Horus Heresy General /hhg/

>>50700281
What rats? What are you talking about?
I like the filename.

So, when will the 30k rules for SoS be due ?

>>50700356

When Inferno comes out.

So February.

>>50700412
No chance of WD rules beforehand, like the Custodians got ?

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>childhood is when you idolize Autilion Skorr
>adulthood is when you realize Dynat makes more sense

>>50700454
Whaaaaat nonsense dude. I was trying to make a Coils list with Dynat and two Saboteurs, but turns out I'm leaning more for Skorr now. Even if he's an asshole so obnoxious other traitors go loyalist at the sight of him.

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>>50700450
Those weren't the final version anyway

>mfw their weapons are still AP3 and marines have better weapons than the holy armory of emperor himself.

In all seriousness, if their weapons still suck I vote we just houserule(communityrule?) them better. Because it's ridiculous they were anything but AP2 in ANY version of the rules.

I'm looking into properly starting a heresy army. I say properly, because I have previously bought a lot of chinese taghmata (like 3000 points worth) because they look cool.

I now want to start a marine army with proper forgeworld products because even though I think the prices are stupidly high I want to support them, more so now than ever because I've been talking to some of the forgeworld guys and they've been helping me out - I would much rather start a small army and build it slowly so I can work on it with love and care than get everything at once and lose all motivation. I'm thinking world eaters because I really like their colour scheme, I love the dice FW sells and I've been watching battle reports and they look a lot of fun.

What's a good starting point for an army, nothing too big to start with because money (though I do have lots of super heavies I can bring in if required for larger points.)
>also do you need both the £32 red books to play or just one?

>>50700454
>childhood is when you idolize the alpha legion
>adulthood is when you realize any other legion whatsoever makes more sense
Fixed that for you.

>>50700530

completely fluffy and true to the actual Paramar campaign, Dynat with Armored Spearhead is just so fucking good

>>50700454
Dynat is the most versatile praetor you could wish for. Besides the army-wide buff and the excellent warlord trait, he also has a cognis-signum which makes him great in a plasma support squad. Comes with a phospex grenade for when something nasty gets close. Also no pushover in CC for sure.

No eternal warrior though, but that might have been too much

>>50700550
>Childhood is idolizing any HH faction or character
>Adulthood is realizing it's simply a toy-soldier game played with dice.
I don't want to grow up.

>>50700570
I realized Dynat is meant for non-AL RoWs, versatile yet powerful like a good AL should be. I simply postponed a list with him, but I was indeed thinking an armoured force Paramar style.
Thing is, I don't know what is worthy of deep striking on its own: a unit cannot confer the deepstrike rule to its transport, this isn't flying Land Raider times ft Blood Angels.

>>50700550

Hi AWG how's the brink of death looking today?

>>50700619

P L A S M A


Think of it as a free drop pod for any sized unit

>>50700624
What the fuck are you on about?

>>50700659

Bakersfield in winter is pretty depressing but don't give up hope yet.

Or at least make sure to buy enough rope

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>>50700647
But they'll be die. Is a forlone hope the only logical conclusion?

>>50700676
What? Why the fuck are you telling people in /hhg/ to commit suicide? I'm not AWG, and even if I was that's a shitty way to behave. I hope you get the carnacs, because you clearly don't deserve a quality thread if this is how you behave when someone makes a joke. You monumental cunt.

>>50700707
Eh, 10 Lernaean, or 10 terminators with combi-plasma have pretty good odds of surviving.

Personally I also like deep-striking my Saboteur with combi-melta to make sure he aces two vehicles in a single turn.

>>50700647
https://youtu.be/gNrEzQwPX_I

Ayyy

>>50700724

You're not fooling anyone.

>>50700724
Dont let him trigger, you are bigger.

>>50700724
>I hope you get the carnacs
Motherfucking keked
>because you clearly don't deserve a quality thread
Heeey, I'm also here. I just wanted tactica help, why must I suffer alongside that one?
Also, I tried finding that Dr. House vid of him saying "I was expecting you, Cuddy" each time someone opened the door like three times before the actual Cuddy stepped in. Couldn't find it.
>>50700747
>I also like deep-striking my Saboteur
I thought they could only ever arrive via Outflank. As for the termies, or anyone really, I guess combi-meltas would be fine since artillery cannot get Armoured Ceramite, and Dynat allows the reroll of the scatter dice.

>>50700676
make sure to have a roof sturdy enough to support you as well

>>50700768

Nope saboteurs must start in reserve and they naturally have outflank, so that's the default option, but deep strike works just fine too

>>50700768
Blow up dem tonks.

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>>50700752
> P u r a s u m a a a a
What the fuck did I just watch? Why the fuck can't I stop listening to that song? What the hell did you do to me?!
I bet this is one of the Alpha legion memetic agents, just like one of my Black library novels.

>>50700582
I actually like thinking of it as a game mode than anything. Feels good to discuss it and treat it like any other good form of media, and I don't have to be an autistic fuck all the time.

It's all a game, one I care about and have tons of fun with. It's keeping the inner child alive and awake and taking some dullnes away from the daily grind.

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>>50700836
>and I don't have to be an autistic fuck all the time.
It's like you don't enjoy your anger or something :^)

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>>50700811
I state truths, nothing else. If that makes you want to buy it, that's up to you.

>>50700707

Hey feel free to melta shit too, you're pretty reliable at getting behind vehicles with the reroll

Rapiers are majority Infantry units, could deep strike those for some god awful reason

>>50700936
>not deepstriking 3 quad mortar rapiers behind a knight and killing it with sicknasty shatter shell noscopes
its like you ar casul or something

>>50700936
I thought about this one, but then I remembered they cannot do much the turn they arrive, since they don't have Relentless, as >>50700967 is forgetting.

Also, Rapiers killing that Mastodon was a statistical unicorn, get over it.

>>50700914
Yeah I'm gonna go read their fluff in the HH books again, I only skimmed it.

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>>50701000
Go forth with confidence.

>>50700828
The game is Goemon for N64, the guy is a fortune teller named "Purasma". His catch phrase is his name and saying "pu pu pu pu" as the begin of plasma in the intervalls he is not telling you your fortune.

Lots of good childhood memories and amazing muisc,kek.

>Also , Purasma is your key word.Good luck Mr sleeper agent.

>>50700991
i know they dont have relentless, thats what the noscope part is meant to represent

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>>50701032
>>Also , Purasma is your key word.Good luck Mr sleeper agent.
I feel itchy all over, please stop doing this to me

>>50701043
In that case, deep-striking 10 lascannon totting heavy support marines sounds more epic

>>50701000
Not your pal, but the deepest lore here is that ferrus and his sons were like cast iron. Fucking resilient but to rigid, Fulgrim and Horus betraying him made him snap and got him killed. Whats left is the repaired, cyberfied version.

I think I read a quote that had him talk about the future they were working for and that he noticed how the Great Crusade dehumanised him and his men (Flesh is Weak), but he said that this should be remedied best after finishing the great work.

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>>50700914

Makes you think about whether or not the Emperor considered how the hand off of entire legions of super invincible space warrior ninja marines to individuals who might not give the fate of humankind much consideration could ultimately result in destructive consequences on a galactic scale

>>50701123
>"They are not my hands. This fact is forgotten by my brothers - inexplicably, it has always seemed to me. The hands are strong, to be sure, and have created great things for us all, but they are not mine. And that counts for something. They forget that the silver on my arms comes from a beast that I vanquished. It is the mark of a great evil that I ended, and yet it persists within me... I would struggle to remove it now... I will not remove the silver from my flesh because I have learned to depend on it. The fault is with my mind. I rely on the augmentation given to me by my metal gauntlets, so much so that the flesh beneath them is now little more than a distant memory... A day will come when I will strip it from me, lest I lose the power to master myself forever. Already my Legion's warriors replace their shield hands with metal in my honour, and so they too are learning to doubt the natural strength of their bodies. They must be weaned off this practice before it becomes a mania for them. Hatred of what is natural, of what is human, is the first and greatest of the corruptions. So I record it here: when the time comes, I will strip my hands of their unnatural silver. I will instruct my Legion to recant their distrust of the flesh. I will turn them away from the gifts of the machine and bid them relearn the mysteries of flesh, bone and blood. When my fathers' Crusade is over, this shall be my sacred task. When the fighting is done, I shall cure my Legion and myself. For if fighting is all there is, if we may never pause to reflect on what such devotion to strength is doing to us, then our compulsion will only grow. Already I see the madness that path leads to, and so I shall excise the silver from my hands. In doing so I shall weaken myself and my sons, but nonetheless it must be done. The hands are strong, and have created great things, but they are not mine."
>>50701124
Like the Sons of Horus? :^)

>>50701123

He is a forgesmith. He saw the Great Crusade for what it was - an ongoing project to forge a piece of brittle shit into the greatest thing ever. And then suddenly theres some flareups in the project, doesn't mean you just ditch the thing and move on to the next project. You keep going and try to turn a bad thing into a good thing, because thats what a good smith does.

