OSR General

For as much fun and neat ideas there are in the retroclones (and there are a lot of really cool ideas), I happen to have a Rules Cyclopedia and don't mind busting that out every so often. Sometimes, I just like playing "the" D&D, warts and all.

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>warts and all.
Fuck you and fuck your cat.

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>>50908847
>Retroclone or original games, which do you prefer?
Clones. Creative development on the original OSR games was a collaboration between a small handful of people insulated and inculcated within a narrow range of play, further constrained by the Satanic Panic. There are cool outliers, like the Perrin Conventions/RuneQuest, but ultimately there were about as many people working on OD&D/1e/Basic as there are >publishers< these days. We've come up with a lot of new, interesting stuff that fits the needs and playstyle of the OSR (drop charts, RAtD, OPD, tighter mechanics for literally every aspect of the rules), with an eye to playability rather than precision. And it's fucking good.

There's a place for Moldvay and Mentzer on my shelf, and there always will be. Just as I have my orange-back and black-back 1e books or my binders full of old modules. I still mine them for ideas, and they make a good reference point. But I'd no more run AD&D unmodified these days than G1-4 - shit needs too much hacking for me to enjoy it. Its position as "common reference" has been taken up by LabLord, OSRIC, DCC, and Lamentations (depending on your personal inclinations). Basic has likewise been displaced as an entry-level system. I do know people who play RC and CMI for their general awesome insanity. but that's something that few of the heartbreakers have tried to dupe.

To continue on what i said in the old thread, INT WIS and CHA all feels like dump stats in BFRPG except the fact that you use them for ability checks. Hell even a magic-user dosent gain anything from having a high INT score except some languages. How would you guys make these ability scores more useful?

>>50909140
Fold them together to make dumping it less desirable.

>>50906200
What's wrong with just rereading it?
I mean, sorry if I'm being a dick, I guess I just never understood the value of unread stuff. Most of the shit I love I've read a dozen times. Reread Ill Met or Issek of the Jug or that one where they steal an entire house and chuckle like an idiot.

Alternatively, maybe get the comics Mignola drew? AFAIK Dark Horse is still printing the omnibus trade.

>>50908847
>Retroclone or original games, which do you prefer?
I prefer the RC for a game, there's just nothing to compete with it for completeness or physical format, but the OSR modules and supplements are superior. As much as I have a soft spot for the old Known World Gazetteers, Yoon-Suin blows shit like Ierendi or Atruaghin Clans out of the water.

>>50909176
The problem is that i don't want to make them into tow/one stat because i still want to use them for ability checks

>>50909012
Compared to some of the more recent retroclones, it's definitely clunky to read through and use as a resource, and that's putting it lightly. Not to mention the huge fuckin' errata document Mr. Reaper over on Dragonsfoot put together so that way the rules in the RC would be the same as those in the individual BECM books. Like, when you have to errata stuff just to make everything work the same as older books, to make sure rules aren't being ignored outright, there might be a couple of issues (mostly on the editor). I still grew up with BECMI D&D, and I'll still love it until the day I die, but don't try and say it's a perfect system, because we both know it's not.

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>>50908847
I've been thinking of getting my players to switch from playing 5e to trying Lamentations of the Flame Princess for my next campaign. The problem is they don't like to read. I had problems getting them to read through the 5e players handbook and I'm worried having them read another player's handbook will just turn them away from trying the game. Is there a PDF or some images that sum up the most important parts they need to know about running the game? Carry capacity, combat and classes and items? Shit like that?

>>50909321
I haven't run LotFP myself, but you shouldn't have to make them read anything. Give them a short (verbal) introduction to the setting and comment on the more obvious rule changes in LotFP, the rest they can learn in the course of play. Rules are for the DM.

>>50909140
CHA shouldn't be anywhere near a dump stat and you need to check how you/BFRPG handle hirelings and reaction rolls if that's an issue.

INT and WIS are trickier because the obvious benefits one might want to give them tend to interfere with player agency. Consider using INT rolls to determine if the PC knows a given fact, I guess, and WIS to... I dunno, to be honest, maybe someone else has a good idea?

INT and WIS are definitely the trickiest stats, though.

>>50909503
My group have never had any hirelings or henchmen so CHA is worthless to them and the can't even bother with it, we only use CHA abscore for social interactions.

I have thought about adding INT and WIS to one stat and then add Luck as a ned stat that gives 1-3 rerolls / day.

>>50909503

WISDOM is used to control and sense magic. It is analogous to Willpower. In the same way Charisma is used to help control hirelings, Wisdom is used to control magic creatures and ongoing magic effects.

For example, the party Fighter sees the animated skeleton of his grandpa, grandpa can somehow resist undead urges and joins his Grandson. So the fighter gets a friendly skeleton pet who he can tell to do things, or resist being turned by holy symbols by using Wisdom.

Maybe somebody in your party used a flame - spell on a scroll and it gets out of control? Wisdom.

Also if you have a spiritual or animist setting let people add Wisdom to their modifiers when dealing with and praying to random nature spirits.

Also also also- Wisdom should be used for initiative and surprise, not Dexterity. Just my opinion, though I'm sure most won't like it.

>>50909761
>WISDOM is used to control and sense magic.
But that doesn't make any sense, as INT is clearly the wizardly magic stat.

>>50909969

INT is the total sum of your ability to learn, memorize and catalog magic spells. Wisdom is your spiritual awareness and power, and in my opinion good settings have magic that is more spiritual then mere rote memorization.

>>50909321
Why would your players need to read anything? Only the GM has to know the rules.

>>50909522
>CHA is worthless to them
Reaction checks? If you're not using reaction checks, you're not running a proper old school game. Reaction checks should be utilized even in dungeons and not only in peaceful social interactions.

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Am I the only one that thinks LotFP has some of the most dogshit ugly art in OSR?

Is it supposed to be some kind of inside joke with every blogger talking about the beautiful artwork inside? People make a point of saying they're not weirded out by the gore or whatever, but what about the covers looking like deviant art cancer shat out on commission for furries and the majority of the interiors done by a 14 year old making flash games on newgrounds in 2006? Is this some kind of hipster kitsch I've not been let in on?

>>50910111
Well i am using reaction checks, everybody dislikes them but the often play evil heroes, doing the shit for money and being bountyhunters. And you dont really need good CHA for dungeon crawling....

>>50910149
The art is not bad at all but I've no idea why the game gets so much attention and praise. It's a pretty generic B/X clone.

>>50910171
>And you dont really need good CHA for dungeon crawling....
Good CHA helps with dungeon crawling. That's the point.

>>50909522
>My group have never had any hirelings or henchmen so CHA is worthless to them and the can't even bother with it, we only use CHA abscore for social interactions.
I don't want to tell you that you're playing wrong or anything but... if you don't have hirelings and won't use the reaction roll rules, of course Charisma's going to be worthless. That's like running a no-combat game and not using the encumbrance rolls, of course Strength will be a trash stat in that case. There's not really a lot that can be *done* about a thing like that (and it's definitely not a flaw of the system); you just took out the justification for its existence.

>>50910183
I'm not so used to dungeon crawling, mostly played open camps. in dragonlance so as a dm i dont really know how to handle them, how are you supposed to handle it ?

>>50910189
It's not that i cant do or dont use retrainers and npc, it's that my players dont want to use them so they nerver hire / recruit any.

>>50910198
Say you encounter a small group of goblins roaming the dungeon. The DM then rolls a reaction check for the goblins to see what their initial attitude towards the adventurers will be. It might even be possible to bargain with them, bribe them, use them in clever ways, scare them away without a fight or whatever. If the goblins don't have a valid reason to attack the party on sight, a reaction check should be rolled. The goblins, being intelligent monsters, should gauge their relative strength compared to the party of adventurers and act sensibly.

Every monster being a walking sack of XP waiting to be killed is a modern concept that makes games worse.

>>50910198
>how are you supposed to handle it ?
You're supposed to roll a reaction check every time the players encounter a monster (or human, or whatever). They might turn out to be ambivalent, or even friendly; the idea being the monsters have lives and want to preserve them, they don't just skulk in the same twenty feet of corridor at all times, waiting to murder anything that wanders past or die trying.

Charisma modifies the probability of the roll giving positive results, so it helps you avoid the dangers of combat in favor of say bribing the monsters, convincing them to let you pass, or even recruiting them.

>>50910269
>>50910281
Do you roll for a party in whole ? Do you roll for the one with the highest CHA or lowest ?

>>50910303
>Do you roll for a party in whole ?
Yep.
>Do you roll for the one with the highest CHA or lowest ?
Typically the party leader/the PC of the player doing the talking. You can simplify it to "highest CHA", sure.

>>50910303
Depends on what's happening in the game. If the "leader" character with the highest charisma makes contact with the monsters then that character's bonus should be applied.

What's your favorite way for Fighters to advance?

>>50910320
From the flank on horseback

>>50910173
Yeah this.
The modules have cool stuff in them and I enjoy reading a lot of them, but the game itself seems like nothing to write home about.

>>50910173
It's not about the system, though. It's all about those pre-written adventures.

>>50910189
It's fairly common not to use hirelings (I'd say it's much more common than not that hirelings get little to no use), but pretty rare to run a no-combat game. That doesn't change the fact that Charisma is getting de-powered by playing the game differently than it was intended, but it is a pretty common occurrence.

>>50909522
I have only one mental stat in my game: intelligence. It's mostly just a combination of Intelligence and Wisdom with Charisma rolls being improvised based on backgrounds and such.

