Warhammer Fantasy General

Is Slaanesh or Tzeentch in control of dreams and nightmares? Moon icons always made me think Tzeentch, but then I read on 1d4 that Slaanesh makes Daemons from his nightmares.

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>>50900836
I like the idea of Karl-Franz as a kind of Fisher King-type character. Like King Theoden, a clever and courageous man, held back by sickness and corrupt advisors put in place by the machinations of chaos.
Keep Deathclaw, but put him in the Altdorf Zoo, where he mauls anyone who comes near that isn't Karl-Franz. And the Emperor never comes, because he's practically house-bound, so Deathclaw just rots away as a wild animal in a cage that's too small.

Maybe that's a little too close to the Emperor in 40k. Call it a parallel.

>>50902500
Yes.

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>>50902504
Too much for me. I'd see that as more of an Elector Count fallen from youthful greatness and refusing to let go.

I'd see Karl as a man who will literally never come home. He and Deathclaw will die of exhaustion in an honorless death, never getting any peace or rest.

So a dialed-up Barbarossa.

>>50902500
Dreams looks more of a "shared" thing

>>50888632

'Where's the next cottage?'

'Another league and a half that way.' Rolf answered, pointing in a westerly direction. Vaclav noted that though Rolf kept control of his voice, his hand was shaking. And he wouldn't look directly towards the cottage; Vaclav knew all too well what it felt like to find a familiar place distorted into a twisted parody of itself by the cruelty of war. Until you saw it for yourself, it never seemed real; only then was the beauty of memory replaced by the ashes of reality.

The shock hadn't broken Rolf, though; rather, there was a hardness to his voice. The sight of the burning homestead had tempered him like steel. He continued: 'And beyond that, past Zahnberg Creek, the village of Geigersdorf.' Vaclav knew it, a small village with maybe two hundred people living in it. The beastmen warparty would annihilate it.

Unless they were stopped.

Sargeant Pavel came over, and saluted.

'We've searched thoroughly sir.' He reported. 'There are no survivors, and none of beastmen around either.' Vaclav turned to Rolf and asked.

'Are there any storage cellars where someone might have hidden?

'Yes sir, over there.' Rolf pointed. 'Two grain cellars.' But Pavel shook his head.

'We found them.' he said curtly. 'Both broken open, and all the food looted. The beastmen didn't leave anything; takes a very good sense of smell to detect grain sacks in a cellar buried under half a foot of snow.'

'I'm counting on it.' said Vaclav said. 'Gather the men, we're heading west.' Pavel saluted, and went to shout his men into line; they had allowed themselves to become too spread out, as they picked over the debris in horrified silence.

Boris came over, flanked by two others of the old guard - Sir Friedrich Nagelstein and Sir Helmut von Stolzhaften, who'd both been fighting beastmen since Vaclav was in his crib. If you didn't know them, from the expressions on their faces it would be easy enough to believe that their hair had just turned white.

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Hey everyone. So what do you guys use in terms of a carrying tray for your army? I have about 2k of Bretonnia, Lots of peasants and archers and I'm looking for a way to carry the army around on a flat platform like one big movement tray. RIght now I'm literally using a flat baking pan. Any suggestions?

>>50902784

'Bad business.' grunted Boris. 'It's been a long time since beastmen have come so far out of the wilds. Must be ten years since we saw a family slaughtered like this.'

'Thank Shallya's mercy that's its been so long.' said Helmut von Stolzhaften. 'I remember back in the days of Hrogmot's warherd. They burned half a dozen villages on their way past, and half a dozen more in the sixth months it took us to hunt down the survivors after we broke them at the battle of the Bek.' Helmut shook his head. Ostermark had lost a lot of sons that day, alongside Ostland and Hochland; the combined force had taken two days of pitched battle to rout the rampaging beastherd. He continued gravely: 'Worse than orks for savagery they are. Praise Ulric that the news came through to us so quickly on a night like this - we have to catch the chaos scum as soon as possible, or we'll be neck deep in filth and fighting for months to keep our heads above the mire. Show weakness just once and they'll all know. Trust me.' His words echoed the advice Vaclav's father had given to him many years ago.

Manfred von Schwarzfeld joined them. His face was red and his clothes ashen; he looked like he'd been searching through the still burning house.

'The warband that did this was large. You can see that just from a glance.' he commented.

'We can't tell from these tracks how many there were.' Vaclav countered. 'They're too muddled.'

'True. But there are more then us. Many more.'

'Yes.' Vaclav said calmly.

'I'm with you to the end, my lord.' said Rolf. Boris clapped him on the shoulder approvingly,

'That's the spirit boy.' The old knight turned to Vaclav. 'I don't know about the rest of us, but he speaks for me as well if you hadn't already guessed.'

'None of us want to turn back and leave the warparty loose.' said Manfred von Schwarzfeld. 'But courage and determination can't double the size of our force.'

>>50902821

'Oh, what of the numbers man?' said Friedrich Nagelstein. 'I've fought against beastmen before, and I've been outnumbered before. We need to press on and catch them before they get away.'

In all the stories Vaclav had heard, he didn't remember any battles of his father's time that had taken place at night, in the forest, without horses. Manfred looked as if the same thought had crossed his mind too, but he ignored Nagelstein and merely commented.

'My lord, if you gave the order to return to the castle I would defend you against any who'd question it.' Unspoken were the words: it would be reckless to head on now.

'I know,' Vaclav said firmly, 'but we're going on nevertheless. Don't worry, I don't plan to simply walk into a pitched battle with the beasts - I ordered the food from the feast brought with us for a reason. With any luck, there will be a chance to use it to even the odds in our favour. If not, if we have no opportunity to do anything but give them more manflesh, I'll turn us back. Our lives aside, handing them another victory would only encourage them further.' Both Boris and Helmut von Stolzhaften nodded in agreement at this. Vaclav continued: 'They've turned north-west, further into the forest, but I'll bet they don't head back into the deep forest. Not yet. They're still hungry. That means we have a chance to get ahead of them, and catch them as they swing back towards the forest's border.'

'Still, it's a large forest.' said Manfred. 'If we're not following their trail it'll be hard to find them again.'

'We not going to find them.' said Vaclav simply. 'They're going to find us.'


* * *


I'll be back shortly

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Are there non-evil angelic beings in Fantasy?

>>50902500
Dreams are Morr and Lileath. Slaanesh gets xir hand in. Tzeentch probably does too.

>>50903051
Most of the gods have divine servants of some kind. Ulric had some that were like ice wolves, the elf gods had some, and the nehekaran god Ptra had straight up angels that ended up being corrupted by nagash. Warhammer has tons of magic creatures/spirits/daemons that aren't aligned to one of the big 4 chaos gods. Dryads, djinn, naiads and other elemental are all examples of this

>>50903308
Cool, thanks!

>>50902867

The company went another two miles before Vaclav called a halt. They were well within the border of the forest, and all around them the only thing that could be seen were trees in all directions. It looked much the same as any other part of the forest, and there seemed to be no reason for Vaclav to choose this place over any other.

But here was where he decided to place his ambush.

Not because of the ground, although the tree cover made for good concealment. The wind had turned, and now instead of whipping against their faces was heading straight into the forest. Carrying their scents along with it. That wasn't enough though - he wanted to really catch the beastmen's attention. He wanted something that would draw them in, something so tempting that they wouldn't stop to think.

He grabbed a sack from one of the armsmen. Into it had hurriedly been swept food from the feast: a half-eaten ham, venison, an entire partridge as yet untouched. Even some knives and a candlestick, candles still in it.

'Build a fire.' Vaclav called. 'Pile it high, make sure it can be seen for miles around.' No sense in just relying on scent, although he doubted the light would get far through the densely packed trees. The men started bringing their sacks forward and dumping them on the ground. 'Spread the food out. Come on, this is a feast, make it look like it.' Other men brought their sacks forwards, and began tipping out their riches onto the snow. Roast pork, glazed in honey. Beef, marinaded in specially brewed beer. Golden-crusted pies which contained hare or pheasant. Sausages packed with every kind of meat and every kind of herb. And skins of wine, mead and beer. All that and more: the castle storehouses had been filling for months in preparation for the winter feast. Rolf helped gather it all, and stack it into heaps as men brought kindling and branches for the bonfire.

>>50903696

'We're going to show the beastmen our hospitality tonight.' Vaclav called to his men. 'Let's have a toast.' He raised a wineskin, took a swig for good luck, and then splashed most of it against a nearby tree trunk. The others followed his example, without needing him to explain, spreading the scent of alcohol over every tree in the area. 'And bring some logs to sit on.' he added. 'Hurry, our guests will be here soon, Ulric willing.'

'My lord.' said a respectful voice by his shoulder. Manfred von Schwarzfeld could move damn quietly when he wanted to. Always so calm, always so quiet. That was why Vaclav needed him, to be the level head when others counselled from their hearts. That was why he wanted the young knight leading the ambush while Vaclav played bait.

'You're about to ask for a seat by the fire, aren't you?'

'You know me too well, my lord. Just as I know you.' Vaclav could feel his wry smile, even if he couldn't see it in the darkness. 'It's a fine trap, and the beastmen will surely be tempted. But I doubt even they'd fail to question why a feast would be laid out with no one there to eat it. They'll sniff the man-scent in the air and wonder why there's no one about. And I doubt that thought hadn't occurred to you too.'

'It's my feast, is it not? As host, surely I'm entitled to the seat of honour.' Vaclav posited.

'Entitled, yes. But you know that whoever takes the role of bait will probably go down before anyone can come to his aid. The men aren't showing it, but they're scared - even in an ambush, the odds our odds won't be strong. What chance will we have if our leader falls in the first few seconds of the fight?'

'If we're talking about men we can't afford to sacrifice, then it'd hardly be sensible for me to let my best swordsman sit out here, would it?' Vaclav countered. 'Either way, it's my damnfool plan, and I'll not send another man out their to die in my place.'

>>50903716

'It should be me.' Rolf interrupted. 'I know how to fight, and I'm ready to fight - but I know I can't do much against a Gor, or even a Bray. At least this way I can make myself useful. I'm small, and I can run fast - maybe they'll just ignore me when the fighting starts.' He really was honestly willing to do it, Vaclav realised. Not because he childishly thought it was a chance for glory, but because he felt it was his duty. Vaclav certainly wasn't going to let Rolf take his place, though. He was about to firmly veto this idea when Sir Boris joined the fray.

'Age before beauty, lad. You've all got many more years ahead of you than I have. Besides, I'm old and weary - you wouldn't begrudge me a chance to warm my cold bones by the fire, would you? And if the object is to get the fiends' attention, then surely it should be the loudest, most conspicuous man among us who's sitting out here.'

'He has us there.' laughed Vaclav, despite himself. 'We couldn't ask for a more visible decoy. But no, old friend, I couldn't ask that of you.'

'Who's asking? I'm volunteering - and I think you know well enough that if you do insist on sitting out there you'll have to tie me to a tree to stop me from sitting with you. Come on, Vaclav. Let someone else shoulder the burden for once - there's plenty willing to.' That got through to Vaclav, and he remembered the moment in the courtyard. 'You take your proper place, and I'll take mine. I'm an old man, and I don't plan to end my days too fat to sit on a horse and too feeble to hold a sword.'

'There's no reason I can't sit /with/ him.' suggested Manfred. 'With two of us we might even have a chance of surviving. As you say, I'm the best swordsman you have.'

As a long time Bretonnian (since 3rd edition) player this is the best thing I have heard in a long time! I'm all in lads!

>>50903757

'He said you're our best swordman, did he?' Boris grunted. 'Go ahead, Vaclav, let our master fencer join me. I'll be glad of his company. Never mind dying - I plan to show him what an old man can do with a blade, and I don't want him to say that I got a headstart when it comes time to count up the trophies.'

He could not bear every burden himself. Boris was right. Manfred was right. If they were all in this together - and they were - it meant letting them take this choice.

'Very well.' said Vaclav grimly, grudgingly. They all knew what the two men were volunteering for. Boris hid it under bluff and bluster, Manfred's steely professionalism wouldn't allow him to break his calm exterior no matter what, but they'd just taken the most dangerous position in an already deadly fight. Vaclav said quietly, 'I won't snap the trap shut until we have them. You may be on your own out there for a while.' The best way to botch an ambush was for a panicky commander to spring the trap too early, but sometimes doing it properly meant leaving your bait swinging in the wind.

Both knights nodded in understanding.

'Don't worry about us.' laughed Boris. 'After all, we're the ones with a fire to keep us warm.' The bonfire was blazing away now. The honey-glazed meat glinted in the firelight. 'And all the food.' he added with a grin.

'Good luck.' said Vaclav, with feeling.

Damn it, I don't have time to finish this tonight. Ironically, Christmas is getting the way of me finishing my Christmas story. Oh well - tomorrow. Hopefully.

>>50902810
That works pretty well - you could add magnets to the bases to secure them better.

>>50903767
The story or the TMS minis?

https://www.amazon.com/Warhammer-Citadel-Miniatures-Catalog-Bretonnia/dp/B005Q3R4GO/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1482892910&sr=8-9&keywords=Bretonnia

Haha, what the hell??! The price....I know Brets are discontinued...but..what the ever lady loving fuck??

hi guys, i am looking to buy some chaos dwarves form russian alternative, besides the usual difference, do you have any info on why i should buy them resin or metal? Thanks

>>50903782
I look forward to the conclusion

If warp stone is all 8 winds mashed together and solidified, would it be possible to do the same to the individual winds of magic? And if so, would it be possible to create a "pure" form of warp stone, like solid high magic?

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Anyone remember this guy?

I always see people talk about how large the empire is and how the old world is compared to Europe. Does anyone have a source for this/easy size comparisons? Like if the empire isn't germany sized, how big is it?

>>50906998
That's some nice art. I love the image of a background forest of pikes.

I read somewhere that Tzeentchian Warriors favor halberds and polearms. Is there any truth to that?

>>50907008
Size estimations are based mostly on the highly unreliable maps and some random one-off comments, I think. It's worth noting that some characteristics of the Old World really are super extreme; the River Reik for example, and the mountain ranges.

I think the estimate given most credence puts the planet at 1.2-1.5x the size of Earth.

>>50906998
Got reminded about him the other thread. Wind of Life is an interesting touch.

>>50906241
Jesus you spend three weeks asking if you should get the chaos dwarfs, now you want to know how to get the best knockoffs

>>50907751
how wide is the river reik?

>>50906241
Metal is metal. Its durable.
Resin can have casting problems but holds detail better, and is usually cheaper.

>>50903051
>Implying Azazel is evil

>>50902810
A baking pan works well. A lot of the guys at the flgs I go to use the big toolboxes with the pull out trays and have everything magnetized on there. It works great for storage and transportation.

