In this thread we post things bad players think: >"In

>>50944407
>A good Charisma score means everyone wants you dick

>>50944407

>If I shout my intention to attack before the GM has finished his description, I'll get a bonus, maybe to initiative!

>>50944407

>my girlfriend isn't a gamer, but she'll have fun playing because I'm there with her

Being a successful Magic player takes skill.

>>50944407
>and the worst you can do is nothing

I stand by this though, a good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.

>>50944407
>We should over analyse every choice

>>50944590
But a shit plan RIGHT NOW is still worth less than a decent plan in twenty minutes.

>>50944614
Depends on the Game Master.

>ohhh im gonna make my character a drow rogue, everyone will think thats so cool!

>>50944632
>>ohhh im gonna make my character a drow, everyone will think thats so cool!

>>50944627
Nah, not really.

The trick is to come up with a good short-term plan in the meantime with the goal of getting time to think. My personal favorite is "book it and come back."

>>50944407
>The GM will enjoy it if I veer off story so he can improv. GMs love improv.

>>50944407
>Giving my character an accent will make role playing more immersive for everyone.

>>50944407
>genre conventions are ironclad, so I already know this guy's going to betray us.
>don't worry, the DM won't actually kill us, we're the protagonists.
>everything mentioned is important.
>anything the DM didn't mention is irrelevant.
>so when do I get my own arc? You did make one for me, right
>said in session two

>character death is something to be avoided at all costs
>my idea is a great idea, even if half the table in and out of character have pointed out gross flaws and other methods that are as likely to work and less likely to fail
>Well, it's not my turn, let me pull out my phone
>I can do my bills and pay attention at the same time, why is the gm mad?
All of these things have happened to me.

>>50944407
>it's fine to keep making hail-Mary life-risking decisions over and over, because my DM will let me roll a new character.

>>50944614
Depends on the situation
>Surrounded by 50 ogres who are charging us
>Now lets stop and think about our plan for a few minutes

>>50944725
Do you prefer
>>50944726
?

Because I find that more annoying. At least the guy trying to stay alive is doing what a real character would probably do.

>>50944729
See, that's what the intermediary plan is for.
Step one: do something about the "surrounded" part.
Step two: distance.
Step three: come up with step four.
Step four: ???

>>50944758
>At least the guy trying to stay alive is doing what a real character would probably do.
This real character also ignored the teammates who told him to his face that his plan was terrible, would burn all kinds of bridges, had massive failure chance, AND could be safely replicated with none of the above pitfalls via another player's skill set.
What the player was going for was flash, not substance.
I would expect >>50944726 to be reined in by the party, or to not be doing this with every character. They would get a talking to fairly quickly.

>>50944636
>>>ohhh im gonna make my character, everyone will think thats so cool!

>>50944590
>>50944614
Depends on the context. You need to gauge the risk of waiting vs the expected gain of producing a better plan. Quickly figuring out how much better you can probably do something given the time to properly research all the facts, without having researched all the facts when you make the figuring, is a valuable skill that will take you far in life.

>>50944614
>>50944729
adding to the list
>people who think game time and real time should be 1:1

>>50944791
>I would expect >>50944726 to be reined in by the party, or to not be doing this with every character. They would get a talking to fairly quickly.


Not him, but I've seen entire parties of this. It's sometimes even metagamingly planned around.

>Say, your character has a deficit of expected equipment. If you get him killed, the new one will have more standard WBL

>Well, we need to scout out the area. Your character is the weakest and thus most expendable, if he dies, it's not a huge loss.

It's maddening when it happens. Short of kicking the players, or leaving the group, I've never found a solution.

>>50944874
Shouldn't be 1:1 but letting players plan for long periods of time in immediate situations takes the threat out of a game.
>We are being ambushed
>Okay lets sit down and discuss our plan for 30 minutes

>Hey guys what should I do during my turn?
>No, lets here what X has to say
>If I do this will Y be able to stay alive?

I don't mind preparation or combat chatter but don't stand around for five minutes having an actual conversation in battle. What I generally do to force pressure on the players is I use a simple hourglass timed for a minute. When your turn starts I flip it, if it runs out before you start rolling your turn is skipped. I also limit players to combat speak, someone can say a couple lines of dialogue during their turn and other players can use their reactions to respond. If you used your reaction for something else tough luck.

If you don't like pressure that is fine, I won't judge you but I find being able to plan out everything when you are supposedly in danger to be retarded.

>>50944407
>Chaotic neutral or chaotic evil means my character is insane

>>50944407
>Tortures work
>If not, simply apply more of them

>>50944917
The first would be talking to the group about metagaming and why it's generally frowned upon.
Then talking to the individual players that trespass.
Then warning them.
Then booting them.
>the gm admonished me for flagrantly breaking a rule of the game he set down, he's an asshole!
>>50944956
You are pushing to absurdity, anon.
An ambush situation can only have a handful of things identified and planned out, really.
>where are we, time of day, surroundings, marching order, all of which the players should already know
>what is attacking us, what does it look like, what direction
>appropriate information gathering rolls made if need be
>players declare their actions

>>50944608
Jesus fucking Christ. My current group is like this. I often just go for a smoke and brew a tea while they are busy overthinking the most basic choice.

>>50944687
>Even if I can't do the accent, I will still try, because having good intentions is enough to succeed.

>>50944687
Objectively false, anon, an accent is perfectly fine so long as it can be done with something approaching regularity.

>>50944983
Similar and much more annoying one
>Hypnosis allows me to ask everything and anything and GM will totally have to reveal me all the informations

>>50945031
Objectively true. Accent is literally the most pointless shit you can do to a character.
Bonus points if this is your "home" accent, so rather than being an actual effort, you rather stop bothering with your regular, unaccented speech and just talk as if you were having a conversation with your grandma that only speaks in local dialect.
I know waaaay too many people doing this shit to consider accent a sign of good roleplaying or effort.

>>50944993
>An ambush situation can only have a handful of things identified and planned out, really.
Yeah my players once spent an hour digging a trench as part of an ambush they were setting going so far to see the logistics of how much they could dig in the time they had to prepare and everything. You could easily spend 30 minutes planning your response to an ambush especially if you are as autistic as my players. Either way I like to enforce pressure because when I play I find it more entertaining knowing the clock is ticking and I can't just sit around discussing a plan all the time.

>>50945068

Nigga you told me you wanted to play a wild west game, quit telling me to build a wall just because I drop into a more spanish sounding accent and use a lot of spanish words.

>>50945068
>Accent is literally the most pointless shit you can do to a character.
>this character is clearly from another area of the setting
>denotes that they learned the language they are speaking later in life due to *insert situation*
You may as well say a Russian immigrant to England shouldn't have an accent, it informs a lot about a character and serves to differentiate them from the people around them. This serves even better if they are of a minority or ostracized group, immediately marking them out by npcs.
I'm sorry you've just had shitty players, anon.
>>50945076
They are trying way too hard to "outthink the GM".

>>50944608
>The goblin has a renowned warrior hostage and threatens to kill him if you do not help him overtake his boss.

Jesus. Fucking. Christ. I should've just have the goblin slit the hostage's throat instead of waiting legit fifteen minutes for them to make up their mind.

>>50945119
>I come from a country with no local dialects
This is literally the only reason why you can consider accents a valid roleplaying tool.

And before you go all tipy-typy, go fucking check what a dialect is and how it simply differs from local accent.

>>50945119
Different guy, but I generally hate my players trying to do accent. So many of them fail at it, and hearing them try--in extreme cases--is uncomfortable for everyone.

>>50944956
>If you don't like pressure that is fine, I won't judge you but I find being able to plan out everything when you are supposedly in danger to be retarded.

