the face

>>50990029
>>50990110

If you're going to keep the meme up, you can at least make it more plausible. He's not an employee, he can't be "let go".

>>50990172
Are you retarded? Read. It's not cheating the flaw, it's diving in head first, drowning yourself in the flaw. In fact, I'd say it's cheating if you don't start getting off on your own Vitae.

>Any time he’s faced with further opportunities to drink Vitae, he must indulge, succeed in a Resolve + Composure roll, or gain the Deprived Condition
>Any time

So, from the moment you wake up, until the moment you die for the day, you should be tempted to feast on your own Vitae.

That's not cheating. That's escalation.

>>50990055
Maybe Russia suffered more loses than the Western allies, but they were the ones who defeated around 70% of the German armed forces, without counting the minor Axis members. It's also important to consider that much of the Russian loses were suffered in 1941 when they were taken by surprise, and that many more were civilians and prisoners of war massacred by the Germans, starved or worked to death.

>>50987167

Fate is the CofD mechanic that will not die.

Originally, there was a mechanic called Fate where the God-Machine has a pre-determined end for everyone. You create a Fate for your character when you create them, and playing off your Fate can help you sometimes.

It was a bit too confusing in play, so it was cut from the first printing of the God-Machine Chronicle. The version of the GMC that got put into CofD Core was an earlier version than the final one, which had references to Fate as a mechanic. Angels can sense a Mortal's Fate as a Numina for example.

So they decided to put in Fate as an Optional Mechanic for CofD core, and here we are.

Can somebody reupload Secrets of the Covenants pleace? Link from the previous thread expired.

>>50990231

I was not the same Anon who claimed Russians were killing each other. Nevertheless, Russia's WWII combat strategy amounted to little more than a gratuitous war of attrition.

If the question is whether Russia suffered horribly in WWII and made a tremendous contribution to war effort, the answer is undeniably "yes." However, history questions whether Russia needlessly or callously sacrificed so many soldiers to achieve victory. Similarly, Russian efforts are independent from American contributions, without which war would likely have not been won.

>>50990411
>without which war would likely have not been won.
I highly disagree with that. It would have been prolonged, yes, but the Axis ultimately would have been crushed. Maybe not Japan, though, since they had the non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union.

>>50990452
>but the Axis ultimately would have been crushed. Maybe not Japan, though, since they had the non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union

The statement is inherently contradictory.

In any event, how do you think the world would look today with an truly isolationist (or defeated) USA, an ascendant Soviet Union, and an Imperial Japan.

Even with a militarized USA who employed atomic weapons and an occupied Japan, Europe was still carved up and the west essentially rebuilt on American largesse.

>>50990411
>Russia's WWII combat strategy amounted to little more than a gratuitous war of attrition
You are wrong. Russian strategy was much more complex than simply "throwing men at the problem until it goes away". It generally focused on defense in depth to surround enemy forces. I also agree with >>50990452. Even without American involvement beyond Lend-Lease the Axis was pretty much toast. Maybe Italy could have negotiated a peace and Finland gotten away with its 1939 borders, but that's it.

>>50990291
>Dave's not an employee, he can't be "let go".

Don't be pedantic. If a company suddenly refuses to use a prolific freelancer, for all intent and purposes, they are "let go."

If there is any doubt, ask AmyV.

>>50990410
>Secrets of the Covenants

https://www.sendspace.com/file/3y11su

>>50990410
>>50986999
>https://www.sendspace.com/file/8hwdwf

>>50987342
I guess I just don't really agree. I feel like if your only books are Secrets and the corebook that it'd be fine.

>>50988608
Anon, the Russians fighting like the Zerg doesn't change the fact that Hitler wasn't singing a Nirvana solo out of fear of the US army. Most actual WWII scholars agree Russia was the biggest threat to Germany, while the US just helped alleviate the stress in Europe.

>>50988988
>>50989163
>>50989470
Anon, if you're starving do you really think it helps to eat yourself? Consuming your own Vitae is the kind of thing that addicted, blood starved vampires would do, but it's also the kind of thing that wouldn't really stave off the addiction.

>>50989846
Let's be honest, the Mysterium also steals from other Mages.

>>50990754
>Anon, if you're starving do you really think it helps to eat yourself? Consuming your own Vitae is the kind of thing that addicted, blood starved vampires would do, but it's also the kind of thing that wouldn't really stave off the addiction.
Should'vve known I was talking to you. Fuck me right.