>>50902500
I always imagined dreams as being partway to the warp either way. Slaanesh is more of a visceral dreams type, whether dreams or night terrors. Tzeentch is prophetic visions and whatnot.

>>50903051
Yes, in a sense. Demons are just minor aspects of Chaos. Every god or goddess can have some form of servant, created roughly from thesame warpstuff that created themselves, or simply shards of themselves. There are also evidently largely benevolent beings in the warp, such as the gods, so there could even be unaligned "demons" of good. Theoretically, at least.

>>50908109
Wide enough and deep enough to sail full-sized 16th century galleons down with room to spare for another to pass.

>>50902448
So, question: How does the Dreaded 13th spell work in canon, and fluff wise? On the table top, I know it basically just transforms the unit into Skaven Slaves under your control; but lore wise, that brings up some questions in a ongoing fluffy character campaign.

For example, the biggest, and most important, is the spell permanent? The easiest conclusion of the spell, is that it fades after the battle, and that the former skaven either flee, get captured, or are killed. That still poses some questions, like what happens to their mounts, or their armor, etc. But, assuming that the spell is permanent, what than? Is it just a full mind wipe, or do they still remember themselves? I can only imagine how shitty it would be if a elf got transformed into a shitty skaven, and had to live with that fact.

Or, am I just over thinking this, and when it says Skaven Slaves, it means that it just bends the mind of the unit to the Skaven, making them LITTERAL Skaven Slaves?

I ask, because I am going to be joining a campaign which features a notorious Skaven Player who loves spamming magic, and is well known for using the 13th dreaded spell, and I dont want my Special Snowflake Vampire count getting transformed.

>>50908496
I would assume that it turns them into slaves of the skaven, not actually skaven who are slaves.

>>50908257
>Metal is metal. Its durable.

Mercury is a metal.

>>50906998
Looks like a chaos elf.

I love it. They are sorely missing in the setting.

>>50904800

Minis

>>50908109
Huge. Deep water ships can sail all the way to altdorf, and the river is miles across at places. It's basically Amazonian in size, but even deeper

>>50908643
Who the fuck casts mercury miniatures?

>>50910655
Nobody. You have missed his joke, but don't worry- it wasn't worth it.

>>50908433
>>50909425
'deep water' ships of the 16th century were hardly very big by today's standards, or even by the standards of the golden age of sail. It would be possible to sail up that far even if the Reik just more or less matched the Rhine (on which it is clearly based)

>>50907835
i have no idea what you are talking about, you are confusing me with soemone else
>>50908257
>besides the usual difference
well thank you anyway

>>50902448
So what material is the Kingdom of Equitania minis made out of?

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>>50911573
>Gee Duubs tears

>>50911629
So resin then?

>>50911726
I don't really know, sorry.

I just wanted to make the joke.

But maybe lookup review of previous kickstarts? They are probably sticking to their methods.

>>50908655
Gav called, said yer a faget

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okay lmao which one of you /b/tards did this

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>>50912108
Certainly not me.

>>50912108
>>>/vg/163929482/

How do you tell Knights-Errant from Knights of the Realm?

>>50912154
epik.

>>50912253
Knight Errants had less crunk helmets.

>>50912274
>>50912253
Behavior is one way, too. Knight-errants are going to be very rowdy and charge-happy. They have something to prove, after all.

Knights of the Realm will also be wearing multiple coats of arms; theirs and their family or lord's.

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>>50912274
>>50912253
They have more loot on them.

>>50912253
Knight Errants scream in a higher pitch

Looks like GW just released the 2016 best sellers list.

Oh wow, who'd have thunk its all the most expensive models? People sure love them an Archaon on Derpdragon and Alarielle on Dungbeetle!

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>>50910687
This is warhammer we're talking about though, they have ships that are way over the top massive in addition to more normal ones. The reik is based on the Rhine, but much larger according to he sources that actually describe its size

>>50913396
I actually liked the Ariella mini. The Archaon mini is trash, though.

>>50913482
The beetle is good, she's good, they just don't go together and its a bad version of Alarielle herself. It makes a better Ariel.

>>50913396
you might be right in that they are trying to push that stuff, but you have t remmber people reallyu love those shitty overcomplex giant clusterfucks for whatever reason.

>>50913565
Eh, I didn't like her old mini. It looked pretty crap to me.

>>50913601
Old or really old?

I love her first, like the second, and don't consider the third to be Alarielle at all. Its their strange Ariel/Alarielle SU fusion shit. Its a decent Wood Elf, but Alarielle will always be a High Elf to me.

>>50913565
It's not a warhammer fantasy model though, AoS alarielle changed a lot from warhammer alarielle. plus the form she's in now is a seasonal aspect of war, she usually looks closer to warhammer alarielle in her other forms.

Do agree that she doesn't really match with the beetle though, she'd look better on foot or flying. Unfortunately gw insists that every hero in AoS rides some fuckheug realm monster so they can add more shit to their already overdone models and charge you for it

>>50913592
Yeah, but cheap r&f boxes are where you start an army.

You will always sell more of those than the centerpiece just by the nature of how building an army works.

>>50913673
I didn't care for the one from 8'th edition. She had this weird looking helmet crown that looked like rubbish and her staff looked way too thick for her proportions.

>>50913786
Yeah, she had the features of early metal Citadel minis but in resin.

It looked strange.

>>50913826
The best sculpt was on her body and feet, the head and staff were kind of fucked up.

But sticking another staff and head on were easy fixes. Nothing can make the new one into a High Elf. She's like a Lizardmen Elf.

>>50913900
At least the new one is not as terrible looking as Archaon and Nagash.

>>50911990
wut

>>50913693
your point makes a lot of sense, but centre pieces are so important in AoS i heard people saying (i think about orc savages but i am not sure) that x faction was not bad, but lacked a centre piece, if this is true( and i am not sure it is), people like centre pice big stuff and actually need them to make a good army.Also consider these are new. You can buy your rank and file second hand, but it's very hard to find these ones.

>>50914121
Nagash is okay, the problem is his stupid pope hat. Its an interesting idea to have a giant character who isn't on a mount. He's just cheesy as hell.

Then again, I love swirling ghosts so I may be biased.

>>50913481
People compare The Empire to Germany, but size-wise, The Empire is actually much closer to being the size of the entire holy roman empire. So it throws people and scales off a lot. The Reik is actually very wide.

>>50914177
Ah, but the precious Sigmarines and Khorne whatevers are new. The Khornes especially are made to go with Archaos there.

GW just shoved the most expensive models as "best sellers" like they do every time.
Like their holiday gift ideas for non-gamers has the $1000 Khorne castle at the top.

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>Buying Dwarf army
>Accidently buy 43 miners
>mfw

>>50902448
So, as a guy who just started wargaming,can some one describe to me what the gameplay of WHFB is like? I just bought a box of Warriors of Chaos, and they came with square bases, and I am planning on fleshing it out to a full force. However, I want to know what the gameplay of what WHFB and AoS is like before I commit to one type of base, or the other.

>>50913481
The ship in that picture doesn't seem out of placed for a 16th century galleon. If we take the Mary Rose (flagship of King Henry VIII) as an example, it would only displace around 700 tons. There are much bigger ships going up and down the Rhine today.

>>50914286
WFB is a complex wargame based on historical wargames of the 1970's that evolved until literally every other wargame is based on it. Formation and movement is extremely important.

AoS is a very simplified WFB. It plays like a demo game version.

If you've ever played a Total War game, that's WFB. If you've played Starcraft or Warcraft, that's like AoS but without any troop production.

>>50914286
>>50914340
Oh, I should mention you can use square bases in AoS, you cannot use round bases in WFB.

So if you want to play both go square.

>>50914182
Yeah, I have always hated huge hats in Warhammer and for some reason GW decided to stick with the meme that Nagash has the worst hat of them all.

>>50914286
There are plenty of tabletop gaming channels on youtube. I'm sure mentioning any specific ones will trigger an avalanche of hate from grognard posters over how they get everything wrong, but off the top of my head miniwargaming springs to mind. They have both Fantasy and AoS videos up, so it makes for an easy comparison.

But if you put them on square bases, I doubt there would be any reason that you couldn't use them to play Age of Sigmar. Whereas you can't really rank models up properly for Fantasy if they're on round bases. So you might as well put them on square bases and have the option to play both.

>>50914170
Gav Thorpe claims elves don't fall to Chaos. Generally speaking anything Gav says about Fantasy is shit.

>>50914198
Amusingly, there's a melancholy love song called 'The Reik is Wide,' which I only assume gets drunken Altdorfers crying in their cups.

>>50914593
Gav is also the guy that wrote the Storm of Chaos ending who everyone cherished.

>>50914340
>If you've played Starcraft or Warcraft, that's like AoS

Same artstyle, too, if you mean Starcraft 2.

>>50914718
Only because GW finally acquiesced to fan demand that Archaon lose, as he'd been losing everything since the campaign began like the fucking fag he is.

>>50915049
Archaon was literally a bigger loser than Abaddon in at campaign. Abaddon actually kinda won the Eye of Terror campaign.

>>50914718
What happened to him?
He used to be a chill dude.

>>50915282
He probably ended up recenting a good part of the fanbase and became bitter. He was kinda the Matt Ward punchingbag back in the day.

>>50915282
He was never cool, he was always the try hard wannabe that was a bit of a shit.

Ironically he seems to be doing the best at GW itself out of all the staff that used to be in WD.

>>50914593
But that's BS. There's no reason elves wouldn't fall to Chaos. I can accept that they are resistant, due to discipline and such, but if they could not fall at all, the Old Ones would never have made the dwarfs, whose only real advantage over the elves in terms of chaosfightyness is their inherent resistance to all things warpy.

>>50915458
The Elves were Gav's pet race and he spoiled them quite a bit.

>>50915458
It's BS if we go by Dark Elves fluff. Hell, Malus Darkblade killed a version of himself that had fallen to Chaos.

>>50915492
We could use more races with TLC instead of wanking Chaos ad nasuam.

>>50914718
We hated it at first.

Then End Times started and we saw it was good by comparison. At least it was funny and went somewhere other than a brick wall.

>>50915458
What's BS is chaos not having any counter to it, aside itself which is why the setting went to shit and imploded in the first place.

You can have a grim setting without chaos constantly shitting everything up.
There are/were a dozen factions. Give them some equal amounts of attention so we can stop having to constantly hear why chaos is so evil and unstoppable... it's boring as fuck.

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>>50915282
He clearly lost interest in the hobby.

Look at him here. Wrote a strategy guide and painted minis in the 6e Dwarfs book.

Look at him now. He's corporate.

>>50915635
Saying that there are no Chaos elves was just kinda stupid. Everyone makes deals with Chaos or think that they can exploit the dark gods. Even the undead.

>>50915635
Gav's TLC is making Elfdar out of Elves.

>>50915764
I don't agree with what he did. I'm just open to more creative license for the other factions to get some actual attention and depth, instead if "koas did it"

>>50915901
The realm of Chaos is kinda the primary source of magic, though.

>>50914340
I've never really playedca total war game, so Im a bit unfamiliar with the gameplay of it, but I have played through sc2. I liked it, but it ran like crap on my PC.

>>50914448
Hm. I getcha, I'll take a look at miniwargaming to get a gist of things. But, could you gimme a bit of a run down on what Warriors of Chaos are all about? I know only bits and pieces about them lore wise. Are they sorra like CSM, or are they a whole different ball game?

Gav's problem is the same one a lot of guys in comics got.

You get your dream job as a young man doing what you love, but you grow out of the hobby and are stuck with the job. You get more and more disillusioned, you forget the magic of being into it, and grow to resent the plebs that you were once a part of.

You latch onto what little you still like and bend the rest into it so you can actually give a fuck. Otherwise, you just shit the rest out for a paycheck.

Basically Gav has become Jim Lee.

>>50915936
They're not really much like chaos space marines, lore wise. I mean, in the basic principle of savage, dedicated warriors who worship chaos is the same, but they don't have any of the 'we were once loyalists, now we're really bitter about the fall, and hate the loyalists who worship a false god'.

They're a really good short story in fifth or sixth edition Chaos codex (the one with Engra Deathsword on the front). It's an excerpt from a traveller's diary - he goes to a Norscaan village as a trader, and trades peacefully with them. He notices that the women of the town go up into the hills with food every day, and asks them why. They are feeding one of the men of the town who mutated into a wolf-like beast. He asks them what they think of this, and why they don't drive the monster away. They answer that some warriors feel the call of the gods stronger than others, and some are changed by it. There's no point in questioning it, or rejecting the gods blessings.

There's no sense that they worship chaos because they're evil - they're northerners, and those are just the gods they have. It's just the way their world works.

Not that northern tribes don't do some fucking evil things because of it. Another story in that codex is about a Kurgan tribe taking captives they've raided to be sacrificed en masse, their souls thrown to the demons. So playing them as good guys in the 'honourable warrior' cliche would be a stretch. But they didn't start off good and make a choice to side with evil.

Those basic tribesmen are the Marauders. Chaos Warriors is what happens when one of these tribesmen feels the call of their gods so strongly that they leave their tribe and go out into the wastes to join a warband, fighting the eternal battle that rages across the roof of the world for the amusement of the dark gods. Devoting their life to 'honouring' their gods through battle, and possibly being rewarded in turn with mutations and shit.

>>50915936
CSM are Space Marines, holy warriors in holy armir, turned to Chaos. They are trying to bring the destruction of the Imperium.

Chaos humans in Fantasy are vikings and mongols from different tribes living in a frozen wasteland around a miniature Eye Of Terror who's only gods have been Chaos. Warriors are basically when the best warriors from these tribes gather together for whatever reason be it raiding, war, or something greater.

Most of the tribes think the Chaos Gods are a whole pantheon with different names, sometimes even thinking they are benevolent. Warriors know the general story that there is four and they are assholes but think they have beloved mortals and have a grand plan. The best Warriors are aware the Chaos Gods only have individual favorites and know that they have to struggle for attention. Only Archaon, Fantasy Abaddon, knows they are four retards who do everything for lulz.

Barring when they cluster around an Everchosen who tries to end the world, Warriors are mid-sized armies with different goals doing different things. Some are zealous, others just want personal gain like riches, magic, and pleasure.

In Total War, you command a block of soldiers and use formation and timing to wipe out units and make them flee the battlefield. In Starcraft you just command a handful of individuals in groups to kill each other.

