>the BBEG should be met within _ sessions. Whats the

>>50839804
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s no BBEG. I>>50839804
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t's nothi>>50839804
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on of stori>>50839804
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covered at the end of the campaign.

thoughts?

>>50839922
Anon are you okay? Do I need to call someone?

>>50839939
Call the exterminator. And tell him to bring incendiary bullets.

That poor lad spend too much time on /x/ clearly.

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>>50839956
Did someone say exterminator?

>having a BBEG
This isn't World of Zeldacraft, kids.

>>50839804
I've always found that the best BBEG's are NPC's who end up becoming reoccurring characters and naturally become the antagonist over time or due to player actions.
Example
In my current game introduced the party to a pompous entitled noblemen who annoyed the shit out of them with his meddling in there affairs. Those drove one of the players to beat the shit out of him and the party captured him and now are deciding what to do with him. Regardless what they decide either the noble or a member of his family is going to become the groups antagonist now.

>>50840103
I introduced the BBEG first session when the party went to talk to the Not!Vatican about how he has the ability to bring large amounts of dead back to life theough necromancy and could make life easier for the living through making the dead fight in wars, do manual labor, and live eternally.

He was turned away at once for even suggesting it and was angry and scorned for their "lack of vision" and said he would prove to them what he was capable of.

The party was up next sitting behind the guy in the room. He stormed out angrily as they threatened to excommunicate his ass.

The next day it was said that he disappeared overnight and by the next week people were discussing how he had completely taken over a small neighboring civil war wracked country with his undead overnight which the Not!Vatican excommunicated him for.

He became the antagonist for a seperate plot reason but I introduced him early.

>>50840183
>I introduced the BBEG first session when the party went to talk to the Not!Vatican
Meant to say when HE went to talk.

>>50839804
The answer is X

It really depends on the game you're going for, personally I like introducing the big bad long after the players are knee deep in the big fight. Around the games halfway point.

Some GMs like the first thing the players see to be the big bad, making him the target for the whole game. Give them a reason to hate him.

Some like to make it so there's no sign of a big bad, all of these are "random" events, only to divulge the puppet master towards thea end.

It's really up to what kind of game and pace you're going for.

Also as a forever GM that's stupid to give a session timer because what you planned to be 2 sessions turns out to be 8 because players be players

I like to make it so they hear of/see the effects of the BBEG before actually seeing him. For me this usually happens in session 2 or 3, and then a couple sessions later will they actually see him

You should plan out where the BBEG will be at certain points in time as he goes about his business. That may change as he reacts to things going on in the world around him, mainly due to the actions of the players. The PCs may meet him if they choose to go somewhere he is, knowingly or unknowingly.

You know...there's nothing after death, don't you?

>>50839804
Depends on the setting, really.

>>50840103
This. Though it my last campaign, it wasn't even a recurring character.

>A few sessions in, the party accidentally released thousands of demon ghosts. These pulled the strings behind every encounter that was harder than it should be. Towards the end, in an effort to seal the ghosts, the party was collecting magical orbs. One orb was in a paladin's life work: an ice sculpture (this was in a whole town of paladins). Under the advice and support of a succubus, one of the druids cut into the statue to get the orb & fled town in the night. The sculptor paladin, a generic NPC that I had named Brian (A suitable, humble name for the least adventurous paladin in the city, right?) chased after the footprints leaving the city. Once he caught up, the party tried to talk him down from violence... with the absolute worst charisma rolls I have ever seen. They rolled so many times. So many single digits. The paladim attacked & fell. The warlock grappled the Brian to restrain him so they could continue the horrible persuasion rolls. At this time, the Fiendish patron gave Brian power. This & that happened & Brian escaped. He conquered 2 pyramids planted by the party & turned them into a flying fortress. He started working for the demon ghosts to help destroy the world, since he had nothing left to live for. And so the party had created their own villain: Death Knight Brian - Destroyer of Worlds.

I really wished I gave him a more intimidating name than Brian...

>>50839804

The very first time the players drop a quest.