And then his fellow smiths shivved him in the back because fuck blacksmithy.

>>50701026
What was the Great Crusade era Iron Hand's warcry? I only found "the flesh is weak", whic is pist heresy.

>>50701123
Personal opinion, but any legion who had their primarch get stomped right in their faces would fall apart save world eaters and alpha legion, because they don't give a shit for different reasons. I think that is a convenient metaphor applied in hindsight. I also think its BL shit.

>>50701157

Sons of Horus clearly were pro-Earth, which is why Horus had to go to the great trouble of getting all of the pro-Earth Wolves killed.

>>50701168

Iron Hands lost their Primarch, and then soonafter lost almost all of their Great Clan leaders when they got together to try to avenge their Primarch. So they lost their head leadership twice and basically fell into civil disorder for the remainder of the heresy, with hot shots taking matters into their own hands.

>>50701124
Putting horus in charge was his consideration, as horus was best suited to managing the various retards without making them freak out.

The problem is horus became a retard himself after the emperor left him to his own devices, which is unfortunate but ultimately not something he could have predicted.

>ACHTSHUALLY IN MASTER OF MA-
no shut up

anyways it's space hulk time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXEauLpvc6I

>>50701210

I've got it preloaded waiting for me after work. Is it any good?

>>50701233
yeah

I'm easily pleased, though.

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>>50701158
Nothing went as planned, anon, see pic related.
>>50701166
I hear they like to steal other legions' warcries.

>>50701157
Best Primarch,where is it from?

>>50701158
How did Pert and Ferrus get along, by the way?

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>>50701210

>tfw still waiting for the hard book copy in June 2017

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>>50701168
>Personal opinion, but any legion who had their primarch get stomped right in their faces would fall apart save world eaters and alpha legion
We would certainly have a sensible chuckle.

>>50701268
I don't think Horus!Kirby is an effective Warmaster.

>>50701168
I guess, I sort of like the IH bit.
Same with Super Dad Horus who gets introduced. I honestly have more problems with them being 3meters tall.

>>50701258

I only read Forgeworld books, so I think Pert and Ferrus didn't interact much?

>>50701291

Horus!Kirby would have killed the Emperor

>>50701268

Oh now that's just adorable

>>50701258
Pert wanted to know if Ferrus's hands allowed him to sense the Eye of Terror to see if he wasn't the only one.
>>50701310
But he has no arms! And even if he does they're stubby little arms! How can he hold Worldbreaker with no fingers?

>>50701291
Horus Luperkirby absorbed the powers of chaos. He was the supreme being.
>>50701310
This, both of them.

>>50701255
I dud call Iron Fathers War Smiths last thread, but even I know not to touch the IWs war cry.

>>50701287
It's not really the same. The iron hands literally failed. Perturbo turn coated. If perturbo was the master of siege and at the siege of terra literally failed to breached the walls and then was killed by dorn. You would have a comparable failure.

>>50701287

What a fucking badass. First thing he does is ram his disabled ship into another ship's ass. Second thing he does is play Minecraft. Last thing he does is scream obscenities from the bowels of a Mechanicum hellhole while he is being rebuilt into an absolute monster.

>>50701337
...what? Antenna arms?

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>>50701337

>Worldbreaker
>literally could not break the Inner Sanctum, let alone Terra

all hype

>>50701347
What are you on about ? The walls of the imperial palace got most definitely breached, they just needed a lot of time fighting through a palace the size of a continent.

And then Horus fucked it all up by goin "1v1 me bruh !"

>>50701412
>IF as in if that happened. Fuck sake.

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>>50701337
>Bitches don't know about my Worldbreaker flip
>>50701346
I'm just poking some fun bro :)
>>50701399
Whaaaaaaaaaaat. Deepest lore.
>After the webway project failed, the Emperor focused his efforts on fallback plan A.

>>50701412
>they just needed a lot of time
Time they didn't have, with the wolves and dangles coming in full strength from their deployments on the edges of known space.

Or, if you believe retcon library, the dangles and ultramarines coming (because the wolves have lost like 99% of their legion doing dumb shit that never happened in the original stories)

The siege failed. Horus' 1v1 me gambit was the only option he had to kill the emperor.

>>50701424
With the coming retconns I'm not sure what to believe anymore...

>>50701412
>And then Horus fucked it all up by goin "1v1 me bruh !"
All the loyalists were trying to reach Terra. After seeing the siege wasn't going as fast as he needed (duh, as if sieges were a fast affair) he decided for a quicker gambit.
I mean srsly, if Terra fell in a single decade that would have been damn fast.

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>>50701412
>>50701459
>>50701474

Didn't the siege take like 3 months before Horus saw the tide of incoming blue smurfs on the psychic radar and go fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck?

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>>50701442
No worries, just love.

>>50701412
Should he have waited for the Gillman and the Dank Angels to rip him even more assholes?

>People seem to forget that Space Marines get implanted additional onesin their armpits.

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>>50701371
>...what? Antenna arms?
I read Athena arms. She was the goddess of war, after all.

>>50701498
Sure. I mean, it was kind of a stalemate. The loyalists were indeed losing, but just not fast enough, and the SW, DA and UM were going to arrive and shit was going to go bad.
So Horus lowered the shields, and Emps, believing they wouldn't last long enough for the rest of the loyalists to arrive, took the bait.

They both died.

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Tactical squads in rhinos seem resilient enough to me, but are they killy?
Some anon said once that he considered Despoilers in Rhinos to be better than footslogging full squads (no ammo store defense line) because of the Sweep Advance chance.
Was he correct?

>>50701529

>Emps, believing they wouldn't last long enough for the rest of the loyalists to arrive, took the bait.

Is this new lore again? Emps clearly wanted to confront Horus and see for Himself how His greatest son fell, and had little to do with strategic need.

>>50701554
no, they arent killy, because they only have bolters and s4 at ws4
they exist to hold objectives and maybe fury of the legion someone

>>50701529
>and Emps, believing they wouldn't last long enough for the rest of the loyalists to arrive
The Emperor didn't know about the reinforcements. Horus deliberately blocked it so he'd take his bait. Otherwise the Emperor could have sat pretty in the palace and waited for Horus to get his balls punched off by two full legions.

At least, in the good fluff that's what happened.

>>50701554

All I can tell you is one time I saw an Invictarus squad deploying in turn 1 alongside a Rhino, and then a Fellglaive vaporized the entire Invictarus squad but the Rhino was fine.

>>50701464
I was just trying to say to the IW fan that if everything they had been trained to believe was proven wrong in an undeniable way, they would fold and the double down in a similar way. Perty going traitor why you were away, and then you have some siege is literally nothing compared to the core belief you've basically been indoctrinated into believe failing before your eyes.

>IH weakness intolerable
>IH failure is weakness
>IH Ferrus gets Stomped
>IH Ferrus was weak? Does not compute
>IH run PURE HATE.exe
>IH we lost agian? Does not compute
>IH Find weakness FIND it!
>IH The flesh is weak
>IH Iron hands stronk flesh is weak. Give me a dreadnought techfaggot

>>50701554
20 rapid fire bolter shots still hurt. You just gotta pick the right targets, and have them stay inside the metal boxes untill the time to strike.
And gang up on a unit of course.

>>50701580

I thought Malcador and Dorn told Emps to stay in the fucking castle, but Emps was like no this shit ends now.

>>50701580
>by two full legions.
None of the legions were full strength at this point Anon.

>>50701565
>>50701580
Oh He didn't know? Ok that makes more sense.

>>50701593
>20 rapid fire bolter shots still hurt
Nah. I think you need 9 shots to kill a single marine.
20*(2/3)*(1/2)*(1/3) = 20/9 = 2.222

>>50701502
Would not wrestle her.

>Judo with girls can net you some dates, funny enouh.