>>50915936
They are extremely different games. AoS is an extremely stripped down, simplified skirmish game. It features big power gulfs, particularly between the older and modern releases, and lacks the detail to prevent things like shooting while engaged in combat INTO another combat without penalty. Basically it's a mess that would have been fine as an introductory ruleset in ADDITION to fantasy, but GW made the VERY questionable decision to replace it instead.

Fantasy is a so called "rank and flank" in which maneuvering blocks of troops is important. It has its own issues, huge blocks of troops, save-or-die magic spells, and lack of support high among them.

This is probably in poor taste in the fantasy thread, but check out Kings of War. It doesn't care which models you use, it plays fairly quickly, and it's a tight, balanced ruleset. The most frequent complaint is that it lacks the "character" of fantasy, which in some respects is true, but it manages a lot with a little, and the upsides vastly outweigh the costs.

>>50916722
Recommend whatever crunch, just stick to Fantasy lore somewhat here.

>>50916722
>Fantasy is a so called "rank and flank" in which maneuvering blocks of troops is important. It has its own issues, huge blocks of troops, save-or-die magic spells, and lack of support high among them.

8th edition did its best to remove any sort of rank and flank tactics so..,

>This is probably in poor taste in the fantasy thread, but check out Kings of War. It doesn't care which models you use, it plays fairly quickly, and it's a tight, balanced ruleset. The most frequent complaint is that it lacks the "character" of fantasy, which in some respects is true, but it manages a lot with a little, and the upsides vastly outweigh the costs.

Any suggestions for replacements are fair game.

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>>50916722
Kings of War is written by Alessio Cavatore, one of the former Warhammer developers and it has the blessing of Rick Priestley. So I consider it a worthy optional spiritual successor to Warhammer.

>>50916862
T9A and KoW are the best alternatives. Otherwise, 6e with anything you have from the later editions added in.

>>50916796
>>50916806
Cool. Fantasy lore is a bit silly and over the top, but I quite like it. Good thing they burnt it to the ground and replaced it with garbage!

Anyway definitely look up Kings of War. One very cool thing is that the individual models matter much less than the overall unit footprint, which means you can multibase your units on little dioramas. It is the kind of very cool thing that I will never get around to doing but like thinking about.

Specifically you want "Varangur" as the closest warriors of chaos equivalent. Not everything will be represented, but the game is very liberal with "counts-as", so just find something with stats that are a decent representation and make sure to be clear with your opponent.

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>>50916274
>>50916722
Alright, Im thinking I get the gist of what they're about. They're not exactly crazy, murder machines like the CSM are, but they most certainly aren't good guys. Seems kinda interesting that they aren't ALL psychopaths, and that they are based more around the idea of being their own distinct culture that reveres the gods just as the Empire does. Thats something that 40k chaos seriously lacks, that sort of semi-normalcy.

>>50916722
Would you consider Kings of War a good alternative to both? Im still looking for that sort customizability that whfb. But im also a tad bit intimadated by the complexity of whfb.


Pic related, its my warriors

>>50917042
WoC have their over the top parts, but it isn't a rule.

Oleg Klucksson could be a berserker of Khorne who raids everyone for skulls screaming BLOODFORTHEBLOODGODSKULLSFORTHESKULLTHRONEITMATTERSNOTFROMWHERE as he tears apart man, woman, and child to lay a black path for Archaon to follow ans swallow the world in the true blackness of Chaos.

Or...he could be a Northman who worships Shornaal and her brother Tülgeer not knowing both are different names for Khorne, and he only raids to plunder treasure so his meager village can buy arms to defend against raiders sworn to Bloplkix AKA Nurgle because after they kidnapped and sacruficed his son like they did his father he swore a man of the Ulkshir tribe will never fall to them again.

Either way you have a bloodthirsty rampaging warrior. But one is traditional Evulz, one is a more elaborate backstory.

Fantasy in general gives far more lore freedom than 40k.

>>50903782

To the rest of the men around the fire, he called out: 'You all know your duty, and I know you to be true and worthy of it. Beyond us lies more homesteads like the one we passed this night, and a village, Geigersdorf, that though it knows it not depends upon our victory here.' Vaclav dearly wished he could have spared a man to run and warn them, but a single man would likely not have made it through the forest alone. Outnumbered as they already were, splitting the force now was not an option.

'I need not tell you what awaits those people if we fail, and the beastmen will not stop there. Unless /we/ stop them. There are babes sleeping in their beds in the villages and farmsteads of our homeland who, gods willing, will wake in the morning never knowing the horror we've seen tonight.' He paused for effect. He could see the image of the burned out cottage, seared into the minds of every man there, being superimposed on the image of a peacefully sleeping village. None of them liked what they saw in their mind's eye. Then Vaclav added: 'And who knows, some of us may even survive as well.' He said it with a smile, and got a better laugh than he'd expected.

Reminding them why victory was essential was all very well, but it was better for soldiers not to go into battle with a heavy heart, Vaclav had found. More than anything, they needed their spirits lifted before they went into combat. He finished simply: 'This night is Ulric's Night: be assured, the Great Wolf watches over us.' He wasn't sure what Ulric could do for them now, but if they fought with a little of the strength of the wolf in them, so much the better. 'Have faith, and when the time comes Ulric will stand with us!'

He could feel the energy in the group of men rising. It was Manfred who called out, almost like a wolf's cry:

'Uuuulriiiic!'

'ULRIC!' Came the roaring reply, like a pack howling in the night.

>>50917211

'I don't know about you,' Manfred told them, 'but I don't plan to disgrace my family name by fighting in a battle that sees the death of a Margrave of the Empire. I know I'll not fail: not while our lord stands with us, not while our gods watch over us, not while our ancestors who shed their blood for this land still remember their kin. Ours is the victory: we need only stand firm and take it.' Beyond his swordsmanship and his tactical ability, his ability to inspire men had marked him out as a natural leader. 'To your positions.' he ordered.

The company looked to Vaclav. He took just a moment to mark their faces, knowing he would not see some of them alive again, and hoped they saw the pride in his eyes. Then, he nodded. And at his signal they went, eagerly, to take their places.

'Rolf, with me.' said Vaclav. They retreated back into the trees. Around them, knights and armsmen were taking up their positions. Some hid behind fallen logs, clustered in kill-teams of threes and fours, or hacked a space amongst the bushes. In a few places firs bowed under the weight of snow had descended until their branches touched the ground, creating a curtain of foliage under which several men could crouch unseen. Some of those with bows climbed trees and lay waiting in the shadows up above, silhouettes merging seamlessly with the branches outlined by the moonlight.

Slivers of the mountain that rose over Saint Helga's spring were just visible through the canopy. Past it, in the distance, the jagged shadows of the mountain range broke up the skyline. That particular spur of the World's Edge mountains was called the Wolf's Teeth, Vaclav realised. Ulric had been worshipped in these parts for a long time, long before the coming of Sigmar and the Empire. Maybe the Great Wolf really was watching down on them, from those sharp, white-tipped points.

>>50917154
40k is steadily getting less freedom with the fluff since they have decided to explain every mystery about the Horus Heresy, the Emperor and the primarchs.

>>50917249

It was cold. They waited as the whistling wind lashed up little flurries from the snow layered over the branches and bushes; it was growing, testing its strength against their furs and padded clothes. If they weren't careful they might genuinely freeze to death before the beastmen came. Vaclav saw Rolf shivering. He wondered how much of it was cold, how much of it was fear. Bravery could often withstand battle itself much better than a long wait beforehand. Vaclav motioned Rolf to come closer and whispered to him.

'Be sure you're at my back when the fighting starts. I'm counting on you to watch my blind-spots.'

Rolf knew that the five armsmen with them would offer better protection, but he nodded anyway, and looked somewhat heartened. Then Sergeant Pavel, who was huddled with them behind the fallen tree, whispered something in Rolf's ear that Vaclav didn't catch. Rolf shook his head, and Pavel produced from somewhere about his person a small, thin knife. Rolf took it gratefully. Pavel, noticing Vaclav's interest, whispered to Rolf a little louder this time:

'Should always have a spare weapon, boy. Just in case, if you know what I mean. Worst comes to the worst, none of us want to be taken alive.' Rolf nodded, and from his calm expression Vaclav thought that this wasn't the first time that had occurred to the young squire. Though Vaclav wouldn't have chosen to remind him of it at this point.

In fact, however, it seemed that Pavel's words worked better than Vaclav's - Rolf, occupied with testing the weight of the knife and stashing it in his boot, had stopped shivering. Pavel was an old hand at this; he knew his business as a sergeant.

They returned to their frostbitten vigil.

>>50917261
How Horus Got His Tattoos

>>50917273

It didn't help that they had to stand there and watch Boris and Manfred eating and drinking by the fireside. Boris laughed and caroused, and though he was just putting on a show for the benefit of the beastmen that didn't make Vaclav feel much better, nor, he suspected, any of the others hidden in the freezing night. Boris chucked a half-eaten shank of lamb at Manfred, who snatched it out of the air and took a bite out of it. The old knight roared with laughter and stamped his foot, which caused the log under him to shift and almost threw him off into the snow. This got a burst of mirth from Manfred, and an even greater one from Boris himself.

In a little while the younger knight had eased into his role and was cheerfully carousing alongside Boris, even breaking into song at one point. Vaclav wondered how much of it was still an act; they looked like they had genuinely started to enjoy each other's company. A good soldier could snatch a few moments of carousing anywhere, and Vaclav didn't think anyone could sing "Sigmar's Silver Hammer" - in two part harmony - with as much emotion merely for pretence. For a while, soldiers songs - old and new, cheerful and maudlin - echoed out through the forest. As the wind blew harsher and the night drew on, however, the singing petered out.

Boris had fallen into telling old war stories, as he usually did, and Manfred provided him an eager audience, cheering with him for the victorious charges and legendary duels, then throwing an arm around his shoulder and drinking to the names of those long since fallen. Vaclav was somewhat surprised; they'd always respected each other's capabilities, up to a point, but never sought out each other's company. Even if not under the best of circumstances, Ulric's Night had brought them together.

>>50917274
Hey. It seems 40k is undergoing an End Times event of their own that will transform the setting into something slightly different.

>>50917319

The wind gusted and swirled, and the bonfire crackled and spat hellish sparks. Vaclav kept it mostly out of his sightline, not wanting to spoil his night vision. Hour after hour, he kept watch on the darkness.

It was the very pit of night when the beastmen came. Morrslieb was at its apogee, leering over the landscape like a bulbous, baleful eye. They came crunching between the trees, snorts and the stamping of hooves carrying through the still night air. As they got closer they got more and more excited. Vicious, bone-rattling cries sounded, like those of a raging bull or rutting goat but twisted somehow and more like some unnatural language. They clashed and merged with the shrieking wind as it rushed through the branches.

They saw the light, and began to speed up, from a loping walk to a plodding, purposeful run. Vaclav could just see the shapes - many different shapes, all of them malformed and grotesque - advancing towards the fire. As they came closer, more and more came into view; the forest was thick with them. At a quick estimate, Vaclav decided they might be outnumbered two to one, maybe even three to one.

He had no more hesitation, no more fear now, however. He was past that. They would fight, and they would either triumph or die. Ulric willing, he would bring as many of his men home again as possible, but one way or another by his hand beastmen were going to die tonight.

His fingers closed around the hilt of his sword.

>>50917364

The leading edge of the warparty, nimble Ungors, had seen the fire and the two men seated by it. Their grating bleating spurred the others on, and although the snow slowed them somewhat they charged towards the circle of firelight. The scent of food and the sound of men were luring them in, and Vaclav knew that the taste of alcohol on the air from the doused trees must be driving the corrupted creatures wild. He wished he could see Sir Boris and Sir Manfred, but to keep his eyes ready in the darkness he dared not look towards the light.

Beastmen started to to pass Vaclav's hiding place. He had taken position at the left tip of a rough semi-circle that stretched around the campfire, the open end facing towards the direction of the beastmen's approach. A horned silhouette crossed in front of him, scarcely ten paces away. Close enough for him to see the hot clouds of breath coming from the grunting, slavering snout. It was carrying a two hand-axes that looked like crude meatcleavers, only with blades as long as Vaclav's forearm.

They had sharper eyes than men, and ears too. And their sense of smell was as good as a wolf's. Yet they passed right by the hidden men, lured on heedlessly by the feast laid out for them.

More and more beastmen were rushing past him, in towards the firelight. Closer... closer... not quite enough were within the arc to spring the ambush. Vaclav's eyes were fixed on the darkness, willing the shadowy shapes onwards. Nearly... just a few more...

He heard Boris' battlecry sound out clear over the rising wind and baying warpfiends: 'FOR ULRIC!'

Closely followed by Manfred's shout, rising clear through the night: 'FOR THE EMPIRE!'

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>>50917338
On one hand, I don't want the 40kfags to go through the bullshit we have. Especially cunts spamming "Ded gaem". We had disagreements in the past, but they're the same as us. Even if the lore of their game is subjectively bad.

On the other, I want GW to slaughter their last cow and finish their transformation into #fuckkonami so the entire gaming community can point at them and laugh.

>>50917432

Not yet. Almost, but not yet. Just a few more... just let them come a little closer...

Now.

Vaclav stood, and drew his sword. Rolf followed his example. Pavel, crossbow in hand, passed Vaclav a warhorn, and he raised it to his lips; the metal mouthpiece was furred with frost. He blew, and a long, low note, rumbled out and rose and reverberated through the forest air. For a moment, it seemed that no one had heard it: the beastmen carried on their furious dash towards the bonfire, and there was no sign of anything else in the thick forest.

Then, in harmony almost as if they were calling out the first bars of a Kriegerslied, the warhorns of his knights sang in answer.

accompanying music starts at 1:36 https://youtu.be/onGWF8mz1Zw?t=1m36s

Vaclav leaped over the fallen tree and charged. Through the trees, through the lances of moonlight falling among them. Behind him he heard the leaden thud of Pavel's heavy crossbow as the rawhide string snapped home against the wooden stock; he didn't see where in the darkness the bolt flew, but the sergeant rarely missed. Through the dancing snowflakes Vaclav made out a group of misshapen shadows, and headed for them.

He cut down two before they even knew he was upon them, sword flashing through the night. The third tried to strike wildly at him, but he knocked the spiked club aside and severed the hand holding it at the wrist. The goat headed monstrosity howled, spittle flying from between jagged, angled teeth, and he drove his sword into its throat.

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Does anyone know where in the WFRP splats the races' various nicknames for each other are recorded? I know I read about them before, and that elves call humans 'stunted ones' and that humans often mistake this as an anti-dwarf slur, but I can't for the life of me remember WHERE I ready this. I can't get by with just manling, mayfly, lumbahfoot, and Bretonnian forever, any help?