This is true. However you've also got to realise that the players are fat neckbeards in a basement and their characters are battle-hardened veterans practiced at making split-second decisions in response to their surroundings based on years of experience. They also have a better understanding of their surroundings since they're actually, y'know, there.

>>50944407
>If I make my character racist, I'll have a good excuse to make actual racist remarks disguised as roleplay. Everyone will love this.

>>50944407
>Alignment dictates all my actions no matter what happens.

>>50945068
Eh, I like using accents as a DM. It helps the players keep track of who is talking without me having to explain every time the speaker changes.

>>50944407
>Roleplaying is for acting out my fetishes.

>>50945402
If you're good at it, it makes for a great game. If not it's a holocaust.

>>50944407
>I'll make my fursona my character.
Inevitably leads to
>Why did you kill my character?! REEE

>>50945402
>Accent
>Not doing voices instead
Fucking disgusting

>>50945286
There is worse thing than this
>I will make my character be racist toward obscure race X that we will probably never meet, because this is a valid character choice and provides free points during character making without actually requiring from me my character or being racist in the first place.

>>50945459
Not a furfag, but why killing? It's literally pointless, spiteful and childish, a typical That GM behaviour consisting of
>I'm going to kill any character you make until it's a character I personally like

>>50944993

>Then booting them.

Believe me, I've tried the progression. I've never gotten talking to work.

>>50946014
Yeah but you do it so they can't truthfully say you didn't.

>>50945958
No no. This has happened to me twice as a GM and they both made dumb choices and got themselves killed and blamed me, both losing their respective shit.

>>50945914
>Accent
>Voices
>Different things

Accent is part of voice.

>>50944407
>If I make my character have enough flaws, the GM will let me have superpowers.

>>50946467
Please tell me you are just baiting and not so fucking stupid to not understand the difference between making voices and speaking with accent.

>>50946634
Accent is an aspect of voice. You cannot speak without an accent.

>>50946685
Ok, so you are simply stupid. This sadly sometimes just happens

>>50946467
>>50946685
Jesus Christ...

Making voices meaning changing your voice to make it sound different, higher, lower, more effeminete, more guttual etc.
Speaking with accent means you are still using your normal voice, but change pronunciation of words.

It takes to be brain-damaged to not understand the difference.

>>50946782
Every voice has an accent. Every. Single. One. Even if you're not actively changing your pronunciation, you're still speaking with an accent, because YOU have an accent. What accent a voice has changes the listener's impression of a character. Hence, accent is part of voice, and voice is a part of character.

If you took a second to read and think instead of defaulting to the assumption that everyone except you is a dumbass, then you might have actually learned something.

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>>50946874

>>50946874
>If you took a second to read and think instead of defaulting to the assumption that everyone except you is a dumbass, then you might have actually learned something.
The irony of this statement is killing me with laugher.

Have you at least fucking notice it was all about making voices? I mean... Jesus... you just can't be this fucking stupid, can you?

>>50946874
>Confusing making voices with voice as a sound emmited for communication
>Berating anons for not not reading the posts
There is such saying - when you are chin-deep in shit, maybe it's time to stop digging deeper.

>Making my character a drunk and then using that to justify poor decisions will make for a great game

>>50947009
>Drinking while playing an alcoholic is a great way for immersing entire team, especially when I have zero alcohol tolerance

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>>50946939
>>50946967
>>50946990

By golly! People on the Internet can't understand that accent is a characteristic of voice that affects a listener's perception of the owner of said voice, similar to pitch or cadence! I do hope they don't call me stupid for pointing this out again, that would sure hurt my fee-fees!

>>50944407
>It's best to take the least risky, most sure-fire decisions, regardless of context, situation or stakes
Followed by
>Since the turns aren't real time, I have all time in the world to ponder about my combat moves.

>>50947097
>I've read the post wrong
>Rather than admit it or shut up and use the anonimity to carefully escape repercussions, I will keep pushing
>To the point I will pretend the original subject of discussion was the stuff I've read wrong
Newfag, why are you so newfag? I mean this entire site is anonymos for a reason

>>50947127
Voice the accent is do make. I speaking?
>>50947097
Oh dear. I imagine you have a big ol belly, a big ol' beard, a high-pitched voice and a collection of non-authentic Victorian hats.

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>>50947127
The original point of contention was that speaking with an accent and doing a voice are two separate things. I contend that they are the same thing, my reasoning being that every voice has an accent and accent is an important characteristic of one's voice. The argument made against my case is that I am a stupid, brain-damaged, full retard newfag. Being that as it may, I believe my point still stands.

>>50947238
2 for 4, my friend.

>>50947273
Damnit. Well you can't be right all the time.

>>50947273
Deep voice and...period-accurate swords?

>>50947245
Yeah, I see your point.

Back to thread:
>Every party needs a leader, and I will be that leader.

>>50947473
>>Every party needs a leader, and I will be that leader.
This suprisingly depends greatly from group to group. And since group dynamics are a thing, rarely a "self-proclaimed leader" ends up as "actual leader" when the group stabilises. If he/she does, that means they actually DID possess the proper qualities to be the leader from the start.
Small group interactions are fun to study, especially when entire party is made from people aware of this shit, like psychology or sociology students.

>Player agency means derailing the game and doing whatever I want with no consequence.

>>50947718
>If a GM does burden me with consequences, that means railroading and That GM

>>50947851
this nigga gets it

>If everyone just brings some snacks, surely I don't need to contribute, because there is so much of this stuff it would be pointless anyway, let's just enjoy it together

>>50950284
>It's a great idea to use crust-and-fat covered fingers to flip pages in the rule book

>A character I don't like is hogging my spotlight. My best way to fix this is to kill him in front of everyone else in the party.

>Welp, we've arrived in a new town. Let's immediately try to burn it down, just like the last three towns!

>>50945958
The complaining happens even if you don't try to get your players killed. I once had a player die in just a mundane combat because of bad rolls, and he accused me of hating his "awesome" character, and refused to play with me.

>>50947099
I hate that as both a player and GM. If nobody else is, I try and play as the risk taker or the guy with wacky plans beyond "cast fire"

>>50944729
>Surrounded by 50 charging ogres
>Do nothing
>Ogres become confused by our inaction
>Ogres realize that we are not the ragtag group of adventurers that stole their sacred relic
>Ogre chief gifts us a sack of rubies as apology for almost murdering us horribly

So ends another exciting adventure for the Fellowship of Indecisiveness!

>>50945068
I dunno, anon. A difference in speech helps stay in character and distinguish IC and OOC.

>>50951750
>A difference in speech helps stay in character and distinguish IC and OOC.
What the last group did was that once the game starts, OOC is designate by raising a hand while you speak. Everything else is IC. Yes, even the "gonna take a leak, be back in five".

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If things don't go my way, I'll just sulk and cry and threaten to tear up our friendship until the GM does what I want.

>>50951896
That's not being a players. That's being GM's GF.
Yes, even if you're male.

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>Maybe if my GF and I's characters fall in love, the DM will think we're great at role playing

>>50951955
Maybe I need those 5 reasons because my image is fucked

>>50945349
>alignment is black and white
I'll never understand the appeal of lines drawn that just clearly say "this guy is a good guy, and that guy is a bad guy, therefor they will fight 100% of the time because otherwise their gods will kill them".

It's like watching logic fall apart the same way you'd watch a house of cards tumble.

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>>50951955
>if I have the cute player's character raped, then she'll like me!

>>50945349
This is so awful. Alignment is a sort of general "what they want to do." But people have to do things that collide with that sometimes.

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>Anime is a good source for character inspiration right?