>>50701586

It would make more sense if Iron Hands completely lost faith in humanity circa End Times (and end up looking to Necrons for some form of salvation). Iron Hands basically got curbstomped during the opening hours of the Heresy because "first world problems and Chaos is the cure" and humanity hasn't really gotten off the corruption bandwagon ever since.

>>50701636

Do not discount the reality-warping power of dicehammer.

>>50701636
It matters if that marine is part of a heavy weapon team for example. But the main part is that with the rhinos it becomes more easy to gather 2-3 tactical squads and have them all fire on a single, isolated unit.

But that might be my inner Alpharius talking

>>50701657
Why would they look to xenos? Literally more weakness. They'd rather kill themselves.

Reading through the IH fluff again, I remember why I didn't like them. Anon glazed over it last thread.

>>50701598
In the old fluff, they were.

Prospero happened before the heresy broke out. The wolves and dark angels didn't take part in the heresy proper because of Horus' deception (much like how he lured the ultramarines away). He didn't expect to spend much time cracking earth because of his vast advantage in numbers, which is why he only bothered to pin the most troublesome legion in place.

>>50701595
If we're talking about modern HH fluff, I don't fucking know. They keep changing small details about the siege.

But in the old fluff, the whole shield lowering thing was a ruse to distract and kill the emperor before he could realize help was on the way.

>>50701704

>Why would they look to xenos? Literally more weakness.

(Old) IH mentality is basically "everything is weak, everyone should be metal boxes, if everyone were metal boxes then everything would be fine." Necrons aren't an avenue to salvation, but their long lived existence would have surely been an inspiration for IH corruption (before recent efforts to reform the Chapter).

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>>50701636
>Relying on math when only faith in the dice gods will save you on the table.

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>>50701738
I do like them hating weakness. As in, it's servitor conversion for the regiments that fail them.

>>50701586
I love the HATE! RoW the hands got, the reverse of Head of the Gorgon.

https://youtu.be/EddX9hnhDS4

>>50701691

Generally speaking, you want Tactical Rhinos to go around lobbing nades at lone vehicles (like Whirlwind Scorpius) or securing objectives anyway. Unless you only run kill em all games with no objectives, but thats no fun.

>>50701554
FotL are they slightly killy, Despoilers also slightly killy. But they exist to score. It's a losing fight for both types engaging each other or anything else alone.

If you want killy compulsory troops then Assault Marines are the way to go. More power weapons and packs.

Tacs in rhinos are the golden standard. Usually gives them an extra turn to survive.

>>50701704
Why do you not like them?

>Also, he was a Teeran recruiter chargedto draw in the local techno barbwrians

>https://youtu.be/EW9ztsayiSA

>thoughts?

>>50701772

>If you want killy compulsory troops then Assault Marines are the way to go. More power weapons and packs.

Reminds me of a LegioN Wargaming video I watched between IW and EC. IW fielded a Fellblade and a bunch of tacs on one flank and a horde of assault marines with whatshisprettyface basically overran the position and ran up to the Fellblade in the face. Assault marines should be used more if they're really that effective.

Speaking of breachers, they need a bonus rule.

No way does a marine just take a shot on the chin because it's AP4 or worse. Even if he uses the shield and fails it, what happens? Does the shot go through the shield and nanomachines in the armor go "Oh the shot penetrated the shield, better open a hole in the armor so the shot can kill the guy. I mean the armor has a goo chance to tank it but fuck it. It went through the shield."

>>50701795

Not him, but IH fluff is kind of boring without Ferrus and his Great Clan friends shitting moons on planetary installations, and Mechanicum fluff has superseded IH's main schtick as the robotic monstrosities of the Imperium.

>>50701838

>Even if he uses the shield and fails it, what happens?

Dorn and termie friends avenge their comrades with nonstop HoW death star spam.

>>50701821
Muh Eidolon.

They are pretty great, their special RoW with hit and run is steroids for EC that use Palatine Blades with spears and shriekers.

>>50701838
Lay down the pipe, anon, you're high.

>>50701838
What if breacher shields gave a tougness boost that doesn't affect ID tresh hold ?

>>50701772
Are power weapons really needed on assault marines ? I thtought they can bury their choice targets under the sheer number of attacks anyway.

>>50701843
True, thats why I complained a bit.
Angry murderbots is post Ferrus and we have stuff mostly from the post Ferrus point so I am rhyming around to find more than "lol remorseless metal men".

Key would probably their simmering anger/hatred which is probably in their gene seed.

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>>50701772
>>50701821
You guys make a good point. Planning and positioning are more powerful than mere kill probabilities. I will think more.
>>50701838
Drink some water, then think about testudo formations from either the Fists or that ZM RoW.

>>50701900
Wait a sec, did he inflitrate his Contemptor?

I really like the story though, thank you.

>>50701554
>Some anon said once that he considered Despoilers in Rhinos to be better than footslogging full squads (no ammo store defense line) because of the Sweep Advance chance.
>Was he correct?

IT DEPENDS!

AL and RG can infiltrate 20 man blobs and having 40+ marines on your doorstep isnt something to take lightly, NL with Terror Assault can also make them work as they'll have a 4+ cover in the open and run up to 7'' which means they'll be in mid-field by turn 2 most likely. If you dont have any of that shit then its better to either run them as Rhino squads to go around taking objectives, run them as 20 man squads each with a Bastion fortification to move them up to the middle of the board on turn 1 (Or whenever) or give them a Vigilator and outflank them if you want to use them offensively.

Ultimately you take tacticals to take on objectives, they're not particularly killy unless you play WE but are a bit more versatile than Assault Squads as they shoot ok and fight ok but move slower. My point is they are troops, dont expect them to do crazy shit and dont fill all your points into them.

>>50701900
That story is glorious.

>>50701969
I thought he said the only things he deployed normally were his contemptor and scorpius whirlwind, pretty much because they lack Infiltrate or LA rules to begin with.

>>50701972
>run them as 20 man squads each with a Bastion fortification
I can't bring forts, anon. I must bring DOWN the forts, actually.

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>>50701969
Nah that mission had that weird deployment where one side gets a circle in the middle and the other gets 12'' on both short table edges. There's not much distance between deployment zones at certain points.

>tfw you see your battle report resurface

>>50701972
I wish NL were cooler, because Terror squads with their Row sound amazing.

One could probably play one of the loose warbands and give them a slightly variant scheme, since Kurze was to loony to care.

>I believe at least one of the lost Primarchs mutated horribly, Magnus and Kurze are a sign it happened and Betrayal and Massacre hint at horrible stuff.

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>>50702022
Dude I watched this movie yesterday. And yes, I save battle reports that manage to be awesome and/or fluffy, like this one, pretty much the other side of the coin.

>>50701997
>>50702022
Oh , thank you.

Also "For the Emperor!"

>>50702050
Noice.

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>>50702050
That's quite the coincidence. You'd almost think there's some deep mind indoctrination going on or something ...
Not that that is a thing. Neither am I Alpharius.

>>50701868
highermind.jpg

>>50701889
They need something. Even if the invul was always 5+. Literally anything that makes it not

>Marine is taking fire from bolters
>Decides between using his armor or shield
>exposes body to shots, armor fails, dies

or

>Marine is taking fire from bolters
>Decides between using his armor or shield
>uses shield, shot goes through only the shield, dies

>>50701900
Shouldn't need a RoW to fix a unit. I'm looking at you too 3rd Company Elite. Another example of a band-aid.

I've been running numbers on this for a while now. tl;dr these are the current thoughts after crunching some OP versions and whybother versions.

>Reroll armor saves against non-blast and non-template wounds.
Would make ICs with 2+ susceptible to low AP blasts and templates. Usually you need AP2 to kill them effectively anyway.

The problem with this one is breacher sarge's with 2+. Could just remove the option for them.That's be the easiest fix.

>Reroll armor and cover saves at -2
Basically for the sake of game balance vs some 'realistic' common sense. IE "use your fucking shield against stuff other than plasma ffs." Would make them slightly better, but not as much as the first option. Plus things in AA would only reroll at 4+. Sounds complicated but if you extend it to other shields like storm shields that have a 3++ you wont get stuck at 2+ rerolling at 3+. The max would always be a 4+.

>Take invul save from the shield as a 'ward' save like FnP/take invul after failed armor/cover. Make boarding shields flat 5++.
Basically just layering the shield save. Effectively the same as the second option, but I worry about extending them to other shields like storm shields. Rerolling at 3+ is pretty stronk.