>>50917490
I don't think they will kill 40k as much as they will just try to set it in a new era where the Imperium is broken up and ruled by returning primarchs or something. It will be like the 40k version of Age of Sigmar where everything is more magical.

>>50917543

To his left he caught a flicker of movement out the corner of his eye, and turned to see a two handed axe swinging down towards him. He brought his sword up in an instant reflex, flinging black pearls of tainted blood into the air as he brought it round - but before the blow connected a crossbow bolt took the pig-snouted creature in the eye; the force of the impact span it around and flung it to the ground. Vaclav looked to his right, and saw another of the Gors impaled on the spikes of two halberds wielded by his armsmen. They bore it to the ground and stabbed down again and again while the thing squealed. The remaining two men-at-arms had backed a Ungor against a tree - it deftly lashed out at one, but he dodged, and this gave the other the chance to bring his greatsword down. The Ungor was split from shoulder to belly.

In a handful of heartbeats, seven of the foe had fallen. The first seconds of an ambush were most crucial - surprise, shock and speed gave the attackers the advantage. They would have to make full use of it if they wanted to have a chance at surviving this.

Vaclav looked to Pavel, reloading his crossbow - then he saw that the sergeant was looking behind him. He sensed movement, and brought his sword round. The now one-handed Gor, though choking on its own blood, was still alive enough to get its remaining hand on its fallen weapon. It rose for one final strike, but as Vaclav turned Rolf's sword was already coming down. He decapitated it in one stroke; swung from behind his sword sliced through the back of its neck and sent the grotesque head spinning off into the snow.

Panting, he lowered his sword. Vaclav met his eye, and nodded in thanks. He nodded back.

There was no time for rest. Around them, a battle raged.

I'll be back in a little while with what will hopefully be the conclusion

>>50916882
People should really stop saying "6th plus 8th units" as 7th's base rules were just a better version of 6th. Sure the army books wrecked the edition, but the base rules were much tighter.

>>50917794
7'th edition with 6'th edition army books is pretty good.

>>50917809
Definitely agree. All those cool Annual armies.

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Age of Sigmar and he End Times has kinda ruined Sigmar for me. I liked him better as a mysterious deity that might or might not be the real deal.

>>50908496

First of all, it transform them into CLANRATS, so yea, it literally turns them into new skaven.

Second of all, it can only target infantry, so stick it on a horse

>>50918172
He was real before those, he had living descendants who had divine power.

It just fluffed up Valten and Karl and Archaon as this nonsensical trinity of avatars.

>>50917042
I would consider Kings of War to be clearly the best option. As far as I'm concerned it does what Fantasy TRIED to do much better, and AoS is a laughable piece of garbage. It prioritizes clear, concise rules and quick gameplay over great narrative detail, which again, I would say is excellent but some people feel differently.

KoW uses a limited pool of universal special rules and stats to differentiate units, giving them each strengths and weaknesses. Let's take a look at three units: marauders, chaos warriors, and chaos knights (for reference Sp = speed in inches, Me = what you need to roll to hit De = what your opponent needs to roll to wound the unit, At = number of attacks and Ne = nerve, which is basically how much damage it can take, crushing strength reduces the enemy's De by x, thunderous charge reduces the enemy's De by x ONLY on the charge)

"Marauders"
Unit Size Sp Me Ra De At Ne Pts
Troop(10) 5 4+ - 4+ 10 10/12 75
Regiment(20) 5 4+ - 4+ 12 14/16 110
Horde(40) 5 4+ - 4+ 25 21/23 180

"Chaos Warriors"
Unit Size Sp Me Ra De At Ne Pts Special
Troop(10) 5 3+ - 5+ 15 12/14 155 Crushing Strength (2)
Regiment(20) 5 3+ - 5+ 20 16/18 220 Crushing Strength (2)

"Chaos Knights"
Unit Size Sp Me Ra De At Ne Pts Special
Troop(5) 8 3+ - 5+ 10 13/15 165 Crushing Strength (1), Thunderous Charge (2)
Regiment(10) 8 3+ - 5+ 20 16/18 250 Crushing Strength (1), Thunderous Charge (2)

So this post is getting bloated, but you can see what each unit does best from these blocks: the marauders are cheap, with decent, average stats; the chaos warriors are more accurate and cut through armour better, and the chaos knights are faster and devastating on the charge, but not so amazing after. Really simple differences, but they create battlefield roles.

>>50918210
Sure, I just like having him being more ambiguous. It made the faith component of his worship more interesting.

>>50918223
Well, the formatting looked nicer when I was typing, damn. http://kow2.easyarmy.com/ has all the unit stats, browse through that.

Anyway, customization is generally quite limited within each unit type, though you'll often have variations of the same unit (dudes with swords and shields, dudes with pikes, dudes with crossbows, dudes with rifles, etc). However, each unit (whether that's a regiment of infantry or a hero) can take a magic item, letting you tweak their abilities a bit. There's a bunch of them and I don't have the list in front of me, but things like ignoring terrain on the charge or being harder to shoot or hitting harder for a turn, that sort of junk.

So if you chose to take a big sledgehammer unit of chaos knights you might also want to invest in a magic item that helped them get off their very effective charge, or perhaps that protected them on the way in. Can also help fluff units the way you want (though the Varangur list is already pretty close to chaos since it was basically made to allow fantasy players to bring their lists over)

Speaking of Kings of War, I don't have much good to say about GW, but that rereleased Isle of Blood (Spire of Dawn) is a damn good value. Kinda makes me want to start up an elf or ratkin army.

>>50919596
Well, the models are pretty damn good. So it's a nice kit to get either way.

how do i get into 8th edition. i have no idea where to start

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>>50920410

Step 1: Go the pastebin at the top of this thread and read the first few pages of the rulebook.
Step 2: Pic a faction to play you like.
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit.

>>50919665
Yep. Best Swordmasters and rat ogres by far, the characters are sweet, everything up to snuff.

It got me browsing through their online store, man their pricing is insane. Elite infantry:
Ironbreakers - $60 CAD for 10
Stormvermin - $59.50 CAD for 20

>>50920505

Yeah that's a bit rough, the Stormvermin should be under $50 by UK prices (£30 for 20). That's not too bad though for elite infantry... well as elite as any Skaven unit will be.

>>50918223
>>50918362
What I love about KoW is the footprint system. Rather than 10 20x20mm bases, you just treat the unit as 40x100 (or whatever else) for rules purposes, and don't fiddle around with removing the individuals. This also lets you make neat dioramas for your units. It's not a perfectly balanced games but the devs are more responsive than Grandma Wendy ever was, and there aren't a whole lot of redundant rules. For a rank'n'flank type game I think it has the right mix of simple and complex, i.e. where it is complicated it matters and where it doesn't it's simple, with the overall mindset toward keeping everything easy. The rules are maybe less "characterful" than 8th/9th age but if you have two braincells to rub together you can do that with your own fluff, modelling, and scenarios. KoW is what AoS should have looked like. Anyways I'll stop shilling now.

>>50920590

As much as I love Black Powder (which uses the same footprint rules), I honestly think they should have just made 9th Edition a skirmish game but kept all the lore and models.

Games like BP and KoW work because they sell cheap models, you can fill out a 160mm x 100mm block for like £20, Fantasy's models were just too expensive for a 28mm R&F game in my opinion. They either had to reduce cost, which they were never going to do, or move to something akin to 40K.

>>50920454
>Barefeet
>In a public place
3DPD

>>50915458
I kinda thing he tried to force Eldar traits onto Elves.

>>50917660
I have finished this, but I'm too tired to post it now. See you guys in the morning for the final (lengthy) instalment. Hopefully the payoff will be worth it.

>>50921875
You're stringing us along here! But I'm happy to wait, the story has been excellent so far.

>>50902448
R8 my undead legion collection:
1 Vampire Lord on dragon
1 Vampire Lady on Foot
1 Vampire lady on Coven Throne
1 Tomb King
1 Banshee
1 Strigoi Vampire on foot
1 Necromancer
1 Necrosphinx
3 Vargheists
3 Spirit Hosts
1 Skull Catapult
5 Blood Knights
5 Hex Wraiths
15 Black Knights
15 Grave Guard
20 Ghouls
70 Skeletons

Hows it lookin so far, /whfg/?

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>>50922878
smegmary outa 10, you do seem to have a large collection though with some neat units so props on that, here is a dude Im working on, now post pics of your army anon

>>50908496
The spell isn't very well thought out in how crunch relates to fluff. For example, it only affects infantry, I can understand the spell itself being unable to affect things that are too large (though that itself raises the question of why it won't affect swarms) but why not transforming the rider but not the mounts? Why won't it turn horses into great pox rats, snake swarms into rat swarms and ogres into rat ogres?

I honestly think that the spell should leave the target unit under its owners control but turn core units into clanrats (who become ballistic skill 2, retaining the same special rules and equipment they had before), and special and rare infantry into either Nightrunners or Stormvermin. Nearly every faction will have had their units suffer a major nerf from getting a unit turned to clanrats/night runners/stormvermin, and even Stubborn units will break easily when they are leadership 5. Though, turning enemy Monstrous Infantry into Rat Ogres and Monsters into Brood Horrors should probably stay out since that might replace an enemy unit with a stronger enemy unit.

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Anyone mind rating my T9A Dwarfs? Just your first impressions, I'm not getting big into details here.

>King, Throne, Blender lord rune upgrades (multiple wounds, extra attacks)
>Anvil of Power, dispel spell, direct damage spell, reroll to wound spell
>Thane, BSB, crossbow, Flaming Standard
>Engineer, Wyrm Rocket

>20 Thunderers, full command, Guild-crafted handguns, shields
>20 Quarrelers, full command, shields

>Gyrocopter
>20 Miners, full command
>20 Miners, full command
>10 Rangers, full command, crossbows, shields

>Flame Cannon
>Organ Gun

>>50917596
>I don't think they will kill 40k
>the 40k version of Age of Sigmar

Pick one.

>>50924813
Please don't spread this horrible meme here. 40k isn't ending, and they aren't turning into age of emperor. They're getting the equivalent of endtimes, if they stopped the story right after khaine/glottkin and made that the new setting. they're moving into the endtimes, but not playing it to the conclusion.
The only AoS that will leak into it will be crunch, which would be quite welcome since 40k needs a rules streamlining

>>50924921
>getting the equivalent of endtimes

If this is true, then it's really just the same as killing 40k.

>>50902448
My dick just exploded.

>>50925704
That'll teach you to masturbate to Tzeentchian porn

>>50922341
yeah, sorry - Christmas is theoretically the time for a Christmas-themed story, but as regards the actual writing it would have been more convenient to wait until say, March, when I'm not spending every waking moment with some form of relative or another. Anyway, here's the next section - not quite the finish, because there's still a fuckton left and I don't have time to sit here for an hour watching the post timer count down. But we're getting there.

Through arboreal maze, Vaclav caught glimpses of the circle of light around the bonfire. A melee was underway - steel flashed in the firelight and figures swirled about each other, but Vaclav was too far away to make out much. Still, someone was fighting over there - maybe Boris and Manfred were still alive. For a moment he got a clear view of the combat, highlighted by the flames, and saw a large man physically throw a hulking Gor to the ground, then impale it through the back with a greatsword. That could only be Boris.

Vaclav wished he could go to their aid, but he had his own battle to fight.

They pressed on, cutting down any beastmen they came across. The warpspawn were still spread out, confused. One by one they fell, individually no match for half-a-dozen well armed, well armoured men. Vaclav's band accounted for another five before they came across a knot of resistance. Seven Gors and four Ungors, clustered backs to a tree, clearly rallied by one brute of a Gor with huge rams horns and red eyes.

Pavel's crossbow thumped again, but a gust of wind buffeted them and instead of going into the Gor's neck, the bolt took it in the shoulder. It swayed for a moment, but did not go down. Instead, it opened its mouth and roared a cry of the purest, bloody rage.

>>50925922

Three halberdiers were not enough to provide an impenetrable wall, however. The leading Gor, slowing only a little, batted one of the points aside with its axe and came straight at Vaclav. It swung straight for his neck, but he rolled, passing under the blow, and buried his sword in its hairy, goat-like leg. It brayed in fury, and brought its axe back around, but as it focused its rage on Vaclav it took its attention away from the other men. A halberd spike rammed up through its chin and pierced its brain.

Vaclav was already moving on. He gutted one Gor and split an Ungor's head open in quick succession, deftly slipping his sword past their crude weapons. Beastmen relied on strength and ferocity to bring down their prey, but against someone as well-trained with a weapon as a lord of the Empire their skills were thoroughly outmatched.

Vaclav looked round. Sergeant Pavel, now bearing a sword, and the four men-at-arms were facing off against three remaining Gors and an Ungor. Some of the men were clearly wounded, but they seemed to be having the best of it - as Vaclav watched another Gor fell. Rolf was fighting two Ungors at once, weaving and ducking to avoid their spears. They jabbed and harried him, but he knew how to use his sword, and though he had no opening to attack he was keeping them at bay. Vaclav walked up behind one and, with calm efficiency, thrust his sword clear through its back and out the other side. He pushed the wretched creature off his blade, but before he could turn his attentions to the other Ungor, Rolf lunged. Distracted by Vaclav, the Ungor didn't have time to react before Rolf's sword pierced its heart.

'Thank you, sir.' Rolf said. He was breathing heavily, but there was a glint in his eye, a burning satisfaction. Vaclav was torn between pride and sorrow.

'You're doing well, boy - but don't let it go to your head.' Vaclav warned. 'Stick by me, no matter what.' Rolf nodded.

>>50925947

The armsmen were mopping up the remainder of the warpspawn, quickly hacking down the thrashing Gors. The last Ungor tried to flee, but Pavel went and retrieved his crossbow. The beast didn't get twenty paces before it dropped, a crossbow bolt in its back.

Wasting no time, they continued through the darkness. It was hard to see anything through the nocturnal gloom. Theoretically, they should be heading meet the men who'd taken position on the opposite side of the battleground, rounding out the arc of the ambush to close the circle and trap the beastmen inside. In practice, Vaclav simply led his men on. He thought he could make out distant shapes, of men and monsters fighting for their lives, but he couldn't tell which was which, or even be sure it wasn't just a trick of the shadows and the wind-blown branches.

They came across the debris of battle - lumpen mounds that were barely visible until they tripped over them. Beastmen, laying where they had fallen, with the shafts of arrows sticking up out of their chests. Ten of them, at least - whoever had taken these had done his job well. Then Vaclav looked up and saw the archer, caught in a net of branches, transfixed by crude spear that had been thrown clean through his chest.