>I have thought about adding INT and WIS to one stat and then add Luck as a ned stat that gives 1-3 rerolls / day.
I give something similar with my combined Intelligence stat. Your intelligence bonus adds to the number of talent points you get (4 + bonus). 1 talent point spent before a d20 roll lets you roll twice and take the better result. 2 talent points let you reroll a failed d20 roll. 1 talent point spent before a to-hit roll lets you inflict +50% of damage (should you hit). 2 talent points lets you inflict +50% damage after confirming you've hit. You can only spend talent once on a given task (you can't roll twice and then reroll, or reroll and inflict 50% extra damage). Exception: if you fail a d20 roll by 1 point, you can spend a point of talent to automatically succeed (even if you've already spent talent on the roll)--this is called "following through". To avoid people hoarding talent "just in case", you can only spend talent on saving throws when following through.

I use single-stat saving throws, modified by your appropriate attribute modifier. Intelligence applies to illusions and to some mind-influencing magic, but saving throws relating to fear or sheer willpower are influenced only by level and class.

>>50910404
A lot of which are as shit as the art.

However, Jim "Edge" Goremurder does occasionally publish a module or other book by someone who's a right genius - they're the things worth getting.

>I have a lot of raging swans press's stuff, including dungeon dressing and a couple gm's miscellany. I'll send them to mageguru later today.
Any luck on this? This'd be a lifesaver, honestly.

>>50910694
Hi, I'm that anon. I sent the email to MageGuru last night, and he said the files will be up in a couple days since they need to be cleaned.
I sent All That Glimmers, Caves and Caverns, Dungeon Dressing, Urban Dressing, and Wilderness Dressing

>>50910750
Thanks a ton, anon, this is great. I owe you a beer!

>>50908847
I prefer the clones because the hardcopy for the originals aren't as easy to obtain as I'd like, and unless I'm buying it in a used book store I have no way of knowing precisely what condition the books are in.

I also enjoy seeing the slight variations in the rules. It is nice to see the basic game slowly evolve

>>50910769
Ha, no problem. I figured it was my time to finally give to the community. And if we do run into each other by chance, I'll hold you to that!

>>50908847
>Retroclone or original games, which do you prefer?
B/X or OD&D LBB for me, plus the complete works of Kevin Crawford and a whole bunch of other OSR stuff, primarily LL-based. So, LL, I guess.

But I don't actually play LL, I just use its third party products in other games.

>>50910281
This only works in OSR where monsters don't give XP. If XP comes from gold, exploration and/or finishing quests, there is a chance to talk.

>>50910792
>the hardcopy for the originals aren't as easy to obtain as I'd like
if you dig around in groggy old-school communities, there are some private but very nicely done OD&D reprints on Lulu. IIRC less than £3 for a nice single volume core set, plus shipping (of course) but if you wait for a good coupon or free shipping (or just place a big order) you can get like 40% off pretty easily.

>>50910507
>It's fairly common not to use hirelings (I'd say it's much more common than not that hirelings get little to no use), but pretty rare to run a no-combat game. That doesn't change the fact that Charisma is getting de-powered by playing the game differently than it was intended, but it is a pretty common occurrence.
Agreed; that's why I wanted to make sure I didn't seem to be saying that he was playing the game wrong. I just wanted to suggest that it was a fairly inevitable consequence of his playstyle, as you say.

Thinking about it further, I do think I was also unconsciously trying to get at that there's a distinction between CHA and INT/WIS in that regard: CHA is mostly a solved problem, in a sense; there are strong suggestions in the rulebook for how to make it useful, almost crucial even. With INT and WIS on the other hand, it's never really been clear, which of course is because they started out being prime requisites along with STR and having no other function. So in a way it's more like STR found a useful, secondary-trait niche like DEX, CON and CHA and INT/WIS never did, than that those two were dump stats all along.

>>50910885
>there are some private but very nicely done OD&D reprints on Lulu
Link to this pls, would order instantly but don't know where to look

>>50910970
Do we have any solutions on how to not make INT/WS dumpstats for Fighters and Thives ?

My group will probably add a simple skill system and therefor skill points that INT could affect.

>>50911028
Well, you could always do something similar to the talent point thing I was talking about. Also, while I'm not overly fond of bonuses to earned experience, it could be affixed to Int/Wis rather than to Str (which is plenty useful for fighters on its own). If you have fighters gaining extra attacks, maybe your Int/Wis modifier could influence how this works somehow (letting you get extra attacks at an earlier level, or reduce your penalty when making multiple attacks--if there is a penalty for using multiple attacks in your game). Awareness rolls and Knowledge/Lore checks can be pretty important, depending on how you play the game. You could also maybe use Int/Wis as 6th sense / intuition / common sense saving throw sort of thing to see if you should warn somebody when they're about to do something dangerous or stupid. If you're using weapon proficiencies or specialization/mastery it could give you more of those, or affect the penalty/bonus. Maybe a high enough stat lets you steal a limited power from another class. You get a thief skill at a lower level (one skill at 80% of what the thief's would be for each +1 modifier, +2 could either give you two skills like that or one at full), or you gain minor spell casting ability (using the magic-user table at 1/4 your level, or the cleric table at 1/3 your level + Int/Wis modifier). Your Wis could represent the strength of your spirit and therefore how tenaciously your soul clings to life, giving you a save vs. death modified by your Wis when you reach the point at which the game says you're dead.

>>50911028
>Do we have any solutions on how to not make INT/WS dumpstats for Fighters and Thives ?
>My group will probably add a simple skill system and therefor skill points that INT could affect.

>wants fighters and thieves to care about INT
>buffs magic-users

you could start by scrapping the thief class and rolling it into fighter, and then note that while wizards have a high int, they don't get bonus skills because all their smartness is devoted to obscure minutiae of magical systems and much as they don't have time to learn how to be a badass with a sword, they don't have time to master heraldry or calculus or wilderness survival except insofar as it directly affects their magic.

>>50911205
>using the magic-user table at 1/4 your level, or the cleric table at 1/3 your level + Int/Wis modifier
That is:

Your casting level as a cleric = (your level + your Int/Wis modifier) / 3

...or...

Your casting level as a magic-user = (your level + your Int/Wis modifier) / 4

An alternate scheme would be to get magic-user spells as a magic-user 1/5 your level for a +1 modifier, 1/4 your level for a +2 modifier, and 1/3 your level for a +1 modifier. For cleric spells, it would be 1/4, 1/3 and 1/2.

oh my god the art on page 5 of broodmother skyfortress is amazing.

that homage to exalted's classic savant & sorcerer cover has changed my life, and possibly altered my eyesight. I need new glasses now.

ilu jrients

>>50911415
>that homage to exalted's classic savant & sorcerer cover has changed my life, and possibly altered my eyesight. I need new glasses now.
I remember that cover. I want to know, but at the same time I don't.

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>>50911457
It's in the mega trove, one of the latest items in the inbox, but here you go, friend!

>>50911474
It's really my own fault for clicking, isn't it.

>>50911028
>Do we have any solutions on how to not make INT/WS dumpstats for Fighters and Thives ?
It's tricky: ideally, INT and WIS would be like the other stats: useful throughout the adventure, rather than just in exigencies (such as the death saves >>50911205 suggests, not a bad idea in itself but of too rare application to really fill the niche).

One of my suggestions would be that DEX is kind of overloaded and could probably bear to lose its Initiative-modifying effect to INT. Stupid brutes being slow is a pretty classic fighter/monster cliché, after all. (I wouldn't want to put it on WIS since being rash and foolish shouldn't penalize your initiative.)

WIS could potentially be added to the roll to avoid surprise, but just as with the death saves I wouldn't consider this sufficient personally.

Finally, as much as I dislike the distorting effects of letting attributes modify saves (especially negative mods, admittedly), the LotFP? thing where WIS affects all saves is a great example of it being fairly consistently useful, so if you don't mind it as much as I do you could use that rule.

>>50911474
Good GOD.

>>50911539
>Good GOD.
As always, the best LotFP books are the ones written by other people. jeff is the best other people.

>>50911565
I've always loved Jeff, but not that much or in that way.

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>>50911498
It's a really good book and well worth a read, even if bits make your face turn into this guy's.

The second half is basically a collection of his best tables and notes and random shit, and there's great material certain to improve any game, also an illustration where he's dr strange

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>>50911605
However, it's not a complete campaign! It requires that you have an existing campaign going on that you're willing to have trashed.

Fortunately Jeff has recognised that you may not have a setting handy to run the module in, and provides some useful tips. Follow this advice, then get back to answering the important questions the module presents:

>What I am asking you to do is to look over your campaign map, pick out some interesting places and ask yourself the following question:
>What would happen if a bunch of giants showed up here and wrecked up the place?

(this is the really important one by the way)

>Can the location withstand attack by giantish bludgeons and hurled boulders? Will it be completely smashed or mostly damaged or relatively unscathed?

>If the Giants attack by surprise at night, as is their wont, is there any possibility of survivors or would visitors find nothing but a collection of bloody smears?

>Will a Giant attack set off a panic, resulting in more destruction and anarchy than the Giants themselves can create?

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>>50911719
It also presents options for the nature of the giants and of the older, vanished people who built the skyfortress (spoiler: if you don't pick "jack kirby space gods" you're boring)

>>50911539
>One of my suggestions would be that DEX is kind of overloaded and could probably bear to lose its Initiative-modifying effect to INT.
I'm not sure I like the idea of book-smart geeks (and, you know, wizards) being the first ones out of the gate. Though I don't have any issue taking initiative away from Dexterity, I don't know where you'd put it, unless you make it class-based or something (purely level-based). As far as I'm concerned, you could just have it be a straight roll, or to do team initiative. If you wanted to do something special for fighters though: Int adds to *fighter* initiative, I'd be okay with that.

>>50909302
>>50909012

I am totally lost on what you to are talking about.

>>50910173
The Specialist + Firearms + Encumbrance is really the only reason to run LotFP. The modules are generally overrated IMO.

>>50911474
Help me out here please. I'm looking through the LotFP folders, but can't seem to find it

>>50912623
It's in __Inbox at the top. That's where new stuff usually goes.