You have still not presented an argument for why it wouldn't really stave off addiction. Don't say sex is not masturbation. Cause the comparison doesn't hold. Vitae = Vitae.

It is not about starving and feeding yourself. It's about needing to get your fix and going to the extreme of eating yourself to get it.

>>50990754
>Let's be honest, the Mysterium also steals from other Mages.

If other mages use or preserve magic irresponsibly, no less risk Pancryptia, they effectively abdicate ownership. Such mages are often little better than Sleeper monkeys. I'm sure out friends in the Guardians would agree.

Am I missing something, or could the Carthians and Lance working together create the ultimate anti-magic fighter.

A Vampire with Resolve 5, Sorcerous Eunuch, 3 dots in Crusade, and 5 dots in Coda Against Sorcery would leverage a -13 passive penalty on anyone trying to cast a spell on them. By spending a point of Willpower they could remove 5 successes from any dice rolls against them.

Even if someone tried to just hit them with an area of effect spell instead of targeting them directly they would still receive a -8 penalty.

The only way I could see such a monstrosity being made would be if some magic user was enough of a danger to everyone that the Carthians and Lance decided something had to be done.

>>50990796
>Should'vve known I was talking to you. Fuck me right.
I literally just joined in. Your argument is fucking stupid, though. "Oh, I'm talking to Aspel" doesn't mean you're suddenly proven right. You not liking the people you're arguing with doesn't make them wrong, no matter how much you want that to be true.

Show me one place where the book suggests that a vampire can drink their own vitae. Period. Show me where a vampire can drink their own vitae *at all*, much less to satisfy their own vitae addictions. I'm not saying a vampire couldn't be driven to that, but arguing that it would super satisfy their addiction is childish, and doesn't really mean anything. It's gross and extreme, but at the same time it's the kind of thing that's mechanically "safe". You're not risking blood bonds or anything, you're just... well, you're just masturbating. And you've gone through an argument where a bunch of anons, not just me, have told you that this is stupid and ignores the setting for the sake of nothing, and is just cheating, like you first asked, but over the course of that argument you've convinced yourself that you're clever and it's good and that an ST should allow it because because.

>>50990882
I would argue that only the highest bonus would apply, and only up to -5.

>>50990662

No, that's still not letting people go, nor is it firing them. If you want your meme to catch on, you'll need to make it more plausible, with something that won't fall apart as soon as someone realizes that there's no announcement of Mage or Deviant changing hands. You can't depend on OPP being in winter mode for it to be plausible.

>>50991002
I already cited the line in the book that supports my argument. It's on p. 99. It goes like this:

>Any time he’s faced with further opportunities to drink Vitae, he must indulge, succeed in a Resolve + Composure roll, or gain the Deprived Condition
>Any time

Why would Vitae suddenly turn to dust in your mouth if it is your own Vitae? Why would a vampire not be able to drink it? I mean, it's not like that's going to keep them from spending a point upon sunrise. So they'll still need to feed regardless.

Show me one place where the book suggests that a vampire can't drink his own Vitae. You can't.

>>50990754

If your group is experienced at Requiem, sure, but probably not so much for a new ST or player, not to the same extent.

>>50991002
>Show me one place
That same p. 99:
>An addict could just let her wound heal, but instead, she pokes at it, she tongues it, she just can’t let go.

Check m8

>>50990882
>Am I missing something, or could the Carthians and Lance working together create the ultimate anti-magic fighter

yes you can but your mechanics are really off

>>50990882
>>50991002

Can a vampire with Sorcerous Eunuch even possess Coda Against Sorcery? Would the latter be considered "blood magic?"

I also agree with the latter Anon, the bonuses would not stack. You would get the higher of the two, up to the standard +/-5.

Moreover, there are ample indirect or personal uses of magic that readily circumvent the merit. A magic user need simply be a little creative and/or just use their magic to boost themselves for combat rather than attack directly.

Lastly, if it's discovered that such a magic-resistance character exists and even remotely presents a threat, the most powerful of the local supernatural population, mage, vampire and otherwise, would likely carefully and promptly remove such threat, more than likely directing mundane (and heavily armed and subtly and magically reinforced) assets against the character.

The over-specialized build described would come with a great big bullseye on their back.