Wind buffeted them. The terrain was hard, and every step was an effort, but though they seemed to be making slow progress Vaclav realised it had been less than fifteen minutes since the battle had started. They needed to find the others, to link up with other groups of ambushers and close the noose around the Chaos warparty's neck. But in the darkness, with the wind snatching at their faces and throwing flurries of snow about, it was hard enough just to stay with their own group.

>>50925978

Then Vaclav heard a thunderous bellow, muffled by the wind and the thick forest but too loud not to have come from nearby. He looked around and saw, in a clearing a little way off, a huge shadow stalking through the trees. It was surrounded by smaller shadows; none of them looked like they could belong to anything human. But from somewhere close, a horn was sounding, blowing sporadically in a panicked call for assistance.

Vaclav led his men towards it. The horn blasts grew closer, and then suddenly a man appeared from behind a tree, stumbling towards them. It was one of his armsmen - private Jensen, in fact, who back at the castle had given Vaclav the idea for the ambush with his mouthful of chicken leg. He called out to them,

'Watch out! It's coming, we...' and then, as he reached them, he saw who it was, and breathlessly reported: 'I'm sorry my lord, it was too much... they scattered us, I lost sight of the others. They have a...'

But private Jensen didn't need to explain what had beaten them back. Out of the darkness it came, charging with the force of an avalanche.

A bull minotaur, ten feet tall, with horns as long as swords and enough strength to crush an ork's skull in one fist. If you wanted to kill it, ideally you'd bring a cannon.

If you tried to stand in its path, you'd be pulped.

'TAKE COVER!' Vaclav shouted. He grabbed Rolf, and threw him to one side. The other armsmen, private Jensen included, dove out of the way - though Pavel had the presence of mind to send a crossbow bolt into its chest first. It didn't so much as stumble, thick muscle preventing the bolt from striking anything vital. The minotaur was carrying an axe and a club, both bigger than Rolf. Both were dripping with blood and gore.

>>50925995

As it passed one of the men-at-arms only narrowly avoided being sliced in two by the millstone-size blade. Fortunately, the minotaur didn't have the agility to match its ferocious momentum. It took ten paces to skid to a stop and turn. Sergeant Pavel was already re-drawing his crossbow, but as he brought it up to fire the minotaur swung its club, forcing him to throw himself aside. It sailed over him, and he jumped up and took aim.

Before he could loose the bolt the backswing caught him from behind, lifting him up and sending him flying off into the darkness.

Vaclav watched him fall out of sight, but he couldn't do anything - for hot on the heels of the minotaur came the beastmen who had rallied around it. Gors, Ungors and Brays all came surging forward. And in the meantime, the minotaur was looking for its next victim.

Vaclav didn't intend to give it the chance. It wasn't his idea of a fair fight, but he didn't have a choice - he had to bring that thing down. He came at it, sword raised in a two handed grip.

It swung its axe; Vaclav didn't even try to parry it, instead feinting to one side and then dodging around the blow. He lunged for its torso, but it was too big, its reach too long, for him to get close without exposing himself. It jabbed at him with the club, and Vaclav danced backwards, struggling to maintain his footing upon the icy ground.

>>50920590
The regiments being of a more modest size was part of why I loved the game prior to the 8'th edition. Then hordes and the increasingly larger monsters made the general footprint size bloated. The board just ended up feeling more narrow and smaller to me.

>>50926007

He then had to pause to deal with a Gor that came charging in from his left. He swatted its spear aside, and instead of trying to bring his sword around to finish it, slammed into it with his shoulder, knocking it into the path of the minotaurs approaching club. The heavy wood connected full-on with a satisfying crunch, throwing the Gor aside in a heap of broken limbs. Vaclav didn't have time to rest, though, for the axe came round again. This time he had no choice but to block; his strong, two-handed grip stopped the axe from slicing him in two, but it knocked him off his feet, throwing several paces. Scrabbling in the snow, he tried to right himself.

The minotaur advanced. Around them, the melee was devolving into anarchy, men and warpspawn fighting for their lives. The minotaur, however, was fixated on him, striding through the swirling mass of combatants.

He got to his feet just as the bull-headed monstrosity's axe scythed towards him. He struck it aside, the shock of metal-on-metal jarring his arm, and riposted. His strike opened a great gash along the minotaur's arm. It bellowed in fury, and came at him even fiercer than before, hooves grinding furrows into the icy earth.

He was forced back. He was isolated now, driven away from the main body of the fight. The minotaur bellowed, and Vaclav was sure that in its bestial face he could see a savage smile as it brought its axe down towards him. He stepped aside just in time, but now he had to deal with the club which was coming towards his chest. He twisted awkwardly under it, and although he nearly escaped it clipped his shoulder and sent him sprawling.

>>50926033
The good part about KoW is that horde-sized (40 dudes, or 200*80mm) units aren't inherently better than regiment-sized (100*80) ones.

Also the army selection system is balanced but allows a shitload of versatility.

>>50926041

Vaclav was stunned by the heavy blow; something felt broken, if not completely shattered. His shoulder felt like it had shards of bone sticking out of it. Fortunately, he still had the presence of mind to roll as he landed. The minotaurs axe slammed into the ground where he had been a second before, and it snarled with rage. In frustration it forgot its weapons and starting stomping down with its hooves, gouging out great clumps of snow and dirt as Vaclav tried to save himself from being trampled. A hoof connected with Vaclav's breastplate, kicking him away, and he skidded across the snow into the base of a tree. The impact knocked the breath out of him, but now he had a chance to get to his feet.

His sword lay several paces away.

He glanced at his shoulder, and realised that the pain was coming from the crumpled metal of his pauldron. Quickly, he pulled at it, managing to tear it off completely, and threw it aside. He could at least move his arm now - but he needed to reach his sword first.

The minotaur stomped the ground, preparing to charge.

Out of nowhere, a crossbow bolt slammed into the minotaur's side, just above the hip. It didn't fall, but it certainly felt the blow, and bellowed in pain. Vaclav looked along the bolt's path, searching for Pavel - but instead he saw Rolf, now desperately trying to re-draw the string of what was for him an oversized weapon. The minotaur saw him too, and for a moment it was distracted, trying to decide which of the feeble man-things it wanted to vent its fury upon.

Vaclav took the opportunity, and ran for his sword.

The minotaur reacted, but not quickly enough, and this time it was the one forced to bring its weapon up in an attempt to block the incoming strike, raising its club to protect itself. Vaclac saw this, and altered the stroke's angle - instead of cutting into the creature's body, it struck the hand holding the weapon.

Severed fingers fell away, and the club dropped to the snow.

>>50926058

This still left Vaclav with the axe to deal with, and he had to jump back sharply as the heavy pig-iron nearly amputated his arm. He edged back cautiously, willing the minotaur to come to him. Just then another bolt came whistling through the air; it might have been aimed at the minotaur's head, but it had gone high and a little wide - instead, it ricocheted off the minotaur's horn and away into the trees. The minotaur shook its head, snorting, and continued to advance on Vaclav.

Vaclav feinted towards it, sword darting out, and then backed until he came up against a tree. The minotaur responded by lunging, swinging down with its axe, as Vaclav had wanted - he threw himself aside, and the axe blade hit the tree trunk, biting deeply into the wood. The minotaur's eyes went wide as it realised what it had done and it snarled, feral intelligence seeing the mistake immediately, but it was too late. As its muscles heaved trying to free its weapon, Vaclav slipped past it, delivering a perfect, heavy two-handed strike to its knee.

It collapsed, leg giving way under it. It tossed its head to the side, trying to gore Vaclav with its horns, but he had already moved out of reach. Supporting itself in a kneeling position on its one remaining leg, it made one last effort to free its axe. But as it strained another crossbow bold slammed into its spine. Rolf had come forward, and shot it in the back at point blank range. The minotaur's arm dropped away from its weapon. Even so, Rolf began calmly racking back the string for another shot.

>>50926070

The minotaur's black hide was dripping with its own blood now. It moaned, but there was still a savage undertone to its pain, as with one hand and one leg it struggled to hold itself up. Vaclav came forward carefully, sword raised. A hate filled eye, blood-red tinged with scleral yellow, watched him approach. The beast was panting heavily now, barely able to support its own weight, but it was still strong, still capable of crushing a man with a single blow, or impaling him on its horns.

Vaclav didn't give it the chance. He jumped forward and brought his sword down on the back of its neck. It dropped, limbs giving way immediately, but its neck was too thick to slice through it in a single blow. It took two more heavy cuts for Vaclav to decapitate the beast. It probably died on the first strike, but it paid to be sure. The foul creatures did not die easily.

Vaclav, his deep breaths clouding frostily in the air, went over to Rolf. Too tired at that moment for words of encouragement, he merely patted him on the shoulder. Rolf nodded, understanding. He had finished reloading the crossbow, despite the fact that his young arms were barely strong enough to work the lever; he brought it level, pointing it into the night, ready to defend his lord.

They were alone. Somewhere, fighting was still going on, but like a storm rolling across the sky it seemed to have passed them by.

No, not alone. There, past the bush, something was moving.

A Gor, misshapen head sporting tusks that had grown right through the roof of its snout, charged screaming towards them with its axe raised in both paws above its head.

A crossbow bolt appeared in its belly, and although its momentum carried carried it on its charge had turned into a fall. It hit the snow and skidded towards them. Vaclav stepped forwards and swept his sword down, making a bloody ruin of its already unattractive face, stopping it dead.

But there were more things moving in the darkness. Many more.

>>50926091
got to have lunch now, and then go see Star Wars. Will post more later.

>>50924921
>They're getting the equivalent of endtimes
have they really learned nothing from the Age of Sigmar debacle?

>>50926055
I do like that KoW doesn't make my unit entierly useless when it's on the verge of death. It can still do some damage before someone takes it out.

>>50926109
They learned that Age of Sigmar sells.

Anyone willing to give me some feedback on my first list? Not really a /tg/ regular but i found all my old warhammer stuff a week ago and hit up a friend thats willing to play

WoC 1000
Exalted Hero BSB MoT Shield Dragonhelm ToE 188
30 marauders Gweapons Light armor musician/standard 320
5 warhounds 30
12 warriors MoT Shields musician/standard 204
3 skullcrushers standard 275

With only 5 more hounds and a sorcerer model to work with i think this is looking decent. Im up vs high elves so any pointers would be nice

>>50926181
Apparently they learned, but simply they will not fuck their playerbase furiously but include points form start, they won't explode the setting...

They will just axe most rules and minor factions.

Yes but the counterpoint is that units are really fragile and will rout pretty fast if not supported.

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>>50926181
Can I see where GW says that?

>>50926555
meant for
>>50926171

>>50926555
I don't mind that.

>>50926655
I don't either, it's fun and the game system is pretty interesting because it doesn't devolve in boring slogs.

>>50926587
My FLGS manager says that almost nobody was buying WHFB prior to the End Times and that people are actually buying AoS.

>>50926708
>My FLGS manager says that almost nobody was buying WHFB prior to the End Times
There was nearly to no releases in the 3 years before end times.

>>50926716
Everyone except Bretonnia got a new army book and miniatures released throughout 8'th edition.

>>50926801
No wait. I forgot that Beastmen and Skaven also existed.

>>50926801
Wasn't the last army for WHFB released in early 2013 ?

>>50923882
sorry anon I don't really know warhammer rules but do like painting the. Your guy looks real neat though, could you post your army?

>>50926837
>Wood Elves May 2014
>Dwarfs February 2014
>Dark Elves October 2013
>Lizardmen August 2013
>High Elves May 2013
>Daemons of Chaos March 2013
>Warriors of Chaos February 2013
>The Empire April 2012
>Vampire Counts January 2012
>Ogre Kingdoms September 2011
>Tomb Kings May 2011
>Orcs & Goblins March 2011

There was plenty of release during the lifespan of the 8'th edition. They even released two armies the same year that the End Times kicked off. There was also the Storm of Magic book and monsters to go with it as well.

>>50926837
There was the wood elves in 2014 a whole 3 new plastic kits my dude.

That's a bit less than what AoS is getting every month.

>>50926708
>playing 8th edition
good joke lad

>>50902448
Any way to join the equistaine pledge manager?

>>50927270
Try emailing them with a request. The worst thing that will happen is that they say no.

>>50926109
>have they really learned nothing from the Age of Sigmar debacle?
They have. They confirmed that 40k end times isn't happening. It's just a meme people like to spread

>>50924921
ET: Khaine killed Fantasy. Glottkin the "guess what, we're killing Fantasy".

ET: Nagash was the only stopping point.

>>50927894
The return of Nagash as an event had been teased ever since the Dark Shadows campaign.

>>50926181
Remember "we will never squat an army again"?

>>50927962
That's the first I have ever heard of it.

>>50927986
Statement made in 200? where runors were Sisters were kill, Bretonnia was kill, Dwarfs were kill.

GW said no more squatting.

Fast-forward to France and Egypt.

>>50926848
Half of its still shipping, stripping and cleaning some.

Just trying to figure out how many Thun/Quarr/Rang I should assemble.

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Quick question: WHICH ARMIES DO YOU PLAY?
HOW BIG IS YOUR COLLECTION FOR EACH?
WHAT FACTION IS YOUR ARMY?

>>50928153
Vampire Counts and Bretonnia. I havn't actually played the game for years or tended to my armies because I thought that 8'th edition was a steaming pile of crap and I was hoping they would release a new edition.

Now I'm sort of making an Empire army waiting for Warlord games to release plastic landsknechts because GW's statetroopers looks ugly as fuck. I have no idea if I will ever get to use it because no one seems to play Warhammer, 9'th Age or KoW where I live.

>>50928153
>Empire, about 500 footsloggers and 50 cavalry all included, one steam tank, a special cart to play them in KoW, a dozen of warmachines, one hero on gryph and one hero on pegasus
>Persian and arabian-themed undead, 300 minis altogether, mostly WGF and mantic with old GW metals including Zacharias on dragon
>a hundred or so dwarves, mostly GW but with some mantic and a scibor hero, 2000 points in KoW
>a nightstalker army for KoW, roughly 2000 points
>a few goblins and brets, something like 1000 points each in KoW
I mostly play KoW nowadays since it's the big thing in my area

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>>50928153
>TK
3k points worth, a king and queen somewhere on the Warhammer Nile.
>VC
5k-ish. All five Bloodlines.
>HE
5k-ish. Yvresse, Lothern, Eataine.
>OnG
1k maybe. General tribal force.
>Dwarfs
3k. Barak Varr.
>DoC
3k, Slaanesh.
>Empire
0.5k, mostly Raging Heroes and Halflings with a pinch of Nuln.
>Skaven
2 IoB sets plus the OOP Bell.
>Nippon
Proxied VC.