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Is there any sort of published Alchemist/Apothecary class out there? I'm this close to just stealing the BFRPG Bard and refluffing the songs as various potions and incenses.

>>50909245
I will eventually. But it won't feel new or exciting when I literally JUST read it.

>>50911539
>>50912022
Would it be broken to give all classes the option to cast lvl 1 spells depending on INT / CHA

For example 1 spell/day:13-15 2 spells/day:16-17 3 spells/day:18

And then make the fighters that reaches up towards 15 INT/CHA a EldrichKnight / Paladin ? If a character would have 15+ in both he gets to choose either to have Arcane or Divine spells.

>>50912022
Nothing beats 3LBB's simplicity when it comes to handling ability scores. Each ability is useful but in a very subtle way. I think it's best to keep ability scores bonuses minor at best.

I would argue against using individual initiative because that greatly slows down combat in a game where combat in its abstractness is not very interesting to begin with.

>>50913114
>3LBB
what's this?

>>50913374

You forgot the owo, but LBB is Little Brown Books, the original published version of OD&D. (Unless you're in a Traveller thread, where it's Little Black Books that were the first publication)

>>50912796
The first thing that comes to mind is "A NEW D & D CHARACTER CLASS: THE ALCHEMIST", from The Dragon #2, p.28. It also includes an alternative system for handling poisons, which may or may not be useful.

And it's from the same issue as "Monkish Combat in the Arena of Promotion", for what it's worth. It's a half-decent issue.

>>50912796
Have https://goblinpunch.blogspot.co.nz/2015/03/manrider-alchemist-class.html while I try to find that other blog I remember with a bunch of short, neat little classes.

>>50913374
>>50913429
Basically this - the core set of three books, although since Classic Traveller supplements were mostly published as little black books sometimes people confusingly refer to the whole edition as LBBs, with the core as CT79 or CT81 or just 3LBB.

But a lot of CT fans aren't quite hardcore enough to leave out Book 5 with its rules for (much) bigger spaceships, so there aren't as many people sticking to the earliest stuff.

What's the OSR stance on a TPK followed by a new party (same players) returning to the dungeon?

Of course the new group could find the old one's gear and maps, but won't the players know where all the tricks and traps are?

Would it be a dick move to just say, "Okay, you explore this dungeon, you head to area #39 where you find the bodies of adventurers...", maybe making a few wandering monster checks en route?

>>50913600
Having a really hard time finding it, so hey, have another thing I found while googling and searching old bookmarks.

https://goblinpunch.blogspot.co.nz/2015/04/void-monks.html

(I know it's the same site - I ended up back there via circular linking and I'm trying to find that fucking alchemist. I think maybe I have a hardcopy somewhere, which may help)

>>50913756
I don't think this is it, but it's neat.

https://9and30kingdoms.blogspot.co.nz/2011/05/alchemist.html
https://9and30kingdoms.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/alchemist-and-witch.html
https://9and30kingdoms.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/the-apothecary.html

>>50913715
I'd change some things up with traps and monster placements assuming that enough time has passed between the two party's trek inside.

>>50913715
>but won't the players know where all the tricks and traps are?
That's the idea, yes.

Remember, the original dungeons were huge megadungeons that you'd adventure in EVERY TIME, and were so huge that you couldn't hope to "clear" them. (And if you got close, they'd be repopulated or just have the map swapped around a bit or whatnot. The other groups also need something to adventure in, y'know.)

And just because they know their way doesn't mean that they know all the tricks and traps - not only can they be waylaid by alternate paths, monster chases, or previously-unseen trapdoors (remember, random chance of activation), but the dungeon doesn't stay in a stasis while the players are away. Monsters move around, repopulate, eat and/or loot corpses, reset traps, don't reset some other traps... Their corpses may very well not be in area #39 anymore, having been eaten by oozes and looted by goblins.

Also, well, if they actually meet some wandering monsters on the way then something might happen to make them unable to proceed. Or their maps are bad enough that they get lost.

Also, if they got TPKed in an area it's entirely possible that they'd simply choose to ignore that area for the moment and go somewhere else slightly less dangerous instead.

>>50913715
The locals will have rearranged things, I'm sure, or may leave the corpses as bait. The inhabitants tend to change dungeons around.

On the other hand, sure, why not let them use Player Skill and justify it as following the signs (deliberate and accidental) left by the previous party? Player Skill's meant to be a thing.

>>50913715
The advice you already got is solid, but I'd even go so far as to say: establish that a month or a season has passed since the last group died; work out who would have happened upon their corpses, and move their shit — perhaps to more than one location.

(This of course is assuming a full and literal TPK; if a henchman or two survived, instead use that figure as a nucleus for the new group, perhaps on the form of him hiring some goons to go find his masters' corpses and give them a decent burial instead of letting them become monster stew, out of loyalty)

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>>50913109
I don't know about broken, but it certainly sets up a different dynamic. It could make low-level parties really fucking powerful and intrude upon the magic-user's niche. At the very least, I'd say that you want to phase in the spells. It might still be inadequate, but you could limit the number of spells by level so that a person with +3 wouldn't get all 3 of his spells until 3rd level (having 1 spell at 1st, 2 at 2nd and 3 at 3rd). Or you could do something like the pic, where spells are phased in more slowly according to your level and attribute bonus.

>>50913600
I really want to try this class now, https://goblinpunch.blogspot.co.nz/2015/08/new-class-really-good-dog.html

>Best Friend
>Pick a best friend. You both get +1 Defense and +1 Save when fighting beside each other. This designation is permanent (until story/DM say otherwise). If your Best Friend dies, you can pick a new one after playing 1 full session as a sad, sad dog.

>Best Friends Never Give Up!
>If your Best Friend is ever at 0 HP, you can lick their face to restore 1d6+1 HP. If your Best Friend is ever paralyzed, mind-controlled, raging, or otherwise out of control, you can lick/bite them (whichever is more appropriate) to give them a new save against the effect. Only works on things that allow saves in the first place.

>Dog Quest
>At a certain point, you will attract the attention of the Dog Barons. They will give you a quest to prove your doggishness. Example quests include killing a Cat Prince (rakshasa) who is hiding in town somewhere, digging into a forgotten barrow and returning with the femur from the wight king who was buried there, or rescuing some asshole prince who fell down a well in orcish territory. (This will probably involve the other PCs chasing after you shouting "Where are you going, boy? Come back!")

>Sniff the Air
>10 in-game minutes before the DM rolls for wandering monsters, he also rolls for wandering scents. The DM rolls on the wandering monster table and describes what one of the monsters smells like. If you've encountered that type of monster before, you can identify it. (Communicating the information, however, might be tricky.)

who's a good doggy you are yes you are you're a good doggy

>>50913109
Yes, I'd call it broken, in that it means that a Magic-User or Elf is shit on low levels compared to an Int 16 fighter. You'd legit have to play to level 3 to have any justification for playing those classes if you were one stat bracket lower.

>>50913971
Yours makes more sense, but it's still a little bit fucked, a potential screwjob.

>>50914005
That class is one of Arnold Punch's high water marks, and that's saying something.

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>>50914075
Yeah, that's a guy who gave us this:

>Bards are sorta lame. Yet Noise Marines are awesome. This is perhaps unfair, but it is true.

>I propose that bards are not a class on their own, but merely Thieves that have multiclassed with Some Sort of Undiscovered Wizard, which I will now attempt to elucidate, by inferring from the parts of the bard that are awesome.

https://goblinpunch.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/noise-wizards.html

>>50914116
Then there's his stuff on dinosaurs, who are in the past. Just... barely... in the past. Right behind you, you might say.

>>50909140
Move the dexterity AC bonus to wisdom.
Have intelligence give a bonus to a lot of skills.
Nothing wrong with charisma. Hirelings and reaction rolls are strong assets.

>>50913715 here, thanks guys.

>>50913825
Good idea, especially since some dungeons have restock tables. Where was that one nothing/trick/trap/monster table? Was it AD&D Appendix A?

>>50913873
Yeah those are some good points. I think the advantage of a megadungeon is that I can physically take the map from the player since their character no longer has it. Of course, they could always get the map back, but it's going to take some work, especially if monsters have made off with the previous party's stuff.

>>50913888
>On the other hand, sure, why not let them use Player Skill and justify it as following the signs (deliberate and accidental) left by the previous party? Player Skill's meant to be a thing.

That's a damn good suggestion, I hadn't thought of that. My worry was that players would do pretty much the opposite and decide, "Uh, we shouldn't go into the room to the north, there might be a brown pudding in there, or something..."

But of course adventurers would leave footsteps, opened doors, pulled levers, etc. That's a really sweet middle ground, thank you.

>>50913961
Definitely, if/when this happens I plan to cut ahead some significant amount of time. This is why I like the inheritance rules in B/X. If so-and-so hasn't returned to town within a few weeks, they're presumed dead, a portion of their stored loot goes to a friend/relative, and they now have an instant hook for exploring the same dungeon.

I suppose my other question is: what if this happens during a one-shot? It's possible everyone will die with the puzzle that killed them fresh in their minds. So another adventuring party comes along, perhaps some time later. Do you think it would be all right to just skip ahead and assume they discovered/solved the same traps/puzzles?

>>50914075
Punch is the only person in the OSR that can actually pull off the whole "irreverent weirdness" shtick without feeling like he's trying to hard or begging us to laugh at his gaming group's lame in-jokes. His more serious stuff, like Orc religion, is also gold.

>>50914248
>That's a damn good suggestion, I hadn't thought of that. My worry was that players would do pretty much the opposite and decide, "Uh, we shouldn't go into the room to the north, there might be a brown pudding in there, or something..."
That's player skill too, although a different sort, and about as easy to justify - "the tracks we're following didn't go that way, so whatever's in there is undisturbed. We can come back later, but let's follow the path we have *some* information about first."