>>50990882

Isn't the limits on any penalty and modifier hard capped at +/-5, now? Aside from specific situations, of course.

>>50987296
Artifacts cast spells, they don't grant attainments.

>>50990622
>>50990630
America was literally the player that sits in the corner does nothing and lets all the other players fuckwick themselves, then comes in at the end. They suffered the least losses, but claim the greatest glory. it wouldn't be so bad if they'd at least acknowledge it. But they're like the biggest sore winners, which is why no one likes them

>>50991327
So i can only give a +5 to rolls by using Physical Intensity?

>>50991485
Pretty sure Physical Intensity is once per turn use. So no.

>>50991320
>>50991002
I would stack. Not only are all of these penalties coming from different sources, but also it would hurt a Sorcerous Eunuch Crusade user when they were designed to got together.

And yeah, it totally would come with a bullseye on their back. I figure such a character would hold an official position in the vampire government with a title and everything so they'd have the system behind them. Besides, this character would probably suck to play unless you were in a sorcery heavy game and works better as an NPC.

It would probably work best as a Mekhet because all their Disciplines work well for someone who's supposed to fight magic users.

I never expected them to be unbeatable, just really good at their job.

>>50991327
I'm pretty sure they stack as long as they aren't from the same source. Multiple different penalties or bonuses do stack.

Which gameline is best for the Vietnam war? I'd originally thought Mage, but am now hardcore leaning towards a Changelig/Hunter crossover.

>>50989470
There's a Russian legend about a type of vampire that sits in it's tomb, chewing it's hands...

File: Pupper.png (281KB, 391x562px) Image search: [Google]

281KB, 391x562px

>>50991111
And yet the book doesn't act like "any time" means it's possible to drink from yourself. I can just as easily point to this line to show that you need to drink from OTHER vampires:
>” Some blood addicts resort to attacking other Kindred, or even committing Amaranth to get a fix. Many seek out contaminated blood when they casually hunt, using hard drugs as a tepid replacement for their true needs
There's also, again, no system for drinking your own vitae, and nothing that implies you can, aside from you bending over backwards to justify things with "well it doesn't say you can't".
>>50991147
Closer, but that doesn't say that it actually means anything mechanically, or lets her get around having to have a new source. Again, you could just as easily point to that as an example of a character *not* being able to get their fix. It's fascinating, but that doesn't mean that it's mechanically significant.

>>50991136
Like I said, I just don't agree with that. I don't really see why only Secrets and the corebook would make things difficult. I mean, there are no doubt plenty of people who already were running things using only the corebook. Secrets just allows for more interesting portrayals of the Covenants.

>>50991447

Until Pearl Harbor, America was not directly threatened. Maybe if Europe and Asia (and most everywhere else) weren't so damned genocidal, Americans could happily live in our corner of the planet with our peaceful neighbors to the north. Does anyone every wonder how the USA and Canada have maintained the largest land border in the world, and despite vast American military superiority, we have not only managed to never occupy Canada, but we are quite friendly with the border largely undefended.

Your argument is typical European hypocrisy. They constantly complain that America should mind its own business, but when shit hit the fan, usually in Europe, they expect America to clean up the mess while complaining that they should have fixed the problem sooner. You don't need to look to WWII for proof, just read up on Bosnia and Kosovo.

The simple fact of the matter is that hundreds of thousands of American lives were lost in Europe (and the Pacific) in multiple world wars largely defending Europeans from themselves. Complaining that we didn't do even more or sooner (and totalling forgetting how we rebuilt much of Europe and Japan post-WWII and protected Europe from further division during the Cold War) is the ultimate in chutzpah. It's the reason why many Americans are not particularly impressed with much of Europe.

The USA has now voted for Trump. With increasing Russian belligerence in Europe and fears across the continent, and Trump's apparent pro-Russian views and entirely correct belief that besides Greece and Britain, no member of NATO comes close to meeting their financial and resource commitments, it will be quite amusing to see how European governments will respond.

>>50991553

Penalty and bonus stacking are always a vague subject. Posting the issue on the OPP forums might get a response from DavidH or Rose.

>>50991714
Vietnamese Werewolves fighting to protect their territory from American soldiers.

>>50992069
Or a werewolf pack that all joined up at the same time.

>got my pills 'gainst Mosquito death
>buddy's beathin' his dyin' breath
>oh yeah, send me pictures of my boy

>>50991959
must be nice to have an homogenize culture, with few threats large amounts of resources and no historical conflicts.