>>50951750
Just like >>50951785 said - if you want to speak OOC, you rise a clenched fist at your ear level, elbow at right angle. Otherwise it's all in character.

>>50951608
I eventually bought myself a small hourglass, measuring 20 seconds. Can't make your mind in your time - your PC freeze in panic.
And whenever I can, I try to use the old initiative system from ADD, but that's not working in all games and situations, so still the hourglass helps.

>>50951917
That's EXACTLY what being a lousy player is.

>Surely if I read the source book, my character should know all this stuff too, after all he lives in this world

>>50944407
>I should make a thread about things bad players think

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>I don't need to know how my class works I'll just ask the DM
>It's ok to look up my spells and abilities mid combat

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>Oh hey this NPC has slighted me in some fashion, better fuckin' try and start a fight with him (regardless of the context, social, political or otherwise)

Party member nearly blew our cover last session while we were trying to infiltrate a big vault place because the dude who greeted us tried to get us to bribe him

>>50952788
>>It's ok to look up my spells and abilities mid combat
And literally what's wrong with that?

Unless you mean book flipping and not just checking the sheet.

>>50944407
>If I won't say a single word through entire game, I will be still rewarded for showing up and rolling the dice

>>50952927
Yes book flipping, e.g. not knowing the effect, saving throw, or range of any of your key spells.

>>50953683
Ok, then fuck the bastard if that's the case.

>>50944407
>"Man, the DM is so stupid, I've figured out the intrigue plot already!"
Red herrings exist for a reason.

>>50953710
More important than that, a mystery SHOULD be solvable. I call plots stupid for being too convoluted and so tangled and full of plot lines that it's just impossible to follow. You'd be surprised how many people fail to solve a mystery that you think is simple, and the more along that line of simple and complex you ride, the more players have an "Aha!" moment at the climax, which is what you're going for. If it's too simple you'll have them figure it out early which isn't the worst thing. If it's too convoluted then they'll feel they didn't do anything by the time you reveal it all to them.

>Taking the leadership feat and repeatedly asserting myself as the party leader will make everyone respect me and follow my plans no matter how absurdly retarded they may be

how to make the party kill your lawful stupid drow sorcerer in 5 minutes

>I'm lawful evil, never mind that every action I have taken up to this point breaks laws and is intended to represent my literally insane shitpost of a character, that doesnt make me chaotic. I'm lawful.

>we have a prisoner who it utterly and irredeemably deplorable in every aspect.
>better hug him because /tg/ always says to take the wacky option even if its fucking stupid and pointless!

>player unironically voice acts their character constantly
>its not in a subtle manner to differentiate between IC and OOC discussion
>its a fucking pantomime cartoon of a character
worse yet
>its a fucking anime foxboy
>"mo.. ii... Anon-kun could you help me fight this s-skeleton. Not like i like you or anything! baka!"
>in a poor attempt at a faint young boy voice
I have never wanted to invoke rule 0.5: "the gm can freely use the core rulebook to beat the shit out of horrendous players" more than I did that day

>>50945024
You sound like a bit of a wet blanket

>>50944477
Even worse are players who think that charisma rolls are literally mind control.

>>50952629
Can you elaborate on the AD&D initiative feature? I've used a 'delay your turn until you decide' rule before, but am always open to new/old ideas

>>50955687
>>50955687
>anime foxboy
Fuck this I fucking lost, I fucking hate these people because their entire purpose for playing D&D is a self-insert erotic roleplay with no creativity involved other than translating their sexual fantasies into a D&D setting.

Yes, most D&D characters are a self-insert but usually they pander to something other than somebody wanting to get their fucking balls off.

>>50953855
I've got a rule of thumb - don't try to run mystery on people who don't read and/or watch criminals on their own. And I'm talking absolute classic, not some convoluted CSI bullshit.
Because this is this kind of genre where you either are investigator by trade OR are familiar with cliches, tropes and plot devices. Otherwise you are going to fuck yourself with own incompetence.

Got certain scenario, that is perfectly fine if you are familiar with the ropes of the procedural investigation genre, but utterly falls apart if you are not, tested it on numerous people, always giving consistent results.
And by all account it IS convoluted, as it involves a scorned woman killing men who left her for other lovers, in a way to put entire blame on one of her ex-lovers.

>>50955793
And you sound like someone with still milk under the nose when it comes to GMing. Good intentions are simply not enough. Trying to do an accent while being unable to do so or keep it is one of the most annoying things that can happen. Not only to GM, but because it's tiresome for the party. It's also extra annoying when players assume doing an accent makes their characters special or more interesting just because they speak a bit different, so never mind it's utterly flat, one-note character in tune "a seasoned warrior who adventures, because why not" blandness. I've seen this shit so many times it just annoys me now.

>>50956010
Instead of rigid number that turns combat into sequence of rolls, different actions and different gear come with different "speed" rating (can't recall the English name, was playing translations). Depending on the rating, you take your actions faster/slower, thus there is a tactical element added to the combat, because you need to decide if you want to try to kill someone, or interrupt their spell or force them to burn their move by exposing yourself, but in the same time allowing your party to kill the creature that was trying to "rush" you.

Since it wasn't a fxed value and was fluid, you could create myriads of situation and most importantly - it kept everyone engaged with the fight. Because rather than waiting for your turn, you had to decide when you take your turn AND adjust to the change in the "sequence". After everyone made their rolls, GM was obligated to tell a story out of those decisions and numbers, rather than quipping half-senteces in style of "you hit him"
The system wasn't the most efficient and it made a lot of assumptions and picked arbirtary values, but it was very fun to play and most importantly, requiring paying attention to the fight rather than passively sitting and waiting for your move. This also made it impossible to stall your moves out of panic overthinking, because you just HAD to react in some way with the gear at hand, or entire party would be unable to make their moves and not just wait for you, so it was adding group pressure to those who usually stall in combat.

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>>50951987

Here have this one. It has more pixels, and thus more room for jpeg artifacts.

>>50944833
>>>>ohhh im gonna make my character, thats so cool!

>I can see that the GM clearly has put a lot of work into where this session is going... HA! I'm onto his tricks! I'll do the exact opposite of what he wants is to do, no matter what my character would do!
>If I avoid any plot, that means I don't get raleroaded and so I win, right?
>I am so badass like Old Man Anderson!

>>50944407
>I've read a lot of articles about this game on that internet forum.
>That means I'm an expert on the matter and should constantly point different things to GM and other players, even if they all have years of experience and I've just started last Wednesday

>>50956119
>Instead of rigid number that turns combat into sequence of rolls, different actions and different gear come with different "speed" rating

Ie different rigid numbers.

>GM was obligated to tell a story out of those decisions and numbers, rather than quipping half-senteces in style of "you hit him"

Which has nothing to do with the rules, it just tells the GM to do this. Which he can ignore, or he can do that while playing DnD.

>or entire party would be unable to make their moves and not just wait for you

While in a "one guy at a time system" everyone else will have to wait for you to do your turn.

>>50956300
>>>>>ohhh im my character, thats so cool!

>>50956668
>I never played it, but I will talk bullshit anyway
Not him (and he explained half of the elements wrong), but let's make a simple comparison
>Everyone rolls for/pick from sheet their initiative
>Maybe for a round, maybe for entire combat
>The sequence is fixed, you can only act in this and only this order
VS
>You make decision what you want to do based on situation
>Your turn in the sequence depends on action you decide to perform
>The sequence is fluid and reactive

And I think his point about description was "full turn" rather than "each action". It's kind of hard to describe how you attack someone cutting off their head and then perform a roll to do a dodge against that attack and previous action was reverse. In short, the description can easily get bogged down in inconsequence. If you do it by the end of entire round, you are describing what happend according to the actions taken together.