>>50914248
>what if this happens during a one-shot?
To me, that just makes it even less of an issue. Yes, it's a bit unrealistic, but you can say they're a rival adventuring party that was just a day slower getting to the dungeon, and they'll have signs pointing to how not to solve the puzzle. Or maybe they're just better at traps. Who knows! Maybe the ghosts of the previous party are hanging around, or at least vague traces of their spirits.

>>50914212
>Move the dexterity AC bonus to wisdom.
I don't have an issue with the idea of this just like I don't have a problem with the idea of Intelligence being the basis of initiative, but the class implications are again troubling. Clerics become evasive motherfuckers while lightly-armored thieves are now more vulnerable.

>>50914278
>Abiosis: Just as slaad emerged from inanimate matter, so can they be returned to inanimate matter. This is accomplished by surrounding the slaad and shouting "You do not exist!" at it until it ceases to exist. Alternatively, you can dictate what object the slaad will become, such as "You are a chocolate chip cookie!" until it becomes a cookie. This takes a certain number of humans to attempt. (It only ever takes one dragon, because dragons are more real than the rest of the world, and move through it like a shark through the ocean.)

>dragons are more real than the rest of the world, and move through it like a shark through the ocean

Yes, good, I like this.

>>50914378
I like T&T more for its history than its gameplay, unfortunately. Some of the solos are fun, but the actual gameplay doesn't do it for me, and you really need a gm willing to play around with saving throws and let you use them to do stuff to avoid the combat system.

I do enjoy its irreverence, and hell, it was basically a game made up by someone who got his young hands on early D&D and decided "fuck that, these rules are boring, let's just play and have fun."

>>50914248
>I think the advantage of a megadungeon is that I can physically take the map from the player since their character no longer has it.
I'd recommend against that, personally - it's a bit punishing in an out-of-game way, and robs the player of interesting memorablia.

It also turns an out-of-game concept into something firmly rooted within the game, which can get a bit weird if none of the actual CHARACTERS are of the map-making type.

Also, well, it kind of takes away some of that "player skill" progression? Players aren't going to unlearn the properties of special monsters or tricks, and can just (accidentally or purposefully) memorize bits of the map either way. (Rob Kuntz famously never mapped at all!)

>>50914453
>It also turns an out-of-game concept into something firmly rooted within the game
That's the whole point of player mapping.

>>50914297
Then don't change it.

Is it true that chainmail never existed?

>>50915431
I mean the armor type. I keep seeing people say it wasn't a thing.

>>50914667
No, the whole point of player mapping is the players creating their own map of the dungeon. There's nothing inherent about the concept that requires one in-game PC to be actively mapping the entire time, since it's an entirely out-of-game thing with the PLAYER mapping.

If you want an in-game mapping system, you'll want Torchbearer.

>>50915431
It existed, but wasn't usually called "chainmail" I don't think?

You might be confusing it with one of the more bullshit Gygaxian armor categories, like "studded leather".

>>50915476
One player literally started a long argument on it, so I was wondering about it. He specifically called out chainmail.
May I ask what it was called?

>>50915476
3LBB's and B/X state that mapping means that a in-game character also goes through the motions.

>>50908847
Fucked up the previous thread line.
Actual previous thread.

>>50850638
>>50850638
>>50850638

>>50915534
Mail.
Hauberk.

>>50908847
I would use retloclones to run the old modules. Modern osr modules are too up their own asses for me.

Its like they remember expedition to barrier peaks and think:
>lets go beyond gonzo on every adventure!

Still havent found anything made these days on the level of b1-10 for "simple and fun".

>>50915534
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_(armour)

>>50910173
I dont get why acks isnt the standard retroclone. Is it because proficiencies are too much like feats?

>>50914453
>>50915476
I'd never do anything as asshole-tastic as actually destroying a player's map, but I'd definitely hide it from them if they lost it (or if a new party entered the dungeon) since it's a resource the characters no longer have access to.

Obviously they could typically get it back and I'd give it back to the mapper at the end of the campaign regardless, as a nice trophy.

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What systems for divvying up the loot are there?

Generally, players negotiate themselves, but a gang of graverobbers/archeologists in-game has to have some sort of charter for dealing with this problem as fast and fairly as possible.

First problem is that the stuff they find is non-standard. It has no set price, nor power rating, nor (most of the time) specific use (i.e. no paladin-only swords). It's hard to divide stuff into equal shares.

Second problem is that good stuff is random. Most of the time it just weird duds (potion that turns chicken into lizard, for example), sometimes it is useful (ring that grants water breathing at night), and only rarely there is one superpowered item (wand of fireballs). This means that letting one person choose first one time, and the let the other choose next time is not exactly fair.

I need ideas.

>>50915692
I know BFRPG has some old school modules that ape a few of the B series books but I'd like to find out if more existed.

>>50915692
Tomb of the Iron God, Death Frost Doom, Barrowmaze, Stonehell.

Not an alien or crashed spaceship in sight!

Until you get to Stonehell II, but even then I think I can (and should) ignore it, it feels like it's there just for the sake of gonzo.

>>50915822
That sounds more like a player problem then a DM problem. I doubt you'll find a 100% fair way to distribute all kinds of loot equally to the entire party + hirelings.

>>50915843
>Tomb of the Iron God, Death Frost Doom, Barrowmaze, Stonehell.
I remember barrowmaze but thanks for the other sugestions. Ill take a look.

>>50909140
If you use the Secondary Skills supplement, they become more valid.

>>50915476
>There's nothing inherent about the concept that requires one in-game PC to be actively mapping the entire time
There is. The rules actually state that the character who's making the map needs to have paper and ink and shit. If the character in question loses the map he's carrying, the physical real world map should also be taken away from the player. That's how the rules are.

That being said it's not a big deal if player mapping is allowed without the character actually doing ingame mapping. D&D is a gamist game and therefore sometimes quite metagamey. Player mapping is one of those things that should never be handwaved away because it's one of the most fundamental foundations of old school D&D.

>>50915822
>Generally, players negotiate themselves,
This is the way to go. The DM really shouldn't interfere, IMHO.

If they want to just give all the loot to the Cleric to powerlevel them to Cure Light Wounds, let them.

>>50910885
>>50910989
This. What's with the secrecy? this isn't reddit

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Doing more maps. Here's the first map from Netheril: Empire of Magic boxed set. Forgotten Realms at the height of Netheril's golden age.

Would the reverse of Sticks to Snakes be Snakes to Sticks? How would it work?

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>>50916138
Same map in present-day (c. DR 1360) for comparison purposes.

>>50916124
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it's because once that shit gets out into the open it gets removed for copyright violations and people don't get their copies.

>>50916163
Not all Clerical spells have a reverse, y'know.

Like, how would you reverse Speak With Animals?

>>50916113
Actually players can only decide how to distribute loot but not XP. No matter how the loot is distributed, the DM still handles XP distribution and the default is to distribute XP evenly among the party members.

Player's getting to decide how to distribute XP is a houserule.

>>50916215
>Like, how would you reverse Speak With Animals?
Instead of a human being able to speak with animals. An animal can now speak with humans.

>>50916234
That could be an interesting thing.

Players get a fair share of the loot, but they have to decide how to distribute XP, and there's a time limit.

>>50916234
>Player's getting to decide how to distribute XP is a houserule.
Depends on the edition. I don't remember if B/X even does that, to be honest?

My personal edition is OD&D, which is very much one where you only get XP for the treasure you actually get.

>>50916215
>Not all Clerical spells have a reverse, y'know.
Well, why not?
And also what this guy said: >>50916275

>>50916234
>>50916299
For example, AD&D is pretty explicit about the DM having zero input on how the treasure gets divided and that the experience from that goes to the person who actually gets the treasure - the DMG even contrasts it with XP from monsters:
>Division of Experience Points:
>How treasure is divided is actually in the realm of player decision. Experience points (x.p.) for slain monsters, however, is strictly your prerogative.
>It is suggested that you decide division of x.p. as follows[...]

>>50916395
Don't know about AD&D but I'm pretty sure all games prior to Advanced have the DM distribute XP.

>>50916338
>Well, why not?
Partly because of RAW stuffits, partly because of my personal preference for "lawful not!catholics cast ordinary spells, chaotic not!satanists cast reversed spells", and partly because some spells just get really damn weird once you do that.

Speak with Animals (and its companion, Speak with Plants) are just the beginning - how about Insect Plague, Quest, Commune, Find Traps, Dispel Evil, Earthquake, Wizardry, Silence 15' radius, Create Food...

>>50916215
Okay, but this is 4chan, it's hardly out in the open. The thread will 404 in 24 hours.

Does anyone have direct scans of 3LBB? I've only been able to find unreadable OCRs like in the trove. Unless paragraphs cutting off mid sentence twice a page is what people mean when they call them "disorganized"

>>50916138
>>50916187
This is neat. I don't even toriel but someone could make cool combined infographics of how the first map became the second.

>>50915822
I let the players sort that out. It creates some interparty conflict which can be cool, and gives me an idea of how to play their hirelings, moral, etc. based on how much loot they get.

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>>50915870
>>50916113
Thank you. Your advice was very helpful.


After some searching I found Dragon Kill Points. Needs some tweaking, but in case someone encounters similar problem (need to design company's charter), I recommend it.

>>50916507
Have you tried the new premium edition pdfs? They're pretty clean.

>>50916458
>all games prior to Advanced
What, OD&D and Holmes? OD&D is mostly silent on the matter (on account of being OD&D), beyond saying that obtaining treasure gets you XP.

Holmes, meanwhile, is explicit:
>Treasure is usually divided equally among members of the party and therefore the experience is also. If, for some reason, one character gets more of the loot, such as a thief stealing gems from the saddle bags on the way home, then he should get the additional experience points.