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>>50702173
>You'd almost think there's some deep mind indoctrination going on or something ...
>Not that that is a thing. Neither am I Alpharius.
It all depends on what items you happen yo find: the spear, the rifle, the batton or the bombs.

>>50701889
>Are power weapons really needed on assault marines ? I thtought they can bury their choice targets under the sheer number of attacks anyway.
And when some of the attacks eliminate an armor save thats even better

>>50701598
Dark Angels were pretty close, and UM being the largest would have nearly full strength regular legion as well

>>50702306

UM were reduced to less than half after Calth, which happened right after Isstvan

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>>50702237
>Rerolling at 3+ is pretty stronk.
Boarding shields confer a 6++ that becomes 5++ if two or more models are in base contact.
Armour saves from ranged attacks may be rerolled, but the reroll is passed on a 5+ instead. This cannot be used against ranged attacks that ignore power armour, and normal saves are taken instead (cover or invulns).

Now we would get the problems of:
A) Perhaps it's too powerful.
B) Footslogger tacticals lose all reason to be.

Still, I like Boarding shields. Marines being 2.1 m tall they behave more like mantlets than actual shields, they're basically holding a power shielded plasteel door.

>>50702323
150 000 is still more than twice the DG, and more than the SoHs at that point.

>>50702323
UM size preheresy was 250,000. According to Tempest they lost 120,000 on Faith and left 40,000 on Calth (note: they eventually evacuated them mall gradually)
That gives us 90,000, which even factoring in shadow crusade rapid recruiting would get them to standard legion size

>>50702347

M8 that's after Calth in the beginning of the heresy, by the Siege the Ultramarines were way, way less than even this.

They made 16 successor chapters for the 2nd founding. 16,000 UM's survived the Heresy.

>>50702333
What about
>choose facing at start of enemy shooting phase
>counts as AV 10 or 11 for all shooting attacks coming from that angle

the 5++ in CC is already decent enough

>>50702333
>siege manlets

Does it make them T3?

>>50702387
>trying to marry pre-black library retcon fluff and post-black library retcon fluff together
don't

They made sixteen successor chapters when the legions were still capped at around 10k marines.

>>50702387
I thought they had 23 Second Founding chapters - but remember, that happened after the Scouring. After the Siege of Terra there are still 9 years of bloody warfare.

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>>50702389
>>counts as AV 10 or 11 for all shooting attacks coming from that angle
Ño
>>50702417
I said mantlets. As in, those things are more portable cover than a hand shield.

>>50702387
Didn't just now we hear about the Fists Exemplar? There were way more survivors than mere 20~ish chapters, but yeah, lots less than former legion strenght.

I'm trying to find that excerpt about how the notion that taitor legions' numbers always going down was incorrect, but I can't find it.

There's some speculation that the Horus Heresy was part of the Emperor's plan... unlike the Thunder Warriors, the Astartes were too numerous and powerful to have the Custodes dispose of them (hm, no wonder they were called the Custodian Guard...).

What wasn't part of the plan was for Horus to get Magnus quasi-killed, since he was supposed to sit on the Golden Throne. (None of this is confirmed in BL stuff, just hinted at, so it isn't necessarily spoilers.)

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>>50702333
>This cannot be used against ranged attacks that ignore power armour, and normal saves are taken instead (cover or invulns).
you dont need that extra line, you cant reroll something you never rolled in the first place.

Also them only using it against shooting doesnt make sense either. We face the "Oh, its only a pipe, I'll just let my armor take-" *dies* scenario. For the HEUGE shields it can, basically a tower shield you cant use well up close due to weight. But boarding shields are more like a scutum than mantlet

>A) Perhaps it's too powerful.
With the high amount of low AP being the most effective way to kill marines the only they'll really be rerolling against general small arms. Then if you had to make it essentially not Tac Marines+ you can add a drawback. Like bulky, and additional -1 to running/sweeps.

>B) Footslogger tacticals lose all reason to be.
They should only be footslogging if they're above 10. Otherwise be in a rhino or sitting in the home-field scoring an objective or something. Even then it makes more sense in-lore to use breachers to footslog anyway. They do have big ass shields. The problem here is availability. There were way more tacs in existence. The easiest fix here would be to give breachers the support squad rule outside Zone Mortalis. That would also be a sufficient enough drawback in case of "too OP" fears.

I mean boarding shields are basically mobile cover. Can't just give them a cover save because that is weird too. The core of this problem is the games d6 mechanics. To go beyond a 6 possible results you need rerolls or addition dice. It doesn't play well with added variables like armor and a shield. It only likes one or the other. But thats a problem for another time.

I would do the reroll failed armor/cover saves at -2 for all shields and make breachers support outside ZM.

pic was captcha, made me lul

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what's everybody working on this week. I reprimed my world eater inductii and I'm trying again with the FW recipe wash. looks way better than my shit attempt at following Duncan IMO.

>>50702664
Curse Frigattes! I do not know how to feel about them ressurecting BFG after I spent to much money for my chaos udes in a panic...

At least I had some lying around allready.

>Muh Bfg.

>>50702664
Nothing, Im still wondering what to do with the other 20 MkIII marines I have left, made two Heavy Bolter dudes, added 7 Plasma gunners to a Plasma gun squad and made a Master of Armor though he still needs a techmarine shoulderpad but its good.

I'll probably turn 10 into a 4th vet squad and the other 10 into...something..

>>50702753
Practice ofer Legumes schemes or build a HoR kill-team...or victory is vengeance guys...or your own Knight Errant.

>>50702624
Well, Siege Vanguard's version was meant to be more like a mantlet than a scutum, but I guess we've moved beyond that, so an extra penalty on movement & Sweeps would be balance enough.

>They should only be footslogging if they're above 10
Pretty much, but you can also bring a unit of 20 Breachers.
>The buffed Breachers become Support squads
I could agree to this. I guess the taxicals' only incentive is "they're cheap, spam them".

>>50702775
Also, Numbers!

Important for NL and SoH.

>>50702735
I'm more excited about the titanicus thing, but I'm just glad GW is resurrecting all these games I never got to play as a kid.

>>50702753
I've got 40 mk3, 10 tartaros, and 10 custodes left over from my two prospero boxes and I'm probably gonna start Iron Hands after I finish my World Eaters. Priming with Leadbelcher just makes painting so much fucking easier.

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>>50702237
>>50702775
Also, I agree with the "a RoW shouldn't be used to fix a unit" statement. Shouldn't Breacher rules promote testudos?

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>>50700281
Just started my first IH tacs (mk IV, I know, but it's all I've got right now)

How does the primary color look? Too silver? Too drab? Its based with Abaddon Black with a layer of Leadbelcher/Abaddon Black/Lahmian Medium, then various shades on top.

Any ideas for improvements?

>>50702815
Hmmm i am not that good at black, looks ok I guess?

Do you plan using accents?

>>50702810
What is the Stone Gauntlet RoW?

>>50702843
Yes, I do. I've just begun the painting, I'm mainly concerned with getting the right tone/feel for my dudes.

What would you recommend for accents?

>>50702664
Working on a RG contemptor for a painting contest at my LGS

>>50702815 looking gud, keep it going.

>>50702876
If you use gw colours, eshin grey is a good idea. Start with one medium acvent and then one hard one..Duncans vids might help :^)

>>50702876
White and bronze seem the most used by IH.

>>50702859
A legion exclusive RoW that should add on top of the vanilla Breacher rules rather than barely make them useable? Other legions should be able to use them too.

>>50702929
Also try a black ink on those cables.

>>50702664
Lascannon heavy support squads, finishing up my FW MkIII tactical squad, and then just trying to figure out what to do with the rest of my models.

>>50702937
Yeah.IH also have superior Breachers.

>>50702775
Thats what I mean, these aren't mantlets.

>>50702800
The only time that would come into play and really make a big difference are with AMs and Despoilers. Tacs and breachers are for shooting and standing.

>>50702810
I've been running a living errata for the past year, watching and reading batreps. Before the 2E of the red book we had a rule that let breachers reroll armor so long as they were b2b with at least two other marines with boarding shields. But the 2E dropped and they got a points decrease at 10-14, same cost at 15, and cost MORE at 16-20 for some stupid reason. AMs and Tacs got a points reduction all around. AMs really need it to be fair.

I think if breachers were support outside zone mort, rerolled failed armor and cover at -2, were bulky, and had -1 to sweep and run(which stacks with hardened armor) would make them good.

>>50702937

To play devil's advocate, less than half of the other legions didn't need to deploy breacher squads the way siege breaking legions did.

