Excuse me, Divine Valar, but if Sauron can't create souls

>>50972217

0/10

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>"Well that's easy to explain Olorun. The movies aren't canon."

this isn't even /tg/
this is a /lit/ question

>>50972242

It's not even a /lit/ question, it's retardedly assuming the movies were made the way Tolkien envisioned things.

>>50972217
>we see at least that the uruk-hai are being actively 'born' out of Saruman's mining and dark magic.

Can you point me to that passage in the book?

>>50972242
Tolkien is /tg/, newfag

>>50972217
>I'm aware that the first generation of orcs consists of corrupted elves,
Not sure how relevant this is to the discussion, but new elves don't get new souls.
They get part of their mothers soul, so all the elf souls have gotten really small and watered down over the years.

>>50972217
I hope your mother gets cancer.

>>50972352
Doesn't that imply that there are superelves left who never gave birth?

>>50972352

>They get part of their mothers soul, so all the elf souls have gotten really small and watered down over the years.

That's not actually true. It's an Elven superstition that was "officially debunked" when the Elves started encountering elves who had been reincarnated after death.

If you want to read it in turgid, boring detail, you should search History of Middle earth for "Laws and Customs among the Eldar".

What happens to dwarves when they die?

>>50972738
They go chill in the dwarven afterlife 'the halls of their ancestors' and occasionally get reincarnated

>>50972296
Shitty forced shit isn't /tg/ though.

>>50972217
Even in 2017 you're still a stupid fag. Give it up already.

>>50972524
or, you know, original male elves

>>50972217
Born from mining? Born in a mine does not born from mining make.

Obviously I accelerated the growth of urukhai children to better make an army.

Dwarves are born in mines would you imply that dwarves have no father or mother?

Come back after you have a few white hairs youngling.

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>>50973406
Oops forgot pic

>>50972217

Tolkien struggled with the question of the Orcs. As a catholic, he could reconcile his views of redemption with the idea of a truly evil race. He changed his mind over time about the nature and origin of Orcs and the nature of evil.

>>50973484
Quit trying to scrounge up lame conversation in your faggot thread, OP.

>>50973526

I'm not OP.

>>50972734
>If you want to read it in turgid, boring detail
this is a tolkien thread, and around here that's the best kind of detail

>>50972217
>DivineValar.forced
An Hero.

>>50973887
This a forced shit thread. Don't get confused.

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>>50973406 >>50973425
You know you can edit posts, right?

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>edits on my polish goose fancier ezine?

I don't have a 4Chan gold account, no edits for me.

>>50973350

>tfw original female elf

The 40,000 Year Old Virgin

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>>50972217

Orcs don't have souls.

>>50975058
>>50976234
>40,000 years old is clearly skeleton
>Elf virgin clearly a skeleton lie

>>50972217
Neither did Sauron start with the Orcs, nor did Saruman invent the Uruk-hai.

Melkor started with both.

>>50972217

that has to be the shittiest version of that edit i've ever seen. Aslo

>ITT op is a faggot who has clearly never read the books.

They have redeemable souls. In a letter Tolkien explicitly refused to describe them as irredeemable which means they have a cause for metaphysical hope which necessitates both the initially corrupted elves and their progeny having a metaphysical place in the mind of Eru Iluvatar.

>>50977777
Blessed Quints confirm.

Remember to sage!

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>>50978829
t.

>>50972284
>>we see at least that the uruk-hai are being actively 'born' out of Saruman's mining and dark magic.
Honestly, it's probably metaphorical 'born'. Hazing/induction ritual.

>>50982073

That was the movies solution for not explaining the breeding program used to make them.