>>50916507
>Okay, but this is 4chan, it's hardly out in the open. The thread will 404 in 24 hours.
And stay around in the archives for a week.

>>50916528
It might be worth looking at the AD&D PHB - "APPENDIX V - SUGGESTED AGREEMENTS FOR DIVISION OF TREASURE" is about exactly what it sounds like.

>>50916476
>Insect Plague
Unsummons the plague (basically it becomes a magic duel)

>Quest
Stops a command.

>Commune
You force a god to ask you a question, and they have to listen to your answer.

>Find Traps
Hide traps

>Dispel Evil
Enforce evil, or dispel good

>Earthquake
Stabilization

>Wizardry
I don't remember this one.

>Silence 15' radius
Loudness 15' radius

>Create Food
Spoil food

>>50913628
Is Classic Traveller OSR?

>>50916626
Not D&D, so no.

>>50916626
Does it matter at all?

>>50916476
>Insect Plague
Exterminate Insects
>Quest
Already has a reverse version. Remove Quest
>Commune
Gain the ability to answer prayers of lesser members of your religion
>Find Traps
Conceal Traps
>Dispel Evil
Dispel Good
>Earthquake
Protects area from earthquakes and other geological dangers
>Wizardry
Cleric allows a MU to use a cleric only item
>Silence 15' radius
Noise 15' radius
>Create Food
Destroy/Rot Food

>>50916520
The arch–arcanist Karsus cast a 12th-level spell of his own devising that imbued him with the divine essence of the god Mystryl, resulting in the Weave breaking and the floating cities of Netheril crashing to the ground and massive untold destruction. The unnatural desert Anauroch was left in its wake.

>>50916626
Nope. They have their own general, though, so feel free to talk about it there.

Other old RPGs that are not OSR include, but are not limited to: GURPS, Champions, RuneQuest, RIFTS, and Cyberpunk 2020.

>>50916626
Are there PDFs of Classic Traveller? I really want to take a look at that game.

>>50916602
Yes, this what I was asking about.

Unfortunately, it's very simplistic: random rolls. Not an actual system.
>>50916626
If you are asking about discussing Traveller here - I don't see a problem. Most Traveller players hang out in this thread when their General is down.

And Classic is just Old-School. OSR implies new game that mimics old.

>>50916731
>Unfortunately, it's very simplistic: random rolls. Not an actual system.
It's just the players drawing lots for who gets to choose first, y'know. It's not like you need a more complicated system.

>>50916789
> It's not like you need a more complicated system.
It's not like I explicitly asked for more complicated system.

But it's reassuring to have people who know what I need better than I do.

>>50916626
not really*, but there's usually no problem with talking about it here if there isn't a dedicated Traveler thread up and it doesn't take over the thread

*it's definitely Old School, but OSR proper tends to be about D&D derived systems

>>50915476
>studded leather

Is brigantine, according to Gygax. Something happened and it wound up with two entries.
(In my world, studded leather is a specialty brigantine modified to sacrifice full coverage for weight, flexibility, and quiet movement, for use by spies and thieves)

>>50917131
Eh, personally I just toss it all and stick to Leather/Chain/Plate. It's less complicated that way. (And ACs actually mean something, which is nice.)

>>50916687

Traveller Archivist here. General's usually started on Friday, but it's not up 'cause I was out this weekend. Here's the link to the Master Archive:

https://mega.nz/#F!lM0SDILI!ji20XD0i5GTIUzke3iv07Q

Look in Classic/GDW - Core Books and check out the Supplements as well.

Classic has a kind of toolkit build-it-yourself ethos, and the rules are a little scattered. I kind of want to assemble a "Single Volume Edition" that puts all the best stuff together, but that's a big project. The Traveller Book or maybe Starter Traveller are the closest to that kind of thing GDW published. (Megatraveller was supposed to do that, but then they also folded all of Striker in and the game started to be super crunchy.)

>>50916578
>OD&D is mostly silent on the matter (on account of being OD&D), beyond saying that obtaining treasure gets you XP.
On that topic it's worth noting that there are plenty of stories from Gygax's game of people deliberately giving all the treasure to a new guy's character that that character could use to level with, so it's clear that "XP for treasure personally gained" is one of those things he thought was obvious and then had to clarify in AD&D. So though the rule isn't actually IN OD&D there's nevertheless a clear line from there through Holmes to AD&D.

>And stay around in the archives for a week.
I'm not sure I get this, though. How is the precious link information stored in these nebulous grog communities then that makes it harder for a googling rando (or actively searching agent of WotC or whatever the idea is) to find? I'm not trying to be that guy about it, I just don't see what the danger is.

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Is 3d6 down the line the best method for generating stats?

>>50918395
Maybe for a classless system

>>50918395

Yes. Or no. It depends, are we playing OD&D, Basic, or AD&D?

>>50918015
>On that topic it's worth noting that there are plenty of stories from Gygax's game of people deliberately giving all the treasure to a new guy's character that that character could use to level with
I like how MMO this is (power leveling!) but it doesn't really make much sense from a RP point of view, does it.

>>50918395
2d6+6 or bust.

>>50918400
Isn't it the other way around? Without a class, a PC rolling attributes with 3d6 down the line might become completely awful with no way to get better.

>>50918655
There's a ridiculously small chance to get even one negative modifier with that roll.

>>50918637
>it doesn't really make much sense from a RP point of view, does it.
Not really, no. It's like the exploration turns, one of the times where the "game" part of roleplaying game shines through. (And notably many early houserule/heartbreaker fiascos involved "more realistic" XP rules that made the game sad and unplayable)

>>50918637

It does if he's paying guild fees for somebody to train him?

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Any systems out there made for Quake-style Techno-Gothic fast-paced dungeon crawling?

>>50918742
I got it from Stormbringer, which is a pretty deadly game. Characters are going to die anyway and I never bought into that OSR "characters aren't heroes, they're ordinary" stuff. If they were really ordinary they'd be Normal Men.
>>50918833
Sign me the fuck up. I love Quake I's aesthetics, brown on brown palette and all.

>>50918879
Isn't Stormbringer BRP? I think that anon was talking about D&D stat generation.

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>>50918879

Me too, it's the most metal "theme" of any game I can think of. I'm trying to think about how to implement this type of gameplay into a tabletop RPG. Something that can emulate that feeling of pseudo-dungeon exploration mixed with frenetic shooting.

>>50918395
If stats don't matter much, like in OD&D? Sure, it works.

If stats matter a whole bunch, like in AD&D? Hell no, get something that actually lets people be Paladins someday. 4d6-drop-lowest-arrange is an alright compromise - the UA methods are a bit overkill. (The hardest-to-qualify-for classes can, if you use 3d6-down-the-line, be best quantified in PPM. I take that as an indication that something's wrong with the system.)

B/X I'm a bit more lukewarm about, but that's mostly just because I think the modifiers are too damn big in the first place. When the best guy is more than twice as good as the average guy, who in turn is roundabout thrice as good as the worst guy, you should probably consider how often you want the comparison to be relevant.
The minor stat-fixing it inherited from OD&D isn't quite good enough, I think.

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>>50918400
>>50918655
>>50919100

t. babies

>>50919099
Quake I is like Doom in that its shooting is very close combat focused. You can't snipe much in it and you have to balance the fact that your best damage dealing happens at close range, while most of your enemies are made to fight at melee range instead. You're fast, but not tough enough to survive big jams, so there's this weaving in and out combat dynamic while you balance both your range and the enemies' range.

>>50919253

Indeed. How exactly would you make this type of close combat dynamic work with an RPG system, though? Much of the excitement of these games came from being able to overcome the odds when you were severely outnumbered and outgunned by pure skill.
I don't think relegating that to simple die rolls would be a good idea; I gotta find a way of making player skill play a role during the minutia of combat encounters, instead of it being simply a numbers game.

>>50917239
A friend gifted me a hardcopy of Mongoose Traveller for christmas, is it essentially the same as CT?

>>50919461
You have DoomRL as an example of a RPG-like translation of a shooter where while RNG-based decisions exist there is a lot of player skill involved since not only can you use the environment to your advantage in terms of cover and maneuver, you can even sort of strafe. But that's a videogame, of course.

You could try something with grid and counters or miniatures, but that's not going to go well with theater of the mind style play. On the other hand, this is something you will want discrete measurements of distance and range instead of just playing it out by ear. I want to say you should look at Japanese RPGs and the way they use areas of engagement, which is halfway between grid action and freeforming it, but that's escaping the realm of OSR.

>>50919539

Nope, it's a different system. It has some similarities, and a few differences. It's a close cousin, though, and you can run a lot of Classic adventures with only a little trouble.
MGT1 core is very well-made, but be wary of the other Mongoose books, they are of highly variable quality, with most of the variations being some kind of "poorly written" or "poorly edited," because that's Mongoose for you.

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What encumbrance/carry rules do you use? Trying to find the right mark between abstracted enough to not waste time on bookkeeping but without losing any of the gameplay in resource management.

Attached is LotFP's.

>>50920165
Can I house rule it into CT easily?

>>50920404
Similar to something I read on Last Gasp. They have a piece of paper that represents their backpack, with a certain number of slots, and when they get an item I give them a card with the item on it. Bigger or heavier/more cumbersome items are bigger, so take up more slots.

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>>50920404
From Dragon Warriors.

>>50920549

I suppose you could. Armor is hit reduction in CT, and damage reduction in MGT, so you'd have to flip that around. Animal Encounter rules are totally different. Most of the rest is compatible enough that you probably wouldn't notice a difference running CT stuff in MGT.
This is all supposing it's MGT1. I haven't really gone over Mongoose's recently published second edition.

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>>50920404
My player's aren't really grokking the LotFP encumbrance system, so I'm thinking of trying out that "stones" system.

Also here's a more system-agnostic version of the LotFP system, although a couple things are changed.