> the PCs accept a quest from a poor farmer to rescue his wife who was abducted by cultists on the road
> the players get distracted by a random encounter with goblins, decide to hunt down the goblins back to their nest, proceed on to the next town and forget about the farmer entirely.
> the PCs go on to have many adventurers, that range to far off and fantastic lands.
> But at some point, a sense of doom seems to be following them. All of the places the PCs have left are ending up destroyed or burnt down. At first it seems like a hook for a new adventure, but there doesn't seem to be any plan or pattern to it other than every place the PCs know ends up destroyed.
> Until, one day, in the middle of a tense confrontation with some evil wizard in an ancient dungeon, a solitary figure kicks in the door.
> He is covered in scars, and bedecked in all of the various magical items and artifacts that the players have left behind or lost track of, with armor and clothing made from the hides of beasts that look strangely familiar.
> The grizzled man points an accusing finger at the party, ignoring the evil wizard, and screams
> "WHERE'S MY WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFE?"

>>50839804
It varies. Some stories have no single BBEG, but just a series of trials that form an arc. Sometimes, the state of things is what needs to be overcome, and it isn't just one character's fault.

>>50839804
There isn't a right number, very much depends on the campaign

>>50839804
That's not how a "BBEG" works. You must be thinking of a villain, rather than a BBEG.

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>>50840103
As a player I've only created my own BBE once. It all started with one tag along cleric sent with us by the orzove church (dnd in MTGs ravnica setting) we were raiding a borros garison after many of their strongest had left en mass via airship. Long story short the cleric trys to blow our stealthy entrance by being an incurable fuckwit and then hits me with a hold monster when i made the slightest move to stop him. Basically our dm was fucking with us to start with but my character, a big dumb half vamp gnoll, took it rather personally and butchered the guy. We get in and out with the loot and back to the church. They magically take all but one peice of loot from each of us when the agreement was for us to get half, claim it's cause they need it to rez cleric fuckwit. This angers the party and the wizard unleashes a hellstorm of fire while i hack and chop most of the clerics to bits. Find fuckwits brother and due to stupid and bad rolls i think its really Him. Proceed to partially devour him and pike his remains outside the now burning church to send a message. This angers the church so badly i become ravnica's fifth most wanted overnight. Get caught 'off camera' cause i couldn't make it one week, beaten with silver, bound and about to be handed over to the borros. The party comes together like never before and saves my big dumb ass. Later after several cleric/paladin kill squads fail to bring me down they get the law involved. Argue my case and fail miserably, rogue cleverly demands trial by combat. He and i duo against 29 clerics of varying levels, all bothers/close family of the OG cleric fuckwit, whom i got to kill again in a catharticly brutal manner. After all that my bounty goes to #1, above even the great demon rakdos and anarchist leader boborgamos the giant. This due solly to the orzove throwing tons of money at the problem because i Really pissed them off. Take pride in being ravnicas most wanted and a cleric level, you are what you eat

If you have a main antagonist planned in the first session then you're railroading your players.

>>50844108
kek

>>50843436
That's so badass and hilarious at the same time!

>>50839804

>"Met?"
Two is fine, but consider all the ways said meeting could go.

In a murder mystery, the killer is supposed to be the person you actually like, the one you don't even want to think of as a suspect. Everyone else has a motive, everyone else is just a terrible person who could kill if given the opportunity. Except for one person who is normal and helpful, and just plain giddy like they just literally "got away with murder!"

They had a problem, better known as a "motive," and they fixed it! Happy days are here again, and they just want to hug everybody. They don't hug, because that might be creepy, but they'll be nicest normal person they can be because of their good mood!

It is the kind of mood where you sing with the birds and wave hello to squirrels. You don't even step on ants, and that's where the BBEG should be when low-level characters first encounter them. By all means, the second session after one basic session to get the players used to the game and playing together.

Someone mentioned how BBEG is more of a videogame trope, but consider how some videogames have introduced the BBEG. I like the Disk One Boss, particularly where the REAL villain strikes the killing blow. Nothing pisses off players like someone else stealing their victory and XP!

To make it truly universal, make it seem like diplomacy might be possible, then kill the Disk One Boss before they get a chance. This not only means the murderhobos lose their kill, but the truly evil villain doesn't even try talking first. Pure and simple murder, and it lets you use the another form of evil, the hated betrayal.

Start with a friendly NPC who wants to help the heroes on their quest, the standard guide with skills and knowledge they lack. Try to make him likeable, and give yourself a few sessions to really understand what your players will like. The unexpected return of a beloved NPC adds to this, as does their "death," and rebirth as a villain.

>>50839804

I usually go:
>Session 1: Introduce player characters, some basic establishing stuff, "getting to know you"
>Session 2: Simple conflict that adds a minor complication on established formulate
>Session 3: Begin introducing the first elements of the BBEG, though probably not them as an individual. Maybe agents of their organisation, or the impact of some of their actions.