Yes, I have a problem. Also, less than 10% of it is painted.

>>50926864
>>50926874
I have no idea why anyone still buys anything from GW. It's an incredible display of bad faith to sell people Fantasy stuff when they know they're about to junk it for Age Of Sigmar.

I really hate people who spend money on Age of Sigmar. Not because it's a shitty game and a waste of money (although it is). If we want to stop corporations using despicable, greedy tactics then its beholden on us, the consumer, to stop giving our money to them when they do shitty things. The only reason corporations have for not using every dirty tactic in the book is their fear that their reputation will suffer and they'll loose business as a result. If people keep buying from them no matter how much they fuck the consumer, then that's basically a green light to them to continue being as back-stabbing and money-grubbing as the can possibly be.

>>50928548
post what yo have painted anon

>>50929160
Cheap six tit Daemonettes.

>>50929160
I'll probably cave in and start playing AoS because it seems to be the only popular fantasy game in town. I'll make my armies out of third party minis, though.

>>50928153
>Quick question: WHICH ARMIES DO YOU PLAY?
Come to think of it I have miniatures from pretty much all factions. Except Dwarves and High Elves. Those Diva factions just turned me off with their animosities.
>HOW BIG IS YOUR COLLECTION FOR EACH?
Got at least a handful of units or characters for each except the Dark Elves.
>WHAT FACTION IS YOUR ARMY?
The only one I built and painted are Orc and Goblins.

>>50929703
Wait. Demons of Chaos are their own army now. So strictly speaking that's another army I had no interest in.
Mortal Chaos all the way.

>>50929742
I'm the complete opposite, hated the mortals but am cool with the Daemons.

Eh, different strokes for different folks.

>>50930699
Stroke this

*unzips ghal maraz*

>>50926181
>Age of Sigmar
>sells

Pick one.

>>50931482
It sells more than WHFB does.

>>50927868
>They confirmed that 40k end times isn't happening.
Source?

Also, obviously they'd say that. But it's also obvious that they have no idea what issues people are referring to when they say that The End Times were shit.

>>50931538
>It sells more than WHFB does.
[citation needed]

Everything we know suggests that Age of Sigmar fucking tanked, in terms of sales. They've recovered a little, going for the TT market that doesn't care about the setting and just want to wargame, but other than that, nothing.

Also, there's countless threads you could shill in that doesn't relate to Age of Shitmar. Why shill in this one?

>>50931538
>It sells more than WHFB does.
Well, duh. It's a replacement not a competitor.

>>50931547
Well, GW's writing has been rubbish even before the 8'th edition.

>>50931538
Being fair, it's hard to pin the blame Warhammer Fantasy's lackluster sales on the game when GW literally gave negative shits about it.

"New WHFB edition! Biggest changes yet, with every army rulebook needing an FAQ added to the BRB to remain viable!"
"Oh, great! When's the first 8E army book come out?"
"In four months."
"What?"
"Yeah, we got two Space Marine and a Chaos release in the interim, Your first army book will come out Q1 of next year."

>>50931999
I personally thought a lot of the plastic kits they released for the 8'th edition looked tacky. Shit looked more over the top and cartoonish then I prefer. Naturally this trend continues with Age of Sigmar. So i just didn't buy a whole lot of 8'th edition minis.

>>50932114
Man. When the Ogre Kingdoms book came out I way pretty hype. Had an army worth's of unbuild models kicking around then.
Then I saw the WoW tier models and how they reverted to pink skin.

To quote Donald Trump: Sad.

I'm thinking about selling the stuff, still haven't touched any of it.

>>50932114
This

In trying to be more copyrightable GW has managed to become more generic.


I saw the recent Dwarf Blood Bowl models and they looked exactly like something from Warcraft or Warmahordes.

>>50932114
Useless too.

Canons made big kits mostly useless unless they provided buffs like the Mortis Engine.

The dual build kits like Gyrobombers and Sisters Of Avelorn were their best idea, released while they were preparing for AoS anyway.

>>50932198
I felt sad about VC ever since the 7'th edition version when they ditched the bloodline aesthetics and rules. I never liked how they made the vampires look like a mix between Chaos warrios and Dark Elves.

Naturally the 8'th edition didn't do anything about this and added weird unmotivated stuff like the Coven Throne.

>>50932114
The kits weren't exactly wonderful either, but it's obvious that GW was phoning in the hobby when it came to WHFB. I was wrong and it actually took about eight months for the first WHFB Army Book to come out for 8E, and within the first two years barely five books had been released total.

This might not look especially bad at first glance (6E 40K took about a year to get its first army book out, and 5E is only printed one book more in the two year frame), but almost every interim release over all three periods was 40K-centric (with a number of them Space Marine-focused). Warhammer Fantasy was far more likely to get scenery releases than Wave 2 / Wave 3 Army ones.

It could be argued this is a chicken / egg situation, but even BL Writers pretty much acknowledged that if you wanted to get into the company you had to do something 40K before they'd let you branch into WHFB. GW, just like with Specialist Games, couldn't be arsed to give two shits for the game, and sure enough when money didn't magically land in their lap when they did give a bone they decided "It must be because it's a losing proposition, double-down on 40K!"

>>50932264
Vampire Ghouls looked great!

But they looked like Chaos mutants not half dead cannibals...

>>50932278
Well, they did try to sucker everyone into getting a monster for their army with Storm of Magic.

>>50932198
>>50932264
I loved both the OK and VC, its a shame what they did to their aesthetics.

>>50932340
VC did have some decent plastic stuff, but I didn't like their character models.

>>50932342
I think this was GW not realizing why vehicles became popular in 40K around that time (well, more popular) and going "Big WHFB Kit = Big WHFB sale boost, yes?"

Only they forgot that there was a reason - barring certain armies and specific choices within them - most competitive lists did not include such models and they typically became a display figure when bought. You can clearly observe various changes in how large monstrosities worked in WHFB (ex: Arachnarok Spiders being utter shit whereas TK Sphinxes weren't half bad) as they slowly tried to piece together the winning rule combination to make people want to buy them.

File: 15800987_10208298713565283_761255483_n.jpg (58KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

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hey so these are 3 bretonns I have been working on
first is paint done and I've posted him, he needs much varnish

the Musician needs a dullcote or 29, and the bannerman on the right needs possibly to be banished/blown up, hating him but he's the least done, still gotta do some fine detailing/cleanup. It's just murdering me as the regular knights are fun but these 2 ancient helmetless dudes are certainly not
I''m using them as knights panther

>>50932506
I'm planning on making my own Knight Panther out the historical Perry plastic knights.

>>50928548
Is that a pic from the old MMO or from TotalWarhammer?

>>50932828
Looks like the Total War vampire chick.

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>>50932828
TWW.

>>50932404
Wight King was pretty cool.

>>50933391
Only character models I disliked were Mannfred and the one with one wing.

>>50933438
Bald Mannfred was a mistake. Inliked him better when he looked like Cristopher Lee Dracula.

>>50933438
>>50933574

There was a definite shift from "Aristocracy of the Night" to "EVULLLLLL!"

Shilling a WHFB race creating theread
>>50930497

>>50933658
Huh, nice to see it going somewhere, though I was the guy that proposed octopus-people in the thread it's based on.

>>50933606
Yeah, that's what the Necrarch bloodline was for. They really did their best to make the Necrarch as obscure as possible in the 8'th edition. I think that Zacharias was mentioned only once in the 8'th edition and it was when Nagash made his brain explode for not bending knee to him in the End Times.

>>50933858
They axed Necrarchs to make Mannfred seem more important, since as a Nagash devotee master wizard he became the leader.

Like squatting Undivided to make Be'lakor and Archaon more speshul.

Which was pointless. After Konrad anyone would look competent, and Mannfred was shit on as a loser later regardless.

>>50933930
It was a shame. I really liked the theme of the cryptkeeper scientist vampire with no sense of right or wrong.

>>50926091
>>50926109
Right, this time it really is the final section. Also, Rogue One is awesome, better than Force Awakens

Vaclav looked at Rolf, and said urgently:

'This way, quickly. Leave the crossbow.' Rolf didn't need to be told twice.

They ran. Feet falling on the slippery forest floor, they dodged round fallen trees and past holly bushes. There were grotesque shadows, all horns and unnaturally angled legs, all around them in the night.

An Ungor rushed out from behind a tree and swung its crude sword at Vaclav. He parried it and ran it through, stopping only to slide the bestial thing off his sword with his boot. They rushed onwards, darting through the forest almost as fast as the still gusting, whistling wind.

A pair of Gors charged in from their left, trying to head them off. Vaclav crippled one with a slice at its leg, and slew the other outright with a blow that bit down into its chest through its shoulder. Still they didn't stop. Rolf stumbled, barely keeping his balance on the frost covered tree roots, and Vaclav slipped an arm under his shoulder to keep him upright. He was barely aware of the next beastman he killed: he saw a flicker of movement coming at him, swung his sword, and was rewarded with an unnatural scream.

Still they ran. Rolf was starting to tire, though, and in a minute Vaclav was not so much supporting him as dragging him.


- Lord, the fight goes darker now, and the cold grows stronger;
- Fails my heart, I know not how, I can endure longer.


'Stop, stop...' said Rolf, panting, exhausted. 'You'll have to leave me, m'lord. I'm sorry, I can't...'

Vaclav stopped, but he didn't leave the boy's side. There were shadows all around them, closing in.

'So much for running.' he said. 'Draw your sword, Rolf. As long as we can still hold our weapons they haven't beaten us.' Rolf's hand moved uncertainly to the hilt of his sword, and he said, in a small voice,

>>50934287

'It's so dark out here. They're all around us.' He shivered, and said haltingly: 'I'm sorry, my lord... I don't know how... I don't think I can...' The grating, unnatural cries of the beastmen sounded out. They were everywhere.

They were mocking them. Savouring their victory.

Rolf was shaking.


- Mark my lesson, good my page. See me strike them boldly
- Take heart, let the beastmen's rage, freeze thy blood less coldly.


Vaclav took Rolf's hand and closed it around his sword's hilt.

'Don't fail me, Rolf. Not now. You said you were with me to the end, didn't you?'

A barking, goat-like Gor made a premature lunge towards them, and Vaclav cut it down, slicing clean through the haft of its spear and hacking open its chest.

'You see.' said Vaclav, confidently, defiantly. 'They still bleed - they still die. Draw your sword, and stand with me.'

Slowly, Rolf's sword slid out of its sheath. It hung by his side for a moment, purposeless - and then he raised it, holding it ready.

'I'm with you, my lord.' he said firmly.

The beastmen were shrieking with delight now. They advanced, closer, drawling the circle tighter. Rolf and Vaclav were forced back against the trunk of a mighty oak. Seven, eight, eleven of the creatures came forward - and more. Too many - there had always been too many. Vaclav should never have led them to this. If he'd waited, taken time to gather a few more men... but it was too late for regrets now.

Closer, the beastmen edged, still wary of Vaclav's sword. Close enough to for the two of them, Margrave and pageboy, to see the snarling snouts, the leering, slavering faces, misshapen by their tainted origins so even by the standards of an animal they looked vicious and foul.

>>50934324

Jaws with yellowed, broken fangs snapped, and sharpened hooves kicked the ground. They were nerving themselves up for the final strike. They struck weapon upon shield, clanged their clubs against iron-armoured chests. Their roar and their crashing blows grew into a cacophonous storm, engulfing the two lone defenders like a blizzard.

Vaclav stood firm, unflinching, with Rolf at his side.

The wind picked up, like a dog stirred up into a frenzy by the excitement going on around it, blasting against them and buffeting them all into silence before it died down to a darting breeze. As the beastmen flinched before the sudden gale, Vaclav heard another sound.

On the wind, a savage howl carried through the trees. It sounded hungry. More joined it, calling out into the night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG1eqd8T5-I

'More of them.' whispered Rolf. 'More beastmen, coming for us.' The howl echoed off the trees and resonated in the freezing air.

'No.' said Vaclav, hesitantly. It was different somehow; Vaclav couldn't have said how he knew, but he didn't hear the taint of Chaos in it. Then, as the howls grew nearer, he said with more conviction: 'No, that is no warpspawn.'

He just finished his sentence when the first lean, grey-furred body slammed into the nearest beastman like a cannonball, taking it at neck height and throwing clear out of sight into the darkness. Vaclav distinctly heard the crack of the beastman's neck breaking on impact.

>>50934454

The next beastman was already turning when the next wolf came out of the night, but that didn't stop it from being smashed off its hooves as the arrow-fast wolf leaped up, going for the throat. The remaining beastmen had had time to react now, and started to turn away, facing outwards towards the new threat. Vaclav didn't waste the opportunity, cutting down one, two, three in quick succession, his sword flickering back and forth almost too fast to see. He went for another, but missed the axe-wielding Gor when a massive, black-pelted wolf tore its legs out from under it.

In shock, a few of the remaining beastmen tried to run, but most didn't get far. More wolves were pouring out of the darkness - Vaclav counted at least ten - and as soon as they took one beastman down they moved onto the next target. Alone, a wolf might have trouble taking down an armed beastman without the element of surprise. But Vaclav saw one of the Gors battling three wolves at once: even as it drove one back with its cutlass, another locked its jaws onto the Gor's arm, and another took its leg, pulling the struggling beastman down until the third closed again to finish it with a bite to the jugular. Then the pack moved on, looking for more prey.

Vaclav could still hear the howls - there were more wolves in this forest tonight. Many more.


- By his master's side he stood, though the foe did thunder;
- Then wolves, howling, from the wood, struck the beastmen sunder.


'Come on.' he said to Rolf, who was standing there, stunned. 'We have to find the rest of our men.' When the young man didn't react, Vaclav shouted sharply: 'Rolf!'

That seemed to snap him out of it. He lowered his sword - but didn't sheath it - and came to Vaclav's side once more.

'Yes sir.' he said, a little dazed. 'I'm with you sir.'

'Then come on, and stick close.' said Vaclav, and they set off hurriedly between the snarling fight going on around them.

>>50934480

Vaclav headed more or less back towards the direction that he thought the bonfire was in. He could see just enough of the sky to get a rough idea which direction he was facing. Though the ever mysterious Morrslieb had apparently set behind the jagged skyline now, Mannslieb was still full and bright in the winter sky.

It was still very dark beneath the forest canopy, but Mannslieb illuminated enough that Vaclav could see that there was a new battle taking place amidst the trees. The forest was thick with the darting shadows of the wolves, and wherever they met the beastmen they tore into them with a savagery even the brutish beastmen themselves couldn't match.