And since I didn't say that already - would you mind fucking off?

>>50956730
>>>>>>ohhh im so cool!

>>50956786
>>>>>>>ohhh i am

>>50956949
>>>>>>>>Ojai

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>>50956611
>>If I avoid any plot, that means I don't get raleroaded and so I win, right?

>>50945244
>reproducing dialects is necessarily easier than accents
no

>If the rule is vague, I should exploit it. The GM surely will like be for being creative

>>50957211
>My reading comprehension is in negative values

> I attack. If we're not killing, we're not advancing.

>>50944407
In most ameritrashes, like Twilight Imperium/GoT etc.

>If I help win player X, I'll have second place!

No, you will not, you fucking faggot

>>50957262
>If I will help them, I wont be first
ftfy

>>50944407
>If I lose the game, it's not because I'm shit. It's because everyone else are cheating and rules lawyering bastards.

>>50944494
>>>50944407 (OP)
>>If I shout my intention to attack before the GM has finished his description, I'll get a bonus, maybe to initiative!

I actually do this. If you interrupt me, you automatically win initiative.

Of course, then you'll never know what i was about to say. Maybe it was critical information that would have changed everything...

>>50944407
>ITT whiny assholes

>>50957138
>>>>>>Ojai

>>50950870
>spilling Dr. Pepper all over the mat doesn't make you a cunt

>>50955687
Jesus, I can't fucking breathe.

>>50946874
>I'm going to be pedantic, that will show them!

>>50947639
The only time I've seen this not to be the case is if the players/pcs have formed cliques among themselves, which imo are the most dangerous thing a group can have, as it allows personalities to hold sway that should not.

>>50953644
Are people actually doing this? What's the point of going to a social event if you're not going to be social? As a social retard myself I find such a behavior totally not understandable. I mean, sure people might be socially incompetent and awkvard but atleast throw a few words or comments out there from to time. FFS just talk about shit that happens in the game IC. Nigga just describe what you are doing.

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>Self-insert power fantasies are the only reason for roleplaying, so how dare that GM include consequences for my actions!

>First-person Improv Acting Voice is proper roleplaying. Considering the current situation from the perspective of your character is not proper roleplaying, unless that perspective is delivered via first-person Improv Acting Voice. Preferably as loudly as possible.

>If every encounter doesn't kill at least one member of our party, then whether as player or GM I have personally failed the group.
>If my character ever dies in any encounter, the group and GM have personally failed me.

No blank lines between the last two, because I've seen them in the same person.

>>50944956
If you're ambushing the players then you should just allow the enemy to get a quick round of damage off before initiative is rolled.

If you're giving players enough time to plan, even if it's only a minute, then obviously it wasn't a fucking ambush.

If initiative is being rolled and the player's turn is reached, they technically have as much time as possible to decide a move since there isn't a rule that states how long a player's turn can be before it's passed over to whoever's next in line.

This is the concession that's made in a game where everything a player does is turned based. An hour out of game does not equal an hour in-game and the sooner you realize this, the better.

>>50955793
As someone who had to deal with a character whose voice was a shitty European accent for several months at a time, it's much easier if you just use your normal voice than one that's annoying as hell to listen to.

>I can surely play the party face, I have the highest charisma score of anyone in the party
alternatively
>What do you mean I have to explain myself, I rolled [arbitrarily high number] so he listens to me.
or worse
>I'm going to play the role with the most roleplay focus even though I have the charisma of a dead marmot IRL.

Shit like this is generally why I hate charisma checks in general nowadays, just a bunch of fat losers playing kitsune sorcerers and trying to treat it like low-key mind control.

>>50959754
I know "muh immersion" is generally looked down upon, but if players take aeons making a decision just because it's technically within their right, I feel the DM is well justified in saying "You took too fucking long, your initiative is forfeited". Nothing breaks immersion than overly long planning and pondering.

>>50959892
By that token, nothing sours the game faster than coming up with a good plan and having it thrown out because the GM had ADHD.

In truth, it's more immersion breaking having the table shout out arbitrary numbers and interrupt the GM because they're afraid of being ambushed and not being able to perform their action in time.
>"Okay, you find a-
>"I ROLL TO ATTACK, I GOT [X], does it beat its AC?"
>"Oh shit, I cast fireball!"
>"I sneak into position"
>"I activate thunderous smite!"
>"-cave partially obscured by the trees...."
>"Oh, I take back what I said then"
>"I roll perception, I got X, what do I see?"
Trying to turn a game of D&D into speed chess is an exercise in futility. Either the loudest and most obnoxious person wins or everyone's more worried about losing their turn than actually getting immersed in the story.

For the record, this applies for any game, not just D&D

>>50944407
>>50944960
>>50945349
>It's what my character would do!

>>50960013
>>"Oh, I take back what I said then"
No take-backsies, mark those spells and limited-use abilities as spent.

>>"I roll perception, I got X, what do I see?"
You see BSF flailing his sword against a rock wall, while Sneaky McRogue vanishes into the underbrush seeking a way to flank the cave. And then everything catches fire.

>>50960677
>No take-backsies, mark those spells and limited-use abilities as spent.
Cue 30 minutes of whining as everyone at the table calls you out on your bullshit and cites times when you made them lose their turn because of a slight delay in describing their actions.
>You see BSF flailing his sword against a rock wall, while Sneaky McRogue vanishes into the underbrush seeking a way to flank the cave. And then everything catches fire.
Cue another 30 minutes of whining as everyone explains that if their characters wouldn't have spent their actions if there wasn't any actual danger present and now the game's falling apart because everyone is pissed off that you made them spend resources they wouldn't have spent if you weren't so focused on making them do shit right this minute.

>I can punch a fire elemental with my bare hands
>Chaotic Neutral is the best alignment because it allows to do both good and evil things
>I'm not being edgy I'm just being a good role player
>Murder has no consequences if I think the victim was an ass hole
>Imma be funny by making my character say a bunch of memez

>>50958576
>>50958576There is at least one player like this for each new player group, so go fucking figure. It's a standard situation.

>>50944917
God-induced karma, if a player knowingly dies a stupid death for meta-game purposes, their next character created gets a penalty. This penalty stacks until the player roleplays in a sufficient manner for X sessions in a row, or a sacrifice to the gods are made (they pay for a big miniature or pizza or something)

>Smoking pipe during game session is good idea and adds immersion.
>Even if it's non smoker group and I myself can't smoke

Also, Happy New Year!

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>>50961827
>>Even if it's non smoker group and I myself can't smoke
>and I myself can't smoke

>>50960866
And this is the point where I get a new group.

>>50961993
What? You never played with a faggot who tried to immerse/be badass by smoking, while he obviously was unable to do so and was choking most of the time?

>i'm not really interested in this game
>lalalalala
>are we fighting warewolves or vampires
>i'm pretty sure it's vampires
>i better do something to make it seem i'm paying attention.

I'll buy a bag of seeds mr GM

>haha they'll be racking their brains workin out why but i'll have a cunning plan for the later

>llalalala

ok combat against a man who nows turns into wolfman haha anon it's your turn in the combat

Anon: I'll take out my seeds a throw them at the vampires.

>why is everyone staring at me?

Legit me in one game

>"my character is an asshole, so acting like an asshole is just good roleplaying"

>>50959842
oh man shy people making leader/charisma characters are the best

>I want to persuade this person
>Alright what do you say
>10 minutes no progress has been made at all

>>50963043
It'll only repeat until you drop your bullshit and just let people play at their own pace.

If you're playing with people that need more than 2 minutes to figure out what they want to do, that's just as much your fault as theirs for allowing retards to play in your games or for not playing a simpler game that's more their speed.