America has been the luckiest fucks on the planet and they still treat everyone else like losers. Everyone else has been playing on hardcore mode while America has been playing on easy mode. AND they still treat their own populous as losers.

The only thing great about America is the myth of America

>>50991887
Mate, I'm not denying that there are other ways to get a fix of Vitae. I'm just saying that as soon as a vamp (the ADDICT) realizes that he can slurp from his thumb the entire day, he'll be having a hard time not to suck his thumb all day. That's what addiction makes you do. It makes you cave in to the path of least resistance, to satisfy your cravings.

>>50992162
>homogenize culture
The differences between east coast, west coast, the south, the rustbelt, the city, the country, and all the minorities says different.

A thing that bothers me a bit about the Cheiron group in Dark Eras is that it already apparently has access to Thaumatech. Grafting monster parts to people and expecting them to live without modern medicine stretches my disbelief a bit too much.
>>50991714
Hunter, without any supernatural splats as players. Promethean for alienated post-war veterans.

>>50991851
>And over there, next to the Prince, stands our Grand Dragon Mikhailov.
>>My god!
>Yeah, he-
>>Why is he chomping away at his fingers?
>H-he eh-
>>Must be real nervous to meett his liege.
>He has a problem.
>>What problem.
>We tried to intervene. Didn't work. Best not talk about it.
>>But-
>Come. Lets go meet Deirdre. You'll like Deirdre.

>>50992196
And the argument that everyone else is making is that doing what you're suggesting is like masturbation when you want to get your dick wet. Sure, it might help a little, but it's not going to give you your fucking fix.

>>50992290
Do they have access to Thaumatech? I don't remember it actually saying one way or the other, and "The Cheiron Group" doesn't exist, just their proto-selves.
Even then, it's more alchemy than science to begin with.

>>50992244
Doesn't stop the country from being isolationist and ignorant of the outside world.

>>50992349
I mean, it's never explicitly stated, but what would their endowment be otherwise?Considering that operations are pretty risky in modern times when not in an ultra-modern Cheiron clinic I don't think the poor bastards would survive anyway.

>>50992349
>And the argument that everyone else is making is that doing what you're suggesting is like masturbation when you want to get your dick wet. Sure, it might help a little, but it's not going to give you your fucking fix.
Except that the comparison doesn't work, mate. It's like this: you're trying to quit smoking, yeah? But you carry around this xxl pack of sigarets. Pretty hard not to fall of the wagon, get it? Replace nicotine with opiates or amphetamines or supernatural blood. It really makes no difference. In the nympho example, it would be to have another at nympho at your side constantly. You'd be all over each other probably. Don't want this to get all magical realm-y and shit. But that's the nature of the beast that is addiction.

Now, I'm still waiting on that quote you promised (nah, you didn't cause you can't find it), proving that a vampire can't get high on his own supply.

File: elricsson caption 2.jpg (173KB, 500x370px) Image search: [Google]

173KB, 500x370px

Daily reminder: FULL ASSRAPE STIFFNESS

>>50992349
>what is an addiction to self-mutilation?

sweetsummerchild.png

>>50992459
>>50990293
As an ST I'd give you a beat for fucking yourself up like that (ignoring obligations and opportunities to actually feed), but you'd still end up with the Deprived Condition because you're substituting a related behavior for the actual act of feeding. Sucking down your own Vitae isn't servicing the addiction, it's the equivalent of smoking housing insulation because you can't get a fix.

>>50992162
>must be nice to have an homogenize culture

Are you effing kidding me?

American culture is largely a mishmash of the vast and diverse cultures that have and continue to immigrate here. Unlike Europe, however, America actually assimilates its immigrants. We were increasingly "diverse" and "multicultural" while Europe was still killing one another.

Moreover, "American culture" itself is vastly different in various parts of the country. Many forget that the USA is vast, and our strong federal structure encourages unity while also maintaining and taking great pride in regional differences. You need only have watched a sliver of recent American election coverage to begin to understand the differences among the coasts, the south, industrial midwest, Pacific northwest, etc.

In fact, until recently when many European countries starting experiencing negative population growth and needed immigration to maintain their welfare states (a matter for another discussion), these countries were (and many still are) not only some of the most ethnically, religiously and culturally homogenous states in existence, their leadership were actually related by blood.