>Imperial Fists
>iron Warriors
>Death Guard
>Iron Hands
>Luna Wolves
>Alpha Legion

The rest were super sneaky, super fast, or super melee, super space police, or Word Bearer bitches.

>>50702929
Thanks! I've seen his Deathwatch painting stuff, I think you're right- it'll give the trim a really crisp look.

>>50702932
Where would you recommend that? I can see it on the buckles/belts most of the models have, perhaps even on some pauldrons? Gold is a fun color to work with, so I'm certain it'll find its way into somewhere good

>>50703008

*less than half of the other legions needed to deploy breacher squads that the other legions typically didn't

also left out Ultramarines, who copy other siege breakers

>>50703008
>Alpha Legion
>The rest were super sneaky

Clever clever, the hydra chooses to hide in plain sight

>>50702978
Not using bikes, termies and tac squads with bolters AND hand weapons to dogpile.

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>>50703008
>To play devil's advocate, less than half of the other legions didn't need to deploy breacher squads the way siege breaking legions did.
And then, bam! Ultramarine testudos.
To play the...oposite to the devil's advocate, some people would think certain legion entries aren't fluffy of X or Y legion.
I hereby call the fluff as my witness.
>Word Bearer bitches. Kek, I'll post about them in my next comment.

>>50703017
Kneepads, iconography, on weapons/wargear, that sorta thing. There's one GW studio army of IH with white bolters, looked really striking

>>50703050

It doesn't have to be 100% fluff accurate, but it has to be fluffy enough to float as its own cloud. Imperial Fists have typically been written as excellent defenders and fortification experts for 7 editions now, but their RoWs basically implies that they invented terminator assault rapesquads and STEEL REHN - RoWs which are specialized towards breaking entrenched positions.

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>>50703017
Use red.

>>50703113
Damn, that looks pretty good.

I might just use that for the support/Devs I'm making. Thanks

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>>50703019
>also left out Ultramarines, who copy other siege breakers
The Romans were Teh Shit at the siege. But yeah, Ultramarines probably stole that.
Still, "muh sword and shield"

>During the Roman Republic and early empire, sixty scorpions per legion was the standard, or one for every centuria. The scorpio had mainly two functions in a legion. In precision shooting, it was a weapon of marksmanship capable of cutting down any foe within a distance of 100 meters. During the siege of Avaricum in the war against the Gauls, Julius Caesar describes the terrifying precision of the scorpio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpio_(weapon)
http://classics.mit.edu/Caesar/gallic.html

>>50703177

Pre-Guilliman Ultramarines specialized in decapitation strikes and void warfare, so it can be generally assumed that they were already proficient in the art of the siege. Guilliman then made them good at everything except sneaky stuff (but then Ultramarines compensated by stealing STEEL REHN from the Imperial Fists post-Heresy).

>>50702664
do you pronounce that in-duck-tee or in-duck-tee-aye

>>50703230
I thought chapters specialised individually, like the Nemesis guys being good at purging.

>>50703250
I say in-duck-tee mainly because all "i"s I pronounce "ee"

What book is the Horror Cult for Night Lords in? I want to take a look at it, or maybe you guys can help me pick another RoW.

Basically, I want to run Night Raptors because normal assault Marines can't take a bunch of claws. Obviously, I don't want to go full claws, but at least 5, and a big squad of at least 10 with like an apothecary of sorts and Praetor. I'd like more, but they're expensive. I'd also like at least one terror squad with Volkite.

Now, the other problem is that I want to be able to use the squads to mirror a 40k CSM army for something different, which makes stuff like Drop Pods hard to buy because I'd only get to use them in 30k. On top of that, I'd have to have use a Terror Assault if I wanted DPs for a Terror Squad, in which case I'd need 3 expensive squads.

Dreadclaws would work because I could also use them in 40k, but they're not on FW anymore.

I'm feeling kind of overwhelmed and unsure of what to do. Any help would be great.

>>50703250
First one I'd say, as I had latin. Might be different for anglos, you sadly not allways speak like you write.

>>50703275

Everyone specializes in purging, even the "good guy Salamanders" despite using flamers everywhere.

>>50703289
You can build pods crom plasticard.

>>50703300
But nobody has his ass full of Destroyersad Phosphex, they even paint ther armour black.

>>50703282
>>50703297
ah ok, its spelled and inductee and pronounced how its spelt where I live, but in rome total war they seem to say ee-aye every time theres ii in a name

>>50703325

Ehh I am not very good at that. Like, it would be an embarrassment.

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>>50703345

SUP BITCHES

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>>50703230
I kind of don't believe you. Could you give me a sauce? I mean, they lost against the Osirians, which was a naval battle only won until Guilliman's arrival.

>>50703348
Languages can be hard on people, especially if you have a tradition of changing classical names.

>Ulysses instead of Odysseus.

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>>50703345
>But nobody has his ass full of Destroyersad Phosphex
Plebz they are. Nigga here even has Destroyer termies.

>>50703358
Suit yourself.

>>50703370
I thought they got identities on the chapter level, forming around remarkable campaigns.

>>50703370

That same codex is your sauce. It cites their preference for decapitation strikes until their leadership got decapitated that one time, and it cites the extermination of a void-based xeno race at the hands of Guilliman himself (thanks to the sacrifice of his best librarian at the time, ironically enough).

>>50703392
You know what I mean, everyone who is a normal non poison huffer legionaire.

>>50703414

*not codex, Forgeworld book you know what I mean

>>50703397

Still doesn't help me with a RoW, but thanks.

>>50703447
Sorry about that.

>>50703414
>and it cites the extermination of a void-based xeno race at the hands of Guilliman himself
Post-Primarch isn't what I'd call "early legion". But I'll keep reading, thanks.

>>50703289
>What book is the Horror Cult for Night Lords in?

Age of Darkness Army List, all new RoWs are in the generic army list book, Raptors are expensive but they pack a mean punch and are easily one of the best melee units.

Terror Squads can infiltrate or take a Dreadclaw as dedicated transport, as for the model I'd wait for it to come back in production and infiltrate them in the meantime.

>>50703465

Generally speaking, you can't be good at something you weren't good at in the first place. Corax basically goes at length on a few occasions about how you can't take a bunch of stealth specialists and make them siege breachers without a happy ending. Emperor's Children had issues with compliance campaigns and had to team up with other siege breaker legions at times. Night Lords generally sucked in conventional warfare, etc.

>>50703512
I thought the EC were often used as Equriries and diplomats, do you mean they disliked Gorilla warfare?

>>50703250
I actually pronounce it in-duck-tie because I'm retarded and don't feel like pronouncing it in-duck-tee-aye like a proper roman citizen.

>>50703512
>Night Lords sucked in warfare when the enemy would not run away screaming from their spoopy-ness

>>50703491

So the Red Book in the OP isn't up to date? Mine only had the Terror Assault.

So, what RoW then? Both DAC and Orbital Strike sounded cool, but required Assault Marines and/or pods. The latter negates the uniqueness of teleporting terminators.

Maybe Pride of the Legion? Make use of teleporting termie troops? I have 5 Cata and 5 Tartaros. Worth giving up the VP if/when they die?

>Texting my gf
>Get texts from rando number in german, but with local area code
>Takes me a while to remember the words, he is saying some cryptic shit
>Guy claims to have killed my late best friend, and now my late best friends husband
>Gives me a talk about how they lied to me so much, provides proof
>Kinda fucks with my head because I was really close to both of them

Well I am not getting any work done on my >>50702952 miniatures tonight.
Help me /hhg?

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>>50703512
>you can't take a bunch of stealth specialists and make them siege breachers
Pointing out the AL would feel like cheating.

>>50703547

EC (in lore at least) were consistently master tacticians, able executioners of any strategy, and excellent close combat masters. They turned Istvaan 3 into the Alamo out of a bunch of rubble, leftover bolters, and complete loyalty to the Emperor.

What they weren't good at was brute force actions, which was moreso a weakness of their manpower limitations than it was an innate weakness. Most of the Great Crusade consisted of brute force actions, so this limitation drove much of the EC bonkers.

>>50703572
>So the Red Book in the OP isn't up to date?

PDF one? No, download the epub version, thats the up to date one.

>So, what RoW then?

I dont know, what do you want? Run Terror Assault if you're not using Kharbydis pods and want Terror squads.

>>50703630

Dark Mechanicum saved AL on Paramar after they fucked up three times in one day. They're proficient enough at the siege to win one with favorable odds, but thats about it.