>>50920572
Yeah, I'm thinking about trying something similar in LL: Backpacks have 6 interior loose slots and 2 secure exterior; belt bags have 2 loose slots ea or one secure slot, pouches have 4 depending on size. Loose is okay for most items but not fragile items like non leather flasks, potions, scrolls. Small items of the same kind (gems, candles, etc.) stack up to generally 5, 10 or 15 depending. Anything outside of available slots can be carried if reasonably described - e.g. rope tied to belt, torches bundled and strapped to backpack. Encumbrance isn't really considered, either you're reasonably burdened, or extra-burdened under abnormal circumstances (usually transporting something heavy like unconscious bodies or chests), or unburdened (shed of most equipment). But I'm not sure if it's not more important to maintain the resource management between multiple move rates rather than a plausible numbers of items held.

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>>50918395
>Is 3d6 down the line the best method for generating stats?
Nope.

>>50921056

>caring this much about stats

>in OSR

>>50921270
Attribute checks are important in OSR and depend on raw attributes. Also, I care a lot about everything.

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>>50921451
>Attribute checks are important in OSR

>tfw they're a houserule and you never use them

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>>50921480
Home play may have given them an outsize role, but it's not like they aren't mentioned in any rule book.

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>>50921480
TFW there are entire OSR systems based off them.

>>50921540

That's not even listed as like an optional rule, just a hypothetical "you might do this" paragraph.

>>50921813

Yeah, it's one of the reasons DESU sucks.

Any ideas/references for increasing the mundanity of adventure hooks? Archaeological surveys, artifact collecting for sale/museums, cartography, mining surveys, etc.

Always liked the framing of a frontier town cropping up near newly discovered megadungeons, filled with other enterprising adventurers, as well as scalpers, tycoons, snake oil salesman, etc., all come to get rich quick.

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>>50914667
>>50915476

Just hire a damn scribe to map the thing for you.

Can anyone recommend a good module that takes place mostly in a big mansion? Looking for inspiration.

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>>50922162

>>50922162
Tegel Manor is mostly respected, and it's certainly big. It's pretty much just a crawl, though, no real plot or anything.

>>50922206
Fine by me, I'd just be looking at the vague sorts of things included anyway, not lifting the whole thing.
Cheers m8s.

>>50922042
>Yeah, it's one of the reasons DESU sucks.
Heh.

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>>50922042
>DESU

>>50922162
The Cursed Chateau from LotFP.

>>50921056
I like the random but fair attributes table, it's what I personally use.

The resulting arrays are 90% more interesting than the mess of 6-13s that normal rolling gets.

Do you guys ever streamline equipment buying for starting a new game? As in, do away with 3d6x10 sp/gp and the process of buying and just say "You start with 2 weapons of choice, an armor type (unarmored through chain) and up to 7 items+STR modifier?

>>50920404
I use the "stone" system. You know, anything weighs 1 stone, bundles of things weigh 1 stone, armor weights 1 stone per ac

From acks, I think.

>>50922516
I have been thinking of those recently and posted some sample starting packages for S&W Complete classes, though the post slipped by some four threads ago. I still think that given the fragility of OSR PCs anything that makes chargen easier and faster is good.

>>50922278
I kind of want a Black Hack hack with a name that spells out DESU now.

>>50918395
For OD&D, yes.

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>>50922516
I use this

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>>50922622
tfw none of the thief options contain Thieves' Tools.

>>50921813
>the black hack
Don't mention that filthy modernist plot adventuring game.

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>>50922516

You get good weapons (d6) equal to your positive Strength modifier. You can start with a weapon regarldess, but it will either be low quality and break on an attack roll of 1+ every time you roll the upper half of its damage roll OR just start with a d4 small weapon.

You start with pieces of armor equal to your Con modifier.

You start with a number of tools equal to your Intelligence modifier, minus thief tools if you're a thief. Tools include things like chisels, ropes, ladders, ball bearings, etc.

You start with a number of Supplies equal to your Wisdom modifier. Such a day worth of rations, an extra couple torches or lantern, firewood, etc.

Finally, you can substitute any of the above equal to your Charisma modifier. All of these items are borrowed from friends and family and you need to either bring them back or pay a percentage of your haul when you return.

>>50922660
level 1 thieves aren't capable of using them properly yet anyway.
Lol 10-15% chance of doing anything.

>>50922708
Just don't use B/X's shitty Thief percentiles.

Is there another good post-apoc fantasy out there aside from ASE?

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>>50921056
Here's a version of the stat array table without the card thing.

>>50922450
Awesome! It makes me happy to know that somebody finds my stuff useful.

>>50908847
sup anons I have a question about 2e dnd. I was wondering if there were any other resources for martial arts other than The Complete Ninja. Any dragon articles or homebrew would be awesome as well.

>>50922162
It's DCC, so kinda hard to convert, but Bride of the Black Manse is f a n t a s t i c.

>>50923564
There might be some stuff in Complete Fighter and Oriental Adventures (though that's 1e). It's probably the same stuff that's in TCN, though.

>>50923879
yea checked both of those, and TCN is just the updated versions of everything in them. was hoping there was perhaps more out there or maybe some homebrew.

REMOVE HALFLING remove halfling you are worst hobbit. you are the hobbit idiot you are the hobbit smell. return to the shire.

>>50923983
Go away, Halflings are awesome!

>>50923564
Dragon articles: Issue(page)
139(58) D&D1
164(11) D&D1
122(46) D&D1
127(48) D&D1
136(66) D&D1
159(74) D&D1
164(14) D&D2
124(40) D&D1
156(50) D&D2

Oriental Adventures contains the same system as Ninja's Handbook. Oriental Adventures is 2E compatible, written by the same author with the same rules. Its rules became 2E. Many of these Dragon articles support and expand it.

>>50923983
AD&D 2E has gold because of Tupac. AD&D 2E gold and XP magic, Tupac rap magic. True AD&D.

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On the one hand, doubling experience every level means that characters who die will be able to catch up to the party.

On the other hand, it makes ugly level up charts and takes fucking forever to level.

Is there a superior alternative?

>>50924440
thnx anon. glad for the support. Ill look all these up in a sec. does anyone have a compiled list of all of the techniques at all?

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>>50924553
Wait I made this for you already.

goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2013/12/jack-vance-walks-into-pilates-studio.html
Has anyone ever used this magic system or similar stuff?
How well does it work in actual game?

>>50924665
you are awesome anon. Thank you for this. I've grown to love 2e over the years and this is one reason why.

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>>50924553
Just made it. Ready to enter into Excel. Might be more in Polyhedron Newszine though.

>>50924691

I think it's an interesting idea, but I dislike MP systems and find having so many points for so many spells is really negative.

His later posts on using magic dice is a far superior system, but even that is not one I'm using. That's ok though, Goblin Punch guy is pretty cool so he can do what he wants.

At what point in Dragon Magazine do they stop talking about AD&D and completely move over to AD&D2?

>>50922682
I like it more than I should.

>>50925089
158. But they're the same game anyway

>>50925089
Also they never stop talking about 1E since it informs everything and there wasn't even a Planescape until 1994. By 1995 they dropped 2E from the title of the game.

>>50925143
>>50925155
And stuff comes out for both for years. Those two 2E martial arts stickers are for 2E but they predate the ninja book. So what system are they for? Oriental Adventures, 1985.

>>50925168
Articles not stickers spellcheck fucking shits

>>50925143
>>50925155
Alright I see. I haven't really looked into the similarities and differences between AD&D and AD&D2 so I kind of just assumed that they were pretty different.

How do I run non-evil demons?

>>50925438
Play up the lawful/chaotic aspect. (If classic D&D I dont remember which did which)

http://www.lulu.com/shop/gary-gygax-and-dave-arneson/original-dungeons-dragons-digest/paperback/product-18866052.html

http://www.lulu.com/shop/gary-gygax/supplements-1-3-digest/paperback/product-18895851.html

>>50917214
Like many things in D&D, armour went to shit when people saw gaps and filled them. Leather/Chain/Plate is a fine system, and any other armour... just ask yourself if it's light, medium or heavy, then use the appropriate AC. You don't need lists including "studded leather with chain coif, hide cuirass and plate greaves that unfold into a glaive-guisarme."

>>50918395
Even OD&D doesn't use it pure, for good reason.

But it's OK in OD&D and Basic. Fuck off if you want to use it in AD&D or anything more modern though.

>>50919253
>Quake I is like Doom in that its shooting is very close combat focused. You can't snipe much in it
It's not a mistake that Quake and Doom both have a shotgun as the main basic weapon (doom pistol lol) rather than some sort of rifle that you'd get in modern shooters.

doom shotgun is still the best vidya shotty.

>>50920856
You seen Torchbearer? It has a wonderful inventory system.

It does assume you carry tools for skills and such freely, but keeps slots for the important stuff: food, light, empty sacks, treasure.

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>>50922577
Glorious recent OSR game/setting Nightmares Underneath (there's a free low-art version, a pay PDF, and the hardcopy is wonderful) has this - you can just roll 3d6x10 and buy stuff, or you can roll 3d6 on a table to get your starting gear. Certain classes may give you an extra piece or two if you do this. It's based on social class, which is an optional 3d6 roll (or you can just choose one).

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/196352/The-Nightmares-Underneath-Free-Edition

Into the Odd has a neat starting packages thing as well.

>>50925532
“Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...”
― Terry Pratchett

A-FUCKING-MEN

OSRG, what's your favorite adventure module that isn't well known?

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>>50925630
Depends on what you mean by "well-known". I consider B4 and Caverns of Thracia to be among the best, but I'd also consider them pretty famous.

PDF related is pretty damn comfy, though.

>>50925510
Holy shit, I didn't know this existed.