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>>50944407
>it's fine if I blurt out random shit OOC but when someone else does it it's ruining my immersion!

>"I have the highest HP/AC of the party, I'm practically invincible."
>"I get a +2 bonus from charging, so I should do that every single time we fight something, even though it might not be the best idea."

>>50951955
>if my character refers to hers as "my dear" or "my love" in every sentence, and makes sure to ask for her opinion and approval on every last decision, people will be impressed by our commitment to roleplaying

>>50947718
>>50947851

The biggest fucking problem I have with this board is these.

>"What do you mean I can't do that I'm a wizard can't I just magic it or something?"

>I'm Chaotic Neutral and there's personal gain if I kill a PC. If I do it, they'll all be okay with it because I'm roleplaying so well!

>Everyone else must want to hear about it because I am into it.

>By chance or due to well-thought decisions, my character became pretty much invincible in combat and everyone is aware of that
>That's why I should panic during combat I will die at hands of random thugs, while the sole perspective of facing something stronger makes me uneasy

>>50944407
>things bad players think
>the worst you can do is nothing

Spend an hour listening to your players debate three equally idiotic plans until they have second guessed themselves and undermined one another's ideas to the point that they become completely paranoid and neurotic and abandon the mission entirely.

Then come back and tell me if you really still believe this.

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>>50944524

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>>50955687
>>"mo.. ii... Anon-kun could you help me fight this s-skeleton. Not like i like you or anything! baka!"

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>>50963923
>shy people making leader/charisma characters are the best
Yeah nothing like having the party face played by a guy who will literally go three hours at a stretch without speaking, then when directly prodded say three words and go silent again.

>>50967582
God, I had a guy two years ago like this. He was playing a merchant. After a while we all realised he has no fucking clue how to do even most basic haggle or bargains, fully expecting to solve shit via rolls in a rule-light game.

>>50963923
no no no. in this sort of situation you ask "what are your intentions?"

>Hey, I also know the rules of this game! Let me help the person teaching the game by stating all the rules I think of and interrupting constantly!

Nothing has ever pissed me off more. I have teaching boardgames down to a science. I know exactly what to reach and when. I don't need you breaking that order and completely ruining that flow!

>>50968108
This. You're a bad DM. A person playing an 18 intelligence character doesn't have to be a Harvard graduate the same way an 18 charisma character doesn't need a poet as a player. Your focus should be on his character's plan and objective and his use of the stat, not what literally comes out of the player's mouth.

>>50968140
I get to have fun too. It isn't fun for me to watch a blithering idiot completely fail to present any sort of character to me, or any sort of material I can work with to get some actual role play in instead of number crunching.

>>50968140
There is such rule in literature - never, ever write a character smarter than yourself. It just not gonna work. Unlike physical attributes, psychical ones are pretty much pre-requested to role-play.
How the FUCK you imagine a complete shut-in playing as party's face? Or a moron dumb as a brick solving everything with rolling dice, because he's too thick to figure out even the most basic clues, which rest of the party figured out ages ago, but are restricted by player-character barrier.

>>50968162
I'm not saying accept "I roll to charm him", but if he gives you an idea of how he wants to steer the conversation or manipulate people, you should be pretty lenient and maybe throw him a bone if he is unable to say something of 18 charisma worthy right on the spot.
>>50968172
Then no one should play wizards ever.

>>50968208
He wants to persuade the guard to leave his post:
"I want you to leave." No, not acceptable.
"Hey, look, a dog." Acceptable.

I got at least some semblance of content out of that. I don't expect a poem. I expect some attempt at role playing, even if it's the shittiest thing imaginable.

As for the Wizard thing, you're just being a faggot. He meant playing someone who had brilliant deduction skills and made them a major part of his character, not someone who doesn't have to explain shit.

>>50944724
>don't worry, the DM won't actually kill us, we're the protagonists.
this one
oh my god
every fucking time, the party thinks they are immortal because things have worked out well for them
WELL GUESS WHAT YOU FUCKERS
YOU'RE GONNA DIE THIS WEEKEND

>>50968172
By asking what their intentions are and working towards that end?
Generally if we shift the topic from cha to int, I'll usually throw them a bone with what won't work, or at the least propose potential conflict their plan might bring them into, literal or otherwise. Because as the gm I know full well what the results of their plan is going to be anyway.
To add to what >>50968208
is saying, is nobody allowed to play hackers now either? Are the psychological modifiers in any horror or horror themed game completely worthless too?
>>50968245
More like
"I want to bribe the guard hoping that will convince him to leave"
Or even
"I want to lie to the guard to convince him I'm supposed to be back there"

Both convey not what the character is saying, but what the player would like to get out of the character's words.

>>50968277
Why am I game mastering for them if I don't even get them to even pretend to be in character? More importantly, why are they playing a tabletop game if they make zero effort to role play?

>>50968208
>Then no one should play wizards ever
The FUCK this has to do with character being smarter than player? Jesus, you must be really slow anon

>>50968321
>what do wizards have to do with high intelligence
Use your brain.

>>50968245
Then tell him that rather then tell him to literally act with no direction. Guide him, teach him. Don't be a dick as tell him to act on the spot and then shame him as NOT GOOD ENOUGH, HOW IS YOUR CHARACTER 18 CHA WHEN YOU CAN'T EVEN 18 CHA


Investigations are actually a great example of how faggot DMs fuck things up. You are not likely CSI when you play an investigator. Especially when you're not even physically seeing the scene. The entire investigation doesn't have to be an "investigation roll" but giving an idea what kinda stuff they're looking for should be enough as a player. You shouldn't just sit there waiting for them to say "I check the trashcan" BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE KILLER WOULD DISPOSE OF EVIDENCE THERE AND IF YOU DIDN'T THINK OF THAT WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU THE INVESTIGATOR, GO GET SOMEONE WITH REAL CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION EXPERIENCE TO PLAY THIS CHARACTER!

>>50968301
Because they're your friends? Because he's still playing a role, just in an indirect manner?

Do you narrate every action and word spoken by your bad guys while they set up their plans, or does most of that just happen? Do you ever use baddies who are smarter, wiser, or more charismatic then yourself, or npcs for that matter?

Or are you some worldly sage with the wherewithal to rule kingdoms, or even a crime family?

>>50968277
So let me get this straight - I'm suppose to just feed everything to players, because they are unable to do shit themselves? Anon, that's literally the worst thing to do. Not only it teaches them nothing, but make them used to GM baby-sitting them all the fucking time.

Seriously, why the fuck you are making some retarded "trade = psychical attributes"? I know enough guys in IT to know most of them are dim-witted faggots, but just happen to have professional training in their field.
By your logic, to be in IT, you must be a math witz.

Kill yourself.

>>50968331
>I read Int as IQ
This even fits the point of this thread - a mistake that rookies are making

>>50968357
Nobody mentioned IQ, because it has almost nothing to do with intelligence.

>>50968357
You're the only asshole here mentioning iq.

>>50968357
Have you ever looked at the definition of Int, you potato?

>>50968366
>>50968368
>>50968380
Nice samefaggotry

Still salty about wizard =/= smart character?

>>50968345
Giving someone a hint on a question isn't filling out their homework for them.

All in all the childish vitriol you're throwing about doesn't really say good things about your gming. Paints you as a bit of a control freak, which is probably the worst quality a gm can have.

You also didn't answer my question. Do you as a gm get away with the things you're berating theoretical players for doing?

>>50968388
Anon, a 40 Watt bulb is brighter than you.

>>50968337
He isn't, though. He's entering commands to his RPG character, and I am the computer. That isn't even close to fun for me. If I was going to do game design that limited, i'd learn how to code.