>>50703583
I'm speechless. Was it real or was he bluffing?
How did he die, if we may know.

>>50703630
Alpha legion aren't particularly good at the job.

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>>50700454
>childhood is when you idolize Autilion Skorr
>adulthood is when you realize Dynat makes more sense
>maturity is when you understand that the answer is Exodus

>>50703583

Post pics of your texts on /soc/

>>50703665
Best friend was a firefighter in German, he had a previous full thickness, full length burn on his backside from his shoulders down to his knees.
Had been put on a light duty day, woke from a nap up to an empty firehouse with his entire backside bleeding, quickly became delusional and eventually bled out.
He was texting me all the while, until the last.
"Mommy is calling me away now, I need to go. Goodbye Anon'

And supposedly my late best friends husband killed himself, suck starting the 1911 my friend left him.

I don't know if he was bluffing or not, just don't think I can deal with assembling miniatures /just right/ now

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>>50703547
While the EC could do campaigns, they didn't have the raw power of the Iron Warriors, Death Guard, or World Eaters to just utterly destroy a target. Against entrenched foes, the EC would have difficulty.

That's entirely besides the point that the EC were frequently used as equerries, diplomats, and even parade units, as their elegance, tact, and perfectionist nature made them the Emperor's favorite display pieces. That, and the fact that the Emperor had given them the sole right to bear the Aquila after an attempt was made on his life during the compliance ceremonies on Proxima. The 16th Cohort fought to the death to ensure that he could escape, and he has held the Emperor's Children in high regard since.


Speaking of Emperor's Children, my BaC set arrived yesterday, I just finished the eggnaught

>>50703583
>Guy claims to have killed my late best friend, and now my late best friends husband
>Gives me a talk about how they lied to me so much, provides proof
You should probably contact the police about it before they stop by to remove you as well.

I'd warn your gf too.

>>50702664
Beautiful What is the FW recipe? Got a link?

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>>50703659
>>50703666
Eh, they're better than what you'd expect infiltrators to be, mainly because they're different from the RG who are more focused to ambush rather than to the AL's sabotage.

What does hhg do to motivate themselves to model and paint?

>>50703799
She knows, and I have a CCW so I should be ok.

The new breacher come with power weapons, but the rules say nothing about them. Am I missing something?

>>50703819

AL are better than Infiltrator specialists (read: Night Lords and Raven Guard) because they actually bother to generalize their tactics. But that just makes them a jack of all trades - good planners but not as good as EC, good terminators but not as good as Imperial Fists, good defenders but not as good as Iron Warriors, good armored spearhead but not as good as Iron Hands, and generally worse than Ultramarines at everything except the sneaky.

And even then, thats not saying much good about the Alpha Legion. For example, the Blood Ravens specialized in STEEL REHN for hundreds of years but the entire 10 year civil war basically relied on excellent sneaky tactics. So being excellent sneaky for 10k years doesn't really mean much when most of it resulted in a bunch of nothing.

>>50703870
>and I have a CCW so I should be ok.
Is it a 1911? Is this going to turn into another /tg/ carries 1911's thread?

>>50703875
Yes, reading the UM rules. Only Ultramarines can give their breachers power swords.

>>50703890
>at everything except the sneaky
Ultramarines trained ogryn to out-sneak alpha legion operatives. Clearly they COULD sneak at least as well as the alpha legion, but choose not to because it'd be a waste of time.

>>50703891
Glock 19.
And I never saw that thread, what was it like?

>>50703926

They developed a big book of rules which allows other Space Marines to be as good as the sneaky, so clearly they have the AL completely read.

>>50703870
>I have a CCW so I should be ok.
I thought you had a free chainaxe, I'm sorry.
Shouldn't you give the number to the police?
>>50703736
I'm not understanding.
Your friend suddenly woke up in an empty firehouse (fire station?) and he was bleeding from his previously-healed burn scar?

>>50703899
I literally have tempest right next to me and I didn't see. Thanks.

>>50703954
The other two engines were on calls, he was left behind because he was on light duty that day.
He was on light duty because his back was acting up, and after sleeping in his turn out gear, it woke up most of the scar tissue.

>>50702815
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236305-the-sekhmet-hh-emperors-children-alpha-to-omega-151216/page-88#entry4500377

If you willing to spend the time I think this guys IH look pretty sweet. Tutorial is the link,

>>50703870
I started reading some novels to motivate my SoH painting. Otherwise I watch batreps or theory craft lists to hype playing them.

>>50703890
>good defenders but not as good as Iron Warriors
I never saw them defend anything. In fact, I barely even saw them. I think.
Remember the defense of their homeworld? Exactly, nobody knows what their homeworld even was. Like the WS, they lacked a center, and you cannot bring your full force to bear against something that has no center.
>>50703926
>Ultramarines trained ogryn to out-sneak alpha legion operatives
Sauce? Last time I heard about AL and Ogryns it was mentioned they were the only ones who had any hope of standing against their marines...so the legion send them confusing orders, got them in a crossfire and blew up the bridges.

The AL sneak not for the sake of sneaking, but for the sake of sabotage. And nobody knows well how good the Lerneans were because they didn't disclose the reports and they didn't leave any survivors.

There was a ZM some AL termies "lost", suffering about 70% casualties only for the outpost suddenly going dark and failing to track Horus' entire fleet towards Terra. All defending Cybernetica maniples were found deactivated.

>>50703994
Well that sounds like an accident, not some deliberate murder.
Right?

>>50703652

I've been looking for the epub, but I just scouted all the links and didn't see one. Where's the link?

I just want to be able to use what I have with as much crossover into CSM as I can

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>>50704041
>Sauce?
see pic. this should have been the RG RoW but nooooooo. We got a really shitty, I'm talking bad, Liberation Mission

>>50703890
Night Lords : Infiltrate to demoralize the enemy to reduce his effectiveness that way

Ravenguard : Infiltrare, strike and withdrawl before the enemy can bring his effectiveness to bear

Alpha Legion : Infiltrate to sabotage/undermine the enemy's strentgh, which cause panic and confusion when the all-out attack that follows happens

>>50704162

Raven Guard is obviously going to get a v2 update when it comes time for Corax to create his proto-Wulfen troops and his legion temporarily makes World Eaters shit their pants.

>>50704162
Honestly I'd be pretty okay with RG players using the Vigil Opertii RoW as-is. They're kinda on the same level as the ultramarines in working with the people.

>>50704220
You mean chaos spawn. And actually the AL did it for him remember :^)

>>50704220
They should update corax to cause blind with every hit. Before the blind nerf he was absolutely ded-killy.

I would love first gen and second gen raptors too. Actually I might have to make them...

>>50704266
My group is too fortunately. The only thing I'd change is to not require those two provences, or even disallow them to represent rag tag militia rather than elite ones.

>>50703944
It looked like a thread on /k/.

Lot's of pictures of guns and very off topic. I forget how CC's came up, but a significant number of posters carried 1911's.

>>50704288

>Corax ends up taking his mutated legion on a rampage behind Horus' lines and well into the Great Scouring

No legion more loyal than the Alpha Legion.

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>>50703702
>ultimate form is when fuck everyone

>>50704294

They should update Corax to not get assraped by the other Primarchs, on principle.

>>50704348
For the Emperor !

>>50704294
>The only thing I'd change is to not require those two provences, or even disallow them to represent rag tag militia rather than elite ones.
An option to ditch the allied FoC for a full FoC so long as you don't take any provenances?

That'd be interesting. Lets you take more than two infantry squads, at the least.

>>50704360
Agreed, that's Russ' terratory

>>50704214
Mostly agreed.
The NL do it to cause general panic, the RG do it to better enact a decapitation strike and the AL do it to fuck shit up (as in both materiel, people and tactics).

>>50704266
>They're kinda on the same level as the ultramarines in working with the people.

>>50704266
Last time I checked the Ravens were seen as distant marines with a preference on silence that bordered on insult, even when talked to, and used mortal regiments as unwitting bait. It was until Shrike's ascention to Chapter Master that he vowed the RG would take a new direction and openly work with their allies.
Also, Corax is noted to disregard the Crusade high command and pursue his own vendettas, like in the compliance of Carinae, which caused the entire legion to abandon their IM allies and costed several thousand mortal lives.

Still, the way those 30 moritats killed the whole station and flung them into the sun was awesome.

>>50704460

Shrike's views basically echo that of Corax's. As the End Times nears, all of the founding loyalist chapters are basically returning to their roots or facing their inner demons.