Already suffering from Vaclav's ambush, the beastmen were starting to break now, running back towards the depths of the forest. One Ungor, fleeing heedlessly back into the night, almost ran right into Vaclav and Rolf, and Vaclav ended it with his sword before it even realised they were there. As they progressed, three more of the beastmen fell this way, careless of the danger the remaining men posed now that the wolves were on their heels.

The next beastman they saw was being dismembered by four wolves. One huge, white-streaked wolf worried an arm out of the socket with a bloody spray. It growled as they came close, and its hackles rose, but they gave it a respectful berth and it let them pass, content that they wouldn't challenge it for its prize.

Finally, Vaclav saw some figures that didn't have horns, or run on four legs, and with Rolf he headed towards them. There looked to be seven of them, some limping, or supported by their comrades. As the men drew near, one of them ran towards them. Vaclav saw a face he recognised, private Jensen, who - for the second time that night - stopped suddenly when he saw that it was Vaclav.

'It's them, it's them!' he called back, almost crying with relief. He waved to the others. 'It's Lord von Böhmen, and the boy.'

>>50926488
Can't really judge because of the small size, but try to sneak the sorcerer in there, magic (especially countering it) is top priority

Marauders, especially great weapons, are suboptimal against low-T troops like elves and you are sacrificing the parry save for that, also, warhounds won't do much for you

>Im up vs high elves
Expect BotWD faggotry, half the time waiting for your opponent to reroll and to lose like a bitch, depending on how much of a tryhard your friend is

>>50934506

Behind the private limped up another six of Vaclav's armsmen - including Pavel Ivanovitch, supported by two men-at-arms. It looked like four of the five armsmen he started the ambush with, plus three more including Jensen.

'Sergeant.' Vaclav called. 'I thought you were dead. Good to see you.'

'Likewise.' Pavel growled, with difficulty; he seemed to be having trouble breathing. 'We thought the minotaur had got both of you.' Pavel had trouble getting those words out, and not just because of his injuries. If Vaclav hadn't know him better, he might have thought that was a tear forming at the edge of his eye.

'Almost.' said Vaclav. 'But in the end, I brought him down - with a little help from Rolf. How are you still alive, anyway? That club must have weighed half a ton.'

'Eh, my armour took most of it. I'll be needing a new back-piece when we get home again. Fortunately it was good quality steel, or I'd not be talking to you now. After that, I kind of lost track of what was hitting me - it was all I could do to keep hitting back. We almost got overrun for a minute there, then the rest of Jensen's lot showed up to lend a hand; they regrouped after they were scattered by the minotaur. After that, we managed to hold our own until the wolves came.'

'Ulric be praised.' muttered one of the men, with reverence.

'You can say that again.' said Pavel. 'I've seen a lot of things in my time as a soldier, even seen some magic now and again over the years, but I've never yet seen anything like that. One minute we were fighting for our lives, the next minute there were wolves everywhere. Strangest thing I ever saw. We might well not have come out of this if they hadn't turned up.'

Vaclav looked at the motley collection of survivors.

'How many did we lose, though? Have you seen any others alive?'

>>50932235
the dual build kits were a decent idea. I didn't really care for the designs but some did and that's ok. Tje kicker was the price. You take the Sisters of Avelorn/Shadow Warriors example, it was £30 for ten of them! that's insane.

>>50934547

'We lost Bermann just after you two got separated.' said Pavel. Bermann had been one of the halberdiers who'd fought alongside them. 'He got surrounded by a couple of them, and they hacked him to pieces. We also lost two from Jensen's lot to that damned minotaur. I don't know of any besides that - we ran into a couple of knights who were having a pretty good time, all told. Barely a scratch between them - although their armour had plenty of dents. They said they'd been trying to get to the fire and ended up surrounded by twenty of the warpkin. Only got out of it thanks to the wolves. We mopped up a few of the stragglers together, and then we split up into three groups to try to find you.'

'Well, we're not going to find them now by wandering around in the dark.' said Vaclav. 'The enemy are on the run now, they shouldn't be in too much danger. Let's get back to the fire - everyone should be making their way back there.' In the darkness around them there still came the frequent howls, and the occasional muffled scream.

It took them only another five minutes to get back to the bonfire. The bloody corpses of fallen beastmen were stacked several deep around the edge of the firelight, but miraculously the assembled feast had survived intact. About fifteen of the company were already clustered around the fire, dressing their wounds or just resting. Among them were Sir Boris von Bauerhof, and Sir Manfred von Schwarzfeld. Manfred was on his feet, directing the triage efforts, but Boris was on his back, a wound in his side being dressed by an armsman.

'Merciful gods!' exclaimed Manfred. 'My lord - thank Ulric you're alive.'

'Vaclav?' shouted Boris from the floor. 'You there?'

'I'm here, my friend. It's good to see you both alive.'

'The night isn't over yet.' said Boris, grunting in pain as the armsman bound his wound tightly. 'Seems I've been spitted like a roasting pig. I got the goat-faced bastard that did this to me, though.'

>>50934573

'That's an understatement.' commented Manfred. 'I've not seen many feats to equal it on the battlefield. I saw him take a spear right through the gut, and thought he was done for. But he reached out broke the thing's neck with his bare hands, while it was still holding the spear.'

'I wasn't much use after that though. I'm guessing you won the most trophies tonight. Ah well, vigour of youth and all that. Serves me right for trying to keep up with you, I suppose - a man should learn to grow old gracefully. Well, how did you fare, Vaclav?'

'Lord von Bohmen killed a minotaur in single combat.' said Rolf.

'Hah. Show off.'

'Not entirely single combat. Rolf was there - he stayed by my side throughout.' Vaclav added. 'That reminds me, sergeant - if you want to find your crossbow, just look for the minotaur corpse. It doesn't have a head, but still, it should be pretty hard to miss.'

A wolf's howl sang through the forest again; momentarily the hiss and crackle of the fire was drowned out.

'Ulric was with us, m'lord, as you said.' said one of the knights.

'They came here too?' asked Vaclav.

'They were everywhere.' said Manfred. 'All in an instant, they took down half of our attackers before they even realised what was upon them. We had ended up fighting with our backs to the fire - eight of us, holding the circle against... well, I lost count near the end. And we became six, after Sir Boris was injured, and Helmut von Stolzhaften fell trying to defend him.'

'A noble death, for a noble man. We would have gone with him, but for the wolves.' said Boris sombrely. Then he coughed, and laughed gruffly: 'What the hell, Vacalv - are you really that beloved of Ulric? I've knelt in the chapel on holy days and said the words, but I don't think I've ever done anything to merit a miracle on this scale. I don't recall ever hearing stories about Ulric sending wolves into a fight - you must have caught his attention.'

>>50934613

'Well, this is Ulric's Eve my friend. If Ulric were ever to hand us a miracle, it's no surprise that it would be tonight.' Vaclav said, but then he added: 'Although truth be told, I'm just as confused as anyone. A man can't live in these lands without some faith, but I wasn't expecting such a... ' he struggled to find the right words, '...such a direct intervention. I've never heard of wolves behaving like this either - you'd think that in a winter this harsh there wouldn't be enough of them out there...' he trailed off, as his mind caught up to what he was saying. He looked around the bonfire, at the stacks of ham, mutton, beef and venison, lying there waiting in the snow.

The creatures of the forest were starving. This was what had forced the beastmen to band together start raiding humans - but they couldn't be the only predators suffering under winter's touch.

'The feast.' Vaclav said in realisation. 'I wanted to attract the beastmen, but how good is a wolf's sense of smell? Laying all this out must have been like setting a signal fire visible from one end of the forest to the other. And how fast can a wolf run? Every wolf pack within leagues must have made straight for this fire as soon as they caught the scent. They're more cunning that the beastmen, though, or at least more cautious - they knew we were waiting in ambush. I bet there were some hiding out there, unseen, while we waited for the enemy.'

'They're pack animals - they wouldn't have attacked until they knew they had the numbers. But as more packs poured in from the surrounding forest, and with the battle throwing blood around... well, we've all seen what can happen if you let more than a couple of dogs off the leash together. Numbers can turn even a puppy into a predator, never mind a wolf when the scent of blood is in the air. Then, well - then they fell upon the beastmen like a pack of starving wolves.'

>>50934637

'So much for our miracle.' grunted Boris. 'Still, it was damn lucky they arrived when they did.'

'More than luck.' said Manfred. 'I still say Ulric had a hand in this. Did any of you have to fight back the wolves? Maybe they just hate the Chaos filth more, but given the shape we're in, we're blessed that they just let us be. I'd say miracle is as good a term as any.'

'There's truth to that.' said Vaclav. 'Though how much, I guess we'll never know. But what I do know for certain,' he added, picking up a discarded wine-skin from the snow, 'is that tonight I'll drink to Ulric.' He drank, long and deep, and his men followed his example:

'TO ULRIC!' Came the cheer, and it almost shook the snow from the branches.

'Build up the fire.' said Vaclav. 'Make sure anyone still out there can find their way here. And don't think you can rest yet - this is still the feast of Ulric, and we're surrounded by food. Eat, drink, and be merry. As your lord, that's an order.' This got a cheer as well, and the men set about the strewn banquet with almost as much relish as the wolves had laid into the beastmen.

Sure enough, the stragglers trickled in until all forty of them were accounted for. Nine were confirmed dead, and eight were seriously wounded. They continued to feast throughout the night, drinking to victory, to the gods - especially Ulric - and to the memory of the dead.

Since they had candles to hand, they lit them in memory of the fallen. At first, they tried resting them on the ground to mark the site of the battle, but the wind soon blew them out, so they placed them in a fir tree, sheltered by the evergreen branches. As an afterthought they hung the weapons of the slain beastmen from the fir tree, as trophies, so all could see how many of the hated enemy had fallen to their bravery; the steel ornaments glinted in the firelight.

>>50934713

When morning came, all eight of the wounded were still alive, even though many had been near death. Vaclav once again felt that hint of something special in the air, that feeling some force was watching over them, protecting them. They packed up the wounded on makeshift stretchers and made for the castle.

The rest of the food was left out at the base of the fir tree for the wolves to find. It was felt by all that they deserved it.

When the full castle garrison came out to retrieve the dead, they also found the corpses of over a hundred and twenty beastmen. Many had been torn apart or scavenged upon, but from the weapon marks the men who fought that night accounted for at least twice their number in beastmen dead before the wolves entered the fray. Either way, the soldiers burned the tainted remains, and brought their own fallen comrades back for an honourable burial. There were more than a few beastmen tracks leading back into the forest, but the relief force weren't foolhardy enough to pursue. Besides, there were plenty of wolf tracks heading in the same direction.

For the survivors life went on much as always. The winter was hard, but it passed, as winters do, and they were still there to see the end of it. And not so much as another whisper was heard from beastmen, or any other dark force, throughout those difficult months.

Sir Boris von Bauerhof never went into battle again, the wound in his abdomen having finally slowed him down after all those years of fighting mankind's enemies - but he lived to feast on Ulric's Eve many more times. Rolf continued to grow, strong and true - it was said by all that in a few years he would likely take Manfred's place as the finest knight in the fiefdom. Even by Manfred himself, who took to training Rolf personally in the skills of survival, assisted by Pavel Ivanovitch.

>>50934800

And up and down the Empire the news spread of the little known Reiksgraf from the wilds of Ostermark, who had fought and won against incredible odds with Ulric's own wolves at his side. All across the land the victory was celebrated in story and song.

Vaclav von Böhmen had little use for fame. He was content that he had protected his people from the darkness, that they had woken that morning after Ulric's feast never knowing the horrors that the dark gods had sent for them. He kept his faith in Ulric close to him always, but all he asked of the Great Wolf was that he help him be a good leader to his people, and stand with him in their defence.

And it should be known by all - be you knight or knave, peasant or prince - that Ulric always did.


- Thus Imperial men, be sure, wealth or rank possessing,
- Ye who now defend the poor, stand with Ulric's blessing.


Well, that's the end. Hopefully I haven't shitted up the thread too much with my avalanche of writefaggotry (it's literally enough for a novella, posted in 2000 character chunks). Please, tell me what you thought of it. If you don't tell me where I went wrong, I'm just going to keep doing it.
Oh, and Merry Christmas to everyone, and a happy New Year.

>>50934906
Thanks, may it be a good year for you too. And merry Christmass, we're still in the liturgical octave, I think.

Put it on 1d4 chan and link. I admit I stopped reading like ten posts in for it's a terrible way to read such stuff, whlist it seemed pretty solid.

>>50935076
Thanks, anon. I'll probably post a dropbox link or something tomorrow, or maybe a pdf.

Incidentally, what specifically annoys you about reading it this way? I can understand not enjoying reading it a few posts at a time, but is there something about 4chan's format that makes it a chore to get through? I've always figured people are more likely to see stuff if I post it in the thread, but if it's harder to read that way I might start looking at other options.

>>50934906
Also, for anyone is interested, here is the full version of the song from the story in one place, and a link to the music its based on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQVUMG6LZGM

Good Reiksgraf Vaclav looked out, on the Feast of Ulric
When the snow lay round about, glimm'ring bright as magic
Brightly shone the moons that night, tho' the frost bit sorest,
When a poor man came in sight, stagg'ring from the forest.

Hither, page, and stand by me, if thou know'st it, telling,
Stricken peasant, who is he? Where and what his dwelling?
Lord, he lives a good league hence, underneath the mountain;
Right against the forest fence, by Saint Helga's fountain.

Bring me flesh and bring me wine, for beastmen are abroad
We shall see the monsters dine, served their just reward.
Page and Margrave, forth they went, forth they went together;
'Gainst what darker gods had sent, through the bitter weather.

Lord, the fight goes darker now, and the cold grows stronger;
Fails my heart, I know not how, I can endure longer.
Mark my lesson, good my page. See me strike them boldly
Take heart, let the beastmen's rage, freeze thy blood less coldly.

By his master's side he stood, though the foe did thunder;
Then wolves, howling, from the wood, struck the beastmen sunder.
Thus Imperial men, be sure, wealth or rank possessing,
Ye who now defend the poor, stand with Ulric's blessing.

>>50934906
Quality story! Beats some BL stuff that I've read.
Perhaps you could post the whole thing as a PDF? It's worth saving and sharing.

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Are there recent statistical numbers on how large the Empire is, or just provinces? Population counts? Army sizes?

>>50934906
I think it was a great writefaggotry. I enjoyed it. Rally the kind of stuff you could find in an army book.