If my friend is that shit at role playing, I won't do RPGs with him. Simple as that. We can just play as vidya. He might be rather fun to play vidya with, but if i'm the only one worldbuilding and role playing, I am not having fun. I can just write my own fiction for that. Why is he here, why am I doing so much more work for such a small reward?

And given that most bad guy shit happens OFF SCREEN, NOT FOCUSING ON THE PLAYERS, no, I don't narrate it, since that would be fucking stupid and not make a good story.

Roleplaying is a social experience, so you MUST have some social aptitude to participate. I'm not talking "suave", i'm talking "can entertain the concept of a hypothetical conversation".

>>50968333
Typically I do, or teach them in game by having things that I won't accept incur penalties. I agree that shaming people is a dick fucking move, and has no room at any table i'm the head of.

I agree with the investigation aspect. "I search for clues" is where i'd draw that line, anything else would get bonuses unless it was exceedingly stupid/specific.

>>50957220
>>50957795
>Hypocrisy
>>50958576
yes, Reactionary roleplaying is a major issue.
>"My character is a dark and brooding adventurer of few(read: zero) words. he doesn't waste time on petty smalltalk"
>"dude we are literally asking you about how to solve a life or death puzzle right now"
>"..."
>*edge intensifies*
like many examples, its a good way to have your character become the primary target of the party
or in more frequent cases, its a good way to have your character suddenly die, with not a single party member giving a flying fuck and continuing without skipping a beat.

>>50958969
>If every encounter doesn't kill at least one member of our party, then whether as player or GM I have personally failed the group.
>If my character ever dies in any encounter, the group and GM have personally failed me.

so basically they want to be the mary sue that never dies even when the entire rest of the group has rolled their third character.

>>50959842
My response to scenarios like this is to force the players to actually roleplay out their statements, and make the rolls after their lines have finished to see whether the NPC "bought it"
if theyre a fucking spaghetticunt they automatically critical fail, just like how taking too long should net you >>50959892
same goes for linguistics characters (though if they have to write some sort of forged letter they get time-between-sessions to do it). I loved it when I was playing one

>>50960677
>You see BSF flailing his sword against a rock wall, while Sneaky McRogue vanishes into the underbrush seeking a way to flank the cave. And then everything catches fire.
>average_tabletop_session.jpg
not even with the example of trying to steal initiative, after DMing games you come to the horrifying realization that players are absolutely insane.
its magical.

>>50968419
I think you need to meet half way here. He might be putting no effort forward and I just don't know the guy, but one of the best GMs I've ever had knew how to ask the question "How?"

"I'm going to try and distract him."
"How do you want to do that?"
"I'll charm him"
"How?"
"I'm going to compliment his gun, ask him where he got it"
And if you think there's potential for entertainment or development there, THEN he would throw on a "let's roleplay that out". I was a pretty big shut in but he knew not to throw me in the deep end and I ended up turning out ok. I then had a lot of context and that helped a ton playing a face as a monotone anti-social in real life. You might have to help him out with suggestions but if he truly tries and isn't just half there, he''ll start catching on quick.

>>50952089
Please tell me that didn't happen in one of your sessions.

>>50968495
I think you may have been a bit mistaken there, I was just commenting on how i'd react in the OP's situation, having dealt with stuff like that in the past. That's a pretty good way to help them ease themselves into a character, though, so I do agree with you.

>>50967470

literally the current campaign i'm in, except replace "abandon the mission" with "executing some fucking absurdly multilayer plan whos infallibility is surpassed only by the following four hours of boredom it produces because the GM decided to fucking metagame his own game and manufacture every engineered/magic countermeasure against the party possible."
>>50968337
>Do you narrate every action and word spoken by your bad guys while they set up their plans, or does most of that just happen?
generally you don't tell players what happens offscreen. thats literally why the GM has a screen

>>50968495
This.

While players should feel free to play characters out of their comfort zone, every player, through nature of being a player, needs to meet a certain level of charisma IRL to even start playing a tabletop.

In addition to that, if you plan on playing the party face, you are going to have to expect to be doing a lot of roleplay. If you seriously cannot cope with that, retire and give face role to someone who can, if not for the sake of being better at the crunch, at the very least for the fun of it.

The same goes for playing party brains. There are no rolls for making a plan to beat the badguys.

for tabletops, its the roleplay that gives the game life, otherwise its a bunch of cunts rolling dice on a blank mat and stating what they're doing next. its not like those bethesda viddygaems where everything is spoonfed to you.
its literally make your own adventure creation kit with friends. so just "rolling a dice" to be done with it doesn't really fly.

>>50968514
Not in my games, thank grod. But I've read enough posts. And before you ask, that was long before I even heard about /tg/, or its magical realm meme.

>>50955793
This, man. Even shitty fake accents are great.

Shitty real accents are cancer, though. Fuck you, French people, learn to speak a real language.

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>>50946874
don't worry anon, i understand what you're saying and agree. they can't differentiate between the layman's use of "accent" and the linguist's use. you're trying to teach definitions to people who don't like to learn, and getting involved in an argument on the internet as a result. just don't make that mistake again.

>>50968585
>generally you don't tell players what happens offscreen. thats literally why the GM has a screen

To yourself in your alone time. How are any of your smart, wise, charming, cunning, or mad villains doing what they do? Clearly if you need to know down to the word what players are doing, you should know just as much about your villains if their plans are ever intercepted. How else will you explain these things to your players when they find out?

How else will they know that the villain is actually smart enough to pull off the trap he convinced his target to fall into? You don't just say that happened do you?

>>50944956
It's all abstraction, man. What that other poster said was a good point, the characters themselves are all used to fighting, and could reasonably be expected to have training or knowledge or instincts that would equate to 20 minutes of several real world nerds planning.

>>50968712
That argument doesn't work, considering role playing is a STORY TELLING EXERCISE, in addition to the players NOT KNOWING THE BBEG IS CURRENTLY DOING THAT, if you view it in a simulationist sense. That argument doesn't just not work, it's deliberately stupid.

>>50968712
>Clearly if you need to know down to the word what players are doing, you should know just as much about your villains if their plans are ever intercepted.

You only ever need to know what you plan to have intercepted. Schrodingers world, nothing exists until the GM wills it.

and the GM should be willing their players to fucking roleplay. in a TableTop ROLEPLAYING Game

if you want to make rolls to bypass and sort of developmental dialogue, they made a videogame that specifically does that.
its called Fallout 3.

also like >>50968760
>HURR DURR IF YOU FORCE A PLAYER TO TALK TO AN NPC LIKE A FUCKING HUMAN BEING YOU HAVE TO ROLEPLAY OUT EVERY SINGLE ACTION YOU DO BEHIND THE SCENES TO YOURSELF

>>50968701
Really, what possible benefits did his posts contribute?

>>50946874
Worry anon, I understand what you're saying and agree. Like me however, they can differentiate between the layman's use of a post and the pedantic idiot's use. You're trying to teach definitions to people who didn't ask to learn your terms, and starting a pointless argument on the internet as a result. Just don't make that mistake again.

>>50968162
I refuse to believe this kind of player exists. If someone is so abysmal at socialization how did they join your group to begin with? Surely some sort of conversation took place for that to happen?

>>50968777
>looking for group threads
>joining in TTS/R20 games randomly
>being invited through obligation/ proxy such as via a club.

there's so many ways GMs end up with strange players they don't know, and with that comes these people.

>>50968777
I have trouble finding groups in general as well as joining them (Can't do voice mikes), so I tend to drag people in from work, friends, friends of friends. Sometimes I make good friends out of it, sometimes I get. That.