>>50925568
The Nightmares Underneath own. The short primer on the Kingdom of Dreams is a real good primer on running a Law focused society.

Also the Fighter is real good.

>>50925737
It may not for much longer. Do try not to advertise it too widely.

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>>50925588
>Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun
Except Carmack got the idea straight from the evil dead doing just that.

>>50925207
They never meant for there to be an edition schism. Things would be out of print and there were still books telling you to refer to Manual of the Planes or Oriental Adventures or Unearthed Arcana. Took a long time to improve everything. Some things never got carried over. Like the executioner's hood monster, a staple of the original monster book.

>>50925527
>Even OD&D doesn't use it pure, for good reason.
What do you mean?

>>50925831
But it's been there since 2012?

>>50925737
>>50926081
Read the thread, breh.

>>50926028
Probably the bit where you can trade the prime requisites you aren't using on a 2:1 or 3:1 basis to boost your prime requisite, if I'd have to guess.

Except all that does is create more of a sloped bell-curve for your experience bonus, since prime requisites don't really matter too much pre-Greyhawk.

Incidentally, this is where B/X and BECMI got their stat-trades from - although in that case it's a universal 2:1, and the stats actually matter a bit more.

>>50925510
Thanks a bunch dude. Ordered those and 7 Voyages of Zylarthen.

>>50925510
Fuck anon, top notch, thanks. Ordered the LBB digest, skipped the supplements. Should've checked for a Philotomy book to match, I guess; ah well.

>>50925520
It's funny. When 4e rolled around, I hated it for consolidating all armour into generic Light/Medium/Heavy types. Now I look at all these retro clones and wish they did the same thing.

>>50927262
>Now I look at all these retro clones and wish they did the same thing.
Yet another thing that distinguishes Moldvay Basic.

>>50927262
>>50927307
The leather, chain and plate trinity matters only if DEX doesn't give AC bonuses. I think OD&D is the only game where that's the case.

>>50927327
>The leather, chain and plate trinity matters only if DEX doesn't give AC bonuses.
How so?

>>50927355
Because if DEX bonuses break the AC = type of armor scheme anyway it doesn't matter if you also introduce additional armors to the game because they don't really mean much.

>>50925520
>plate greaves that unfold into a glaive-guisarme.
Stolen for Godbound, thanks.

>>50927395
I don't see it that way. Just having armor give you your AC is, of course, simpler, though shields and magical bonuses throw even that off, and I mainly don't like more armor categories because of they add unnecessary clutter, and it's hard to support that level of stratification. With just leather/mail/plate, the types become shorthand for light/medium/heavy. With the exception of the ahistorical studded leather, the other armor types usually end up getting passed over for better-protecting ones anyway. Why wear splint when you can wear plate?

Of course, I'm a fan of restricting some classes (like clerics and elves) to chain mail so that it sees more use, and I'm also a fan of converting armor to a damage-reducing apparatus, which, while instituting an extra step during combat (subtract your armor's DR from damage applied against you), also gies you complete purity in armor's effects (since nothing else affects the damage you take).

>>50927395
Speaking of DEX-to-AC, what the fuck is the deal with that? I remembered that it got introduced in Greyhawk alongside the Thief, and thought for a moment that it was to allow an unarmored skirmisher archetype, but then I remembered that in Greyhawk DEX-to-AC is a Fighter-exclusive thing.

What the fuck?

Seriously, though, removing the AC bonus from DEX (as well as the initiative bonus) leads to it being much less of a god-stat, solves the issues with unclear AC values, and makes it so that AC isn't a weird mixture between armor soak and dodging.

>>50927502
>though shields and magical bonuses throw even that off
Not really. Any number of AC from 2 to 9 corresponds to a distinct set of protective gear. In original D&D magical armor gives the modifier as a minus to the attacker so even they preserve the elegant nature of AC.

>>50927570
Admittedly, I use team-initiative, but I don't see Dex as anymore of a god-stat than Con or Str. Assuming a baseline of 50% to hit and to be hit, a +1 Dex bonus increases your durability relative to your opponent by 21% (.55^2 / .5^2). And that's only in circumstances where you can make missile attacks, and make them as effectively (and inflict as much damage with them) as melee attacks.

Assuming d8-damage weapons and a baseline of 50% to-hit, a +1 strength increases your durability relative to your opponent by 34.4% ((.55*5.5) / (.5*4.5)). This is much higher, but doesn't apply at all in circumstances where you aren't making melee attacks (compared to your Dex boost, which still half-applies if you can't make missile attacks).

Assuming d6 hit dice, a +1 Con increases your durability by 28.6% (4.5 / 3.5), and this increase doesn't depend on you being able to make a particular kind of attack.

What I will give you is that Dex tends to be the most-used stat for for attribute checks, and if it outshines the others, it's because of this. But I still don't see it as completely outshining the others.

>>50927502
>Of course, I'm a fan of restricting some classes (like clerics and elves) to chain mail so that it sees more use, and I'm also a fan of converting armor to a damage-reducing apparatus, which, while instituting an extra step during combat (subtract your armor's DR from damage applied against you), also gies you complete purity in armor's effects (since nothing else affects the damage you take).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSrTnWDTdwI

>>50927732
>In original D&D magical armor gives the modifier as a minus to the attacker so even they preserve the elegant nature of AC.
A) That's just a different way of doing the same thing. B) It's clumsy. C) You could do exactly the same thing with your Dexterity bonus.

>>50927844
Yes you could. No, it's not clumsy to apply a -1 modifier to an attack.

DEX-to-AC also breaks the OD&D math in half, but that's not much of an issue since Greyhawk already did that by letting magic shields stack with magic armor.

(Also, it's not much of an issue since most people use B/X and similar.)

>>50928025
>No, it's not clumsy to apply a -1 modifier to an attack.
Rather than just having it already factored in to the AC on your sheet? Sure it is.

How many retrainers/hirelings do you guys think a character should be able to recruit ?

>>50928051
It really isn't and it preserves the 2-9 AC.

>>50928051
Really, at some point you should just drop the backwards AC entirely and move over to ascending armor class.

There's not much point in descending armor class beyond ease of identification.

>>50928080
I'd use it, but mostly due to the fact of using a roll-under system. So you add your attack rating and the enemy AC, and you pretty much got your percentage.

>>50928107
But that's, what, two mathematical operations more than with d20+attack bonus vs. AC?

Isn't it just easier to write down the relevant line of the attack matrix?

>>50928078
>It really isn't and it preserves the 2-9 AC.
You need to remember to tell people to subtract 1 from their attack each time you're attacked, and then they have to subtract one. Otherwise, they have all their modifiers already tallied and don't need to hear anything from you at all, simply informing you of what AC they hit.

Alternately, if you prefer people to know what AC they're aiming for, you have to tell them your AC and your to-hit reduction rather than just telling them a single number. I'm sorry, but I consider this sort of unnecessary multiplication of tasks to be inexcusable.

>>50928182
>But that's, what, two mathematical operations more than with d20+attack bonus vs. AC?
I'm not the person you're responding to, but how is that more operations?

method 1: Add attack rating and enemy AC. Roll and compare to that number.

method 2: Roll and add your attack rating. Compare that to enemy AC.

In both cases, you're rolling once, adding once, and comparing once.

>>50928182
What >>50928345 said
It's literally the same, but with the added advantage of being able to see your chances on a glance.

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>>50928058
PC's can hire as many henchmen, porters, mercs, linkboys etc. as they're willing and able to pay. Actual die-hard retainers that will stick around when shit's it's worst are 1 per CHA bonus.

>>50928291
>You need to remember to tell people to subtract 1 from their attack each time you're attacked
That's the DM's job anyway. Players need to do no math at all during play. They just roll the dice when required and the DM takes care of handling all the modifiers to rolls.

>>50926081
yeah but it's not publicly searchable without the link, and the link's been hiding on some obscure grognard message boards' private areas for most of that time.

My advice is wait for a decent lulu coupon and pick up a couple of copies of the core and one of the supplements. It's stupidly cheap.

>>50927478
>greave-guisarme

>>50928047
>breaks ... OD&D ... Greyhawk already did that
yeah, there's a reason lbb is better.

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I know we normally talk about Pig Orc vs. Tolkien Orc, but what about size?
About human sized vs. A little taller and super wide?

>>50929168
>yeah, there's a reason lbb is better.
Preaching to the choir, anon.

>>50929197
Personally I go for human-sized.

>>50927502
>Armor as DR

It doesn't make sense for a lot of things.

>>50908847
Are there war-based OSR games?
Are there zombie-apocalypse-based OSR games?

>>50927844
It's not a different way of doing the same thing if you want to use the weapons vs. AC tables from Greyhawk. Having magical bonuses factor into AC breaks them, and causes the tables to be nonsensical like in AD&D, where having a shield or a certain Dex modifier can make it EASIER for you to get hit with some weapons arbitrarily.

>>50929806
There's Operation Whitebox but I can't tell you how it is.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/196284/OWB001-WWII-Operation-WhiteBox

>>50929806
stars without number has an entire supplement about being a poor fucking mercenary doing shit jobs for shit pay on shit planets.

I'm sure I've seen other war stuff.

and yes of course there are zombie games, I just ignore them because I don't like zombies so I don't have any names handy sorry mate

>>50915801
>I dont get why acks isnt the standard retroclone. Is it because proficiencies are too much like feats?

It's partly that - ACKS isn't the purest of retroclones and many find ascending AC and quasi-skills a modernisation too far.

But to a large degree, I think it's mostly that people tend to think of whatever OSR thing they played first as the "standard retroclone". So you end up with people seeing LotFP as the "standard" for that reason. Hell, I've seen people referring to SWN as a "standard retroclone".

All that said, if I was asked to run something old school tomorrow, I'd go for ACKS in a heartbeat.