Also, the loss of hundreds of thousands of lives was fucking nothing in that era. They were lives well spent if it meant neutralizing a threat which would have jeopardized millions of lives or a star system that was vital to the Imperium.

>>50704460
>and used mortal regiments as unwitting bait
Nah, corax is all about that freedom for the people stuff.

Liberation force, yo. It's just that the liberation force is shit.

>>50704498
>They were lives well spent if it meant neutralizing a threat which would have jeopardized millions of lives or a star system that was vital to the Imperium.
Corax had the entire legion to abandon the compliance to look for a single dude hiding. Not just "Corax himself focused on finding this dude", but he removed the entire legion from a compliance they were aceing. They spent about 7 months until they realized the dude was hiding a few thousand miles above the sun.

Meanwhile, the rest of the system managed to regroup and became way harder for the now-unsupported militia.

>>50704526
>Nah, corax is all about that freedom for the people stuff.
That was the reason why they pursued that dude.
The RG and Corax are heroes, but they're ALWAYS heroes even when the situation calls for a general. Not to mention he wasn't above using nukes against civilians.

>>50704553

Corax was always a big picture guy. This is the guy who offed the vast majority of his Terran troops and sent off the rest into the void. There was no place for their kind in the Imperium they were building.

>>50704553
>Not to mention he wasn't above using nukes against civilians.
There are no civilians! only heroic revolutionaries and the vile oppressors they seek to liberate themselves from.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with deploying your nuclear space arsenal against those cowards who abet the enemy through their inaction.

>>50704553

>Corax nukes civilians
>Hero

>Curze nukes thieves and murderers
>villain

>>50704718
>There are no civilians! only heroic revolutionaries and the vile oppressors they seek to liberate themselves from.
How did Corax get along with Angron and Mortarion?

Did they have their own little "Kill the Masters" club?

>>50704754

Kurze nuked his homeworld because his feelings were hurt and he couldn't bear the thought of a spanking by Big E.

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>>50704360
Pre blind nerf he could go toe to toe with the best of them save for Horus.
Now you just hit and run or shadow lord away and shoot them to death.

>>50704294
>I would love first gen and second gen raptors too. Actually I might have to make them...
Pic related. A very rough first draft.

>>50704762
I don't think they had any interaction, but I imagine mort and corax would have some common ground between each other. They're both loner revolutionary dudes with rather extreme personalities.

>implying anyone liked angron

>>50704777

He nuked them because they were unruly shits.

>>50704804
>implying anyone liked angron
Lorgar did.

And Angron really wishes he didn't.

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>>50704714
>This is the guy who offed the vast majority of his Terran troops. There was no place for their kind in the Imperium they were building.
I think the Praetorian of Terra would beg to differ.
>>50704718
>heroic revolutionaries
Like the ex-convicts the Raven associated with, even the mass-murderer that got inducted and goes by the name Kaedes Nex?
Don't forget Corax' childhood was basically vid related, only less blue and with less "rival knocks gestation capsule away and lands in a manor", that was Guilliman and Angron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egeeuQQEnKQ
>>50704754
History is written by the victors.

>>50704762
>How did Corax get along with Angron and Mortarion?
I think they hated each other.
All three of them.

looking for help from any Luna Wolves players out there on how to go about painting them, namely the actual paints, not the color scheme (white armor, black trim)

>>50704826
>ex-convicts
>mass-murderer
Lies and slander. El Primarche's noble compatriots are of the highest moral fiber possible.

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>>50704871

Is that why you ran away from our fight?

>>50704920
I'm sure everyone would love to hear your first hand account, but it seems like you've met with an unfortunate accident and aren't available for comment.

Truly a shame!

>>50704987
did dorn not get ganked in the 1st black crusade by fucking mooks?

At least the nighthaunter wanted to peace out.

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Are boxnoughts worth anything anymore?

>>50704987
>an unfortunate accident
No accident, he just came down with a back case of making like a tree.

t. Dr. Jonson AMD

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I've been having fun with the template. The Raptors aren't final but Deliverers are and Shadow Wardens probably are.

I also plan to make Captain Branne, Sharrokyn, and Navar Hef.

Branne is going to unlock Raptors as troops without the restriction and otherwise be a pretty generic Captain with MotL.

Sharrokyn is going to be a super choppy sneaky git. The CC version of Kaedes Nex. He'll only be able to join Mor Deythan and Furies. Special rule if he's alone he can charge turn 1 probably. Like Nex can. Dual special gladius. Probably AP3 with 5+ rending or something.

Navar Hef is going to unlock mutated Raptors as non support troops that can score. He'll also be a support HQ.

>>50705724
>Branne is going to unlock First Gen Raptors as troops**
whoops

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>>50704987
>There's no way my luck is that bad...
> Y o u ' r e . e x p e r i e n c i n g . a . g r a v . a c c i d e n t
>Like hell I am!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1UxZJ9owXY

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Would anyone object to this conversion for a Dread claw? It seems too easy to be true.

>>50705880
Don't eat that cute little world!

>>50705880
>Paying more that the cost of a plastic drop pod for a resin one
Honestly, those drop pods are too expensive. They look cool and all. But fuuuuuck they cost too much money for a damned drop pod.

>>50705919

That picture is converted from a plastic drop pod, anon.

http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/2010/10/diy-cheap-chaos-dreadclaws-part-1.html?m=1

>>50705950
Yes, I'm aware. My post inferred that buying and converting the plastic was the way to go.

>>50705958
Ah, sorry.

Well, they're not available on FW anymore anyway, but yea. Holy fuck the prices listed were absurd.

Assuming the conversion is good, I will be getting some plastic pods for 40% off this weekend. Maybe, I'll try my hand at plasticard and put some top spikes on it, but I don't expect much.

Also, aren't those pods supposed to fly horizontally?

>>50706003
>Well, they're not available on FW anymore anyway, but yea
Probably a repackage

>Also, aren't those pods supposed to fly horizontally?
When zooming. They also hover in place

>>50706125

Should I try and get them on the side then? Like, how are the people inside oriented?

I am currently planning on how to build my praetor and from what I understand I should replace the CCW with a paragon blade, but what about the bolt pistol?
Should I be cheap and keep it, spend 15pts on a plasma gun, or go extra spendy for a thunderhammer?

>>50706144
You could. Greenstuff a flying base mount like the one on the anvillus and be able to use a flying base when its zooming. Then take it off the base when hovering. GOing that extra step would earn favor for using that conversion i suspect. I personally am all for it anyway.

>>50706144
Pretty sure they're mounted on the interior walls in an orientation like a regular pod. It wouldnt be able to hover on its side.

I'm interested in starting 30k with one of the legions - what's a good starting point for an army, what kind of points values do you tend to get small games at? Having looked at FW, the prices really are quite something, so realistically should I get myself the BaC task force with the legion of my choice?

>>50706995
Zone Mortalis up to 1k

Strategic Raids 1.5k-2k

Standard 2.5k-3k

BaC task force is a good starting point. I imagine they'll be doing BoP ones soon enough.

>>50707287
>Zone Mortalis up to 1k
Zone mortalis is perfectly fine to 1.5k, especially in 30k.

You could probably play 2k zone mortalis in 30k and still have pretty quick games thanks to how inflated many point costs can get.

>>50706147
If just in artificer armor, keep it cheap and don't do thunderhammer. You will not survive challenges.

If in terminator armor then options open for what you want to send him agsinst

>>50706995

BaC/BoP for your troops and terminators, FW for the other goodies.

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What 3rd party bits would you guys recommend to for assault squads? I can't stand the horrible static models that forgeworld currently have.

>>50707662
Maxmini do good, heresy-looking packs, any legs that arent doing the GW squat, exotic weaponry

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>>50707662
>>50707701
Hmmm, doing this triggered my armour autismo, but the mkiii legs work really well for a "just landed" look

>>50704353
>That pic

What's a Weapons Platoon Commander?
That feels like a weird rank.
Are marines that bad? Cousin in the French navy told me it was basically a bunch of foreigners trying to become American with little to no education.

>>50708160
From a cursory googling, they're a support unit for mainline infantry companies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_company

Some marines are great, many are retarded dumbasses.

>>50708160
In several modern militaries, one platoon in a company will be the weapons platoon. They operate the mortars or the unit's organic artillery, and often have headquarters defence details. Unless rotated for specific reasons, their role normally makes them sit at the back and gives them more opportunities to get into trouble.

so whats the difference between the forgeworld Cataphractii and the gw Cataphractii apart from the material obviously, kinda weird they both sell the same thing

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This is probably my favorite /hhg/ made image.