America indeed has ample natural resources. So do a great many countries in Europe, Asia, Africa, etc., yet our record of genocide is still pitiful compared to most everyone else. Despite the constant wailing about American imperialism and militarism, we are still historic amateurs. As to not having many historical conflicts, that's more a commentary on the failures of everyone else than American "luck."

Trying to claim America's cultural, economic, military and social leadership and success is primarily attributable to "luck" is outrageously ignorant and offensive. Similarly, the ancient and modern atrocities committed by countries across the globe were deliberate choices and most certainly did not occur because of "bad luck."

>>50993090


Don't drag in this shit in the next thread

>>50992675
>What is an addiction to self-mutilation?
Not the same thing as an addiction to vitae?
>>50992459
Except that the comparison is completely apt. You're not getting anything new. You're not getting your fix, you're at best getting something watered down. It's not going to cure your hankering. It won't quench your thirst. This isn't even a fucking mechanical argument, it's a narrative one.
>Now, I'm still waiting on that quote you promised (nah, you didn't cause you can't find it), proving that a vampire can't get high on his own supply.
Show me the quote where it says vampires don't piss fire. You can't find it. Guess that proves they can.
Who are you, Donald fucking Rumsfeld? Why don't you go to the OPP forums and ask, maybe Rose will come by and answer your question. Hill and Filamina are on the Discord server, too. Try them.
In the end none of this matters. You already said you don't have an actual game, and even if you did, judging from the people telling you "no, that's dumb and cheating", an ST wouldn't allow it.

>>50992349
>Doesn't stop the country from being isolationist and ignorant of the outside world.
I won't argue with that, although I would argue that most nations are ignorant of the outside world.

>>50993028
>yet our record of genocide is still pitiful compared to most everyone else.

The Trail of Tears, the Indian Wars and the brutal subjugation of Porta Rica says otherwise....

>>50993108
Most nations know more about the US than the US knows about them, if for no other reason than they can't afford otherwise.

>>50993104
It is Vitae. It quenches other people's cravings for Vitae. Why would it not sate yours? It is the same stuff. Is the point. It is not a watered down version of the real deal. It is the pure product, uncut and straight from the vein.

You still haven't brought anything to the table but: "nuhuh"

>>50991714
I could see Hunter working well, trying to deal with the horrific monsters on both sides of the war.
Also Geist.

I don't see Mage working that well, given that the Arrow has by that time forbidden its membership from getting engaged in Sleeper warfare.

>>50993283
Because the write up clearly makes the assumption that you'll need to get your vitae from elsewhere. Your argument might as well be that you can blood bond yourself. My argument is "this is not a logical conclusion to make, no matter how much you try to excuse it, and beyond that it clearly tries to sidestep some of the narrative problems associated with your character being addicted".

>>50993321
It literally says in the fluff descriptions that vampires might lick at their own wounds. Yes. It also says that some
>Some
addicts choose to hunt others. Both are possible. Clearly.

>>50993362
It doesn't say they cause their own wounds, and it doesn't say they actually sate their addiction by licking their own wounds.

More to the point: No ST is likely to allow that, so it doesn't fucking matter what your arguments are.

>>50993321
>not a logical conclusion to make
But it is. Considering the nature of addiction it is very plausible that vampire addicts might try to lick their own wounds to get a fix. Likely enough that they've deemed it necessary to mention along with the fact that some might go about getting their fix by actively hunting other vampires. One doesn't exclude the other. Stop thinking in this binary fashion.

>excusing it
>sidestepping narrative problems
you seem to think that this is about trying to get a mechanical benefit. while I clearly explained that the addict will be fucked once he gets the hang of ripping into his own flesh. I've constantly approached this from the logic of the addiction narrative. not once have I brought up mechanical benefits/penalties. you seem to argue for the sake of arguing. you're deaf to reason.

>>50993120
>>50993120
>The Trail of Tears, the Indian Wars and the brutal subjugation of Porta Rica says otherwise.

Do you know anything at all about European, Asian, African or South American history, even just in the last century?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll

America's history is hardly bloodless and often quite unkind (just like most other countries), but the willful blindness to the ample, extensive and horrific historical atrocities of others in pursuit of American demonization is ridiculous and ignorant.

Has America done "bad things" according to modern sensibilities? Of course. If atrocities were actually a competition with other countries, including many modern western states, the USA would not even be close to "winning."