>>50968760
Yeah, that's why I deliberately mention "How else will you explain these things to your players when they find out? "

Do your baddies never actually interact with the party or something? Why are they the baddies if their plans never come into contact with the players?

>>50968782
>looking for group threads
>joining in TTS/R20 games randomly
Don't you normally have to apply to these sorts of things? Talk to the gm, set up a time, discuss things?
>being invited through obligation/ proxy such as via a club.
How are such socially fucked people joining clubs? Same as the above also still holds. I was part of a club in college, and if you wanted into a game you either showed up and asked the gm face to face, or emailed them if you missed the big "games are starting" meeting.

>>50968790
I won't explain shit, any details that aren't obvious/necessary they have to work for/ask. The baddies also will not explain shit, as that goes against having their plans. Well. Not foiled.

What exactly are you getting at at this point, anyways, your argument's lost clarity. Like, how does this relate to excusing a lack of Role Playing in a Role Playing Game?

>>50944407

> with 6 people ordering food from [TAKEOUT PLACE], I don't really need to add in a tip, everyone else will cover it.
> For that matter, I really don't need to add in tax either
> As long as I'm somewhat close to what my order was, it'll all work out

We eventually learned by pooling the money one day then tallying down what each person bought including tax, tip, and how much they contributed, who That Guy was. From that point on that's what we did and That Guy got grumpy that we didn't trust him to put in his proper amount.

>>50944407

another one:

> dnd 3.5
> I'm a paladin with detect evil at will!
> I can roll around using detect evil 24/7
> As a paladin it is my duty to murderhobo every evil aligned person I see, no discussion

>>50968826
>I don't have to know how my baddie does things because I'll never let my players find out how he does things.
Sounds fun. Maybe you are only ever restricting yourself to villains that are as smart and charismatic as yourself, they sound about as interesting.

>>50968777
>I refuse to believe this kind of player exists.
Like I care what you belive in
> If someone is so abysmal at socialization how did they join your group to begin with
Because friends asked. Half of people joining student groups are guys and chicks not interested in the hobby in the slightest, but either their friends from year/uni asked them to join or they want to spend time with their uni friends. Which easily can lead to situation where they don't care about the game, but are playing (in theory) and maybe even enjoying some parts of it, but just not taking active part and sitting silent.

It's like you fucking never run a game with half-random people. Or any game at all, really. It's so fucking common there will be such person in pretty much every new group

>>50968858
And these people of yours sound like the type to opt for the kind of roles you get all pissy about.

>>50968857
Surprise, i'm the GM, i'm reasonably intelligent and pretty charismatic, given that I recruited the players and thought of the narrative.

I also do research to figure out how these things really work! Sure, I can't do it on the fly, but I can figure out how the villains do it! Wow, look at all of this work i'm doing!

Also, i'll totally let my players find out how they do things, I WANT them to know, they just have to WORK for it, since I worked to put it there, and working for things make a good game.

Also, if my Villain's, say, a poet, and i'm not, they're going to be /really boring/. Thank goodness I design my villains to play to my strengths, rather than forcing myself into a role I cannot fulfill.

>>50968883
>Regulars picking their regular roles/know what to pick/picking first/whatever other reason
>Newfags picking roles that are still left
>Most likely it will be some skill monkey, because rarely people "main" skillmonkeys
Not even him, but this scenario is really common.
Exactly how many different groups you had in your life? One?

>>50968894
...all of my villains are fascist traitors or love struck madmen. It's not even by design, it just happens that way, every single time.

>>50968777
>I refuse to believe this kind of player exist
>Refuse to believe
See, this is the entire problem. You assume that your own personal experience, which apparently is very limited, is some sort of universal reference point and anyone who experienced anything else is just lying.
Newsflash, newfag - "Silent Bob" is one of the main player archetypes in existence.

>>50968925
Well, people tend to write characters they can relate to.


... /pol/, is that you?

>>50968935
If he was /pol/, fascist traitors would be the good guys

>>50968894
>i'm reasonably intelligent and pretty charismatic
Funny, that isn't the impression you've been giving me at all.

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>>50968857
>ignoring the entire argument because you are still caught in the belief that GMs dont think out their Narratives.
>derailing your entire argument to pursue semantic garbage that is not only unnessescary, but also wrong

Gee anon, I wonder what your fucking campaigns are like then.

>>50968966
Of course not, I have a badwrong opinion. You're a bit biased.

>>50968585
How can you reply to me, say "This", and then so drastically miss anything I just told you. You're an asshole.

>>50968977
What can I say. These arguments have been happening for a long time, and they always go the same way. Got to spice them up some how ya cunt.

>>50969002
>make an argument pointing that a Good GM will allow reasonable players to play withi their comfort zone, but will still corral them into actually roleplaying when the need arises
>agree with said point, saying that achieving the end goal of roleplaying is necesscary, but players who are outright unreasonable should relinquish the role to those who are willing.
>"youre an asshole"
th-thanks bud.

>>50969008
>start argument
>is wrong
>derails argumen on a semantic
>is wrong again
>"i spiced it up"
you wasted everyones time. stop shitposting.

>>50969051
Didn't start it. Still right, just being a cunt about it. Haven't brought up semantics at all. Still right.

I'll give you the wasting everyone's time bit though. Though that would have happened anyway. Again, this argument pops up quite a bit, surprised nobody hasn't started talking about applying it to strength yet.

>>50969088
When like, half the damn thread is telling you're an idiot, and the rest of it isn't commenting, it's time to reconsider your point.

>>50969088
>LALALA I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG
still shitposting to spite me, I see.

>>50969104
STOP RESPONDING TO HIM YOU FUCKING IDIOT,
It's like you don't know how to deal with trolls

>>50969047
You stopped at "maybe the player might need to move an inch, I don't know the whole situation" and stopped there to say "Yeah! They shouldn't play that!" When the main part of post is that they don't need those skills to play those skills.

Let's go back to square one, the source of everything. At post one, it was stated you jumped right into telling him to roleplay as soon as he asked to do something, and then getting mad when he didn't emerge as the improv master you expected him to. If you can pay dnd with improv comedians, that's fine, but in my experience all you need is as a GM, set it up and most people will give a good performance unless they truly just hate dnd. Ask how. That part is the part you missed as a DM. If they're a little new you can nudge them along, but most people my DM has worked with find that shyness in this game spawns more from confusion than lack of charisma. Elaborating in small doses and then roleplaying that out is way easier.

>>50969098
Ah yes. Only one of me, but many of you.

>>50950870
My group looks at me like I'm stupid when I give them chopsticks for the snacks (barring like if we go for real food) like chips or appetizers I've made.
Bitches I paid ninety dollars for the Five Rings books, seventy for all the Numenera stuff, ninety for all the Fifth Edition D&D, the only not-expensive book in my library is Savage Worlds, and I still don't want your grease-stained fingers touching it. Fuck.

>>50968831
I dunno, that's not HORRIBLE depending on the amount he's stiffing. One of our guys uses his card to pay for everything and we just give him the cash, he doest stress if our order was $6.50 and we only give him a five sometimes. As long as it's not more than two bucks, and/or every session, then it's a problem.

>>50969154
perhaps we can agree that the way we DM is different but agreeable.

with my players, I will always start with a regular conversation between them and [syndicate guard #5748563].
an example of shit I hate
>Party approaches guard
>Guard: "stop right there, no tresspa-"
>Partyface: "I roll diplo to convince him we're Syndicate Officials"
>Guard: "...sing."