>>50839804
Meh, a lot of the time I don't even use BBEGs.

Sometimes the player's own darker impulses are the true BBEG.

>>50839804
My last campaign had several different BBEGs, most of which we'd never really seen until the session we fought them.


1. A super demon who wanted to destroy the world or something. First mentioned about halfway through the campaign. First seen, fought, and killed in the final session.
2. The evil emperor. First seen, fought, and killed in a single session halfway through the campaign.
3. A mob boss who the party was tasked with dealing with a few sessions in. Eventually got sidelined after our boss told us to focus on other stuff. Revealed in the penultimate session to be several different people, who we never got to see. They summoned a tarrasque while we were busy following orders and never got caught.

There were a lot of things wrong with that campaign. If it weren't for how much fun the other players were, I probably would've quit at some point.

>>50839922
so much (you)

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>>50839804
Though the definition of BBEG has evolved, they waited 10 years before finally meeting him. Though the true technical BBEG was met at the end of the prelude sessions.

>>50839804
It depends on the villain and the campaign I'm running. I've run campaigns where in the PCs have literally never met the person they're fighting even as they tear apart everything he's worked so hard to build. The best part is that they could've gone and confronted him at any time but both sides wanted to keep it as a game of proxy wars and espionage.

>>50839804
we've had a bunch of sessions but they still haven't met mine, though this is more due to how the thing manages his projects. They know he exists, they know he has a plan, they know who he's involved with, but they probably won't ever meet him till the very end, not because of dramatic reveal, but because the guy's managing the events from so far away he's practically not in the region they are.

>>50839804
its been 3 years and i still havent shown them the bbeg. his "minions" make up an empire, his most trusted have been absent, but his reach is ever present even if the players dont know it most times.

>>50848780
>Make everyone suspicious
>Except one person who stands out as too happy

Do not do this, your murderer could not be more obvious.

Our DM has just been either running us through mines or killing mysterious fogs of werewolves, we haven't been introduced to what could possibly be any cohesive BBEG yet.

>>50839804
Surely this depends on the setting and the game? For a heavily narrative driven game perhaps it's good to have a recurring BBEG where the players can build up a healthy dislike for him/her. Yet if it's something which is based on investigation, involves conspiracies and such, revealing the true nature of the enemy might be better served later? There shouldn't be a hard and fast rule of X sessions before the BBEG appears.

I can get what OP is saying, which is to have the game focused very clearly on what the enemy is, but saying 'meet within 2 sessions or else' seems a bit silly.

>>50853862
That's not a BBEG then. A BBEG is specifically a final boss that appears behind the apparent one, ie. Thanos in the first Avengers movie.

>>50839804
But there's no BBEG in my campaign, I am GMing for 3 friends who play a band of 2 childhood friends that adventure from town to town doing whatever odd job there is, and that adopted (for the addition) the third player during one of their shenanigans.

It's mostly chill adventuring. Barbarian, dwarf ranger and leader type warrior bros slice of life

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>>50839922
You alright, anon?

I have the players meet the BBEG within the first hour of gameplay.

I do the whole JRPG route where they leave town for a quick errand, get back and everything is fucking smashed, the village is burning, a few small enemies are there to kill, and the BBEG is in the center of town claiming a long hidden piece of magical gear.

He then ignores them and walks out because he is so far beyond them that they aren't worth his attention at all.

>>50853915
BBEG just refers to the primary antagonist. It's not some secret power behind the apparent boss.

OP wants to reveal his BBEG as a recurring antagonist throughout the entire campaign, to introduce a primary antagonist with a depth of character built up across many sessions. Just because there isn't some alien/demon/whatever pulling his strings doesn't mean that the campaign doesn't have a BBEG.

>>50854079
Except that's wrong. The primary antagonist is the villain, emphasis on "the". You might be getting confused with the "Big Bad", a term originally for the current villain of a season of a television show, which ultimately lead to the "Big Bad Evil Guy" used in fanfiction to refer to the power behind the Big Bad.

>>50839804

Depends on the campaign etc. I mean, some campaigns don't even have villains in a true sense.

My current BBEG was revealed immediately, but the party had newbie adventuring problems to deal with. They didn't really understand the threat until they hashed through some local issues first and experienced it first-hand. Makes for a compelling narrative but the setup is very long.

>>50854160
I have no idea what you're talking about, and nobody I know ever uses BBEG in that context.