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>>50708321
Updated version, for (You)

>>50701843
>>50701898
That's why we need post Keys of Hel Iron Hands. Straddling the line between mechanicum and dark mechanicum. Some proper necromancy rather than mechanical inventions.

>>50708352
Why do you do the (you) thing anyway?

>>50708384
I think it's funny

>>50708321
>>50708352
What's the background, is that the cylinder ship they attack with the sisters at the start of Eisenstein?

>>50708453
Yes. But most of the text is from HH1

>>50708375
Straddling ? Keys of Hel IH are well and truely in the dark mechanicum territory. The only reason they can remotely be considered loyalists is that their only remaining motivation is revenge on those who gang banged them on Istvann V. But there is almost no hesitation with killing even fellow IH if they get in the way of killing those who wronged them.

>>50708503
IH tacticals with revenant alchemy, there - done.

>>50708503
That's true, I was mostly thinking of techno-necromancy. The mechanicum is using cyborgs and existing tech with just a hint of undead (revenant tech-thralls), the dark mecha is full-blown "improvements" or "innovation" in odious ways.

But neither is doing proper machine zombies, techno plagues, etc.

>>50708531
Just realized this, but the Imperium considers turning somebody into a servitor whilst they are alive morally correct, while making servitors from dead people seems to be heresy.

>>50705724
Delvierers are basically alpha legion leanerans. Alpha legion dosent like it when other people play with their toys.

>>50708588
Not exactly strange. People are okay with life support, but grave robbing ain't kosher.

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>>50708621
>Delvierers are basically alpha legion leanerans
Right? They're pretty much the same here.
>>50708588
Failures are turned into servitors, but who says dead guy #4832 hasn't earned his well-deserved rest? "Glory to the first man to die", remember?
Or that's what I think they think. Me, I'm completely fine with..."resource recycling". Yes my main class was a Necromancer: to me a corpse is either a bomb or a potential minion

>When asked how he wished to be buried, he left instructions to be thrown outside the city wall so wild animals could feast on his body. When asked if he minded this, he said, "Not at all, as long as you provide me with a stick to chase the creatures away!" When asked how he could use the stick since he would lack awareness, he replied "If I lack awareness, then why should I care what happens to me when I am dead?"[35] At the end, Diogenes made fun of people's excessive concern with the "proper" treatment of the dead.
- DIOgenes, aka "The man who gave no fucks"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_of_Sinope

>>50708692
Well specially people from hive worlds are very strict about wanting to end up in the recycling plants to be turned into sustanence. Mechanicum do the same with the biological leftovers from dead servants.

It's just that performing invasive surgery, amputation and lobotomie on live, aware and unwilling 'patients' seems a little harsh to say the least.

>>50708765
>seems a little harsh
Welcome to the imperium, baby. If it doesn't hurt, it doesn't count.

Also you basically described the space marine implantation process.

>>50708765
>unwilling 'patients'
You do realize servitorification is alternate for death penalty right?

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>>50701399
>>50701412

>>50708621
>Delvierers are basically alpha legion leanerans

>>50708692
>>Delvierers are basically alpha legion leanerans
>Right? They're pretty much the same here.

They're about the same as those UM termis are basically Tyrants, and Deathshroud are basically Phoenix Guard. Different legions had similar units. They are basically the same army with tweaks after all.

>>50709058
>same boosted weapon skill
>same starting wargear
>very similar options
they are really very similar m88

>>50708588
That is because the former still has a soul, where the latter does not.

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>>50709058
>Deathshroud are basically Phoenix Guard that are slower, tougher, don't support nearby troops, are a better bodyguard unit and actually have a ranged weapon, not to mention they handle ongoing combat better
Like twins.

Alright guys, I have a serious question for you all. How common is autism and other disorders in the hobby? Everytime I see a badly mark7 marine I can't help but think the person posting has issues.

>>50709223
I can't remember the last time I saw a badly mark7 marine in one of these threads. I guess we've had a few badly mark7s in the past, but since BaC/BoP it's generally been goodly mark4s or nicely mark3s.

>>50709223
It can be difficult in this hobby on occasion to tell light autism from stupidness or entrenched stubborness, and of course, online in particular, deliberate ironic shitposting or ignorant retarded shitposting.
Most of the time it's not an issue, though there certainly are a number of people who are both/either autistic or of a lower intelligence level then even this simplistic material requires to fully discuss it, which again wouldn't be an issue if we also didn't have an entitled, argumentative community.

Arguing with people who're actually a bit dumb and/or have autism issues about stuff that doesn't matter to life in the slightest is the number one cause of murder/suicide among young men aged 16 to 24 after all.

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>>50709412
There's no real autism here, right? Just stubbornly dumb people. We use that word like other boards use "cuck", right?.
I mean, autists are people who avoid eye contact, physical contact and pretty much utterly ignore other people, as well as entire contexts
>tfw I could have been autist as a kid and I wouldn't remember.

What happened to the Nemean Reaver after the heresy?

>>50709412
>internet arguments are why so many young men kill themselves.
Anon, that's just stupid.

>>50708965
>tfw Sangy and his kin were the only ones that could hold back the hordes

>>50705637
£28

>>50705637
Little known fact, you can put a S6 AP3 flamer on a boxnaught.

Has anyone used the Macrocarid Explorator at all? I am considering getting one and some Myrmidon Destructors to act as anti - deathstar/scalpels. 3 Grav-myrmidons and the Irrad Engines sponsons on the Macrocarid should do nicely at chewing through elite 3+ units and terminators, plus the Graviton Imploder in the roof, combined with Machine Spirit, can kill the Artificer sarge before the AP3 wipes the rest.

Thing is, kitted out it costs about as much as a Spartan, and isn't an assault transport. Is it worth the points, because I thought the model looks badass.

>>50709460
Autism has many sub-disorders, that can often be hard to diagnose as compared to simple facets of human development. It can be hard to tell someone with simple light autism (poor ability to grasp humour or friendly lightheartednes, takes things seriously and at face value) from someone who is just kind of boringly stupid.
See
>>50709550
for an example.

Lower grade disorders manifest as poor social skills. Middle grade are getting into what you mention, as well as an inability to let go of certain facets of logic, order or methodologies. Higher grade is when you go into rainman or almost-sociopath territory.

Which takes us back to why it can be hard to tell who has genuine autism in wargaming, as the hobby itself attracts and promotes a set of behaviours that also are traits of light autism.
If you've ever argued with someone over a bit of fluff or a rules interpretation and they will not let it go and appear to get quite upset, plus they were already a cold fish, and then you realise who gives a fuck, or let's get on with it, you win, or whatever, and they carry a grudge or want to keep arguing or go and greentext a mostly made up story about out online, congratulations, they were autism.

>The Lion and the Wolf is a story about autism

>>50704804

>be Lion
>kill dude that uphelds Emperor's orders
>np, First Legion Bro

>be Angron
>prowling through uncomplaint worlds
>everyone objects

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>>50710230
Any idea who the SoH, DG and NL could be here?

>>50709101
Deliverers canonically had cataphractii.

And were veterans of Terra(WS5). An axe among the Xetric tribes they came from was a symbol of power and respect.

Their sole job was to murder things via shock assaults back during the crusade. Volkite chargers are good for murdering lots of xenos and humans back in the crusadin' days.

Lernaeans have a pretty similar job. Except they're supposed to be flashy about it. Maybe AL jacked the idea like Girlyman jacked Tyrants. Or MAYBE being a fellow crusading legion made them end up with similar equipment.

>>50710416
No one said the Ravens didn't have Cataphractii, or that the enemy targeted the men with the axes first because their killing power was feared and respected, we're just saying your Deliverer concept looks a lot like the Lerneans, who weren't flashy at all, they simply had access to lots of uncommon weapons like volkite and conversion beamers.
Not that anyone cares, because the Deathwing will have access to plasma cannons, mark my words.
I'd tell you to give your termies Furious Charge, but they already have it.
Did they really have volkite base? They learned how to termie from the SoHs, they got their termie armour from them, and yet they don't have volkite base.
And as for Tyrants, we also disagree to the whole Tyrant-Fulmentarii thing, disregarding the UMs have a pict of them in Visions simply because people barely ever drew the IWs.
Btw someone did a baneable offense and 4chinz thinks it was me.