Oh, and speaking of ACKS. Trove still doesn't have Lairs & Encounters, Auran Empire Primer, Sinister Stone of Sakkhara or Guns of War. Anyone got any of those?

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I ordered all official OD&D booklets recently through Lulu (pic related), now I'm looking for a nice box to put them in. I have little success in finding something similar to the original box, also I don't have a HQ scan of the cover art. Can anyone help me out?

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MPreg rape pig orcs, yes or no?

>>50930399
Nope. Keep your magical real away from the game.

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>>50930563

>>50930383
The heck? You can get those from lulu?

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>>50930809

>guy requests a beautiful orc escaping from slavers, and throttling them with their own chains

>this is the result

>>50930023
Is it only me that sees OSRIC as the grandfather of OSR ?

>>50930925

Nope, it did sorta kick the whole thing off.

>>50930925
OSRIC is AD&D, which isn't OSR imo

>>50930964
Your opinion is bad and wrong.

>>50930925
More like Castles & Crusades, although OSRIC is the first actual clone I think.

>>50928807
>That's the DM's job anyway

I don't like this meme. People doing the basic stuff themselves is godsend, not to mention it gives them an understanding of what is happening. Rules shouldn't get in the way but to be aware of them, especially something as fundamental as combat, is thoroughly good.

>>50931008
>Your opinion is bad
And I find yours bad :^)

>and wrong
OSR is something hard to define, people here already discusses this a lot, each person can define it differently

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>>50930399
I think it makes orcs more colorful and distinctive, so I'm generally supportive of the basic idea. Obviously a lot depends on your group and the kind of game you're running as to how appropriate it might be, but you could always minimize it and have it be a background sort of thing--something that establishes their repugnance, influences their their behavior on a strategic level, and emphasizes their repugnance, but which rarely, if ever, directly confronts the PCs. Or you could crank it up to 11 if you really want to make your players' skin crawl, and you're sure they're okay with it. I think Hackmaster's entry on orcs shows both some of the promise of the idea as well as some of its dangers. It's pretty interesting if you can avoid cutting yourself on the edge, some of which I think just comes from less than artful delivery (which could be an issue in how you play them in your game too).

Hackmaster, by the way, is an abomination of a game, so don't think I'm in any way endorsing it. Its Hacklopedia of Beasts makes for some interesting reading, however.

>>50930837
Well, it's my own private project: I uploaded the high quality contents and cover images myself.

>>50928107
>and you pretty much got your percentage
>>50928387
>added advantage of being able to see your chances on a glance.
What do you mean by this? You can calculate your chances of success at a glance with descending AC?

>>50931192
Orcs are disgusting, dirty rape-maggots who make almost nothing of their own.

Hobgoblins are evil slaving clans with Spartan-like regimentation.

Kobolds are craven but devious ambushers, and cruel torturers.

Gnolls are cruel bullies, but lack the imagination or patience of kobolds, and are undermined by their laziness.

Goblins cooperate with each other well, but not in the regimented manner of hobgoblins. They use swarm tactics and can be vicious in the attack, but will also break and run if the tide turns against them. They can build empires, but those tend to be little more than organized swarms.

>>50931311
>What do you mean by this? You can calculate your chances of success at a glance with descending AC?
The way he's doing it, yeah. Multiply your target number by 5 and that's your percentage chance of success. 10 is 50%. 15 is 75%, etc. If you're familiar with the d20, it becomes instinctive. Tell me a number and I could instantly tell you the percentage without having to go through the math.

>>50930383

I have HQ covers here... https://mega.nz/#F!1hJRRIYS!x-JEItldMJOy_7_Z3F7LoQ
Located in /Custom Covers/Original Dungeons & Dragons - Print on Parchment

These are on white backgrounds so that they can be printed on parchment colored or silver paper.

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>>50930383
And an example of my Box...

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>>50931557

>>50931557
>actual wooden box
That is... amazing! Is it a cigar box or something? Birlliant! Thanks for the link to the HQ covers, by the way!

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>>50931580

>>50931603

Book style box from Michaels Craft store.

>>50931610
Oh man, you are really outclassing my cheap Lulu prints... Did you print them yourself?

>>50930383
There's info on replicating the whitebox here, discussion on boxes starts 2/3 down with thegreyelf's post:
http://odd74.proboards.com/thread/522/assembling-little-brown-books

Could you upload the 3LBB pdf's you used? The trove's are poorly OCR'd.

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>>50921056
>>50918395
>>50921270
>>50921451

>is rolling 3d6 down the line he best method for stats?

Yes, but only if your players are normies who don't want to go through complicated rituals just to make their first character.

Plus you need to be playing odnd or a retroclone where stats barely matter. In my system, you add your entire con to hitpoints (instead of getting a scaling bonus per level) strength adds 1-3 damage but no pluses to hit.

Only mages care about iq, thieves about dex, and clerics about wisdom. EVERYONE needs cha, because I play a game where henchmen are generally needed.

I have tested the deck of cards, and while it gives fair results, they're super boring. You get a looooot of 10-14s. I will never use the card draw method in an actual game, because it totally destroys the fantasy flavour, and isn't even easy to use.

Random fair arrays I would consider, if a player specifically asked for them.

In my basic rules, though, I allow players to roll 3d6 for each stat. Then, if they don't have a single stat over 10, I randomly double one stat until they have at least one double digits.

This results in significantly more 18s on characters with otherwise low stats, which I like from a roleplaying perspective.

Then, after stats are satisfactory, I allow "advanced" players to switch two stats, once only, to better conform to the type of character they want to play.

If a player wants to do something different, I'm open to it, but I'm careful about super-characters.


Ask me about classes and experience progresssion.

>>50928058
His level + charisma modifier. With some exceptions depending on class.

>>50931851
>Ask me about classes and experience progresssion.

So how do you do those?

>>50931805
Great, thanks for the link. I'm uploading all pdfs I used and will pass you the link as soon as the upload has finished

>>50931922
and... there we are:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/jzudbtdwnw64nkk/OD%26D.zip

>>50924535
characters with experience in multiples of 1260.

This is so you can divide it fairly between up to 10 characters.

>>50931805
What you want is in my TSR Trove...

bit<dot>do/TSRTrove

The files are in the Original Edition folder.
White box, Supplements 1-4 and Swords & Spells, oh and Chainmail.

These have all been redone by me to match the Premium Edition formatting, thus are not scans, but actual OEFs. The wording in the white box matches the 6th print version.

But I also do have the Premium Editions in their own folder.

>>50924535
>and takes fucking forever to level.
Only if you don't make treasure in lower (dungeon) levels more worth it as well. And the danger that much more dangerous, I suppose.

There's been some analysis that shows that a party of four in OD&D will level up roughly once per 50 level-appropriate dungeon rooms, for instance. The XP gain is somewhat stable throughout.

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>>50928058
Hirelings: as many as you pay. They have a loyalty roll and will generally help you in non-extreme circumstances as long as you treat them well.

Henchmen: based on cha
3-8: 1
9-12: 2
13-15: 3
16-17: 4
18: 5

>>50925510
well if those are still up in a couple days will have to buy them for sure, wish they had included Chainmail in one of those volumes though

>>50925568
>>50925801
The Nightmares Underneath is full of good stuff

>>50927202
>Should've checked for a Philotomy book to match
doesn't appear to be a version available on Lulu, which is weird, I could have sworn I saw a version on there before

>>50927262
there's a lot of things in 4E that I wish OSR games would use, main reason I don't run 4E is because of how much of a time sink it is to prep and run

>>50931311
Yeah, if it's roll-under, you basically know (for example) that you need to hit 17 or lower to hit, it's basically a 17-in-20 chance, or rather 85%
You can do the same if you are trying to hit ascending AC, but it gets a bit messier if you want the exact odds of hitting.

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>>50930023
They're all standard retroclones, because in 1983, people didn't give a fuck and made up whatever rules they needed.

You're playing a standard retroclone if your dm knows how to use the rules and allow for situations which don't come up in the rules.

I've played 3.5 campaigns like this, if the dm's good.

>>50931640
You can buy original good quality odnd for like $300.

for comparison, at $50 a book, 5e costs $200 for the 4 current books, assuming you got 'em when they came out.

>>50932642
>there's a lot of things in 4E that I wish OSR games would use
Like...

>>50932733
Apples and Oranges comparison, as ODnD has nowhere near the same amount of content as 5e,

>>50929197
I'm a fan of their size being variable depending on age and certain other factors(ranging from about 5'5" at the lowest, to just under 8' for the largest), which is something I tend to apply to most "Monstrous" Humanoids

>>50915801
>I dont get why acks isnt the standard retroclone. Is it because proficiencies are too much like feats?
probably, even though I'm fine with them for the most part(but then I actually like having some character building aspects in my OSR, helps add variety to characters on the mechanical side of things, especially for non-magic using ones)

>>50930023
>All that said, if I was asked to run something old school tomorrow, I'd go for ACKS in a heartbeat.
yeah ACKS has been one of my standby choices for OSR system for a long time, although there are a couple other systems that are also possible choices

>>50930383
I am so jealous of you right now, and as for boxes, I've seen some people have good success modifying the box the 5e Starter Set comes in for such purposes(if you don't mind the box not being wood), as that set is both pretty cheap and the box is of decent durability for it's price

>>50930399
not a fan of having Monstrous Humanoids propogate through or be well known for committing rape, feels edgy for the sake of edge

>>50930925
I think Mazes & Minotaurs predates OSRIC by a couple years, so I think it's a better candidate

>>50931534
>>50931557
>>50931580
>>50931610
neat, and also kinda jealous

>>50931610
>>50931628
You're missing some of my works.

Monstrous Collection 2.1 to 2.2 Update - All Polyhedron

https://www.sendspace.com/file/vpru8w

TSR 1162X - The Complete Everwinking Eye v1.0

https://www.sendspace.com/file/f33fn1