Shit I prefer:
>guard: "Halt, No trespassing"
>partyface: "Hello there, we are on business X, we are officials, can you let us in?"
>roll diplo
>succeed
>guard responds in kind

now, if you have a lot of events in your campaign where the party has to bypass guards or do other diplo tasks, then yes, you may want to automate the process by saying "I'll just roll to be let in as per previous occasions"

but at the end of the day you want your players being immersed, whether it be gradually by your method, or taught to just play naturalistically, the important thing is they're being made to interact with your world and its characters
not just announcing and rolling the entire campaign.

>>50944590
>>50944614
>>50944627

An adage that applies half the time is an adage that works none of the time.

>>50969441
always salt your pasta when cooking it.

>>50969259
If you feel that conversation needs more, just ask him what evidence you're presenting to convince the guard. Start with a simple logical question and conversation will come from him rationalizing it. That gives him a very solid jumping off point and a situation where planning was encouraged. Just asking him to say what he says doesn't sound much different but it's a way more open ended questions.

>>50944608
I can't help it, dammit. I over-analyze everything. there's no way the professor would make to terms cancel out, so I must have done the entire problem wrong, so I have to re-solve it from scratch. except I did it right the first time. for three different tests, including two final exams. fuck.

>>50969441
So that adage works none of the time?
Wait, is that a paradox?

>>50956628
Is this real?

>>50969441
Always cook your berries before you eat them, and fly toward the sun.

>>50970195
It is, the worst part is that sometimes the person actually is in the right.

>>50944956
>I don't mind preparation or combat chatter but don't stand around for five minutes having an actual conversation in battle. What I generally do to force pressure on the players is I use a simple hourglass timed for a minute. When your turn starts I flip it, if it runs out before you start rolling your turn is skipped. I also limit players to combat speak, someone can say a couple lines of dialogue during their turn and other players can use their reactions to respond. If you used your reaction for something else tough luck.

Whiny cuck players will rail you for this one, but it's GMs like you that actually make combat feel interesting and intense. Kudos.

>>50970195
I've seen people that haven't read the rulebooks stop the game dead in its tracks so they can argue about stuff they should know before chargen.

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>>50952176
>TV shows are a good source of character inspiration right?

>Movies are a good source of character inspiration right?

>Comics are a good source of character inspiration right?

"Everyone will appreciate if I treat every turn in combat as a lateral thinking puzzle, and breaking the rules for the sake of a cool narrative is a good idea."
"I'm going to secretly carry this thing. The GM will think it a delightful surprise when I reveal I had been secretly carrying the silver bullet for whatever challenge he throws at the party."
"Tabletop RPGs let you do anything, unlike video games, right? I'd like to make an immortal demigod for this 10 point budget game. Surely that's what 'you can do anything means.'"
"Tabletop RPGs mean you can do anything right? Surely everyone will enjoy my vampire loli kitsune in this Normandy invasion campaign."

>>50971514
>"I'm going to secretly carry this thing. The GM will think it a delightful surprise when I reveal I had been secretly carrying the silver bullet for whatever challenge he throws at the party."
But that's literally what Gizmo advantage is for in GURPS and thus the GM mus be always prepared for such probability. Player gains an ability to "bend" reality by having unspecified small item with himself. As long as it's not used, it can be just about anything, turning into the useful small object when player decides it's about time to go for it and use it.
And silver bullet fits the description of it.
So it doesn't need to be bad, it just depends how it's executed

>Surely everyone will enjoy my vampire loli kitsune in this Normandy invasion campaign
There are games allowing and encouraging playing something like this, so what's your problem? Lack of exposure?

>>50955850
But even worse are GMs who don't let you use charisma rolls for anything.

>Surely everyone will enjoy it if I inject my political beliefs into the game. After all, if I do not enjoy something, others will want to hear about it and educate themselves on why they are wrong to enjoy it. Then, perhaps a visit to an RPG website so that I can signal my own virtue!

>>50972333
For number 1, I was thinking of a real life occurrence that did happen in GURPS, and explicitly wasn't using Gizmo. She got really mad when I suggested that saying you had a sword all along in the middle of a fight without paying for it, and not having the gizmo advantage, was not clever, but just breaking the rules. Did specifically mention gizmo though afterward.

#2 is a bit of an ambiguation, but I get tons of arguments about how GURPS can do anything and why it isn't fair if this setting is TL4 age of exploration sailing in a fantasy universe, why can't they have a character that is literally (literally) from Dragon Age. Or why if they ask for a political campaign, and they make a Dungeon Fantasy character, it gets frustrating to me when they fuss if I tell them how they need to change it.
Those are two scenarios that did actually happen.

>>50968851
I'm pretty sure that paladins have some sort of thing in their oath about not harming the innocent or something? If a dude happens to be a coward who would totally be raping houses and setting fire to women were he not such a coward, he'd probably ping as evil but could also be argued to be innocent. That'd fox him.

>>50968904
Hehehe, I think this is where I get to feel smug. I'm quietly picking up a habit of making knowledge-monkeys, because someone's got to work out that the giant ant is vulnerable to, say, acid or something.

>>50944529
Bait, but it really does. Every element of high level Magic play is designed to reduce randomness and eke every possible advantage out of a card. There's a reason tonnes of high level poker players play Magic for fun.

>>50944917
>Short of kicking the players, or leaving the group, I've never found a solution.
I've done this a few times in the past and here are three minor changes the GM could make to prevent it:

make combat more lethal and less damaging so people aren't left with limpy gimpy characters

If someone seems unhappy with a character, particularly in a more wargamey system where they were forced to pick a character to fill a role, consider a retirement or respeccing plan or something to let them make a character more to their liking while still respecting party dynamics

Don't be afraid to kill characters yourself, lots of the real WITNESS ME behaviour is due to a feeling that nothing they do matters because they're being railroaded.

>>50944983
Or the related
>torture is reasonable in a universe with truth spells and mind reading
If you torture someone in a universe where you can use a variety of effects to magically compel communication and truth then you should be seen as a nasty bastard because there's no reason to do it beyond fun

>>50969451
Wait, you mean you shouldn't salt pasta when cooking it? I've been lied to!

>>50972772
No, that means you are almost certainly That Guy who likes to have shitty excuse to quote obscure rule from paragraph 10, page 255, allowing him to fuck up the entire encounter, "because I have 14 in Knowledge: Excuses"

>>50944614
Not at all m8.
Violence of action.

It's why when a stack busts through a doorway even if you get shot as the first guy or see something that startles you (bad guy with a big gun) you keep moving to your assigned position so everyone else can get in.
If you freeze in the doorway you die, your friends probably die, and it's all ruined.

It's always better to keep trucking and try to overwhelm the issue than to stand around and fuck up.

>>50944407
>If I go adept and just put all my BP and karma into punching then I become broken as shit.

Number one mistake bad player make in shadow run. Because yes it makes your character broken, but in a game about stealth, intrigue, and magic it also makes you useless.

>>50973226
>a game about stealth, intrigue, and magic
>shadowrun
Pick one.

>>50972869
Given that I've been playing DtD for the past few months, not really. Kinda difficult to use obscure rules to break the literally three-and-a-half knowledge skills in DtD.

>>50969219

It was a bad look, sometimes we were tipping the delivery guy less than 5 bucks for a 80 dollar order. If he had said, 'guys, I'm short this week' any one of us would have covered him but he didn't, he tried to be sneaky. And like I said it wasn't just this one time we caught him, for a long time we did the whole tally system because That Guy was always trying to stiff us.

>>50972830
At least once

>>50970195
People playing system for years yet still getting some parts of the rules wrong is more than you'd like to admit. Applying crit fails / crit success on skill checks in D&D is perhaps the most common offense.

>>50974390
The original greentext anon here. While I admit, what you said often happens, my point was about a know-nothing-know-it-all guys who constantly try to correct you, when it's obvious they have no fucking clue what the hell they are talking about and you are right anyway.