>>50935430
>Perhaps you could post the whole thing as a PDF?
yeah, like I said I'll see if I can do that tomorrow. I really ought to get some sleep, I have to drive a few hundred miles tomorrow.

btw, if you're interested here's my /tg/ Christmas contribution from last year (it's 40k, not fantasy though.)
https://1d4chan.org/images/e/e7/A_Visit_From_Logan_Grimnar.png

I also wrote a Warhammer Fantasy story for Halloween last year. It isn't as good as the one I just posted, but it's not terrible so if you like my work you might feel its worth glancing over it.
https://1d4chan.org/images/4/48/SkavenAssassin1.png
https://1d4chan.org/images/0/0b/SkavenAssassin2.png
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/File:SkavenAssassin3.png

I used to try writing for warhammer fantasy more often; I have one or two other Fantasy stories from a while back that a sort of partly done. I more or less lost interest in them when Age of Sigmar was announced.

>>50935553
GW writers, by Gav Thorpe's own admission, just make numbers up. No Warhammer numbers or scale should ever be trusted.

>>50935645
Which is also the answer that no one wants to hear. It's better to just tell people it's a secret or whatever. It's like if Gav doesn't give a shit.

>>50935797
>It's like if Gav doesn't give a shit.
Exactly

>>50935805
It must be terrible thing to fall out of love with your hobby and just have it become a boring job.

>>50935869
Think that's bad?

Know the history of Image comics? Well, the guys that started it with the exception of Erik Larson and McFarlane would scout cons for their fanboys who had learned to draw by tracing their style. They employed these guys to fill in panels, and as time went on do more and more of the book. These guys were uncredited, so their entire portfolio is "I can draw like Liefeld" and "I can draw like Jim Lee" with no proof as to what they did so they can't get work. Comics went from boyhood passion to Huck Finn's fence painting.

The equivalent is exactly what GW did. They stuck random writers on the ET BL books with a basic outline of the story, subject to change. The ET books are credited to them, but likely dictated to interns or underlings.

>>50935553

Army sizes not so much, but Sigmar's Heirs, a WHFR book, has numbers for various provinces and cities. Apparently, Altdorf has a population of roughly 105,000 people.

>>50936056
I couldn't even make it through most of the Nagash book. It was some of the most boring purple prose crap I had ever read from GW. I understand that the writing got even worse with Age of Sigmar because amazingly retarded naming conventions.

Was there ever a relevent Ungor?

>>50936189
In first edition it was a more historical 15,000.

But that lead to the other problem, where the Empire mostly consisted of a few dozen villages villages of under 100 people around each town. And the whole setting seemed too small to even sustain the number of models on a tabletop, yet alone the fluff.

>>50936189
Even this raises doubts, considering censuses for most settlements seem to follow the 'tax-paying head of the family' model.

File: img502cc0d2810b9.jpg (729KB, 3068x1525px) Image search: [Google]

729KB, 3068x1525px

>>50928234

I used to be the same but GW's State Troops really grew on me after a while. I think it's if you plan on having Greatswords or not, if you do then having landsknechts as both units looks a bit weird.

File: Skaven Underempire.png (6MB, 2316x1540px) Image search: [Google]

6MB, 2316x1540px

So can Skaven come up under Wood Elves or has that since been changed?

>>50938595

that feel when a skaven map would have the human names for cities... Yea..sure..the Skaven can spell and pronounce Bordeleaux...

>>50938678
You mean wouldn't?

>>50938735
no.

>>50936056
"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." ?

anybody got the sigmar is not my god pic

>>50938595
If you read the Skaven WFRP 2e book, while they theoretically can, they don't try any more - they've been BTFO too often.

>>50938900
The fact you lack basic spelling doesnt mean a skaven cannot pronouce simple things.

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>>50938678
>...
>..
>..
>...

>>50939969
If we go by the examples in Gotrek & Felix, even skaven with a scholarly (by their standards) understanding of man-things tongues are laughably inept.

>>50940161
I wouldn't be surprised if they captured and tortured a human scholar to learn all the names of cities. Easier than making up their own names for places, in a way.

>>50938422
I'm just gonna get Perry Footknights as greatswords and pretty them up with some greenstuff to make them look more baroque.

I really wish that I would have made an Empire army in the 6'th edition instead. That was such a great sweetspot for Empire minis.

Is the Battlescribe app broken for anyone else? Trying to figure out my army size, apparently in a 2500 list my maximum points to spend on lords is 49.

Reading through The Children of the Horned Rat.

Awesome pod, best Warhammer race.

>>50941320
Liber Necris is also a good read.

>>50940929
You could look into the Foundry and Lead Adventure ranges.

If Warlord finally get them done the Westfalia Landsknecht minis are gonna be a nice plastic kit.

>>50940929
You can still pick up the 6e Metal Greatswords on eBay. They're not as cheap as the Perry Footknights but they're they look wonderful.

>>50941682
I know they look wonderful, but I'm a poorfag and it's also kinda fun to make your own thing. Having a very personal and unique looking army was always one of my favourite aspects of the hobby.

>>50935553
Older fluff has it more historical, but most of the recent fluff from 8th jacked up the scales to the point where even elves are fielding armies in the high tens of thousands, and empire cities are described as being massive and miles across. You also have the empire losing thousands of men in random side battles, yet this doesn't seem to cripple their economy or military strength and they're constantly at war.

I just head canon it to where the major empire cities like Averheim and Altdrof are about 3x larger than real life counterparts and with several times as many people. Altdorf having 3-5 million citizens isn't too much of a stretch

>>50941860
I think capecomics has the same problem where they over time jack up the powerlevel of everything in an attempt to keep people interested and to look more impressive than the competition.

>>50941948
I don't really mind the huge numbers, it makes more sense this way than having historical humans be able to sustain the population needed for all the wars they're fighting against foes who can field 50-90% of their population as troops and replenish those losses far faster.

>>50942000
I just think that the 8'th edition overcompensated a lot of things in general.

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>>50902995
>Skavens always looked half Nurgle half Tzeentch to me, maybe because I like goofy cartoon villain Tzeentch.

I don't like goofy cartoon villain Tzeentch at all, but I don't see what that has to do with it; the Great Horned Rat is pretty clearly overlapping Nurgle and Tzeentch.

>>50942223
>I don't like goofy cartoon villain Tzeentch at all
Tzeentch is more goofy villain on the surface but when the secret plan starts florishing, the mask comes off and shows the actual threat.

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>>50938595
>Things

Just things.

>>50941860
>Altdorf having 3-5 million citizens isn't too much of a stretch

Altdorf canonically has a population of 105 000 households of taxpaying citizens.

There is no fucking way it's got a total population of 3-5 millions. If you're going to headcanon it anyway, headcanon it so that later fluff is disregarded because it's retarded instead of making it all more retarded.

The idea that The Empire is constantly at war and loses thousands of men in random side-battles or that imperial cities are enormously massive is trash-tier fucking nonsense.

>>50941860
if you want massive battle in the millions, aos is for you.

for warhammer 10000 man is a fuckhuge army already for the old world, but its like a skirmish squad in AoS.

>>50942850
Yeah, anything more than 1 million people in one city in a renaissance period is just ludacris.

>>50942993

Nah. Thats fine. It's a high magic setting and wizards aren't all that rare. Not to mention they are closer to victorian than Renaissance so it'd be more like London than Renaissance Paris.

>>50943042
How are they closer to Victorian?

>>50943042
man you should really read literally any book on the empire.
that will avoid most of the nonsense.
wizard are common on the tabletop but not in-universe.
they are not here to fucking spellgrow crops

>>50941860
The average size for a medieval German city was 40,000 people. London in the middle ages, which was the capital of a relatively centralised country, had a population of around 50,000 (although it peaked at around 80000 just before the black death hit). I could accept Altdorf having a population somewhere in the 100k-150k range; anything under half a million would be at least believable by warhammer standards. But its ridiculous for the Empire's cities to have anywhere near a million inhabitants, let alone 3-5 million.

>>50942850
>Altdorf canonically has a population of 105 000 households of taxpaying citizens.
that isn't so bad, even if we take that to mean 105k adult males that still only puts it somewhere around 300k-400k, which while high is not so high as to be just impossible.

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>>50943258
Speaking of nonsense, the numbers given in WFRP 2e would mean there was a single battle wizard for every 10000000000 citizens of the empire.

The number given for Altdorf isn't too bad if you assume it's households - the 16th century population of Paris was about 200-350k.
The population numbers given for the countryside are horrifically low, even taking into account the Storm of Chaos and that only a portion of the villages are represented.

There's also a lot of things you aren't going to be able to reconcile with the population as-is. The art consistently depicts a setting far more epic in scale than a realistic early renaissance europe.

>>50943258
Eh, GW were so inconsistent and lazy with the fluff in he last ten years that they probably decided that there are as many wizards as there need to be.

>>50942223
>Shallya with aspects of Nurgle and Slaanesh

See, I know those whole theory is popular since all gods are from the warp, but every god being aspects of Chaos gods is stupid when it ends up including things those gods don't cover, and when those gods are actively antagonistic.

Shallya hates Nurgle more than anything, and Tzeentch is closer to her domain of healing since one of his champions does have the lore of life. And she's a pure maiden, so she has nothing to do with Slaanesh.

I think it makes a lot more sense for all gods to be distinct entities that do not overlap, but have vastly different power levels in the warp.

>>50944352
I think that it was Gav that pushed the everything is Chaos angle.

>>50944376
Is there anything in WHFB that Gav wrote that wasn't shit?

>>50944424
Nope

>>50944424
Gav wrote the 7'th edition Vampire Counts army and turned it into the von Carstein army book. I hope he gets stuck writing for Age of Sigmar for the rest of his life.

>>50940772
Imagining a Skaven trying to say 'Bordeleaux' is admittedly hilarious.

>>50944376
Correct.

>>50944424
Nope, see >>50944602 . Gav is a piece of shit.

>>50944352
I agree that most gods should have 0 overlap, but I tend to think Horned Rat IS a Tzeentch and Nurgle overlap, mostly because I think Skaven were a Tzeentch plan that got out of control that Nurgle tried (and failed) to steal. Turns out that the Skaven are so incredibly egotistical that the only thing they'd really worship is themselves, so you get a warp tumor in the form of the Horned Rat.

>>50944352
>but every god being aspects of Chaos gods is stupid

That's not what is explained. They occupy similar aspects of the warp. Jesus fucking christ, it's even explained how inadequate the chart is precisely for this purpose.

You're fucking things up because you think of these entities as distinct personalities, instead of characterizations of the aspects of the warp taken form, created by the influences of sentients and imposed upon the Immaterium.

Shallya isn't a part of Nurgle, other than for the fact that the Great Four represents the totality of the Warp; she's simply one aspect of the warp made manifest, influenced by thoughts and beliefs that happens to be shared in part by the warpstuff that constitutes what is interpreted as Nurgle; relatively speaking, these parts are significant but infinitesimal in comparison to the infinity of the warp.

For example Shallya would overlap with Khorne in her hate for disease, but in interacting with that disease and the mortal hopes that are generally thought to feed Nurgle (conservation and preservation, hope (and for Nurgle, the despair that feeds from such), genuine care for people and their well-being, etc.) she will share many aspects with him; so also with Slaanesh - she is a pure maiden, but that purity in itself is an aspect that would be Slaaneshi.

Slaanesh isn't some base deity of carnal lusts, sex, drugs and dildos that even GW believed in by the end of the setting (which is why they retardedly thought he could be included in nothing); he's the god of obsessions and perfection, and if there's a single Chaos God that would entertain the idea of having a court of eunuchs and virgins, all perfected to the degree of being demented, it'd be Slaanesh. There'd also be a palace of degeneracy, but that's a completely different aspect of Slaanesh that Shallya obviously wouldn't share whatsoever.

>>50944424
Grudgelore.

>>50944376
Everything Gav touches being shit aside, however, I think this was hinted upon far, far earlier. It is not so much that everything is Chaos or that the four Gods are all there is to the warp, but that all of the warp constitutes The Big Four. It's a small but very important distinction to make.

One makes everything Chaos a creation of The Big Four. The other makes The Big Four a creation of the entirety of Chaos.

Presumably, the only things that are not part of Chaos would be the Gods of Order, but whatever realm they occupy, I have no clue what it would be, because they haven't been mentioned at all since extremely early on in the history of Warhammer Fantasy, and even then they were described as practically forgotten.

I prefer to think of the Gods of Order as literal physical creations within the Materium itself, and could very well have been (or are) the enigmatic Old Ones, possibly having created pocket planes that are not of the Warp, but adhering to the laws of the physical universe and technically part of the Materium, perhaps isolated in a manner similar to the Webway in 40k. But that's all make-believe on my part.

>>50944896
>I agree that most gods should have 0 overlap

That's absurd. Considering that everything within the Realms of Chaos is a manifestation of thoughts and beliefs and concepts, it'd be insane to think that there's no overlap. For example, any God or Goddess that cares for knowledge for it's own sake would have an overlap with any other God or Goddess that does so, because they are all created by that same idea - this would include Tzeentch.

>>50945344
>but whatever realm they occupy,

Realm of Entropy?

>>50945344
They probably toned down the gods of Order because GW didn't want to get sued by Michael Moorcock, who was already recentful against GW for making money on his ideas.

>>50944896
That makes sense to me. After all, it's hard to argue that Ulfric is not heavily based off of Khorne, but he has become his own distinct entity for the Empire, instead of being another variation of Khorne worshiped by Norscans ignorant of their war gods being Khorne.

>>50945159
I understand the argument that you're making, but I don't agree with it. For one, the Chaos Gods are amazingly large and powerful in the warp, but they only hold reign over things very close to their concepts. That's why there are also minor Chaos gods, Chaos gods of Order, etc. I cannot believe that they suffuse the entirety of the Warp - this is not 40k, where the Warp is nothing but corrupting, horrible shit throughout. WFB has the winds of magic that are relatively safe, and a huge pantheon of gods - trying to make them all overlapping aspects with Chaos Gods sounds like trying to bring 40k into WFB, which is stupid because of the major differences between the settings.

Nurgle also has nothing to do with Shallya's hope, and bending over backwards to justify it as being related to despair is laughable. It would be far easier to relate hope to Tzeentch, because hope is literally his domain - everything from simple hope for a better tomorrow to complex schemes to elevate yourself up through the ranks of nobility is something that should feed Tzeentch, by your argument. But you don't acknowledge that, and the chart does not acknowledge the overlap between Shallya and Khorne you think is distinct. And remember, Shallyan priests recognize that they can't possibly save everyone and try to ignore the big picture in favor as helping as many of the few that they can - this does not sound like Slaanesh's perfection or obsession, and Shallyans also go out of their way for an ascetic and humble lifestyle, which is different from Slaanesh's central tenant of desire just on principle.

>>50945344
I like to think of it as close to Hindusim where basically most of the gods are various aspects and avatars of the main gods, but still individual.